Dec. 15, 2025
Jon Morris: A Strategic Framework for Sustainable Business Growth
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In this episode of Adrienne Barker Speaks No Prep Needed, Adrienne sits down with Jon Morris, founder of Fiscal Advocate and the entrepreneur who grew Rise Interactive from a $10K business plan competition win into a nearly $40 million digital agency before selling it. Jon breaks down financial strategy in plain English, explaining how service-based businesses can use their numbers to grow faster, become more profitable, and stop making emotional decisions that quietly sabotage long-term success. From understanding why most companies get stuck at the same revenue level to knowing when growth requires spending less profit, not more hustle, this conversation is a masterclass in clarity, leadership, and financial truth-telling.
Six Key Takeaways
→ There are only three KPIs that truly matter: cash on hand, profit margin and revenue growth → Most service based businesses stall because gross margins are too low not because sales are too weak
→ Spending more money does not guarantee growth but reducing the right expenses always improves stability
→ People costs make up roughly 80 percent of service businesses so financial fixes require emotional leadership
→ Profitable companies often fail to grow because they under invest in sales marketing and innovation
→ A strong finance strategy removes emotion from decision-making and gives CEOs the confidence to act
Who This Episode Is For → Founders and CEOs of service based businesses earning between $5M and $50M → Business owners who feel stuck at the same revenue level year after year → Leaders who want clarity instead of guessing month to month → Entrepreneurs who want their financial data actually to guide growth decisions
How to Connect With Jon Morris Website →http://www.fiscaladvocate.com
WEBVTT
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We are live with John Morris, my newest victim.
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Oh wait, I'm not doing true crime. Sorry. Sorry.
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I'm the co -host of a very popular true crime
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podcast. No, no, he's not a victim. He's brave.
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He's bold. I'm pretty sure he's brilliant by
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reading his bio. I literally have no clue who
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John is. So John, you have to share. John, from
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what I read here, Could you please, when you
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go to explain it and we have a conversation,
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make believe I'm 12. So you have to kind of explain
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it in very layman teenager terms. Okay, so everyone,
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meet John Morris. John, introduce yourself. Nice
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to meet everyone. So yeah, a little bit of background
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on me. From 1996, which shows how old I am, to
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2020, I was in the digital marketing space. In
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my last business, I went to University of Chicago
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for business school. I entered an annual business
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plan competition. I took second place 21 years
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later. I can tell you I'm very, very bitter.
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It should have been first. But I won $10 ,000
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as the prize money. And I used that to grow a
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digital agency called Rise Interactive from just
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me to a little bit under $40 million in revenue
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before exiting it five years ago. I stepped down
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on April 1st of 2020. I happen to love April
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Fool's Day and I feel like this was sort of a
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prank coming back to me, but it was right at
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the beginning of the pandemic. When you build
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a fairly decent sized company and you think about
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what your exit's gonna be, you envision somewhere
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going on a plane that's warm and doing fun things
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and the world will shut down. The airports were
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closed, the golf courses were closed. And so
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I created my current company, Fiscal Advocate.
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And it was really based on the success of Rise.
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So Rise, we took financial data and we used that
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data to make better decisions on how to scale
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and grow our business and I think our competition.
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And so now what I do is I help mainly anyone
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in the service -based space, but primarily tech
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service and marketing service companies make
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better decision -makings to grow faster, increase
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profits and grow cash. by utilizing their financial
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data. Interesting. Okay. So thank you. So that's
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Rise Interactive. So what's the interactive part?
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It was an interactive agency. So Rise, you know,
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back from 2004 to 2020, some people call it digital
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agency, some people call it an interactive agency.
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And so that's what the interactive was. Okay.
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So now you're with Fiscal Advocate and So I get
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who you serve. I'm not sure how you serve them.
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So you have to really remember I'm 12. I'll go
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with the 12 year old version. So perfect. So
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give me give me an example. Did you have like
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a case study or an example? Because I'll do I
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do great with them. So I generally help two different
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types of businesses. First type of business I
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help is just cash constrained or financially
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in trouble organization and I get them back to
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a place that's healthy. And when I say financial
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data, in the service -based sector, there are
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very clear benchmarks of how much money you should
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spend in every single area of your business.
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So if you are overspending on delivering for
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your customers, we help you right size that.
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If you're overspending on sales and marketing,
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we help you right size that. So we help you understand
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how much you need to spend in each specific area.
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The second, okay, so you have the technology.
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This is all technology based. So you're inputting
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their information. Yep, so we build our own budgeting
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and forecasting and benchmarking software, but
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it's also service. So if you want. Basically
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think of us. We will take over your finance department.
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We will be an extension of your finance department
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or we will just give you the technology that
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your finance department can use. So we, you know,
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are really. you know, a fractional CFO is a good
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way of putting it. Do you do offer done for you
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or do it yourself? Yep. Is that both scenarios?
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Now, the second type of business we help are
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companies that have just hit a plateau. They
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grew to 20 million. They got stuck and they don't
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know how to get bigger. And so we help guide
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them on It's really interesting. Once you organize
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someone's financial data and you put everything
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into the buckets that I want to see your spending,
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it tells an immediate story. I can tell you exactly
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why you're not growing. The biggest thing when
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I tell people is your gross margin, which is
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how much money you have left over after you service
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your customers, 90 % of the time is too low.
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before they come to us. So you should be spending
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if you're in the service based sector, 50 % of
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your revenue, or less to deliver for your customers.
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And if you're spending more than that, you're
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just not delivering profitably enough. And so
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that's one area that we fix. Oftentimes, we find
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that the back office, so your HR, your legal,
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your corporate IT, your finance department, you
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know, you got some massive office that you shouldn't
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have got it, you know, like So we could figure
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out really quickly what's happening, why you're
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not growing and what we need to do to put you
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on a path to growth. OK, so this is really interesting.
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So give me your like what what size business
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do you do you find that that there, you know,
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the issues start growing? Is it the single solopreneur
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or five employees, ten employees? So I would
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say the issues start with every different size
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business. We tend to serve. $5 million to $50
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million businesses. And I would say the vast
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majority are between $10 million and $20 million.
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OK, so when you come into the business, you go
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in, they hire you, or they bring you in. Is there
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some fear going on with the employees that maybe
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weren't keeping records correctly, spending too
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much money? Has that ever become an issue? So
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I'm not talking to the core group that often.
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Mainly, I'm talking to the CEO. If they have
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a finance department, I'll be talking to the
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finance department. I might be talking to a few
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leaders. I am generally very honest. When you
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are in the service -based industry, 80 % of your
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costs are people. And if you're losing money,
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I can tell you my playbook. You're gonna have
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to reduce your expenses. Everyone would love
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to grow based on, you know, get to profitability
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by just increasing revenue. But that's not a
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guarantee. Reducing your expenses is a guarantee.
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When I say reducing expenses, it generally means
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getting rid of people that have been with you
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that you love, that you've been in the trenches
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with that you deeply care about. And so I start
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off by just saying to them that I want to make
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sure that you have the emotional strength to
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do what I'm going to suggest. Because I I'm here
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to help you know It's kind of like when you go
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to the doctor and the doctor tells you you got
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to change your lifestyle And you got to do all
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these things the doctor can't make you do those
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things like you have to be willing to do them
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yourself When I come in and I try to get you
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to a financially healthy spot um You know you're
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most likely gonna have to let some people go
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and have a tough conversation and so If you can't
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do that, I would say two things I don't think
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you should be running the company if you can't
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do it and then the second thing is you shouldn't
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hire me because You're gonna waste your money
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because I'm gonna tell you what to do And then
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you're not gonna want to do it because you don't
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like the news So I would think that family business,
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it would be tougher on a family business to let
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someone go because I was just thinking today
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that a lot of times employees kind of hijack
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the company, right? They, they in smaller, am
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I wrong? Like they, they tend to, you know, tell
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the owner what to do instead of the owner saying
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it. And often the owner doesn't, you know, Like
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has to listen because they don't want to lose
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that employee and it's that circle A cycle of
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the employee is good, but they're not the best
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or could there be someone better? But in a family
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business is I think that it's even harder to
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let someone go, but that's just me Is that what
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you're finding? Well, so absolutely, but let's
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just put it this way In every job no matter what
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job you take There is something that is the worst
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part of the job that you're just like, I absolutely
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dread and I hate this component. If you're going
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to be a CEO or you're going to be a manager,
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you have to make really tough decisions in a
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non -emotional manner. And the closer you are
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to those individuals, like you have Thanksgiving
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around the corner and if you have to fire Uncle
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Joe, that's gonna make it a very uncomfortable
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Thanksgiving dinner. But what I would tell you
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is, don't put yourself in that situation. I've
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let go of a lot of people who I deeply care about
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and I have great relationships with still. But
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when I hired them, I had an honest conversation
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of like, I got to run this in a non -emotional
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manner. Like if you're not meeting my needs or
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the company's needs. I'll have a conversation
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with you. I do it with heart, I do it with caring,
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but I gotta take care of the 90 % still within
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the organization as opposed to the 10 % that
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aren't performing to what we would want them
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to perform. But is that just about the people
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or is it? Is there other areas that you're looking
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at where you could save money and is that? even
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how companies invoice you, that maybe they're
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doing lawn work, painting, all of that in one
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bucket. And so when you're looking at it, you're
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unable to really break it down. Are those kind
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of problems taking place? I think in different
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industries, there might be more of a percent
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of your revenue that are non -people expenses.
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In the world of service companies, where what
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you sell is time, 80 % of your costs are people.
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So yes, you could look at the 20 % and see if
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there's something to do there, but I'll just
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give an example. Imagine you run a web development
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company and your revenue is $10 million. You
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have a budget of $5 million in order to service
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those customers. That's what you have to figure
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out how to do. Now imagine your cost is $8 million.
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So you're spending $3 million more than you supposed
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to be in that area. So you only have a 20 % gross
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margin, the 10 million minus eight. So when I
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talk about getting rid of expenses, sure, if
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you have some piece of technology that happened
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to be two of that $3 million that you don't need,
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that you need to cut, then that's a no brainer.
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I just have enough experience to know that I'm
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not looking at the cuts holistically across the
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entire company. I'm looking at by individual
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department based on benchmarks of how much you're
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supposed to spend. And so, you know, like let's
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just say you had a house and you know, you're
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like, you have a budget for the house and you're
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like 10 times over your budget on your landscaping
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and you're half a percent over your budget on
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I don't know your groceries or something like
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that. You know, we're going to go attack landscaping.
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We're not going to attack the groceries and it's
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same thing with running the business. OK, so
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then what if what if you go into a business and
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you find the salaries are really high? They're
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exorbitant there and that family members are
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under the salary. Have you ever had that issue
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where you have the owners are taking a very large
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salary? Their children are taking a large salary
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and and how would you even fix something like
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that? So once again, my job is to give information
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and to try to create a sense of urgency for them
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to make the right decision. So let's just look
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at it this way. The first thing is I get very
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involved in your org structure. Typically you
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should have four direct reports at a minimum
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per manager. So using my... Eight million is
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what you're spending, but you should only be
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spending five million a dollar example. I'm going
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to be looking at your org structure. And if I
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see that you got 10 managers and each of them
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only have two direct reports, I'm going to explain
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that you need to have only, you know, uh, 10
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direct reports. You only need three managers,
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you know, or four managers. I had to do the math
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in my head, but you know, the idea is that you
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have too many managers. So you're going to have
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to, you might have a conversation with somebody
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and they might say, you know, we're going to
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have to lower your salary and make you, you know,
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a direct report as opposed to a manager or we're
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going to have to go replace you with somebody
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else. Most likely you're going to replace them,
00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:03.710
but you're going to have to cut your managers
00:14:03.710 --> 00:14:08.529
by five or six to seven people. And if you're
00:14:08.529 --> 00:14:10.710
not willing to do it, you're not going to fix
00:14:10.710 --> 00:14:12.830
the problem. You know, you're going to continue
00:14:12.830 --> 00:14:15.919
to lose money. So and I'm giving you like the
00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.940
hard scenario there are times where it's fun
00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:22.639
You know, I have a client right now that is incredibly
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.659
profitable, but they're not growing and In this
00:14:28.659 --> 00:14:33.440
scenario they're way under investing in their
00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.899
sales and marketing and their R &D and So, you
00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:41.220
know company I was just talking to last week
00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:45.559
five million revenue 40 % in profit so they're
00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.720
making two million dollars in profit off of that
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.259
five million dollars The first thing I explained
00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:54.019
is you don't need to do anything Like you're
00:14:54.019 --> 00:14:56.080
making more than enough money like it, you know,
00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.299
like you can live like that You can live like
00:14:58.299 --> 00:14:59.940
a king like, you know, we don't need to change
00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:04.220
anything But if you want to grow and you want
00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:06.200
to go from five million to ten million, which
00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.759
is why they called me Then we have to reduce
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:13.889
your profits and invest in sales and marketing
00:15:13.889 --> 00:15:16.409
and invest in innovation so that you can scale
00:15:16.409 --> 00:15:20.830
and grow. That makes sense. That makes sense.
00:15:21.309 --> 00:15:25.730
So I kind of figure out where you fall as a company
00:15:25.730 --> 00:15:28.590
is looking at their P &L and they're saying,
00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:31.929
uh -oh, we're not, we're like all the different
00:15:31.929 --> 00:15:35.710
scenarios that are out there, but are they contacting
00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:40.120
you in the beginning to go through? or is it
00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.879
more towards the end when they realize that it's
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.879
a people problem? I hope that they're contacting
00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.440
me in the beginning, but I'll give an example.
00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:51.100
I happen to know the exact dates. October 11th
00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:56.080
of last year, I had a potential client that decided
00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:01.120
not to work with me. And they called me up a
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:05.220
few weeks ago and they did not have a good year.
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:08.750
They ran into debt. They lost money. And now
00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:11.690
we're in a major turnaround situation where I
00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:13.450
have to help them with their cash flow and make
00:16:13.450 --> 00:16:15.690
sure that they have enough cash while we turn
00:16:15.690 --> 00:16:18.610
their business around. Had they hired me a year
00:16:18.610 --> 00:16:20.549
ago, I would have saved them a lot of pain. I
00:16:20.549 --> 00:16:22.629
would have helped them sleep at night. And we
00:16:22.629 --> 00:16:24.350
probably talk about investing and putting out
00:16:24.350 --> 00:16:28.470
a path to growth as opposed to a financial turnaround.
00:16:29.190 --> 00:16:32.250
So I get people call me at all different stages.
00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:36.549
What was their objection last year? They had
00:16:36.549 --> 00:16:39.470
an internal employee that was running the finances
00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:43.009
and I don't think that they were ready to let
00:16:43.009 --> 00:16:45.730
go of that employee or and that employee was
00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:50.529
not ready to embrace us and so So they stuck
00:16:50.529 --> 00:16:53.049
with what they were currently doing and waited
00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:55.730
and I see that very you know it once again it's
00:16:55.730 --> 00:17:00.450
hard to let people go and I see that as a common
00:17:00.450 --> 00:17:04.869
thread where You have an internal finance team
00:17:04.970 --> 00:17:07.769
You're very nervous about making a change to
00:17:07.769 --> 00:17:10.230
that team, but that team's not giving you what
00:17:10.230 --> 00:17:14.589
you need. But OK, so this kind of circles around,
00:17:14.730 --> 00:17:16.369
though, to my like my first question, because
00:17:16.369 --> 00:17:19.769
that was kind of my first thought is that there's
00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:22.710
many people in positions that probably aren't
00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:26.109
so wonderful, but. there may be a relationship,
00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:30.490
not like a relationship, but maybe that there's
00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:32.789
a couple of things that they do that the CEO
00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:35.309
loves, right? But there's some things that are
00:17:35.309 --> 00:17:38.490
not offering what that company needs. So they
00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:40.789
get in that position, that pickle of not wanting
00:17:40.789 --> 00:17:43.609
to let someone go. So it's nice to be able to
00:17:43.609 --> 00:17:46.950
turn it over to you, right? So that it kind of
00:17:46.950 --> 00:17:50.109
takes the emotion out of it and takes that you're
00:17:50.109 --> 00:17:53.029
doing it. So I think that really makes sense.
00:17:53.309 --> 00:17:56.269
Weirdo people, when they get to this situation,
00:17:56.410 --> 00:17:59.390
how do they even look you up? Like, what does
00:17:59.390 --> 00:18:03.049
that look like as far as like, if I, oh, I'm
00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:05.869
going to use this word. Don't laugh, John. Okay.
00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:08.769
Maybe you're too young. Back in the day, when
00:18:08.769 --> 00:18:12.269
you use the yellow pages, what would I look you
00:18:12.269 --> 00:18:14.089
up? If I was going to go to the yellow pages
00:18:14.089 --> 00:18:17.920
or Google, how do I Google what you do? probably
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.779
fractional CFO would be like the typical term
00:18:20.779 --> 00:18:23.279
people would look for. By the way, I worked for
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.539
a very brief moment for the third largest yellow
00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:27.940
page advertising agency. So I am old enough to
00:18:27.940 --> 00:18:34.460
know what the yellow pages are. But but going
00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:36.480
back to your comment before about the emotional
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.720
aspects, this goes back to my comment. The worst
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:43.140
part of being a manager or CEO is that you have
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:47.799
to fire people. And If you can't do the job,
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:50.079
then I would really challenge if you're the right
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.380
person for that job. And so if you're in a family
00:18:54.380 --> 00:18:56.920
run business, you've hired your best friend,
00:18:57.019 --> 00:19:00.619
you've hired your cousin, you know, like, you
00:19:00.619 --> 00:19:04.220
can't sacrifice the quality of your company,
00:19:04.460 --> 00:19:06.599
because you're scared of those decisions, you
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.220
need to make sure that you put yourself in a
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:10.200
place that you can make those decisions. And
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:16.400
this is my the example I like to use is The president
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.700
of the United States sends bombs into other countries
00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:24.539
and kills people. And I personally couldn't do
00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:28.119
that job. I could not sleep at night personally
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:33.680
that I made a mistake and impacted someone in
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.119
such a drastic way or a country in such a drastic
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:40.700
way. I can do this job. I can run a company and
00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:43.619
make the tough decisions. because I generally
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:46.079
believe that although I may be causing pain,
00:19:46.700 --> 00:19:50.000
I can help them find their next job, that it's
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.039
generally, you know, a temporary pain point,
00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:55.140
not a permanent pain point, you know, but it's
00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.559
a horrible part of the job. And so that's where
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.019
I agree with you, it's harder in a family run
00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:03.480
business, but I still think that you need to
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:08.029
have the ability to make those decisions. So
00:20:08.029 --> 00:20:09.809
interesting. John, hold on for one second. I
00:20:09.809 --> 00:20:12.049
just want to say hello to Latonya and Bruce.
00:20:12.490 --> 00:20:14.990
They are here live on Chatter Social. I don't
00:20:14.990 --> 00:20:19.589
know if you can see that. So, Latonya or Bruce,
00:20:19.829 --> 00:20:21.430
thank you for being here, both of you. And if
00:20:21.430 --> 00:20:24.490
you have any questions, please let us know. And
00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:26.630
actually, what I want John to do, if you don't
00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:29.910
mind repeating this, I meet you in the elevator
00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:33.400
and we're going up to my pet house suite. that
00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.059
I have all five Patton House suites in the building.
00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:39.380
But seriously, give me your elevator pitch so
00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:41.259
that Bruce and Latonya and anyone else listening
00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:43.980
or coming in halfway understand what you do.
00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:48.779
So my company, Fiscal Advocate, specializes in
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:53.039
helping five million to $50 million service -based
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.160
companies manage their finances more effectively,
00:20:56.619 --> 00:20:59.119
provide strategic planning and executive coaching
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.309
to help you focus three numbers. how much cash
00:21:02.309 --> 00:21:05.670
you have relative to your monthly overhead. Microsoft
00:21:05.670 --> 00:21:09.029
bought LinkedIn for $26 .2 billion in an all
00:21:09.029 --> 00:21:11.490
cash deal. If you have lots of cash, you have
00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:15.049
lots of optionality. Improve your profit margin
00:21:15.049 --> 00:21:17.569
and have you grow faster on a year over year
00:21:17.569 --> 00:21:22.390
basis. Interesting. So how I look at it, John,
00:21:22.509 --> 00:21:24.390
is that you could be in business and you could
00:21:24.390 --> 00:21:26.369
put like, you know, a paper bag over your head
00:21:26.369 --> 00:21:29.670
and not really see what's taking place and kind
00:21:29.670 --> 00:21:32.230
of just hope every month that the numbers match
00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:34.690
up. And you may be thinking to yourself, well,
00:21:34.690 --> 00:21:37.670
I don't have the money to even go this route,
00:21:37.950 --> 00:21:42.230
but like share that you spend to save is kind
00:21:42.230 --> 00:21:44.950
of how I look at this. It's a great way of looking
00:21:44.950 --> 00:21:47.460
at it, you know. I happen to know the service
00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:49.900
based space, but every industry has benchmarks.
00:21:50.539 --> 00:21:53.740
But the goal in a service based company is 20
00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:57.700
% of your revenue is profit. And if you have
00:21:57.700 --> 00:22:02.079
been year after year after year below 20%, you
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:04.920
are overspending somewhere and not getting the
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.380
impact or the return off of that investment.
00:22:07.819 --> 00:22:11.859
And so by hiring us, we're going to get you to
00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:13.880
that 20 % profit, we're going to get you more
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:16.440
money than what you pay us. So it It's a really
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:20.359
good trade. And the other part is, ideally, we're
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:21.839
going to put you on a path to growth, that we're
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:23.599
going to get you to spend your time and your
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:26.279
money more intelligently and more effectively
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:31.660
to grow appropriately. So is this a proprietary
00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:35.599
software, too, that you have? Yeah, so we have
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.920
one piece of software called Engine BI that does
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.960
budgeting, forecasting, benchmarking, specifically
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:44.569
designed for the service -based industry. It's
00:22:44.569 --> 00:22:47.809
basically taking what I did at Rise Interactive,
00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:51.529
which I had Google Sheets and I productized it.
00:22:51.809 --> 00:22:54.450
And then next quarter, we're launching an AI
00:22:54.450 --> 00:22:57.609
CFO co -pilot. So think of it as eventually it
00:22:57.609 --> 00:22:59.670
will connect to your bank account, your accounting
00:22:59.670 --> 00:23:02.450
software, your credit cards, your time tracking,
00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:06.509
your CRM, and any question you have that relates
00:23:06.509 --> 00:23:16.119
to your... financial needs, it will be an answer.
00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:21.660
Wait, you can use the word copilot. Yeah, I don't
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:24.460
think that Microsoft owns the word copilot. I
00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:27.000
call it a CFO copilot, so it's not the product
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.759
name. It's just what it is. It's a it's a copilot
00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.660
to the CFO to help them. I love it. I love it.
00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.160
I love it. And Bruce and Tanya, if you have any
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.940
questions, please let us know. This is a little
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:42.099
bit over my head between just between us. Hopefully
00:23:42.099 --> 00:23:47.140
nobody else hears. So what questions should I
00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:52.200
be asking you since I really do no prep? You
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:57.880
know, assuming your audience is. interested in
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.160
either two things, stabilizing their business
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.880
or growing faster. The first thing I explained
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.539
is there are only three KPIs that matter. The
00:24:05.539 --> 00:24:08.119
ones I just mentioned, your cash, your profit
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.619
margin and your revenue growth. And if you narrow
00:24:11.619 --> 00:24:13.880
all of your decisions to just improving those
00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:16.579
three numbers, that to me is a really good starting
00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:22.539
point. The second thing is, you know, what you
00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:27.190
want to do is there's a department in the finance
00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:29.730
group called FP &A. It stands for financial planning
00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:32.289
and analysis. And I think it is one of the most
00:24:32.289 --> 00:24:34.029
important elements to growing your business.
00:24:34.089 --> 00:24:36.990
So it will do your budgeting, your forecasting,
00:24:37.289 --> 00:24:40.630
your cashflow analysis. It's really giving you
00:24:40.630 --> 00:24:42.569
your forward -looking insights and you should
00:24:42.569 --> 00:24:45.410
be investing and having those forward -looking
00:24:45.410 --> 00:24:48.730
insights. The third thing, and this was the trick
00:24:48.730 --> 00:24:52.140
to how I grew RISE. was I focused on servicing
00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:54.839
our customers as profitably as we possibly could.
00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:57.680
And then I used that money to invest more in
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.720
sales and marketing and more into R &D. The big
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.380
number that you want to look at is what percent
00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:06.740
of your revenue do you spend on sales and marketing?
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:10.400
And you want it to be as high a percent as possible.
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.779
So if you're spending more on sales and marketing
00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:15.279
relative to your competition is the exact same
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:20.759
size, you should have an edge over time. Interesting.
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.779
Sorry, Mike. I have to just clear out some windows
00:25:23.779 --> 00:25:29.980
because it's causing an issue. Oh, Bruce, Bruce,
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.119
say hello. Hi, Bruce. Nice to see you too. Good
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:38.180
afternoon. Now it is afternoon in Vegas. Does
00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:43.500
this pertain more to corporate type businesses?
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:45.880
You know, brick and mortar type businesses, because
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.509
I'm an entrepreneur and I'm. building a business
00:25:49.509 --> 00:25:53.549
through another company. I'm an independent business
00:25:53.549 --> 00:26:03.410
owner. So when I go out and I am growing my team
00:26:03.410 --> 00:26:08.569
and when I'm out there getting customers, I do
00:26:08.569 --> 00:26:11.849
it more of a one -on -one basis. I can do it
00:26:11.849 --> 00:26:15.049
online and do that kind of way, but I'm more
00:26:16.100 --> 00:26:18.299
successful when I go out and just have conversations
00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:22.259
and I go out and I give samples and do things
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:25.779
like that. So is this more geared towards the
00:26:25.779 --> 00:26:29.119
corporate type of a structure? It's really geared
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:30.740
for any business, but let me ask you, Bruce,
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:35.700
what does your business do? I have, I sell products,
00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:39.140
everything from cleaning supplies all the way
00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:43.819
to health and wellness. So I got the whole gamut,
00:26:43.819 --> 00:26:48.059
personal care. You know, I do all that. OK, and
00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:51.099
then tell me a little bit about what are your
00:26:51.099 --> 00:26:53.099
dreams like? Do you want to keep it small? Do
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:55.140
you want to grow it into something large? Like
00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:58.740
how big of a company do you want to create? I
00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:01.440
want it to be as big as I can make it. You know,
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:05.140
OK, I'm able to what the way of structured. You
00:27:05.140 --> 00:27:08.019
know, once I build my team and once I get my
00:27:08.019 --> 00:27:10.980
customers, I can build it as big as I want to
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:14.759
grow it and then I can also will it. over to
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.619
the next generation should some well when not
00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:21.920
should when something happens and i'm gone i
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.400
can uh pass it on to the next generation and
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.920
they can grow on top of what i've already grown
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:31.500
and how many employees do you have today uh i
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:36.299
don't need any employees at all zero okay so
00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:40.880
the first thing is if you want to grow uh i say
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.960
You can't have a goal unless you budget for it.
00:27:45.500 --> 00:27:49.119
So the first thing you have to think about is
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.740
what percent of your revenue are you going to
00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:55.480
dedicate to sales and marketing and to help you
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:57.240
win new customers? Now, it could be that you're
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.460
still the sales person, but you're going to spend
00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:03.599
more money on travel to go to more events. It
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.220
could be that you're going to hire somebody and
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.160
they're going to go to those events. It could
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:08.660
be that you're going to do a media campaign.
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.160
There's lots of different ways to spend it. but
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:12.740
if you don't spend money on sales and marketing,
00:28:12.859 --> 00:28:16.339
you're not going to grow. Second thing I would
00:28:16.339 --> 00:28:19.599
be thinking about is over time, if you can add
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.460
more and more poise, there are really, you know,
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:24.220
in every business is a different industry, but
00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:25.799
you know, you're going to have a head of growth.
00:28:26.420 --> 00:28:27.460
You're going to have a head of someone taking
00:28:27.460 --> 00:28:30.359
care of the customers. You're going to have a
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:32.180
head of your back office and you might have a
00:28:32.180 --> 00:28:34.740
head of innovation. And right now it might be
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:37.019
you doing all of those things, but like, you
00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:39.980
know, 2026 is around the corner. you want to
00:28:39.980 --> 00:28:41.839
start thinking about what investments are you
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:43.880
going to make so that your business is better
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:45.740
at the end of the year than it is at the beginning
00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:47.180
of the year. You want to think about what is
00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:48.720
your revenue number going to be? What is your
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.920
profit number going to be? And, and so, you know,
00:28:52.220 --> 00:28:55.859
right now, it doesn't matter that you're a, you
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:58.240
know, a one person shop, you should be really
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.779
investing in your budgeting and strategically
00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:02.380
thinking about how you spend your time and your
00:29:02.380 --> 00:29:04.759
money next year, so that you'll get the greatest
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:09.289
return. Okay. All right, that's some good information.
00:29:09.990 --> 00:29:12.450
That is, Bruce. Thank you. Great question. Thank
00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:17.009
you, Bruce. I really appreciate it. So I am not
00:29:17.009 --> 00:29:19.089
sure if I have any more questions. You answered
00:29:19.089 --> 00:29:21.849
everything. I have a much better idea of what
00:29:21.849 --> 00:29:26.690
you do now and can grasp it. And I've heard of
00:29:26.690 --> 00:29:30.589
other companies that go in and do this. They,
00:29:30.589 --> 00:29:32.970
you know, will go in and, but it's very, very
00:29:32.970 --> 00:29:35.170
software, like, you know, pretty much they're
00:29:35.170 --> 00:29:36.970
taking the numbers, putting in the software and
00:29:36.970 --> 00:29:40.049
spinning it back out. It sounds like you are
00:29:40.049 --> 00:29:42.349
more hands -on. You may be doing that, but you're
00:29:42.349 --> 00:29:45.990
doing more of the, you know, speaking with the
00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:50.289
CFO. And you are actually letting the people
00:29:50.289 --> 00:29:52.309
go. I mean, are you the one that's doing it?
00:29:53.089 --> 00:29:55.309
I'm just giving them the guidance of how much
00:29:55.309 --> 00:29:58.250
they need to spend. And I'll help them think
00:29:58.250 --> 00:30:01.910
about how much to spend in those areas. But yes,
00:30:01.930 --> 00:30:06.910
I come with a philosophy and approach. My software
00:30:06.910 --> 00:30:11.049
mirrors that approach. But I really, you know,
00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:13.930
what I found that's necessary when you hire a
00:30:13.930 --> 00:30:17.259
CFO. is that you need someone with a crazy sense
00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:19.980
of urgency to help you make those decisions.
00:30:21.740 --> 00:30:25.759
And that they, I hate to use the word pressure,
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.700
but they care enough that they don't just say
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:31.339
like, hey, go make a decision and then go to
00:30:31.339 --> 00:30:32.880
sleep at night, whether they make the decision
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.700
or not. That we need to make things happen and
00:30:36.700 --> 00:30:40.599
we need to make them happen very quickly. So
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:47.900
interesting. October 14 and 15, we had an event
00:30:47.900 --> 00:30:50.619
called Swat in Order. This is the book from the
00:30:50.619 --> 00:30:53.140
speakers. But you fall right into that because
00:30:53.140 --> 00:30:55.740
that's exactly where people need to look at their
00:30:55.740 --> 00:30:58.440
strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats.
00:30:59.619 --> 00:31:02.980
Absolutely. I love that. I will have to ask you
00:31:02.980 --> 00:31:04.920
to be a speaker at our next one when we do it
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.680
next year. It was a great event. We multi -streamed
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.220
it. We were live on chatter. So all the speakers
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:13.059
were kind of surprised to have a real voice.
00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:15.700
Bruce is a real person. And of course, they have
00:31:15.700 --> 00:31:18.799
their chapter in the book, which is great. I
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.000
don't have any other questions. So unless I totally
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.460
missed something, I want to thank you for being
00:31:24.460 --> 00:31:27.900
bold enough to come on live. It's never easy.
00:31:28.650 --> 00:31:31.109
And you answered a lot of questions. And I absolutely,
00:31:31.250 --> 00:31:34.569
how can we, what can we listen to? So if we're
00:31:34.569 --> 00:31:36.930
having a conversation or I like to go out to
00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:38.970
eat and listen to other people's conversations,
00:31:39.269 --> 00:31:41.009
like I'm sure Bruce, you like to listen to other
00:31:41.009 --> 00:31:43.190
people's conversations. I'm kidding you. I'm
00:31:43.190 --> 00:31:45.150
sure I'm the only one that does that. But if
00:31:45.150 --> 00:31:47.789
I heard someone saying, geez, our business is
00:31:47.789 --> 00:31:50.690
at 10 million, but we're having troubles, you
00:31:50.690 --> 00:31:54.309
know, meeting our salary or meeting our goals.
00:31:54.829 --> 00:31:57.329
I could say, wait, talk to a fiscal advocate.
00:31:58.099 --> 00:32:00.400
Yep. So a couple of things. I post every week
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.720
on LinkedIn three times a week at a minimum,
00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:06.079
never miss a week. So you can go find me at LinkedIn.
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.779
You can go to fiscal advocate .com. I have a
00:32:08.779 --> 00:32:11.019
fairly large resource section. I have an ebook
00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:14.519
with my whole philosophy. And then you can always
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.700
email me. I'd love to hear from anybody at jln
00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:20.160
at fiscal advocate .com. Oh, I love that. I'm
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.519
putting the, okay. I'm putting it right here.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.339
Amazing. Yeah, really. I found this fascinating.
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:31.839
A little over my head, but fascinating. I really
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:34.640
understand. Okay. So thank you so much for your
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.500
time, John. I appreciate it. Thank you, Bruce
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:39.420
and Latonya. Appreciate your being here. And
00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:41.000
thank you for anyone that's watching or will
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.740
be watching. This will be turned into a podcast.
00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:47.220
And so I will send you that information, John,
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:51.710
and love PodMatch. So, so glad that you... found
00:32:51.710 --> 00:32:54.950
me on pod match so glad to be here and i'm really
00:32:54.950 --> 00:32:58.630
happy as well thank you so much all right well
00:32:58.630 --> 00:33:01.410
have a great rest of the day and i appreciate
00:33:01.410 --> 00:33:03.769
your being here absolutely you too have a good
00:33:03.769 --> 00:33:06.609
one and thank you for uh for those who joined
00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:09.490
yes thank you so much you guys i'm gonna close
00:33:09.490 --> 00:33:11.589
the room because i'm gonna end the stream so
00:33:11.589 --> 00:33:14.089
thank you so so much for being here it always
00:33:14.089 --> 00:33:16.009
means a lot to me and uh
00:00:03.700 --> 00:00:07.719
We are live with John Morris, my newest victim.
00:00:08.419 --> 00:00:10.640
Oh wait, I'm not doing true crime. Sorry. Sorry.
00:00:10.699 --> 00:00:12.519
I'm the co -host of a very popular true crime
00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:15.160
podcast. No, no, he's not a victim. He's brave.
00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:18.440
He's bold. I'm pretty sure he's brilliant by
00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.820
reading his bio. I literally have no clue who
00:00:21.820 --> 00:00:24.719
John is. So John, you have to share. John, from
00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:27.800
what I read here, Could you please, when you
00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:29.920
go to explain it and we have a conversation,
00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:32.939
make believe I'm 12. So you have to kind of explain
00:00:32.939 --> 00:00:37.380
it in very layman teenager terms. Okay, so everyone,
00:00:37.500 --> 00:00:40.200
meet John Morris. John, introduce yourself. Nice
00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.460
to meet everyone. So yeah, a little bit of background
00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:46.859
on me. From 1996, which shows how old I am, to
00:00:46.859 --> 00:00:50.640
2020, I was in the digital marketing space. In
00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:53.359
my last business, I went to University of Chicago
00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:56.090
for business school. I entered an annual business
00:00:56.090 --> 00:00:59.770
plan competition. I took second place 21 years
00:00:59.770 --> 00:01:01.469
later. I can tell you I'm very, very bitter.
00:01:01.490 --> 00:01:05.010
It should have been first. But I won $10 ,000
00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:09.469
as the prize money. And I used that to grow a
00:01:09.469 --> 00:01:12.370
digital agency called Rise Interactive from just
00:01:12.370 --> 00:01:15.150
me to a little bit under $40 million in revenue
00:01:15.150 --> 00:01:19.879
before exiting it five years ago. I stepped down
00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:23.280
on April 1st of 2020. I happen to love April
00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:25.500
Fool's Day and I feel like this was sort of a
00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:27.719
prank coming back to me, but it was right at
00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.120
the beginning of the pandemic. When you build
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.420
a fairly decent sized company and you think about
00:01:32.420 --> 00:01:36.159
what your exit's gonna be, you envision somewhere
00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:39.200
going on a plane that's warm and doing fun things
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.500
and the world will shut down. The airports were
00:01:42.500 --> 00:01:44.879
closed, the golf courses were closed. And so
00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:46.840
I created my current company, Fiscal Advocate.
00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.140
And it was really based on the success of Rise.
00:01:50.659 --> 00:01:55.760
So Rise, we took financial data and we used that
00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:59.159
data to make better decisions on how to scale
00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:01.299
and grow our business and I think our competition.
00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:06.879
And so now what I do is I help mainly anyone
00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:09.099
in the service -based space, but primarily tech
00:02:09.099 --> 00:02:12.680
service and marketing service companies make
00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:15.139
better decision -makings to grow faster, increase
00:02:15.139 --> 00:02:18.599
profits and grow cash. by utilizing their financial
00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:24.240
data. Interesting. Okay. So thank you. So that's
00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:27.500
Rise Interactive. So what's the interactive part?
00:02:28.379 --> 00:02:31.280
It was an interactive agency. So Rise, you know,
00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:35.419
back from 2004 to 2020, some people call it digital
00:02:35.419 --> 00:02:37.539
agency, some people call it an interactive agency.
00:02:37.620 --> 00:02:40.379
And so that's what the interactive was. Okay.
00:02:40.699 --> 00:02:45.849
So now you're with Fiscal Advocate and So I get
00:02:45.849 --> 00:02:48.509
who you serve. I'm not sure how you serve them.
00:02:48.509 --> 00:02:51.550
So you have to really remember I'm 12. I'll go
00:02:51.550 --> 00:02:53.569
with the 12 year old version. So perfect. So
00:02:53.569 --> 00:02:55.650
give me give me an example. Did you have like
00:02:55.650 --> 00:02:57.810
a case study or an example? Because I'll do I
00:02:57.810 --> 00:03:01.789
do great with them. So I generally help two different
00:03:01.789 --> 00:03:04.229
types of businesses. First type of business I
00:03:04.229 --> 00:03:08.770
help is just cash constrained or financially
00:03:08.770 --> 00:03:12.530
in trouble organization and I get them back to
00:03:12.530 --> 00:03:16.789
a place that's healthy. And when I say financial
00:03:16.789 --> 00:03:20.569
data, in the service -based sector, there are
00:03:20.569 --> 00:03:22.849
very clear benchmarks of how much money you should
00:03:22.849 --> 00:03:25.009
spend in every single area of your business.
00:03:25.729 --> 00:03:28.409
So if you are overspending on delivering for
00:03:28.409 --> 00:03:31.050
your customers, we help you right size that.
00:03:31.490 --> 00:03:33.270
If you're overspending on sales and marketing,
00:03:33.409 --> 00:03:36.009
we help you right size that. So we help you understand
00:03:36.009 --> 00:03:38.430
how much you need to spend in each specific area.
00:03:39.210 --> 00:03:41.770
The second, okay, so you have the technology.
00:03:41.889 --> 00:03:44.689
This is all technology based. So you're inputting
00:03:44.689 --> 00:03:47.169
their information. Yep, so we build our own budgeting
00:03:47.169 --> 00:03:49.889
and forecasting and benchmarking software, but
00:03:49.889 --> 00:03:53.569
it's also service. So if you want. Basically
00:03:53.569 --> 00:03:56.409
think of us. We will take over your finance department.
00:03:56.650 --> 00:04:00.210
We will be an extension of your finance department
00:04:00.210 --> 00:04:03.289
or we will just give you the technology that
00:04:03.289 --> 00:04:06.289
your finance department can use. So we, you know,
00:04:06.310 --> 00:04:09.520
are really. you know, a fractional CFO is a good
00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:14.240
way of putting it. Do you do offer done for you
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:19.199
or do it yourself? Yep. Is that both scenarios?
00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:22.360
Now, the second type of business we help are
00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:24.600
companies that have just hit a plateau. They
00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.800
grew to 20 million. They got stuck and they don't
00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:32.220
know how to get bigger. And so we help guide
00:04:32.220 --> 00:04:36.750
them on It's really interesting. Once you organize
00:04:36.750 --> 00:04:39.730
someone's financial data and you put everything
00:04:39.730 --> 00:04:43.250
into the buckets that I want to see your spending,
00:04:44.009 --> 00:04:48.170
it tells an immediate story. I can tell you exactly
00:04:48.170 --> 00:04:54.870
why you're not growing. The biggest thing when
00:04:54.870 --> 00:04:57.350
I tell people is your gross margin, which is
00:04:57.350 --> 00:04:59.709
how much money you have left over after you service
00:04:59.709 --> 00:05:03.209
your customers, 90 % of the time is too low.
00:05:03.269 --> 00:05:05.310
before they come to us. So you should be spending
00:05:05.310 --> 00:05:08.290
if you're in the service based sector, 50 % of
00:05:08.290 --> 00:05:12.470
your revenue, or less to deliver for your customers.
00:05:12.949 --> 00:05:15.790
And if you're spending more than that, you're
00:05:15.790 --> 00:05:19.470
just not delivering profitably enough. And so
00:05:19.470 --> 00:05:22.829
that's one area that we fix. Oftentimes, we find
00:05:22.829 --> 00:05:25.129
that the back office, so your HR, your legal,
00:05:25.269 --> 00:05:28.050
your corporate IT, your finance department, you
00:05:28.050 --> 00:05:30.449
know, you got some massive office that you shouldn't
00:05:30.449 --> 00:05:33.389
have got it, you know, like So we could figure
00:05:33.389 --> 00:05:37.449
out really quickly what's happening, why you're
00:05:37.449 --> 00:05:39.129
not growing and what we need to do to put you
00:05:39.129 --> 00:05:42.790
on a path to growth. OK, so this is really interesting.
00:05:42.970 --> 00:05:46.009
So give me your like what what size business
00:05:46.009 --> 00:05:49.670
do you do you find that that there, you know,
00:05:49.730 --> 00:05:52.750
the issues start growing? Is it the single solopreneur
00:05:52.750 --> 00:05:56.089
or five employees, ten employees? So I would
00:05:56.089 --> 00:05:58.810
say the issues start with every different size
00:05:58.810 --> 00:06:02.620
business. We tend to serve. $5 million to $50
00:06:02.620 --> 00:06:05.319
million businesses. And I would say the vast
00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:07.660
majority are between $10 million and $20 million.
00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:12.959
OK, so when you come into the business, you go
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.120
in, they hire you, or they bring you in. Is there
00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:19.139
some fear going on with the employees that maybe
00:06:19.139 --> 00:06:21.939
weren't keeping records correctly, spending too
00:06:21.939 --> 00:06:25.720
much money? Has that ever become an issue? So
00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.879
I'm not talking to the core group that often.
00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:33.829
Mainly, I'm talking to the CEO. If they have
00:06:33.829 --> 00:06:35.230
a finance department, I'll be talking to the
00:06:35.230 --> 00:06:37.350
finance department. I might be talking to a few
00:06:37.350 --> 00:06:42.209
leaders. I am generally very honest. When you
00:06:42.209 --> 00:06:46.670
are in the service -based industry, 80 % of your
00:06:46.670 --> 00:06:51.050
costs are people. And if you're losing money,
00:06:51.970 --> 00:06:54.730
I can tell you my playbook. You're gonna have
00:06:54.730 --> 00:06:58.829
to reduce your expenses. Everyone would love
00:06:58.829 --> 00:07:01.329
to grow based on, you know, get to profitability
00:07:01.329 --> 00:07:03.850
by just increasing revenue. But that's not a
00:07:03.850 --> 00:07:06.009
guarantee. Reducing your expenses is a guarantee.
00:07:06.970 --> 00:07:10.230
When I say reducing expenses, it generally means
00:07:10.230 --> 00:07:12.050
getting rid of people that have been with you
00:07:12.050 --> 00:07:14.089
that you love, that you've been in the trenches
00:07:14.089 --> 00:07:18.269
with that you deeply care about. And so I start
00:07:18.269 --> 00:07:21.610
off by just saying to them that I want to make
00:07:21.610 --> 00:07:24.230
sure that you have the emotional strength to
00:07:24.230 --> 00:07:29.100
do what I'm going to suggest. Because I I'm here
00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:31.800
to help you know It's kind of like when you go
00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:33.540
to the doctor and the doctor tells you you got
00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:35.220
to change your lifestyle And you got to do all
00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:38.459
these things the doctor can't make you do those
00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:40.019
things like you have to be willing to do them
00:07:40.019 --> 00:07:43.500
yourself When I come in and I try to get you
00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:49.639
to a financially healthy spot um You know you're
00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:51.839
most likely gonna have to let some people go
00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.889
and have a tough conversation and so If you can't
00:07:55.889 --> 00:07:58.230
do that, I would say two things I don't think
00:07:58.230 --> 00:07:59.949
you should be running the company if you can't
00:07:59.949 --> 00:08:03.209
do it and then the second thing is you shouldn't
00:08:03.209 --> 00:08:06.410
hire me because You're gonna waste your money
00:08:06.410 --> 00:08:08.389
because I'm gonna tell you what to do And then
00:08:08.389 --> 00:08:10.269
you're not gonna want to do it because you don't
00:08:10.269 --> 00:08:16.319
like the news So I would think that family business,
00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:19.839
it would be tougher on a family business to let
00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:22.079
someone go because I was just thinking today
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:26.480
that a lot of times employees kind of hijack
00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:28.980
the company, right? They, they in smaller, am
00:08:28.980 --> 00:08:32.259
I wrong? Like they, they tend to, you know, tell
00:08:32.259 --> 00:08:34.460
the owner what to do instead of the owner saying
00:08:34.460 --> 00:08:38.139
it. And often the owner doesn't, you know, Like
00:08:38.139 --> 00:08:39.820
has to listen because they don't want to lose
00:08:39.820 --> 00:08:43.240
that employee and it's that circle A cycle of
00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.659
the employee is good, but they're not the best
00:08:45.659 --> 00:08:48.299
or could there be someone better? But in a family
00:08:48.299 --> 00:08:50.899
business is I think that it's even harder to
00:08:50.899 --> 00:08:53.259
let someone go, but that's just me Is that what
00:08:53.259 --> 00:08:56.600
you're finding? Well, so absolutely, but let's
00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:01.639
just put it this way In every job no matter what
00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:05.019
job you take There is something that is the worst
00:09:05.019 --> 00:09:08.730
part of the job that you're just like, I absolutely
00:09:08.730 --> 00:09:12.230
dread and I hate this component. If you're going
00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:14.909
to be a CEO or you're going to be a manager,
00:09:15.870 --> 00:09:19.350
you have to make really tough decisions in a
00:09:19.350 --> 00:09:23.230
non -emotional manner. And the closer you are
00:09:23.230 --> 00:09:26.509
to those individuals, like you have Thanksgiving
00:09:26.509 --> 00:09:29.289
around the corner and if you have to fire Uncle
00:09:29.289 --> 00:09:32.669
Joe, that's gonna make it a very uncomfortable
00:09:32.669 --> 00:09:35.950
Thanksgiving dinner. But what I would tell you
00:09:35.950 --> 00:09:41.450
is, don't put yourself in that situation. I've
00:09:41.450 --> 00:09:45.149
let go of a lot of people who I deeply care about
00:09:45.149 --> 00:09:49.409
and I have great relationships with still. But
00:09:49.409 --> 00:09:52.169
when I hired them, I had an honest conversation
00:09:52.169 --> 00:09:56.070
of like, I got to run this in a non -emotional
00:09:56.070 --> 00:09:58.649
manner. Like if you're not meeting my needs or
00:09:58.649 --> 00:10:02.460
the company's needs. I'll have a conversation
00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:05.139
with you. I do it with heart, I do it with caring,
00:10:05.740 --> 00:10:08.279
but I gotta take care of the 90 % still within
00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.059
the organization as opposed to the 10 % that
00:10:11.059 --> 00:10:12.740
aren't performing to what we would want them
00:10:12.740 --> 00:10:16.779
to perform. But is that just about the people
00:10:16.779 --> 00:10:20.340
or is it? Is there other areas that you're looking
00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:24.090
at where you could save money and is that? even
00:10:24.090 --> 00:10:28.110
how companies invoice you, that maybe they're
00:10:28.110 --> 00:10:33.009
doing lawn work, painting, all of that in one
00:10:33.009 --> 00:10:35.389
bucket. And so when you're looking at it, you're
00:10:35.389 --> 00:10:38.629
unable to really break it down. Are those kind
00:10:38.629 --> 00:10:41.110
of problems taking place? I think in different
00:10:41.110 --> 00:10:44.529
industries, there might be more of a percent
00:10:44.529 --> 00:10:47.929
of your revenue that are non -people expenses.
00:10:48.850 --> 00:10:52.600
In the world of service companies, where what
00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:56.740
you sell is time, 80 % of your costs are people.
00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:00.379
So yes, you could look at the 20 % and see if
00:11:00.379 --> 00:11:02.019
there's something to do there, but I'll just
00:11:02.019 --> 00:11:06.240
give an example. Imagine you run a web development
00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:11.200
company and your revenue is $10 million. You
00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:16.019
have a budget of $5 million in order to service
00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:17.879
those customers. That's what you have to figure
00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:21.879
out how to do. Now imagine your cost is $8 million.
00:11:22.139 --> 00:11:25.220
So you're spending $3 million more than you supposed
00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:28.259
to be in that area. So you only have a 20 % gross
00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:33.299
margin, the 10 million minus eight. So when I
00:11:33.299 --> 00:11:35.580
talk about getting rid of expenses, sure, if
00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:38.259
you have some piece of technology that happened
00:11:38.259 --> 00:11:41.799
to be two of that $3 million that you don't need,
00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:45.559
that you need to cut, then that's a no brainer.
00:11:45.899 --> 00:11:48.870
I just have enough experience to know that I'm
00:11:48.870 --> 00:11:52.470
not looking at the cuts holistically across the
00:11:52.470 --> 00:11:55.769
entire company. I'm looking at by individual
00:11:55.769 --> 00:11:58.289
department based on benchmarks of how much you're
00:11:58.289 --> 00:12:02.190
supposed to spend. And so, you know, like let's
00:12:02.190 --> 00:12:06.690
just say you had a house and you know, you're
00:12:06.690 --> 00:12:09.629
like, you have a budget for the house and you're
00:12:09.629 --> 00:12:13.269
like 10 times over your budget on your landscaping
00:12:13.269 --> 00:12:15.970
and you're half a percent over your budget on
00:12:15.970 --> 00:12:17.610
I don't know your groceries or something like
00:12:17.610 --> 00:12:20.980
that. You know, we're going to go attack landscaping.
00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:23.679
We're not going to attack the groceries and it's
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:27.379
same thing with running the business. OK, so
00:12:27.379 --> 00:12:29.899
then what if what if you go into a business and
00:12:29.899 --> 00:12:33.340
you find the salaries are really high? They're
00:12:33.340 --> 00:12:36.159
exorbitant there and that family members are
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:37.960
under the salary. Have you ever had that issue
00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.200
where you have the owners are taking a very large
00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:44.080
salary? Their children are taking a large salary
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:47.519
and and how would you even fix something like
00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.639
that? So once again, my job is to give information
00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:56.039
and to try to create a sense of urgency for them
00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.639
to make the right decision. So let's just look
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:03.840
at it this way. The first thing is I get very
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.259
involved in your org structure. Typically you
00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:09.940
should have four direct reports at a minimum
00:13:09.940 --> 00:13:16.240
per manager. So using my... Eight million is
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:17.899
what you're spending, but you should only be
00:13:17.899 --> 00:13:20.960
spending five million a dollar example. I'm going
00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:23.620
to be looking at your org structure. And if I
00:13:23.620 --> 00:13:26.860
see that you got 10 managers and each of them
00:13:26.860 --> 00:13:30.220
only have two direct reports, I'm going to explain
00:13:30.220 --> 00:13:36.120
that you need to have only, you know, uh, 10
00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:38.279
direct reports. You only need three managers,
00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:41.500
you know, or four managers. I had to do the math
00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:43.580
in my head, but you know, the idea is that you
00:13:43.580 --> 00:13:46.269
have too many managers. So you're going to have
00:13:46.269 --> 00:13:49.250
to, you might have a conversation with somebody
00:13:49.250 --> 00:13:51.389
and they might say, you know, we're going to
00:13:51.389 --> 00:13:54.090
have to lower your salary and make you, you know,
00:13:54.090 --> 00:13:57.370
a direct report as opposed to a manager or we're
00:13:57.370 --> 00:13:58.789
going to have to go replace you with somebody
00:13:58.789 --> 00:14:01.970
else. Most likely you're going to replace them,
00:14:01.970 --> 00:14:03.710
but you're going to have to cut your managers
00:14:03.710 --> 00:14:08.529
by five or six to seven people. And if you're
00:14:08.529 --> 00:14:10.710
not willing to do it, you're not going to fix
00:14:10.710 --> 00:14:12.830
the problem. You know, you're going to continue
00:14:12.830 --> 00:14:15.919
to lose money. So and I'm giving you like the
00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:18.940
hard scenario there are times where it's fun
00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:22.639
You know, I have a client right now that is incredibly
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.659
profitable, but they're not growing and In this
00:14:28.659 --> 00:14:33.440
scenario they're way under investing in their
00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.899
sales and marketing and their R &D and So, you
00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:41.220
know company I was just talking to last week
00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:45.559
five million revenue 40 % in profit so they're
00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.720
making two million dollars in profit off of that
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.259
five million dollars The first thing I explained
00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:54.019
is you don't need to do anything Like you're
00:14:54.019 --> 00:14:56.080
making more than enough money like it, you know,
00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.299
like you can live like that You can live like
00:14:58.299 --> 00:14:59.940
a king like, you know, we don't need to change
00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:04.220
anything But if you want to grow and you want
00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:06.200
to go from five million to ten million, which
00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:10.759
is why they called me Then we have to reduce
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:13.889
your profits and invest in sales and marketing
00:15:13.889 --> 00:15:16.409
and invest in innovation so that you can scale
00:15:16.409 --> 00:15:20.830
and grow. That makes sense. That makes sense.
00:15:21.309 --> 00:15:25.730
So I kind of figure out where you fall as a company
00:15:25.730 --> 00:15:28.590
is looking at their P &L and they're saying,
00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:31.929
uh -oh, we're not, we're like all the different
00:15:31.929 --> 00:15:35.710
scenarios that are out there, but are they contacting
00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:40.120
you in the beginning to go through? or is it
00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:42.879
more towards the end when they realize that it's
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.879
a people problem? I hope that they're contacting
00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.440
me in the beginning, but I'll give an example.
00:15:48.620 --> 00:15:51.100
I happen to know the exact dates. October 11th
00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:56.080
of last year, I had a potential client that decided
00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:01.120
not to work with me. And they called me up a
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:05.220
few weeks ago and they did not have a good year.
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:08.750
They ran into debt. They lost money. And now
00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:11.690
we're in a major turnaround situation where I
00:16:11.690 --> 00:16:13.450
have to help them with their cash flow and make
00:16:13.450 --> 00:16:15.690
sure that they have enough cash while we turn
00:16:15.690 --> 00:16:18.610
their business around. Had they hired me a year
00:16:18.610 --> 00:16:20.549
ago, I would have saved them a lot of pain. I
00:16:20.549 --> 00:16:22.629
would have helped them sleep at night. And we
00:16:22.629 --> 00:16:24.350
probably talk about investing and putting out
00:16:24.350 --> 00:16:28.470
a path to growth as opposed to a financial turnaround.
00:16:29.190 --> 00:16:32.250
So I get people call me at all different stages.
00:16:33.309 --> 00:16:36.549
What was their objection last year? They had
00:16:36.549 --> 00:16:39.470
an internal employee that was running the finances
00:16:39.470 --> 00:16:43.009
and I don't think that they were ready to let
00:16:43.009 --> 00:16:45.730
go of that employee or and that employee was
00:16:45.730 --> 00:16:50.529
not ready to embrace us and so So they stuck
00:16:50.529 --> 00:16:53.049
with what they were currently doing and waited
00:16:53.049 --> 00:16:55.730
and I see that very you know it once again it's
00:16:55.730 --> 00:17:00.450
hard to let people go and I see that as a common
00:17:00.450 --> 00:17:04.869
thread where You have an internal finance team
00:17:04.970 --> 00:17:07.769
You're very nervous about making a change to
00:17:07.769 --> 00:17:10.230
that team, but that team's not giving you what
00:17:10.230 --> 00:17:14.589
you need. But OK, so this kind of circles around,
00:17:14.730 --> 00:17:16.369
though, to my like my first question, because
00:17:16.369 --> 00:17:19.769
that was kind of my first thought is that there's
00:17:19.769 --> 00:17:22.710
many people in positions that probably aren't
00:17:22.710 --> 00:17:26.109
so wonderful, but. there may be a relationship,
00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:30.490
not like a relationship, but maybe that there's
00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:32.789
a couple of things that they do that the CEO
00:17:32.789 --> 00:17:35.309
loves, right? But there's some things that are
00:17:35.309 --> 00:17:38.490
not offering what that company needs. So they
00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:40.789
get in that position, that pickle of not wanting
00:17:40.789 --> 00:17:43.609
to let someone go. So it's nice to be able to
00:17:43.609 --> 00:17:46.950
turn it over to you, right? So that it kind of
00:17:46.950 --> 00:17:50.109
takes the emotion out of it and takes that you're
00:17:50.109 --> 00:17:53.029
doing it. So I think that really makes sense.
00:17:53.309 --> 00:17:56.269
Weirdo people, when they get to this situation,
00:17:56.410 --> 00:17:59.390
how do they even look you up? Like, what does
00:17:59.390 --> 00:18:03.049
that look like as far as like, if I, oh, I'm
00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:05.869
going to use this word. Don't laugh, John. Okay.
00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:08.769
Maybe you're too young. Back in the day, when
00:18:08.769 --> 00:18:12.269
you use the yellow pages, what would I look you
00:18:12.269 --> 00:18:14.089
up? If I was going to go to the yellow pages
00:18:14.089 --> 00:18:17.920
or Google, how do I Google what you do? probably
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.779
fractional CFO would be like the typical term
00:18:20.779 --> 00:18:23.279
people would look for. By the way, I worked for
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.539
a very brief moment for the third largest yellow
00:18:25.539 --> 00:18:27.940
page advertising agency. So I am old enough to
00:18:27.940 --> 00:18:34.460
know what the yellow pages are. But but going
00:18:34.460 --> 00:18:36.480
back to your comment before about the emotional
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.720
aspects, this goes back to my comment. The worst
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:43.140
part of being a manager or CEO is that you have
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:47.799
to fire people. And If you can't do the job,
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:50.079
then I would really challenge if you're the right
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:54.380
person for that job. And so if you're in a family
00:18:54.380 --> 00:18:56.920
run business, you've hired your best friend,
00:18:57.019 --> 00:19:00.619
you've hired your cousin, you know, like, you
00:19:00.619 --> 00:19:04.220
can't sacrifice the quality of your company,
00:19:04.460 --> 00:19:06.599
because you're scared of those decisions, you
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.220
need to make sure that you put yourself in a
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:10.200
place that you can make those decisions. And
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:16.400
this is my the example I like to use is The president
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.700
of the United States sends bombs into other countries
00:19:20.700 --> 00:19:24.539
and kills people. And I personally couldn't do
00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:28.119
that job. I could not sleep at night personally
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:33.680
that I made a mistake and impacted someone in
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.119
such a drastic way or a country in such a drastic
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:40.700
way. I can do this job. I can run a company and
00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:43.619
make the tough decisions. because I generally
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:46.079
believe that although I may be causing pain,
00:19:46.700 --> 00:19:50.000
I can help them find their next job, that it's
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.039
generally, you know, a temporary pain point,
00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:55.140
not a permanent pain point, you know, but it's
00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:58.559
a horrible part of the job. And so that's where
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.019
I agree with you, it's harder in a family run
00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:03.480
business, but I still think that you need to
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:08.029
have the ability to make those decisions. So
00:20:08.029 --> 00:20:09.809
interesting. John, hold on for one second. I
00:20:09.809 --> 00:20:12.049
just want to say hello to Latonya and Bruce.
00:20:12.490 --> 00:20:14.990
They are here live on Chatter Social. I don't
00:20:14.990 --> 00:20:19.589
know if you can see that. So, Latonya or Bruce,
00:20:19.829 --> 00:20:21.430
thank you for being here, both of you. And if
00:20:21.430 --> 00:20:24.490
you have any questions, please let us know. And
00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:26.630
actually, what I want John to do, if you don't
00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:29.910
mind repeating this, I meet you in the elevator
00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:33.400
and we're going up to my pet house suite. that
00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.059
I have all five Patton House suites in the building.
00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:39.380
But seriously, give me your elevator pitch so
00:20:39.380 --> 00:20:41.259
that Bruce and Latonya and anyone else listening
00:20:41.259 --> 00:20:43.980
or coming in halfway understand what you do.
00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:48.779
So my company, Fiscal Advocate, specializes in
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:53.039
helping five million to $50 million service -based
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.160
companies manage their finances more effectively,
00:20:56.619 --> 00:20:59.119
provide strategic planning and executive coaching
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.309
to help you focus three numbers. how much cash
00:21:02.309 --> 00:21:05.670
you have relative to your monthly overhead. Microsoft
00:21:05.670 --> 00:21:09.029
bought LinkedIn for $26 .2 billion in an all
00:21:09.029 --> 00:21:11.490
cash deal. If you have lots of cash, you have
00:21:11.490 --> 00:21:15.049
lots of optionality. Improve your profit margin
00:21:15.049 --> 00:21:17.569
and have you grow faster on a year over year
00:21:17.569 --> 00:21:22.390
basis. Interesting. So how I look at it, John,
00:21:22.509 --> 00:21:24.390
is that you could be in business and you could
00:21:24.390 --> 00:21:26.369
put like, you know, a paper bag over your head
00:21:26.369 --> 00:21:29.670
and not really see what's taking place and kind
00:21:29.670 --> 00:21:32.230
of just hope every month that the numbers match
00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:34.690
up. And you may be thinking to yourself, well,
00:21:34.690 --> 00:21:37.670
I don't have the money to even go this route,
00:21:37.950 --> 00:21:42.230
but like share that you spend to save is kind
00:21:42.230 --> 00:21:44.950
of how I look at this. It's a great way of looking
00:21:44.950 --> 00:21:47.460
at it, you know. I happen to know the service
00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:49.900
based space, but every industry has benchmarks.
00:21:50.539 --> 00:21:53.740
But the goal in a service based company is 20
00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:57.700
% of your revenue is profit. And if you have
00:21:57.700 --> 00:22:02.079
been year after year after year below 20%, you
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:04.920
are overspending somewhere and not getting the
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.380
impact or the return off of that investment.
00:22:07.819 --> 00:22:11.859
And so by hiring us, we're going to get you to
00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:13.880
that 20 % profit, we're going to get you more
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:16.440
money than what you pay us. So it It's a really
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:20.359
good trade. And the other part is, ideally, we're
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:21.839
going to put you on a path to growth, that we're
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:23.599
going to get you to spend your time and your
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:26.279
money more intelligently and more effectively
00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:31.660
to grow appropriately. So is this a proprietary
00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:35.599
software, too, that you have? Yeah, so we have
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:38.920
one piece of software called Engine BI that does
00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.960
budgeting, forecasting, benchmarking, specifically
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:44.569
designed for the service -based industry. It's
00:22:44.569 --> 00:22:47.809
basically taking what I did at Rise Interactive,
00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:51.529
which I had Google Sheets and I productized it.
00:22:51.809 --> 00:22:54.450
And then next quarter, we're launching an AI
00:22:54.450 --> 00:22:57.609
CFO co -pilot. So think of it as eventually it
00:22:57.609 --> 00:22:59.670
will connect to your bank account, your accounting
00:22:59.670 --> 00:23:02.450
software, your credit cards, your time tracking,
00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:06.509
your CRM, and any question you have that relates
00:23:06.509 --> 00:23:16.119
to your... financial needs, it will be an answer.
00:23:17.500 --> 00:23:21.660
Wait, you can use the word copilot. Yeah, I don't
00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:24.460
think that Microsoft owns the word copilot. I
00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:27.000
call it a CFO copilot, so it's not the product
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:30.759
name. It's just what it is. It's a it's a copilot
00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.660
to the CFO to help them. I love it. I love it.
00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:36.160
I love it. And Bruce and Tanya, if you have any
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.940
questions, please let us know. This is a little
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:42.099
bit over my head between just between us. Hopefully
00:23:42.099 --> 00:23:47.140
nobody else hears. So what questions should I
00:23:47.140 --> 00:23:52.200
be asking you since I really do no prep? You
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:57.880
know, assuming your audience is. interested in
00:23:57.880 --> 00:24:00.160
either two things, stabilizing their business
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:02.880
or growing faster. The first thing I explained
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:05.539
is there are only three KPIs that matter. The
00:24:05.539 --> 00:24:08.119
ones I just mentioned, your cash, your profit
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.619
margin and your revenue growth. And if you narrow
00:24:11.619 --> 00:24:13.880
all of your decisions to just improving those
00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:16.579
three numbers, that to me is a really good starting
00:24:16.579 --> 00:24:22.539
point. The second thing is, you know, what you
00:24:22.539 --> 00:24:27.190
want to do is there's a department in the finance
00:24:27.190 --> 00:24:29.730
group called FP &A. It stands for financial planning
00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:32.289
and analysis. And I think it is one of the most
00:24:32.289 --> 00:24:34.029
important elements to growing your business.
00:24:34.089 --> 00:24:36.990
So it will do your budgeting, your forecasting,
00:24:37.289 --> 00:24:40.630
your cashflow analysis. It's really giving you
00:24:40.630 --> 00:24:42.569
your forward -looking insights and you should
00:24:42.569 --> 00:24:45.410
be investing and having those forward -looking
00:24:45.410 --> 00:24:48.730
insights. The third thing, and this was the trick
00:24:48.730 --> 00:24:52.140
to how I grew RISE. was I focused on servicing
00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:54.839
our customers as profitably as we possibly could.
00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:57.680
And then I used that money to invest more in
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.720
sales and marketing and more into R &D. The big
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.380
number that you want to look at is what percent
00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:06.740
of your revenue do you spend on sales and marketing?
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:10.400
And you want it to be as high a percent as possible.
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.779
So if you're spending more on sales and marketing
00:25:12.779 --> 00:25:15.279
relative to your competition is the exact same
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:20.759
size, you should have an edge over time. Interesting.
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.779
Sorry, Mike. I have to just clear out some windows
00:25:23.779 --> 00:25:29.980
because it's causing an issue. Oh, Bruce, Bruce,
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:34.119
say hello. Hi, Bruce. Nice to see you too. Good
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:38.180
afternoon. Now it is afternoon in Vegas. Does
00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:43.500
this pertain more to corporate type businesses?
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:45.880
You know, brick and mortar type businesses, because
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.509
I'm an entrepreneur and I'm. building a business
00:25:49.509 --> 00:25:53.549
through another company. I'm an independent business
00:25:53.549 --> 00:26:03.410
owner. So when I go out and I am growing my team
00:26:03.410 --> 00:26:08.569
and when I'm out there getting customers, I do
00:26:08.569 --> 00:26:11.849
it more of a one -on -one basis. I can do it
00:26:11.849 --> 00:26:15.049
online and do that kind of way, but I'm more
00:26:16.100 --> 00:26:18.299
successful when I go out and just have conversations
00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:22.259
and I go out and I give samples and do things
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:25.779
like that. So is this more geared towards the
00:26:25.779 --> 00:26:29.119
corporate type of a structure? It's really geared
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:30.740
for any business, but let me ask you, Bruce,
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:35.700
what does your business do? I have, I sell products,
00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:39.140
everything from cleaning supplies all the way
00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:43.819
to health and wellness. So I got the whole gamut,
00:26:43.819 --> 00:26:48.059
personal care. You know, I do all that. OK, and
00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:51.099
then tell me a little bit about what are your
00:26:51.099 --> 00:26:53.099
dreams like? Do you want to keep it small? Do
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:55.140
you want to grow it into something large? Like
00:26:55.140 --> 00:26:58.740
how big of a company do you want to create? I
00:26:58.740 --> 00:27:01.440
want it to be as big as I can make it. You know,
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:05.140
OK, I'm able to what the way of structured. You
00:27:05.140 --> 00:27:08.019
know, once I build my team and once I get my
00:27:08.019 --> 00:27:10.980
customers, I can build it as big as I want to
00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:14.759
grow it and then I can also will it. over to
00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.619
the next generation should some well when not
00:27:18.619 --> 00:27:21.920
should when something happens and i'm gone i
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.400
can uh pass it on to the next generation and
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:26.920
they can grow on top of what i've already grown
00:27:26.920 --> 00:27:31.500
and how many employees do you have today uh i
00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:36.299
don't need any employees at all zero okay so
00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:40.880
the first thing is if you want to grow uh i say
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.960
You can't have a goal unless you budget for it.
00:27:45.500 --> 00:27:49.119
So the first thing you have to think about is
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.740
what percent of your revenue are you going to
00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:55.480
dedicate to sales and marketing and to help you
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:57.240
win new customers? Now, it could be that you're
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.460
still the sales person, but you're going to spend
00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:03.599
more money on travel to go to more events. It
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:05.220
could be that you're going to hire somebody and
00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.160
they're going to go to those events. It could
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:08.660
be that you're going to do a media campaign.
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:11.160
There's lots of different ways to spend it. but
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:12.740
if you don't spend money on sales and marketing,
00:28:12.859 --> 00:28:16.339
you're not going to grow. Second thing I would
00:28:16.339 --> 00:28:19.599
be thinking about is over time, if you can add
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.460
more and more poise, there are really, you know,
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:24.220
in every business is a different industry, but
00:28:24.220 --> 00:28:25.799
you know, you're going to have a head of growth.
00:28:26.420 --> 00:28:27.460
You're going to have a head of someone taking
00:28:27.460 --> 00:28:30.359
care of the customers. You're going to have a
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:32.180
head of your back office and you might have a
00:28:32.180 --> 00:28:34.740
head of innovation. And right now it might be
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:37.019
you doing all of those things, but like, you
00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:39.980
know, 2026 is around the corner. you want to
00:28:39.980 --> 00:28:41.839
start thinking about what investments are you
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:43.880
going to make so that your business is better
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:45.740
at the end of the year than it is at the beginning
00:28:45.740 --> 00:28:47.180
of the year. You want to think about what is
00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:48.720
your revenue number going to be? What is your
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.920
profit number going to be? And, and so, you know,
00:28:52.220 --> 00:28:55.859
right now, it doesn't matter that you're a, you
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:58.240
know, a one person shop, you should be really
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.779
investing in your budgeting and strategically
00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:02.380
thinking about how you spend your time and your
00:29:02.380 --> 00:29:04.759
money next year, so that you'll get the greatest
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:09.289
return. Okay. All right, that's some good information.
00:29:09.990 --> 00:29:12.450
That is, Bruce. Thank you. Great question. Thank
00:29:12.450 --> 00:29:17.009
you, Bruce. I really appreciate it. So I am not
00:29:17.009 --> 00:29:19.089
sure if I have any more questions. You answered
00:29:19.089 --> 00:29:21.849
everything. I have a much better idea of what
00:29:21.849 --> 00:29:26.690
you do now and can grasp it. And I've heard of
00:29:26.690 --> 00:29:30.589
other companies that go in and do this. They,
00:29:30.589 --> 00:29:32.970
you know, will go in and, but it's very, very
00:29:32.970 --> 00:29:35.170
software, like, you know, pretty much they're
00:29:35.170 --> 00:29:36.970
taking the numbers, putting in the software and
00:29:36.970 --> 00:29:40.049
spinning it back out. It sounds like you are
00:29:40.049 --> 00:29:42.349
more hands -on. You may be doing that, but you're
00:29:42.349 --> 00:29:45.990
doing more of the, you know, speaking with the
00:29:45.990 --> 00:29:50.289
CFO. And you are actually letting the people
00:29:50.289 --> 00:29:52.309
go. I mean, are you the one that's doing it?
00:29:53.089 --> 00:29:55.309
I'm just giving them the guidance of how much
00:29:55.309 --> 00:29:58.250
they need to spend. And I'll help them think
00:29:58.250 --> 00:30:01.910
about how much to spend in those areas. But yes,
00:30:01.930 --> 00:30:06.910
I come with a philosophy and approach. My software
00:30:06.910 --> 00:30:11.049
mirrors that approach. But I really, you know,
00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:13.930
what I found that's necessary when you hire a
00:30:13.930 --> 00:30:17.259
CFO. is that you need someone with a crazy sense
00:30:17.259 --> 00:30:19.980
of urgency to help you make those decisions.
00:30:21.740 --> 00:30:25.759
And that they, I hate to use the word pressure,
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.700
but they care enough that they don't just say
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:31.339
like, hey, go make a decision and then go to
00:30:31.339 --> 00:30:32.880
sleep at night, whether they make the decision
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:36.700
or not. That we need to make things happen and
00:30:36.700 --> 00:30:40.599
we need to make them happen very quickly. So
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:47.900
interesting. October 14 and 15, we had an event
00:30:47.900 --> 00:30:50.619
called Swat in Order. This is the book from the
00:30:50.619 --> 00:30:53.140
speakers. But you fall right into that because
00:30:53.140 --> 00:30:55.740
that's exactly where people need to look at their
00:30:55.740 --> 00:30:58.440
strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats.
00:30:59.619 --> 00:31:02.980
Absolutely. I love that. I will have to ask you
00:31:02.980 --> 00:31:04.920
to be a speaker at our next one when we do it
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.680
next year. It was a great event. We multi -streamed
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.220
it. We were live on chatter. So all the speakers
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:13.059
were kind of surprised to have a real voice.
00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:15.700
Bruce is a real person. And of course, they have
00:31:15.700 --> 00:31:18.799
their chapter in the book, which is great. I
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.000
don't have any other questions. So unless I totally
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.460
missed something, I want to thank you for being
00:31:24.460 --> 00:31:27.900
bold enough to come on live. It's never easy.
00:31:28.650 --> 00:31:31.109
And you answered a lot of questions. And I absolutely,
00:31:31.250 --> 00:31:34.569
how can we, what can we listen to? So if we're
00:31:34.569 --> 00:31:36.930
having a conversation or I like to go out to
00:31:36.930 --> 00:31:38.970
eat and listen to other people's conversations,
00:31:39.269 --> 00:31:41.009
like I'm sure Bruce, you like to listen to other
00:31:41.009 --> 00:31:43.190
people's conversations. I'm kidding you. I'm
00:31:43.190 --> 00:31:45.150
sure I'm the only one that does that. But if
00:31:45.150 --> 00:31:47.789
I heard someone saying, geez, our business is
00:31:47.789 --> 00:31:50.690
at 10 million, but we're having troubles, you
00:31:50.690 --> 00:31:54.309
know, meeting our salary or meeting our goals.
00:31:54.829 --> 00:31:57.329
I could say, wait, talk to a fiscal advocate.
00:31:58.099 --> 00:32:00.400
Yep. So a couple of things. I post every week
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.720
on LinkedIn three times a week at a minimum,
00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:06.079
never miss a week. So you can go find me at LinkedIn.
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.779
You can go to fiscal advocate .com. I have a
00:32:08.779 --> 00:32:11.019
fairly large resource section. I have an ebook
00:32:11.019 --> 00:32:14.519
with my whole philosophy. And then you can always
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.700
email me. I'd love to hear from anybody at jln
00:32:16.700 --> 00:32:20.160
at fiscal advocate .com. Oh, I love that. I'm
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:22.519
putting the, okay. I'm putting it right here.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:27.339
Amazing. Yeah, really. I found this fascinating.
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:31.839
A little over my head, but fascinating. I really
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:34.640
understand. Okay. So thank you so much for your
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.500
time, John. I appreciate it. Thank you, Bruce
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:39.420
and Latonya. Appreciate your being here. And
00:32:39.420 --> 00:32:41.000
thank you for anyone that's watching or will
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.740
be watching. This will be turned into a podcast.
00:32:44.339 --> 00:32:47.220
And so I will send you that information, John,
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:51.710
and love PodMatch. So, so glad that you... found
00:32:51.710 --> 00:32:54.950
me on pod match so glad to be here and i'm really
00:32:54.950 --> 00:32:58.630
happy as well thank you so much all right well
00:32:58.630 --> 00:33:01.410
have a great rest of the day and i appreciate
00:33:01.410 --> 00:33:03.769
your being here absolutely you too have a good
00:33:03.769 --> 00:33:06.609
one and thank you for uh for those who joined
00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:09.490
yes thank you so much you guys i'm gonna close
00:33:09.490 --> 00:33:11.589
the room because i'm gonna end the stream so
00:33:11.589 --> 00:33:14.089
thank you so so much for being here it always
00:33:14.089 --> 00:33:16.009
means a lot to me and uh
