Why People Way Above Your Level Say Yes to a Podcast Invite

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I've I've met multiple of my heroes thanks to my podcast. And let me tell you, those are some of the craziest and scariest messages I have sent. He's become a great friend and a great counterpart. Um, we bounce ideas off of one another.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

What benefits are you trying to see out of it?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

That's that's another really good question. And AJ Waters, field COO of Procore and host of The Engineered Life. AJ started his show with nothing to sell, and about 30 episodes in, it's put him in rooms with his industry heroes, some of whom are now his close friends. We get into why people way above his level say yes to a podcast invite and what your show can build for you besides clients.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

I don't really have any anything to sell. Number one, I know I'm better connected across the industry, right? Number two, these guests aren't afraid to give me feedback on the software that we can use to make it better. What the podcast has allowed me to do is really expand the room so that I can constantly be learning. I thought it was a cool way that you could ask someone to be a guest, right? Like, hey, I think you are uniquely.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

I'm Kenny, and this is the Founder Podcast Lab. So, AJ, for someone who's never heard of you, who are you? What is your show called? And why does your show exist?

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Oh wow. Loaded question. All right, well, hello everyone. My name is AJ Waters. I'm field COO at Procor for the Public Sector. And uh, and I have a show or a podcast on the side that's called The Engineered Life. And why does it exist? Um, a few years ago, I decided to start a blog. I had a bunch of stuff rattling around in my head that I've collected over years. Um, you know, those landmines that we all blew up and failed on throughout life, um, that uh that I was hoping to share to with individuals so that they didn't trip over the same stuff. And so I started this blog. And after a year of doing that, I got really sick of talking at the construction industry. I wanted to talk with the construction industry. So I kind of went through this evolution in my head where I could, you know, if I asked people in the construction industry to co-author a blog with me, that's kind of rude. Like, will you write something for me so I can put it on my site? And so I figured I'd I'd interview them and uh and then I could write up the blog. But then I got to the the point of thinking, well, if if I interview some of these people, like some of them I'm good friends with, we're gonna have fun during the conversation. People are gonna want to see that, so I might as well record the interview, and then I could just link the video in at the end of the blog if they wanted to get the whole interview, and that's where I had the realization, well, if I just rip the audio off the interview, it's a podcast. And so that's how the podcast got started is I I wanted to talk with more people in the industry, and uh, and so now it exists to highlight specific individuals who have what what I would call a superpower that they're using to make the construction industry better. Um, but kind of the the trick of the whole thing is that their superpower isn't like super strength or flight or invisibility or what you would think, but they're all skills that are learnable, that are teachable. And so that anyone listening to the show can pick up a couple of tips on how to do the same thing for their project, for their company, for their organization. And uh, and then the industry as a whole gets incrementally better across the board.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

So you had this blog, you were tired of just talking at people, wanted to talk with people and have other people to collaborate with, realized I should interview it, turn into a podcast.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

And now with this podcast, you're interviewing specific people in the construction industry who have like superpowers, as you put it, like very specific skills and a way of looking at things. And now from those interviews episodes, you find actionable tips and things that people can take into their construction space and move and be better with it. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Exactly. Yep, that's the whole goal.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

With all of that, what benefit are you trying to see out of it? Is it just that you're trying to give back to other people, or are you is there something maybe on the long term that you want to sell or be able to build more networking? What's what do you see coming out of it for you?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

That's that's another really good question. And you know, it's one that I've gotten a lot lately is you know, what's in it for you, or why do you do what you do? You know, that that kind of question. And at the end of the day, I grew up a Boy Scout. Um, we were taught to leave the campground better than you found it. And so what I've kind of landed on that same mentality, leave the industry better than I found it. And uh, and so that's the end goal, right? Like I I don't really have any uh anything to sell. I don't have anything, you know, of of of value that I've I've put up on the website. My my goal is to share what what I think are interesting stories and interesting people in a way that hopefully leaves an impact on the industry and it makes it a better place than it than it was when when I showed up. Now, obviously that's a pretty lofty goal. Um, and who knows if we'll ever get there, but uh, but that's kind of the the mentality that that I have with each episode. And so um what what it does afford though is two two really cool things. Number one, I gotta meet some really awesome people and have some great conversations, and uh, and you can never know too many people uh when it comes to uh when it comes to life. And and number two, as I meet these people, I get to learn from them and build credibility and and that sort of thing. And so um at the the more that I'm seen in the industry, around the industry, about the industry, the more that credibility kind of grows. And I can use that then in all the conversations that I'm having, right? Uh whether it be at work or just in these these different episodes.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Would you say that's the biggest or one of the benefits you would lose if your show disappeared tomorrow?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Yeah, if if my show disappeared tomorrow, I think the big thing that I would lose is is these opportunities to meet great people. Um, that that for me, the the kind of person that I am and just how I operate, um losing that opportunity to have these discussions and and learn from these great people, that would be the number one thing that I would lose if the show vanished tomorrow. Also, I that means I'm going back to just sharing from my own experience, which is this big compared to the industry at large, right? And so um the the the blog itself or the you know or the show itself, right? If if I take away those guests and what I can learn from those other people, then I take away growth opportunities across the board.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

So overall, as you're saying, it's to leave the campground better than you found it, right? Yep. And your biggest personal benefit is having these great conversations with these people in the industry that you can learn from as well as just build connections. Can you give me an example of like one connection that you've built in podcasting that surprised you and benefited you more than you realized?

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Oh wow, um, that's a good question. I think my my favorite one is uh is a gentleman by the name of Tyler Campbell, um who I actually met the first time as a guest on his podcast. Uh their podcast, he and his brother have a pro podcast called the Construction Brothers, one of my all-time favorites. And uh, and I was coming up through the industry listening to them, um, made the cold outreach because we're going to be at the same conference, got to meet him in person, uh, sit down and record with him. And it's he's become a great friend and uh and a great counterpart. Uh, we bounce ideas off of one another uh often. We have a a Friday morning men's group that we get together with that is super awesome uh and just very encouraging, and so that relationship has grown past just the you know host guest relationship, and he's become just a wonderful human being um to be connected with for me personally, and so that's one of them that really surprised me. Obviously, there's there's a list I could go down um a list of different uh friends that I now have because we've met through podcasting, which is which is awesome. I just had um Josh Lubker was just in town here, uh, and I met met up with him because he released a new book, and uh, and so we got to sit down and have coffee. That's that's another cool uh like sidebar. And Kenny, maybe you've experienced this. The more you do this, uh, and if you travel a lot like me for work, the more friends you have in other places. So when you show up somewhere, you can meet them and have coffee and like actually see these people in person, it is super fun.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah, AJ. It really seems like you're a super social dude and just loves to connect in general, even if you didn't have this podcast. So I imagine it is super fun for you. It really is. And um, one moment, lost my train of thought. I'll grab it. That's all right, it'll come to me and I'll cut this out at some point.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

Yeah, this is why we record them, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Right, right, right. Oh, you were giving me examples of people that you build connections with and you were traveling and you were able to see them in person. So back with what was it, Tyler Campbell? Was that right? Yep, Tyler Campbell, yeah, Tambo Tyler Campbell. You said you were watching his podcast with his brother coming up, so you maybe in a way kind of met one of your heroes because of your podcast. Is that what happened?

SPEAKER_02 11:18

100%, yeah. I've I've met multiple of my heroes thanks to my podcast, and let me tell you, those are some of the craziest and scariest messages I have sent to people, and I'll even admit that when I send it to them, that uh that I, you know, was scared for a long time to say this, but I would love if I could have you as a guest on the show, and uh, and that's happened multiple times, or I've I've met them in person at conferences um post, and uh, but yeah, definitely have met several of my heroes across the industry um thanks to the show, and uh, and many of them have done me favors by coming on the and and being a part of one of the episodes, especially early on, where I was still, you know, just trying to get things off the ground, didn't know what I was doing, and uh, and had you know those clunky host moments that uh that'll pop up, and and they were very gracious to be a part of it and uh and to help out. So it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I'm gonna try and make an uh an analogy here. So it's like you it's like you got a radioactive spider, you became Spider-Man, and you have this big you're big fan of the Avengers and Tony and everything, all of them. And because now that you're Spider-Man and you're in there, now you have an opportunity to meet your heroes like Tony Stark, like the Hulk, and stuff like that. I see that exact same benefit since I got into podcasting. I did not realize how relatively easy it would be to meet a lot of these people way above my weight class simply because I have a podcast. I've been able to message people who make multimillions of dollars, and I'm like, oh, so you're you're you want to be on my podcast? Great. And like because of that, I'm able to make these connections and benefit from them and learn from them. Um I need to learn how to maintain connections, me personally. That's some weakness that I have, but that is a strong benefit in podcasting that I've seen that I just I can't, I wouldn't be able to find anywhere else.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah, it's it's very, very much like the Spider-Man, um, or even you know, when the Ant-Man shows up the first time and he's like, Thanks for thanking of me, right? Yes, and yeah, it is uh it it's a lot of that um feel when you when you meet these folks, and and you're right, they are um they are every bit uh up to this point, anyway. The guests that I have had on the show are every bit as authentic and real and kind behind the scenes when we do this as they are in public, and so that's been super cool. You know, a lot of people will say there's a risk, right, in meeting your heroes. Never meet your heroes that you'll be disappointed. I have not been up to this point. The folks that I've been able to work with have been top-notch.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

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SPEAKER_02 15:41

So that's a tough question. Um because you never really know. It's uh it's it's really difficult. I I mean, you get certain demographics from the the platforms that you host on, and you you hope, right, that they're the people um that you think they are. But uh, but to answer your question, who do I want listening? Um I I do the podcast for the younger me, right? The me 10 to 15 years ago that needed this kind of information before podcasting really existed the way it does today. Um, and uh in the the entry-level or early career engineer or professional that um is trying to figure out who they are and what path they want to follow and how they can be that glue at their organization uh or that person that people can rely on. And uh, and a lot of times, like I said, we end each episode with practical takeaways that that people can implement in their daily work to have the same superpower that we're we'd been discussing the whole show. And uh, and so the ideal listener is someone who is actively chasing that kind of growth and those kind of skills.

unknown 17:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Looking to go down this path and take it seriously. Now, I agree, it seems to be a commonplace thing in podcasting where we just aren't entirely sure if it's reaching the right people, especially earlier on. Oh, the best thing that I've seen to do is simply make sure we're clear on who we're trying to serve.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

And then getting that out there, of course, and repurposing. Um, I've seen that you repurposed the clips, maybe certain little stationary pictures that also have captions from the podcast. Well, maybe that was something different. Uh, what are ways that you use to repurpose your episodes, other than just you know the blog you were mentioning before?

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Yeah, good question. So you're exactly right. I I use the blog, but I also use um clips. Um one of the things I kind of came up on the on the professional side of social media using LinkedIn for a lot of stuff I was doing. Um when I when I took a swing at expanding that into things like Instagram and and uh and and YouTube, I found out very quickly it's not the same, right? Like LinkedIn's a very different medium versus uh Instagram and and and YouTube and even TikTok, where you know more of those young professionals that that I'm trying to target are at. And so that I knew that I needed some form of video content if I was gonna really break into those uh mediums, and so that's that's a place where I do repurpose. Um, there are a couple of clips that will show up on LinkedIn, but there are daily clips that are being posted across other social channels uh to try to reach more audience that way.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Yep. That makes a lot of sense. I noticed you were on TikTok, not everyone's on TikTok, but based on every your goals, that makes a lot of sense. What is one main difference you've seen on TikTok and would you recommend someone else do if they want to be on TikTok? How should it how should they approach that with their repurposing?

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Well, one main difference I've seen on TikTok is uh I have no idea what I'm doing. But uh so so like I wouldn't follow my advice yet. I would I would definitely do your research on how to best utilize um TikTok if that's where the route you want to go. I'm still trying to figure that one out. Um I'm I'm posting every day just to to have something up there, but uh, but I think there's there's work that I still need to do. One of the other things, Kenny, that's interesting that I didn't mention, you know, you ask how I repurpose this. I do a lot of uh speaking at events as well. So in-person speaking, and a lot of times I get inspiration for panel discussions or even panelists or topics from the podcast itself. So, like there's an example, I'm working on it on a talk right now for a month from now down in Phoenix. In an episode that I recorded recently, we had a conversation around whether or not you could trust AI. And that's kind of that was kind of the inspiration for well, let's build a panel around that and let's have that discussion live on stage. What do we need to truly trust the output of AI in construction? And so that's another um interesting side uh uh use of the some of this the conversations that I'm having that that many people would have never you know realized that hey, you can you can even spin this out into into the way that you work um in your day-to-day.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

That is an interesting form of repurposing. So it came organically just from a specific episode where you thought, yeah, that's a great topic. I have enough to say about that, and I've learned something in that episode. I can make that a panel. Now, with your public speaking, how much does it tie into the podcast? Does it tie in at all, other than just that one idea that you came to be?

SPEAKER_02 21:27

Yes and no. There um, I have earned a few public speaking opportunities because of the podcast now, which has been which has been fun. Um, and uh and so that that's starting to tie in a little bit as well. But uh, or again, going back to sometimes guests that were on the show will end up being co presenters or panelists with me uh at a at an event. And so if if if we're heading Headed to the the region where I know they're at, and we're having a conversation that I know they are an expert in, then I'm going to be reaching out to them and saying, Hey, would you be interested in doing this live? You know?

SPEAKER_01 22:14

I'm curious. You don't have to say if there's a number specifically, but do you get paid for these public speaking gigs? Or is it just something you do? I do not. No. Okay. Fair enough. I know some people do, but that doesn't seem to be your goal here, which is perfectly fine.

SPEAKER_02 22:34

Yeah. Well, and a lot of mine's mine's work related too, right? So um many times I'm I'm up there representing Procore and and uh in what we have to offer, so it wouldn't make sense anyway.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Sure. Okay, I see. I see. Has it been able the podcast itself been able to help you with your day job at Procore at all?

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Oh, a hundred percent. Um number one, I know I I'm better connected across the industry, right? Number two, these guests aren't afraid to give me feedback on the software that we can use to make it better. Uh, and number three, I am constantly learning. Again, you know, it I think John Maxwell is the one who's famous for saying if if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And uh, and what the podcast has allowed me to do is really expand the room um so that I can constantly be learning in every every conversation, there's at least one nugget that I can take back to work and and be just a little bit better in my day job and what I know about the industry, what I understand about their challenges, um, and how we're going to tackle the future when it comes to technology in construction.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

First and foremost, I do like the format of your podcast. I like how it ties into how uh nerdy you are. I mean, I see your background, and I see that in your captions that you utilize that nerdiness sometimes. What one mentioned, I believe Thor commented on that one. Yep. What made you want to put that aspect into the blog size podcast? That whole, like, oh, I'm a nerd, I'm gonna put superhero stuff into this, I'm gonna put my all this nerdy stuff into it.

SPEAKER_02 24:32

Well, that's um that's a good question. So the the blog originally was the engineered life. So um from the get-go, nerd was in the title. Um basically because I've been called an engineerd multiple times throughout my life. Um, so I just ran with it, you know. And the if the shoe fits, wear it. Uh, and so I I have no problem with that. Um, and that's that's where the initial name came from. When I was brainstorming ideas around the podcast, and I kind of landed on this superhero uh or superpower idea, um, that just happened organically, more or less by accident. Um, as I as I came to understand what I wanted the show to be about and how how it would work. And and if you listen to enough episodes, you'll actually start to feel the superhero arc as the way the show goes. Like the origins, it starts with the origin story, then you you figure out you have powers, then we talk about how the industry pushes back or the villain attacks you, um, why your power ends up winning the day, and then then we get into the practical takeaways. So the shows kind of follow the superhero arc um as we go through them. And that that was all purposeful, but it it wasn't really necessarily because I was into the Marvel uh universe or anything like that. It just it ended up happening organically and and being a I thought it was a cool way that you could ask someone to be a guest, right? Like, hey, I think you are uniquely talented at X, and I think more people need to know about that. Um, it's a really it's it's a a complimentary way to ask someone to be a guest on the show, and it gives you a focal point, like a topic for the show without having to come up with an idea, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:42

The whole engineered life thing, it's very, it's a very strong brand. Yeah, it's very much like, oh, I know what I'm getting into here. Like, I'm into this and I'm into that. Let's bring them together. It's like, yeah, that's me. I mean, I want to learn more about construction by this guy because he understands me. I see that on LinkedIn you have like 8,000 followers, and it is your main platform. You're trying to reach out, like Instagram and TikTok and stuff like that, still learning there. You got any tips for building up your following on LinkedIn? I know it's probably not fully related to the podcast itself, but I am curious about that.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Yeah, post consistently. That uh that's the number one way to build a following on LinkedIn is to post consistently. The number two way, um, in what I think is it's it's probably just as important is to post authentically. Um, and that kind of goes back to the you know, the engineered concept, the superheroes, you know, quoting Thor, throwing the Legos out there. Uh, you'll you'll notice if you follow me on social long enough, my family pops up probably once a week, right? Um, because that's who I am, right? And uh, and there's no reason to be an artifice artificial version just on social, right? Like that whole filter, like everybody sees the best parts. I just want to be me. And uh, and so like in an in an era of AI generated this and AI generated that, and all the content you're you're trying to decide who actually wrote it or created or if the image is even real. I uh I try to post as authentically as me as possible. And and so those those are my like two big tips is post consistently and post aut authentically, and uh and that's that's how you grow. And it it takes time. Um it it definitely doesn't happen overnight. Uh, but you'll you'll steadily see the the comments start to come in. You'll have have discussions in the comments, like stay active in your own comment feed. That helps. Um because uh because people know you're not just throwing stuff out there, but again, you're actually a real human, it's not a bot doing something. Um, all of that can uh can support your growth.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

And engage in the comments, yeah. And it takes time, but you'll start to see that growth. I'd imagine you're also some iteration there too, right? Like this isn't working. All right, let me adjust this.

SPEAKER_02 29:37

I yeah, I tend to watch the the engagements in the comments, and if if folks aren't commenting, that didn't land, right? And so it's time to to pivot or adjust. Um the the problem is the algorithm's constantly changing too. So something that could have worked last week doesn't work this week, right? And and you just you can't take the numbers personally and and you can't uh you can't get too wrapped up into what you think is the next brilliant viral post. Um, because if it bombs, right, that totally kills your momentum, and uh, and you just have to take it with a grain of salt and move on to the next one.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

Fair enough. With your podcast posts specifically, what format do you does work the best for you repurposing wise on LinkedIn towards your followers that uh so the video clips get the most engagement.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

Um what's hard with what's hard with podcasts or really any content that you're trying to share on LinkedIn um that's off platform, right? So like the links to the show uh or to subscribe for the podcast, etc. Um, LinkedIn's not a super huge fan of links that aren't theirs, um pointing people away from the site, right? Like it's it's to their benefit you stay on the site as long as possible. And so any link or a hyperlink or redirect elsewhere will tend to slow things down um just organically because that's the way that the algorithm's written. And so a lot of times the the content gets best um seen on LinkedIn if it's that uh that Friday post, which is a recap of of of the the episode that had launched that Tuesday. Um, it usually gets the best traction because it has the least amount of like click-through or other things, it's just a reminder and a recap. And the comments section is where some of the the past stuff will be, but um there's still a lot of random and randomness to it. Like um, I'll be honest, I post every Saturday morning I post a teaser about the upcoming episode, and I posted one one week that was just a picture with with my old structural engineering design book, and I did not expect that one to be the one that got the most engagement uh across the board, uh, which was which was really weird, right? And so, like, there are there's a lot of unexpected still that'll come out of a post in the way that that something gets put together, and I think one will be clever and it'll fall flat, and that's just what it is.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

So it's definitely just post consistently, post authentically, a little bit iteration, but of course, you know, you never know what the algorithm is gonna do. But you mentioned that links on the post don't do as well. I actually did notice that now, wanted to ask you about it. You I noticed that in your post, you don't leave the link in the post, you put it in the comments. Yep. Did that make a huge difference?

SPEAKER_02 32:58

It made an incremental difference, yes. Um it has helped. And the other thing that's interesting is everyone has a time, right? Like there's a time a day that works better for posting, and it depends on the day. And and you kind of have to iterate with that as well, and you'll figure it out, everybody's audience is different. So, like, my time, if I were to tell you what it was, wouldn't likely make sense based on your audience, right? And so, like, there are certain moments in the day as well that are that are important that you learn as you iterate where and when people are active on your sites.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

AJ Waters, Engineer Life, COO of your ProCure. Is that right? Procore. Pro core. Okay, right, right. This podcast is to leave the campground better than where it where you found it. You use it to also build connections. You've gotten some great connections, met some of your heroes, reached out with them, saying, Hey, you have this superpower that would be good for my audience. Have this great and clear brand that is nerdy, construction, good personality, bringing it all together, reposting with the blog, with the clips, with certain other things, doing your iteration. Anyway, you're like 20, 30 episodes in at this point.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Uh yeah, I think 31 goes live this week, maybe something like that.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Yep. Looks like this podcast is working exactly the way you want it to.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

I think so. Um, it's again, I'm having fun. So at least that part is happening, like it's not a uh a drain. Um, I've had good feedback from guests of it pointing folks to them that they maybe wouldn't have heard from initially if if they hadn't been on the show. So that means it's working for them as well, right? Um, and and yeah, I the conversations are fun, they're engaging, and uh, and so hopefully it's doing what it is meant to do and helping someone on the other end to get just a little bit better.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Is there anything that you wanted to mention that we haven't discussed in the episode?

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I don't think so. I think it's uh pretty straightforward, and yeah, that was one of the things. Like when you first reached out to me, Kenny, I obviously I was honored first and foremost, but I was a little worried like, do I really have good answers for you because I'm not really looking to sell something, or I'm not really looking to, you know, and in so it's a little bit different of a feel. This is a labor of love type podcast. Um, but at the same time, right, it uh it hopefully is adding value to uh to the people on the other end of it, and that that's what that that's what matters with any podcast, right? Like nobody no podcast is gonna get any traction if it doesn't add value. And uh, and so hopefully that's at least what it's doing at the minimum, uh, for people who are listening. And and if if it is, then perfect.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I think there's definitely some valuable things here from my audience. Uh, and so thank you for being on the show, AJ. I really appreciate it. You are very welcome. Thanks for having me. Though, one more question before we go. Ooh, in 60 seconds or less, for another podcaster listening who wants to have more engagement for their audience in their podcasts. What's the one thing you would recommend they do going into the next episode?

SPEAKER_02 36:56

Research. Research your guest. Don't go in cold. Um, understand kind of what you want to get to, how you want to get there, and the more prep that you can give them, the better. Uh, because then they'll feel more comfortable, right? Um, in the episode, and that makes the conversation a lot more uh organic and it makes the conversation flow. So the the more research that you can do about your guests and understanding them and having the the prepared questions just like you did today, Kenny, which was perfect. Um, that is what makes an episode great.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

Thanks again, AJ, for being on the show. You are welcome. That being said, this has been the Founder Podcast Lab. See you in the next episode. All right.