Your Podcast Isn't Bringing In Clients. Here's How One Founder Turned Hers Into a Networking Engine Instead

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I couldn't even tell you what my download numbers are. That doesn't matter to me. At at six months, when you're more than $20,000 in, you do have to make a decision on can I continue to invest this type of money?

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Were those connections guests or were they listeners? Where did they come from exactly? Aubrey Fitzlov. She spent 20 years running an insurance agency in the Carolinas. Last year she launched a podcast and put over 20 grand into turning it into a lead funnel. It did pay off the way she planned, but she kept the show going anyway. And today she gets into why.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

I didn't ever want them to feel like I was interviewing them only for the purpose of gaining their insurance business. If somebody's celebrating a particularly big win or a big milestone within their own business, that seems like a really relevant reason to whether we republish the episode or treat it a lot like I'm looking to make a new friend and not this is some sort of connection that's gonna benefit me in this way. You completely surprised me at the beginning prior to us starting the recording by asking me about something that was on my thread.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

So, Aubrey, you run an insurance agency. Why put your time into interviewing business owners on a podcast rather than just continuing to show insurance?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

A couple reasons. First, I've kind of always wanted to have a podcast. And so when we launched, and it is me and my work team that um run our podcasts, when we launched our podcast last year, um, we were working with a marketing agency who um pitched that as an idea, as a way for us to create credibility in spaces that we could show up in in person, and that aligned with a goal that I already had. And also I have been very passionate about leadership and personal development for years. And this gave me an opportunity to help showcase other business owners and their stories and also give back to people who might be coming up behind us, um, starting out in their own business leadership journey, because nobody who has been in business for more than 10 years got there without some sort of mentorship or leadership along the way. So it's a little bit of a give back, mostly a passion project. And it's also a way for us to bring awareness of our agency and our expertise to people that we might not otherwise have the opportunity to meet in person.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Okay. So it's giving back, it's a passion project and a way of marketing the agency as well. You always wanted to make a how how is that how is it panning out so far? Like you were enjoying the podcasting? Is it actually getting you more business potentially? How how is that going so far?

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Well, I am enjoying it. Uh we hit the ground running hard. We were working with a marketing firm that lined up a lot of guests for us very quickly uh last summer when we launched it. So a lot of even the content that's being um published right now was recorded a year ago. Um, that was a little overwhelming, particularly as we went into quarter four and had to go be insurance agents. You know, when you sell health and Medicare, you have to sell during the enrollment periods. Um the piece of things of the marketing and it directly translating into insurance sales. Um, I wouldn't say that's a direct line at this point, but I I definitely do know that we are bumping into other business owners locally that are telling us that they've heard our podcast. So that's cool. And I do think it um gives credibility to myself and my team as we speak on specific subjects around business leadership. Um and that was more important to me than it directly make directly bring new clients into the agency, although that doesn't hurt my feelings either. Any any way you can bring new clients in and it's warm as opposed to cold is is a win in my book.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

So you're seeing you're seeing results in that people are at least running into the podcast and mentioning that is Yeah, more in a local sense than I would say like I I couldn't even tell you what my download numbers are.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

That doesn't matter to me. Getting people's stories out does matter. So there is there is some piece of that. Um, and and learning how to market the podcast is different from learning how to market an insurance agency. So I'm learning that as I go.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Fair enough. Um, I'm curious, how did the marketing agency kind of frame this podcast idea? I mean, you already wanted to make a podcast, but what did they say that made you be like, oh yeah, you know what? That's a good idea. And is it is it turning out how you planned?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

Uh well they pitched it as a as a funnel, a way to start building a funnel for um era, again, areas that we couldn't geographically physically be present in. Um as we've we are based in Columbia, South Carolina, and um as we have expanded into North Carolina, there's aspects like if I if I went to the upper northeast corner of North Carolina right now, that would be a six-hour drive. So I can't go be community relationship uh-based marketing the way that I can right here in Columbia. I can show up at a networking event, I can show up at a chamber event. Um, so they pitched it as a way to create a marketing funnel in um in those areas where we couldn't physically be present while still growing relationships with people. Um, and that didn't pan out the way that we thought it would for the number of dollars we were spending. It has brought business in, as I said, and it has definitely grown credibility and it's allowed us to make uh connections with people that hopefully as we continue to nurture those relationships will bring sales into the agency. Um but after working with that agent at that marketing firm for about six months, uh we we had to make the hard decision to let them go because for the amount of money we were spending, we we weren't seeing the the we weren't seeing the results that we needed. That said, we've continued to publish our podcast and we still we are recording. Um, we're just not doing hardcore, like let's try to put 40 podcast recording appointments up in a 60-day period. Uh, there's not a need to do that either because we have enough content bank to uh to take our time with it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

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SPEAKER_00 8:18

And I and maybe, maybe partly also because I I'm not really super um if you and I got at the got to the end of this call and you have that offline time, I'm not I'm not gonna say, okay, so can I review your benefits? That's I don't think that's I don't think that's the way to do it. I think it takes a little longer to nurture. So um that's where we've stayed in touch with our guests and and tried to do what we can to promote their businesses where it stays where it's uh appropriate, um, with the idea that you you can you can build those relationships, but not as quickly as it would have need to have come in to to keep that in that marketing firm engaged with us.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Understood. Now you mentioned that it was to reach areas outside of local. However, I know that at some point you guys rebranded to be more local. Is that is that right? Like the Carolinas?

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yes, yes and no. Um I I because I would like to um raise awareness of the podcast. And as I said, I'm learning how to market that now as I go. Now that now that I have plenty of content, now it's time to like like work out okay, how do I get ears on that content, right? Um, so I have started uh investing time in learning how to promote the podcast. So the rebrand had more to do with the fact that we had this previous uh podcast name that was a clever play on words from the agency name, but it didn't really really tell you what our podcast was about, which is interviewing and showcasing stories from Carolina business leaders and entrepreneurs. So the rebrand was to get more clear on discoverability. And if you came across us on Spotify or Apple, that you would know at my Carolina Business Leadership show. I I think you have a pretty good idea, or I hope you have a pretty good idea of what the subject of our podcast is. Uh, real business lifetime lessons, not really so much, even though it had the name Lifetime in it, which aligned with our company name. So um learning learning some of those best practices for the sake of growing a podcast and not for the sake of having a podcast as a marketing piece.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

How has that rebrand worked out so far?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Um, I mean, I get better feedback from the people that I do know are listening to the podcast or um like our local chamber leadership when they found out that we had a podcast and started promoting it, like I think it better aligns with what the purpose of the podcast is. Because for me, it is more of a passion project at this point than it is a marketing piece for my other for my full-time business. Okay. But that rebrand is still relatively recent. So again, we're learning as we go.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Gotcha. So you were saying that the return on investment from the marketing agency wasn't quite there, but you also kind of mentioned that you did get some business from the podcast recently. I mean, or at some point, sure. Can you give us an example of how that happened?

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Well, I do think that we did make some good connections in a way that people happen to also align with, oh, I need somebody who knows more about benefits. Um, that that's a shot in the dark when you're putting it out there to go, I just want to talk to business owners. That you they may or may not have have a problem that you can solve. So um we were able to uh connect with people who definitely had the type of problem that we could solve. I was also able to connect with some business owners that needed help with insurance, but not the type of insurance that I sell. So I was able to connect them with other brokers that I know around town. So there have definitely been some good business connections made. But working with that firm, um I was writing a check that involved a comma every month. And there wasn't enough, uh, there just wasn't enough commissions returning into the agency to uh to offset what we were spending. And any type of marketing when you're in business, you you can't expect immediate results. You uh you have to look at it with a longer lens. But uh at six months, when you're more than $20,000 in, you do have to um you do have to eventually make a decision on can I continue to invest this type of money, expecting it's it expecting it to be a piece that grows my business. And in my situation, in our situation, that that just wasn't there. Um now I I do hope that we'll continue to be able to use it as a way to grow relationships, um, just maybe without as much uh upfront uh investment from a cost standpoint. Um that's always the challenge when you try a new marketing piece in business. Um and our and and the marketing firm that we worked with did a really good job of getting a lot of people in front of us, just maybe not the people that were ready to do business with somebody with us at this time. I I'm okay with that. I'm okay with learning from that. So um I wouldn't call it a failure. I would just say that there's there came a point where I said I have other marketing pieces I could put these dollars into and see more return on it.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Those connections that you built up, were those connections guests or were they listeners? Where did they come from exactly?

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Mostly guests, actually. Um, although I have had some local business owners that had organically found our podcast that reached out to us, but mostly guests. And that was the original idea was that we'd make relationships with guests that are decision makers and that um we'd be able to build those relationships into potentially them purchasing services from us. Um, and as I mentioned, some of them have chosen to do that, but um I didn't ever want them to feel like I was interviewing them only for the purpose of get gaining their insurance business. I I wanted to interview them because I wanted to share their story and what they learned along the way. If we happened to also do some insurance business, or I happen to buy that brand of wine now every time I see it in the store because she should, you know, I I I support her story, I think that's a happy byproduct, even if that wasn't the original purpose of the pod, or even if the original purpose of the project podcast was to try to find more clients. It didn't work out that way, but I still think there's been great business relationships that have come out of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

To me, it's sounding like moving forward. It's the podcast is becoming a passion project and just generally building kind of relationships with business owners, telling their stories, giving back. And it's more so that than trying to actually create business for yourself. But business would be nice as well. It's just not the focus.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I mean, I still have to eat, like so. I do have to find new clients. If something I'm pouring my time into yields that, that's that's a win-win-win. Um, but it's I I I wanted from the get-go to be able to find ways to help share business leadership lessons. Um, because I hit 20 years in my industry this year, and I definitely had mentorship from other insurance agency owners along the way. And if I can find a way to help somebody who's in a business completely unrelated to mine, but give them some wisdom, either whether it be from my mouth or from the mouth of one of the guests or both, um, and help them like stabilize their business or figure out that next growth piece of the things, I think that's good karma. Um, and that's something that I want to put into the world. And most of the people that I interviewed, everybody that I interviewed also was looking for a way for their story to help somebody else grow and learn from the other guests on the podcast. A couple of them said, Oh yeah, this episode a couple weeks ago, I I'm reading that book that that guest mentioned. So, you know, we're strengthening those of us that do have uh what however many decades of experience, in addition to hopefully giving back to somebody who's um earlier in their journey.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I'm curious as to if you have like any specific, maybe measurable goal around that in the podcast, like the connections and putting stuff out there to help people, or is it just like, okay, next person, another another episode down, and you just keep it moving?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Um, well, at the moment, because we're getting ready to go into quarter four again, um, we're really working on making sure that we're consistently um publishing what we do have. And then we'd like to go back and standardize all of the promotion of it, maybe re-promote people who um were agreed to guinea pig very early on when I didn't, when I didn't have a clue, even how to record it correctly. Sure, sure. Um, you know, um, so really use some of that, but also um, you know, start looking at across the 40, 50 episodes that I have recorded alone, um, looking for ways to maybe connect some people who might be able to benefit each other. An example that did happen very early on was um I spoke to a wine distributor who very much does boutique um small vineyards and was able to connect her a few weeks later with someone who owns a vineyard and is growing her distribution in the Carolinas. She's based out of out of Charlotte. I actually got to meet her in person because, as it happened, she was doing a tasting at my local wine club about three weeks after I recorded her podcast. So that was a really cool small world moment. Um, that was also one of those examples where we had the opportunity to um take a look at her family's health insurance and see if they had a if we had a better option out there for them or if they needed to stay put at with that. So we connected really well um with everything that has happened here recently with things uh regarding food safety. Um one of our very early-on episodes was with somebody who created a system, a very easy-to-use system for farmers to be able to track their their foods as they started to move through the process. And so this seems like a very relevant time to pull that episode back up, update the uh the editing, because that's only gotten better as we've had more time, and re-promote that episode, maybe even just republish it all together. Um, so while I don't have specific goals in mind, we are definitely brainstorming ways to um use those podcast guests stories that we've already published and and give them a little more exposure um before we start going and looking for brand new guests. Um, because you can you can get into that hamster wheel of going, okay, next person. But that's not how I grow my insurance agency either. I'm not always, I do need new clients to come in, but a lot of my existing business refers new business to us because we really believe in relationships over just sales.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

That is an interesting uh strategy going ahead and going back to episodes and repurposing them, maybe re uploading the same episode. So the focus being building those connections, building rapport. Is there specific people that you focus on when you do that, or is it just like that episode, that episode seems like we should probably repost it right now. Is there like a thought process behind which ones you decide you're gonna come back around to and put out?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Well, I was fortunate that most of the guests that I um recorded with also were willing to connect with me on LinkedIn. So if there if somebody's celebrating a particularly big win or a big milestone within their own business, that seems like a really relevant um reason to whether we republish the episode or just republicize the episode. Um I that seems like a really easy way to help re-promote somebody who was kind enough to help us get something going when we didn't know in what direction specifically it was going to go. Um, and also since I was fortunate enough enough to get to talk to a lot of hospitality and restaurant um leaders around North and South Carolina, some of these businesses I have not had the opportunity to actually visit myself yet. Um so if I have the opportunity to get up to Charlotte and go visit Birdsong Brewery in Charlotte, which was our very first guest, um that seems like a really good time to be like, hey, I'm really enjoying this beer right now. And also, you should go back and check out his podcast episode from July 2025. Um Because he took a big leap to be the first one. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, so I just more like, you know, the same way that you organically grow a relationship, well, sometimes you you have to go, oh, well, how can I promote this person a day? But sometimes it comes across your lap and go, oh, this is a great time for me to do something nice for them.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

I like that. So you have these people connected on LinkedIn and you're kind of keeping track of them and what they're got going on. They have this big event, and you're like, we did have the an episode about them specifically, and you kind of add to add to what's going on with them, which adds to that rapport, which you just build connections with. Maybe you meet up with them, especially since it's the the Carolinas. You focus specifically in that area, it's local. And thus it creates this synergy around the podcast and the connections you build and potential customers over time. That is I like that. I like that strategy.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Well, I I I I have to I have to go. I'm glad to hear that. It's what seems to feel fit and feel right for me. And like, you know, if it doesn't feel comfortable, not comfortable because you're getting ready to grow in something. That's a whole different type of discomfort. But comfort in that it seems true to how you would do something. Um, I feel like that's the way to go. Whether again, whether we're talking about podcasting or um when I'm getting ready to go do something new as an insurance agency owner or introduce a new agent to a group of people that I that I know. Um, you know, it has to it has to be in a way that people can tell when you're being fake.

unknown 23:37

You know.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

So it's gotta be in a way that's authentic for your personality.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

I think this is a good strategy for those who use podcasting specifically for networking rather than specifically for um bringing in business with different podcasters. They have different goals for their podcast, for their business. Sometimes it's just networking. And this is one of the first few that I've seen that's specifically networking and repeatable. Anyone listening to this right now could definitely take that and be like, okay, that's a good way that I can network, connect, and build rapport with people on my podcast. So that's why I really like this particular strategy.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

Sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

What exactly do you want people who are just listeners to take away from these episodes? Like what when they listen to an episode, what do you hope they get out of it?

SPEAKER_00 24:29

I mean, my ideal audience for the Carolina Business Leadership Show would be somebody who has started a business or aspires to start a business or has found themselves in a leadership role and they're really wanting to do better in that role. Um, I firmly believe that you can only lead at the highest level of personal development that you have. So somebody who's looking to grow in a leadership role, again, whether they're a business owner or a decision maker or just aspiring to start a business, um, they need to be looking to improve their develop their skills. Uh that is something that I learned when I took a leadership development course back in 2014 and realized, oh, well, if I want a team, I have to continue to be learning myself. So I'm hoping that not only would the individual guest story give you something actionable, not so different from you and I discussing that thread that you were asking me about, um, but also that they might find a resource. Um, if if the the book uh, I don't know, if uh 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership comes up across three or four episodes, uh, I I think there's a reason for that. And that might be a good time for somebody to go check out that particular book if that's something that they happen to tune in for those episodes. Um, and also I I would love for where it's appropriate if somebody can be a customer of one of my guests. I mean, they came on to promote their business. Maybe they came on because they wanted to share their story, but they're they're not gonna hurt if their businesses grow as a result of it. So I'd I'd love for that. But more so also, I want to start conversations around what people are learning and leadership. And that's part of the reason that I'm starting to invest time in learning how to really grow, how to promote a podcast, because that is a very different thing from me showing up consistently week after week at my business networking group or every single month at our chamber business. I know how to promote myself as an insurance agent's agent. I know how generally how to teach my team how to do that. I don't know how to promote a podcast well yet, but I can learn it. And I want to because I've always wanted to have a podcast. So it's great to put it out in the universe, but it would be nice to have more people listening to it too. And sometimes that's just getting over the fear of sounding silly and saying, Hey, did you know I have a podcast? Here, let me pull a Spotify code up right now when I'm sitting with somebody in person. That's a whore hurdle that I had to overcome, even after 20 years of being able to go, who does your health insurance? Do you need somebody to help you with that? Um, anytime you're doing something new, there's going to be hesitation because it's uncomfortable, because it's new. Uh, I'm learning how to do that as a podcast host.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

So you're generally for your listeners, you hope they get something actionable out of it. You hope they get some potential inspiration out of it so that they can continue to build their leadership skills because they only go as far as their own development. And you're currently also trying to learn how to promote your podcast because it's different than promoting your insurance agency, even though there's some parallels there. It's just another learning thing.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Yeah. I mean, podcast, podcast promotion and podcasting is essentially content creation in, you know, in one niche. I'm 45 years old. Social media came about after I graduated college. I'm on social media, but like putting myself out there as a content creator and how to do that from a business perspective, that is a skill set that I don't have at this time. I'm learning. Um, I it's as opposed to my 23-year-old technology coordinator out there who has all his life social media has been around. It's it's part of it's it's like breathing, you know, is to know, oh, we put this on Snapchat and that goes on Instagram, and I don't even understand TikTok, so we won't touch that.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Sure, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

You know, so you know, it's a skill set that I'm learning, but I'm having a good time doing it, and I'm having a good time making new connections as I do it in something that's completely outside of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

All right, then I got you. I gotcha, Albert. Um, final question. Sure. So in 60 seconds or less, to any founder podcasters listening who are who have their podcasts, but it's not generating any business, or you know what, it's not generating enough of rapport and connection and networking. What's one thing they should change going into the next episode to improve that?

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Well, if they're doing it to create um income or um create uh a funnel or fill their funnel, then I think you need to learn how to bring the conversation around specifically to what it is you want them to eventually become. Um for me specifically, that didn't feel natural and it didn't feel like the way I wanted to do it even after trying it. Um, but I would also say, you know, go look at somebody who is doing what you want to be doing and study their best practices. And, you know, if if they're willing to take on a mentee, that's great. Not everybody's willing to. Sometimes you've got to just sit down and really study their best practices. And as I've started learning since I've decided that, okay, now I'd like to start growing the audience of this podcast in the in the context of downloads and and discoverability. There's lots of great resources out there to start learning that. And they're not terribly expensive. You just have to be willing to invest the time and the money.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

What if that was a good answer? But what if it's specifically for not generating more clients or funnel business, but just networking? What's one thing you would want to tell them?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

I think being yourself is probably the way to do that. Like treat it a lot like I'm looking to make a new friend and not this is some sort of connection that's going to benefit me in this way. And that usually involves bringing value to them, um, not just not just talking about yourself. You know, take the time to get to know them, take the time to do a little research on them ahead of time. Um, prepare for that podcast interview in a way that is not just getting Chat GTP to generate your next list of questions. Um, just the same way you you completely surprised me at the beginning uh prior to us starting the recording by asking me about something that was on my threads account because that's so atypical. And my threads account isn't specifically tied to my podcast or to my business. Although I talk a little bit about both of them on them. It's my personal threads. I just go have fun. Sometimes I pop off, sometimes I'm talking about a Jeep, sometimes I'm talking about jujitsu. You surprise me in a way that was like, oh, we get to have a genuine connection here. That's cool. So find ways to do that. Most of us want to connect. We're not looking to sit behind a screen all the time.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

I like those answers. I like those answers. Thank you so much for your time, Auri. I appreciate you coming on.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

I appreciate you inviting me and uh let me know if there's anything I can do to promote y'all.

SPEAKER_01 32:07

This has been the Founder Podcast Lab. See you in the next episode.