The Unknown Podcast Guests That Opened One Founder's Biggest Doors

SPEAKER_00 0:00

My biggest videos are with uh not so famous people. That video went viral, and we hit like a million, it went 1.4 million as we speak now.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Explain what you mean by toast, because I think I was following, but I'm curious what you mean by that. Sure, sure. Sean Parasha, he built Engage for More, an employee engagement company in India, went through bankruptcy, came back, and now runs the Good Go Bar Show, where he talks with everyone from cricketers to surgeons about what they learned the hard way.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

My suggestion to anybody who does not have an access to big names, popular names visible on internet, don't get worried about it at all. Because they have not been so much out there as big people, they came sincere for the conversation. They respected the platform. So know your boundary, know your promise, but go deep. The worst thing that I had to really manage in my own head is to I'm Kenny, and this is the Founder Podcast Lab.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

So, Nishant, you built Engage for More, you went through bankruptcy, came back, you made the good Goobar show. Why did you make the show and what has it done for you so far?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Uh first and foremost, Kenny, thank you for inviting me all the way from the other side of the world altogether. And I uh appreciate you finding a value in the show, in my journey and in the business that I do. You know, bankruptcy puts you in an in a very interesting state of mind. Uh and if you're lucky enough to bounce back with the same brand name in a similar kind of a business, uh you come back with a lot of uh lot of practicality, a lot of realism. And one of that thought or a personality change in me was that I would not carry any pretensions, which otherwise uh somebody like me who comes from a very small village would like to project myself in a very uh not-so-real, uh uh, you know, a lot more achieved uh uh you know, version of me. And carrying the burden of a projection, uh, I think it's a very not so needed uh burden that you carry in in your conduct. Okay, so so what I realized is that I need to be very straightforward as honest and do very um candid, vulnerable conversation. And I have I felt the power of so much stronger connect with family, with my employees, with my clients, with the artist community, uh, with a lot more real, honest uh version of me. Uh yeah. So this podcast actually came as a suggestion from a friend. He said, Hey, you you you are a case study as you come back, and there's a lot of vigor, a lot of honesty. And the business that I do uh is about artist booking. So we are a marketplace to book artists. So, what it also means is that I have an access to a lot of interesting people. And by virtue of uh us giving them business, uh, it it makes a very interesting relation. So it's not like a fanboy talking to a celebrity, it is uh talking as equals. And uh during my college days, I used to be on stage doing beatboxing, choreography, and all that stuff. You know, so I've always felt that I'm artist first and uh a college boy who's just you know adding a year in the age, uh in my age count. So Good Gober show came as a suggestion by a friend who is actually into publication business. He said that why don't you kind of bring this, you know, on camera? I just took some time and podcasts have been booming. I was not sure. And you know, more so because during uh bankruptcy, you feel very low. Uh and what really uh gets compromised is your own dignity. You you start feeling very small, very little uh when you think of yourself. So so it took me uh uh some time to gather that courage while I had access to a lot of people. So the moat was there to get people on camera, but I was not sure. So hence I thought, let me just bring in a brand name uh to a show uh which represents me, the small village boy, uh, and who can also do conversation in English. I originally speak uh Hindi. In fact, I come from a state in India called Haryana, which does not have a language of its own, it's a dialect. So I come from that sort of a distance. So this podcast was to uh bring in a lot of honest conversation, uh, and nothing like talking to an artist, because you know, if you see artists go through a lot of sinusodal curves, so they're very close to the journey. They they kind of go through the high, very low of insecurity, then there's a big hit. Uh the so I found that you know, if I have to communicate about a journey of comeback uh that anybody can do, nothing like coming from artists because it also ensures uh good eyeballs on on YouTube. So it all came together. So a name which means that we can make good out of shit. That's good gober, access to artists. So it it became a personal expression, it also became a good marketing voice for the business that I do. Um and uh yeah, and more we've been doing, uh, more and more interesting people, non-artists have also been uh joining in. So uh yeah, so that's how uh podcasts happened. So it's just two and a half years old, less than two and a half years old, in fact, of a podcast. And uh yeah, I still to be honest, I don't introduce myself as a podcaster as yet, if I can tell you. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

So going through bankruptcy was humbling. And you had a suggestion from a friend to start this thing. You have this moat of people to talk to, but you weren't sure. But then you thought to, you know what, let's just do it anyway. And you thought of good goobar, good shit, which, if I'm understanding correctly, is kind of saying uh finding the good in the bad. Is it a perspective? It's a perspective thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

It's kind of that. Uh, it has sort of evolved in this last two, two and a half years, uh, which is so the podcast now has an arc of finding possibility in pain. You know, so so what I do now is a conversation around topic that might be bothering an individual, community, country, uh, class, etc. And then find a person who can represent that pain, who has an academic knowledge, who can do a uh emotionally uh charged up, uh, but yet uh backed with a lot of analytics and data conversation, and get graphically close to the gravity of that problem, and then look at concluding towards a solution. So good shit, good goba. So finding uh, you know, uh uh uh possibilities around the pains that could be bothering around people, and you know, you know how it works. Uh, every and India is a huge country, it's a huge, huge, huge country. Every week there is something that finds front page that is bothering people, correct? So uh so that means the the volume of Gober uh constantly keep uh keep coming in, yeah. And uh and hence the conversations, man. Yeah. So that's the art now, pain to possibility.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

How so your business engaged for more is already connecting with people? It's kind of how you already had that pool to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Uh I mean, from what you're telling me, it doesn't seem like you were looking at it from a marketing perspective at first, but I am curious if how how it integrates with your business now, how that connects, how is it feed to each other? Because I feel like it probably would really easily.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah. So Genita has done amazing, amazing work, a lot more than I actually expected, you know. Uh, so first I'll talk about myself. So the personal brand has uh given a very powerful projection now. Uh uh, so much so uh because of the podcast, there is a recall. I have also turned a motivation speaker. So uh it's a new chapter in my life. Yeah. Uh also what happens is uh when I'm going for new hiring, when people look at the founder being so expressive and has a story and is so candid and can do uh you know such humble conversation uh with so much of an honesty, I see the the the volume of students that turn up in business schools to join in our company, number of resumes that come in. Uh so my personal brand, uh so it it has on a funny way, you know, it has also become like a retirement plan for me. So tomorrow I can switch to a full-fledged podcaster, a speaker, or maybe an author. Uh but coming to the company, say, look at the business from two sides. So there is a demand side and there is a supply side. Uh the supply side is the artist pool. I do six different practices of artists. So there's speaking, comedy, music, DJ, uh, etc., etc. And on the demand side, uh, there is coppet buyer, uh, and there are buyers for uh, you know, social events like weddings, birthdays, anniversaries, et cetera. And third is these colleges, business school, et cetera, et cetera. So what happens when a buyer is looking at finding an artist booking platform? So they will see my competitors largely just operating as an aggregator, as a broker, as a deal makers, correct? But when they see a podcast, when they see a podcast expression of the company, when the founder himself is sitting with that celebrity for about two and a half hours, so A, it just enhances the trust level because they're dealing in uh such a big uh ticket buying. Uh, and imagine somebody could lose a job if they don't get this right. The amount of trust jump, trust enhancement uh to pay us advance and trusting that the celebrity would pop up on the event, it takes it to a very different level altogether. Apart from the trust, what happens is when I'm, you know, when I'm preparing for a conversation with, say, a motivation speaker, say an actor or say cricketer. Uh, cricket is a sports which is most popular in India. Now imagine for a podcast and you you're doing podcasts yourself, you're preparing uh it so well. Uh think of what goes behind you know preparing for a podcast, especially for a long format conversation. So a week of a preparation, reading somebody's lifeline, dissecting uh you know, sizes of life, and then looking at what do you use that for a conversation that can get you eyeballs, it also becomes an unparalleled research and development. You know, it's it's amount of analysis that we do of an individual. So the way that personality can be engaged in an event, there is nobody uh in our competition talking in those many ways or those many interesting ways, if I can say, because you're testing those concepts on the internet. And internet is very honest and very, very brutal. You're getting it. So so from the from the from the demand side of it, they they get that high level of confidence, they get that uh great deal of uh uh you know research coming in because my people then can use the the uh transcript from the podcast, which we write in the bio and train our people. And uh last but not the least, you know, most important is the money part of it. So what happens when you have become so, if I can use the word intimate with the uh with the with the celebrity, it then further translates into the way they deal with my team. And it then translates into the touch points wherein the client is also coordinating. So we do not then uh you know, we we don't operate just as a broker, but we also operate as a stakeholder in their marketing, in building their brand. So from the both sides of it, be it uh, you know, uh uh um, you know, sorry. So first I covered the employee side of it. Now it is the the demand side of it, which is client side. And now what happens on the artist side, when they see us that we are putting so much of an effort, uh, so much of work, so much of a conversation, and then marketing, we just get a very different kind of a participation from the artist or the manager itself. Uh, we so that gives us uh uh a booking uh response, uh better holding of the date, better price, and better coordination doing this. And uh something that I was just not expecting. Now a lot of speakers we have started signing up exclusively because otherwise we were largely just a broker, correct? But now they see us that there's a marketplace, but there's also a mark, you know, uh marketing uh effort that's coming in and and putting all this, uh, it makes a huge uh sense for a motivation speaker to just come on board. So we signed up some really finest uh guys in in India as exclusive talent over here. So, you know, I I can't be happier. Uh it's it's a lot more than I expected. It's magical what a podcast can do for a business if you get the the framework right.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

So it's hitting from both sides. You're building this brand that is more visible, and because of that, it's more trustworthy than just this broker. They see you actually talking to these people that they potentially want to bring into these events, and they see that they trust you more, and on you are being trusted more by like the artist as well. Because they like how much research and development you're building this connection because you actually did the time to get to know them and see what's there. And then, of course, you know, it's all public in a way that looks really good and professional, and so it's creating this good synergy where it's just like, hey, I'm already connected with these people, these people like me, those people, the people you're trying to sell to, see you connecting with those people. It's just like obviously, of course, I want to talk to Nashant. So, Sean actually already knows the artist, and I that conversation they had in that one podcast episode was really good, and that's exactly why I wanted the artist anyway, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah, it does. So I was uh part of a bank called Stanichart Bank. I'm not sure if in America you would know this brand, but in uh Asia and Africa, they're one of the biggest uh multinational banks. So there I was part of corporate affairs, and what we were taught there is that there is this like dice of stakeholders. So you got this employee, customers, clients, media, uh uh uh uh uh community, uh, etc. You know, so if a podcast or any marketing expression can tine these critical stakeholders for you, then you can keep rolling the dice, you know. So for me, my employees, my artists, and clients, these three are very important, of course. I and my personal brand as well. So I've got these four faces. So I for me, these four boxes, uh, they're playing out very well, and they're just enhancing and talking to each other. Uh and uh and also what happens in a podcast, uh Kenny, I'm possibly uh preempting some of your upcoming questions, but I'm just in a flow. Uh, you know, a podcast, uh, say about an hour long of a conversation can also create a lot of short snippets as well. So, what it means is that it allows you to be there uh in a format like a YouTube, which is a long format, uh, or a Spotify uh in Apple Podcasts, but also on an Instagram, also in uh YouTube Shots. So, what it does, the 30 plus age group of a corporate is also seeing us, a larger audience is also seeing us, and this new entrant guy in you know Instagram is also seeing us. So you imagine the the age spectrum, and you can play around with the content to do this. So, so on the client side of it as well, uh, you can play with the medium and message to make it very, very inclusive. Uh so uh it's it's amazing how you can uh toggle around the format uh for doing these tick boxes with stakeholders.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Making use of the different quick one and then back to the episode. If you're a founder with a show that's already handed off to a freelancer, an editor, a team, but you're still chasing down files, approving clips, and keeping things on schedule, stop that now. That's not your job. You're supposed to be working on the business. The podcast is supposed to help feed the business. Propod Concierge, you record, we handle the rest. Right now we're taking on a handful of founders for a full free month. In exchange, all we ask honest feedback or testimonial if we knock it out of the park. If that's too much of a commitment for you, we can start with one episode. And if you like that, we can move to a full free month. After that month, if you want to continue with paid, that's up to you. It's not required. Now, this isn't for everyone. If you are editing yourself still and you just want to delegate this out to a cheap editor, skip this. Only a handful of seats are available. Once we run out of seats, you will be put on a wait list. If you're interested, go to propyconciers.com and apply or hit the link in the show notes. Now back to the episode. Yeah. Because of just this one piece of content, it has so many different ways you can repurpose it. Yeah. Can you give me a specific example of how you say a specific example of how you know, okay, it was exactly the podcast that led to a client or an artist's connection that maybe the one that surprised you.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

Actually, the couple, because uh I did not know how podcasts really play out. So not knowing actually helped me a lot. Uh uh, you know, what I'm seeing, especially in the last eight, nine months or so, is that you do a sincere job of research, preparing good questions, do a graceful conversation and go deep and do a right, sincere, owning up the promise of the podcast. Besides what I spoke just now, you're also getting into the network of the person whom you interviewed. So, seven months back, I did a podcast with uh a gentleman by name Anand Neil Canton. Okay, he's a massive author. Uh, there is one blockbuster movie from India uh called Bahu Bali. Yeah, so he's the author of Bahu Bali. Coincidentally, I have a little identity crisis as an individual. My father was in Indian Navy, so I was born in the southern coast of India. Uh, but originally I hailed from the north part of India, but these two places are very different culturally, very, very different culturally. And and I have always been thinking that why my ancestral side of it, the north side of it, does not understand south, and the south does not understand north. So with Anand, I did kind of a debate, and parallel, there was this conversation going on in India that each state should have three languages. So we have English, we have Hindi, which is a national language, and there's one state-level language. So we got this interesting thing going on. He thankfully agreed that we can do a debate, and of course, I knew that I will be defeated, but I really wanted the topic to come out that this is the pain between community, and this needs to have a possibility. So, what happened, Kenny, is that video went viral, and we hit like a million, in fact, 1.4 million as we speak now. And that podcast has been seen by my clients, by uh Arn's uh family and the southern movie industry directors, actors, also the biggest authors of the nation, etc. etc. So now what is happening is I can pick up a call and reach out to possibly one of the toughest authors, writers, producers, directors, and possibly actors because they see a tough conversation being done so well, and and they just uh you getting what I'm saying? That the power of network that it plays out is immense. And likewise, there's another podcast I did on cybercrime, these whole cyber frauds that happened. Uh, so that one did about a point six million something. Uh and uh the gentleman who okay, so Anand now is my exclusive talent, by the way. So he was so happy with the conversation. You know, so he was my first exclusive uh uh yeah, and with that now I'm adding a lot many more authors. The second one was with a cybercrime investigator. Cybercrime investigator. The you know, imagine a person who's just dealing every day on how people are doing crime in a bank, in a corporate, in individuals, etc. Uh, it was a tough podcast for me again, but went viral. And uh India's one of the biggest producers did an Amazon Prime series on these gentlemen's stories. Okay, and of course, he has seen uh that podcast as well. Now that has helped me to gate crash a very difficult, very high fence ecosystem altogether. So he's with us. Uh, you know, uh Amit Dubay is the name of the gentleman, and uh we've been working now. Imagine now we are able to get into the tech space, the AI tech space. Uh, and through that, we are also able to get into uh Indian Institute of Science. We are able to get into Isro, Isro is an equivalent to NASA in India. So because you're now talking to people in technology. So the way, and you know, it does not happen with every podcast, I'll be very honest. You know, it's it's like a uh you never know which what will work. And and there are podcasts when you work so hard, so much of work. There could be several reasons. Like day before yesterday, we released a podcast on psychiatric drugs in US, uh, which the pig pharma companies are trying to push into India. I was hoping it to go viral and suddenly overnight uh some insane views to happen. But there's a massive student protest being getting planned in India right now. So it has just overshadowed completely. So I've not even hit a 10,000 buck as yet. So uh yeah, so I think these are the two examples that I uh uh could quote. And then there are more and more such uh uh uh now I'm getting inbound requests now. Uh I I I'll I'll share I'll show something. Uh can you see that these that tree uh of like a tree kind of a structure? Yes. Yeah, these are actually book trees. Oh yeah, and some 50 of those books, they're about 200 something, are actually authors who are now sending me books to read, okay, review, and possibly get them on the podcast because of one podcast with an author going going viral. So it can change the way the world sees you. Imagine uh I never scored more than 60% in languages. So I'm not a good reader, I'm not a good writer either. But today, authors are writing in, sending career, and uh requesting if if you know they can be uh and publishing companies are writing, so it's it can change. So I hope I'm answering your question.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Yes, you're answering my question. Like you were getting accessed to specific be a one person in a great conversation, in a great connection, you are now getting access to their network. Yeah. So you got like the cybersecurity guy, and now you the people from that niche see your episode, and he's connecting you with people from that niche as well as the author. And now there's one person who wasn't exclusively with you now because of that conversation. And now you're getting more more authors like, Hey, I want to get on the show too. That episode was really good, yeah. And it's just just growing that and also giving opportunities for engage for more, of course.

SPEAKER_00 24:33

Yes, indeed. So it it all boils it. So the whole funnel eventually comes to engage for more. This is where we make money, and about nine months or so, we've turned uh, you know, it's uh the channel is monetizing, so it has also become a uh revenue stream. We can do a longer conversation on that. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

If the show disappeared tomorrow, what would okay?

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Big reaction. Okay, okay, okay, bring it out.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Well, if the show disappeared tomorrow, what would the business actually lose?

SPEAKER_00 25:04

I think it'll be just one more story. Uh see, I've come through an extremely harsh, extremely, extremely harsh uh uh condition. So losing a show, uh, I think I can rebuild it uh because uh there is an equity, uh, there is a community, there's content, there is uh science, there is SOP, uh, there's a team, there's a cadence, there's a rhythm, there's a way, there is a gut feeling. Uh so uh what we achieved in two years, I think uh we should be able to reclaim that in in a much quicker time. Uh, you know, and thankfully, like I said, there are other platforms. So there's a Spotify, there is uh there is Apple Podcasts, and uh yeah, so I think I I'm hoping and praying something like this does not happen. Uh yeah, but it's a good go by show, so anything can happen.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Ah, thank you be okay. Yeah. Now, there's all this synergy between your business and the podcast right now. And as I thought earlier, you based on what you were saying, it wasn't intentionally for that to begin with. Was that is that true? Or were you always thinking maybe this could help the business too?

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Uh I was not sure, I'll be very honest. Uh, because the I I didn't know a lot of answers to questions. Like, and the biggest question was, can I really pull this off? And especially in a state of mind which is so fragile and so low. Uh, so that itself, so for me, it was uh, I was like, let's just do it. So I worked on this whole, let's just bank a few episodes, let's see how it goes. Uh, because uh the safe play for me was that let me record four or five of these episodes and see how it comes and then put it. I can't really summarize uh how did I make a list of the benefits we would gain out of this as such. Uh, but what I can certainly say, a banking exercise uh helped me to gain a confidence that we should do it. Something nice will come out of it because you feel it, you know, because you when you sit with four or five people and do this kind of a work, you kind of gain a feeling that you are in a you're doing something right. You see the brightness in the eyes of your employees who are working in the background, you see the love, warmth with the artist. And I think then it's up to you how you kind of which direction do you take? How do you monetize and how you deliver it? So uh I can't say that I was smart enough and I got the bullet points ready very early on.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Uh, but banking really helped me. So you just you really just wanted to try to see what happened.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't tell you, Kenny. The first episode, okay, first first interview when I was doing, okay, uh, it was all AC, some 18 degrees Celsius, and I'm and I have sinus, so I can't just handle cold. But I was just feeling so nervous, I said, okay, let me just and my my first guest was from Africa, Paddy Upton. He was the mental coach for Indian cricket team. So for him, I had to do so. Imagine I'm kind of shivering, okay. But if I can tell you very candidly, I was so nervous, so nervous. I I had I literally squeezed my butts, okay. And they were, I could feel the sweat was going down all the way down to my seat because I had never done it. I had never done it. And 18 degrees, I was sweating. So, this how unsure I was uh when I did my first first uh episode.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

I was nervous in my first episode, and I get a tiny bit of nerves every time I'm about to start a new one, but it's getting better.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

I can see that I can see that you're very calm, though. Your pauses are very confident and very deep.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

Thank you. I appreciate that. Now, I already had a pool of people kind of to actually go to, right? When you even started the podcast, and so that helps get momentum in the beginning, right? Yeah, I was curious if you had any advice or a way that someone who doesn't have that pool could get access to like these higher status people to like get themselves going in that direction.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Yeah, so uh very good question. Uh, in fact, uh, if I can attempt to summarize, and this is where I gain confidence from here on, how much I need to rely on big names versus a good conversation. My suggestion to anybody who does not have access to big names, popular names visible on the internet, don't get worried about it at all. An An Neal content was not a visible name. Likewise, Amit Dube was not a visible name. So they are not celebrities, if you see. Both the names I'm spoken of. Both the names. And what this also did is because they have not been so much out there as big people, they came sincere for the conversation. They respected the platform, they respected my time as well, versus if it was a really big guy uh coming on onto the show. So, what I would suggest is go deep, put a structure, make it natural, your style, the way you speak to your friends. Solve a problem, make it somebody's worth their time. A big name is not really, really important. In fact, what happens in the in the initial phase, because you're not so geared up and you're not so fluid with your questions, your pauses, your structuring, you know, it comes over a period of time. I think you may waste big names in the beginning. You would rather wait, uh, you know, do at least six, eight interviews, bank your content, don't, you know, produce and publish. Sit on the edit table, just look at how it is going and uh go deep in the conversation. And uh don't rely on AI because there's so much of AI slot floating around. Don't do garbage in, garbage out. People are smart enough, algorithms understand it's not fresh. So just do your conversation with people who can give you time with patience, and don't get like, don't, don't get worried about names at all. At all.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

So don't get worried about big names. Get people that help you have a conversation that solve a problem, but most importantly, go deep. Yeah, do your research, have a natural conversation so that you're putting out value into the world. Yeah. Because some of the people you're talking to aren't big names, but those videos were valuable conversations that led to bigger things. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Can you say the last line again?

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Some of the people you talked to weren't big names, but they were valuable conversations that led to valuable videos that led to bigger things.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Yes, yes, of course. Of course. My biggest videos are uh with uh not so famous people. My biggest videos. So if I put say 52 episodes and most watched, uh the top six are not like the the last four, one was with an environmentalist, it was his first ever podcast appearance. First ever. But this gentleman had won cases against the government of India. He was so fearless by nature, and he could say that on camera. And because he's fought cases, he could share his thoughts. Imagine, in a way that he could win in the Supreme Court of India that to against the government of India. Imagine how valuable that quality of a conversation or answers is. That is more important. And that video, despite all this big protest, is still gaining traction. Yeah, there's another gentleman who could not speak Hindi or English so well, but he restores pawns. He just restores ponds and he works on urban flooding as a concept. It's only the northern part of India knows about him, that twin villages. Completely unknown guy. But the way he spoke about ponds across the country, pond as a concept across the world, it was so valuable, so distinguished, so virgin of a conversation. It just added so uh just don't worry about uh just go with deep people, you know, people who've been sincere. People who are sincere, people who can express their time and energy and be they're not conscious of that they're under, you know, in front of a camera. They're just not so conscious. That they're just they've got so much to share, you know. So get those people on on the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Not that big names don't have value, but you're saying there is a lot of leverage in people who just have a very strong point of view or strong expertise or knowledge in a certain thing. And then going deep in a conversation with those people can be the most valuable conversations and podcasts.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Yeah. Yeah. So there's another aspect I have to share over here. Uh, in my ways, I've been trying to understand that why people watch internet, especially podcasts. Uh, and there is this version that I would like to share with you is that A, people are seeking a tilt in life because there's so much happening around, it's overwhelming. The amount of information that's around us, it's unprecedented. Ten years ago, this was not the case. You know, you sit with the internet some half an hour, 45 minutes, the amount of information that hits your brain, you know, in long format, short format, or the micro, micro, super micro level, it's it's just overwhelming. So people are also looking at a conversation that can help them gain a tilt or gain confidence or validate the tilt that they have. So, all the more reason you need to have a person who's so detailed, so deep. And they may have a view which may not be very popular. And they can always be, you know, they can always be a counterview to this. That's fine, you know. But somebody is seeking a piece of information, a content that helps them to guide their intellectual ecosystem towards summarizing in their head about a concept, about a principle, about a value, about a behavior, about a virtue, whatever or logic. Help them. You know, that can only happen when somebody has a tilt. Somebody who's crossed past that, past that journey. Yeah. So that is my way of doing it. So uh this is this is my tilt so far on how you know how people consume content.

SPEAKER_01 35:30

Explain what you mean by tilts, because I think I was following, but I'm curious on what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Sure, sure. So tilt is imagine there is a concept uh of say way of doing thing. Okay, so whether it's a government, whether it's religion, whether it is uh a personal behavior, whether it is a business formula, whether it is a policy, etc., etc., there's always a this side and the other side. Yeah, then the world is divided always. And uh there is not uh and and and the larger world operates in the gray. So there's a black, white, and a gray. Most of us are in gray. But somewhere, what we try to do is to find is that instead of a gray, are we on this side, are we on this side? Like if it's if there are these two sides to this, correct? Because we are we are we are oven, we are puzzled, we are fuzzy, we we are not confident of where it should conclude, where it should kind of get summarized. How do you, what point it is proving in my own head? So so so that tilt is coming, correct? It it helps you to be comfortable with all this garbage and to say, hey, you know what? I've understood this. So, so so people are so that's the word tilt I'm saying. So it is it is just moving, so it's not sitting in the center, it's not extreme right, but finding that which side it is and where that I need to be, where me fit well, where I am comfortable, confident, and finding it right, virtuous, whatever you call it. But this is I'm I'm comfortable. I'm I'm here. Am I making sense?

SPEAKER_01 37:04

Yes, I'm following now. So you really look for guests that can bring in that tilt because that guest has a tilt, they can go deep in that direction. And you are a believer in how people are, you know, there's all this information, and people want to be able to get clear and clean enough information to be able to finally have their own stand or opinion on certain things. Yeah, I get that, and makes for better content when there's a clarity of focus in a certain direction as well. Because I mean, the vision. One people more some people are gonna be like, Yeah, I get that. I understand it, I'm behind it. Some people are like, uh no, I don't agree with that. And that's just the comment section.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

Oh, that and that helps, you know. So tilt helps, although further, because even if people don't liken the comment, your podcasts tend to gain a lot more engagement. Yes. So there are conversations wherein we've we've received hate comments because then also in my show, I take little, like I said, tilted people, correct? So they they kind of bring in a view which is sharper, deeper, and little kind of tilting towards side. But eventually, if podcasts, you need to get two eyeballs, you need to get those counterviews. And we've actually done podcasts in a theme that we identified from a comment section. I'll give you an example. Uh, LGBT community. I've done three podcasts so far. One was uh with uh uh uh, you know, uh a lesbian, okay, and uh the number of unfollowers that happened and the hate comment came was very interesting. Like I was like, wow, it tells me how people still think. Okay. Then I did another podcast with a person uh dealing with gender fluidity. So during the daytime, the person feels like a boy, in the evening, like a girl, and it switches, like, and there's no fixed pattern too, but it's you kind of and then people are saying, boss, what are you doing? You're talking to lesbian, you're talking to gender fluidity, is there a solution or not? So the third podcast that I did was with a plastic surgeon who helps do a gender change through plastic surgery and through hormonal changes, you know. So uh, so and but through the comment section, uh, and and the people who wrote to me one-on-one. Uh, and it's it's so responsible as a podcaster that you read and you read into it, you get the signal. At times, people don't write explicitly, right? You have to kind of feel it. Because there's a context that you said, there's a conversation you made, and people are writing. And you know, the comments are very, very different when they write in public versus what they write to you one-on-one. And because I'm I'm there on LinkedIn, people also find my email ID, WhatsApp, all of this. I get all kinds of comments coming in. So if we can also carry the responsibility to be then holding it further. Uh, and what this does, it builds such a powerful community. There is an anticipation, the respect, the stickiness that you have. The community gets just better, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Very uh typical. And you were talking about how you've made all this made all this growth. Like you you're at like a hundred thousand subscribers over what two years of this show and what 50s, 60 episodes, something around there.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Yeah, 501. Thank you so much. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Now, my audience does isn't always necessarily trying to look for views, they're maybe looking for clients or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

But I'm curious if you could, if you, if you know how exactly, or what do you believe is the number one reason you were able to grow your I think I think A, I I appreciated my pain uh in a very honest way and decided to express it through conversation that has given a lot of wider possibility, uh a sustained, candid. So it's it's you know, the whole energy coming from deep within because of the experiences I have gone through. And when I carry this candid, honest uh way of reaching out to people or in conversation, it just I think it it it just then it's multiplies. And like I mentioned earlier, then there's a network play. So now I think I'm in this second gear uh into this wherein now the network is kind of playing out. Uh, but the initial threshold, the escape velocity is where the trick is. So if you can find uh your own way of doing this, your own way of doing conversation, uh, that itself is uh uh is is a is a big reason. Because if you don't do that, imagine what you're doing is you're kind of mimicking something already there, and then people don't follow you, correct? Uh people are smart enough, internet is smart enough, algorithm understands what you're doing, correct? You're just creating a copycat. So if you can find a more honest candid, and I understand it's tricky for a B2B space. I'm in B2B space, right? Uh, but I I think people are smart enough to find the theme, the sense, the sincerity, etc. So if one can find its own DNA, the genetic code, the fingerprint, and just own that space. And one thing that I tell myself always uh is that the path, or I would say the journey will show you the path forward. You know, with your headlight on, you can only see maybe 20, 30 meters down, correct? Once you go there, then you'll know okay, it's right, left, up, down, whatever. So just get going, owning your identifying owning your own path, your genetical code, and you'll find your way as you take on this journey.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

So finding your own genetic code, meaning essentially your way of doing things in this space that is unique to you, that is authentic, that is generally, you know, honest, so that when people come across you, they see, oh, this is different. Oh, I get what this is, and they can recognize to either coincide with it or repel because it's not their thing.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

How do you suggest somebody go about building that authenticity and that thing, that thumbprint that will give them that edge?

SPEAKER_00 43:23

See, that's a tough one. Uh, generally, it's a tough one. Uh it's like, you know, when you ask a parent to say, what's so special in your child, and you speak to a 15, 20 years old to say, What is your passion? You'll make, you know, and like, my god, so what is so unique about me? What is uh okay. So the way I'll try giving this answer is the way I look at my guest, read into the lifeline, and then I look at slices of life, and those intense slices of life that can be meaningful for others. So if uh Individual can look at a part of their lifeline, right? It could be business, work, health, family, whatever it could be. Look at those learnings from those slices of life. It could be one such life or maybe multiple ones, but intense slices of life, if being shared, can be helpful. And these slices of light need not to be a blockbuster, mega huge things. Our story, in our own way, if we can say it best, because it's us only who can say it best, just do that. I don't know if I'm making sense, but what I'm saying is think of your defining moments in life. Find your way of expressing, and nothing like through a conversation. If you can find those people with whom you can spend time and can justify that, and just do that on, and it may evolve over a period of time. The so-called, like I was not using pain to possibility in my initial six podcasts. It was just saying Gobert to good, go better to good. But I realized that you know, maybe I would not make sense to people who do not understand the word gobert. That could be a limitation. And then pain to possibility came in. So uh yeah, so just zoom in, zoom in, and it's beautiful. It's like in microscope when you go, the surface may not look that interesting, but when you go nearer, you see those little things moving, and you go nearer, uh, it just gets so amazing, correct? So if you can get that view out and convey through your conversations, through your headshot videos, through your writing on LinkedIn, through your signature, through uh all of it, and all comes together, you know, in business for founder in a in a storytelling. Uh yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Am I am I answering your question? I believe you're saying it's about your details. Defining details. Defining details. So your specific stories, your specific viewpoints, your specific way of asking questions. Yeah. Instead of, you know, trying to copy the next podcast, the details of your life, the details of your guest, who is ideally a tilt in the space that the conversation you're trying to have, going in deep, having that conversation come out, and that will create that edge for you because it's you, right? It's your details, it's that person, it's that person's details. It's going a level deeper, asking. I'm wondering if you were to give an example of like a question you would ask, like, what's like the surface level version, and then what's the like detail question you would ask and that makes that difference and illustrates it?

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Uh, if I'm getting your question right, uh you're asking me to give you two examples. One is a surface level question, yeah, which is a high-level question, uh, in during the course of a podcast, and then uh subsequent question which are like deeper and illustrative, correct? Yes. Okay. Uh so you know it depends on the topic to topic. Uh, I'll give you an example. Uh, if it's mythology in India, most of people know the story. I can then straightaway hit into the the uh more detailed question, or I can like go straight into a more illustrative question or kind of get a direction into this. But one and a half year ago when I did a cybercrime podcast, I kind of got a sense that people may not know the concept. So if I need to establish the concept, I'll stay at the surface. And it could be as simple as like I still remember the question I asked in that podcast was, Amit, can you tell me which crimes come under cybercrime and which do not? So he explained, and then I said the second question was for us to be really doing this conversation, how big it is? And if you can tell me uh the number of cybercrimes and the commercial value that it carries. He answered this. And the the third question was I think that's still you, me, our relatives, friends, etc. Is there any national security level concern uh into this? So the third question that I asked was then on the national security concern this whole context may have. Now, if you see, what I've done is I've actually used three questions, which sets the scale, the intensity. It also establishes a concept that why people should be watching this. Is this really big and important? Then I did one-on-one, people-friendly, et cetera, or people family members, so that they can visualize themselves, their loved ones, and then the nation. And also segregate that how the crime patterns is changing. And this is where he answered that gone are the days when you'll necessarily take a gun, shoot people and money. Now that you can do it through remotely, through a tech, etc., why it is happening. And so I think so it it is a it's a play, Kenny, about the concept uh per se. Like the recent podcast which I did on psychiatric drugs, so in US. So I picked up Linsei Cliency case as a takeoff. But knowing that not everybody in India would know about Linsei Cliency, I created a panel of that in India, something that made news. And to that, another example, which was like an insurance that people understand what am I talking about. And in that, then the uh uh the second piece was there are certain drugs that are branded differently in US, but they have a different name in India. So so if I'm answering your question right, I think uh it is so much about the topic and the way audiences would identify the ownership is on you, the way you build the context. So, what I do is I do not jump onto the questioning right away. I have created like a style for uh podcast sequence. So there is a promo that kind of sensationalizes, like, oh my god, what's it's like a Netflix sort of style. Then I do about a two to three minutes of an introduction without the guest being shown on the camera, setting up the tone, uh, because I pick up topics which are a little offbeat, like this porn thing that I spoke about, north versus south, this whole uh psychiatric drug. So it needs a context setting per se. So the promo creates this, okay, let's watch what's there. That I do this piece, and then what I do is I kind of reduce the pressure of should I be asking this question or that question to the guest? So I so the context setting and teasing has been done. And then I look at as per the topic. Uh, did I answer your question?

SPEAKER_01 50:55

So what I'm hearing is that especially if it's something that maybe not everyone understands, you finally get like the concept first.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Then you ask questions or give details that make it relatable to the audience, it specifically will affect them, or maybe even affects most people. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if in a different way of looking at it and trying to find um ways of going deep is thinking of it the concept first, and then telling a story specific within that concept, like giving those examples.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

Yeah. Stories help. Stories help. Stories really help. So if you can make it anecdotal, uh show faces, talk about a news that people can understand. So there's a very quick uptake of people understanding it. That that really helps. That really, really helps. I also do chapters creation. So looking at the topic, I do multiple formats. So AI will do like a four or five block structure. Like I'm doing an AI uh uh founder podcast uh on AI, and I realized that there is already so much of happening on AI. So I have created like the first block to say, let's do a let's get calm segment, which is like five sensational news in AI, and to say how that person can make it, you know, desensationalize the the media out of it and say this is what it really needs, you know. And the second segment is how not to use AI. Okay. So so now depending on the topic, you see, you you you do that work and see how you can make it interesting. Because you are also then taking the podcast in an extremely cluttered space. Because if it is, say AI, imagine the amount of videos out there on the topic of AI. So, how is your conversation different from the huge volume of conversation already floating around? So the title and going the contrarian way, like how not to use AI. Like you would not find many videos on how not to use AI, you know, uh, and then how to deal with their AI-obsessed boss or AI obsessed judia, you know, who's just making the data so vulnerable, just throwing every detail of the company out there on AI, etc. Or the boss says, Oh my god, why are you so slow? Why are you not using this tool, that-da-da-da-da-da? So, so I think more than the detail and this, of course, that you kind of build the narrative, you get the god audiences long. But a lot can be done with the way you visualize. Like you could do chapters, like how you have Harry Potter stories and you have chapters to say now we are moving to this chapter, or say one leading to another, or say context setting, graphic detail coming out, and then conclusion. So I think you can experiment, be a little flexible about the topic uh that you're dealing with.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

Yeah. I think we've got a lot here. Um, is there anything else you wanted to mention or talk about that we haven't yet?

SPEAKER_00 54:04

I think uh you should definitely ask that. You know, one of the big questions that a founder should always think is that how much of time he or she is spending on a podcast versus the main business. Uh because this can really absorb you more than you imagine. Uh you know, it can play a lot on your mind. You might be thinking of people, preparation. And the worst thing that I had to really manage in my own head is to get up in the morning instead of checking my my uh uh you know balance sheet or the number of queries, leads, closure, money tracker of the company. I'm looking at the subscriber-based views and monetization on YouTube. You getting it? So so there is a point wherein this can become also very distracting. So person should know uh what is the extent to which they should be committed uh from a time-wise, intellectually, financially, also, uh, because podcasts can also demand money, travel. Uh and there's a quite a lot of coordination. And uh, so there is a time that goes into preparation, but there is a huge amount of time that goes into post-edit. A promo discussion can have like three, four rounds, you know, and then there's disclaimers, uh, then there is this uh music rights, then there is a lot that get into uh uh podcast, you know, and especially if you're aspiring for more and more views and uh subscribe. People do judge a channel by the number of subscriber views, uh, etc. You know, so you wish to uh make it look big. So I think uh so that's one thing that is very important for somebody to know.

SPEAKER_01 55:50

How did you transition from focusing too much on a podcast back to actually making sure you're focused on a business?

SPEAKER_00 55:57

So it's a bit tricky, I'll tell you. Uh uh why it's tricky, one of the biggest reasons is you do not necessarily get, like if I'm releasing two videos a month, there's a month when I'm not shooting at all. And then there's a month when I'm shooting like back to back. Because uh so for me, that's the trickiest part. Uh also because you have to have a bank in place. You also need to have a cadence with your production team, your team that is working on. So, how I have managed so far is to restricting the frequency, restricting the budget, restricting uh the duration of shoot, uh, these two, three parameters. But the frequency has really helped. So uh typically, uh full-time podcasters in India, like big ones, are doing at least eight releases a month, you know, or maybe more for that matter. I'm just doing two. So, so A, I do not compare myself with podcaster because the bigger objective is something else altogether. So uh the gear switch may happen after two years, three years, four years, where I have a business head uh, you know, who can run so the business can run in my business. But today, right now, I'm owning that responsibility. So maintaining it to two and then the ecosystem being restricted to that, and then perform within this boundary, uh, is is the game. That's how I have managed.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Sure, you capped yourself at a manageable place and keeping it capped so that yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, Nishant, final question. Yes. In 60 seconds or less, for the founder podcaster listening, if they wanted to find their tilt going into the next episode, what's the one thing they should do to do that?

SPEAKER_00 57:44

Can you help me understand this better?

SPEAKER_01 57:46

So we talked about, yeah, it's fine. Uh so we talked about how important the the the tilt is, right? Finding that and being able to go deep into a certain what if founder podcaster wanted to replicate that so that they can have more valuable, deep conversations? What's the one thing they should focus on to and able to achieve that going into their next episode?

SPEAKER_00 58:07

Okay, okay. So for your podcast is what you're saying, correct?

SPEAKER_01 58:11

No, not well. I mean, I want to learn, sure, but for anybody listening right now, like my my viewer listening, the founder podcast or listening, I want to have a practical way of going about it, one thing to focus on going into the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 58:26

I think uh I would say something which might be applicable to the very next or subsequent podcast, is that know the promise of your podcast and own that space. Just own that space. And owning that space is by know your boundary, but within the boundary, go very, very, very, very deep. And as you go deep, the world is very, very beautiful. You'll be surprised by the details that come out your way and the way they will make your every podcast look very, very rich. So know your boundary, know your promise, but go deep and enjoy the depth and the the beauty uh down there.

SPEAKER_01 59:12

Thank you so much for being on the show in this show. Uh a lot of good information here. Um, some things I need to think about and start applying as well. Appreciate you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

Pleasure, pleasure. All mine, Kenny. And I uh see a lot of sincere effort, right? From your initial outreach to the way you were there of the link while I was 10 minutes late. Uh the patiently that you conducted. So it's a great sign of an individual, not just as a podcaster. So thank you for having me here. And uh my best wishes, I am looking forward to this, you know, seeing myself the other side of the fence on your show. Sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:50

All right. Yeah. That being said, this has been the Founder Podcast Lab. See you guys in the next episode.