Episode 141: Boosting is Loving

0:00 Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for July 14 2023, episode 141 boosting his love. Well, hello everybody once again, it's time for your weekly board meeting podcasting. 2.0 That's right, everything happening in podcast index.org all about the namespace. We got some hot talk for you. And of course, all the discussions, the arguments and the love chatter from podcast index dot social. It is the only boardroom with music as a feature. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who will ignore your block tag if you're nasty. Say hello to my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. Mr. Jones, if you're nasty if you're nasty, that's right. If you're nasty. Hello, Dave.

0:47 Dave Jones: Have you seen this Zelinsky meme that's everywhere. You must Adam Curry: be this tall to start world war three. Dave Jones: The funny thing about this thing is not it's not really the Zelinsky to me. It's it's the is it. All the elite I just realized maybe I'm late to the party. But all the elites, they do this weird thing where they where they stand and face each other and hold hands and austerity. Adam Curry: And he says there are the two ladies. Dave Jones: Ladies, and then in that other picture. It's McCrone and Zelinsky stay in the same exact posting, they're holding hands staring each other's Adam Curry: repeat all these people are creepy. They are Dave Jones: creepy in real life, Adam Curry: and that and that whole NATO Summit, that's just an arm sales conference. Okay, so can we sell some more stuff?

1:38 All right, we'll figure it out. Dave Jones: Brought to you by Lockheed Martin. That's Adam Curry: right. How you doing, brother? Dave Jones: I'm good. I'm good, Adam Curry: man. Very good. I always love it when it's just you and me. I mean, I like having guests. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, just the two of us. Don't get me wrong. And of course, we have a chat room. Hello, chat room. Chat Room was there as we are live. Oh, of course. I forgot you are streaming live on on your video thing. Dave Jones: So you're not a distraction to me. I swear. It's Adam Curry: your only fans. I know. It's your only fans. Dave Jones: I will be taking requests boosting your request.

2:19 Goodness Adam Curry: gracious. Well, right off the bat. We've had a couple of nice pre boosts, which I think we should thank people for just because I mean, it's lovely. It's lovely when this happens. Hello anonymous. 50,000 SATs, sending this to you guys because I can't figure out how to move my SATs with I'll be back on chain one day. I'll figure this all out until then go podcasting. Dave Jones: I hope you never figure it out. Adam Curry: And we did a pre show which we always do. And we got a lot of boost for the pre show people love the pre show Dave Jones: is because of our amazing do it. Our voices blend seamlessly together in a rush. Vocal vocal harmonies. It's velvet.

3:01 Adam Curry: It's just pure velvet. Dave Jones: It is that's what they've always called it. They've always called me the velvet hammer, you know? Adam Curry: Oh man, hey. Okay, I'll start. I'll start with my music show. I'm getting ramped up, getting ramped up. I'm getting amped up. I have a name. I've decided on the name. It's kind of a little bit something that came from the last show. Dave Jones: I hadn't had names to suggest or I don't know Adam Curry: I'm not I'm loosey goosey. What names do you have? Dave Jones: He does a terrible thing to ask you. Adam Curry: But am I for you never never Dave Jones: know the answer is no, no, no, no. Go ahead. What do you thought about lightning round?

3:43 Adam Curry: Oh, I like that. Now. Did you see if there was a domain name available for that? No, of course not. Well, let me check. Okay, lightning, I like lightning round. Although it does kind of suggest something fast and short stuff. True. True. True. So I could register lightning round.com Dave Jones: I just wanted to get that on the board before I hear your your actual Adam Curry: I'd like it. I like it on the board. I'd like it. Okay, so let me see under can I register this? Let me see. Let me see what's available. Now it's not available. Dave Jones: Okay, well, it's off the table. Okay, off the board. I put I retract it. Adam Curry: I was thinking you know what, what would be the most clear because basically I'm going to be playing tracks.

4:29 tracks that are value for value enabled. I'm sure as as the show progresses, there'll be more information I mean, I'll talk some crap and backstory and stuff when I can and maybe we'll have an artist on you know from time to time or have someone do a quick interview. I don't know I mean, I'm leaving it open but the the main thing is to be playing music. And I just keep coming back to booster Grand Ball. Dave Jones: Booster. Grand Ball is a great name. Adam Curry: I mean, and I have the domain name it just feels right. It's exactly what the show is. It's you know, we want people boosting booster grams, we want it to be a ball to know a musical ball, but just have a ball, bring your ball, Dave Jones: ball and go home when it's over, hey, don't Adam Curry: take that ball and go home. So now what I'm looking for now, is I need some imaging. Also, there's so much already available for boosts. And for booster grams, you know, we have a lot of got a lot of that kind of stuff. When I'm looking for is a show opener, anybody want to give that a stab? It doesn't have to be one set show opener, I will put you in the value block. So I'm looking for jingles. I'm looking for positioning music stuff, whatever it is. Because I can I can make it myself but why bother when other people be happy to do it?

5:56 Dave Jones: And, and you and they have a different perspective that you may not have which always comes through Adam Curry: like totally. So this is the stuff that I had for daily stores code in its most recent iteration. That's not That's not that one. Where's my opener? Oh, this is the one opener here we go this one sysadmins ensuring five nines uptime 21st century of radios live on noise that kind of stuff or this kind of stuff you know anything I can transition between songs that kind of stuff I'm looking for. And I'm I could I could call Jeff Smith and say make something for me. But I want it to be a much more community thing. So I want to and I want to have lots of stuff when I have lots of options. So if anyone's interested send it to me. I would highly appreciate that.

6:56 Dave Jones: No are you wanting per episode art? Adam Curry: Wow, I mean if possible, that's beautiful. But that's you know if that's it would require me doing it live and I'm not I want to do it live and live as as much as possible. I haven't selected a day yet. But maybe it's something I do right after this show on a Friday since I'm already all jacked up. Dave Jones: Oh, okay. Oh wait so um, so you you're were you planning to start this new podcast with without live and then go to live lighter? Is that what I'm hearing? Are you going to do live from the beginning I was Adam Curry: I was hoping to do it live from the beginning actually thought that would be kind of cool. Dave Jones: Yeah, cuz that's I mean that's that's your that's your style.

7:39 Adam Curry: See, dubs is saying it's not in the split that I do something wrong. I just want understand. Did we do something wrong? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know when people say that I get worried. You know? What's not we don't know what we don't know what it means. Don't just say it. Don't just do that to me. Yeah, so and I want to get started pretty soon I got the beta the fountain beta that has the references so yeah, the song show up at WC net. Are you on? Dave Jones: Yeah, Mom got it. Yeah, minute I've been I've been playing with it. Yeah. Adam Curry: Okay, so how why is this beta? Dave Jones: How wide is it? Yeah, how would you mean Adam Curry: well, I mean, how boost the boost bot is it's I don't know if it's in the white book. How widely distributed is the beta is my question.

8:27 Dave Jones: Oh, I'd I don't know. Adam Curry: The boost bot is most fountain boost but I need a different boost bot in there. Okay, well, I can't do that now. Dave Jones: We'll see. That's it Sam a note this morning acid asking to get because I still can't get in my pod fans. And Adam Curry: you can't get an either. Yeah, it's it's like the two guys who really needs to be in there. Definitely need to be in that in that thing. Well, Dave Jones: I feel I feel so in order to in order to launch your podcast you I mean, you really need that you need pod fans needs to be on the online I mean, because we need to be able to because that's one day. So we have curio caster fountain, pod fans and pod friend. Those Those for support. Support the value times split and then podcasts Guru is coming. So and is pod verse. Is that still in beta? Do we know? For the pod? For the for the vape? I Adam Curry: don't know. I don't know. I'm also Mitch was here also see dubs are saying I'm fountain to live block says it's ended. Well, that's fountains problem because I'm live. My life block says it's good to go. I don't understand any of what's going on.

9:40 Dave Jones: This is a great endorsement. I'm for all this. Adam Curry: Well, I'm sorry. scissoring time you know, but I'm just worried that I'm not doing the split kid right, because I'm not sure what is in charge of what? I guess let me check. I mean, Dave Jones: oh, yeah, we're live. It says punchy. I'm looking at the feed right now where it says we're live. Adam Curry: Right then Honestly I don't have the boost the boost bot I don't have that what is the what is the boost bots? Dave Jones: Oh bless you Steven do you put podcast chat tag in there is always one step ahead brother. Adam Curry: Did you do something good? Dave Jones: Yeah, I put the podcast the new unform alized podcast chat tag. Adam Curry: Ru Yes, yes, I know that I knew that wasn't okay with IRC right the boost bot so the boost bot I have to add this okay. All right. Oh ma second let's get scissoring tireless the weather reminds We'll do it live Hold on a second. So episode I'm gonna I'm gonna change will this work? Or will people have to reload their? They'll have to reload their feed, won't they?

10:44 Dave Jones: I don't even know what you're doing. Okay, Adam Curry: I'm adding in because someone's complaining that the boost bot is not is not in this in the live split. To see dogs is complaining see dogs is complaining. So I guess then it doesn't show up in the in the chat. Does that make sense? Dave Jones: I don't know. Try it. Okay. There's only one way only one Adam Curry: way to find out. Okay, so I put the boost bot in there for 1% of the split. Okay, publish feed. And there we go. So hopefully that works. I don't know. Dave Jones: If we see all if we see all listeners drop off at the same time.

11:25 Adam Curry: Well, what everyone needs to do now is boost. If you know I'm saying this is Hey everybody. Let's test the boost bot. Well go. Dave Jones: It's not a great test for me because I wasn't in there. So I guess I'm a that's not an accurate test. But let me let me go do it real quick. No. Where are you? Trying to boost bot Adam Curry: okay. I don't know what the boost boost boost BOD is the thing that I understand Dave Jones: to boost the Akira casting. Adam Curry: Okay, and then what is what is supposed to happen? It's mostly loose but should get it right. But then the boost bot will also show up in the IRC chat. This is excusing. Dave Jones: Yeah, okay. Yeah, this bus should show up because that's what this one is. Normally it will let me get into Adam Curry: like got your boost. Okay, yeah, got 123 does not show up in did not show up in the yo boost in the Mossad.

12:18 Dave Jones: And I gotta just an essay. 1234 Hopefully it goes to this book. But probably not. Yeah, Adam Curry: I have no idea. Okay, well, anyways, this is great. I noticed. Oh, there we go. Yeah, that works. There you go. Eric P P. Okay. Booth spot is working. All right. All right. See, dubs not allowed to talk anymore for the rest of the show? distracting me Stop it. Just stop it. Stop it. So yeah, so I'm really excited. As soon as I have some imaging stuff. And with that, I mean, like the sound sound imaging, I'm gonna get started. And I want to do it live. Because I think that'll be the most exciting and maybe we can even take some requests, you know, stuff like that. I'm going to start live, and we'll see where it goes. And that means I probably won't have a set schedule in the beginning. Because, you know, I already have no days left in the week. So I got to figure out when when to do that. But the release of it will be on the same day, if that makes any sense. So when when we go live will be one thing will but when when it releases will be a second thing.

13:28 And Dave Jones: the the request, the the request part is really interesting. I mean, that we could have a lot of fun with that. Yeah, Adam Curry: yeah. I mean, I want I want people to boost the requests. And, Dave Jones: yeah, like, we could, like it should be sort of structured data instead of just a text, hey, I want blah, blah, blah. Adam Curry: Doesn't why? Dave Jones: Well, cuz it would be because it would be a kind of fun experiment. So if you say, oh, okay, Adam Curry: I have an idea already. I got an idea. Okay. All right. It would be phenomenal. If people could go into a webpage. I'm gonna say podcast index, or no, how about this ln beats? Lm beats is a great way to do it. So you go into LM beats, you find the music you want. And from there, you should be able to have a request boost form. Yes, that sends it to me. And then I can import it right away into the split kit. Maybe it's a part of the split kit.

14:27 Dave Jones: Yeah, that I think that's that's perfect. So you go into Yes, you can go into your app, and you can go find the podcast. You want Adam Curry: Steven B's already. I can make that happen in the split cut. Yes, the split kick can actually can actually shave me while I'm doing the show. The kid can feed my dog can drive me to work. The split kid can do everything. It's just a little complicated how it works. Dave Jones: Yeah, well, it's fine, but it's fine. Adam Curry: It's fine. I love it. No, this is good. Okay, so that's all fine. It'd be the split kit you could have a request to A request thing, then and then I can just say okay, and then what I need Steven is I need to be able to preview the track when it comes through so it'll be structured so it'll be in the interface and you'd be able to preview the track and then add it to the to the rundown. So then when I when I play it, I can I can hit the timestamp and it runs that would be that would be beautiful.

15:25 Dave Jones: I'm thinking about something here in the Adam Curry: work coming up with me we're building tools here man this is great. I love it. Dave Jones: I'm having a thought but I need I'm looking at the spec right now. So you have remote feed Gu ID and remote item Gu ID I wonder if those could be repurposed for this use who say sometimes a payment is fed to a robot so if you had as if you have that then you could have the action? No, no. Okay, what's the action alright, if the action is request so let's just say the action is boost stream or auto currently means you're available off right we can have we have another action call request.

16:10 Adam Curry: Oh man. Yeah, now we're talking I love it in Dave Jones: the remote item remote guid would be interpreted as the thing being requested, not not a split. Okay. Do you catch my meaning? Adam Curry: Steven B. And Nathan Gee, I don't want people to think it's a metal only cuz I'm gonna play all kinds of stuff so probably not, you know. Interestingly enough, when I think of booster gram ball, I think of a different song. Do you know what song I'm thinking of? Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, yeah, like Adam Curry: this one. Roger Glover. Ronnie do Ronnie James Dio love is all clack you know the song? Yeah, yes, for sure.

17:05 Understand, yeah. Play the hook let me fast forward some hours the hook. There we go. The Butterfly. Butterfly ball. Yeah, that's it. Did Dave Jones: you see this? Ronnie James, do you? Adam Curry: Yeah. Was Roger Glover? Really? Yeah. You didn't know that? Dave Jones: No, I had no idea that was do Oh, yeah. Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, that's that was that's what makes the song not gay. I mean, that in the ad sense of gay.

17:50 Dave Jones: Thought about that? Yeah. Adam Curry: Hey, man, that sounds no good, right. Hey, man. It's do brother. Oh, I'm sorry. Back off. I'm sorry. I made a mistake. Dave Jones: Yeah, like, AC DC. Big. She's got big balls. Yes. Agreed. gaggle pod. Adam Curry: Okay, so you'll add that to the spec, Stephen B will build it will be ready by Thursday. Dave Jones: We should do Stephen B will be ready this afternoon. I will get rid of not let me right. Actually. Adam Curry: That's cool. All right. Um, we're gonna spawn something. So I am so excited about this. I just want to reiterate. And I've written my article for Bitcoin magazine.

18:35 They actually already wrote that. Yeah, they actually ping me. They said, Hey, man, we're excited about your article. Oh, my God, that never happens. Oh. So I ran it through chat. GPT and I think it's good now. No, you didn't I sure did. I sure did to tighten this up and did a pretty good job actually. Yeah, yeah. But but the final phase is the Tina wash. So I'm going to send it to Tina. Because that's what she you know, Dave Jones: wish you knew what she's gonna do today. What Adam Curry: is this chat GPT crap. Right away. This is horrible. So but in your team, that's what she used to do for a living. I mean, she's a pro so she'll, she'll rewrite rewrite stuff and put it all in there in the right context. I got about 650 words. And let me see. Where is it here? Now I can actually tell you, where is it? Article, podcast, podcasting, 2.0 music and value for value in the ever evolving landscape of podcasting, a groundbreaking movement known as podcasting.

19:38 2.0 has emerged, spearheaded by the geniuses Adam curry. Dave Jones doesn't say that, but I thought it was. This initiative was born out of the need to protect and extend podcasting in the face of challenges posed by major platforms like apple. There's a little bit of history there. And then I'm talking about real time payments. I'm kind of reiterating some stuff where Some music stuff would I put that in here? Anyway, and I'm trying to simplify it. Oh yeah. The system has the ability to switch to different payment wallets and splits within the podcast automatically redirect payments to the owner of a piece of content using the podcast primarily used for music played in a podcast. Artists are now seeing direct payments from podcast listeners often surpassing payouts from streaming services by several magnitudes. recording artists whose music is not owned by a label or publisher and not licensed to antiquated agencies, such as ASCAP BMI, are now able to self host or use a specific hosting provider such as wave lake.com, music side project.com or dystopia.com. To make the music available to listeners using V for V enabled apps, or podcasters, to include them in their shows. Now freed from outdated ownership and licensing structures. podcasters can freely share the value of music in their shows, while ensuring the artists received the value sent back by their listeners, igniting an exciting way for music lovers to discover music outside of big tech entertainment algorithms and agendas Bucha Daddy

21:09 Dave Jones: that I like it. Okay, thank you. Thank you. This is her hooky at the bear. Adam Curry: There's a lot of words there. But we'll work on it. So yeah. And it really will ignite a whole new category of and this will be good for everybody. It's going to be good for hosting companies, it's going to be good for apps, it's going to be everybody's going to benefit because there will be an entirely new generation of podcasters coming on board. And just think college radio. You know, these were not people who could talk for an hour had something to say for an hour, or felt that they were interesting enough to do anything for an hour. But when it's Hey, ma'am, I'm Pete. Here's some cool tunes. I really liked man listen to this boom. That opens up possibilities for a whole new category of podcasting, which has just not existed.

22:06 Dave Jones: Agreed? Yes. Agreed. Totally. I mean, the so Alex said this, that we shouldn't be building this into the payment protocol. I agree with that. That's I'm sorry, we shouldn't want like the whole requests thing. They shouldn't be in the protocol for the payments in a I agree with that. I'm thinking more along the lines like it shouldn't be baked you you're mixing stuff together so you know we had the actions or like boost stream or auto Yeah, which those makes it these are all payment related functions. Adam Curry: Oh, I see. I see what you're saying. Yeah, okay. Yeah, Dave Jones: yeah, you're you're crossing the streams which is and I agree with that. Like I'm thinking more along the lines of something that's like you know, so like the request itself or the message itself would contain this structured data so I don't know what we'll figure out it will work yeah will work I mean, just make it makes ballin but Adam Curry: it's a it's a board meeting with just spit ball and Baby baby knows with no one's moved to motion we're all good.

23:13 Take I don't have a PowerPoint. So yeah, I hope to have that going within a week or so. As soon as I have some some imaging and some booster gram balls to Adam gareeb Dave Jones: The see that you still blown my mind that as you do. I never knew that. Like, like, because I always thought that song was super stupid. Adam Curry: That's why I got you to laugh for like a real belly laugh for a moment there when I said it to you. Yeah. Dave Jones: The Yes. I think it's general it's just time to start putting all the pieces together. Because we've got tons of pieces now. And it's time to start kind of wiring them up.

24:01 Yes, like Because? Because I went back started working a little bit on on MK Ultra today. I didn't have much didn't have much time today. But I started I want to get my hits. I've been in dashboard mode for a while. Adam Curry: Yeah. By the way, can I if I can just say go ahead go to the dashboard for the podcast index. I've actually used it a couple of times successfully now to help people. There was one that I screwed up royally. That was the lovely lady who who had four shows and then Carolyn was telling me what to delete and it was the wrong ones believe me. I deleted the wrong ones. I'm sure of it. Yeah, Dave Jones: I went back there and fixed it. Yeah, Adam Curry: that was that was that was quite a nightmare. She had all different feeds and some were right and some were wrong.

24:51 And she had multiple entries that one I I'm sorry, I just lost it on that one. Dave Jones: Well, I mean, some of the some of those are so and plus you are her writing style was so difficult to understand. Yeah, we're Adam Curry: not native English speaker, I thought, right? Sure she's South American or something. Dave Jones: Those are the instances where you're like, Nancy, Brenda do the Dashboard. Once you probably get into the Yeah, Adam Curry: and I appreciate that. But I've had people say, you know, delete refresh, a good refresh to successful refresh or like, Hey, how come my show hasn't updated? You go look, last entry 2021? Well, you know, when, you know, when you don't update, then we kind of push it down to the bottom of the list.

25:32 And so you know, I won't kick you manually now. Is that okay? That's cool. That makes sense. And I did it. And that happened right away. It was it was, it was nice. It was it was a beautiful moment, beautiful moment, he Dave Jones: would tell me what's Alright, since we're on dashboard talk, tell me what's missing, or what you think you still need. Before before I get away from dashboard and get back to MK Ultra. Adam Curry: So the, one of the main and this was the thing that confused me, where I think the merge function, I haven't quite had an opportunity to use that yet. But there's people who will. So here's, it's like, Okay, here's my, here's my feed.

26:18 And it's wrong in the index, you know, this is, it's just wrong, whatever that is a going and you look and you see that on the current on their new feed, let's say it's Buzzsprout. The entry in the dashboard will show their old feed, which could be a cast or something else. And if I hit a refresh, or a scan, I actually have set a reset, which, which, as I understand it, scans the whole thing all over again, all the metadata. That doesn't actually happen. Or maybe it happens, but it's not showing in the dashboard, because I would expect the new feed to show up in the feed area. Dave Jones: Does that make sense? I'm struggling to fair, Adam Curry: I'm gonna have to show you an example. But also, it's nice that you're talking about a mortgage on that merging, not a merge now not a merge. Reset I that was confusing. Yeah. So someone will say my podcast is showing the wrong feed. And it's, it's clearly getting an update from the new feed. But in the dashboard, and on the website, the feed icon links to the old feed, and when I hit reset, it doesn't appear to reset that feed field. Does that make sense?

27:36 Dave Jones: Oh, I see. So you're Oh, after the merge, forget to merge. Sorry. I Adam Curry: said merge, no merge unlocked. We're not merging, get out of get out of merge. Not merging, merging, merging, single entry. Someone says, My podcast has the wrong feed listed. I'm gonna go in wrong Feed URL, yes, when I go into the dashboard, right, I can actually search by their new feed, and it will bring up their podcast from the news feed. But the old feed is in the feed URL field. Dave Jones: Okay. And even when Adam Curry: I hit reset, it does doesn't appear to actually repopulate that with a new feed.

28:21 Dave Jones: Okay, I know what that is. So a bug that I find a Adam Curry: bug. Come on Dave Jones: now. Gray Area, it's a gray area. It's a gray area. So what in the in the index? Every feed has two properties. It's got a feed URL. And it's got something called original Feed URL. And so when a feed moves from one place to another, it's like a FIFO, like a first in first out it always your whatever the feed URL now is. So like if somebody moves from Buzzsprout to rss.com, their current Feed URL, in a perfect world, their perfect their current Feed URL would be rss.com, their original Feed URL would be Buzzsprout. Right? So that way, if people are trying to find it, they'll both return the same feed. So if somebody moves and somebody in but somebody still hasn't caught the memo yet, and they're searching by the old feed, Jarrell, it'll stop. Correct. Ah, okay. I gotcha. So when you're searching by the old but who no matter which feed you are, are you so just resetting the feed is not going to change the feed URL in that scenario? What we need is Adam Curry: true it also doesn't good it so it also doesn't reset the feed URL on the on the website or I guess the API.

29:49 Dave Jones: Right. So what all is a scan just says kick off a new scan for new episodes. Yep, got it. Reset. Does this sequence of events it If it sets the last modified time and the E tag to blank, it removes all of the episodes that we know about from the database. And then it removes a bunch of cash hashing. And then it says, Then it says rescan. So basically it essentially, for it, it's essentially like saying, okay, index, forget everything you know about this feed and go grab a fresh copy, right? That will know, in no scenario, will that change the feed URL. Okay, so the so what we need here is if somebody says, hey, my feed URL is wrong, we need a sec, we need that feed URL area to be editable. So you can go in there and change it. Yeah, so I need to I need to add that feature.

30:54 Adam Curry: Yes. Okay. All right. scissoring, gray area? Dave Jones: Yes, I have a. Okay, having that as an action plan. Alright, feed. Adam Curry: Because that's what that's what confused me. Well, just didn't understand that. So I'd say oh, wait a minute. So this is responding from the right new feed. All everything showing the episodes are showing, but it would have the old feed in there. And I'm like, that's wrong. Now I understand what I was looking, I was misinterpreting what I was looking at. Dave Jones: Well, this whole thing is just a symptom of the bigger problem, which is, which is Apple's presence in this in the podcast?

31:40 Adam Curry: Well, let's, let's talk about that. Or do you want to go to MK Ultra, because there, you got pissed off. And I love and I love it when I see a motion from you, honey. Dave Jones: I mean, I'm typically a zombie. Adam Curry: No, you're, you're the calmest most chill, dude. I know, I think yeah, I would say you always approach things with love and compassion, and understanding and empathy. And when when you're not like that, it gets my attention. Dave Jones: Cridland accused me of a baffling abuse of power, quote unquote. Adam Curry: Yeah, that that, to that?

32:24 Dave Jones: It didn't piss me off. I just, I would just rather reserve terms like baffling abuse of power for like government corruption. Yeah. And like war crimes. Adam Curry: Bombs. I think cluster bombs is a little closer to the Dave Jones: you were just talking about podcasts. I don't know that that's justified. But But what if that's, that's fine. But rhetoric rhetoric aside, it was a fair criticism. I mean, like I, I, I get angry and I just in a change something and I should have I should have talked it out first, because? Because there are because apps are dependent on the index. And also if it doesn't affect just me, it's not it's not up to me, it's up to this board meeting for a reason. So no, he is. He was right in that in that regard. So but, but I mean, more so than talking about the reason that the feed URLs are so screwed up, and all that kind of stuff. This all goes back to the same thing.

33:25 Yeah, apples, apples gray. They've been great in a lot of ways. But they have really, their presence within the ecosystem really effed up a lot of stuff. And I don't know how that's disputable. I mean, so, in this scenario, what happened was pod verse Colliver pod verse, I think it's, I think it's Mitch, his brother. He sent he does their admin stuff. And he sent me a message and said, he forwarded me an email. And it was an email from one of their users from one of their patrons and said, Hey, I'm trying to find this podcast on pod verse and I can't find it. And it was bitter blood. Case versus case like some kind of Casey case, some family drama podcast, okay, cool. From ot from Audible, it's like an audible original. So it's got a public RSS feed. It doesn't look like a private feed. Like, it doesn't have the hallmarks of like, some sort of, like members only feed or something like that, you know, it just looks like a normal feed. And so I'm like, Well, why is this thing not showing up? And cause cuz I go in there, and it's in the index.

34:39 Adam Curry: I see it. I'm looking at it right now. 6072109. Dave Jones: Right. But it's dead. It showed up as dead. So it was not visible within the API. Local. That's odd, because so that should only happen if I kill something manually, or if it's got a block tag. So I go look at the feed XML and it's got a block tag, block, iTunes colon block. Yes. That was, this is weird. There's so I'm like, Okay, well, why? Why would why would it be this way? So I go and look in Apple's directory, and it's there. It's there. And it's in Spotify. And it's in listen notes, and it's in downcast. And it's evidently been there. And I'm like, Okay, well, so and so now there's a situation where, Adam Curry: why it's so the block tag is not working even for the literal. The literal interpretation of iTunes block.

35:41 Yes, the editor and everyone else is ignoring it to Dave Jones: it. That's the way it seems, is. So a little bit of side note here. We've got questions out to Audible. And Apple, about what is going on with this particular feed, because this is indicative of a bigger issue. I'm not going to say that it's widespread and like, huge, but this happens on a frequent enough basis that I see feeds that have iTunes block that have the iTunes block tag set to yes. And Apple still continues to list them. So James came back and suggested that they this was audible. Perhaps he didn't say this definitively.

36:34 He said, I don't know. But perhaps audible set this iTunes block tag to yes. But then went into Apple's dashboard, the Apple podcast or connect dashboard, and told it to list anyway, somehow, I don't know, I've never been in that dashboard. I don't know anything about it. I don't even know if that's possible. But whatever. That's one theory. So here, so if that's the case, whatever the case is, really, what we have is a system now, where you have podcast feeds that? Well, let me let me back up for a second. The reason I got the reason I got pissed off is you suddenly begin to be aware in a situation like this, that, that there's a game going on that you weren't invited to. And that game is this weird interaction of the podcast ecosystem with the iTunes namespace. So the iTunes needs somebody somewhere, thinks that putting a blog tag in their feed, does something and somebody somewhere else doesn't think that that's the case?

37:52 Adam Curry: Well, a lot of somebody's apparently. Right. Dave Jones: So and let me be more specific. The iTunes namespace is an app is an accident. The way it's being used in the podcast world is law. Is is Apple came up with this with the podcast namespace in order for their prod, what they're what they did was they gave the they gave the namespace documentation to the world and said, Hey, if you want your podcast to function a certain way, within Apple, here's what you need to do. Right? This namespace defines the way that you are to write your feed in order for it to perform certain functionality within Apple's directory and Apple's podcast player. That's all it does.

38:50 Adam Curry: And for some reason, there is an and this is when I came into the conversation, there is this unwritten law that no no and iTunes block means blocks, block it from all directories, which I fundamentally disagree with, because I read the spec, and it doesn't say that. And what Rob would got thrown back at me is Well, Google says that I don't care. Dave Jones: See, and that's that's the infuriating thing about it. Again, why I guess so I think that's the infuriating thing about this entire setup. Is, is they're both right. Because Apple, Apple's iTunes names in the iTunes namespace.

39:34 All they only care about themselves. They never defined this and said this is the spec that everybody in the podcast industry is supposed to use. agreed this, this is not an open namespace in the sense that we all agree that this is the thing that we're supposed to use and we all get a voice that you should stay you should think of the items namespace not as a namespace not as an open spec, but as an A API. The iTunes namespace is the API that you use to control Adam Curry: to control how certain things work within the iTunes within the Apple ecosystem Dave Jones: within the Apple ecosystem. They never guaranteed anybody that it would work any other way with anybody else's platform Adam Curry: question, why do we block something that has the iTunes block in it then?

40:23 Dave Jones: Because that's the issue that's in that's the part that James is talking about is everybody else has adopted the iTunes namespace to mean to have certain functionality applicable to them? And so they said, okay, because there was nothing else we didn't exist. The podcast namespace didn't exist. In the iTunes namespace was the only game in town by the biggest most dominant player in the industry, it became Adam Curry: law. Well, clearly it clearly it didn't, because you said that there were four other platforms that ingested this and ignored the block tag, Dave Jones: including Apple themselves, including, well, we don't Adam Curry: so we don't actually know why that why Apple ignored that or if it was a setting that change, but there's a there's a more fundamental issue here. So now we have a namespace three years old. The namespace is an open namespace that lots of people contribute to it. Apple has recognized it by verbally recognized it when it comes to the TX T tag, although that's wishy washy at this point, I'm not quite sure exactly where we're at. But what I took what I take issue with is I have in the podcasting 2.0 feed as part of our namespace, which we declare I have on my bring it up here I have podcast block, Apple, yes.

41:52 Podcast block, Spotify. Yes. Podcast block, Amazon. Yes. Right. And Apple ingested that feed. I didn't put it in there. I don't know who put it in there. But it's in it's in apple. So they ignore our namespace. Right, right. That's when so okay, you can be you can be that way. But when the the reason that is given is well, only 0.3% of the world recognizes the name of the block tag from the podcast namespace. That's a bullshit reasoning. They Apple should play nice. And if you know that, I just that the it goes back to the whole reason we started this day was because people were sucking apples srong that's why nothing ever got done. We they were treated as the as the owners of podcasting, and they're not. We have to make a stand with a couple of things.

42:57 Dave Jones: No, I agree with you. And the the issue here is that since Apple's since the iTunes namespace was the dominant thing for so long, hosting companies decided it and justifiably, justifiably. So hosting companies took it to mean Zeiss, Zeiss, and I've spoken with them, they think they think that the iTunes block tag is a universal signal that everyone is going to respect or should respect. The iTunes blocked tag to not list a feed in their directory. And I can understand perfectly why they think that for reasons we just went into as a problem is that Apple, like I said earlier, Apple never designed it that way. And because there is a mismatch of design, there's a mismatch of intent. In Apple, the reason Apple doesn't respect the podcast blog tag, is because they don't give a shit about the podcast namespace. They've already from their perspective, they've already given us a way to block things in iTunes in the iTunes directory, correct. It's right there. It's the iTunes namespace correct. But But when you say, Hey, Apple, I put the iTunes block tag in my feed, and Spotify still listed apples like they're like, they don't care.

44:27 Yeah, they don't talk to Spotify. I don't give a shit. Like that's what they're gonna say in the in. This is all. So there is a fundamental mismatch of desire and intent between the open podcast community and the actors within it. And Apple, the most dominant player in that community. So there is no that is an unresolvable conflict. The only way you resolve this is by creating a truly open namespace. And that's the US are only and I can't I can't help the fact like that, it's not that it doesn't have wider adoption than then it does some of these tags. I can't help that at all. But I can actually see, my issue is, okay.

45:11 There's something here, whether it's a bug, or Okay, let's say that Jay did James's supposition is correct, is his possible scenario where there's a thing inside Apple where you can say, I'm gonna set iTunes blocked to Yes, in my feed, but I'm gonna go in and tell Apple itself to somehow override that enlisted anyway. Okay? Now you've you've, you're not even you're not open anymore. This year, you've now set up a scenario where you have special disposition to mate to, to override feed level visibility. You've, you've said in your feed, here's, here's the thing I want. But you've gone into a private API and said, Here's how you can, here's what I really want, right. And in that scenario, we're now no longer talking about open podcasting, we're talking about private API's that can control things that that the feed itself says are not true. And this is what I was talking about with the good with the robots dot txt file. If I put a robots dot txt file on it that blocks Google, and then I go try to go into Google's Admin Tools, they're gonna say, hey, and make sure that something shows up. They're gonna be like, hey, you need to go change your robots. txt file, because you're blocking us, Adam Curry: right? The way it should Dave Jones: run, because they're playing by open standards in this scenario, and unlike, okay, if, if, if we're competing now, with a whole bunch of platforms that have private API's that we

46:43 don't have access to. My only option is either to create another private API, which is completely contrary to all of our ideals and the reason we exist, amen. Or to just say, you know, what, our apps that depend on us are getting penalized, because you're not playing by the Open spec of podcasting. And I'm not going to play a play along with it either. Adam Curry: What's, what the ultimately interesting thing to know is what is the creator's intent, and I'm all for respect the creator's wishes. So was the creator's intent to block it from just Apple or all all platforms? That is the one thing we need to know that's the missing piece of information here?

47:30 Dave Jones: Yes. What was the we're trying to figure out? Yeah. Because I mean, we're actually sending emails trying to figure this out. Because it because it may Adam Curry: is reading is, is we the entire staff and management of podcasting two point, I just want to make sure who we is Dave Jones: Executive Administrator with Adam Curry: your admin, yes, your admin is all over it. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. She's crackerjack. She's all over. But there's people may hear this discussion and think this is like a tempest in a teapot. Adam Curry: No, it's very important. It's I think it's critically important and I feel that now Apple may not care, but I want them to know that I have made my my Creator wishes known.

48:13 That is clearly there, if they wish to ignore it. Okay. Understood. Now, how something how's our feed? That, that I own that my, my email address is a and how that got imported into Apple is a mystery to me. Because I'm not sure you can actually do that. That's simply but okay. It's it's interesting that it's in there. But that we have the open podcast namespace. This is the one that the industry contributes to, there are hundreds of 1000s of feeds that declare the namespace and may not use all the features, but I think the block tag was wasn't that something that? Hadn't Some people use that? Or am I the only one?

49:01 Dave Jones: I don't know. I haven't I haven't tried to do statistics on that. Okay. I'll Alanna, if I can't get an answer this question. All I know to do is, is just simply create a whitelist and say, here, that I'm, I'm in general going to respect the tag, because there's a lot of hosting companies that I know Adam Curry: that see it that way that publish as as a block as a universal block. Yeah. Dave Jones: And I don't want to kneecap them, but could they I don't, but, but I would advocate in the background for them to also adopt the podcast block. Adam Curry: Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I think that would that would be the way to go.

49:45 Dave Jones: And the because you know and try to move the needle on that. Because it is it is helpful. Let me let me finish that because in this scenario, if I can't get an answer to it In the whole world seems to allow this tag, excuse me allow this feed to come through. Except, except us. All that does is penalize the apps. So there may be what about the feed? This somebody really wants, and they sweat, you know, and they were a downcast user and they had it there and they switch to pod verse, and now they can get it. It has nothing to impart it's not pod versus fall. No, no, no. It's because as because downcast uses Apple's directory, right. And pod verse uses ours, and I don't see why that I don't see why they shouldn't get screwed in that deal. No. So you know, in this scenario, when there, maybe it's a short list, maybe it's 20 of these feeds that exist. I don't know, we Adam Curry: just, we just need to know what the deal is. Right?

50:50 And Dave Jones: I mean, the having a blog tag is okay, because there are private thieves out there log members only fade and it's messy, and I'm okay with having some sort of blog tag it to give a signal because we don't have a better way to do it. But, and, you know, HTTP basic authentication is this whole thing is a mess. Honestly, sure. Is. The whole thing is screwed up. If we have this screwed up system anyway, I mean, like this, this is like you're just adding lipstick on a pig at this point. But But I mean, I don't that that's that's kind of where I'm where I'm standing on it now. And I really will I need an answer to this question. And I've put James's reached out to everybody. I've reached out through a contact of mine through another third party who knows somebody in Amazon and I'm trying to get answers to these questions so that I know how to proceed and if they if it comes back of, well, I don't even know why that's in there. Well, then I'm seriously I'm just going to create a whitelist and just start these when feeds fall into this category. I'm just gonna start sticking them in the list and say, we're, we're ignoring this tag for these feeds. Right.

52:03 Okay. Now, I don't know anything else. I don't know what else to do. Adam Curry: Yeah, no, I'm big. I did get when you're so resolute. This that's me resin. But that but there is also something to be said for the podcast industry to universe and this would be this is a good one to do universally support the podcast, namespace block tag. So their customers when creating fields, they can make a choice and make their choice known to the world so that everybody understands it. Dave Jones: Agree. Yeah, I agree. And and I can, you know, I've said before, one of the most difficult parts of this job as far as you know, as far as the podcast namespace is concerned, the podcasting 2.0 side of things, is it is not just code, it's code and then a bunch of a bunch of zoom meetings with people and stuff like that trend. You have to be a coder and an evangelist. And the evangelism part is hard and exhausting. And so that I tend to not do it as much as I should. So I should be beating the bushes and saying, Hey, this tag is screwed up, use the podcast namespace bog tag instead. Right? Right, please. Please, at least add it beside the other. Yes.

53:19 Adam Curry: All right. Well, since we're on Apple, let's, uh, more bring up another topic, which you and I disagree on. Really? Yeah, we do. Get you even said we disagree on this. And this is why the value for value you're Dave Jones: wrong and clearly. Adam Curry: Well, this is the conversation about why the value for value podcast apps have not been tagged or flagged by Apple's App Store for their violation of their guidelines. And if I can summarize, I would say that your view is Apple was giving us a break. And now, okay, I'll read summarize. Your view is because they're in the space, they are cautious to kick apps out for antitrust issues.

54:22 Dave Jones: Yes, because book book there. I think they feel comfortable kicking Nasir out because not because they because Apple does not have a monetization strategy in the social networking sphere. But they do have a monetization strategy in the podcasts sphere. So they if they kick out value for value podcast apps, it looks like a conflict of interest. Adam Curry: Okay, so that is your position. Yes. And others have have wondered out loud Well, if noster apps are being being tagged and filled I have to remove zap functionality.

55:03 It's curious that the podcasts value for value apps aren't receiving the same treatment. And I want to reset everybody's mind for a moment. Because it's apples and oranges zaps on a social network is nowhere near value for value streaming payments or booster grams. In a podcast app, it is two completely different animals, the only thing that is the same is the Lightning Network and Satoshis. That's the only thing. And if you read the guidelines, and I made a study of this, because this is this is one of the most important things in my life, it is my life right now. That that this system keeps functioning because I have lived by this value for value system for 16 years, I have not taken a single penny from any corporate company, any advertiser, not a share. I'm not I'm not an advisor, and nothing, nothing, it's only been what people have sent and mainly on no agenda through PayPal. And this was the the upgrade the solidification of the entire system. Because you know, as we know from PayPal pocalypse PayPal is a very weak link in the in the process. And obviously Bitcoin, the Lightning Network, fulfill some of the sense of anti censorship part.

56:33 But the guidelines for Apple clearly state that you can tip or donate to a creator. I believe there's a huge distinction and difference between a post calling that something from a creator, you can really start to get it this is why I've never liked the term creator. Because yeah, you know, I took a shit and I took a picture of it. I'm a creator, you know, a post, which someone then zaps that post, as they said, in their argumentation to damos. They said, that can be used as a quid pro quo. So hey, if I'm an influencer, and I post something about your company, you will then zap that post.

57:25 That is completely different from value for value. Besides the name as it implies, and the entire we've published, what value for value is it's time talent, treasure, it's returning value that you feel you've received from the entire product, there is almost it's almost unthinkable that someone would do an entire podcast for a quid pro quo for your booster gram. And the the whole system is set up and named in a very, very different manner. And very, if you look at the guidelines, it's so exact and spot on, right down to its name, that it's just not the same thing. And I think Apple recognizes that now. Is there a tinge of hey, if anything, I think that they're afraid. They're afraid if they were to to stop this system, that they could lose market share in the podcasting apps, app sphere, people would revolt and that that can happen. I think we're way too far down the road for them to start kicking value for value podcast apps out of the system, but it's not for anti competitive reasons. As you said earlier, as we agree, they don't give a shit about anybody else. Apple does not give a shit about you, me, the podcast names based podcasting, they don't care about anything. They care about Apple. They they're

58:55 they're not giving anybody a break or leniency. And I hate hearing that, because that makes me very nervous. If that were true, then they can wake up one morning and say they could do that anyway, obviously, they could wake up and say, Screw these guys don't like him anymore. So the one where we have to be this, this will be going back three years in time all let's be nice to Apple. Dave Jones: Oh, no, I, hey, we're on the same page with that. I mean, this is not that. When I say that, that when I say that? That was my feeling. It's not as Donald say that out of hope. Adam Curry: No, I know, I know that our citizens know that. But I want I want it to be known that the value for value is so far removed from what noster is doing. And in addition, in addition, the splits the value splits is has created an ecosystem that is recognized as not something that you know Kim Kardashian is ever going to use this and this is this is and I believe that it's true the social networking aspect of noster With zaps, is completely open to a payment system for digital assets. Hey, man, I'll post this right now. Boom, there's a zap. That's not how podcasts work. Podcast, don't you don't just whip up a podcast episode. podcast episodes are value created in advance and people can value that back. It's not the same as a post that was done a nostril? Do we agree on

1:00:27 that? Dave Jones: I mean, I agree. I guess the question is, does anybody else, you know, the people that they get to make decisions? Adam Curry: Well, okay, anybody mystery? Yeah, of course, anybody can can change. They can change their guidelines tomorrow if they want. But more importantly, I want everyone to see value for value as something much bigger than a payment system, which is why, you know, when there's when there's a suggestion, saying, Hey, we can just do this with dollars now. No, it's, it's not even about dollars, it's about value received value returned. It's a programming format. It's not just a payment system. It's a it's a philosophy. It's, it's a model for doing a podcast, not expect to get paid for it, but to be doing it because you're receiving value for what you did. And that can be a nice note, it can be someone creating some art for you, someone creating a jingle, someone's sending you an email that you can use in your program. It is a modern content format, that includes a monetary value mechanism as one of the options. It's way beyond a, it's not like advertising. It's just not it's not like I'm going to do this show. And if I just if as long as I have a value block in my

1:01:57 feed, I'll get paid. No, you won't. There's an ask. There's a recognition, it's all spelled out of value for value dot info, it's very important that people understand that this goes way beyond the monetary aspect. It is, in fact, I think the saving grace for podcast moving forward, as everything is collapsing upon itself. Dave Jones: I wish I wish I had clipped it. But coder radio, in the last couple of episodes, Chris has been talking about, you know, losing an advertiser and that kind of thing and, and how they're, you know, really going in with, with boosts, and you're going to, you know, have that try to make that a part of their revenue stream. And he, it's good to listen to the most recent episode because he goes in at the, you know, they they talk about you talking about the ask, he says, you know, a, our goal for this for each episode is 500,000 SATs. That's what we would, that's what our target is. And he tells everybody up front, that's, we want you to we want you to boost and we want you we are trying to achieve 500,000 sets. And at the end of the episode, he said, here's how much we actually got. Keep that in mind for next episode. And let's try to hit the 500,000 mark. He's He's being very open and transparent about what he wants his audience to do. And then me, you know, I boosted into the show last couple of weeks, talking about a specific

1:03:27 topic and response to something and then Alex boosted in and in responding to something I said, then I boosted back and we've like, it's been this fun, back and forth where we as the audience have been boosting in, like having conversations with ourselves and the host at the same time interacting all together. And it became it's, it's a whole it's created an entire little sort of show within a show. Yes. And that's like that whole thing. That's my way of saying that. I think you're I think you're right about this. Is Is Boost is boosts and booster gram going to replace all of your advertising.

1:04:09 No. But what Chris is doing ethic ism and and chyron as well for Mere Mortals. They are showing, they're showing how you can begin to make the Trenton like make the transition. Adam Curry: I'm going to take it one step further. I enjoyed hearing Christopher Lydon on the pod news weekly review. I know Chris, I remember very well when when Dave put his radio show into into an enclosure which we had running for three years before that and we're doing all kinds of stuff and I was able to receive it on my radio userland and this is before I had made the connection with with iPod which is really how the you know the podcasting Park came together, okay, call it a it's clearly a podcast, call it the first podcast ever, it's fine.

1:05:06 But what he still has, and he still holds is the social aspect. He has a group of podcasters. And I guess they all listen to each other's podcast. It's still kind of, in a way like the early audio blogging, and it's and his spoken hub model, whatever he calls it, but it's different. It's different real voices that are out there. And this was indeed, the original intent before podcasting, but I was a part of that. We got overly horribly commercialize in its in its intent. I mean, I did sound seeing tours, I'd go out with binaural microphones, and I'd walk around Union Square at midnight and talk to the homeless people in San Francisco, and you would hear the sounds of the streets and we were doing a lot of experimentation. But when I hear Christopher Lydon saying, Hey, I never made a penny off of podcasting, then like, yes, bingo, that's the point.

1:06:04 Podcasting, like blogging, which went through the same cycle. It's not a thing. It's not like getting into radio or getting into television. Do you have a reason you want to communicate something and you want a community, you want to build a community that receives it, if you are only doing this to make money, that is you're going to be a part of a very, very small set of people. But if you're doing it to receive value back, if you go into it with that mindset, that's when it gets beautiful, because that's when you open up something that radio has never successfully done is had your community become a part of, of the podcast become a part of the product through feedback mechanisms, which include now, direct value, a monetary form, but I would, I would argue, the numerology is perhaps even more important than the value of the numbers themselves. Satchel of Richards row of ducks 6969 808, these are all she slammed Satoshi slam, these are striper booths, these are all content messages that you're allowing people to create to be a part of the program. And this is where everybody can find happiness in podcasting. If your happiness is going to come from money, well, you're going to be disappointed. I'm just telling you right now,

1:07:36 because it's very hard to make a living doing this unless you have something that you are creating that is so valuable that people want to contribute value back, which actually makes the program even more valuable. I'll just tell you how it works with no agenda. Everything I do 90% comes from the audience who we don't even call listeners we call them producers for a reason. They're sending me clips, links, personal stories, thoughts, information, bullcrap, all kinds of stuff they're sending, and I am packaging that into a show the people who can't do that send value in a different way. And they do that through a monetary unit. But everybody is contributing and is equally as valuable to the actual product. That to me is what podcasting is. It's not just a product, it's like this music show. I'm not just gonna sit here and just play tracks and count the money that comes in. So I'm taking the 5% and the artists get 95% That's going to be a shit show. I want people finding songs, you know, I want artists feeding back information, I'm going to be the content router that makes all this happen. And the value that is represented is coming.

1:09:03 Everyone contributes to that. It's podcasting is not just like a radio show where you get paid at the end of the month based on how many listeners you had. It is irrelevant. This This project is so clearly value for value. We have 12,000 people that listen maybe on a monthly basis 12,000 uniques, maybe if that probably less. But the project runs it sustains everybody is a part of it. And it's not just money. Dave Jones: But my dad said my dad said a long time ago he was a deacon in the church and he was saying that when you're looking around for people to be deacons. What you do is you you look for the people who are already doing the work of the deacon. And those are the people you nominate to be a deacon. So like he was talking about and that can be this engine General can be expanded to all serve, you know, all all sorts of like service things, you, you look, the people who are going to be the people who are going to do the best in a passion project are the people who are already doing it before, there's any question of reward or anything like that is the thing I like the most, it's like the podcast that, that I am going to start already recorded one of the episodes of the little, you know, nice nightstand book podcast, that, you know, that

1:10:34 thing I just, I just want to do is I feel like I feel like I'm just dying to do this thing. But there's really I haven't even really thought about anything involving money. I don't even know if that will ever happen. I doubt it will. It's not really that sort of thing. So like, it's, it's the podcasting is you can tell when people are doing it, because they have a passion. You can tell when people are doing it, because they've, they've put together a math problem where they can end exit the end of the month with certain X number of dollars, right? in those in those things are just not compelling to me at all. Adam Curry: And that makes you a true podcaster I'm just gonna get I mean, I read this this morning, and it really helped me a lot Ecclesiastes night. I know, but I'm just gonna do a Bible a little bit of a Bible verse, Bible Study Bible study, the race is not to the Swift or the battle to the strong, nor does the food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favorite to the learned, but time and chance happen to them all. And what this really means is, you're not doing this for those reasons it Life is not fair. People say hey, man, do you are one of the CO inventors of podcasting while you're not a billionaire? Well, I don't know. That's just the way it is. But you're not doing it for those reasons. If you're doing it for those reasons, you're just going to be disappointed at the end of the road. Don't let the inequities of life. keep you from doing fun things earnest, dedicated stuff that you want to

1:12:04 do. Yes. And that's the point. That's what makes podcasting so beautiful. And I and it pains me when people are, you know, are disappointed because they didn't get any value in return, which the only way they measure that is by you know, okay, to some degree, there's stats in your, in your dashboard, the Hey, I got three guys in Belgium listening. Okay, that might be kind of interesting. Or, you know, I made $50 Well, one bill, I'm putting all this all this work in only getting 50 bucks. These are the wrong metrics. You want the love coming back from people? And and boosting is loving.

1:12:48 Dave Jones: But that, yes. The the feedback, the feedback loop within a podcast is it changes everything. And it's, it makes all the difference. I listened. I listened to an episode of fresh air today. It's not really a list of things I listened to, but somebody sent me an episode of it. So listen to it. And it was good. It was good episode. And but it was so like at the end of it. I felt I'm like, Okay, I feel like I just kind of read a Wikipedia article. Yeah, I don't feel like I was sort of like that beauty of podcasting, where you feel like, you're, you're involved like you're you're, you felt like there's a connection between you and the in the host and the guest and all these? Like, I didn't get any of that. No, for that reason. For that reason. I did not. I didn't hit the subscribe.

1:13:43 I'm not going to put that in rotation. Because while it was helpful, and I thought that the information was good. I mean, I don't it's not a thing that it's not compelling. And so I don't want you know, I don't want to read Wikipedia all Adam Curry: day. So when I hear our premier news weekly program of the industry podcast weekly review, when I hear the booster Graham corner, and the explanation is well, it's little bits of money people can send to you and wow, there's 10,000 in the last $10,000 In the last 30 days. That's not to me, that's not what value for value is about. Value for value is a feedback mechanism. That that that allows you to do exactly what you couldn't do with fresh air. If you'd been able to set and it's whether it's you know, 10,000 SATs or 100 SATs, it doesn't matter. Me, probably the number would be more interesting. You know, Hey, Amy gross 808 her, you know, that's that's what it's about that is and that in Christopher Lydon brought me back to those days where he was saying hey, we just wanted to have Different, different voices about the Iraq war. We wanted to have different voices about the economy at that point. You know, we just wanted something we wanted to hear from each other from from people from real people. And you know, it

1:15:13 didn't matter if you have names or oz errs, which now there's entire industries to automatically chop that out, make sure you don't sound human, whatever you do, make sure all that stuff is edited out, please, let's not have any human interaction. That's what we're losing. With that kind of thinking. Dave Jones: Did when you when you had the idea for the enclosure? Where was money in that thought process? Nowhere. That's, that's what I thought it. And I would say that. That's true for let's just take, let's just say, Sam over a pod fans.

1:15:56 He raised he raised the seed round to get the thing off the ground. But you can tell when he sends us a days. And he has all these screenshots and all these things about the features that they're implementing. This is not about money for him. No, this is, yeah, this is a passion project. Where in in the passion is from a distance, what I can see is that the passion is look at all of these protocols that offer a so many cool things I want to do all of them. That's where he's coming from. He's like, there's a thing that exists that is not fully consumed, and I want to consume it. And that that is a it's just I don't, I don't believe for one second that it's that is a primarily a money play. Otherwise, it would just be another app. And it's not just another app. It's a it's a it has its own unique identity, that's going to be a big deal.

1:16:52 Adam Curry: I wanted to be a broadcaster I wanted, that's all I've ever wanted to do. I was a pirate radio guy. We had advertising on the station, which paid for the rent and paid for the transmitter for the power. And if the FCC came by and took all our crap we couldn't you had a little reserved so we could set it up within three hours be back on the air. When I worked at professional radio stations, I would have paid I would have paid to do it. I love doing that I loved I love the medium. I love creating I just the idea that I could create my own radio show because that's how I viewed it at the time. Without transmitters. We don't need no stinking transmitters, without a boss without a hotline that could ring if I said something wrong. Or if I didn't sound professional, or, you know, that was that was always the intent always.

1:17:47 Dave Jones: Alex said I always said I certainly don't think about money in any of the specs that I write. And you can do, you can do. And I would go so far as to say that Adam Curry: is anybody here making money in this whole project? Please, please, Dave Jones: I would get I would go so far as to say that. That may be something that that may be part of the problem with Apple, you know, at Apple, Apple podcasts probably started off as a more pure play because there was there was absolutely zero money in it from the beginning. And now there now it's different leadership styles gone. There's there's a new, there's new people involved. And it is it does have a monetization play.

1:18:33 Sure. And that's probably there. They've they've probably drifted from that pure sort of open ethos as well. Adam Curry: Yeah. And of course, of course, I mean, but I'll say that Mayo when I when I met with Steve, and he introduced podcasting in iTunes. And when he played the daily source code, he and I had already discussed at that meeting, he says, Well, do you intend to make money? I said, Well, I think the only way I can see right now is and I remember exactly what I said, is advertising. But we have to change advertising. That was always my thinking we have to change advertising. And we tried very hard. It was it was kind of back to the old days of talking about a product what we'd call now the host endorsement, which I don't like that either these terms because it implies an endorsement. But that was that was always what I had hoped would work. And that never worked. Host endorsements you know, there. We're still stuck in the old model of boy you've got a million listeners. I know that if I get you to talk about my product I'll get X percent will buy because you said so.

1:19:46 You know it's dishonest is bullcrap. Nobody actually likes my pillow. Dave Jones: So but I mean, Adam Curry: I mean come on Squarespace Now Splenda really really Splenda by since SEO I mean all these it there was just it's not podcasting is inherently not a great way to to do advertising is just not and now we have we have expanded I think just chipped away at the podcast Industrial Complex has now created the entire systems that will make sure that oh advertiser that not only will you not you know advertise on the shows that are wrong but even if there's someone makes an ad hominem attack against somebody else you won't get caught in the crossfire come on What are we talking about? Yes, that means is nothing but the all you can do is advertise on fresh air. That's basically it. The most safe you know, non combative, whatever. That's not what podcasting is for. I want to hear crazy people. I want to hear people who have great ideas who are doing nutso stuff I want to hear crazy music. I mean, I want to be I want to be I want my mind blown. I wanted the first people who came in to podcasting were the god casters.

1:21:16 They got it. Hey, I've got a very unpopular format for radio. Yeah, I'm gonna read the Bible. I'm gonna read the Bible and I'm going to interpret it a my way in my my, my conviction. This that was amazing to me. Dave Jones: It's funny. So when you this is we're on this topic. Crillon asked Lydon. You know what, what did he think podcast? What did he think podcasting was going to be in the future? I kind of think if you take yourself back to when you first when you first envisioned when you first saw that the Weiner was going to put the enclosure tag into RSS at first begin the first beginnings of this thing working. Did you have any concepts of what it was going to look like in the future? And does what it is now reflect anything like what you thought it may be? Or did you not think really think of any where you've too focused on just getting the tech working to think about the future?

1:22:26 Adam Curry: I was big, because I was focused on getting the tech working but you only get the tech working if you have the content flowing, absorbs. That's why I built a directory, the I potter.org directory. And I loved Don and drew. I love the rock'n'roll geek show. That here was a guy who was a rocker who was sitting in front of his microphone playing, playing his own songs. He's like, he drank a six pack Michael Butler would drink a six pack he was clearly buzzed. While he was doing this. He was talking about his stories on the road match Weinstein the bloated lesbian Hello, this was phenomenal, phenomenal stuff to listen to. It's still there. So for me and that was actually part of the problem because we would go to advertisers and say look we got all these cool shows. You know we got the bloated lesbian we got Dawn and Drew and the address what what what do you have as him No, it's phenomenal. This is now because it was so new and you know people would you know they just kind of like oh, I guess so this is what the hip kids are doing.

1:23:32 But that's the stuff I mean. I can hear new shows anywhere really. But if I even want the stuff that I that pisses me off like pivot, it's a hate Listen, but it's something that you could not get you could not get Kara Swisher dropping the F bomb every 10 minutes about Elon Musk on any radio station. I love it. I like it. I enjoy that. So I've just wanted to hear is so restrictive, the medium of radio and television, the 24 hour clock the linear programming, the linear and horizontal programming like to say this the same time every day. We could determine when we wanted to listen to this stuff. It was as exciting as it is today. My my podcast list is very esoteric.

1:24:21 And it still is am so that never changed. I got completely sidetracked, completely sucked up into building a company and when you have a company then you've got to find a way to make money but I it was the pod show days, some of the unhappiest days of my life. Dave Jones: You could tell you could hear it in your voice. Yeah, you weren't you were so ready to get out of there. By the time no agenda became feasible. Adam Curry: It was it was like even before no agenda I sold so I sold my plane. I sold all my possessions just so I wouldn't have to work. It was like building a beautiful race car. for NASCAR, I'm gonna drive this thing around the track. I want to race the wheels off this sucker. But then they put all these sponsor stickers all over the windshield, so I couldn't see where I was driving.

1:25:14 Dave Jones: Yeah, and that's still, that's still the just like there's this uneasy tension between Apple and the rest of podcasting, there's still this uneasy tension between the monetization side of podcasting. And the hobby side. Well imagine, Adam Curry: imagine the disappointment, when I'm sure I got the call from Steve Jobs. I talked to the guy for an hour, I'm blown away. Turns out I saved an entire company rogue amoeba from from going out of business. You know, the story, the Audio Hijack Pro, Dave Jones: and as an accident, Adam Curry: accent Oh conversation. And I gave them our 5000 listening directed the iPod our.org was a beautiful directory, because it was an OPML based open outliner. So I had I maintained at the top, no, but anyone could basically maintain it, that was part of the beauty of it, you know, just like anyone can take our database and build podcasts index, you know, dotnet, or whatever, but no one does. And I had Country Manager, so you're the guy in Germany. So I would use your your outline note as an include into Germany, I did it by geographic region, just to make it easy. And then in Germany that that person, say, Okay, I'm going to have sub managers and you collect all of the podcasts that are intact,

1:26:46 you do news, you do politics, etc, etc. And everyone maintained their own little node on their own server. Now, of course, you know, with with the expected results, sometimes something would break, but but then every night, I would roll it all up, then I would traverse the entire tree. And then I'd have whatever was new, whatever was, you know, and I'd have a top note, here's what's new today, kind of like the NCSA, What's New page for those who are old enough to remember mosaic. And, and I gave them that entire directory. So imagine the disappointment when they launched iTunes, and the whole front page was NPR, NPR, BBC, it was all mainstream stuff. And all the cool stuff was in there. But it was all you know, you had to go search it go look in categories. And they put all of the all of the pro professional stuff, quote, unquote, on the front. And the whole beauty of podcasting from that very me That was my mistake, from that very moment.

1:27:46 sucked. Apple's made it suck now, I'm happy that they were there. But that was just apple. I mean, I was young, I was inexperienced. What I could have expected that. So obvious that that was going to happen. Oh, yeah. They put me on the front page for a couple of weeks. Thanks, of course. But I didn't hit the front page. After that. Maybe maybe one time when no agenda hit 1000 episodes or something? They might have done something nice, but not for long. Dave Jones: Why can't we still do that? That concept of having ever having the database split? into multiple, maybe not regions, but multiple sections with different people with different people curating?

1:28:31 Adam Curry: Oh, I mean, well, of course we can. Like, I love that idea. I mean, we also do, we didn't have infrastructure, we barely had email. I mean, we didn't have a lot of tools that we have now. And, and creating, I mean, that just keeping a weblog up when you got Slashdot that was that was trouble enough. So that was Yeah, I got slashed on it. And that was that was just keeping your web server running was hard, let alone that you split up a database and had regional managers and all this stuff. Everybody was using own little hosting space to host their OPML file that then would be included in the next guy up the up the chain. Dave Jones: I mean, I guess we have, we have like, you know, we have like 6 million podcasts in the database. All told, I mean, I could see it being split up with six different people. And, you know, we, we, we sort of were a concentrator that then hits the appropriate back end where, you know, I like that. I like that idea. It's, you know, you could do with obviously do with OPML, because the data was small and you didn't have, you know, didn't have millions of records, but I bet we could still eventually find a way to do that.

1:29:43 Adam Curry: Well, this is essentially what Yahoo initially was. Yahoo was a directory. It's a little different from an index. Yeah, a little different Dave Jones: categories. A little more like newsgroups. Yes. Which is Adam Curry: oddly how people organize things in their head quite well, which is why I'm an outlier. Honor guy. I love outlines and outliners. Anyway, so that is my, my philosophical view on what we're doing. And thank you for listening because I want it to be clear to everybody that we've we've gotten into a loop with the podcast industrial complex of an industry. And an industry is almost kind of counterintuitive to what the whole medium is. And, and the, the beauty of RSS distribution, which means everybody can also determine their own playout system, what they like, you know, it's not all now there was there was an interesting little little bit in as Rob and and James, were talking on pod news weekly review. And it was kind of enlightening to me. It's like, you know, RSS is great, but because of RSS, we don't have great stats for advertising.

1:31:09 Dave Jones: Well, that's gonna get worse. Adam Curry: Right? But But that's why that's why the P IC always wants to move away from RSS because they want logins they want to know who you are. And you know, and Spotify didn't do a great job of it. They know who everybody is. So I don't know if it's ever going to work. And by the way, Spotify with autoplay, that was like, that was like cursing God, back in the day. Because we all know, autoplay is a scam, it's a scam to get more higher numbers, make it look like you're successful. You know. And, Dave Jones: and we know what Spotify classifies as a play, it's 20 milliseconds, exactly.

1:31:51 Adam Curry: So then that'll be counted as a download, or as a play that will add that will count towards the advertising numbers. It's a scam. It's the Dave Jones: same but raw. I mean, Rob's not even in the podcast industry anymore, is he? Well, he's like doing YouTube stuff. Adam Curry: But that's, that's neither here nor there. I'm just saying, that is what the industry has become. And it's, it's a house of cards. And you're seeing it now now that the free money is gone. And, and all the all the great production companies are folding or being folded in on themselves or being aggregated away being there's no more 100 million dollar Rogan deals, none of it's all gone. It's all gone because the cheap money is gone. And so what remains is the pure unadulterated joy of podcasts, about something that you enjoy listening to, and that you can participate in. That's the difference between podcasts and a radio show. You can be a part of it, you can contribute value in three main ways.

1:33:00 Dave Jones: That's why I hope I think that thing, that's why I'm so hopeful about the music side of things. Because in this invite, it's not just podcasters as musicians, yes. And Adam Curry: that and how how screwed over are the musicians, they have gotten such a raw deal. From technology from Silicon Valley. It started with the unbundling of a beautiful product, which was the album okay, it was already a CDs of the liner notes. But I remember I was there, you know, it's like, oh, man, this is not quite as cool as it used to be. And then iTunes unbundled the album into tracks. And Steve Jobs himself set a price 99 cents. That's, that's what it's worth.

1:33:43 I don't care how much you'd like that song. It's 99 cents, which is so unfair, because the value to someone he determined or Silicon Valley determines what I'm going to value this piece of music at? Dave Jones: Well, at least at least, if you're if you're looking at this on a on a advertising model, at least within podcasting, you have the content itself is conducive to being able to to contain advertising music, you can't you can't drop an ad in the middle of a three minute song. There's no there's no possibility to even do an ad based music model that did go and I'm talking about in a way that directly contribute directly benefits the musician. The only way advertising works in the music world is if the platform does ads in then as a way to monetize their own their own efforts to stream music, your music to people that may or may not ever pay you exactly like that. So there's no there is no other alternative. For them the other the only other thing the only thing that works that advertising does not work for music. The only thing that works for music is value for value.

1:35:10 Adam Curry: And I'm glad you brought that up because I did bring a song for today go to share with the group and and this of course if you're listening in in what now what are the apps I've lost track of them the curio caster pod friend pod friend pod verse I think pod verse doesn't know Dave Jones: me we still don't know not sure we're not sure if I need Mitch to pipe in Adam Curry: and curio caster can definitely do this live so I got a short track I got a female artists today because we I don't think we've had any well we had one we had one female a female lead singer found this one over just sifting around through LM beats and it has no intro so don't get to talk it up like I usually do it Sarah Jade and you're gonna listen to wait Destiny Unknown: Destiny wait Destiny says to Gary Java ski fans and installs can blaze on run me Wait wait wait wait this thing

1:36:49 says quickly as possible God so you don't you're all better all across this galaxy Hello friends where are you traveling

1:38:39 Adam Curry: so all the SATs that you streamed the boost that you sent that went to Sarah J we destiny we think like this all Dave Jones: I did like it I also merged a pull request during the middle of this What did you merge a lip merge. Adam Curry: And thank you Dred Scott for boosting 100,000 SATs to Sarah Jade. Oh nice. That is very nice. Dave Jones: Very generous Adam Curry: pen and man I'm so pumped about this stuff. So yeah, there you go. I love the fact that musicians will now see some kind of value from multiple people it'll be numbers. There's there's you know messages that go along with it. This is this this is what makes creative people do it do what they do.

1:39:35 You know it's not not a paycheck don't make be expecting a paycheck just expect some value. Dave Jones: On the on the face seven front, Adam Curry: da Hold on a second. Dave Jones: Oh, time for space. I love it. I mean we got a space. We got to talk about it. We get It's a thing. Phase seven is is going to be a thing quicker than we know. So right now we're looking at chat, verify ownership. But they were changing the name of the authorization tag, because it's it's not. It's not authorization. That's, that's not we're talking about, we're talking about simply verifying ownership of a feed. And we're also look going to look at the events tag. Okay, that's what we've got so far.

1:40:28 Adam Curry: And what is the event? What is the event tag for Dave Jones: again, that was the thing of sending events back from an app to Oh, yeah, Adam Curry: writer, which actually could be very handy for the podcast industrial complex. Dave Jones: Yeah, I'm just think we need to revisit that tag. Because John spent a lot of time on it, and totally even had to prove he had a proof of concept and that kind of thing. I think we should need to, it needs to be in the boardroom, we need to kick it around a whole bunch and find out what we all want to do with that. The chat tags already in our feed, and it's a it's a simple tag. I feel like that thing's probably just kind of a slam dunk. But I mean, it will still talk it over but the verify ownership tag, I think we're kind of coming around. on that. I think we I think everybody's kind of agreeing. On the spec that we outlined. A while back, we're we're just down really down to just kind of cache busting questions at the moment. So I think that we'll be right. Hopefully, we'll have so here's my plan for the verify ownership tag. I think I think just for four reasons. reasons. Reason as I should be the one, I should be the one of the first ones to implement that on podcast wallet. Okay. Don't you think so?

1:41:53 Adam Curry: Yeah. Yeah. And well, that's what that automatically automatically be set through the the Partner API as well. Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Because I mean, we we sort of need, we're stuck to I mean, we know we need to, we need the email handshake. And we don't have it. And yeah, yeah. So I feel like, I feel like if I make that, then I can sort of proof of concept that out to everybody else. And Adam Curry: will we still have the email verification possibility? Or is that not going to be? Okay? Okay. Dave Jones: So here's my thought. We, we combined the two. So when you when you claim your show, when you claim your podcast feed on podcast or wallet, it would send you the email with the authorization token in it, but then also give you a separate authorization token, display it to you and begin the Dave, the feedback loop. So then, like so that, that way people can just spoof the email. But so there'll be a separate token, and then we will, we will look for that.

1:43:12 We'll begin the cycle of looking for that every once a min. And now Adam Curry: we look for it only in the TX T tag? Or will we make it a little loose for everybody who doesn't quite support it yet? Dave Jones: I think initially, we will probably have to make it loose. Yeah, I Adam Curry: think so too. Dave Jones: Because if somebody goes in to technical term, by the way, loose, loose, Adam Curry: loose, like we can throw it in your Show Notes field that a lot of work. So this isn't making Dave Jones: qualifies as loose. That's very loose. Yeah, so I think yeah, I think I think at first we'll just scrape the feet for that token, were just as a big, you know, like, just look for the substring anywhere in the anywhere in the whole XML.

1:43:54 And then, yeah, I mean, I think I think that's, that makes a lot of sense to me. And then we have once we sort of prove it, then we can show everybody, I'll put the code up and show the show works. Adam Curry: Yeah. Excellent idea. Excellent. Okay. And this Dave Jones: is I'm hoping I'm hoping we can verify to get the verify ownership thing done pretty quick and not have to wait till the end of phase seven. I mean, because I think it's an it's a, it's a pretty big need at this point. Adam Curry: Is there anything that we need to revisit from any of the previous six phases that needs love or needs attention or that just has fallen by the wayside? Dave Jones: Well, I mean, I'm sure that that's, that's probably one of the dangers of going as fast as we have is things get lost. Yeah. And, which is another thing I like that what was sanded was I don't know if you saw that series of tweets, where he literally tweeted every single tag and what it does, no, I didn't see that. No, I missed that. Yeah, he's like he's like pod fans supports this. And here's what the tag does. It supports this tag and here's what it does it supports they went through all 20 Something tags. And so probably I need to spend more time in the sort of evangelism phase. We've got, we don't want to jump directly necessarily back into Phase seven and just say, okay, you know, we're just going to barrel on through here and roofs heads down, we're gonna do we're gonna build even more stuff, you know, like,

1:45:25 Wait, that's not necessarily what needs to happen at this point. I feel like we need to take a breather. And sort of like I think what you said is right, we need to we need to go probably go back. I need to do I should probably do a little bit of writing right now about some of these tags and how they fit together. And then maybe a remote Adam Curry: remote item might need some more some more explanation. Dave Jones: I've got a draft of a sub stack post for remote items specifically and I'll just start backwards with that and then work my way backwards. Adam Curry: How about your show though? Man I'm waiting for your Dave's nightstand days nice Dave Jones: yes, there's the night yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna launch I think here's here's Okay, let me give you this. Let me give you this this dope idea that I got I was thinking that I will I can buy a road caster duo yeah because I'm I'm looking for any reason to justify buying one Adam Curry: I mean, you're just going to record your mic right it's just gonna be that Yeah, yeah, you need a road caster do Oh, for that for sure. I need one baby. Without that I mean, how can you even consider doing a show Dave Jones: I was picking out bread at the grocery store the other day trying to figure out how this fit into a road caster duo strategy so my thought is I do the road caster duo and if I get in and I can fly I can fund I can I can buy I can buy the

1:47:00 road caster duel on on a booster Graham credit or boost credit. How does that work? Oh, go ahead and buy it and then they've written then as I get boosts you pay it back you pay back pay it off? Yeah, Adam Curry: there's a good goal. There's a good goal said hey, this is what I want first pay for that pay for the duo. Yeah, I sent me some value for that. Dave Jones: If I if in a year I get enough boosts to pay back my Duo I'll consider a success. Adam Curry: Oh, you'll have that within six weeks. Dave Jones: I don't want that I want I want it to be okay and I don't want people to boost Adam Curry: well remember remember you get what you asked for so if you just ask for open ended value you're gonna get you're gonna be surprised so when when you when you set a limit you're gonna get the limit when you say open you'll be surprised Dave Jones: I'm gonna do premium content.

1:47:52 Adam Curry: Oh give me a break Dave Jones: if people craft you become a member become a member I did that tell you about that about the show? There's always trigger nom de no trigonometry of course you know that. They like they're they're like tiers of membership. They have a tear a membership tier where they will have dinner with you like once a month I'm not shitting you that is the God's honest truth. They will like have dinner over zoom with you. I'm like, Are you kidding? Adam Curry: What does that cost? What does that cost for dinner over? Dave Jones: Like $10,000 a month for all I'm asking for money really?

1:48:35 Adam Curry: That's an interesting tear off the rails man. I'm telling you if you just asked people to send whatever they thought the show was worth to them. You'd be amazed time and time and time again. Dave Jones: This is all straight and various strategies that I'm cooking up to but to fund a road caster do oh this is all that matters. She says you I just want to have the little pads where I can go up you need the little pads you need them one Yeah, well sound effect is Adam Curry: that it is such a beautiful cute little box. I mean I can't I have everything set I got all of my duplicated everything. So it was 499 for the duo and all the other stuff I need excluding the laptop I already had and everything 200 bucks. I got a wireless mouse. new wireless keyboard new MIDI controller already had the licenses for the for the software. And I bought I did buy high end mic booms that are very light they're made of like something not not metal. So we can take them on the road and they're not too heavy.

1:49:46 Dave Jones: This is not in your studio, you know no problem was Adam Curry: I was always breaking apart the studio and you're all the cables and then you have to really focus on it. You know usually after no agenda show that Okay, gotta pack up the studio and I'm tired and I'm worried I'm gonna forget one that one critical thing or the USB dongle or something and I'll be stuck somewhere without the winner not being able to do it so I just want complete duplicate and instead of duplicating the road caster two I got the duo and Dave Jones: we came up with a with a name of a cooking show only pans Adam Curry: I love it. You should do that on the no agenda tube. Only. Only pans that's Hold on a second. Don't move.

1:50:35 Let's see if that's let's let's see if that's available. Hold on. That's hilarious. Let me see. Add a domain. Bada bing bada bing as your only pans.com That's I'm sure that's taken. So on must have already taken that. Yeah, too bad. Yeah, it's already gone. Weren't weren't. Yeah, that's that was that's too good. You knew that one had to be gone. Dave Jones: You still don't have any. You don't have no agenda.com Do Adam Curry: we have? We have no agenda? dotnet? No, no. agenda.com has some bandhu. Let me see if they even have that. No agenda. I have see if they even have the website up. Now it's not even working. Oh, time to check it and see if it's Dave Jones: available. Err, empty response.

1:51:21 Adam Curry: Yeah, let me see. It'd be funny if it was available all of a sudden, is a band. Yeah, no agenda, Dave Jones: Doc, would they put their music on value for value? Adam Curry: Wouldn't that be great? That'd be funny. No. agenda.com Now I'm sure it's parked somewhere. It's such a waste. Me. Whatever. Hey, at least I didn't fall for that scam. The Crypto domain names remember that? Oh, yeah, that's thing evaporated in a heartbeat. That was if you look at the chart for H NS I think is what the let me see what it was. It was shape handshake. Yeah. So it was it was a crypto is H and S I'd like you need this to protect your domain name moving forever. And I think Didn't you even buy some?

1:52:05 Dave Jones: No, no, I didn't. I got an email and I ran it by you and you're like, This is BS. Run. Adam Curry: Run Run away. Can I still track them? Hold on h&s. Here we go. H and S as it is the chart straight up and straight down? No. At the time of the of the Scam. what I consider to be the scam? They hold on me. Let me go into it here for a second. Let me get the full on charts. The chart for all time. Yeah, it was it was up to like $1 I think. Right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it was up to up to bite us when they were selling him. Now all you got to have this. And I was like, No, this is dumb. And you know, you don't know what it was $1 or $1 actually. And yeah, well, they didn't rug pool. I mean, now it's 1.7 cents. Oh, because because it's all it was and notice the all these all these I saw him on the telegram group. And these people like hey, man, you know he could ever go ever pop. Will we ever seen anything happened now? Because it was it was dumb. They had a name so you couldn't even connect it? It doesn't work with DNS.

1:53:21 Dave Jones: But the is the dot eath is that still a thing? In everyone's getting dot eath for a while. No, I Adam Curry: don't know. Dave Jones: I haven't seen one of those and forever this this stuff is all it's just it's all such a scam. Adam Curry: Yeah. And a lot of people fell for it. Dave Jones: Oh, I bet because they sold it really well. I mean, they saw they had the marketing and I mean, like it was a full on push. Adam Curry: Yeah, you can you can get your web three username. Yeah, you can get dot eath it's just a top level domain name you can get that you can just pay for it. Is pay for it. And eath Okay, Dave Jones: grainy. This all is also painful. Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm sure that there's people just not true if you use an alternative name server. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course we can do that too. You don't you don't need to have crypto involved. And I say crypto because it's not Bitcoin.

1:54:15 Speaking of such, shall we thanks for people. Dave Jones: I would enjoy that. Okay, because Adam Curry: we have been yapping for quite a while. And let's see. I'm gonna thank some of the some of the live boosters Captain egghead. 1111 Thank you 3333 from hard hat, there's Dred Scott. Great tune boosting weighed destiny by Sarah Jade and he sure did boost he boosted 100,000 sets Thank you very much drive that always helps the artists now the 30 333 from hard hat. We got Captain egg head again with a short row of ducks. We got frozen. We're with 10,000 Hey, hey, finally caught you guys live. Thank you, rd. David R Davis at seven one a one a one. I can relate to you Adam even though I never launched the podcast yet the genius of my knowledge of podcasting came from a search on how to start internet radio station. There you go. In the boardroom please accept this episode boost for your most excellent discussion on the true podcaster and that's 141 SATs from our Davis. And there is oh goodness. 121,212 SATs who could it be once again Dred Scott boosting my passion project podcasting. 2.0 Thanks for letting me be a little part of it. You got a brother? They Thank you, brother. He is He is such a baller. 2100 from Macintosh screw Apple go open

1:55:45 podcasting Macintosh generation Bitcoin 8888 from anonymous says boosts boost we got another anonymous 10,100 love you guys and a 101010 that is 101,010 SATs from anonymous. It's been too long since I heard a boost come through so boost 14,496 from Sir TJ the wrathful you guys are doing great things. Here's all the SATs left in my wallet. Just take it and keep the lid down. Keep the lid down. Yeah, he he also listened to Kareem the keeper and I am a stickler for keeping the lid closed on the toilet.

1:56:30 Dave Jones: Oh I am too because if you don't you get a plume of gloom of poop. Poop Yes, every with every flush Adam Curry: and also it eliminates the whole problem of seat upside down just everybody closes the lid and everyone opens it to the level they need and closes it again. Dave Jones: It's the most egalitarian way Adam Curry: I see I think he had TJ the wrathful here in this place it's the only have 50 seconds and then why did we know she stayed here before? Because the toilet seats were down supposed to be this ogre who just walked on. yelled at me on our third date. The room around here if we need to sit down there's never an argument about what I said you want to stick around with the seat down? It's not to see you still want to stick around? There you go. Sir. TJ the rack

1:58:02 Dave Jones: Did you really say to Tina, babe. No, Adam Curry: of course not. That is my wife exaggerating. Dave Jones: You lift the seat up, baby. Adam Curry: I said we put the lids down around here. You want to stick around put the lid down? Dave Jones: Does mildly I will have to say agree with Tina that is mildly aggressive, very aggressive. We do this around here. There's an implicit bave that you don't have to say Adam Curry: eight years and we never had a fight. One on 101 from C Dubs. Let's go podcasting. He says yes, let's go podcast 55 555 from blueberry sorry, I don't have more SATs on hand will rectify soon. It is of my opinion that motion picture music videos are absolutely 69 69% possible using GIF art and chapters. Hopefully coming this week. I'll have a proof of concept to demo. Two. All right, we like that. And it doesn't matter what it is. Blueberry. It's the SATs is boosting is loving no matter what you do.

1:59:03 Dave Jones: Did you see my fancy new animated GIF? For the day for days rested code case? Adam Curry: No. No, I haven't. I haven't worked on that. And Dave Jones: I'll post it here. It's it's courtesy of blueberry. I paid him 100,000 said bounty for Adam Curry: it. Nice. Yeah. There's your economy working. He served me well. Very good. 33,000 from Carolyn says Hey, Adam and Dave Hey, Carolyn, thank you. There's your 1234 Yo boost bot there's Eric tp 3333 Boost boost boost but 3330 from hard hat again. 3333 testing from anonymous 1000 from Dave Thank you Dave. tastebuds said let's go 333 Another 333 333 from Eric p p there's our 50,000 from anonymous a 10,000 from Martin was boosting our amazing pre show. Another short row of Dr. Martin home again after a week in sunny Greece and happily listening not live again. Man. When those when those guys over there in Denmark they lose their job they go on vacation. That's about those guys. I got fired I'm going on vacation.

2:00:05 Dave Jones: It's the best time to go on vacation true. Adam Curry: And we got the pre boosts the boost boost via podcast gurus new lb integration from Dred Scott 100,001 SATs is that new podcast gurus new Alby I thought they already had lb integrations that new. Dave Jones: I mean, it's fairly new. It's been around for Adam Curry: about a month and a half gets podcast addict doing V for V. Are they still not doing that? No, Dave Jones: not yet. It was the you know, he may he may revisit that once. This is me talking has nothing to do his knees never said this. He may revisit it one day with now that there's things like Albay because at the time when he first explored it, it was nothing but it was only Ellen pay.

2:00:53 Adam Curry: He also had a lot of App Store challenges I think, in general, for some reasons that podcast addict I'm thinking of Yeah, right. Right. Right. They've given him such a hard time but not over yet burned. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure just for whatever reason is, is all kinds of disclaimers. Ya can't do stuff in the app. Dave Jones: Over time if it you know, if it persists and we don't get any appstore shenanigans, he may come back. Adam Curry: And then one more before I hit the delimiter and it is from the tone wrecker. refilled SATs in wallet feels like a fully charged battery now playing catch up for previous droopy boosts. When the cupboards were bare. 101010 Sakala 20 is blades only Ambala. Thank you. I love the digital nature of these binary boosts. They're so nice. Thank you all very much for live boosting. We appreciate it. If you're listening now. And you didn't consider rolling it back a little bit and boosting for for Sarah Jade for song. Hello, see Dave Jones: we got it. Yep.

2:01:58 Adam Curry: All right. And Dave will now take us through the rest of our donations. Dave Jones: Again, I had to reach down. We would get Franco Celerio or buddy ever cast ematic $100 through PayPal. Adam Curry: Wow. Hold on $100 through PayPal. Thank you very much. Dave Jones: And I asked him when he sent. Thank you very much Franco. I asked him when he sent in that donation. I said well tell me, you know, tell me tell me how's it going with cast? ematic? You know, Howard, have you had increase in premium users? You know, budgets general financial health. I mean, how was it how's your app do and and he said it was doing really well. He said that podcasting 2.0 The bear has really sort of elevated his his app store stuff and he's replaced so I was glad to hear that. So Adam Curry: he has a premium. I don't have iOS so I don't know he has a premium option as well where you can subscribe. Okay, good. Good. Yeah, that's right. And just support I like that.

2:02:58 You know, when I tell people to do this, I love it. I like cast thematic. So yeah, you know, Franco does you know what he does in his in his day job know why he's a doctor. What is Dave Jones: his day job is cast ematic he moonlights as a physician. Yeah, Adam Curry: I don't think so. He's probably still curing people most of the time. We love Franco. Dave Jones: We got Pedro Korea. I hope I'm saying that right. SEO or EIA Pedro Korea. $10. one time donation to PayPal. Adam Curry: Thank you very much Pedro note. Dave Jones: Appreciate that. Oh, yes, Mr. Graham's let's see we get 10,000 sets from certain net net. All it says is just because Mr. Gray, Adam Curry: thank you very much.

2:03:42 Dave Jones: Thank you, sir. Nana. We'll see we get 1701 from our Oh Archie. Source days gave us the boost CLI says boosting via vim Adam Curry: not really nice. I want to know how he's doing that. That is big flex. I like it though. Dave Jones: Okay, we have you we have our respect. Cotton Gin Bootmakers ball 333 says thank you cotton gin. Oh Darren No. To see he sent oh okay the way this is from last this from like at the very end of last show. Okay. Let's see. 73rd Did we read sir TJ the wrathful last week exciting music talk today I want to help even more but as a recovering musician and struggling just to survive Albert do we read that? Yeah, we did. Okay, some of these overlap I think we let the show went long last week so trying to Yeah, there we go. Make me catch up here. Yeah, after we got some after show tunes boosts from hard hat Thank you very much hard hat. We got a call McCormick to enter two year anniversary for booths holy Bitcoin Batman 22 through fountain we got a special Richard from call McCormick thank you to fountain he says the influencer game is real The more money is going into it. In my opinion, it's an entrepreneur's dream. V for v is the foundation. Most of these people are missing, though.

2:05:07 Adam Curry: Did you see Did you see that? People getting payouts from Twitter? No. And they were posting it? Yeah. So I've seen people getting $5,000.10. Of course, they have no 2 million followers. Dave Jones: Stay on the platform. No, it's, I guess Adam Curry: the way it works is they put advertising in the in the follow up tweets to your tweet. And every ad that is shown in those tweets, you get a piece of the action. And so yeah, some people were getting some some pretty big payouts, then very interesting. Dave Jones: Did you know that Twitter's getting sued by the by a conglomerate of music publishers?

2:05:51 Adam Curry: I think I did. Because, you know, they don't play the game. The game that everybody paid plays, is they pay 10s of millions of dollars a year, maybe even more than that for blanket licenses. And so, you know, that was really what bytedance said, what tic TOCs it is they were the first to get a full on as far as I know, to get not just a full on license, but also to make it available to their people so they could do all the stupid dances. And do and do it legally. And be out. And then of course Google and Facebook, they also all this is what the music industry is right with tick tock is the music business. Right. Dave Jones: And people just take people just take those videos and republish them on the other platforms. Yep. And Facebook paid. Yep. Yeah, Instagram and Twitter did not Adam Curry: Yeah, no, he's gonna lose out he's gonna lose that Dave Jones: he'll lose well, so one of the I don't have a last who this quote was from, but as it may have been the guy from Universal. He said, Twitter knows full well that music is leaked, launched and streamed by billions of people every day on his platform. No longer can it hide behind the DMCA and refused to pay songwriters and music publishers. That thought that was an interesting quote. No kidding. You know, he's like, he's like, no, no, no, no, you can't just say, hey, send a DMCA, and we'll take it down. That's not enough. You have to actively use one of these fingerprinting algorithms trip

2:07:26 proactive. Adam Curry: Oh, really? This is why we're doing we're doing good work here. Send me that image. Dave. I want to I want to put it on the I want to stream it. I can stream it. I can put it in the split kit and stream it. Dave Jones: Okay, that was the original Richard from Joel 1111 through fountain No, no, thank you. Thank you, Joe. Thank you. See we've got 2000 SAS from Rp 1984. Boosting for Dave's book club. Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go. Go is to start. Dave Jones: One 100 of the way to a road caster do Oscar marry 10,000 SATs through found he says I am against the shim for music and podcast index. wavelike has exactly what we need already set up and we should be pointing artists to WaveLight to get on boarded. Having only one music hosting company is not a problem in the short term. We just need to get things started and as long as WaveLight continue to support open RSS then others can come in later down the line. Let's all get behind wave lake for music hosting and try and build as big a catalog as we can. Which is the only way this will work.

2:08:31 Adam Curry: I think we I think we agreed on that. On the last show. I did not get a second on the motion and it was it was shelved and tabled to permanently you retracted it is I did. I will now yes I Dave Jones: retract every trial case now which I feel is better. Okay, anonymous 6666 in the nodige says rockin well thank you anonymous and he gave us another 6666 When no note bad career advice chats and as a bigger sexual Richard's 11 111 through fountain he says not gonna not gonna lie this Shem talk is making mas gloss over. Yeah, it's kind of the point. I've been Ride or Die since episode one. But this discussion was like a PhD thesis on the hypothetical application of string theory to the distribution of ceiling string from a can real problems necessary conversation, but this is a real grind of a board meeting boost to give him Sorry, bad career advice. Yeah, but we made up with it with great music. That's true. Jean being 2222 threes cast Matic is a spec wise maybe what we need is to codify a way to define a three tier authors. What whenever I hear three tier.

2:09:51 Adam Curry: I'm boosting you out of that. Three tier authorization is that like a secret handshake with a decoder ring Dave Jones: that thinks where you end up with one where you end up shaking them The guy's ankle spec was maybe we what we need is a to codify way to define a three tier authorization process where an O auth flow is tier one and automatically inserted TX T tags tier two in a manually added txt tags tier three. Oh, I see what he's saying. Okay. Yeah, okay, so it was Yeah, well maybe maybe maybe down the road Yeah, I mean there could be a spec Yeah, cuz he asked me what you mean. Yeah, that would that would be a separate spec, sort of like the namespace would be defined as the tags and then how to interact and then you could have a separate spec for this other thing which I truly that should be something that the podcast Energy Group does ah, that sounds like their bowl.

2:10:42 Adam Curry: Good luck was at Yeah Hey, um, if you pull up curio caster I think I'm now streaming your Star Man image. Dave Jones: How did you get it and you've seen it yet? Adam Curry: I will. Say baby baby. Father we're talking about sage man come on the lid down. Keep the lid down if you want to stick around Dave Jones: Oh, wait, we shouldn't be Adam Curry: working here. Casters should be working. Oh yes, I see. Dave Jones: Now you you just have so you had just new toys and I Adam Curry: have power I have powers this is cool. This is the split kid man once you figure it out. This is there's no going back and Dave Jones: that's a good look and Jeff and yeah, that's a Adam Curry: great look. And Jeff said that your your is is really tight.

2:11:30 Dave Jones: I know. I get that a lot if you knew how many times a day I hurt Adam Curry: yeah, I know. All right, and back to the value for value image. Okay, Dave Jones: and when Macintosh Oh, you just it just changed on my screen? Adam Curry: I did. How cool is that? Dave Jones: Macintosh 2100 sets great talk about peer tube stuff looking forward to integrating it into my setup Macintosh generation Bitcoin. Well, that'd be great. Macintosh right Oh, Jean being 10 grand cast Matic I really wish transcription services would allow you to submit individual tracks per speaker instead of just the merge mp3 as then there would be no issue with knowing who said what. Adam Curry: Oh, well. That's an interesting idea. I hadn't even thought of that. Not that I would do it but it's totally totally doable that way, I guess.

2:12:16 Dave Jones: Yeah, that sounds like a really neat idea. Jean been 20 to 22 guests mazes I hear y'all talk about Hello, Pat a lot. But it work with fountain or Alby as the wallet that receives the boosts. Not not as a current it's an lnd polar. Adam Curry: So you got to have you got to have a node. But Dave Jones: but the plan with hell Upad when I returned to it is to be able to boost back you know, do a reply boost in so in that I think I will actually put in support for the lb extension. Adam Curry: Ooh, yeah, that that would be great. If you can do that. That's a big win. Yeah, thanks. That's a big win.

2:12:58 Dave Jones: See, just listening for devices. There's one podcast where I don't skip through the ads. It is no dumb questions with destin Sandlin and Matt Whitman. An excellent podcast my entire family listens to and the ads are incredibly well done this is a native ad plus they have started reading ads from listeners who bid for an ad spot a very interesting idea in my mind. Thank you for all right the way it works. Thanks Jess listening. See you a couple here pretty pants 12345 Thank you pristine mountain says song booster song says tune tamer rhythm wrangler Oh these are these are song like show title suggestions. Oh Adam Curry: read them again. Song booster Dave Jones: song sets tune tamer rhythm wrangler and Jeep jammer Adam Curry: all interesting. These could be sub items within the show.

2:13:53 Dave Jones: Is this a follow up of another 12345 this is treasure tunes sketchy song master tracking tunes and Music Meister Adam Curry: these are all great little sub items for in the show. Thank you. Dave Jones: Jean basin is a 4k killer boosts with no no thank you. Jay made our Davis 87 No Sasha Richards 1111 sweating my Richard and busting a move to the music of detox. Go V for V music. Yeah, okay, detox is Alex's buddy. Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, of course. Of course. We played we played his stuff. Sure. Dave Jones: Jeff and his 4004 says with no note, thank you, Jeff. 10,333 from I am robot through fountain says got Masatoshi coffee ready for the board meeting. David Adam.

2:14:37 There's always a lot of discussions about the update of modern podcast apps. But what about the state of the podcast? Podcast hosting platforms on the index? Anyone that stands out or is running with scissors in the pipe? Adam Curry: Well, I mean, this does mean there's lots of lots of hosts who are who who support the the namespace items. Dave Jones: Yeah, for sure. Adam Curry: I don't know if anyone's done. Hands out per se. But, you know, we don't really play favorites, but we're happy with every host that supports anything from the namespace. And everyone has to go at their own pace. But But Lipson, where are ya? Dave Jones: It's easier to come up with a with a with a wall of shame. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Well, one guy we have not had on here and this is my fault one guy that we have been just completely neglected to talk to you is Dobie das Obrador says blue. Let's bring them on them. Yeah, we gotta we gotta get him on. I mean, I was just like bring them on a totally keep forgetting to reach out to him.

2:15:35 Adam Curry: But remember I promise I promised Oscar as soon as he released this that as soon as he's out with this new release we'll bring him on. Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Let's see. Okay. Oh, there it is. 1000 SATs Guy Smiley, V for V. That's all he says. Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you very much. Dave Jones: 5555 from Borlaug, no notes through pod verse. Thank you Borlaug boost boost satchel Richards 1111 from Pat back career advice chances pre boosting the show v for V yay, boost your comic strip blogger Adam Curry: dot the delimiter litter Dave Jones: 30 3015 through fountain he says. Howdy gringos David Adam, please invite your audience to use my chat GPT plugin in plugin store just search for podcast search usage usage examples. Number one, find podcasts about your revision.

2:16:36 Number two, get episodes have no agenda. Coming soon show notes, transcripts and large language model based data analysis. Yo CSB. Adam Curry: I like this. Thank you CSB. And I'm going to, I have a chat GPT account, I guess I'll try out Pro for a while. Which cost money just to try your your plugin, because I really appreciate you doing that I need I need to be able to see how it works and what it does. Dave Jones: And I need to do that too. Yeah, Adam Curry: I'll pay for it. For sure. Yeah, that's cool. And what's their model over there? If if I pay and I use your plug in? Do you get any money from it? Any do they have a split system? Dave Jones: Again? My guess is the model is give us Adam Curry: your free UK, you pay and we we take all the money?

2:17:25 Dave Jones: Yes, that's a model. That's the model. Just to guess it's just a guess. Adam Curry: By the way, I wanted to apologize to everybody who has liquidity through the podcast index node which is where all these all these sites stay on the node we use that for liquidity for people's channels. We were down for what was the Dave six hours maybe a while it was a while man, we don't know exactly what happened. But our voltage node went down or was taken down was restarted. Graham caught all the errors or something with we were running out of memory. We don't really know why this is we get attacked. I'm just gonna declared an attack. Okay, so we were DDoS. And but now the great thing about our node is it's a big AST node, b a n big AST node. Which is great because, you know, we can provide a lot of liquidity we have over 100 channels. The downside is that when you have one of those restarts bad restart, it has to go and rescan everything has to prune stuff is a lot of stuff that had to happen. And it basically took six hours I think before we before we completely got back up. So apologies for that. And if you need a reopening of a channel hit me up Dave Jones: yet, but I think we're good, right? Everything's everything's fine. But Adam Curry: yeah, we're in a five by five. Do we have any monthlies?

2:18:48 Dave Jones: We got some monthlies. You got basil Philip, good looking guy $25 not far behind the penultimate good looking Gob Lauren ball $24.20 Get Christopher Hora Barak $10 Mitch Downey Hey, Mitch $10. Terry Keller, longtime, longtime are the Adam Curry: humans description. He's known as the human subscription. $4.11 Dave Jones: Does he subscribe to everything? No, I Adam Curry: just is it $4.11? No, this, this was $5 Oh, okay. Usually he does some some cool number like that. Dave Jones: Jeffrey Rutherford. $5 Thank you Jeffrey, Chris cow and $5. Jeremy Kevin not in dollars. Damon Castle, Jack $15 Derek J Vickery, Derek J. Vickery, the best name in podcasting. $21 and Jeremy gerdts $5. Thank you guys.

2:19:42 Adam Curry: Thank you all so much for supporting podcasting. 2.0 not just the podcast, but the entire project, which is all value for value you put into it, what you get out of it. We provide it all to you at no charge and just send it back whatever it's worth to you. A lot of people say Hold us because they use the infrastructure. Some people just want to support podcasting. Whatever it is. It is all appreciated. Go to podcast index.org At the bottom you got two red buttons. I should probably check. I usually forget to do that. So no one's really done anything for the tally coin a long while but we'll see. You've got a Fiat fun coupon link for PayPal. And right there you can use. Let's see. 10th of July. Oh, how about that we got a tally coin checking from J moon. Hello, J Moon 22,257 SATs. Thank you very much. So you can move you can do it right there on chain or enlightening. But of course, we always recommend you go to podcast apps.com Get one of those brand new modern podcast apps import all your legacy podcast all work from whatever you're using right now.

2:20:48 Just toss that thing aside and use a modern podcast app so you can boost us and participate in the show and thank you all for supporting podcasting 2.0 Dave Jones: While while you were while you were doing that, I got a got an email from Sam. saying that we should be good to go on to rejoin the waitlist for pod fans. Oh, excellent. cleared out the he cleared out the funk egg. Adam Curry: Excellent. cleared out the Fung na. Yes. Yeah. Good. Dave Jones: I put both of our email addresses in there. So you should be getting a verification email to join good because Adam Curry: I'm stoked. I'm stoked to try this thing out. I mean, he's got so much in there.

2:21:35 Dave Jones: Yeah. And he said that he said that will get us on the waiting list, and then he'll approve our emails. Okay. So we're good to go. Adam Curry: Excellent. Excellent. Ah, man, we went overboard today. We went up. We're too too to know. Well, we did a row of ducks. Number today. Dave Jones: Oh, my cats trying to make my cats upset about this to try to get in the podcast. I don't know. I don't know what the problem is. Adam Curry: All right, brother. The I think we I think we've done it for today. All right. When are you on vacation? Yeah, that's two more weeks. The 28th. Dave Jones: Yeah, we're leaving the 24th and coming back on the 31st. Okay, and be out the 28th.

2:22:16 Adam Curry: Yeah. And I got in August somewhere. We're going to be in Europe, but we'll we'll work on that later. Dave Jones: We're going to California. Why? We're going to Yosemite. Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Well, that's not California. Great. We're Dave Jones: gonna get to California. Adam Curry: You know, we used to we used to have camp curry in Yosemite, I think. Did they change the name? Camp camp camp Curry was used to belong to my kin. Dave Jones: Oh, really? Yeah. Let me see. Interesting. Adam Curry: Let me see if it's, and then it was sold. And then now they call it Curry Village. Yeah, correct. Village, Curry Dave Jones: Village. We're actually not It's not we're not going to it's not Yosemite. Exactly. We're going to his below that. We're going to Sequoia National Forest.

2:22:59 Adam Curry: It's okay. Because, you know, I would have blocked you from Curry Village. Let him in. Keep that guy out. Now, there's a whole bunch of folklore about about it was camp curry nuggets. Now it's Curry Village. And one of my favorites, my great, great uncle. He will go up on on top of one of the mountaintops there. And they build a big bonfire at the end of the day, and then they'll all be up there and then he would yell let the fire footway, he would yell, let the fire fall. And they'd kick all of the fire off of that and would all fall down like a big waterfall of fire. That sounds impressive. Camp curry. Camp curry. Now Curry Village, Yosemite National Park.

2:23:43 Dave Jones: It says is it says Curry Village views beyond belief. Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, Dave Jones: I believe it Adam Curry: has dribs God's saying hey, there's some boosts. Yes, thank you very much. Our Davis 87 long row of ducks. 22,222 Steven B 3333. timer reset issue is fixed in the split kit. Here's $1. Dave Jones: Why didn't Why did you say the dollar dreads? Adam Curry: No. Well, I don't know Steve. He just boosting. And by the way, he says 3333 SATs is exactly $1 today Yes, it is more or less that? I guess. Yes. And our Davis 87. One on One on one correction typo from previous origin of knowledge of podcasting. Okay, we're all good. Everybody's good. Dubs.

2:24:30 Thanks for the outliner link. We all appreciate you very much. Thanks for being with us. Chat Room. Have a great weekend. Dave. My brother have yourself a good weekend. You too, man. Okay, we will be back next week for another board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 bring you refreshments we'll be expecting you see that Adios. Unknown: You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.com For more information Adam Curry: boosting is loving