When Politics Rips Couples Apart
Jerry & Kristy discuss the growing trend of angry politics ripping couples apart and testing their relationships as the media around them continue to provoke people to ever-rising levels of division. Alternatives are considered.
Hi, you're listening to LoveWork - Skills for A Relational Life. This is the beginning of our second season. Our podcast with my co host, Kristy Gaisford of Utah. Hi, Kristy . Hi, Jerry, so good to be back.
Kristy Gaisford:Is that,
Unknown:This is our second season? Yeah. How about that? I like it. So the idea for today's podcast came from one of our listeners, and we'll let them remain nameless, or anonymous. And she had an excellent, excellent idea for a podcast, which was when politics rips people apart, which I've been hearing more of. And I don't know, I want to ask you what you've been hearing in couples, and they bring this type of battle into our rooms. What do you see? It's very volatile. I've seen people almost break up over it in session.
Kristy Gaisford:Yes, it's very controversial, very volatile. And people get really worked up about it.
Jerry Sander:And from from both sides, Oh, yeah. As if there's only two sides. But people, people have gotten passionate about their points of view. And what seems different to me now than ever before, is that they're not just content to disagree, and say, well, they see it this way, I see it that way.
Kristy Gaisford:Some of what I see as one person won't stop bringing it up, and the other person doesn't want to talk about it, because they know it doesn't lead anywhere. So they say, I've told you I don't want to talk about politics. Why do you keep bringing it up. And then the fight becomes about that, even more than the politics.
Jerry Sander:Also in this is the media, I hear from people, my husband or wife won't stop watching X channel, and seems to believe everything they say on that stupid channel. I don't watch that channel. I watched the other channel. And I'm definitely the media throws kerosene on these fires.
Kristy Gaisford:It definitely does it puts people even further and further apart. So that's tricky. If you're living with someone who's doing that and believes completely different. You can see how this is a really tricky topic.
Jerry Sander:I've realized how and it extends not just to elections, or midterm elections or presidential politics, because of the way COVID emerged as a national concern. And people not being even United about that. Or what would be the interest of the public health anymore, and being angry or suspicious or conspiratorial thinking about that. People have had to even confront their spouse about how do we protect our children, or ourselves. And I'm aware of one case where a woman told me she had to smuggle her kid out of the house, to take the kid to go get immunized to get the COVID shot, because her husband absolutely did not believe in it and believed it was some kind of plot and, you know, microchips and Bill Gates and stuff like that. And she just felt like no, I'm not going to leave my kid unprotected. But that had to be done behind his back.
Kristy Gaisford:Wow, I think that's a great example because that a lot of those things have been happening. And then what happens when I think the underlying thing a lot of this is my partner's crazy. Yes. Now we that's what people are saying on both sides. My partner is crazy. How can I be with somebody who is crazy and who believes these things? And then we start to catastrophize Oh, my gosh, what does this mean? What does this mean for our future? What is he he's not the person I thought he was? Or she's not the person I thought she was. And we they became worse and worse and worse in our in our mind and we were terrified.
Jerry Sander:And you and I know from our work with doing the bootcamp trainings that a certain amount of this my partner's not who I first thought they were going to be is normal in every long term relationship or marriage. Wow, I'm kind of learning what they're really like, you know, the the early phase is over. But this is goes at its extreme goes beyond saying, Well, I'm learning that my partner's different from me into I'm learning my partner's a demon.
Kristy Gaisford:Right? And the thing is, this is where our personalities come out to because some people really enjoy a good debate. And they think it's fun. And they might be very to someone who does not find it one bit fun and feels completely threatened. By the debate.
Jerry Sander:By the way, for our argument today in our podcast, I think we should make it about politics, you know, okay, well model that. Yeah. Because. Okay, so So one way to look at this issue is that this issue has come in and is making otherwise good enough relationships are awful. The other way to look at it is no good enough relationships remain good enough relationships. This is most afflicting people who had quite a lot of vulnerability in their relationships. Maybe they weren't doing so well, anyway. Right. Yeah. What's your thought about that?
Kristy Gaisford:I think it can be both. I think it's, it can be an issue that really breaks people up or causes a lot of turmoil. And it can be something that just highlights what was already brewing underneath.
Jerry Sander:Yeah, I mean, if it's, if it's a real and I want to hear your thoughts on or you jotted down your mitt, let's do that right. Now. Let's go to what thoughts you wrote down about that, because I had some thoughts.
Kristy Gaisford:Well, I wrote down what we can do about it. So these are,
Jerry Sander:so let's hold off on that. Because here's, here's what I'm seeing, okay, is that for some people, this is like an exit ramp. Like, I can't possibly live in this relationship anymore. All they watch is that channel and repeat what this commentator says, and I can't stand it. And it's the direct opposite to my values, the direct opposite, and I'm not going to do it anymore. And for those couples, it is an exit ramp. It's like how do we how do we end? I think for other couples, it can be an entrance ramp to couples therapy, that this is typically what goes on in our relationship only now it's politics. But we had a problem before with going one up over each other or not listening with respect, and we want to work on it. And we think that's possible, too.
Kristy Gaisford:Yeah, it can bring up the issues of I can't be with you if you're not like me, which can be in so many different ways. But it can exacerbated by politics. And it brings up a lot of the issue of respect. Because if your partner doesn't want to hear that all day long, then you need to respect the space of your shared home and try to come up with a way that you can both live there in a peaceful way.
Jerry Sander:Not just Yeah, say more about that. I like that.
Kristy Gaisford:Well, if you want to do whatever you want to do, and watch whatever you want to watch, whenever you want to watch it, then you should be alone. But if you want to be happily married, then you need to take into consideration that the needs and desires of your partner and make some compromise. Maybe you listen to things on your with your air pods. And you know, maybe you watch it when your partner is not around but to make them listen to something all day long, this agitating and this can come between you you are putting yourself over the partnership.
Jerry Sander:mean certainly. One option a couple can do is find a third source that's not their favored source to watch as news. Something as neutral as possible. I I like PBS NewsHour with Judy Woodruff it's not CNN, it's not Fox. It's not anything like that, or what BBC America or something like just go outside your box and find something it's also outside your partner's box, watch it and talk about it. But with respect
Kristy Gaisford:or agreed not to talk about it. You might have to carry to a point where you don't see eye to eye and you never will. And then you know that if you talk about it, it's going to keep bringing out conflict every single time. And my dad I was with my dad last week and he sent the best comment he said I think if we didn't All compartmentalize to some extent we would all go crazy. And so I've been thinking about that I think it's so true. I think this is one area that some couples might just need to compartmentalize, I need to put this area of our relationship in a box and close the lid and not bring it up between us. Because if we do, we're both gonna go crazy. But if I love this person enough, and they get enough from them in every other area besides the politics, then it's worth it to me to stay with this person. But we're going to agree to just put that issue aside, because it's doing way more harm than good to talk about. Okay,
Jerry Sander:that's interesting. And it takes two people agreeing to do that.
Kristy Gaisford:Yes. Right. That's that was the issue was one of my couples that I said earlier. She didn't want to talk about it, he kept bringing it up, and it would cause two huge explosions.
Jerry Sander:Christy and I will be in New York City on October 1. And second, doing our essential relational skills weekend boot camp, come join us. If you're an individual or a couple, that wanting to get back on the same page with the important person in your life, this is a chance to connect with others and learn some skills and practice them. Develop a vocabulary. Go to our website, love work relationships.com. Click on how we help and relationship bootcamp. And you will find registration links we'll also be doing at the end of October, online, but come see us in person if you can. You know, I was thinking about the concept that Terry real has talked about, of normal marital hatred. And I have my own feelings about that concept. But I was thinking about how that plays in or overlaps with this kind of political anger. When your partner has different political beliefs than you, how do you? How do you process that marital hatred, stuff?
Kristy Gaisford:Well, I think what we do is, we see our own point of view. And we can see what our partner sees. So what people do what people believe makes sense to them. And so we're looking through our own lens at our partner, and we're saying, how could you possibly believe that if you believe that, and then we make stuff up, if you believe that, then you must be racist, a bigot, a narcissist of whatever you fill it in, that's what we make up these things that like, You must be crazy, if you believe that. And then we we, like I said, before we catastrophize, that this partner must not be the person we know. Because Anyone that believes that must be this, this and this. And that's because we're only seeing it through our own lens. But if we can, if we can step back a little bit, which is hard, and say, Okay, maybe they're none of those things. Maybe the reason they believe that is a totally different angle that I'm missing. Because I have a huge blind spot of things I've never considered. And we saw this in one of our boot camps, I don't know if you remember a couple of brought this issue up, they were having a lot of conflict. And we sat in the same room with the woman was upset at the man. And we sat in the room with this couple for two days. And our experience was that the man was a great partner, and a really good father and a very good, decent person. And I remember we said, well, he can't be all those things you're making him up to be? What about the data in the room? What about all the things he's done, to show up and show you that he's not those things? And I think we start to ignore what's true, and we start to think we think in stereotypes.
Jerry Sander:Well, that is what the media is encouraging people to do with politics, is think in terms of very easy, nasty stereotypes. And when you start doing that, there are millions of people who agree with you, but you might not be living with one of them. You might be living with someone who absolutely disagrees with you. So having the backing of the media that you choose to watch and millions of other people puffs you up to this grandiose one up position, where you're obviously dealing with a jerk in your household. And that's what helped people start I'm putting together what is wrong with my spouse. They don't see what's going on. There. There was a fascinating article in The New York Times. That was about a week or two ago that said that 69% of Democrats and 69% of Republicans agree that democracy is in danger of collapse. Wow, they were in agreement. But they blamed different reasons. The Democrats said, democracy was going to collapse because of Donald Trump and the Maga Republicans. And the Republicans said democracy was going to collapse because of President Biden and the socialist Democrats. So there you go. There you go. Now, when when you get to a state of puffed up anger, the next thing that happens is contempt and criticism in the household for your partner it unless you reach that enlightened place that you said, your couple did have, like, you know, let's agree not to talk about some of these things. Those are people who already are in couples therapy. But if you're not in couples therapy, and you're experiencing this, and you're getting relentless criticism for your perceived dumbness, and then you're getting contempt from the other person. Those are half of the four horsemen of the apocalypse that Gottman talks about as couple's relationship destroying stuff. The other two are defensiveness, and stonewalling. All of which happens very easily in these political conversations.
Kristy Gaisford:So this is interesting, I was just on this little this bike trip in Italy, and our bike, our tour guide is from Italy. And he said that this thing I thought was so interesting, he said, Well, there's this thing in Italy, where every town thinks that they're the normal town, and that the town just just across the way, they're great, but they're a little off for an all for different reasons. And, and, and I just laugh because I thought, isn't that how we all are, like our ways the right way, and, and the other people's way is just a little bit off. And so I think if we can realize this makes sense to me. But how do I really know? I mean, these aren't like factual things. These are all opinions.
Jerry Sander:That's exactly right. This is how things occur to me, and how I react to things. You know, I know someone who went to a religious service, and they went through it change in clerical positions, and the one woman was remained there, but there's a different guys singing with her. And person said, I can't listen to them sing together. There's something about her voice that just gets me and it's too shrill or something, maybe sometimes as a duet, but I really can't listen to her sing. And I had the opposite response. I like how she sounds. So which one of us is right? And, again, if you have like sheer preference, then you extend that to politics. Someone's going to say I like Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. And someone else was saying she totally annoys me. I am totally annoyed by everything about her. Or Beto O'Rourke, you know, or Greg Abbott of Texas, like, do we have the right to just say, Todd? Oh, no, it doesn't work for me. The problem is people don't say that doesn't work for me. People say you're wrong. Can't you see you're wrong. Right. Now, let's get back to the marital hatred. Stop for a sec. Okay? Because I've never bought into that. I don't accept that as a useful concept of Terry reels. I don't believe it. I think there is normal divorce hatred. But
Kristy Gaisford:I believe in it, so I want to hear what you're saying. Gonna say okay.
Jerry Sander:What I'm gonna say is it's not hatred. It's intense frustration. of why can't you be like me? Why can't you come to your senses and be more like me? What is the problem? What is wrong with you? Now? It can cross into contempt, but it's not like I hate you. It's more like intense frustration. Why would you be comfortable with calling it hatred Chrissy?
Kristy Gaisford:Because I felt it before I felt like oh my gosh, I hate him. Right now in this moment, I feel like I hate him. Even though I love him. And I think a lot of people feel that way, when they're so frustrated, they feel like they don't know maybe it's an immature word, but it's the it's the knee jerk reaction that you feel when you feel like I can't stand this person. Why are they doing this? Right? Okay, so
Jerry Sander:we're kind of saying the right the same thing that was when you can't stand what the person is saying or doing or acting like.
Kristy Gaisford:And the reason I think I like that it's brought up is because people don't talk about it. So then you think maybe you have a bad marriage, if you felt that like that before, when in reality, everybody feels like that at certain times.
Jerry Sander:Yeah, I mean, I saved my hatred for very, very hateful thing. And I, I just wouldn't think of it as hate to my married partner, but I would think of it as angry frustration. So I think, if we're saying that it's all subjective, and someone's going to work for you as a political figure, and not for someone else, then there's no proving who's right or wrong about it. It's just not going to be possible to be proven the problem. And I watched, we watched Terry real work in one of these couples experientially with a couple. I don't know if you remember this, he was sort of a moderate, New Hampshire Republican, the kind of guy who would support George Bush for president. And were Jeb Bush even. And she was a Cuban non believer. And she would he felt she was driving their relationship over the brink, that he couldn't deal with her anymore, that she had to try to convince him all the time. And it wasn't a marvelously effective session, as I recall. I'm not sure Terry knocked that one out of the ballpark, it was very, very hard. Because if you honestly believe something that is dramatic, like, if you believe that Nancy Pelosi is involved with a Satanist cabal of people who exploit children and, you know, sexually abused them, or kill them and drink their blood or something, that's a big belief, yeah, that you would need to provide some data. If you're asking anyone else to believe that, let's see the data. And unless that data is forthcoming, in a reputable way, that's not too different from people who believe that UFOs are, you know, in contact, and just just other things that they believe because they believe that it can work the other way, too. It can work the other way. But that was a Q anon example, that was pretty much destroying the couple.
Kristy Gaisford:Well, the problem is, if you let it become the central part of your marriage, in your relationship, I mean, if you have really different views, but you keep it apart, and then you have tons of things in common that you work on, then you can withstand this. But if you make it this central part of your relationship, and you're you don't agree, you're probably going to break up the relationship. It has to be, you know, in proportion.
Jerry Sander:And that's, that's where I start wondering, like, what was this relationship like, before this? Was it really all hunky dory? Or is this stuff not a vehicle to amplify what was already there?
Kristy Gaisford:Yeah, I think it's Ken, can I be with someone who believes differently than I do? And can we respect each other? I think that's part of the problem is that we don't respect each other's beliefs, because they do seem crazy to us, you know, but if you can respect your partner enough to compartmentalize at least, or, you know, let them you know, the first time I really saw politics close up. I don't know if you call it politics. But the issues close up, I was 24. And I was getting my master's degree in social work, and I was working in Harlem. And I was first working with this family and this girl wouldn't go to school and she was like, I don't need to go to school. I'm just gonna get a check like my Grandma, and I was like, Oh, this is so terrible that they're teaching them just not to work because they're getting checks, you know. And then I started working with this other woman, this, like, awesome woman, Joanne, and she was in these really hard circumstances. And she said, and as I got to know her, she said, her, she never knew her dad, her mom was schizophrenic, they lived on the street. And she had nothing, no support. And I was like, give her a check. She, she needs support, you know? And I don't know the answers to any of it. But I know that it's extremely complicated. When you're, when you're really down on the ground with the people, it's very different than talking about policies up in the sky, you know? And, and I think, you know, maybe it takes some more of that, like, really being curious and, and having,
Jerry Sander:oh, that's a really good point, because people all across the political spectrum would probably want to help that one woman, they probably would read whether they were called Republicans or Democrats or independents or anything they would want to help her, like, how do we help this woman? And getting specific? And local is one of the answers, I think to this? Why don't we agree on what we can agree about what needs to happen around here? Around? You know, we all apparently 69% of us believe democracy is in real danger. And we're just saying, well, because you cause it to be in danger. No, because you cause it to be in danger. And we're never going to agree on these personalities. I think one of the things that have made things more volatile, Christie, is that there always has been a lingering reality that men and women see the abortion issue necessarily different. Because it's not men's bodies. It's men. Look, by and large men passing rules about what can happen with women's bodies, and resentment about that, that has come about through the Supreme Court decision. It has reached kind of epidemic levels at this point, with a feeling of Don't tell me you understand, what what is what our reaction is, you can't possibly understand our feelings about this. Right? And that I think that needs to be acknowledged and respected. Yeah, as well as someone saying, I believe in the right to life and, and I think life starts whenever and this is my deeply held religious belief, okay, if that's someone's religious belief that has to be respected, but we're not talking to each other with respect.
Kristy Gaisford:Right? It reminds me of Byron, Katie, her her four questions, which I didn't write down, so I'm probably not going to get it perfectly right. But it's, you know, if my partner believes this, then they must be right. But she has you stop and say, Is this true? Do do I know for absolutely certain that this is true that my partner is a chauvinist, for example. And then you say, Who would I be without this thought? You have to stop what? What is the evidence that he's not a chauvinist? Okay, maybe he's not a chauvinist. He's actually been very helpful. He's been awesome with our girls. He's has supported me and my career, etc, etc. I'm making this up. But we have to stop ourselves in our thoughts as we're catastrophizing and characterizing our partner and making a caricature out of them. Because of this one issue, and we're ignoring the whole human that they are.
Jerry Sander:I think we have to listen to people to about their individual experiences. They're the experts in their individual experiences. If someone's saying to you, I got pregnant when I was 16. And here's what happened to me. I think that's worth listening to. The same way. Someone who may identify as extremely conservative may say, I deeply believe I was passed over for a job, because I wasn't they hired someone of a different ethnic group. They wanted to bring in someone show that they had someone who had darker skin than me or something, when I feel I was more qualified, that that person needs to be listened to. And everyone is fighting to feel seen and valued. And on an epic scale. I think it's when it gets poisoned, is when it becomes amplified with hate. Yeah, And that's happening now and I am predicting is going to get worse instead of better over the next two years.
Kristy Gaisford:And the way I've been talking has been assuming the best, I mean, maybe you're gonna uncover that your partner isn't who you thought they weren't, and it is for the worst. I mean, I think we both haven't had experiences. For me, it's very rare, but in therapy where you assume the best, and then the more you uncover, the more you realize, oh, this person really is hateful and intolerant. That and they're proud of it. And you know, if that's what you discover, well, maybe you don't want to stay in the relationship? I don't know.
Jerry Sander:Yeah. Yes, I think that's, that's can be one of the things that happens when you're seeking clarity. And you go into couples therapy, and you get clarity. You get honest clarity about who your partner really is, when push comes to shove, not just what they watch on TV, or not, what they say when they think they've got a million people backing them. But who are they interpersonally with me? And how are they capable of listening to me and respecting my point of view, or they're just going to try and make themselves feel better by putting me down. And if that's happening, that probably happens in other areas of our life, too. And very often, this is just the final straw. So I think marriages are going to break up over this stuff. And maybe the rate of divorce will increase, maybe it won't. And that's always a poor indicator, because that doesn't tell us how many people are living together happily, or with respect. A lot of people stay married in bad marriages.
Kristy Gaisford:Yes, it but I think that most people can withstand this. I think it's politics shouldn't be such a huge part of a relationship. There should be so many other things, that if you if you have a relatively good relationship, focus on all the good that you have together. Don't let this be the one thing that because you're not the same, you let it become 90% of your relationship.
Jerry Sander:Exactly. I mean, we talked about five areas of intimacy, right. doing physical things together outside, not sexual stuff. emotional intimacy, intellectual intimacy. I read this article in the Times today. Spiritual intimacy, about and then sexual intimacy. There's nothing in there about agreeing on Joe Biden or Donald Trump. There's nothing in there about that. Yeah. Did you have more or should we do our fight week? I'm ready to fight to have you.
Kristy Gaisford:I'm ready to fight.
Jerry Sander:I don't use too much you pick a fight. Oh, God, God picking fights. Call fight. Okay, and we will show a better way of doing this. So we're demonstrating the wrong way to do it first.
Kristy Gaisford:Okay. Don't tell me you actually voted for him. Don't even tell me that you actually voted for him.
Jerry Sander:Why would that bother you, Christie? Oh, my
Kristy Gaisford:I can't even don't even get me started. Are you? Did you seriously vote for him? Do you know what he's like? Do you know what that means?
Jerry Sander:I'm just because I didn't go to Columbia University. Maybe I don't know what that means. What you tell me what that means?
Kristy Gaisford:How could you support somebody that is is so terrible, that is just a terrible human being that his women
Jerry Sander:are worse. You know?
Kristy Gaisford:You If you support him, that's like supporting abusive, abusive people because he's been so abusive to women. And so basically, you're aligning yourself with someone who's abused women, and you don't even care.
Jerry Sander:I'm not saying he's an angel. I'd say Okay, so like, Joe Biden, Joe Biden, you see like the way he like Pat's little kids on the head, and stands behind women and give them shoulder rubs or something. I've seen video that I've seen video. Well, that creeps me out. creeps me out. You don't see that.
Kristy Gaisford:That pales in comparison to some other things I've heard about the other person.
Jerry Sander:Say it you can say oh, Trump, okay, Donald Trump. Okay, you're saying so models and other people who use their bodies for money come up and alleged things about him and he settled lawsuits and stuff and you're saying bad things about him because of that. I said he wasn't an angel.
Kristy Gaisford:No, I'm saying he, he says it's okay to touch women in their private parts. Like that's a huge violence goofing
Jerry Sander:around Heath who thought he was it was that I don't approve him saying that, and no one approved him saying that. But that doesn't mean that his politics were all wrong, or he's not the guy to lead the country, you know,
Kristy Gaisford:oh my gosh, don't even get me started like, this makes my heart rate go up. Like the fact that you can even say this just,
Jerry Sander:well, who would you vote for Nancy Pelosi, she's like, 150 years old or something? Like, you know,
Kristy Gaisford:I didn't say there was somebody great I wanted to vote for but I just wouldn't vote for someone who's such a chauvinistic, misogynistic person.
Jerry Sander:Well, this is why I was I'm afraid to ever talk to you about it, because you like you're up on your high horse, and you've got these judgments. And, you know, I feel like you make I feel like I gotta keep it to myself. Please do?
Kristy Gaisford:Oh, it would be great.
Jerry Sander:Well, then there's a lot I'll keep to myself. Okay. All right. That was really bad. That was terrible. That was terrible. I would not want to live in that household. No, that's awful. All right. And how are we going to do this? How are we going to correct this?
Kristy Gaisford:i No,
Jerry Sander:no, I have to I have to. Okay, try the same thing again. Like, try it? I'll try and
Kristy Gaisford:okay, I see that you just, I see that you just voted. Please don't tell me you voted for him?
Jerry Sander:Well, look, it's a real hard personal decision for each of us. Think we're grownups. And we know all these people are flawed. The question of weighing, you know, all in all, which one comes closer to my values? That's what I'm thinking. So yeah, I voted for him. You didn't?
Kristy Gaisford:You have to ask me that.
Jerry Sander:Didn't you want?
Kristy Gaisford:Well, I don't even know. Well, can we just agree to disagree? I feel like this is a landmine for me. I feel. I feel like you can't have a very great conversation about it. But I do respect that you have your own experiences and that you come at this a different angle than I do. But I don't want to debate about it. Because it just
Jerry Sander:it makes me saying you're not you're not open to debate about it.
Kristy Gaisford:No, I'm not right. At least not right now. Is that okay with you?
Jerry Sander:I mean, I, if you're not going to take it out on me, though, or get back at me or retaliate or anything?
Kristy Gaisford:I don't feel like that. No, I feel like I can, I can respect that you see things and you see the world differently, because you've had a different experience. And that there's things about your decision that I'm I'm not aware of. And I just hope that you can respect me and my decision, and I'll try to,
Jerry Sander:of course I do. Of course I do. And I can and thank you for saying that I do. I do respect you. And honestly, this guy behaves like a jerk with some frequency. And I know that. And I know that a lot of people who actually voted for him because they didn't like the alternative knows that he act like a jerk with some frequency. We kind of take what he says and divide it in half and half of it maybe can be taken seriously the other half. He tries to be a comedian. He thinks he's being funny. He's not funny. Yeah, I voted for him. But he's, he's I don't, he's not my role model. I just voted for him instead of someone else, you know, but I don't want it to wreck us and I don't want to have retaliation or debates. It's more important to have things be good here.
Kristy Gaisford:I agree. I mean, I heard Terry rail say that. For some women, having Trump in office is like having your abuser in the highest power. And that hit close to home for me. So that's why it's too close to my heart to even debate it. I just would rather table it but I think you'll
Jerry Sander:get it and I know you've been through some crappy experiences with people will probably remind you of him. So I get it. I really do get it. Thank you for explaining. You're welcome.
Kristy Gaisford:Thanks for understanding. Yep. What do we have for dinner?
Jerry Sander:Yeah. Who's cooking? Great. Both of us, both of us. Yeah. That was just as good as it gets, I think. Yeah.
Kristy Gaisford:I don't I don't think we can ever expect our partner to be just like us. Or to see the world the way we through the same lens. We're all different. But if we can have respect for that, relationships can get through it.
Jerry Sander:I think you're right. There's a there's an inevitable Heartbreak. Or mild, manageable. Heartbreak about how different are partner is from us in some key areas. And I think we manage that heartbreak, you know, it's not like, heartbroken, I need to be done with this relationship. It's just a would have been so good if they aligned with you every single way. Yeah, you know, and they
Kristy Gaisford:don't, and they don't get, ya know, it's those micro disappointments.
Jerry Sander:Yeah, yeah. But it doesn't Doom you. And it's, in fact, gives you the work to do shows you your work edge in loving the person with all their flaws.
Kristy Gaisford:Yeah, if I asked on this trip I was on there were three couples that have been married 40 years, 48 years and 50 years. So I asked them, What was the secret to a long, happy marriage. And one person said, you have to just remember that this is the person you want to be with. And then you choose to make it work. And remembering that that's what you want. And then someone else said, It's an endless cycle of giving and forgiving, which I really liked.
Jerry Sander:That's really good. Yeah, that's really good. And then
Kristy Gaisford:the third one was very similar. They just said there's compromise and choosing to love them over and over again.
Jerry Sander:I think that's inspiring. And none of them are saying, Oh, we believe politically exactly the same stuff. Didn't matter.
Kristy Gaisford:Know, what mattered was their relationship. So put politics in its proper spot, and make it as small as you can. It's not what life's all about.
Jerry Sander:Good advice. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So next time, we're talking about the conflicts that come up me versus us, finding time for yourself and how that always impacts the relationship. What to do. Yes. See you next time.
Kristy Gaisford:Okay, take care. Thanks, Jerry.