How Somatic Parts Work Turns Self Sabotage Into Self Trust with Tina Estrella

Welcome And Big Question

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Hello everyone, and welcome to today's episode of On the Spectrum with Sonia. Today we are going to be discussing a very interesting topic about how using existential uh kink can help reconnect parts of the body to someone's self to help in regulation. And here to discuss that today is Tina Estrella. She was diagnosed with borderline personality, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and clinical depression when she was younger, and then eventually was diagnosed with ADHD when she was 20 in her 20s. Back when she got diagnosed, people did not really understand ADHD is anything but something to be pathologized and treated, medicated for and treated. And even though neurodivergence as a whole has gained a lot of awareness today in comparison to what it was, let's say 20, 30, 40 years ago, there's still a lot of work in terms of understanding it to fully become accepting of it and learning to look at it from a more strength-based model and where where creativity and strengths are encouraged versus a pathology model where certain behaviors if you're neurodivergent need to be corrected and fixed to make the neurotypical population comfortable. So here to discuss her story with us. Welcome, Tina.

SPEAKER_00 2:37

Hello, Sonia. Thank you for being here. Yeah, it's such an honor. Thank you.

Early Adulthood And Misread Diagnoses

SPEAKER_01 2:43

So, Tina, why don't you start telling us a little bit about your early life and what had led you to go and get diagnostic treatment?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Yeah, so like you shared back in my 20s when I was um coming out of puberty and like being okay, you're an adult now. Now you gotta like live life on your own, move out from your parents' house, get started. I very quickly ended up like what had been already like dormant and slowly surfacing while I was still living at my parents' house, it just very quickly escalated when I lived by myself. Was this not being able to handle the world, the requests that come with it, the functioning, how we're supposed to function in this current system? And parts of me were just like, uh-uh, no, we're not participating in that. Forget it. Here's the couch, here's the fridge, it's comfy at home. We're not going out there. And um so I got diagnosed with uh severe depression, uh depression, and borderline syndrome, and at some point they even throw in an OCD in the middle. Um, and while classical psychotherapy helped with the oh, like getting out of this complete shutdown, intense shutdown, um over time I would still have those shutdown moments, and then my therapist they would be like, Yeah, well, we don't know. It did not make any sense anymore at some point. And so I was managing myself for many, many years. Many years. Uh the borderline, there was a lot of drug abuse in it, alcohol abuse in it, all the typical stuff that ADHD people seek in order to kind of self-medicate, you know, in order to like overcome this this this um uh needing novelty, um having shutdown moments, having different dopamine systems than other people. And so over time, I with the help of therapy, I could like start to manage myself, but it still felt so empty. It felt so empty. I still was always like, this cannot be the reason why I'm here. It did not make any sense still. I was participating in society somehow or other, but I still the emptiness inside was still like huge. And so that's when spirituality came into my life, that's when um coaches came into my life, when BDSM started to play a role, and exploring new things just um helped me to find different aspects of myself that were longing to be explored.

Self Harm As A Way To Ground

SPEAKER_01 5:56

When you got diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, particularly, because that's quite a hefty diagnosis to really diagnose anybody with, what was going on at that time that made clinicians feel like that was a that diagnosis was a fit for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Well, I definitely fit somewhere in there at the time because the not being able to understand what is even like going on with me and the world and me in the world, like it led to the point that I was self-induring like heavily. I like had to go to hospital and get like stitched up several times. Because that inner pressure was just so much that the only thing that would allow me to release some of that internal pressure was just like really seeing my own blood.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

So it just did you feel like you had a like a flaky sense of self? Did you, you know, what were your relationships like with people back then?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Oh, it was a mess. It was a total mess. I mean, my upbringing, let's be honest, my family, my birth family, we were emotionally very immature. Like conversations at home were basically about food, about weather, about how school. But my parents were so overwhelmed with their own relationship, with being in the world themselves. My father has been uh heavily depressed for has been heavily depressed for many, many years. My mother was like super avoidant. My sister shut down completely and lived in her own, like she was more in the OCD spectrum. So we were all like somewhere there. Now, today I see my father definitely would fit somewhere in the autism spectrum, my sister 100% would. They don't get diagnoses, but they like you you start to recognize the sure uh the things, you know. And so I think the borderline was really just a it was an outlet way of all that pressure needed to go somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

What were you longing to for at that time when you were doing engaging in some self-injurious behaviors? What was really happening within you that you could recollect?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

It was a feeling of like if I don't do this now, I'll just vanish. It was really just like it was the only way I knew back then to ground. I was so much up in my head, all my energy up in my head, all this drama drama and panic, and you know, and so this like cutting, feeling the pain, seeing the blood, it helped me to ground. It worked, and also obviously, like there was instantly coming this self-blame for it, the shame, the guilt, so it did not work uh sustainably, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

So there was just a lot of you know wanting to feel heard, wanting to be seen, understood, have something you know to express. You wanted things to be tapped into that you felt were blocked.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Yeah, there was a lot of yeah, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah, sorry. No, it's just yeah no, I feel like you know what I feel that's it's uh it's hard when you get those things blocked, you know, and to be blocked for that long. And I, you know, and back then, you know, you so you had you said you'd gone through therapy. What parts of that therapy would would that you got, what did you find helpful before you realized that the therapy wasn't working anymore?

SPEAKER_00 9:43

So

Why Hospital Care Felt Safer

SPEAKER_00 9:43

I was in really hospitalized for a couple of times. I went by myself, like I pulled the emergency brake and was like, okay, if I don't go somewhere where I just can let go of all the responsibility and just be taken care of and and and do some intense work, I'll probably not be there by tomorrow anymore. So the suicidal thing was like really getting intense quite often. And um, so I pulled the emergency brake, and so just really getting out of all these worldly affairs and being somewhere where I could breathe, finally start to breathe, um, was really helpful. And every time I would get um, so they would also be like, you gotta leave quickly, though, because you're a typical candidate for hospitalization. Because at that time I was like, Oh, this is fun here. There's uh behavior therapy, there's practical things we like construct and we play, and we like I it was better than my own life, to be honest. It was more fun to be in the hospital than my own personal life.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Well, that is something that you normally don't hear from people who go to the hospital for sure. Most people thought it was a hellhole, but yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Um, for me, it was just like it was there was there was a company, there were people that understood me. I would see that like I'm not the only one, you know, I'm not the only one with those issues. So I think it depends on how far down you have like fallen into the rabbit hole. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

So you did a lot of group therapy, it seems like where you were learning skills, whether it's like emotional regulation or exactly, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

I mean, I was having yeah, yeah. I was starting to have those conversations with people that I was so craving, I didn't even know I was craving, you know. It never occurred to me that this is a possibility to have these kinds of conversations with people, talk about your emotions, talk about what's going on inside of you, because we didn't have that at home.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

And what was it like to have that eventually come, you know, uh to be in that environment where you were, you know, around people who understood you and to have your feelings heard and be able to feel things?

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, it started, I started to like really like come out of this internal collapse. I mean, every time I went back into the hospital, I was just like completely imploded internally into like this nothingness. And so going there and talking with people and having like shared community um practices like working with wood or doing some art stuff, you know, it gave me this sense of oh, there is actually beautiful things in the world that you can experience. It's not just shut down, not good enough, everything is going to shit all the time. So it gave me this idea of like, oh, there's you can there's things to do in the world. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

What were things that you started to realize about yourself as you were starting to recognize your strengths and abilities and the fact that you can do things and not feel like you have to be enclosed in suffering, so to speak?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

So at the time I didn't connect the dots fully yet. Um that came later when I had like, so every time you go out of the hospital, you're like encouraged to take continue private therapy, which I did. And so it took a while to find the right therapist that would work really with me, that would like, because I was always kind of manipulating them as well. That's also one typical ADHD thing. Like, you you tell them exactly what I want to what they want to hear to make them feel like they're a good therapist, but results did not come through. So every time I went back to hospital, I was like, I don't know, is this really working out? I'm back here again. You know, I was I think what really woke up in me was this was this inquiry, this being, okay, other people don't seem to struggle that much. I want what what they want. I I want to know what what is like how what's different with me, why am I struggling so much all the time? And this sense of this is not what my life is supposed or meant to look like also like arose, you know, like there's other options, there's there's gotta be other options.

Dropping The Victim Loop

SPEAKER_00 14:44

And so finding a therapist, then uh who really was unapologetic with me and um didn't allow me to manipulate her. She was like, Okay, Tina, yeah, fine, I hear you, yes. And you told me the exact same thing last week. What has changed? What did you change? And I was like, Oh, wow, true. What did I change? So she was really the one that kind of poked on that self-responsibility. Like, it is your life. If you want to change it, you gotta start making changes that allow you to go somewhere else, other than always going back in the loop of like being in the hospital, enjoying time there, uh, getting kind of kicked out because you like it too much, then going out into your private life, and somehow things, you know, get like downhill again until you go back to the hospital. She was like, Tina, you want to change that? We gotta, we got you, you gotta, we gotta change some things. So that self-responsibility was awoken kind of a thing back then.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

And when you learned about self-responsibility the first time from this therapist who really was more of a you know problem-solving approach, let's fix this together kind of thing. What was something you realized in that process of change? And what did you realize you needed to change?

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Oh, it took me still quite a while. There was still a couple of years, not if not mentioned, even decades, to like fully get to the notion of like, damn, I have been like bathing in the victim position for so long. Maybe it's time to play a different game. Maybe I want to take really ownership of my life and start to change in a way that um is sustainable. It it took me a while. I still had like a bit of borderline, a bit like not, but I never would like collapse that badly anymore until then at some point I realized, okay, well, there's even more. I'm I'm kind of in maintenance status right now. I'm doing my job, blah, I'm being a functioning, functioning citizen. Yet happiness, true happiness, is that what I call it? I don't, I don't think so. So slowly, slowly over time, I realized like even this is there's more. I I got to this knowing, deep inner knowing, there's more for me. I wanted, I guess who? I guess who could show me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

And when you came to that deep inner knowing that there is more for you, what were things that came to mind that you started to realize was out there that you hadn't thought of or seen before?

BDSM As A Turning Point

SPEAKER_00 17:59

So at that time, I um I got, I think it it was really like that. I got to introduce to BDSM. And I got really curious because I was still self-induring, not that heavily anymore, but it was still happening, and it was still something that I kind of didn't want to do anymore. But when, like, you know, shit to the fan, it was still going on. And so BDSM was really part of this transitioning healing journey of finding new ways to express in in more healthy containers. Um that wild inner shakti thing inside of me, you know, that fantasies, those it was naughty, it was forbidden, it was adventurous, obviously. My parents cringed. So uh that was oh, sounds like fun!

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Sign me up. So, how did you get introduced to BDSM? And was there a place that you would be going to get that?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I I don't even know. I think a friend of mine that I was visiting, she talked about Shibari, and she was meeting some people for um, you know, practicing Shibari together, and I had seen pictures somewhere uh on the internet probably. And um then that was like, oh wow, when we got there, and all those people, and they were also different, and it was also taboo, and that was like, oh, this sounds like you know, that excitement, it was there. So ADHD people always are looking for a lot of excitement, and I I found it there without all that harming, um self-hurting uh context, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Now,

What Existential Kink Really Means

SPEAKER_01 19:48

currently to this day, you do you practice as extension kink with people.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, that's a coaching forum that sounds very BDSM-like. I really liked it because to me, coming from BDSM, it made a lot of sense. But we do not actually go into BDSM context or uh sexual context or whatever. It's just the word is um so existential kink. It expresses that there are subconscious parts of ourselves who like weird stuff that the logical mind says, why? Doesn't make any sense. And so that is per se the definition of kink in in the sexual context, is like engaging in in um practices or in shared experiences that the logical mind would say, Why would you let yourself tie up and spanked? Does not make any sense, and yet there are parts of us who like, oh my god, yes, the best thing I've ever done. And so, in this coaching um approach, we go there, we help, I help people connect with those parts inside of themselves who keep them in stuck in patterns where they're like, I don't know why I'm doing this thing still, I don't want to do this thing anymore, but yet I find myself there again and again and again. So who is that inside of you who's like, yeah, sounds like a great idea, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

So, what

What A Session Looks Like

SPEAKER_01 21:25

would like a typical session look like? So let's say somebody comes to you and they said, Tina, you know, I'm looking to, you know, I'm suffering, I've been suffering with depression, or you know, I've been struggling with various mental health issues throughout my life, and I'm looking for perhaps a new alternative to psychotherapy or a different way, a different approach. And what would that look like in a session for somebody? Like what like what would like a sample be?

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah. So there's there's so many, there's not one fits uh um saves all, obviously. Um it's so what we do is we look and find out what is that they actually want to change, how they would know that it has changed, how would they like where do they want to go? Like, what is something that you want to get out of this? Because very often people, me included, still to this day, I'm getting better at it, but still, we often know what we don't want. But then when you like, so what is it that you want? You're like, huh. So really excavating those desires of where you want to go, what you want to experience instead of the thing that you don't want anymore. And then we like go inside and we we are help people now. Like inside of them and connect with those parts and have a just have a conversation. It's really coming down to having conversations with your parts who are very lost. They're trying to give you something beautiful. So, like the concept of this full approval is like there's no such thing as an inner enemy. Your part doesn't mean you harm. It's just their way of trying to give you something beautiful, like inner peace or love or belonging. Just their way of trying to give it to you. It somehow got like twisted on the way, and they're not aware that there's something different. For those parts, there is no different opportunity, even no option. So we uncover this and we help to reconnect really with those parts of our psyche so we can yeah, ease the path to create some new uh patterns, to create some new habits without all the oh my god, the internal struggle and conflict, you know?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

So when you help people reconnect the parts to themselves that you know, so that they can learn to show and show themselves more love and appreciation instead of having to resort in self-damaging or self-injurious behaviors. Is this done more through like a meditation that you do with them? Or is it that you have them feel their body? Like, is it any of that?

SPEAKER_00 24:19

It's there's it's a combination of things. So it's very, it's it's a very somatic process. We really go like into the sensations of the body and what do what are what what they're feeling when these things come up, when they imagine themselves in the situation, for example, that they're reacting in a way that they would rather not do this thing. Um, then I guide them really, I just hold the space pro for them. I hold the containers so they can go really fully inward and really um um yeah, talk to themselves actually, talk to them to their own inner uh parts of their psyche. And then there's also a lot of um practices involved that I have them do at home, like some journey stuff, some um, well, a series of practices that we um move through together, but they do their parts at home, and then we share what what came out of it and the experiences, and there's a there's a close um connection uh while I'm not there all the time.

unknown 25:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

So it's like they have a lot of like so you sign them basically like homework before the next one.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, I don't really like the word homework because so from when it's very badly connotated, you know, like sitting at your desk and doing it's it's but in the end, it's kind of homework. It kind of is, it kind of is, but it's more fun, it's a lot more fun. Those practices can be like really like self-re like there can be such a revelation when you're like, oh, never thought about that. Wow, you know, like getting to know yourself better, it can be really fun.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

So, what brought you then to start doing this work in the first place, the existential kink?

Finding The Method And Training

SPEAKER_00 26:17

So, yeah, well, in my perspective, the universe is always like guiding you to the options that could work for you. The question is like the doors are always being shown to you. Do you walk through them or not? That's your your choice. And so I was already in different coaching um containers and with other mentors and uh doing a lot of the yogic stuff and meditation and other things. And again, every time I I was hitting kind of a threshold, I was like, I don't know, I feel there's more, but what I'm currently doing is not giving me the results that I'm looking for. This is also what I always encourage people to check, like if what they're doing is giving them the results that they're looking for, because that is always a good sign of does this work for me? You know, people ask me, will this work for me? I'm like, I don't know. Try it out. If it gets you what you want, amazing, it worked, you know. And so um, there was there was this time where it's like, I don't know, I think I like procrastination, for example. I was still a heavy procrastinator, I knew already what I wanted, but somehow I would hit this wall of like actually doing it. And then existential kink was just someone wrote it somewhere, mentioned the book briefly, and all my alarm signals, all my ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-d-ding. You know, the neolit went on, and we're like, oh my god, oh my god, I gotta search, I gotta look, what is this? It was just this this threat of curiosity that really pulled me in. And then I got the book and I read it, and I was like, this is it. This is what I have been looking for.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

And so you got the book, you learned everything about what was what it involved, what it entailed, and it was very much it resonated with you. And then you started It made so much sense. It made so much sense, yes. And in the process of like when you then started using this with clients, what came up for you in the process? How do you feel like you've also grown with your clients while doing this?

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Oh, so yeah, well, back at the time I wasn't even coaching yet, I was uh being coached myself, so I like with that, there was a coaching community involved. So I I joined that coaching community because I had kind of outgrown the one I was in. And so I joined that coaching community, and within that community is when they uh offered also um uh coaching training for six months. And at the time I already had the desire to coach other people, and I realized very quickly, though, that being coached and being a coach is not the same thing. Just because you like uh cake doesn't mean that you're like capable of actually baking one that's tasty, you know. And so I was like, okay, maybe maybe I do a baking course for like, you know, I realize like coaching, there's a certain skill set that uh is uh wise for you to have if you want to be a good coach and uh and uh uh someone that gets people results, that's the whole point. And so I did that. I did a six-month uh um certification, and now I'm using it. And

Building A Business Meets Resistance

SPEAKER_00 29:52

well, building that business, Sonia. I tell you, this has been one of the deepest shadow work explorations of my whole life ever. Because did I hit procrastination walls there? You know, those parts inside of me who were like, no way we're growing that much, absolutely not. You're the first person in your whole lineage ever to be a business person. Stay with those workshops that you're giving, that's enough. You becoming like uh an international plot like coach, absolutely not. So I had to like coach myself through a lot of things, it was a process, it still is.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Like I can't do this, I can't do that, and then a lot of this is also pushing past those self-uh sabotaging thoughts and limitations that were holding you back to propel yourself forward to where you are today.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah, I'm not a tech person. It was it's the learning curve is is uh it's huge, yeah. And it's beautiful, it's very beautiful. I mean, like who knew? Like when I go back in time and I I I do this very often. I go to my younger self and like I send her love and like keep going, Tina, keep going. It's gonna get better, it's gonna get better. Trust me, I love you. You're beautiful, keep going, because I know my future self is doing the same for me, and that's one of the practices that really allows me to like, okay, here we go, yet another like expansion curve and something new to integrate, and especially someone with neurodiversity, you know, like I cannot participate in the regular hustle hustle, build, build, build like a machine. It just does not work. So, finding then also those avenues of like how can this be in a in a way that is like going with my infrastructure and um still be fun, you know, still be fun. Yes, sometimes you sit with the discomfort, but where's the fun in that? Where where's the play and the juice in sitting with that discomfort, you know?

SPEAKER_01 32:31

I feel like when we sit with the discomfort, that's where we grow the most. You know, I feel like that's one thing that's like a I think that's kind of like a requirement. Because I know a lot of people out there, there are a lot of people who don't like to do that. They just think, okay, well, if you just forget, don't pretend you're depressed, just don't, you know, or why don't you just uh you know don't think about it. Don't, you know, don't focus on the problem. It goes away if you just don't think about it. But truth is, in order to grow through something, you actually have to allow yourself to be uncomfortable. You have to be, you have to allow yourself to be ripped bare.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really learning to find the the pleasure. That's why BDSM made so much sense to me. Then it's coming back to this like finding the pleasure in stuff that the ego, the logical mind, parts of us are like, eh, don't want to do that. It's like if you haven't gone to the gym or to some sort of like physical practice for a very long time, and then you start doing it because you know it's gonna serve your body, it's gonna make you feel better, you know the results you will get out of it, or you probably will get out of it. Still at the beginning, going to the gym is like, oh my god, every time is hard. It's hard to grow. Growth is not meant to be easy, I think. Growth comes with okay, let me go for a little longer and then see, does it serve you? I mean, obviously, sticking forever with something that's just continuously making you feel miserably over months. Well, maybe that is not your practice then, also, you know, this balance of okay, let me try something new. Oh, it's gonna be hard. Oh, yeah, there's a discomfort, oh, there's the patterns, there's the parts who are like protesting. That's why I'm saying internal family system is so so so helpful. Because once you bring those parts in who are protesting, it becomes a lot easier to change. Change becomes really easier.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Absolutely, absolutely. And yes, you know, change is a lot easier when you allow yourself to grow through that, right? Going to your point that you know that if you can really dig dig deep and really find out what is it, you know, is there maybe some negative belief you've had about yourself that you learn from somewhere, or you know, what is causing you to want to hurt yourself, you know, yeah, you know, and going and tackling that specifically.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Yeah, yeah, right. That's yeah, when the shaming and blaming stops, it's just at some point for me, I realized like, oh, I got to a point where I'm like, oh, this really mean, mean inner voice, when she comes up, it's very briefly, and instantly I instead of shaming her and being like, shut up, because that's what we usually do, is like when we're not have been like introduced to these to these practices, like the inner critic shows up, and then we even shame the inner critic for being there. Why are you here again? You're so mean, shut the fuck up, you know. So it's like self-critique on top on self-critique. And once those like like um chains of inner conversations are like untangled and unpacked, and you start to like find that self-love and and be like, Oh, I hear you, the inner critic is getting loud right now. Maybe I need to slow down, maybe I need a bit of grounding, maybe it's just some breathing, you know. When you have your toolkit together, that really helps you to um integrate those parts because integration does not mean that they go away, it just means that you, your integrated self-like that eye of the storm part of you, your inner core self, you you know how to like be kind with yourself with those parts when they come up. And so it it's just growth is still uncomfortable, there's still resistance, resistance will never go away. I've learned that resistance is actually where is this like oh resistance? Welcome, there's something here for me. Let me be curious, who's resisting?

SPEAKER_01 37:11

You know, I read somewhere, and it's so true, it says growth never happens in places of comfort, right? It's when you're only out of your comfort zone, that's when growth starts to grow to happen because you are then in a way, you're forced to look at things differently, you're forced to adapt, you're forced to do things that you normally would not do, right? So this is kind of where all that change happens, and change is very beautiful as well, right? And I love how you said welcome resistance, because when you start to look at difficult things as these things are here to help you and be your friends, then it doesn't look that it then it's not as daunting anymore.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Absolutely, absolutely. I always like this image of the lobster growing, you know, the lobster getting like it's growing and then like and it starts to get too tight in the shell, and and at some point it has to like do the work of break free of that shell, and then it's very vulnerable being out there in the new version. It is it is oof, you know. It's okay to look for a rock to hide underneath for a while to like grow that new shell, like, and then it's a money, okay. This is my new shell. Here we go out, and then next year, you know, or whenever what cycle is completed, all over again. All over again.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yes, absolutely.

A Client Breakthrough Through Full Approval

SPEAKER_01 38:49

What was an inspiring story you've seen with clients you've worked with? You know, any of any kind of stories stand out to you where you watched transformation and it really tugged at your heartstring.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, yeah. So there was this one client, I'm just like always like blown how much just full approval can really change. So she was like struggling also on the autism spectrum, and she was struggling intensely with going out into the world. She was very much in this hiding inside and not like connecting and being comfortable with online uh communities, but out in the real world, she was I don't know, I don't know what to do with people. And so I helped her to connect with this part who's like, absolutely not, we're not going anywhere. And when we explored together what was the worst thing or the worst outcome that that part was afraid would happen, is it was it believed she would die. And when we face, when we looked at that together, and we had her have that experience very often, it's like allowing those parts have that experience in a meditative state and see that you do not die, you know. It's like having, oh, I'm still here. We did that thing internally, we didn't die. Well, maybe outside in the other in the outside world, we don't die either, you know. And then she just she just erupted in a massive laughter. I have never someone seen laugh so there was so much I you could see it in her whole uh physognomy, how how so much of that holding on to just fell away, and um yeah, she then shared with me like Tina, I cannot believe it. I have been to this event, to this thing, I'm having peak conversations with people in the supermarket or whatever. Like that, it's a fucking miracle. And I was like, Yeah, I could see that in that moment. It it sometimes when part when when you are so identified with a certain part of yourself, like this whole um split personality and and physiological like the faces changing, it's it's actually real, like like you change so much in your facial expression, you look like a different person. Okay, so that was that was one of the moments where I'm like, oh my god, I love this work. More people, I wish more people knew what this work can do for them.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

Absolutely. No, your work sounds like it's a very uh interesting and informative, and can be definitely uh used by anybody who's in the helping profession, right? Whether you're a therapist, psychologist, yeah, mental health.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

I mean, it's like it's it's it's it's a path. I always say, like, it's it's what I say also on a webpage. It's not for the faint of heart. Uh if you don't want to change profoundly, don't do it. But for people who are really looking to change to to bring about profound change within themselves and with others, um, I personally know nothing uh more powerful, and I've tried like, oh my god, I've been always a seeker. I've done so many things, so this is where I landed, and I've it finally felt like okay, this is my thing to share. This is what I have to give to the world. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

And you know, I feel like you know, you're doing such a great job with all you're doing and putting yourself out there in a way that's giving back, you know, and this is what makes it so special. Because, you know, when people go into a field because they want to give back because of an adversity they had to overcome, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

It this is just what makes it so special, what makes a person glow, why it becomes so effective, because you're not just in there because it was just something to do, or it was because it landed on your lap, right? Yeah, it was you know, you you were intentional about wanting to give back.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Yeah, it's it's not another nine to five that gives you the paycheck that like you know, it's not, it's definitely not like building a coaching business is intense, it's a lot of putting work in before you get anything out, but like the sense of purpose is just so it keeps me going, even on days where I'm like, oh god, yeah, you know, yeah,

Where To Find Tina And Closing

SPEAKER_00 43:33

yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

So Tina, where can people find you if they want to connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Yeah, so I do have my link tree. I guess uh it's gonna be probably in the show notes because there's everything really, really uh on one place. So in there is my webpage, it's tinaestrella.com, and I'm on the usual socials. It's either Flow State Manager Tina on TikTok and on Instagram and on YouTube. It's also Tina Estrella. And yeah, I do have free resources for people to try out. I have like um small uh price entry points where people can connect with me and like get a feeling of how it is to actually work with me in person before they go on the big adventure of doing a three-month with me because I know it is there's a lot of trust needed and a lot of um connection. And so starting slowly, dipping your toe in the water and then seeing if you're ready for the big swim.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Well, Tina, thank you so much for sharing with us about you and what you do and sharing your passions with us. Um for all who are listening, her information will be on the show notes. And I encourage everybody to check out Tina's website. And uh, for all who enjoyed what you heard today, remember rate, review, subscribe to my podcast, and share it with your family and friends. And I will be back next time for more episodes. Thank you all for tuning in and take care.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Thank you so much.