Unveiling the Influencer Marketing World: Key Insights from Justin Moore

Justin Moore [00:00:00]:
You.

Chris Stone [00:00:01]:
Ladies and gentlemen, would you please welcome to Dealcaster Sponsorship Coach, founder of Creator Wizard, which is a school and community that teaches you how to find and negotiate your dream brand deal so that you can stop leaving thousands on the table. Mr. Justin Moore. Welcome to the show. He's got the light flat. Let's go.

Justin Moore [00:00:23]:
You know what? After that does intro, I turned on the strobe back here because I was like, I can't come on with like, really Las Vegas. I can't come on with that energy. I got to feel like I'm in a club right now, but I'll go back to this. Just the normal lights. But yeah, that was Amazon.

Chris Stone [00:00:44]:
It's all about pattern interrupts, right? Getting people's attention, like, oh, look at me, I'm on your page. Come over and watch my live stream. So, hey, whatever you're comfortable with, man.

Justin Moore [00:00:53]:
And the Led light strips are in the carousel. No, I'm just kidding, man.

Chris Stone [00:01:00]:
Thank you so much. I know you have a ton of stuff going on, and I know you're speaking soon at CEX, and there's a lot of stuff going on in your world, as there always is. But I'm glad we could coordinate this and have you aboard, because I really think what you're doing right now as a sponsorship coach, is providing so much value to the creator community. And I think I'm sure you would agree right now it's almost more important than ever, right? Because the quantity of all these creators is just going up and up.

Justin Moore [00:01:34]:
Yeah. You know, the interesting thing? I was looking at some research while I was pulling together my presentation for CEX, and I was just pretty amazed at some of the studies that have been done recently that talk about the percentage of income or the percentage of creators who derive their largest bucket of income in their business from sponsorships. Right. I think that when you're starting out as a creator, it's the most obvious way that you think about to monetize. Right? It's like, okay, this brand will they're going to email me and they're going to say, hey, we're going to pay you $500 and talk about you on our live stream or talk about you on your YouTube or Instagram or whatever. Right. And so it's just like it's a very simple thing to understand as kind of the first way that you monetize oftentimes. Yes, affiliate marketing. But it's really that prize kind of like, hey, I'm going to pay you $500. It's like a flat fee. It's not dependent on performance. Right. And so I was just really surprised. There were two studies that I looked at recently. One that said that 66% of creators say that brand deal sponsorships are their largest chunk of income. And then another one with a larger sample of about 2000 creators said that 77% of them said that sponsorships is really what drives their business. And so that's why I'm so excited to be in this space helping creators, helping coach creators around this topic because there's just so much money you can make and there's honestly so many mistakes that I see being made. And so I'm excited to kind of bring my expertise and experience to this space.

Jim Fuhs [00:03:04]:
Yeah. So that's actually probably a good place to start. Do you feel like a lot of us think like, oh well, I've got to have this huge following and have all this proof before I can get a sponsorship deal. And so they wait and then they struggle? Or do you think there's a better way about it in getting past, I guess, the mind junk, as Chris likes to say sometimes?

Justin Moore [00:03:25]:
Yeah. And that's what it is. Oftentimes it's mind junk. Because especially I found that oftentimes it was one brand that told you long ago, right? Like you have to have 5000 followers to work with our brand. And then you, in your mind, think like, oh, I guess all brands are like that, right? And then you don't pitch brands, you don't work with brands. And so you have this arbitrary milestone, oh, once I get to 10,000 subscribers or followers or whatever, that's when I'm going to start reaching out to brands. That's when I'm going to be legitimate. That's when I'm going to feel comfortable reaching out and making a pitch and things like that. And so keyword me, right? A lot of it has to do with your own site, like your own imposter syndrome and your own confidence to actually hit send on an email to a brand or sliding in their DMs or whatever. Because what can happen, they ghost you or they say no, which is a vicious cycle. It's like, okay, well that brand doesn't like me, then all these other brands don't like me. And too. And so actually a big part of what I do when I do coaching and my courses and things like that has a lot to do with confidence. It has a lot to do with mindset. It has a lot to do with understanding that if you want to have a sustainable career as a creator and derive a lot of income from sponsorships, you have to have a thick skin. And how do you do that? It's through repetition, it's through going through it. It's through understanding how to craft a compelling pitch so that the brand feels stupid saying no to you. There's just so much that goes into this. But yeah, my major thing is that there's so much more value that you can bring to a brand than just a transaction. Like, oh, I'm going to talk about you on my Amazon Live stream, or like, oh, I'm going to talk about you on my YouTube. That's not the only way you can help brands. A lot of times brands have no idea what they're doing. And so you can come in having this expertise, growing an audience to X thousand people, and then they look at you and they're like, whoa, this person knows what they're doing. So to you, you're comparing yourself to all these other people on social media who are, like, killing it. But it's like in your little niche of the world, in your corner of the universe, there are going to be people, there are going to be brands who are very impressed by what you're doing.

Chris Stone [00:05:22]:
If we could back up a second, because I think it's important that people understand kind of your story and where you've gotten to at this point. I think a lot of people that call themselves coaches or trainers or whatever, you'll find out that they don't actually do what they're coaching and they don't actually carry the bag of what they're working with people doing. You are an influencer. You are someone who has a really cool story of what you and your wife, what you did years ago, to where you got now and how you developed what is now creator wizard and brand deal wizard and all the stuff that you've got going. But I think it's important that people understand, like, you're in the weeds, too. You're learning as it goes. It's not like you're talking to people, but not also doing it. I know there's a question in there somewhere, but I'd love to kind of hear about what you and April did and how it led to what now as creator was.

Justin Moore [00:06:28]:
Okay, of course. So when we started our first YouTube channel in 2009, well, actually, it wasn't me, it was April. It was my wife at the time. She was not my wife. She was my girlfriend fiance, I think, fiance by that time. And so this was think about what was happening in the world in 2009. The top selling phone in the world was the iPhone three G. And then what you would use to call your friends and ask them what time you were going to meet at the movie theater to go see the brand new movie Avatar. And then when you would get home from Avatar, you would pull up your computer to watch the top YouTubers in the world at the time. Ryan higga. Smosh and Fred, right? Okay. So just to give some perspective of how long ago 2009 was, you could not monetize on YouTube. There was no partner program, right? So all the creators who started out like us, it was very much a passion project, right? There was no way in which you could make revenue share from YouTube or whatever. And so in the beginning so initially, my wife had started a beauty and cosmetics channel, and so she was really into that thing. I was over here in my nine to five job. I was in medical devices straight out of school. So completely not in this whole creator space. And so brands started knocking. Initially it was free products like, hey, we'll give you this free beauty product. And she was like, yes. She was like, so stoked, right? And then after that happened for a little while, then we got the first brand who would say, hey, we're actually going to pay you for this. And we were just like, what? You're going to pay us money to talk about us on your platform? This is like 2009, 2010, very early. And so here I am, April. She's like, can you look at this contract for me? I'm like, okay. I was like, in business school. I'm like, I could do this, right? So I'm looking at the contract. No idea what none of us had any idea what we were doing. I just want to be clear. We literally were idiots. We had no idea. We made every mistake in the book, right? And I remember I remember distinctly sharing one of the contracts with our family lawyer, and she was like, what is this? What are you doing on the Internet? What are you trying to do? I blessed her heart. Like, she helped us and stuff, but no one knew. Everyone was getting taken advantage of. No one had any idea we were doing it. So when I say that we have made every mistake in the book, I mean it. We have done hundreds of sponsorships over the last decade, and we've made over $3 million doing it. So this is a major part of the way in which our family, as creators, been doing this full time for eight years now. And so when I say that, I know a thing or two about sponsorships is true. And then the other side of it, which I think is probably one of the most interesting pieces of I guess my skill set is that I've run an influencer marketing agency for about six years, okay? And so that is a completely different side of this, because it's one thing to go to a brand and be like, hey, pay me and my wife like, a couple of $1,000. Talk about your brand. But it's a very different thing to go to a very large media agency or a very large brand and say, hey, pay me $500,000 and I'm going to help you work with 50 creators. Here is the strategy, the 30,000 foot strategy. Here's the platform strategy, the types of things, places we need to be on. Should it be long form video, should it be short form content, should it be podcast, right? So, like, who's the audience demographic? It's a very different pitch. And so that's the other side. So I've helped hundreds of other creators make millions of other dollars through the agency. So I have these two perspectives. And then when I started creating content to educate creators about two years ago under the Creator Wizard moniker, that's the perspective that I came at it with. I was like, look, yeah, there's lots of people out there who are saying, oh, I've been creators. I've gotten brand deals, and that's great. You can do that. But it's really, like, the side of it that I say is like, hey, let me pull back the curtain and tell you this is how it's working behind the scenes. Here's what the brand is saying or the agency is saying about you, and they're not telling you, and here's why they're picking that influencer and not that influencer. And so I think that that's what has really resonated with people. Someone told me recently they DM me and said, I have never heard anyone talk about sponsorships the way that you have. And I think that's really the crux of it, is that I just have a different perspective.

Chris Stone [00:10:34]:
Do you think it's just been why has it been such a secret for us, too? You are one of the few people that I've come across as like, oh, okay, that's how that works. That's how that works. And are publicly coming out with that information. Is that just because everyone thinks, like, I want more for me, and the more I talk about it, maybe it's less for me? Is that what's a part of it.

Justin Moore [00:10:59]:
You think that's 100% what it is? I believe because I think that there is a pervasive mindset of scarcity amongst creators in the creator community generally, because it's like, okay, if they see someone else get a deal, it's like, oh, that's bad for me, man. I'm, like, jealous, right? Here I am being like, no, that's a good thing. That's going to be you next week. Because let me explain to you what happens, okay, when that brand goes over and hires your niche neighbor, okay? My friend Shelley says niche neighbor, right? When they go and hire that person, do they just want to work with that creator from now until the end of time? No, they have to constantly attract new customers, right? So now what they're thinking is, like, I need to go find 50 more people like that, 50 more creators like that that I can partner with. So this is one of the most tactical tips that I can give, is go follow everyone in your niche. Become a known quantity in their comment sections. Cheer them on when they get a sponsorship. Congratulations, right? This is amazing. This is a great partnership for you, right? Because as creators, we all know we have that little piece in our brain where we're a little concerned every time we do a partnership or a sponsorship that people are going to be like, how dare you sell out. Like, you're just trying to get paid and all this stuff. And here you are in the comments being like, Get that bag. You deserve this. You're amazing, right? And so instantly, you're going to differentiate yourself, and they're going to remember that. And so there's a couple of reasons why this is so important. Number one, you are going to start getting familiar with the types of brands who are partnering with creators in your niche. Right. Genius. Right? It's a very easy way to kind of get on their radar. And then the second thing is that when they eventually partner with one of your dream brands, if you've been hyping them up for the last six months, you are not going to feel uncomfortable sending them a DM. Hey, congratulations again about getting this deal. Would you feel comfortable introducing me to the brand? Now? You have to be in the background maintaining a robust social presence. And the other creator needs to feel comfortable that they need to feel comfortable to recommend you to the brand. They're not going to want to recommend some person who's like, that's going to be a knock on my credibility if I recommend this person. But it's an easy thing for them for this creator that you're asking to do because you've been putting in the work.

Chris Stone [00:13:13]:
Amazing. God, thank you so much for clarifying that. And we see that a lot, and not just on brand deal front. Like, there seems to be this underlying sort of competition, especially in the Amazon space. And it's like, listen, this pool is still very shallow in terms of the number of creators that are on this particular platform. And, oh, by the way, Amazon's releasing a gazillion products a day. And my voice is different than Justin's voice is different than Chris P. Giles voice is different than all of these folks. And it's like, let's just do better. Let's just do better content. There's plenty to go around to lift all ships. This goes into. I've got a number of questions, but I'm going to grab this one here from Alex over on LinkedIn. Alex and anyone else who's on these other tubes, come on over to Amazon Dealcasters Live and do this. I think when people are new to this thing and they realize, hey, I like products, I like the things that I have. This question is always something that comes up, I'm new and reaching out to brands. What's step one? Where do I start? Is it just start doing it without contacting a brand so they can see you're using that stuff? Or is it cold calling, which probably does not have a high success rate, but what do you say?

Justin Moore [00:14:39]:
All right, well, first of all, I have a video on this exact subject on my YouTube channel. It's called how to pitch a brand. Start to finish. Okay? And it goes over this in particular. So if you want to go to my YouTube channel, check that out, I highly recommend it. But really, one of the most important things to think about when you really are kind of like starting at scratch, you have nothing to go off of. You've never pitched a brand, you don't know what to say. The first thing and most important, and the easiest thing to do is to start tagging the brand organically on social media. Start talking about them, because a lot of what creators think is like, well, if I talk about the brand organically and they're not paying me, why would they ever hire me? Right? They think that they have this false belief. And what I am here to tell you is that that is the exact opposite of the mindset you should have, because almost every brand wants to partner with people who already have authentic affinity for their brand and product. Not just that. When a brand has a campaign that they're trying to run, there are very specific things that you have to say as part of the partnership. So let's say that some brand sure, we have a bunch of sure products in the stream, right? Mother's Day, Father's Day is coming up. They probably have I'm making this up. They probably have some promotions around that, oh, has your wife ever wanted to start a podcast here's? Promotion, blah, blah. I don't know. I'm making this up. Right? But it's like most brands have stuff like that go to their Facebook page, right? So the reason that they're going to hire Chris and Jim is not because they want to be able to have you say, hey, it's 20% off today. This is a deal. Add it to Cart and check out. Are you going to say that organically when you're talking about the brand on your page? No, you're not going to say that. The other reason that that's so critical is because they need those sound bites of you saying, hey, we love sure, they're amazing. They help our business. Because then they're going to cut your two hour live stream into a 32nd spot that they can run as TrueView on YouTube or as a newsfeed ad on Instagram and Facebook. So there are so many other ways in which the brand can get mileage out of the asset when they partner with you. And so in your mind, this is the number one thing you need to do. I'm getting a little off topic here, but the easiest way to just get your foot in the door and start some of these initial conversations is just start talking about the brand on social media. Because then they'll reach out to you and be like, hey, thanks for tagging us. Boom. Your foot's in the door.

Chris Stone [00:17:11]:
Chris I think we heard this from.

Jim Fuhs [00:17:13]:
Monty last week, didn't we?

Justin Moore [00:17:15]:
Right?

Chris Stone [00:17:15]:
Yeah. Great minds think alike.

Justin Moore [00:17:17]:
Absolutely.

Jim Fuhs [00:17:18]:
Use the product because there's so many people want it given to them. But it's like, why should they give it to you if you have never shown that? Just being a fan.

Justin Moore [00:17:29]:
Right.

Jim Fuhs [00:17:30]:
That is huge in getting that started. And we've had that with another company.

Justin Moore [00:17:36]:
Chris right.

Jim Fuhs [00:17:36]:
They reached out to us because we're always promoting their product, and we never had asked for anything. So I definitely think that that's a critical element in building that. Even that brand awareness. If the brand doesn't know you're using them. And I loved how Moni said, like, when a new product comes out, he'll say, wow, I really like this product. It'd be great to I might talk about it on Amazon sometime. He doesn't say, Send me the product. He just says, I'm going to talk about it.

Justin Moore [00:18:05]:
Well, the other quick note there is that to tell you why this is a thing that brands care about. They actually pay for software tools called social listening software to figure out who's talking about them on social media. So there's like an entire industry of these SaaS tools that cater, that brands and agencies pay for to figure out, hey, who are our influencers in the space already talking about us? Because we want to reach out to them. We want to engage with them. We want to make sure that they want product, we'll send them product. If there's a campaign that's coming up, they're going to be a shoe in for that. So it's like, this is a thing. I'm not making this up, right? Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:18:44]:
And I think one of the misconceptions, too, is like, okay, I really want to work. You mentioned. Sure. Microphones. Right. So we'll use them as an example. We do love sure. We are speaking into shore microphones right now. They're the best. They can use that clip now on their other website. Like you said, Justin, but if we never owned a shore microphone or had sure products and we approached sure, how interested would they be in us? Because we're just going, oh, I really want an SM Seven B microphone, because it's like the broadcast microphone that Justin Moore is using and Joe Rogan and all of these wonderful creators. It's like, sure doesn't need to give.

Justin Moore [00:19:21]:
You a microphone, right?

Chris Stone [00:19:24]:
So use their stuff, and then you are truly an expert on whatever that stuff is. And then the brand seems to be more comfortable in not all brands, but this brand in particular would be more comfortable in working with you. So let me ask you a question here, Justin. I'd love to know what you feel are, like, maybe the top mistake or mistakes that new influencers make. And I also want to kind of maybe have a second part to that question, and that is one of them. They fall in love with that Porch that's full of boxes in Amazon, and they just are like, oh my gosh, look at all the products that I have sent to me. And they're thinking quantity over quality. Is that another sort of aspect?

Justin Moore [00:20:20]:
So I'll be the first one to say that I don't necessarily think that there's anything wrong with getting free products in the beginning. And let me clarify that, because there is an art and science to the way in which you execute a successful partnership with the brand, right? Them sending you the product, you evaluating it, you creating content about it. Potentially, if it's another platform, you're actually sending them a preview of the video before you go live with your YouTube video or whatever it is, right? Then ensuring that they can provide feedback, you provide revisions, you actually go live with it, you invoice them. There's this whole process. I have another video on my channel all about this, about kind of start to finish how the process works. But the reason I say that is because there is something about getting some repetitions under your belt, right? Ensure working out all the kinks, like trying to understand, okay, I want to make sure that when my dream brand reaches out, I don't screw it up. Right? And so this is what I say. I say to people, don't be too hard on yourself. I accepted a free wine fridge the other day, y'all, like not that long ago. I was like, $800 wine fridge? Yes, please. But the difference was that there wasn't a laundry list of talking points, there wasn't a call to action. It was like, hey, they sent us the wine fridge. And yeah, we ultimately included it in one of our YouTube blogs. But it's a very different thing when it's just like a product inclusion versus like, hey, this is a campaign, right? So that's the first thing is that I meet people where they're at. I don't shame people. I do give people a little bit of a tough love sometimes, mainly for sending crappy pitches, but honestly, everyone in the chat is probably going to feel seen because I sent pitches like this too. A lot of people slide into brands DMs and they're like, I love your brand, want to collaborate. That's the pitch. That's the pitch. Right? And so imagine being the brand and receiving that and they're just like delete, right? There's nothing about that that's interesting in any way. Right? And so my courses and a lot of my content is all around this. Like how do you be interesting? How do you create something that actually serves them? Not you? The crux of a lot of what I talk about is like it's not about you. Sorry. When you work with brands, you are the conduit for the brand to actually access a huge pool of prospective customers, your followers. Right? And so it's like having this mindset shift around what is the value that you actually bring to the table? It's a lot more than what you think it is. Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:22:57]:
And I've also found that the higher level, the brand that we've spoken to, the more of an idea of what they have to achieve with it. It's not just, hey, we love your product videos, here's a selection of stuff that we'll send you for nothing. Do some more product videos. It's like a brand that knows what they're doing, says, we're targeting this particular content creator because we want to target this demo with this message as a part of, like you said, of a campaign. So these dream brands. If you don't have your act together, if you're not that comfortable pair of shoes, you respond to them quickly, professionally and make it easier for them. They're not going to be back.

Justin Moore [00:23:47]:
Well, one thing you said in particular I really want to double click on because it's very important, this whole aspect of being responsive. Because let me explain what happens when a brand or an agency decides like, hey, okay, we're going to run an influencer campaign. Okay? So what happens is there was so much work that actually happened before the brand ever reached out to you. So this is what happened. The agency goes and they have a meeting with the brand, and the brand says, we want to be working with influencers. And the agency says, okay. And the brand says, okay, come put together a strategy for us. So the agency goes back, they meet with their internal team. They say, okay, we should be going live on Amazon live, we should be on TikTok, we should be on YouTube, yada, yada, yada. They put together a budget proposal for the brand and then they go back, they have another meeting. The brand says, looks great, we are going to soft green light this strategy. Go find us some influencers that you think would be good fit. They're not going to reach out to you yet. You thought they were. No, not yet. Now the brand says, hey, these are the types of influencers that we think we want to partner with, okay? And so the agency set goes and they start doing their sleuthing, okay? They go around on the internet. They go around and say, okay, we think Jim and Chris will be good dealcasters lives. We think Justin, April and Justin, they're going to be good. Like, let's go and steal right click, steal their profile photo from Google Images. Let's go take their bio from their about section on YouTube. We are going to put that in our proposal that we're going to then go and show the brand. So they do this with 20 other people, 30, 50 other people. Then they go back to the brand and say, hey, we think Bees 2030, 40, 50 influencers will be a good fit for this campaign. And then the brand says, hey, these ten look great, go reach out. Then the agency reaches out to you. So do you see how important that is to understand? There's so much tire kicking that goes on behind the scenes before the brand ever reaches out to you. And do you know what that means is that you need to look at your creator identity, your brand as your resume, because they're going to be taking all of this stuff and putting it in their own pitch deck. And you have no control over what videos they show the brand. You have no control over what links, what profile photo. They could grab some old crappy photo on Google Images. Right? So it's just like doing an audit. This is something I talk in a lot of detail in my content courses and stuff about is like doing an audit of your own creator identity to ensure that when your dream brand is doing the sleuth thing, that they're going to like what they see.

Chris Stone [00:26:23]:
That's amazing. And it just speaks to the fact that whenever you go live, whenever you create content, you think nobody's watching. I mean, the content that we are creating, ladies and gentlemen, and the folks here in the car buying public on Amazon, we see you, we see these questions piling up. But it's our show. We get to ask first. This content lasts forever. When we go live, when we create this stuff. And if you treat it like that.

Justin Moore [00:26:51]:
If you go, okay, you see what.

Chris Stone [00:26:55]:
We put into the show, there's a reason why we put it in the show. And if there could be three people watching, there could be 3 million people watching. Because I don't know if a year from now somebody watches the show. I don't know if two years from now somebody watches the show. Jim and I have a business that's outside of this as a particular stream of revenue for us. And this is another example of what we put on our resume, which is what Justin is talking about. So, folks, this is a master class of stuff and he's basically ripping back the curtain that was covering brand deals and conversations with brands. And Justin, we are so stoked to have you on stage with us in a month's time in sunny, hopefully sunny Orlando at VIDFEST. But I want to get to some of these questions and for those that are asking questions in the Amazon, chatter on any of the tubes. And if you're not on Amazon, why not all our lives dealcasters live? So let me pull up. This is actually a comment, and this is from our friend Fabian, a content creator, Tools. Last week, a company offered me $10 for videos. I told them no way and it was offensive, especially when I did a video for them that was over 500,000 views. Sometimes we have to give ourselves value. What would you say to that, Justin?

Justin Moore [00:28:20]:
Okay, so, content, Creative Tools, you might hate me for what I'm about to say to you. So, first of all, yes, I do agree there is a very large chasm between the performance that you brought to that brand and what they're offering you for money. But one mindset shift that I think is really critical here is that sometimes the brands are not educated about what is reasonable and what is not. Maybe they have really not worked with influencers much. Maybe every single other person that they've reached out to has said, okay, $10 sounds good. Here's the thing. You have no control over those other people. I hear people all the time, all these creators accepting free products and low rates. It's like screwing the rest of us and all this stuff. And I'm here to say that is a victimhood mentality. You will never have any control over what someone else chooses to do with their business. The only thing you have control over is you, which is why the onus is on you to put together a very compelling, comprehensive proposal that the brand looks at and be like, wow, none of these other creators are offering help with consulting and strategy and understanding what other platforms they need to be on. And this person's giving me paid media rights for six months, and they're going to help me create content for my Instagram and all this yada, yada, yada. Yeah. This other person was offering just one live stream inclusion for $10. That's fine. But here Chris and Jim are offering me all this stuff. Yeah, it's going to be $2,500 a month, but all of a sudden, I see they're going to help me unlock my social media strategy. Do you see how that's a completely different proposal and a different pitch? And so I encourage you to yes, it's easy to get insulted, and the worst thing you can possibly do, and this is the part where you're going to get mad at me, is to say, I'm offended by what you're saying. Yes, there may be some brands and agencies out there who they're trying to prey on creators, but I believe that that's in the minority. I believe that it's more about education. And if you are willing, as a creator, to put the education in, to put the time in, to educate them, to jump on a zoom call with them, there's so much money that you can unlock beyond just talking about the brand on your platform. Yeah.

Jim Fuhs [00:30:24]:
And I think you bring up another great point. I think we've seen this, Chris, from some of the creators, is you get into this mindset, you've got to understand that education is critical and don't burn bridges. You burn that bridge. You may find out later, like, wow, this was really a big brand. I was just talking to the wrong person. So you got to be professional. You got to think about how you respond and don't take it personally.

Justin Moore [00:30:52]:
Right.

Jim Fuhs [00:30:52]:
This is a business, and I think that's something that we can all learn, whether it's as a creator or just in life.

Justin Moore [00:31:01]:
Well, a lot of times quickly about that idea. Okay. If you're a brand, let's say you're starting your own brand, right? The Deal casters brand, you got mugs, T shirts, whatever. I mean, you have T shirts already, but some sort of consumer product brands, right? What do you think is going to be your first approach? You're going to go out there and you're going to send 500 creators, hey, will you talk here's? Free product. See how many of are gonna see if how many of them are gonna bite that's called an earned media strategy, right? This is the thing. This is what PR agencies do, right? This is just part of a traditional PR tactic. Then they are going to have another tactic in addition to that of doing paid media, where they're going to do paid ads, they're going to do work with creators. They're going to do billboard and bus benches and broadcast TV and yada, yada, yada, right? It's all part of a comprehensive media strategy, okay? And so what I'm saying to you is that sometimes brands will, as their first kind of effort is to go out and see if they can get you to work for free. And you say no, you stand firm, stand your ground and be like, hey, here's all the things that I'd love to do for you. It's going to be $3,000 a month or whatever. They may come back to you in two, three months and be like, hey, I just want to circle back on this. We've unlocked some more budget. I can't tell you how many times that has happened to my wife and I where it's like, sometimes you just need to be firm. But it's not about you asked about mistakes, here's another one of the other biggest mistakes. When a brand reaches out offering free products or services or whatever, creators say, no thank you. I'm prioritizing paid partnerships. Right now you have literally go boom. You've slammed the door in their face. This is a perfect opportunity for you to educate them around why they should pay you because maybe they'd never thought of that before. Like, oh, I guess I just thought all creators did it for free because all these other creators did it for free. So again, shift to a passive strategy, to an active strategy, a victim to an ownership mentality, and I guarantee you things are going to change.

Chris Stone [00:33:03]:
God, that is so money. I guess there's a lot of people with that mindset of when the brand approaches you with just, here's some free products we'd like for you to do, x, Y and Z. We think, well, we either say yes or no and it's done, right? When what you're talking about is like, I'm more valuable than that because I can do all of these things. So I'm going to come back to them and say, here's what I can do for you for X. And if they don't come back, that's fine. Wasn't meant to be. There's going to be somebody else or whatever. I think a lot of people are afraid they're going to miss out and that that brand will will never come back. Is it a you talk a lot about confidence. Is that one of the ways to work against? How does someone gain more confidence other than obviously putting in the reps and doing the work and going live more and doing all that stuff? What are some ways to gain that confidence to I guess stay hungry to work with these brands.

Justin Moore [00:34:03]:
So one thing that I think is particularly toxic is continuing to work with the onesie, twosy brands over and over and over. The quantity approach. Like you said, there is a value in, yes, getting some repetitions, but at some point you need to put your foot down and be like, okay, I'm drawing the line in the sand. I'm no longer going to accept these types of deals that are consuming all of my time, right? Yeah, maybe. Okay, first of all, I am going to acknowledge that if you could do ten deals a month and it adds up to 1001, $500, that's meaningful. That's money. I'm not saying it's not, that's your mortgage, that's your car bill, that's meaningful money. However, if it is consuming all of your time, there is no way for you to sit back and start thinking, okay, let me be a little bit more strategic about the brands that I'm going to target. Instead of doing five of these ten deals this month, I'm going to sit down and I am going to spend 30 minutes on a very strategic pitch to this dream brand that I have, right? I'm going to make a video, unlisted video that I'm going to send them. I'm going to do yada, yada, yada. I'm going to put together this whole thing and then I send that. I guarantee you that is how you are going to take your business to the next level. Get that confidence, right? But if you get into this trap where you're just accepting every single deal all the time, it feels like you're on a treadmill because you can never get off it. You want to make this money that you're making, but at the same time, sometimes to take a step forward, you have to take a step back. And so I'm a big believer in the fact that you may need here's a random example, but it should illustrate what I'm talking about here. For the last, I have a newsletter where I send out paid sponsorship opportunities every single week to over 4000 creators. By the way, if you're not on it, creatorwizard.com join. And I have been paying someone $2,500 a month for the last year basically to help me curate this newsletter. It's a free newsletter, okay? And so if I had a mentality that like, wow, this is basically now almost over $25,000 out of my pocket right then. But the point was that I had a longer term vision in place. I said, okay, at some point I'm going to monetize this. I'm going to have coaching, I'm going to have courses, I'm going to have do all this, right? And so I was willing to invest in the short term for a long term vision. And so it's the same, you can extrapolate the same idea as a creator when you're working with brands and sponsors like, okay, I'm going to invest some time yes, that may mean that it's going to be at the expense of some of these onesy, two z deals. But I know, I believe that I will be able to work with these larger brands who are going to be paying me pop. And it's going to take some investment, it's going to take learning, it's going to take taking some courses, learning, hiring a coach, doing all these things to make myself improve. And then I will get there. And so I have never understood why there's this stigma around investing in your knowledge as a creator. When you want to go out in any other professional career, you go and you get a professional certification, you go back to school, you go do all these things, and yet somehow there's a stigma around as a creator when you're a freelancer, when you're a solopreneur in investing in your knowledge and expertise. I've never gotten in. So that's one of the things that I'm trying to destigmatize.

Chris Stone [00:37:16]:
Amazing. And for those of you who heard it, if you have not signed up for this email newsletter, it is fantastic. I'm not just saying that because Justin's on the screen. It's true every time I get it. What I'm guilty of, Justin, is I kind of scroll down to the bottom first because that's where you say, here are the paid stuff that I found this week. And I'll look at it because it's not all for me, right? I will look at it and kind of investigate some stuff, but that is chock full of value.

Justin Moore [00:37:54]:
Well, and let me tell you, this is V One, okay? The V One of the newsletter is these are all the opportunities that I found this week. Yeah, you're not going to be I understand that you're not going to want to partner with Gerber Chris or something, or maybe you are, I don't know. Or Pedialite. Right? They have other uses. Yes. But eventually what I would love to do would be able to you can set up your own subscriber preferences so there will be 20 versions of the newsletter. So a fashion influencer gets something very different than a live streaming influencer or whatever. And so that's where I see the newsletter in five years. But I'm not there yet. I don't have the infrastructure, I don't have the deal flow, but I'm working on it. And so that's really where I would like to take it, to be able to be a truly invaluable resource for any type of creator. But right now I'm surfacing the deals that I see.

Chris Stone [00:38:45]:
One of the things that Jim and I, we catch a little flak for Evangelizing, for Amazon, for to try to get other content creators in into Amazon, whether it's sort of bolting on what they're doing existing or starting something on Amazon like we did, because we feel like it's it's something that we can help people with. And we just think it's something that we think is fantastic and we get some slack for that. Kind of speaks to what we talked about earlier, the whole, you know, sort of competition and type of deal, but sort of back to the pay being paid for doing something for products versus just receiving free products. One of the other things that I think content creators get slack for is not being paid and just getting products. It's obviously their choice whether or not they want to get paid. But sometimes you'll be in a conversation with the brand and the brand will say, well, they'll even name the other content creator and they'll say, well, Justin Moore did it without us even paying him, and he just took the product. Now, I don't know this person. I don't know whether to believe them or not. I don't know if that's a sales tactic. So what would you say to content creators who maybe have that thought about saying, hey, you're watering down the creator economy about not charging these brands. You have more value than that. And also these brands that you're in a conversation with when they use that against you in these conversations, how does that look?

Justin Moore [00:40:21]:
Yeah. So the first part of the question around the mentality, around other creators doing it for free again, you have no control. There's nothing you can do about it. It's a mindset thing. You have to get over it. Read some positivity books. That's my advice. I go over it a lot in my content and things like that. I do a live stream every Friday at 10:00, a.m. Pacific all around. I talk a lot about confidence and all this stuff too. So I don't want to minimize that because it is a thing. I get it. It can be very difficult to get out of the scarcity mindset when you aren't where you want to be, right? You're not at the follower level. You're not making the income you want. And so, of course, it's just like, oh, one I always see is like, oh, that creator has never worked with that brand. I've been the one has never actually used that product. I'm the one who's been using it for three years. How come they didn't reach out to me? And I'm just like, well, did you talk about it on social media for them to actually figure out that you were authentic user of the product for three years? Going back to the whole thing about tagging them organically, right? That's number one. So that's one thing. And then the second thing is, how do you actually handle brands who say that? And my favorite strategy is to essentially make them question their current strategy. Okay? And so what I mean by that is a perfect response to someone like that is like, oh, well, just did it for free. You could be like, oh, well, super interesting to know. Can you share a little bit more about how you repurpose the content. Did Justin grant you the rights for three months to be able to cut it down to a 32nd spot or 15 2nd vertical, nine by 16 orientation that you can run as an IG Story ad or a TikTok Spark ad or something? Did he grant you those rights? Oh, he didn't? Interesting. Well, I specialize in those types of collaborations with a flat investment. Let me know if you'd like me to send you over some options of what that would look like. You see how in three sentences I completely made them question like, oh, well, no, Justin didn't give me that. Yeah, let's talk now. I see. Okay, maybe I understand now why I have to pay you. And look, I understand it's not going to work for everyone. Some brands are going to be like, screw you, I'll go find another influencer. But a lot of brands won't. A lot of brands will be like, oh, interesting. No, I had never considered that. And you'd be like, oh, interesting. I noticed that I was looking at your YouTube channel and I noticed that all you're doing is posting your 32nd TV ads on there. Well, I happen to know that that is not the type of content that does well on YouTube. Let's say you're talking to Rei, random outdoors brands, whatever, right? You say to them, well, this is really interesting, but you know what? I actually had a completely different idea. What if I create a talk show, a web series where me and a bunch of other outdoor influencers sit around a campfire using Rei gear and we just tell stories of the outdoors lives on your YouTube channel? I don't even post about it on my page. That's the pitch. It's not, hey, I'll use your latest, like, tent in my van life YouTube Vlog or whatever. That's not the pitch, right? There's so many other things that you can pitch to a brand beyond just them renting your audience.

Chris Stone [00:43:43]:
Yes. I think a lot of people think it's cookie cutter. Well, here's all these content. This is sort of the roadmap. Here's my easy button. And what you did for this content creator, you can also do for me. I'll do your videos, I'll do all that. Instead of going like, what you're talking about, which is, let me get creative. Let me show them the value, not just from your resume that you put out there. You're like, hey, guess what? I can do this for you, and I could do this for you, and I could do this for you. Then you become someone I think people forget when you're talking to a brand, the person that you're talking to wants to look good to their boss, right?

Justin Moore [00:44:20]:
Yeah, 100% do their job for them. That's the thing. Especially when it comes back to crafting a compelling pitch. When you've come to them and say, hey, I love your brand, I'd love to collaborate. You have basically just put the ball in their cart and be like, hey, think up an idea of how we can work together. And the brand's like, oh my God, I don't have time for this. Sorry, I have a million other things on my plate. Contrast that with you being like, hey, I saw that you were running this campaign last spring. Are you running that again this year? I would love to activate this on TikTok. I noticed you're not on TikTok. I would love to do three TikToks. I'll give you usage rights. I can turn it around to you in seven days. What do you think the chances of them just saying yes sounds good with no changes is unlikely, but at least you put something in front of them and it's tangible. They could be like, oh, well, we're not really activating on TikTok, but I like this idea, like, can you do this on Instagram? Can you do this on Amazon Live? Can you do this on Yacht? Right? So the onus is on you to put together a compelling proposal that they would actually respond to.

Chris Stone [00:45:18]:
God, that's money. That is so money. We've got another question here from Jim Mullen on Amazon. What's the difference between a brand and an agency? And how do you tell them apart?

Justin Moore [00:45:29]:
Sure. So a brand is an entity like Google Pixel. Google is the brand, right? And their agency is a completely separate organization that helps Google market the product. Okay, so this is like the big agencies of the world, like Edelman and Ketchum, and it's kind of confusing because there's all sorts of different types of agencies, too. So you've got media agencies who are responsible for the holistic marketing strategy for a brand. So how okay, we're going to be advertising on TV and on out of home billboards and digital media and all this stuff. So that's a media agency. They run point on the entire strategy. Then there's the PR agency. So public relations, they're responsible for comms, and if there's a crisis, they help with what you say to them, press and all this stuff. Then now there's influencer agencies who are very specific, and all they do is influencer activation. So it's like a very different entity. They are not the brand. They represent the brand, and they help the brand market the product.

Chris Stone [00:46:32]:
And I think it's a great question because who are you talking to when you're having these conversations? What are their priorities? That's key. So I know we're running up against the time. This is a man, I don't know what's the next level of a master class, whatever that is. That's what we just had.

Justin Moore [00:46:54]:
It is a wizards cauldron. No, I just wizard. I got wizard in my name, so I feel like I need to play on words of that or something like that.

Chris Stone [00:47:03]:
Justin, you're awesome, man. You have made a lot of people better today. And, man, we really appreciate you giving all your time. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Creatorwizard.com. Make sure you go there and join. At the very least, join this man's email list. I trust me, I'm subscribed to a lot of email newsletters, and I have to say, you're one of the ones I read every time, man. That is saying a lot, because I know a lot of people get a lot of junk, right?

Jim Fuhs [00:47:35]:
And Chris doesn't like to read.

Chris Stone [00:47:37]:
Yeah, I don't know how to read, actually. Yes, someone read just look at me.

Justin Moore [00:47:41]:
At the pretty pictures. No, that means a lot to me, man. And by the way, I do include pretty pictures in it. I include new content and new videos and things like that, in addition. So if you want to get better at this stuff, get better at learning how to negotiate and all this stuff I could talk about. This is all I talk about, guys. I don't talk about growth. I don't talk about anything. I talk about sponsorships. That's all I talk about. So if you want to work with brands, if you want to make more money, come hang out with me.

Chris Stone [00:48:09]:
Amazing. Thank you, everyone who's joined us. Listen, you know who else you got as a superfan that if you have not met this gentleman that's that's lighting up the Amazon chat here is Doc Rock. He said that he can tell that you guys are going to be fast friends because you guys are very aligned. But in any event, Justin, thank you so much for everything. And as always to everyone, don't fear the gear.

Jim Fuhs [00:48:39]:
Thanks for listening to Dealcasters. Congratulations. You've taken another step forward in your content creation journey. Please don't forget to hit the subscribe or Follow button here in your favorite podcast player so you can be reminded every time we drop an episode.

Chris Stone [00:48:56]:
We'd love hearing from our listeners and viewers. And if you're wanting to watch our shows live on Amazon, feel free to follow Dealcasters Live as well at Dealcasters Live. Follow us on Twitter or subscribe to our YouTube channel, where we also included added content that you cannot find anywhere else.

Jim Fuhs [00:49:15]:
If you have questions about this episode or have something you want us to review, you can also email us at dealcasters at dealcasters live. Thanks again for listening. And you know the deal. Don't fear the gear.

Justin Moore [00:49:34]:
You him.