Guru Devin Chaulk with @ Properties

Announcer: 0:01

advisors Mortgage Group is proud to present in these real estate gurus hosted by Rick Ripma and Ian Arnold, the hard working mortgage guys, please contact Rick and Ian for all of your mortgage needs at HardWorkingMortgageGuys.com That's HardWorkingMortgageGuys.com Now, here's the hard working mortgage guys, Rick Ripma, me and Arnold.

Rick Ripma: 0:24

Everyone, before we get started, I just wanted to remind you the most up to date information on mortgages, and in these real estate market go to hard work in mortgage guys.com. That's hard working mortgage guys.com. I'm Rick Ripma, the hardworking mortgage guy and I've had the honor of working with over 5200 mortgage borrowers helping each one find their best mortgage option. As a certified mortgage planner, I know my team and I can guide you through the process and help you every step of the way.

Ian Arnold: 0:50

And I'm Ian Arnold part of Rick's hard working mortgage team. I've worked in the financial industry for over 15 years helping people purchase what they want, and helping them build their overall wealth and build their credit.

Rick Ripma: 1:02

And on the show today, we're very excited to be highlighting real estate guru Devin. Chaulk with at properties. That's right. Did I pronounce your pronounce your name? That is it. I was pretty sure it was but I wanted to make this close. Devin is obsessed with Indianapolis real estate. And that obsession has led him to become one of India's real estate gurus. Thanks for joining us. Yeah,

Devin Chaulk: 1:25

thank you very much for having me. Glad to be here.

Rick Ripma: 1:27

You appreciate it. And I want to one of the things we'd like to start with his let people know, you know, how can people contact you? If they have any questions on real estate?

Devin Chaulk: 1:39

Yeah, absolutely. Best way to contact me is probably via my phone number 317-203-9529. Or you can hit up our website. Let Devin help.com That's Devon d v. I n let Devin help.com. That's a

Rick Ripma: 1:57

it's a that's a really good one. Because it's easy to spell. It's easy to It's short. It's that's that's a good one. So we talked off air, but how did you get into real estate?

Devin Chaulk: 2:09

Yeah, that's a great question. So back in 2013, my wife and I were moving to Indianapolis from Chicago. And we wanted to buy a house. And, you know, it turns out that I just loved every bit of that process, you know, looking for houses on Zillow, touring houses on every weekend that we came down to visit trying to find that one special house in a week working with our mortgage broker and everything about it was just really fun and exciting. A realtor did a fantastic job. And I just thought like this is this is pretty cool. So I knew then that I wanted to do something with real estate eventually. But that was not at that time, my career. It took a series of events and stressors in my life to kind of make me take that plunge.

Rick Ripma: 3:00

It's amazing how so many people get led in different ways. Now. Since we talked off air, I kind of know but what were you doing before real

Devin Chaulk: 3:08

estate? Yeah, so um, I was a professional headbanger for a number of years playing drums in a metal band, which was great and fun and a good experience, but not good for building a family. Then I ended up going to seminary becoming a pastor. And turns out that just wasn't a great fit for me either. Which was a little bewildering will a little bit bewildering to me, because I had an undergraduate degree and 90 some odd credits of seminary work, but ended up in a sales position and enjoyed that for about five years. Before I just kind of realized that I needed more autonomy, needed to have more control over my schedule, and the kinds of activities that I was happy and comfortable doing to generate business and create value for people.

Ian Arnold: 3:58

So what would be one thing that helped you in your prior jobs that helps you help you become the realtor you are now?

Devin Chaulk: 4:07

I think it's I think my one of my superpowers is just being able to connect with people. And I think that's more of a secondary superpower. I think it stems from something primarily that's just like, actually caring about everybody that I meet, like having a genuine interest in other people and wanting to learn who they are, and how I can serve them. And that's been something that's true about me. Before I got into sales, you know, not really realizing that that would be something that would help me in an industry like real estate or other sales industries is actually caring about people learning where they are and seeing how I can come alongside them and serve them.

Rick Ripma: 4:54

I would guess that's why you went into seminary. Yeah, I mean, that that would be I would think most People who would do that are doing that because they care about people they want to. They want to they want to serve.

Devin Chaulk: 5:05

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's why the website is let Devin help.com, because it's really just about service and creating an excellent experience for people.

Rick Ripma: 5:14

Yeah. And you know, a lot of people can talk about that. But they don't actually do it, because they don't actually have that servant heart to have. Sure. And that, that that's something that really, I find that is really important, especially when you're leaving somebody in such a huge decision, such a big piece of their life, not just the financial part, right, we're talking. This is where you're gonna live, grow. Raise your family, it's important. Absolutely. And I'm sure you love doing it. I know you do. Because I read your bio.

Devin Chaulk: 5:45

I do. I do. I feel I feel immensely grateful.

Rick Ripma: 5:51

And it's, it's, it's interesting, too. I love a part of what I love about doing this as that to hear the stories. And that you were you were in a metal band. Yeah. And then and then you went to seminary? Yeah. You know, and how your life led you to real estate? Yeah. And it was you loved it.

Devin Chaulk: 6:11

Yeah, it kind of feels like every every job and career turn that I took prepare me for the next one and made me better for that current position than I would have been. Had I otherwise not gone through the weird path that I went through.

Ian Arnold: 6:28

So you ever think about going back on the pulpit and preaching and saying, Hey, look, Jesus says buy a house from Devin.

Devin Chaulk: 6:37

Right? Yeah, using my? Yeah, thankfully, no, no, it's really great to be a regular dude at church. And, and just not have anything important to say to anybody.

Rick Ripma: 6:51

Yes. You know, it's like any meeting, sometimes you're the leader, and sometimes you're not. And when you're not the leader, it takes all the pressure off just to sit and relax and absorb what's going on. Yeah, I think that can be can be important. So if somebody if somebody's out there, they're looking for a real estate agent. What what is it that they should shop for in an agent? What should they be looking for?

Devin Chaulk: 7:18

Well, I think the number one thing that people need is determining whether or not they can trust the person across the table from them. So I think people doing their due diligence, sitting down for a coffee, and really talk and ask lots of questions. Because at the end of the day, like you said, this is a really big decision with big consequences, positive or negative. And you need to make sure that you're sitting across the table from and somebody who's advocating on your behalf and negotiating for you with somebody that has high integrity, somebody you can trust.

Ian Arnold: 7:54

So if a first time homebuyer is listening to you talk right now, what would be one of those one or two of those questions that they should ask when they're talking to a realtor?

Devin Chaulk: 8:06

It's a good question. I think one of the questions I would ask, and this is a little bit sneaky, but I think it's for a good cause. So I think it's worth it. HASK ask the realtor how often they sell one of their listings to one of their buyers. And I asked that not because I think it's bad to do that. It's not. But the way somebody answers that question might give somebody an indication, or at least it might say, Okay, pull on that string. You know, if they say, I do it all the time, it's great, you know, and don't have any words of caution for doing that. That might be somebody who is more interested in closing deals, getting transactions done may be more interested in the money than serving clients. Maybe I've done some where I'm both Listing Agent and buyer's agent. But for me, if they give an answer, like sometimes that works out, I'm most concerned though, that my buyers find the perfect house for them. And I'm most concerned for my sellers that they find the perfect buyer for their house. An answer like that is going to show oh, this person doesn't care about the money. He doesn't see me as a commodity. He sees me as somebody to help.

Rick Ripma: 9:29

You know, it's, that's a great answer. I think it's something that most people never thought think about. And, you know, in my view, I don't have a problem with with the listing agent being the buyer's agent, right. If what you said if it's, it's the perfect buyer, so the seller gets the perfect buyer, the buyer gets the perfect house at all perfect. And you would know because you know the whole scenario at that point. Right? But also being having been around for quite some time. Um, that doesn't happen that often. So, like your your point is, is that you want to make sure they're showing you everything and that you're really getting the view of the market and they're listening to you. And they're helping you. Because Because my opinion of my job, real estate agents job is to make sure people understand what it is it's available, understand their choices, and understand some what the consequences of their choices. Yeah. And then they make the decision. Yeah, I don't make their decision on what mortgage to go when they make it.

Devin Chaulk: 10:37

Right. Yeah, the moment that you start trying to orchestrate things you show yourself to be out for yourself, and you're you're betraying, you know, the very thing you're supposed to be doing, which is helping somebody else.

Rick Ripma: 10:51

Right. And I think that, obviously, it's nice to get paid. We all need money. There's nothing wrong with that. Everybody needs to make a profit. Yeah, but that's not what we celebrate. Really. Yeah. It's that closing a and talks about it that closing when that when that customer is the is as excited as can be like we had one, it was the first person in their family to buy a home. Wow. Okay. She was crying. Right with joy. Yeah. That's far more important than the money. That's powerful. Yes. And you know, you really changed. And if you think about what you just changed, not only did you change their lives, yeah, they're everybody in their family's lives have just changed any of their kids all that it changes everything. The point where you buy, it's why it has so much impact is because everybody you live around is now affected, and how you, your whole life is affected. Yep. I always wonder I don't know if you do this. If I hadn't bought where I bought them somewhere else. What would what would my life be like? What would my kids lives be like? Yeah,

Devin Chaulk: 11:57

absolutely. It's important. Yeah. has far reaching consequences. Yeah,

Rick Ripma: 12:01

sure. So you really have to think about it. And I think that's why you need a really strong agent who cares about you? Like I think you obviously do, I think people can hear that. Making sure that they listen, they understand. And they help you make sure that you're getting what you're what you're after. Sometimes you don't even truthfully, sometimes you don't even know what you want.

Devin Chaulk: 12:22

Right, right. That's true. And that's something you

Rick Ripma: 12:25

probably do really well as you read into what they're telling you and you're trying to, because I'm sure people come back, say I didn't even know I wanted that. But I'm, thank you so much for helping me that.

Devin Chaulk: 12:34

Yeah, I think that people don't realize that this is a consultative business, you have to ask good questions and dig deep. Ask about motivations, and try and find those core motivations for your potential clients to figure out what they're actually trying to do. But then why they're trying to do it. Because like you said, sometimes people don't know what they want. Until they're kind of guided down a path of self discovery. It's not, it's not about me, but they realize things about their lives or things that are important to them. And realizing oh, like, that affects my neighborhood choice that affects the features in my home that I want. And if I can help somebody to discover that, I've done my job.

Rick Ripma: 13:19

It's, it's so important, and I love it when I hear talk with somebody like you that really understands the importance of what they're doing, and how it affects people's lives. We are running up against a break so if somebody wanted to get a hold of you for any of their real estate needs, how would they do that?

Devin Chaulk: 13:34

Yeah, just give me a call shoot me a text 317-203-9529

Rick Ripma: 13:40

Perfect. What was that number again?

Devin Chaulk: 13:42

317-203-9529

Rick Ripma: 13:45

I can't I have bad memory and stuff like that.

Ian Arnold: 13:49

Well, that's okay. Right. Because downloaded the description will have his phone number, his email and his website so you can easily get contact with or even us at hardworking mortgage guys.com. Yeah.

Rick Ripma: 14:03

Well, we will see you after the break.

Unknown: 14:07

Advisors, mortgage brokers licensed by Indiana Department of Financial Institution equal housing opportunity. NMLS 33041, Rick Ripma and MLS 6649.

Rick Ripma: 14:15

Hi, I'm Rick Ripma. With the hard work and mortgage guys and advisors Mortgage Group, where we believe delivering the best mortgage for you is why we exist and it's how we all succeed.

Unknown: 14:24

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Ian Arnold: 14:29

mortgage guys, we believe in custom tailored loans, not the one size fits all

Unknown: 14:33

approach. We believe in always presenting you with all your options. So you get the loan you want the way you want it. We believe in continually monitoring the rules, rates and market trends. So you don't have to we believe in working hard to meet your closing date so that your entire plan isn't upended. We believe in offering the same quick online process that the bookstore mortgage companies brag about whether you're refinancing or buying your first home,

Rick Ripma: 14:58

we believe there is the best mortgage for you and we believe we are the team to deliver it find us online at hardworking mortgage guys.com.

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Brought to you by advisors Mortgage Group, where we believe the more you know about financing a home, the less stressful buying and refinancing will be.

Rick Ripma: 15:24

Welcome back, and thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. We're gonna go to Ian. Yeah. Well,

Unknown: 15:28

let's get it into the question of the week. Now it's time for questions with the gurus.

Ian Arnold: 15:39

Question that week is sponsored by advisors Mortgage Group where we fit your mortgage to fit your needs. Contact us today to get your free mortgage plan. So here's the hardest question we'll ask. Oh, boy. What was your first car?

Devin Chaulk: 15:52

My first car was a Ford Taurus. What year was it? 87? Maybe? No, I think I ended up with a Mercury Sable later, which was the same car. I did it twice.

Rick Ripma: 16:11

But they were great cars for the money. Yeah, they did the job. Yeah. We I asked you. And if anybody sees the video, they'll realize I'm a car guy and as a car guy, so I had asked you, you know, if you weren't you said Not really. So you just wanted a good solid form of transportation. I'm guessing that I

Devin Chaulk: 16:29

was I was pretty young. Yeah, I just wanted something that I could afford. That would get me from point A to point B, and it did the trick.

Rick Ripma: 16:35

Those are that's what those cars were they were great point A to point B cars. i My son had one his first car my oldest son, that's what we bought him until the school bus hit him and totaled it. No fun. No, it wasn't good at all. So what are you most excited about? In the future? As far as you know, the real estate career over your life? What?

Devin Chaulk: 16:59

Yeah, I mean, I think that something that excites me, I've got a few things. One thing I'm really excited about trying to help other agents do well. I'm trying to create what I call a sales organization with the sole where we try to love every person that we talk to whether they are a potential client, a current client, a vendor, we want it to be apparent that we care about them. But anyway, some one of my mantras for this year is to contribute to the success of others. So I want to take whatever good thing is happening in my life and in my business, and try to translate that into somebody else finding success, maybe in the same way, maybe not. Whether that's an agent on my team, a lender, I work with a friend, whatever.

Rick Ripma: 18:05

I think that's incredible. It's funny how you said it contributed to the the success of others. And it's actually part of what we're trying to do is is the same thing we didn't, we didn't articulate it that way. That's a much better way to articulate it is that's kind of what we sat around and says, Okay, so what can we do? Because our markets changed so much, that there's a lot of real estate agents. That it's a it's, it's a shock right now, because they haven't been in the business long enough to see the changes that we go through. I've been in and around real estate for well over 30 years. Yeah, I've seen a lot of changes. I mean, you've probably seen multiple market changes since you've been in business, correct?

Devin Chaulk: 18:49

Yeah. And it's only been about four and a half years. But I have seen, you know, I saw what was more or less like a pretty healthy, mild seller's market when I got into it in 2018 2019. And then I've been through what we've all been through in the last two and a half years, almost three years of this crazy pandemic market that is finally starting to subside. And now I'm thinking we're going to kind of return I'm going to make a prediction, I think we're just going to return to the kind of market that we saw in 2018. That would be my prediction, you know, a mild seller's market, that's still a great market for buyers way better than it has been for the last two and a half years. But still a really strong market for sellers wanting to get value out of their home to move into the next place that they want to be.

Ian Arnold: 19:42

So you were talking about earlier about helping new real estate agents when they come in and basically molding them into a say a better salesperson than somebody just looking at their own pocket or looking after people in front. Yeah, so who Who helped you when you first got into like your mentor?

Devin Chaulk: 20:03

That's a great question. Um, so I'm with that properties, which was Platt collective before that, which was Nottingham real green Realty Group before that, and I knew Mark, Mark Nottingham from church. And I must have met with him three times before I pulled the trigger to become a realtor. Just asking him like, Should I do this. And he kept on giving me the same advice every time. Which was helpful, but frustrating, because it didn't help me until it was time for it to help me. He said, I'm sure you would be fine. You just have to be okay with four to six months without any income. And that bothered me because I wasn't motivated enough to make the change to live with the risk of going four to six months without any income. But when I finally became discontent, enough, those words became helpful. It because it gave me a roadmap was like, Okay, I've got 46 months runway, if I can get something going in that amount of time, I think I think I'll make it, you know, um, so mark, Nottingham was very instrumental in that he was just a faithful presence in my life telling me oh, yeah, you can do it, you can do it just just be fine with having enough savings to make it four to six months, and you'll make it.

Rick Ripma: 21:32

So what did you do in that four to six months? Like, what was your plan? I'm sure it wasn't okay. I'm gonna do this. I hope it works out. I'm right. Or there was more to it than

Devin Chaulk: 21:41

there was. So I, I called it my face to face initiative. And I called texted, emailed absolutely everybody I knew in a very short amount of time, and asked everybody if I could take them out for lunch, beer, coffee, anything. And I just let them know, I was like, this is part of my face to face initiative. I can look you up online, we could text. But that'll only take us so far in conversation. You know, say how you doing? You'll say I'm fine. I'll say I'm in real estate. Now you say, that's great. How are you? Oh, my kids are this, my kids are that great, cool. Catch you later. But when you're face to face with somebody, you get into, like, real stuff, right? stuff that matters. And if at that point, it was just about being a better friend to everybody I knew. And when I made it about that, good stuff happened. So I spent more time with all the people that matter to me. And in doing that, I was able to touch base with a lot of people and some of those people had needs some of those people who they knew people who had needs. And I've ever since then I've just continued to do that I grab lunch two to five times a week now with my friends, just because and I don't ask them for referrals. I don't ask them for anything. I just asked for their friendship. So anybody who's trying to get into the business, just spend quality time with the people that matter to you. Let them know that you're a realtor, and that you can help them or anybody they know. And your friends care about you. They'll give you business. Least that's been my experience.

Ian Arnold: 23:40

So I mean, one thing that really and anytime you have younger kids and you have younger kids, just like I do, is what you find out is once you got married once you start having kids, a lot of the friends don't mean as in a bad way to go off to the wayside because you're so busy. So this is actually something nice, especially like if you're a young realtor getting into the business. Yeah, this that is, look, you can still meet with your friend, because your kids might be in school wife might be at work or taking care of the other kids. So you don't you're not missing a lot of time. Yep. And you make it part of the job, which is phenomenal.

Devin Chaulk: 24:16

Yeah, yeah, it's a daytime thing. Everybody's got to eat lunch. Might as well eat it with me.

Ian Arnold: 24:21

All right, when can we do it? Yeah.

Rick Ripma: 24:23

It is very much about making the time to do it. We make excuses of why we don't get with our friends. We make excuses of why we don't hang out with our family. Yeah, but the reality is, like you said, we all have to have lunch. Yeah. So you just go to lunch? And like use it. It's you go to lunch, your real estate agent. They know your real estate agent. Yeah. And if you if all you did was talk about real estate in those meetings, and I related to somebody that does MLM or multi level marketing. Yeah, you know, there is a point where it's like I never want to see them again. They right Leave me alone, right? That's not what you do. Right? Because you care about them. All you got to do is be with them hang out with them, they know you're in real estate. Yeah. And you can still say, Hey, if you know of anybody, I'm here, just remember, I do real estate. That's not pushy,

Devin Chaulk: 25:16

right? My favorite way to get around to that, too, is when I'm meeting with somebody before, as we're wrapping things up, we're getting ready to go, I'll ask them, Is there anything that I can do to help you in your business in your place of work and what you do? And inevitably, even if they have nothing for you to do, you know, oftentimes, it's just about asking, and then they're gonna ask you, oh, gosh, well, what can I do for you? You can let me know, and connect me with anybody who's thinking about buying or selling this year, that would be tremendous. And they've asked you, instead of you trying to ask them for business, and the beauty of that, too, is that if they give you a real answer for something that you can do for them, and you go on and do that for them, that's just sowing great seeds, you know, for your own business, but also doing good for somebody else.

Rick Ripma: 26:12

Yeah. And that's, I think you do that, because you are focused on others, it's very obvious that that your focus is others. And it's, it's taken, I didn't get there at your age. Okay, it's taken me a long time. And now I just, you and I talked about all the time, it's like, I'm just gonna give and some, you know, we're going to help people, that's what we're going to do. If we get business from it, that would be great. If we don't get business from it. We're still going to, that's just what we're going to do. And I've learned, it may not even be from that person, you may help somebody out. And you just help them out because you want to help them out. Not because you're expecting anything. Yeah. And they never you never get anything back for that if you were going to look at it that way. But other places. It's just life works out that way. Yeah. Right.

Devin Chaulk: 27:04

I agree. What I've seen.

Rick Ripma: 27:07

So I think it's I think it's incredible. This is kind of a now it's it's probably answered it to a point but what key activity would you recommend a real estate realtor invest their time?

Announcer: 27:25

You're listening to India's real estate gurus with Rick Ripma and Ian Arnold. To hear the conclusion of this interview, go to hardworking mortgage guys.com and hit the podcast tab. Brent NMLS number 33041. Recruitment NMLS. Number 664589. Ian Arnold's NMLS number is 1995469 equal housing opportunity? Some restrictions apply?

Unknown: 27:52

Well, first off, thank you for joining us, Danielle. I appreciate it. And I just was curious, how did you come to find out about Rick Ripma and advisors mortgage, oh, I was looking for a mortgage for myself for a brand new home that I was building. And I wasn't sure the direction to go, I didn't have anybody in mind. So I kind of just spoke to whoever I could speak to, I got their number. And everything seemed to be exactly what I was looking for. So I went with them. The thing I liked the most about Rick and his advisors mortgage is that I could go and upload things online. And I didn't have to always be on the phone with them or sending them documents or trying to look for certain things that I needed to get the process going. Which was really great for me, I had a processor named Mark Coleman, who really helped me out in making sure I had everything I needed. Because I I didn't know the first thing about having a mortgage. So it was awesome to have so much help. I think probably what I've benefited from the most is really just the understanding that sometimes I would get busy. And maybe I forgot to upload a document or I forgot to do a certain part of the process in a timely manner. And they would get right back with me and it wasn't like a hey, we really need this right now. It was always Hey, just wanted to make sure you still remember that we need this. Boy, you don't get that too much. In this day and age, it seems like most people are either, you know, very demanding of something they need from you and they need it right now. And, and I agree I've seen that in Rick's attitude with us over over the last 10 years that he's very patient but also helpful to get the right things he needs. So exactly. In conclusion is Rick Ripma and advisors mortgage somebody that you would use in the future and or tell your friends and family about. Absolutely. And I just want to thank them for all the effort they put in to help me find my dream home.

Announcer: 29:43

Ranch NMLS number 33041 Recruitment NMLS number 664589 equal housing opportunity. Some restrictions apply.

Rick Ripma: 29:49

I'm Rick Ripma You can go to hard working mortgage guys.com What key activity would you recommend a real estate real tour invest their time in?

Devin Chaulk: 29:59

Yeah, so But certainly, as already kind of discussed, like really invest in your network in your sphere, the people that matter to you. But then it's easy for me to say this. My background is phone sales. So if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, right? So I solve almost every business problem with picking up the phone and making calls. I would encourage people to who maybe even if they've had no experience on the phone, reaching out and making calls, calling expired listings, calling for sale by owners, but get into conversation with homeowners who are who are trying to sell their house. Of course, not homeowners that their home is active on the market. But otherwise, knock on doors, do uncomfortable things. If you commit yourself to doing uncomfortable things for a long time. It will you'll get better at it. And you'll you'll yield results.

Rick Ripma: 31:12

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. It is what we do. And we are saying is if the phone's not ringing, pick it up.

Devin Chaulk: 31:20

Yeah. You know, I made 154 calls before I came here today.

Ian Arnold: 31:25

Yeah, that's it. That's it. Sorry, done. 200.

Devin Chaulk: 31:29

I know I ate lunch. I ate lunch instead of making calls.

Rick Ripma: 31:33

Well, that's what you have to do. And it's actually fun to do if you do it, because you get to meet people and talk to people and get to know people. And it's, I mean, your life's better. Because I agree. Now we're running up against our break. So how would somebody get our break? We're switching over to the to the podcast, but how would somebody get a hold of you? If they were interested in anything? Real Estate?

Devin Chaulk: 31:52

Yeah, I would love to hear from you. You can give me a call or shoot me a text at 31720395293172039529.

Rick Ripma: 32:04

And if you need to get a hold of ESRI, it's HardWorkingMortgageGuys.com. That's HardWorkingMortgageGuys.com. And since we are running out of time, you know, we hope to see you on the podcast side.

Ian Arnold: 32:15

All right. Hey, welcome back. And if you were on the radio, this is the right so you start in the right spot. So we're going through everything and talking with him. So here's a here's a really good one. What is your most memorable deal? Oh, look, he stumped. Yeah, really.

Devin Chaulk: 32:38

It's, you know, what I think makes it difficult. You know, I haven't, I don't do the most you know, but the ones I do are very memorable and important to me. One that comes to mind was actually a for sale by owner sign was up, I called. And we had many conversations, some colorful, you know, where they did not want anything to do with me. But when you when you persist and show yourself to be determined and hardworking, that translates to some people, they were trying to sell it on their own. All they were getting were investors, and I kept on telling this person, if you let me list it for you, I promise you will net more money than what you're getting offered. Right now. I promise. She finally let me list her house. And we ended up selling it in just a couple of days. And she ended up netting a lot more money, you know, even after paying commissions and all of that stuff. And there was just a moment at the closing table, you know, connecting with that client where, you know, she looked at that total, you know, proceeds and she just kind of smiled and looked at me. And that was like, okay, like, this was good. Like, what I do matters. You know, sometimes we can get in the nitty gritty and have difficult days and have deals fall through and have people upset with us, warranted or not. It's really good to have those reminders that like what we do is important, it's valuable. It changes lives helps people

Ian Arnold: 34:22

not to just mention that. So, here's that's the difference between having a realtor and not. I mean, there's a difference. And we've talked about this several times is when you only go through three or four times you buy or sell your home. That's very miniscule, compared to a real estate agent, especially a top agent like you a guru where you've seen hundreds and 1000s of deals so you understand when you're walking through a property. You know what you're looking for. You're no, no, there might be a little surprise later on or somewhere but over Raul, you can give them the correct guidance that they need and hopefully, and what you were talking about when she looked at the how much money she was bringing home, that's your overall wealth, right? So that's what you can help somebody help grow their overall wealth later on and more than selling on their own.

Devin Chaulk: 35:19

Yeah. And I think something that I like to tell people who are considering selling their home on their own, or they already are, I don't discourage people. You know, I tell them, it's just like any DIY project. With determination time, you know, and a little bit of, you know, elbow grease, it can be done, you can replace your counters, you can do your own cabinets, you can refinish your floors, you can sell your own house. So I always try to, rather than be argumentative with people, I try to empower them. And I'll often ask them, Is there anything that I can do to help you? You know? Can I give you the contact info for my photographer? And make sure that they give you a good deal? Or would you like me to go over a purchase agreement with you? Can I come preview your house, and we can go over a purchase agreement together? And you can ask me any questions about what you see in it, instead of me coming over and saying, Can I bring a listing contract? Or can I bring you a purchase agreement? Because you might get one of these? And you might have questions. When I come from a place of adding value, it disarms people. And it gives me an opportunity to hopefully serve them down the line. And even if I don't, I've done a good thing. And I can live with that.

Rick Ripma: 36:37

Right? Yeah. To your point on the for sale by owners. One thing I want, I think I know the answer, but I want to ask, Why does somebody choose to do it for sale by owner in their mind? Why is that the way they should go?

Devin Chaulk: 36:52

Yeah, people are often trying to save money. And that is a that's a legitimate concern. And that makes sense. What people fail to realize is that when somebody sees a for sale by owner, the general consumer knows, oh, that person is saving money on commission, I'm gonna offer them less. They think it's on sale. Just like finding a, you know, a high end watch, not at the department store. But at a garage sale, even if it's still in the package, what do people expect, they're gonna get a discount, they don't have to pay full price. So people often go with that kind of approach to for sale by owners, and they unwittingly undercut themselves.

Rick Ripma: 37:43

I had this was years back, but my brother in law and sister in law, they're in Michigan, they have this very nice house, they're building the beautiful home, they wanted to stay in the home that they were in until the other house was about done, the house is getting ready to be done. And they just they talked to me and I said, you need to get a top real estate agent you need to get they decide they're gonna put it on their own. Right. So they have on the market. And they sell it. And they and I think they sold it for this was a years and years ago, like $225,000. And the the inspection, the inspection came, the person who bought it wanted all this work done, they weren't willing to do it. So it went out and now their house is about done and ready to move they need to move in. He says What should we do? I said the same thing. I told you the first time you get a real estate agent who's a top agent, that remember they sold the house for 225. Right? Yeah. The top agent came in, looked at it. They listed it for 279. Wow. Okay, they sold it for 275. They didn't have an inspection issues. Wow. They made 40 to $50,000. Net profit by using a real estate agent. Yeah. And that's what I tell everybody. Like it's not it appears less expensive, right? To in some ways, but it's not if you get if you get a top agent, somebody who knows what they're doing somebody who's there to walk you through it and help you, you save time, and you make more money, and it's less stressful. And they they have all that they have the title company they use they have they have the contractors if you need somebody they have the photographer if you need somebody not that you're willing to share but I personally would always hire it's better. Yeah. And I really encourage people when I when I when I talk to somebody for sale by owner because I'll get people who were like, Yeah, we're gonna sell our house on my own. I'm gonna need a mortgage. Well, let's get you with a real estate agent. Let's get you with somebody who knows what they're doing because I would be shocked if they ever made more money selling it

Devin Chaulk: 39:51

on their own. Right, right.

Rick Ripma: 39:54

Is that sound I mean, have you seen that kind of same thing? It sounds I know you have you already told the story so you didn't days Same thing. Yeah, person, that extra money they made was probably a big help in their

Devin Chaulk: 40:05

lives. Yeah, no absolutely once and set them up for for where they were headed next.

Rick Ripma: 40:10

And that investor, most likely, I'm guessing I know they do have several ways, but what they do is they buy it and they buy the expensively, they might do a little work to it, and then they sell it or they rent it out. But they're the ones that make all that profit that that person was willing to give up if they were willing to sell it to them.

Devin Chaulk: 40:25

And the funny thing, the ironic thing is, you know, when people how can I say this without saying something negative about anybody, because I don't think that you need to do that in order to, to, to look good, not to make other people look bad. You'll notice, you know, when, when a investor comes in and buys a house, they fix it up? What do they do when they sell it? They use a realtor. So it is rather interesting, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with what that investor is doing. But even they know that they ought to be using a real estate agent if they want to maximize their profits. And that is a business person, a pure business person, no emotional attachment. It's all about a business decision. And they make the investment in a realtor as well.

Ian Arnold: 41:20

All right, so what are your business goals for this year?

Devin Chaulk: 41:23

Yeah, so we've, we've grown our team, there are five agents, in addition to myself, and this year, we want to we want to serve 126 clients this year, there'll be a big increase over last year, we, the, the agents on my team are less seasoned. And so we've been filling up a pipeline for the last several months. And so this year is going to be a really big year, I think. And we word it very carefully. When we put together our big goal, you know, it's to serve 126 clients, resulting in a certain amount of dollars, we put the dollars at the end, we open up with service, the number of people we want to serve, and then dollars are at the end because it's the result of doing good work for lots of people,

Ian Arnold: 42:21

if you take care of the people is what you take care of the people, the money will come you just take care of the people. Yep.

Devin Chaulk: 42:29

After I, after I closed my first few deals, had a pipeline that looked pretty good. And started replenishing my savings from when I quit my job and my wife was pregnant with our fourth kid, you know, like all of this stuff. Once we kind of got through all of that, I was determined not to worry about the dollars, you know, I was worried about the dollars at first because I needed to feed my family and had to survive, you know. But after that it was really just about how can I? How can I expand my impact?

Rick Ripma: 43:12

And all but even then, even then, when it was you needed the money to survive, even then I'm guessing, given the choice of doing something correctly, or making money. Knowing what I know about you, listening to you, I guarantee you, you always chose taking care of the person over the money.

Devin Chaulk: 43:35

Yeah, you do right by the client all the time, even if it costs you money,

Rick Ripma: 43:39

right. And it didn't matter whether you were you were struggling at the time, even though it was a focus. You're you're somebody that I pick up on is always focused on the other person and always is worried about the other person, not that you don't have needs to, but you know that those are secondary, because taking care of others will get you what you need. So you don't have to worry about it. It's true. What are two resources that make you think, man, if it weren't for these two things, I wouldn't be here today.

Ian Arnold: 44:10

Your wife, every one of them,

Devin Chaulk: 44:12

ya know, there's no question about it. My wife, she, we made the decision very early on for her that, that we would have her stay home and take care of manage our household, essentially manage me and our kids. And it wasn't a good financial decision. I was pastoring I was making $24,200 a year as a pastor of a small church and my wife got pregnant, and we decided she would come home and stay home and that we would figure out a way to make it work. And she has been the reason that we have been able to make it work. She empowered me enabled me to make the decision to go into real estate when she He was pregnant with our fourth kid. There was no other income in our house but myself. And she has stuck with me through thick and thin. There's no question. Another one for me, this is a little bit more like, you know, back office, but I have a, I have a real estate business coach, who I meet with month weekly, to talk about my business to make sure that I'm providing great service and sustainable service for people. So I can continue to grow and do more good work.

Ian Arnold: 45:36

So this is we were talking off the radio, and we always ever all of us, even real estate agents, even smart guys do mortgages. We always talk about it's funny people we run into that you just never thought about. Yeah. So you guys were talking briefly about how you were in a band and everything and you're a drummer, right? Well, Rick's it was it your nephew? was a drummer. And lo and behold, guess who knows each other? Yeah. never even met before. And but yet, it's just funny how?

Devin Chaulk: 46:14

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, as drummers, we all know each other. And so we meet a yearly at a convention and exchange stories.

Rick Ripma: 46:24

It's amazing to me, and I get the sense that you are actually a lot like my nephew. The one thing that I always really admired about my nephew, is his caring of other people. He's always been that way, even as a little even as a little kid, his sister was always caring about him. And, and he's, he's just a, he's just one of those great people, you know, people you want to hang out with and be around, because he's just not what I would expect. Like if somebody says, you know, you tell some of their drummers like, oh, a drummer, right. And drummers have that kind of an image. But he's not like, you're not like that. And actually, I watch now I watch music in a whole different way. And I think, man, the drummer, be fun to be a drummer. Yeah, I have no talent. I could never do it. But it wouldn't be fun if I did. drummers have the best. USA that just doesn't sound like it was something. The I was one other question. I know. I have to formulate the question. Because I, you're you're focused on, you know, we focus quite a bit on on your customers, but also your team. But I know you really want to help younger agents. And one of the things we really want to do, this was not an original goal of the show, it was just something that we found, because truthfully, I underestimated the, the real estate agent wanting to help others because I've been in sales my whole life. And the vast majority of people I have been in sales with never wanted to help another salesperson because they had a lack mentality, right. But every agent that we talked to, they're not like that, right? The ones that we the Guru's aren't like that. They all have this attitude of we want to give back we want to help. Yeah. So we talked about, you know, what you would you would do but one of the one of the things you you said you made 150 Something calls before this, okay. That's a lot of calls. There are people real estate agents, new new agents out there, who, how they gotta be thinking, How in the world can I do that? Or even if they aren't a new agent, but they're struggling right now? Yeah, the way to get out of it, just like we said, you know, if the phone's not ringing, pick it up. Yeah. How do you do that? How do you get to that point, and that you're able to just make those calls? What is your process?

Devin Chaulk: 48:54

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's born out of a mindset. I tell this to my agents. Every week, what we do is important. What we do matters, and it's valuable. never apologize to anybody you've ever talked to, for calling them because if if they don't need your help, that's okay, and you haven't harmed them. But if they do need your help, they're going to be glad you called. Now, the thing I also say is, somebody out there needs your help. We need to go out and find them. So we don't see ourselves as superheroes. But we recognize that in a market this size. At all times, there's somebody's thinking about buying or selling their home, finding a new home, whatever it is, we just need to find them. They don't all have a realtor, you know. So you really have to first recognize that what you do is important and valuable. And if you and go out thinking like, I'm going to find somebody to help today, not somebody to sell today, you know, but somebody to help. It makes it a lot easier to pick up the phone and make those calls and go through people who are going to yell or hang up and things like that. Because eventually you're going to find somebody who's like, I am so glad you called. I had a really bad experience with my last realtor. And I don't know who to trust now. And now you're having a conversation with somebody who really needs your help that you are, hopefully, uniquely equipped to help.

Rick Ripma: 50:36

What? What is the very worst thing that has ever happened to you? When you made a call the worst thing?

Devin Chaulk: 50:44

Yeah, I mean, the worst. Just somebody yells and says, Don't ever call me again. Click.

Rick Ripma: 50:50

That was my point. That's why I asked. Yeah, that's the worst thing that happens when you call. The worst thing that happens is either somebody hangs up on you, and they're mad at you. But they're not mad at you. They're just they don't know who you are, right? Or we will get somebody who's a little rude. Right? Well, well, well, Rick,

Ian Arnold: 51:06

I caught you cry underneath your desk the other day.

Rick Ripma: 51:11

But the reality is, that's my that was really my point. I think people are scared. And the reality if you just do it, you'll find there's nothing to be scared of.

Devin Chaulk: 51:19

Well, my favorite thing to do when people are getting introduced to my team and to making phone calls, I have them shadow for five hours of sitting next to me making calls, hearing both ends of the conversation. And what they they see two things. One, they see me fall flat on my face and have terrible conversations do a bad job. And it makes them think, okay, like, I don't need to be embarrassed if I screw up a phone call. But then they'll also see some of my calls go extremely well, we'll set an appointment, they'll come with me to the listing consultation, we'll sign it, they want our help, and we'll put their house on the market and they go okay, so even though Devin had several really crummy conversations today, he had one really good one. I can have one really good conversation. Right. You know? So people find that empowering.

Rick Ripma: 52:15

Yeah, if you had even just three great conversations a week and got three listings a week, you'd probably be a pretty happy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you'd be helping lots of people and life would be good absolute for them in you. So it is it's extremely important. I just think it's extremely valuable. And I hope, you know, we can get this out to some agents that are struggling and new agents that realize it's it's a there's a process the way you got into the business and you were successful is the same way. You're still successful today. Yes, true. And I had an I interviewed an agent interview, we did a show with an agent out of California, for really the exact same reason. She came out a call call center. And then and then she worked with me as in the builders years ago. I've known her for 20, almost 30 years. Same thing. She does the same thing today. She did that. Yeah, she's honed it. She's gotten better. Yeah, but it's just making her team does the same thing your team does. They may call. That's how you do it. Yeah, it's it's not rocket science. Right. But it takes work ethic. Yep. And it takes getting over your fears and just not even getting over him. staring him in the face and going ahead and doing it. Yep. Real. It's true. Yeah. Well, we are went over time, but that's okay. Because that was very interesting. And we appreciate it. So if somebody wanted to get a hold of you, what's the best number?

Devin Chaulk: 53:39

Yeah, give me a call. shoot me a text 31720395293172039529.

Rick Ripma: 53:49

And that's Devin Kok at properties. Seven

Devin Chaulk: 53:52

chop, chop. Yeah.

Ian Arnold: 53:54

You said it the first time, right.

Rick Ripma: 53:57

It's certainly written this jaw.

Devin Chaulk: 53:59

Yeah, that's funny. Yeah. So yeah, it's Devon, with the Devon chalk home team with that properties.

Rick Ripma: 54:05

And that's a great last name for I mean, it's easy. It's easy to remember, it's not easy to say for me, but it's easy to remember. Yeah, there you go chalk.

Ian Arnold: 54:12

And then if you want to get ahold of Ricker, I go to HardWorkingMortgageGuys.com And that is HardWorkingMortgageGuys.com. And if you missed any of the contact, it'll be in the description. And then also a reminder, if you know any friends, family or co workers that are looking to buy, sell, or refinance, please get in contact with any of us, and we'll get more than happy to help you guys.

Rick Ripma: 54:34

Thanks so much, and have a great day.