Episode 145: Valudation

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Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0
for September 8 2023, episode

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145 value datian Hello everybody
once again time for the board

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meeting of podcasting 2.0 The
only boardroom that has zero

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stock certificates and only one
heart out today everything going

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on with podcasting yeah you know
that RSS stuff podcasting,

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everything happening a podcast
index.org podcast index dot top,

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the namespace and of course all
the happenings in podcasts index

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dot social I'm Adam curry here
in the heart of the Texas Hill

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Country and in Alabama the man
whose middle initials are T L V

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Sanbona. My friend on the other
end ladies and gentlemen the one

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and only Mr. Jones

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Dave Jones: this week the road
caster is fully operational

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Adam Curry: it is we did a quick
little

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Dave Jones: master.

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Adam Curry: We did a little a
little tweaking and it sounds

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good. Yeah, I mean, it really
sounds good. Do you have a noise

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gate on this thing? You have a
noise gate setup

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Dave Jones: that can do it. I
got no This thing's been out of

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the box for a maximum of 15
minutes. Oh, so we

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Adam Curry: can still freeze up
is what you're saying? Yeah.

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Dave Jones: I'm gonna get I'm
gonna get the boot halfway

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through

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Adam Curry: the show. So this is
the this is the they sent you a

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new one, I presume?

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Dave Jones: Yes, they did. They
called the B b&h photo people

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and they

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Adam Curry: they went Oh, yeah,
okay, we know what that is.

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Dave Jones: I said I submitted a
ticket with Ro And they're like,

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Ah, don't don't don't bother
with that. Don't just send you a

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new one.

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Adam Curry: doesn't talk to
anybody.

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Dave Jones: They they did
respond to my email about late

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last night. Oh, yeah, that was
about a week later.

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Adam Curry: Okay, was better No,
I mean, I've reached out to many

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times nothing just the Oh
really? No Yeah, no yeah, no

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nothing

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Dave Jones: nothing no, you're
just the pod father and me well,

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what would

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Adam Curry: you are the pod
sage? You'd expect somebody to

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do to respond somehow but I
guess I

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Dave Jones: guess oddly enough
they didn't seem to realize that

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Adam Curry: that did you
shocking. Did you send out your

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tweet and everything to do all
that stuff?

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Dave Jones: I'm literally doing
it well. You felt you felt it?

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Yeah.

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Adam Curry: Yes indeed. So a lot
of stuff going on while you're

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doing that. We are letting live
Hello chat room. We're not lit

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what we're doing what what is
someone saying this? This is Oh

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I'm in the wrong chat room. Here
we go. There we go. People like

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you're not go away. Are we late?
Yeah, why are you here? Yeah,

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what are you doing? This has no
agenda go away. Okay. All right.

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So are we good here? Yes, we're
good. You weren't it says we're

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not lit. What do you mean I'm
not lit? I am lit I pinged

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everything and said good to go.
Let me check again. Then let me

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see. Says live Yes, I did that.
I saved that I published the

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fee. I'll just do it again. Just
just to prove the point. Why

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not?

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Dave Jones: You aren't. Quote
cotton gin. You are not lit.

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Adam Curry: Yeah. It's not a
helpful error message. Cotton

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Gin. I don't know what that
means. Yes, he's mean like I'm

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like me personally, I'm not lit.
No, I'm not lit. I stopped doing

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drugs in November last year. Sam
Sethi

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Dave Jones: said I was gonna
watch rugby otherwise.

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Adam Curry: Is he in the chat
room? Is he the chat? Yeah,

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Dave Jones: no, he's on he's on
the mastodon. Oh, good to know

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that we preempt the rugby

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Adam Curry: now I do not forget
to lit I didn't forget to lead I

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did it. I lit it up. I lit it up
by fire that thing up loud.

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Anyway, so there's a lot going
on in the world, but before we

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sit talk about anything do you
have your list from last week? I

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had a heart out and and then
there's all the stuff that you

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want to talk about. We wound up
talking about funny enough about

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the road caster and a lot about
the music stuff. You had some

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other important things on the
list.

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Dave Jones: Let me look at us.

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Adam Curry: They were so
important. Gotta look at the

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list. Yeah.

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Dave Jones: Well, you know, I
still set I still I still sound

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like a robot. But I don't
understand. So I'll figure that

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out.

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Adam Curry: You don't sound like
a robot here. That's what's kind

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of weird.

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Dave Jones: It's actually kind
of bothersome because it's

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really it's, it's it's
distracting me. I don't know.

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I'll figure it out. I'm gonna
get over it because

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Adam Curry: well, no, if it's
distracting you we can we can

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fix that. I'm good. But because
cuz you did hit the robot button

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earlier.

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Dave Jones: Is that stuck with
me that this that makes me sound

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like a woman? Yeah.

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Adam Curry: Is Is that what
you're hearing in your

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headphones?

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Dave Jones: No, no, no. I mean,
the buck like I said, this

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thing's been out of the box for
15 minutes and I couldn't even

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get it hooked up to my computer
through USB but I did manage to

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find the sound effects so you
can see what's important to me.

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Adam Curry: Well, I'm just make
sure all other faders are down.

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How about that?

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Dave Jones: All other faders are
down. Yeah.

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Adam Curry: So if you look at
your screen, there's nothing

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else should be open except for
the chat bubble and your and mic

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one.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, I've got Mike
one. Okay. Yeah. Mike one's all

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the way up at the at the zero.
It's like, at the neutral

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position.

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Adam Curry: Yeah. No, but it
sounds feels to me like

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something else is open that
you're unaware of.

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Dave Jones: This is probably
true. It seeing is how

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everything is unaware of.

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Adam Curry: Well, do you see any
other white lines on your

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faders? Or is is everything down
at the bottom?

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Dave Jones: Well, okay, so
there's over on the right hand

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side, there's these three. On
the screen. I'm at the screen.

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On the screen. There's the you
know, there's like USB one, chat

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and USB two.

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Adam Curry: Right. So chat
should be open. Everything else

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should be closed.

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Dave Jones: Well, USB one has a
red, like mute symbol, like,

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slash? Speaker. That's good.
Yeah, it's muted. Yeah, chat has

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nothing. It's good. Like,
there's no icons. That's good.

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That's good. and USB two has a
slash through this to this

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speaker. Okay, that's good.
Yeah, okay. All right. Well,

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then it must be your ears. Just
me. I'm just crazy.

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Adam Curry: Alright, who knows
what's going

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Dave Jones: on? Powering
forward, but,

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Adam Curry: but if it's hard for
you to talk, then I want to fix

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it.

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Dave Jones: It's not hard for me
to talk. I'm good with that. You

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know, maybe I'm too loud in my
own headphones. Okay. Because

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the I prefer to for me to be lit
for my volume to myself to be a

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little bit lower and you to be
jacked. Okay. I need you loud

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and me soft.

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Adam Curry: That's what she
said. Okay, so, so bring your

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mic down. And

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Dave Jones: if I bring my mic
down, that's gonna miss you

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Adam Curry: know, I'll now raise
it up here. It's no problem. Go

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ahead.

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Dave Jones: So my mic to me now.
It's still it's still doing it.

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That's that didn't have an
effect.

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Adam Curry: But you didn't do
anything? Did you lower your

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mic? I didn't see anything. Yes,
I did. Okay, so it's lower and

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it didn't get it didn't get less
loud in your headphones.

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Dave Jones: It did. But I still
sound like I'm gonna cough

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again.

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Adam Curry: That may just be the
sound.

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Dave Jones: Do I normally sound
like I'm in a

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Adam Curry: coffee? Oh, you
don't sound like you're in a

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coffee camp? I think that's
because the sound is crazy. No,

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I don't I have no idea. But I'll
figure this out. I'll get it

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figured as long as it's not a
delay as long as it's just a

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coffee can because you don't
sound like you're gonna be a

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Dave Jones: delay. IQ. That's a
good point. It could be a delay.

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It could be a slight delay.
That's the issue. That was

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Adam Curry: my thinking is like
this. You're hearing something

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coming back. See, this is
riveting. Either way. Everyone's

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excited about we could have done
this before. I didn't know it

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was

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Dave Jones: technically could
not have though, because I only

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unboxed it, you know, 10 minutes
before the show. I'm serious. I

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can power through this.

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Adam Curry: Okay. All right. All
right. Well, we will have to get

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it fixed. Okay, to two big
pieces of news. I'll start us

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off with the news of the day.
The news of the day, the news of

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the day, clubhouse.

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Dave Jones: That's, there's news
about the club. Yeah.

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Adam Curry: I was like I just
always like to when when I was

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right about something, just like
to stomp it in people's face.

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Oh, did

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Dave Jones: they shut down? Do
they

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Adam Curry: know they're
pivoting from live audio to

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group messaging? That's stupid.
And I just want to remind

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everybody how jacked and Judy
you all were about these things?

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It's the future of podcasting.
Oh, yeah. Scragg is fantastic.

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Yes. This is that this is that.
This is where all podcasts will

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be done.

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Dave Jones: clubhouse they,
they're basically what anchor

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was. The anchor did this to they
they have a buddy who's in a

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startup. It's, I'm sorry to
hear. Well, he wasn't a startup,

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but they they pretty much shut
down.

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Adam Curry: I'm not laughing
about them. But yeah, I'm

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laughing about it. That's how it
goes. And just no more money.

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can't feed the beast. Yep. And
he

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Dave Jones: was like, he was
like, we just we've only got

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we're supposed to have like
25,000 users at this point.

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We've only got 270. And I was
like, Well, you know, it sounds

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like you're just you just need
to switch from this thing to

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this, like this other thing.
He's like, Well, as I didn't

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know, he didn't understand the
pivot. He didn't understand how

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to pivot. So he's talking to
these other guys who were in

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start these startup developers
and they were like, oh, yeah,

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we've we've pivoted like 15
times. He's like our original

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product is not like that was
that was like 16 pivots ago,

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where now he knows like we
started as a live streaming

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online. And now we're like a,
you know, healthcare app.

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Adam Curry: The pivot that he
should have made it should you

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call it one of these 50
companies that will do fake

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signups for you. Just before the
board meeting this is this is

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what Silicon Valley is rife
with. It's like, Hey, man, our

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metric with our VC is it's
either a number of users, number

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of x's, you know, whatever your
KPIs are, and then you just go

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out and buy it, and then you go
raise more money.

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Dave Jones: Yeah, that's what
that's that's the, that's not a

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whole lot different from the
music streaming model. We're

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Adam Curry: gonna get to that in
a moment. The second piece of

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news is, and again, I mean, I
could see this coming down

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Broadway podcast one, finally.
And they didn't really have an

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IPO. They spun out of Live was
it live something one, whatever

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that's called

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Dave Jones: Live one, live

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Adam Curry: one. So they didn't
raise money. Because normally a

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public offering is where you,
you sell all the stock and you

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raise money. So this was all
insiders, as far as I can tell.

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And, you know, they rang and I
was, look, I'm excited for

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anybody to go public, I've done
it is a it's a very tough path.

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Because, you know, you project
your numbers every quarter, and

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then you have to hit the numbers
and you're scrambling to hit the

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numbers. And by the time you hit
the numbers, like we got to

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start working on the next
quarter. And it's a net it's

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like, just like it's like a
YouTube algo only with real

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money and lots of angry people
who own your stock. And it's

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just as bad if you over project
so if people think oh, it's

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great, we beat our numbers
that's actually not a good

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thing. Because they say well,
how come you couldn't predict

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it? You have to be able to be
idiots Yeah, if it's you know,

225
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you got to have a good reason
for the

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Dave Jones: surprise. Or it must
have been a fluke. Exactly and

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Adam Curry: so I saw them on
this all these people are

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ringing the NASDAQ Bell this
morning. That's cute and and

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then the stock was just not
hitting the tape of like,

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where's it where's it that's
always a bad sign. One because

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that means there's some issue
with the pricing so the they

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were priced at $8 to come out at
$8 and not hitting the tape

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means they haven't started
trading that which means the

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underwriter whoever is the
market maker for the stock

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doesn't have the buyers to
support the $8

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Dave Jones: Oh, oh yeah. If you
can't get an initial trade then

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you have no price Yeah,

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Adam Curry: well so the price so
it was I've been I've been

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through a pricing is very it's
very harrowing. You know, it's

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like it because you have all
kinds of insiders who have

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agreements like hey, man, you
gotta cut this got to commodity

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dollars. Yeah, but you got to
hold don't flip it. Everyone

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lies everyone lies in this game.
And it's horrible. And these

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guys had a rough ride this
morning. They finally came out

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around see what time they came
out? They came out at 1118 1115

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is when they hit the tape at $8
plunged immediately to under

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five and a half then when they
were when as low as $4.10 Yeah,

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they had four trading halts last
time I looked which means you

249
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know there's it's so volatile
that they that you know there's

250
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this is the this is the free
market everybody Oh crap. People

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are losing their shirts. It's
our guys hold it stop the

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training. Yes, it's so free.
Yeah. Free. Yeah. Complete open

253
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market for free market

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Dave Jones: was this pod sees?
Yes. Yeah. Pod see?

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Adam Curry: Yeah.

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Dave Jones: Is it $4.14?

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Adam Curry: Yeah, for 49 right
now. So that's so that's a fair

258
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price, then that would be the
price but a lot of people got

259
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screwed. Especially if they knew
because I think that they were

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trying to lure a lot of
podcasters in like, hey, you

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know, we'll give you the stock
and who knows what the insider

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price was? I guess we could
figure it out. But for people

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who were thinking they got it at
eight bucks. You know, that's

264
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that's quite a hurtful day. And
it just doesn't look at this

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will take many quarters to get
this backup over the IPO price.

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Dave Jones: Well, they're still
10 times more than BuzzFeed. So

267
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they're all good.

268
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Adam Curry: Plus, are they
completely bankrupt? Are they

269
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completely gone?

270
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Dave Jones: There's stuck is it
36 cents? Just interesting to be

271
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on the side of my screen? Yeah,
yeah.

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Adam Curry: Yeah, that's too
bad. Well, they should do what

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what apparently what apparently
everybody is doing is scam Hey,

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I mean, holy crap, you and I had
a, we've had some conversations

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with some artists and people in
the music business and who have

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kind of flocking to us. Which is
is beautiful to see and and the

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excitement in value for value
music being played on podcast,

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there's a there's certainly
excitement from podcasters who

279
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are like, how do I do it? How do
I do it? I don't understand

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00:15:22,950 --> 00:15:27,270
split kids so hard. What? Which
is all true.

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Dave Jones: All true. 100% True,
yes.

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Adam Curry: 100%. And I'm just
getting email after email on

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hey, how do I get considered how
can I how can you? How will you

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play my song? And so I said,
Well, here are the four places

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you can get your music up. And,
and along the way, holy crap,

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00:15:48,989 --> 00:15:52,979
and we gotten a look into what's
happening, how it works. It

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00:15:52,979 --> 00:15:57,119
let's put it this way. Value for
value music on podcast, there is

288
00:15:57,119 --> 00:16:02,399
no competition. It is a complete
blue sky open field. There's no

289
00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:06,329
Greenfield, Greenfield blue sky,
there is nothing stopping

290
00:16:06,329 --> 00:16:10,529
anybody from being successful.
Because Spotify and the

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streaming platforms is a
humongous scam. And, I mean, the

292
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takeaway is, if you want to even
be considered to hit the

293
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algorithm, you've got to have
10,000, what they call streams,

294
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which I guess is listens, people
listening. And who knows if that

295
00:16:32,789 --> 00:16:36,929
means for one second for a whole
song or whatever. But with

296
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Spotify, I'm just using Spotify
as the example of which Spotify

297
00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:43,799
will disqualify any at random
what they say, oh, no, that's

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not a valid stream. Because of
course, the minute you're an

299
00:16:47,249 --> 00:16:50,039
artist, you get all kinds of
emails from all these companies,

300
00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:52,019
the same ones that have been
doing this for Silicon Valley

301
00:16:52,019 --> 00:16:56,129
companies for years, hey, you
know, we can we can get your

302
00:16:56,129 --> 00:16:59,909
5000 streams and get you and get
you 50 streams, we'll get you on

303
00:16:59,909 --> 00:17:02,939
a playlist, it's important to be
on the playlist, the top

304
00:17:02,939 --> 00:17:08,789
playlists will get you blogs,
and everything costs money. And

305
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:12,389
then you still have to release a
new track every five weeks,

306
00:17:12,389 --> 00:17:15,029
five, every five weeks, you have
to release new music, otherwise,

307
00:17:15,029 --> 00:17:19,169
the algo drops you This is
horrible.

308
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,840
Dave Jones: So we already know
that we already know that the

309
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:31,500
streaming companies like
Spotify, did they down? They

310
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:34,920
don't want you streaming the big
stuff. Because they have that

311
00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:38,550
they have to pay for that.
Right? So they want they what

312
00:17:38,550 --> 00:17:42,960
they want is for playlists that
we saw were like I think cash is

313
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,810
probably been about a year ago
that we watched a video where

314
00:17:45,810 --> 00:17:49,950
this guy kind of went through
it. And he said, if you start a

315
00:17:49,950 --> 00:17:58,500
playlist, let's just say fame,
like a jet hot jazz. And then

316
00:17:59,130 --> 00:18:02,610
the first four or five songs
will be songs that you didn't

317
00:18:02,610 --> 00:18:04,500
you know, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah,
I know that I know, these bands.

318
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,850
By the time it gets to like Song
10 it you don't know any of

319
00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:10,470
these artists anymore? They're,

320
00:18:10,919 --> 00:18:13,199
Adam Curry: they're just,
they're all people who have paid

321
00:18:13,199 --> 00:18:15,839
to be on that playlist. Right?
And that

322
00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:19,920
Dave Jones: that's so that's the
streaming company not they don't

323
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:25,290
need to. This is my opinion.
They don't need to. They don't

324
00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:28,710
have to pay out for that.
Correct. So they they want.

325
00:18:29,550 --> 00:18:32,520
They're getting paid. Yeah. So
you don't like they don't have

326
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,250
to pay the royalty they're
getting that like the money's

327
00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:39,150
coming back to them. It's they
don't they're not they're giving

328
00:18:39,150 --> 00:18:41,670
out their let's say, what would
you what would you call that

329
00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:45,750
they're giving preference to the
lower tier artists that are

330
00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:48,810
having to pay to get in the
game. So they don't have to make

331
00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:52,470
a payout. Instead, they're
getting paid. Yeah, it's such a

332
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:53,820
scam. If you

333
00:18:53,820 --> 00:18:56,550
Adam Curry: look at really
what's going on here, Spotify, I

334
00:18:56,550 --> 00:19:04,410
think they do about $3 billion a
quarter in, in in revenue. And

335
00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:10,830
something like $800 million is
left over in gross gross profit.

336
00:19:10,830 --> 00:19:15,120
So this you know that the people
who own Spotify who own the

337
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:20,310
shares and who have all the back
end deals are the labels. So you

338
00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:23,460
know, if you're if you're signed
to a label, which by the way you

339
00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:28,260
label will not even consider you
unless you have a million social

340
00:19:28,260 --> 00:19:34,320
network followers. Because they
need that to trigger all the

341
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,500
algos. I mean, it's all so
insidious, that actually the

342
00:19:37,500 --> 00:19:41,520
labels they control the money
flow, they control everything.

343
00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:44,160
Oh, it's just time to suck out
800 million Yeah, a time to suck

344
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,880
out a billion dollars. It's this
month and they just spin up the

345
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,640
algos and then it's all their
stuff. And then you know,

346
00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:53,970
they're artists, they have the
publishing they, they own all of

347
00:19:53,970 --> 00:19:57,840
it. And that's why people are
left with nothing. Right? The

348
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,140
whole thing is basically a
business huge scam that people

349
00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:05,550
are very tired of. And now I
understand the enthusiasm.

350
00:20:06,420 --> 00:20:10,590
Because, you know, here, it can
imagine if Shawn had 10,000

351
00:20:10,590 --> 00:20:17,490
streams of a value for value
song. It mean, even even at

352
00:20:17,490 --> 00:20:20,220
today's low sat level just
streaming out even booster

353
00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:21,780
grams, you'd be doing pretty
good.

354
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:26,550
Dave Jones: You know, I think
that this has got to do more

355
00:20:26,550 --> 00:20:30,900
with that I want to say this, I
mean, people coming, getting

356
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:34,860
excited about value about value
for value and about podcasts and

357
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:41,040
people to music. I think it's
got more to do with it. It's got

358
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,870
less to do with money and more
with appreciation. Yes. And just

359
00:20:45,870 --> 00:20:49,950
the straightforward nature of
it. Yeah, like, there's no, the

360
00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:55,140
lack of games. Here. You just
you just like, Okay, you, you,

361
00:20:55,170 --> 00:21:00,450
you put it you put your music
up. And then it goes out and

362
00:21:00,450 --> 00:21:04,200
people either listen, or they
don't know, there's nothing.

363
00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:08,550
There's no brokers in here
trying to broker traffic. And

364
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:14,370
it's just, it's a pure peer to
peer like, like creator to

365
00:21:14,370 --> 00:21:18,360
listener connection. So like, if
you're for us, like we're on

366
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,320
the, you know, like on the top
100 chart, what we've been

367
00:21:22,350 --> 00:21:28,380
building here is that I was
noticing you can you could lie

368
00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:33,390
in boost in, like send a whole
bunch of booths. But you can't

369
00:21:33,390 --> 00:21:38,220
lie about the amount. Right?
Sats are what they are. Our our

370
00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:42,900
lightning node gets the gets a
lightning transaction. So there

371
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:48,270
was some there was there was
there were Satoshis there. And

372
00:21:48,270 --> 00:21:52,950
you can't pretend that there
were more or less what it is, I

373
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:57,480
mean, like the transactions is
just what it is. So there's no

374
00:21:57,690 --> 00:22:02,040
gamesmanship, because there's no
way if you run your own, like in

375
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,450
the most pure sense of this, if
you run your own node, and then

376
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:11,130
you publish your own feed with
your own music, you either get

377
00:22:11,130 --> 00:22:16,380
paid or you don't write, there's
nobody telling you, oh, well, we

378
00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:19,860
paid you off of this amount of
streams. But really now we

379
00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:22,950
figured out that you that you
had 1000 Less streams. So we're

380
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:25,380
going to we're going to take a
chunk of your money away.

381
00:22:26,940 --> 00:22:27,900
There's no brokerage.

382
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:33,000
Adam Curry: But besides that,
we've you don't have to, to get

383
00:22:33,030 --> 00:22:37,080
airplay on today's radio
stations. Forget about it. First

384
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,220
of all, all these stations are
owned by heart. You know, so you

385
00:22:41,220 --> 00:22:44,130
have to go through the iHeart
system if you want to be added.

386
00:22:44,190 --> 00:22:46,710
You know, it's like oh, every
Tuesday there's a that's when

387
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:49,860
all the labels and they're
independent record promoters if

388
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:52,380
there's still any left that
calling all the stations Hey,

389
00:22:52,380 --> 00:22:54,690
man, you got to add this record,
it's really important is great.

390
00:22:54,690 --> 00:22:58,800
It's popping in and people are
talking about it in Idaho. And

391
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,670
you know, the artist is going on
tour and there's stuff that

392
00:23:02,670 --> 00:23:05,640
stopped bubbling under added
added added added. And there's

393
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,950
only room for a couple of ads.
Now of the 100,000 new songs

394
00:23:10,950 --> 00:23:16,050
that come out every week. In
reality that people add to

395
00:23:16,050 --> 00:23:18,900
Spotify or whatever or per month
I mean, it's huge amount of

396
00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:23,100
tracks. There's only so much
that that you can get added to a

397
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:27,030
limited number of radio stations
within your limited format.

398
00:23:27,330 --> 00:23:31,170
Imagine you can't just be
putting your hip hop record on

399
00:23:31,170 --> 00:23:36,060
the country station now so it's
all very segmented it's all in

400
00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:39,540
it's all they're all in it.
They're all in the it's much

401
00:23:39,540 --> 00:23:42,540
worse than I imagined it was I
had no idea how bad this gotten.

402
00:23:42,750 --> 00:23:48,570
And I think that probably some
Spotify podcast business maybe

403
00:23:48,570 --> 00:23:54,000
working the same way but with
fake streams and gosh knows what

404
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:54,510
else.

405
00:23:54,990 --> 00:23:57,870
Dave Jones: He made a comment
about the being so attached to

406
00:23:57,870 --> 00:24:00,570
social media like yet to have,
you know, a million Tik Tok

407
00:24:00,570 --> 00:24:04,590
followers or something like
that. That was johnsburg like

408
00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:10,230
yesterday in the podcast indexed
a social I posted a clip from

409
00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:15,810
Mark ask Mark Asquith podcast
where he's lamenting, you know,

410
00:24:16,230 --> 00:24:21,000
I don't want to get into these
lamenting how people are so

411
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,030
belligerent about a podcast.

412
00:24:24,150 --> 00:24:26,070
Adam Curry: Oh, he was clearly
talking about now. He's clearly

413
00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:27,030
talking about me.

414
00:24:28,110 --> 00:24:30,000
Dave Jones: And no, I don't
think I listened to the whole

415
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,610
episode. Oh, did you
specifically

416
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,300
Adam Curry: Oh, we did because I
made a comment. I boosted the

417
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,540
new media show. The reason why I
thought it was about me is

418
00:24:39,540 --> 00:24:44,850
because he said snark and I, and
I had listened to the I'll get

419
00:24:44,850 --> 00:24:47,220
into it for a second. Anyway, I
listened to the new music, the

420
00:24:47,220 --> 00:24:50,970
new media show as I do all the
time. And Todd wasn't there. It

421
00:24:50,970 --> 00:24:58,110
was Rob and he had some someone
on I forget. She was from some

422
00:24:58,140 --> 00:25:05,610
podcast company. And and Rob was
doing his shield dance. He's

423
00:25:05,610 --> 00:25:09,450
like, Well, you know, it's
generational, that you have to

424
00:25:09,450 --> 00:25:13,740
have RSS people consider YouTube
a podcast. And I boosted like,

425
00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:21,390
who are you? That was cool, are
you? And let's just separate.

426
00:25:21,420 --> 00:25:24,030
Let's just separate it out. I
don't I don't care what people

427
00:25:24,030 --> 00:25:27,360
call a podcast. I'll go on Joe
Rogan. And I will say, Yep,

428
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,330
you're a podcast even though
he's not. But if you're in the

429
00:25:30,330 --> 00:25:35,190
business, the whole point is to
protect what we're doing. And if

430
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:38,190
you're teaching people Oh, yeah,
YouTube's a podcast. Oh, yeah.

431
00:25:38,190 --> 00:25:41,460
Spotify is a great place to put
your music. No, you won't be

432
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:44,460
running around in a hamster
wheel there. You're doing people

433
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:48,840
a disservice. That's my point.
And I got a little I forgive

434
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,450
Rob, but I get a little irked
when he says, it's generational.

435
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,370
IE, you're an old fuck. That's
what that's what that means.

436
00:25:56,460 --> 00:25:57,600
Generational.

437
00:25:57,929 --> 00:26:00,239
Dave Jones: This is the
prediction. Urban Dictionary.

438
00:26:00,509 --> 00:26:01,859
Generational means your your

439
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:05,100
Adam Curry: give my language?

440
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:11,880
Dave Jones: Yes. Well. Yeah. So
he's, so mark specifically

441
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,330
excluded you he said, about two
thirds of the way through, he

442
00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:19,560
said, No, I'm not. I'm not
talking about, you know, the

443
00:26:19,650 --> 00:26:23,940
podcasting. tuple No, people
gave in. Okay, all right. All

444
00:26:23,940 --> 00:26:26,610
right, you're doing stuff.
They're actually doing stuff.

445
00:26:26,850 --> 00:26:30,180
You know, all the time. They're
working to make this big. But

446
00:26:30,180 --> 00:26:31,200
you know, he specifically

447
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:34,050
Adam Curry: wasn't Donald, okay,
because I started listening to

448
00:26:34,050 --> 00:26:36,960
it. And I'm like, I just, I just
gonna get mad. So I turn it off.

449
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:43,050
Dave Jones: Yeah, but, but I
think your point is my point as

450
00:26:43,050 --> 00:26:49,800
well, which is, and I think Mark
was, was confusing, a whole lot

451
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:51,600
of different topics all
together.

452
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:54,240
Adam Curry: It's also easy to do
that when you when your company

453
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,820
has been bought, and you're
getting a salary. I just point

454
00:26:56,820 --> 00:27:00,270
that out. It's a lot easier to
talk and to criticize.

455
00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:05,610
Dave Jones: Well, the heat. So
you know, one of the, one of the

456
00:27:05,610 --> 00:27:08,850
points he can make him was if he
told if we want this to be an

457
00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:11,970
industry if we want this
industry to get talking. It

458
00:27:11,970 --> 00:27:15,630
sounded like he's talking to
industry people. Yeah. And if

459
00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:21,690
that's the case, then I'm sort
of I'm sort of of the opinion

460
00:27:21,690 --> 00:27:23,520
that there actually is no
podcast industry.

461
00:27:24,180 --> 00:27:26,910
Adam Curry: Where do you there's
no industry? That's the podcast

462
00:27:26,910 --> 00:27:30,540
industry industrial complex.
Yes. But that, but there's no

463
00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:31,620
industry. I agree.

464
00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:38,880
Dave Jones: And that is all. So
what, what has what happens is,

465
00:27:39,630 --> 00:27:43,620
people begin to allow the
definition of what a podcast is

466
00:27:44,220 --> 00:27:48,000
to be changed in order to follow
the digital advertising your

467
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,640
money, the money. Exactly. If,
if the if the people in the

468
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,300
podcast industrial complex, who
are responsible for doing these

469
00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,630
reports, and these surveys in
and there's a whole ton of them,

470
00:28:00,630 --> 00:28:04,860
there's, you know, Edison of
Signal Hill inside Magellan. I

471
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:06,360
mean, there's just there's these

472
00:28:07,380 --> 00:28:10,980
Adam Curry: people who say it's
a $2.3 billion business, which I

473
00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:12,660
can't find the money.

474
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,460
Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. It's,
there's so many people who are

475
00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:23,190
sort of tracking, podcasts,
podcast, podcasting, as if it's

476
00:28:23,190 --> 00:28:27,120
an industry as if it's an
industry that is solely

477
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:31,050
dependent upon digital
advertising revenue. If that's

478
00:28:31,050 --> 00:28:35,910
your mindset, if that's your
model, that if you're one of

479
00:28:35,910 --> 00:28:38,430
these companies, and that is
your model that the podcast that

480
00:28:38,430 --> 00:28:44,940
podcasting consists of media
distribution, that is supported

481
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:48,150
monetarily by digital
advertising revenue, if that's

482
00:28:48,150 --> 00:28:53,820
your definition of podcasting.
It makes perfect sense to be

483
00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:57,900
aggravated when people say that
YouTube is not a podcast. Yeah.

484
00:28:57,930 --> 00:29:01,170
Because actually, you need that
you need YouTube to be a

485
00:29:01,170 --> 00:29:05,610
podcast, because you're red,
because you're, you've defined

486
00:29:05,610 --> 00:29:12,540
it that way. Yeah, but so but
the danger here and this is the

487
00:29:12,540 --> 00:29:16,050
danger here is what has happened
to the music industry. Exactly.

488
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,840
The music industry is now
attached to social media, like

489
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,880
tick tock in a way it has become
it has evolved to have a

490
00:29:27,390 --> 00:29:28,560
umbilical cord

491
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,440
Adam Curry: it's a plantation.
Yes.

492
00:29:31,890 --> 00:29:36,240
Dave Jones: to So to social
media, specifically tick tock in

493
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,540
such a way that the music
industry literally cannot

494
00:29:39,540 --> 00:29:41,730
survive without social media.
Now,

495
00:29:42,030 --> 00:29:46,440
Adam Curry: the guys who used to
give the early Stax record, even

496
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,260
probably early mode, I would
want to have a motor but the

497
00:29:49,290 --> 00:29:54,720
early early music guys who had
the distribution, which was

498
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,230
trucks, and who had the
recording facilities who would

499
00:29:58,230 --> 00:30:02,640
give their artists a catalog
Back, they would have loved what

500
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,600
is what this has become. It is
so sophisticated. And I'll bet

501
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,350
you the music, the music, the
labels, they probably own the

502
00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:15,150
scam companies that by you that
by YouTube streams and playlist

503
00:30:15,150 --> 00:30:19,950
positions have wouldn't put it
past them at all. Now or their

504
00:30:19,980 --> 00:30:23,550
or their cousin or their brother
or someone else owns it's so

505
00:30:23,610 --> 00:30:30,360
it's so it's so sad. Because I
mean even if you if you get some

506
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,820
so forget the fact that you get
paid on streams, you have to

507
00:30:32,820 --> 00:30:36,600
have 10,000 A month every month.
The fact that his

508
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,750
Dave Jones: stream was removed
happens to be the same number as

509
00:30:39,750 --> 00:30:42,540
what YouTube required for
monetization. This 10,000

510
00:30:42,540 --> 00:30:43,200
Number. Isn't that

511
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,790
Adam Curry: interesting? I think
it's also downloads on podcast

512
00:30:47,790 --> 00:30:50,250
if I'm not mistaken. Yep. I
think it's the same

513
00:30:50,969 --> 00:30:54,119
Dave Jones: 1000s Yeah, just
arbitrary number that follows

514
00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:56,639
everybody around the digital
advertising about that.

515
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,870
Adam Curry: Whereas, I mean, I
saw it with a relatively new

516
00:31:00,870 --> 00:31:04,620
artist, Jeff Smith. Jeff's not a
new artist. But Jeff has been

517
00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:08,430
around Jeff is in Nashville.
Jeff knows everything Jeff has

518
00:31:08,430 --> 00:31:11,100
seen it all. And he's a
performing musician. He does

519
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:16,020
crazy pianos. Sometimes he tours
with the band. He drives to I

520
00:31:16,020 --> 00:31:22,170
think Cleveland once every two
weeks to do like four days of

521
00:31:22,170 --> 00:31:25,410
crazy dueling pianos there. I
mean, he's a working musician.

522
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:30,360
Now, when Jeff sees SATs coming
in, he knows he's not going to

523
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,870
feed his family off what he just
got. But he's super excited.

524
00:31:33,870 --> 00:31:37,350
He's like, people are listening,
I can see this, this coming in

525
00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:42,390
in real time. For people who are
hearing the pew pew in the

526
00:31:42,390 --> 00:31:45,600
background, that's that's heli
pad. That's people who are

527
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,960
listening and sending Satoshis
in real time, that is actually

528
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:55,650
booster grams. So that that,
yeah, that its value. Dacian.

529
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,610
There you go. There's my term,
value Dacian I gotta write that

530
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,510
you just do that. validation,
I'm writing it down, like

531
00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:07,890
infotainment, only different
value datian It makes you feel

532
00:32:07,890 --> 00:32:10,470
good. And then when you see hey,
wait a minute, there's, you know

533
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:14,700
if, and this, this is the
beauty. Because it'd been many,

534
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:19,500
many, many projects where people
put their music up and solicit

535
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:22,770
payments, I think the Patreon
you can still do that on

536
00:32:22,770 --> 00:32:25,500
Patreon. There's been
crowdfunding for albums, all of

537
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:32,310
that works, but at scale to be
able to create something this is

538
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:36,450
where podcasting comes in. This
is this is where it happens. We

539
00:32:36,510 --> 00:32:41,550
there is no competition. Radio
guys can't do this. They will

540
00:32:41,550 --> 00:32:45,690
not understand it. Radio can't
pivot they they're stuck in

541
00:32:45,690 --> 00:32:52,200
their ways. The traditional
music business it's does not

542
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,730
compute to them that people can
listen to a song enjoy music and

543
00:32:56,730 --> 00:33:00,690
not pay for it only only send
value if they want to that it's

544
00:33:00,690 --> 00:33:03,120
just not it's not it doesn't
it's not in their DNA. It never

545
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:09,840
will be. It never will be. But
when you have Ainsley Costello,

546
00:33:10,290 --> 00:33:14,190
who, you know shows up on
podcasts and is talking about

547
00:33:14,190 --> 00:33:17,640
her music and they play her
music and the wallet switches

548
00:33:17,670 --> 00:33:22,500
and then she's although I don't
think that happened on Putnams

549
00:33:22,500 --> 00:33:25,860
weekly review, but only played a
little bit. But you know, that's

550
00:33:25,890 --> 00:33:31,080
Now you're talking. Something
that that really works.

551
00:33:32,850 --> 00:33:36,810
Dave Jones: Well, if you so you
sent me a video the other day

552
00:33:37,860 --> 00:33:38,700
trying to remember

553
00:33:38,730 --> 00:33:41,670
Adam Curry: that was at the rap
guy. Yeah, yeah. rap guy. Yeah.

554
00:33:41,820 --> 00:33:44,280
Dave Jones: And so he made a
comment in there. I don't know

555
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,600
if you remember this, where he
he talked about this phenomenon

556
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:53,610
of rappers that get millions of
streams, but they can't sell

557
00:33:53,610 --> 00:33:53,790
out.

558
00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:56,640
Adam Curry: You know, what, if
no one shows up at their shows?

559
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:56,940
Yeah.

560
00:33:57,719 --> 00:33:59,849
Dave Jones: You literally have
to cancel the shows because they

561
00:33:59,849 --> 00:34:03,599
didn't sell any tickets.
Exactly. That's a scam. We we

562
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:08,729
already see this in podcasting
to the like, you might call it

563
00:34:08,729 --> 00:34:13,079
like paper popularity or their
sequel, their sequel, famous,

564
00:34:13,259 --> 00:34:15,149
you know, they're just famous in
a database somewhere. They're

565
00:34:15,149 --> 00:34:18,209
not they're not actually. So
they don't actually have like

566
00:34:18,209 --> 00:34:21,449
this. They don't yeah, they
don't actually have real ears

567
00:34:21,449 --> 00:34:26,399
that they care about lists don't
have a real audience, right,

568
00:34:26,429 --> 00:34:29,879
that will follow them. And
that's what happens if an

569
00:34:29,879 --> 00:34:34,319
industry gives up. Its
independence. If the if the

570
00:34:34,319 --> 00:34:38,669
podcasting, quote unquote,
industry, gives up its

571
00:34:38,669 --> 00:34:42,599
independence and lets some and
just follows whatever the

572
00:34:42,749 --> 00:34:47,399
current definition of digital
advertising is, if that happens,

573
00:34:47,669 --> 00:34:51,569
it's going to give up its
future. It's gonna give up it's

574
00:34:51,689 --> 00:34:55,709
a humongous chunk of revenue,
and any illusion of control that

575
00:34:55,709 --> 00:34:58,259
it ever had over its own
destiny,

576
00:34:58,290 --> 00:35:00,120
Adam Curry: and they'll be
slaves and will be slaves. As

577
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:01,410
slaves,

578
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,780
Dave Jones: you're just gonna
You were just going to plug

579
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:08,430
yourself in to the digital
advertising ecosystem in

580
00:35:08,430 --> 00:35:11,940
whichever way that wind blows,
that's going to drag you right

581
00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:14,370
along with it. And you're going
to have no more control over it.

582
00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:15,030
None.

583
00:35:15,180 --> 00:35:17,040
Adam Curry: But the but the
beautiful thing is and this is

584
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:23,160
where we can end this argument
is I don't care because RSS RSS

585
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:33,810
will exist. RSS is is. You know,
it's like what is I'm gonna say,

586
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,680
bear don't give a crap. Honey
Badger honey badger, honey.

587
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:42,780
Yeah. Honey Badger. That's what
RSS is. And I always love Well,

588
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,190
you know, the industry is so
young. It's 20 years old. We're

589
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:51,540
talking about it's not young.
That's code for we're not making

590
00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:54,240
money yet. No one's making
money. Everyone's losing money.

591
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:54,930
Stop.

592
00:35:55,290 --> 00:35:57,420
Dave Jones: Stop already,
television had already had his

593
00:35:57,420 --> 00:36:01,770
own mob in his mind, you know,
the mafia was already sold out

594
00:36:01,770 --> 00:36:03,060
to us long term. Yeah,

595
00:36:03,090 --> 00:36:06,150
Adam Curry: yeah. So we're on
the right track. And I'm very

596
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:12,000
excited. And, and I would love
to see the tools coming online,

597
00:36:12,030 --> 00:36:16,260
I saw a semi angry email from
Todd, which I always love when

598
00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:19,650
he gets off, because that means
he's doing something like this.

599
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,950
So hard. Yeah, this has died on
and we know this. Not to be

600
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:25,890
separate, right? Let's make it
happen. That means Todd is

601
00:36:25,890 --> 00:36:30,150
working very hard on trying to
get the value time splits

602
00:36:30,150 --> 00:36:34,200
working into blueberry or
something installed. Right,

603
00:36:34,230 --> 00:36:39,030
right before he shifts. But just
so we can make make clear what

604
00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:42,570
needs to happen. And I'm so
delighted that what at what

605
00:36:42,570 --> 00:36:47,370
seems to be working is people
are feeding into podcasting

606
00:36:47,370 --> 00:36:51,210
decks. That's what the indexes
for the index is supposed to be

607
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:54,960
the neutral place where you can
put put all the feeds in. And of

608
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,690
course, you can download the
database and have your own copy

609
00:36:57,690 --> 00:37:00,210
and do whatever you want to do
set up as a separate one next to

610
00:37:00,210 --> 00:37:05,070
it if you want, it's all fine.
So if I'm just gonna say

611
00:37:05,070 --> 00:37:10,320
blueberry just make it easy. If
someone played a song in their

612
00:37:10,350 --> 00:37:13,020
in their podcast, so you don't
have to be doing a show, like

613
00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:15,510
boost to Graham ball, let's just
say your chat and say, Hey,

614
00:37:15,510 --> 00:37:17,820
let's play it. Let's play Jeff
Smith for a second, you know,

615
00:37:17,820 --> 00:37:21,210
like we do on podcasting 2.0,
then all you have to do in the

616
00:37:21,210 --> 00:37:25,890
post production is in your
little interface there. Go and

617
00:37:25,890 --> 00:37:30,720
say, Okay, we played this song,
Jeff Smith, and it'll search the

618
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:35,820
podcast index. And with the API
and music medium equals music

619
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:39,150
pops up, you add that and you
just put the start time, and

620
00:37:39,150 --> 00:37:41,700
then everything else is done,
then you're done, then you don't

621
00:37:41,700 --> 00:37:44,370
have to change anything else. Of
course, under the hood, that's

622
00:37:44,370 --> 00:37:47,160
where the value time split has
to be put into feed. But it's

623
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,320
not super hard. That's what
split kit basically does. That's

624
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,630
it. There's no step three. I
know I make it sound really

625
00:37:57,630 --> 00:38:00,840
easy. But But that's, that's
what has to be done. And then

626
00:38:00,870 --> 00:38:04,860
and then people will do that.
And we're going to create a I

627
00:38:04,860 --> 00:38:10,320
mean, now is the best time to
become a podcaster. And a best

628
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:15,270
time to get your music, podcast
value for value enabled, whether

629
00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:20,580
it's on wavelength or music side
project or dystopia, or RSS

630
00:38:20,580 --> 00:38:24,990
blue.com. Wherever you are in
your sovereign feeds.com You

631
00:38:24,990 --> 00:38:27,570
know, all of this stuff, you can
do so many different ways to do

632
00:38:27,570 --> 00:38:32,400
it. And, yeah, is it complicated
right now? Yeah. But that's

633
00:38:32,430 --> 00:38:34,290
that's what people are, are
simplifying.

634
00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:37,680
Dave Jones: We'll meet music is
just, that's just step one. I

635
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:44,220
mean, audio books are next.
Podcast hosting companies. I

636
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:46,620
boosted into new media show the
other day, and I don't think

637
00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:48,210
Todd read any booths on the
show.

638
00:38:49,710 --> 00:38:50,670
Adam Curry: He only read mine

639
00:38:52,830 --> 00:38:55,860
Dave Jones: during the show on
with him and Rob

640
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,200
Adam Curry: Yeah, that's the
beginning. Yeah, that's that's

641
00:38:58,530 --> 00:39:02,850
like, oh, Adam snarky. Okay.
Generational old man.

642
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,370
Dave Jones: Well, the, you know,
what I'd written in was that

643
00:39:08,370 --> 00:39:13,920
podcast hosting companies. They
had they hold in their hand, the

644
00:39:14,580 --> 00:39:21,390
RSS is a district edits core.
RSS is a content distribution

645
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:27,420
mechanism. That's all it is. It
is a content delivery method.

646
00:39:27,420 --> 00:39:33,930
Correct. And it exists right now
with a pipeline from podcast

647
00:39:33,930 --> 00:39:38,370
hosting companies, even if you
run it yourself. Podcast hosting

648
00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:42,990
companies down to millions of
what you would call radio

649
00:39:42,990 --> 00:39:47,370
receivers. In Adam curry
parlance. Yes. The system is

650
00:39:47,490 --> 00:39:53,220
already there. It is fully baked
with one tweak of the medium

651
00:39:53,220 --> 00:39:57,360
tag. Podcast hosting companies
have the ability to have in

652
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,410
their hands the ability to blow
up malt Four industries. Yep.

653
00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:05,579
Adam Curry: What? It's not
immediately let me just say it's

654
00:40:05,579 --> 00:40:10,529
not even blowing up an industry.
It's a whole total zig zag.

655
00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:14,879
You're not even in there. You're
not even in their in their wake.

656
00:40:14,879 --> 00:40:17,909
It's not important. You're not
competing with them. You're on a

657
00:40:17,909 --> 00:40:21,809
whole different level. It's
that's why I say it's blue sky

658
00:40:21,809 --> 00:40:24,869
green fields is all open. No
one's doing this. Nobody.

659
00:40:25,829 --> 00:40:29,039
Nobody's doing it's so it's so
obvious to me.

660
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,710
Dave Jones: It's not a blow up.
It's a circumvent Yeah, that's

661
00:40:31,710 --> 00:40:32,640
right. Yeah, it's

662
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,650
Adam Curry: totally oh, we're
just gonna stand over here with

663
00:40:34,650 --> 00:40:37,500
it. We're over here putting our
tents up with our little lean

664
00:40:37,500 --> 00:40:40,230
tos and our shanties. Yeah, we
continue

665
00:40:40,230 --> 00:40:43,170
Dave Jones: deciding our opting
out of this. Yes, yes,

666
00:40:43,439 --> 00:40:46,139
Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And
we've proven that we've proven

667
00:40:46,139 --> 00:40:49,049
that it can work. And you know,
and within the next few years,

668
00:40:49,049 --> 00:40:55,139
we'll see podcasters, sustaining
on value for values. Boosts and

669
00:40:55,139 --> 00:40:57,869
booster grams and streaming, and
we'll definitely see it with

670
00:40:57,869 --> 00:40:59,729
artists. Definitely.

671
00:41:01,230 --> 00:41:07,140
Dave Jones: Did you? Did you
see, by the way, Spurlock's

672
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:07,950
chart of

673
00:41:08,670 --> 00:41:10,920
Adam Curry: option Yeah, that
was beautiful. Tell everybody

674
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,230
about it, there was there was a
proud little moment for us.

675
00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:18,060
Dave Jones: Is that that was
great. Like, let me see if I can

676
00:41:18,060 --> 00:41:20,100
find that post. Because he,

677
00:41:20,609 --> 00:41:24,989
Adam Curry: he basically he did.
He did a chart of declared and

678
00:41:25,499 --> 00:41:29,189
declared namespaces and then
namespaces that are actually

679
00:41:29,189 --> 00:41:30,509
used in feeds.

680
00:41:31,350 --> 00:41:38,280
Dave Jones: Yeah. Meaning in the
usage means, like, are they? Did

681
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,770
they just declared in their
head? Or are they actually using

682
00:41:40,770 --> 00:41:47,190
tags? Right, right. And so you
have the items namespace is sort

683
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:52,320
of the benchmark is what is that
that is the 100%. So everything,

684
00:41:52,590 --> 00:41:57,660
every podcast RSS feed,
currently in his body of

685
00:41:57,870 --> 00:42:02,580
research feeds, is using the
iTunes namespace, every feed has

686
00:42:02,580 --> 00:42:03,180
it and what

687
00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:05,610
Adam Curry: that what that means
is that the RSS feed just for

688
00:42:05,610 --> 00:42:08,220
people who are listening in and
don't know what the heck we're

689
00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:12,390
talking about, that means the
RSS feed is signaling, hey,

690
00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:16,440
there's special functionality in
here in this RSS feed that is

691
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,700
inherent to iTunes. And because
it's iTunes and podcasting, it

692
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:25,200
really blew up with with iTunes
and the iPod. Pretty much

693
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,680
everybody uses the you know, all
these tags since it was

694
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:29,850
compatible with Apple.

695
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,620
Dave Jones: And if you break it
down, that obviously iTunes is

696
00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:38,700
going to be is going to be the
number one there. It's not

697
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:42,360
that's not an not a surprise at
that. If you break it down a

698
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:47,250
little bit further, if you say,
Adam, the Adam namespace is

699
00:42:47,250 --> 00:42:51,480
pretty much declared by default
in most content in most CMS is

700
00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:59,100
because you get it's, it has
been that way for a long time,

701
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:02,700
because you get certain features
with it's, you're what you're

702
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:07,590
doing is you're overlaying the
atom ability to do links and

703
00:43:07,590 --> 00:43:12,330
stuff on to RSS. It's just that
got adopted years and years ago.

704
00:43:12,330 --> 00:43:15,540
You still you see that in all of
RSS that's not specific to

705
00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:18,240
podcasting in any way. No, that
was does does it? Yeah.

706
00:43:18,270 --> 00:43:21,330
Adam Curry: Adam was actually a
group, which I think was

707
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:26,100
Microsoft related. I'm thinking,
who who looked at RSS and wait,

708
00:43:26,130 --> 00:43:28,740
no, that's not right. We need to
make it complicated.

709
00:43:29,370 --> 00:43:31,020
Dave Jones: I thought it was
Google. It might have been it

710
00:43:31,050 --> 00:43:31,410
might have been

711
00:43:31,410 --> 00:43:33,270
Adam Curry: Google might have
been Google. Yeah. But well, we

712
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:36,210
have to make it more complicated
and all these weird features.

713
00:43:36,210 --> 00:43:40,500
And so they competed with RSS,
and I would say RSS, arguably

714
00:43:40,500 --> 00:43:41,040
one

715
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,060
Dave Jones: in that. It's very
much the same. So the top, we'll

716
00:43:45,060 --> 00:43:51,840
see 123456. So the top six are
iTunes, Adam, the Content

717
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,610
namespace, the Dublin Core
namespace anchor in the podcast

718
00:43:56,610 --> 00:44:03,600
namespace. So declare, declared
use over 25% of podcast feeds

719
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,870
are now declaring the podcast
namespace Wow. To me, that's

720
00:44:06,870 --> 00:44:07,440
giant.

721
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,670
Adam Curry: Within a couple of
years from zero, yes, yes. Yeah.

722
00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:15,420
Dave Jones: And then Adam is in
there, by default, the same

723
00:44:15,450 --> 00:44:21,180
content, the Content namespace.
The it's declared a lot, but

724
00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:25,650
it's actually not used, right.
As much as it used to be because

725
00:44:25,860 --> 00:44:29,340
iTunes used to Apple used to
recommend that for the content,

726
00:44:29,340 --> 00:44:32,430
it just really only for one
purpose is for to get the

727
00:44:32,430 --> 00:44:36,240
content encoded tag. Right. And
that was For show notes. Right.

728
00:44:36,270 --> 00:44:39,330
So that was that's an old
recommendation that is just

729
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:44,220
continues to exist in a lot of
CMS is Dublin Core, very similar

730
00:44:44,220 --> 00:44:48,330
to Adam. It's been around for
many, many, many years. It's a

731
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:53,190
standard RSS namespace. It's
not, it doesn't have much to do

732
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:58,440
with podcasting. Yes. So the
first others so next to iTunes,

733
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,710
the first namespace you get to
that really has anything

734
00:45:01,710 --> 00:45:06,510
specific to do with podcasting
is anchor in its own in its a

735
00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:09,780
specific proprietary thing and
the only reason it makes a blip

736
00:45:09,780 --> 00:45:13,710
on this radar is because anchor
pumps out a bazillion junk feeds

737
00:45:13,710 --> 00:45:16,860
all the time. Yeah, crap saying
I'm tossing that out because

738
00:45:16,860 --> 00:45:18,960
that one's not you don't exist
to me anchor.

739
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,390
Adam Curry: You don't exist to
me You're dead to me You're dead

740
00:45:21,390 --> 00:45:21,720
to me.

741
00:45:22,650 --> 00:45:26,610
Dave Jones: So I'm I mean I can
make a great case that as far as

742
00:45:26,610 --> 00:45:33,090
like podcasts specific namespace
adoption we're number two. Yeah

743
00:45:33,210 --> 00:45:34,440
Rabbana twins baby.

744
00:45:34,500 --> 00:45:36,930
Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, but but
it's not a competition with this

745
00:45:36,930 --> 00:45:40,890
is my entire point like Rancors
all this doesn't matter it

746
00:45:40,890 --> 00:45:46,800
doesn't matter. It's it we only
have what 15,000 value enabled

747
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,380
feeds look at the money that's
flowing around, look at the

748
00:45:49,380 --> 00:45:53,220
value look at the blips and the
pings and the bloops and the and

749
00:45:53,220 --> 00:45:56,640
the and the and the integration,
the interop between all these

750
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,940
things. That's what matters.
That's what matters.

751
00:46:00,240 --> 00:46:04,590
Dave Jones: It makes me happy.
This makes me happy because it

752
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:12,000
it it obviates the argument of
well, we're not going to adopt

753
00:46:12,030 --> 00:46:15,540
it until we see it gained some
traction. Right. Yeah,

754
00:46:15,570 --> 00:46:20,010
Adam Curry: yeah. Yeah, that was
off the board. Now it is, takes

755
00:46:20,010 --> 00:46:23,190
up except for the people who are
afraid of it, who want control

756
00:46:23,190 --> 00:46:26,430
who wants to maintain control
and don't want the Wild West

757
00:46:26,430 --> 00:46:30,870
coming into their, into their
publicly listed company? And

758
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:34,860
that's, and that's Apple,
Spotify, Google, Amazon, etc.

759
00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:36,270
And I don't think they'll ever
let it in.

760
00:46:37,230 --> 00:46:39,720
Dave Jones: dribs cuts it foam
finger number two.

761
00:46:41,490 --> 00:46:43,110
Adam Curry: Should we bring our
guests in because they're just

762
00:46:43,110 --> 00:46:46,020
sitting here listening to us Yap
away, and they've got some

763
00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:49,770
interesting things that that
they've been working on. Yep.

764
00:46:49,860 --> 00:46:53,790
And I just realized that I don't
even know one of our guests last

765
00:46:53,790 --> 00:46:56,250
name, but since he lives in a
shack in the woods, maybe that's

766
00:46:56,250 --> 00:47:01,500
intentional. I'd like to say
hello to from rss.com, Alberto.

767
00:47:02,010 --> 00:47:06,420
botella and from IPvs
podcasting.com. We have Cameron.

768
00:47:07,050 --> 00:47:10,500
No last name. Guys.

769
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:17,760
Dave Jones: Last Name redacted.
Yeah. The the turnover. I have a

770
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:22,200
I have something specific
though. I have declared that you

771
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,580
live in the forest. Adam said
you live in the woods. And what

772
00:47:26,580 --> 00:47:27,210
do you say?

773
00:47:28,860 --> 00:47:31,350
Cameron: I'm on the edge of a
national forest. So um,

774
00:47:31,380 --> 00:47:33,570
Adam Curry: yes, but that's not
the point. Do you live in a

775
00:47:33,570 --> 00:47:36,570
shack? Do you have like a Ted
Kaczynski like shack is the

776
00:47:36,570 --> 00:47:37,110
question.

777
00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:41,310
Cameron: No, it's bigger than a
12 by 12. But it's it's just a

778
00:47:41,310 --> 00:47:42,420
retirement place.

779
00:47:43,770 --> 00:47:49,620
Adam Curry: Over retirement
place. Seville? Yeah. Okay,

780
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,030
Dave Jones: now bear two lives
in a villa. That's Yes. No,

781
00:47:54,060 --> 00:47:57,180
Alberto: not yet. But whatever
question for for Cameron because

782
00:47:57,180 --> 00:48:01,950
we spoke so much on through
email, Cameron. When I heard

783
00:48:01,950 --> 00:48:05,790
your voice for the first time a
couple of weeks ago with some

784
00:48:05,790 --> 00:48:09,150
salary in the interview. When
you said you were retired. I

785
00:48:09,150 --> 00:48:14,040
would imagine you being very
old. But it seems as you sound

786
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,800
Young. I'm puzzled.

787
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:24,240
Cameron: I call it involuntary
retirement. Okay, you're back in

788
00:48:24,780 --> 00:48:26,760
2000 with the it bubble and

789
00:48:27,870 --> 00:48:31,770
Adam Curry: he made money there
you go. Nice.

790
00:48:32,460 --> 00:48:35,490
Alberto: Well, you have a VLAN
maybe you have a villa.

791
00:48:36,510 --> 00:48:40,830
Cameron: lost the money or lost
it Oh, okay. Oh

792
00:48:43,890 --> 00:48:46,620
Dave Jones: it's a 12 by 12
Check and outside as a sign on

793
00:48:46,620 --> 00:48:49,590
it this hanging this says villa.
That's was what Yeah, it's the

794
00:48:49,590 --> 00:48:50,520
money. Yeah,

795
00:48:50,550 --> 00:48:52,980
Adam Curry: no, I like the
camera. You like me? He's like,

796
00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:54,840
we made all this money and then
we blew it all in something

797
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,740
stupid on me. It was hookers and
blows and helicopters castles.

798
00:48:58,740 --> 00:49:06,720
You know, I had a good time I
spent it all. Well. Believe me,

799
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:13,380
it's not worth it. It's way
overhyped. So now Roberto, are

800
00:49:13,380 --> 00:49:15,420
you in Spain? Yes, I'm

801
00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:16,680
Alberto: in Spain. Okay. Well,
thank

802
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,330
Adam Curry: you for staying up
late with us this evening.

803
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,550
already. So you guys have been
working together. And something

804
00:49:23,550 --> 00:49:29,280
kind of exciting happened.
Cameron started IPFS podcasting

805
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:34,920
dotnet A while ago, and all of a
sudden he came up with some some

806
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:38,070
scheme I'm not I'm still not
sure how we're going to you and

807
00:49:38,070 --> 00:49:41,280
you are already you already set
up a node. So I'll let you guys

808
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:44,190
speak for yourselves about how
y'all connected and I started

809
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:47,910
doing this. And IPFS for people
don't know is the interplanetary

810
00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:51,450
file system. We've talked about
this ever since we started

811
00:49:51,450 --> 00:49:56,580
podcasting 2.0 as a possible
hosting solution. All cut there

812
00:49:56,580 --> 00:49:59,610
was always an issue that popped
up or something didn't work and

813
00:49:59,910 --> 00:50:02,670
I I think Dave and I would
revisit it from time to time,

814
00:50:02,670 --> 00:50:06,720
it's, you know, it's like, and
then they had, they had a, like

815
00:50:06,750 --> 00:50:10,680
a file coin that was attached to
it. And it just all became kind

816
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,490
of achy. But that, you know, the
IPFS basics, were still out

817
00:50:14,490 --> 00:50:18,030
there. I'm on the newsletter, so
I always see it coming in. But

818
00:50:18,030 --> 00:50:22,980
then Cameron somehow hooked in a
payment scheme with lightning.

819
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:31,320
So that when someone hosts or
pins, a podcast on their node,

820
00:50:31,530 --> 00:50:35,100
they can participate in some of
the value flow, which was mind

821
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:41,940
boggling am and really works.
There's some minor issues, but

822
00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:46,710
maybe, maybe Cameron, if you
wouldn't mind, giving us the

823
00:50:46,710 --> 00:50:51,030
backstory to what you set up?
How long ago this was and how

824
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:52,950
you and Alberto started to work
together.

825
00:50:54,270 --> 00:50:57,540
Cameron: Yeah, it'll be almost
three years this fall, I think

826
00:50:57,540 --> 00:51:04,050
that I started it. I was trying
to figure out a use for IPFS. I

827
00:51:04,050 --> 00:51:08,250
mean, a lot of people wanted to
backup their websites and files

828
00:51:08,250 --> 00:51:12,210
and things like that. But it was
just so unstructured. So

829
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:15,300
podcasting, you know, if you
talk about RSS, it seemed like

830
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:18,210
it was structured perfectly that
I could know what I'm getting

831
00:51:18,210 --> 00:51:21,900
into, you know, as far as
importing the feeds and knowing

832
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:27,660
what the files would be. So,
yeah, I went with that. And

833
00:51:27,690 --> 00:51:30,570
Alberto saw it right away. And
he's like, this is great, you

834
00:51:30,570 --> 00:51:36,060
know, we should all be sharing
this, you know, trying to donate

835
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:39,990
our bandwidth, you know, to help
hosting. So now

836
00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:42,660
Adam Curry: the event started
about a year in the hosting

837
00:51:42,660 --> 00:51:46,020
business, you charge people for
hosting. So what drove you to be

838
00:51:46,020 --> 00:51:46,890
a part of this?

839
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:52,920
Alberto: Ah, well, I can
explain. Are Are we in the

840
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,760
hosting business? That's a
question, I think that we are

841
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:03,000
defined as hosting platforms.
And but that's, that's really

842
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,610
commoditize, in my opinion. So
that's something we've been

843
00:52:05,610 --> 00:52:08,970
thinking for a while. When you
leave. When you check the pot

844
00:52:08,970 --> 00:52:11,850
scape from Magellan, for
example, we are defined hosting

845
00:52:11,850 --> 00:52:16,830
platforms. You guys were talking
about, you know, hosting a

846
00:52:16,830 --> 00:52:21,060
couple of weeks ago, and how
bandwidth is expensive, I think

847
00:52:21,060 --> 00:52:25,560
even thought sent a message
talking about how much it spends

848
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:26,850
every month for bandwidth.

849
00:52:26,970 --> 00:52:29,490
Adam Curry: Yeah, like when I
sent here 30 grand or something.

850
00:52:30,450 --> 00:52:31,020
Amount.

851
00:52:31,140 --> 00:52:35,910
Alberto: Yeah. 30 plus. So the
reason why I saw it right away,

852
00:52:35,940 --> 00:52:40,650
or at least I wanted, we as in
our sister calm, wanted to offer

853
00:52:40,650 --> 00:52:45,870
some resources to Cameron. And
so a big node, dedicated, easy

854
00:52:45,870 --> 00:52:50,640
to instance, on AWS that he's
actually maintaining. So it's

855
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,850
very nice because we offered the
resource but Cameron is using

856
00:52:53,850 --> 00:53:00,060
it, I believe Cameron also for
some tests, when he did. So the

857
00:53:00,060 --> 00:53:05,010
point is, we don't feel these
would jeopardize the hosting

858
00:53:05,010 --> 00:53:10,680
industry because I at least for
our says.com, we our business

859
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:16,770
model is not based on excess
bandwidth, we feel we offer a

860
00:53:16,770 --> 00:53:20,730
set of tools for publishers, we
are working with AI now thinking

861
00:53:20,730 --> 00:53:26,340
about the next level of feature,
the features. And when I think

862
00:53:26,340 --> 00:53:32,610
about hostings it's such an old
concept. And think about Wix and

863
00:53:32,610 --> 00:53:37,140
Squarespace. Why nobody says
their house they're hosting, of

864
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:39,840
course, they're hosting your
assets if you upload an image on

865
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,950
Squarespace, but nobody cares.
They're publishing tools. So the

866
00:53:43,950 --> 00:53:48,210
reason why we are interested in
IPFS, we see the potential even

867
00:53:48,210 --> 00:53:52,920
more now with the value for
value splits. But even before,

868
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:56,940
it would be a way to the
centralized hosting, to really

869
00:53:56,940 --> 00:54:00,690
rely on CD ends, which we still
need, because they are because

870
00:54:00,690 --> 00:54:03,030
of their redundancy and
reliability, but just for

871
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:10,230
fallback. So it was very natural
to me. And I was I was puzzled.

872
00:54:10,770 --> 00:54:13,500
Because you, for example, Dave,
you were a bit skeptical a few

873
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:16,950
times you mentioned over the
past year until recently. I

874
00:54:16,950 --> 00:54:20,460
don't know if it works. But for
me, it was really right away. I

875
00:54:20,460 --> 00:54:24,690
thought we need to explore this
and and we're very, very excited

876
00:54:24,690 --> 00:54:26,190
about what what it can become.

877
00:54:26,490 --> 00:54:28,890
Adam Curry: I think it makes
sense. Yeah, this is very

878
00:54:28,890 --> 00:54:34,200
interesting, because I've always
seen the hosting business as a

879
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:39,390
heavy overhead of money for the
bandwidth. Actually, storage I

880
00:54:39,390 --> 00:54:44,490
think is is always under
estimated how large that can

881
00:54:44,490 --> 00:54:48,270
grow. I know storage becomes
cheaper and cheaper every year.

882
00:54:49,050 --> 00:54:53,070
But I've always seen it as a
very intense human business for

883
00:54:53,130 --> 00:54:57,060
education and teaching and of
course, the better your your

884
00:54:57,060 --> 00:55:00,210
tools are, the easier they are
to understand the less you have

885
00:55:00,210 --> 00:55:05,940
to miss handholding you have to
do? I think Dave, the reason we

886
00:55:06,300 --> 00:55:09,570
kind of got disinterested in
IPFS is because we were trying

887
00:55:09,570 --> 00:55:13,530
to distribute the database, the
weekly database and it kept

888
00:55:13,530 --> 00:55:14,160
breaking.

889
00:55:14,970 --> 00:55:18,630
Dave Jones: Yeah. So we have for
a long time we distributed this

890
00:55:18,660 --> 00:55:23,250
for over a year or more, we
distributed the database only on

891
00:55:23,250 --> 00:55:27,270
IPFS. Like it wasn't even, it
was not even available for as an

892
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:31,830
HTTP download. So then we had to
add the HTTP download later,

893
00:55:31,830 --> 00:55:36,510
because the IPFS just kept
getting so many emails of people

894
00:55:36,510 --> 00:55:39,780
saying I can't it's not working,
the IPFS downloads not working.

895
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:44,760
So we were randomly random in
parallel for a long time. And

896
00:55:44,790 --> 00:55:51,630
IPFS daemon on our VM and Linode
just kept, just kept breaking

897
00:55:51,630 --> 00:55:54,270
and just kept, I had to
eventually write a script that

898
00:55:54,270 --> 00:55:58,080
would resurrect that, that
process, you know, don't ever

899
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,120
try to resurrect it every five
minutes, because it was just

900
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,110
going down multiple times a day.
And that was so like, that was

901
00:56:04,110 --> 00:56:08,700
where my sort of disenchantment
with it came from, but I think

902
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,570
like that was, and I really am
starting to think that that had

903
00:56:12,570 --> 00:56:16,140
more to do with the size of the
file. Because what was

904
00:56:16,140 --> 00:56:18,660
happening? I mean, we were
hosting, you know, a gigabyte

905
00:56:19,020 --> 00:56:22,950
file size download, if you're,
if you're only talking about

906
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:28,350
smaller assets, like podcast
size, is probably not nearly as

907
00:56:28,350 --> 00:56:33,450
taxing on on a system, I would
think. And, you know, the other

908
00:56:33,450 --> 00:56:38,790
thing is like, I feel like, it
makes more, I agree with you

909
00:56:38,820 --> 00:56:42,300
better, I think, I think hosting
companies. I think it's just an

910
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:45,630
unfortunate relic of the past
that podcast hosts are still

911
00:56:45,630 --> 00:56:49,170
called hosting companies. I
really think I don't think that

912
00:56:49,170 --> 00:56:53,940
the value that you guys offer
comes from the fact that you

913
00:56:54,030 --> 00:56:58,710
provide bandwidth, I think most
of the, like, 99% of the value

914
00:56:58,710 --> 00:57:03,300
that the hosting companies
provide is tooling. I mean,

915
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,420
look, I mean, nobody, nobody
goes in and says, Hey, I need to

916
00:57:06,420 --> 00:57:10,980
build a website. Where can I get
the best bandwidth? I mean,

917
00:57:10,980 --> 00:57:14,730
like, nobody asks that question.
It's not even, it never comes up

918
00:57:14,730 --> 00:57:18,510
in somebody's mind. Everybody's
like, what the question you ask

919
00:57:18,510 --> 00:57:22,260
is, what's got who's got the
best, you know, interface? Who's

920
00:57:22,260 --> 00:57:25,710
got the best content management
system? Really, what the best

921
00:57:25,710 --> 00:57:29,220
stats, who's got the best stats?
It's all that stuff. I mean,

922
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:33,120
where the bandwidth, every
podcast hosting company would

923
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,850
love to get rid of their
bandwidth bill. I mean, that's

924
00:57:35,850 --> 00:57:38,670
the thing that they hate the
most. You know, what, what's

925
00:57:38,670 --> 00:57:42,480
fun? And what's the count? The
real competitive landscape? Is

926
00:57:42,510 --> 00:57:47,940
what, who has the best tools for
a particular, you know, brand,

927
00:57:47,940 --> 00:57:51,720
or sector or podcast or
whatever. That's really where

928
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:52,800
the competition is.

929
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,780
Cameron: Dan, Dave, I think the
distributed part doesn't a bit

930
00:57:57,780 --> 00:58:01,830
might be what, gotcha. You were
the only node hosted that file.

931
00:58:02,340 --> 00:58:06,720
Yeah, noticed? Yeah, I've
noticed, my first iteration of

932
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,290
this was, I was thinking, Oh, I
only need two nodes per file,

933
00:58:10,290 --> 00:58:12,420
because that'll get me
consensus, you know, that both

934
00:58:12,420 --> 00:58:16,950
nodes match. And that's all I'll
ever need. But that wasn't true.

935
00:58:17,340 --> 00:58:23,520
You know, I had, once I started
adding more nodes, you know, I

936
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,400
don't know about 10 or 15 nodes,
then the playback would work

937
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,950
better and better. And now, you
know, with the value splits,

938
00:58:28,950 --> 00:58:31,470
everybody wants to, you know,
host booster and ball and things

939
00:58:31,470 --> 00:58:35,580
like that. There's no problems,
you know, you have 50 nodes with

940
00:58:35,580 --> 00:58:39,990
the file. It can it'll find it,
you know, so your one note, I

941
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:40,920
think, was the problem.

942
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,680
Dave Jones: Yeah, cuz at that
point is just, it's no, it's

943
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,800
really no different than than
just serving a web serving and

944
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,170
over HTTP. I mean, you're just,
it's just like straight

945
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:49,800
downloads.

946
00:58:49,860 --> 00:58:52,020
Cameron: So you're just serving
the file.

947
00:58:52,110 --> 00:58:54,720
Adam Curry: This is really
interesting. So is Steven Bell,

948
00:58:54,810 --> 00:58:57,780
basically in competition with
rss.com?

949
00:59:03,060 --> 00:59:05,040
Alberto: I don't know what, what
do you think?

950
00:59:07,110 --> 00:59:11,370
Adam Curry: How about this? I'll
say yes, because he has all the

951
00:59:11,370 --> 00:59:17,610
tools I need. And now I have my
own bandwidth. But I

952
00:59:17,610 --> 00:59:23,520
successfully used IPFS for a
booster Graham ball. And, and I

953
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,780
don't pay him I pay him a split.
I give him a split for for

954
00:59:27,780 --> 00:59:28,740
everything I do.

955
00:59:30,750 --> 00:59:34,410
Alberto: Yeah, in that, in that
sense. It could be a competitor.

956
00:59:34,590 --> 00:59:39,360
But again, it really depends on
on the needs of the user, you

957
00:59:39,510 --> 00:59:43,590
you may be labeled as a Pro
user.

958
00:59:43,620 --> 00:59:47,190
Adam Curry: Oh yeah. I'm I'm a
very bad customer to have

959
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:50,010
because I will text you would
11pm and say shit doesn't work.

960
00:59:50,010 --> 00:59:51,270
Come on, man. Fix it.

961
00:59:52,650 --> 00:59:57,330
Alberto: Yeah, think about the
majority of people they you

962
00:59:57,330 --> 01:00:02,280
know, we said before RSS is is
The content delivery method. But

963
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:06,450
most of the people, the longtail
the creators that are starting,

964
01:00:06,660 --> 01:00:10,800
and even professional
podcasters. They don't want to,

965
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:17,520
to write RSS feeds. They don't
want to make syntax errors, they

966
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,430
want that GUI they want the
graphical user interfaces.

967
01:00:20,670 --> 01:00:23,580
Adam Curry: You know, I'm in
total agreement with you. I

968
01:00:23,580 --> 01:00:28,530
mean, so I love that you think
this way, because this is, you

969
01:00:28,530 --> 01:00:33,030
know, Steven, I've told Stephen
Bell many times No, do not do

970
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:36,180
not get into the hosting
business. But it was never for

971
01:00:36,180 --> 01:00:41,010
the bandwidth. It was always you
don't have the physical human

972
01:00:41,010 --> 01:00:44,460
bandwidth to hold everybody's
hand all day long. Because

973
01:00:44,580 --> 01:00:48,960
there's such a huge, not even
support. I mean, you I think if

974
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,930
your tools are good, the support
kind of takes care of itself.

975
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:58,110
But it's the education part.
Now, you I mean, this is why all

976
01:00:58,110 --> 01:01:02,340
the hosting companies go to all
of the the podcast conferences,

977
01:01:02,550 --> 01:01:04,770
they're not necessarily part of
the podcasting industrial

978
01:01:04,770 --> 01:01:08,010
complex, but that's where they
can talk to people and educate

979
01:01:08,010 --> 01:01:10,770
them. You know, it's like, oh,
here's, here's how it works

980
01:01:10,770 --> 01:01:13,110
here, you know that people are
new, they don't know what to do,

981
01:01:13,110 --> 01:01:16,020
or they have questions, or they
don't understand the difference

982
01:01:16,020 --> 01:01:20,280
between one tool and the other
tool it and that's a no, can we

983
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,650
do you mind? If I ask Roberto?
How many? How many people do you

984
01:01:22,650 --> 01:01:26,160
have in customer support? Or is
it all just you? Oh,

985
01:01:26,190 --> 01:01:30,450
Alberto: no, no, we have, we
have Michael, which is, who is

986
01:01:30,450 --> 01:01:34,080
the head of CX customer
experience, we like to call it

987
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,260
experience. And then we have
four people in different

988
01:01:37,260 --> 01:01:40,680
counties. So we have five
people. So one, on the one hand,

989
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:45,240
customer support is really
important. It's the one of the

990
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,840
added values. But again, also
publishing tools like

991
01:01:50,490 --> 01:01:54,870
transcripts, and other features
we are building in the

992
01:01:54,900 --> 01:01:58,740
backstage. These are the parts.
These are part of the unique

993
01:01:58,890 --> 01:02:02,310
service proposition app, how
many people are using sovereign

994
01:02:02,310 --> 01:02:06,210
feeds. I don't know the number.
But these are a specific niche

995
01:02:06,210 --> 01:02:09,090
of users. And that's why it
works so well, because it

996
01:02:09,420 --> 01:02:12,630
targets and caters to those
users. But if you want the

997
01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:15,600
longtail or you want to make
sure everyone has the

998
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:19,620
opportunity to start a podcast.
That's where a product that's

999
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:24,780
that's extremely simple can
work. And that's why hosting and

1000
01:02:24,780 --> 01:02:28,290
bandwidth, it's secondary to us.
It may not be for other

1001
01:02:28,290 --> 01:02:32,400
companies that have been in the
business since 2006. Or, or

1002
01:02:32,430 --> 01:02:37,650
earlier than us. But we never
designed our company to rely

1003
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,940
where our revenue would rely on
excess bandwidth or bandwidth in

1004
01:02:41,940 --> 01:02:42,360
general.

1005
01:02:45,570 --> 01:02:49,560
Dave Jones: to only ask you
what, what specifically is it

1006
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:52,110
that you're that you are
hosting? Are you hosting hosting

1007
01:02:52,110 --> 01:02:54,630
an IPFS node or a gateway?

1008
01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:58,980
Alberto: I don't know that. I
wish we had that gateway. It was

1009
01:02:58,980 --> 01:03:02,940
a great conversation in the in
the last in your last episode.

1010
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,560
Gateways should be probably
there should be a dedicated

1011
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:12,150
gateway for IPS IPFS.
Podcasting, absolutely just a

1012
01:03:12,150 --> 01:03:15,810
node. So the node is running the
Python code that Cameron

1013
01:03:15,870 --> 01:03:22,110
provides me the only difference
from other nodes that we just

1014
01:03:22,110 --> 01:03:27,870
put some money and, and put a
terabyte of data, there are

1015
01:03:27,870 --> 01:03:33,540
storage. And it's now hosting.
At the moment, it has more than

1016
01:03:33,540 --> 01:03:39,150
700 peers hosting. I'm not sure
how many episodes, but we have

1017
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:46,470
up to 350 gigabyte of storage
that are delivering the head to

1018
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:50,340
deliver IPFS podcasting shows.
So let's get right on. Did they

1019
01:03:50,340 --> 01:03:51,060
forget anything?

1020
01:03:51,810 --> 01:03:54,330
Cameron: Sorry, no, last I
checked, you had about 6000

1021
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:55,080
episodes.

1022
01:03:57,630 --> 01:04:00,720
Adam Curry: You're supporting
the whole podcast industry.

1023
01:04:01,740 --> 01:04:04,650
Cameron: Oh, that's why it's
been a godsend. Because, you

1024
01:04:04,650 --> 01:04:07,350
know, the nodes they come and
go. But his has been there the

1025
01:04:07,350 --> 01:04:09,690
whole time. So there have been
times when you know, I lose a

1026
01:04:09,690 --> 01:04:12,420
bunch of nodes. And like thank
God Alberto was there because

1027
01:04:12,420 --> 01:04:13,980
he's got most of the files.

1028
01:04:14,580 --> 01:04:17,160
Dave Jones: I find this
fascinating for this reason that

1029
01:04:17,340 --> 01:04:22,470
Albear or sis.com. They're known
as hosting shows from other

1030
01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:23,190
podcast hosts.

1031
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:27,090
Adam Curry: Right. That's right.
I love that. That's fantastic.

1032
01:04:27,090 --> 01:04:27,210
Is

1033
01:04:27,210 --> 01:04:30,750
Dave Jones: this something that
in that sense? Is this something

1034
01:04:30,780 --> 01:04:35,070
Alberto, the podcast standards
group? could do? Could they

1035
01:04:35,100 --> 01:04:42,210
could they encourage their their
members to spin up a IPFS

1036
01:04:42,210 --> 01:04:43,080
podcasting node?

1037
01:04:43,980 --> 01:04:48,000
Alberto: So let me tell you, it
could, we could do that. But

1038
01:04:48,030 --> 01:04:54,390
we'd never spoke about IPFS at
least not yet. We speak on the

1039
01:04:54,540 --> 01:04:57,690
main conversation is about
podcasting. 2.0 tags adoption

1040
01:04:57,810 --> 01:05:01,080
and how together we can move the
industry way towards innovation.

1041
01:05:01,740 --> 01:05:05,070
Yes, it could be some
conversation we should have at

1042
01:05:05,070 --> 01:05:08,970
the moment, just to be very
clear, we host these episodes.

1043
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:15,270
And for us is an r&d project.
Perhaps we came around one of

1044
01:05:15,270 --> 01:05:19,380
the first conversation to me so
that my original, perhaps my

1045
01:05:19,380 --> 01:05:24,330
naive vision at the time, was,
if we want to offer free

1046
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:29,220
hosting, free hosting, then you
can pay for publishing tools or

1047
01:05:29,220 --> 01:05:34,140
for free per transcripts for for
for AI summarization. But if we

1048
01:05:34,140 --> 01:05:37,470
want to offer free hosting, how
cool would it be to have a

1049
01:05:37,470 --> 01:05:42,630
client that you install in your
computer, and everyone

1050
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:45,540
participates to IPFS?
Podcasting? So if you want your

1051
01:05:45,540 --> 01:05:50,700
Show, hosted for free, then you
have this client running. And

1052
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:51,360
you just

1053
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:55,860
Adam Curry: you, you participate
in the network? Yes, yeah. So we

1054
01:05:55,860 --> 01:05:58,980
were discussing this. Alright,
so So now let's get to what I

1055
01:05:58,980 --> 01:06:02,190
think is the interim step. And
maybe it's not, which is the

1056
01:06:02,190 --> 01:06:07,200
gateway. And so when I started
booster, gram ball, I decided to

1057
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,650
go balls to the wall, I'm gonna
throw this thing on IPFS right

1058
01:06:10,650 --> 01:06:13,620
out of the gate and out of the
gate, it worked. It worked

1059
01:06:13,620 --> 01:06:21,630
perfectly. It works beautifully.
The last week, I started to get

1060
01:06:21,630 --> 01:06:24,780
some, some well, okay, let me
just step back for a second.

1061
01:06:25,830 --> 01:06:29,040
James Cridland appropriately
said that really what's

1062
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:32,850
happening is all this guy is
going to the IPFS, labs gateway

1063
01:06:32,850 --> 01:06:38,640
ipfs.io. And, which means they
can shut stuff off. In fact,

1064
01:06:39,060 --> 01:06:43,560
there was an episode of
something. I can't remember what

1065
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:46,320
it was Cameron, you might was
one episode of the no agenda,

1066
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,940
one episode had been blocked by
ipfs.io. And they unblocked it

1067
01:06:50,940 --> 01:06:54,420
when you email them. But that's
kind of the problem is that they

1068
01:06:54,420 --> 01:06:56,850
blocked it. So they'll
everyone's kind of like, well,

1069
01:06:56,850 --> 01:07:00,810
anything can be blocked at any
moment. And then just the nature

1070
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:07,290
of one gateway has been blocked
by some network somewhere,

1071
01:07:07,290 --> 01:07:09,780
certainly, some corporate
networks are like, Oh, no,

1072
01:07:09,810 --> 01:07:13,860
anything coming off of this
ipfs.io has got to be, you know,

1073
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:19,770
like, basically treating it like
a torrent site, which I think

1074
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:22,830
something else may have been
added, because I got a couple of

1075
01:07:22,830 --> 01:07:26,670
reports in the past week. I
can't play it. And they and then

1076
01:07:26,670 --> 01:07:29,790
you know, like, I send them a
direct link that goes through

1077
01:07:29,790 --> 01:07:32,640
the redirector Oh, that works.
But then it doesn't work on any

1078
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:35,310
of the apps. I don't know if
there's cause issues. I don't

1079
01:07:35,310 --> 01:07:40,350
know all of that stuff. But when
you get four or five people

1080
01:07:40,350 --> 01:07:43,590
saying it doesn't work, then all
of a sudden, it's like, that

1081
01:07:43,590 --> 01:07:47,550
seems like 5000. To me, it's not
and you did a wonderful report.

1082
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,760
And you You broke it all down
was probably really only four or

1083
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:55,710
five people out of the 6000.
Maybe that that downloaded it.

1084
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:04,590
But is is the gateway the final
step. And the taking into

1085
01:08:04,590 --> 01:08:08,130
consideration, we might be able
to do the splits in a way that

1086
01:08:08,130 --> 01:08:12,780
the gateways get more money, or
more value from the value for

1087
01:08:12,780 --> 01:08:18,510
value splits? Or should really
all the apps be IPFS. Native? Is

1088
01:08:18,510 --> 01:08:21,150
that something that's even
possible? These are all the

1089
01:08:21,150 --> 01:08:22,110
questions I have?

1090
01:08:23,850 --> 01:08:26,160
Cameron: Yeah, I think the
ultimate would be the native

1091
01:08:26,220 --> 01:08:29,310
IPFS. Could they've been they
could grab straight from the

1092
01:08:29,310 --> 01:08:32,580
nodes, currently, you know, and
there wouldn't be any way to

1093
01:08:32,580 --> 01:08:37,740
block it. But I did seems pretty
difficult. As far as getting it

1094
01:08:37,740 --> 01:08:39,210
on Android and iOS.

1095
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,100
Adam Curry: Why? Why is that
difficult?

1096
01:08:42,510 --> 01:08:46,470
Cameron: JSON a podcast guru was
trying it. And he was having

1097
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:50,250
issues where I guess it used a
lot of resources running a node

1098
01:08:50,250 --> 01:08:54,480
on your phone. And then he had
to download the entire file

1099
01:08:54,510 --> 01:08:57,900
before he could hand it off to
the audio system. So you get a

1100
01:08:57,900 --> 01:09:01,500
huge delay. Yeah, yeah. So you
couldn't stream it? You could,

1101
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:03,570
you'd have to download the whole
thing before you started

1102
01:09:03,570 --> 01:09:06,510
playing. So I don't know if
there's a workaround for that

1103
01:09:06,510 --> 01:09:06,810
yet.

1104
01:09:06,870 --> 01:09:09,630
Adam Curry: There's no way to
just have a light light node

1105
01:09:09,630 --> 01:09:13,470
that just understands the IPFS
protocol. I guess not. I guess

1106
01:09:13,470 --> 01:09:15,240
I'm asking things that people
thought of.

1107
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,120
Cameron: Yeah, I don't know,
either. I mean, you've got to

1108
01:09:18,480 --> 01:09:21,270
talk that protocol. Yeah. And
you got to get get your peers

1109
01:09:21,270 --> 01:09:24,870
going and have enough peers. So
you can discover the files, you

1110
01:09:24,870 --> 01:09:27,450
know, because I know there's
1000s of peers out there.

1111
01:09:28,020 --> 01:09:30,210
Dave Jones: Let me just say
don't have them that breeze runs

1112
01:09:30,210 --> 01:09:34,770
into with running an lnd node on
the phone is right, okay.

1113
01:09:35,130 --> 01:09:36,570
channels open. Okay.

1114
01:09:37,140 --> 01:09:42,420
Cameron: Right. Gateways are the
backup, you know, so we can use

1115
01:09:42,420 --> 01:09:48,360
HTTP. So it'd be nice to have
volunteer gateways that could

1116
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:50,430
convert from IPFS to HTTP.

1117
01:09:50,460 --> 01:09:55,410
Adam Curry: So I've asked void
zero to set up a gateway or

1118
01:09:55,410 --> 01:09:59,190
gateways on the servers that I
have, which he's still working

1119
01:09:59,190 --> 01:10:04,710
on, I guess. Is there now? Is
there a way to reward gateway

1120
01:10:04,710 --> 01:10:07,530
nodes? For being a gateway?

1121
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:14,940
Cameron: Yeah, my, I guess
anything's possible. I just, we

1122
01:10:14,940 --> 01:10:18,870
were trying to figure out how to
decide which gateway gets paid.

1123
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:23,400
You know, so when a boost comes
in, you want to send the portion

1124
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:28,230
of that boost to the right
gateway, multiple gateways. So

1125
01:10:28,260 --> 01:10:30,870
currently, I don't know who's
using it right now everybody's

1126
01:10:30,870 --> 01:10:34,230
using IPFS. Io. But if there
were multiple gateways sharing

1127
01:10:34,230 --> 01:10:38,280
the load, I'd have to know where
to send that payment.

1128
01:10:39,180 --> 01:10:41,460
Dave Jones: Well, if we, I
thought I had a conversation on

1129
01:10:41,460 --> 01:10:45,420
the phone with Alex gates a few
days ago, and we were kind of

1130
01:10:45,450 --> 01:10:48,270
hashing some of this stuff out
coming to try to come up with

1131
01:10:48,270 --> 01:10:51,420
ideas on how to do that. And
his, I think, you know, he

1132
01:10:51,420 --> 01:10:54,720
posted some stuff on the
mastodon about it, and, you

1133
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:58,440
know, are two sort of, well, I
guess, you have three, you can

1134
01:10:58,440 --> 01:11:01,350
have sort of three methods, you
know, you could put multiple

1135
01:11:01,350 --> 01:11:08,730
gateways in the RSS feed. The
problem there is, you get like,

1136
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,510
imagine all this is in like the
alternate enclosure, you can

1137
01:11:12,510 --> 01:11:17,250
have multiple gateways defined
in those, just say, five random

1138
01:11:17,250 --> 01:11:21,240
gateways described in there. And
then you'd have fall backs, you

1139
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,340
try one, if it doesn't work, try
the next one, try the next one,

1140
01:11:23,340 --> 01:11:26,100
whatever. So you could do that.
But then then you have the

1141
01:11:26,100 --> 01:11:29,430
problem of having to keep the
RSS feed current. And, you know,

1142
01:11:29,430 --> 01:11:34,170
if one goes away, Oh, fine.
Yeah. So then you could have,

1143
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:39,360
the other option would be to do,
you know, do like a redirect,

1144
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:49,110
but then have a have a, like a
response header that says, oh,

1145
01:11:49,470 --> 01:11:53,070
like, like the IPFS gateway that
ends up responding out of like a

1146
01:11:53,070 --> 01:11:55,800
round robin or something like
that could could respond with or

1147
01:11:55,830 --> 01:12:00,840
you can give a response at her.
Say, you know, with the wallet

1148
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,210
address in there, so that if
it's successful, if you

1149
01:12:03,210 --> 01:12:06,120
successfully download it from
there, you could send sin SATs

1150
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,590
back. That would be one way. And
we had a third way that I can't,

1151
01:12:11,010 --> 01:12:13,440
that he came up with, and I
can't remember off top my head.

1152
01:12:14,370 --> 01:12:16,470
What are your thoughts on that?
Camera?

1153
01:12:19,380 --> 01:12:22,230
Cameron: Well, I think I can do
what the TLV record somebody's

1154
01:12:22,230 --> 01:12:24,990
analysis mad at me or doesn't
like me? Yeah.

1155
01:12:25,650 --> 01:12:27,960
Adam Curry: No, I think that's
just Alex, I don't think you'd

1156
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:29,700
take that personally. Well, I'm

1157
01:12:29,700 --> 01:12:31,860
Cameron: sure it's a source code
issue. He wants to view the

1158
01:12:31,860 --> 01:12:36,930
source for the algorithms and
all that stuff. The prefix that

1159
01:12:36,930 --> 01:12:42,840
you use now, it determines, you
know, where you're, if the file

1160
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:46,380
exists, and who hasn't, and all
that stuff. So, I mean, I could

1161
01:12:46,380 --> 01:12:50,220
use that to figure out which
gateway and do the round robin

1162
01:12:50,220 --> 01:12:53,790
through the prefix. The only
issue with the payment is the

1163
01:12:53,790 --> 01:12:58,110
boost coming back. And he did
like, I was thinking I have in

1164
01:12:58,110 --> 01:13:02,940
the domain of the host. So
viruses.com has a gateway. When

1165
01:13:02,940 --> 01:13:06,180
the player gets sends the boosts
back, they'll say, Well, I was

1166
01:13:06,180 --> 01:13:11,070
playing this via rss.com. Then
that would come back to the IPFS

1167
01:13:11,070 --> 01:13:15,180
split. I would know to go send
that boost to the RSS I can.

1168
01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:21,090
Dave Jones: Transmit is good,

1169
01:13:21,300 --> 01:13:27,120
Alberto: Cameron, statistics and
analytics? If would there be a

1170
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,690
way for gateways to share
analytics so that you can have

1171
01:13:30,690 --> 01:13:34,710
an overview as a as a podcaster
running here or distributing

1172
01:13:34,710 --> 01:13:39,240
your show through IPFS? Could
that's what that's what always

1173
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:43,740
concerned me a bit if I have a
concern is the analytics you can

1174
01:13:43,770 --> 01:13:46,590
extrapolate from IPFS.

1175
01:13:48,090 --> 01:13:50,040
Cameron: Yeah, that's that's an
issue because you're only going

1176
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:54,000
to see the plays that you're
like, go through your gateway,

1177
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:55,500
you're not gonna see the other
gateways.

1178
01:13:55,980 --> 01:13:57,870
Adam Curry: Isn't that worse,
but what comes in because we've

1179
01:13:57,870 --> 01:14:01,200
been using Spurlock braid,
basically for for the stats for

1180
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:03,240
the shows, right with the his
redirect.

1181
01:14:03,780 --> 01:14:06,600
Cameron: Yeah, that's actually
good point. Spurlock. He's got

1182
01:14:06,630 --> 01:14:09,240
everything because he's going to
get in the redirect before it

1183
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:13,470
comes to IPFS. Podcasting. So he
has all the data. And then I'm

1184
01:14:13,470 --> 01:14:15,630
storing some data to, to

1185
01:14:17,010 --> 01:14:19,620
Adam Curry: kind of just stop
for a second and just realize

1186
01:14:19,620 --> 01:14:23,070
that here we are for guys who
have never met each other in

1187
01:14:23,070 --> 01:14:26,130
person. Well, Dave and I have
met. There's people all over the

1188
01:14:26,130 --> 01:14:29,010
world who are working on this
and look at how we're doing.

1189
01:14:29,430 --> 01:14:32,250
This is so cool. And then Oh,
yeah. Spurlock he's got the

1190
01:14:32,250 --> 01:14:36,000
data. I love this. I just got I
just got goosebumps for a second

1191
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:40,860
here. Now. Like, no offense to
the podcast, working group, pod

1192
01:14:40,860 --> 01:14:43,380
standards working group, but
dude, look at what we're doing

1193
01:14:43,380 --> 01:14:45,360
here in the boardroom. This is
amazing.

1194
01:14:49,620 --> 01:14:51,870
Cameron: Yeah, Alberto, if you
wanted to duplicate something

1195
01:14:51,870 --> 01:14:55,800
like a like Spurlock, you know,
you have your own prefix for

1196
01:14:55,800 --> 01:15:00,780
stats for your hosts or your
podcasts. then you would be able

1197
01:15:00,780 --> 01:15:01,620
to see everything.

1198
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,400
Alberto: Yeah, that's the point
perhaps if there was a prefix

1199
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:10,650
from IPFS, podcasting, then
everything would be centralized.

1200
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:14,640
And then you could offer the
stats through, you know, J zone

1201
01:15:14,700 --> 01:15:20,520
or an API. Something that must
be centralized, I guess,

1202
01:15:20,610 --> 01:15:24,360
meaning, for example, we run
everything through a Python

1203
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:29,130
script you offer, and you still
keep track of who has what?

1204
01:15:29,250 --> 01:15:33,840
Correct. So if that's the case,
why don't you build the prefix?

1205
01:15:34,020 --> 01:15:38,010
This way, you can also get back
the stats. And I'm not saying

1206
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,230
the short term, but like the
long term for this to be a

1207
01:15:40,230 --> 01:15:42,810
viable solution. Wouldn't it
make sense?

1208
01:15:44,430 --> 01:15:46,530
Cameron: Yeah, I'd be
duplicating what Spurlock's

1209
01:15:46,530 --> 01:15:48,630
doing. But yeah, that's basic.
Why don't

1210
01:15:48,630 --> 01:15:50,730
Adam Curry: we just want to just
get whatever it's for luck. And

1211
01:15:50,730 --> 01:15:52,080
when we just get it from John's,

1212
01:15:52,350 --> 01:15:56,430
Dave Jones: his stuffs open
source? Yeah. Right. It's there.

1213
01:15:56,430 --> 01:16:00,810
Yeah. That. So let's see here, I
found I found I was supposed to

1214
01:16:00,810 --> 01:16:06,600
say, so he said, move forward,
putting the gateway URLs in

1215
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,140
Austria enclosure, see, and he
said, Oh, this is what it was.

1216
01:16:10,770 --> 01:16:14,400
So the other option, the third
option would be to have the

1217
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:20,970
gateway that's chosen, have like
a dot well known URL so that you

1218
01:16:20,970 --> 01:16:26,520
could have, so that you could
query the gateway. And know,

1219
01:16:27,090 --> 01:16:30,090
this was what we did with no
agenda tube in the early days.

1220
01:16:30,390 --> 01:16:36,300
So with no agenda tube, before,
it's supported before, Alex got

1221
01:16:36,300 --> 01:16:40,050
all the podcasts and tube
Windows support in their, their

1222
01:16:40,050 --> 01:16:45,150
RSS stuff, and peer to was
pretty limited. So what we did

1223
01:16:45,150 --> 01:16:53,040
was, he created a dot well known
URL on the agenda tube, where it

1224
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:57,900
would, it would just it just had
a JSON version of, of a wallet.

1225
01:16:58,500 --> 01:17:04,650
It had it specified in that
JSON, the fee, essentially. So

1226
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:09,330
any, so you could query the URL
of whatever donate domain name,

1227
01:17:09,330 --> 01:17:13,710
you had FTD. And you had, and
see what they what their, their

1228
01:17:13,710 --> 01:17:18,000
fee was. So I could see it being
the same way here. You could

1229
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,360
just query the dot well known
and find out what this IPFS

1230
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:26,580
gateways fee is. And just use,
you know, wow, you can

1231
01:17:26,850 --> 01:17:29,790
Adam Curry: get the algorithm
sophisticated. I like that idea.

1232
01:17:30,150 --> 01:17:32,580
Dave Jones: You choose the
cheapest one or the one that's

1233
01:17:32,580 --> 01:17:35,670
most reliable or whatever. I
mean, that's an option.

1234
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:38,280
Cameron: Right, but who makes
the payment, then the player

1235
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,170
would be making the payment?
Right? That's not a part of the

1236
01:17:40,170 --> 01:17:42,840
IPFS. Split? That'd be a
separate

1237
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:46,440
Dave Jones: split. Yeah, the
play? Yeah.

1238
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:51,090
Cameron: And then another
question, Adam was who defines

1239
01:17:51,750 --> 01:17:54,390
the fee? God, God,

1240
01:17:54,420 --> 01:18:01,740
Adam Curry: Jesus, Jesus
determined? I mean, that's

1241
01:18:01,740 --> 01:18:04,380
certainly the free market. You
know, the, the free market

1242
01:18:04,380 --> 01:18:08,310
determines that. He's not the
beauty of it. Like if you can

1243
01:18:08,310 --> 01:18:12,450
have competing nodes, and just
like Dave said, you know, it's

1244
01:18:12,450 --> 01:18:16,770
like, Well, this one's reliable,
or this one has is fast, or this

1245
01:18:16,770 --> 01:18:21,420
one's you know, my body or
whatever it is, and then, you

1246
01:18:21,420 --> 01:18:25,320
know, then the fee comes into
place, or what does that cost? I

1247
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:29,250
mean, I'm not, I'm not I'm less
worried about that. About who

1248
01:18:29,250 --> 01:18:32,400
determines when you say, Who
determines the fee is wouldn't?

1249
01:18:32,430 --> 01:18:36,420
Okay, I'm presuming the node
operator, the gateway operator

1250
01:18:36,420 --> 01:18:39,150
determines the fee. I think that
is that your question? Because

1251
01:18:39,180 --> 01:18:42,360
that can't really be determined,
because it's coming from the

1252
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:42,870
app?

1253
01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:46,920
Cameron: Well, currently, the
way I understand all the splits

1254
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:50,880
are defined by the podcaster.
You decide how much right hey,

1255
01:18:50,910 --> 01:18:56,640
right, you know, to IPFS? Or
Stephen or whoever. So if a

1256
01:18:56,640 --> 01:19:01,350
gateway comes by and says, Well,
I want 10%. Is that coming out

1257
01:19:01,350 --> 01:19:05,340
of yours? You know, or then are
we doing the fee thing? Where

1258
01:19:05,370 --> 01:19:06,450
you add it to this?

1259
01:19:07,290 --> 01:19:11,070
Dave Jones: Say, that's why the
fee thing exists? Yeah. Because

1260
01:19:11,100 --> 01:19:15,900
because there's a recognition
here that there's there's going

1261
01:19:15,900 --> 01:19:20,550
to be costs. If for certain
services are provided, there's

1262
01:19:20,550 --> 01:19:24,060
going to be costs that are fixed
that can't they, they can't be

1263
01:19:24,060 --> 01:19:27,840
sort of like bartered in real
time. So you have like for bet

1264
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,110
for bandwidth if you have people
providing it, they've got this

1265
01:19:31,110 --> 01:19:34,800
fixed cost, so they have to do
like a fee instead of a pay what

1266
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:39,090
you want type scenario. They
it's more binary. So they're

1267
01:19:39,090 --> 01:19:42,630
like well, I mean, I can either
serve you this file and it's

1268
01:19:42,630 --> 01:19:46,830
going to cost this or I can't
because I'm going to because I'm

1269
01:19:46,830 --> 01:19:48,420
having to pay somebody upstream

1270
01:19:53,460 --> 01:19:58,620
Adam Curry: Okay. Let's knock
away for the enthusiasm on that

1271
01:19:58,620 --> 01:19:58,830
one.

1272
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,740
Alberto: I think thinking but at
the at the moment with nodes,

1273
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:11,340
Cameroon, you choose the fee,
right? We put our wallet, and we

1274
01:20:11,340 --> 01:20:17,220
just you explain how use you
split. But we cannot say, you

1275
01:20:17,220 --> 01:20:24,120
know, I want X percent or I can
specify a value. So why not

1276
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:29,520
starting for gateway with a with
a similar rationale, and maybe

1277
01:20:29,550 --> 01:20:34,350
with an algorithm or just some
some rules, given on how many

1278
01:20:35,100 --> 01:20:39,300
episodes you serve and some
other criteria, you increase or

1279
01:20:39,330 --> 01:20:41,820
decrease the fee? It wouldn't be
easier.

1280
01:20:43,290 --> 01:20:45,840
Cameron: Well, the fee right now
is optional. You don't have to,

1281
01:20:46,290 --> 01:20:48,720
Adam Curry: I think he's talking
about the split that you do the

1282
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:49,410
IPFS

1283
01:20:49,410 --> 01:20:52,890
Alberto: split the split I
mentioned. So if you have you

1284
01:20:52,890 --> 01:21:01,230
explained that, if you get a
certain number of sets certain

1285
01:21:01,230 --> 01:21:05,520
value, then the nodes get, I
think it's a 5% split for a PFS

1286
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:08,250
broadcasting, right. And then
this is distributed to the

1287
01:21:08,250 --> 01:21:10,050
nodes. So why not doing

1288
01:21:11,009 --> 01:21:16,319
Cameron: five to 5% is optional.
If the podcaster gives the 5% or

1289
01:21:16,319 --> 01:21:21,299
10% or 1%. I take whatever I
get, and then I just divided up.

1290
01:21:22,169 --> 01:21:23,339
Ryan stole it? No,

1291
01:21:23,490 --> 01:21:26,010
Alberto: that's what I'm saying.
I would start like that. That's

1292
01:21:26,010 --> 01:21:30,960
proportional to whatever is the
boost.

1293
01:21:32,340 --> 01:21:36,180
Cameron: Okay. Yeah, that was my
thought too, was to say, like,

1294
01:21:36,180 --> 01:21:38,910
if you say, 1%, if you want to
say half of whatever I get goes

1295
01:21:38,910 --> 01:21:41,160
to the gateway and the other
half day, you know, there you

1296
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,280
Adam Curry: go. That's our
thinking. Yeah, I think that's

1297
01:21:44,490 --> 01:21:48,810
and then move and moving
forward, I would say. Yeah, I

1298
01:21:48,810 --> 01:21:53,280
mean, the way I view it is, if
you want IPFS podcasting

1299
01:21:53,310 --> 01:21:58,710
hosting, then it has to be a
minimum of x. This is And now,

1300
01:21:59,100 --> 01:22:05,490
for instance, if I want if I
want all my booster grams to

1301
01:22:05,490 --> 01:22:13,020
show up on fountain, I have to
put in a minimum of 1% split so

1302
01:22:13,020 --> 01:22:15,630
that they receive that it goes
to my account over there, which

1303
01:22:15,630 --> 01:22:17,760
is kind of interesting, because
it actually comes back to me.

1304
01:22:18,180 --> 01:22:22,680
But the service I've envisioned
moving forward will say, Well,

1305
01:22:22,890 --> 01:22:27,450
you want this service, if it's
not this amount, if it's not

1306
01:22:27,450 --> 01:22:30,120
this number of split, then the
service doesn't work for you. I

1307
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:35,190
mean, I don't see any problem
with that. If that makes any

1308
01:22:35,190 --> 01:22:35,730
sense.

1309
01:22:36,330 --> 01:22:38,610
Cameron: Yeah, it does. I mean,
I'd like the idea that it's

1310
01:22:38,610 --> 01:22:41,490
optional, just to onboard people
to test it out course, of

1311
01:22:41,490 --> 01:22:47,820
course, without forcing them to,
of course, what. Again, the

1312
01:22:47,820 --> 01:22:50,400
gateway part, you know, if I say
whatever I get, I'm gonna give

1313
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:53,400
half to the gateway. The gateway
is not deciding how much they

1314
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:59,100
need. It's whatever the
podcaster defines as a split,

1315
01:22:59,550 --> 01:23:02,730
and then half of that, or
whatever it ends up being.

1316
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:08,550
Adam Curry: I'll tell you what,
why don't we all take a little

1317
01:23:08,550 --> 01:23:15,390
breather. I'd like to bum rush
the chart for a moment and play

1318
01:23:15,390 --> 01:23:19,200
a song. So we all can just click
Collect our thoughts. And then

1319
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:22,140
also, once again, demonstrate
the magical wallet switching

1320
01:23:22,140 --> 01:23:27,030
technology with a song that I
think is perfect for Friday for

1321
01:23:27,030 --> 01:23:31,290
a boardroom there. When I was in
radio, we used to have a song

1322
01:23:31,290 --> 01:23:33,510
that he played with, there'll be
a number of songs that we play

1323
01:23:33,510 --> 01:23:36,930
every Friday at five o'clock
into the five o'clock whistle

1324
01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:43,950
and then you play Oh goodness.
Just like five you know, take

1325
01:23:43,950 --> 01:23:47,700
this job and shove it and you
know all these different work

1326
01:23:47,700 --> 01:23:51,450
quitting songs for it's time for
the weekend. Oh, yeah. And one

1327
01:23:51,450 --> 01:23:55,800
of them was Todd Ron grins. I
don't want to work. I want to

1328
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:59,970
play bang on the drum all day.
You'll hear it on every bad top

1329
01:23:59,970 --> 01:24:05,190
40 radio stations, I'm sure. So
I want to play a value for value

1330
01:24:05,190 --> 01:24:09,360
podcasting version of that Todd
Rundgren song which was done by

1331
01:24:09,690 --> 01:24:14,130
a guy named John Ross. And I
think he did a perfect perfect

1332
01:24:14,130 --> 01:24:19,920
version and use your curio
caster or live kit to boost his

1333
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,880
song if you don't mind. Work
sucks John Ross on 2.0.

1334
01:24:32,250 --> 01:24:35,250
Unknown: I go to work today.

1335
01:24:55,530 --> 01:25:05,280
Another day, another dollars all
my co workers Alright I got out

1336
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:05,490
of

1337
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:17,970
stocks

1338
01:25:37,860 --> 01:25:43,260
up another day

1339
01:25:49,710 --> 01:25:52,770
until the day you can leave this
place

1340
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:56,580
and under on I can't stress

1341
01:27:06,870 --> 01:27:13,290
oh my god oh my bosses sucks

1342
01:27:33,540 --> 01:27:37,290
Adam Curry: John Ross work sucks
thank you sir Spencer Dred Scott

1343
01:27:37,290 --> 01:27:40,590
Mr. Robot Mike Newman for
boosting through curio caster so

1344
01:27:40,590 --> 01:27:43,650
you know that when the played
the track the artist gets the

1345
01:27:43,650 --> 01:27:49,470
SATs beautiful and everyone's
dead?

1346
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:53,850
Dave Jones: Oh no I don't know
how to work this thing yet I

1347
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:59,250
muted myself physical buttons
screwed me up.

1348
01:28:00,240 --> 01:28:02,340
Adam Curry: I gotta I gotta give
you a little tutorial. There's

1349
01:28:02,340 --> 01:28:04,860
all kinds of cool stuff you can
do don't worry, it's you're

1350
01:28:04,860 --> 01:28:07,410
gonna love it. You're gonna love
that that road caster you're

1351
01:28:07,410 --> 01:28:07,980
going to love it.

1352
01:28:08,250 --> 01:28:11,640
Dave Jones: Yeah, let's talk in
a way that nobody here. So just

1353
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:11,820
before

1354
01:28:11,820 --> 01:28:15,420
Adam Curry: we get back to the
IPFS stuff, Dave TLVs. And what

1355
01:28:15,420 --> 01:28:19,380
because we need some we need our
apps are beautiful brothers and

1356
01:28:19,380 --> 01:28:23,130
arms have the apps to be doing
some stuff to their TLVs for

1357
01:28:23,130 --> 01:28:26,550
regular podcast. And then I'm
not even sure if we can talk

1358
01:28:26,550 --> 01:28:32,610
about boosting songs while we're
lit yet because that's that's a

1359
01:28:32,610 --> 01:28:37,080
whole nother can of worms but
please tell us what what are

1360
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:43,680
what are our apps need to be
sending so we can really crank

1361
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:47,010
up the discovery mechanism of
podcasts index dot top.

1362
01:28:48,210 --> 01:28:51,270
Dave Jones: Yes, I think I'm
working with the app developers

1363
01:28:51,270 --> 01:28:56,520
individually. I'm posting if I
see something that's needed I'm

1364
01:28:56,520 --> 01:29:00,840
just going through there one by
one and like Oscar, he's already

1365
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:04,290
posted some stuff to him he's
like yeah, I got it. We're good

1366
01:29:04,290 --> 01:29:09,720
to go. Okay. Franco a cast
Matic. He's good. I think he's

1367
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:14,940
good to go now. He knows he
knows what is needed. Sam said

1368
01:29:14,940 --> 01:29:19,740
the over pod fans a shot we
exchanged a few emails and he's

1369
01:29:20,610 --> 01:29:23,190
and gave him some examples and
he's like, Yep, got it. We're

1370
01:29:23,190 --> 01:29:26,100
good to go. I understand now. So
I think I think we're in good

1371
01:29:26,100 --> 01:29:30,750
shape. Okay, it was just a
matter of now. You know, we just

1372
01:29:30,750 --> 01:29:34,410
had to wait for it to sort of
play out through the like beta

1373
01:29:34,410 --> 01:29:40,170
and all this I think we're good
and so I finished the sequel

1374
01:29:41,430 --> 01:29:50,850
finish the sequel stuff on on on
the charting and oh my gosh is

1375
01:29:50,850 --> 01:29:56,820
so much faster. The chart builds
in about about three minutes. So

1376
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:02,760
if wow, that's cool way faster.
Yeah, verse Just 45 So I rebuilt

1377
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:03,750
it right before the shows.

1378
01:30:04,650 --> 01:30:07,140
Adam Curry: No, I see it. I see
it. Okay, I sent you a note to

1379
01:30:07,140 --> 01:30:09,930
change the wording at the top.
There's a little discrepancy

1380
01:30:09,930 --> 01:30:10,350
there.

1381
01:30:11,550 --> 01:30:15,540
Dave Jones: Okay, I just took
out all of that big paragraph,

1382
01:30:15,570 --> 01:30:17,550
Adam Curry: ya know, the only
thing is yeah, this is the

1383
01:30:17,550 --> 01:30:20,700
chart. This chart is a ranking
of the music podcasts that have

1384
01:30:20,700 --> 01:30:22,710
been boosted the most over the
last seven days. Well

1385
01:30:22,710 --> 01:30:27,780
technically it is the music
played on podcasts that have

1386
01:30:27,780 --> 01:30:30,480
been boosted Yeah, so just so
people understand what that but

1387
01:30:30,630 --> 01:30:39,960
I like it a lot. It's so fun to
see Fletcher and Blaney who have

1388
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:43,620
a tremendous audience very
dedicated they're all over this

1389
01:30:43,620 --> 01:30:44,070
chart.

1390
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:48,210
Dave Jones: They are in just the
name having this name of a song

1391
01:30:48,210 --> 01:30:49,440
be battled trance.

1392
01:30:51,150 --> 01:30:53,130
Adam Curry: We just want to see
that on the chart. And I love

1393
01:30:53,130 --> 01:30:55,260
the layout. Thank you Nathan
Garth Garth, right. That's

1394
01:30:55,260 --> 01:30:58,140
that's really did a great job on
that. And I love that the top

1395
01:30:58,140 --> 01:31:03,600
100 actually is like 115 Yeah,
that just makes so much sense.

1396
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:04,740
That's That's who we are.

1397
01:31:06,090 --> 01:31:07,470
Dave Jones: It's 100 ish.

1398
01:31:09,540 --> 01:31:11,790
Adam Curry: I'm gonna call that
the top 100

1399
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:15,150
Dave Jones: wrestle Beer. Beer
root rag. That one is always

1400
01:31:15,150 --> 01:31:20,190
dead last every band. I mean,
banjo music

1401
01:31:20,190 --> 01:31:21,840
Adam Curry: man is banjo music.

1402
01:31:23,550 --> 01:31:25,440
Dave Jones: It's like, it
doesn't matter how many times

1403
01:31:25,440 --> 01:31:28,170
are on the chart is always dead
last buddy. It's like it's just

1404
01:31:28,170 --> 01:31:30,510
hanging in there, Caboose. I
love it.

1405
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:34,020
Adam Curry: We have Cameron and
Oberto here in the boardroom

1406
01:31:34,020 --> 01:31:36,240
Cameron. If you could push all
the buttons, man, what do you

1407
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:39,390
want to have happen? What can we
what can we make? What can we

1408
01:31:41,190 --> 01:31:44,280
visualize for you materialize?
Oh,

1409
01:31:45,089 --> 01:31:46,919
Cameron: I don't know, I've got
a big list of things I need to

1410
01:31:46,919 --> 01:31:50,909
work on. Alberto knows there's
the algorithm has been?

1411
01:31:51,900 --> 01:31:55,500
Alberto: Why don't you give a
heads up on the algorithm?

1412
01:31:55,530 --> 01:32:00,090
Cameron is so interesting. Yeah.
Well, you cannot myself

1413
01:32:02,070 --> 01:32:02,820
Dave Jones: music chart.

1414
01:32:04,530 --> 01:32:07,920
Alberto: But what, uh, what the
algorithm is about and how to

1415
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:12,870
find the most of the Middle Way
of storage? And I think it's

1416
01:32:12,900 --> 01:32:15,120
extremely compelling, if you
will.

1417
01:32:17,070 --> 01:32:19,620
Cameron: Yeah, well, I've got
all these nodes asking for

1418
01:32:19,650 --> 01:32:24,240
something to do, like, what do I
work on? So I've got to come up,

1419
01:32:24,420 --> 01:32:26,940
you know, I'd have come up with
a way to tell them, you know,

1420
01:32:26,940 --> 01:32:29,850
hey, you should pin this show.
First, this one next, or, you

1421
01:32:29,850 --> 01:32:32,970
know, based on your favorites,
or your disk space available?

1422
01:32:33,810 --> 01:32:36,450
And Alberto, in the beginning,
he was asking, well, I want to

1423
01:32:36,450 --> 01:32:40,050
host everything. So just use up
all my disk and just keep

1424
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:43,500
shuffling through files. So
that's part of it, too, is

1425
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:46,890
trying to figure out how to, you
know, if somebody just sets a

1426
01:32:46,950 --> 01:32:49,980
percentage of their disk, say I
want to use 50% of my disk or

1427
01:32:49,980 --> 01:32:50,580
80%.

1428
01:32:52,620 --> 01:32:55,620
Dave Jones: What is the camera?
What is it currently?

1429
01:32:57,690 --> 01:33:01,770
Cameron: Currently, it's just
looking at your favorites, and

1430
01:33:01,830 --> 01:33:05,550
looking at expiration dates.
Because I've got that 48 hour

1431
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:12,600
option for if there's no
favorites, that you'll, it'll

1432
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:15,540
stay on IPFS. As long as this
gets plays, and once the plays

1433
01:33:15,540 --> 01:33:20,100
go away, then it'll get unpinned
from all the nodes. So it's

1434
01:33:20,100 --> 01:33:23,010
really I don't know how to I
don't know how to explain,

1435
01:33:23,010 --> 01:33:29,310
you're asking what is it? It's a
mess of code. So yeah, that's

1436
01:33:29,310 --> 01:33:29,790
part of the

1437
01:33:30,930 --> 01:33:35,040
Dave Jones: Now Phil Yeah. So it
gets that way with, with with

1438
01:33:35,250 --> 01:33:37,320
algorithms sometimes where you
just kind of step back and

1439
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:40,350
you're like, you know what, I
know something's happening here,

1440
01:33:40,350 --> 01:33:42,330
but I'm not really exactly sure
what it is.

1441
01:33:42,390 --> 01:33:44,760
Adam Curry: I forgot how I did
that. Yeah,

1442
01:33:44,820 --> 01:33:47,040
Dave Jones: I know what I know
what I thought I know what I was

1443
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:49,620
thinking at the time, but I'm
not sure it's actually doing

1444
01:33:49,620 --> 01:33:50,790
what I thought it was good.

1445
01:33:52,170 --> 01:33:54,240
Cameron: Yeah, another big
problem for me right now is

1446
01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:57,510
consensus between all the nodes
to make sure they all have the

1447
01:33:57,510 --> 01:34:01,470
exact same file. Oh, yeah. So
when someone has a podcast with

1448
01:34:01,470 --> 01:34:03,750
dynamic EDS, what do you do?

1449
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,920
Dave Jones: Man, I never thought
about that. What how do you hear

1450
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:08,430
the nodes

1451
01:34:08,430 --> 01:34:10,830
Cameron: kind of get in fights?
The nodes are fighting back and

1452
01:34:10,830 --> 01:34:12,450
forth and say, No, this is the
file.

1453
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:15,300
Adam Curry: Because yeah, right.
And this is wrong hash this.

1454
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:19,680
Right. Oh, man. I got a Spanish
ad the other day. Well, listen

1455
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:24,600
to new new media show. I'm like
You racist. Just because I'm in

1456
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:27,210
Texas, just because I'm in Hill
Country. Texas doesn't mean I

1457
01:34:27,210 --> 01:34:28,230
speak Spanish.

1458
01:34:28,830 --> 01:34:31,050
Dave Jones: Well, they'll start
serving those in New York soon.

1459
01:34:31,260 --> 01:34:34,950
Here. Right. and Russian, all
kinds of Russian. Yeah.

1460
01:34:36,420 --> 01:34:39,600
Cameron: Yeah, so I get a better
algorithm going on. Every day.

1461
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:43,260
I'm kind of tweaking the
database every morning to see

1462
01:34:43,260 --> 01:34:45,810
which files are stuck or which
No, how

1463
01:34:45,810 --> 01:34:49,110
Dave Jones: does that get loop?
How does it get resolved? So if

1464
01:34:49,140 --> 01:34:54,300
if, if my node gets one gets a
copy of this episode that has a

1465
01:34:54,300 --> 01:34:58,050
dynamic ad and the note in Adams
node gets one and they don't

1466
01:34:58,050 --> 01:35:00,120
match? What like how do you
resolve that? Less

1467
01:35:00,900 --> 01:35:03,840
Cameron: than one of you guys
have to be declared invalid. So

1468
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:07,440
right now I'm just saying, Well,
Adam got it later. So Dave's

1469
01:35:07,440 --> 01:35:13,590
must be different. So I tell you
to delete yours. And then I

1470
01:35:13,590 --> 01:35:16,980
might tell you to go get yours
from Adam. Wow. And then there's

1471
01:35:16,980 --> 01:35:19,380
the issue with the nodes and the
peer accounts that you might not

1472
01:35:19,380 --> 01:35:21,750
be able to talk to Adams node
directly

1473
01:35:22,619 --> 01:35:26,819
Adam Curry: on purpose of
talking to mind, right away, so

1474
01:35:26,819 --> 01:35:27,449
my node.

1475
01:35:28,350 --> 01:35:30,660
Cameron: So these, sometimes
there might be a weak node out

1476
01:35:30,660 --> 01:35:33,600
there that gets a file, and it
can't share it, you know, what's

1477
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,960
the only one with the file right
now, you know, when you're first

1478
01:35:37,050 --> 01:35:40,590
pinning. So then I've got to go
in and kind of kick that node

1479
01:35:40,590 --> 01:35:43,950
out. So he doesn't have the
file, so another node can kill

1480
01:35:43,950 --> 01:35:48,780
it. And I kind of secretly open
which I haven't used your node,

1481
01:35:48,810 --> 01:35:50,940
because you got a good note. I'm
like, okay, so that one's a lot

1482
01:35:50,940 --> 01:35:55,920
better just node. To him. Yeah,
that's my

1483
01:35:55,920 --> 01:36:00,120
Alberto: point. So Cameron,
sorry, then go ahead. No, go

1484
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:05,760
ahead. Dave. My point was that,
think about when I think about a

1485
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:11,610
node, it doesn't use a CDN, it
doesn't use CloudFront, for

1486
01:36:11,610 --> 01:36:16,680
example, so in our case, you
have an AWS easy to instance.

1487
01:36:16,860 --> 01:36:21,330
And when you create an instance,
you have to choose the storage,

1488
01:36:21,360 --> 01:36:25,440
like solid state drive, how much
do you want, and you pay monthly

1489
01:36:25,770 --> 01:36:28,860
for the storage, then you pay
for data transfer. So let's say

1490
01:36:28,860 --> 01:36:33,540
we have a terabyte, and now we
are using 38%. of of those. That

1491
01:36:33,540 --> 01:36:39,360
was my, my feeling of you know
what, why we are paying for a

1492
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:44,280
terabyte just fill it in now.
How you feel it in? It depends.

1493
01:36:44,550 --> 01:36:49,650
We have to favour it. Some
shows, for example, we have 37.6

1494
01:36:49,650 --> 01:36:54,720
gigabyte have no agenda I was
reading now, we have we have

1495
01:36:54,720 --> 01:37:00,240
tight 10.5 gigabyte of
podcasting 2.0. But for those

1496
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:05,850
shows where we are open to host,
for example. Well, those shows

1497
01:37:05,850 --> 01:37:10,050
with data that are verified that
they don't have the dog tag

1498
01:37:10,650 --> 01:37:13,650
activated because the IPF is
very important to explain our

1499
01:37:13,650 --> 01:37:17,850
FFS podcasting honors the dog
tag as well. So for those shows,

1500
01:37:17,880 --> 01:37:23,130
will be willing to host them for
for a while or forever without

1501
01:37:23,130 --> 01:37:26,850
having to favorite. So as long
as the show is, let's say, Save

1502
01:37:26,880 --> 01:37:30,420
to host. So we know there is the
consensus from the for also from

1503
01:37:30,420 --> 01:37:34,440
the podcaster, then why not
filling up our terabyte, and

1504
01:37:34,440 --> 01:37:37,350
then when it's filled up, there
should be an algorithm that

1505
01:37:37,350 --> 01:37:41,490
says, Okay, we need more space
from that node, what do we free,

1506
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:45,870
which are the episodes that we
remove? I think that's where my

1507
01:37:45,870 --> 01:37:49,530
standpoint was just, we are
paying one terabyte, and we're

1508
01:37:49,530 --> 01:37:52,980
filling it in only partially,
that's all that that's where it

1509
01:37:52,980 --> 01:37:53,640
came from?

1510
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:56,910
Dave Jones: Yeah, it's like,
it's like buying, it's like

1511
01:37:56,910 --> 01:38:02,280
buying a box with a with 200
gigs of RAM, and your database

1512
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:05,670
only uses 16 that you want to
get you want to get your money's

1513
01:38:05,670 --> 01:38:06,270
worth. Yeah.

1514
01:38:09,420 --> 01:38:11,820
Alberto: Right. And that's where
I think the algorithm would be

1515
01:38:11,850 --> 01:38:13,230
would make the difference?

1516
01:38:14,370 --> 01:38:18,960
Adam Curry: Well, I, I'm gonna
check in with Void zero again,

1517
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:21,570
and ask him where he's at with a
gateway, because I want to get

1518
01:38:21,570 --> 01:38:24,900
that up as soon as possible. We
don't have a bandwidth issue, we

1519
01:38:24,900 --> 01:38:29,700
can certainly help with, I think
pretty much everybody. Because,

1520
01:38:29,730 --> 01:38:32,850
you know, we have very specific
bandwidth uses, it's very

1521
01:38:32,850 --> 01:38:37,260
periodic. You know, we get these
huge bursts twice a week, and

1522
01:38:37,260 --> 01:38:40,290
that's kind of it. And
everything else is, is just

1523
01:38:40,290 --> 01:38:44,610
sitting there. So we'd love to
be the gateway and the one you

1524
01:38:44,610 --> 01:38:49,590
can experiment on and figure it
all out. You know, all this

1525
01:38:49,590 --> 01:38:52,620
stuff. You know, we don't
require payment to do the

1526
01:38:52,620 --> 01:38:55,500
experimentation. Let's just get
it rolling. I just want to get

1527
01:38:55,500 --> 01:38:59,520
it away from ipfs.io. Because
I'm worried about that. I just

1528
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:02,010
don't want everyone to jump in
and be like, Oh, it's great. And

1529
01:39:02,010 --> 01:39:08,250
then it's the same fear I have
of, of Alby, you know, when I'll

1530
01:39:08,250 --> 01:39:13,590
be goes down, because they will.
Everyone's going to cry. You

1531
01:39:13,590 --> 01:39:15,960
know, hopefully, it won't be too
long. But these things happen.

1532
01:39:16,650 --> 01:39:19,710
So it, you know, but when it's
within our group, that's

1533
01:39:19,710 --> 01:39:23,940
different. Because, you know,
one, one posting and more says,

1534
01:39:23,940 --> 01:39:26,910
Yeah, we got some crap going on.
All right, good. We're cool.

1535
01:39:26,910 --> 01:39:31,230
We'll figure it out. But if it's
ipfs.io, we don't, you know, we

1536
01:39:31,230 --> 01:39:34,140
don't have that kind of
relationship with them. Yet.

1537
01:39:34,140 --> 01:39:34,530
Okay.

1538
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:37,380
Cameron: Well, that's a good
first step, because it'd be easy

1539
01:39:37,380 --> 01:39:41,370
just to replace IPFS data with
your gateway. Yes. And then I

1540
01:39:41,370 --> 01:39:43,980
could send you the 1% Because
you're the only one using it.

1541
01:39:44,700 --> 01:39:47,250
Eventually, I want to have just
like you run a node now that you

1542
01:39:47,250 --> 01:39:50,460
could run a gateway, so there'd
be multiple gateways. Yeah,

1543
01:39:50,490 --> 01:39:54,420
Adam Curry: I mean, I have five
five gigabit fiber to my home

1544
01:39:54,450 --> 01:39:57,360
that's literally sitting here.
Let's fill that thing and it's,

1545
01:39:57,480 --> 01:40:01,290
it's a synchronous, I five up
and five down, you know, I'm

1546
01:40:01,290 --> 01:40:04,740
happy to fill that pipe up. Oh,
yeah. 100 bucks a month baby.

1547
01:40:05,130 --> 01:40:05,940
Go, Texas.

1548
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:10,200
Cameron: So when there's
multiple gateways, that's when

1549
01:40:10,200 --> 01:40:14,220
we run into Who do you pay? You
know, so. But before that before

1550
01:40:14,220 --> 01:40:16,050
we figure that out, yeah, we
could switch over to your

1551
01:40:16,050 --> 01:40:16,440
gateway,

1552
01:40:16,470 --> 01:40:18,570
Adam Curry: which is I mean, but
even that, don't worry about the

1553
01:40:18,570 --> 01:40:21,570
payment part. First, let's make
sure we can get the gateway

1554
01:40:21,570 --> 01:40:25,170
working, switch it over, then
then you can start experimenting

1555
01:40:25,170 --> 01:40:28,560
with all that stuff. And there's
plenty of people who have nodes

1556
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:31,440
who will be happy to set up
gateways if you have something

1557
01:40:31,440 --> 01:40:32,460
baked into the code.

1558
01:40:33,360 --> 01:40:36,690
Cameron: Right? Yeah, the
payment partner. I think it'd be

1559
01:40:36,690 --> 01:40:39,780
easy in the first hanging over
to one side. I was thinking the

1560
01:40:39,780 --> 01:40:43,560
other day, what if we offered
IPFS? Did I owe a split? Would

1561
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:46,950
they be like, hey, maybe wait a
minute, you know, they might,

1562
01:40:46,980 --> 01:40:49,560
they might, they might change
their mind.

1563
01:40:49,590 --> 01:40:51,390
Adam Curry: But the problem is,
they're still they're still

1564
01:40:51,390 --> 01:40:55,050
blocked. They're blocked on?
Yeah, there's just there's an

1565
01:40:55,050 --> 01:40:56,970
issue there. Right. Sorry. Go
ahead.

1566
01:40:58,620 --> 01:41:03,180
Alberto: Oh, yes. And? Well, I
was thinking, because you have

1567
01:41:03,180 --> 01:41:08,460
to set up a gateway, if you
could create. And you said that

1568
01:41:08,460 --> 01:41:16,530
before, a way to instantiate or
to spin up a gateway. As easy as

1569
01:41:16,950 --> 01:41:20,820
with the nodes, like a Python
script. Right, we would run a

1570
01:41:20,820 --> 01:41:23,670
gateway like this. You see the
point, like the moment you make

1571
01:41:23,670 --> 01:41:28,950
it reproducible? It's very easy
to spin up, maybe we would be

1572
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:31,350
super surprised. We would have
10 gateways.

1573
01:41:31,620 --> 01:41:35,130
Adam Curry: Yeah, I agree.
Right. I think there's a get a

1574
01:41:35,130 --> 01:41:36,180
get gateway code.

1575
01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:39,660
Cameron: Right? Yeah. Like Adam
said, He's Kansas Fiber Internet

1576
01:41:39,660 --> 01:41:41,310
at home, you could run a
gateway. Yeah,

1577
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:43,530
Dave Jones: I would, I wouldn't
run where it'd be a lot of

1578
01:41:43,530 --> 01:41:44,220
Cameron: people like that.

1579
01:41:44,700 --> 01:41:47,760
Dave Jones: It's like, if I
could control the gateway to

1580
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:50,370
such an extent, if I had a
couple of controls in place

1581
01:41:50,370 --> 01:41:53,910
where I could turn it off when I
needed to, so that it doesn't

1582
01:41:53,910 --> 01:42:00,270
kill my bandwidth during a show,
or limit your limit. And also,

1583
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:05,160
if I could say, Okay, over this
time period, let's just say 30

1584
01:42:06,510 --> 01:42:12,150
per month, go up to this amount
of usage and then stop. Like, if

1585
01:42:12,150 --> 01:42:17,430
I could do those two things.
Because if if I could use if I

1586
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:22,800
could determine like a cap, a
monthly cap of usage, then we

1587
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:26,190
could run one on Linode as well,
because we have lots of spare

1588
01:42:26,190 --> 01:42:30,330
bandwidth each month. Each
month, we use less than 25% of

1589
01:42:30,330 --> 01:42:34,590
our bandwidth. So we could, we
could also serve a gateway. But

1590
01:42:34,590 --> 01:42:36,690
then I would want to just to
make sure that we don't do

1591
01:42:36,690 --> 01:42:39,570
overages, I would want to make I
would say, Okay, we're going to

1592
01:42:39,570 --> 01:42:44,580
be able to serve, you know, four
terabytes. And then and then the

1593
01:42:44,610 --> 01:42:49,230
the node stops, or per day or
whatever, if you had those two

1594
01:42:49,230 --> 01:42:52,890
controls in place, I like it
would be very easy to dial up a

1595
01:42:52,980 --> 01:42:55,770
gateway that can be used in lots
of scenarios.

1596
01:42:57,210 --> 01:42:59,940
Cameron: Right? Yeah, I'd have
to come up with a way to kind of

1597
01:42:59,940 --> 01:43:03,390
rate the gateways to like who's
who's better than the next and

1598
01:43:03,420 --> 01:43:05,490
not to send it to a horrible
gateway.

1599
01:43:06,660 --> 01:43:08,940
Dave Jones: I believe and you
can sort of like that.

1600
01:43:10,680 --> 01:43:12,240
Cameron: Kind of like we've got
with the nodes that you know,

1601
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:14,700
the peer counts is what I'm
going off of. If you've got a

1602
01:43:14,700 --> 01:43:17,730
big red large peer count then
you're better node than the ones

1603
01:43:17,730 --> 01:43:21,300
with too because they're not
communicating very well.

1604
01:43:21,930 --> 01:43:24,390
Dave Jones: Oops. Yeah, yeah, I
agree.

1605
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:30,240
Adam Curry: How about we thank
some people Dave You have a soft

1606
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:30,630
out

1607
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:34,980
Dave Jones: it's not hard out as
a self doubt.

1608
01:43:35,070 --> 01:43:36,780
Adam Curry: self doubt. Which
means we have we have what do

1609
01:43:36,780 --> 01:43:39,060
you have like five minutes 10
minutes? You got a couple

1610
01:43:39,060 --> 01:43:39,660
minutes here.

1611
01:43:41,610 --> 01:43:44,010
Dave Jones: I'm neg I'm at
negative 20 minutes.

1612
01:43:44,190 --> 01:43:50,010
Adam Curry: Oh, okay. All right.
I'm sorry. So let's thank a few

1613
01:43:50,010 --> 01:43:53,070
people who have been live
boosting because it's been quite

1614
01:43:53,070 --> 01:43:57,000
beautiful on the booster grams.
And then we'll go through all

1615
01:43:57,000 --> 01:43:59,790
the other people we thanks so
value for value if you are new

1616
01:43:59,790 --> 01:44:03,540
to the concept whatever you're
getting out of this project out

1617
01:44:03,540 --> 01:44:06,600
of the podcast and the back to
us in time, talent or or

1618
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:09,210
treasure, we love the treasure
we'd love the booster grams,

1619
01:44:09,210 --> 01:44:11,490
particularly the message part
which is even better than the

1620
01:44:11,490 --> 01:44:14,730
money part. All of it goes on to
our node. We open up channels

1621
01:44:14,730 --> 01:44:18,390
for you whatever you need, we
are here to service the entire

1622
01:44:18,540 --> 01:44:21,990
2.0 community and thank you to
see dubs for his one on one a

1623
01:44:21,990 --> 01:44:29,070
one was just came in Mike Newman
with Wow holy crap. We need a we

1624
01:44:29,070 --> 01:44:36,600
need he has a massive striper
booth 77,777 Yikes. Yeah. Yikes

1625
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:39,840
is right. I didn't even expect
to have to use the striper

1626
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:43,560
donation but it is Friday
afternoon sat slinging in the

1627
01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:46,710
board room and y'all don't
forget to check out the it's a

1628
01:44:46,710 --> 01:44:50,010
mood music podcast. I love doing
it. You might like listening to

1629
01:44:50,010 --> 01:44:56,250
a go podcasting podcast guru
Jason. Will 1776 We'll try to

1630
01:44:56,250 --> 01:44:59,010
get back to some IPFS app
experiments after we finish our

1631
01:44:59,010 --> 01:45:02,760
V for V work Great show he says
thank you, bully steed with a tu

1632
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:08,310
tu tu with a test. We got sir
Spencer 16,969 work sucks.

1633
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:10,500
Unless we're working on
podcasting 2.0 and

1634
01:45:10,500 --> 01:45:13,590
decentralizing Music Publishing,
then we're kind of kicks ass.

1635
01:45:13,950 --> 01:45:18,000
Yes, that's true. Dred Scott
boosting John Ross. He says

1636
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:22,500
boosting work socks by John Ross
44,333 Mr. Robot boosting for

1637
01:45:22,500 --> 01:45:26,910
work socks value for value it
just works 1945 There's Mike

1638
01:45:26,910 --> 01:45:31,260
Newman boosting the value split
loving it. John Ross 7337. Nice.

1639
01:45:31,470 --> 01:45:34,710
Lead moose there. Are teat
depends on how you look at it.

1640
01:45:35,340 --> 01:45:41,430
Blueberry 17,776. Big shout out
to cotton gin and Steven B for

1641
01:45:41,430 --> 01:45:46,170
their work of this week with a
new split kit IRC bot. Hmm, who

1642
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:46,830
didn't even know

1643
01:45:46,860 --> 01:45:49,800
Dave Jones: Oh, I saw that. No,
I saw it just a minute ago. It

1644
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:53,610
came through when? When you
played the when you played the

1645
01:45:53,610 --> 01:45:55,350
song it came through in the IRC.

1646
01:45:56,100 --> 01:45:59,070
Adam Curry: Oh, God so can I
control that too? Is that

1647
01:45:59,070 --> 01:46:03,780
something that I like it shit so
undeniably lit. He says You bet.

1648
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:07,740
And there's Ben from rss.com
with 1000 SATs and he says

1649
01:46:08,010 --> 01:46:13,590
Netflix is a hosting platform.
Yes, yeah, we can put them out

1650
01:46:13,590 --> 01:46:17,190
of business to no problem. Get
this IPFS podcasting thing

1651
01:46:17,190 --> 01:46:21,480
working sir TJ the raffle come
as in with that now he's from

1652
01:46:21,480 --> 01:46:24,810
the dorsals and that banjo stuff
at the bottom of the chart

1653
01:46:24,990 --> 01:46:30,450
17,777 Spotify is a scam and a
part of me almost likes not

1654
01:46:30,450 --> 01:46:33,630
knowing stream play counts.
People listen or they don't. The

1655
01:46:33,630 --> 01:46:36,660
music grabs you or it doesn't.
It's the connection to people

1656
01:46:36,660 --> 01:46:39,600
who did good music and interact
to them with that makes it the

1657
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:44,340
magic V for V is real. It's real
life. Getting people to try

1658
01:46:44,340 --> 01:46:48,210
boosting and trying Peach 2.0
apps is the hardest part. We

1659
01:46:48,210 --> 01:46:50,790
just got to keep encouraging
people to try it. Thank you

1660
01:46:50,790 --> 01:46:53,490
brother that and you're the
people to do it. The artists

1661
01:46:53,490 --> 01:46:58,110
will do it. net net with 10,000
SATs I love your audio blog.

1662
01:47:00,090 --> 01:47:06,810
Like your net net. Dred Scott
1234560 man we got a baller

1663
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:12,480
blades on am Paula boosting for
the boost boost Q with the DJ

1664
01:47:12,480 --> 01:47:20,520
horn. Go podcasting anonymous
with satchel Richards 11,111

1665
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:26,940
Eric p p with 33,333 There's RSS
Ben again 1000 stats 100%

1666
01:47:28,350 --> 01:47:36,720
Banana, okay, whatever we got
Carolyn with Whoa. 100,020 is

1667
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:40,890
Blaze only Impala. The future is
right here with podcasting. 2.0

1668
01:47:40,890 --> 01:47:44,550
podcasters can put out a podcast
for themselves and succeed with

1669
01:47:44,550 --> 01:47:48,630
the V four V model. And there's
Ben again with 1000 SATs bad

1670
01:47:48,630 --> 01:47:51,960
sign is right 19 People turned
tuned into ring the bell Oh,

1671
01:47:51,960 --> 01:47:57,960
he's talking about the podcast
one. And there's Sir Brian of

1672
01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:03,750
London 71,948 a massive striper
Israeli boost. jiggle the

1673
01:48:03,750 --> 01:48:07,140
handle. I'll be in Rosarito,
Mexico a short drive from San

1674
01:48:07,140 --> 01:48:10,350
Diego the 20th through the 30th
September if anyone wants to say

1675
01:48:10,350 --> 01:48:15,210
hi. Okay, all right. Hey, guess
he's doing the only fans meet

1676
01:48:15,210 --> 01:48:20,820
up. Cotton Gin with 3333 Aces. I
forgot to let mom we did not not

1677
01:48:20,820 --> 01:48:26,250
sure what happened but it
finally did work. And that is

1678
01:48:26,250 --> 01:48:29,250
it. Dave What do you have on
your Bookstagram list and on the

1679
01:48:29,250 --> 01:48:30,090
PayPals

1680
01:48:30,780 --> 01:48:35,370
Dave Jones: see servos at this
date have an air horn but I do

1681
01:48:35,370 --> 01:48:41,700
not have an air horn button. I
don't know. I've got lots of

1682
01:48:41,700 --> 01:48:44,910
weird stuff, but I do not. Stop
it. You're making everybody

1683
01:48:44,910 --> 01:48:48,930
crazy. We should just do a show
like this. Hi, I'm Adam curry.

1684
01:48:49,650 --> 01:48:54,990
That this is not gonna work.
This is this dueling horrible

1685
01:48:54,990 --> 01:49:00,480
things. It's not gonna happen.
Oscar Oscar. Oscar marry $200

1686
01:49:01,290 --> 01:49:02,610
Thank you Oscar through the Pay
Pal.

1687
01:49:02,640 --> 01:49:06,390
Adam Curry: Yay. Okay,

1688
01:49:06,420 --> 01:49:07,350
Dave Jones: much appreciated.

1689
01:49:08,430 --> 01:49:11,670
Adam Curry: Was that big piece
of paper roll up?

1690
01:49:11,670 --> 01:49:13,590
Dave Jones: Yeah, these are
these are large sheets of paper.

1691
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:18,600
Thank you Oscar. Really
appreciate that. Nico klein $10

1692
01:49:19,710 --> 01:49:27,750
No note thank you, Nico. See who
got Charles say a sailor is S E

1693
01:49:27,750 --> 01:49:28,560
yle

1694
01:49:28,590 --> 01:49:30,750
Adam Curry: we think is saili
Sounds right.

1695
01:49:31,110 --> 01:49:37,620
Dave Jones: Yeah. $10 Thank you
Joe. No note there we get Travis

1696
01:49:37,620 --> 01:49:43,320
halls since seven $7.17 He says
there's a donation only station

1697
01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:47,940
in San Francisco. So my fm.com
that could possibly fit your

1698
01:49:47,940 --> 01:49:51,870
amazing live stream radio garden
app is actually how I found the

1699
01:49:51,870 --> 01:49:53,460
in a stream thank you for all
you do.

1700
01:49:53,849 --> 01:49:57,359
Adam Curry: Interesting. No
contact them. Let them know. Let

1701
01:49:57,359 --> 01:49:57,869
them know we're out.

1702
01:49:59,490 --> 01:50:03,480
Dave Jones: See we got Some
booths we got. Oh, LT ng store

1703
01:50:03,480 --> 01:50:10,890
that Sam means. So Sam from
wavelength 934 SATs through

1704
01:50:10,890 --> 01:50:14,340
fountaining said WaveLight. Top
40 is based on SATs and time

1705
01:50:14,340 --> 01:50:15,420
splits are coming.

1706
01:50:15,749 --> 01:50:19,469
Adam Curry: Nice. And by the
way, nice interview on the pod

1707
01:50:19,469 --> 01:50:24,299
news weekly review with Sam and
also with Ainsley Costello

1708
01:50:24,329 --> 01:50:29,069
definitely worth listening to.
Okay. Great. I listened to both

1709
01:50:29,069 --> 01:50:30,959
of them last night in bed. It
was fantastic.

1710
01:50:31,590 --> 01:50:35,790
Dave Jones: In typical samsat
the fashion of millions of of

1711
01:50:36,060 --> 01:50:40,830
booths. What I say tests pod
fans, various configurations.

1712
01:50:40,830 --> 01:50:41,670
Thank you, Sam. Thank

1713
01:50:41,670 --> 01:50:43,650
Adam Curry: you, Sam. Appreciate
it by

1714
01:50:44,190 --> 01:50:47,790
Dave Jones: Jean been a big row
of ducks. 2222 says b&h would

1715
01:50:47,790 --> 01:50:51,330
likely just replace it for you,
Dave. Then they did. They did.

1716
01:50:51,360 --> 01:50:54,750
They did. They didn't They not
only replaced it. They upgraded

1717
01:50:54,750 --> 01:50:56,910
it to expedited replacement for
free.

1718
01:50:57,390 --> 01:50:59,730
Adam Curry: They know who you
are. They know they know what

1719
01:50:59,730 --> 01:51:01,590
side their bread is buttered.

1720
01:51:03,120 --> 01:51:06,480
Dave Jones: Anonymous podcast
guru user 1200 SATs a whole

1721
01:51:06,480 --> 01:51:10,980
bunch of times. Thank you
anonymous podcast guru user. see

1722
01:51:10,980 --> 01:51:15,090
who we got? Jean been again? 20
to 22 through cast ematic says

1723
01:51:15,090 --> 01:51:19,410
so. Can the top 100 chart also
be a playlist that I can

1724
01:51:19,410 --> 01:51:21,450
subscribe to?

1725
01:51:22,170 --> 01:51:26,130
Adam Curry: That is nice. Yeah.
Nice idea. Yeah. Well, the whole

1726
01:51:26,130 --> 01:51:30,390
idea is exportable. I saw it on
lm beach.com. And I said, David,

1727
01:51:30,390 --> 01:51:33,780
you already make an API so that
Stephen could import that didn't

1728
01:51:33,780 --> 01:51:39,810
know just scraping the HTML. The
poor man's API, but it works.

1729
01:51:40,440 --> 01:51:42,510
Dave Jones: It would let me find
new music and keep up with

1730
01:51:42,510 --> 01:51:44,970
what's trending maybe something
related to the music playlist

1731
01:51:44,970 --> 01:51:49,470
example at Yes, that is that is
a fantastic idea that I will do

1732
01:51:49,470 --> 01:51:52,560
this. Okay. So as soon as the
chart is finished, I will make

1733
01:51:52,560 --> 01:51:56,040
also a downloadable version of
it that conforms to the list

1734
01:51:56,040 --> 01:51:56,520
medium.

1735
01:51:57,090 --> 01:51:58,980
Adam Curry: Oh, nice idea.

1736
01:51:58,980 --> 01:52:02,880
Dave Jones: I like Yeah, and so
then an app can just read the

1737
01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:06,420
feed suck in all the and just
suck it in as a playlist. This

1738
01:52:06,900 --> 01:52:14,040
great idea GP. Excellent. Natty
48. Sir Brian of London. See no

1739
01:52:14,040 --> 01:52:21,060
aces. Gravity is making me Get
down. Get down, Brian. Thank you

1740
01:52:21,060 --> 01:52:27,210
for that. Chat. F no note 3333
seed said that a couple of

1741
01:52:27,210 --> 01:52:33,420
times. Big last. Big last. I
don't know the sexual Richard

1742
01:52:33,420 --> 01:52:37,650
11111 There Fountas is I can't
get any of Adams podcast while

1743
01:52:37,650 --> 01:52:41,100
running my VPN? Probably the
IPFS thing I would think.

1744
01:52:41,730 --> 01:52:47,550
Adam Curry: Yeah, well, VPNs I
mean, key word VPN. It messes

1745
01:52:47,550 --> 01:52:50,340
every day. Correct? Yeah. Can
mess kinds of stuff up. Yeah.

1746
01:52:50,940 --> 01:52:53,610
Dave Jones: You don't know what
you're gonna get? Joelle w 1111.

1747
01:52:53,610 --> 01:52:57,960
Sasha Richard. Thank you. Joel
for fountain note. Gene Everett

1748
01:52:58,890 --> 01:53:06,150
roadex 2222 through fountain
uses boost. Boost. Nicholas B

1749
01:53:06,150 --> 01:53:12,330
58. A big road dogs. 22,222
SATs. Wow. You found any niece's

1750
01:53:12,330 --> 01:53:13,920
birthday boosts?

1751
01:53:14,370 --> 01:53:19,560
Adam Curry: I'll give you a
little cup Thank you,

1752
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:23,790
Dave Jones: Franco 10,000 Sastra
Casta Matic No, no thank you,

1753
01:53:23,790 --> 01:53:29,160
Franco appreciate that buddy.
Sam Sethi at 503 through pod

1754
01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:34,320
fans. Thank you, Sam. Dobby das
15,000 SATs I'm getting Dobby

1755
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:37,680
das on the show. not next week
but the week after he's

1756
01:53:38,370 --> 01:53:39,270
Adam Curry: RSS blue.

1757
01:53:39,810 --> 01:53:43,740
Dave Jones: Yep, that's right
cool. Devadasi found in 15,000

1758
01:53:43,740 --> 01:53:46,200
SAS he says after an hour of
unsuccessful attempts I have

1759
01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:49,170
finally gotten my Satoshis out
of breeze and into your wallet

1760
01:53:49,170 --> 01:53:49,830
so let's go

1761
01:53:51,690 --> 01:53:54,000
Adam Curry: I know I'm supposed
to have a chat with Roy today

1762
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:57,390
he's he's sort of resurfaced
always plan late landed very

1763
01:53:57,390 --> 01:54:00,030
late. So we're going to talk
tomorrow but I need desperately

1764
01:54:00,030 --> 01:54:02,340
need to get I need to get
briefed on the value times blitz

1765
01:54:02,340 --> 01:54:03,960
man, we've got to get this stuff
upgraded.

1766
01:54:04,679 --> 01:54:08,219
Dave Jones: Oh, sweet. Yeah.
Billy Bones 3438 No note thank

1767
01:54:08,219 --> 01:54:10,469
you Billy Bones and the
delimiter comic strip blogger

1768
01:54:10,469 --> 01:54:15,239
30 3015. Through fountain he
says howdy podcast index LLC

1769
01:54:15,239 --> 01:54:20,009
team David Adam. I'd like to
recommend a podcast called curry

1770
01:54:20,009 --> 01:54:24,029
and the keeper. Oh very to what
the name might suggest. It's not

1771
01:54:24,029 --> 01:54:29,639
about Indian spicy food.
Instead, it follows instead it

1772
01:54:29,639 --> 01:54:38,789
follows Adam curry in his native
born American life okay, as they

1773
01:54:38,789 --> 01:54:42,719
navigate life in a vibrant Texas
City, you can listen to the

1774
01:54:42,719 --> 01:54:48,359
podcast at WWW dot Currey and
the keeper.com Yo CSB.

1775
01:54:48,420 --> 01:54:51,570
Adam Curry: Well thank you,
brother and remember k TLD live

1776
01:54:51,570 --> 01:54:52,140
down

1777
01:54:56,820 --> 01:54:59,940
Dave Jones: monthlies. I forgot
we got out of here last week and

1778
01:54:59,940 --> 01:55:03,330
uh forgot to do the monthlies oh
so double ups I've got double

1779
01:55:03,330 --> 01:55:12,180
have got. Emilio Kenna Molina $4
Jeremy new $5 pod verse, boys

1780
01:55:12,180 --> 01:55:19,380
over there $50 Basil Philip $25
Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch down at

1781
01:55:19,380 --> 01:55:26,700
$10 Christopher horrible Eric
$10 Terry killer $5 Jeremy Kevin

1782
01:55:26,700 --> 01:55:31,680
all $10 Chris cow and $5 Paul
Saltzman has a long list. Yeah

1783
01:55:31,710 --> 01:55:37,380
$22.22 Yep. Derek J Vickery.
$21. Thank you Derrick. Damon

1784
01:55:37,380 --> 01:55:44,160
cast Jack $15 Jeremy Garrett's
$5 zener zoom. Trevor's. You

1785
01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:49,530
know, we're limited $5 Paul
Erskine $11.14 Michael Goggin $5

1786
01:55:49,530 --> 01:55:54,990
Charles current $5 James
Sullivan $10 Sean McCune $20

1787
01:55:55,440 --> 01:56:01,440
Cohen glotzbach $5 Christopher
Raymer $10 Jordan Dunnville $10

1788
01:56:01,470 --> 01:56:09,000
Michael Kimmerer $5.33 dribs got
$15 Pedro gonna calvess $5

1789
01:56:09,030 --> 01:56:10,890
Cameron Rose $25

1790
01:56:11,009 --> 01:56:14,429
Adam Curry: Scotch. These are
great. are so kind really

1791
01:56:14,429 --> 01:56:15,329
fantastic.

1792
01:56:15,569 --> 01:56:18,119
Dave Jones: Because we were out
so long, it's almost the entire

1793
01:56:18,329 --> 01:56:26,429
monthly subscribers in one show.
Chad Farrow $20.22. Kevin Bay

1794
01:56:26,579 --> 01:56:29,939
$3. From the endowment. You
know, the Kevin Bacon?

1795
01:56:30,270 --> 01:56:33,030
Adam Curry: Yes. Yes, the
endowment? Sure. Sure. Mark

1796
01:56:33,030 --> 01:56:33,690
Graham and

1797
01:56:33,690 --> 01:56:38,010
Dave Jones: Martin lindskog both
gave $1 each. Thank you, Brenda,

1798
01:56:38,010 --> 01:56:41,880
never a pot page. $25. And
that's our group.

1799
01:56:42,150 --> 01:56:45,630
Adam Curry: Wow, what a great
group. Thank you all so much.

1800
01:56:46,350 --> 01:56:49,350
Really, really appreciate you
really appreciate that.

1801
01:56:49,890 --> 01:56:52,650
Dave Jones: I feel like my paper
crumble is overpowered now with

1802
01:56:52,650 --> 01:56:54,180
this new these new preamps

1803
01:56:55,650 --> 01:56:58,680
Adam Curry: actually, it's, it's
okay. It's powerful. It's very

1804
01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:02,850
powerful. It it gives you a
feeling of power somehow I like

1805
01:57:02,850 --> 01:57:04,050
it a lot. Thank you. Look, I'm

1806
01:57:04,050 --> 01:57:05,010
Dave Jones: dominating the show.

1807
01:57:05,730 --> 01:57:08,880
Adam Curry: Thank you all so
much for supporting podcasting

1808
01:57:08,880 --> 01:57:12,330
2.0 podcast index. It goes
directly towards running all the

1809
01:57:12,330 --> 01:57:15,990
infrastructure. And thank you,
of course, everyone who provides

1810
01:57:16,020 --> 01:57:18,570
a time and talent as well you
know who you are a lot of them

1811
01:57:18,570 --> 01:57:21,120
in the in the chat room and a
lot of listening. A lot of you

1812
01:57:21,120 --> 01:57:22,890
are listening from around the
world. We're doing amazing

1813
01:57:22,890 --> 01:57:27,210
things. I'm very, very, I'm just
I'm just so humbled by what is

1814
01:57:27,210 --> 01:57:30,540
happening here. And special
thanks to our guests, Cameron

1815
01:57:30,540 --> 01:57:33,030
and Alberto for being here
today. And for all the work you

1816
01:57:33,030 --> 01:57:36,780
guys are doing on IPFS
podcasting, and it's really

1817
01:57:36,780 --> 01:57:39,150
appreciated. And I think this is
going to move the needle and

1818
01:57:39,150 --> 01:57:42,510
especially Umberto I love the I
love your insight coming from a

1819
01:57:42,510 --> 01:57:45,870
holster how you just look at
that from I think you might have

1820
01:57:45,870 --> 01:57:47,610
rattled a few people with this
today.

1821
01:57:49,140 --> 01:57:50,010
Alberto: I hope not.

1822
01:57:52,110 --> 01:57:53,970
Adam Curry: What do you mean
that we like it when you rattle

1823
01:57:53,970 --> 01:57:58,530
people? That's good. That is
good. It's good. Anything else?

1824
01:57:58,530 --> 01:58:03,990
Anyone else? For the final final
go round here at the table? Damn

1825
01:58:03,990 --> 01:58:04,230
good.

1826
01:58:04,349 --> 01:58:07,829
Cameron: Just. Yeah, just
Thanks, Adam, for being the

1827
01:58:07,829 --> 01:58:11,939
master scissor guy. When you
talked about running booths here

1828
01:58:11,939 --> 01:58:12,899
and while I was nervous to

1829
01:58:14,910 --> 01:58:17,340
Dave Jones: when when Adam
starts a new show, everybody

1830
01:58:17,340 --> 01:58:17,910
gets nervous.

1831
01:58:20,670 --> 01:58:23,430
Adam Curry: It somehow it all
just kind of works. It's really

1832
01:58:23,430 --> 01:58:27,690
phenomenal. Thank you all very
much, Dave. Have a great weekend

1833
01:58:27,690 --> 01:58:30,870
brother. That made you do Okay,
everybody in the chat room.

1834
01:58:31,260 --> 01:58:34,710
Cameron Oberto, thank you all
very much. And tune in next week

1835
01:58:34,710 --> 01:58:37,800
for another board meeting of
podcasting. 2.0 We'll see you

1836
01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:38,040
then.

1837
01:58:54,180 --> 01:58:58,740
Unknown: You have been listening
to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast

1838
01:58:58,740 --> 01:59:05,520
index.org For more information,
podcast. Boosting is loving