Your Own Podcast Won't Get You Clients. Guesting Will. (How One Guest Spot Became a Multi Five Figure Client)

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I've probably been on honestly over a hundred podcasts in the last 18 months. Just that one relationship alone has been a multiple five-figure return on investment.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Know how much the podcast is actually driving for your business. Yeah. Yeah. So Derek Frederickson, founder of COO Solutions, dropping founders into the integrated team so their businesses run without them. He also hosted the COO Solutions podcast, which is exactly why I wanted him here.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

You're not gonna get clients from your podcast, but you may get client opportunities through having a podcast. I spent just as much time doing this as being a guest on other podcasts as I do with my own podcast. Practice on other people's podcasts, and then bring all those best suggestions and the lessons that you've learned into your own. When we wrapped up, stopped the recording, and he looked at me, and I'll never forget this. And he looked at me point blank, he's like, I need to hire you guys.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

So, Derek, when you started the COO Solution Podcast, what did you want it to do for your business? And is it actually achieving that?

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Sure. Yeah, so I started the CO Solutions Podcast about a year and a half ago. Uh, and it was a very deliberate strategic marketing decision that I made. Um, when I launched my company, the CO Solution, just back in 2024. So it's only been around for about two years. I knew that in order for the business to grow and scale, the number one thing in my experience that you have to focus on in the beginning is marketing. And for most business owners, there's a lot of things that business owners could do as it pertains to marketing. But at the end of the day, for what is their zone of genius and what they like to do and for their business, there's only a handful of things that they really should be doing. And for me, it felt like a natural fit to launch the podcast to share more of the message of what we do here at the COO solution. I had been doing marketing, email marketing, video, blog content, social media, ads, et cetera. And so for me, it was a logical progression to take a lot of that activity and content and supplement that through the podcast. So I had another outlet, another vehicle to share my message, to share my content, to bring on subject matter experts as guests that would help build my credibility and authority and kind of amplification in the marketplace. So it was a very deliberate choice to help with the marketing, first and foremost. But as I'm sure we'll get into in our conversation, it's had some other side benefits and advantages as well. But that was in the beginning. I was very strategic about yes, I want this to be another outlet for my marketing in terms of content, my message, and getting my voice out there.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Do you strongly felt like it was a natural progression from what you were already doing with all of your marketing? And you wanted to have another outlet to put your message for the business into your marketing. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What so you said it was a natural progression. However, what like what made you come to the decision? Okay, yeah, a podcast. And what this podcast were yeah, I gotta do that.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah, yeah. For me, so when I started, I was more focused on other elements of marketing that I knew were necessary, right? Sometimes I use this analogy when it comes to marketing or most things in business, but I think especially for marketing, what's necessary, what's a nice to have, and then what's in the middle is neither, meaning it's not necessary or it's not neither. So for me, in the beginning, a podcast would be a nice to have. I would love to have one, but it's not necessary. I was focused on the necessary, my website, my brand, generating leads, generating content through social media, building up my SEO, you know, finding, find, find, allowing people to find me. Once I had that running as a well-oiled machine, then I could free myself up to focus on the next phase of those marketing activities, which again for me was a logical progression for the marketing. However, one of the things that I do in my business in general, and one of the things we do with our clients is that we want to make sure that before we jump into a new initiative, a new idea, we want to make sure it's not going to create an exorbitant amount of work and headache and frustration. So I realized that I wanted to make sure I had the system in place, the process in place, but most importantly, the people in place. If I'm going to launch a podcast, as you know, there's a lot of things that need to happen in the podcast from A to Z, from guests to outreach to the production, to the editing, to the publication and everything else. So I didn't want to obviously own all of that on my own. I wanted to own what my zone of genius is, which is the speaking part, which is the connecting with others. And so before I launched the podcast, I wanted to make sure I had people that could handle the production, that could handle the editing, that could handle the social media, that could handle the updates to the website. So that way it didn't become this huge project that was taking more of my time, even though in the beginning, people sometimes get caught up, like, I'm gonna launch a podcast. And next thing you know, they're spending all hours of the week with all of those activities in support of the podcast. And so that was one element. And the other thing that for me, and maybe it's helpful for your audience, whether they have a podcast or thinking about it, um, I always say start with something manageable and then grow. Meaning, don't commit to something that I'm gonna do three episodes a week, they're gonna be all video, and then a month later you're burnt out and you're saying, Well, I'm only gonna do one a week, and then I'm gonna do one every other week. Now I'm gonna do one a month, then I'll do one when I have the time. And I don't really like doing video, so I'm gonna only do audio, right? And so get really clear on what you want the outcome to look like in an ideal state and set the bar here, knowing that you can always amp up. So for me, I did it every other week and I did audio only. And after about a few months, I realized in order for me to really move the needle, and again, this is just my preference, I like doing video. I feel comfortable on video. And so I said, I'm gonna switch from audio, go to video, and I'm still not at the point where I'm ready to amp it up to do every week an episode. I like the consistency and the frequency of doing it every other week, and that works for me. So I think for your audience, get really clear of what feels comfortable, what feels right, knowing that you can always go up, but it's not good if you end up going down, meaning like you scale down your production, you scale down your visibility, uh, especially in the field of marketing. You know, marketing breeds trust. And when you're consistent and frequent in your marketing, that creates the trust. And if you're not consistent and frequent, people don't know when is another episode coming out? Is the show still active? I was looking for a video and now I'm only getting an audio. So you can go here and take it up, but don't go all the way up here and then have to take it back, take it back down.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

So making sure you build a system around it to begin with, and then don't overwhelm yourself. Start smaller where you feel like you can manage it, and you can always go up from there is what you were saying. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

When you said that you pretty much from the beginning knew that going into this, it's gonna be a whole system, and then you got together people to work for you on that particular project. How did you how did you start building that up? Who did you hire first? What was the what was on your mind there? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

So I already had two things. I already had the people and the process for other aspects of my marketing. So, for example, I have a team of people that helped me with marketing that run social media, ads, copy, emails, website, production when it comes to content, blog content, etc. So I had people available and we also had a process in place. So I'll use, for example, um, I was already generating content like blog content from from day one when I launched my company, right? I was doing very strategic research in terms of how do people find me online, right? So if somebody is searching online how to find a fractional COO, I want them to find me. That's that's our that's our niche, that's our that's our space. So I was generating a lot of blog content in order to create that impact in that area as it pertains to marketing. And we had a process in place. For example, I think at the time, and it's it's expanded since then, but we had like a I'm a very systemized person, very process oriented. I like checklists, I like SOPs. So we had probably a 20 to 25 point checklist of what needed to happen every single time we did a piece of blog content. It's not as simple as open up a Google Doc, maybe using AI, write something, find an image, put it on the website. There's a lot more in the detail that can be a bit of a challenge because sometimes we're kind of building the plane as we fly it. So in the beginning with the blog content, I was very deliberate in saying, okay, what's the content piece? What's the angle? I'm gonna write a blog brief. I'm gonna then do the video, I'm gonna create the blog post, I'm gonna create the emails, I'm gonna create the YouTube video. I'm gonna, you know, I'm I I think I'm gonna create it, but those were the steps. We're gonna write the email, the email is gonna get sent out. And so that was a process. And then I just put in the people that could do their part, and I only had to do my part. So right now, the only part that I do when it comes to blog content, and I'll get to how that translates to a podcast, is I only do the approval of what the content is, but I have a team that does the research, that writes the script, that does the brief, that writes the blog post. I just do the video. When the video's done, then they take the video, they get the transcript, they come up with the different assets, they create the reels, the images, the social posts. That's all a system. So I already had that in place and it was working like a will-illed machine for blog content. And I just put that over into the podcast structure. It's very similar in that way. And so we built out an editorial calendar for the podcast. What are the topics? What are the themes? What's the schedule? And again, once we systematize that, I only had to do the video piece, and then I don't have to do anything else. So it became very manageable from the beginning. And there are teams that you can work with that help map all of that out. So we have a production team that does podcasts, like that's their sweet spot. And so they came in to say, here are all the things that we need not only to launch the podcast, but when we go to do each episode, these are all the checkpoints. And we just kind of created that system into a structure of how we do that as a process in my own company. And now it just kind of runs. And there's times where we tweak it, where we're like, oh, we should do this or we could do that. But by and large, we kind of knew what the process was because we had an example of what to model from with our blog content.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Okay, quick one and then back to the episode. If you're a founder or business owner, also running a remote podcast, audio or video, and you're making your descriptions, doing the clips, editing, finding guests. Stop that now. That is not your job. You're supposed to be working on the business. The podcast is supposed to feed the business. At Pro Pod Concierge, you record, we handle the rest. Right now, we're taking on a handful of founders for a full free month. All I ask in exchange is for feedback or a testimonial if we knock it out of the park for you. Now, this isn't for everyone. If you already have your podcast handled and you don't feel like it's taking away from the time and bandwidth that should be working on the business, skip this. There's only a handful of seats available for those that qualify. Once the seats are full, you will be put on a wait list. If you're interested and want to apply, go to ProPyConcierge.com or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the episode. So you already had a team in place that were had a system in place, all the checkpoints to make do the blog content, and you just simply transitioned those people and that system to a degree over to podcasting because it was already very similar.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Right, right. And and maybe for your audience, it doesn't have to be a whole team, it could be just one person. The the the the the point here is this if you're gonna do a podcast and if you're gonna do every step on your own A to Z, there are a lot of steps in there that you could do, but maybe you shouldn't do because it's not worth your time, energy, and effort. And if you get somebody else to do that for you, that you can invest in at a lower dollar investment than what your time is worth, and you take that time to go do more higher growth investment activities, you're basically spending money to make money. So I think this is a topic in terms of just you know, delegation and and not having to do all of the nuts and bolts of the business, is be able to find whether it's a person or a team. You can start off with just one to help with some elements, but at a certain point, just look at every activity that you're doing and ask yourself, is this necessary that I do this? Can somebody else do this instead of me? And if so, do they have a system to follow and they run that system? Great. Then you no longer have to be involved. That's a big, big shift for I think your audience in terms of not feeling like they have to do everything as it pertains to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

What I'm gathering is that they should generally look at the look at the podcast structure, look at the all the steps, and do a pretty much an audit of what's what everything that needs to be done and look at the things that are uh need me and don't need me, and then figure out how can I delegate out the things that don't need me, especially if it's giving back my time to focus on the more important things.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Right. And and that could apply to anything in marketing, but it also could apply anything in business, right? I know this is about podcasts, but if you look at your marketing and saying, Yeah, I'm spending this time to update my website, I'm spending my time to respond to customer service emails, I'm spending my time doing my bookkeeping. Well, as the business owner, you could do that, but should you really do that? Could you get somebody else that could do that at a more affordable hourly rate than what your time is worth? Definitely. And also, unless a business owner loves to do bookkeeping, and I've never met a business owner that loves to do bookkeeping, it also energetically costs them more than their time because they're probably resentful that they're doing their bookkeeping because they'd rather be doing something else that's more in their zone of genius. So there's a little bit of a mindset shift when it comes to that, I think.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

I I agree with that. So your podcast is mostly to get the message out and help with the marketing side of things. Do you know how much the podcast is actually driving for your business?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's a great question because I think a lot of people ask that. Um, and I always go back to um, you know, a podcast like social media, like email in some respect. It's one of those activities when it comes to marketing that it's hard to track the ROI. Is this really working? Is this really worth it? Which is different from I put up a landing page and I offer a webinar and I drive paid traffic and I know how much I'm spending to get leads, right? If we break it down in that way, which I know you understand. So this is a different, different animal in that regard. And I use social media as an example because obviously social media has been around for quite some time. I don't care if it's Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, whatever it is. People are saying, but I don't do a lot on social media because I don't get clients or I don't get business from social media. You're right. Nobody gets business from social media. You get business through social media, through the relationships, through the connections, through the visibility, through the partnerships, etc. The podcast is the exact same thing. And I think for me, it happens in two ways. One, and I'm not afraid, I'm not ashamed to say it, but I have had guests on my show, and I've also been guests on other people's show where they become a client. So for me, that's the ROI right there. And I'm not doing that by intent. I'm not going onto somebody's show to position myself to say, hey, would you like to be a client? I'm coming from a place of giving value and offering content and sharing the message with their audience. And listen, inevitably, if that host of the show is interested in what I'm saying and wants to explore that further, great, but that's separate from the podcast, right? Conversely, I've had guests on my show, right? So in my show, I do one episode where it's me content, and then the next episode is a guest. The guest could be a client, as like a case study. It could be a subject matter expert in a field that I, as a COO company, don't own. For example, we might bring in somebody that knows more about finance or AI or marketing or health and wellness. Great. That's a value add for my audience because I can't speak to AI as well as an AI subject matter expert. So I bring them in. And I share that because sometimes, again, not by intent, but that guest on my show through the relationship and through the connection and through the exploration of can we do something together, huh? Maybe I should talk to you about what you do. That's the benefit of using a podcast, in addition to what we talked about earlier in terms of content. But it's the same idea in terms of whether it's social media or going to networking events or going to conferences or anything else. You may not walk away with a paid client from going to a networking event, but you're going to walk away with relationships and connections that you can then follow up on and have conversations to explore. How can I help you? How can you help me? Let's see if there's some synergy in that way. So, again, it's a mindset shift to think about you're not going to get clients from your podcast, but you may get client opportunities through having a podcast. So I think that's an important distinction.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

You may not get clients from your podcast, but you may get client opportunities through your podcast.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Can you tell me more in detail of that one time that of one time where the guest became a client and how that actually planned out? Like how did it go from A to B to sale and all like that?

SPEAKER_00 17:44

Yeah. Uh I'll use the example of when I was a guest. Do you want me to use the example of when I was on their podcast or when they came? Because I have one of each, or they came as a guest on my podcast. I could do either one.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Which one, which one has you know what? Just pick one. Just pick one.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Okay, okay. I'll use the example of when I was a guest on somebody else's a podcast, somebody else's podcast. So um their pod and in a very different niche. So their their podcast was they're in the construction business, and he had a podcast that showcased to other construction business owners how to grow and scale their business. And so he would bring in subject matter experts about marketing or finance or anything legal, HR. So he brought me in. And when you do this as a guest, you don't make it about you, you don't make it about your service, you make it about them, you speak to their audience. So I spoke to his audience, but really I was speaking to him. And he wanted me to speak to him and he asked questions like, for example, with my construction business, if I'm the bottleneck as the founder in my own company, how do you help me not become the bottleneck? And it was a valid question. It was actually looking for more specific, tangible coaching or advice to him as the business owner, but it also served his audience. And so through that exchange, he became really intrigued about how we do what we do, how it helps our clients, how it moves the needle, how it generates ROI, how it frees them up to focus on a bigger future in their company, not being so bogged down in the day-to-day. Like all the things that we know is the value out of how we do what we do. It was speaking to his audience, but it was also directly speaking to him. So we did the show. It was a great chat. When we wrapped up, stopped the recording, and he looked at me and I'll never forget this. And he looked at me point blank. He's like, I need to hire you guys. Like, this is exactly what I need. And I said, Okay, I mean, great. I mean, I just want you to know in full disclosure, this is not why I came on your show. I came here to add value. And he said, No, I get that, but can we have a conversation? Remember, can we have a conversation? It's not like we finished the podcast and he's like, here's the check. I want to become a client. The opportunity came through the podcast. It didn't come directly from the podcast. We had that conversation. Maybe it was a couple conversations. He ended up being a client with us. He's still with us now for the last four or five months. But here's the kicker. Here's the kicker. He has referred to other clients to our organization from him because he's seeing the value and he knows other construction business owners. And he'll say, Hey, Paul, you should speak to Derek. Hey, Tony, you should speak to Derek. So not only is the ROI from the initial conversation to then a paying client, and our engagements are high four to $5K a month. So this is not a small investment for the work that we provide. And so he's been with us for four months. You can do the math. He's referred to other clients that have been with us for a month or two. You could do the math. So just that one relationship alone has been a multiple five-figure return on investment, just by me showing up and wanting to offer value and content to his audience. So that was, I think that's a good example.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah, that was that was a great example. You just you were talking to his audience, but really to him. Yeah. He was you were answering kind of questions that he genuinely wanted answered, building kind of rapport and connection. And by the end of it, he was like, you know what? I need you to help me now. So you had a conversation. Yeah, and then kicker referrals.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, I think if your audience listen, I mean, if your audience is listening and they're I firmly believe this, I spend just as much time doing this as being a guest on other podcasts as I do with my own podcast. So I think if you are running a podcast or thinking about running the podcast, it doesn't always have to be you as the host. You can be the guest. You can have these opportunities surface in both ways. Um so I think it's yeah, it's a value, it was a value add, but it just had some other benefit in terms of the client work, you know, after that fact.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

That being said, your podcast seems to be mostly a supporting asset to your. Your business rather than like the a pipeline in of itself. It just practice it does generate clients here and there through the content, through the relationships that you build. How are you making sure? Like what exactly are the things that you're using to support the podcast, like uh repurposing and whatnot? It's just clips, like blog posts. What's what are you actually putting out?

SPEAKER_00 22:26

I'll say one other, if I could just go back to the last question. There's another benefit of having a podcast, which is it sometimes can get your foot in the door. Just like a book is kind of a credibility stamp. You're an authority in the marketplace, you're the subject matter expert. You have credibility because you have a podcast. It's the same stamp of approval in a way like if you have a book. Uh, except I like the idea of the podcast because it's living and breathing. So I can sometimes use the podcast as leverage to get me in front of potential podcast hosts or podcast guests because I've got a podcast. I've got 39 episodes, I've been featured on X, Y, and Z podcasts, I've had A, B, and C as a guest on my podcast. It gets your foot in the door for partnerships or connections or relationships that can really help move the needle in the business. So that's another benefit, I think, to that extent. As far as the leveraging the podcast as an asset, um, I'm happy to share. I mean, you know, I'll do a video like this. We use Riverside, whether it's me or having a guest. The moment that I hit done from the process, the team knows. And we use a project management system so they know exactly what task is needed for which episode. I've got episodes built out all the way for the next three months as an example. I've got somebody on my team that's doing a lot of outreach with me. So I'm kind of constantly fielding opportunities for new potential guests that can be on my show. Um, but once that video is done, they slice and dice it. They produce the edited finished product. They create at least three to four different reels that go out on all the different social media channels. They create the copy that goes along with those social posts. They create the images, the graphics that go along with that. They create that on the website as a blog post. So it helps for SEO purposes. Um, the other thing that they do is we then send an email to my email list. Um, that's part of my, you know, I have an email list of subscribers, clients, partners, leads, people that might be interested. So that goes out and say, hey, new put, new, new episode on the podcast, check it out. And then I uh link that to the podcast page on my website. And they can listen to it, they can watch it on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, whatever the platform is, they do all of the the channel distribution. Um, yeah, I mean that's and again, I don't have to do that. There's there's the team that does that, there's the process that does that. Um, I create the asset, which is the video, um, and then they take care of everything else. Oh, and the other thing I'll say, which has worked well, which is it doesn't ask a lot for your team, but I think it adds a lot to your guest if you have a a guest on your podcast, is we give them the raw material. Here's the video, here are the reels. They're of you. You can use them for your own marketing, you can show them on your social media profiles, on your website, use them if you want. And I always feel like I'm not asking you to promote it. You don't have to. That's not an obligation. But when you give them the material to share on their own, they do because it showcases them, but it also links back to me. So that's another benefit of using that as an asset.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

About that, giving the raw materials to guests, uh, do you mean the edited finished parts or the actual okay? The edited.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Yeah, the edited part. Not not all the the starts and stops and the mix-ups or anything else. I mean, my podcast is very much like this, right? It's very organic, it's very, you know, kind of freeform. We're not scripted, we're having a conversation. And so sometimes there are really good gems, like really good nuggets that the guest says that, you know, they can pick and choose and use it on their own, but we also go through and do some of that already and find some of the best highlights, and those are the reels. So they can use the whole edited footage for their own, or they could just directly use exactly what we've created for the reels and use them on, you know, their own for their own purpose.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

What is the, in your opinion, the strongest benefit of having your podcast? I would say everything I said.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

I know that's sure. That's not that's not a it's a cop-out answer, but I think um, listen, it does take some work, right? So it's not it's not something that you press a button and it's done. So, like most marketing, you got to put in the effort, you got to put in the time, you gotta be committed, right? This is not something you dabble in for a little bit and then you step out, right? It's it's it's like you know it's living and breathing. So you have to to put in the energy. But I think at the end of the day, if I were to just say like the things that come to mind credibility, authority, building your brand, getting your message out there, amplifying your social media content, SEO, website, email, video, partnerships, clients, connections, relationships, getting your foot in the door. I mean, those are like 10 things just from one marketing channel, a podcast, right? And not to say that you have to do all of these things, right? Start small, start manageable, and then grow over time. But there are some people that don't do any other marketing other than their podcast because it works. I happen to use marketing, use the podcast among many other channels for marketing because I'm really focused on growing and scaling my company. Yeah, but it's it's easy for me because it's now a process, just like when we run email, when we do ad campaigns, when we uh do blog content. So uh there are infinite number of advantages that outweigh any any proposed disadvantages.

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Yeah, you listed it off. It's all of those things. For me, honestly, I'm an example of that. The podcast, my podcast is like the main thing that's generating a bunch of content that is helping me market for my business.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

And before this, I actually didn't, I had next to nothing. I was just doing cold outreach. So it was a big jump.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah, yeah. The other one I didn't mention, uh, in terms of the benefits, like one of the things that I mentioned in terms of other the types of guests that we have on my show, I I I have my clients, I do case studies. So it helps with sales. If I I just did this literally before, as I I said to you, I had a sales call just before this. And when the follow-up email goes to that prospect that says, here's how we can work together, here's what's going to help you, et cetera. I'll say, here's a recent podcast episode that I did with one of our clients. So you can see firsthand, in their words, not mine, in their words, how this has helped their business transform. So it's doing the heavy lifting for the sales because then they're watching. And this is why I think it's really beneficial to do video over audio, because video is more compelling. You can see each other's eyes, you can really get a sense of who this person is. Do I know them? Do I like them? Do I trust them? And so it can help in the sales process as like your unpaid sales force, because they're actually showcasing to potential clients the benefit of the work that you do with your own clients and customers. So I forgot to add that one to the list, but that's that's definitely up there.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yeah, let's actually go into that one a little bit. So essentially, these these 45-minute long testimonials that you can then point to potential clients, right? Like, what did you think of that ahead of time and decide, oh, I'm gonna do this and then share it with potential clients? Is that like a main strategy that you've thought of and implemented or for sure?

SPEAKER_00 29:31

Yeah, definitely. I mean, listen, I'm a marketer first, so I've you know, this is uh listen, it's to showcase them, right? They get to talk about their business. And and you know, one of the clients that's been on my show, it was about the work that we're doing together, wasn't necessarily all about them and their business, but I'll say, John, tell the tell the audience about your business. And when John did that, actually, somebody reached out to John who was watching or listening to the show and said, I actually need what John does, so there's a benefit for them in that way. But yeah, and full disclosure, I mean, you know, case studies and testimonials are some of the best form of marketing, so of course I'm going to be intentional and using it in that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

That's definitely something people listening should probably think about adding. Yeah, yeah. Let's say a founder listening right now, they're intrigued by all of what you said. They have their own podcasts, but it's still not getting anything business-wise, like any business results. How do you think someone should approach figuring out how to have their podcast actually help them in their business?

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Yeah. Um, I would say focused on the long game. Don't see a podcast as being a transactional marketing thing that's going to generate immediate exposure leads clients business, right? I you I go back to direct response marketing. I put up a landing page, I'm offering a webinar, I drive paid traffic. I can immediately justify the ROI because it's real time. Podcast, it could take weeks, it could take months, it could take years, right? And that's the long game. It's not like, well, I don't know when my website's going to generate me business, or I'm not going to have a website, right? Like business, you can't think like that. Like it's almost a must-have. I'm not suggesting that you must have a podcast, but for all the reasons that I mentioned, why wouldn't you? But don't give up on the fact that it may not be working for you in the first couple of episodes because you're not getting people knocking on your door saying, Hey, Derek, I want to work with you. It takes time, right? It's a long-term marketing asset that needs to build and have longevity. It's not a quick fix. So I think if they look at it in the long game as opposed to the short game perspective, then they'll be able to see that it's actually a valuable marketing asset that can really help them.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

They really gotta stick to it. Yeah, a lot of benefits to it, but it is a compounding thing, not something that's immediately going to pan out in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_00 32:01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Fair enough, fair enough. All right. Um, final question. So you're saying it's a long game, but let's say that same person not getting any business outcomes from their podcast. What is the thing that they should do going into the next week, going into the next episode that'll make a big difference?

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Sure. Yeah. Um, go on other people's podcasts. Uh, if if if you're questioning the value, not the value, but the output, like the outcome of your own, and it could be for a number of reasons, for whatever that might be. Practice, practice, practice. I've probably been on um uh honestly over a hundred podcasts in the last 18 months. I I probably have shows like this two, three times a week. Um, I so I spend infinitely more time on other people's podcasts than my own, because I do mine twice a month, and one of them is easy because I just bring on a guest, right? But I spend a significant amount of time reaching out, finding other people's podcasts, developing relationships, practicing my thing when I'm on a podcast. So when I do my own, I feel more in my own skin. I feel confident, I feel clear, I feel capable to be able to speak my message because I've spoken my message so many times in so many other people's shows. So practice, practice, practice. And if you feel like you don't want to use your own podcast to keep practicing, well, practice on other people's podcasts and then bring all those best suggestions and and the lessons that you've learned into your own. I think that's a very valuable lesson.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Go on other people podcasts. Maybe even way more seems get that practice in. Okay. Understood. Thank you for being on the show. I highly appreciate it. You're welcome. This has been the Founder Podcast Lab. See you in the next episode.