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Jan. 17, 2025

Episode 207: We've Got Weather!

Episode 207: We've Got Weather!

Episode 207: We've Got Weather!

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Podcasting 2.0

Podcasting 2.0 January 17th 2025 Episode 207: "We've Got Weather!"

Adam & Dave are joined by Sam Sethi of Truefans to discuss everything you can imagine

ShowNotes

We are LIT

Podsage Words of Wisdom

Sam Sethi Truefans

The Future is Hyper Local

Wallets update

From Oscar: LNAddress splits capability coming soon to Fountain! Hopefully within the next week or so

PWA vs Universal app

Secure RSS - Truefans

Next week: Podpingd

-------------------------------------

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Chapters

10:00 - DReb Scott is banging out the chapters!

Transcript
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Podcasting 2.0 for January 17, 2025, episode

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207.

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We've got weather!

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Oh, hello everybody.

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Shiver me timbers, it is very cold, even

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here in Texas.

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It is time once again for the board

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meeting of 2.0, the podcasting 2.0,

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that is.

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Everything going on with podcasting, what has been,

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what it is, and what is to come.

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We are the only boardroom that stacks sats

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for liquidity and love.

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I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the

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man who put the L in medium equals

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music L.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one and only Mr. Dave Jones!

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So, just to clarify.

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Please do, please do.

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We are not banned in the U.S.

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By the unanimous decision of the Supreme Court,

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our show is still, the board meeting is

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still fine.

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Yes, we are not, we've never been on

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the App Store, but we're still not banned,

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yes.

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Right, yes.

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We're good to go.

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You can't ban RSS.

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No, you can't, it just can't happen.

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It can't happen, they can ban apps, there

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it is, you build your audience somewhere and

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you take it with what it is.

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It's just what it is.

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I think we'll start something off new here

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today, Dave.

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Oh.

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Yes, I think we'll start.

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I think we need to start with a

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new category.

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Wait a second.

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Known as...

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We didn't have a meeting about this.

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No, we did not have a meeting.

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This is Podsage Words of Wisdom.

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Quiet, quiet, quiet, I'm doing it.

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Shh, don't ruin it.

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Do it again.

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Podsage Words of Wisdom.

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Sometimes, you code a thing and it works,

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but you don't know why it works.

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Sometimes, you code a thing and it works,

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and you know why it works, but you're

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wrong.

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This has been this week's Podsage Words of

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Wisdom.

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I don't know who this Podsage is, but

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I wholeheartedly agree.

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I think this is a beautiful new segment.

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I've read that.

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I'm like, wow, that's so deep.

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I think I may have had some...

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It's like, how many double negatives can you

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stack into the same...

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Work for me, brother.

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I've not done much software development myself, but

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I'm all in on this.

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That seems just about right.

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This came after an attempt to build some

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queuing into the Godcaster thing.

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At some point, your eyes just go crossed.

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It glaze over, I'm sure.

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Yeah, you're like, man, this is all just

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garbledygook.

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I don't know why.

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Then it starts working, and you're like...

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Cool.

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Cool.

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Back it up.

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Back it up.

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Save.

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Exit.

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We're good to go.

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It worked.

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You want to do that, but you're in

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your heart of hearts.

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You know that this is just wrong.

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This is a fake.

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This is a fake.

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You need to be posting more of these,

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because these are awesome.

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In fact, I smell a book.

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It could be a book.

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A calendar.

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A calendar.

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A daily calendar.

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Words of wisdom from PodSage in development.

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It's like those old SNL skits of the,

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what was it, Deep Thoughts.

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Yes, by Jack Handy.

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My favorite one was one day your son

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asked you, Dad, why is it raining?

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And you say, well, son, it's because God

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is crying.

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And he'll say, why is God crying?

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And you respond, it's probably because of something

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you did.

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Exactly.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Let's see.

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Before we bring in today's guest who is

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hanging on diligently, is there anything we need

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to talk about before we get started?

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Anything?

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I don't reckon.

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No, we can pull the host of Spotify

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Weekly Review right into it.

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Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome into the boardroom,

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the CEO of True Fans, co-host of

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The Power, Pod News Weekly Review, the one,

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the only, the inimitable, there it is, my

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favorite word, Sam Sethe.

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Wow, wow, wow.

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I'm going to frame that, clip that, and

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have that as my intro to any room

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I go into next.

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Hey, Sam, happy New Year.

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How are you doing?

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I'm good, brother, very good.

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And happy New Year to you both.

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Yeah, so the, I mean, right before the

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show, the Supreme Court TikTok ban, I mean,

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I think it's really, I think it's worth

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mentioning just because if it does go through

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and it is banned off, you know, app

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stores and that kind of thing in the

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U.S. and, I mean, I have my

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own thoughts about it, but I do, I

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mean, that could be a significant sort of

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ripple.

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Precedence, really, precedence.

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Well, you know, just avoiding the legal part

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of it, you know, the precedent part, which

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I think, you know, it like, it could

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ripple through pretty much all of the media

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landscape, including podcasting.

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Oh, yeah, all you have to do is

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say that you have connections to a country

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or a government that's on the list and

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that's it.

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That's it, you're done.

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And I do think other countries will follow

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suit if this goes through.

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I mean, I think the U.K. probably

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would too.

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Do you think so, Sam?

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No, I don't.

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Really?

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Yeah, I don't think they will.

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I think the way that it's been framed

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at the moment, I don't think it's going

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to get banned.

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I think it's going to be the 19th,

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it will shadow out maybe for a day.

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The investment from one of Trump's major partners

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or backers, he's in TikTok, I think it's

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a turn around.

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It's either going to be, look, a presidential

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executive order, day one, TikTok's back, hurrah, or

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it's going to just shadow out.

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The actual order doesn't say that it's banned.

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What it is is it's not allowed to

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be in the app stores anymore, so you

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can't download anymore.

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And if that's the case, TikTok have said

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themselves, then if we can't get more new

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users, we will take it off.

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So I suspect it'll be a day.

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Weirdly, it's the 19th, the day before the

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inauguration.

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I just find that timing really weird as

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well.

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Oh, that's very typical politics in America.

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I would have to say, I want to

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reiterate my stance on this, that TikTok does

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not track any more than Instagram or YouTube

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or any app in the app store, certainly

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if they're using Firebase.

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It's like these were bills that were put

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in by people who were heavily sponsored by

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Google and Amazon.

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And to me, it was just good old

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-fashioned, let's get rid of the competition.

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They're eating our lunch.

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They're taking billions of dollars away in revenue,

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particularly Amazon, actually, which is what people don't

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realize.

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The TikTok shop is wildly successful, wildly successful.

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And they're selling, and I just know a

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couple of the products, but they're selling products

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way under price.

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So you can get your Baofeng handheld 2

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-meter ham radio for $12, which is at

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least $3 cheaper than through Amazon.

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And I know that people who are doing

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TikTok videos with 8,000 followers within two

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weeks, selling these handheld ham radios made $10

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,000 in commission.

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That's some serious coin right there.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, you can say all you

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want about, oh, we'll just, you know, Red

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Note or, you know, maybe Musk will bring

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back Vine.

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It's not that easy to copy a service.

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Forget the algo.

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I don't think the algo is actually so

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difficult.

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What they do very well at is tagging

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the content.

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And they may have 100,000 anonymous Indians

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walking around or Chinese.

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Sorry, just putting the word in for the

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brothers.

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What's wrong with that?

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Well, this is why I say this, Sam.

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And, you know, that's really their magic is

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how they tag the content.

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The algo just gives you all the stuff

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you want, the stuff you're interested in.

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I don't think it's that spectacular.

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But Silicon Valley has time and again tried

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to copy successful formulas and the biggest companies

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with the most resources, Google being the number

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one, have failed.

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They always fail at it.

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There's something happens.

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There's some magic.

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It kicks in.

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It grabs hold.

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And you can't, like, get that lightning and

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put it in your own bottle.

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You know, it's just there's too many examples

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of that not working.

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Now, I've said, I think I said in

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the last board meeting, we need more short

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-form video.

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We need more chicks in bikinis with guns.

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This is what America's good at.

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The GDP has been helped by Taylor Swift

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and all this nonsense.

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You know, that's good for us.

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We need to be doing lots of stupid

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media.

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I'll be voting for this on the board.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm voting for that.

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We're having a board meeting.

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I'm voting for that, yeah.

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Babes in bikinis with guns, yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Of course.

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Of course.

266
00:10:00,870 --> 00:10:03,070
Well, I don't want to spend too much

267
00:10:03,070 --> 00:10:05,710
time on it, but my most cynical view

268
00:10:05,710 --> 00:10:11,010
of this is, so it's every number I've

269
00:10:11,010 --> 00:10:13,290
seen is ByteDance is currently at like a

270
00:10:13,290 --> 00:10:14,990
$300 billion valuation.

271
00:10:15,650 --> 00:10:15,750
Yeah.

272
00:10:16,090 --> 00:10:20,010
But the ban itself, the numbers I saw

273
00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:21,810
would knock it down to around $40 billion.

274
00:10:22,370 --> 00:10:24,850
That's the exact same price that Elon paid

275
00:10:24,850 --> 00:10:26,230
for Twitter.

276
00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:26,630
Yeah.

277
00:10:27,730 --> 00:10:30,810
This could literally be, this could let, Trump

278
00:10:30,810 --> 00:10:34,410
could let the ban go into effect, kill

279
00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:37,790
the valuation, and Elon could snatch it up

280
00:10:37,790 --> 00:10:40,850
and integrate TikTok directly into X.

281
00:10:41,110 --> 00:10:41,430
Boom.

282
00:10:41,890 --> 00:10:42,030
Yeah.

283
00:10:42,130 --> 00:10:45,170
Again, no guarantee of success.

284
00:10:45,330 --> 00:10:47,190
There's just no guarantee of success.

285
00:10:48,090 --> 00:10:51,130
And the executive orders, I mean, there's a

286
00:10:51,130 --> 00:10:53,210
lot more important things that we need executive

287
00:10:53,210 --> 00:10:54,030
orders for.

288
00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:56,250
Oh, yeah, for sure.

289
00:10:56,510 --> 00:10:59,410
And, you know, to override Congress with an

290
00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:01,590
executive order is a big deal.

291
00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:05,430
To override a Supreme Court opinion is a

292
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:06,110
big deal.

293
00:11:06,730 --> 00:11:08,050
You know, does he want to spend all

294
00:11:08,050 --> 00:11:10,830
that political capital right there, or does he

295
00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:15,550
want to blame it on Democrat representatives?

296
00:11:15,790 --> 00:11:16,830
You know, there's a lot of stuff he

297
00:11:16,830 --> 00:11:17,750
could do with it.

298
00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:20,770
For TikTok, just as a number that we

299
00:11:20,770 --> 00:11:23,610
should all understand, how much revenue do you

300
00:11:23,610 --> 00:11:26,330
think TikTok, what is the revenue share of

301
00:11:26,330 --> 00:11:27,570
the U.S. market for TikTok?

302
00:11:27,790 --> 00:11:28,630
What do you think that is?

303
00:11:30,190 --> 00:11:32,270
For the U.S. market specifically?

304
00:11:32,490 --> 00:11:32,990
Oh, I don't know.

305
00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:35,110
170 million?

306
00:11:35,270 --> 00:11:37,910
No, percentage of their overall revenue.

307
00:11:38,510 --> 00:11:38,750
Revenue.

308
00:11:39,010 --> 00:11:40,130
Oh, gosh.

309
00:11:40,270 --> 00:11:41,570
Probably 60 percent?

310
00:11:41,830 --> 00:11:42,270
20.

311
00:11:43,090 --> 00:11:43,650
20?

312
00:11:43,870 --> 00:11:44,690
20 percent.

313
00:11:44,990 --> 00:11:47,030
And the oil baron, my friend the oil

314
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:50,830
baron, TikTok has six floors in his building,

315
00:11:51,390 --> 00:11:53,550
and he says that as of last week,

316
00:11:53,650 --> 00:11:54,350
no one's there.

317
00:11:55,330 --> 00:11:57,070
So they may have already decided.

318
00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:58,470
They're like, you know, whatever.

319
00:11:58,770 --> 00:12:00,590
Okay, we don't need to be in America,

320
00:12:00,590 --> 00:12:03,250
which will solidify that it was never about

321
00:12:03,250 --> 00:12:08,590
tracking and passing American data onto the CCP.

322
00:12:08,850 --> 00:12:09,990
That was all nonsense.

323
00:12:10,610 --> 00:12:12,030
It's truly nonsense.

324
00:12:12,730 --> 00:12:15,250
The App Store is very particular about what

325
00:12:15,250 --> 00:12:17,250
you track and see what they do with

326
00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:17,650
Facebook.

327
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:21,350
They totally hose them on the advertising tracking.

328
00:12:21,470 --> 00:12:23,310
I'm not sure exactly what that technical piece

329
00:12:23,310 --> 00:12:23,630
is.

330
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:27,210
But it costs Facebook billions of dollars annually

331
00:12:27,210 --> 00:12:27,850
in revenue.

332
00:12:28,190 --> 00:12:31,250
And they don't let any app just track

333
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:31,970
you anywhere.

334
00:12:32,570 --> 00:12:35,510
I mean, actually, they do, but not more

335
00:12:35,510 --> 00:12:36,110
than the other.

336
00:12:36,230 --> 00:12:37,970
Everyone has an equal playing field.

337
00:12:38,070 --> 00:12:38,730
It's just nonsense.

338
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:41,770
And the competition will be gone, and that's

339
00:12:41,770 --> 00:12:43,930
20 percent that goes back to someone else.

340
00:12:45,310 --> 00:12:47,010
There is precedent for this.

341
00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:49,950
TikTok was banned in India a couple of

342
00:12:49,950 --> 00:12:50,370
years ago.

343
00:12:50,670 --> 00:12:51,650
By their own people?

344
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:52,830
The people doing the work?

345
00:12:52,830 --> 00:12:53,970
This is an outrage.

346
00:12:55,570 --> 00:12:58,970
Yeah, but that was because, you know, Modi

347
00:12:58,970 --> 00:13:00,710
fell out with Xi Jinping.

348
00:13:01,250 --> 00:13:02,090
Right, right.

349
00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:05,130
That now is coming back to India.

350
00:13:05,690 --> 00:13:08,350
So they've had a powwow meeting in January,

351
00:13:08,890 --> 00:13:11,910
shook hands, realized that the actual economic value

352
00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:14,350
of trading between the two countries is higher

353
00:13:14,350 --> 00:13:16,970
than the value of fighting over Nepal, which

354
00:13:16,970 --> 00:13:19,790
is where the idea was about going away.

355
00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:21,750
TikTok will go back there.

356
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:23,090
So if they ban it in America, they'll

357
00:13:23,090 --> 00:13:24,230
just go back to India, which is a

358
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:25,070
massive market anyway.

359
00:13:25,310 --> 00:13:26,610
But this is an interesting point.

360
00:13:28,110 --> 00:13:30,550
Trump could use it as a bargaining chip.

361
00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:31,330
He could use it.

362
00:13:31,470 --> 00:13:34,910
But, again, the issue is these products, they

363
00:13:34,910 --> 00:13:36,710
come in and, you know, it's all very

364
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:38,750
– we have certain – we have odd

365
00:13:38,750 --> 00:13:39,530
rules in America.

366
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:41,570
But if it's under a certain amount, it

367
00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:43,110
just kind of flies through customs.

368
00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:46,650
It flies through, and there's no tariffs, and

369
00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:47,430
they don't look at it.

370
00:13:47,490 --> 00:13:48,930
And so all this stuff under – I

371
00:13:48,930 --> 00:13:50,690
don't know what – it's something like $50

372
00:13:50,690 --> 00:13:51,510
or $100.

373
00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:54,690
Anything under that just shifts right through, and

374
00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:56,770
they're dropshipping this stuff, and it's coming in

375
00:13:56,770 --> 00:13:57,590
very quickly.

376
00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:01,310
And that's actually a problem, although we don't

377
00:14:01,310 --> 00:14:03,170
make any of this crap in America.

378
00:14:03,170 --> 00:14:05,390
And it is purely crap, all of it's

379
00:14:05,390 --> 00:14:05,690
crap.

380
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:08,450
That's our biggest problem in the United States.

381
00:14:08,530 --> 00:14:09,290
We buy crap.

382
00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:10,630
We're addicted to crap.

383
00:14:11,390 --> 00:14:12,570
Yeah, the iPhone, I agree.

384
00:14:15,810 --> 00:14:16,990
That's more than $100.

385
00:14:16,990 --> 00:14:21,470
Anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

386
00:14:22,690 --> 00:14:24,610
But, Sam, I am glad you are here,

387
00:14:24,670 --> 00:14:25,050
my friend.

388
00:14:25,170 --> 00:14:26,370
When is the last time we had you

389
00:14:26,370 --> 00:14:26,530
on?

390
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:28,190
It's been at least two years, maybe?

391
00:14:29,050 --> 00:14:30,890
No, thankfully, about a year.

392
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:33,370
But, no, I think at the beginning of

393
00:14:33,370 --> 00:14:34,270
last year, yeah.

394
00:14:35,590 --> 00:14:38,230
True Fans is, I find, a very exciting

395
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:41,970
project because it flows with something that I've

396
00:14:41,970 --> 00:14:42,790
been talking about.

397
00:14:43,230 --> 00:14:44,230
Obviously, I like it.

398
00:14:44,970 --> 00:14:48,510
You're doing something different than a typical podcast

399
00:14:48,510 --> 00:14:48,970
app.

400
00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:50,630
Trying.

401
00:14:51,230 --> 00:14:51,890
You're trying, yeah.

402
00:14:52,490 --> 00:14:55,430
The thing that I would like to hear

403
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:58,110
from you, just to get us started, do

404
00:14:58,110 --> 00:15:00,730
you have a positioning statement of what True

405
00:15:00,730 --> 00:15:01,590
Fans is?

406
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:03,550
Yeah, I do.

407
00:15:03,670 --> 00:15:08,090
It's RSS Marketplace to help creators monetize their

408
00:15:08,090 --> 00:15:10,010
content and connect with their fans.

409
00:15:10,630 --> 00:15:11,170
Hmm.

410
00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:14,870
RSS Marketplace, I like that.

411
00:15:16,740 --> 00:15:19,960
I don't know if, as you would say,

412
00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:23,520
Joe Punter would know exactly what an RSS

413
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,600
Marketplace is.

414
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,320
No, and I probably haven't got that messaging

415
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:27,760
right.

416
00:15:27,980 --> 00:15:29,920
But you know where I am in the

417
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:31,820
cycle right now, which is talking to VCs.

418
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,680
And that's the message that I'm resonating with

419
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,480
them because I have to play VC bingo,

420
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:38,980
right?

421
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,020
So Marketplace is the word they want to

422
00:15:42,020 --> 00:15:42,440
hear.

423
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:45,780
Bitcoin's another word they want to hear.

424
00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:46,220
Oh, they do.

425
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:47,860
They want to hear Bitcoin?

426
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,700
They like that?

427
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,220
They like that, the VC guys?

428
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,500
Suddenly Trump, Elon Musk, and everyone else is

429
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:54,540
talking about it.

430
00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:57,220
You're suddenly hearing a lot of mainstream media,

431
00:15:57,300 --> 00:15:59,040
even made the 10 o'clock news here

432
00:15:59,040 --> 00:15:59,560
in the UK.

433
00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:02,200
So now everyone's going, oh, yeah, you know

434
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,480
that thing we didn't like a couple of

435
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:03,880
years ago?

436
00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:04,720
Now we like it.

437
00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:05,920
We love it now, yeah.

438
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,600
Because when I think of TrueFans and marketing

439
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,800
position, and Marketplace is a good word, it

440
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,460
feels to me like if you could tell

441
00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:20,100
people that this is where you can build

442
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:20,940
your fan base.

443
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,580
I mean, it's in the name already, right?

444
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,160
TrueFans has a bit of that OnlyFans vibe

445
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,920
to it, which that just sticks in the

446
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:29,420
back of your head without you even really

447
00:16:29,420 --> 00:16:29,980
knowing it.

448
00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:33,560
But that's kind of what you're doing because

449
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:39,780
you have, besides podcast feeds, you have all

450
00:16:39,780 --> 00:16:42,900
kinds of extra bits and bobs you've built

451
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:43,580
around it.

452
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:45,020
Can you just go through the list?

453
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:46,320
Yes.

454
00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:49,000
I mean, the ones that are related directly

455
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,720
to podcasting, pod rolls, publisher feeds, but we

456
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:52,600
added blogging.

457
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:59,200
We added events, ticketing, secure RSS, audio books,

458
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:00,320
music.

459
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,359
We're talking to a film company at the

460
00:17:03,359 --> 00:17:03,700
moment.

461
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:09,000
Your idea that you came with about three

462
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,440
or four weeks before Christmas about the Rachel

463
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:17,400
Maddow portal, we were moving slowly towards that

464
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,520
by adding all these other things around it.

465
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:22,540
It's the original thing that Mike Homer at

466
00:17:22,540 --> 00:17:25,460
Netscape created, which was the Netscape portal using

467
00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:27,000
RSS as the means for delivery.

468
00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:28,320
I remember it well, yeah.

469
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,720
So we're going full circle, and I think

470
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,680
that that's the bit that we're trying to

471
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:33,180
get to.

472
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,500
And I think if we can connect all

473
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:39,380
the parts, create customized domains, allow a bit

474
00:17:39,380 --> 00:17:43,020
more creator customization of the platform, we could,

475
00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:45,120
and I'm saying with a big question mark,

476
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,380
create portals for creators that drive traffic from

477
00:17:50,380 --> 00:17:53,220
their fan base to their page.

478
00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:55,780
And it doesn't, as you said, look like

479
00:17:55,780 --> 00:17:56,940
true fans on every page.

480
00:17:56,940 --> 00:17:59,920
I look, that's probably six months out, but

481
00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:01,960
that's the direction I think we're heading in

482
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:02,260
anyway.

483
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:02,900
Yeah.

484
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,200
Instinctively, that feels right to me.

485
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:06,620
Yeah.

486
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,260
The interesting thing, one of the reasons I

487
00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:12,940
wanted to get you in the boardroom quick,

488
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,060
Sam, is because- Because it's dry January

489
00:18:17,060 --> 00:18:19,020
and he's not drinking, so he would actually

490
00:18:19,020 --> 00:18:19,680
be useful.

491
00:18:20,420 --> 00:18:20,860
Yes.

492
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,640
We've got 12 days left to get good

493
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:26,280
stuff out of Sam.

494
00:18:27,260 --> 00:18:30,280
Like, you know, James is the radio futurologist,

495
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:33,020
but you're like the radio, like I really

496
00:18:33,020 --> 00:18:34,840
did it recently-ologist.

497
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:40,440
You're probably the only person I know that

498
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,920
has this convergence of like recent experience running

499
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,160
a hyper-local radio station that was heavy

500
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:49,680
in podcast distribution and now you're running a

501
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:50,520
podcast app.

502
00:18:50,620 --> 00:18:54,380
I mean, you've seen every side of this

503
00:18:54,380 --> 00:18:58,800
thing with the recent radio experience sort of

504
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,120
as icing on top.

505
00:19:01,180 --> 00:19:03,240
And I think the thing that like, as

506
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,440
I'm hearing you talk and as we've been

507
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,600
talking the last few weeks and then when

508
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:09,460
we started the Godcaster stuff, it's sort of

509
00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:12,620
like, it's kind of like crystallized a lot

510
00:19:12,620 --> 00:19:17,540
of stuff in my head where the issue

511
00:19:17,540 --> 00:19:19,740
with, and I think this is related to

512
00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:22,100
what Adam was talking about with the Rachel

513
00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:26,780
Maddow page, is that the problem, one of

514
00:19:26,780 --> 00:19:29,040
the problems with podcasting is that I think

515
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,020
in the mind of the public, of people

516
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:32,400
who are aware of it, it just seems

517
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,140
like a big cloud of content.

518
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,780
It doesn't seem like, when you say radio

519
00:19:38,780 --> 00:19:43,600
or television, people know you get a, you

520
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,940
form a distinct picture in your head.

521
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,460
When you say podcasting, you don't, it just

522
00:19:49,460 --> 00:19:54,240
seems sort of like a fog of all

523
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,660
this content that you have to go search

524
00:19:57,660 --> 00:19:58,540
out somewhere.

525
00:19:58,940 --> 00:20:01,480
And while the statement, wherever you get your

526
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,300
podcast is a powerful statement because of what

527
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:05,020
it means.

528
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,260
It means it's distributed and decentralized.

529
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:14,640
It also means it's not one particular thing

530
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:16,100
in the way that radio is.

531
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:20,260
And so, you know, like if we, I

532
00:20:20,260 --> 00:20:24,500
feel like this convergence of podcast and radio,

533
00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:27,560
whether you can say like radio transitioning to

534
00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:32,000
podcasting and podcasting trying to adopt what's good

535
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,240
about radio, to me that, I think you

536
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:36,980
could meet in the middle with something that's

537
00:20:36,980 --> 00:20:38,080
a little more distinct.

538
00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:39,900
Yeah.

539
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:43,800
Look, just as a quick recap, I mean,

540
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:46,160
River Radio was 40 live shows, one hour

541
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,320
long every week for two years.

542
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:52,460
They were then broadcast over FM, DAB, Alexa,

543
00:20:52,620 --> 00:20:54,420
web, mobile, but they were then turned into

544
00:20:54,420 --> 00:20:58,480
a podcast via Wooshka taking the Icecast server

545
00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:59,420
that we had to feed.

546
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:00,820
And that all worked very well.

547
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:01,660
We were just too early.

548
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:04,420
People didn't get what hyperlocal meant and they

549
00:21:04,420 --> 00:21:06,020
didn't understand what we were trying to achieve.

550
00:21:06,460 --> 00:21:07,980
We couldn't get the funding for it.

551
00:21:08,020 --> 00:21:09,780
And, you know, I couldn't sustain it.

552
00:21:10,780 --> 00:21:13,560
But what I think with the closure, you

553
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:15,280
know, that you talked about last week of

554
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,860
local radio in the UK, I think there

555
00:21:18,860 --> 00:21:20,400
are a lot of people looking for, where

556
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:21,700
do I put my content?

557
00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:24,420
And I was trying to explain that the

558
00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:26,980
separation of content from delivery is what people

559
00:21:26,980 --> 00:21:28,080
have to get in their heads.

560
00:21:28,580 --> 00:21:30,320
The content could be live or it could

561
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:30,960
be on demand.

562
00:21:31,060 --> 00:21:31,700
That's irrelevant.

563
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,000
The distribution could be DAB, you know, old

564
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,480
transmitters, very expensive, or it could be, you

565
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,900
know, through an Alexa.

566
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,660
But also now with Podcasting 2.0, it

567
00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:45,240
can be lit.

568
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,540
And I think that's where people need to

569
00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:49,860
understand what we're trying to do here with

570
00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:52,280
Podcasting 2.0. And we need to get

571
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,580
case studies out there pretty quickly for people

572
00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:55,700
to then jump on board.

573
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,140
Well, yeah, like live doesn't have to be

574
00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:02,840
live, you know, it's kind of a stupid

575
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,160
thing to say, but I mean, a lot

576
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,080
of live radio is not actually live.

577
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,040
Most of it is not anymore.

578
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:10,420
Yeah.

579
00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:14,880
But you still have this thing that people

580
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,040
assume is, you still have the notion of

581
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:24,160
a live broadcast or a feed of information

582
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,400
that is coming to you.

583
00:22:25,460 --> 00:22:27,500
Like you just, you have the concept of

584
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:28,220
tuning in.

585
00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:29,880
Maybe that's a good way to say it.

586
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,260
You tune into the radio.

587
00:22:31,860 --> 00:22:34,840
You don't really, while there's good things, while

588
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,340
there's great things about so-called on demand,

589
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:42,100
if everything is on demand, it becomes just

590
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,760
sort of like this fog of content.

591
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,380
And you don't, I think the powerful thing

592
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:53,540
about radio is that you have this thing

593
00:22:53,540 --> 00:22:54,540
that you go to.

594
00:22:54,940 --> 00:22:58,940
And like that requires, I think it requires

595
00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:02,440
making opinions for the platforms, like true fans,

596
00:23:03,060 --> 00:23:05,840
like you would say, okay, we're going to

597
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,620
host these particular shows or these particular podcasts

598
00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:13,600
because they sort of have the qualities that

599
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:14,160
we want.

600
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,060
I mean, like they have live streams.

601
00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:17,940
We're going to choose to, we may have

602
00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:20,300
other stuff, but we're going to emphasize these

603
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:24,500
because they are like, they create the experience

604
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:26,100
we want our customers to have.

605
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,340
Maybe, is that fair?

606
00:23:28,020 --> 00:23:28,120
Yeah.

607
00:23:28,260 --> 00:23:29,720
I mean, we just don't have enough of

608
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,880
them yet to create a landing page.

609
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,580
But when we do, we will focus on

610
00:23:34,580 --> 00:23:34,740
it.

611
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,400
But yeah, I think people will understand very

612
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,740
quickly that there's a schedule around a podcast

613
00:23:41,740 --> 00:23:43,600
2.0 radio station.

614
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,140
You know, that's not a really catchy name,

615
00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:48,840
but the idea is there that people will

616
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:49,360
have a schedule.

617
00:23:49,540 --> 00:23:51,580
You will have a schedule of shows that

618
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:52,060
go out.

619
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,040
I will be able to see that schedule

620
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,260
and I'll be able to dip in and

621
00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:58,040
dip out of your stream, which is live

622
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,460
24 seven or whatever you have it live

623
00:24:00,460 --> 00:24:00,800
for.

624
00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:05,280
Those shows may not be actually broadcast as

625
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:05,740
in live.

626
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,460
They may be recorded shows that you are

627
00:24:07,460 --> 00:24:10,400
pushing through in the schedule time slot.

628
00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:12,720
I'm going to give you a free resource,

629
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:13,240
Sam.

630
00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:18,120
For over 15 years, No Agenda has had

631
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:22,300
this live stream and it has a IRC

632
00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:25,000
based chat room, which has been up for

633
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,180
just about as long.

634
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,620
And every single day there's a schedule, there's

635
00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:33,660
a schedule manager, Sir Bemrose.

636
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,680
There are live shows.

637
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,760
There is enormous interaction, boosting interaction.

638
00:24:41,300 --> 00:24:44,580
There's all kinds of boost bots and leaderboards

639
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,460
and all kinds of things.

640
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,180
And it's a relatively small community, but there

641
00:24:50,180 --> 00:24:54,920
are at least several live shows per day.

642
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,780
And there's handovers like on Sunday, as an

643
00:24:58,780 --> 00:24:59,180
example.

644
00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:02,480
From nine to 11 is this bluegrass show.

645
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,540
And then the bluegrass show hands over to

646
00:25:05,540 --> 00:25:07,180
the rock and roll pre-show and the

647
00:25:07,180 --> 00:25:08,900
rock and roll pre-show hands over to

648
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:09,980
the No Agenda show.

649
00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:12,140
And the No Agenda show hands over to

650
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:15,640
whatever is next, which for instance, last week

651
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,980
was Satellite Skirmish, which was a live music

652
00:25:18,980 --> 00:25:22,040
bonanza, you know, Boobery and all these crazy

653
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,200
cats are putting that together.

654
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:28,060
And if you could take that community, which

655
00:25:28,060 --> 00:25:30,060
is just sitting there in an IRC chat,

656
00:25:30,380 --> 00:25:32,280
and you could give them an entirely new

657
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,760
interface, all the pieces are there.

658
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,660
And I'm sure that they'll be more than

659
00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:39,860
willing to work with you on building something

660
00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:42,040
and really building out what you have because

661
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,100
they also, you know, they have merch, they

662
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:46,460
have concerts that they do.

663
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,760
So ticket, all this stuff, it's all there.

664
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,500
And it's just been sitting there for over

665
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:51,000
a decade.

666
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,440
I'm totally open to it.

667
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:55,640
I mean, you know, we build really fast.

668
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,360
We take any idea on board and we

669
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:58,400
try and develop it.

670
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,080
So what you've got there is a radio

671
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:02,760
station, right?

672
00:26:02,980 --> 00:26:03,080
Exactly.

673
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,160
You and I would know that.

674
00:26:05,340 --> 00:26:07,900
The handover, we were all taught how to

675
00:26:07,900 --> 00:26:10,340
hand over to the next presenter, there'd be

676
00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:11,880
a jingle, maybe there was a news at

677
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,960
the top of the hour, whatever.

678
00:26:13,660 --> 00:26:15,040
But we all know how to do it,

679
00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:16,260
or who've been in radio.

680
00:26:16,620 --> 00:26:18,200
That's all you've got there now, which is

681
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:18,440
brilliant.

682
00:26:19,700 --> 00:26:24,440
Even on Fridays, I think it's two good

683
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,120
old boys, they're live, they stop at around

684
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,040
noon-ish.

685
00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:29,920
You know, so we're not big on top

686
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,760
of the hours and hitting the news.

687
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,700
But then when they're done, they disconnect.

688
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:37,820
And if I'm not ready, which I usually

689
00:26:37,820 --> 00:26:41,600
am not, then some tracks start to play,

690
00:26:42,260 --> 00:26:43,560
value for value tracks.

691
00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:47,400
And then I punch in around 12.20.

692
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:50,500
And then after we're done, Oisín Berga comes

693
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:51,800
in with Mutton & Mead music.

694
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,800
I mean, it is exactly what you're talking

695
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:55,180
about.

696
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,360
And the beauty of it is, this would

697
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:02,600
be a great way to get chat working,

698
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,760
because they're already there.

699
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,760
It's IRC-based, and there's a lot of

700
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,240
different ways you can incorporate that.

701
00:27:10,540 --> 00:27:13,200
It's been so logical to me, and I'm

702
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:13,920
amazed by it.

703
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,680
I'm amazed that we have these handovers, that

704
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,600
Darren disconnects, I reconnect.

705
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,660
I mean, it's really, every single Thursday and

706
00:27:23,660 --> 00:27:26,280
Sunday, I'm amazed at how awesome it really

707
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:26,680
is.

708
00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:28,300
I've never even met Darren.

709
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,740
You know, he's in Chicago somewhere.

710
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:35,900
And it's a really beautiful, beautiful ecosystem, which

711
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,040
is completely run by the community itself.

712
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:41,520
Yeah, I mean, look, we added a feature.

713
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,360
Look, we add too many features, but we

714
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:46,500
added a feature called Co-Listen, which was,

715
00:27:46,660 --> 00:27:48,860
as you listen to this show, and if

716
00:27:48,860 --> 00:27:51,320
anyone else was on True Fans listening, and

717
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,480
I was a follower, so we followed each

718
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,440
other as a social model, then your avatar

719
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,320
and my avatar would appear on the episode

720
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,620
page, so that I know that you're there.

721
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,080
So that was like a step one of

722
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,800
trying to make people aware that other people

723
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,480
were listening at the same time with them.

724
00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:08,960
We need to develop that much further, and

725
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,520
that moves forward towards XMPP-based chat, fully

726
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:14,980
built in.

727
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:16,560
But, you know, again, that's just on the

728
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:16,760
roadmap.

729
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,720
We haven't got it yet.

730
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,540
I don't think it's really about, like, when

731
00:28:22,540 --> 00:28:23,920
you talk about radio, I don't really think

732
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,040
it's about saving the tech of radio, because,

733
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,540
I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I think

734
00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:34,340
a lot of stations, radio stations wouldn't, they

735
00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:36,540
would like to not have to run, you

736
00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:38,220
know, broadcast hours and that kind of thing,

737
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,060
but it's about saving the idea of what

738
00:28:42,060 --> 00:28:46,180
a station is as an independent sort of,

739
00:28:46,260 --> 00:28:47,360
like, distribution funnel.

740
00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:48,720
But they already gave that up.

741
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,260
They gave it up when they dropped local

742
00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:50,840
programming.

743
00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:52,360
They've given up what it is to be

744
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:52,900
a station.

745
00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:58,960
Most broadcast organizations with transmitters are now just

746
00:28:58,960 --> 00:28:59,920
distribution.

747
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:01,380
That's what I'm saying.

748
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,280
Like Sam's sort of concept of River Radio,

749
00:29:06,380 --> 00:29:07,220
I think he's right.

750
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,000
I think he was too early, because unlike

751
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,440
newspaper, local newspaper.

752
00:29:14,980 --> 00:29:17,380
Which are also falling quickly.

753
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:19,520
Well, I mean, they're gone.

754
00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:21,200
I mean, they're basically just gone.

755
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,080
And the only ones left are the national

756
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:25,540
newspapers.

757
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:31,580
The local newspapers got, the internet came on

758
00:29:31,580 --> 00:29:36,060
board, came online, and we lost local newspapers

759
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:38,760
before people really even understood what was happening.

760
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:40,580
It was so fast.

761
00:29:41,100 --> 00:29:43,120
And you turn around and you're like, oh,

762
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:43,460
wow.

763
00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:45,200
I mean, you know, I've told that story

764
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:45,580
before.

765
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,100
The Birmingham News built a gigantic, millions of

766
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:50,060
dollar facility.

767
00:29:50,340 --> 00:29:50,760
Yeah.

768
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:53,080
You know, in like 1995.

769
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,860
Neumann Mike's, yeah.

770
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,100
The whole thing.

771
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,140
And I mean, like within three years, they

772
00:29:58,140 --> 00:29:59,740
were out of that building and it had

773
00:29:59,740 --> 00:30:01,580
to sell it to an insurance company.

774
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:01,920
Yeah.

775
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,560
Because they were dead.

776
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,560
And so, like, it happened so fast.

777
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,480
But the radio thing has not, people say

778
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:10,340
radio is dying.

779
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:13,360
But if that's true, then it's been this

780
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:19,820
sort of slow, like, very glacial decline for

781
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:21,320
many, many years.

782
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:23,720
And so we've got all this, like we

783
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,400
can watch it happening and like adjust to

784
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,620
what is happening.

785
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:31,200
And so if there's a, you know, like

786
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,100
saving the idea of a station, I don't

787
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:34,860
think the idea of a station is necessarily

788
00:30:34,860 --> 00:30:35,420
dead.

789
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,400
Because like river, like the river radio concept

790
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,200
to me, that is, it's almost like you

791
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,360
could spin that around.

792
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,960
Sam, you were running, you were running the

793
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,820
radio station and then chopping up those things

794
00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:51,740
into podcasts.

795
00:30:51,940 --> 00:30:54,480
You could almost do it in reverse, run

796
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,720
the podcast and then chop in, and then

797
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,000
synthesize it into a radio station, into a

798
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:00,440
podcast.

799
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,640
Yeah, it could work both ways.

800
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:02,560
Yeah, absolutely.

801
00:31:02,860 --> 00:31:05,260
Well, I'm just saying, Sam, there's a community

802
00:31:05,260 --> 00:31:05,820
there.

803
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:08,580
And it's, particularly if you're raising money and

804
00:31:08,580 --> 00:31:11,060
you can show an active community actually living

805
00:31:11,060 --> 00:31:14,420
out your dream and who are self-starters,

806
00:31:14,900 --> 00:31:15,920
they're nut jobs.

807
00:31:16,940 --> 00:31:18,520
And I say that with a lot of

808
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,180
love in my heart.

809
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,180
They do crazy things.

810
00:31:21,300 --> 00:31:22,960
They are not afraid to experiment.

811
00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:25,880
They're just sitting there waiting for you to

812
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,480
help them, man.

813
00:31:26,540 --> 00:31:29,940
The hardest thing for newcomers is understanding how

814
00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:31,180
to register for IRC.

815
00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:33,700
That's the hardest part of it.

816
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,440
But on any given Thursday or Sunday, we're

817
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,060
doing no agenda.

818
00:31:37,180 --> 00:31:39,600
There's thousands of people listening to the live

819
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:39,860
stream.

820
00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:40,420
Thousands.

821
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:42,820
Thousands.

822
00:31:43,580 --> 00:31:45,040
I'll ping you after, Adam.

823
00:31:45,140 --> 00:31:45,620
I promise.

824
00:31:45,940 --> 00:31:48,720
Yeah, no, hey, and I'm not the guy

825
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:49,240
running it.

826
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,280
I can just point you in the right

827
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:50,500
direction.

828
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:51,440
No, exactly.

829
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,300
That's what I'm saying.

830
00:31:52,460 --> 00:31:53,860
To give me the right lead.

831
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:54,660
For sure.

832
00:31:56,380 --> 00:32:00,900
Yeah, I see, I see, we got a

833
00:32:00,900 --> 00:32:06,540
local weather guy, James Spann, who, I think

834
00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:10,320
he does radio weather for other markets as

835
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:10,580
well.

836
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,020
But he's based here.

837
00:32:12,220 --> 00:32:15,240
He's on the, does weather on the television

838
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:15,700
here.

839
00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:19,220
And he's really sort of done this hyper

840
00:32:19,220 --> 00:32:23,620
-local thing so well because they do a

841
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:24,300
podcast.

842
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:31,960
He does two, two forecasts each day, one

843
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,000
in the morning at like 5.30 a

844
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,520
.m. and another one at like 3 o

845
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,960
'clock p.m. And it's all based on

846
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,340
just the weather in Alabama.

847
00:32:41,300 --> 00:32:44,480
And like it's, he still has this radio

848
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:45,580
and television presence.

849
00:32:46,220 --> 00:32:50,920
But it's, it's really his sort of hyper

850
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,320
-local brand.

851
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:55,080
And it's so different than like the algo

852
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:55,680
chasers.

853
00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:59,100
You see, like that term you used, Adam,

854
00:32:59,620 --> 00:33:02,340
you still see, if you go on TikTok,

855
00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:04,920
we have a winter storm.

856
00:33:05,420 --> 00:33:08,780
We have some weather coming up probably Tuesday

857
00:33:08,780 --> 00:33:09,440
of next week.

858
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:11,020
Breaking news, they've got weather.

859
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:14,920
Yeah, you know, snow is a big deal

860
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:15,380
in Alabama.

861
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:16,380
It shuts everything down.

862
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:18,760
It's a big deal in Texas if they

863
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,120
get snow.

864
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:20,640
Yes, exactly.

865
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,260
And so we've got something coming through probably

866
00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:24,080
Tuesday or Wednesday.

867
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,940
And every time this happens, the Twitter TikTok

868
00:33:28,940 --> 00:33:32,940
people just start going nuts, wanting to do

869
00:33:32,940 --> 00:33:33,600
click bait.

870
00:33:33,780 --> 00:33:36,160
The Southeast is going to be shut down.

871
00:33:36,260 --> 00:33:37,520
It's going to be, you know, not as

872
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,240
they just go nuts trying to get clicks.

873
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:43,180
And, and then, you know, there you have

874
00:33:43,180 --> 00:33:45,460
James Spann saying, hey, hold on, that's not

875
00:33:45,460 --> 00:33:45,860
accurate.

876
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,240
You know, here's the actual models.

877
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,120
Here's what we know.

878
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,120
And it's like this, this calm, you know,

879
00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:55,200
explanation of what the actual data looks like.

880
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,660
And we don't know this and we don't

881
00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:56,960
know that.

882
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,540
And it's, it's like, for that reason, he's

883
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:03,720
become this trusted voice here in Alabama.

884
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,840
I mean, everybody listens to this guy and

885
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,100
nobody pays attention to any of the TikTok

886
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:10,159
weather nonsense.

887
00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:13,699
And that to me, that's like, that's using

888
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:18,659
the power of like a radio, um, presence

889
00:34:18,659 --> 00:34:21,940
or a trusted voice, but then taking it

890
00:34:21,940 --> 00:34:25,280
over and just plugging it in, uh, to

891
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,520
the, to the podcast world and digital.

892
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,500
Uh, I just see there's just so much

893
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:34,340
that I think people just, they've, they've written

894
00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:36,040
off a lot of people written off radio,

895
00:34:37,020 --> 00:34:39,940
but if we don't stop and watch, uh,

896
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,520
I think we're really going to regret that.

897
00:34:42,780 --> 00:34:44,360
And I'm talking about when I say we,

898
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,920
I mean, people in podcast tech also podcasters

899
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:49,580
themselves.

900
00:34:50,260 --> 00:34:52,300
I think we're really going to have to

901
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:55,239
pay some attention to radio and, and figure

902
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:56,760
out what they were doing, right.

903
00:34:56,820 --> 00:35:00,600
Because otherwise, um, you know, we're going to

904
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,060
turn around radio and broadcast televisions, perhaps like

905
00:35:05,060 --> 00:35:07,780
it's perhaps the last industry that's not fully

906
00:35:07,780 --> 00:35:09,140
captured by Silicon Valley.

907
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,340
Those two industries are good point.

908
00:35:12,020 --> 00:35:14,840
We just can't see that ground to the

909
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,440
major platforms who are then going to turn

910
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,240
around and dictate financial terms and content terms

911
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:22,140
based on their own financial needs.

912
00:35:22,340 --> 00:35:23,560
You know, Sam, you and you and James

913
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,020
talked about this on the show on your

914
00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:27,580
show, Spotify with the music podcast.

915
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,260
They're like, we don't care if you have,

916
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,440
if it's your own music, if you have

917
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,740
a license for it, you can't put it

918
00:35:33,740 --> 00:35:35,200
in a podcast or we're going to take

919
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,060
it down off our platform.

920
00:35:36,340 --> 00:35:38,500
And that's purely just because they don't want

921
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:40,420
you to compete with the spot, with their

922
00:35:40,420 --> 00:35:41,720
Spotify music service.

923
00:35:42,620 --> 00:35:43,000
Completely.

924
00:35:43,420 --> 00:35:43,980
Yeah.

925
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,320
But I'd say a couple of things.

926
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:46,600
Okay.

927
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,320
So I'm helping you.

928
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,340
We need to boost scram live just before

929
00:35:50,340 --> 00:35:50,740
Christmas.

930
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:53,660
He met up with Mike Hamilton from a

931
00:35:53,660 --> 00:35:57,820
rogue network and my James connecting me with

932
00:35:57,820 --> 00:36:00,500
him and I'm helping him put a live

933
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:01,120
server together.

934
00:36:01,340 --> 00:36:03,740
Now we went to rss.com.

935
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,040
We went, we spoke to Alberto.

936
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,280
Um, they've got all of the lit support

937
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,460
built into RSS.

938
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,780
But they haven't got an HLS server and

939
00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:15,100
that's a little bit frustrating.

940
00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:16,640
So we're having to find a third party

941
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,460
to get that put the URL in and

942
00:36:19,460 --> 00:36:20,380
then make it all work.

943
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,280
Um, you look at, uh, Russell Harrell, he's

944
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:25,280
got his own radio station.

945
00:36:25,420 --> 00:36:28,180
He's got a hosting company pod too, but

946
00:36:28,180 --> 00:36:30,640
they broadcast radio station over the web, but

947
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:31,460
not over HLS.

948
00:36:31,580 --> 00:36:32,340
They don't do it live.

949
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:34,360
I'm trying to get him to put an

950
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,240
HLS server in.

951
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:36,740
We haven't seen.

952
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:38,520
Is HLS necessary?

953
00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:41,440
I'm not, I'm not making the connection.

954
00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:44,200
no, you need a server.

955
00:36:44,340 --> 00:36:46,080
You can have a shout cast, ice cast

956
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:46,600
HLS.

957
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,620
It doesn't really matter which one you choose.

958
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:50,820
Um, you need something if you want to

959
00:36:50,820 --> 00:36:53,820
put lit live, um, to broadcast with.

960
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:54,060
Right.

961
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,360
And so, um, we're just trying to find

962
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,560
what I would, I was hoping for was,

963
00:36:59,580 --> 00:37:01,700
uh, cause blueberry talked about it for a

964
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:02,020
little while.

965
00:37:02,060 --> 00:37:05,000
Todd about having time sharing on an HLS

966
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,740
server that they would have, uh, RSS.com

967
00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:09,980
after the, the Mexico event last year or

968
00:37:09,980 --> 00:37:11,200
the year before said they were going to

969
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,700
go and have an HLS service for their

970
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:15,920
customer base where you would pay for a

971
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,480
premium to pay and go live.

972
00:37:18,620 --> 00:37:20,040
And I think the problem is none of

973
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:20,620
that's happened.

974
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:21,000
Right.

975
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:24,080
And this week sub stack of announced, they're

976
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,920
bringing out their live capability.

977
00:37:26,580 --> 00:37:28,720
James and I are guessing, but with a

978
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,280
strong hint that Spotify having got events tickets

979
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:33,820
and had green room.

980
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,440
Well then go to live.

981
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,560
That's the next logical step for them to

982
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,180
go and put, uh, Oh, you want to

983
00:37:39,180 --> 00:37:41,140
go and see, um, Taylor Swift.

984
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:42,360
Oh, tickets are all sold out.

985
00:37:42,420 --> 00:37:42,860
Don't worry.

986
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,420
Come to Spotify, get a ticket, watch it

987
00:37:45,420 --> 00:37:46,400
through our platform.

988
00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:48,260
Is the HLS.

989
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,100
Is that necessary because of video?

990
00:37:51,140 --> 00:37:52,040
Only if you want video.

991
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:52,220
Yeah.

992
00:37:52,220 --> 00:37:52,400
Yeah.

993
00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:52,940
So, okay.

994
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:54,780
Because see, see, I think when we're talking,

995
00:37:55,180 --> 00:37:56,800
because you know, you, I think we have

996
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,020
to be careful, um, because I use ice

997
00:38:00,020 --> 00:38:03,060
cast, uh, everywhere and it works just fine.

998
00:38:03,340 --> 00:38:06,080
And it's, uh, and the complexity of video

999
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,000
is enormous.

1000
00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:10,540
HLS is good for audio as well.

1001
00:38:10,540 --> 00:38:12,000
And the BBC use it.

1002
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:14,300
And one of the values in using HLS

1003
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:16,620
is you can rewind live shows.

1004
00:38:16,740 --> 00:38:18,440
So if I wanted to go back now,

1005
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,760
if you were using HLS and listen to

1006
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,740
what David just said 10 minutes ago, I

1007
00:38:22,740 --> 00:38:25,880
can rewind the live stream, listen to it

1008
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,000
and then go and catch up to the

1009
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,540
show in live as well.

1010
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:30,900
Okay.

1011
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:33,820
Well, I can tell you what's working for

1012
00:38:33,820 --> 00:38:34,020
me.

1013
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,320
Uh, I started a hyper local radio station.

1014
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,260
We live in Fredericksburg, Texas, 12,000 people.

1015
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:42,220
It's called hello, Fred, hello, Fred.

1016
00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:42,520
Dot.

1017
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:42,800
Fm.

1018
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,980
And I've chosen in this case to, to

1019
00:38:45,980 --> 00:38:47,400
compete with Caleb.

1020
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:52,480
Uh, Caleb is the largest Christian contemporary Christian

1021
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,180
music, uh, radio station.

1022
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:56,040
They have radio stations everywhere and they have

1023
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:56,600
a live stream.

1024
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,400
And I don't know the exact numbers, but

1025
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,220
I'm pretty sure most people listen to it

1026
00:39:00,220 --> 00:39:01,020
on the live stream.

1027
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,840
Uh, but older demographic, which they also, which

1028
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,520
I definitely speak to, I'm sure still listen

1029
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,100
to the radio.

1030
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,280
And so I just play music.

1031
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,520
I have, you know, $300 piece of software.

1032
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,520
It's what every radio station uses and I

1033
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,260
schedule it.

1034
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,320
And now luckily I understand these things.

1035
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,860
So I had a relatively short ramp up

1036
00:39:20,860 --> 00:39:22,020
to getting it all running.

1037
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,840
And in it, I promote podcasts that are

1038
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,240
local and it's been working so well.

1039
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,060
Sam, that I just got an email from

1040
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:32,460
one of the local high schools.

1041
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,080
They're like, Hey, uh, we want to start

1042
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,040
some podcasts here for our students.

1043
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:40,120
Can we get on your platform?

1044
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:41,900
And that's their words that they use.

1045
00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:44,800
And so I'm like, yeah, and I will

1046
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,700
promote their podcasts and point people back to

1047
00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:48,900
hello.

1048
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:49,180
Fred.

1049
00:39:49,380 --> 00:39:49,480
Dot.

1050
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:49,800
Fm.

1051
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,820
So they can then go and listen to

1052
00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:52,320
the podcast.

1053
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,720
So you have this continuous stream that you

1054
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:57,040
can needle drop in whenever you want and

1055
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,700
you'll hear, Oh, there's something new going on.

1056
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:00,760
Oh, you know, and someone, I know that

1057
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:01,960
someone else is going to show up and

1058
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,500
say, Hey, I've got the city council stuff.

1059
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:04,920
Can I do a podcast about the city

1060
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:05,320
council?

1061
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,200
That's the, that is the type of community

1062
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:10,400
based stuff that I think is, is the

1063
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:10,780
future.

1064
00:40:11,420 --> 00:40:13,340
And it's much more bottom up than it

1065
00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:14,140
is top down.

1066
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:15,600
Yeah.

1067
00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:17,780
I mean, we, we, we worked with local

1068
00:40:17,780 --> 00:40:18,080
schools.

1069
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,200
We had 19 year olds and 16 year

1070
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,240
olds as training presenters.

1071
00:40:22,780 --> 00:40:25,400
Um, we created every show.

1072
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,160
So we had the politics show for the

1073
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,800
area was called politically correct.

1074
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:31,560
Um, you know, and we just tried to

1075
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,260
make the names of the shows to Dave's

1076
00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:34,400
point, a bit of fun.

1077
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,180
They were easily or hoped they were easily

1078
00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:38,220
branded and memorable.

1079
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,280
Um, and so, yeah, it all works.

1080
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:42,660
Adam, it all works.

1081
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:44,180
You know, it works, Dave, you know, it

1082
00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:44,460
works.

1083
00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:48,760
It's just when somebody says radio still their

1084
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,060
expectation is car radio or turning on their

1085
00:40:53,060 --> 00:40:53,460
Alexa.

1086
00:40:53,940 --> 00:40:54,080
Right.

1087
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,480
I think that's still a weird expectation.

1088
00:40:56,700 --> 00:40:59,120
I remember when we were where the mobile

1089
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,000
only, and I'd say, Oh, I've got a

1090
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:01,580
radio station.

1091
00:41:01,580 --> 00:41:03,400
And people go, Oh, what's your frequency?

1092
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:04,620
And I go, no, no, no, we haven't

1093
00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:05,320
got a frequency.

1094
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,060
that may be a little, I think the

1095
00:41:07,060 --> 00:41:09,740
UK has a, a different type of, um,

1096
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:11,080
radio culture.

1097
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,360
But I think here in the U S

1098
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,220
it's all streaming.

1099
00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:16,140
Everybody listens to streaming.

1100
00:41:16,620 --> 00:41:17,020
Right.

1101
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:17,760
I mean, sure.

1102
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,580
It's just, they're all just listening to, Oh,

1103
00:41:19,740 --> 00:41:21,020
screaming, listening to streaming.

1104
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,460
Um, so they, you know, and I see

1105
00:41:25,460 --> 00:41:26,860
that with Caleb's like, Oh yeah, I listened

1106
00:41:26,860 --> 00:41:27,180
to Caleb.

1107
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:27,860
How do you listen?

1108
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,980
Well, I, I listened on my app and

1109
00:41:30,980 --> 00:41:33,360
I connected in my car and I, and

1110
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,700
we know that the automobile manufacturers, even Tesla's

1111
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:39,180
kind of given up, just connect your iPhone.

1112
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:40,000
Yeah.

1113
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,220
That's what everybody's doing.

1114
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,820
That's that's where it's at.

1115
00:41:42,860 --> 00:41:44,500
And that's how people listen to the thing.

1116
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:45,940
And if it's not now, it'll be that

1117
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:47,500
way in two years, five years.

1118
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:48,680
I mean, we might as well work ahead

1119
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:49,300
for the future.

1120
00:41:50,220 --> 00:41:52,060
Um, but I'm just happy that you, that

1121
00:41:52,060 --> 00:41:53,040
you have that mindset.

1122
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,500
And as Dave and I discussed, Apple are

1123
00:41:56,500 --> 00:42:01,380
crazy not to support the, the lit tag.

1124
00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:03,000
This is so obvious.

1125
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,680
It's such, it's such an obvious thing for

1126
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:06,480
them to support.

1127
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,240
Uh, because every single rate, there's not a

1128
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,440
single radio station, maybe in the world that

1129
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,400
doesn't have a stream.

1130
00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:14,420
They all have.

1131
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,500
It's actually, it's actually easier to support that

1132
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,460
tag than it is to support a standard

1133
00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:20,440
enclosure tag.

1134
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,500
I mean, a standard item tag, because you

1135
00:42:22,500 --> 00:42:24,540
don't, you don't, there's no expectation of a

1136
00:42:24,540 --> 00:42:25,020
download.

1137
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:27,080
It's purely a stream.

1138
00:42:27,740 --> 00:42:28,780
Even crazier.

1139
00:42:29,060 --> 00:42:31,480
HLS was invented by Apple.

1140
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:32,240
By Apple.

1141
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:32,740
Yes.

1142
00:42:33,060 --> 00:42:34,620
This always drives me nuts.

1143
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:36,280
Yeah.

1144
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:36,740
Yeah.

1145
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,920
You know, the, like the, uh, per item

1146
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,780
episode art, Apple had it from day one

1147
00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:46,380
in their spec, but never implemented until what

1148
00:42:46,380 --> 00:42:47,260
a couple of years ago.

1149
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:48,080
Yeah.

1150
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:49,320
Yeah.

1151
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:50,940
I don't know what's going on at Apple.

1152
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,140
I, I call them, you know, missing in

1153
00:42:53,140 --> 00:42:53,480
action.

1154
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,300
I mean, I'm waiting for the one feature

1155
00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:57,840
that we get this year from Apple.

1156
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,440
Cause it's only one feature a year and

1157
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:00,280
I don't know what it will be.

1158
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,780
Hopefully it's lit, but I don't know what

1159
00:43:03,780 --> 00:43:04,760
they're doing.

1160
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,620
They are seeding the market to YouTube and

1161
00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:09,420
Spotify.

1162
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,260
They have video capability.

1163
00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:13,680
They just don't talk about it.

1164
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:14,460
They have HLS.

1165
00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:15,660
They don't talk about it.

1166
00:43:16,140 --> 00:43:18,600
You know, everything they have, they have ready.

1167
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:19,960
They just don't do it.

1168
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:20,860
And I don't know why.

1169
00:43:21,620 --> 00:43:23,620
Well, it sounds like what you're, it sounds

1170
00:43:23,620 --> 00:43:24,540
like what you're saying.

1171
00:43:25,060 --> 00:43:27,420
And, and I, I think you're right.

1172
00:43:27,540 --> 00:43:31,360
That's that, that 2025, it can be the

1173
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,620
year of, of live, of, of lit in

1174
00:43:35,620 --> 00:43:36,500
the podcast world.

1175
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,960
I agree with that so much.

1176
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:40,940
And it sounds like what you're saying is

1177
00:43:40,940 --> 00:43:41,280
that.

1178
00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:45,420
We can make that happen just by pushing

1179
00:43:45,420 --> 00:43:46,640
the same way.

1180
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:48,540
This always has to happen just by pushing

1181
00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:50,640
the content we have to get.

1182
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,560
If, if you get some credit, some sort

1183
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:57,340
of, some level of critical mass of the

1184
00:43:57,340 --> 00:44:01,620
people of hosting companies, supporting the live stream

1185
00:44:01,620 --> 00:44:04,200
and hosting companies, that could be, it could

1186
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,040
be pure podcast hosting companies, or it could

1187
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:06,820
be like pod two.

1188
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:08,360
That's a high sort of a hybrid hosting

1189
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,280
company and radio company.

1190
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:16,100
If you, if we get some, you know,

1191
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,800
critical mass of that out there, then the

1192
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,740
apps will begin to feature it and pick

1193
00:44:21,740 --> 00:44:22,200
it up.

1194
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:24,860
Is that sort of your strategy?

1195
00:44:25,580 --> 00:44:25,700
Yeah.

1196
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:27,860
I mean, look, DRM one does what you

1197
00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:28,400
were saying.

1198
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,920
They take podcasts and they aggregate those podcasts

1199
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,000
into a schedule and then broadcast them over

1200
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:35,380
the web.

1201
00:44:35,940 --> 00:44:37,840
And as I keep saying to Russell, go

1202
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,440
HLS, go that extra step, or it doesn't

1203
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,060
have to be HLS, go Shoutcast, go Icecast,

1204
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,960
whatever you want to do, but go lit,

1205
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:44,600
right.

1206
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,360
And as another means of distribution.

1207
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,360
And again, I'll go back to Alberto and

1208
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,520
Ben at rss.com.

1209
00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:54,560
You know, they've made it really good that

1210
00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:57,360
all the fields for lit are available and

1211
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,500
you just press go live, but it's still

1212
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:02,640
confusing to an average user.

1213
00:45:03,020 --> 00:45:06,220
Where do I get the Shoutcast, Icecast or

1214
00:45:06,220 --> 00:45:07,120
HLS URL?

1215
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:08,560
Where do I find that bit?

1216
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:11,800
And it's, it's they've basically written that you

1217
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,840
go to a third party, get this URL,

1218
00:45:14,220 --> 00:45:15,780
plug it into this field and then press.

1219
00:45:15,940 --> 00:45:18,420
No, it's got to be literally brought the

1220
00:45:18,420 --> 00:45:20,500
bit like StreamYard.

1221
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,760
You know, we didn't have to understand if

1222
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,060
you were in StreamYard, I want to go

1223
00:45:24,060 --> 00:45:26,360
on to LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter.

1224
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:27,380
What do I do?

1225
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:29,580
I just press those buttons, go live and

1226
00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:30,900
magically it all happened.

1227
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,300
We've got to make lit that easy.

1228
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,240
That's a good point.

1229
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:35,640
That's a very fair point.

1230
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,900
Well, we're doing our part with the Godcaster

1231
00:45:38,900 --> 00:45:41,180
thing of giving, you know, every station that

1232
00:45:41,180 --> 00:45:41,880
comes on board.

1233
00:45:42,140 --> 00:45:43,780
Also we push it back.

1234
00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:45,640
We push their live stream back out as

1235
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:46,380
a live item.

1236
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,920
And so all those feeds, all the station

1237
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:49,740
feeds will have them.

1238
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:50,880
So that's, you know, that's going to be

1239
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,520
a bunch of fees, but then it feels

1240
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:58,320
like if a company like maybe, uh, uh,

1241
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,580
Blueberry could put that into maybe, uh, PowerPress,

1242
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,220
PowerPress had the ability, I think it already

1243
00:46:06,220 --> 00:46:08,060
has the live tag, but if it had

1244
00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:09,480
to be able to do what you're talking

1245
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,040
about, where you just like click a button

1246
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:13,700
and it goes into a time and it

1247
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:17,700
just spins up a time shared shoutcast server,

1248
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,880
like, like a one click or two click

1249
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,180
process, that would be amazing.

1250
00:46:23,820 --> 00:46:25,160
Todd talked about doing that.

1251
00:46:25,420 --> 00:46:27,440
And I was really excited.

1252
00:46:27,660 --> 00:46:30,160
This was at the beginning of 2024 and

1253
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:31,140
it was all going to happen.

1254
00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:32,720
And then nothing happened.

1255
00:46:33,020 --> 00:46:34,720
And I, I don't know whether that was

1256
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:35,420
your fault.

1257
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:36,060
It's your fault.

1258
00:46:36,180 --> 00:46:36,740
It's your fault.

1259
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,840
It's your fault, but you know, it could

1260
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:40,660
be no demand.

1261
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,300
I mean, maybe he did do it and

1262
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:45,380
you know, nobody actually wanted it or, um,

1263
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:46,120
he didn't do it.

1264
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:47,980
So that it was simplistic enough for people

1265
00:46:47,980 --> 00:46:48,540
to understand.

1266
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:49,160
I don't know.

1267
00:46:49,660 --> 00:46:50,960
I don't think it would.

1268
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:52,420
Am I crazy here?

1269
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:54,520
It wouldn't cost a lot of money, right?

1270
00:46:54,540 --> 00:46:55,660
I mean, shoutcast.

1271
00:46:56,020 --> 00:46:58,180
I mean, clearly there is a bandwidth issue

1272
00:46:58,180 --> 00:47:00,960
at some point of scale, but, but at

1273
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,440
a small, if you're, um, you know, talking

1274
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:09,740
about like rss.com, they, they've, if, you

1275
00:47:09,740 --> 00:47:14,080
know, if, if you had 50 of your

1276
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,860
users that were 25 to 50 that were

1277
00:47:16,860 --> 00:47:19,220
going live or trying to experiment with it

1278
00:47:19,220 --> 00:47:21,480
at any one point in time, that doesn't

1279
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,180
at, at speech level bit rates, it doesn't

1280
00:47:25,180 --> 00:47:28,140
seem that bandwidth intensive to me.

1281
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:29,500
Maybe I'm crazy.

1282
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:31,100
Just make it a premium service.

1283
00:47:31,380 --> 00:47:33,960
Charlie, like pod home offers it.

1284
00:47:34,020 --> 00:47:36,180
Pod home offers, uh, lit.

1285
00:47:36,860 --> 00:47:37,560
That's true.

1286
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:37,800
Yeah.

1287
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:38,340
I forget about that.

1288
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:39,980
They offer that as a built in feature.

1289
00:47:40,060 --> 00:47:42,840
I know, uh, I think Dovey does.

1290
00:47:42,940 --> 00:47:46,780
It may not be, uh, a, a click

1291
00:47:46,780 --> 00:47:51,840
plug and play type, um, feature, but I

1292
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:53,820
mean, he's been intimately involved in all these

1293
00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:54,180
things.

1294
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,460
The knowledge is definitely out there.

1295
00:47:56,460 --> 00:47:58,900
Certainly, uh, Dovey does has done all the

1296
00:47:58,900 --> 00:48:01,200
video stuff and the life switching of wallets,

1297
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:01,660
et cetera.

1298
00:48:01,780 --> 00:48:03,120
But if I look at pod home.

1299
00:48:03,340 --> 00:48:05,320
FM is right there, it's under features.

1300
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,120
It says, stream your podcast live, live podcasting,

1301
00:48:08,180 --> 00:48:11,360
go live, uh, use our streaming server.

1302
00:48:11,420 --> 00:48:12,500
We can, uh, ice cast.

1303
00:48:12,580 --> 00:48:14,020
We can record your live session.

1304
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,940
We can play pre-recorded audio as a

1305
00:48:15,940 --> 00:48:18,920
live session schedule, live episodes, and more dot,

1306
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:19,420
dot, dot.

1307
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,540
So it's starting, it's starting, it's getting there.

1308
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,400
I think just like everything else, we're going

1309
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,820
to have to, we had, we just have

1310
00:48:28,820 --> 00:48:30,220
to get, you have to start at the

1311
00:48:30,220 --> 00:48:31,000
content side.

1312
00:48:32,580 --> 00:48:35,140
I think when you guys, when you guys

1313
00:48:35,140 --> 00:48:38,040
go more public with what you're doing and

1314
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,000
people can use you as a case study,

1315
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:42,360
I think then people will start to look

1316
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:43,760
at how did they do it.

1317
00:48:43,860 --> 00:48:46,220
Then, you know, that's going to like all

1318
00:48:46,220 --> 00:48:48,340
these things like booster ground ball was a

1319
00:48:48,340 --> 00:48:48,940
case study.

1320
00:48:49,020 --> 00:48:51,380
I think we just get these case studies

1321
00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:51,640
out.

1322
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:54,160
Then people can start to see, ah, that's

1323
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:54,500
how I do.

1324
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:55,640
I go to these people.

1325
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,160
I do this thing and it just works.

1326
00:48:59,780 --> 00:49:00,340
That makes sense.

1327
00:49:00,420 --> 00:49:00,520
Yeah.

1328
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,600
Switching gears real quick.

1329
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:05,380
What Spotify open access.

1330
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,080
So this, do we know, do we know

1331
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:13,700
if this is an open source?

1332
00:49:14,020 --> 00:49:15,300
Did, am I crazy?

1333
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:17,820
Am I misremembering that they open source to

1334
00:49:17,820 --> 00:49:18,200
this?

1335
00:49:20,180 --> 00:49:22,740
I'm not aware of it, but they may

1336
00:49:22,740 --> 00:49:24,260
have done somebody in the boardroom.

1337
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:24,440
Okay.

1338
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:26,100
Do you mean the OAuth part?

1339
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:27,040
Yeah.

1340
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:27,800
The OAuth part.

1341
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,280
I thought they released a spec for this,

1342
00:49:30,940 --> 00:49:33,400
you know, in the real have a spec

1343
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,780
for their own platform for people to integrate.

1344
00:49:35,820 --> 00:49:38,140
But I don't know whether it's open source

1345
00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:40,900
as in somebody could take Spotify open access

1346
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:42,660
and reuse that on their own platform.

1347
00:49:42,940 --> 00:49:43,660
I doubt it.

1348
00:49:44,220 --> 00:49:46,640
Cause if it's just OAuth, like Nathan in

1349
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,660
the boardroom saying that it's just OAuth, but

1350
00:49:48,660 --> 00:49:49,540
it's not open source.

1351
00:49:49,580 --> 00:49:52,120
I mean, if it's just a, an OAuth

1352
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,680
thing, it feels like that could be sort

1353
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:57,720
of reverse engineered.

1354
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:03,380
What I'm getting at is, you know, Russell's

1355
00:50:03,380 --> 00:50:06,760
been doing the work on L402 with, with

1356
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,220
lightning and Fiat and you've, and secure RSS,

1357
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,480
you've, you've been collaborating with him on that.

1358
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:18,660
And it feels like at this point, if

1359
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:22,380
we don't, rather than reinventing the wheel, if

1360
00:50:22,380 --> 00:50:28,100
Spotify has this OAuth spec of how to

1361
00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:31,560
do this, then we could write reverse engineer

1362
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,600
that, write it up into an, into an

1363
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,240
actual open spec, not re-implement something from

1364
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:39,000
scratch, write it up into an open spec

1365
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,320
and then other apps could use the same

1366
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:42,920
tech.

1367
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:43,380
Right?

1368
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:44,660
Yeah, completely.

1369
00:50:44,820 --> 00:50:46,380
I mean, look, I've been trying to push

1370
00:50:46,380 --> 00:50:49,460
for the verified tag for two plus years

1371
00:50:49,460 --> 00:50:51,040
as an app.

1372
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,820
When you come to Truefans, what I need

1373
00:50:53,820 --> 00:50:55,900
the creators to do is to verify ownership

1374
00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:58,400
and then they can access the dashboard and

1375
00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,980
any other features we want to then build

1376
00:50:59,980 --> 00:51:00,500
into it.

1377
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,240
We can't do that because the emails, nine

1378
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:05,620
times out of 10 have now been removed.

1379
00:51:05,780 --> 00:51:08,280
And most users don't want to click a

1380
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,820
button, wait, wait, wait for popping, then try

1381
00:51:11,820 --> 00:51:12,460
again, try again.

1382
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:13,380
Oh, and now it's there.

1383
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,380
Oh, by that time they're bored, they've moved

1384
00:51:15,380 --> 00:51:17,320
on, they've gone, something else has caught their

1385
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:17,720
attention.

1386
00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,820
So, you know, and we tried to put

1387
00:51:20,820 --> 00:51:22,860
in the TXT field because Apple had it

1388
00:51:22,860 --> 00:51:24,640
and that hasn't worked.

1389
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,540
And so, yeah, when I talked about it

1390
00:51:27,540 --> 00:51:29,220
this week on pod news weekly, it was

1391
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:34,380
like Spotify creating an ecosystem around getting content

1392
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:35,560
in from other platforms.

1393
00:51:35,820 --> 00:51:38,440
And then they're aggregating that around their platform.

1394
00:51:39,420 --> 00:51:42,880
We could do something similar where hosts and

1395
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,180
apps in the podcasting ecosystem could partner, but

1396
00:51:46,180 --> 00:51:46,980
we don't have that.

1397
00:51:46,980 --> 00:51:48,780
For some reason, we still don't have that.

1398
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:50,440
Yes, we do a lot of things together.

1399
00:51:50,620 --> 00:51:51,760
And I think, you know, you've called it

1400
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,060
co-op petition in the past and that's

1401
00:51:53,060 --> 00:51:56,880
fine, but we don't have that deeper integration.

1402
00:51:57,220 --> 00:51:59,420
And, you know, people are asking for first

1403
00:51:59,420 --> 00:52:01,880
party data from podcasting to the apps back

1404
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,740
to the hosts for analytics.

1405
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:05,880
Well, how do we pass that back when

1406
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,660
we're not verifying anything and we're not, you

1407
00:52:07,660 --> 00:52:08,700
know, integrating with it.

1408
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,740
I think there's more we could do together.

1409
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,900
And I think Spotify, again, sadly has, you

1410
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:16,720
know, come up with the spec that allows

1411
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:22,100
third parties like Patreon, like, you know, Substack.

1412
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:22,840
Yeah.

1413
00:52:23,020 --> 00:52:23,860
To integrate.

1414
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:26,360
And, you know, they are building more and

1415
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:26,740
more of that.

1416
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:27,800
We need to do something.

1417
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,580
And I don't know what that need is.

1418
00:52:30,380 --> 00:52:32,020
If it's, if it's just, you know, if

1419
00:52:32,020 --> 00:52:35,600
it's just some, Oh, all flow that results

1420
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,280
in proving owners, proving that you're a subscriber

1421
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,780
and then you get the content out of

1422
00:52:43,780 --> 00:52:48,140
the feed into the app that it just

1423
00:52:48,140 --> 00:52:49,800
doesn't sound that hard.

1424
00:52:50,380 --> 00:52:52,340
And if something like, so if a company

1425
00:52:52,340 --> 00:52:55,140
like Substack has already done the work to

1426
00:52:55,140 --> 00:52:58,400
integrate with Spotify's open access with their flow,

1427
00:52:58,980 --> 00:53:04,080
then if we just mimic that flow, then

1428
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,170
this very, they don't have much data.

1429
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:07,840
They wouldn't have to do much work on

1430
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,720
their side to also now you can get

1431
00:53:10,720 --> 00:53:13,300
this content in true fans or, you know,

1432
00:53:13,300 --> 00:53:15,200
in, in some other app, because I was

1433
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:19,480
thinking I have this exact need because I'm

1434
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,760
a subscriber to, I'm a subscriber to a

1435
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,560
show that's behind the Substack paywall.

1436
00:53:25,860 --> 00:53:27,780
And right now they give me a private

1437
00:53:27,780 --> 00:53:29,120
RSS feed, which is fine.

1438
00:53:29,140 --> 00:53:31,040
And I don't mind that, but it is,

1439
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:32,400
it is some friction.

1440
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,160
And so if I had, but of course

1441
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,200
I'm not gonna list it on Spotify.

1442
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,840
It's a crappy podcast app.

1443
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,420
So the, if I, but if I could

1444
00:53:43,420 --> 00:53:47,200
get it in my 2.0 app, then

1445
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,360
that would be great.

1446
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:50,760
I just don't in the spirit of not,

1447
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,300
not wanting to reinvent the wheel for something

1448
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:54,280
that already works.

1449
00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:57,380
And if it's truly OAuth, then it's probably

1450
00:53:57,380 --> 00:53:59,980
open already in some sense.

1451
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,520
We just may not know what the spec

1452
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,120
is, but it's gotta be fairly easy to

1453
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:04,420
follow.

1454
00:54:04,620 --> 00:54:06,360
I just think, I don't know.

1455
00:54:06,380 --> 00:54:07,300
I think we should do that.

1456
00:54:07,300 --> 00:54:11,300
It may require reaching out to Spotify and

1457
00:54:11,300 --> 00:54:14,480
asking them if they're willing to point us

1458
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:15,320
in the right direction.

1459
00:54:16,540 --> 00:54:18,280
I don't know how well that would go,

1460
00:54:21,180 --> 00:54:24,740
but I'm just trying not to be, you

1461
00:54:24,740 --> 00:54:26,680
know, I'm trying to like think the best

1462
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:27,300
about it.

1463
00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:29,760
And I don't want to always just be

1464
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,120
like, come on, screw those guys.

1465
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,180
Come on, be like that.

1466
00:54:35,180 --> 00:54:36,100
Okay.

1467
00:54:36,560 --> 00:54:38,960
Dave, I tend to agree with you slightly.

1468
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,980
I mean, one of the things I've always

1469
00:54:40,980 --> 00:54:43,340
said is, you know, the tail can't wag

1470
00:54:43,340 --> 00:54:43,800
the dog.

1471
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:46,360
When I was in corporate, we could not

1472
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:47,340
wait for tags.

1473
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:49,540
For example, if I was say in Spotify

1474
00:54:49,540 --> 00:54:53,420
to be verified before we implemented, because we're

1475
00:54:53,420 --> 00:54:55,220
too big a public company, you've got to

1476
00:54:55,220 --> 00:54:56,440
go with what you're doing.

1477
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,500
Now, when we've got critical mass and the

1478
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:03,700
apps are starting to get traction and we're

1479
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:06,640
starting to see momentum, then they'll turn around

1480
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,260
360 or 180 and then start to look

1481
00:55:09,260 --> 00:55:09,980
at what we're doing more.

1482
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,860
I think right now you've seen, and I

1483
00:55:12,860 --> 00:55:16,040
hate being, I'm not a fan boy, but

1484
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:18,740
I'm an admirer of their strategy in the

1485
00:55:18,740 --> 00:55:21,660
sense that they executed so well last year

1486
00:55:21,660 --> 00:55:23,880
by, yes, they did events.

1487
00:55:24,020 --> 00:55:25,040
Yes, they did ticketing.

1488
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,460
Yes, they did audio books.

1489
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:27,220
Yes, they did.

1490
00:55:27,620 --> 00:55:29,280
You know, all of these things that we

1491
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,240
talk about doing in the podcasting to the

1492
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:35,000
community, they executed proprietary, but they executed.

1493
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:38,140
Now, can we get them to, to change?

1494
00:55:38,220 --> 00:55:40,380
I doubt it, but can we get Apple

1495
00:55:40,380 --> 00:55:43,320
who should be the champions for us?

1496
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:44,660
They've opened the door slightly.

1497
00:55:44,780 --> 00:55:48,020
I don't know what stops them becoming the

1498
00:55:48,020 --> 00:55:51,260
counterpoint to Spotify by actually adopting more tags.

1499
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,000
Apple intelligence has stopped them from doing everything

1500
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:54,520
else.

1501
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:56,020
It doesn't work.

1502
00:55:56,140 --> 00:55:57,380
All hands on deck.

1503
00:55:58,540 --> 00:56:00,580
By the way, I just need to say

1504
00:56:00,580 --> 00:56:03,900
one extra thing about the live, the live

1505
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:08,460
feature only really works, only really works when

1506
00:56:08,460 --> 00:56:11,780
you either have the ability to get booster

1507
00:56:11,780 --> 00:56:15,140
grams, but more importantly, I really feel the

1508
00:56:15,140 --> 00:56:20,140
chat is pertinent to the experience.

1509
00:56:20,420 --> 00:56:22,220
Yeah, it is.

1510
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:23,580
Yeah, exactly.

1511
00:56:23,860 --> 00:56:26,080
It is very, very big part of it.

1512
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:28,840
In fact, YouTube has that, you know, that's

1513
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,360
exactly what I, I work with.

1514
00:56:30,460 --> 00:56:32,240
I have a long, an ongoing chat, and

1515
00:56:32,240 --> 00:56:34,640
then someone can send a boost and it'll

1516
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,240
show up in the chat as, you know,

1517
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,460
just like, um, uh, what is it called?

1518
00:56:38,660 --> 00:56:40,740
Uh, super chat.

1519
00:56:40,820 --> 00:56:40,940
Yeah.

1520
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:42,600
Just like a super chat shows up as

1521
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:43,020
a boost.

1522
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:44,580
It says from who it says, how much

1523
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:45,520
it was, et cetera.

1524
00:56:45,860 --> 00:56:47,400
We have all those pieces.

1525
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,480
We just haven't quite put it together yet.

1526
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:50,720
Correct.

1527
00:56:51,220 --> 00:56:51,760
I agree.

1528
00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:54,200
Well, and even we've got it in the

1529
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,020
spec, the spec has, uh, within the live

1530
00:56:57,020 --> 00:56:58,720
has a chat field.

1531
00:56:59,100 --> 00:57:01,740
So yeah, Alex Gates actually said, yeah, Twitch,

1532
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,280
Twitch of course does a great job.

1533
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,580
Now Twitch, Twitch doesn't do a great job.

1534
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:07,180
I don't think people don't go back.

1535
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:07,940
Well, maybe they do.

1536
00:57:07,980 --> 00:57:08,360
I don't know.

1537
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:09,520
I don't know crap about Twitch.

1538
00:57:09,620 --> 00:57:11,460
Maybe people do go back and watch old

1539
00:57:11,460 --> 00:57:12,740
recorded stuff.

1540
00:57:12,820 --> 00:57:13,400
I don't know.

1541
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:14,640
Yeah, they do for sure.

1542
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:15,660
Yeah, yeah, they do.

1543
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,680
And that's the, the, it feels like the

1544
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,820
difference between Twitch and YouTube in that regard

1545
00:57:21,820 --> 00:57:24,380
with the chat is that YouTube added it

1546
00:57:24,380 --> 00:57:26,060
sort of added it later, but you can

1547
00:57:26,060 --> 00:57:28,040
tell that Twitch integrated it as a first

1548
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,200
class citizen from day one.

1549
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:31,640
Like it was always going to be part

1550
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:31,940
of it.

1551
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,580
So it's almost, it's almost like, it's almost

1552
00:57:34,580 --> 00:57:36,700
like the chat is co-equal with the

1553
00:57:36,700 --> 00:57:38,820
video as far as importance goes on something

1554
00:57:38,820 --> 00:57:39,620
like Twitch.

1555
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:44,260
I couldn't imagine doing, I couldn't imagine doing

1556
00:57:44,260 --> 00:57:47,100
the boardroom without the chat.

1557
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:52,100
Like it's just, it just doesn't feel right.

1558
00:57:52,100 --> 00:57:53,420
You know, I mean, you might as well

1559
00:57:53,420 --> 00:57:54,960
just not even be live at that point.

1560
00:57:56,060 --> 00:57:58,060
Um, but I think, you know, as far

1561
00:57:58,060 --> 00:57:59,540
as you like, as far as co-listening

1562
00:57:59,540 --> 00:58:03,180
goes, like you're talking about, you know, Sam,

1563
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:07,880
like the chat feels like that's an actual

1564
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:09,740
way to tell that it's not just an

1565
00:58:09,740 --> 00:58:10,440
icon there.

1566
00:58:10,460 --> 00:58:11,620
It's actually a human being.

1567
00:58:12,180 --> 00:58:12,580
Yeah.

1568
00:58:13,020 --> 00:58:16,100
It was a step one towards what we

1569
00:58:16,100 --> 00:58:18,120
wanted to do, but you know, and it's

1570
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,040
not perfect, but it was just an idea

1571
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:20,640
that I had.

1572
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,920
Um, what are you thinking about as far

1573
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:23,620
as chat goes?

1574
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:25,820
Like what, what is your, if you can

1575
00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:26,400
talk about it?

1576
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:27,020
Yeah.

1577
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:27,200
Yeah.

1578
00:58:27,220 --> 00:58:29,160
We, we want to fully support and integrate

1579
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,000
an XMPP, um, interface into TrueFans.

1580
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,840
So if I was listening on a Friday

1581
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,820
night in TrueFans to this show, there would

1582
00:58:37,820 --> 00:58:38,440
be an icon.

1583
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,560
There is now already an icon there, but

1584
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,780
that icon takes the link that you've provided

1585
00:58:43,780 --> 00:58:46,520
and drops them into a separate tab window

1586
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,720
so that you can sign up to the

1587
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:49,060
chat.

1588
00:58:49,060 --> 00:58:50,760
But we want to integrate that.

1589
00:58:50,980 --> 00:58:52,800
And so that it's part of the UI

1590
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,300
and it's natural.

1591
00:58:54,420 --> 00:58:57,060
Um, again, it's on the roadmap.

1592
00:58:57,460 --> 00:58:59,400
Uh, it's not something that we can do.

1593
00:58:59,860 --> 00:59:01,820
You know, we've got, we've got to be

1594
00:59:01,820 --> 00:59:02,460
native apps.

1595
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,640
You, you asked, I think a few, few

1596
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:07,220
months ago, you know, is Sam still doing

1597
00:59:07,220 --> 00:59:07,720
native apps?

1598
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:08,360
A hundred percent.

1599
00:59:08,460 --> 00:59:11,000
We have to now we, we, we, we

1600
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,440
won't, um, deprecate the universal web app, but

1601
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,420
we will, and that will be our first

1602
00:59:16,420 --> 00:59:18,880
class app, but we will put native apps

1603
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:21,500
because too many people say to us for

1604
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:22,220
two reasons.

1605
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,080
One is, Oh, uh, true fans where you

1606
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:25,220
are.

1607
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,600
I can't find you in the, the, the

1608
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:27,100
app stores.

1609
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:27,360
Right.

1610
00:59:27,460 --> 00:59:29,080
So we just got rid of that problem.

1611
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,640
The second one, the performance that, um, Apple

1612
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:35,700
does to the platform for a universal web

1613
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:36,980
app is just horrendous.

1614
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,180
You know, it is the best.

1615
00:59:40,060 --> 00:59:40,500
Yeah.

1616
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,480
And, and I get people going, Oh, you

1617
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,800
know, I, I, I've got my iPhone and

1618
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,800
I've got the, uh, player widget playing.

1619
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:50,520
Um, but I can't hit play and get

1620
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:51,280
to your, your app.

1621
00:59:51,340 --> 00:59:52,280
You have to open the app to get

1622
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:52,560
it to play.

1623
00:59:52,640 --> 00:59:52,780
Yeah.

1624
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,580
Apple's have disabled it.

1625
00:59:54,820 --> 00:59:55,900
We can't get them around.

1626
00:59:55,980 --> 00:59:58,720
I mean, Zuckerberg on Rogan talks about the

1627
00:59:58,720 --> 00:59:59,640
airport protocol.

1628
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,800
They can't get it on the glasses because

1629
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:04,020
Apple won't allow it.

1630
01:00:04,380 --> 01:00:06,840
And so, yeah, you know, if you can't

1631
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,360
beat them, you sometimes have to join them.

1632
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,500
And I think, uh, you know, we're going

1633
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:11,700
to just be multi-platform.

1634
01:00:11,700 --> 01:00:13,500
We're just going to be native and web

1635
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:15,800
and just let people choose which way they

1636
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:16,200
want to go.

1637
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:19,200
I don't think if you've not developed a

1638
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:24,020
PWA before, what, what Sam is talking about

1639
01:00:24,020 --> 01:00:27,620
is it's, the problem is not that it

1640
01:00:27,620 --> 01:00:32,200
doesn't, um, it's not a binary problem.

1641
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,160
It's not like it just doesn't work or

1642
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:34,920
it does work.

1643
01:00:35,180 --> 01:00:38,040
The problem, the fresh, the frustrating part on

1644
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,460
the Apple side of PWA support is it

1645
01:00:41,460 --> 01:00:44,700
looks like it's working, but it doesn't like

1646
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:47,980
you, you'll, you'll do something as simple as,

1647
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:51,080
as tap, uh, a play button.

1648
01:00:51,660 --> 01:00:53,840
And after the PWA has been running for

1649
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,640
a little while, it just stops responding to

1650
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:56,480
tap sometimes.

1651
01:00:56,940 --> 01:00:59,640
And, and you, you can't, it's like, you

1652
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:01,260
can't forget for the, you can't figure out

1653
01:01:01,260 --> 01:01:03,740
why this function isn't working, kill the app,

1654
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:04,380
relaunch it.

1655
01:01:04,420 --> 01:01:05,120
It works fine.

1656
01:01:05,380 --> 01:01:08,000
Or sometimes the media session API that's supposed

1657
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,640
to show the artwork, uh, on like CarPlay

1658
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,640
or even on the lock screen itself, the

1659
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,120
media session API, you'll, you'll play a podcast.

1660
01:01:17,900 --> 01:01:19,840
It'll show the artwork on the lock screen.

1661
01:01:20,260 --> 01:01:21,340
You start listening.

1662
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,780
And after a while you go in the

1663
01:01:23,780 --> 01:01:24,960
artwork is just not there anymore.

1664
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:26,900
And you can still hear the pot here

1665
01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:28,680
at playing, or sometimes it'll blink.

1666
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,500
It'll come on to the lock screen and

1667
01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:32,640
then go off and then come on and

1668
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:32,960
go off.

1669
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,580
It's so buggy and it's, it's so buggy

1670
01:01:36,580 --> 01:01:38,800
to the point that it almost feels intentional.

1671
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,280
It is intentional.

1672
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,700
It is intentional because, you know, they know,

1673
01:01:43,820 --> 01:01:45,500
I mean, just a simple thing, add to

1674
01:01:45,500 --> 01:01:49,000
home screen is the sixth or seventh item

1675
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,080
down on the menu.

1676
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:51,360
So it's below the fold.

1677
01:01:51,700 --> 01:01:52,940
It's done intentionally.

1678
01:01:53,140 --> 01:01:55,820
That could simply have been add app, right?

1679
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:57,420
They could have called it instead of add

1680
01:01:57,420 --> 01:01:58,080
to home screen.

1681
01:01:58,660 --> 01:01:59,720
Um, they could have done that.

1682
01:01:59,780 --> 01:02:00,420
They won't do that.

1683
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:01,540
We know they won't do that.

1684
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,940
Um, the interesting thing, um, because, uh, we

1685
01:02:05,940 --> 01:02:07,940
have a, I call it a universal app,

1686
01:02:08,860 --> 01:02:10,560
um, for marketing purposes.

1687
01:02:11,180 --> 01:02:11,660
Yeah.

1688
01:02:11,660 --> 01:02:13,040
And I, as a part of the marketing

1689
01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:16,000
purposes, I say, uh, you, it, you download

1690
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:18,200
it once to all your devices and it

1691
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:19,040
always works.

1692
01:02:19,060 --> 01:02:21,060
There's no pesky app store updates.

1693
01:02:21,580 --> 01:02:22,960
People go, Oh, that's great.

1694
01:02:23,020 --> 01:02:23,680
I love that.

1695
01:02:23,820 --> 01:02:25,160
They have no idea what I'm talking about,

1696
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,040
but once, once I do it for someone

1697
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,500
and install the hello Fred universal app on

1698
01:02:31,500 --> 01:02:33,220
their iPhone, they love it.

1699
01:02:33,620 --> 01:02:34,580
They just think it's an app.

1700
01:02:35,060 --> 01:02:35,460
Yes.

1701
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:36,960
Literally is that ones.

1702
01:02:37,060 --> 01:02:38,740
And even on the iPhone, it works perfectly

1703
01:02:38,740 --> 01:02:39,160
fine.

1704
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,840
Um, or at least fine enough for, for

1705
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:43,500
what it is.

1706
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,020
And once they have it, they're like, Oh

1707
01:02:46,020 --> 01:02:47,100
yeah, I got the hello Fred app.

1708
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:48,620
They don't know any different.

1709
01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:50,660
I, the stupidity of the user.

1710
01:02:50,660 --> 01:02:52,960
And I say that with respect and love

1711
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:54,380
has been built in.

1712
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:56,700
I mean, I, if I just say, I

1713
01:02:56,700 --> 01:02:57,760
think we talked about this.

1714
01:02:57,900 --> 01:02:59,900
Hey, just to go to hello, Fred dot

1715
01:02:59,900 --> 01:03:00,200
FM.

1716
01:03:00,340 --> 01:03:04,000
They open up duck, duck, go or Safari.

1717
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,340
The search is, is at the bottom.

1718
01:03:06,580 --> 01:03:08,240
Like that seems to be standard.

1719
01:03:08,340 --> 01:03:09,240
Now it's at the bottom.

1720
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,840
I just type in hello, Fred dot FM.

1721
01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:15,860
They have no idea that there, what a

1722
01:03:15,860 --> 01:03:16,640
URL is.

1723
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:18,020
This is, this is gone.

1724
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,000
They're all going through search intentionally.

1725
01:03:21,860 --> 01:03:25,000
Of course, because Apple and Google both benefit

1726
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,320
enormously from that.

1727
01:03:27,540 --> 01:03:28,200
How are you?

1728
01:03:28,340 --> 01:03:29,060
Which is why go.

1729
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:29,580
I'm sorry, Dave.

1730
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:30,660
No, no, no.

1731
01:03:30,660 --> 01:03:32,760
I was just going to ask, how are

1732
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,460
you going to get a sort of through

1733
01:03:35,460 --> 01:03:37,680
the gauntlet of the app store?

1734
01:03:40,220 --> 01:03:41,600
I mean, you can't just wrap.

1735
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,100
Well, you can't just wrap the, the, the

1736
01:03:46,100 --> 01:03:47,800
web version of true fans.

1737
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:51,760
We can in a container, but do they

1738
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:52,360
allow that?

1739
01:03:52,620 --> 01:03:54,280
We're using native react.

1740
01:03:54,780 --> 01:03:57,640
So we built next JS.

1741
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,340
So next week, we're sort of doing a

1742
01:04:02,340 --> 01:04:03,520
feature freeze right now.

1743
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:05,920
And by the end of this week, next

1744
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,780
week, we're going to do an upgrade from

1745
01:04:07,780 --> 01:04:08,100
next.

1746
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:08,480
Yes.

1747
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:10,780
11 to 15 react.

1748
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:11,860
Going to go to you.

1749
01:04:11,880 --> 01:04:14,260
Version 19 framework upgrades.

1750
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:15,600
They're hell on earth.

1751
01:04:15,980 --> 01:04:18,580
We're doing refactoring of the API APIs.

1752
01:04:18,660 --> 01:04:20,220
We're doing all.

1753
01:04:20,420 --> 01:04:22,260
We're looking at website and popping again.

1754
01:04:22,260 --> 01:04:23,480
We're looking at the validator.

1755
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,900
We just going back to clean up all

1756
01:04:27,900 --> 01:04:29,660
the mess that I think we've had, which

1757
01:04:29,660 --> 01:04:32,320
is, you know, technical debt over the last

1758
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:32,900
two years.

1759
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,880
And then we will use native react to

1760
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,860
then build the native apps and then submit

1761
01:04:38,860 --> 01:04:40,060
those and see where we get to.

1762
01:04:40,220 --> 01:04:42,760
I mean, it's not quite a rapper, but

1763
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,400
it's using the same code base pretty much.

1764
01:04:45,540 --> 01:04:47,340
So we don't have to start from scratch.

1765
01:04:47,700 --> 01:04:48,780
That's the goal anyway.

1766
01:04:49,380 --> 01:04:51,080
You're trying to get sort of like a

1767
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,920
unified code base so you can build the

1768
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:53,900
native react app.

1769
01:04:53,980 --> 01:04:56,220
And then that kind of mimics it mimics

1770
01:04:56,220 --> 01:04:57,520
what the web apps doing, but in a

1771
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:57,900
native.

1772
01:04:58,440 --> 01:04:58,780
Correct.

1773
01:04:59,320 --> 01:04:59,720
Okay.

1774
01:04:59,900 --> 01:05:00,100
Yeah.

1775
01:05:00,100 --> 01:05:00,740
That makes sense.

1776
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,080
That makes sense.

1777
01:05:02,140 --> 01:05:02,240
Yeah.

1778
01:05:02,300 --> 01:05:03,780
Good luck with that.

1779
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,920
I think that, you know, that's, that's been,

1780
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,520
that's been everything about app stores is frustrating,

1781
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,400
but that minimum functionality.

1782
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,700
It's a special kind of frustrating.

1783
01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:16,700
Yeah.

1784
01:05:16,940 --> 01:05:17,320
Yeah.

1785
01:05:17,740 --> 01:05:18,840
But I think you're right.

1786
01:05:18,860 --> 01:05:20,240
I think you kind of have, if you're

1787
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:22,700
going to be an app, you, you, you

1788
01:05:22,700 --> 01:05:24,320
have to do that because the thing that

1789
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,300
makes like word and Excel and the office

1790
01:05:27,300 --> 01:05:29,560
apps, the things that make the thing that

1791
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,600
makes them also be okay as web apps

1792
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,340
is the fact that they were native to

1793
01:05:34,340 --> 01:05:35,080
begin with.

1794
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,220
It's because they have a native counterpart.

1795
01:05:38,500 --> 01:05:41,380
And so people just accept, okay, this is

1796
01:05:41,380 --> 01:05:42,900
the web version of that thing.

1797
01:05:43,740 --> 01:05:45,420
But if you're web only, and you don't

1798
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:50,020
have a native app, it's, it's difficult to

1799
01:05:50,020 --> 01:05:52,940
get because you're just not there, you know?

1800
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,800
I mean, Oscar's done a great job with

1801
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:57,140
fountain.

1802
01:05:57,360 --> 01:05:59,500
So you go to fountain and on the

1803
01:05:59,500 --> 01:06:01,500
web and it will come up with the

1804
01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:04,640
iOS banner because that's the way Apple does

1805
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:04,760
it.

1806
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:06,240
It says, Oh, you're on a web version

1807
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:07,600
of an app that's already in our app

1808
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:07,800
store.

1809
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:08,900
Why didn't you load the app?

1810
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:11,260
And I think Adam, you were asking that

1811
01:06:11,260 --> 01:06:13,040
as well, which is how'd you get this

1812
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:14,620
banner at the top rather than the pop

1813
01:06:14,620 --> 01:06:16,280
-up, you know, which you have to program.

1814
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,480
So Apple have pre-designed it so that

1815
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,780
if you put in, you can, you know,

1816
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,020
in the, when you build your native app,

1817
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:26,960
you can actually have it so that when

1818
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,320
it detects your web app, it'll then put

1819
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:31,920
an Apple banner at the top where you

1820
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:32,640
have one click.

1821
01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:35,300
And strangely it does say install the app.

1822
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:35,800
It does.

1823
01:06:36,620 --> 01:06:37,560
I know it's amazing.

1824
01:06:38,020 --> 01:06:38,660
It's amazing.

1825
01:06:38,980 --> 01:06:40,580
So, you know, Apple are trying to drive

1826
01:06:40,580 --> 01:06:42,020
you away from the web, back to the

1827
01:06:42,020 --> 01:06:42,360
app store.

1828
01:06:42,460 --> 01:06:45,320
But I think in that case, fine, let's

1829
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:46,320
just play their game.

1830
01:06:46,380 --> 01:06:47,400
We're not going to beat them at their

1831
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:47,700
game.

1832
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,320
So we're going to be in both places.

1833
01:06:50,580 --> 01:06:50,900
That's it.

1834
01:06:50,900 --> 01:06:53,780
As a, as a way to just shift

1835
01:06:53,780 --> 01:06:56,800
gears for a second, I am now receiving

1836
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:01,780
during this live broadcast, I am receiving booster

1837
01:07:01,780 --> 01:07:06,100
grams and they are coming through both on

1838
01:07:06,100 --> 01:07:07,120
my helipad.

1839
01:07:07,300 --> 01:07:10,340
So that means through key send and with

1840
01:07:10,340 --> 01:07:14,200
the booster gram on my strike account from

1841
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:15,100
Curio caster.

1842
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:18,940
Is this the split box?

1843
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:20,380
I think so.

1844
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:21,440
No, it may not.

1845
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:22,620
I don't know if it's the split box

1846
01:07:22,620 --> 01:07:24,240
or if it's just Curio caster.

1847
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:27,520
Steven B and Eric PP have been testing

1848
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:28,780
this out and it's working.

1849
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:31,960
So that means that we have splits going

1850
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,900
to Ellen address or in this case, Ellen

1851
01:07:35,900 --> 01:07:39,060
URL and to key send and it's functioning.

1852
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:41,580
Oh, nice.

1853
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:42,640
It's very nice.

1854
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,640
So it's not, it's built into Curio caster.

1855
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:47,480
Okay.

1856
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:48,120
Okay.

1857
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,060
Cause I have a one split in the,

1858
01:07:51,060 --> 01:07:53,960
in our value block that is a test

1859
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,200
Ellen URL address, Adam courier strike dot me

1860
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:58,280
and it's just working.

1861
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,280
Sam, are you, are you, you're on Albi

1862
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:03,880
hub, right?

1863
01:08:04,060 --> 01:08:04,460
Still?

1864
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:04,860
Yes.

1865
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:05,500
Yeah, we are.

1866
01:08:05,580 --> 01:08:05,720
Yeah.

1867
01:08:06,460 --> 01:08:06,940
Okay.

1868
01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:11,640
But we think is Albi hub there's, I

1869
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,280
think this should work through that too, right?

1870
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:14,580
Yeah, it still does.

1871
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:18,600
I mean, um, we, we're supporting both key

1872
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,080
send and Ellen address.

1873
01:08:20,180 --> 01:08:23,819
I mean, we are asking, um, Bumi, if

1874
01:08:23,819 --> 01:08:26,380
he can do batch processing for Ellen address,

1875
01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:28,460
cause that's the biggest problem we're finding right

1876
01:08:28,460 --> 01:08:28,760
now.

1877
01:08:28,979 --> 01:08:30,979
Uh, with key send, it was easy to

1878
01:08:30,979 --> 01:08:31,640
batch everything.

1879
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,800
Uh, we can't do that, but we, you

1880
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,279
know, for example, fountain radio, when Oscar coded

1881
01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:38,899
that up as a test, um, we jumped

1882
01:08:38,899 --> 01:08:39,760
on that really quickly.

1883
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,380
We made it work and we checked with

1884
01:08:42,380 --> 01:08:42,720
Oscar.

1885
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:44,700
And that all worked with an address.

1886
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:45,979
So that was fine.

1887
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,180
Um, and then it's been deprecated.

1888
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:52,500
So we still use LNURLP, which is okay.

1889
01:08:52,500 --> 01:08:54,819
But again, that the problem is the batching.

1890
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:57,020
So if you've got splits like you have

1891
01:08:57,020 --> 01:09:00,420
within this show, um, the processing of those

1892
01:09:00,420 --> 01:09:02,479
splits is really, really slow because it's the

1893
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:03,359
single API.

1894
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,800
So Stephen B says he's using Albi hub,

1895
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:08,640
uh, to make this all work.

1896
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,359
And he's, what he's doing is he's adding,

1897
01:09:10,899 --> 01:09:13,040
uh, the booster gram, the content of the

1898
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:14,920
booster gram to the comment feel for the,

1899
01:09:14,939 --> 01:09:16,319
uh, for the invoice request.

1900
01:09:17,100 --> 01:09:19,020
And I did get a note from Oscar

1901
01:09:19,020 --> 01:09:21,640
that Ellen address splits capability will be coming

1902
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,300
very soon to fountain, hopefully within the next

1903
01:09:24,300 --> 01:09:24,979
week or so.

1904
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,319
And that should probably move things along when

1905
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:28,180
that starts to happen.

1906
01:09:28,180 --> 01:09:30,979
That'll be huge for value for value, because

1907
01:09:30,979 --> 01:09:34,960
I mean, uh, just looking at the information

1908
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,640
we have 98% of the V4V stuff

1909
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:40,040
is, is now pretty much coming.

1910
01:09:40,040 --> 01:09:43,660
it's number one is, uh, fountain.

1911
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:44,960
Number two is pod verse.

1912
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,920
And that's probably people who are savvy enough

1913
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,899
to have upgraded, uh, their, uh, their Albi

1914
01:09:52,899 --> 01:09:55,100
wallets to a hub or something similar.

1915
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:58,600
So, so I'm happy to see this.

1916
01:09:58,660 --> 01:10:00,800
Uh, and, and I love the Curio casters

1917
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:01,960
just, it just works.

1918
01:10:03,300 --> 01:10:03,820
Yeah.

1919
01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:04,300
Yeah.

1920
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:07,260
So that would mean if, so if, if

1921
01:10:07,260 --> 01:10:09,460
the Albi hub is doing that, that means

1922
01:10:09,460 --> 01:10:10,200
true fans works.

1923
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:11,400
Curio caster works.

1924
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,480
Then fountain would work.

1925
01:10:14,380 --> 01:10:17,720
Um, and then, uh, I don't know.

1926
01:10:17,900 --> 01:10:19,180
And we're only at January 17th.

1927
01:10:19,740 --> 01:10:20,640
Not bad gentlemen.

1928
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:23,500
Not bad for two weeks after Albi apocalypse.

1929
01:10:24,540 --> 01:10:26,060
I think it's very good.

1930
01:10:26,100 --> 01:10:26,480
Actually.

1931
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:27,480
I'm very, I'm pleased.

1932
01:10:27,580 --> 01:10:28,340
I'm very pleased.

1933
01:10:28,700 --> 01:10:29,280
That's good.

1934
01:10:30,420 --> 01:10:30,900
Yeah.

1935
01:10:30,900 --> 01:10:32,980
I don't, I still, you know, the, I

1936
01:10:32,980 --> 01:10:34,120
don't know about, I don't know what pot

1937
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:35,260
versus doing though.

1938
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:38,480
I don't think pot versus change anything.

1939
01:10:38,660 --> 01:10:40,920
I just, people are, uh, are using it

1940
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:41,660
with Albi hub.

1941
01:10:41,820 --> 01:10:42,300
I presume.

1942
01:10:42,780 --> 01:10:43,760
With Albi hub.

1943
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:44,060
Yeah.

1944
01:10:45,180 --> 01:10:45,440
Mitch.

1945
01:10:45,620 --> 01:10:46,840
I'm, I'm worried about Mitch.

1946
01:10:46,900 --> 01:10:49,120
I, I hope he's not, I hope he's

1947
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:49,640
not dead.

1948
01:10:50,540 --> 01:10:51,740
I don't think he's dead.

1949
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,200
Now he, whenever we say this, he pops

1950
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:55,720
up and he says, I'm not dead.

1951
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:56,900
Okay.

1952
01:10:59,380 --> 01:11:00,280
Which is good.

1953
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:01,160
It's good news.

1954
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:07,980
What, what is the biggest, um, I don't

1955
01:11:07,980 --> 01:11:08,120
know.

1956
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:09,740
What, what do you, what is the biggest

1957
01:11:09,740 --> 01:11:12,120
thing that true fans needs tech wise?

1958
01:11:12,220 --> 01:11:15,220
Well, what, what is podcasting in general, but

1959
01:11:15,220 --> 01:11:19,840
as far as 2.0 goes, where's, where

1960
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:20,700
are we turning to?

1961
01:11:20,780 --> 01:11:22,180
What, what do you think is the biggest

1962
01:11:22,180 --> 01:11:23,140
need right now?

1963
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:27,000
Um, what's the biggest need?

1964
01:11:27,020 --> 01:11:27,640
Good question.

1965
01:11:27,980 --> 01:11:32,440
Um, I think, I, I, I, I think

1966
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:35,520
we just need more, more case studies.

1967
01:11:35,660 --> 01:11:36,540
We need more marketing.

1968
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:38,200
It goes back to the PSP.

1969
01:11:38,420 --> 01:11:42,100
It goes back to, um, the industry combining,

1970
01:11:42,260 --> 01:11:43,860
you know, the sum of the parts is

1971
01:11:43,860 --> 01:11:44,060
greater.

1972
01:11:44,420 --> 01:11:45,660
Uh, you know, the whole is greater than

1973
01:11:45,660 --> 01:11:46,240
the sum of the parts.

1974
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,020
I just, I just feel we're not pulling

1975
01:11:49,020 --> 01:11:49,580
together.

1976
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:50,220
Yes.

1977
01:11:50,220 --> 01:11:51,920
We're doing some great stuff and we're putting

1978
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:53,920
some cool tech together and we're making the

1979
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:55,060
micro payments work.

1980
01:11:55,180 --> 01:11:57,880
And, um, but I, I, I still feel

1981
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,600
that we're not talking to the mainstream.

1982
01:12:00,620 --> 01:12:02,060
We're not talking to the normies.

1983
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,520
I think we've got a, a, a bubble

1984
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,740
where we are brilliant at talking to each

1985
01:12:06,740 --> 01:12:07,020
other.

1986
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:09,840
Um, we are brilliant at developing tech and

1987
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:12,580
we are so far ahead of where other

1988
01:12:12,580 --> 01:12:15,160
people are that maybe I worry we lose

1989
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:16,800
them if we can't bridge that gap.

1990
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:20,980
Um, you know, and that's where I think

1991
01:12:20,980 --> 01:12:21,240
we are.

1992
01:12:21,340 --> 01:12:24,160
I think we've, we may have got a,

1993
01:12:24,380 --> 01:12:26,840
uh, ahead of our skis, uh, a little

1994
01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:27,120
bit.

1995
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:29,920
Yeah, we have to, but I think we're,

1996
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,500
we're not bringing along the mainstream crowd.

1997
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:37,520
Now, one of the things that, um, Russell

1998
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:39,660
and I talked about with secure RSS is

1999
01:12:39,660 --> 01:12:41,940
we are talking to music companies.

2000
01:12:41,940 --> 01:12:45,200
We're talking to people like Pushkin industries, um,

2001
01:12:45,220 --> 01:12:47,900
audio book providers who now are saying, okay,

2002
01:12:48,220 --> 01:12:50,440
um, I wasn't keen on V for V

2003
01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:52,400
because I've got a value that I've set

2004
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:53,640
to this piece of content.

2005
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,000
Um, and I'm not going to wait for

2006
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,860
somebody to value it for me.

2007
01:12:57,860 --> 01:12:59,220
I've set my value.

2008
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,420
So can you guarantee it?

2009
01:13:01,460 --> 01:13:04,260
And we're saying, okay, we can now.

2010
01:13:04,820 --> 01:13:06,720
And, and that may be one way.

2011
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,580
If I look at my children who are

2012
01:13:08,580 --> 01:13:09,780
in their twenties, right?

2013
01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:12,160
Um, will they come off Spotify?

2014
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,140
Not really, not right now.

2015
01:13:14,140 --> 01:13:15,480
Cause the driver is the music.

2016
01:13:15,580 --> 01:13:17,280
They're not there for the podcasting or there

2017
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:18,320
for everything else.

2018
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:22,860
So how can we get the music people?

2019
01:13:22,980 --> 01:13:24,300
I mean, I, you know, again, if you

2020
01:13:24,300 --> 01:13:25,940
want to have a conversation, had a great

2021
01:13:25,940 --> 01:13:27,520
conversation with Julia Costello this week.

2022
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:29,860
Um, I think David has done something brilliant.

2023
01:13:29,860 --> 01:13:32,300
He's added the license tag to RSS.com,

2024
01:13:32,580 --> 01:13:33,420
RSS blue now.

2025
01:13:34,020 --> 01:13:37,700
Um, so we, we, there's things we can

2026
01:13:37,700 --> 01:13:38,640
do more and more.

2027
01:13:38,700 --> 01:13:40,700
We talked about, you know, Twitter.

2028
01:13:43,190 --> 01:13:43,670
Hello.

2029
01:13:44,590 --> 01:13:44,990
Nope.

2030
01:13:45,110 --> 01:13:45,510
I'm sorry.

2031
01:13:45,690 --> 01:13:45,950
It bled.

2032
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:49,130
Is that bleeding through main channel?

2033
01:13:49,550 --> 01:13:51,150
Oh, that's not supposed to happen.

2034
01:13:51,450 --> 01:13:51,790
Let me see.

2035
01:13:51,950 --> 01:13:53,130
Are you hearing it now?

2036
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:55,470
Yeah, no, no, no, no.

2037
01:13:55,490 --> 01:13:55,910
That's no good.

2038
01:13:55,930 --> 01:13:57,090
You can edit it out in post.

2039
01:13:59,570 --> 01:14:00,630
Yeah, I was never going to do that.

2040
01:14:00,690 --> 01:14:01,870
I was trying to get the ISO ready,

2041
01:14:02,030 --> 01:14:03,690
but for some reason that's, uh, I'm sorry

2042
01:14:03,690 --> 01:14:04,250
about that.

2043
01:14:04,850 --> 01:14:08,290
But on that, Sam, this is exactly why

2044
01:14:08,290 --> 01:14:10,530
we do showcases like booster Graham ball.

2045
01:14:10,530 --> 01:14:13,370
And the, the most recent booster Graham ball

2046
01:14:13,370 --> 01:14:16,190
live was targeted towards what you would call

2047
01:14:16,190 --> 01:14:17,050
normies musicians.

2048
01:14:17,870 --> 01:14:21,070
And there were normal musicians who had never

2049
01:14:21,070 --> 01:14:22,410
heard of this stuff.

2050
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:26,730
And every single one of the six bands

2051
01:14:26,730 --> 01:14:29,350
that were there, six or seven came up

2052
01:14:29,350 --> 01:14:31,910
to me and said, dude, this stuff makes

2053
01:14:31,910 --> 01:14:33,050
a difference in my life.

2054
01:14:33,430 --> 01:14:34,550
This makes a difference.

2055
01:14:34,650 --> 01:14:37,470
This value for value thing, this making five,

2056
01:14:37,590 --> 01:14:41,490
$600 for, uh, for doing a set makes

2057
01:14:41,490 --> 01:14:42,030
a difference.

2058
01:14:42,030 --> 01:14:43,970
And, and we made a difference and that's

2059
01:14:43,970 --> 01:14:45,450
what I think open mic is doing so

2060
01:14:45,450 --> 01:14:45,950
brilliantly.

2061
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:49,510
And that's why I am, uh, reaching out

2062
01:14:49,510 --> 01:14:52,990
to, uh, the Nostra community because they do

2063
01:14:52,990 --> 01:14:54,810
bring people with wallets.

2064
01:14:55,070 --> 01:14:57,970
You know, people have wallets and they can

2065
01:14:57,970 --> 01:15:00,930
come in and whether, you know, whether we

2066
01:15:00,930 --> 01:15:02,630
make it so they can zap and it

2067
01:15:02,630 --> 01:15:03,430
goes through a split.

2068
01:15:03,550 --> 01:15:05,530
So whether they bring their wallets and, and

2069
01:15:05,530 --> 01:15:08,730
use it for, uh, for booster grams doesn't

2070
01:15:08,730 --> 01:15:11,370
really matter to me as long as we

2071
01:15:11,370 --> 01:15:13,830
can get more people in, but you do

2072
01:15:13,830 --> 01:15:15,970
it by bringing in this always the content,

2073
01:15:16,070 --> 01:15:19,150
Sam, it's always the content and all this

2074
01:15:19,150 --> 01:15:20,910
video nonsense will go away.

2075
01:15:20,930 --> 01:15:23,330
And we have another fantastic audio show that

2076
01:15:23,330 --> 01:15:24,250
catches fire.

2077
01:15:24,310 --> 01:15:25,950
It, the lightning flashes.

2078
01:15:26,130 --> 01:15:27,550
We have no idea what it is or

2079
01:15:27,550 --> 01:15:28,990
how it happens, but it happens.

2080
01:15:28,990 --> 01:15:31,150
And then everybody will be listening to audio

2081
01:15:31,150 --> 01:15:31,990
podcasts again.

2082
01:15:32,030 --> 01:15:33,390
And that's all we'll be talking about.

2083
01:15:33,570 --> 01:15:35,030
Oh, this is the, this is the next

2084
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:35,910
new greatest thing.

2085
01:15:35,990 --> 01:15:37,670
It's always the same.

2086
01:15:38,510 --> 01:15:40,370
I was listening to Buzzcast tonight.

2087
01:15:40,570 --> 01:15:43,290
Kevin from Buzzcast made a brilliant point, which

2088
01:15:43,290 --> 01:15:47,050
is, um, audio allows me to have my

2089
01:15:47,050 --> 01:15:50,870
attention on the audio while driving, while walking,

2090
01:15:50,970 --> 01:15:54,570
while running, wherever the video element has to

2091
01:15:54,570 --> 01:15:55,210
be there.

2092
01:15:55,450 --> 01:15:57,370
If it was just two talking heads, it's

2093
01:15:57,370 --> 01:15:57,930
very boring.

2094
01:15:57,930 --> 01:16:00,010
So they have to throw video that does

2095
01:16:00,010 --> 01:16:01,310
things to keep my attention.

2096
01:16:01,830 --> 01:16:04,650
And he was saying the video element is

2097
01:16:04,650 --> 01:16:08,110
added complexity to keep my attention, but that's

2098
01:16:08,110 --> 01:16:10,010
not the driving reason why I want to

2099
01:16:10,010 --> 01:16:10,630
listen to a podcast.

2100
01:16:11,290 --> 01:16:13,170
And so I think he was so on

2101
01:16:13,170 --> 01:16:16,630
the money that, you know, video is there

2102
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:19,330
to try and make you focus into whatever

2103
01:16:19,330 --> 01:16:21,930
you're listening to, but you don't need it.

2104
01:16:21,990 --> 01:16:23,110
It's not required.

2105
01:16:23,370 --> 01:16:26,190
And, you know, we, if we just pander

2106
01:16:26,190 --> 01:16:29,150
to the needs of video platforms saying that

2107
01:16:29,150 --> 01:16:32,150
you need video, um, then we lose the

2108
01:16:32,150 --> 01:16:33,810
value, which is what James was saying.

2109
01:16:34,030 --> 01:16:37,150
Podcasting is, it's that audio first capability so

2110
01:16:37,150 --> 01:16:38,530
that you can do other things.

2111
01:16:38,990 --> 01:16:40,390
That's why we love podcasts.

2112
01:16:41,370 --> 01:16:41,470
Yeah.

2113
01:16:41,470 --> 01:16:43,410
I think, I think, you know, you, you

2114
01:16:43,410 --> 01:16:45,430
and James had a good, an interesting discussion

2115
01:16:45,430 --> 01:16:49,650
where you disagreed about, um, you know, about

2116
01:16:49,650 --> 01:16:53,210
whether the driving for the driving force for

2117
01:16:53,210 --> 01:16:54,710
revenue in the future for some of these

2118
01:16:54,710 --> 01:16:56,870
big companies is going to be advertising or

2119
01:16:56,870 --> 01:16:59,950
revenue sharing from subscriptions, you know, and he

2120
01:16:59,950 --> 01:17:02,010
disagreed that people, you know, he said, well,

2121
01:17:02,010 --> 01:17:03,750
we know that people are not skipping ads.

2122
01:17:04,410 --> 01:17:04,670
I disagree.

2123
01:17:05,210 --> 01:17:06,030
I couldn't say it.

2124
01:17:06,330 --> 01:17:06,770
Yeah.

2125
01:17:07,010 --> 01:17:07,310
Yeah.

2126
01:17:07,370 --> 01:17:08,910
I don't think we, I don't think we,

2127
01:17:09,130 --> 01:17:11,070
I don't think we know that for sure

2128
01:17:11,070 --> 01:17:14,610
because you can't, um, you can't measure it.

2129
01:17:15,210 --> 01:17:15,330
Spotify.

2130
01:17:15,510 --> 01:17:17,970
Now that Spotify have first party data that

2131
01:17:17,970 --> 01:17:19,450
will be able to go to advertisers.

2132
01:17:20,130 --> 01:17:23,050
Advertisers must be demanding first party data.

2133
01:17:23,050 --> 01:17:24,810
How long did you listen to my ad?

2134
01:17:24,910 --> 01:17:25,790
When was my ad listened?

2135
01:17:25,950 --> 01:17:28,750
How many people, they will know that data

2136
01:17:28,750 --> 01:17:30,450
hosts don't know that data.

2137
01:17:30,490 --> 01:17:30,810
Okay.

2138
01:17:31,210 --> 01:17:34,850
But apps will know that data and Spotify's

2139
01:17:34,850 --> 01:17:37,210
advertisers will be asking and I'm, I'm, I'm

2140
01:17:37,210 --> 01:17:39,630
guessing now, but I bet you they're saying,

2141
01:17:39,710 --> 01:17:41,190
uh, yeah, people are skipping it.

2142
01:17:41,390 --> 01:17:44,690
Now I did a test, a podcast movement

2143
01:17:44,690 --> 01:17:46,410
in a room, you know, with Rob Walsh,

2144
01:17:46,550 --> 01:17:47,970
you and me and him went head to

2145
01:17:47,970 --> 01:17:48,150
head.

2146
01:17:48,490 --> 01:17:50,970
And I said, okay, Rob, you're selling advertising.

2147
01:17:50,970 --> 01:17:53,490
Can you tell me how long did somebody

2148
01:17:53,490 --> 01:17:54,470
listen to that third ad?

2149
01:17:54,510 --> 01:17:55,150
He couldn't tell me.

2150
01:17:55,190 --> 01:17:57,190
He has no concept of that information.

2151
01:17:57,990 --> 01:17:59,190
So then I asked the room, put your

2152
01:17:59,190 --> 01:17:59,630
hand up.

2153
01:17:59,630 --> 01:18:01,290
If you skip ads, the whole room, put

2154
01:18:01,290 --> 01:18:01,870
their hands up.

2155
01:18:02,230 --> 01:18:04,970
So the reality is no one's asking the

2156
01:18:04,970 --> 01:18:06,970
users whether they're skipping the ads.

2157
01:18:07,050 --> 01:18:08,230
They're not getting to that point.

2158
01:18:08,790 --> 01:18:10,970
They're just taking the belief system.

2159
01:18:11,490 --> 01:18:13,550
And, and James was quoting a company who

2160
01:18:13,550 --> 01:18:16,550
was fundamentally, it was in their interest to

2161
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:18,290
not say people skip ads because they were

2162
01:18:18,290 --> 01:18:18,970
an ad company.

2163
01:18:18,970 --> 01:18:21,010
So of course they're going to tell you

2164
01:18:21,010 --> 01:18:22,210
that no one's skipping ads.

2165
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:24,970
It's, it's, you know, it's obvious they're not

2166
01:18:24,970 --> 01:18:26,390
going to come out with another report.

2167
01:18:27,170 --> 01:18:28,950
Well, his, his other point, his other point

2168
01:18:28,950 --> 01:18:32,510
was that we know that podcast advertising is

2169
01:18:32,510 --> 01:18:33,910
effective in, in both.

2170
01:18:34,110 --> 01:18:34,410
I see.

2171
01:18:34,510 --> 01:18:36,030
The thing is, both of those things can

2172
01:18:36,030 --> 01:18:37,310
be true at the same time.

2173
01:18:37,730 --> 01:18:38,810
People can be skipping.

2174
01:18:39,030 --> 01:18:43,150
People can skip ads and the, and podcast

2175
01:18:43,150 --> 01:18:45,550
advertising can be effective when it's heard.

2176
01:18:45,830 --> 01:18:49,150
The problem is you, they're not, they're not

2177
01:18:49,150 --> 01:18:49,770
connected.

2178
01:18:50,030 --> 01:18:52,590
You know, if the, Alex has a good

2179
01:18:52,590 --> 01:18:54,610
point in the boardroom, he says that, you

2180
01:18:54,610 --> 01:18:56,130
know, if people don't, if people didn't skip

2181
01:18:56,130 --> 01:18:57,710
ads, YouTube wouldn't have a skip button.

2182
01:18:57,950 --> 01:19:00,750
And that's, that's the truth because you know,

2183
01:19:00,790 --> 01:19:03,030
the thing is, it's got unskippable ads now

2184
01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:03,330
unskippable.

2185
01:19:04,050 --> 01:19:04,590
That's right.

2186
01:19:04,710 --> 01:19:07,790
The, the, so we, we had a recent

2187
01:19:07,790 --> 01:19:08,510
experience.

2188
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:12,050
We ended up with who we, we bought,

2189
01:19:12,270 --> 01:19:15,190
we had to get Hulu, which I've haven't

2190
01:19:15,190 --> 01:19:15,750
had in years.

2191
01:19:15,750 --> 01:19:18,270
We had to buy a Hulu subscription to

2192
01:19:18,270 --> 01:19:20,830
watch one movie that was only on that.

2193
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:22,850
And it was like an exclusive.

2194
01:19:23,570 --> 01:19:25,010
And so we got, I was like, you

2195
01:19:25,010 --> 01:19:26,050
know, I really don't want to pay for

2196
01:19:26,050 --> 01:19:26,410
Hulu.

2197
01:19:26,590 --> 01:19:28,270
We never watch anything on this, on this

2198
01:19:28,270 --> 01:19:28,610
platform.

2199
01:19:28,610 --> 01:19:31,410
So I'll just get the most cheap option

2200
01:19:31,410 --> 01:19:31,910
there is.

2201
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:32,750
And it had ads.

2202
01:19:33,210 --> 01:19:36,430
Now I haven't, I haven't seen ads on

2203
01:19:36,430 --> 01:19:38,630
a streaming platform in years.

2204
01:19:39,170 --> 01:19:41,950
And I don't watch broadcast or cable television.

2205
01:19:42,050 --> 01:19:44,150
I haven't had a cable subscription, a cable

2206
01:19:44,150 --> 01:19:46,910
television subscription in probably 15 years.

2207
01:19:47,790 --> 01:19:49,710
We, we got rid of cable TV in

2208
01:19:49,710 --> 01:19:51,390
our house when we started homeschooling our kids,

2209
01:19:51,410 --> 01:19:52,710
cause it was a huge distraction.

2210
01:19:53,390 --> 01:19:57,790
But we, we, so we got this Hulu

2211
01:19:57,790 --> 01:19:59,950
subscription and it was like, I think like

2212
01:19:59,950 --> 01:20:01,570
nine bucks a month or something in like

2213
01:20:01,570 --> 01:20:03,570
$20 was the ad free version.

2214
01:20:04,130 --> 01:20:05,210
And I'm like, I'll just do the cheap

2215
01:20:05,210 --> 01:20:05,370
one.

2216
01:20:05,570 --> 01:20:07,850
So we had, we have it and we

2217
01:20:07,850 --> 01:20:08,810
watched that movie.

2218
01:20:09,210 --> 01:20:12,570
And so then a few nights ago, my

2219
01:20:12,570 --> 01:20:15,810
daughter, we wanted her to see the BBC

2220
01:20:15,810 --> 01:20:18,730
Sherlock series with a Benedict Cumberbatch.

2221
01:20:19,130 --> 01:20:22,190
And so we were like, we started looking

2222
01:20:22,190 --> 01:20:23,510
for it and it was like, Oh, it's

2223
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:23,930
on Hulu.

2224
01:20:24,110 --> 01:20:25,430
Okay, well we'll just watch it cause we

2225
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:27,110
have this Hulu subscription until the end of

2226
01:20:27,110 --> 01:20:27,550
the month.

2227
01:20:28,370 --> 01:20:32,770
I'm telling you the advertising is brutal.

2228
01:20:33,450 --> 01:20:36,890
It's every 10 minutes, three in a row,

2229
01:20:37,110 --> 01:20:39,390
three in a row, a minute and a

2230
01:20:39,390 --> 01:20:40,230
half of ads.

2231
01:20:40,290 --> 01:20:43,210
Every 10, every eight to 10 minutes.

2232
01:20:43,530 --> 01:20:47,950
And the ads, the ads are, are the

2233
01:20:47,950 --> 01:20:51,850
most bargain basement companies I've never heard of.

2234
01:20:52,450 --> 01:20:54,850
It's, it's like, it's crap.

2235
01:20:55,090 --> 01:20:57,590
It's bottom feeder, crap, bottom feeder, crap.

2236
01:20:57,710 --> 01:20:58,270
That's what you get.

2237
01:20:58,290 --> 01:21:00,750
Of course it's bottom feeder crap.

2238
01:21:00,870 --> 01:21:04,130
And I'm telling, I'm like, to me, what

2239
01:21:04,130 --> 01:21:05,530
I said, what I told her last night

2240
01:21:05,530 --> 01:21:08,130
is I'm, I'm going to go before.

2241
01:21:08,330 --> 01:21:10,130
We're not watching another episode.

2242
01:21:10,130 --> 01:21:11,390
We made it through two seasons.

2243
01:21:11,510 --> 01:21:14,650
We're not, I'm not watching another episode of

2244
01:21:14,650 --> 01:21:16,970
this on this platform.

2245
01:21:17,110 --> 01:21:19,970
I'm going to go and buy the, buy

2246
01:21:19,970 --> 01:21:22,870
the next season for 15 bucks off Amazon

2247
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:26,950
prime because I cannot tolerate this advertising garbage.

2248
01:21:27,150 --> 01:21:29,530
And I think, I think the anti-advertising

2249
01:21:29,530 --> 01:21:33,010
thing is a social movement in the same

2250
01:21:33,010 --> 01:21:38,310
way that people stopped smoking is a social

2251
01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:39,830
movement or alcohol.

2252
01:21:39,830 --> 01:21:43,630
People are reducing their alcohol consumption is a,

2253
01:21:43,630 --> 01:21:44,710
is a social movement.

2254
01:21:44,770 --> 01:21:46,510
You can't, you don't really know.

2255
01:21:46,990 --> 01:21:50,430
You can't find like the organic ground zero

2256
01:21:50,430 --> 01:21:51,250
of these things.

2257
01:21:51,250 --> 01:21:52,350
It's just a movement.

2258
01:21:52,750 --> 01:21:55,350
And I don't think the tolerance for advertising

2259
01:21:55,350 --> 01:21:56,550
is going to stay.

2260
01:21:56,730 --> 01:21:58,570
I think, I think they're going to, people

2261
01:21:58,570 --> 01:22:00,330
will just turn off the content.

2262
01:22:00,670 --> 01:22:03,630
And therein lies the marketing problem, Sam, because

2263
01:22:03,630 --> 01:22:06,290
of course there is no marketing for what

2264
01:22:06,290 --> 01:22:06,810
we're doing.

2265
01:22:06,810 --> 01:22:10,090
The marketing is all done by the advertising

2266
01:22:10,090 --> 01:22:10,730
industry.

2267
01:22:10,930 --> 01:22:13,350
They are, they have the money, they have

2268
01:22:13,350 --> 01:22:16,810
the, the voice, they have all the different

2269
01:22:16,810 --> 01:22:20,070
pieces that you need to talk about podcasting

2270
01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:20,650
in general.

2271
01:22:20,650 --> 01:22:23,170
They're the ones that have screwed up this

2272
01:22:23,170 --> 01:22:25,110
whole video conversation.

2273
01:22:25,430 --> 01:22:29,330
It's always about the marketing people and they

2274
01:22:29,330 --> 01:22:32,030
have no benefit in value for value.

2275
01:22:32,130 --> 01:22:34,950
I mean, yeah, you have, we've talked about

2276
01:22:34,950 --> 01:22:35,230
this.

2277
01:22:35,230 --> 01:22:36,630
There's, there's different models.

2278
01:22:36,990 --> 01:22:39,310
I got to tell you, in 2006, I

2279
01:22:39,310 --> 01:22:40,730
started a company and I thought we would

2280
01:22:40,730 --> 01:22:42,190
change the advertising business.

2281
01:22:42,410 --> 01:22:43,590
And boy, was I wrong.

2282
01:22:44,050 --> 01:22:45,570
You can't change those fuckers.

2283
01:22:46,170 --> 01:22:46,730
Pardon my French.

2284
01:22:47,470 --> 01:22:49,790
They are stuck in their ways and they're

2285
01:22:49,790 --> 01:22:50,350
afraid.

2286
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:51,690
They are afraid.

2287
01:22:51,910 --> 01:22:52,730
They are afraid.

2288
01:22:53,230 --> 01:22:56,010
They're afraid to try anything new because it

2289
01:22:56,010 --> 01:22:57,050
can screw stuff up.

2290
01:22:57,110 --> 01:22:58,170
They can lose clients.

2291
01:22:58,330 --> 01:23:01,010
It's just, and honestly, I'm okay.

2292
01:23:01,090 --> 01:23:04,510
That's why I focus on hyperlocal, hyperlocal value

2293
01:23:04,510 --> 01:23:05,010
for value.

2294
01:23:05,010 --> 01:23:10,990
Whether it's by geographic location or, um, location

2295
01:23:10,990 --> 01:23:14,450
of interest works and no one's going to

2296
01:23:14,450 --> 01:23:17,010
be a millionaire, but everybody gets paid and

2297
01:23:17,010 --> 01:23:18,770
everybody goes home with a smile on their

2298
01:23:18,770 --> 01:23:19,130
face.

2299
01:23:19,890 --> 01:23:22,350
And if that's the future for me, if

2300
01:23:22,350 --> 01:23:26,110
I saw ads on Hulu for businesses around

2301
01:23:26,110 --> 01:23:28,450
me, I would, I would be okay with

2302
01:23:28,450 --> 01:23:28,630
it.

2303
01:23:28,830 --> 01:23:31,190
But if I watch one more grammarly ad,

2304
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:33,170
I'm gonna, I'm gonna scream.

2305
01:23:33,750 --> 01:23:36,110
I mean, I've literally seen 40 of them

2306
01:23:36,110 --> 01:23:39,390
in the last four days and it really

2307
01:23:39,390 --> 01:23:40,950
has no relevance to my life.

2308
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:42,410
It just makes me want to tear my

2309
01:23:42,410 --> 01:23:42,890
hair out.

2310
01:23:43,410 --> 01:23:45,050
But if I saw an ad for, you

2311
01:23:45,050 --> 01:23:47,790
know, a company here in Birmingham, that might

2312
01:23:47,790 --> 01:23:48,950
at least be interesting.

2313
01:23:49,690 --> 01:23:51,410
Dave, I got to move us along because,

2314
01:23:51,490 --> 01:23:53,110
uh, you know, you've gotten out.

2315
01:23:53,290 --> 01:23:54,010
I've gotten out.

2316
01:23:54,170 --> 01:23:55,690
We need speaking of value for value.

2317
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:57,150
I think we should thank some people who

2318
01:23:57,150 --> 01:24:00,070
have been supporting the podcast index and the

2319
01:24:00,070 --> 01:24:00,630
board meeting.

2320
01:24:01,650 --> 01:24:02,550
Lucky for you.

2321
01:24:02,550 --> 01:24:04,710
I had a sheet of paper.

2322
01:24:04,910 --> 01:24:05,610
Well, how about that?

2323
01:24:05,830 --> 01:24:11,590
Uh, what I will do also, uh, let

2324
01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:13,450
me, I just screwed up my booster, my,

2325
01:24:13,470 --> 01:24:14,450
my helipad here.

2326
01:24:14,570 --> 01:24:16,250
Uh, let me thank the people who've boosted

2327
01:24:16,250 --> 01:24:18,470
in while we are doing this live as

2328
01:24:18,470 --> 01:24:20,790
I speak a little longer and draw it

2329
01:24:20,790 --> 01:24:23,770
out as my screen starts to draw.

2330
01:24:23,870 --> 01:24:24,250
There we are.

2331
01:24:24,850 --> 01:24:25,630
Uh, here we go.

2332
01:24:25,670 --> 01:24:26,990
One, two, three, four from dreads.

2333
01:24:26,990 --> 01:24:29,150
Scott from, uh, pod verse.

2334
01:24:29,490 --> 01:24:31,650
He says regarding getting the word out, maybe

2335
01:24:31,650 --> 01:24:33,250
we bring into the keeper to put together

2336
01:24:33,250 --> 01:24:34,010
a marketing plan.

2337
01:24:34,030 --> 01:24:34,890
Just spit balling.

2338
01:24:34,950 --> 01:24:35,390
Yeah.

2339
01:24:35,510 --> 01:24:38,470
The problem is, uh, we have no marketing

2340
01:24:38,470 --> 01:24:38,910
department.

2341
01:24:38,910 --> 01:24:40,610
We have no marketing money.

2342
01:24:41,010 --> 01:24:42,870
Uh, we have no marketing time.

2343
01:24:43,750 --> 01:24:46,090
Um, that's, and we suck at it and

2344
01:24:46,090 --> 01:24:46,730
we suck at it.

2345
01:24:47,170 --> 01:24:50,350
Uh, and Dreb comes in with another one,

2346
01:24:50,390 --> 01:24:52,290
two, three, four sats, banana splits.

2347
01:24:52,290 --> 01:24:54,670
He says with little banana emoji.

2348
01:24:54,670 --> 01:24:55,090
Thank you.

2349
01:24:55,090 --> 01:24:56,510
Stephen B with a hundred and then a

2350
01:24:56,510 --> 01:24:59,150
thousand sats testing boost from Curio caster.

2351
01:24:59,290 --> 01:24:59,970
See if they come through.

2352
01:25:00,010 --> 01:25:02,270
And I posted those in the boardroom and

2353
01:25:02,270 --> 01:25:02,650
they did.

2354
01:25:02,790 --> 01:25:04,490
And I also posted the, uh, the split

2355
01:25:04,490 --> 01:25:06,350
going into my, uh, strike wallet.

2356
01:25:06,410 --> 01:25:07,150
So congratulations.

2357
01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:07,750
That works.

2358
01:25:07,870 --> 01:25:08,330
Pod two.

2359
01:25:08,450 --> 01:25:10,190
There's Russell 3333.

2360
01:25:10,830 --> 01:25:12,070
SOA is not secure.

2361
01:25:12,150 --> 01:25:14,090
You can still access the audio file in

2362
01:25:14,090 --> 01:25:14,730
the RSS.

2363
01:25:15,090 --> 01:25:16,750
Yes, we are aware.

2364
01:25:17,490 --> 01:25:17,670
Mm.

2365
01:25:17,810 --> 01:25:19,490
Cole McCormick, 1111.

2366
01:25:19,930 --> 01:25:21,950
I made a tutorial video for showing people

2367
01:25:21,950 --> 01:25:23,450
how to go live using pod home.

2368
01:25:23,450 --> 01:25:27,010
Check out podcast, Normie YouTube channel, and there's

2369
01:25:27,010 --> 01:25:27,690
a dichotomy.

2370
01:25:28,370 --> 01:25:29,490
Learn how to do it on YouTube.

2371
01:25:30,250 --> 01:25:32,410
Uh, I have concepts of a plan to

2372
01:25:32,410 --> 01:25:34,010
go live more often for my podcast.

2373
01:25:34,170 --> 01:25:35,610
More people just need to do it.

2374
01:25:35,630 --> 01:25:36,190
I agree.

2375
01:25:37,410 --> 01:25:38,190
So I'll do it.

2376
01:25:38,250 --> 01:25:39,010
Salty crayon.

2377
01:25:39,070 --> 01:25:39,750
One, two, three, four.

2378
01:25:39,810 --> 01:25:42,370
Howdy Dave and Adam Dave named this Sunday's

2379
01:25:42,370 --> 01:25:44,270
episode beef milkshake.

2380
01:25:44,510 --> 01:25:45,350
I got it from you.

2381
01:25:45,410 --> 01:25:47,950
It's a concoction of new and classic tracks.

2382
01:25:48,270 --> 01:25:49,490
Just the beefy ones.

2383
01:25:49,650 --> 01:25:50,790
He's the pod hobbyist.

2384
01:25:50,890 --> 01:25:51,810
Go podcasting.

2385
01:25:51,990 --> 01:25:52,930
I got it from you.

2386
01:25:52,930 --> 01:25:53,290
Okay.

2387
01:25:53,550 --> 01:25:55,710
And there's pod two, again, coming in from

2388
01:25:55,710 --> 01:25:57,050
fountain with a thousand sets.

2389
01:25:57,270 --> 01:26:00,010
Drn one uses ice cast pod two offers

2390
01:26:00,010 --> 01:26:02,090
radio stations and ice cast server with a

2391
01:26:02,090 --> 01:26:02,810
radio package.

2392
01:26:02,890 --> 01:26:05,230
The issue is music licensing, which the only

2393
01:26:05,230 --> 01:26:07,090
platform that has solved that as live tricks,

2394
01:26:07,230 --> 01:26:08,390
three 65 at the moment.

2395
01:26:08,390 --> 01:26:08,710
Yes.

2396
01:26:09,230 --> 01:26:12,190
Uh, we are also launching our YP directory,

2397
01:26:12,190 --> 01:26:14,150
which will be open and only ice cast

2398
01:26:14,150 --> 01:26:15,910
servers have that built in.

2399
01:26:15,910 --> 01:26:17,270
Uh, shout cast streams.

2400
01:26:17,270 --> 01:26:19,450
Can't add a YP directory for my chats

2401
01:26:19,450 --> 01:26:20,950
with the team at shout cast.

2402
01:26:20,950 --> 01:26:24,690
Drn one gets 120,000 listeners online each

2403
01:26:24,690 --> 01:26:26,410
month by our app and by third-party

2404
01:26:26,410 --> 01:26:26,810
apps.

2405
01:26:27,210 --> 01:26:29,670
So there's definitely stuff working.

2406
01:26:30,190 --> 01:26:30,790
Nice.

2407
01:26:31,510 --> 01:26:34,030
1776 freedom boost from Lyceum coming in from

2408
01:26:34,030 --> 01:26:34,670
true fans.

2409
01:26:34,770 --> 01:26:36,270
Go podcasting with true fans.

2410
01:26:36,390 --> 01:26:38,050
Comment with a Liberty boost of 1776.

2411
01:26:38,910 --> 01:26:42,370
Satoshi's best premises says Martin Linda's cog is

2412
01:26:42,370 --> 01:26:43,050
lightning address.

2413
01:26:43,230 --> 01:26:44,710
Lyceum at true fans.

2414
01:26:44,950 --> 01:26:45,330
Dot FM.

2415
01:26:45,850 --> 01:26:47,550
Nah, there's tone record.

2416
01:26:48,190 --> 01:26:49,630
44, 44 boosting.

2417
01:26:49,630 --> 01:26:51,910
The can't ban RSS reminder.

2418
01:26:52,130 --> 01:26:52,430
Indeed.

2419
01:26:53,770 --> 01:26:55,990
Um, there's Russell again with a thousand sats

2420
01:26:55,990 --> 01:26:56,470
in Australia.

2421
01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:58,330
We have doc, uh, dry July.

2422
01:26:59,770 --> 01:27:02,170
Oh, well, that's because it's cold.

2423
01:27:02,290 --> 01:27:03,850
You're upside down world, man.

2424
01:27:03,930 --> 01:27:04,810
Upside down world.

2425
01:27:04,910 --> 01:27:05,990
Well, we, we do it in January.

2426
01:27:05,990 --> 01:27:06,430
That's it.

2427
01:27:06,450 --> 01:27:07,470
I hit the delimiter Dave.

2428
01:27:07,530 --> 01:27:08,510
What do you have on your list?

2429
01:27:08,930 --> 01:27:10,150
I'm going to do these in reverse.

2430
01:27:10,230 --> 01:27:11,490
I'm going to do monthly's first.

2431
01:27:11,570 --> 01:27:14,490
We've got, uh, Terry Keller, $5.

2432
01:27:14,510 --> 01:27:15,230
Thank you, Terry.

2433
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:17,010
Uh, silicone florist, $10.

2434
01:27:17,450 --> 01:27:19,010
Chris Cowan, $5.

2435
01:27:19,350 --> 01:27:21,290
Yaron Rosenstein, $1.

2436
01:27:21,770 --> 01:27:22,570
Derek J.

2437
01:27:22,690 --> 01:27:23,530
Viscar, $21.

2438
01:27:24,050 --> 01:27:24,390
Nice.

2439
01:27:24,590 --> 01:27:27,010
Paul Saltzman, $22 and 22 cents.

2440
01:27:27,110 --> 01:27:27,490
Thank you, Paul.

2441
01:27:28,230 --> 01:27:29,670
Damon Castlejack, $15.

2442
01:27:30,130 --> 01:27:31,310
Jeremy Gerds, $5.

2443
01:27:32,110 --> 01:27:33,210
Gene Liverman, $5.

2444
01:27:33,550 --> 01:27:35,570
Michael Hall, $5 and 50 cents.

2445
01:27:36,090 --> 01:27:38,710
New media productions, $30 and Jean.

2446
01:27:39,130 --> 01:27:40,670
Oh, so there's Jean Liverman again with another

2447
01:27:40,670 --> 01:27:41,010
$5.

2448
01:27:41,330 --> 01:27:41,770
Thank you.

2449
01:27:42,510 --> 01:27:43,850
Timothy Voice, $10.

2450
01:27:44,730 --> 01:27:46,690
And, uh, that's our PayPal's.

2451
01:27:46,890 --> 01:27:48,330
And we thank you all very much for

2452
01:27:48,330 --> 01:27:50,110
the, for the Fiat fund coupons.

2453
01:27:50,150 --> 01:27:51,230
That's highly appreciated.

2454
01:27:51,950 --> 01:27:54,670
We've got Jean Bean, 22, 22.

2455
01:27:54,770 --> 01:27:56,410
He says, I love the idea of the

2456
01:27:56,410 --> 01:27:57,030
split box.

2457
01:27:57,190 --> 01:27:57,610
Yes.

2458
01:27:58,650 --> 01:27:59,090
Yeah.

2459
01:27:59,090 --> 01:28:00,730
There's a lot of work going on behind

2460
01:28:00,730 --> 01:28:01,370
the scenes.

2461
01:28:02,410 --> 01:28:03,630
And I don't understand.

2462
01:28:03,790 --> 01:28:04,930
I've lost track.

2463
01:28:05,010 --> 01:28:06,330
I'm like, I don't get it anymore.

2464
01:28:06,430 --> 01:28:06,770
Okay.

2465
01:28:06,890 --> 01:28:09,290
I'll just wait until, wait until when sad

2466
01:28:09,290 --> 01:28:10,610
start showing up on my wallet.

2467
01:28:10,650 --> 01:28:11,750
It's time to say, Hey, start showing up

2468
01:28:11,750 --> 01:28:11,850
on my wallet.

2469
01:28:11,850 --> 01:28:12,250
Stephen B.

2470
01:28:12,370 --> 01:28:13,110
How does it work?

2471
01:28:14,330 --> 01:28:17,330
Gene Everett, Satchel, Richards, one, one, one, one.

2472
01:28:17,470 --> 01:28:21,290
He just says, boost, boost away, brother, uh,

2473
01:28:21,290 --> 01:28:22,790
Jean being again, he says, I agree with

2474
01:28:22,790 --> 01:28:23,810
dad, 22, 22.

2475
01:28:23,950 --> 01:28:24,970
He says, I agree with day that we're

2476
01:28:24,970 --> 01:28:27,110
not ready for LLM based fishing combined with

2477
01:28:27,110 --> 01:28:28,490
compromised email accounts.

2478
01:28:28,670 --> 01:28:29,970
That's kind of terrifying.

2479
01:28:29,970 --> 01:28:31,010
If you really think about it.

2480
01:28:31,330 --> 01:28:31,710
Yeah.

2481
01:28:32,290 --> 01:28:32,670
Agreed.

2482
01:28:33,490 --> 01:28:36,850
Uh, and the delimiter commissioner blogger, 14, 14,

2483
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:39,730
16, these backs, 14, six, 40 sas through

2484
01:28:39,730 --> 01:28:40,130
fountain.

2485
01:28:40,170 --> 01:28:42,290
He says, how do you Dave and Adam?

2486
01:28:42,430 --> 01:28:45,490
I'm not sure under what circumstances audio served

2487
01:28:45,490 --> 01:28:47,730
via RSS feed is not a podcast.

2488
01:28:47,750 --> 01:28:52,290
For example, if is soliloquy a podcast is

2489
01:28:52,290 --> 01:28:55,670
soliloquy as a type of monologue revealing innermost

2490
01:28:55,670 --> 01:28:57,950
feelings or ideas to the audience.

2491
01:28:58,050 --> 01:29:01,590
If yes, then I recommend to one from

2492
01:29:01,590 --> 01:29:04,590
Darren O'Neill with a strange URL, ran

2493
01:29:04,590 --> 01:29:06,870
dumb thoughts.com and one from a, from

2494
01:29:06,870 --> 01:29:10,050
Larry Blatner about fighting commies in the USA

2495
01:29:10,730 --> 01:29:12,770
called thatlarryshow.com.

2496
01:29:12,830 --> 01:29:13,810
Yo, CSB.

2497
01:29:14,110 --> 01:29:14,910
Thank you, CSB.

2498
01:29:14,970 --> 01:29:17,550
CSB always coming in with the boost for

2499
01:29:17,550 --> 01:29:18,190
the other shows.

2500
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:18,990
I love that.

2501
01:29:19,570 --> 01:29:21,250
And if you want to support the podcast

2502
01:29:21,250 --> 01:29:24,350
index, which is where the money really goes,

2503
01:29:24,370 --> 01:29:26,090
and of course we do stack sats on

2504
01:29:26,090 --> 01:29:28,570
our node for liquidity, those of you with

2505
01:29:28,570 --> 01:29:31,910
an Albi hub, Albi hub is not easy

2506
01:29:31,910 --> 01:29:35,510
to open a channel to, and because they

2507
01:29:35,510 --> 01:29:38,370
basically have an address of 0.0.0

2508
01:29:38,370 --> 01:29:42,650
.0, so I'm not quite sure how we

2509
01:29:42,650 --> 01:29:44,630
can, if we should be solving that or

2510
01:29:44,630 --> 01:29:47,530
not, but I know there's a lot of

2511
01:29:47,530 --> 01:29:48,650
- Surely there's a way.

2512
01:29:48,970 --> 01:29:50,290
There's a, you'd think.

2513
01:29:50,510 --> 01:29:51,990
I mean, you can open up an outgoing

2514
01:29:51,990 --> 01:29:55,290
to us, for example, and you could route

2515
01:29:55,290 --> 01:29:57,590
sats around it, through it to have inbound,

2516
01:29:58,390 --> 01:29:59,390
but I'm not sure.

2517
01:29:59,510 --> 01:30:02,330
Boomi, I think, is working with people.

2518
01:30:02,330 --> 01:30:03,670
That's kind of the whole idea of an

2519
01:30:03,670 --> 01:30:06,610
LSP is you get one channel, but then

2520
01:30:06,610 --> 01:30:08,850
people run out of these channels quickly because

2521
01:30:08,850 --> 01:30:12,170
it's like a million sats, which is a

2522
01:30:12,170 --> 01:30:16,010
lot of money to open that up.

2523
01:30:16,290 --> 01:30:18,710
So it's, anyway, for those of you who

2524
01:30:18,710 --> 01:30:21,130
have nodes that need liquidity, that's what we're

2525
01:30:21,130 --> 01:30:21,570
here for.

2526
01:30:21,870 --> 01:30:23,970
Go to podcastindex.org, scroll down to the

2527
01:30:23,970 --> 01:30:24,150
bottom.

2528
01:30:24,270 --> 01:30:25,830
There is a red donate button.

2529
01:30:25,890 --> 01:30:28,330
You hit that, you get our PayPal.

2530
01:30:28,590 --> 01:30:30,110
You can always support us through that.

2531
01:30:30,970 --> 01:30:33,050
And Sam, I feel like we've only scratched

2532
01:30:33,050 --> 01:30:36,470
the surface today of true fans and all

2533
01:30:36,470 --> 01:30:37,830
the things you're doing, but I'm sure you

2534
01:30:37,830 --> 01:30:41,790
will post another eight section on the Mastodon

2535
01:30:41,790 --> 01:30:42,550
so we can catch up.

2536
01:30:42,930 --> 01:30:44,830
And I'll send you more emails, don't worry.

2537
01:30:45,750 --> 01:30:46,710
I like your emails.

2538
01:30:47,330 --> 01:30:49,830
I like them because I have to put

2539
01:30:49,830 --> 01:30:51,930
them aside and then sit down and read

2540
01:30:51,930 --> 01:30:52,150
them.

2541
01:30:52,190 --> 01:30:54,510
Like, okay, what is Sam doing here?

2542
01:30:54,570 --> 01:30:56,550
I've got to understand, what is he into?

2543
01:30:57,090 --> 01:30:59,010
What I like is that you get five

2544
01:30:59,010 --> 01:31:01,610
emails saying, I need this, I need that.

2545
01:31:01,710 --> 01:31:02,650
Can you please do this?

2546
01:31:02,710 --> 01:31:03,410
Can you please do that?

2547
01:31:03,470 --> 01:31:04,730
And then I get a Sam email and

2548
01:31:04,730 --> 01:31:05,390
I'm like, ah.

2549
01:31:05,930 --> 01:31:07,430
I just sit back and read.

2550
01:31:07,430 --> 01:31:08,350
Let me just read.

2551
01:31:08,650 --> 01:31:09,870
Yeah, let me read this.

2552
01:31:10,170 --> 01:31:12,210
Followed by a Julie Costello tome.

2553
01:31:12,350 --> 01:31:13,730
And it's just, my day is complete.

2554
01:31:14,230 --> 01:31:15,010
My day is complete.

2555
01:31:15,930 --> 01:31:17,310
Hey, Music Mama, we love you.

2556
01:31:17,630 --> 01:31:18,670
And we love you, Boardroom.

2557
01:31:18,770 --> 01:31:19,610
Thank you for being here.

2558
01:31:19,710 --> 01:31:20,670
Thank you for experimenting.

2559
01:31:20,990 --> 01:31:22,290
Thank you for running with scissors.

2560
01:31:22,510 --> 01:31:24,110
Sam, thank you so much, man, for all

2561
01:31:24,110 --> 01:31:24,490
you do.

2562
01:31:24,970 --> 01:31:27,270
You are pushing real hard and it's very

2563
01:31:27,270 --> 01:31:28,130
much appreciated.

2564
01:31:28,770 --> 01:31:29,750
Thank you very much.

2565
01:31:29,850 --> 01:31:30,750
I know, I love doing it.

2566
01:31:30,850 --> 01:31:31,850
So yeah, it's good fun.

2567
01:31:32,230 --> 01:31:33,990
All right, Brother Dave, have a great weekend.

2568
01:31:34,730 --> 01:31:35,210
You too, man.

2569
01:31:35,310 --> 01:31:37,550
All right, everybody, that concludes our board meeting

2570
01:31:37,550 --> 01:31:38,050
for today.

2571
01:31:38,170 --> 01:31:40,370
We will, of course, return with another Podcasting

2572
01:31:40,370 --> 01:31:41,930
2.0 board meeting next Friday.

2573
01:31:42,350 --> 01:31:43,070
We'll see you then.

2574
01:31:43,230 --> 01:31:44,970
Until then, go podcasting.

2575
01:31:47,470 --> 01:31:59,410
♪♪ Why's

2576
01:31:59,410 --> 01:32:00,050
that so cool?

2577
01:32:00,830 --> 01:32:04,950
You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0.

2578
01:32:05,050 --> 01:32:08,730
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

2579
01:32:09,230 --> 01:32:10,670
Go podcasting!

2580
01:32:11,030 --> 01:32:13,610
The Southeast is gonna be shut down.