Getting the Partner You Want

Kristy (00:02.343)
Hi, welcome to Love Work. Hi, Jerry. How are you doing?

Jerry (00:05.154)
Hi Kristy, good to see you. How are you doing? Doing well. We got frost on the pumpkin. So everybody's holding their breath a little, like, you know. But there's still some really nice days. How b how about out there?

Kristy (00:10.486)
Kristy (00:14.902)
Mm.

Kristy (00:19.422)
Yeah, there's still some nice days. They say snow is coming but it's been pretty nice this week, so I'll take it as long as I can get it.

Jerry (00:26.44)
Excellent. Yeah. Well you have a good topic for today, so explain that.

Kristy (00:32.81)
Yeah, the topic for today is getting the partner that you want. And the reason I was thinking about this is because I watched a movie. It's actually one of my favorite movies. It's called Enough Said. And it stars Julia Louise Dreyfus and James Gandolfini. wow. Yeah, so good. And Julia starts dating James Gandolfini in the movie and she really, really likes him.

Jerry (00:46.466)
Huh, I don't know it.

Jerry (00:51.964)
wow.

Kristy (01:02.944)
And then she ends up becoming friends with his ex wife, not realizing at first, and the ex wife tells her so many horrible things about him. And then she kind of starts to feel differently about him, but it's not based on her own experience. And he he calls her on it and she she tells him what happened and and then she works through it and but the reason I I've

Jerry (01:07.115)
Yeah.

Jerry (01:13.666)
Ha ha ha.

Kristy (01:33.239)
And thinking about this is because so much of how we treat our partner or how we see them are based on the stories that that we make up, based on our own experience. And a lot of times we're acting defensively and then we bring that out in our partner. And w we're also responsible for the repartner we get, right? Like if we're constantly poking our partner in the eye or criticizing them or blaming them.

we're gonna get a a pretty bad version of our partner back and then we're gonna blame our partner for being difficult, but we don't realize our part in in in the system. And sorry I'll stop talking soon, but I've also Yeah, well I've also seen this happen with clients where you see a couple and and one of tells you how difficult her partner is and he's

Jerry (02:15.192)
No, no, it's good. You're really explaining it well.

Kristy (02:29.722)
he's just impossible to live with and and all these terrible things and then they end up getting divorced and then the partner ends up in a really happy relationship with someone else. And and it just makes you wonder like, okay, so was this person as awful as she thought, or was there something about the dynamic that you were bringing out the worst in each other? And I th I think that happens a lot in couples. And we do

Jerry (02:29.922)
Yeah.

Kristy (03:00.002)
trigger those those wounded parts and if we don't take responsibility for those parts we will be reactive and then we will continue to elicit those defensive parts in our partner and we won't see them clearly and they won't see us clearly but frankly we will create the relationship that that we don't want and not realize we had anything to do with it.

Jerry (03:26.86)
That's that's profoundly true, isn't it? Isn't it? That the failure to take responsibility for the defensive parts, because it feels so natural to just respond back defensively. It it just feels like what you want to do if you're feeling attacked or something. I where I went when I was listening to you d talk about this was when you were talking about the movie.

Kristy (03:32.142)
Yes.

Jerry (03:56.756)
And that he was divorced, right? Like, divorce is an amazing teacher. It is there's no better teacher than failure in my book, you know. Divorce really shows you that something you're doing doesn't work out well. And then there's two kinds of people after they get divorced, those who think, all right, maybe I had something to do with it.

Kristy (03:56.846)
Mm.

Yep.

Jerry (04:26.623)
And then others who just say, okay, I hope I meet someone nice this time, you know? So with like no insight. So taking responsibility for the defensive parts and how that actually led to a failure can be your best friend as you're moving towards the next part of your life, I'm thinking. And that's why what you're describing, someone going from a miserable relationship to suddenly they're with someone and they're happy.

Kristy (04:31.256)
Yeah.

Jerry (04:54.143)
It's not just 'cause they met the most perfect person in the world. It's that they've changed. Yeah, I th I think yeah.

Kristy (05:00.162)
They've they've changed and the person they're with sees all those positive qualities and brings that out in them. They

Jerry (05:05.717)
Yeah. And you weren't showing it to your ex.

Kristy (05:10.59)
No, but partly because your ex was so critical of you. Right? So yeah, we're always a part of the system. Mhm.

Jerry (05:14.133)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a loop it's like a defensive loop, yeah. It's like of course you're not gonna share those lovely parts with your partner if you're getting attacked or you feel you're getting attacked. It's amazing how people can't stop that, yeah.

Kristy (05:29.878)
And the the hard Well yeah, that's what I was gonna say. The hard part is when you're in such a cycle that both people feel like a victim of the other person and then it they feel justified in continuing because they're offending from the victim position. And it it is hard to break the cycle for one person to stop and say, I'm gonna I'm going to treat my partner with respect, with warmth, with

Jerry (05:46.988)
Yeah.

Kristy (05:58.808)
fairness with re forgiveness, even if they're behaving badly. It's it's hard to get to that place. But it is in your best interest because you live in that relationship, you live in that biosphere.

Jerry (06:14.849)
And you don't want an endless loop that shows no prospect of changing. It's I I I'm always working with people to try to get them to be the one to say, okay, I don't like this way this is between the two of us. I think we can do better. And I would like to do better. I miss you. I want to reach for you.

you know, someone needs to state an intention other than just responding. Cause

Kristy (06:51.574)
Yeah, or even say, take accountability for your part in it. I know I've been really walled off. I've been super defensive. I've been I've been really self righteous and critical and I'm sorry. I don't want to be like that anymore. It it's really hard to start with you, I think, with yourself. I I really do because our hurt

Jerry (07:09.793)
And that yeah, go ahead.

Jerry (07:15.307)
Why is that? Why is that? We're all grown ups and we're supposed to be all mature. Why is it so hard to start with ourselves?

Kristy (07:23.786)
It's because those when we're really hurt it it we we go to those places of like that wounded child of I'm I'm j I'm so hurt that I'm sort of w we've talked about this before, but w I'm blinded by this hurt. I can't see outside of it. I feel like such a victim that I can't own my part in this. And and it does take kind of a s stepping back, looking above the situation rather than being in it and kind of looking at the dynamic and thinking

Jerry (07:43.735)
Yeah.

Kristy (07:54.09)
Okay, I must play some part in this. So what is my

Jerry (07:55.213)
Yeah. Yeah. Even if it's even if it's just a negative attitude, even if it's just you know, that's a type of passive thing. Like I I will show my partner a negative attitude and they'll read my mind as to why I'm really upset and they'll apologize or something.

Kristy (08:17.974)
Right. It's that retaliation that's a perverse form of empathy. Like if if I make you feel bad enough, you'll apologize, which never works.

Jerry (08:20.717)
Yeah.

Jerry (08:29.737)
No, I I I avoided that pitfall this morning. we had a guy coming over to look at the router situation for the internet. I'd been l having internet instability during my Zoom meetings. It's like I really it was very boring topic, but he's bringing two routers over, he's gonna fix it. Well, the dogs we have two dogs.

Kristy (08:47.805)
huh.

Jerry (08:56.097)
went insane when he pulled up at like 8 30 in the morning. They went nuts. It was like they were barking at the top of their lungs. And Eli, one of the dogs, has just gone through heartworm treatment where he's not supposed to get agitated or exercise or do anything. He's supposed to be calm. Well, i he was like barking at the top of his lungs nonstop. And the guy was trying to talk to me about internet connectability

Kristy (08:58.903)
Kristy (09:15.01)
Yeah.

Jerry (09:25.619)
And bandwidth and latency and we're going room to room and the dogs are going crazy. And my wife, this was her yoga morning, said, I'm going to yoga now, which was our agreement and our understanding. I would handle the guy. And in that moment, my system was so flooded with like agitated, overwhelmed responses, I felt angry, like I wanted

Kristy (09:38.646)
Mm.

Jerry (09:55.313)
Help, please, universe, help me, you know? And they kept barking the entire time he was here. And we did our thing. I was under a lot of stress. That's when I couldn't find the Apple password, which is different from the Apple account, which is different from the Apple ID. And I couldn't even test out the system. So anyway, the point is my wife came home from yoga and I was able to be mature enough to ask, how was yoga?

Kristy (09:58.742)
Yeah.

Kristy (10:08.461)
Mm-hmm.

Kristy (10:24.341)
Come on.

Jerry (10:24.565)
And she said, it was really good. It was really good. You know, maybe maybe part of me wanted it to be really bad today, yoga or something, you know, like server, right? And I I realized like an hour later we were sitting outside talking, and I said, you know, I was I was angry. I was overwhelmed, my system was flooded, I couldn't stand the sound of the dogs barking, I couldn't hear the guy, I couldn't remember passwords, and I was angry.

Kristy (10:29.688)
Good job.

Jerry (10:53.985)
That you went, you just drove off, you know? And she said, Yeah, I drove off early. I drove off you I had to get out of the house. It was so insane. And I was envious and I was laughing. And I said, I wanted to drive off, you know. Now, the point is you can talk about it and end up on the same side, which we did, which was that was overwhelming. That was like ridiculous. That was, you know, thank and she thanked me for

Kristy (10:57.539)
Mm-hmm.

Kristy (11:01.144)
I had to out of the house.

Jerry (11:22.317)
For handling the guy and this

Kristy (11:26.016)
And I think the key to that story is that you talked about it after when you're both calm. Like if you would have said something at the time it probably would have come out snarky and it could have started something different. No, not you, I just know people.

Jerry (11:30.037)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jerry (11:38.615)
Sounds like you know me. That's right. Yeah. So it no, but it's true. It's true, Christy. It is true. It would have been snarky. So knowing when to not say this is misunderstanding, I think people feel that therapists say, just always express your feelings all the time. No, there are times where being quiet is the right move. because what's gonna come out of your mouth is gonna be bad. It's just gonna be that defensive young part of you.

Kristy (12:08.886)
Yeah. I also I also think it's true that you really see what you focus on. And if you if you focus on all the things about your partner that you can't stand and that drive you crazy, they're gonna be all you see. And then you're gonna treat them like this person you can't stand. And

Jerry (12:08.993)
Yeah. Not the wise at all.

Jerry (12:30.027)
Yeah, say more about that because th they give us evidence in both directions, right? In a given week you'll see stuff about your partner that don't like and stuff you really like.

Kristy (12:43.138)
Yeah, and I I just think what you choose to to focus on is what you'll notice. If you start to notice like all the ways that you're appreciative of your partner and all the things they do for you and and the reasons you love them, you're gonna notice them and you'll treat them with appreciation and love and you'll get a better partner. That's that's my point. Like the way you treat them is gonna it it's going to affect the person that comes back at you.

So if if you give them beautiful treatment and you're generous and you're kind and you're forgiving, like I said, you're gonna get a partner who's pretty great coming back at you. I mean, I know there's exceptions, but in general. And if you treat somebody like they're a pain in the butt and and you're really critical of everything they do, you're probably gonna get a pretty defensive critical partner that's not that fun to be with.

Jerry (13:40.973)
True. And you know, I'm thinking of how we talk about the three different phases of love in the boot camps, that the first phase is you just think you've won the lottery completely, like a hundred percent, right? That everything about them is utterly perfect. Like you wouldn't change a thing.

Kristy (13:56.738)
Yeah.

Kristy (14:02.744)
Yep, and no one's ever felt this way but you too.

Jerry (14:05.831)
Yeah. And then I don't know how long that lasts, but then challenges come up and part of you thinks, you're kidding, right? That's that's how the closet looks or something like that. and it's I don't find enough couples allow for disappointment because it's okay to be disappointed.

in your partner or your partner's behavior, it's not the end, it's not the apocalypse.

Kristy (14:39.884)
Yeah, it's just normal. It's normal, right? We're all disappointed sometimes.

Jerry (14:45.293)
And P S they're disappointed in us. For no reason at all.

Kristy (14:48.971)
Yes.

Exactly. It's a mystery. It's a mystery. But you're right, the phase two of I don't feel much love for my partner. I'm just really annoyed. And then the phase three of I know everything about this person and I choose to love them. I choose to focus on the reasons I love them.

Jerry (15:13.889)
Yeah, and people tend to not think about that until something awful happens, you know, or some some accident or their their partner's in the hospital or their partner's worst case, you know, gone. And then they realize I've I've loved this person every day. And and and they annoyed me with their behavior sometimes.

Kristy (15:38.272)
Yeah, and I didn't fully appreciate it the way I wish I did now.

Jerry (15:42.729)
That's a terrible place to be. I mean, if you're living with that kind of regret forthcoming, you know, how much better is it to just realize you're very lucky to have this person in your life and you can be annoyed by stuff they do as well.

Kristy (16:02.979)
Mm-hmm.

Jerry (16:07.485)
Exceptions. There are exceptions and we've talked about this a bunch about the stable misery people.

Kristy (16:16.066)
Yeah, and and you know, there are abusive people that no matter how you treat them, they're gonna be abusive back. So I don't wanna overly generalize, but in general I think that we have a bigger impact than we think on what we're gonna get back from our partner.

Jerry (16:34.957)
So you're saying, you know, I'm thinking of the Harville Hendricks quote that it's not about finding the right partner, it's about becoming the right partner. That's the key. That if you become a generous, kind, humble presence doesn't mean you're not going to have anger or upset at them. You're just going to remain.

generous and kind and humble, that that raises that role models for them, first of all, how you want things to be, and it increases the chance they're gonna be that way as well.

Kristy (17:19.702)
Yeah. I mean, picture like a little Buddha doll sitting there with a smile, like I mean no none of us are Buddha, but it's it's hard to imagine like getting into a raging fight with someone who's very centered and and calm and mature. So the likelihood of being able to work things work through things goes up if you're doing your own work.

Jerry (17:43.051)
You know, where do we get our fear of disagreeing with people? It's funny because I I used to have that. there was such a crummy history between my mother and I around things like Thanksgiving and stuff like that, that it just got so tense and it was so loaded, it was so apocalyptic, it was like a tense chess game. And I remember one year when it would have been really hot.

Hard to drive out to the middle of Long Island with three kids and two dogs on the Cross Bronx Expressway on Thanksgiving Day, where I j it was just the exact opposite of what I wanted to do. And a therapist suggested I say to her, I don't think it's going to work out. I don't I don't think that's what I prefer to do. And I said,

Kristy (18:40.387)
Mm.

Jerry (18:41.417)
You can't say that to my mother. You can't she'll go ballistic, you know? But I said it and she said, okay.

Kristy (18:52.265)
wow.

Jerry (18:53.331)
And it was such a relief. Wow, I actually asked for what I wanted that one time and I got it. Now there are other times where you do ask for what you want and you don't get it, but

Kristy (19:07.542)
Or she may have gone ballistic, but you still get to do what works for you and kind of detach from the outcome, right?

Jerry (19:14.579)
Yes, and you are no longer part of that dyad that goes ballistic. You've changed the story, you've rewritten the narrative.

Kristy (19:20.674)
Yeah.

Or that's codependent and has to keep pleasing her out of fear.

Jerry (19:29.291)
Yeah, how how relevant is all this with all the holidays coming up? I keep thinking of like almost every family that I work with is going through this. Like, where are they gonna go for the holidays? Where do they wanna go? How do they want the holidays to be? How are the holidays usually? you know, it's it's amazing how tense it becomes for people.

Kristy (19:57.836)
There's a lot of history and a lot of relationships to manage. I think it gets very fraught, especially when people are very opinionated and sensitive and offended easily. If you have relatives like that it makes it harder.

Jerry (20:15.469)
Do you think that's gotten worse? I mean, we've talked some about politics and religion and stuff like that over the years, but has that gotten worse instead of better?

Kristy (20:26.604)
I'm not sure. What do you think?

Jerry (20:31.155)
I think so. I I think it's gotten into this side versus the other side. Where if it was really about behaviors, most people would meet and be similar. Like like you can be one flavor of political belief or another flavor of political belief, but you'd probably stu stop if there are ducks crossing the road in a with the mother duck leading these ducks, you know?

where you'd probably help someone who has a flat tire. Like this is real life stuff instead of what we're whipped up to do. I just find the corrosive influence of social media and the news is is

Kristy (21:11.88)
yeah. No, I definitely think that's worse. I didn't I didn't realize that's what you were asking. Yes. It's very much more divisive.

Jerry (21:17.407)
Yeah, I'm thinking of what these conversations are gonna be like around Thanksgiving table and and I

Kristy (21:23.436)
I mean, I think a lot of families try to avoid it at this point 'cause it's it's rough.

Jerry (21:29.547)
Yeah. At what you know, I know this is not really our topic, but at what point do children, adult children or almost adult children, have the right to call their own shots as to how they would like the holidays to go with their family versus just doing tradition. I

Kristy (21:50.518)
I don't I just I guess I don't like the way you said that exactly, like call the shots. I think they get to have a a discussion. Both people should be able to have a conversation about what will work and their feelings about it. I don't think anyone really calls the shots, but like, yeah, w we should be able to ha bring up conversations and tell each other how we feel and what works for us and try to compromise.

Jerry (21:55.959)
Yeah.

Jerry (22:15.949)
Try to compromise. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Are you gonna stay put for Thanksgiving or are you going to you're traveling?

Kristy (22:23.726)
I'm actually travelling with my family. My my immediate family.

Jerry (22:29.473)
How many hours is it to get there?

Kristy (22:32.398)
I think like seven or eight. Yeah.

Jerry (22:35.393)
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. All right, you're going somewhere fun. Okay, good. I like staying home. I don't know, maybe it's I don't know why. The Hudson Valley is beautiful in fall and I like to wanna hold on to it before it snows. All right, so we got we got kind of off topic. Having the kind of

Kristy (22:39.616)
Yeah, we're excited though. It'll be Yeah.

Kristy (22:59.763)
Yeah, that makes sense.

Jerry (23:05.377)
Helping shape your partner.

Kristy (23:05.686)
Yeah, so Yeah, so we're gonna have a a fight right now and I'm gonna br try to I'm gonna experiment with trying to bring out the worst in you. And then and then and then I'll do it the other way and and we'll see how different a partner could be. So

Jerry (23:18.327)
Ha ha ha And then I'll do it the other way. Okay.

so I'm minding my own business and you're picking to fight? Yeah. good.

Kristy (23:28.12)
Yeah.

Wha why are you still sitting there? You told me you were gonna pick up all those piles like a half an hour ago. Don't you realize people are coming over?

Jerry (23:38.219)
Yeah, when are they coming over? They coming o they're not here, I'm not here anywhere.

Kristy (23:39.968)
I told you they're I told you they're on their way here. What are you doing? You're just sitting on your butt.

Jerry (23:44.631)
Well, they're not here. How long does it take to scoop the things up and put it put it in a closet?

Kristy (23:49.484)
my gosh, why can't I ever get any help around here? You told me you were gonna help me No, I've been doing this all by myself. You're just sitting there. What are you even doing? You're not even helping at all. What are you doing? What are you like playing on your games right now?

Jerry (23:52.577)
Why can't I ever get any help around here? Didn't I do the mulch pile? I did what I mowed the lawn, I did the weed whacking.

Okay, why are you flying around the room on a broomstick throwing hand grenades at me? Why?

Kristy (24:08.48)
I'm telling you I can't get any help around here. Why are you just sitting there when you know

Jerry (24:11.733)
I'm not your help. It's like us doing it together and I don't appreciate the way you're saying it.

Kristy (24:16.352)
Your friends are on their way here and you're doing nothing.

Jerry (24:18.605)
They're my friends. You think their house looks perfect? You think they they would go nuts too if they were being spoken to this way.

Kristy (24:25.804)
What are you talking about? Just my gosh, just help.

Jerry (24:27.952)
my gosh.

Kristy (24:32.312)
Don't you want to say anything about me?

Jerry (24:35.293)
No, I I think what you you what you say speaks for itself. It's like this the way you want to live, this the way you want our relationship to be, like you just flip out and go off and I'm supposed to say, okay. You know? Does that sound right to you?

Kristy (24:52.078)
That's not what's happening. You're just you're just acting like the victim, but you haven't even done what you said you were gonna do.

Jerry (24:59.059)
I in like point two seconds? I mean what's the time limit on my doing this thing? I'm thinking before the doorbell rings and before they get here. Is that okay? Is that a good that's not good enough? that was an ambush. Wow. That was

Kristy (25:09.365)
No.

Kristy (25:13.408)
Okay, should we stop? I know, I know, I know. It's not fun. Did I ever tell you my brother said he couldn't listen to our fights 'cause it like makes him so uncomfortable? Yeah, I know.

Jerry (25:30.389)
I'm so they're so real. I I know. I mean the fact that we could just whip these things out tells us something. Okay. So the nice version. I'll try and be

Kristy (25:39.672)
Okay, I'll I'll try to Yeah, so I didn't I didn't bring out the the best sides of you by the way I did that, right? Okay. Hey, are you are you busy?

Jerry (25:47.174)
Hell no, hell no, no.

Jerry (25:55.053)
I was just kinda looking at the Times, but there's an interesting article about the Middle East how how come? Why?

Kristy (26:03.062)
Well, your friends are on their way over and I just was wanting to have the the table cleaned up before they get here 'cause I'm I'm just trying to straighten up. And I was wondering if you would mind

Jerry (26:12.959)
Okay. no, I appreciate it. Thank you for making the dip, by the way. I saw that. That was really good. My my favorite dip, I like that. And the celery sticks and all that. So what, you want me to clean up the the table? Is would that help? No, I wouldn't mind. I'll I'll do that. I mean that would help, right? Is that what you're saying?

Kristy (26:18.901)
yeah, you're welcome.

Kristy (26:26.828)
Yeah, do you mind? You just have you have a few of

Kristy (26:33.428)
Yeah, it would help. And I don't I don't wanna be too pushy, but if you could do it now it would just help me 'cause I have anxiety about getting things done before they arrive.

Jerry (26:41.353)
Okay. All right. Yeah, I don't want you to I guess you know, personally I could be doing it as they're arriving at the door, but I get that you like it done a little bit in advance and the place does look really good, by the way. So whatever you've been doing while I've been reading, I'm sorry, you know, trying to help, but I get distracted. Yeah.

Kristy (26:56.663)
thank you.

Kristy (27:05.634)
Yeah, well no, thank you. I appreciate it. And then I mean, I'm I'm pretty much finished with the food, but maybe you could just help me get out the crackers and cheese after that and then we'll be ready.

Jerry (27:15.383)
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good deal. That's a good deal. Thank you for doing this because they kind of are my friends and I appreciate that you put effort into it. I will return that favor when your friends come over. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you got a different you got a different guy, didn't you? You got a different guy to deal with.

Kristy (27:29.87)
Thank you. Appreciate it.

Whew, that seemed a little better. Didn't I?

Jerry (27:43.969)
That was let's talk about why that worked. it's interesting 'cause you were still anxious about about but I didn't feel clobbered. I felt like

Kristy (27:55.98)
I didn't I didn't blame you for my anxiety. Or did you feel that? I I

Jerry (28:00.149)
Yeah. No, you didn't no, you didn't blame me. And you kind of inquired what I was doing. The tone was welcoming. It wasn't like, what are you up to? Instead of, What are you doing? Would have been the same words, you know? Yeah. Just the tone was, what are you doing now? You know, like, I'm reading a paper. I didn't feel like I had to defend it is the point. Just from your tone. Your tone was

Kristy (28:14.208)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kristy (28:25.601)
Yeah.

Kristy (28:29.932)
Respectful. I felt like I was respecting y yeah. I felt I felt much different. Like I was whatever you was doing whatever you were doing was fine. I just

Jerry (28:29.946)
huh yeah, wasn't one up, yeah.

Jerry (28:40.203)
It felt like you also presumed I would of course help you instead of of course he's a lazy bum.

Kristy (28:48.979)
Yes, yes. I think that's a big deal.

Jerry (28:54.603)
Yeah, so it felt like an invitation to be a productive member of the couple getting ready for the guests to come over. It didn't feel like a test and I think sometimes people make these things tests, you know. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I did all this while you were sitting there reading and you're still sitting there reading.

Kristy (29:11.68)
In in competitions, who does more?

Kristy (29:20.928)
Yes. Mm-hmm.

Jerry (29:24.296)
Obviously you're guilty.

Kristy (29:26.562)
Yep, be a big bum. That was the tone.

Jerry (29:28.257)
Yeah. And then yeah, but that was missing the second time you did it. It it felt like an invitation. Yeah, you just felt like you were s speaking like someone I would like to join with in with in having people over. it's amazing how activated guys can get when they feel like it's the tone of their mother or school teacher or something like that.

you know, depending upon what their mother was like. But that felt like the tone of an equal.

Kristy (30:01.08)
Mm-hmm.

Kristy (30:06.348)
Yeah, and I think it's obviously this is more layered than what we can exp explain right now, but because maybe n maybe the first version of me has like years of history of of my partner not helping out. So I know Well, there's reasons, right? But even if that's the truth, I'm not gonna get what I want by behaving the way I did.

Jerry (30:16.277)
Maybe the first version of me has like years of history of my partner not helping out. Yeah, what if yeah, what if that? Yeah.

Jerry (30:32.853)
That's Right. So So it's even strategically sensible to do what you did, yeah.

Kristy (30:33.664)
Right. So it

Kristy (30:38.666)
Yeah, and w we don't have a right to misbehave even if our partner's misbehaving and and it's not in our best interest and we won't get what we really want.

Jerry (30:51.679)
And ultimately, a week from now, a month from now, a year from now, how big a deal was this stuff anyway? Why couldn't you just like put down the paper and help? this is not gonna be one for the record books. Stuff like this happens all the time. If you can just be a little flexible, along with, you know, I have on my wall to remind me, I have the words humility, kindness, curiosity, and pleasure. I look for that.

Kristy (31:18.158)
Mm.

Jerry (31:20.445)
in all these interactions. not we had a fight about getting the table ready. It seems so stupid. You know, again, if your partner ended up in the hospital or wasn't even with you anymore, it would be really stupid that we had a fight about the table. Yeah.

Kristy (31:37.12)
Mm-hmm. I I I like this quote by WH Auden. He said, If equal affection cannot be, let the more loving one be me. And I really like that because you can hold yourself accountable to being a loving partner without, you know, kind of keeping score and worrying about who's loving more.

Jerry (31:48.565)
Mm.

Jerry (32:01.921)
That's excellent. I'm just thinking as you were saying that, that we grow into these roles of husband and wife with no one having really told you what it's supposed to be like, just your observations of your own parents and others. And then you kind of do your best, but you're aware that you fall short sometimes. It's all human. Come on in, the water's fine, yeah.

Kristy (32:26.292)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it's never too late to change the tone of the relationship.

Jerry (32:34.759)
If you can catch yourself, if you can catch yourself, I I'm still working on that. I I did well the other day. I'm s I said I'm sorry I was so grumpy after breakfast. there were reasons, but you know that Ben Franklin quote, never never ruin an apology with an excuse. So you don't even have to say I was grumpy because X, Y, and Z. You can just apologize for it. Yeah. my dog is still barking. Listen to that. That's amazing.

Kristy (32:53.291)
Mm.

Kristy (33:00.194)
Yeah.

Jerry (33:04.309)
Gonna be on the podcast.

Kristy (33:07.03)
yeah, I can I can kinda hear it, yeah.

Jerry (33:11.456)
Well, good speaking with you. Yeah. events. you have a boot camp coming up.

Kristy (33:12.642)
Well thank you. Yeah, you too.

Kristy (33:19.084)
Yeah, actually next weekend the November seventh and eighth in Salt Lake City. So we have a few a few spots open if anybody wants to join us. And what about you, Jerry?

Jerry (33:25.172)
Excellent.

Jerry (33:29.405)
Excellent. I've got a couples reset workshop, a 90-minute Zoom workshop coming up on J January 9th. start of a new year for people who are kind of locked into a standoff with a bunch of resentment about emotional intimacy versus physical intimacy. And I'm gonna try and help people work on both at once. so we got good things happening along with

Holidays. Yep.

Kristy (34:00.106)
Yes. Yep. All right. All right. See you next time. Yeah, you too. Bye.

Jerry (34:02.509)
All right, I'll see you next time, Kristy. Thank you for the topic. See ya. Bye.