Episode 157: BEP5

0:00 Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for December 1 2023, episode 157 Five Hello everybody, welcome to podcasting 2.0 Your weekly board meeting everything that's going on in podcasting. We are the current state of the art. This is the only boardroom that skips the ads for you automatically. Yes, everything happening in podcast index.org with a namespace and podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here the heart of the Texas Hill Country out in Alabama, the man who can roll your pod smoother and flatter than anyone say hello to my friend on the other end. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. I'm rolling. We're rolling in pod. Our feed now has a pod roll.

0:46 Dave Jones: Oh, you put one in? Well, I Adam Curry: Stephen B added it to sovereign feeds. And I just added it and I need to ask you if because I put in of course, I put in our prep shows which is new media show and podcast weekly review. I put in no way no agenda since you know it's a big promoter of the podcasting tomorrow. Do you have any, anything you'd like on the pod roll? Dave Jones: Gosh, I have lots of things I would like on the I Adam Curry: mean, I can put in a million it just hit Add and keep and you know what's cool about it. You hit Add and it looks up in the end. I just love these little things. It looks up in the index. Just type in the podcast name it shows up you click Done. You don't have to do anything with RSS feeds. You just look it up. Click on it done.

1:34 Dave Jones: It's beautiful. Well, let me look let me go inspect the said pod roll and see what see what you got in there. You got like Adam Curry: looking at our feed. Yeah, we're gonna feed that should be in the feed. I put it in the feed. Dave Jones: Sorry, I just saw that. I like looking in the feed every now and then because it's entertaining. Because you do things in here that I don't know about. Like what did I do? Like? Well, you did you have these blocks in here. Oh block. Apple block Spotify block Amazon. Adam Curry: Yeah. How well did that work as you can tell, but Apple just took our feet anyway. That really works. They don't Dave Jones: even honor their own block tag. So why would they honor anybody? Yes, true. I don't see the pod roll where?

2:21 Oh, wait. Adam Curry: Thanks, Steven. B. You are You are the man you are the master you are the man I love you Dave Jones: bro knows yet. Yeah, he only got three and then we need to base that up. Yeah, Adam Curry: I mean, he didn't eat beef. Beef. Shake that up. Dave Jones: I mean, like, at least me know. What's the music and music show? Like? Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, this grandpa hadn't even hadn't even considered that. I mean, I could put all my shows in there but I put three in I figured you might have one but if you want me to add Bookstagram ball Okay, since you twist my arm Dave Jones: yet, but this your grandma wants to get started. Go to pod roll.

3:03 Adam Curry: Oh, second. Oh, that show in front needs to go to are you doing Dave Jones: this live? Are you adding this line? He's sticking it in LA Can I Adam Curry: do that? Baby. I'm sticking it in live. Although that's dangerous. Something just happened here. Which is not good. I don't know. Yeah. Come on, man. Come on. Let me do it. sink in the feed sink in the feed show info pod roll. There it is three, add podcast, boom. Booster. Booster. We're gonna send Dave Jones: her another it's gonna web hook it and you're gonna send another live to everybody, which is fine, because you just get is gonna be like, everyone's gonna get double notified. Okay, so really seriously, you need to listen to this. Okay, that Adam Curry: double notification everybody.

3:47 Dave Jones: Let me refresh in there, that there. That's what a beautiful Adam Curry: system. Dave Jones: Update a feed and it actually updated. Yes. Adam Curry: I want to get I want to thank the company ADIA for making all podcasts now value for value. I think that's fantastic. Great job. Dave Jones: I have no idea what you're talking about, oh, Adam Curry: audio is an app that uses AI. And when you subscribe to a podcast it it downloads the episode, then it uses AI to look for the ads and removes them for you. Which is all this which, which makes every single podcast value for value. Because if you come to the party guess I mean if you if you I mean if you want to support the podcast, you either don't use the audio app and listen to the ads or you don't care and you just haven't blocked it out. I mean, it's value for value. It's the same thing.

4:52 Dave Jones: It is I didn't know what the effort didn't realize what the name of this thing was. But that's Adam Curry: not the name of the app the the name But the app is something else. I think I actually got the app that works as advertised. And so a couple things about this. First of what is the name of this app? What isn't? I Dave Jones: mean, wait, you did my understanding was they did not. They're not doing this on podcast yet. They're only there are they're only doing it on like radio. Adam Curry: Yes. You've worked on the radio stuff. Correct. Okay. All right. Well, that was your test. That was my test. Well, there's a couple things with this app. So just briefly on this app, which now I can't read, is it called Audio missing? Look at my fader, I thought it was called faders. In a fader. Yeah. Maybe fade with a DI D, our fader. So first, I just want to say they have music shows in there. I'd like to know how you do that. fader? How are you playing licensed music in shows on your app? I'd like to know that right off the bat.

5:53 Unknown: I shows like these Adam Curry: are they have they have they could have? Well, they have something called Music casts. Earlier name the thought long and hard about it. Yeah, they have music casts. And they have DJs plans, licensed music. I would love to know how they do that. They got 90s. They got all kinds of stuff. So I'd really like to know how you're paying for the rights on that. But if there's anything wrong with this company, and I'm this app is that I don't understand how they're doing. I'd like to know that. I completely adore the fact that they have proven that you cannot monetize the network. This and this is no different. I have three apps here. Regular good old fashioned podcast apps, who allowed me to set a number of minutes to skip at the beginning of each podcast. It's this is not new. Just the fact that it's you know, I guess AI is new.

6:52 Dave Jones: What do I hear? Sorry, that's that was tapped on. Evidently, there's they're playing ice baby right now. Adam Curry: I don't know how they do that. Yes. Dave Jones: Yeah, good. But this this Adam Curry: is this is a very important development, because it shows that the end is here. There's been this unwritten agreement which by the way, all the time by I have to jump on Twitter, and defend podcast apps. Sam Sethi says I've set the time to 6:25am. local time. No, I haven't.

7:36 Dave Jones: In sovereignty, Adam Curry: I have I said it with a live Yeah, I said it properly. She talking about is Dave Jones: 12. One 625. Let me double check. 000 time, it's 625 UTC is what it said to her and yeah, Adam Curry: so isn't that correct? Yeah. Okay. Anyway. This was inevitable. It's just, um, I had this conversation I was being interviewed this morning, about advertising itself. The advertising is a race to the bottom, always on the internet, just looking banner ads, look at every other CPM. Because ultimately, there's no scarcity. There's no limitation on how many ads can run. So it's always going to run down to the lowest possible price. Always. And, and, you know, it's like the all the conversations now. Well, we all know, we kind of skipped over him. So these guys just making it easy. Yes. Yes, that's right. That's right. This is for ad inserts. You know, I think if you do something in the show, we're sponsored by that. That seems to be the only thing that will work. And I've always thought that was a good idea.

8:54 But I built a whole company trying to do that and still couldn't make it work. Dave Jones: If you can insert something somebody else can uninstall can can extract. Yeah, exactly. What's the opposite of insert? decirte somebody else can rip that out. Insert. Retract? Retract. Yeah, you can withdraw. Yes. That's so I had an interesting advertising. Sort of week this week. Oh. Well, I started. Here's a general problem I'm facing is that I've got so many podcasts. I can't listen to them all. Adam Curry: I mean, I'm here here. Yeah.

9:35 Dave Jones: I got 20 hours of podcast dropping in my play in my podcast app a week and of what's out, maybe get out of control. It's out of control. We are absolutely responsible for you know, with these two hour shows that we do weird when we are aggressive. Adam Curry: Good work. Good work, good work. Dave Jones: But like I've got so much I can't listen to it. So I've been so behind on like pod, pod news weekly review and all these like, I'm not just so far behind. So I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna catch up. And, and I was listening to last week's show of pod news weekly review. And they interviewed Lisa Jacobs from, like, add results or something like that. I get all these names mixed up. Yeah. Sounds right. Okay, so I just want I just want to start this by saying this is not an attack on Lisa at all.

10:30 I'm sure she's a she's a fine lady, but the advertising agency people. And this also includes Spotify. In a lady interviewed on the most recent, Adam Curry: you mentioned when she talks like this. Dave Jones: No, no, no, that's actually not it. Oh, get a decent microphone. Oh, my gosh. The audio is Adam Curry: that yes, there's that. Dave Jones: So you're you are the brand. You are the representative of an advertising agency that's focused on podcasting. And you sound like you're in can? Yeah, yes. You sound horrible. Like, I don't understand how they let that out. Microphones are not expensive. You should be handed a decent microphone and audio interface is the day that you sign up for this job.

11:25 Adam Curry: A pod my pod mic is all you need. It's got the processing you can stick your headphones and good to go. It's Dave Jones: perfect. The number of people I hear from advertising agencies and I listen to things like media roundtable which is Oxford road advertising agency now, they all sound horrible. They sound like their own the built in MacBook Air, Mike, it's it's so bad. Well, we've Adam Curry: had guests on this show where we had to go like what's wrong with you? Yeah, media Roundtable. I'm not so sure. Yeah. What's what really helped me? Don't just just don't do it. No, no, no, no, what helped me I got to subscribe to the media roundtable. I just I just started using a different app. I just, I just started using podcast guru and started from from scratch. It's like, what do I really need? What do I bring? Because I've got I mean, I have to. I mean, I think I've turned the downloads off on pod verse and fountain. I also will have I think I've all on loaded pretty much except for cast thematic because I'm graphing OS, but have everything else.

12:29 And Dave Jones: you did the dust off and nuke it from orbit strategy. Adam Curry: Is that what that is dust off and nuke it? Well, that's a reference Dave Jones: to aliens, the movie Aliens. Use nuke your whole playlist and start over? Well, Adam Curry: so obviously I have my I have backups with my OPML and my you know, I can export the OPML. But I just look I look deep inside my soul and said, What do I want to listen to? Oh, it's Tuesday. That means my hatless in which I would have to say for some odd reason the pivot podcast is it's religious for me. I never missed the visit pop pivot podcast. I mean, I might drop out if the guests they have at the end is not interesting, but that happens so rarely. And it's because I disagree with pretty much everything they say that it's good for my soul. I mean, I respect that I respect them. I don't like him. I don't like what they say. I disagree, but I respect him. And and they have good mics. So there's that. And then the new media show I liked the new media show a lot of always disappointed that I'm either not getting the pod ping or no sound. Speaking of sound, I mean, there's been so many problems with the sound. So usually that's a Wednesday and around noon or one o'clock or something goes off. I'm always delighted. Then I'll work out to that.

13:59 Dave Jones: What was your work? Are you spinning you still spin? No, no, no, I'm Adam Curry: free weights baby. Oh, you pumping, pumping pumping iron? Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, you know that none of my clothes fit me anymore. Because you're too big or too small. No, my chest expanded. Dave Jones: Because you ripped. Adam Curry: I'm far from rips but also I stopped smoking over exactly a year ago. Pretty much so. But but it's it's not that I'm fat. It's just the working out. I mean, I knew what happened. I see. My my my goal is the if Joe Rogan invited me on again. I want to walk in I want to go curry What happened to you?

14:43 Dave Jones: Give me your arm wrestling? Adam Curry: I don't think so. Dave Jones: You could stand easily to put on another 20 pounds Adam Curry: that No, no, no, not you. You haven't seen me. I Dave Jones: mean, I mean from the time I lost Adam Curry: 205 Yeah, but you're six five When I was 189, so I put on a t stand for six. Yeah, it was anyway, every morning literally religiously because I walked the dog I say my morning prayers. And then on the way back, I listened to pod News Daily. That's it's perfect length. It's perfect in so many ways. And I can also like the practice forgiveness Dave Jones: base Ireland prayer, Adam Curry: pretty much. Of course, pod news weekly review, sometimes we'll come in late Thursday, which I did. But I always try to listen to that. And I think that's pretty much it me and then I have some other sporadic acts. But honestly, there's there's not much time left for other things. You know, I look forward to a drive into Austin, you know, from time to time because like, oh yeah, I can listen to a couple of things. And there is there is one type of podcast that can listen to while I'm working and that's music podcast, so I'll listen to the sidestream podcast or listen to homegrown hits.

16:12 I'll listen to it's a mood to mood you know listen to stuff like that once in a while I put on lightning thrashes it's not really my jam, but you know, I like to listen up beats is hello I love salty crayon up beats is my favorite it's like the old pirate radio days you know he's like literally like all right, I got another song here this is brand new from dorsals pause for like three seconds I love it isn't needed the needle needle on the record. I love that it makes I Tina came up I was cooking on the on the grill outside he says you're laughing you're playing air guitar I'm listening to upbeats I buy low sell to crayon so much. I know him personally it was a great guy. And we because it just all this like it takes a while for the song to start. That's always a good song and I play air guitar and I wait for him to come back on. It's just it gives me so much joy and I can listen to those anywhere while I'm working even so I love doing that. And of course LM beats just for just to listen to the top 100 habit to have a go random I love that Dave Jones: is the you know I'm I'm addicted. I'm addicted to club random with Bill Maher. I mean, I never miss an episode now. Oh, wow. That's not a hate. Listen. That's because because

17:44 he's got he's got interesting Adam Curry: guests for sure. Yeah. And he's a he's a pretty, Dave Jones: I mean, he has his moments but he's pretty he tries to play it down the middle as much as he can he'll swerve you know, but of course, like we all Adam Curry: I'm always surprised by some how uneducated he is on certain things like Bill Maher, did you not know that? Dave Jones: That is so true. He did say something the other day he said he was like Whoa, did that. Did you not know this? Because he because he knows a lot. And then like how did how did you not have this? This whole has you have this hole in your knowledge? Yeah, but he had he had Margaret show. Do you know comedian? Yeah. So you had her on as a guest. Adam Curry: A couple of EPS where she been? I haven't seen her in a long time.

18:26 Dave Jones: I don't really know. Evidently she's like, works all the time. They work yeah. But um, he had her on. And I thought I knew who she was. But I actually I made it through the whole episode. The the first part of the episode is kind of not my, how long are these things? A couple hours tasteful? No, they're not. They're usually like an hour and a half. 15 Adam Curry: once a week or multiple times a week? Couple of times a week. Oh, Dave Jones: yeah. And but he like he had to take Candace Owens on that was a fun one because they they battled and then they would battle again. I'll bet ya had a big debate about the moon landing. It Adam Curry: was pretty funny. Now I gotta go listen to it. Oh, you hadn't heard it. I was testing. That's fantastic. She believer in Dave Jones: I don't know what she really would say she was kind of him hauling around. She wouldn't commit. But, so he had Margaret's show on and I was like, you know, I think I think I know who this is. And so I started looking up. Jump on YouTube. And I look up Margaret Cho. And I was like, Huh, okay, well, what is I haven't I don't know that I've ever seen her stand up. So I've tried a couple of different versions. And I'll say like Margaret Cho, stand up. And I hit that and it comes back with of course it's got the shorts and all that stuff which always skipped Yeah, roll down. PBR. You're on PBR.

19:59 Adam Curry: This is Yeah, this is a Pabst Blue Ribbon. acolytes light. That's right. Dave Jones: So she scroll down and I'm like, I'm like, Oh, this is weird. And there's like some, some pretty sketchy thumbnails of some sick stuff on here on YouTube on YouTube with me looking at Margaret Cho stand up, keeps rolling. Adam Curry: It turns out it's a porn move. It's like a position doing a Barbie Margaret show. Hey, man, I'm doing a Margaret Cho stand up. Oh, wow. That's a tough one. That's Dave Jones: a version of the Margaret Cho. Yeah, the standard variant. Yeah. So like, and then before I scroll down a little further, and dude, I'm telling you, it went off the rails. It was full on. Like, I had to close the browser fast because I was afraid that that like, I was gonna get a knock on the door.

21:03 Wow, it was it was shocking. The type of porn is coming Adam Curry: from a guy who rips a chair roosters head off with his bare hands. So it was Shari Yeah. Yeah, Dave Jones: it was scary. And I was it. I figured that all that kind of stuff makes it onto these platforms at some point. Adam Curry: Oh, no, it's it's in the algos. Dude, it was Dave Jones: disgusting. And I mean, like, I don't know if this was pedo. I don't know what this was. But I was like, I was like, Oh my god. So in there's advertising against this? Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. I had this same experience with with tick tock, which I don't have the app. But I installed the app, because apparently I was going viral for something. I was like, Okay, I'll go take a look. And I opened the app right away, I get one of those. Right away. First thing first install, boom. And I'm like, nope, delete. I'm done. I'm good. Nope, no, thank you. Unbelievable. And then we wonder what's wrong with our young men in the world. And Dave Jones: so this made me I had seen this, this article headline earlier. So I went back and looked, and it was the I think I sent it to you. Maybe it was the article about? Yeah, no, I did, um, about the Google advertising network, the search partner network, and how they monetize. They put ads against

22:36 all this horrible content. Yes, yeah. Now, of course, they they go political and put Breitbart in their analysis. But if you get past that part and actually dig into that report, it is like Google is advertising against every type of dis. Oh, tasteful porn, drugs, everything you can think of? Adam Curry: That was from AD analytics. That's what that was from. Yes. Yeah. That is. Dave Jones: It's a very long report. But it is worth going through because he sees he goes step by step. And shows you examples of like, the F, like, it'll have a, a website for like, you know, who knows, like ISIS. And there will be an FBI.

23:29 ad for a job opening right there on the ISIS page is your artificial Adam Curry: intelligence right there makes no sense. Or Dave Jones: it'll be some like, hardcore porn thing. And there'll be an ad, you know, right there for like, you know, some TV show. He's like, so that this was the experience I had with advertising this week, I was like you, this is the idea. It rang a bell with me when you said what you said earlier? About the like, the inventory, like draft to zero. I wonder if some of this brand safety stuff is an attempt to artificially artificially reduce at ad space to keep the CPMs from going? Oh, Adam Curry: that's a good that's a very good point. It's still not true. Because because you can still, you know, how, how many ads do you want? You know, how much the how much inventory Do you want? We just create more it'd be for every podcast download, you download, you stop and we started could have a different ad. I mean, it's, it's endless, but it will it will. It will limit it to some degree. Yes. That's an interesting angle. I don't even know if, if that's purposeful.

24:50 Dave Jones: Because you could say if you looked at at all the digital ad space as a pie, and you say, Okay, well, we want the bigger we have to preserve our section of pie or enlarge it somehow. We need to the only way to do it is to reduce the inventories do reduce the ad space. And what we definitely want to get a twofer. Yeah. By taking it away from our political competition or whatever that is. Yeah. But it seems just in general, but of course brand safety doesn't. It doesn't actually that is so Adam Curry: interesting. You bring that up, because just this afternoon, I was listening to my hatless and, and Professor Scott Galloway, professor in marketing. He he said that, the the end here's the sick thing about this Elan situation, is that because of all these advertisers pull out, a smaller advertiser will get a much larger return on investment for the time being, because there's just because there's much less ad dollars competing for the space.

25:56 Dave Jones: No, there you go. That's, that's almost confirmation that yes, at least something to do. And Adam Curry: I just don't know if it's purposeful. I know. Dave Jones: It may be one of those things where it wasn't purposeful at the beginning, but then they see a bump every time and they keep doing it. Adam Curry: Like yeah, yeah. That's very, that's an interesting angle. So you're giving them a lot of credit? I Dave Jones: am. The brand safety thing is so obviously, a red herring. Even case in point is this. This on the media episode that mean you texted about the other day? Oh, my Adam Curry: goodness, I got five, five clips from that. No agenda that was so unhinged people hearing things that are not even there. It was great.

26:45 Dave Jones: It was like it was, I think it was a couple of days ago was the Africa during the title of it was all about Trump. And so it was like some body took. When future archaeologists attempt to understand Trump derangement syndrome, this episode of On the media will be their Rosetta Stone. That is, it's like somebody took Trump derangement syndrome, distilled it, purified it into liquid for 20 Adam Curry: minutes and put it into 20 minutes. It was in a special episode no less. Dave Jones: When you're high on liquid Trump derangement syndrome. This is your favorite train. That's what it sounds like. True in? Do you remember a single advertiser from that episode?

27:33 Adam Curry: Well, I am. So I have pretty much eliminated advertising for my life that I had used. I've used the piehole for years. So I really between my piehole and brave browser, really very little gets through, you know, graphene OS. So there's much less stuff being tracked and trying to be recommended to me through other arenas I get, I never see an ad on Twitter that I like the ads on most of the podcasts. I've listened to like, I've listened to the pivot ads, because I'm very interested, who advertises and they have, I have to say, for all the F bombs and all the racism that they espouse, especially against white men. It's and Christian hates and all this stuff, the or fear of God, I should say, because man, they're afraid of God. The order your sky, daddy, they, they they have apple. The funniest one is, you know, just show you how corrupt they are morally corrupt without even knowing it. I'm not going to accuse them. They have at Atlassian is advertising like crazy. Of course, they're they're the award winning tech show, being the tech news about Atlassian is how Confluence has been hacked by the Chinese and all the military contractors are freaking out. But of course, they can't talk about that, nor will they ever when Atlassian is is advertising. You know, so I'm

29:06 always surprised, but also delightfully delighted by how they are literally doing ads for Apple together. Now in the most disingenuous way, Scott, what do you have on your Mac? Well, I have numbers because you know, I need to know what's going on with the numbers. I mean, it's numbers. The Karate is the craziest Excel ever works. It's so bad. I about to do with speech. I'm gonna use Keynote. No, you're not you're using PowerPoint, don't lie. Don't lie. We all know we know you're full of crap. But everybody I mean, advertising is so the antithesis of value for value. Because it's, it's disruptive.

29:51 You know, it's it's interrupting your enjoyment. And that just goes to show that people do not care about the podcast if they don't listen to the ads It's really it's a it's a, it's a bad ask, please listen to the ads to support us. Oh, my God, I mean, all you have to do is say, send send me some some value, and someone might send you 50 bucks. You know, that'll be the entire run of that ad for a month. Besides why it's such a small switch in your head to instead of saying please listen to the ads, click on the the advertisers to saying Why don't you support the show with whatever you think it's worth? It's just it's it. The whole world has to move this way.

30:34 Unfortunately, Amazon and I gladly pay for for Amazon Prime video, I gladly play for pay for Netflix. Then they have Hulu. I have no cable anymore. I cut the cord on that there's nothing there's no no cable in my life. So none of those ads, I don't listen to radio. But now Amazon, they're moving towards the ad this thing called free V. Sykes is that well, you're looking for some show or some things that oh, the show was right here. Oh, it's free v. So it has ads. But I don't see a way for me to just let me have to pay extra for this, I'll pay extra for it.

31:16 They don't get that opportunity. It's so it's so short sighted. And then the whole world will have to move towards either straight up subscription. Which some things are just worth subscribing to. I think everything's and I don't have any subscriptions that way. But some and you know, we know that this streaming model doesn't work because they're all losing money. So that's not working to ultimately, you kind of gotta move towards a value for value model. Then if you're not skipping the ads, that's value for value. View our even if you don't care, you are showing value by listening to an ad. But what a what a what a horrible thing instead of hey, love me, help me. It's love me. Take some beatings.

32:03 Dave Jones: Yeah. Well, yeah, the that the fader thing. I'm like you it just, it was inevitable. I mean, come on everybody. This is we could all sit down for a little while this is, I mean, even before AI, this before AI, lots of people had lots of ways that they had come up with to do this exact thing. Adam Curry: How about a DVR bit started with DVRs? Like, oh, I recorded the show, or let's walk, let's start watching the show at five after the hour. So when the ad comes on, I can fast forward through it. Everyone's done that it's a broken model is some of it still works. I mean, I'm not against commerce and advertising. It just doesn't seem to be working anymore. When it's when you're in this environment. I Dave Jones: think that's the difference. Like the advertising model. It all it only it only worked up into the point. Up until the point where there was a digital were became digital.

33:09 Yeah. TiVo? Yeah, the digital ecosystem. And the advertising model. Just they just don't work together. Adam Curry: Or even there's VHS. I mean, that's when it really started. You Dave Jones: as soon as you can control in an automated way. What the what the content is? It's just it's your it's a complete collapse. Yeah. And you can't stop it because it just the same way that you can't stop. You know, that you can spam filter. I mean, think about it that way. spam filtering is just weeding out advertising. Adam Curry: Yeah. Thank you. It's exactly what it is. When Dave Jones: I don't want to, I want to use an email, my email.

33:54 But I don't want to see ads for Viagra. So I spam filter because we already have a subscription. And this is just not smart. That's just dumb advertising. It's called Pfizer blue. Adam Curry: Is that the new thing? Pfizer blue? Is that what it's called? The dollars a Dave Jones: month you get out? Yes. I agree. Adam Curry: That's a deal. ffice eyes are Dave Jones: blue. You get the blue check. The blue V like the so this is have been happening for you. Let me go a little bit further than that on that on ad blocking. Because ad ad blocking. I don't for most most people's interaction with ad blockers is that they don't like seeing a bunch of ads on the internet when they browse so they install an ad blocker.

34:46 That's like the normal view and you user you know what control like a rent roll control residential? Yeah, that's that's sort of everybody's typical interaction. But there's a there's another side to this, that it people see in the enterprise. And for us adver adblocking is not primarily a thing about convenience or entertainment or whatever. It's a safety issue. Yes. So we we deploy as most enterprises do, pretty much as a standard, we deploy some level of Ad blocking across the board in a defensive posture. Because digital advertising like banner ads became malicious. Long ago, they did they did, you would you would go to a website, a JavaScript ad would would would pop your machine and you're compromised. So the enterprise world took a defensive stance against advertising many years ago, and that has persisted and even gotten stronger. So a lot, most, most, most enterprise level, it will do things like, like you said, like pot pie holing, but it's you know, it's at the firewall level, that will firewall it, they'll host name list it, they will put in browser ad blocker extensions, they have multiple like is multiple layers of advertising blocking, as a to reduce their

36:21 attack surface. And you this level of tech and commitment to the process of Ad blocking, will norm will inevitably flow downhill into the rest of of digital media. Audio comes next, even though audio has you could you can say for sure that audio has less of an attack vector on the ad front than something like a browser ad does. But it's not zero. So like you, you could, you could, so we all know stage fright, and the stage fright vulnerabilities from Android Wear media where certain types of media get played, and it would pop your phone that you this stuff is coming. And it's coming from different angles.

37:08 It's not just I guess what I'm trying to say is, when you look at people using ad blockers, or trying to strip ads from content, it's not always just about this greedy sob trying to get something for free. There are other motivations involved. Adam Curry: True, and I and I'm old enough to remember the first ad blockers popping up in web browsers. Adblock I think, and I remember I was in the advertising space at the time. And not not with with web ads, per se, but I had commercial clients who were involved in a lot of this. And you know, that the industry got together and well we have to deal with they had whitelisting acceptable ads, you know, quote unquote, acceptable ads, all this stuff. It never works. It none of it has ever worked. It never will. It's just, it's not going to happen. Because ultimately, the advertising methodology of interruption is anti human. It's just it's anti human. Mm.

38:17 Moreover, because advertising is tailored towards making difference done well towards making you open and susceptible for the ad. At the moment it comes if it's really done well. And now the paywall thing is different. And I think that's also anti human. You know, it's like, oh, wow, I want to read this article. Click paywall. Do you have a choice right there. Now it's like, do I use some tools I might have? Do I just that wasn't that important. I'm not going to look at it. And I would posit that if you made it frictionless for someone to say, oh, you know, that was kind of cool. Thanks for giving me that I'm gonna pay you 10 SATs or whatever. I would posit that ultimately that will be better for you than any other methodology in the long run as we go down this hill, which just is a race to the bottom it it is has always been that way. You know, we had you remember when cassettes came out and then the mom was stealing music so how they do it? They put $1 on the price of blank cassettes that went to the music industry that didn't last they want to do the same thing with hard drives.

39:35 Dave Jones: I don't remember that. Oh, yeah. When Adam Curry: I think that was when Napster was around Dave Jones: Yep. They want to they wanted to have a tax on hard hard drives. Adam Curry: Yeah, cuz you were storing your music on it. Yeah, I bet a bit that actually musi was it. Hard Drive music. Dave Jones: I didn't remember that about the cassette tapes. Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. Oh, all blank media had be private copy levy There you go. Copy lead also known as blank media tax government mandated scheme in which a special tax or Levy, this charge on purchase of recordable media history Let me see your Europe of course European have they had that? In Belgium Oh well, I guess it hasn't gone away entirely in Belgium a fee is charged on both blank media and recording equipment, which is passed on to Ovie Bell, which is in charge of distributing the funds as of February 120 10. So I don't know if it's still around mp3 mp4 players how to tax TV Hi Fi combined DVD writer video recorder multifunctional DVD.

40:46 This has been around for a long time. Dave Jones: I had no this is a revelation to even Adam Curry: have oh, yeah, in Finland. It's four euros for memory cards up to five or memory devices up to 512 megabytes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Dave Jones: So do the phone like, do phone manufacturers also pay this like an iPhone or an Android device or Lord knows, Adam Curry: I don't even know if it's still in play. But this, this was one of the solutions. I don't think these prices are in play, because you can get for 36 euros, you can get a lot more than that kind of space these days. I mean, cases the cost of what they are. But there's always been, you know, so you you devolve to DRM, which has its own drawbacks. All I can say is, from my own 16 years of experience, value for value works, that it is not designed, or even humane to be something that works for everybody, which is the antithesis of what the promise is from Silicon Valley. Get a camera, you'll make money.

42:00 You're a YouTuber, we not every not every podcast or product is designed to have a mass audience that will make you livable wage 1000 people who care a lot about what you're doing in whatever community you're in, and actually may make your life sustainable. This is the promise of value for value. But the promise is just not for everybody. You may be doing a great podcast, but no one cares, because it's not for anybody else. But you know, it's just no, Dave Jones: no, yeah, I can I can confidently say that. A podcast like this, which is a podcast about this a podcast about not just this is not a podcast about podcasting. This is a podcast about something very specific, very. The Bucha is a boy a one single open source project within podcasting. I mean, that is niche upon niche upon niche, there is no way that this show will ever be able to provide us a living wage is just not it's just not going to happen. So that's not Yeah, you're right. I mean, these if you if you have a podcast about you know about random subject a, there's a likelihood that is just not going to have you're not going to be able to do a living wage out of it. I mean, value for value is going to be just as successful to you as best advertising. More Adam Curry: successful, I think, yeah, at Dave Jones: least Adam Curry: if you if you're looking at this podcast, according to OP three dot dev in the last 30 days, how many

43:35 downloads Do you think we've had? What do you think? Dave Jones: For the like the last episode, Adam Curry: not in the last 30 days? Dave Jones: How many downloads? Yeah. Oh, I'm gonna say to 10,000 5694 Adam Curry: this year. Yeah. As in November, our unique audience was 5458. And I just use these numbers because that's the best numbers we got. Is that op three? That's op three. Yeah. Yes. Dave Jones: That that these numbers are coming down, man, that all yes, that are going on. These numbers are hilariously coming down. Because we were at 13,000. I know. We were two months. We're knocking it out of the park. But this was probably the true number the whole time, you know, or something closer to it. This is funny, man. This whole thing is just the advertising and podcasting. It's just so distasteful to me, is so distasteful. It's I'm gonna have to stop listening to this stuff.

44:44 Like these all these different shows about advertising and stuff like that. They just they just, they're gross. They're slimy. They'll like it. Well, Adam Curry: I Okay. I won't go that far because I just I've been in this business. I understand it. I ended Stand up much better than people may even give me credit for. I left the business on purpose, and took a huge leap to change my life. And it's done more than just change. My Media has changed my life. It's how I live my life. And I'm just the money router. You know, it's like, I'm giving away money left and right. Oh, you got to open source project, boom. Oh, you mean next cloud? Yeah, I use all the time. And if they remind me somewhere, oh, yeah, I got to support you, boom. I'm doing this all the time.

45:33 Dave Jones: I'm like, the only guy I know that pays for signal. No, I Adam Curry: donated a signal. Sure, sure. Of course, of course, you got to otherwise one day, it'll go away. It goes away. That's right. And then finally, you know that now that Amazon Web Services is charging for public ipv4 addresses. ipv6 is no but ipv6 is here. It's it's going to change things. It's going to change all of this. And I just feel bad for people who desperately hold on to this stuff. The Dave Jones: the pipe, the reason I say it's slimy is because the podcast advertising is, is what is driving at 90 miles an hour. And there's a cliff about Yeah, often the distance and it's just heading straight for it. And the whole time up into the very last moment, when the front wheels go an inch off into the to, you know, to space, they're going to continue to tell everybody that revenues up revenues up, revenue is up, we got better targeting, we got this, we got that. And then you're going to just be like the, you know, the coyote, you should be falling. It's headed towards the bottom of the, you know, of the value of the beaut, or whatever.

46:52 Adam Curry: And then, you know, while we're on this, and I'm pretty sure this started on noster. But um, I won't blame them per se, is zapped for zap vertising was, Oh, wow. So these are companies that will get your lightning address. You know, like, Dave Jones: this is what Sam was? Yes. So which of Adam Curry: course is Bo you get it right off of nostre. That's the easiest way. You know, this is what Al B and and fountain mio requested. And we changed in the namespace so I can have you know, adam@fountain.fm. So now, all of that's being trolled.

47:41 But, of course, as being scraped out of feeds, I'm sure but the easiest place because people are using it actively this way. With Ellen URL pay is noster. And so now people are receiving, you know, one to five sat payments with an ad in it. Dave Jones: That think that's great. I mean, all day long, Adam Curry: I think I think it shows that. You know, in a way it shows that noster and even the Lightning Network are solutions. Looking for problems? To make any sense.

48:25 Dave Jones: Yeah, Adam Curry: I mean, this This to me is just it's gotten so bad. That now all that your noster zap thing is good for is to receive SMS advertising, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, as bad. Now, you know, everyone's going to have to now I'm with you to a degree on like, well, if you're going to send me 1000 SATs make it more interesting. But you know, now we want us to go build filtering for that. So it's still intrusive, Dave Jones: but depends on how much you're you know, it depends on how much you're worth. I mean, if you if you look at my you know, look, I can look off into the future on this thing and say, Okay, well, somebody sees our show sees our pod roll with various shows in it. They look at our mp3 which is public.

49:25 And they say okay, well this do these people have this issue has 5000 sat 5000 downloads they have there, they seem to align well. I'm going to I'm going to spam them with with some with some boost and try to get me to try to get mentioned on the show and for our end we're going to just going to pump in our our advertisements and then maybe even not a mention on the show but since the boost and become public. The like, I don't know I could see this as being sort of fun. It's almost like an automated what would you call that like a, like an automated way to have your ad pop up. It's like programmatic ads. But but you pay to get into it. And it's like, nobody blocks it. It just comes right in there. Well, you have to pay a decent ml you, you set thresholds. And that's Adam Curry: that that's what's missing. Yeah. And I run my own node, I get nose advertising, but I don't have a single one.

50:32 Single Dave Jones: Why have any? Adam Curry: I haven't looked. I don't even think I have any on Alby. And before, I only have one Albion, one block these days. But you know what, now now, we do need filtering for that, and I love helipad, because helipad will just won't show it to me. If it's not in a TLV record. I'm not going to see it. It's just I don't know. Dave Jones: It's like this is this is all floundering is what this? Yeah, Adam Curry: that's okay. There's there's a good term floundering. It's just floundering. Hey, I had an idea. This may be a weird thought. Because again, you know, YouTube, the Doom podcast is great. Is it weird of me to think that the even if it's HTML embedded HTML code, is that wrong? As an enclosure on a feed?

51:30 Dave Jones: An HTML enclosure? Adam Curry: Yeah, like an embed code. So. So instead of fighting YouTube, which I don't really care, but if you want to be on YouTube, so you know, the way I wanted to seek where there's zagging, So YouTube is saying, Give us all your RSS belong to us. And we're going to, we're going to ingest it and there's no and then once we have it, screw your RSS entry. We have it. Okay, now, if I just wanted to put my YouTube video into my RSS feed as an enclosure, does it necessarily mean an enclosure can be a PDF and enclosure can be an mp3 and an M, an mp4? It can be all kinds of different downloadable media Dave Jones: is it can be anything with a MIME type.

52:21 Adam Curry: So could it be just an embeddable YouTube code that just pops up within the app? Because the app says, Oh, this is a YouTube? I mean, does it have to use? You understand what I'm saying? Like the HTML Dave Jones: like that you're talking about when you get one of those HTML fragments? Yeah. Adam Curry: Yeah. Like a web, a web clip, a web snippet? Because the only reason why YouTube wins at this game is because of all the obvious things they solved, which is a compatibility across all browsers, and storage and bandwidth. So why wouldn't we just you know, because I still want my metadata around it.

53:04 What's wrong with embedding a YouTube video making a YouTube video and enclosure? Easy for apps to understand? Dave Jones: Yeah, they would just spawn a WebView to show it. Yeah. It's, Adam Curry: I mean, I have no religious, you know, like, any, any RSS versus downloadable media. reason to not think that's legal. From a technical standpoint. No, Dave Jones: I mean, it's totally laid out the only thing that they could do only thing that YouTube could do would be they could begin to block a showing it based on the referrer header. Yeah, well, of course, we're not gonna allow this, but I mean, that's, that's a cat and mouse game. Yeah.

53:49 Adam Curry: I mean, you can get around that eventually. And you know, and sometimes, yeah, I mean, would there be a course issue may be I don't know. I'm just throwing out some terms. I have no idea what they mean. I just hit me. It's like, you know, YouTube is a YouTube music. Although James Cridland loves it. He says a pretty it's a pretty good podcast that what if I just want my podcast app, but I just want to add Theo, Vons YouTube video feed, and he just creates a feed is called Theo Vaughn's YouTube video feed. And he puts him the embed links as the enclosure or something like that. And then my podcast app, which I know do all my podcast stuff with, just as Oh, this is a YouTube video. Boom, I'll, I'll display it.

54:38 Dave Jones: Yes, yeah. I mean, I was still say, why wouldn't because I think I think we're Adam Curry: in this weird space. We're being complicated about them being the app. No, they're just the storage in the end the bandwidth people. That just because it's just because it's a you know, it's streams like I stream all my NP threes. I mean, yeah. Will you be able to view it as a download? Maybe I mean, you can get there's lots of apps that that help you download the actual video from YouTube maybe can implement that. Dave Jones: Yeah, it would. So yeah, there's like as far as violating any specs. It doesn't, right? No, no, no, not at all.

55:19 Because we, we used to do this in the freedom controller where we would do exactly as enclosures, we would put HTML, yes, enclosures. And so then the HTML, the enclosure, when the when the, when the news river saw the HTML enclosure, it would include it as a as, as a embed in the post. And Adam Curry: I will, I'm willing to bet with you, which I won't, but I'm willing to bet that YouTube would once YouTube sees, oh, you know, everyone's using our YouTube videos, which they can easily put an ad in front of if they want to. I mean, you can't really stop that per se, although you could. But once it's embedded, I mean, they could choose the route, they could choose the route of no will block all podcast apps. I have a feeling they might say, well, who cares? It's more distribution for us.

56:18 Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, they don't really block anything nowadays. Do they? Adam Curry: Know the only thing I get is like, you can't know this. The owner won't let you view this as an embedded video, which is an owner setting. But I think everything else embedded anywhere, just play it plays on Mastodon, the history, plenty of plenty of people put that. So why wouldn't we just have that? I mean, let's not be jihadist about this, you know, it's like let's turn it around, turn that frown upside down. Make your YouTube make your YouTube channel or whatever, just make turn that into into your your, your your hosting company for your videos, then hosting companies. I'm going to exclude some, for obvious reasons. But that's really the only reason Oh, yes. Or they have a great recommendation engine. Okay, as long as you keep feeding it, but most people subscribe to podcasts because you heard about it from somebody else, or it's in your pod roll, which we now have. So how would I go about doing that? Can I just create a feed? And how do we do that with the freedom controller? We just put it in as enclosure and then the freedom controller knew how to read it. Yeah, Dave Jones: so the way the freedom controller did this was it would you have when you saved an article, you if you were on a YouTube video, you would say even in you chose to save that article in your database in your in your archive, the or you chose to microblogging, but back to your micro blog. Whichever way you did it, it would pull the embed code for that YouTube

57:50 video out here you go included as the enclosure with a with a content type of text slash HTML. And so then when it comes back, the when you see it in your, in your newsfeed on the freedom controller page, when you saw it in your newsfeed, that post would just be the video, it would just be the embed. So you're seeing embeddable YouTube videos in your just in your feed, and you just click play, you never actually leave that page and go to YouTube. So Adam Curry: how does this work with peer tube? When when you get a peer tube? Isn't it exactly the same thing?

58:31 Dave Jones: Peer tube, peer tube has native support for podcasting 2.0 alternating closures. And so what's the MIME type? The MIME type for it is HLS. Adam Curry: Okay, right. Gotcha is now. Okay, while we're on this. So let's say new media show goes live. And I have an option, maybe it's a third feed, and the option is the live YouTube feed. But I can still stream my sets per minute to them, I can still boost them. I'm just getting the I'm just getting the stream from YouTube. I'm telling you, we've been looking at this all wrong. We need to turn it upside down and say thank you very much YouTube. That's great. Now the cool thing is if you feed them your RSS feed and then it comes back into your feed as a as an RSS enclosure that with recursion but you basically have a feed that feeds YouTube you know you get something about this tells me been looking at it all wrong.

59:33 And embrace embrace the free hosting company that is YouTube Dave Jones: as well. This is exactly what people did to SoundCloud and archive.org do to just upload your Why don't you just upload your stuff to there right Adam Curry: that's right. Yeah, but as we get closer Yes. And people still do that. I think for Dave Jones: Yeah, for sure that I don't know how you can get I don't know what the street if they Do HLS or whatever he gets some sort of native type of thing? I don't care, just the Adam Curry: embedded player. Yeah, I don't care that I have to start it by clicking on it or tapping on it. That's fine. As long as long as I can, as long as I can stream SATs. Thank you very much YouTube for the free bandwidth and free hosting.

1:00:19 Dave Jones: I agree. Yes. This is a good idea. I like this. It was Adam Curry: it just hit me. It's like why are we fighting these guys? Why do we have to beg for them to Oh, please YouTube, IP, take all of our information, take a metadata, please let me change the URL, just I'll throw it into a channel. I'll throw it into a channel. I don't need your thinking RSS ingestion. Just let me have a channel. And then boom, I'll add those links into my feed. Dave Jones: That don't see why that wouldn't work. As a matter of fact, we should test it. Adam Curry: I would like to test it. Steven Be programming already Dave Jones: done, sir. He's Adam Curry: already got it done yet. Steven B Dave Jones: is what he beats. Yes. I think it's I think it's worth I think it's worth looking at it because it'd be flip it around. us use the use the free host. Hey, why not?

1:01:13 Adam Curry: I just see, Justin, you can get the benefit of YouTube. You know, there's definite benefits to YouTube if you like it. If you want to play the YouTube game, that's fine. And then you put right there and every single one of your descriptions. Subscribe to us on a podcast app. Yeah, did you find did you find us on YouTube, click here to you know, to subscribe in pod verse. Click here to subscribe and curio Kassar, et cetera, et cetera. And then it just you just did just takes you to the index or whatever, or whatever, however you do that. You type it into your app, boom, there it is subscribed done. I don't think people are gonna cry that will have to click on this YouTube video. That's perfect.

1:01:56 Dave Jones: You go one step further, you can say like an a podcast host. Sign up for a podcast hosting. And next a, Adam Curry: where's your where's your YouTube channel? Dave Jones: When I'm at the YouTube channel, they suck. They suck in the content, convert it to mp3, and now you're in. Now you're Native. Adam Curry: All kinds of things can be done here. But we're looking at the one wrong way. They need us more than we need them. Dave Jones: That like that is yes. And they know it. Adam Curry: They know it. They'd love to have the dedicated podcast listeners and viewers. They love it. Why not? They we give them free audience instead of how can we please be a part of your audience and recommendation engine? Hey, you know what, I'm gonna let you enjoy my audience for free. I'm not going to charge you YouTube for free. It Dave Jones: struck me the other day that I think I finally figured out this whole what is a podcast, you know, debate? I mean, the I mean, we're obviously we know what a podcast is. On a technical level. It's the notes. It's an enclosure in an RSS feed. But that's the on a purely technical level. But I think I've finally figured out what the confusion is amongst the general public. To, to the average person. A podcast is, is some people talking to each other? And microphones with

1:03:27 headphones? Adam Curry: Yes. Yes. That's the podcast. CO Dave Jones: Vaughn show is is hot cast. Yes. Not because of anything other than the fact that he has headphones on and he's talking to somebody into a mic. God, what I'm what, that's what it is. I would love Adam Curry: for him to say, yeah, subscribe to the YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcasts. Seriously? Yeah. Dave Jones: Everything people are wearing headphones and mics that are connected. They do things because they want to be a podcast. Adam Curry: Oh, yeah. There's lots of people do fake like a fake podcast setting to make it look like they're serious about something or they're important because they were interested in a podcast is just fake. It's not even a real podcast is the names of those. When Dave Jones: you say where do you listen to your podcasts? It's not people are think they think in their head. Okay, what podcast or listen to? Oh, yeah, here's in a, they think about all the shows where there's people talking into microphones with headphones on. And they're like, I think I see a lot of that on on YouTube. Yeah, YouTube. That's what it is.

1:04:36 Like, there's no, there's lots of things that are podcasts like NPR shows. Those are those are podcasts. Yes. Yeah. But they don't have they don't have people talking into microphones with headphones on. You can't see it can't it's not a part. Yeah. Exactly. Because I think and I think Joe Rogan is the reason for that. Yeah, Joe Rogan is the reason people associate mint Really? Yes, dudes talking into microphones with headphones on with podcasts. Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean, I'd like to I'd like to work on this. I think this would be fantastic. I mean, we were going to this whole exercise which is kind of funny in a way. This whole exercise with Ainsley Costello and just loud. And I'm, by the way, I love you Dolby Das, I love you, blueberry, you guys are my heroes, for the first time in my life. And I've been doing this for 30 years, that I don't have to be involved in getting something set up at a venue and people get me explaining to people how things work and RSS feeds. They're sending all this emotion that was a lot of Mao information, I guess is the right term, some view about how this works and how the podcasting 2.0 part of streaming SATs works. And there was I was just praying that whole please can we get this set up? So the apps that do video can actually do video, and stream SATs and take booster grams, I was just praying and

1:06:06 these guys jumped in blueberries on site in Minneapolis. I mean, my heart, my heart is full that you guys are doing this. I love that, then, you know there's so much went into finding the right place to stream I'm like, honestly, me No, this is well, no, I, I disagree with using YouTube. I like using peer tube. But if you just want to stream it on YouTube, that should be totally possible in the lit environment. It's totally possible. Just put the YouTube link and here in closure on in your lit tag. And Bob's your uncle. Dave Jones: Yeah, it's just that nobody, it's just that everybody would choke on the HTML Adam Curry: code because no one's set up for it. Because they're not set up for it. But I mean, why not? It's just another enclosure type.

1:07:00 Dave Jones: Yeah, that's where I'm at. I'm in time, I will Adam Curry: stream video from this show. But from my, from my Dave Jones: from my hand from my end. That is boy, no, you're not going to do that. If if Adam Curry: a podcast app sets up a YouTube Live, you know, include as an enclosure, I will publish this as an enclosure on the lit tag. I will have multiple of course, but so that people can watch me do the show. Dave Jones: Do I get if this happens? Do I get to criticize you for being distracted? Of course, Adam Curry: because the show will suck it will devolve into it Dave Jones: will devolve into Rails Adam Curry: I'm um, it just seems like we're looking at this the wrong way. We have some religious belief, quote unquote, religious belief that it has to be a downloadable thing. No, it doesn't. It doesn't it Dave Jones: won't mean especially not for live. I mean, that's, that's never downloadable. Anyway, some of Adam Curry: the biggest companies and organizations in the world use YouTube as their video provider. And they embed videos all over their site for their conferences, all this stuff all the time.

1:08:18 Dave Jones: Now I will get religious on it. I will get sort of religious on the downloadable part because I fight a lot with streaming. Some there's some aspect of my life where I walk through stairwells and elevator elevator elevators and I go in and out of Wi Fi range to such a such a degree that apps the stream only and don't download just they just fall down all the time, and it's very aggravated. Sure. So the downloadable part to me is pretty Adam Curry: important. But that okay, but are you actually watching in the elevator? Or are you listening in the elevator listening use the use the mp3 stream, the mp3 feed? If that's is that simple, more use the alternative feed whatever, whatever, whatever the app goes with. I'm with you mean doesn't happen very often to me, in fact, very infrequently Do I Do I have an interruption in my stream? Because I'm an older guy now. So sometimes the stream is interrupted.

1:09:25 Dave Jones: You need medic medication. Adam Curry: Back to Pfizer blue. It's it just Oh, that's interesting. Ice Cube soup says this opens up the possibility to adding value for value to live Twitch streams. Yes. More even X. I mean, you still get what you pay for. Let's be honest about it. You can be deep platformed you can be all kinds of bad stuff can happen to you. But why fight it? It's there. It's free. These guys literally want you to use it. Or why shouldn't I have an embedded dip? I don't think Twitter doesn't beds. But, you know, like, it's crazy not to do it, put it in the podcast app. I mean, think about what you can add as an as an audience. I think as an app developer, I think you can add a lot of a lot of content a lot of users, I really do. And, you know, we just run our value for value right alongside with that.

1:10:23 Dave Jones: Well, Soundhound already does this. Do you know that Soundhound No, I don't think yes. Sound sound Hound is the app that I think started this whole thing of being able to you open the app, tap the listen button, and it hears the song and tells you which one what it is. Oh, Adam Curry: yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. I know. This. I'm looking at now. Yes. Yeah. Dave Jones: So the Soundhound does this already. It? It will. It'll tell you what the song is. And they'll say do you want to listen to it? Play in it plays the YouTube version of the song in the in their app as an as an embed. There you go. So clearly, these these small these embeddable web views are possible. Yes. I think this as an alternate enclosure. Yeah.

1:11:14 Adam Curry: Yeah. In fact, ultimate enclosure, perfect weight and perfect way to test it. Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. All right. And then you just have the right you have the right to a man type. And then we can be we'll be done by the end of the day, Adam Curry: and then solve the biggest problem. Yeah, YouTube, the other podcast, as long as it's in my podcast app. So what is a podcast? Something that shows up in my podcast app? Dave Jones: There's your Yes. There's your Yeah, that's the answer. That's the answer. So YouTube. Yeah. As a YouTube video, some shows up on YouTube. A podcast is something shows up in my podcasts Exactly. Adam Curry: solves that problem. Dave Jones: I mean, it let's, let's face reality here. But, you know, I think we timed the podcast, podcast index. Well, I Adam Curry: mean, obviously, that was us. was, Dave Jones: I think, I think the timing was was was fantastic, for many reasons. But but one is because it's obviously the podcast apps are hurting, like, with Castro is shutting down.

1:12:22 Adam Curry: Well, we've we have thrown Castro wasn't using value for value. Yeah, Dave Jones: yeah. And the pod podcast app, the podcast, app space is shrinking. And I think there's clear clearly anything that can be done to that's what our mandate is, our mandate is to help podcast apps. And anything that that does, that is fair game. And I think we're, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Because then you got, you know, immediately you have a different bill. Okay, I want to watch this. There's this. This pot, you know, this quote unquote, podcast that is on YouTube that I did, there's no feed for anywhere. I can't find it any on my podcast app, because it's only on YouTube. Well, now it's a podcast. Now you can see it in your podcast app. Like a lot right alongside everything that actually is a podcast. Yeah.

1:13:20 Adam Curry: Been. I should probably go through a few booster grants because people are responding very, very passionately. So we'll start with blueberry 11,111 I'm positively stoked for the just loud and Ainslie show seen a lot of shows in my time, like this. A lot. This one. This is one of them getting pumped for guar. I feel a wellspring of joy and valley brewing. I'll be rebroadcasting the live show through BTS B 40s. feeds and would encourage other lit enabled shows to consider the same. Let me see Sam Sethi. Dave, how can apps download episodes and still say still takes and still take stream SATs? We won't know how much you listen to until you reconnect while offline. You may listen to 60 minutes of a podcast but have no money when you reconnect in your wallet to pay for listening. Well, that Dave Jones: that's already been solved. Yeah. Because they they they keep state you know, while you're listening, if stacks those those transactions up and then the next time you come online, it batches those things. And since those labs already do that, Adam Curry: by the way, Steven B says Sorry, guys. 1234 Or five sets, um, deer hunting this weekend, maybe next weekend.

1:14:38 Okay, all right, then. Well, I will I'll take a little bit of venison from you. I'd rather have venison than code this week. Just even be. Anyway, it seems like something we should just do. And I agree with you. Our mission is to help podcast apps. But I think we've done pretty well. So So far, and this solves the biggest problem. What is a podcast? It's in a podcast app, what's a podcast app? Here you go. It says podcast app right on the tin. Alright. And that means you can get all forms of media in your podcast app. It's episodic, that will be the fairest thing to say, as long as it's episodic, it's a podcast, and I can get it in my podcast app. The next thing we discussed last week, in the Fed ification of the index verification of podcasting 2.0, we discussed DNS as a possibility for adding guid and etc, identifiers. To which of course, everybody said the following. I mentioned that 5000 years ago.

1:15:50 Dave Jones: There was a lot of that. Adam Curry: A lot of that. Yeah, I know. I got it. You know, we're not pretending like we invented something here. But you know, there's a time it's all about timing. I have I have come up. I invented YouTube. 10 years too early. Okay. So it's not how it works. Dave Jones: We all invented lots of things. But Adam Curry: Alex gates turned me on to something, which I think you saw as well. Or maybe not. P car. Have you seen P car? PDA? AR AR? Dave Jones: Yeah, I saw. I saw that. And I'm struggling to understand it. Okay, Adam Curry: well, I got it right away. And it's working perfectly for me. So, PK, what's the what's the URL? Okay, p k a. r r.org. I'm gonna put this into the into the chat here. Yes, Eric PPAP, Cor p car.org. Now, if you know I generated a P car, and this goes to DHT. So it's distributed hash table, I guess that's, you know, magic space in that space. So if you Kademlia is what that is. So if you go to I just pasted my predetermined.

1:17:08 What is that call? What would you call that? Gets the D ID or get the ID if you paste that in and hit resolve. What does it show you Dave Jones: wait and pasting this into a browser? No, it Adam Curry: was first. Yeah. First you go to app dot p car.org. Yeah. And then you see what I posted in the post. Copy that key K colon, and then you go to the resolve tab, you paste that. Paste it in? And then what is the chewy? Okay. Let's see. Resistant name and a value pair.

1:17:49 Was it not working? Works for me? Dave Jones: Did I paste it room? Cause Oh, what is that? Okay. Well, it does who had technical difficulties on the site? Oh, oh, it came with Mr. character in the copying out of IRC which is great. Adam Curry: It's, it's not high tech. Okay. Yes. Dave Jones: Why am I getting this weird thing? Okay. What? Adam Curry: You're going to the resolve tab, right? Yeah. Dave Jones: Okay, here. Here we go. No agenda podcast. Yeah. And there's the there's. Adam Curry: So I mean, that's a very, I can paste that into a feed. And that is now my unique ID for the no agenda podcast.

1:18:35 This is DNS is exactly the same thing. Okay, Dave Jones: the part I was struggling to understand. Yeah, the part I was struggling to understand is the D Kademlia. Part, the DHT space. Because that fits in, like, what this is fits in? Well, because we're the vision that we had is is a DHTs space for the index. So I mean, this this, and we're using live p2p. Yes. Adam Curry: And it has it runs on relays. So you know, obviously we need to we need to have relays but Dave Jones: Well, I think the relays if I'm the the length that I got to with my understanding of this of of Kademlia was that the relay is that that is the DHT space that bit torrent nodes use. So I think, Okay, this is the this is the part I did not understand is I don't know if that means that all Bit Torrent nodes would be inherent P core compatible nodes.

1:19:46 Adam Curry: This I don't know, but I have no Dave Jones: that's where I that's where I got lost is because it's the same. It's the same protocol. So it's, it's possible that The Bitcoin that sound the Bitcoin, the BitTorrent network is, is an a, you know, like, this is an overlay on top of that. And if that's the case, then I mean, that's a robust thing. Adam Curry: I think it's someone's, please stop DMing me on IRC. When people do that, it's, it looks very robust. And if it comes from Alice gates, it's already pre approved. Yeah, Dave Jones: right, it comes with the seal. And Adam Curry: you can add record, you can add multiple records into your key. So you can have all kinds of interesting stuff in there. And then anybody can run a deep this DHT relay.

1:20:45 Clearly, it's working. They do have a caveat here that says, you need to republish your records every hour or so otherwise, there'll be dropped from DHT. While I haven't republished anything, and it's still working after several days, so I'm not sure about that part of it. But it's not like that couldn't be couldn't be done. Now that we can't figure that part out. So it just seemed like, Wow, what a beautiful way to have a distributed podcast DNS for all of that stuff that we've been talking about. Dave Jones: For sure. I really need to know where the nodes are. Because if we have to bootstrap these nodes, that's a diff. It's not a it's not a deal killer. It's just that we like that's a pretty big thing to know. C says native native application can directly query and verify signatures signed records from DHT from the DHT. If they are not behind Nat, was check Adam Curry: this out existing applications on aware of P car, make normal DNS queries over HTTPS to P car servers. Whoa, whoa, Dave Jones: this is P car, we'll use mainline DHT as the Overlay Network. Specifically bid 44 for storing femoral arbitrary data.

1:22:06 44 Adam Curry: Oh my God, that's great. What does it mean? Dave Jones: That's your favorite bit. Of Adam Curry: all the BEPS 44 is the one that just tickles me pink. Yeah, Dave Jones: cuz here's this is mainline DHT is the name given to the Kademlia based can distributed hash table used by Bit Torrent clients to find peers via the BitTorrent protocol. It's Adam Curry: a bit torn out is the BitTorrent hash base. You're right. Yeah. So Dave Jones: I guess that's, that's really my question is I need to figure out if that means that these that that's where this, these if that's where all this these key value pairs are being stored? Yes, Adam Curry: I think so. It looks like it. Okay. Yes. It's, it refers to bet five. She remember that one. Okay.

1:22:53 Dave Jones: Everybody remembers that? She was crazy. Adam Curry: That five min good times with bet five days. Dave Jones: That chick was nuts. Adam Curry: Remember, she told us about BEP? Six? Oh, Dave Jones: that's right. Eric. off the hook. Yeah, no, this is this is good. This is this is good. Because we writing Adam Curry: this guy has gotten me excited when I was able to do this myself on a web page, like Okay, I just created this, I just basically created a whole podcast DNS record, which can be referenced over DNS for a non for non BEP, 44. Client, whatever that means.

1:23:39 Dave Jones: When so whatever happened with with the IPFS streaming, that that was falling down the last time. Adam Curry: Now I'm still on IPFS. Dave Jones: We had that there. Were there. There were hiccups. There Adam Curry: were issues. Yes. It was course was a core issue that was introduced, then it was at was about thought a lot about IPFS podcasting.net, which I still use. It no longer has that long delay before it starts it there is a little bit of a delay. Been maybe a couple seconds sometimes depending on, you know how many nodes etc. It works fine. The weakness, of course, is IPFS podcasting. dotnet no offense, Cameron. If that goes down, the whole thing falls apart.

1:24:26 Dave Jones: Sure. So because that's the router. Adam Curry: That's the I mean, and I still admit, obviously, it seems to be difficult for apps to implement for IPFS nodes in their apps. So we're using gateways. Right now. All IPFS podcasting dotnet goes through a gateway that I pay for, which is fine. That's Dave Jones: what rss.com was. Was Adam Curry: there. Maybe they may be doing some round robin. Yes. I Dave Jones: think Alberto was was right. Yes. Yeah. Big node. Yeah, but Adam Curry: at least it's not going through ipfs.io Oh anymore, that's the main thing. So, and boy, I'll tell you how many emails I now I'm starting to notice, like, I'll hover over the link that they want me to click some, some, some kind of spam stuff and right there ipfs.io Now this is used for all kinds of nefarious stuff. So on our gateway only podcasts work only those MIME types, you know, so that's, that's the Mark did a great job on that.

1:25:27 Dave Jones: It was a wish mark, it would be great. If Mark could write up what he did. He Adam Curry: actually has written it up, I just got to ask him to publish it somewhere. I've seen a write up be posted some stuff on social about it. Dave Jones: Because we yeah, we I would love to see what his what his final architecture was. And so that it could just be sort of wrapped up and replicated to who else would wants to run it? Sure. Yeah. Cuz because that I mean, ultimately, the if we, if we push into this to this DHT idea, that could also you know, function in that way. I mean, you you could the the enclosures themselves could be also, you know, references to a specific gateway or whatever. And you would lessen the, the dependence on IVF you know, DFS podcasting.

1:26:18 Adam Curry: So this DHT over DNS is sexy stuff. Sexy? Yeah. So you can resolve one of these PK DHT keys over a DNS query. That's Han. Poking, we need to dive it I mean, this obviously unit, you need to take a look at this, you need to think about it and I'm sure Alex gates will have all kinds of ideas, but it just seemed like this is a great way to start fortifying a lot of stuff to start being able to push some of those main things that we don't want to be the resolver for such as Gu IDs, you know, person identifiers, etc, etc. It seems like this is really robust. Like it's been, you know, the BitTorrent stuff has been around for a long time.

1:27:12 Dave Jones: Yeah, it has Yeah, this says this must be the case because it says this 10 million node DHT with a 15 year track record. Yeah, that's exactly it. Nothing else would come close to that I wanted to not be Adam Curry: and you know, add DNS on top of that, which has a lot of, you know, assuredness as to validity is beautiful. Dave Jones: Yeah, like that. Yeah, I like that a lot. I wonder. And he's trying to get Alex back on. Talk about no rim brainstorm some stuff. Yeah. I'm not doing my job as a booker very well, no, Adam Curry: no, you suck. You're terrible, sir. No. And by the way, I wanted to mention that Andrew Gromit has now the Andrew grommet is putting together all this progressive web app stuff on his GitHub and he posts about it on on podcast index dot social, this it he's building this kind of like as a fallback for when it all goes to crap and the apps are no longer possible.

1:28:12 And he's it's pretty impressive what he's building. He's putting together a whole bunch of libraries got IPFS alternative closure, not put into it, that he's resolved a lot of the progressive webapp issues. So if you're looking for it, Andrew Grumman has got it going on. He's kind of our, you know, he's like our ripcord. He's he's building Dave Jones: it break glass, break Adam Curry: break glass in case of emergency. I really appreciate that. And you saw the orbit DB stuff, right? I'm just bringing I did yeah. Yeah, I did. So that's that is that may be something viable to distribute the whole index? It's Dave Jones: it's possible, as I say that usually the issue with most of those distributed databases is that they are, like it said, eventually consistent, which is basically all no SQL databases are eventually consistent as well. That's not that's not something that we could just shift the database to know that we re architected to live on that. Yeah, because eventual consistence negates the possibility of having a table relationships. Because the relationships break. Like you can't have a four, you can't have a foreign key if the remote value doesn't exist. So that's it's just a re architecture that would have to happen. And I'm not I'm definitely not opposed to doing that at all. Oh, Adam Curry: we got I think we have other stuff to do first.

1:29:35 Well, I Dave Jones: think the hold back on that would be we would need to architecture that based on what the interface would be. So if the interface is going to be DHT or something like something along those lines. Because, okay, once you do that, here's what I'm trying to say. Once you do that you have to have you've essentially entered the same problem space as IPFS. Right, you now need you need a you need a gateway into that thing. So the gateway, is it going to be HTTP? I mean, the best probably you need that. So we'll use, we'd have to have gateways, essentially, you know, you have our gateway nodes to get into whatever this thing is. It's no longer is no longer a machine running, running a SQL database, and AST and an API and HTTP front end, it's now it's now a hash. A big flat file. Yeah, it's, it's now DNS servers. You need about you know, you need to be you need to you need to get entry points, gateways into this thing. Right. So I think once we figured, you know, well, I mean, I guess we kind of know that already. I guess, we know at least it's got to be HTTP. Then you got to figure out who can write to it.

1:31:02 Adam Curry: Right? That's Yes. That's, that's the big one. Yeah. Dave Jones: Because it mean, well, you if you. Adam Curry: So we built this whole distributed architecture, and Dave still runs it. Yeah, that's what I want to not do. Keep drinking those beef milkshakes. We got to keep Dave alai que da keep Dave alive. Dave Jones: That's, that's what I Yeah, that's what I want to not do. Because I think we all want to get away from that. Yeah. Well, as Adam Curry: if to restate kind of the mission that we're on, you know, we have given independent podcast apps a place to feed on to live from that. And I feel really good about that. If you're solid, we have a little bit of money in the bank to keep it running. If everything falls down, and B we've got code distributed database distributed. We're still a vulnerability in the whole mix, obviously. And it'll take some years, but I feels good. David feels like we're moving in the right direction on all of this, you know, that thinks mainly because, you know, we're not in this to exit you know, we're not looking for an exit here with the exit we want is to not exist. You know, we want a real exit. It's a true exit.

1:32:17 Dave Jones: And our exit is rest. Yes. Well, for you, man. for you today. Now. Yeah, Adam Curry: for you mainly well. Dave Jones: So that's, that's something we need to discuss real quick. I mean, I know we're, we're getting on in the show now. But like we need to talk about Elon pay. Oh, yeah. Go for him. Yeah, Tim. People may not know this, but we've been right running an LM pay node to support like, you know, what you might call legacy wallets for a while we've been paying for it. Yeah, we pay a lot. I mean, we pay $450 a month for him to for Tim case, hosting fees to run this node for us.

1:33:01 And Tim basically doesn't make anything off of enemy. He's just, this is all this is all basically charity work for him and us. And just to support the, you know, Adam Curry: the value for value, what we bootstrapped was a bootstrap. Yeah. Dave Jones: So we went from sphinx to Ellen pay in the beginning. Lm pays node had problems. And Tim said, you know, hey, there's a lot of traffic coming through this thing, y'all. Y'all are killing it on the on the podcasting 2.0 stuff. So really, we need to split this off into a separate node. So we were like, Yeah, sure, you know, we'll pay for that. We started paying him to run a node dedicated just to podcasting 2.0 stuff. And it hosted, you know, hosted a bunch of wallets. But those slowly got moved as everybody moved to Albie, and to fountain and other solutions. So that that LNP node is pretty much defunct now, there hasn't been any transactions on that node for like, at least a month or more.

1:34:05 So he contacted us and say, Hey, I'm really getting ready to shut this thing down into the year 2023 I want to be out of this game because, you know, it's a risk for him. I mean, he doesn't know what's going on on this thing. He was all just for him. It was all just fun. A side project for monetizing Adam Curry: it for us it was just bootstrapping and we're happy to be out of the game for sure. Dave Jones: And he decided that he's like you know what I'm this is not never going to be a moneymaker for me and I don't really want it to be anyway, so I'm just gonna get out so he's gonna shut the whole thing down. So that means 1231 Let's just you know, roughly into the year the Ellen pay stuff is completely gone. It's shutting the whole thing down is good for us because that means that we don't have to pay that bill every month that'll that'll help save us some money. And that but anyway, the if anybody's still has If you if you have something on LMP you already know that that's probably redundant but if if you have like a forecast ematic I think cast Matic still has like a migration function that works where you can move your wallet from ln pay to Alby into the year that's that's just all going to go away as now's the time.

1:35:19 Adam Curry: And I just wanted to say and I know he doesn't mind me saying it just so you know how value for value works with with the value split? Neal Jones to people listen, no agenda known as the clip custodian. He has been supplying me with clips for um, it may be it may be running on two years. Now how long is how long is Emily's? No, Dave Jones: it's, it's longer than that. It's longer than that. And he's doing it before we started. Adam Curry: Yeah, that's true. And so once we add value for value up and running, then this is pretty much what no agenda gives all of their SATs away. The I said, Dude, I'm putting in for them. See, it was it was initially 5%. Now I'm thinking Let me let me check. I can look it up. I'm gonna look it up. You know, I'm gonna let you out a lot. Look it up. I'm looking it up. Let me I just looked it up. looking it up. And he's in for oh, 20% Yeah. 20. But I upped that it was it was 10%. And then somewhere along the line it upset. That mean, he had like 8 million sets.

1:36:33 Dave Jones: They did this. Just so you know. Adam Curry: That's that's that's actual money. It's like three grand, right? Yeah, it was actual money that had just been accruing. And I'd switch them over to Albie a while ago. So this, you know, it stopped. But it was just sitting there. And it was so many basically by how we even do can't even move in that over the Lightning Network. Like if he so Tim sends it to them on chain. But there's real money yo. Dave Jones: Well, let me look at 30 Look at look at V four v stats.com. I mean, it's we're still tracking daily stuff. And over the last 90 days $38,278 have changed hands. Yeah.

1:37:17 Adam Curry: So is real money going around this network. Real money to value for value, even with the Satoshis is doing something real. I'm so proud of us. No one owns it. No one No one can interrupt it. No one owns it. That's the beauty. Peer to Peer money. In that's why you do Dave Jones: that's why you do things in the most open way possible is because that's that's how you achieve resilience. Adam Curry: We love it. We love it. Alright, let's thank some people. Dave Jones. I'm gonna go through some of these live boosts that we've gotten. Steven B 12345. We did the blueberry 11,000 1100 Sam Sethi with 1000 We got that one nice row of ducks. 22,222 from hard hat. And he says your ad here. Sure, put 22,000 SATs you can 10,000 from Sam Sethi my time and attention has value. Today advertisers give me no value for my time and attention. They want it for free. Using V for free advertisers could pay me SATs per minute to listen to adverts, aka reverse wallet switching. If I skipped forward they stopped paying but if I listened they pay podcasters can take a split for serving the advert to their listeners that this has always been. We've always talked about this being a possibility. And of course, it makes nothing but sense. By the way, I wanted to mention Dolby das came up with an interesting new term which I

1:38:52 thought would be worth mentioning. You know Dolby dasa says RSS blue.com. And they have valued time splits, also known as magic wallet switching technology. And the way he sets it up, is he the he does it with chapters. So when you're playing a song, or have another person come on, you set a chapter marker and that chapter marker under the hood, that creates the wallet switch to the remote and back and he calls that super chapters and I like it. I like to buy like super chapters because the Super Chat so the chapter marker becomes your value time split marker that may not be appropriate for everybody. But in general, I think that's pretty good. I think it's pretty good. I like it.

1:39:44 Dave Jones: I get Yeah, it's it's some Yeah, I can see it. It's from some people. Yeah, it's just another option. Yes. Yeah, it just Adam Curry: it sounds cool. But what are you super chapters? Oh, that's where the wallet switches? Yeah, super chapters. Exactly. We have served Ryan in London 21,948 or 219 48 Israeli freedom boost brother you're in our prayers ceasefire over back under rocket fire he says and he's of course is in Israel and so your prayers are with you brother so stupid stupid stupid wars so stupid we need to make peace profitable again that's how we'll stop this stuff. Dave Jones: Amen Adam Curry: We have so let me see 33 over 10 Boys sends us SATs from breeze 12345 Spaceballs boost face balls.

1:40:40 What is face balls come up? Dave Jones: I don't know is that something we talked it must have been I know. That sounds familiar. Yeah. Adam Curry: One on One SATs from Sam sathyu says can't let this was some discrepancy we talked about he says I can't listen to you live at the time. 6:25am local time. But I mean I set it to 1225 Looks good. See? Ya look good look. But we have let me see. That's it. That's it for our booths were current. So you can take it away from what you've got from your now fixed system. Yes, Dave Jones: we are receiving emails again. We've got no one off donations from PayPal this week. So straight to booster grams. We go we start with chyron 2222 from the mere mortals podcast or curio kasseri says Adam Curry: sorry, I hit the dock I hit the dock Dave Jones: I was frozen waiting for this. So a couple of pain points I've personally had recently if I switch to using if I switch from using something like contracts to fountain and soon pod fans for providing my value blog info, how does the index know which to use if I ever want to move a show like mere mortals which has lots of different episodes splits from Buzzsprout to a host that supports the value tag I need a way to direct them to the feed with all the add ons. So a general export or linkage from the PI feed would be useful so that's that's an easy one if you just to if you switch away from

1:42:14 a host that doesn't support a value block to a host that does then that value block will go into the feed and we will see that value block and will override everything yeah and all it will suck all that in Adam Curry: so Barry is this way he says switching from contracts to something else? I mean yeah, just you change it in the feed and the N and the index sees it and changes it right? Yeah, Dave Jones: like if you if you're paying if you're giving contracts a split to get their stats then you just switch that to the other person Yeah, Adam Curry: it's you're in control. You rock you rock you roll you rule the man's you chyron you go by Dave Jones: as a Mary Oh Mary Oscar also known as Oscar Mary 7333 through found and he says P Doom equals zero Happy Thanksgiving.

1:43:05 Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you Oscar. fountain Dave Jones: with a P doom of 01111. From Joel W. Through fountain says roosters lives matter let's get a link here I don't know was that a link to oh that's a clip that's a found clip oh wait that didn't go where I thought it would wait I may have to investigate this clip. I thought it was just a clip of us Oh, I don't know what that is. If I didn't know what that was I would I started to bring that next week. That's it linked to a different show where they're talking about roosters are some bad career advice Chad 6969 through found a nice a super awesome Turkey Day episode started strong with chicken gore and ended with TLD to have that will become podcasting lower.

1:44:01 Adam Curry: It will become podcasting. Well Phoebe's all upset on what she's upset about right now. Dave Jones: In the morning, 1200 SATs through fountain says Dave stop beating those cogs. Okay. I knew somebody was going to do it. It wasn't inevitable. Yes, of course. There was an incoming. Okay. Jason from podcast Guru 22 to 22 through podcasts guru, of course. He says thanks for helping us out on X Twitter. Users don't often understand how podcast ads work. Oh, yeah. He got the typical Adam Curry: Yeah, oh, I installed podcast guru which you told me to install curry. I got ads pharma ads. And this is what podcasting 2.0 is all about. And here's the thing though, this some podcasts and I said well, no, that's, you know, that's the podcast, who you know, they're the ones who have a deal with the ad insertion. And these and the podcast got In my face, they're like, Well, you don't understand us. We'd never want pharma ads. That's our host. Oh, okay. So Dave Jones: they're just passing the buck upstream. Yeah. All the way you Adam Curry: know, because we've told them time and again, we don't want pharma ads and we need to make sure that just because you don't understand who we are like, dude, slow down.

1:45:22 Why are you so mad bro? Dave Jones: They will never, ever respect what the podcaster wants no advertiser. Oh, of course he could care less. And once you get what you get, and was Adam Curry: it Megatron or who are those guys? megaphone? Dave Jones: Megatron. Megatron. Megatron, that's probably more appropriate. Yeah, Mike Dell 1701 Star Trek boost. He says tell Andrew to call Mike and blueberry to get off the Feedburner Adam Curry: Oh, that's Andrew Horowitz Yeah. Okay, yeah, I'll remember next time because I get called Micah blue. I think he actually I think he might have talked to me. I don't know it's it's he's in the in the Feedburner hole just like good luck.

1:46:08 Dave Jones: Yeah, call Mike D. Brian Ensminger 1701. Another Star Trek boost. Their cast thematic says AI chat bots are the new Clippy That's right. There the old clip he actually yes. That's it. That's it. We got some. We because we have no commentary blogger because he's taking the Yeah, Adam Curry: he's taking the month off to study on his AI test. Dave Jones: We do have some monthlies. We have Michael Kimmerer $5.33, dribs got the Bruce Wayne of podcasting. $15 Pedro gun calvess $5. Chad, Pharaoh $20.22, Scott Jobert $12. And Cameron Rose $25. And that's our group, small group.

1:46:49 But a solid group. Adam Curry: Thank you all so much, we appreciate you this is it is value for value. That is, that's how we keep this all running. If the show or the project or anything gives you any value of any sort, maybe we know that the hosting companies value it and we know the apps value it and podcast, you should value it. If you do then you can go to podcast index.org. Down at the bottom, we've got two red donate buttons. One is for your Fiat fund coupons. You can do it through PayPal, which is still like completely valid way of doing it. And we have unchained I should probably check that to make sure that although that doesn't happen very it's all usually only Dred Scott, if there's anything on the on chain, and Nope, there's nothing there. Or you can go to podcast apps.com Which I believe is Dame Jennifer registered modern podcast apps.com For us, which I appreciate. Yeah, that's cool. And get one of those modern podcast apps and boost us we love the boosts we love the booster grams. It keeps all the servers running, keeps everything going and let you know that you value what we're doing here. And we really appreciate that. Thank you so much.

1:48:00 Dave Jones: That was evidently in response to a miss, like a misspeak. But you know, I think where you said modern podcast apps.com. This, this is this happened to my wife. They miss me she had me or she does illustrations for lots of things. But she had illustration for one of her children's books that was published, and the publisher misquoted, they spelled her website wrong in two different places. So I had to go read I was had to defensively register those wrong domain names. Adam Curry: Oh, and redirect them to the right, right. Oh, worse. That's the worst.

1:48:45 Dave Jones: Three domain names that I'm pointing to for like the net for the rest of my life that I'm paying for every year. Only for defense. Oh, yeah. Tell Adam Curry: me about it. I have several of those domain names that will stay with me forever. For reasons like that. Yeah. All right, brother. Anything else for the roundtable? Before we before we made a joke, everyone. Dave Jones: Now I'm good at that. I got I got homework to do this weekend on Olympic car. Adam Curry: Yeah, it's, it's, I just got excited by it. Because I just I register a lot of domain names or have in my life. And when I see I'm just adding records, click click click I'm done with this is cool. This is easier than than my registrar.

1:49:25 This is just felt very cool. I love it a lot. Could be good. I Dave Jones: think. Hopefully we'll have questions answered by next week. And we can actually we can actually like do a feasibility discussion on how like, what not Oh, that's cool, but Adam Curry: a little deeper. All right, Alex gates on deck as well. All right, brother. Have yourself a great weekend. And we'll be talking next week. All right, man. All right. Thank you all very much there in the chat room. We appreciate you joining us here for the board meeting podcast. Lesson 2.0 Join us next Friday right here podcasting.

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