Episode 122: We're Trending!

1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,600 Oh, podcasting 2.0 for February 17 2023, episode 122 we're 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,280 trending. Hello, everybody Friday once again time for the 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,500 board meeting. That's not your end, no no. ARD meeting of 4 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:21,870 podcasting. 2.0 everything happening with the future of 5 00:00:21,870 --> 00:00:25,530 podcasting, which of course is now podcasts index.org the 6 00:00:25,530 --> 00:00:28,980 podcast namespace everything happening at podcast index dot 7 00:00:28,980 --> 00:00:32,460 social. Yes, we are your raft of refuge in a sea of big tech 8 00:00:32,460 --> 00:00:35,280 sludge. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,420 Country on Alabama fresh from the API. Battlefield say hello 10 00:00:39,420 --> 00:00:41,670 to my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, the one 11 00:00:41,670 --> 00:00:45,270 and only podsafe Mr. Game Jones 12 00:00:47,850 --> 00:00:52,950 may have been a little too What would you call it? Like 13 00:00:53,010 --> 00:00:59,550 aggressive? No, no. vulnerable, too much bravado in what I could 14 00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:01,740 accomplish while you were doing the intro? Oh, you were 15 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:05,880 trying to announce our our liveliness our lateness are 16 00:01:06,450 --> 00:01:09,840 put into posted on podcast index dot social. Yeah, it was great. 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,980 And it was like 401401 You're not authorized to log in. Oh, 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,760 and then LastPass wants my wants my 27 character master password. 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:18,660 I'm gonna type it in and 20 00:01:19,170 --> 00:01:22,860 wait a minute. You're still on LastPass Yeah, but that thing's 21 00:01:22,860 --> 00:01:23,820 compromised. Brah 22 00:01:24,870 --> 00:01:27,690 notice, but I've got a fantastic password. 23 00:01:29,850 --> 00:01:31,950 It's still raising income. I thought it was I thought you're 24 00:01:31,950 --> 00:01:34,080 getting off that moving away. I thought you were discouraged. 25 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:34,710 Sad. 26 00:01:35,220 --> 00:01:40,380 I am. But I'm not in a hurry. I'm good. Yeah, no, no, I don't 27 00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:43,350 feel at risk. But I'm still I'm actually literally still trying 28 00:01:43,350 --> 00:01:44,550 to log in as we're talking. 29 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:53,910 I finally set up. What is that? Vault ward? No. No, not bid 30 00:01:53,910 --> 00:01:57,210 warden. It's the open safes on Umbro. It's an open source 31 00:01:57,210 --> 00:01:59,130 version. Hold on now. I gotta check it. 32 00:01:59,550 --> 00:01:59,820 Keep 33 00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:05,250 KeePass Yes, thank you. Okay. KeePass. So and So KeePass. I 34 00:02:05,250 --> 00:02:10,770 have an app, which is comes from the ever so trusted F droid. 35 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,400 Trust more than anything else, of course, and then I have the 36 00:02:14,490 --> 00:02:19,110 server side on my Umbral that I think is okay. 37 00:02:20,130 --> 00:02:25,560 I'm going to be a huge hypocrite on this. Because it has like 38 00:02:25,710 --> 00:02:29,250 something about the open source aspect of KeePass makes me 39 00:02:29,250 --> 00:02:32,850 uncomfortable. And it's not the code itself. It's not. It's not 40 00:02:32,850 --> 00:02:36,570 the core key pass code that bothers me because I feel I felt 41 00:02:36,570 --> 00:02:39,180 like that's great. I feel really good with an open source, 42 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:43,950 Password Manager, like the code itself. It's when I go to 43 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:48,930 install it on my phone from the App Store. And it's like, 44 00:02:48,930 --> 00:02:51,390 there's all these ones that are there, like KeePass apps, I'm 45 00:02:51,390 --> 00:02:53,370 like, oh, no, there's all of these people. Yes. 46 00:02:53,730 --> 00:02:58,230 Remember, I'm running graph, you know, as I use F droid. So 47 00:02:58,260 --> 00:03:00,540 there's a lot you know, there's a lot of checks and balances 48 00:03:00,540 --> 00:03:03,270 going on. i But you're absolutely right. There's other 49 00:03:03,270 --> 00:03:07,050 key pass apps which look exactly the same. And it's that to me, 50 00:03:07,050 --> 00:03:08,340 is the honeypot right there? 51 00:03:08,970 --> 00:03:13,680 Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, Who are you? Where's my sir? Where's 52 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,350 my passwords? Which server they go into? In what country? 53 00:03:16,410 --> 00:03:18,930 Well, I gotta wonder. I mean, for the longest time was just 54 00:03:18,930 --> 00:03:21,540 kind of keeping everything in the brave Password Manager. Is 55 00:03:21,540 --> 00:03:22,860 that a very bad idea? 56 00:03:23,970 --> 00:03:26,550 The brave Password Manager. Seems 57 00:03:27,060 --> 00:03:30,780 it seems to be pretty, pretty. I don't hear I never hear oh, my 58 00:03:30,780 --> 00:03:33,630 stuff got stolen. Although autofill can be a problem, 59 00:03:33,660 --> 00:03:37,080 right? You can have audit, like some JavaScript or something can 60 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,300 call for an autofill and you don't even know it and it's 61 00:03:39,300 --> 00:03:42,210 hidden under something and then before you know it, you know 62 00:03:42,210 --> 00:03:46,140 you've you bought yourself a trip to Kuala Lumpur on your 63 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:47,160 credit card. 64 00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:53,190 Congratulations on your travel miles. Yes, yeah, no, I think 65 00:03:53,190 --> 00:03:55,530 it's fine. It's just like it stores it locally. The only 66 00:03:55,530 --> 00:03:58,020 attack vector there is if something gets in your machine 67 00:03:58,020 --> 00:04:01,860 or if there's a zero day in, in the Chrome chromium core but I 68 00:04:01,860 --> 00:04:05,250 mean, like that's see that's the whole thing of like once 69 00:04:05,250 --> 00:04:08,610 somebody gets in your machine I mean, all bets are off already. 70 00:04:09,780 --> 00:04:15,690 Yeah, but anyway, we are lit we're living live that means the 71 00:04:15,690 --> 00:04:19,020 show is recorded live to tape and before his live studio 72 00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:23,760 audience there at our in our chat room. If you're using pod 73 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,450 verse, if you're using podcast addicts, you probably got an 74 00:04:27,450 --> 00:04:31,680 alert if you're subscribed, and you ask for alerts and you open 75 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,230 it up you got where you get all your podcasts What do you get 76 00:04:34,230 --> 00:04:36,990 immediately you you got the chat room you got the the live 77 00:04:36,990 --> 00:04:41,100 stream, curio caster could be streaming it live with many more 78 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:44,850 to come soon. And you can now see all of the new apps at our 79 00:04:44,850 --> 00:04:52,440 handy new URL, podcast apps.com Now, yes, podcast app. So guess 80 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:58,110 what's not on there. Oh, Apple's not on there. is Amazon's not on 81 00:04:58,110 --> 00:05:02,280 that Google's Spotify. No Podcast apps.com This is where 82 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:03,870 you go to get your podcast apps. 83 00:05:05,940 --> 00:05:08,580 This is sang to you Marcus couch. Thank 84 00:05:08,580 --> 00:05:09,870 you Marcus couch. 85 00:05:10,260 --> 00:05:11,940 That had to be expensive. 86 00:05:12,030 --> 00:05:15,090 That's why I said don't give it to us, man. Just you keep it. 87 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:18,510 Yeah, you just forward it. Yeah, I don't know. What do you paid 88 00:05:18,510 --> 00:05:19,920 for it? You won't they'll never tell me. 89 00:05:22,140 --> 00:05:24,840 They didn't give them glad. Because then you can sell it 90 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:28,800 later. Yeah. And all of a sudden it'll become become a Kuala 91 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:29,910 Lumpur travel site. 92 00:05:32,370 --> 00:05:39,030 Podcast apps No, not podcast.com No, I know. No, no. podcast 93 00:05:39,030 --> 00:05:41,550 apps.com podcast.com That never turned into any good business as 94 00:05:41,550 --> 00:05:46,170 far as I know who is podcast.com I remember that was like, at 95 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:52,260 once. Mark. Once Mark Cuban had broadcast.com and got $2 billion 96 00:05:52,650 --> 00:05:56,820 for it. Oh, is the podcast just audible? What is this 97 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,970 podcast? podcast.com goes to Audible 98 00:06:00,030 --> 00:06:06,180 is that audible? I podcast.com I have a simple and affordable all 99 00:06:06,180 --> 00:06:08,520 on one podcast hosting and management platform. 100 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,060 Now when I type in podcast.com He goes straight as a redirect. 101 00:06:12,060 --> 00:06:12,210 What 102 00:06:12,210 --> 00:06:16,740 do you have? podcasts or podcasts? No, just with a T. Oh, 103 00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:22,200 okay. Yeah. podcast.com goes to Yes, of course. Audible. Yes. 104 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:22,800 There you go. 105 00:06:23,669 --> 00:06:25,109 They should donate it to us too. 106 00:06:25,169 --> 00:06:29,459 Yeah, douche bags. I mean, juice sacks. Juice punctures. 107 00:06:31,230 --> 00:06:33,030 Audible what we're here. Yeah, we're 108 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:37,380 ready for it anytime. Yeah. Ah, well 109 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:44,790 well, this base milkshake is not right. I dumped this in in a 110 00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:49,170 hurry. I barely made it here for the show. And I like I did like 111 00:06:49,170 --> 00:06:51,240 10 ounces of milk and I was like, Oh, that's a lot of milk. 112 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:52,080 So I'm just gonna dump 113 00:06:52,470 --> 00:06:56,340 Oh, you just you just oh no, no, no, no, now it's like a digital. 114 00:06:56,370 --> 00:06:59,730 It's just a big Gillette like I can't this isn't drinking 115 00:07:00,270 --> 00:07:07,770 this is not again there we go up to Dred Scott right away 333,333 116 00:07:07,770 --> 00:07:11,100 SATs it's been so long waiting for a podcast like this Don't be 117 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:17,490 a juice pouch donate support the index go podcast. Yeah, baby. 118 00:07:17,490 --> 00:07:19,830 Oh, you're in Yeah. 119 00:07:19,890 --> 00:07:21,840 333 threes. Whoa, 120 00:07:21,870 --> 00:07:23,790 it's a super magic number boost. 121 00:07:24,539 --> 00:07:25,649 God thank you Jared. 122 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,590 Yeah, just fantastic. And we have a jingle for that 123 00:07:28,590 --> 00:07:29,820 somewhere. We have. 124 00:07:31,770 --> 00:07:33,180 We have a we have a drip. 125 00:07:33,599 --> 00:07:36,899 No, we should have a drip jingle now we have a magic number 126 00:07:36,899 --> 00:07:37,349 jingle 127 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,810 magic number there you go. By the way, I've only got only 128 00:07:48,810 --> 00:07:52,440 brought one clip boardroom today and I mean it's you can just 129 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,960 fire it will on that. Anytime you feel Froggy. 130 00:07:55,590 --> 00:07:58,140 Oh, well, I'll hold on for a second. Okay, I won't do 131 00:07:58,140 --> 00:08:01,680 anything. Thank you Dr. This is of course the instant feedback 132 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,330 mechanism that is being lit with our booster grams. Mad before we 133 00:08:06,330 --> 00:08:08,460 get started, I want to I want to get a little update from the 134 00:08:08,460 --> 00:08:11,460 battlefields last night all of a sudden you're posting about 135 00:08:11,550 --> 00:08:15,420 you're fighting with with some scraper or some someone hitting 136 00:08:15,420 --> 00:08:19,230 the API over a million times. And I have a question but first 137 00:08:19,230 --> 00:08:21,600 I just like to get the updated for Are you okay? Are you 138 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,720 wounded? Everything? Everything? Functioning? You have all your 139 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:25,530 limbs still? 140 00:08:26,130 --> 00:08:29,460 Like a little bit shrapnel in the knee than than MRI? Yeah, 141 00:08:29,460 --> 00:08:33,870 I've made it through smell like smoke, but I'm alright. The No 142 00:08:33,870 --> 00:08:37,980 it was this. Somebody. Let me go back. Let's see the origin 143 00:08:37,980 --> 00:08:42,300 story. Oh, John Spurlock said the other day, maybe three days 144 00:08:42,300 --> 00:08:45,540 ago. He's like, hey, something's going on around four o'clock in 145 00:08:45,540 --> 00:08:48,330 the morning every night for like the last couple. Three. 146 00:08:48,930 --> 00:08:52,020 First question. What's he doing at four o'clock in the morning? 147 00:08:53,010 --> 00:08:54,060 That's my question. 148 00:08:55,350 --> 00:08:57,330 I didn't ask him world domination. 149 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:03,360 No doubt world domination. That's what he's doing. Alright, 150 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,420 so what was going on? And it's not just last night, it's every 151 00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:08,550 night now, I guess or happened before? 152 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,780 Well, I'm like, Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, our 153 00:09:12,780 --> 00:09:17,700 crack system monitoring technology that you know, tells 154 00:09:17,700 --> 00:09:20,790 me anytime there's a hiccup God didn't get an alert and alert. 155 00:09:21,180 --> 00:09:23,820 Me. So this was a sophisticated you know why? Because there's 156 00:09:23,820 --> 00:09:26,070 not one. Oh, okay. Yeah, 157 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,160 that would explain that. So when this happens is this does this 158 00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:34,170 suck up resources that a Gemini thing? Or what is the result to 159 00:09:34,170 --> 00:09:36,210 us? Performance wise? 160 00:09:36,660 --> 00:09:39,480 Well, look, I looked back and I was like, I don't know that 161 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,930 there's something going on. And then I did with no with no 162 00:09:42,930 --> 00:09:46,740 information at all. I did what every good SIS admin does. I 163 00:09:46,740 --> 00:09:52,260 blamed Cloudflare. I said it's probably cloud flares now. And 164 00:09:52,260 --> 00:09:54,450 that was just a buy me time so I could actually go and look and 165 00:09:54,450 --> 00:09:58,260 see what really happened. So then, I went and looked and it 166 00:09:58,260 --> 00:10:01,830 was like, around At times, some started like three o'clock in 167 00:10:01,830 --> 00:10:04,830 the morning went to about five. For the last like two or three 168 00:10:04,830 --> 00:10:08,700 nights and rows, it was just hammer time on the on the API. 169 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,960 And I thought, okay, that's weird. So I look back. And I 170 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,770 have a couple of scripts that I can run that looks at the logs 171 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,450 from the previous, like, 24 hours or so. It'll tell me, 172 00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:25,770 which developer account has hit the most, and how many hits they 173 00:10:25,770 --> 00:10:29,220 had over a certain timeframe. So I just ran that. And it was like 174 00:10:29,220 --> 00:10:32,520 some, you know, it's always the same, you know, people that it's 175 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:38,010 very, it's a very, you know, a very common pattern. I mean, 176 00:10:38,010 --> 00:10:40,680 it's like always, you know, fountain pod first, you know, 177 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,590 all these kinds of things. So, and then it was just some, you 178 00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:47,220 know, Rando out of nowhere, it was like, 10 times as much 179 00:10:47,220 --> 00:10:50,520 traffic as anybody even close. I was like, Okay, this is this is 180 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:55,140 out of control. So it was some rando Gmail address with a bunch 181 00:10:55,140 --> 00:10:58,440 of numbers, and no, you know, no constant, you know, no vowels in 182 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,770 it. So I just deleted that guy. And then he comes back under a 183 00:11:01,770 --> 00:11:08,760 different Gmail address. Like yesterday, and same guy random. 184 00:11:08,970 --> 00:11:12,120 Now you are assuming gender, which I think is very dangerous. 185 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:17,700 If this was a woman, I would actually love to know that 186 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:25,350 because that would be that would be a first. I've never seen a 187 00:11:25,740 --> 00:11:29,670 NFC I've never seen a hacker, like any of the mug shots or any 188 00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:32,340 of these arrests that Europol does, where they do it and never 189 00:11:32,340 --> 00:11:34,260 seen a woman in any of these groups. 190 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:36,900 That only happens in the movies. There wasn't literally in 191 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:39,840 hackers, the movie Hackers, it was our matrix. Yeah, checks. 192 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,900 Yeah, we're in the matrix. Exactly. Yeah. How disingenuous 193 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:43,410 is that? 194 00:11:43,890 --> 00:11:46,380 Can we get that to happen, please? Because really, that's 195 00:11:46,380 --> 00:11:50,850 great. But it is whoever this woman was that intro started 196 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,230 hammering the API came back, no different by hammering, sorry, 197 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:59,370 as in and just let us have it again. This time, three and a 198 00:11:59,370 --> 00:12:02,730 half million requests, oh, about an hour and a half. 199 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,370 But now this isn't I presume this is not a denial of service 200 00:12:05,370 --> 00:12:07,320 request. This is just someone who doesn't know that you can 201 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,690 actually download a copy of the database. 202 00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:14,400 I believe that's always what these are. In woman though, even 203 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:20,220 though it says in, I put in the API response, the win rate, 204 00:12:20,220 --> 00:12:24,330 limit them the response, you can download everything, yes, with a 205 00:12:24,330 --> 00:12:29,640 link to it. And they just keep going, just keep going. 206 00:12:29,699 --> 00:12:32,159 Oh, man, that's now what do you think that they're doing this 207 00:12:32,159 --> 00:12:34,919 for? I mean, I would first of all, if anyone's doing this, I 208 00:12:34,919 --> 00:12:37,979 presume most of them are trying to get email addresses. That 209 00:12:37,979 --> 00:12:42,899 seems to be the the main I love the people who try to encode 210 00:12:42,899 --> 00:12:47,489 podcasts. index.org Hey, hey, you know, I'm I'm experimenting 211 00:12:47,489 --> 00:12:53,459 with something funny. I can't get the email addresses. I'm 212 00:12:53,459 --> 00:12:55,739 just just a little guy over here. Just doing a little thing 213 00:12:55,739 --> 00:12:57,659 on my Raspberry Pi. You know, 214 00:12:59,460 --> 00:13:02,310 I noticed and I noticed the email addresses are missing from 215 00:13:02,310 --> 00:13:07,050 the responses. Am I doing it wrong? Email address is like Joe 216 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:13,530 Joe at podcast marketing.com or something? Yeah. I think we have 217 00:13:13,530 --> 00:13:16,740 mitigations in place, which I do not want to speak of. I do not 218 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:21,180 want to give give our adversaries. This top is 219 00:13:21,180 --> 00:13:26,160 classified information. Yes. Highly, highly classified. 220 00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:29,460 Oh, man. That's too funny. Well, I'm sorry. You had to go through 221 00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:34,500 that. But it is what it is. But people please. The we should we 222 00:13:34,500 --> 00:13:39,540 should put it somewhere on the website. Hey, don't put her up. 223 00:13:39,540 --> 00:13:43,620 Right. If you want to use our API to scrape just download it. 224 00:13:44,250 --> 00:13:49,950 Here you go. And by the way, send us a donation. Juice pouch. 225 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:53,460 I'm digging that that's dred Scott's we're like I'm I'm 226 00:13:53,460 --> 00:13:55,890 digging that his kids aren't allowed to say douche bag at 227 00:13:55,890 --> 00:14:00,300 home. So they use juice pouch, which I think is is a nice PG 228 00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:01,590 version. Well, 229 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:03,960 when my when my son was little he was like, I don't know if 230 00:14:04,170 --> 00:14:08,310 four five, something like that. He said something happened. He 231 00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:11,940 said, Oh my God. And Melissa and Melissa was like, don't grant 232 00:14:11,940 --> 00:14:15,870 don't take God's name in vain. Don't do that. He's like, can I 233 00:14:15,870 --> 00:14:22,680 say oh my mouse? Yeah, sure. Sure. He's like, cool. Every 234 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,010 year. Yeah, we just looked at each other like, weird. 235 00:14:27,630 --> 00:14:30,720 Well, it was it was a rough, actually kind of a rough week 236 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,360 for for servers for us. The podcast index 237 00:14:36,390 --> 00:14:39,960 node. Yeah, channel pocalypse is what this well yeah, 238 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,130 I'm gonna I calling it the nostrils. Zap zap crash. Okay. 239 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,950 So I noticed I'm not even sure exactly what I noticed. Now I 240 00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:53,940 noticed channels went down which is not a crazy thing because the 241 00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:57,930 Lightning Network just seems to do this from time to time. And I 242 00:14:57,930 --> 00:15:01,530 got I got a post or an email Hey, man, what did I do wrong? 243 00:15:01,530 --> 00:15:04,950 Why did you close the channel on me? How can I improve my 244 00:15:04,950 --> 00:15:10,050 behavior? My Why do you talk to people in websites? What? Right? 245 00:15:10,230 --> 00:15:14,700 When, when a when a lightning node closes, and it has forced 246 00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,520 closed, which I don't think I've ever forced close to channel 247 00:15:17,550 --> 00:15:21,720 ever, ever. But you get the message force close and I get 248 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,770 forced because we both get it on each end. And then people take 249 00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:28,440 offense to that, like, Hey, man, what do you do? 250 00:15:28,950 --> 00:15:31,440 It's an aggressive name for force close. 251 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,280 Yeah. Yeah, you're right, it is kind of aggressive. And when you 252 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:43,830 do a force close, then the predetermined close amount comes 253 00:15:43,830 --> 00:15:47,640 in action. So there's a timeout, which also can be, it can be a 254 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,090 week, in some cases, usually, it's a day or a couple of days, 255 00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:54,960 I tried to set it reasonably low. But this was at the same 256 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,840 time that the Bitcoin transaction fees were in the 257 00:16:00,870 --> 00:16:05,850 high teens and low 20s. Because of this nominals with this 258 00:16:05,850 --> 00:16:12,030 ordinals mining business. Now, people are like, Oh, I'm going 259 00:16:12,030 --> 00:16:16,920 to encode something into the blockchain on this set. And so 260 00:16:16,950 --> 00:16:21,960 the blocks are supposed to be one by one meg in size, and they 261 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,070 seem to be encroaching to quite regularly. But the next block 262 00:16:26,070 --> 00:16:31,050 over will be 300 500 megabytes. So So yeah, so the transaction 263 00:16:31,050 --> 00:16:34,020 fees are just by the way, my two little miners here at home, I'm 264 00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:36,750 doing two bucks a day. I'm rockin and rollin here, I'm 265 00:16:36,750 --> 00:16:38,100 printing money. And 266 00:16:39,810 --> 00:16:42,870 this is, I looked into this a little bit, I'd love to hear 267 00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:44,130 your thoughts on the ordinals thing. 268 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,480 Well, let me get through the ZAP zap crash first. Alright, so um, 269 00:16:48,510 --> 00:16:53,070 so Now luckily, we host this node at at voltage and I love 270 00:16:53,070 --> 00:16:56,550 what and we've had it there from day one. And Graham is the man 271 00:16:56,550 --> 00:16:59,790 who does not sleep. It doesn't matter what time I ping him. It 272 00:16:59,790 --> 00:17:03,630 could be you know, three in the morning 9am 11 At night, he's 273 00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:05,400 always there always. 274 00:17:05,790 --> 00:17:08,820 And I don't understand how he does mean either mean either. 275 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,900 And this I think this is in the morning and I see like this 40 276 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:21,720 channels close. I'm like, Oh, what is going on? So and in this 277 00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:25,140 just in just to try and get into the node was something like 278 00:17:25,140 --> 00:17:28,410 thunder hub is a lot of joke at this point. And the thunder hub 279 00:17:28,410 --> 00:17:32,160 just crashes we it's we have so many transactions. It's so we 280 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,750 had a 16 gigabyte size database. So I say to Graham said, Hey, 281 00:17:36,750 --> 00:17:39,930 Graham, man, I got a whole bunch of force closures. I didn't do 282 00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:45,360 anything. And so we're looking at it together. And he says, 283 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,390 Huh, says well, why don't we just restart it just for good 284 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:51,960 measure and see what see what comes back up this thing? After 285 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,100 an hour, it doesn't come back up. So now so now every every 286 00:17:56,100 --> 00:17:59,670 sysadmin knows the trickle of sweat down your butt crack at 287 00:17:59,670 --> 00:18:05,940 this point. Oh man, and you know, it was What day was it? It 288 00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:10,380 was was it maybe a Monday? It was 289 00:18:12,030 --> 00:18:13,080 Sunday? No, 290 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,930 I came on Sunday. Now it was a Monday because I knew and I 291 00:18:15,930 --> 00:18:19,710 noticed that too. You know my one of my pod father unbel node 292 00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:24,450 went down which is not irregular but okay. But also my other node 293 00:18:24,450 --> 00:18:28,860 which I usually use to secure backups everything transpires 294 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:29,820 the node my 295 00:18:29,820 --> 00:18:32,970 own bro, mambo got stuck here at home too. And I had to I had to 296 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,230 reboot. Yeah, 297 00:18:34,410 --> 00:18:39,420 exactly, exactly. So this was a little uncommon behavior that 298 00:18:39,420 --> 00:18:46,290 the nodes were literally trashed. So, so now Graham's 299 00:18:46,290 --> 00:18:48,870 like, alright, well hold on a second. He's like, let me make a 300 00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:52,350 backup on my end. Now I'm now my browsers is like wet. 301 00:18:54,150 --> 00:18:55,380 Oh, it didn't say the B word. 302 00:18:56,010 --> 00:19:01,320 Because we know we know, we know how fragile all this stuff 303 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,650 really can be. And ultimately, I think Graham has, he can do a 304 00:19:04,650 --> 00:19:07,950 lot on his end. But like if we if we lose the password, we're 305 00:19:07,950 --> 00:19:10,770 screwed. I mean, there's no way you're not bringing that thing 306 00:19:10,770 --> 00:19:15,360 back up. He has no access to that. So and then we go into 307 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:20,310 compact ng mode. And it's three now but and that's midnight, and 308 00:19:20,310 --> 00:19:23,370 I give up. And it's our it's been going for three hours now. 309 00:19:23,370 --> 00:19:27,900 And so this node has been down almost all day. And I'm not I'm 310 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:33,030 not having a good time. And so comes back up in the middle of 311 00:19:33,030 --> 00:19:36,360 the night, of course not functional because at 3am I had 312 00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,540 to unlock the node which I couldn't do because I was 313 00:19:39,540 --> 00:19:44,070 asleep. I had to go to sleep. And then I just didn't hear that 314 00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:45,990 I did have my phone on but I didn't hear the ping from 315 00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:49,560 Graham. So like 6am I unlocked the node. It's coming back I 316 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,800 have great the database has shrunk. We've compacted from 16 317 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,070 gigabytes to eight. By the way. How sexy is this Tech Talk come 318 00:19:56,070 --> 00:20:00,630 out of my mouth huh? EMR. 319 00:20:01,650 --> 00:20:03,000 I'm gonna go back and listen later. 320 00:20:03,090 --> 00:20:07,710 So we're like, okay, trying to figure out what's going on. And 321 00:20:07,950 --> 00:20:12,090 Graham says, wow, there's like, over 150 channel closes last 322 00:20:12,090 --> 00:20:15,570 night or yesterday across the Lightning Network. And we start 323 00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:21,510 investigating. So what's going on? Well, turns out that damos, 324 00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:28,200 the the Jack Dorsey endorsed Jack and Dorsey noster app 325 00:20:28,590 --> 00:20:33,720 released this zap functionality, which I'm a little confused if 326 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:40,920 it's ln pay ln URL payment system, or if it's key send, I'm 327 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,270 not quite sure. But I know what happened is we have so we we 328 00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:49,590 have typically about 100 Plus channels open to a lot of 329 00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:54,090 smaller nodes, which were which we love doing, we love providing 330 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,030 the liquidity, which is everything that comes into the 331 00:20:57,030 --> 00:21:00,630 index node is turned around and is used for liquidity to anybody 332 00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:02,010 who needs it. Basically, 333 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,490 we've had as many as like, 145 channels open pretty big. 334 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,410 Yeah, it's been very now that well, that definitely got 335 00:21:07,410 --> 00:21:13,650 cleaned out. With that, so here's what happened. Cuz Graham 336 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,530 would, you know, Jesus, I think this is related. And then he 337 00:21:16,530 --> 00:21:20,340 started digging in. So this was a beta release from from damos. 338 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:29,130 The app and one bad HDLC can really screw up the note. And as 339 00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:32,430 it turns out, we got a lot there's a high correlation 340 00:21:32,430 --> 00:21:36,810 between people who are connected to podcast index or their node 341 00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:42,210 and who also use noster. Of course there is and so so there 342 00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:46,980 were tons of, of zaps as they're called flowing routing through 343 00:21:47,010 --> 00:21:52,260 our node and at least one but probably multiple HTL sees the 344 00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:56,670 hash time lack of time lock. What is the contract contract? 345 00:21:57,060 --> 00:22:00,750 That were either bogus or corrupted somewhere? I mean, 346 00:22:00,930 --> 00:22:04,950 something is something went wrong. And that crashed our node 347 00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:12,960 hard. And I think actually, Sir, sir, sir Pate, I think in in the 348 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,910 Netherlands. Let me see. He said, Oh, yeah, I had my Nasr 349 00:22:17,910 --> 00:22:22,230 stuff hooked up there was a lot of fun. Why did you Why Why? Why 350 00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:28,080 did you close the my channel? Is it Why didn't close it? Cost 351 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,970 Palin. There we go cost Pinto? Yeah. So and he's like, oh, 352 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,090 yeah, he ran late. Yeah, he ran it last weekend, he had to 353 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,560 nostra relay, you know, just a whole bunch of a whole bunch of 354 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,910 stuff running on routing through us. And I'm not saying was his 355 00:22:44,910 --> 00:22:48,660 node specifically. I don't know. But but it clearly was a noster. 356 00:22:49,290 --> 00:22:54,000 This zap thing that just that just totally, yeah, totally 357 00:22:54,420 --> 00:22:58,500 screwed our node. So I've been very slow to reopen channels, 358 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:00,450 I'm waiting for people to come on and say, Hey, you closed my 359 00:23:00,450 --> 00:23:04,890 channels. And no, I didn't. It happy to open it up. But please 360 00:23:04,890 --> 00:23:07,620 don't use it as your nostril recipient node, because it's 361 00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:10,170 just crazy. And there are limitations. You know, there's 362 00:23:10,170 --> 00:23:13,200 limitations on stuff. And we had another. So one of the problems 363 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,610 we had, which I found out as people were trying to send 364 00:23:17,610 --> 00:23:20,820 booster grams to carry in the keeper, which, like comic strip 365 00:23:20,820 --> 00:23:25,110 blogger is one of them. And he and he was getting errors on on 366 00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:29,970 my note, which at this point was reconnected to podcast index. 367 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,310 And he was doing it from fountain and he was not getting 368 00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:36,600 through to me. And so I do some more digging turns out one of 369 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,630 the channels that closed which doesn't surprise me, I'm sure 370 00:23:39,630 --> 00:23:43,800 lots of people were using their fountain address as the place to 371 00:23:43,830 --> 00:23:46,500 you know, to zap to I think, yeah, just think, 372 00:23:47,220 --> 00:23:49,200 you know, they would I mean, I would think 373 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,490 so yeah, I would think so. So that channel got closed, and 374 00:23:53,490 --> 00:23:57,060 then whatever routing there was, and they were so intermittent 375 00:23:57,060 --> 00:24:00,840 that, you know, on the day that we do our show every 14 days, on 376 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,000 the day that we do the show, people were trying to boost from 377 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,720 fountain booster grams, and they were failing. And those are just 378 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,840 the ones that who noticed it. So huge cacophony. And then we 379 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,800 started looking into it. Anyway, Oscar opened up a new channel to 380 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,740 us. So that's good. It's just all fragile. It's really 381 00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:23,340 fragile. And it was it was nuts. And honestly, I don't think 382 00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:26,640 noster is worth the trouble at this point. Because I have a 383 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,450 couple apps with noster now it's like, oh, really went offline. I 384 00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:34,710 have a 1500 followers today have 273 You know, it's like, oh, 385 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,580 yes, that 300 You know, stuff doesn't come through it. The 386 00:24:38,670 --> 00:24:43,230 it's not primetime yet. It really isn't. If it ever will be 387 00:24:43,380 --> 00:24:46,920 in this use case of like a Twitter. I'm not so sure. You 388 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,950 know, listening to what Alex Gabe said was who by the ways? 389 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:55,440 He's 31 he's not he's, he's I thought he was younger. Why do 390 00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:02,100 you think I'm a Zoomer? Aren't you 24/7 Oh, no, man, I was old 391 00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:04,920 is your daughter? Oh, that makes me feel good. Thanks feel much 392 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:05,430 better. 393 00:25:07,259 --> 00:25:11,249 I think the I don't really understand the use case either. 394 00:25:11,249 --> 00:25:16,469 I mean not noster for that you implement it, I can envision it 395 00:25:16,559 --> 00:25:19,829 certain things it'd be in good for but like that we have 396 00:25:19,829 --> 00:25:24,629 Mastodon and activity pub and these open. I don't understand 397 00:25:24,719 --> 00:25:30,209 why this is really a thing. I mean, I don't ask it for, ya 398 00:25:30,210 --> 00:25:32,550 know, we're asking for a lot of hate. So I'm not really 399 00:25:32,550 --> 00:25:35,250 interested in a lot of hate. And I mean, I'm on it, you know, 400 00:25:35,250 --> 00:25:38,640 I'm, I'm along for the ride. I'm interested. I'm trying to get it 401 00:25:38,970 --> 00:25:41,940 to figure it out. And the experiences vary all over the 402 00:25:41,940 --> 00:25:44,670 map, you know, unless you're on damos, which I'm sure it has 403 00:25:44,670 --> 00:25:47,940 their own relay. And, you know, but that's kind of a closest, 404 00:25:47,940 --> 00:25:50,280 and if you're out on the edge, you screwed. 405 00:25:50,969 --> 00:25:54,269 Well, Spencer said, if an HDLC gets stuck and expires, all the 406 00:25:54,269 --> 00:25:57,659 channels along that route will close. There you go. It's an 407 00:25:57,659 --> 00:25:58,589 Automatic Pro. Yeah, 408 00:25:58,590 --> 00:26:03,540 that's right. That's right. That's exactly what what Graham 409 00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:07,140 said, if it expires and everything along the route. 410 00:26:07,140 --> 00:26:08,430 That's right. That's right. 411 00:26:09,810 --> 00:26:13,260 So I mean, on the on the ordinals thing, though, 412 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:19,800 before I get to that one last bit, one last bit of data. I 413 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,200 asked Graham, is there a limitation? To how many key send 414 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:29,790 transactions you can do at one time? I say, is there a, is 415 00:26:29,790 --> 00:26:33,840 there a limitation, the server limitation? Or is there an it 416 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:40,410 turns out, per lightning channel? There's a limitation of 417 00:26:40,410 --> 00:26:47,070 428 in flight H TLCS. At a time. That's the protocol limit per 418 00:26:47,070 --> 00:26:50,610 channel. It's unlikely we hit that unlikely we will hit that. 419 00:26:50,610 --> 00:26:53,790 But it's I mean, it could it could easily happen from from a 420 00:26:53,790 --> 00:26:54,690 channel like fountain. 421 00:26:56,130 --> 00:27:01,140 If you have 428 Fountain users all sending a key send at the 422 00:27:01,140 --> 00:27:04,260 same time. Yeah, it could happen. It could have for sure. 423 00:27:04,260 --> 00:27:08,190 And that tells me that that tells me that for for the big 424 00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:14,190 channels like like fountain or LNP? Or we should be we should 425 00:27:14,190 --> 00:27:15,090 have multiple channels 426 00:27:15,090 --> 00:27:19,770 channels. Exactly. Alright. Ordinis ordinals? Yeah, so 427 00:27:19,890 --> 00:27:23,160 the ordered, like interest in general, I kind of want to know 428 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,140 your general thoughts. But it to me, to me the this idea of using 429 00:27:29,010 --> 00:27:35,280 the side of using SegWit as sort of this freaky side chain thing 430 00:27:35,910 --> 00:27:39,120 is I don't think it's a side chain thing. Well, 431 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,050 I mean, in quotes, I mean, it's definitely it's the way that as 432 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,040 that I read about it being described how it was working, it 433 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,490 used that term in quotes, but I mean, it is sort of a, you're 434 00:27:50,490 --> 00:27:54,600 stuffing that transaction into a places is really, I mean, by by 435 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,770 protocol design, it could get you know, it's fine. But like 436 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,040 you end up with, so what are we supposed to do, we're supposed 437 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,890 to end up with blockchains that are gigantic, that we then go 438 00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:07,200 back and purge all this stuff out of now. 439 00:28:07,380 --> 00:28:10,530 That's the way I understand it. And I'm probably getting this 440 00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:14,070 wrong, I thought it's more like new mastics where, you know, oh, 441 00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:18,240 this is a very rare Satoshi it's the it's the 33rd Satoshi in the 442 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,600 block, or something like that. And you can mark that and then 443 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,660 you can, you can say, all right, or you can claim it or you can 444 00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:28,890 tag it somehow you can put a URL in there, which of course, is 445 00:28:28,890 --> 00:28:32,040 why that you have to pay for that the more data that goes in, 446 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,860 and then you have you know, just like the just like NF T's you 447 00:28:37,860 --> 00:28:41,700 know, there's some other not on the blockchain thing that has a 448 00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:49,080 frog picture or something that relates to that. And it's, you 449 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,580 know, I think it's just and I think it also seems to be 450 00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:56,400 shaking out a little bit that you know, all of these shit 451 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,760 coins are literally shitting the bed they're you know, SEC is 452 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,690 after the everything's closing down it's you know, the just a 453 00:29:03,690 --> 00:29:07,140 lot of things happening with with alternative blockchain 454 00:29:07,140 --> 00:29:12,420 related coins. And it seems like no, oh, let's do this on on the 455 00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:15,390 Bitcoin Blockchain, which, from what I understand taproot 456 00:29:15,390 --> 00:29:16,440 actually enabled 457 00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:21,150 it did that yeah, that's that's how understanding as well, but 458 00:29:21,150 --> 00:29:23,790 you know, the, the way that it was the way that it was 459 00:29:23,790 --> 00:29:26,730 described in found a pretty good article where they were just 460 00:29:26,730 --> 00:29:32,370 goes straight through it. And I mean, it's not a white paper, it 461 00:29:32,370 --> 00:29:36,540 was just a description, but I mean, it read to me as if, oh, 462 00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:40,290 don't worry about this block size, these block size increases 463 00:29:40,290 --> 00:29:43,590 because this is all just purgeable data anyway, for any 464 00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:45,870 for people who are not interested in this specific 465 00:29:45,870 --> 00:29:50,010 transaction in like, you can just you know, it's, you don't 466 00:29:50,010 --> 00:29:52,980 you don't need to retain this because it's just part of this, 467 00:29:53,610 --> 00:29:56,460 you know, extra space that this thing is taking advantage of. 468 00:29:56,730 --> 00:30:00,000 You can purge that out of the actual the transaction room 469 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,210 mange in your in your database, we can purge out the other stuff 470 00:30:03,210 --> 00:30:04,350 that's been jammed in there. 471 00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:07,260 Yeah, that was my understanding of it because like you mark this 472 00:30:07,290 --> 00:30:11,220 market UTX Oh, and then you have this this SegWit space that is 473 00:30:11,220 --> 00:30:12,240 being stuffed with this 474 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,490 inscription kind of like our TLVs in a way. 475 00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:20,100 I think I think so. Yeah. Much more Mia, but at the base layer 476 00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:24,720 and a whole lot bigger. I don't know, I feel like we I feel like 477 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,810 Roy will have all the answers to this. Well, I 478 00:30:27,810 --> 00:30:31,140 like seeing that really. It's like, okay, Bitcoin just goes, 479 00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:35,760 Okay, whatever do that. And then it basically an attack. The way 480 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,310 I see it, I think it's an attack. And Bitcoin goes okay, 481 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:40,800 it'll cost you more. There you go. You paid now it sucked at 482 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,130 the minute This happened for us because closures as channels 483 00:30:44,130 --> 00:30:47,790 didn't close because it wasn't enough predetermined fee. It's 484 00:30:47,790 --> 00:30:52,020 expensive. It's expensive to open channels. But that I've 485 00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:54,840 seen that even out quite a bit over over the last couple of 486 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,660 days. But wow, you know, holy crap. That's just it just it's 487 00:31:00,690 --> 00:31:04,080 amazing to watch what's going on. We live in very interesting 488 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,370 times. Dave Jones? 489 00:31:05,970 --> 00:31:09,030 Well, lots of things. I think it's worth saying this. I mean, 490 00:31:09,030 --> 00:31:13,170 lots of things. The fragility that you see in a lot of these 491 00:31:13,170 --> 00:31:17,190 things, there's a in like lightning and this sort of, 492 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,850 there's a lot of stuff, a lot of technology that is just that is 493 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,090 easily this fragile. Oh, yeah. But you just don't see it 494 00:31:24,090 --> 00:31:26,700 because it's stuffed in a datacenter. Somewhere, like this 495 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:29,820 is all just playing out in public. But I mean, we, you 496 00:31:29,820 --> 00:31:34,200 know, people in this at a sysadmin level deal with this 497 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,880 source of all the time where you where you're like, you're trying 498 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,560 to put a new technology to use and it's got some real funky 499 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,350 stuff with it that has to be worked out over time. I mean, 500 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:50,850 it's just that this looks, it just looks, it probably looks 501 00:31:50,850 --> 00:31:54,510 more scary than it really is. On the outside. You know, 502 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,530 what the one thing I enjoy about the noster experience, though, 503 00:31:58,830 --> 00:32:02,400 is that people have an of course, we know how this works. 504 00:32:02,490 --> 00:32:08,280 People have substituted likes for zaps. So someone likes what 505 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,130 you wrote, then all of a sudden, you get 1000 SATs from them. 506 00:32:11,820 --> 00:32:15,840 I've gotten 10,000 from people before. And that is kind of 507 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,320 really broken. Because I don't know, it's my setup, I guess. I 508 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,170 don't know who's sending it. It doesn't show up in Albi who sent 509 00:32:22,170 --> 00:32:25,170 it, because that's that's the that's the address I use for 510 00:32:25,170 --> 00:32:30,450 that. But it's kind of fun to see people parting with value in 511 00:32:30,450 --> 00:32:34,680 that way. But at the same time, you know, they'll post donations 512 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,990 don't work here have had 1000 sites. 513 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,380 My my thinking on the Bitcoin space in the space of all this 514 00:32:43,410 --> 00:32:48,060 from the beginning has been like anything that we can do. As a we 515 00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:52,770 loosely just mean in general, anything that people can do to 516 00:32:53,250 --> 00:32:58,920 make people part with with their coin and spend it instead of 517 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,240 just this sort of like, I don't know, toxic huddle thing where I 518 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,200 mean, yeah, I mean, sure, hold hold hold on to your assets. I'm 519 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,610 not saying that but I mean, like the the the problem with Bitcoin 520 00:33:11,610 --> 00:33:13,980 for a long time with the culture of Bitcoin has been people are 521 00:33:13,980 --> 00:33:16,590 not people don't spend the money. So you're sort of like 522 00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:21,450 feeding Gresham's Law by by not doing anything. And so like, if 523 00:33:21,450 --> 00:33:24,780 we can get people through booster grams, or, you know, 524 00:33:24,810 --> 00:33:28,410 zaps or whatever, I mean, as long as as long as the thing 525 00:33:28,410 --> 00:33:31,740 that we're doing is to get people to, to actually transact 526 00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:35,040 with this stuff, and we can so that the mechanism of price 527 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,580 discovery, and it can form a market the problem with Bitcoin 528 00:33:38,580 --> 00:33:42,210 is it's not financialized like there's there's a lot of things 529 00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:45,120 that you wish you could do with Bitcoin, there's just no way to 530 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,450 do it. There's no financial instrument or facility to do 531 00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:53,430 things with it. So like in order to make that happen, Now, step 532 00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:56,850 one, like the first step you have to take is to get people 533 00:33:56,850 --> 00:34:00,210 comfortable with actually spending it. And so I think that 534 00:34:00,210 --> 00:34:04,290 any of that stuff, ultimately, maybe the protocol isn't, won't 535 00:34:04,290 --> 00:34:07,410 work out or shake out, you know, the way people hoped. But as 536 00:34:07,410 --> 00:34:10,530 long as we it's more of a mind game to me, it's about getting 537 00:34:10,530 --> 00:34:13,740 people to actually be okay and get used to spending this stuff. 538 00:34:13,740 --> 00:34:14,100 Well, 539 00:34:14,430 --> 00:34:18,600 the way I see it, you're soaking in and maj because podcasting 540 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,140 2.0 I mean, what what's happening is people are 541 00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:27,150 receiving, they're earning in Satoshis they're re spending it 542 00:34:27,150 --> 00:34:33,900 on other podcasts. I use I've connected my my Alby wallet to 543 00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:37,620 pod verse, which is great because I have oh man I might 544 00:34:37,620 --> 00:34:41,460 have 2 million SATs in there now. And that's really just from 545 00:34:41,490 --> 00:34:44,580 you know, bits and pieces coming in because that's that's a 1% 546 00:34:44,580 --> 00:34:50,340 split on the shows I do and I've had it for a while but you know, 547 00:34:50,370 --> 00:34:54,990 I use that the other day to to pay for some holy cow beef you 548 00:34:54,990 --> 00:34:57,150 know, they're they're coming through town to go into Austin 549 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,560 and an always sends me an email she says Hey, we're coming 550 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,530 through anything you want know I ordered some breakfast sausages 551 00:35:04,530 --> 00:35:10,470 and some chicken thighs which they have and I can't remember 552 00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:14,970 all this I'm tallow thing, it was like 96 bucks. And, and she 553 00:35:14,970 --> 00:35:17,880 just sends me she knows me. So she just sends me a QR code 554 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,570 through ibex, which still is not doing Kishen. And, you know, 555 00:35:21,570 --> 00:35:26,100 it's just like copy, paste, boom, done, you know, and it 556 00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:30,360 felt good. And it was from my earnings from earnings that I 557 00:35:30,390 --> 00:35:34,920 that I got into into my wallet. And so it really is happening. 558 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,270 And I agree, whether you do the podcast in 2.0 is a great place 559 00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:42,540 to transact was a great place for people to get comfortable 560 00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:47,310 with it. When you buy it, you know, the hodler Sure they buy 561 00:35:47,310 --> 00:35:50,700 it, however, they're buying it from an exchange. And I can 562 00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:53,340 understand why you know, that culture is still there. But 563 00:35:53,580 --> 00:35:56,430 things like podcasts in 2.0 things like the beef initiative 564 00:35:56,430 --> 00:36:00,570 and and noster are changing that culture. And I think it's very 565 00:36:00,570 --> 00:36:02,610 it's a very positive development. 566 00:36:02,730 --> 00:36:07,050 A real market. A real currency has holders as savers and 567 00:36:07,050 --> 00:36:09,510 spenders. Correct. You can't it can't just be one or the other. 568 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:10,110 I heard 569 00:36:10,529 --> 00:36:14,489 her James Cridland is taking all the SATs. I've boosted the pod 570 00:36:14,489 --> 00:36:18,269 news weekly review with and he's going to buy drinks for 571 00:36:18,269 --> 00:36:22,319 everybody at Podcast Movement. No, which would be it would be 572 00:36:22,769 --> 00:36:25,769 it would be better if he was paying for those drinks with 573 00:36:25,799 --> 00:36:26,639 Satoshis. 574 00:36:27,089 --> 00:36:29,639 That wouldn't be bad. I wonder if they if they have clothes, if 575 00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:32,939 they have those Clover Point of sale terminals might that might 576 00:36:32,939 --> 00:36:33,389 work. 577 00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:38,520 Yeah, we can put you know. What is it to Cash App, strike, 578 00:36:38,550 --> 00:36:40,410 strike, strike, strike, strike. There 579 00:36:40,410 --> 00:36:42,450 you go. Yeah, they're doing that partnership thing. That would be 580 00:36:42,450 --> 00:36:44,970 cool. And then he said you could go button right here, boom, 581 00:36:44,970 --> 00:36:45,630 right in there, which I 582 00:36:45,630 --> 00:36:48,120 was okay with bunnies like, and then we'll have to invite 583 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,170 British people. I'm like, No, I didn't donate for Brits. No, 584 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,070 that's no good. 585 00:36:55,170 --> 00:36:56,400 We fought a war for that. 586 00:36:57,570 --> 00:37:01,830 So before we bring in our our fellow board member for the 587 00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:03,930 board meeting today who's been waiting in the wings very 588 00:37:03,930 --> 00:37:07,050 patiently. And I have a heart out by the way. I got a heart 589 00:37:07,050 --> 00:37:15,420 out. I love Hey, got a heart out at like, three o'clock. I have 590 00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:20,100 an oral emergency procedure taking place today. You can you 591 00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:21,960 can hear me slipping at all. I don't know if that's 592 00:37:22,589 --> 00:37:25,109 a little bit. It's not it's not terrible. It happens. 593 00:37:25,589 --> 00:37:29,219 When I get more tired. It's worse anyway. There's some it'll 594 00:37:29,219 --> 00:37:34,169 only be sore for one or two days. Okay. That's like, I 595 00:37:34,169 --> 00:37:38,159 don't. My first wife had some plastic surgery done several 596 00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:39,479 times. And 597 00:37:41,550 --> 00:37:44,670 like that phraseology. She has some plastic surgery done 598 00:37:44,820 --> 00:37:45,720 several times 599 00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:49,290 I paid for that Miss Potato Heads anyway. And it was always 600 00:37:49,290 --> 00:37:52,500 the same. There'll be some bruising for a couple of days. 601 00:37:53,190 --> 00:38:00,990 Lie. lie. Lie. Weeks. Yeah, exactly. So our guest will be in 602 00:38:00,990 --> 00:38:04,080 a in a moment, our fellow board member, I just want him to react 603 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,520 respond to all of the negative Spotify articles that are that 604 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,780 have been out there. I think two big ones really, that the people 605 00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:15,450 are talking about. And it's you know, it's about the bets not 606 00:38:15,450 --> 00:38:19,950 paying off and all this stuff. So at first, I wanted to say 607 00:38:19,950 --> 00:38:24,360 that, you know, when McKinsey came to called me to interview 608 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,400 me for the research they were doing for Spotify, podcast 609 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,890 strategy, I said, you cannot monetize the network. Now, I 610 00:38:34,890 --> 00:38:37,530 don't know what McKinsey did. They probably didn't put that in 611 00:38:37,530 --> 00:38:41,760 the final product. And I thought and this is my I mean, it took 612 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,840 me 10 years and $65 million to realize that it doesn't work. 613 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,680 And it's truly because of the decentralized nature thank thank 614 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,580 you thank God for RSS for thank you all to all the hosting 615 00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:57,210 companies big and small alike who are still there. Most of 616 00:38:57,210 --> 00:39:00,630 them still they're very impressive. This is the main 617 00:39:00,630 --> 00:39:04,050 reason and I think the protection you and I built in 618 00:39:04,050 --> 00:39:10,020 initially with as our as our mission was the the ability for 619 00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:14,220 independent developers to develop on a database that that 620 00:39:14,220 --> 00:39:18,000 didn't cost anything that they had influence on by being a part 621 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,870 of the of the community. And and for them being able to 622 00:39:21,870 --> 00:39:24,240 participate in the money flow. Those two things were set up 623 00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:29,610 from the get go specifically with value for value so that the 624 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,810 developers and other parties anyone who is doing something 625 00:39:33,810 --> 00:39:38,940 can participate in the value block splits. So I do not think 626 00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:41,910 it'll be very easy for Spotify. They have an activist investor 627 00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:45,030 now in the company. This is this is some bullshit if you have a 628 00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:47,850 company I ran a public company we took up my own company 629 00:39:47,850 --> 00:39:52,200 public. When you if you get an activist investor, your life is 630 00:39:52,200 --> 00:40:00,000 hell. The Board Meetings Suck. It's depending on the level of a 631 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,380 of investment they've made. And I think this was even a little 632 00:40:04,380 --> 00:40:07,440 bit. So Spotify didn't really go. I mean, they they're a 633 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,190 public company, but they didn't do an IPO in a traditional way. 634 00:40:11,190 --> 00:40:14,340 I think we talked about that, didn't we? Yeah, they did raise 635 00:40:14,340 --> 00:40:18,420 billions of dollars. Now, they got all the early investors out 636 00:40:18,420 --> 00:40:21,480 on their pay day, which was mainly record companies, etc. 637 00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:26,220 And some banks, with hundreds of millions of dollars by going 638 00:40:26,220 --> 00:40:30,480 public, so then they could monetize their, their their very 639 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,980 early investment. So they've raised money, but they didn't 640 00:40:34,980 --> 00:40:39,270 raise money with the IPO. And so clearly, they have to raise some 641 00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:43,380 new money. And now comes the really smart money. And that's 642 00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:46,590 an activist investor. And the activist investor, I think that 643 00:40:46,620 --> 00:40:50,790 that the original shareholders will dilute. They're not just 644 00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:53,040 buying shares on the open market, I think they're buying 645 00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:56,340 shares from existing holders inside, like inside shares. 646 00:40:56,340 --> 00:40:58,620 Yeah. Or it could be a shares that were set aside for 647 00:40:58,620 --> 00:41:01,230 employees a lot of a lot of different ways to do it. But 648 00:41:01,230 --> 00:41:04,680 that's real money that they can convert into, into cash that 649 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:12,780 they can spend. And, and I just wanted to say, in this forum, 650 00:41:12,990 --> 00:41:17,790 this is a tremendous opportunity for Spotify, because they can 651 00:41:17,790 --> 00:41:25,740 blow the activist investors away by showing the way the showing 652 00:41:25,740 --> 00:41:30,180 the world that the way to go, is not in the way that everyone 653 00:41:30,180 --> 00:41:34,830 else is trying. But be completely open, join the open 654 00:41:34,830 --> 00:41:41,100 system. Join if you know, build your app to be a better podcast 655 00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:45,960 app. Let's start with that. It's an OK app. And you have a great 656 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,500 audience, you know, so it works. It's an okay app, that's like, 657 00:41:49,740 --> 00:41:53,730 we were just on podcast.com. That's audible. All right. So 658 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,940 you know, they mesh it in with their audio books, but but 659 00:41:56,940 --> 00:41:59,670 really invest in building a great app, and you can kick 660 00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:03,480 everyone's ass at your level, Apple, Google or whatever 661 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:09,270 Google's doing. Amazon, anything else? By showing Oh, look, we 662 00:42:09,270 --> 00:42:13,380 have we've enabled all this hundreds of 1000s of feeds that 663 00:42:13,380 --> 00:42:21,990 have 2.0 named namespace, podcast namespace content, that 664 00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:26,250 no one else is surfacing. You can do it, you could even do 665 00:42:26,250 --> 00:42:30,420 lit, you have the infrastructure for that. If you really wanted 666 00:42:30,420 --> 00:42:33,390 to, I would advise against it. But you could even reboot the 667 00:42:33,390 --> 00:42:38,550 albatross known as anchor. And we'd be so happy to have you on 668 00:42:38,550 --> 00:42:42,060 board. We really would, it would it would lift everybody, it 669 00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:45,540 would lift all of podcasting. Now, I know that this will 670 00:42:45,540 --> 00:42:49,650 probably fall on deaf ears. But I just wanted to say, this is 671 00:42:49,650 --> 00:42:53,010 the opportunity. This is a tremendous opportunity for 672 00:42:53,010 --> 00:42:57,990 Spotify. And if they if they if they just start to tamp down, I 673 00:42:57,990 --> 00:43:00,930 just see, it's I went through this is a 10 year process of 674 00:43:00,930 --> 00:43:05,550 shutting everything down. It's sad. The employees become sad, 675 00:43:05,550 --> 00:43:08,460 you know, the stock code. It's just it's a sad Scituate sad, 676 00:43:08,460 --> 00:43:16,080 sad situation. The Elton John came up. And, and and go open, 677 00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:21,420 go open, go big. People will love you for it. And you will 678 00:43:21,420 --> 00:43:26,160 create a better product and you can participate in massive flow. 679 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,270 And Joe Rogan will be a part of that too. I know he would love 680 00:43:30,270 --> 00:43:33,570 to do it. Go open. Stop the insanity. 681 00:43:34,260 --> 00:43:36,630 I can imagine that have obviously never been in that 682 00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:39,720 position. But I can imagine having an active activist 683 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:43,200 investor is just like, you just wake up every morning 684 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,600 immediately and self defense mode and you're just trying to 685 00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:48,450 keep your head above water trying to not make you know, and 686 00:43:48,450 --> 00:43:52,020 then yeah, no, I agree. That's it's just a great, it's this 687 00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:55,440 moment in in the market. Is it Todd, the other day said 688 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,780 something on one of his shows where he was like, you know, 689 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,240 hey, with the way that podcasting is now if you want to 690 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:04,050 have a podcast and get your show out there and have some have 691 00:44:04,050 --> 00:44:07,290 some make some waves, now's a great time just because 692 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,190 everything's a little bit depressed. So it's probably the 693 00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:13,680 same thing with Spotify. This is a such a tremendous like this 694 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,610 right now, with Google sort of bowing out of the podcasts, 695 00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:20,580 space and all this kind of stuff. Like it is a great time 696 00:44:20,580 --> 00:44:25,830 to go and just sort of like really shake that, because they 697 00:44:25,830 --> 00:44:29,820 made all these investments. But the app didn't change very much. 698 00:44:29,970 --> 00:44:34,020 So they on the app side of things. They never really, they 699 00:44:34,020 --> 00:44:36,480 haven't pushed any real potential. Like they haven't 700 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,020 shaken any of that up. Like if they really changed the app and 701 00:44:40,020 --> 00:44:47,550 embraced, like Buzz cast. That was hearing. Kevin Finn talking 702 00:44:47,550 --> 00:44:52,740 about the person tag and how Apple has stopped taking 703 00:44:52,740 --> 00:44:57,240 submissions for those images like host images used to you 704 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,730 would email it to them and they would put it in there and then 705 00:44:59,730 --> 00:45:02,040 the host Which picture was show up? And I'd have all this 706 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,320 connectivity and that kind of things, totally proprietary 707 00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:07,890 thing to them. And then, you know, now we have the person tag 708 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,360 this open system is, he's like, Well, you know, they're having 709 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,150 this big debate, well, you know, Apple would never do that, 710 00:45:15,150 --> 00:45:17,430 because they want to control you know, everything, which I 711 00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:21,240 disagree with, I think they would do it. But then, you know, 712 00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:23,670 a company like Spotify, they could come in, and they could 713 00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:25,740 immediately just boom, boom, boom, they just start throwing 714 00:45:25,740 --> 00:45:27,270 features out left and right. And just 715 00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:32,370 really remember that around the same time. Now, it was our buddy 716 00:45:32,370 --> 00:45:33,690 over there at Apple who left? 717 00:45:36,750 --> 00:45:37,530 Oh, yeah. 718 00:45:38,820 --> 00:45:43,590 I've already forgotten his name. He's gone. Out of your life? 719 00:45:43,620 --> 00:45:47,670 Yes, you did. You know, he said, No, we had a call. We talked 720 00:45:47,670 --> 00:45:49,950 about on the show, we had a call scheduled. And he said, you want 721 00:45:49,950 --> 00:45:51,540 to talk about what we're doing? I want to hear about, you know, 722 00:45:51,540 --> 00:45:53,220 because he had even said, you know, maybe come talk to the 723 00:45:53,220 --> 00:45:56,790 team about 2.0, which never materialized. I think COVID came 724 00:45:56,790 --> 00:46:00,120 in there to just to MIT to be fair. And I said the same thing, 725 00:46:00,150 --> 00:46:04,020 do this, this is how you will be legendary. We're going to do 726 00:46:04,050 --> 00:46:07,080 we're going to do subscriptions. Okay, fine. And that's because 727 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,110 they have an internal mechanism that is called accounting. And 728 00:46:10,110 --> 00:46:12,480 they have to show that all the work they're putting into it 729 00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:16,080 results in something and it's okay, what they did, but you 730 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,170 know, now you're uploading stuff to Apple itself. So they're, 731 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,750 they're really creating their own little ecosystem, which is 732 00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:29,160 fine. James, James Bugs, bugs, exactly. Sorry, James. Now, 733 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,630 what's even cooler about this, and we really got to bring our 734 00:46:33,630 --> 00:46:37,440 guests and what's even cooler about this, is that when I look 735 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,540 at what wave Lake is doing, who now have over 100 songs placed 736 00:46:42,570 --> 00:46:47,070 into the podcast index with value blocks, and I see what our 737 00:46:47,070 --> 00:46:54,120 very own Steven B is doing. Music side project.com. Spotify 738 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,020 can this finally they can start, they can start making some money 739 00:46:58,020 --> 00:47:03,360 and making musicians and artists and music owners, not the people 740 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,740 who've signed deals with ASCAP BMI, the music that is owned by 741 00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:12,510 the creators can can start making some actual money, they 742 00:47:12,510 --> 00:47:15,810 will be the darlings of the business. And there are now 743 00:47:15,810 --> 00:47:21,630 hosting companies who are getting into this and dystopia, 744 00:47:21,660 --> 00:47:27,870 I think is the one wave lake. And many others could basically 745 00:47:27,870 --> 00:47:31,830 flip a switch and make this happen. And I'm looking at this 746 00:47:31,860 --> 00:47:36,750 and it's cool. I am and there's a lot more not more to be done, 747 00:47:37,500 --> 00:47:44,040 obviously. But I'm just looking at at what, there we go at 748 00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,730 what's out there already. And it's you know, and there's music 749 00:47:47,730 --> 00:47:53,280 that is playable, it's bootable. You have immediate feedback, all 750 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,180 of the 2.0 namespace, the podcast, namespace features can 751 00:47:57,180 --> 00:48:01,860 be used for the your bring back the liner notes, people, I mean, 752 00:48:01,860 --> 00:48:06,780 it's all kinds of stuff that can be done in phenomenal ways. It's 753 00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:11,610 ready made for and Spotify could be. I mean, they would go from 754 00:48:11,610 --> 00:48:15,300 pretty much hated by the music community. If I'm honest about 755 00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:21,090 it, if they're honest about it really, to endeared. And you 756 00:48:21,090 --> 00:48:23,670 know what, then instead of waking up and thinking, oh, what 757 00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:26,970 does that activist investor doing? What backchannel calls am 758 00:48:26,970 --> 00:48:29,520 I gonna get? Who are the Who else are they talking to? That's 759 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,160 on the board. I gotta call everybody keep my keep my eye on 760 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,540 who's doing what, who's saying what? Instead of that life? Wake 761 00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:37,560 up to Glory. 762 00:48:39,990 --> 00:48:40,740 Glory. 763 00:48:42,870 --> 00:48:45,750 That's my plea. There you go. I've said what I have to say. 764 00:48:46,380 --> 00:48:47,370 You pled 765 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,240 I have. Oh, all right. Let's bring in our guest. He is it 766 00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,140 Well, funny enough. He worked at Spotify, but now he's out there 767 00:48:58,140 --> 00:49:03,240 doing stuff for himself. One of the things is a steno stenosis. 768 00:49:03,240 --> 00:49:06,330 And first we got to ask how he pronounced it, I would say 10 769 00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,450 out out FM. Ladies and gentlemen, please give a big 770 00:49:09,450 --> 00:49:12,720 podcasting 2.0 board. Welcome to Nathan gathright. 771 00:49:13,530 --> 00:49:15,240 Hey there, Nathan. 772 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,890 How's it going? Yes. And it is steno. Like you're 773 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,860 somehow geographer you know, when I when I hear this last 774 00:49:22,860 --> 00:49:25,710 name gathright. I expect to Britt somehow I'm not quite sure 775 00:49:25,710 --> 00:49:26,070 why. 776 00:49:27,570 --> 00:49:32,580 I'm texting born. A really? Yeah. Oh, I also lived in 777 00:49:32,580 --> 00:49:34,680 Belgium for a couple years and then back to Texas and now I'm 778 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:35,790 in Chicago. Really? What 779 00:49:35,790 --> 00:49:37,350 were you doing in in Belgium? 780 00:49:38,370 --> 00:49:41,430 My dad was working out there when I was in high school and 781 00:49:42,060 --> 00:49:44,820 just pick up the family moved over there for two years for my 782 00:49:44,820 --> 00:49:47,100 last two years of high school and then oh, entering back to 783 00:49:47,100 --> 00:49:48,060 the US for university. 784 00:49:48,420 --> 00:49:51,630 Because that was kind of my story. My parents have had to 785 00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:54,300 work in the in the Netherlands. They picked us up I was seven. 786 00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:57,690 How old were you when you when you were in Belgium 16 to 18. 787 00:49:57,780 --> 00:50:05,280 Okay, so how long have they been in the CIA? Are your parents so 788 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:06,720 you went to the International School? 789 00:50:07,140 --> 00:50:10,260 Oh, yeah. We're where we Antwerp abroad. I was I was down in 790 00:50:10,260 --> 00:50:10,650 Waterloo. 791 00:50:11,130 --> 00:50:13,920 Oh, okay. Wow. So you were speaking more French than 792 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:19,170 anything I was. Yeah. Yeah. With the Walloons. We don't like 793 00:50:19,170 --> 00:50:19,530 them. 794 00:50:21,180 --> 00:50:24,150 Belgium, Belgium, Dutch, French. And was there a third an 795 00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:29,100 alien? Mars? Yeah. So we have the Flemish and the Walloons, 796 00:50:29,130 --> 00:50:33,180 and they ended that's like family feuds from two centuries 797 00:50:33,180 --> 00:50:36,960 ago. I mean, they that's just crazy. They do not like each 798 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:37,920 other the Hatfields 799 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,360 and the McCoys, pretty much Europe. 800 00:50:39,390 --> 00:50:40,800 Yeah, pretty much. 801 00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:44,280 I was told if you're if you're in the, you know, the French 802 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,190 speaking part of the country, take a shot at speaking French, 803 00:50:47,190 --> 00:50:49,980 even if you're gonna mess it up, for sure. In the Flemish 804 00:50:49,980 --> 00:50:51,630 speaking part of the country just start with English, 805 00:50:51,630 --> 00:50:54,120 they'll, you know, they'll start on a better foot with them 806 00:50:54,299 --> 00:50:57,539 for exactly much safer now. Well, we're glad you came out 807 00:50:57,539 --> 00:51:02,609 alive, my friend. So, the when were you when did you leave 808 00:51:02,609 --> 00:51:03,269 Spotify? 809 00:51:04,259 --> 00:51:06,809 Just with this recent round of layoffs. Oh, you 810 00:51:06,810 --> 00:51:10,500 were asked to leave? I didn't realize that. Okay. Yeah. All 811 00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:15,450 right. Well, I hope you would endorse my concept for them. 812 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,860 Yeah, I think I think I would love to see more open stuff 813 00:51:20,310 --> 00:51:22,920 coming out of all the corners of the podcasting. 814 00:51:23,460 --> 00:51:25,890 Yeah. And you've really embraced this with your project. 815 00:51:25,890 --> 00:51:27,840 steno.fm. Tell us about it. 816 00:51:28,410 --> 00:51:33,900 Yeah. So steno FM sort of was inspired by the, the projects 817 00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:37,500 that sort of were coming, you know, before the namespace came 818 00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:42,060 around like D script, starting with, you know, transcripts 819 00:51:42,060 --> 00:51:45,240 based editing and other sort of transcript based search tools. 820 00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:50,250 But obviously, the challenges of transcribing everybody else's 821 00:51:50,250 --> 00:51:54,840 shows legally and monetarily, we're something that I knew was 822 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,750 never really going to be viable. So when the transcript tag came 823 00:51:57,750 --> 00:52:01,530 around, I got real excited to revive some of my older, older 824 00:52:01,530 --> 00:52:05,130 designs. I'm a product designer by trade. So I'm just thinking 825 00:52:05,130 --> 00:52:06,420 about the way UX challenge 826 00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,720 is great. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that's great. 827 00:52:10,290 --> 00:52:12,870 So the visual, you know, the visual challenge of like, I'd 828 00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:16,440 want to make a better experience than just the equivalent of like 829 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,770 closed captions, I want to make it, you know, searchable, 830 00:52:19,770 --> 00:52:25,830 readable, all of that. So, you know, for shows that provide a 831 00:52:25,830 --> 00:52:30,960 well formatted, SRT file, VTT file, JSON file, whatever, I do 832 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,610 the best that I can to give it you know, a good formatting and 833 00:52:35,610 --> 00:52:37,320 a good listening experience alongside that. 834 00:52:37,410 --> 00:52:41,820 So this is really a listening. Podcast experience is what's 835 00:52:41,820 --> 00:52:45,390 done. Oh, okay. All right. By the way, have you seen the new 836 00:52:45,390 --> 00:52:51,360 Hindenburg Pro to sing? Because I let me just give you a quick 837 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,840 review. Holy crap. Why did you guys change the interface? Why 838 00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,540 did you change the colors? You freak me out? There's no I hate 839 00:52:57,540 --> 00:53:02,310 that. This is your review this review. And and there's one 840 00:53:02,310 --> 00:53:08,010 other part of my review, why if I buy this? Do I have a timer 841 00:53:08,010 --> 00:53:12,120 that says you have 10 hours of transcript time is doing the 842 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:17,760 processing on my machine. But yet somehow I'm I'm I'm, I have 843 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,350 to buy ours. I mean, it's very, it may not be that way. But that 844 00:53:22,350 --> 00:53:26,850 was a real turnoff, just seeing that like what I mean, and we're 845 00:53:26,850 --> 00:53:28,650 still processing no agenda. 846 00:53:29,580 --> 00:53:34,980 So so I know, you've been building steno for a while, 847 00:53:34,980 --> 00:53:39,090 obviously, but then. But it's it's sort of been live. I mean, 848 00:53:39,090 --> 00:53:41,910 was this today was a sort of like a soft launch. I mean, what 849 00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:42,840 would you call this? 850 00:53:42,990 --> 00:53:46,440 Yeah. So today are basically just push a new homepage. And a 851 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,430 new trending page. trending page is actually only discoverable if 852 00:53:50,430 --> 00:53:52,890 you like, hit the little menu on the top left hand corner, but 853 00:53:52,890 --> 00:53:59,190 it's a op three powered page with trending episodes that have 854 00:53:59,190 --> 00:54:07,080 a podcast and D have transcripts and have the OP three prefix. So 855 00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,570 if you're supporting both of those things, hey, I'm trending 856 00:54:09,570 --> 00:54:10,380 the trending page, I'm 857 00:54:10,380 --> 00:54:12,960 trying mascon A bottle no agenda trending? 858 00:54:13,439 --> 00:54:17,789 Am I trending? Or is it just, you know, way down the page? I'm 859 00:54:18,209 --> 00:54:20,339 down the page. Oh, yeah, you're trending down there. 860 00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:22,860 We're trending. Well, what 861 00:54:22,860 --> 00:54:25,560 is so so when I was looking at this the other day, it says 862 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,910 Power BI op three, and I'm assuming that means that let me 863 00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:33,090 ask you some questions. So I'm assuming that that means that op 864 00:54:33,090 --> 00:54:38,670 three is where you're getting the sort of, kind of lack of a 865 00:54:38,670 --> 00:54:42,300 better term popularity data or downloads. Yeah. So that's how 866 00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:44,430 you get your your ranking type of thing. 867 00:54:44,910 --> 00:54:47,850 Yeah, for lack made me made a little custom endpoint for me. 868 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,640 That's specifically you know, filtering down 869 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,960 to just what are you just 870 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,600 asking you shall receive, 871 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,850 okay, and then. So does that mean that you have to be only if 872 00:54:59,850 --> 00:55:03,150 you're Show is not using the Opie three prefix you you won't 873 00:55:03,150 --> 00:55:04,230 show up in steno, 874 00:55:04,650 --> 00:55:07,590 you won't show up in the trending page. But from the 875 00:55:07,590 --> 00:55:11,430 homepage, you can search literally any show. I'm my 876 00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:16,350 search box pulls from both the podcast index API and the apple 877 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:16,950 API. 878 00:55:17,610 --> 00:55:21,750 Okay, so in the in the, in the, in the main discovery page, it's 879 00:55:21,780 --> 00:55:25,650 the popular shows with transcripts. How are you 880 00:55:25,650 --> 00:55:28,830 determining if they're popular? What's your factors there? 881 00:55:28,860 --> 00:55:31,350 This is just manual. This is in that case, that's just a 882 00:55:31,410 --> 00:55:35,070 manually curated page for now. If Cena doesn't really have any 883 00:55:35,070 --> 00:55:36,300 sort of usage, yeah. 884 00:55:36,690 --> 00:55:40,920 Okay. Yeah. If books could kill podcast is great podcast. Yeah. 885 00:55:41,490 --> 00:55:45,600 They, so you're, you're not using any other algorithm? 886 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,030 You're just kind of hand curating that list? Yeah. For 887 00:55:48,030 --> 00:55:51,390 now. Okay, do you have any, like, are you going to change 888 00:55:51,390 --> 00:55:53,490 that you're gonna make it some sort of automated thing? 889 00:55:53,609 --> 00:55:57,749 Yeah, I've spent Oh, gets enough usage to pull from my own data, 890 00:55:57,839 --> 00:56:02,279 then that I can switch to that. But for now, it was just looking 891 00:56:02,279 --> 00:56:06,449 at top ranking charts and crawling feeds trying to see 892 00:56:06,449 --> 00:56:10,499 what has transcript tags. I was talking with Dan Meisner, and he 893 00:56:10,499 --> 00:56:14,849 said, You know, I think familiar cover art is would do a lot for 894 00:56:14,849 --> 00:56:19,529 steno. So the more popular the show in the general public, the 895 00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:22,619 more curious somebody will be more engaged, they will to poke 896 00:56:22,619 --> 00:56:26,639 around the app and give it a shot. So try to find the most 897 00:56:26,669 --> 00:56:29,099 recognizable shows I could and put it on this. 898 00:56:29,130 --> 00:56:31,740 Here's something interesting, and it's probably a bug. It's a 899 00:56:31,740 --> 00:56:36,210 bug. But I it may be a bug on my side, which is actually really 900 00:56:36,210 --> 00:56:39,660 good. Because I think no, it's so I searched for curry in the 901 00:56:39,660 --> 00:56:43,530 keeper, which is show I do have my wife, curry and the keeper. 902 00:56:44,670 --> 00:56:47,880 And so you have three results. Your Apple podcast, podcast 903 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,760 index, what is RSS? It doesn't show up there. But what is RSS? 904 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,330 So if you just want to put in an RSS Oh, okay. Precisely. So 905 00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,210 podcast index, it shows up. I click on podcasting. This is 906 00:56:57,210 --> 00:57:00,090 creating the keeper teen and Adam curry. I click on it. And 907 00:57:00,090 --> 00:57:06,150 it gives me no agenda. And I believe that is because for some 908 00:57:06,180 --> 00:57:12,690 reason that we're still working on the podcast. ID is the same 909 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,190 in Korean the keeper as it is in no agenda. The good The Good, 910 00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:20,370 The Good, the good. Yeah, the good. So this is searching based 911 00:57:20,370 --> 00:57:22,020 on good, which is cool, actually. 912 00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:26,760 Yeah. So all the show pages are good results. So send out Auto 913 00:57:27,300 --> 00:57:32,580 Show slash guid will take you and at that point, I am then 914 00:57:32,610 --> 00:57:34,920 hitting the index to look up that Gu ID and 915 00:57:35,670 --> 00:57:38,640 oh, that's I mean, so I mean, I Nationally it's my it's my 916 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,560 problem. I know. But it's excellent. You're doing that. 917 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,180 I'm good. I love that. Yeah. Excellent. You little techno 918 00:57:45,180 --> 00:57:45,870 man. You 919 00:57:45,900 --> 00:57:48,630 know, I'm a, you know, I'm an A plus student, I tried to check 920 00:57:48,630 --> 00:57:53,430 off as many of the boxes on the namespace that I did in short 921 00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:53,760 order. 922 00:57:54,210 --> 00:57:58,980 Well, this is this is great for a lot of reasons. But so to veer 923 00:57:58,980 --> 00:58:03,240 off for a second, which is something we never do but to 924 00:58:03,660 --> 00:58:08,430 veer for a second, like, So Todd had this comment the other day 925 00:58:08,460 --> 00:58:15,120 on? On his show, where he said, See, I wrote a note and he says 926 00:58:15,210 --> 00:58:18,690 he said he hoped that we haven't run out of ideas with 927 00:58:18,690 --> 00:58:22,830 podcasting. 2.0 like goodness, like we're like, what comes next 928 00:58:22,830 --> 00:58:27,510 sort of thing. And it's, I just want to, it's felt like a time 929 00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:30,120 to do that to talk about that. Because I mean, there's tons of 930 00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,660 ideas, I mean, like playlists, open subscriptions, channels, 931 00:58:33,660 --> 00:58:38,640 bonus items, shared soundbites. Just looking down the list of 932 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:43,950 their sponsor, stage, guests, you know, has guests remote 933 00:58:43,950 --> 00:58:47,850 item, but there's that's just those just like an initial 934 00:58:47,850 --> 00:58:52,230 cursory glance. So but the thing I think they were talking about, 935 00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:55,410 they felt like there's a general slowdown. That is on purpose. I 936 00:58:55,410 --> 00:58:58,860 mean, that that is a thing. I've talked about this before. Like, 937 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:04,560 I don't run the namespace. I mean, it's not my project, to me 938 00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,490 belongs to the community. But, but I do. And I'm conscious of 939 00:59:08,490 --> 00:59:12,030 the fact that I do have the ability to sort of set the speed 940 00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:17,070 of things in the tone, because I'm the one that mostly does the 941 00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:19,950 pull request, you know, approvals and things like that. 942 00:59:20,310 --> 00:59:25,860 And so, it was a very conscious decision on my part to slow down 943 00:59:25,860 --> 00:59:28,920 the pace of things a little bit because we I mean, we outran 944 00:59:29,250 --> 00:59:32,820 everybody with 100 different tags. And people had only 945 00:59:32,820 --> 00:59:37,470 implemented like three. We just didn't it didn't make any sense 946 00:59:37,470 --> 00:59:40,530 to just keep going and going and going. And the reason is because 947 00:59:40,530 --> 00:59:44,550 and I'm bringing this back around us where the reason that 948 00:59:44,550 --> 00:59:50,040 this is important, is because of things like Gu ID. So so we're 949 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:53,220 gonna do one of the things that we've got, we've got in the in 950 00:59:53,220 --> 01:00:00,000 the pipe that's just been sitting there. Dormant is to 951 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,840 channels, podcasts channels. Podcast channels is going to 952 01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,860 depend on GUID. This the same thing that the same mishmash we 953 01:00:07,860 --> 01:00:14,520 ended up with with with, with lit lit depends on pod pain. So 954 01:00:14,820 --> 01:00:20,220 the pod pain had to be had to be fully formed in you know before 955 01:00:20,250 --> 01:00:23,850 lit could be fully formed. So there's a lot of things guid is 956 01:00:23,850 --> 01:00:28,530 actually a really important piece of the overall puzzle 957 01:00:28,530 --> 01:00:34,110 going forward. Because this idea that we need to take URLs are 958 01:00:34,110 --> 01:00:37,740 impermanent, people move their shows all the time, it is not an 959 01:00:37,740 --> 01:00:40,350 uncommon thing for this to happen. People move from host to 960 01:00:40,350 --> 01:00:43,350 host, they go to self host, and they go back, blah, blah, blah, 961 01:00:43,470 --> 01:00:49,860 they get bought. So the idea that you that your URL, is your 962 01:00:49,860 --> 01:00:53,490 universal identifier really just doesn't work. So the idea of the 963 01:00:53,580 --> 01:00:59,100 podcast Gu ID, that can be your your actual permanent ID and 964 01:00:59,100 --> 01:01:02,670 your show, oh, in the show result, the good resolves to the 965 01:01:02,670 --> 01:01:07,170 URL that is in something that's that is critical for a lot of 966 01:01:07,170 --> 01:01:10,230 things that come downstream. So the fact that you're doing this 967 01:01:10,230 --> 01:01:12,420 nation is phenomenal, beautiful, phenomenal. 968 01:01:12,420 --> 01:01:16,110 I love that. And by the way, I don't know what this is. Have 969 01:01:16,110 --> 01:01:17,610 you ever heard the ISO baht? 970 01:01:19,350 --> 01:01:20,610 In the chat room? No, 971 01:01:20,819 --> 01:01:25,109 no, literally someone's typing in? No, I'm an A plus student. 972 01:01:25,109 --> 01:01:27,629 And that has a link to an mp3 And you 973 01:01:27,660 --> 01:01:30,360 know, I'm a you know, I'm an A plus student, I tried to check 974 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:31,200 off as many 975 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,520 this is this is this is some space age stuff going on here. 976 01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:42,180 People are some bot that can do ISOs in real time. All right, 977 01:01:42,180 --> 01:01:44,970 I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm just I'm going nuts. So we got we got 978 01:01:44,970 --> 01:01:49,020 goods being used. We got ISO bots, I feel like I'm back in 979 01:01:49,020 --> 01:01:49,950 the stone age. 980 01:01:51,810 --> 01:01:56,520 Your that? I think this may be the first I think this may be 981 01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:01,980 the first app that uses do it as Yeah, its main main index. 982 01:02:05,790 --> 01:02:10,140 Let's see who else is out there think? Yeah, maybe. I think I 983 01:02:10,140 --> 01:02:13,110 think I know fountain URLs are just using the podcast index ID. 984 01:02:14,670 --> 01:02:18,840 And a couple other people, pod, pod pod verse and curio caster 985 01:02:18,930 --> 01:02:23,460 and fountain are all using the podcast index ID. But the GU IDs 986 01:02:23,460 --> 01:02:25,590 sort of came probably after they got all that set up? 987 01:02:26,580 --> 01:02:29,250 Well, it makes me think that I need to, then I need to sort of 988 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:34,110 prioritize the, you know, an easier way to resolve it, to 989 01:02:34,110 --> 01:02:37,680 resolve these to read this an open open way, you know, rather 990 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,490 than forcing everybody to have a key. Because that would probably 991 01:02:41,490 --> 01:02:44,550 be probably be a bit better. I mean, there's just some things 992 01:02:44,550 --> 01:02:47,850 that probably make more sense being outside of the API. But 993 01:02:48,150 --> 01:02:51,030 you're, you're, you're well qualified to do this. I mean, 994 01:02:51,030 --> 01:02:56,100 like you, if people don't know, your background, you. You got 995 01:02:56,130 --> 01:03:00,090 your part, you had an app that got bought by pods sites. Yeah, 996 01:03:00,090 --> 01:03:01,170 right. Yeah, that's 997 01:03:01,170 --> 01:03:04,860 how I ended up at Spotify was two acquisitions deep in selling 998 01:03:04,890 --> 01:03:08,730 pod dot link to pod sites. And then pod sites was acquired by 999 01:03:09,540 --> 01:03:12,060 Spotify. And I went along for the ride both of those times, 1000 01:03:12,060 --> 01:03:15,240 but pod dot Link was trying to sort of solve that problem of 1001 01:03:16,110 --> 01:03:19,260 everybody only really wanting to promote one link for their 1002 01:03:19,260 --> 01:03:23,220 podcasts not fill a tweet with, you know, five different apps. 1003 01:03:23,250 --> 01:03:26,370 And Pocket Casts was my app of choice, which had, you know, 1004 01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,820 around 1% market share, it was never going to be anybody's, it 1005 01:03:29,820 --> 01:03:31,770 was always gonna get cut out of the tweet if they're going to 1006 01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,910 link to even more than one podcast app. Right. So I was 1007 01:03:35,910 --> 01:03:38,220 just sort of tried to address that problem where people say, 1008 01:03:38,220 --> 01:03:41,460 find us wherever you download podcasts. And I, you know, 1009 01:03:41,910 --> 01:03:44,160 remember reading somebody saying that find us, wherever you 1010 01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,130 download podcasts is, you know, a good is a green flag. It's a 1011 01:03:47,130 --> 01:03:49,470 sign of that open ecosystem, but it does make it harder for the 1012 01:03:49,470 --> 01:03:53,520 podcaster to motivate a, you know, slightly curious listener 1013 01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,700 to go to the trouble of, you know, okay, how did they spell 1014 01:03:56,730 --> 01:03:59,880 that long show name or whatever. So product link was sort of 1015 01:03:59,910 --> 01:04:04,020 trying to be that Lincoln bio landing page solution that 1016 01:04:04,170 --> 01:04:07,320 automatically linked to Apple and Spotify and Google and 1017 01:04:07,620 --> 01:04:10,530 overcast and all of them, because I just looked at the 1018 01:04:10,530 --> 01:04:14,010 deterministic nature of how all of them created their URLs and 1019 01:04:14,010 --> 01:04:17,610 auto generated pages based on that. So the podcaster didn't 1020 01:04:17,610 --> 01:04:20,190 even have to go and set it up. A listener could go promote their 1021 01:04:20,190 --> 01:04:24,150 favorite show by finding the public page for it and sharing 1022 01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:24,750 it with friends. 1023 01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:31,680 Yeah, this, do you have any immediate? Like, what's your 1024 01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,070 immediate roadmap? So your stint of standards like law is 1025 01:04:35,070 --> 01:04:38,670 launched. Now? What do you do you have like a short term set 1026 01:04:38,670 --> 01:04:41,400 of features that you think are are sort of imminent, that 1027 01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:42,750 you're going to look at putting in? 1028 01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,490 Yeah, so right now, looking at your own sort of stats package. 1029 01:04:48,180 --> 01:04:52,110 We're at 24,000 podcasts with transcripts, nearly 600,000 1030 01:04:52,110 --> 01:04:56,640 episodes of the transcripts. That still is only 0.6% of all 1031 01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:01,440 podcasts in the index. So I really want to see what I can do 1032 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:06,210 to advocate for more use of the transcript tag. And and you 1033 01:05:06,210 --> 01:05:08,370 know, richer use of the transcript tag, a number of the 1034 01:05:08,370 --> 01:05:12,030 hosts right now are really sort of sort of going to like a 1035 01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:15,870 lowest common denominator and supporting just txt transcripts. 1036 01:05:17,790 --> 01:05:20,820 I think on a recent episode, y'all just ran in within grade 1037 01:05:20,820 --> 01:05:24,210 into this with rss.com. There is no file upload, you can't upload 1038 01:05:24,210 --> 01:05:26,700 an SRT, you can only paste something in there. It's coming. 1039 01:05:27,270 --> 01:05:31,380 Yeah. Um, but you know, Captivate and transistor, some 1040 01:05:31,380 --> 01:05:33,030 of them are, you know, are not really thinking about 1041 01:05:33,030 --> 01:05:36,810 transcripts as like a multi format thing in the RSS feed. 1042 01:05:36,810 --> 01:05:39,510 They're sort of thinking about, well, how does it look on the 1043 01:05:39,510 --> 01:05:43,560 landing page for this episode on our own site? More than, you 1044 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,080 know, what can I have, you know, making sure that it's a properly 1045 01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:48,780 formatted file for other apps to do something interesting with 1046 01:05:48,809 --> 01:05:51,299 I'm kind of digging the design choice you made here on the 1047 01:05:51,299 --> 01:05:55,529 transcripts, where the, although my transcript is not well 1048 01:05:55,529 --> 01:05:59,939 formatted just one big block of text. But as you play the 1049 01:05:59,969 --> 01:06:04,439 podcast, it's bopping down line by line highlighting it in a 1050 01:06:04,439 --> 01:06:08,189 kind of a yellowish orange. And then if you just scroll down, 1051 01:06:08,219 --> 01:06:11,999 you click on something the audio jumps to that. That's nice, 1052 01:06:11,999 --> 01:06:14,969 ma'am. That's rude. Yeah, and that's, that's exactly something 1053 01:06:14,969 --> 01:06:17,519 you could put on a on a podcast page. 1054 01:06:18,030 --> 01:06:21,960 Ya know, I would love to see a whole bunch of hosts copy this 1055 01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,650 and add it to their own, you know, all the other end websites 1056 01:06:25,650 --> 01:06:29,670 for their own podcasts. So give that experience to everybody 1057 01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:31,920 on what's the what's the end goal here, Nathan, you're 1058 01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,350 obviously cruising on your Spotify millions. So what are 1059 01:06:34,350 --> 01:06:34,920 you going to do with? 1060 01:06:37,260 --> 01:06:40,470 I don't know, I don't think I have delusions that it's going 1061 01:06:40,470 --> 01:06:43,710 to be a competitive podcast app, I haven't invested in making 1062 01:06:43,710 --> 01:06:48,030 user accounts or, you know, a mobile app or anything like 1063 01:06:48,030 --> 01:06:52,230 that. So we'll see. It's mostly trying to advocate for the 1064 01:06:52,230 --> 01:06:54,420 transcript, like further adoption of the transcript tag 1065 01:06:54,450 --> 01:06:59,190 and think about beyond the transcript tag, how can we, you 1066 01:06:59,190 --> 01:07:02,760 know, bring transcripts to more podcasts, even if that the 1067 01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,090 transcript tag is not available to them. So I've been having 1068 01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,390 discussions as people trying to figure out if shows that have 1069 01:07:09,390 --> 01:07:11,760 dynamic ad insertion can ever adopt transcripts in a 1070 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,550 meaningful way. If their transcripts don't have 1071 01:07:14,550 --> 01:07:16,830 timestamps, then they might as well just link to it in the 1072 01:07:16,830 --> 01:07:19,530 description and not bother with the transcript tag is, you know, 1073 01:07:19,620 --> 01:07:21,960 there's no point in you know, integrating it into the player 1074 01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,250 if it's equivalent to opening up a web view anyway. If it does 1075 01:07:26,250 --> 01:07:30,630 have timestamps, then, you know, all their dynamic adding in 1076 01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,890 their dynamic add ins, injection tech gets in the way, because 1077 01:07:34,890 --> 01:07:37,170 then they don't ever, ever guarantee 1078 01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,050 except Buzzsprout Buzzsprout figured that out, they figured 1079 01:07:40,500 --> 01:07:41,160 out really 1080 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,970 once you did their their Buzzsprout advocates for is the 1081 01:07:44,970 --> 01:07:47,520 podcast app, when it downloads the episode downloads the 1082 01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,930 transcript at that point, and not when the listener goes to 1083 01:07:51,930 --> 01:07:54,000 listen to it a second time. So if the listener goes to listen 1084 01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,420 to it two weeks later, they're dynamic. And they're dynamic 1085 01:07:57,540 --> 01:08:01,350 block has changed in some way upsetting the timestamps, the 1086 01:08:01,350 --> 01:08:04,170 transcript URL will have changed at that point. So they really 1087 01:08:04,170 --> 01:08:06,780 want you to just cache the transcript at time of download. 1088 01:08:07,110 --> 01:08:10,920 I tried out this podium page. Have you heard of this podium 1089 01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:15,060 pal? Yeah. Which I think is that they also have an app, I think, 1090 01:08:15,090 --> 01:08:19,470 and yeah, it seems like they're a company that is using 1091 01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:22,740 podcasting to display their incredible artificial 1092 01:08:22,740 --> 01:08:28,530 intelligence prowess. But I did, I did throw a podcast into it 1093 01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,650 into the system. And so I saw it came back. So it does 1094 01:08:31,650 --> 01:08:35,670 transcript, but it also does, chapters. It does, it takes it 1095 01:08:35,670 --> 01:08:38,490 makes an attempt. shownotes not bad. 1096 01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,040 I mean, not great, because I was very impressed with the show 1097 01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:42,000 notes feature. Yeah, 1098 01:08:42,030 --> 01:08:45,150 it's a starting point. And you know, it has timestamps, and I 1099 01:08:45,150 --> 01:08:49,620 mean, I would never use it. I mean, I love human intelligence. 1100 01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:54,630 So you know, our chapters like I love Dred Scott doing it, but it 1101 01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:58,050 was a but even for drab, it might, it might be a great way 1102 01:08:58,050 --> 01:09:03,960 to just get a like a little idea of okay, here, you know, here's 1103 01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,330 some things that I that I might look out for, because he 1104 01:09:06,330 --> 01:09:09,420 basically just listens in real time. And just, you know, taps 1105 01:09:09,420 --> 01:09:11,220 it and says, Okay, here's a chapter, here's a chapter, 1106 01:09:11,220 --> 01:09:13,890 here's a chapter. But it wasn't horrible. 1107 01:09:14,340 --> 01:09:16,860 Yeah, back to David's point about like, you know, feature 1108 01:09:16,860 --> 01:09:19,770 development. Whereas feature development going, I really want 1109 01:09:19,770 --> 01:09:26,340 to see the podcast events tag, enable more of a Wikipedia like 1110 01:09:26,340 --> 01:09:30,780 experience, where if you want to improve the transcript, if you 1111 01:09:30,780 --> 01:09:34,470 want to improve the chapters, or suggests something that 1112 01:09:34,530 --> 01:09:38,040 listeners have a way to communicate that back to the 1113 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,250 podcaster, and that the host can mediate that if the host is 1114 01:09:41,250 --> 01:09:43,650 managing all the web hooks or something like that, and say, 1115 01:09:43,650 --> 01:09:46,140 like, Oh, hey, looks like you know, you left a typo. There's 1116 01:09:46,170 --> 01:09:48,930 podcasts I know that have their transcripts on GitHub, and I've 1117 01:09:48,930 --> 01:09:52,620 totally gone in and, you know, put down a pull request to fix 1118 01:09:52,620 --> 01:09:53,460 some things that I saw. 1119 01:09:53,970 --> 01:09:58,590 You are an enormous asset to podcasting 2.0 This is 1120 01:09:58,590 --> 01:10:03,780 fantastic. You Appreciate that. No. I mean, you are, you're just 1121 01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,690 developing stuff that you think could be better and can be 1122 01:10:06,690 --> 01:10:09,720 implemented and show and leading by example. I love it. Thank you 1123 01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,180 so much. It's really it's awesome that I don't use that 1124 01:10:12,180 --> 01:10:12,900 word lightly. 1125 01:10:13,470 --> 01:10:19,380 Do you have any sort of gut feeling as to what has been a 1126 01:10:19,380 --> 01:10:26,340 little? Just kind of baffled by how few podcast apps have put 1127 01:10:26,340 --> 01:10:31,440 transcripts into the app? They just it doesn't seem that I'm 1128 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,410 not. I'm not gonna say the trivial, because it's, I mean, 1129 01:10:34,410 --> 01:10:39,930 it requires work. But it's also not. I mean, it's not like 1130 01:10:39,930 --> 01:10:45,660 groundbreaking ly difficult to track an SRT file. I mean, I'm 1131 01:10:45,660 --> 01:10:47,940 just I'm just a little I'm just a little interested in that. I 1132 01:10:47,940 --> 01:10:51,180 would. There's so many out there now, like you said to me, 1133 01:10:51,180 --> 01:10:54,900 600,000 episodes with, with transcripts, it feels the 1134 01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:57,900 content is there, I guess I would just see, I don't know, do 1135 01:10:57,900 --> 01:10:59,940 you? Do you have a feeling as to why people aren't doing more of 1136 01:10:59,940 --> 01:11:01,650 this? Because it's an accessibility thing. It just 1137 01:11:01,650 --> 01:11:02,730 makes so much sense. 1138 01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,980 I think, like in even just in launching it today, I saw people 1139 01:11:07,980 --> 01:11:10,380 like, oh, I checked out my favorite show, and it didn't 1140 01:11:10,380 --> 01:11:14,370 have transcripts. And there's not much I can say to them, 1141 01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:18,840 like, well, I don't need to run a whisper server and create a 1142 01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:23,580 bunch of, you know, copyright, dubious transcripts that the 1143 01:11:23,580 --> 01:11:26,190 podcaster didn't sign off on and, and approve. Is that what 1144 01:11:26,190 --> 01:11:28,500 you're asking me to do here? And they're like, I guess not. And 1145 01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:32,160 you're like, alright, so. So from the point of view of like 1146 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:36,030 delivering a good user experience to your listeners, if 1147 01:11:36,030 --> 01:11:39,210 you're making a podcast app, you know, I think a lot of people 1148 01:11:39,210 --> 01:11:44,010 feel sort of in a bind that they can't promise transcripts for 1149 01:11:44,010 --> 01:11:48,060 everything. And so they're left saying like, well, it's kind of 1150 01:11:48,060 --> 01:11:52,050 enabled, if you listen to this subset of shows, and it's the 1151 01:11:52,050 --> 01:11:55,290 subset of shows that are not doing dynamic ad insertion. So 1152 01:11:55,290 --> 01:11:58,890 it's not the shows in the top of the apple charts. I was like 1153 01:11:58,890 --> 01:12:02,520 crawling apples charts to see how many they had, I think five 1154 01:12:02,520 --> 01:12:07,620 real five shows in Apple's top 250 have transcripts. And 1155 01:12:07,620 --> 01:12:11,160 there's actually probably like five, and there's five more that 1156 01:12:11,190 --> 01:12:13,290 have, they're using the transcript tag, but it basically 1157 01:12:13,290 --> 01:12:16,920 just pasted in their description into a text file. There's a 1158 01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,590 couple others that are using it dubiously. 1159 01:12:20,130 --> 01:12:28,770 That's to me, okay, so trick, dynamic ad insertion is the way 1160 01:12:28,770 --> 01:12:32,850 that it came down the pipe seems to be responsible for a lot of 1161 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:38,760 the a lot of these sorts of things where, oh, we would want 1162 01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,130 we'd like to do it, but we can't figure out how to do it because 1163 01:12:41,130 --> 01:12:45,510 there's all this dynamic ad insertion. And to me, this just 1164 01:12:45,510 --> 01:12:50,580 seems like an eminently solvable problem. But if if we if we step 1165 01:12:50,580 --> 01:12:53,910 because we already talked to I don't know, if you were in on 1166 01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:56,460 that conversation, Nathan, I think he may have been, where, 1167 01:12:56,580 --> 01:13:00,540 you know, we sort of had this back and forth with, with some 1168 01:13:00,540 --> 01:13:04,350 various people about how to make these timestamps line up in a 1169 01:13:04,350 --> 01:13:07,020 good way. Because you, you submit, the way it seems to be 1170 01:13:07,020 --> 01:13:10,680 happening is these these, the audio gets submitted to sound 1171 01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:15,510 stack or some third party ad insertion provider. And then 1172 01:13:15,510 --> 01:13:19,470 there's, there's slots that are marked in the fee in the in the 1173 01:13:19,470 --> 01:13:24,780 mp3. And then those those slots go in to the mp3 from sound 1174 01:13:24,780 --> 01:13:27,120 stack, and then it gets delivered dynamically back when 1175 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:32,580 you download it. To me, I mean, they're just that those, those 1176 01:13:32,580 --> 01:13:38,250 ad slots can come back in as markers in the ID three tag, 1177 01:13:38,250 --> 01:13:41,640 they can come back in, in a download in headers in the 1178 01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:45,060 download, where now he's like, Okay, well, I've got offsets. 1179 01:13:45,060 --> 01:13:50,010 Now, if I just have a list of a list of ad insertion points and 1180 01:13:50,010 --> 01:13:53,400 their lengths for the transcript, I can just go and I 1181 01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,190 can just know what those offsets or whatever. To me, just seems 1182 01:13:56,190 --> 01:13:59,550 like, this seems like a solvable problem. To me. That's, that's 1183 01:13:59,550 --> 01:14:03,780 not technically challenging. But for some reason, it's just like, 1184 01:14:03,990 --> 01:14:07,950 we're done with that dai works. I'm just, you know, I'm not 1185 01:14:07,950 --> 01:14:10,650 going back there. It's, it's annoying. 1186 01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,700 I felt like my first stab at this problem was looking at how 1187 01:14:14,730 --> 01:14:19,680 Marco Arment built forecast. And in short order mp3 chapters, 1188 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,100 were in a lot more apps, including Apple podcasts. And 1189 01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:27,300 even I had Spurlock look at what was the total adoption of 1190 01:14:27,330 --> 01:14:31,200 transcripts or of chapters. And when he first looked at it, it 1191 01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,650 was something like you know, 1.6% or something like that. So 1192 01:14:35,190 --> 01:14:39,120 I was thinking okay, there's all the hosts that haven't adopted 1193 01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,800 support for the transcript tag yet what if I put the transcript 1194 01:14:43,830 --> 01:14:47,370 into the ID three tags so I started working on that there's 1195 01:14:47,370 --> 01:14:52,890 a ID three marker called synchronized lyrics and text 1196 01:14:53,010 --> 01:14:56,010 which is perfect for putting you know timestamps text for really 1197 01:14:56,010 --> 01:14:59,310 for like karaoke mode and music but perfectly suitable for 1198 01:14:59,310 --> 01:15:03,180 putting a whole train script inside an mp3 file, very small, 1199 01:15:03,180 --> 01:15:06,330 it's just text. It's not like the people who put a 3000 by 1200 01:15:06,330 --> 01:15:12,750 3000 image inside the mp3 file and was going down that route. 1201 01:15:12,750 --> 01:15:17,370 But enough podcast hosts mess with the ID three tags and throw 1202 01:15:17,370 --> 01:15:20,130 away anything they don't immediately see as irrelevant 1203 01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:26,400 that that idea sort of died on the vine. But I think something 1204 01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:28,350 that like Dred Scott is saying in the chat is it might be 1205 01:15:28,350 --> 01:15:30,510 helpful if transcripts served other purposes as well, such as 1206 01:15:30,510 --> 01:15:33,090 searchable content on a website to, I think really is 1207 01:15:33,090 --> 01:15:36,000 transcripts are a means to an end, you have a job to be done, 1208 01:15:36,030 --> 01:15:38,790 that is not read the transcript, but your job to be done is 1209 01:15:38,940 --> 01:15:41,970 recall a thing that I you know, heard on something that I 1210 01:15:41,970 --> 01:15:45,750 listened to this week, or, you know, bookmark something or make 1211 01:15:45,750 --> 01:15:48,300 something, you know, share something more easily. They're 1212 01:15:48,300 --> 01:15:50,760 always a means to an end. And they sort of need to be 1213 01:15:50,910 --> 01:15:53,700 ubiquitous before you can start building the features on top of 1214 01:15:53,700 --> 01:15:53,940 them 1215 01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:57,000 linking into that, something that I'm seeing a little bit 1216 01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:01,440 more of the machine learning AI people are showing up on my 1217 01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:05,880 doorstep and saying, Hey, can I get all your transcripts? And I 1218 01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,700 say, oh, yeah, here's this directory. And it's on an FTP 1219 01:16:08,700 --> 01:16:12,600 server, you can anything this dot SRT is a transcript. And 1220 01:16:13,230 --> 01:16:16,380 what I, I think that the what has not worked very 1221 01:16:16,380 --> 01:16:23,910 successfully, is apps using the search for the transcripts for 1222 01:16:23,940 --> 01:16:27,060 and the main reason it works is chicken in the egg as usual with 1223 01:16:27,060 --> 01:16:31,200 the stuff we're doing. So to me, it seems like someone can build 1224 01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:35,130 a service that searches transcripts without you know, 1225 01:16:35,130 --> 01:16:39,330 but does it with real machine learning type stuff. So you can 1226 01:16:39,330 --> 01:16:42,120 say I'm looking for something like this instead of, you know, 1227 01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:46,590 or I want to hear when curry said that. And it seems to me 1228 01:16:46,590 --> 01:16:50,550 that that would be an incentive. Because one of the thing about 1229 01:16:50,550 --> 01:16:53,460 podcasters, we know that they don't like spending money, but 1230 01:16:53,460 --> 01:16:57,150 they also don't want to be left out of something. So if Oh, 1231 01:16:57,180 --> 01:17:01,560 YouTube, I'm on YouTube, oh, it's on AOL, they're back with 1232 01:17:01,590 --> 01:17:04,800 with a floppy disk, I'm on the floppy disk. Doesn't matter. It 1233 01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,250 doesn't matter podcast want to be everywhere. And not to have 1234 01:17:08,550 --> 01:17:12,270 to have kind of what you're doing. Honestly, like, okay, you 1235 01:17:12,270 --> 01:17:14,700 don't have a transcript, here's how you can get a transcript one 1236 01:17:14,700 --> 01:17:18,750 bug, your host, your hosting company, too. You could hear 1237 01:17:18,750 --> 01:17:24,060 some commercial services, including otter or whatever, or 1238 01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:31,380 the even Hindenburg, where you can use what's the, the do it 1239 01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:36,720 yourself package, forget the name, whisper, you know, and 1240 01:17:36,750 --> 01:17:40,470 someone build an actual resource around that, I think that would 1241 01:17:40,470 --> 01:17:45,870 entice podcasters to do that, and not necessarily, because 1242 01:17:45,870 --> 01:17:48,840 it's, you know, the biggest problem of of the transcripts 1243 01:17:48,870 --> 01:17:51,660 for me in a way is I like getting a show out immediately. 1244 01:17:51,930 --> 01:17:55,110 And the transcript usually goes up two hours later, because it 1245 01:17:55,110 --> 01:17:59,130 just takes that long to transcribe, but having a 1246 01:17:59,130 --> 01:18:03,900 resource that could I mean, I think there's ways to make that 1247 01:18:04,410 --> 01:18:07,260 have money flowing, you know, or value for value blocks throw. So 1248 01:18:07,260 --> 01:18:10,110 that was a whole bunch of things that could be done. Even 1249 01:18:10,110 --> 01:18:13,500 advertising for all I care. If we had a place where that was 1250 01:18:13,500 --> 01:18:16,680 actually being done this everyone's everyone's got a man, 1251 01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,110 I'm looking at you comic strip blogger. I mean, there's people 1252 01:18:19,110 --> 01:18:23,640 who are doing so much ml AI LMNOP, this is a great 1253 01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,820 opportunity, and you already have quite a stack. And if 1254 01:18:26,820 --> 01:18:29,880 people are searching for topics, and the only thing that that can 1255 01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:33,420 show up is podcasts that have transcripts, I think that would 1256 01:18:33,420 --> 01:18:36,720 kick off people being interested in actually doing it. 1257 01:18:37,650 --> 01:18:41,040 Yeah, I definitely want to see the podcast events tag, enable 1258 01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:44,640 people to contribute back, like, Hey, I get random whisper 1259 01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:49,200 transcript, you know, as downloaded and, you know, here, 1260 01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,320 I'm sending it to your host, you can read over it and approve it. 1261 01:18:53,100 --> 01:18:55,680 So that the podcasters putting their stamp of approval on it 1262 01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:57,660 before it, you know, goes out to your listeners. 1263 01:18:58,050 --> 01:19:01,440 That's a cool idea. Because then you have people that can begin 1264 01:19:01,440 --> 01:19:05,190 it's almost like when you put somebody Yeah, but but in an 1265 01:19:05,190 --> 01:19:07,680 automated way. Like you don't even have to ask permission. You 1266 01:19:07,680 --> 01:19:10,530 just you don't you just do it and then send an event just 1267 01:19:10,530 --> 01:19:11,940 like, hey, I did a transcript 1268 01:19:11,970 --> 01:19:15,210 that's like this. Drag has been you know, he's on his own dime. 1269 01:19:15,210 --> 01:19:18,390 He's like, Oh, I'm going back every single mo facts with Adam 1270 01:19:18,390 --> 01:19:21,780 curry episode. I'm running through a transcript. Yeah, 1271 01:19:21,930 --> 01:19:25,950 yeah. Yeah. You're right, that needs to be an automated 1272 01:19:25,950 --> 01:19:31,920 fashion. So it just kind of flows back there. That what is 1273 01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,900 it? What does that tag called? deep bench tag. Yeah, that spits 1274 01:19:36,900 --> 01:19:40,800 back my system somehow knows to reattach it or whatever click 1275 01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,710 it's now attached to that podcast. This is these are 1276 01:19:43,710 --> 01:19:46,440 really good ideas. Hello, Spotify. 1277 01:19:48,330 --> 01:19:52,230 It just it just feels like I think people don't maybe don't 1278 01:19:52,230 --> 01:19:58,140 appreciate how difficult it is to do good search on anything on 1279 01:19:58,140 --> 01:20:04,830 debt on data like this. So what I mean is like Google, you say, 1280 01:20:04,830 --> 01:20:07,650 Well, Google indexes the entire web. Yeah. But they have, they 1281 01:20:07,650 --> 01:20:12,390 have a clear signal, the PageRank would signal that link 1282 01:20:12,390 --> 01:20:17,700 based on incoming links. That was a clear signal, that of 1283 01:20:17,700 --> 01:20:22,350 quality, that this this thing rises to the top of the stack. 1284 01:20:22,440 --> 01:20:25,890 As you have incoming links, there's no, there's nothing like 1285 01:20:25,890 --> 01:20:32,070 that in podcasting. You can't say, Okay, this episode is 1286 01:20:32,070 --> 01:20:38,430 great, because there's so many, what attached to it, the best 1287 01:20:38,430 --> 01:20:41,280 you can do is say, Well, there's a whole bunch of downloads, 1288 01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:44,010 well, guess what, most people don't have access to that. The 1289 01:20:44,010 --> 01:20:48,300 podcaster themselves have access to it. And that's it, that 1290 01:20:48,300 --> 01:20:51,960 nobody else knows that. So you're left within independent, 1291 01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:57,270 each independent app knows how many downloads are in are 1292 01:20:57,270 --> 01:20:59,820 happening for each one of those shows on their platform, 1293 01:20:59,850 --> 01:21:04,740 sometimes, like in the, in the circumstance of cast ematic. 1294 01:21:05,190 --> 01:21:07,710 Franco doesn't know because that's all happening on device. 1295 01:21:08,100 --> 01:21:11,910 So you just have a whole lot of unknowns within within part. So 1296 01:21:11,910 --> 01:21:14,910 what you're left with really as like I'm looking through steno. 1297 01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,410 And I'm going through these transcripts, you're left with 1298 01:21:19,650 --> 01:21:25,320 just massive amounts of blob, just huge amount. And I'm 1299 01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,560 talking about this from from a search ability standpoint, but 1300 01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,760 you just huge, huge, massive event of just words. So you 1301 01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:37,440 really have to have something like an A AI type approach in 1302 01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:41,130 order to even make anything meaningful out of all of this 1303 01:21:41,130 --> 01:21:45,180 stuff. Because this would you end up I mean, if you're like 1304 01:21:45,180 --> 01:21:47,220 the Brookings Institution, you want to be the Hans Blix of 1305 01:21:47,220 --> 01:21:51,210 podcasting, then you have to really like, you know, you'd 1306 01:21:51,210 --> 01:21:54,750 have to do something like this. Because otherwise you can't, 1307 01:21:54,750 --> 01:21:59,190 you're not going to get a Google search of podcasts. It's just 1308 01:21:59,190 --> 01:22:02,160 never this is this is the problem with discoverability. 1309 01:22:02,940 --> 01:22:04,620 The problem that, you know, people want better 1310 01:22:04,620 --> 01:22:08,730 discoverability and podcasts in a hand and it's never, it's 1311 01:22:08,730 --> 01:22:09,600 never gonna be that, 1312 01:22:09,630 --> 01:22:12,990 you know, here's an opportunity I'm gonna reach out to SRIDHAR 1313 01:22:12,990 --> 01:22:19,110 RAMASWAMY. He's the he was the CEO. He ran Google search 1314 01:22:19,110 --> 01:22:25,110 product. And he started Neva and e va.com, which is search engine 1315 01:22:25,110 --> 01:22:28,560 without ads that I've been using for years, a couple of years 1316 01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:32,670 now. And the EO they the minute chat GPT became a thing they 1317 01:22:32,670 --> 01:22:36,060 already had, you know, the same parlor trick on their homepage 1318 01:22:36,060 --> 01:22:39,450 actually doing what chat GPT does, like, Oh, you want that 1319 01:22:39,450 --> 01:22:42,810 your hold our beer? Here you go. They just implemented it. These 1320 01:22:42,810 --> 01:22:45,060 are the guys that, you know, that would be perfect for this. 1321 01:22:45,090 --> 01:22:50,130 But why wouldn't they have a tab that says Search podcasts, they 1322 01:22:50,130 --> 01:22:51,180 could do all of this. 1323 01:22:52,380 --> 01:22:56,250 You're you're not gonna get a, you're not gonna get a ranking 1324 01:22:56,310 --> 01:23:02,580 that's ever real in a way of sort of like popularity, the 1325 01:23:02,580 --> 01:23:07,620 best you can do is find you can mined the data for a specific 1326 01:23:07,620 --> 01:23:13,500 piece of information, like, I want podcasts episodes about a 1327 01:23:13,500 --> 01:23:17,730 topic, but you can't you can't pair that with any sort of 1328 01:23:17,730 --> 01:23:21,240 independent thing that says, Okay, now. Now out of all these 1329 01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:26,820 results, this is quote unquote, the best one is just unless I'm 1330 01:23:26,820 --> 01:23:28,680 missing something, I don't see any way 1331 01:23:28,710 --> 01:23:31,770 you need that feedback loop from Okay, which one's got clicked 1332 01:23:31,770 --> 01:23:35,070 on? Yeah, that's how you get back around to that PageRank 1333 01:23:35,070 --> 01:23:38,880 thing. So this is actually, you know, this is the job to be done 1334 01:23:39,060 --> 01:23:42,840 that Dave, you've repeatedly failed to articulate when 1335 01:23:43,260 --> 01:23:46,920 pattern was snow. Why? Why you want data from all the different 1336 01:23:46,950 --> 01:23:51,600 perhaps why you want popularity? It's really as weights for 1337 01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,800 things like search. Yeah, than it is. You heard me? 1338 01:23:56,160 --> 01:24:00,570 Yes, yes. Somebody heard me. Yes. You're exactly right. Like, 1339 01:24:01,230 --> 01:24:06,090 that's yes. Thank you, Nathan. I feel so validated and heard 1340 01:24:06,090 --> 01:24:06,510 right now. 1341 01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,670 Yeah. Another feature idea that I think can be built on 1342 01:24:08,670 --> 01:24:12,570 transcripts is if you are going to have some sort of like ask me 1343 01:24:12,570 --> 01:24:16,470 anything a portion of a show. If you're a longtime listener, and 1344 01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:18,450 you hear somebody asked a question that's been like, I 1345 01:24:18,450 --> 01:24:21,000 know, they've answered this before, it would have been great 1346 01:24:21,030 --> 01:24:23,460 in the Ask Me Anything form in the same way that like, if 1347 01:24:23,460 --> 01:24:25,830 you're gonna go submit a new post on StackOverflow it's like, 1348 01:24:25,860 --> 01:24:28,380 oh, by the way, this has already been asked like, you're writing 1349 01:24:28,380 --> 01:24:31,260 up a question right now that you think is novel, but I promise 1350 01:24:31,260 --> 01:24:33,090 you we've actually already addressed this and you can get 1351 01:24:33,090 --> 01:24:35,280 the answer immediately instead of waiting for the next episode, 1352 01:24:35,550 --> 01:24:39,300 and hope that they pick your question. So using transcripts 1353 01:24:39,300 --> 01:24:42,870 to enable search just have a specific show or if you just 1354 01:24:42,870 --> 01:24:45,420 want to search things I've listened to before I think that 1355 01:24:45,420 --> 01:24:49,230 is my personal like most interesting use that I want to 1356 01:24:49,230 --> 01:24:53,220 see built and maybe I have to do it myself but you know, I don't 1357 01:24:53,220 --> 01:24:57,180 like limit restrict my search to things you know, I have listened 1358 01:24:57,180 --> 01:25:00,180 to in this app because I'm trying to recall some thing 1359 01:25:00,180 --> 01:25:03,240 right now I'm not trying to like, oh, what's the world? You 1360 01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,420 know, I'm curious about some topic. And I want to know, I'm 1361 01:25:06,420 --> 01:25:09,450 just gonna go into the search box and hope that I find a host 1362 01:25:09,480 --> 01:25:10,620 that knows what they're talking about. 1363 01:25:11,490 --> 01:25:13,560 That's yeah, that's an interesting concept sort of like 1364 01:25:13,590 --> 01:25:16,200 email at that point. It's like, well, I read this email, but I 1365 01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:18,360 know it's in there somewhere. But I don't I don't know which 1366 01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:19,830 folder it's in. Oh, sounds 1367 01:25:19,830 --> 01:25:21,360 a lot like the freedom controller. 1368 01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:26,730 It does. I was trying to explain to Alex something about how I 1369 01:25:26,730 --> 01:25:29,640 use the framework early the other day, and I was like, yeah, 1370 01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:33,570 well do it. Like, I like this. And I'm like, Screw it. It's not 1371 01:25:33,570 --> 01:25:36,570 gonna make any sense to anybody. Yeah. 1372 01:25:37,830 --> 01:25:41,610 Yeah. I also want to see booster grams alongside the transcript 1373 01:25:41,610 --> 01:25:45,300 at the point when you'd like using the timestamp element, not 1374 01:25:45,300 --> 01:25:49,260 just you know, nobody is really using the timestamp element in 1375 01:25:49,260 --> 01:25:50,070 an interesting way. 1376 01:25:50,100 --> 01:25:52,170 Well, the stat and I think that's guys are the stats 1377 01:25:52,170 --> 01:25:55,500 package. Just use it, you get a good, nice timeline. And I do 1378 01:25:55,500 --> 01:25:57,660 look at I do look at that. Yeah. 1379 01:25:57,810 --> 01:26:03,180 But when, when the activity pub, like boost crossover thing that 1380 01:26:03,180 --> 01:26:06,060 Dave's working on is out there, I want to you know, display that 1381 01:26:06,060 --> 01:26:09,720 to listeners so that they can see you know, where a boost is 1382 01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,450 showing up along with the episode maybe, you know, in a 1383 01:26:12,450 --> 01:26:16,380 Google Docs comment style experience, where you can spark 1384 01:26:16,380 --> 01:26:19,050 a whole conversation thread off of, you know, an initial booster 1385 01:26:19,050 --> 01:26:21,450 gram, something like that. So I think there's plenty of new 1386 01:26:21,450 --> 01:26:23,580 features to build in the space couldn't 1387 01:26:23,580 --> 01:26:26,550 you? Couldn't you take a 1% could not add you as a split 1388 01:26:26,580 --> 01:26:29,820 into Yeah, or episode in the new see, because then you'd get the 1389 01:26:29,820 --> 01:26:32,400 boost. And you would see the timestamp and you just bid and 1390 01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:33,840 you'd be able to mark mark it 1391 01:26:33,900 --> 01:26:38,310 my favorite way of adding services to podcasts. Just 1392 01:26:38,790 --> 01:26:40,800 do that just as well. You will you start taking 1393 01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:45,060 splits. I've designed my own booster Graham interface. And 1394 01:26:46,860 --> 01:26:49,890 we'll see. We'll see when I will see where that gets right now 1395 01:26:49,890 --> 01:26:53,400 I'm, I'm I got more time on my hands to work on steno for now. 1396 01:26:53,430 --> 01:26:53,850 We'll see. 1397 01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,390 By the way day, we need to thank some people I think for the 1398 01:26:57,420 --> 01:27:01,260 podcast index.org website, which was recently upgraded with 1399 01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:04,890 Yes, and Nathan is part of that ball. 1400 01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,130 So explain explain what we've done here because it's 1401 01:27:08,130 --> 01:27:09,630 beautiful. Alright, 1402 01:27:10,410 --> 01:27:13,380 play along at home. Everybody got a podcast? index.org and 1403 01:27:13,380 --> 01:27:14,430 Nathan will tell you what happened. 1404 01:27:15,269 --> 01:27:21,089 Yeah, so you we added cross app comments. I wrote down the 1405 01:27:21,089 --> 01:27:29,819 pronunciation of gear gillerman. Yamo. I don't know at the end of 1406 01:27:29,819 --> 01:27:30,659 the name. Yeah. 1407 01:27:32,010 --> 01:27:36,630 Go there. ngModel. Augustine. The front pod station puts it on 1408 01:27:36,630 --> 01:27:36,990 dude, 1409 01:27:37,290 --> 01:27:39,480 pod Dev. He 1410 01:27:39,480 --> 01:27:42,510 did the vast majority of the work and I just contributed some 1411 01:27:43,380 --> 01:27:48,330 design help and some front end code. But we made a view only 1412 01:27:48,750 --> 01:27:53,070 cross app comments experience on the podcast index website. So if 1413 01:27:53,070 --> 01:27:58,380 you go to podcasting 2.0 scroll down, you know, find an episode 1414 01:27:58,410 --> 01:28:03,270 and hit show comments. We use John Spurlock's thread cap 1415 01:28:03,270 --> 01:28:09,060 library to pull in all the stuff attached to the root post on 1416 01:28:09,060 --> 01:28:09,540 this episode. 1417 01:28:09,570 --> 01:28:12,390 Now, how do I how do I get to how do we get to actually 1418 01:28:12,390 --> 01:28:14,220 responding from 1419 01:28:14,850 --> 01:28:18,000 nerves? Never. That's never on the line? Well, that's down the 1420 01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,570 line that that's that's gotta because, yeah, that's when you 1421 01:28:21,570 --> 01:28:26,910 do. I mean, the thing we came up with recently is Oh, off, you 1422 01:28:26,910 --> 01:28:30,180 know, off to a mastodon server, and then, but that, I mean, 1423 01:28:30,180 --> 01:28:35,280 that's like step two, you know, to me, the so this sparked a lot 1424 01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:40,860 of, you know, predictable debate about content moderation. I 1425 01:28:40,860 --> 01:28:44,790 guess I want to just just comment on that for a second. 1426 01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:49,200 This to me the most important thing about this whole page and 1427 01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:55,320 the way this is done, and kudos to to you or gillerman that that 1428 01:28:55,320 --> 01:29:00,600 did this is the show Comments button. The comments don't show 1429 01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:06,060 unless you go and ask for them. To me, that's critical. Because 1430 01:29:06,240 --> 01:29:10,800 otherwise you're you're just at the mercy of the of the moms is 1431 01:29:11,490 --> 01:29:14,340 also how YouTube does it. You have to click to get comments. 1432 01:29:15,089 --> 01:29:17,969 Yeah, and I think that's, I think that's critically 1433 01:29:17,969 --> 01:29:24,539 important because it takes 90% of the of the worry of I don't 1434 01:29:24,539 --> 01:29:29,609 want this stuff. I don't want X thing X and comment associated 1435 01:29:29,609 --> 01:29:34,559 with my content. You know, that when you have hide it behind a 1436 01:29:34,559 --> 01:29:39,119 user action, the same way that Mastodon does with a no content 1437 01:29:39,119 --> 01:29:44,459 warning that you're right. Okay, you were warned. You and you did 1438 01:29:44,459 --> 01:29:47,309 it anyway. So I mean, you're you're kind of you kind of know, 1439 01:29:47,489 --> 01:29:53,999 it, it, it sort of in a real way puts the expectation of, of 1440 01:29:53,999 --> 01:30:00,149 policing the user's eyeballs onto the user and not on to To 1441 01:30:00,149 --> 01:30:05,579 the Creator. I don't know, maybe maybe I just feel like it's 1442 01:30:05,579 --> 01:30:08,489 important is an important piece of the discussion. Because I 1443 01:30:08,489 --> 01:30:12,899 don't know that wherever, what, what people started talking 1444 01:30:12,899 --> 01:30:19,589 about, you know, or is, you know, I don't want one comment 1445 01:30:19,619 --> 01:30:22,919 out of all this stuff to not show up if it was like it had 1446 01:30:22,919 --> 01:30:26,369 something, profanity in it or something like that. I just 1447 01:30:26,369 --> 01:30:29,399 don't, that's just not the way that's not the way that Mastodon 1448 01:30:29,399 --> 01:30:32,909 or activity Pub is just not like that, you'll never you will 1449 01:30:32,909 --> 01:30:39,869 never have that level of control. There may be there may 1450 01:30:39,869 --> 01:30:46,409 be this, excuse me, let me rephrase that. It may be that, 1451 01:30:46,919 --> 01:30:51,689 for reasons of that are peculiar to Mastodon or certain 1452 01:30:51,689 --> 01:30:56,819 activitypub implementations, that when you retrieve a thread 1453 01:30:56,819 --> 01:31:02,039 of comments, like Nathan said, when, when the when thread cap 1454 01:31:02,069 --> 01:31:06,359 asks for the root post, and all the posts that comes with it, it 1455 01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:12,719 it might be that just by a vagary of the way that Mastodon 1456 01:31:12,719 --> 01:31:16,649 does things, that you that sometimes you could get rid of 1457 01:31:16,649 --> 01:31:22,019 one of those comments with hiding it or muting or something 1458 01:31:22,019 --> 01:31:25,739 like that. I don't know. We I don't think we know for sure 1459 01:31:25,739 --> 01:31:31,379 yet. It but it might be that. But that's a different thing. 1460 01:31:31,409 --> 01:31:34,139 That should not set the expectation that that's always 1461 01:31:34,139 --> 01:31:38,429 possible across all of activity, public permutations. Because I 1462 01:31:38,429 --> 01:31:42,119 guarantee you, I don't think that's part of the spec. And I 1463 01:31:42,119 --> 01:31:44,429 guarantee you that there are going to be implementations of 1464 01:31:44,429 --> 01:31:49,169 activity pub, that do not honor that sort of thing. They're just 1465 01:31:49,169 --> 01:31:52,109 going to show you everything that they know about whether 1466 01:31:52,109 --> 01:31:55,229 it's been deleted, or any of that is that you're feeling as 1467 01:31:55,229 --> 01:31:55,799 well, Nathan, 1468 01:31:56,820 --> 01:32:02,460 I think the podcaster is opting in to the set of moderation 1469 01:32:02,460 --> 01:32:06,360 controls they want by what route posts, they put in the URL. So 1470 01:32:06,570 --> 01:32:11,010 if they want to host their own situation, host their own 1471 01:32:11,010 --> 01:32:14,610 activity pub server, where they have full control over what 1472 01:32:14,610 --> 01:32:17,550 replays are visible, they can, you know, go that far. And if 1473 01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:21,510 they want to just put a link to a podcast index, not social 1474 01:32:21,510 --> 01:32:23,970 thing, they're leaving it up to you, all right. So they are 1475 01:32:23,970 --> 01:32:28,440 choosing their own moderation controls. Based on you know, at 1476 01:32:28,440 --> 01:32:31,470 that point when they decide the route post, and that's the, 1477 01:32:31,500 --> 01:32:34,410 that's the moment when they have control to decide how much 1478 01:32:34,410 --> 01:32:38,280 moderation they want. Anything like after that point is, you 1479 01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:42,150 know, if you're trying to, you know, ask other people's service 1480 01:32:42,150 --> 01:32:45,060 to be managed, the way you want it to be managed than just run 1481 01:32:45,060 --> 01:32:49,320 your own service. And, you know, different people can provide 1482 01:32:49,530 --> 01:32:52,500 activity, both servers that suit your own tastes for moderation. 1483 01:32:53,670 --> 01:32:56,040 Yeah, I think that's the best you can hope for. I just think 1484 01:32:56,040 --> 01:32:58,770 it's a different. It's a different world and you can't, 1485 01:32:59,070 --> 01:33:02,580 this new world of Mastodon where everybody left, everybody left 1486 01:33:02,580 --> 01:33:06,750 the centralized thing of Twitter and they hated it. They had you 1487 01:33:06,870 --> 01:33:11,280 they just absolutely despised it. But and it had all the 1488 01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,860 moderate it had all the moderation tools there. But it 1489 01:33:13,860 --> 01:33:18,570 but they hated it. And they went to Mastodon and the, the 1490 01:33:18,570 --> 01:33:22,620 mastodon universe is such that if somebody comments on your 1491 01:33:22,620 --> 01:33:28,290 post, and their server is not blocked, you're gonna see it, 1492 01:33:28,500 --> 01:33:30,630 you're just gonna see it, that's just the way that it goes. And 1493 01:33:30,630 --> 01:33:35,160 so I mean, if really, it's just, I hate this is the bomb, you 1494 01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:39,000 know, we talked about, you know, to get to nuclear subs, you had 1495 01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,660 to go through the you had to blow shit up. But this is the 1496 01:33:42,660 --> 01:33:46,980 bomb Gehrman Gehrman. And Nathan, they invented the bomb. 1497 01:33:47,220 --> 01:33:52,620 Now. Now we have to, you know, down the line, step two, step 1498 01:33:52,620 --> 01:33:55,530 three, where as we're going down the line, and then then we get 1499 01:33:55,530 --> 01:33:59,280 to nuclear subs and you know, in the in the stuff that actually 1500 01:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,250 is useful for society. But this stuff right here, this is just 1501 01:34:02,250 --> 01:34:05,400 step this is step one, and I don't know that. I don't know 1502 01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:08,310 that we're at the point yet, where control is the proper 1503 01:34:08,310 --> 01:34:09,540 discussion, maybe that's going 1504 01:34:09,570 --> 01:34:15,150 well, but this is very typical in podcasting land, where, since 1505 01:34:15,180 --> 01:34:19,500 we didn't have both sides of the equation with hosts and apps, 1506 01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,340 people just throw up roadblocks all the time on Slack channels, 1507 01:34:23,370 --> 01:34:27,390 and then nothing got anywhere. And so now we have running with 1508 01:34:27,390 --> 01:34:30,150 scissors. That's how you get stuff done. 1509 01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:37,980 Yeah, yeah, no, I think I mean, I think the this additional 1510 01:34:37,980 --> 01:34:40,680 thing, there's a way there's just not a way at this point in 1511 01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:45,450 time to be sure that any specific sort of moderation is 1512 01:34:45,510 --> 01:34:47,670 gonna happen. I think that I think that just that idea needs 1513 01:34:47,670 --> 01:34:51,030 to be left no off the table for the time being, you know, down 1514 01:34:51,030 --> 01:34:55,200 the road, we'll see. But I mean, as far as interest, just 1515 01:34:55,200 --> 01:35:00,660 generally speaking, the website is beautiful. I mean, Dark mode. 1516 01:35:01,260 --> 01:35:05,520 We know with dark mode. I mean, like, it's fantastic. The dark 1517 01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:10,560 mode is fantastic. The comments are fantastic. I think somebody 1518 01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:14,490 was I think Guillermo was saying that he's also working on, on 1519 01:35:14,490 --> 01:35:16,650 performance, like to get the comments to load a little bit 1520 01:35:16,650 --> 01:35:19,110 faster, because there is a delay there. 1521 01:35:19,260 --> 01:35:22,800 Or maybe give me a little spinning wheel. Oh, yes. A 1522 01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:23,400 little a little a 1523 01:35:23,490 --> 01:35:26,190 little spinny. Yeah, yeah, that's already that's, that's a 1524 01:35:26,190 --> 01:35:29,220 UI decision. That's next Nathan Lucia. Talk to him about that. 1525 01:35:30,510 --> 01:35:31,320 Shall we? Yeah, he 1526 01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:31,980 has a little spinner. 1527 01:35:32,190 --> 01:35:35,490 Shall we thank a couple people. I'm sorry to say I just have a 1528 01:35:35,490 --> 01:35:36,450 hard doubt coming up. 1529 01:35:37,890 --> 01:35:40,020 You're not sorry to say that you like saying the MO Horta. 1530 01:35:40,050 --> 01:35:42,930 I love saying it. I hate people who say that I'm kind of hard 1531 01:35:42,930 --> 01:35:45,030 out before the meeting. I'm sorry, I have a hard out. Well, 1532 01:35:45,030 --> 01:35:47,100 why don't you go fuck yourself that you don't have the meeting 1533 01:35:47,100 --> 01:35:52,440 with me. So, so it's nice. I'm happy to say it once. By the way 1534 01:35:52,440 --> 01:35:58,440 want to make note that we now have 12,044 feeds with value 1535 01:35:58,440 --> 01:36:05,130 blocks in the index is cranking like at at almost eight 910 x 1536 01:36:05,130 --> 01:36:09,240 what it used to do, we'd have a couple a day now we're talking 1537 01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:16,260 3040 a day. And I'm not exactly sure why. Other than we just 1538 01:36:16,260 --> 01:36:19,680 rock, but I'm not sure. It's not. There's no other 1539 01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:23,070 explanation that we're seeing it in transactions on the index as 1540 01:36:23,070 --> 01:36:26,610 well. It's it's up. We're trending. We're trending up. 1541 01:36:26,610 --> 01:36:28,020 It's it's very exciting. 1542 01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:34,260 Very exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When thanks me, was that. That's 1543 01:36:34,260 --> 01:36:35,100 it. We were gonna thank some people. 1544 01:36:35,130 --> 01:36:38,340 Oh, yeah. Okay, let me let me get the booster grams that have 1545 01:36:38,340 --> 01:36:42,450 come in so far, because people are always boosting live. We 1546 01:36:42,450 --> 01:36:46,530 have Todd Cochran. Now who was boosted multiple times 25,000 1547 01:36:46,530 --> 01:36:49,260 isaps. Here this challenge improved. And he would know, the 1548 01:36:49,260 --> 01:36:52,110 challenge of programmatic ads is that the ad fill rate is about 1549 01:36:52,110 --> 01:36:55,800 80% and changes by the second so the transcript offset signal 1550 01:36:56,010 --> 01:36:58,380 would be from Download to download and needs to be in the 1551 01:36:58,380 --> 01:37:01,770 download metadata to signal the offset. We've been working with 1552 01:37:01,770 --> 01:37:04,440 our ad delivery partner to have a solution. I have a solution. 1553 01:37:04,530 --> 01:37:07,350 Cool. I'm glad because right on it. Yeah. Oh, you can use my 1554 01:37:07,350 --> 01:37:13,740 solution. Just get rid of it. Like Sockeye the horse 1000 SATs 1555 01:37:13,740 --> 01:37:18,420 Thank you, Eric P P. 33,333. There's Todd Cochran again 1556 01:37:19,470 --> 01:37:22,620 100,000 Satoshis Bala 1557 01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:26,430 Sakala 20 is Blaze on the Impala 1558 01:37:26,460 --> 01:37:29,850 I've been adding liquidity to my personal lightning node ugh such 1559 01:37:29,850 --> 01:37:32,700 a pain in the ass with channels so much fun lol but thank 1560 01:37:32,700 --> 01:37:35,850 goodness Albion pod verse fountain etc making this easy go 1561 01:37:35,850 --> 01:37:41,160 podcasting. You know, I heard Todd talking about that. Yeah, 1562 01:37:41,370 --> 01:37:45,750 I'm doing stuff with liquidity. I'm like no, stay away. Don't do 1563 01:37:45,750 --> 01:37:50,970 it. Stop it. Stop Todd stop. It's a hole. You do not want to 1564 01:37:50,970 --> 01:37:54,600 go down there you don't I'm just saying I love brother. I love 1565 01:37:54,990 --> 01:37:57,390 it let's there Spencer. Just get on with such bizarre let him do 1566 01:37:57,390 --> 01:37:58,740 a ring of fire with you and you'll be done. 1567 01:37:59,580 --> 01:38:06,000 Ring of Fire 6666 from blueberry mainstream conspiracy podcast 1568 01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:08,670 and bitching about suppression on Spotify go together like 1569 01:38:08,670 --> 01:38:12,150 peanut butter and spoiled Mayo for the love of all good things 1570 01:38:12,150 --> 01:38:15,690 and natural make it stop? I have no idea what he's talking about. 1571 01:38:15,780 --> 01:38:16,740 I had no idea either. 1572 01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:25,140 Sir lurks a lot. With a super leaps will 13,370 Lalala lit 1573 01:38:25,140 --> 01:38:30,600 boost Thank you very much. Steven Be a satchel Richards 1574 01:38:30,690 --> 01:38:36,270 11,111 Shameless plug music side project.com is now live listen 1575 01:38:36,270 --> 01:38:39,900 to and boost your favorite RSS music feeds. I'm also working on 1576 01:38:39,900 --> 01:38:45,390 an MSP studio, MSP Microsoft Project managed service provider 1577 01:38:45,420 --> 01:38:48,240 I don't know, which will be a simplified version of sovereign 1578 01:38:48,240 --> 01:38:52,890 feeds. Oh, oh, a music service provider studio. I missed it. 1579 01:38:52,890 --> 01:38:56,940 What is MSP? What does MSP stand for? Which will be a simplified 1580 01:38:56,940 --> 01:39:00,510 version of sovereign feeds which I use focused on making a music 1581 01:39:00,510 --> 01:39:04,860 feed Oh decentralized music for the win. No music side projects 1582 01:39:04,860 --> 01:39:10,920 studio da MSD Yeah. Oh. We got a drip Scott. There were the 1583 01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:18,360 333,333 we thanked him for that. Blueberry was in early listening 1584 01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,420 to some of the we were playing we always start off when we when 1585 01:39:21,420 --> 01:39:24,660 we hit the lip about 1015 minutes before we before we 1586 01:39:24,660 --> 01:39:29,580 start with 100 Personal retro sing along and he was boosting 1587 01:39:29,580 --> 01:39:34,170 along a boost along to Shakira and he boosted oh baby when you 1588 01:39:34,170 --> 01:39:37,830 boost like that nice 13,369 1589 01:39:38,490 --> 01:39:40,200 Blueberry here's secure fan. 1590 01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:47,820 Beautiful. Let me see. Pfeiffer 3800 breezes stubbornly refusing 1591 01:39:47,820 --> 01:39:50,940 to refill my curio caster wallet boosting remaining balance go 1592 01:39:50,940 --> 01:39:58,290 podcasting Dobby does who I heard on he's our says blue.com 1593 01:39:58,290 --> 01:40:03,180 Right you A very interesting guy doing is starting off from 1594 01:40:03,180 --> 01:40:07,110 scratch with a hosting company all to point out love at 25,000 1595 01:40:07,110 --> 01:40:11,010 SATs Thank you. And there's Martin Linda's code with a nice 1596 01:40:11,010 --> 01:40:17,640 row of ducks. 22,222 He says he says I wonder if Apple podcasts 1597 01:40:17,640 --> 01:40:20,850 app is searchable for the ducks in the row. I doubt it. I've 1598 01:40:20,850 --> 01:40:25,500 added chapters with my images that my co host Karina Rubinius 1599 01:40:25,710 --> 01:40:29,010 has created in Canva by use visit RFM studio to add the 1600 01:40:29,010 --> 01:40:31,140 images could it be that captivate is not supporting 1601 01:40:31,140 --> 01:40:39,030 chapters yet? I don't know. I don't know. And then I think SLC 1602 01:40:39,030 --> 01:40:42,840 no that's for no agenda. I think that's it. The rest would be on 1603 01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:44,700 your output of the booster grams Dave. 1604 01:40:45,480 --> 01:40:48,660 Oh, yes, we have no PayPals there's no weekly session 1605 01:40:48,660 --> 01:40:50,400 complete. It's done. 1606 01:40:50,730 --> 01:40:58,170 Overnight. Hold on here to here it is me now. Yeah. Nice. I like 1607 01:40:58,170 --> 01:40:58,410 it. 1608 01:40:59,220 --> 01:41:03,120 Real Estate's from Joel wo 1111. No Nope through fountain and we 1609 01:41:03,120 --> 01:41:08,460 get a Hardhead one a 101 binary boost through curio caster note 1610 01:41:08,460 --> 01:41:14,400 from hard hat Thank you hard hat 438 SATs for Sir Michael's low 1611 01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:17,130 bid at those good No. Hey Dave, would you please approve my pull 1612 01:41:17,130 --> 01:41:20,310 request Okay, thanks bye. Yes, I'm just always 1613 01:41:20,340 --> 01:41:23,250 that's always a weird thing for guys to say to each other just 1614 01:41:25,260 --> 01:41:36,630 approve of it. Copy 1980 40,000 sets through fountain This is 1615 01:41:36,630 --> 01:41:37,530 100% 1616 01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:39,870 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. 1617 01:41:40,830 --> 01:41:44,190 No what I think you mean RP is painstakingly 1618 01:41:44,250 --> 01:41:49,110 or I say five by five is my new 105 by five five by five 1619 01:41:49,710 --> 01:41:56,100 in the pipe in the Satoshi stream 5552 through fountain it 1620 01:41:56,100 --> 01:41:59,760 says 25 years of XML and he has a link to the RFC for a 1621 01:42:00,690 --> 01:42:03,720 nice happy birthday. XML was right yes, 1622 01:42:03,780 --> 01:42:08,070 Satoshi Strange is really fired up about XML chat F 1000 SATs 1623 01:42:08,070 --> 01:42:11,250 through pod verse he says test boost from the Orion browser on 1624 01:42:11,250 --> 01:42:14,070 iOS using pod verse.fm and the lb extension. 1625 01:42:14,730 --> 01:42:19,200 Wow. Oh, that's right. You can run you can run the extensions 1626 01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:21,060 in the Orion browser. That's right. 1627 01:42:21,630 --> 01:42:26,820 Chad F is doing the is doing the AES the official bookkeeper now 1628 01:42:26,820 --> 01:42:30,270 off the bucket of I guessing 2.0. And going back and doing 1629 01:42:30,300 --> 01:42:33,270 every accounting on every single episode. I'm 1630 01:42:33,270 --> 01:42:36,210 not sure exactly what the point is. But it's interesting. It 1631 01:42:36,210 --> 01:42:38,670 shows the value for value works. That's for sure. 1632 01:42:39,599 --> 01:42:43,109 Yeah, when we will. When you when you go when you're done, 1633 01:42:43,109 --> 01:42:45,419 send it to us or send it to CPA for taxes. 1634 01:42:45,450 --> 01:42:48,660 Yeah, I want to can you do it in QuickBooks, 1635 01:42:49,170 --> 01:42:56,400 QuickBooks? korkin send us 10,000 sets through Felty says 1636 01:42:56,400 --> 01:42:59,070 thanks, guys. Keep up the awesome work. wishing there was 1637 01:42:59,070 --> 01:43:01,680 an easy way to get normally listeners converted to vie for V 1638 01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:05,160 and BTC. But it seems they still want to default to Pay Pal and 1639 01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:08,400 cookbooks. Hard to break through the years of bad education and 1640 01:43:08,460 --> 01:43:10,080 government money propaganda. 1641 01:43:10,110 --> 01:43:14,820 It is indeed very difficult. But if you keep at it, and you don't 1642 01:43:14,820 --> 01:43:17,940 give the easy way out, which created the keeper has done 1643 01:43:17,940 --> 01:43:22,740 which really been very hard. Most people just turns out love 1644 01:43:22,740 --> 01:43:25,710 to just click on the link when you tweet it out. I just 1645 01:43:25,710 --> 01:43:29,310 listened to the browser. So we've actively actively said 1646 01:43:29,310 --> 01:43:34,920 please do this, get the get the we promote a different value for 1647 01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:39,810 value app each time. And the only the ones that do refills in 1648 01:43:39,810 --> 01:43:44,760 the app. It's hard is very hard to start with any listener group 1649 01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:48,270 who are not already clued in, but it's well worth it because 1650 01:43:48,300 --> 01:43:50,520 people when it comes through when you read their booster 1651 01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:54,210 gram, everyone's kind of jazzed it's a good feeling. It's worth 1652 01:43:54,240 --> 01:43:55,770 it's worth hanging in there. 1653 01:43:56,850 --> 01:44:00,810 Dave Jackson 10,000 SAS Hall of Famer do fountain net. I 1654 01:44:00,810 --> 01:44:04,680 remember Lilian acts on the ball. Love them. Play. Cool 1655 01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:07,680 played the day that I met you for the keeper. You'll thank me 1656 01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:08,010 later. 1657 01:44:08,040 --> 01:44:14,640 I did. I did. And you know what, Dave? Thank you. You get a hard 1658 01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:17,130 out. Very hard out on that one. 1659 01:44:18,540 --> 01:44:19,680 Go prove your pull request. 1660 01:44:22,170 --> 01:44:23,670 You want to go into one step too far. 1661 01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:27,240 And we have had the horse had did it to me. It's his fault. 1662 01:44:27,420 --> 01:44:30,930 Mere Mortals podcast 8008. Boot donation through fountain he 1663 01:44:30,930 --> 01:44:34,500 says, Oh, I know how to explain the split. Simply imagine there 1664 01:44:34,500 --> 01:44:37,620 are eight and a half people and we want to evenly split the SATs 1665 01:44:37,620 --> 01:44:40,560 according to the ratio of their good mic technique divided by 1666 01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,320 the square root of their filler words. If we assume an 1667 01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:46,380 exponential Keynesian model, there's infinite incoming step 1668 01:44:46,410 --> 01:44:49,530 sets. Knowing this each person will receive a percentage that 1669 01:44:49,530 --> 01:44:56,940 adds up to 100 Wait, what? Okay, wow, yeah, baby. It's 37 ad from 1670 01:44:56,940 --> 01:45:00,270 anonymous to get automatic. No, nope. I think give 1671 01:45:02,340 --> 01:45:05,160 notice to cast ematic getting a little more action lately. 1672 01:45:05,700 --> 01:45:10,770 I have yeah yeah it's come it's coming up if people haven't 1673 01:45:10,770 --> 01:45:14,760 tried if you're on an iPhone you haven't tried cast Matic if you 1674 01:45:14,760 --> 01:45:18,840 haven't tried to send a booster away it's I would recommend it 1675 01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:22,950 like go do a boosted cast ematic and look at the way Franco if 1676 01:45:22,950 --> 01:45:27,990 there's a problem and one of the splits Fails of the screen that 1677 01:45:27,990 --> 01:45:31,920 comes up it's really cool I mean you can see exactly what's going 1678 01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:35,220 on like it's He's done a lot. He just keeps doing a lot of work 1679 01:45:35,220 --> 01:45:38,970 there and he just never He never tells anybody what he's doing it 1680 01:45:38,970 --> 01:45:41,280 just keeps getting better silently under the covers like 1681 01:45:41,280 --> 01:45:43,560 all of a sudden I just noticed new things pop up all the time 1682 01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:49,020 so cool. Good app. Yeah. I'm robot 8008 The Fountain he says 1683 01:45:49,050 --> 01:45:52,950 shout out craps crippled apps go podcast crap. 1684 01:45:54,810 --> 01:45:55,620 Got about that. 1685 01:45:57,060 --> 01:46:01,200 SLC 7777 striper boost through fountain he says casting off the 1686 01:46:01,200 --> 01:46:06,900 God of Mammon with podcasting turbo boost Oh yeah. Boost some 1687 01:46:06,900 --> 01:46:11,940 quack 111 says I love this show. Do my low set boost also cost 1688 01:46:11,940 --> 01:46:15,750 you money will save and boost bigger if rare and so okay. 1689 01:46:16,980 --> 01:46:19,890 Just boost bigger all the time. Boost boost boost 1690 01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:20,220 almost 1691 01:46:20,429 --> 01:46:24,119 always the answer? Yeah. Mere Mortals podcast row does 2222 1692 01:46:24,119 --> 01:46:26,879 through fat and he says some quack asked an important 1693 01:46:26,879 --> 01:46:29,669 question. But it was beneath the cut off. So I just wanted to 1694 01:46:29,669 --> 01:46:33,629 make sure it got read. To quote. Love this show. Demopolis Okay, 1695 01:46:33,869 --> 01:46:38,399 I will save up and boost bigger. Wait, what? This must be on the 1696 01:46:38,429 --> 01:46:41,789 quote. This must be on the comments on fountain. That must 1697 01:46:41,789 --> 01:46:44,399 be where this stuff is happening. Oh, okay. That went 1698 01:46:44,399 --> 01:46:48,269 through me for a loop. Oh, yes. Comment? Yeah. Okay. See? Oh, 1699 01:46:48,269 --> 01:46:51,029 okay. So that was his way of boosting his comments so that it 1700 01:46:51,029 --> 01:46:54,989 would come through and I would read it. Oh, interesting. Okay. 1701 01:46:55,319 --> 01:46:59,999 5000 SATs there from anonymous on pod version of note 25,000 1702 01:46:59,999 --> 01:47:02,879 SATs from Borlaug through pod verse and he says just wanted to 1703 01:47:02,879 --> 01:47:06,089 send my gratitude completely enninful For what the two of you 1704 01:47:06,089 --> 01:47:09,899 are doing well. Thank you Borla appreciate it. Sir Brian of 1705 01:47:09,899 --> 01:47:13,889 London 169,000 SATs index website 1706 01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:15,420 Wow. 1707 01:47:15,630 --> 01:47:19,680 Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala. 1708 01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:23,280 Whilst my new recurring donation system via hive is in 1709 01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:25,650 development, I'll send my ketchup boost this way via the 1710 01:47:25,650 --> 01:47:29,610 POS. Mr. Nice IV sir, thank you, Brian. appreciate them recognize 1711 01:47:30,990 --> 01:47:35,520 the same Oscar Mary 30 3015 Howdy David Adam Oscar busco on 1712 01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:38,340 behalf of Mr. BlogHer as a test to make sure all the splits are 1713 01:47:38,340 --> 01:47:38,760 green. 1714 01:47:40,650 --> 01:47:44,040 He is our canary in the coal mine doesn't work happy app not 1715 01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:44,580 working. 1716 01:47:45,090 --> 01:47:51,840 Fe happy he's like his comment that Yoda was wrong there is try 1717 01:47:54,900 --> 01:47:57,930 tone wrecker one on one on one the binary boost the pod verse 1718 01:47:57,930 --> 01:48:02,370 he says something new to test music side project.com thank you 1719 01:48:02,370 --> 01:48:05,460 Steven V. Always the king of the yes 1720 01:48:05,460 --> 01:48:07,470 yes, Doc king of the iKOU 1721 01:48:08,490 --> 01:48:13,290 record one Oh Big Dig satchel Richards 11 111 through fountain 1722 01:48:13,290 --> 01:48:17,640 he says wave lake.com helps nearly 100 artists sharing their 1723 01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:18,150 music. 1724 01:48:19,980 --> 01:48:23,400 They have 100 100 artists on the put I've been put into the 1725 01:48:23,400 --> 01:48:25,440 index. Is that how I interpret that? 1726 01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:33,690 I don't know. I don't know. Oh, see? Or say well, let's come 1727 01:48:33,690 --> 01:48:38,160 back to that later. Let's see them. 22 to 22 they're found he 1728 01:48:38,160 --> 01:48:40,950 says I wonder if Apple podcasts app is searching for the ducks 1729 01:48:40,980 --> 01:48:44,070 in the row you already read that is did you already read that? 1730 01:48:44,430 --> 01:48:45,810 That came in just a second ago? 1731 01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:48,270 Yes. Yes. We've been through that one Well, where's comments 1732 01:48:48,270 --> 01:48:50,610 or Blogger? Was he the was that the delimiter? No. 1733 01:48:50,670 --> 01:48:54,030 Did you read Dobby? Das is 25 though yes I do. Okay, all 1734 01:48:54,030 --> 01:48:58,320 right. So I hit the bottom bottom of your rock by hit 1735 01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:02,010 bottom comic strip blogger 30 3015 through fountain and he 1736 01:49:02,010 --> 01:49:06,690 says Adam and Dave I priests a top the black box Mystery School 1737 01:49:06,690 --> 01:49:10,380 of the podcast pyramid. Please accepted this offering of sets 1738 01:49:10,590 --> 01:49:14,400 as our initiation fee is tectonic plates of ingenuity 1739 01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:17,730 continue to shift. We beseech the boardrooms, attendees to 1740 01:49:17,730 --> 01:49:20,760 reconcile the colliding of manufactured sentience and free 1741 01:49:20,760 --> 01:49:25,590 speech by downloading the AI doc cooking podcast. Read by TV show 1742 01:49:25,590 --> 01:49:29,490 deviser Gregory Forman yo CSB second try 1743 01:49:31,530 --> 01:49:34,740 thank you so USB and we had a late comer hear from someone 1744 01:49:34,740 --> 01:49:41,610 named Hal was write a short row of of sticks 1111 I saw the live 1745 01:49:41,610 --> 01:49:44,940 tag on pod bursts felt compelled to boost see how that works. 1746 01:49:45,570 --> 01:49:49,200 Yet, just the life of them hit just the life tag at dopamine 1747 01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:52,950 hit exactly. All right, we have any monthlies to account 1748 01:49:52,950 --> 01:49:57,930 for we do we get to your killer at $5 Chris Cowan $5 Jeffrey 1749 01:49:57,930 --> 01:50:04,230 Rutherford $5 Jeremy Kavanaugh $10 Derek J. Vickery. $21 Paul 1750 01:50:04,230 --> 01:50:10,320 Saltzman 2222 Daymond Cassie Jack $15 David Norman, our buddy 1751 01:50:10,350 --> 01:50:15,960 hypercare $25 Jeremy gerdts $5 Timothy Hudgins my buddy $25. 1752 01:50:16,290 --> 01:50:18,270 And David would find $3 in them. 1753 01:50:19,140 --> 01:50:23,430 Thank you all very much. This podcast as a long with the 1754 01:50:23,430 --> 01:50:27,600 entire podcast and 2.0 Podcast. index.org project is value for 1755 01:50:27,600 --> 01:50:31,680 value, no creepy corporate money, no VCs, no advertising, 1756 01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:34,590 just the people who participate in the project. And if you're 1757 01:50:34,590 --> 01:50:37,050 listening to this you just listener, you're more than 1758 01:50:37,050 --> 01:50:40,290 welcome to contribute. Go to podcasts. index.org go down to 1759 01:50:40,290 --> 01:50:43,620 the bottom you can do read donate buttons. One is for tally 1760 01:50:43,620 --> 01:50:46,530 coin, which I did check earlier on. Just make sure if you want 1761 01:50:46,530 --> 01:50:49,710 to send us that full Bitcoin that you've been just there's 1762 01:50:49,710 --> 01:50:52,380 been jingling in your pocket. Like, ah, what am I going to do 1763 01:50:52,380 --> 01:50:55,860 with this thing, you can scan and scan the QR code there. No 1764 01:50:55,860 --> 01:51:00,300 one did that today. You can use your Fiat fun coupons if you 1765 01:51:00,300 --> 01:51:04,080 want, which is through PayPal. But we encourage you go to 1766 01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:08,310 podcast apps.com. There you can see a whole bunch of cool things 1767 01:51:08,310 --> 01:51:12,210 that are working with podcast index.org, including apps, and 1768 01:51:12,210 --> 01:51:15,030 they'll tell exactly what features they use. And please 1769 01:51:15,060 --> 01:51:18,720 give one or give all of them a try. It's well worth it and just 1770 01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:23,220 remember to boost boost boost often boost hard boost deep 1771 01:51:23,490 --> 01:51:25,830 boost. just made that up. 1772 01:51:27,480 --> 01:51:28,470 So but coming up. 1773 01:51:29,400 --> 01:51:33,120 Really. I gotta we need to get one of those nut jobs from the 1774 01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:38,160 chat room on the show in the boardroom Dave. Whoever's doing 1775 01:51:38,160 --> 01:51:41,400 this, whoever is doing all these. We've got booths, bots, I 1776 01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:44,700 saw bots. I mean, there's that there's something called gal gal 1777 01:51:44,700 --> 01:51:45,180 gal 1778 01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:47,610 and serious gal, blueberry. 1779 01:51:48,810 --> 01:51:53,520 Whoever it is we didn't go to we need to bring them in. They 1780 01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:58,530 probably use blueberry. All right. What 1781 01:51:58,530 --> 01:52:01,680 else? I don't know. You got to heart out and I got a hard doc 1782 01:52:01,680 --> 01:52:02,190 coming up. 1783 01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:07,500 Hey, by the way, we you we reused a title from no agenda. 1784 01:52:07,950 --> 01:52:12,570 We did. Yeah, lawful but awful is like Episode 14, something 1785 01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:16,170 you already used with lawful but awful we need. We need a search. 1786 01:52:16,290 --> 01:52:18,270 We need a title search. So we don't do we don't? 1787 01:52:18,540 --> 01:52:21,810 Oh, my goodness. Well, that is yeah, that's on me. I usually 1788 01:52:21,810 --> 01:52:25,740 I'm pretty good catching that stuff. Got it. We've even used 1789 01:52:26,580 --> 01:52:30,750 titles on no agenda that we've used before on no agenda. Again, 1790 01:52:30,750 --> 01:52:35,580 for the second time, I mean, 50 130 gets a little fuzzy, 1791 01:52:35,610 --> 01:52:41,820 that's a little fuzzy. I just want to congratulate Zion, Zion, 1792 01:52:41,820 --> 01:52:46,410 who launched something. And they initially were trying to, I 1793 01:52:46,800 --> 01:52:51,270 think that they they took the whole of sphinx was that thing 1794 01:52:51,270 --> 01:52:55,290 called, again, the Sphinx relay. I took the open source code and 1795 01:52:55,290 --> 01:52:59,100 turn it into whatever it is, they rebranded as web five app, 1796 01:52:59,130 --> 01:53:01,830 and now they got $6 million. So congratulations, 1797 01:53:02,760 --> 01:53:05,100 Nathan, you should do that. Just read Web. 1798 01:53:06,030 --> 01:53:09,540 Web five man web five app. It's a web five experience. 1799 01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:13,230 You've got so much blank space at the top of steno that if you 1800 01:53:13,230 --> 01:53:16,440 can easily fit the words web five up there. 1801 01:53:17,460 --> 01:53:21,630 I agree. Web five. But hey, maybe that's our title web five. 1802 01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:22,950 What do you say? Yeah. Oh, 1803 01:53:22,950 --> 01:53:26,820 yeah. There you go website. And you get $6 million. 1804 01:53:27,420 --> 01:53:30,420 I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna nuke the titles. Either we're 1805 01:53:30,420 --> 01:53:33,150 trending, which I like or web five. Which What do you want? 1806 01:53:33,150 --> 01:53:36,030 Which one do we choose here? Yeah, we're trending is pretty 1807 01:53:36,030 --> 01:53:37,020 good to actually, 1808 01:53:37,650 --> 01:53:40,950 that's actually pretty good. Because we are trending on. I 1809 01:53:40,950 --> 01:53:43,020 mean, that's literally true. There's not a lot. 1810 01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:45,210 And he finally figured out how to explain why you wanted 1811 01:53:45,210 --> 01:53:46,590 popularity stuff. So 1812 01:53:46,920 --> 01:53:50,130 that's true. Yes. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 1813 01:53:52,350 --> 01:53:54,750 And one thing I wanted to throw out there, which I thought was 1814 01:53:54,750 --> 01:53:59,190 interesting, this podcast, one is spinning out of what is it? 1815 01:54:00,210 --> 01:54:05,520 Radio One on one, live, one live live. But what did what they're 1816 01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:08,220 doing and I just, I just want to make sure that I'm not the only 1817 01:54:08,220 --> 01:54:11,070 one smelling this. So here's the release podcast. One is 1818 01:54:11,070 --> 01:54:15,030 partnering with vs game to offer listeners a way to engage with 1819 01:54:15,030 --> 01:54:19,410 the network's podcast host through gamification. Many games 1820 01:54:19,440 --> 01:54:21,870 have been launched on the platform that enable listeners 1821 01:54:21,870 --> 01:54:25,920 to watch and answer prediction and opinion based questions to 1822 01:54:25,950 --> 01:54:30,300 win rewards. Does this sound like one of those scams where 1823 01:54:30,300 --> 01:54:32,610 people are playing a game and it plays a little bit of the 1824 01:54:32,610 --> 01:54:33,450 podcast? 1825 01:54:34,470 --> 01:54:37,410 I think it's more like Google opinion rewards plus podcast 1826 01:54:37,410 --> 01:54:37,860 listening. 1827 01:54:39,840 --> 01:54:41,070 What does that have? No. 1828 01:54:41,130 --> 01:54:43,020 Have You Ever Have you ever heard of Google opinion rewards? 1829 01:54:43,020 --> 01:54:45,570 It's basically like, Hey, would you like to take a survey? And 1830 01:54:45,570 --> 01:54:47,250 we'll give you a little bit of Google Play credit? 1831 01:54:47,610 --> 01:54:49,200 Ah, all right. 1832 01:54:50,520 --> 01:54:54,150 That's so when I heard when I heard their numbers. They were 1833 01:54:54,150 --> 01:54:58,140 like, man, podcast. One had a great revenue this quarter. And 1834 01:54:58,140 --> 01:54:59,970 it's like, well, yeah, they're about to IPO. 1835 01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:03,900 Like, but they had like $3 million or something. Yeah. 1836 01:55:04,530 --> 01:55:07,080 But they're literally about to IPO as a separate company. Of 1837 01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:09,000 course, they're gonna say that they had a bunch of money 1838 01:55:09,570 --> 01:55:12,180 for their total revenue, annual revenue if I if I didn't 1839 01:55:12,180 --> 01:55:15,270 misunderstand was $12 million. That's not I mean, and that's 1840 01:55:15,270 --> 01:55:19,080 not profit, that's revenue they expect. I've read some of their 1841 01:55:19,140 --> 01:55:22,020 documents. They don't expect to be profitable for quite a while. 1842 01:55:22,230 --> 01:55:24,600 $12 million, and revs Come on 1843 01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:28,380 people. Where's all the dollars? You could get half of that with 1844 01:55:28,380 --> 01:55:29,070 web five? 1845 01:55:29,100 --> 01:55:31,440 I think John Spurlock has all the billion dollars in 1846 01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:33,660 podcasting. I don't know if someone has it. 1847 01:55:34,770 --> 01:55:36,480 It's only sold in John's basement. 1848 01:55:37,980 --> 01:55:42,300 Exactly. Oh, man. Hey, Nathan. Thank you so much, man. This is 1849 01:55:42,300 --> 01:55:44,550 great. You're a great board member to have on they have a 1850 01:55:44,550 --> 01:55:47,670 lot of a lot of cool stuff thank you for your contributions very 1851 01:55:47,670 --> 01:55:52,530 impressed. Me and it's and you know, I don't want to disparage 1852 01:55:52,530 --> 01:55:56,880 anybody was really it's really are a huge benefit to us. To the 1853 01:55:56,910 --> 01:56:00,030 to the community to the community. It's fantastic really 1854 01:56:00,030 --> 01:56:00,900 love having here 1855 01:56:00,930 --> 01:56:02,760 and thanks for bringing everybody Starbucks to the 1856 01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:04,590 border. And that was that was 1857 01:56:04,860 --> 01:56:07,500 really appreciate that next time. I'd like the the croissant 1858 01:56:07,500 --> 01:56:08,280 though. I'm one of those. 1859 01:56:09,300 --> 01:56:11,520 Sounds it cheese Danish, please. All right. Thank 1860 01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:13,530 you very much chat room for being with us. Thank you to all 1861 01:56:13,530 --> 01:56:19,110 the boosters, Nathan. Thank you. The place to be is steno.fm. 1862 01:56:19,710 --> 01:56:24,330 Yep. And and I put the your blog posts, which I think you posted. 1863 01:56:24,330 --> 01:56:27,450 Was that Trump today? The blog post? Yeah. Put that in the show 1864 01:56:27,450 --> 01:56:29,250 notes. So we're gonna take a look at that. And if you 1865 01:56:29,250 --> 01:56:33,090 wouldn't mind emailing me as soon as you can. A wallet to 1866 01:56:33,090 --> 01:56:35,820 lightning wallet or do you ever get Alby or something that 1867 01:56:36,060 --> 01:56:38,430 leads in G apt get? Get? I'll be out. Thank 1868 01:56:38,430 --> 01:56:40,530 you. That helps a lot when we put that right. And by the way, 1869 01:56:40,530 --> 01:56:46,500 people can boost him directly now. Nathan G. That's quite 1870 01:56:46,500 --> 01:56:50,340 handy. Dave. We need Adam had podcasts index.org and David 1871 01:56:50,340 --> 01:56:51,720 podcasts index.org. 1872 01:56:52,170 --> 01:56:55,260 That can make that happen. Really? Yes. Oh, that's 1873 01:56:55,260 --> 01:56:55,980 exciting. 1874 01:56:56,010 --> 01:56:59,130 That's the keys end result. All right. Well, 1875 01:56:59,130 --> 01:57:03,000 let's do it. I love it to just walk around so you'd like me out 1876 01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:03,210 of my 1877 01:57:03,660 --> 01:57:06,540 index? No, thanks to the Ellen URL, guys, but we just did it. 1878 01:57:07,710 --> 01:57:11,880 Exactly faster. All right. That's it. Everyone. Have a 1879 01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:14,430 great weekend. Dave. I love you, brother. Nathan, thank you so 1880 01:57:14,430 --> 01:57:17,490 much. We'll see you next Friday for the board meeting of 1881 01:57:17,490 --> 01:57:18,960 podcasting 2.0. 1882 01:57:33,750 --> 01:57:38,280 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1883 01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:47,280 index.org For more information by hammering meow