Episode 156: Model Drift

0:00 Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 for November 24 2023 Episode 156 model drift hello everybody welcome to podcasting 2.0 What is your weekly podcast? That's not a podcast is actually a board meeting that's right board meeting of podcasting 2.0 We are the only boardroom that meets even on national holidays American national holidays that is I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama the man who will kill your rooster at the drop of a hat say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Day Jones Dave Jones: this extra long Thanksgiving moon yeah, I'm Adam Curry: I'm I'm all you know, I'm trying to get over the over the turkey. sleeping powder. What is it called?

0:53 What's the stuff that in Turkey that makes you sleep? The tryptophan tryptophan they go. I'm on a trip to fan trip. Dave Jones: HT Rossa stuff called H TP five Adam Curry: is it Christ? St. st legal math. Yes, exactly. The route Dave Jones: the rooster thing was quite interesting. You know? We were originally going to eat chicken for Thanksgiving. Yes. Adam Curry: Because you have so many you've killed you horrible murder. Dave Jones: I dropped three of them this past week. Adam Curry: And you even have a term I dropped three of mud dropped you rooster? Wow. You are a Trad man right there.

1:40 Dave Jones: So one of these roosters Well, one of these roosters I'm convinced I was possessed by a demon. Oh, do you know when when Jesus cast out the pigs demons out of Legion into the pendant Adam Curry: of pigs and they ran over the cliff? Yeah, yes, we Dave Jones: know that. We know this is possible that demons can go into animals and I think that that's what happened. Adam Curry: So where did it come from? Where was it before he got into the rooster? Dave Jones: That's a good question. I don't know. But whoever that guy is, he's feeling a lot better now. I wonder if I can find what this rooster looks like. It's like it's got this crazy. Like, the low out of feathers on the top of his head looks like a pom pom. Okay, so Adam Curry: they live with this. Wonder Dave Jones: if I can fund this. Okay, yeah, this this sort of looks like it. Unless you're gonna send me habia this Adam Curry: I'm excited I'm very excited to see your rooster show me your cock show title there we go. Oh, wow, that's an awesome looking rooster. Wow, that is crazy.

3:04 Dave Jones: Here's another look at that guy. This is more accurate to what Adam Curry: dozers look those are funky man what a cute kind of cute dude in a way Dave Jones: no they're demonic they're no good they're no good. So this goes where Adam Curry: do you get these roosters from two people give them to you go by IMG go to the rooster Mart Dave Jones: we we get to this we've got every year the school that my wife used to teach they raised chickens from eggs and so the we get like when they're grown at the end of the year we get them we get their meat we get we get the chicks oh and we just finished raising them here. Yeah, we paste post this into the chat room so if I say is it to this so this rooster like crazy looking thing it can't see you see you know from the picture you see that? Yeah, yeah, so it can't see so it runs around like a maniac and it's it's got his chin lifted up so that it can so that he can see up from underneath his feathers.

4:15 So it looks like a psycho all the time like in so I went out there to Adam Curry: killing him based upon appearance that that's kind of racist. It's not right. Dave Jones: It's chicken racist. Yes. It's we go out there to kill this thing. It's a maniac and we all hate it. It like attacks Adam Curry: your feet. Everyone's like dad go kill that thing. Dave Jones: Even my even my 13 year old she's like she's like God, you gotta kill that thing. So I go out there to kill it. And I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna kill three we got three. Now Adam Curry: when you go out there to kill what do they do? They look they go like, oh, oh, here he comes. Do They Know It? Do they know you're gonna you're gonna offer you're gonna drop them.

4:55 Dave Jones: They don't. They don't know anything. They're stupid. And so they they're just like Hey, cool, what are you doing? Adam Curry: Hey, what are you doing with your hand on my neck? Man? Let's go. That's not cool, bro. Dave Jones: That's a really large knife you have what are you going to cut Adam Curry: his head off? I thought you I thought he just turned his neck just snapped. Dave Jones: I use this. This is the story. I used to had to use a different technique this time. So the first time I killed him, I did the neck break. And it was effective. And it was fine. And I mean, it's efficient. So I go. And of course, the first one I grabbed is this guy. And so I grabbed I got him. And you helped you sort of hold their body under your, like, be kind of, I guess, like hold them like a basketball under your arm. And then and then you make a ring with your fingers. Like you're racist. And then you get Adam Curry: a white a white nationalist? Is that where you live?

5:58 Dave Jones: Okay, sounded like your wedding. And then you pull the head forward. And then until it won't go any further, and then you been the head back and yank as hard as you can forward. So it's like, it makes it just like a crunch. So I did that. Oh, God, it was fine. I mean, like it heard the crunch. It kind of you know, wiggled like they do when they die, and then hold it up. And its eyes are closed, and it's just completely limp. I'm like, alright, well, that's pretty easy. And Adam Curry: then he opened his eyes again and looked at you and went, bro. Dave Jones: You shouldn't have Adam Curry: done that. That's no good.

6:39 Dave Jones: I'm like, okay, sorry. I'm Adam Curry: trying. I'm trying to find a sound effect. Not quite, not quite working on it. Dave Jones: So I'm going to Skull this chicken to make the feathers come off easier. You like dunk it in hot water. And that makes the feathers just kind of release, you know? Go and I'm like, Okay, I'm just I'm good. I'm good. I'm like, good time. So I I lay him down on our deck in a turn to go into the house. And it starts kind of flopping a little bit. Post death, you know? Yeah, sure. Up. Yes. And I'm like, Okay, well, that's normal. I mean, they do that. And then, but I keep looking at it. This thing all of a sudden, pops up on both feet and takes off back into the yard.

7:22 Adam Curry: Oh, man, that must have been so freaky. This thing was dead Dave Jones: dude. It was totally dead. And it came back to life and then took off into the yard. And so then that's been the next 20 minutes trying to catch this thing and it finally goes up under our deck. And our deck is only like, eight inches off the ground. I can't get it. I can't get any still Adam Curry: flopping around down there. Oh, yeah. Dave Jones: I mean, he's, he's like, half dead. Just kind of like, laying there with his head all weird. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, he's gonna die. This is Adam Curry: just gonna know this. We've lost all audiences at this point. Everyone's like, this is disgusting. I can't believe these guys are horrible. I can't advertise on this podcast.

8:08 Dave Jones: No, you can't we're not brand safe. Or suitable. So get but get this. This is a fun story though. Because I'm like, Okay, fine. I'll come back to this to this thing later. And he'll probably be dead in a little while anyway. So I'll do the other two. So I spend the next hour and a half trying to catch the stupid roosters and I cannot do it man. It is like it is impossible to catch a rooster that does not want to be caught in a large yard. Especially Adam Curry: when it's already dead. This is very interesting. Yes, once Dave Jones: they die, then they become very hard to catch. But so I get so I finally I'm like you know what? To me and Marigold are both out there trying to catch these things. We can't catch him. I'm like, we can get our dog Adam Curry: out there. Banjo. Oh, yeah, but he's been he'll rip it apart once he gets it.

8:57 Dave Jones: That's the fun part. Did did not do that. So Oh, but from us on my my dog has seats about 107 pounds now. Yeah, he's a great pair knees. So pure knees there. Guard guard dogs like farm garden? Yes. They don't hurt the animals by their nature. So he got out there and he's just kind of ignoring them. That's what he does. And then, but as he sees me chasing these things, and he's like, oh, Adam Curry: oh, we're Dave Jones: supposed to do. Okay. Okay, both. Yeah, exactly. So then he gets into it. He had these things called in 30 seconds.

9:37 Adam Curry: Wow. He's a bird dog. Who knew he's an undercover bird dog. Yeah. So Dave Jones: he runs one of them down corners and just steps on his wing and just holds it and looks at me. I'm like, good boy. Adam Curry: Good boy. Yeah. So Dave Jones: So I grabbed them. So I had made the dino the killing cone. Do you know that? Yes. Adam Curry: Yes. Well, you just saw Pull it through the cone and the head goes off and you're good to go. Yes, I've Dave Jones: seen rice. So I made the cone. I made a cone at a sheet metal hanging on the tree. You flip them upside down and drop their head down through the bottom of the cone. And then you take a super sharp knife you pull the neck in. Yep, yep. And then the blood drains out. They're dead in like 30 seconds.

10:21 Yeah. And it's very humane. It's a great way to do the after Adam Curry: you chase them around with a broken neck for half an hour. It's very humane Dave. Dave Jones: It's beautiful. To learn to learn learning. Adam Curry: Sounds very rookie to me. I don't know. It doesn't sound like you're a pro. Dave Jones: I will admit I will totally admit my rookie status on this. It's so I ended up with so I banjo catches one. Dispatch in the cone. Good. Throw them in the in the throw the chicken in the wheelbarrow. Next one catches it. Cone. Wheelbarrow. Good to go. Like this. This is like I'm an expert now. Yeah. So then we get a big ol stick and get this thing out. Get the last one the psycho when we get him out from under the deck. Banjo catches him. I take him I stick him in the cone. And give him about I don't know about a minute he stops stops moving.

11:18 And then some neighbors come by and start talking to them for a while. That's been about 20 minutes I go back to the cone. Started to pull him out with his legs. And he starts kicking. He's still alive. Wow. Adam Curry: Well not live. It's just like his nerves or whatever. Right? It's just whatever keeps him Dave Jones: No, no, it is no Adam. It is still alive. Okay, that that's Adam Curry: possessed. That's possessed demon when he's looking at you snipped his head off. Dave Jones: No, no, the head was still on it bled out from the front leg. And he's his eyes are like kicking around looking at me like he's like. Adam Curry: Alright, now you creeping me out now now. It's gone too far Dave Jones: to go full off of the head. You know, like, like, full full full bore to finally kill this thing. It would not die. It was it was motivated. Like, you know, you're gonna say your eyes or window into the soul. Yeah. You can't see this chicken's eyes. So clearly it has no no Adam Curry: so clear. Yeah, it's obvious. It was it was animated Dave Jones: and motivated by spiritual forces. That we don't understand. That's how creepy it was. It creeped me out so bad that I didn't even need it. We just used it for for bone broth, man. Yeah, so you learn something every Thanksgiving.

12:37 Like hey Adam Curry: citizen says my grandparents used to do the five head technique of dipping the chicken above the fermenting wine in the oak barrel until it fell asleep. That sounds like a good idea. Dave Jones: At first, they made a drunk I guess Yeah, that's a good thing. The next time we'll be some will Adam Curry: be smooth, smooth. I think we should use these pictures though. The one of these this should be our mascot or logo. I mean, I'm liking this this crazy rooster Dave Jones: with the with the with the RSS waves coming off? Adam Curry: Oh, we'll just call it No, we'll make that the podcast industrial complex mascot. There you go. The possessed chicken possessed. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving brother. So what did you eat? Did you have chicken? Or did you have turkey? Or what did you have?

13:29 Dave Jones: No, we're, we went to my parents house last night and ate and ate some ham over there. And then we're gonna have like, I got a heart out at one o'clock today. So my kids are coming over. We're going Oh, nice. family dinner. We have ham again. Here. Oh, nice. Adam Curry: Nice. Yeah. Okay, well, we're what you'll do? Well, we went to the Yeah, international arms dealer. He hosted a dinner. It was Yeah, he does a lot of real estate deals to some real estate people there. It's kind of interesting to hear a little bit of that. And we played left, right center. You know, we all have $9 And then you roll three dice, and then it's either left right center. And so if you or, or a.if. It's a dot and nothing happens. If it's left you have to give $1 to the person's left to you if it's right one to the right. And if it's center, you put one into the pot and you keep doing this till eventually the pot is full and one person is left over with money and that person wins the pot.

14:28 Dave Jones: It's kind of fun. It's the arms dealer. So you did it with 100 Adam Curry: So I was of course hundies That's right baby. The arms dealer the Dave Jones: party The party favors at this guy's like uranium depleted 1.6 millimeter I made I made Adam Curry: the joke of like hey, you know we're gambling here we got booze we need some guns like okay brings out all kinds of guns like nah, it's all right, bro. Dave Jones: decal on the tape playing. Adam Curry: This one belongs to Jesse James like okay, all right. Yeah, he had some he had some Cool, cool, cool firearms. Nice. Ah, I was trying to think, wrote down a whole bunch of stuff to talk about today. We don't obviously don't have to talk about it. I'm just glad we're doing a little update for everybody. Even though it's a different time. I think it's good that we stay. It's always good. Adam Curry's number one rule of podcast, people always ask me, what is the number one rule? So the number one rule is you should always release your show on the same day at approximately the same time, which I don't I'm not very good at that myself, to be honest, particularly with Mr. Graham ball was like a floating thing in the middle for me. But that is the number one that is the number one thing because people start to build their life around your release schedule, whether you realize it or not. Yeah.

15:48 Dave Jones: And then we find that out every time we miss a show. It's like, oh, Adam Curry: yeah, people are wonder I don't know what to do with my Friday. I'm like, go out. You go to a bar. We can think of some things you can do. I actually noticed something. Just kind of something interesting happening. That that just hit me today as I was listening to. Who's the guy from pod? page.com. He was on Brendan Brendan. Yeah, it was nice guy. I use pod page for a couple of my couple of my shows. And it's, it's great for someone like Adam me. Like it just I don't have to think about anything I just publish. And as long as I can get all the publishing right, which is a challenge by itself, then it just updates on that page. And it's cool. But he now okay, Michelle, step back for a second work. So we have to full blown podcasting 2.0 native a column native hosting companies are says blue.com and pod home.fm. And then we have legacy companies in various degrees of I'd hate to call a compliance but in various in In fact, I was reminded, for some reason, I thought that Buzzsprout did value blocks. And I was corrected on that. Like, wow, it just it? I don't know if it just I thought their support. Yeah, and they can't do splits or anything like that. So Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess that is true.

17:18 rss.com does support the value block? UI? Yeah, in the UI. And of course, blueberry supports a lot. And I would say of the of the legacy hosting companies. Blueberry, has probably come along the furthest. But we've seen this. So yeah, so then we have the 2.0 native, which I really enjoy, because, you know, all of a sudden, music hosting is a thing, boom, they've got music. But blueberry started with the podcast, mirror.com service, which is really smart. You know, it's kind of a an interim step that for for stuff that and it has its downsides, but it's, you know, it's a it's good. I don't know, I'm curious how successful it is. But it's a good kind of a, I guess, what do you call that a shim? In a way? Is that kind of a shim?

18:08 Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. But a different way. Yeah. Sort of like it a different layer in the stack? Yeah. Now, Adam Curry: just so I understand, when they use the 2.0, what this podcast Mera Kaam, takes your existing fee, turns it into a 2.0 compliant fee, you can add stuff in there, including a value block at the channel level, do they then change automatically your podcast in the index to that feed, so that the 2.0 apps will get the updated feed without having to, you know, put redirects and stuff like that? Or we're in you know, or have two feeds basically, in the index? Does that make sense? What I'm asking?

18:50 Dave Jones: Yeah, I think they do a redirect. Oh, they Adam Curry: do. That's it? Dave Jones: I think. So. See, because here, here's what happens. I'm not sure what to get some clarification from Todd and Mike. Because what happens with these sorts of services is that if you let's, let's say that you're on Lipson, and you're going to switch the pin, you're gonna use podcast mirror, as your new feed URL, so that you can get 2.0 tags. If you if you do a 301 on birth, 302 on your Lipson feed, it redirects okay. Yes, mirror fee, which redirects back to your to your lips and feet. But you know, like it because the, because the the podcast mirror feed is trying to get the Lipson feed so that it can do its so that so that it can pull the content.

19:40 But if if podcast mirror is trying to hit the 301, every time it requests the Lipson feed back, trying to get it back to itself, it can't ever get the original feed. So you can't do I don't think you can do a three a one or a 302 on the original Lipson feed in that scenario because it messes up the mirror server This Adam Curry: does that means that you don't want us to have a loop. But that means that someone has to then have a duplicate feed in the index one that is their old Lipson, and then one that is in this example. And then what is their podcast mirror feed? Correct? Dave Jones: Well, they don't have to have it, they would end up initially with a duplicate, but they would that would should resolve once they change it in sort of like these dashboards, like their Apple podcast dashboard and stuff like that.

20:30 Adam Curry: Right. Right. But but we don't have a dashboard for the index of them that they will wind up ultimately with two. So that's a dupe. But it's a dupe with one upgraded feed and one, quote unquote, deprecated, free feed? Dave Jones: Yes. Adam Curry: So should should it be something that we offer to a service like podcast mirror that they can then talk to the API and say, Hey, deprecate this one, this is the the mirror one is that something that we should consider doing? Dave Jones: This is, this is hard, because, you know, here, here's the issue, if we had a sort of green field, expectation for the index was supposed to be like, if we didn't care about what literally anybody else was doing. We would be, we could afford to be super aggressive with deduplication. Like, when I say super aggressive, I mean, automated, like a fiend, you know. And so then we would take every every redirect, and update it. Every point, essentially, every pointer from an old feed to a new feed, we would follow that, that thread and update the feed URL. But we can't be that aggressive because we also exists to service and maintain compatibility with apps that do

22:04 use Apple as their as their main directory. So we we function as we function in the role of fallback for things like overcast, right, Adam Curry: but but having the 2.0 feeds won't break those apps. Dave Jones: No, it won't. But we can't, we can't automatically follow redirects, because sometimes what happens is the redirect says go here. And Apple podcasts still doesn't is not they have not changed it. So Apple podcasts has the old URL, even though their their URL is even though that URL is a redirect. Adam Curry: Okay, so then when the fallback happens, they won't be able to find what they're looking for the wrong feed. URL.

22:45 Here's, here's why I'm bringing this up. Maybe that'll be easier. I'm seeing as is typical, when when there's a hunger for something. I'm seeing these me pod fans. Sam, Seth, he's I'm not quite sure exactly what he's doing. But he is. It looks like he's building a podcast mirror type service. He's ingesting feeds. And then he's, he has since his since pod fans, basically has every tag everything that's ever existed in the in the universe, is what he's saying to me. And we got a nice update email from today. What he's saying, if that he will make that exportable. So you can then so basically, it's a podcast mirror service. And I just heard forgot his name again. Brandon, Brendan, Brendan, Brendan and Brandon Brandon.

23:36 Dave Jones: I think it's Brendan Brendan. I Adam Curry: think it's I just heard Brendan, I think I heard him say that they are going there. Also, I was considering or it's a done deal. He also wants to offer podcast mirroring service, so that you can then add those feeds, and then our ad add those items, and then output that feed to somewhere else. It just seems like there's a there's a desire to have 2.0 features that is going much faster than the hosting companies can or will do. What Dave Jones: features was he talking about? Specifically? Ah, Adam Curry: I think it was like, I don't really remember. But I'll have to go back and listen, but it just I wrote it down.

24:23 Because like, Oh, that's interesting, because I'm seeing we have podcast mirror.com We have pod fans, you know, Sam is either doing this already or saying he's going to do it. And then whatever Brendon was doing, it just seems like there's the people are moving fast and the legacy hosting companies are not keeping up. Which is okay, but I just want to identify it because people want this so badly, apparently, whether it's just the apps or their customers want, I'm not sure. But they're creating these, which not really, I don't think it works and it's great, but it's not really the right way to do it. Dave Jones: Well, this brings up a larger discussion about just in general, how do we, how do we know which podcasts go with which URLs like this? You know, this, this is just the problem within podcasting. And it always has been is like, you have to sort of independent like identities for what the podcast is. So when people talk about a podcast, they talk about, you know, what I want to go do is listen to, I want to get listened to no agenda. And, but that sort of so so there's this sort of existence of this thing that's called no agenda, that's a podcast, but then that that thing has to live somewhere and

25:54 they don't know. It's like talking about Twitter versus twitter.com. Like, or x versus Twitter doc, like, is it you have x the service? And that's where I want to go? But is it edx.com? Is it@twitter.com? What like, what, right, so then there's this always there's been this disconnect forever within podcasting? You know, the long term solution that we came up with was the goo was these good references. Where it's a born, you know, what's the podcast is born it fought these guys follow it everywhere. But then somebody has to aggregate that somewhere, and we're doing it. But there's, it's, you know, there's still this sort of, like gap between, like, how do I take a podcast and then find out where the podcast feed is? And that's not as straightforward of an answer as it ought to be. Right? I mean, app, because because Apple stuff is a mess. We get criticized for duplicates, and rightly so. I mean, every every directory has the struggle to some extent. But the I mean, if you look at Apple stuff, they're they're an absolute mess, too. I mean, they've got so much just bad data there have feed URLs that yeah, that that don't exist anymore. And stuff, then multiple podcast with the same URL. This is just generally speaking, this is a complex problem. Yeah. Yeah, that has

27:25 always existed in the podcasting. And I'm not exactly sure how to fix it. Adam Curry: But I guess maybe, maybe what I should be saying is none of these mirroring things are a good idea. I mean, get a native host or get your, if you want a certain feature, I mean, I'm just seeing these apps mature. So now I'm very excited about what I'm seeing. I don't really do beta apps anymore. I just I don't have the time for it. I can you get me something in production, I'd have pretty much all of them. I'll use it. And I can say, Oh, I found something. I know it'd be better if I do that in beta. But I'm very excited to see what would pod versus going to do with music. I saw Oscar that, you know, he's, he's optimizing. There's all kinds of old code and stuff. So hopefully, that'll make stuff faster. I see what Jason is doing with podcast guru. You know, this, there's a lot, there's a lot of a lot of development, a lot of streamlining a lot of cleaning up and these apps are getting better. They really are. They're becoming good as apps.

28:27 Dave Jones: I'm gonna disagree a little bit on the idea that you like not to use the mirror services. I kind of think that that's a cool idea. Because then it sort of gets an indirection like you can change hosts 100 times and you never have to actually update any directories right Adam Curry: until you know what helped with the dangers until someone decides Well, I'm done with this mirroring service. I'm tired of it. I'm pulling the plug. And then you're then you're really up shits Creek? Dave Jones: That was Yeah, I guess I would say, to mitigate against that you choose carefully. Well, she's a company that's been around a long time like Adam Curry: Google. I mean, yeah, we all did that with Google. And we use what was that? What's the service everyone? Bernard Feedburner. Yeah, they bought Feedburner.

29:16 And then they kind of let it die. And they resurrected it a bit, and it's scary. It's Andrew Horowitz? Who would who wants to be on 2.0 He can't bring himself to find the time to figure out how to actually get off of Feedburner. Dave Jones: So we have that, you know, we bought this domain a long time ago called move your podcast.com. Really? Yes. Yeah, we own that. It was just a lark. I just had a had an idea like maybe one day this would be helpful. And I would love to have a service that it lives at move your podcast.com where you can say it's just a self service dashboard where you can say look, I'm going to move from Lipson to Buzzsprout and here's my feed your here's my feed at Lipson, here's my feet at Buzzsprout. And then all this thing does is takes the GUID produces a produces an update that other directories can ingest. Once it verifies that the podcast has moved, which Adam Curry: we do with the email address in your feed. Oh, I'm sorry.

30:26 Dave Jones: No, not anymore. But like just a basic a simple service that helps everybody makes sense out of the chaos of moving in. I don't know it's it was just Adam Curry: sounds like the one race. That's why we still have the domain name and nothing's happened with it's a great idea when we can't even get a monitor for our own API setup. Busy. Oh, we got one. We do. Yeah, you asked and it appeared. Dave Jones: Yep. That's how it goes. Archie for from the who's the part time sysadmin for pod verse and Mitch his crew. Oh, really? Oh, that's cool. Oh, he had an he had some monitoring setup. Using uptime Kuma that?

31:13 Adam Curry: Oh, right. Right. Right. That's the I Am I think I might start nine even I have that thing. I've never used it. Dave Jones: Yeah, okay. Yeah, he had a system set up for pod verse. And he's like, Hey, you want me add a couple API calls to this just to check yours? stuff at same time? Are they Yeah, sure. So he added it in there and then set it up to email alert. If something goes down. It's we're good to go. Oh, Adam Curry: excellent. Okay, I take it back. I guess, maybe we're where we should be going. As you know, there was a sam se suggested a badge, a badge, a 2.0 badge, and which, of course, always devolves into the well that can't say certified because there's no such thing, and bla bla bla bla bla, I would like to recommend to, to the apps, you know, you got to learn how to do a little bit of marketing, you know, making an app is one thing. Your number one marketer is the podcast hosts podcasters podcasters market your stuff, I am very careful to always promote podcast apps.com I often recommend a podcast app or no agenda. I know it works, because Mitch is seeing the seeing the the increase. I've been doing it recently with a podcast guru just kind of rotating thing. But a podcast app guys, you know, reach out to a podcaster. And, you know, consider having a featured tab or something where, you know, it's it doesn't have

32:44 to be a democracy, you're allowed to do commerce. You know, I think you're I even told an artist, I said, Hey, you know, if these apps are now starting to do music, why don't you talk to some of these apps? And say, Can I get a a featured position somewhere? And and what kind of value would you like for that and exchange, maybe, maybe a piece of of a value block. I mean, it's, there's this kind of even Steven Honest Abe type vibe that that has existed in podcasting, which, of course, you know, the big guys don't do that don't give a crap. You know, Spotify will G will highlight their own stuff. It's time to start thinking that way. You know, it's like, Hey, if you're going to, if you're going to feature this podcast, have that podcast, talk about your app. That's the way that is the most powerful way to get people to use new apps, not I don't think badges on websites have that much of an impact. There's already a lot of stuff going on a lot of flashy, colori stuff.

33:46 But when you're listening to a podcast, and that host says, Hey, could you please use a modern podcast app? And here's why. And the number one reason I give is, well, I always say I always say in conjunction with you can you get an alert when we go live, and the app will update within 90 seconds, give me publishing. So instead of waiting on Apple or Spotify and waiting an hour and a half or whatever, maybe doesn't update for a day things happen, you'll get an immediate notification, that kind of stuff. And then I'll say, you know, hey, these, because we always have new album art and said, If you want to see all of them, just get a modern podcast app, look at the chapters and you'll see it flipping by while you're driving in the car distracting you continuously. These are great ways to get your, your your app promoted and to promote 2.0.

34:36 Dave Jones: So this is a pretty interesting discussion, because if you think about what an app would need in order in order to sort of jump on the scene, I guess. The the things that come to mind are live. Yep, pod paying. Adam Curry: Which we just call 92nd update, I mean, pod no one understand the term pod ping. But yeah, quick update, right? Dave Jones: Like, if you jump on board with those two things without added Adam Curry: value for value, I mean, that's it. Another big one. Dave Jones: Favorite yo, there's like a few of these little things. And I think I think it kind of starts with a live honestly. Because if you think about the people who would the podcasters, that would do live, they're usually really hardcore and willing, they're hardcore to technical. And they're willing to what they want is for people to listen to them live, if you have a live podcaster. Okay, that's what I'm trying to think of. So you're looking for a synergy between what you want as an app developer and what the podcast or wants as a podcaster.

35:49 And if you can find where the synergy is, like live is a perfect example. But as a podcaster, who does a live stream. They really want people to listen to them live, it's, it's important. I want it, we do this live show. And I want lots of people listening because it really, it gives a lot of energy to the show and makes you gives you a lot of feedback. Adam Curry: But it's still limited number of pod. I agree with you. I just I'm just saying much. From a much broader perspective. Any podcast can talk about some of the other features some of the other benefits of using a 2.0 app. And Dave Jones: Oscar with fountain he found his effect, he Adam Curry: totally found it. Yep, exactly. He found he found his his energy. Initially, that's what we see the thing is, pod verse started initially, I think, because it was the wasn't that Eclipse was not what, what what Mitch wanted initially was, you know, he wanted an app that did better clipping. Yes, not mistaken. So that's great. But you need to get the podcasters talking about your app. That's, that's the thing. That's how we move this forward. podcasters have to be telling their audiences tried to and we're at a point now, where there's enough robustness in these apps that people aren't disappointed, because the in the beginning it was definitely like, well, you know, I miss my my time three times. Speed I miss you know,

37:23 this, I missed that. There's still people who miss, you know, certain or they won't leave an app, you some people won't even app because it does your volume boost, you know, stuff like that. It's very timers, name timers, yes, stuff like that. It's really important. Now, they're usually the most vocal, I don't think they're, you know, that all people think that way. Most people are just like, I'm fine with my Apple app, it works. So then find those, find those things that your app is particularly good at. And so pod verse works great with, with alerts, and, and it's updated very quickly through the pod ping mechanism. But then reach out to podcast hosts reach out to the podcasters and say, hey, I'll give you a feature. If you mentioned my app. I mean, this is the kind of stuff we need to be thinking about.

38:08 Dave Jones: Yet build to if you're when you're a developer build to a build to what somebody wants. Find out what your what if your podcast app, find out what find a set of podcasts podcasters that want a certain thing, build your app feature to the thing that they are wanting. And then you have a built in advertiser you have built in advertising. Yeah. Is the same way with pod with podcasts. And I think it's easier to do that than it is to do it with podcast listeners.

38:50 Because most because of the like you said the most the podcast listeners, the ones that are really vocal about certain features. They're usually not representative of the masses. Their peers will Adam Curry: people will go to the end of the earth to do something their pot their favorite podcast, or ask them to do they buy stupid products they don't even need because the podcaster says, hey, buy this product. Here's my code. So when someone says try out this app, I really like it. And I like it because hey, I'm featured even if it's just that I'm featured this month, tell a friend etc. The podcast the podcaster has the power and apps have always tried to go to the listener.

39:36 Yeah, I was like well, those are my users. Yeah, they're either you use they're your users, but they're really only complainers. the only the only gonna tell you it sucks. That's that's the main reason you get but asking the podcasters themselves and do a business deal. You know, it can be it doesn't know money has to change hands, but it can be a great way A to give the podcaster a benefit of being featured, or whatever, whatever it is. Dave Jones: Yeah, I think that's a, I think that's a great point because you just have to find you have to find some. I don't know. You have to you have to put a rock in somebody's shoe.

40:22 Yes, yes, no. And the way you do that is, is you find your you find your gap, you find that gap, and you meet a need. And then, and also, when you're meeting a need, that's been this clear. And then sort of that you can see, it's easier to build, build a feature. If you just build a feature, sort of like in a, in a clean room for where you don't have an actual live real world example of the thing you're trying to solve. Sometimes it gets muddy, and you're not actually solving it in the way that you don't have enough feedback. You just don't have enough feedback from the from the people you're trying to solve the problem for because they're not there's not any.

41:11 Yeah, exactly. You're just writing to a spec. You're not actually writing to solve a problem. Yes. Adam Curry: It was like this. This Ainsley Costello just loud concert in Minneapolis that's coming up that's going to be lit, which is very much which will be built on the work that I think certainly Mitch did for the pod con Mexico. They're going to do it lit. Looks like that's going to happen. And everyone now oh, wait a minute. So that's actually podcasting. 2.0 that's sending those Satoshis Oh, okay. Yeah, we should probably talk to those guys. So finally, Dobby Dawson, I think is doing the RSS feed. And I'm not sure it looks like it's all gonna gonna work out. And so that'll be a lit live show with streaming value for value. Believe me, you what you want is you want Ainsley Costello out there promoting the apps that will work. Yes. And so reach out. It's it's not hard to find her manager. That's not hard to find. And get in touch with Julie and say, Hey, we're going to be featuring this.

42:13 We're going to be showing it live. Please have Ainsley and they also need to do their work and not be just like, oh, yeah, it's gonna be a screaming No, the here's the podcast apps that is going to is guaranteed going to work on because those apps are dedicated to making it work. Dave Jones: Yeah, you can see the the apps and the hosting companies that have a sort of a real purpose that they're trying to solve, because they have they have a real clear path forward in front of them. Yes, they do identify a thing, and then they then they write, they, they identify a thing, then they build something that solves that problem.

42:53 Adam Curry: Yes. And I'm excited. I'm excited to see even with these with these native 2.0 and I'm gonna add blueberry in there with the native 2.0 hosting companies. You know, they get it they're built, they're building something new and this is where the the artists are going to go. And, and I'm telling you, wave Lake has got to fix their booster gram stuff. Because people it may be easy, but people hear about stuff and like wow, how come I'm not seeing booster grams? How come I can't do this? How come I can't do that. Dave Jones: So when you say fix the bridge grim stuff, you're I think you're talking about the fact that the wave like artists can't see their messages.

43:34 Adam Curry: Well, interestingly enough, I found out that if you go to the artists page, you will see booster grams coming through as comments identified as key send zero sets. So the boosted gram comes through. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that mean? Well, that means is that means that they're showing the booster gram as a comment so that they've made the connection. And so it's a it's a public comment, which is great. But then it shows zero SATs and literally says zero SATs. And it says from ki Sen, where it could say, this is the podcast and I'm not going to accuse anything but being it looks like obfuscation, say why don't you just add the field that came from this podcast link or this episode link? And here's the number of sets. But it doesn't seem like that's a lot of extra work if you're already bringing through the booster gram.

44:29 Dave Jones: So it's odd to me that it wouldn't show the total that came like Adam Curry: because they've chosen not to. I think that that's that seems like a choice. And it looks dumb Dave Jones: or a bug or not Adam Curry: because the okay could be a bug. But you're already pointing in there. From Keith and you're already taking the the booster Graham TLV. Why not just put in there it came. I mean, are we so horrified to say that it comes from a podcast is or is it just no time, I don't understand it. And that's half the fun, half the. So now I'm on booster Grand Ball saying, Please, in your message, put the amount of Satoshis you sent and tell him where you were where this was from that this was from booster gram ball episode 15. I shouldn't have to do that Dave Jones: as odd if Michael or Sam, let, shoot, if you don't mind, shoot me a message tell me what that's about. Because if there's something because I can think you could say that, well, I don't trust the SAT total that's in the TLV because that's our because that can be manipulated. But then the invoice itself should be settled. And that is not, that's not manipulatable Adam Curry: another another big thing is the actual on this.

45:54 This is very clear even value for value dot info. A big part of value for value is the numerology of it. So when sending you 333 777-719-4869 69 I mean it can go on and on. It's a big part of the fun is, is you're robbing people of joy killing their roosters, I can understand that they don't want to confuse people because they take their 10% but I mean, how confusing is it? It's like okay, I see what caveman I just have to subtract 10% in my head. That's fine. I don't think people be mad about that. But you know when I when I hear that, Michael the guy from First Avenue Avenue one First Avenue, I think the venue in in Minneapolis. You know, he was used at noster Asia Nastasya saying, yeah, now I'm working with Adam curry. And those guys, we're gonna get the live stream up. And then I see the using zap streams with has which has nothing to do with what we're talking about. And I see big shows getting, you know, 200 SATs, streaming with two people watching and like not well knew maybe you want to, and he just didn't know. People don't know what they don't know. They don't know. And when and when they're on when we're onboarding people that don't know that hey, there's this is how the system is working. Which should be everybody should be happy about

47:25 it. Just feels weird. Dave Jones: It, it feels weird. to It feels weird to show zero. To show zero like yeah, just don't show it at all. I mean, just say that. It's a comment, like Adam Curry: I don't know. It's weird. It's weird. Let me see if I can get so Joe Martin. Thank you. And I know Joe Martin, who? People just don't know, he did this hour long interview and podcasting wasn't mentioned once. And I think that he's the he's the first song we played and sent him hundreds of 1000s of SATs or I should say Dred Scott did. And like, does he just not know where it's coming from?

48:11 Dave Jones: I don't know. I'm Adam Curry: here via Kison pod. This is pod pod fans even worse pod fans payment doesn't even have a name. Dave Jones: And now that's not fans payment that's that's is that a booster game? Or is that just a stream? Adam Curry: Who knows? Here via key send via key send via it's like this? No, no. Wow, that that must be a stream somehow. That's probably Sam sending streams as boosts who knows. Like very collapsing. It's very cool. Okay, so Dave Jones: So zaps show via zap. And I guess. Better and I guess podcast boosts would say via key send.

48:56 Adam Curry: Actually looks like they've dropped the zero SATs thing now. Dave Jones: Oh, okay. Adam Curry: I guess they've dropped that. Dave Jones: Let's see unlucky that via zap via zap via key send. Okay, so that's the that's just telling you this Tony where it came from, but it's not showing you the app? Adam Curry: Or the app or the show or the episode? Dave Jones: Yeah. So that I mean, that's that's in there. I would say that. A good thing to do. These guys is for Michael and Sam is to pull that other to have me show. I don't know. I don't know how nostrils zapping works. I don't understand. I guess I think there would be a disconnect. Maybe you can't tell the originating app. So if you're in Dominus in use app, this app is actually coming from your like for your wallet or your wallet like that. Yeah, kicks you over there to actually do things and maybe maybe you lose that information but at the TLV and Scott Adam Curry: so much busy on record. Yeah, we shouldn't take it if you pull out the booster Graham then you're seeing you're seeing the key send record. Yeah, Dave Jones: I would love for that. I would love to see that things say instead of via keys instead of via pod verse yeah by podcast fountain.

50:12 Adam Curry: How about the podcast? Episode that is from that mean that would really help. That mean I understand you would like the app I'd like someone say oh, that's from booster Rambo. What is that? Oh, what is that thing? is weird. This weird? Dave Jones: Is a pirate radio. Just looking through here and see. Yeah, Adam Curry: it hasn't looked something strange. Yeah, yeah, something's changed. I don't know. I don't see the so maybe they're working on it's possible Dave Jones: by case and by case of as it's so much. Yeah, the pod fans payment pod fans payment thought Adam Curry: was pretty funny.

50:56 Dave Jones: That, that that's from 1116. So that's recent. Yeah. That's fairly recent. So that's got it. I bet you that's their streaming. Payment? Adam Curry: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Speaking Dave Jones: speaking of this sort of native podcasting 2.0 hosting related issues. I've got the first pod roll product. Ingestion product. Yeah. Ready to Roll? Yes. The if you go to, Adam Curry: here we go. Dave Jones: https colon slash slash? Public dot podcast.

51:39 index.org. Okay. Slash recommendations dot JSON. Hold Adam Curry: on a second. Yes. Hold on. Dave Jones: Holding. Okay, I'm holding Adam Curry: what public? Public dot podcast index.org/public dod Dave Jones: podcast index.org/recommendations. Adam Curry: Recommendations. Dave Jones: Data JSON. Adam Curry: dot JSON. Dave Jones: Okay, Justin. Okay. Yes. Adam Curry: What do I get? Do I get a big JSON file? Let's see. It's crunching Oh, the oh, it has popularity score. What is this? Yes.

52:25 Dave Jones: Through the through the, through the mix here Adam Curry: was quite large. This, this five very large, yes. Dave Jones: This is a list of all of the shows that have appeared in a pod roll. So if somebody put their pod roll, if somebody put a pod roll in their feed, we're aggregating all that. And then sorting it in descending order by popularity, which that popularity number Adam Curry: is number of times that appears in a pod roll. Yes, the Dave Jones: number of pod rolls it has appeared in Oh, Adam Curry: that's a good way to game the system. It is it is so like that.

53:09 Dave Jones: Let me run down the properties here. So you get popularity, which is what we just described, you have the feed ID, which is this podcast index feed ID of this feed that was recommended. You've got the GU ID of the feed, which is recommended. You've got the title of that feed, the URL, the feed URL, you've got the artwork or the album or the seed? Did you have source feed ID in source Feed URL? So that's the podcast index ID, where it came from that had the pod role in it. Yeah. And then the source and then the URL of that feed which was the source of this recommendation. Then you have recommended host and recommender host so interesting. Recommended host is the whole the the top level domain or it's not TLD it's the domain of the hosting platform where this recommended feed Adam Curry: lives and then the recommender host is the the host that has the feed that has the recommendation I would say popularity is probably a misnomer.

54:27 Dave Jones: What was what should that be like hits or something? Adam Curry: instances I mean it the popularity doesn't mean that oh, this is a popular show. This means that someone just put this in lots of pod rolls which clearly made me appearances. Yeah, cuz I mean I have four feeds, and I could put it in all of my feeds and then I'd have for right doesn't make it more popular just makes me a douche. Dave Jones: hard on yourself. Yep. The reason that I put Adam Curry: Go ahead, no, no, no, please go ahead. Dave Jones: The reason that I put recommended host and recommender host in there is because immediately I see a bunch of things from this thing called vigilante TV, which I don't even know what that is. Yes. It sounds like it may be sketchy. Vigilante something I'm not sure about that. So interesting immediately, if I put this in here, you can immediately filter out things that you don't want. So Adam Curry: yeah, that could Ah, yes, yes. That's a good idea.

55:44 Dave Jones: All right. So stuff comes in here from pod rolls from like, you know, 60 times.fm or something like that. That's in your in your writing a podcast app for kids? I don't want that. I don't want don't Adam Curry: want. That's a great idea. But see, what is visual? The Dollar Vigilante? Dollar Vigilante, I think is that's very well known. Dave Jones: Is it? vich? I had no idea what this even@vigilante.tv Adam Curry: Yeah, I'm looking at the art at the feed, Dave Jones: peer tube instances what it is. Crypto 101, my most important video. Hey, Ron Paul, Adam Curry: instead of a popularity count was what Pfeiffer suggested, which I think is probably better count.

56:36 Okay, Dave Jones: yeah, I can do that. Yeah. So this, this will grow the we're at like, we're at roughly 500 recommended feeds at this point in the database. Adam Curry: Now, is that enough for the cut off? So we don't remove the tag from the namespace? So I don't know. Dave Jones: I don't I don't know. This. This is this is a so that I expect, I expect this to go to morphed over time as we learn more about the behavior of what is going on in these pod roles. Right. And, but immediately, you know, I think people can can use this, this updates every hour. This this JSON list so people can immediately pin it's not behind any sort of API. So you can just grab it, just Adam Curry: pop it out.

57:33 Dave Jones: You pull it in, and then you can immediately know what is being recommended. You can filter it out if you just don't know she's like, Okay, well, I only want to look, we'll see scroll down all the way to the bottom. You'll see here. This is a good a good example. So make it British podcast that was recommended by some that was recommended by somebody by a feed hosted on Buzzsprout. And the feed that was recommended make it British podcast lives on Captivate. Oh, cool. So here's a good, you know, like you may want you may say, Okay, well, I you know, I want to, for my, for my slice and dice Top list, I want to start with, you know, just the subset of well known hosting companies or something. And then I'll sort of branch out from there. I think you can slice and dice this a bunch of ways.

58:31 Adam Curry: This is pretty cool. This is actually very cool. And I look forward to seeing apps implementing this this is this is nice. Dave Jones: Yeah. I don't think it's I mean, is it game mobile to get on this list? Sure. But but then that's not Adam Curry: well known. But as I said, The only reason I said that is because I saw popularity and the first thing that popped in my head was oh, game bubble, but doesn't really matter. There's nothing to game there's there's no win. Yeah, there's no win. It's just, it's you know, what do people do with this? And I think the most interesting things of course, surfacing other podcasts that I want people to see on in an app, pod page, I'm sure pod page will will do something with that.

59:12 This is good. It's a good it's a great tag. It's a great tag. I really love this tag. Dave Jones: But here it says Tom Woods is his podcast is recommended in one of these vigilante feeds. That is vigilante thing at how is this working because their feeds must have pod rolls and they Adam Curry: do I'm looking at the feed right now. But this is pure tube is it? Dave Jones: I don't Yeah, I think this I think this is a pissy Adam Curry: vigilante youtube.tv Feed slash podcast slash VIDEOS dot XML Dave Jones: source fade you're just going to pick this one. And that Adam Curry: looks like they they have declaring the namespace looks good. What's the generator hive tube Dave Jones: hive to Adam Curry: what does that oh, the hive tube that's the generator I just read the feed man let me see what hive tube is hive tube. The Hive to plugin monetizes any streaming media censorship free p2p via the hive blockchain. I smell Brian of London Dave Jones: spelled you Adam Curry: all right, Dave Jones: I guess Brian, I guess Brian did this and is and all this bear might be yeah might be alright. I mean he'll he'll tell us he'll tell us. He's going to win him. Yeah, but pod roll is just such a new tag. I was surprised that that would

1:00:44 exist. Yeah, Adam Curry: well and it's in Yeah, it's all in here. I'm waiting for a sovereign feat. I know Stephen Bell's real busy doing all kinds of stuff it's on the list. So I'm looking forward to implementing it. Because I got some feeds I want to point toward the Dave Jones: a lot of Buzzsprout in here be tunes.tv What does that be tuned? b e tunes.tv. Beach? Is that also hive Adam Curry: to E dash or just b? Dave Jones: b e t o n s dot Adam Curry: Avi tunes, Dave Jones: okay. Be the tunes. Adam Curry: Don't see that showing up?

1:01:26 Dave Jones: On it. It's yet another another hive Adam Curry: thing now the hive thing? Dave Jones: I don't know, what's Adam Curry: the generator Dave Jones: source? Trying to find it source source Feed URL, you know, have the generator. Have that in the database. I should have just put that in here. Be Adam Curry: tuned. I'll bet you now I'll bet you that's also a hive thing. Dave Jones: At the back, it's interesting that that happened because of the last the last peer to work with RSS that I know of was was all Alex and I know he's not doing hive stuff. Yeah, yes. Hive Adam Curry: to because hive to Yeah. All right. Dave Jones: There must be some fork of peer tube. It's all about hive. Adam Curry: Interesting. Okay, well, the Learns Well, this is nice. Okay. I like it. I like it. Another thing everyone needs to implement. Yeah, quick go. You ready? Go. Implement implement implement. One of the thing you and I talked about, just briefly there was so I it's unclear. It seems like power users had a problem with the get Alby Bumi. resolved. Right? It resolved. Absolutely. But I just want to remind everybody that having other options is not a bad idea. It's not a bad idea.

1:02:45 Having fallback or just making sure you're always out there looking at there's a lot of development in I'm not trying to move anyone away from from get Alby but it's good to I mean, here's something that just happened. I believe nostre is fairly reliant on wallet of Satoshi a lot of people use wallet of Satoshi. Dave Jones: And if they rely on what do you can you tell me what that means that the Adam Curry: users are using wallet of Satoshi for zaps? Dave Jones: I think most like in most most instances, yeah. Adam Curry: Because it because it's easy to onboard as custodial. It's good to go. And wallet of Satoshi just took themselves out of the US App Stores. Really? Yep. They're a little sketchy as to why they do like you should know why. Like, no, I don't really know why. I think because they're a money service provider. They're not they're not a standalone wallet.

1:03:41 Seems pretty clear to me. Dave Jones: Oh, so is did they take themselves out immediately after the by Nance? Adam Curry: I think yeah, I think the timing is, is seems kind of obvious to me. Dave Jones: Yeah. That so they Yeah, if they if they pulled right after that they must be that must have spooked them. And Adam Curry: rightly so. I mean, be a you know, so what did binance get popped for for money laundering, you know, illegal transactions? Yeah, I can see why they're worried about that. Dave Jones: Absolutely. Me too. You know, so Adam Curry: there's there's is that green light thing is the breeze SDK. Does that. Is that? Is that all? noncustodial is that working? Is that does do key send. I mean, is this stuff up and running?

1:04:29 Dave Jones: I don't know. We need let's get Roy back on the show so we can get an update? That'd be Adam Curry: good. Yeah, I'd like Yes. I'd love to just have a light as I mean, I know that he basically is keeping the breeze app alive as a and he's no he's, he's putting money. He's put money into it. People working on it to upgrade with value time splits for the wallet switching technology, which I really appreciate. But he he was even thinking, Well, you know, we're kind of doing our job now as a lightning service provider. So we're just keeping that alive as an example of an Like, you can't shut that down, that's my actual wallet wallet. That's the wallet I use for transactions. You know, I'm gonna buy $500 worth of beef, I'm doing it through through breeze because I trust it, you know, I trust the the back end the service provider piece, and I think they may even be offering some services to to get Alby. I'm not sure. But I think that this is, the state of the Lightning Network might would be a good idea to have Roy back on just to see where we're at, see what's going on. Because they're just relying on any one solution, not a problem. It's easy. And everyone's like, Okay, I've solved that. Just enter your credentials here. And it all works. But I think we need to continuously be on the lookout for backups or better things or, and you know, and I'm sure they get, I'll be guys, and maybe we should have them on as well. You know, wouldn't be bad to have more it's and you just have monitored, talk about what's going on because it it stuff is scaling now, and we're

1:06:02 gonna end and it's working. You know, we get a report every day, and I'm always blown away by how many transactions there are. Dave Jones: Yeah, there's Adam Curry: a lot. And I mean, we're like 100,000 transactions a day that we're seeing minimum on just a regular day, right. Dave Jones: Let me pull up yesterday's thing. Adam Curry: I think it's about 100. I mean, yeah, I think a good day. I'm not talking about number of sets. I'm talking about number of transactions. Dave Jones: Right? Yeah, cuz that's really all we look at the stats totals are still love for you know, I mean, relatively speaking. I mean, if it's on it is on a random Wednesday, you know, Adam Curry: no, Wednesday's is just very, that's the worst day of the week.

1:06:42 Dave Jones: Yes. Nothing going on. Definitely the worst day of the week. Let's see daily report. transactions for? Yes. Well, yeah. transactions for yesterday. Knows 8098. Adam Curry: How many Dave Jones: 8098? Adam Curry: Well, that was that's probably not a good day to look at Dave. That's a Thanksgiving Day in America. Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Well, you're right about that. Let's see. Do we have Adam Curry: let me see what I have. Dave Jones: Report. I usually Thunderbird, which I can't ever find where the folders Adam Curry: when we see what we get from today. When we got from today. No, that's not what I'm looking for.

1:07:33 Dave Jones: Here. Daily Reports. Go here. Let's look at this. Let's get to last week, because that's yeah, Adam Curry: that's a better week. November 21. Key send me a total. No, I'm sorry. I'm I was thinking of SATs. You had transactions? 8669. Dave Jones: There's 9784. That's right. Adam Curry: It's like 10 to 10,000. On a good day. Yeah. So last Saturday was almost 10 and a half 1000. Yeah, that's so that's, that's the transaction 10,000 A day that we're seeing. Right, that we're seeing. And it's and it's interesting to see, because if you look at the SAT total, the number one transacting app does not necessarily have the most value, float the highest amount of value. So I can see just a random day Friday the 24th. I can see fountain had home I guess pretty funny, founds an ad 700 times the transactions that pod verse had. But pod verse sent 10 times the value. Isn't that cool? And like and you can see different kinds of huge cast thematic users, I always see cast thematic users and high value. Fountain is always high transaction low value. I'm always amazed that Sphinx is in there. I don't know what they're doing in their Dave Jones: 99 transactions. It's not like they're not

1:09:05 Adam Curry: alive. It's Dave Jones: split kit, ln beats, podcast, Guru, curio caster pod fans. Breeze, a breeze. 166 transactions is always a good mix. Yeah. Yeah, no, it Adam Curry: was Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I Dave Jones: just think that, like, get really on and ask him about where the green light service stands. Because what I can see is that green light could be a very good I can see the integration in the app in my head. And I need I need a chance to explain it to him and see if I'm understanding this properly.

1:09:52 Okay. Because if it's right then you could you could say, Okay, well if I want a wallet in my I, in my podcasts guru, then podcasts guru just calls out green light spins up, spins up a wallet, and gives me my keys. And done. Adam Curry: Right and this exactly. And then those are your keys. And it's your dough. And you're responsible for it. And there's Dave Jones: no, there's no custodian there. You know, there's Adam Curry: not a financial customer. Yes. And I think there's going to be it's going to be reasons to look at stuff like that in the near future. There's going to be Dave Jones: Yeah, if things are starting to disappear off app stores, then yeah, that's a reason. Yeah, well, Adam Curry: thanks. Good off themselves. I was like, Oh, that's interesting. So the point being that, you know, that kind of hurt, hurts the simple so that a simple solution is easy to onboard people with nos or get the wall of Satoshi Okay, great. Good. People are zapping me it works. Now, you can't just get the wallet of Satoshi I'm sure that the app, you know, I'm sure it doesn't disappear from your phone if you already have it. But maybe you probably won't be able to load on your new phone, or whatever. You know, so these things are worth sharing.

1:11:09 Yeah, yeah. It's a real shame. But it's custodial services. I mean, we've seen all kinds of blips and burps and glitches from a fountain has it from time to time. I mean, this stuff at scale is hard. If that's the same as you know, like an index, it's hard. It's not an easy thing to do. Dave Jones: Well, that's why everybody swit and by the way, we're going to, we're going to start the process of shutting down our LMP node. So that's a there's been zero transactions over the last 30 days. There never was many anyway. But there's we're keeping some stuff alive for legacy purposes. And that seems to have all dried up.

1:11:56 Adam Curry: Yeah. Look how long it took, though. The trend the transition from everyone using LM pay to get Alby the, and when I say every one of them the app developers? Yeah, a year, Dave Jones: a year year, so that we're gonna start, we're gonna close that down. But see, that's why that's why everybody left LMP anyways, because in an LMP situation, the app had to hold the keys. Yeah. And so then that puts the app, the podcast app has a custodian, whereas with LB is the LB is the custodian, and the user has the as their credentials. And so there's no the app is just, the app is just shuffling off tokens around, there's no right. They don't know, the app has no idea how, like he can't access their funds, the people, the developers, so there's no custodianship there. So it's safer for the app to do something like that. And I think if you go sort of one step further and look at, you know, Greenlight, which I hope I bet Alby is doing they're probably doing that too.

1:13:01 Adam Curry: I would hope so. Yeah, I would hope so. Then Dave Jones: you then you but then you take even the last mile out of it and say, Okay, well, now now, it's not even even a custodian at all. How Adam Curry: about this? Why don't we have the get Alby guys on? I mean, we can we can have royaume but why don't you have to get lb guys and ask them what the plan is. Okay, because they're the they're the they're the clear guys that are doing it. You know, I love them for it. And I'm sure they have thoughts about it. I'm sure they're not sitting around going. This is great. This is fine with the fire flames everywhere I'm sure coffee. Sure the day. I'm sure they have thoughts about this and you know, they're they're in the EU so that has different connotations. You know, boy I have you ever seen Fifi Lagarde over there who runs the European Central Bank? You know, she's she's no fan of the stuff we're doing.

1:13:52 Dave Jones: No, is not a big fan. Adam Curry: Do you see this? She's now going around. She's doing this she's she's shilling for the digital euro, the central bank digital currency, which is a true cbdc. And she's going around saying crypto is no good. My son didn't listen to me. He lost almost all of his crypto investments. Dave Jones: Oh, what do you invent what crypto investments? Did he bet there was no details? Adam Curry: No, of course not. She's because she's conflating things purposefully. Make. Dave Jones: What about this digital Euro when that's supposed to come out in October? No. Adam Curry: In October, she announced that they were moving forward. That's what she that would that. She said in October.

1:14:34 We'll announce our plans. They're moving forward. They've all agreed somewhere. They had some agreement. Yeah. Good to go. And now she's out there marketing the idea that it'll be completely you know, we won't sell your information to other companies. No government will have Yeah, sure. Movie group. Yeah. Good. I wonder if there's a video for saying that. She's such a cool man. She is such a tool. Does Dave Jones: the guards on drip to ECB chief regarded miss her son loft crypto kick last crypto cash? What is crypto cash crypto cash?

1:15:18 Adam Curry: What is there? Is there a video video of it? Dave Jones: Looking at us don't cash. This is stupid. Son lost almost all money he invested in crypto. Yeah, yeah, con Jen said it was FTX? I don't know. I'm Adam Curry: sure that's irrelevant, really. But But what I think is happening. I think what we're seeing happening now in the markets is everything's good look, they didn't put by Nance out of business, they could have shut that thing down easily. They didn't write this was a warning. Like, okay, you got to play ball with us. Because they want I think what will happen is everything will go away. Everything will be outlawed. Bitcoin and I would expect Aetherium will become tradable on the established public markets, either through an ETF or whatever. There will be approved companies they already have, they already have an approved exchange that you know, some Goldman Sachs or some Wall Street insider thing that no one's ever heard of. It's just sitting there getting ready to trade so you can buy and sell. And everything else will be out bought. They're gonna be they'll do Oh, no, everything.

1:16:37 Nothing. And I don't know. And of course, please, if you're an XRP guide note, don't email me. I'm not interested. I know. XRP is great. That's the future. It's all gonna run through XRP I'm sure. Yeah. Dave Jones: Web monetization. Web three. Yeah, nothing. There's there's I think in general, we're seeing a lot of I think the I think the open AI stuff is related Adam Curry: to this. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, totally shuffling Dave Jones: the deck. Like you're seeing? Because the thing is nobody's making. There's no, there's nothing. There's no clear next step for any of this stuff.

1:17:21 Adam Curry: Oh, by figured out the open AI stuff figured out open AI. Now I understand what's going on. This is Well, surprise, it's a scam. And the reason why Sam Altman is back at open AI is because that's the shim, we discussed this on no agenda. That's the shim that is the piece in the middle that when the lawsuits come, they don't sue Microsoft, and Microsoft, but they're doing and I know, because I have, you're gonna, you're gonna see the sales guys come into your shop, David, they haven't already. We have this great new AI technology here at Microsoft. And it works with teams, it works with Office. So now when you have a team meeting, it does a transcript and then the transcript will create the AI will create action items, those action items are automatically put onto your calendar. And what you really want those you really want to use our AI tools are tools to create your own large language model, which uses Microsoft as your as compute, which is quite expensive. But it'll be worth the million dollars you invest in creating your own large language model, because then you can have your own system and easily retrieve documents and information and business intelligence from within your own large language model. That's what Microsoft is in this for. They don't give a crap about, you know how its presented some chat bot, they want you to use their compute services to create the LLM.

1:18:50 Dave Jones: I agree. I agree. That's because that is already happening. They are already they are already doing that. Adam Curry: They're selling. They're selling that to you. Yes, I had Dave Jones: already. I was in a conference with my day job was in a conference not too long ago. And many people raise their hands when they were asking if they were running their own local copies of GPT on Azure. And they were then they are that is a thing that people are doing. And that I guess the the thing that the thing that gets the open AI thing from my perspective, I think that they I think that they got caught. And they Altman and Microsoft got got caught trying to get out from under this thing. Because I think what they realize internally is that this thing is a dog. It is not going to make any money. But what they saw what they see is they see who's the only person who's actually making money from this Microsoft. No, no Microsoft invested. They promised their their aspect of this Is that they promised open ai $10 billion worth of Azure credits? Yes.

1:20:06 Adam Curry: Well, let's Can we just say 10 billion? Is that retail? Is that special price? Best Price? Is it just $10 million worth or $1,000 Worth, but they price it at a 10 billion. Okay. Irrelevant. We agree on that. And Dave Jones: what they got at what Microsoft got out of it was the IP, all of it, they're all of it. Yeah, the deal is, is basically they get access to all the IP. And if open AI ever goes under, they get me they literally go on and on and on. So Adam Curry: that's why the shame is still in place. Because Altman did his job. He got the executive order, which is the path to regulation. Everyone's Whoa, Whoa, it's so scary. You can only have the biggest companies in the world do this really was we can't just have any Tom, Dick and Harry doing this stuff. No, it has to be either, Microsoft, Google can't be anybody else. Amazon AWS Campion. So they got all they're all protected. But if the lawsuit comes for copyright, that goes to open AI. Well, Dave Jones: the part that Microsoft did Microsoft is I do not think they're making any money off off the chat off the chat stuff. No, no, zero as a call center for them. Yeah.

1:21:22 What? So what they saw was, if you look around the industry, the only person who's making tons of money off of AI is Nvidia. Adam Curry: Yes. Yeah. And they're gonna end I heard Marcy there. Yeah. And Microsoft is planning on making their own chip now. Dave Jones: Yes, invidious earnings. Yeah. Adam Curry: They were applying Oh, now. They blew it out. Yeah. believable. Dave Jones: Yeah. And Microsoft looks around and they're like, We want to get in the hardware business. Yep. And they in the AI chip hardware business. And Sam Altman, according to reports, was making deals with the Saudis to do a heart and AI hardware chip business.

1:22:06 Adam Curry: Oh, and it was within video. Oh, I didn't realize that. Oh, that's a good day. Good data point. I didn't I had not heard that. Dave Jones: I think internally Microsoft working with Altman was making it was getting ready to make to flip the switch from software to picks and shovels because they need because Nvidia is showing that the only people making money are the hardware the hardware guys right. And they tried to get out from under this software dog that does not work. And they get and then the board was so stupid. These the board like you said there but it's like a cold. No. Yeah, they're so dumb. Like you don't know what they do. In the college football world.

1:22:48 Everybody knows you never fire your current coach until you have the NetScout already lined up ready to walk to the podium and say, I take this job Adam Curry: and here's your link because that board literally grew up with the SAM Backman fried people and the Alameda research girl. They're all effective altruists and that these are the people that do all the Oh AI's. By the way AI eat the world. I should play this. We should play this. Because you're you're a technologist. What is what is that? The douchebags name the guy who was CEO for like three seconds.

1:23:29 Dave Jones: CEO of open ion Yeah, the Adam Curry: guy the guy from Twitch Yeah. What's his name? Shira? Dave Jones: Yeah, here here? Yeah, sure. Here Adam Curry: we go. Listen, you want to? So they so the board thought this guy would be the right guy. Listen to why he explains why AI is so dangerous. And I think he's talking about recursion which results in nothing but your hardware locking up. But listen to this for a second. Unknown: Generally I'm I'm very pro technology. And I really believe the upsides usually outweigh the downsides. Everything technology can be misused. Regulating early is usually a mistake. I have a very specific concern about AI, we built an intelligence, it's kind of amazing. Actually, we may not be the smartest intelligence, but it is unintelligence. It can solve problems and make arbitrary plans. It's some point as it gets better. The kinds of problems that we'll be able to solve will include programming, chip design, material science, power production, all the things you would need to design an artificial intelligence. At that point, you'll be able to point the thing we've built back itself. And this will happen before you get that point with humans in the loop already is happening with humans in the loop. But that loop will get tighter and tighter and tighter. And faster and faster and faster until it can fully self improve itself. At which point, it will get very fast very quickly. And that kind of intelligence is just an intrinsically very dangerous thing. Because intelligence is power.

1:24:54 Adam Curry: Tell me what he's saying. Fast. Tell me what he's saying right there is bullcrap. Dave Jones: It's complete. It's complete idiocy, it's gonna get quicker, faster. Adam Curry: Nobody says we're going to point it at itself. And it's going to develop itself better. Isn't that the definition of recursion? Dave Jones: Yeah, it's called model collapse. Yeah, Adam Curry: model collapse? Yes. There you go model collapse. Dave Jones: What in this in this conference that I went to the there was a, there was a presenter, who was talking about how they had done these proof of concepts where they had written these reports, they transferred these reports to be generated by AI, by the GPT model. And so you could set you could ask, you know, hey, look at all this data, give me this, give me a report that shows such and such. And these are, these were replacements for the reports that they had built with code.

1:25:49 And so they were like, you know, somebody raises their hand, and they were like, well, how do you know, I mean, like, how do you notice right now? Well, you know, we check it initially against the report, the old reports, the old until we become confident that it's producing the same thing. And they're like, Well, how do you know that? Did it doesn't drift and that it's always going to be right, and they're like, well, we don't really you have, there's some services that you can use. Oh, really? Check for model drift and Adam Curry: drift. Oh, model drift? That's a new one. I hadn't heard model drift. I like that. And Dave Jones: I'm like, they don't know you're gonna produce something with with the large language model. And then you'll always have to prove it. by actually doing the thing. It's double the word. Yes.

1:26:36 Adam Curry: It's like, it's like, it's like owning a dishwasher. I always say owning a dishwasher. You're handling the dishes twice. Yes. Whereas if you just wash it, and put it away, you're done. Dave Jones: That is, is dish drift. Yes. Adam Curry: You want to get the rest of this douchebag he's pretty funny. Oh, I love these guys. Guy. And this is so this is a podcast. And this is this is very typical of the of the new venture capital guys. They'll they'll have a younger junior partner and he's the podcast guy. And he'll do podcast with the investments with the with the Oh yeah. And it's always like this is great you know we're so happy we invest in us as good stuff. Wow. And you're the genius and this guy of course clearly from the way he talks is a genius wait until you hear some of the terms he makes up and beings Unknown: are the dominant for our life on this planet pretty much entirely because we were smarter than the other creatures now. I just laid out a chain of argument with a lot of chain of argument of if this and this if this then this if it's Adam Curry: in this oh if this and this and the chain of argument is if this then this then this human beings Dave Jones: are the dominant for our life on this planet, pretty much entirely because we're smarter than the other creatures now. I just laid out a chain of argument with this this kind of person is this is the type of person the Silicon Valley do.

1:27:53 Let's just say the Silicon Valley auto autistic who speaks so fast that they don't even finish their words because their brain is going so fast. Adam Curry: He's on Adderall. Dave Jones: Yes, thank you. Okay, he's going so fast that he can't even pronounce all the syllables of the words because he slows him down he's he's living his life on 1.7x Adam Curry: that no no, this is what happens when you listen to podcasts on 1.7x Let this up unless you become this guy Unknown: pretty much entirely because we're smarter than the other creatures now. I just laid out a chain of argument with a lot of if this then this if this and this if this then this. I know Elijah thinks that like we're all doomed for sure. I buy his doom argument I buy the chicken in the logic. Like my P Doom my probability of doom is like my bid Dave Jones: is this was like isn't the like p values? Yes, yes.

1:28:56 Adam Curry: Yes. P bracket open Doom bracket close his P doom. Yes. And he has one more in here. Unknown: Like my P doom. My probability of doom is like my bid ask spread and that's pretty high. My bid ask spread of uncertainty. But I would say it's like between, like five and 50. So there's a wide spread. I think Paul Cristiano 50 Adam Curry: glasses, so horrible. These guys. So Dave Jones: they heard this, they heard this guy and they're like, oh, man, that's our CEO. Adam Curry: He's got a P doom of a bid ask spread of between five and 50. I mean, this guy's awesome. I bet Dave Jones: he plays video games during meetings. Oh, yeah. He's a genius.

1:29:38 Adam Curry: And he's awesome on the pickleball court. Dave Jones: Now, Stan was some podcast as I go down to negative below one point. Yes, Adam Curry: you need to slow back down. But this is what we're dealing with man. And so Dave Jones: there's nothing left. There's no Next, Adam Curry: but that's a that's a really good really good point about the hardware point you're at. That's the only place money's being made. And Microsoft is probably sick of paying and Vidya lots of money to buy up these, these these chips and these machines, and then they pass that, you know, so they're losing so much profit, passing that on to their clients who we've duped into creating large light. And, you know, it might work very well for for certain things inside an organization. But I'll bet your company and I know what they do, I bet you they're not going to they're not going to rely on any of this crap to do anything meaningful. The Dave Jones: way this stuff works is it always comes down through your line of business apps, you don't ever do anything. It's like blockchain. Want some upstream provider somewhere is going to do something with this and to make their product a little bit more user friendly. And that's it. Yeah, no, you don't you don't develop a team in house to go do this in your standard meno business. That's just not it's just not a thing.

1:31:08 They also Adam Curry: I think they really blew it on that chat bot apps. You know, that's all people see. Now. It's like, I opened up WhatsApp the other day, because that's what most of my family uses in Europe uses that instead of text messaging, and then they got a chatbot in their AI. And it's actually not bad, you know, just for for little stupid stuff. But that has no value to people. It shows no value. And okay, I can see, and I can see where you might have a better script for your call center. I can see where you open up Word. It's Clippy on steroids, you open up Word. And so Oh, I see you're trying to write your resume, you know, would you like me to help you with that?

1:31:51 Dave Jones: The whole Yeah, the whole thing's dumb. And I think they realize it now. They got their stock bumps out of it. All of that's done. And now they need to actually make really real money. And the only way they can do that is with hardware. There's the software, the software upside of this is done. Yes, I agree. Adam Curry: I agree. You know, it's like descript, which, you know, has all this AI stuff in it. Now the editing software? Yeah. And so, you know, James has this, this put out of bad news episode. And this is 32nd gap, and he picks up the very normal, you know, you're recording and screwed up. I'm gonna pick it up again. You know, why doesn't if the script is really AI, why didn't it say we're rip? You left a 32nd gap here? Shouldn't you check that out? This may be something wrong. Where's the AI?

1:32:46 Dave Jones: I go back to the Adam curry metric of AI. is I believe that when I no longer get spam. Adam Curry: Yes, the Bayesian model of Thank you. When will that day till that day is both you know, thank you very much. Why that would be the perfect application of AI. I keep forgetting my own rules. Dave Jones: You forget yourself. You forget yourself this. Let's Adam Curry: thanks some people. Dave, I know you got that hard heart out in about 10 minutes. So I'm going to we only have a couple of live booths because let's face it, we're working through the holiday. after Thanksgiving. Yeah, right. We'll get it's nice. You know, we'd love it Dave and I'd like to catch up to that's really what it is. We're friends we catch up once a week. Salty crayon just came in with 6222 It's the evil rooster boost. Hope you all are having a great Thanksgiving weekend PS Black Friday as a scam go podcasting. Yes. Huge scam chat F 3330 stations. I would love to test an alternate wallet in apps. But Alby seems to be the only one that wants to play ball. I don't think so. I don't know. I think there's I think there's others this is the whole point. Let's go straight to our partners in crime. The lb guys and let's hear what the where we're at where they're at. And I'll see in a minute Yeah, especially knowing that you know that green light may be entered

1:34:17 in already doing stuff with them. Let's Let's ask them what's the future boys? How are we doing? Then we get a beautiful 17,776 a mega freedom booths from blueberry. Nice coming in the pod verse in 2020 I was fired from CATS the musical on tour because of COVID out of that came behind the scheme's BTS three years later I find myself in a similar position. I was thrown from the moving vehicle that is the toxic bureaucracy and landed at the gates of value. I will make my worlds of live entertainment and PC 2.0 collide in spectacular fashion. He is. That's interesting. I didn't know about that. That he was. I would love to know more about what he was doing with cats the musical Dave Jones: on the scheme's. It's better than cats.

1:35:12 Adam Curry: It's hell yeah. I have a feeling he's working on value for value theater show streaming split kit QR codes. He's He's figured stuff out. He's he has a vision he has blueberry has a vision. I'd love to know more about it. Dave Jones: Excellent. Get him. We'll get him on the show. We Adam Curry: need to get everybody on the show. We just reverse it. You and I sit on the stream. Everyone else talk. We'll just listen to Dovid us bar says blue.com 4000 SATs. Sorry, I'm low on SATs. Okay, bro. Just wanna you? Yes, I just want to say thank you for the D duping Dave. Also, is there any reason we can't already established a unique constraint on podcast goods in the PII database?

1:36:01 Dave Jones: Yes. Okay. Adam Curry: Is that the answer? Or is there more? Is there more to it? Dave Jones: That is that is the answer. Because if if two podcasts have the same good, then we need to know about. We need to know which one is right. And if you just put a unique constraint, you may get the you may get the wrong one. We have to We it has to be resolved. That's That's what I mean. Like, yeah, you have to know that there. There's a conflict and then resolve that conflict. It's not enough just to ignore one of them. Adam Curry: So what do we do? Dave Jones: We resolve them. Adam Curry: This is where AI would come in handy. But I guess you and I will just do it by hand for now. Let's just make chips. Blueberry was the head electrician for cats the musical. Oh, nice. Cool. Very cool. That Dave Jones: is a cool job. Yes.

1:36:53 Adam Curry: Did I tell you that I met Steven B in person at the meetup. Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. He doesn't leave his house. He did. He Adam Curry: came to the Austin. No agenda meetup was great. I couldn't stop hogging the list. I keep saying Come here. Let me hug you again. I kept this guy this guy without this guy. Nothing will be happening right now. Sounds great to see. So there's a huge boost here. But that was from 14 hours ago. So why don't you go down our list and let's see if it pops up on yours. Oh, Dave Jones: yeah, see? Well, I've got some get some paper. Hey, pals, Morris. We got Marco from overcast. $500 Marco. Adam Curry: Thanks. Oh, thank you. Unknown: 20 is Blaze Omaha. Ambala appreciate your Dave Jones: brother. In and out. He is. He is stable. Every month forever. Thank you, Marco. And we got the boys from Buzzsprout $500.

1:37:51 Adam Curry: Bala and of course they were the big push behind the pod roll by them. You see what see what it does when you got a big a big guys like that and you go from your legacy to modernity, boom stuff starts to happen is good. And Dave Jones: I promised them that if they did if they built it. Yeah. Will you do the database porn? Yeah, we did. We got got that done. And we're gonna do more. So Adam Curry: are they are they going to do stuff with it? They're going to surface that on on their own website. I Dave Jones: mean, they already do that. It's already shout individual pages. Yeah, perfect. Perfect. Get some get some boosts on this boost giving. We've got the gene been 20 to 22. Through cast magic. He says you talk about dividing the podcast index Allah I Potter, it's almost seems it almost seems like the DNS analogy is spot on. Let each podcast host be authoritative. For the portion authoritative for the portion of the index that contains the fees they host. So if hosters will be responsible for their slice of the index, just like someone self hosting DNS servers. That's sort of the idea. I don't know about necessarily the host committee, but just people stepping up to do this. Here's Adam Curry: this slice. Here's a weird thing. What if there was a top level domain, which do we know is a very complicated thing and it takes a lot of money to be approved as a top level domain. But this this is something that podcast hosting

1:39:21 companies could actually do together. The top level domain there, the registrar, they make it affordable, or at least self sustaining, not trying to rip everybody off like an AI with respect like.fm Come on. Yeah, 90 bucks, but that becomes the the effective GUID. Or whatever we need whatever we need, we literally put it into DNS is that a crazy thought? That Dave Jones: is a fantastic idea. Actually. That's a great idea. Like if, if they came together in sort of a coalition format, I mean, they've already got the PSP or whatever they could do. They could come together. In do a TLD Yep, Adam Curry: you can do your verification through that you can do it, make it make it basically a part of your hosting service. Oh, and you get this name, you get this, this subdomain or you get this domain name dot, you know, podcast or whatever whatever it is. Great idea. Isn't that the kind of the solution then we use the infrastructure of the internet.

1:40:23 We have the the safety, the confidence of the hosting companies Guess we trust them. And also make it possible for Smalling hosts or companies to come in and be a part of that, you know, don't make it exclusionary. Dave Jones: It's got to be doable, because automatic did it with dot blog? Yes, I mean, in that, and I don't think they would have. I mean, if you spread the sort of the cost and the the administration across a coalition of companies, yeah, surely that's an absorbable cost. It's not too burdensome. I would think. I Adam Curry: think of all the things we could put into that.

1:41:08 Dave Jones: Yeah. For real. That's a super idea. Yeah. Well, there Adam Curry: it is. There's the one idea for the day finally we got came Dave Jones: in the end it came in the donation segments. Oh, my God. Yes. See Jean being 2022. He says, By the way, I love what you love that you're driving forward on the activity club stuff, Dave? Yes. Thank you, man. Adam Curry: By the way, Ice Cube Ice Cube soup says Welcome to my suggestion from two years ago. Okay, man. All right, man. Sorry. Well, thank you. Ice Cube soup. Your idea? Your idea? Dave Jones: We'll give you credit. Yeah, the book No problem. Comic Strip blogger. Oh, wait, no. He came in earlier. Let me see. He Adam Curry: did. He's Yeah, he had to do. He's got his big AI test. Oh, Dave Jones: yeah. That's right. So I'll come back to the blog to the CSBs. Long Yank 2345 through podcasts guru says AC frequency boost. I used to be in the security industry and one manufacturer base the alarm system clock on either 50 or 60 Hertz. Many customers, particularly rural ones often complain their clock was wrong. And the manufacturer told us it was because the power grid frequency was not exact go podcasting.

1:42:21 Adam Curry: About that. Yeah. Yeah, Dave Jones: that seems like a sketchy thing to do. I agree. Bill Prague, he's a hive guy. 2000 SATs through founding. He says you are already using a decentralized database with unique identifiers as usernames. You are just not using it for unique identifiers. Heard no complaints about pod things. So I'm assuming it works just fine. Insert hive joke. Thank you, Bill. Kevin Bay 11 722. Through pod verse. He says, Here are the stats I received for hosting podcasts on my IPFS node along with the extra 10k as a thanks for everything you do.

1:43:02 Adam Curry: Thank you. Thank you very much, man. That's kind of you. Dave Jones: Oh, Jean being came in with a 1337 through pod versus as Dave, regarding monitoring of the index, do you have a specific endpoint you would like watched? In the last show? It kind of sounded like you had something specific in mind asking you because I think odds are good that I can do this monitoring for you. I would monitor the the iTunes look up endpoint. That's an open endpoint that doesn't need an API key. And that will just just pick a podcast hours or something. And just do a look up on it every few minutes. Hit it and see if it if everything's kosher, right. Yeah, that's a good one. Thank you, Jean. Appreciate it. Oh, see we got Oh, our podcast. 500,000 SATs.

1:43:56 Adam Curry: Oh, hold Unknown: on a second. Bala. Shot Carla 20 is Blaze on am Paula. Adam Curry: That's nice. I gotta go check the channel liquidity now. Dave Jones: Yeah, very heavy. David Adam, I heard you're pleased prospectively find those pesky duplicates in the database. And I'm eager to try and solve this with my AR skills. And my first check. I did not find any duplicates based on URLs. But should I be using other attributes to define duplicate entries? My quick look at dupes. Based on podcast gewiss guid was shocking to say the least. Yes, so you'll never find a duplicate URL because those are unique. There's a unique constraint. Right? What you can look at is a combination of title and episodes. So if you find a podcast that has some threshold of the same title, and the same in a in a similar count of EPA So titles that both match. So something like, well in the downloadable database, what you're looking at is the only episode title you'll see is like the most recent one. So you can see what the most recent. I'm sorry, it's not tied on.

1:45:16 Excuse me. That's episode enclosure. Adam Curry: Enclosure enclosure. Oh, yeah, that's the one. So Dave Jones: if you see conflicts there also check for there's a thing in there called hash a see hash. There's a few different hashes in there, check for conflicts on those check for conflicts on image art URLs. Blood look looks look around through there, you'll find a good combination that will give you clues as to as to good conflicts. Yeah, thank you for doing that. And they like and paying us for it. Thank you so much. Adam Curry: That's that's a beautiful baller boosts man thank you. I haven't seen one of those in a while. I love that. Dave Jones: Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you brother. And Sister blogger 30 3015 through fountain he says how to Bitcoin bros. Madam. This is this is the last booster gram for me for 2023 I'll be back in 2024 Yo, CSB. Yo Adam Curry: CSB. Thank you so much. And do you have any any monthlies? Yeah, Dave Jones: yeah, we got we got a Trevor and Zeno wars $5 He's all see. Michael Goggin. $5 Charles current $5 Sean McCune $20 Thank you, Sean. Christopher Raymer $10 Thank you, Chris Cohen, glotzbach $5, James Sullivan $10. And Jordan Dunnville $10. And we also got a Kevin Bay donation from the endowment fund $3.54. Nice. He says monthly donation from the endowment Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Adam Curry: Thanksgiving to you Happy Thanksgiving to everybody

1:46:47 who supports Well, everybody in general, but everybody supports us in one of the three T's, which is time, talent, and treasure. And we really appreciate that if you'd like to support the project. If you'd like to support everything that happens here, including the board meeting, go to podcasts index.org. At the bottom there, you'll find two red donate buttons. One is for your Fiat fun coupons through Pay Pal, the other one for unchained. But really we'd like you to go to podcast apps.com, get a value for value podcast app, Fill her up and shoot it over to us. We do note with your numerology, we love all of that stuff. And we really appreciate your support of the entire project and the podcast. And just before we go, because I know Tom and Kevin, listen, these are the right guys, by the way, they I just when we came in, yes, Ice Cube soup. The DNS ID has been discussed over and over and over again, what's new here is the pod Standards Project. This is this is the group, this is what the group can do to have a TLD to communicate amongst each other. So you know, whatever the reg and it costs, like 100 or 200 grand, you know, I think to get one of these, there's and you have to be checked, you have to be a proper organization. You got to you know, turn to left and cough and there's all this stuff you got to do. I have a feeling that this is a very interesting idea for this would be the real quote unquote, industry. And and it will be no I'm gonna have a company like Buzzsprout and have some of the bigger guys all participate in this will be fantastic. What

1:48:18 exactly Dave, but at first glance, because the whole point of this is we want we have special textfields that we have, what are the things we want to centralize centralized through this distributed DNS system? Is it the GUID is I mean, what are all the things we need to put in there? Dave Jones: I think this could replace I think this could become the GUID just becomes the good. All right. Yeah, that your TLD I mean, your podcast gets a to gets a gets a domain, you know, behind the schemes gets behind the schemes dot podcast. And that's just now you're good. And we would put in a TXT record where the feed URL is.

1:49:00 Adam Curry: And can we do verification through this as well? I guess that would be a simple thing. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Dave Jones: Yeah, you could put a signature in there some sort of demark type type setup. But instead of email, as you know, this is solving it for for podcast verification. I think it's does this Adam Curry: in fact, is this a part of the Fed ification of the index as well? Oh, absolutely. Dave Jones: Yeah, absolutely. Is this is like, a fantastic way to edify Adam Curry: the main thing is, it has to be an org, that can't be jacked by somebody. You know, that's the main thing. It would have to be some kind of a real nonprofit that does this. And this is where everybody can get in there and have their board meetings and have all your important hats on and stuff. So we solve a whole bunch of problems. Yeah.

1:49:54 Dave Jones: I love this idea. I really hope. I will be advocate I will be an advocate for this. I want this to happen. Great. Adam Curry: Thank you very much chat room for being with us. For those you in America on this holiday, although maybe we're just a very welcome distraction for you because who wants to really talk to your relatives? I Dave Jones: mean, thanks for dare to Darren T for like, yes. Darren Adam Curry: and Jean. Thank you guys very much. Yeah, I think Darren and Jean, thank you so much. And I'll get my own server up and running. Dave, Happy Thanksgiving, my brother. Dave Jones: Happy Thanksgiving to you. Have a good weekend. Yes. Adam Curry: Have a great weekend, everybody. We'll be back next week with another episode of podcasting. 2.0 It's the boardroom of all boardrooms till everybody take care.

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