Feb. 3, 2025

Unraveling Digital Threads with Neal Schaffer

We chop it up with Neal Schaffer, a leading Fractional CMO and best-selling author of a ton of great books, including his newest: "Digital Threads." As the host of the "Your Digital Marketing Coach" podcast, Neal is an authoritative figure in digital marketing strategies and has been a massive influence on our digital journey.

In this episode, Neal shares practical strategies from "Digital Threads," offering valuable insights for entrepreneurs, content creators, podcasters, and live streamers aiming to boost their digital presence and personal branding. Learn how to apply the SES Framework, adopt a digital-first approach, and creatively repurpose content for sustained growth.

 

Whether you seek to enhance brand visibility or engage authentically with your audience, Neal's actionable advice will empower you on your digital marketing journey. Tune in to achieve success and thrive in today’s dynamic digital landscape!

Digital Threads Book (Amazon): https://geni.us/DigitalThreads

🔗 **Engage with Neal Schaffer**

✅  Website: https://nealschaffer.com/ 

✅  Amazon: https://nealschaffer.com/amazon 

✅  Podcast: https://podcast.nealschaffer.com/ 

✅  LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nealschaffer 

✅  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/NealSchaffer 

✅  TikTok:https://www.tiktok.com/@nealschaffersocial 

✅  instagram: https://instagram.com/nealschaffer 

 

➡️ Our amazing guests are often booked with PodMatch, a top-quality podcast matching service. For booking great podcast guests like this, we love using PodMatch:  https://www.joinpodmatch.com/castahead 

 

All of the products discussed in this podcast can be found here: http://dealcasters.shop

All video episodes available for free at: https://dealcasters.live

 

👤Connect with Dealcasters:

https://Podcast.Dealcasters.Live 

🎧Grab all these great episodes as an audio podcast at: https://Podcast.Dealcasters.Live 

🎥Catch all the full episodes on replay or live at: https://dealcasters.live

Follow Dealcasters:

✅ https://dealcasters.live/ 

✅ https://www.instagram.com/dealcasters 

✅ https://www.twitter.com/dealcasterslive 

✅ https://youtube.dealcasters.live 

✅ https://www.linkedin.com/company/dealcasters-live 

✅ https://www.facebook.com/dealcasterslive 

✅ https://www.twitch.tv/dealcasters 

✅ https://kick.com/dealcasters 

DISCLAIMER: All opinions are ours. Some links are affiliate links, meaning if you buy something through a qualifying link, we might make a small commission at no additional cost to you. As Amazon Associates, we earn from qualifying purchases.

 

#amazonlive #livestreaming #dealcasters

 

 

Chapters

00:00 - Neal Schaffer Is The Man!

03:34 - What Neal Schaffer Means By "Digital First"

07:41 - Marketing Generational Gap on Social Media

16:46 - Integrating AI in Content Creation

23:50 - "Engagement Boosts Network Growth"

29:16 - "Content is Foundation in Marketing"

35:02 - Embrace the Algorithm's Evolution

47:05 - Scaling Sales with Video

56:14 - How To Enhance Skills with Digital Threads

Transcript

Neal Schaffer Interview
===

[00:00:00] Um, we're going to introduce, uh, we're excited to have a digital marketing expert, Neil Schaefer with us as an acclaimed author, strategist, and funky drummer. Neil shares insights from his killer new book, digital threads, which will help amplify your brand in a digital first world.

Please welcome to dealcasters, your digital marketing coach and our friend, the amazing Neil Schaefer.

Thank you, gentlemen. I had to do it. You know,

Right.

an ice cream cup that they sell at Dodger

Oh yeah.

a cap. Yeah. So it's really small, but yeah. And Hey, the Dodgers, the Braves, the best gift to the Dodgers was, you know, Freddie Freeman. So

Yes. You're welcome. You're welcome.

Ah, what a heartbreaking way to start the show, man.

But hey, al al downing the dodger pitcher al downing was the one who threw Hank aaron's home run ball that broke the record back in the day. I still remember that so it's payback All right, we're going [00:01:00] back. We're going back in time here This is not a baseball

but, but I will, I will say, and maybe it's cause I've moved a long time ago when I was a younger man, I was a Dodgers fan, especially back in the days of Dodgers, Yankees, uh, remember when the Dodgers, uh, back when Kirk Gibson limped onto the field, that was probably one of the most incredible baseball plays of all time, but you know, I moved to Atlanta and, you know, My Baltimore team who had been bad for so many years.

I still pull for them a little bit, but you know, as Chris knows, I live 10 minutes from the brave stadium. I go to a lot of games and they're fun to watch and fun team.

When the Dodgers play in Atlanta that Oh, I mean, that that scares a heck out of me, man. Like, that's intimidating. So,

it

I do not want to face the Braves in the playoffs.

Yeah. How is that still allowed, by the way? But anyway, like. You know, I, I digress, this is, that's what we call it an audio pattern interrupt. And for those that are just [00:02:00] listening, uh, on, on audio podcast, we started the show, introduced Neil and he had the tiniest little batting Los Angeles Dodgers batting helmet on his head, which is actually made for ice cream.

And, uh, as he was being introduced, it slipped off his head and it was, it couldn't have been more perfect, uh, for, uh, for the show. But Neil, I want to, man, I can't wait to dig into this because. As, uh, as expected, when I read Digital Threads and I devoured it, it was something that I was, you know, I know I've got a lot of, I know I've got a lot of work to do, right, and, and we're going to get into it and I want, I want to introduce you to our listeners, but it, it really feels like Listen, just go to neilschafer.

com. It's fractional CMO and like he does all of the things and he really works with businesses to, to develop so much social marketing, so much, uh, you know, uh, digital marketing, essentially. But what I really wanted to do is focus on [00:03:00] this book because The basis of this book and seemingly the basis of the podcast, Your Digital Marketing Coach, is what we call like a, um, a digital first approach as opposed to what someone would say like a, like a human first approach.

You're not, you're not excluding humans. But you're talking about being a digital first approach as it relates to a business or entrepreneur. Can you just sort of unpack what a digital first thing is for, for our viewers and our listeners?

I think the easiest and, and by the way, thank you for the question. Kind introduction, um, you guys. You know, I'll slip you a 20 later, but anyway, um, the digital first, you know, if we go back and I start digital threads with going back to the days of COVID, because if you live in a world where you cannot physically meet someone, how do you get the word out about your business?

In my case, it was the word out about my previous book called the age of influence, but [00:04:00] any business out there had the same struggle. So you had to basically rely on digital means to do so. Right. Meaning, you know, emails, all of a sudden we all started getting all these emails from all these companies. Is everything okay.

Right. Uh, social media became a big thing. Uh, and, and really, you know, search engines and we can go through all the different digital marketing channels that exist, but it's really putting digital, not as an afterthought. Like, we'll, we, we still do all this traditional advertising. We're gonna keep doing that.

Maybe we'll spend a little bit on digital to really understanding that the consumer today, the business today is overwhelmingly digital first. Right? The digital transformation has been a word that's gone, that's lived for like decades now. So, you know, digital's not an afterthought. It should be the forefront of how you consider your marketing, and that's the whole idea.

Think digital first. Not to say that traditional means. Cannot be, you know, effective, but let's think digital first and go from there in developing our marketing as a way to reach to other people, knowing that this is only going to accelerate [00:05:00] with every passing year, with every new generation, you know, the younger we are, the more digital first we become.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's really about meeting. It's really about meeting the, the, the people where they're at, right? It's not like, You know, there's less and less people that are walking into a retail store to buy things. I mean, there are people that are out there doing that, but you know, before they even walk in that door, they've done tons of research for any type of product and any type of service that's being like, you know, I, the businesses that Jim and I have are service space businesses, right?

Where we have to get found and that's, that's the only way to do it. And you know, they're not coming to my front door and knocking on my front door saying, Hey, I'm looking for a podcast producer, right? It's, it's going and, you know, meeting the consumers where they're at. Why do you think people are so afraid of that?

Why, why are they, why are, you know, the companies that you work with? Why, why are, why are they not thinking digital first?[00:06:00] 

Well, I wanted to take a step back on your comment about, you know, we don't buy from physical places. It's really interesting. I thought a lot about this recently. I there's two big shopping centers near where I live in Irvine, California. One is in Laguna Hills, California called the Laguna Hills mall, old school mall.

Big block department stores, you know, on each end of the mall. Um, you know, enclosed two story. And then in Irvine, we have something called the Irvine Spectrum. Irvine Spectrum is basically single story, although there's some department stores with 22 stories, but it's basically an outdoor thing where you walk from store to store, right?

So, Uh, I want to say a year ago, the Laguna Hills mall just closed down there. It's all been bulldozed. They're probably build homes or something there. The Irvine spectrum is going as hot as ever because they have a vibe, right? I'm going to say they become Instagrammable because they have a Ferris wheel.

Whenever, like for the Chinese New Year, they're going to do something whenever there's, you know, big Christmas tree, but it's also the Southern California vibe of enjoying the outdoors. They have like yoga sessions in the [00:07:00] morning, uh, outside. Um, and all these outside things that you can do with photo spots that make it a really, really popular attraction with Gen Z.

So from that, a lot of user generated content gets generated and it. You know, people, it becomes a magnet that people want to come to. So, um, it's really interesting, but getting back to your question, why isn't everyone digital first? I think a lot of people or a lot of small businesses, I should say, um, number one, rely a lot on agencies.

And the whole business model of an agency is they want to maintain a business. So they're going to maintain the status quo, right? Why change the status quo? It comes down to a business model, right? Um, others, it's just, they're not educated. They have an old way of thinking about marketing. They don't understand, especially the older you are and the less you are on social media, they don't understand.

The less you understand the potential that, you know, platforms like Tik Tok can have for, for engaging with, with generations like Gen Z. So it's, it's really a combination of things, you know, um, how do you do your current marketing, the education [00:08:00] in some cases, especially for small businesses, they're reliant on that marketing person that they hire and the marketing person that they hire.

Really relies on their past experiences. So I've had brands I've worked with where it was a consumer brand. They really only wanted to focus on Instagram because that's where the marketing person spent their most time. Right. Well, what, you know, they're targeting multiple generations. What about Facebook?

What about Tic Tac? That, you know, it should be a data driven exercise above and beyond the scope of one person's experience, but the smaller, the business. The less of a luxury you have. And therefore I get brought in by CEOs who are a little bit more innovative, a little bit more forward looking. They want to understand what they're missing out on.

They want to do a reset and, uh, you know, they want me to work with their staff and train them and, and they, they want to have what I would call. And you know, what Ann Hanley called one of the testimonials I got for digital threads. She's like, this is like a modern marketing guide. And, and I would agree.

It's like, this is the way that modern marketing works. But so many small businesses don't, don't get it. And that's really why I [00:09:00] wrote the book and why, you know, every chapter in the book could be its own, it could be its own speech. It could be its own course. It could be another book. I could write a book just on user generated content or just on content repurposing.

Right. So every chapter really has intent and I think, uh, has a lot of meaning and I really want it to raise the level, right? Like my motto is educate and empower, and I want to empower, you know, millions of small businesses and, and entrepreneurs and, and, you know, content creators and service providers to leverage this.

Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. And, you know, Neil, one of the things too, and kind of going back to what we talked about earlier, like the three of us for all of those out there in, uh, in this, in streaming land, we won't say TV land, right? That's a whole change. We're native analogs, our children. I don't know. Probably. People up to about 40 or so are what we call native digitals, right?

They're used to this thing. So you're bringing to them stuff like, yeah, this perfectly makes sense. But it's like, I think Chris and I have become more, you know, I don't know. I guess I could say [00:10:00] we've all adapted to digital and see the importance. How do you think we get these folks one to overcome that?

And, and I do actually have, this is a true story just happened a day here in a Cobb County where I live. We're talking about malls. Chris, I don't know if you heard about this, the town center of, uh, of Cobb County, uh, they had a sign on their door to say, they said they were closed and they didn't say why, well, Georgia power released a statement.

They didn't pay their power bill. So this whole mall is dark and all these stores are like, can't even have people come and visit them. So you're kind of like, Oh my gosh, you know what's going on. But it's like, well, I'm just going to go on Amazon and buy what I need and have it delivered to my house. And I'm not, I'll probably never visit that place again.

I mean, it's just crazy.

Yeah. And I mean, with COVID, we all as consumers just accelerated so much with, with all these digital services. I get like, I get like dental floss at Amazon. I mean, I have subscribe and save and, [00:11:00] and the whole bit. So, so yeah. And I wanted to show you, I was going to,

He's

right. If you come back with it, with an ice cream scoop, LA Dodgers hat on your

like, no, like I am an analog person. Like I still collect like, like CDs. I have like a hundred

What is that plastic you have in your

is there something in there?

I just showed, I just posted a memory on Facebook of this iPod, iPod Mano, right? Yeah. I'm like, Hey, what old technology do you still have? And someone, you know, a few people said mini displayers, like my, my stereo here actually has a mini displayer. You know, embedded in it and I still have mini disc, right?

So I I'm with you guys. I have LPs, I have 45s, right? But I understand the convenience of modern technology as well. I understand the convenience of like Kindle and Spotify. So, um, I think that, and maybe you two as well, but I'm a Gen Xer. I think Gen Xers have this unique thing where we have, we have one foot in the new [00:12:00] world.

Because when we were in college, the internet and email came about and smartphones, and we remember the old world from growing up before the internet, like what life used to be like. So we have a unique way. We were in a unique position, I think, to educate and to bring the two together. Um, but, uh, but yeah, it's just, and it's like AI, like people afraid of AI, but once you, once you understand how to use it and you find it useful, you're going to do it more once you realize, well, I can put a hundred books on this Kindle.

And, you know, I still don't have a kindle. I prefer the experience of reading with a paperback. That's a decision I make, but I also understand it's really convenient and ebooks outsell physical books. So, and there's a reason behind that. So, you know, for me, when I graduated from college, the graduation speech was about being a lifelong learner, and I've really taken that to heart.

I don't want to be left behind. I don't want to be like growing up, seeing these older people who were behind the times. I never wanted to be that way. Right. And I think. That mindset has really helped me probably YouTube as well, gentlemen, um, as well. And, and I think, you know, people like us will, you know, enjoy challenges, new [00:13:00] technologies, what have you, there are other people just stuck in their ways.

And, you know, the traditional graph of like early adopters, you know, mass market to, to the, to the laggards. It's always going to be that way for any given technology. Right.

Yeah. It wasn't that long ago, Neil, where we were afraid to put our credit card numbers on the internet. Right.

still is,

Okay.

she will not do Apple pay. I just started Apple pay in all honesty. I do Venmo and stuff, but yeah. So,

Yeah. And we were just afraid to share anything like, don't put your address in there. Don't. Now everybody is, is, you know, constantly documenting every single moment of their lives and just putting it out there. And you know, that's native digital, like, like Jim's talking about. So. I, I would imagine you deal with the varying degree of native analogs and native digitals, but like, you know, this, this correlates great into, into the AI conversation because there is fear there still, [00:14:00] um, as, as it relates to, you know, the, the sharing of information and, and whether or not these generative models, you know, whether it's imagery and video now is getting better and better and better.

And where's the stuff coming from? Where are the copyrights? Where, and so. People are, are really sort of reticent, but then, you know, those folks that are, you know, the, the first movers are, are, you know, getting attention. And so, you know, I guess let's talk a little bit about that. So what's your, what's your stance on, on AI and are you like, uh, just jumping off the, into the deep end on this other stuff?

Do you have one eye, do you have, you have one eye open on it or, you know, what are your thoughts? Thanks.

Yeah, I mean, all this comes down to a discussion of, and we're, we're targeting businesses here, right? I mean, all three of us. So does it make business sense? So take the emotions, like I don't care if you like it or not. Does it make business sense to use? Obviously [00:15:00] we've been using artificial intelligence, that all the algorithms use Artificial intelligence.

Google uses it. We probably use Grammarly probably within our Google mail. We've seen it like correct, you know, auto correct or recommend corrections for us. So AI is already a part of our lives, whether we like it or not. Um, even in Amazon, you type in something, it suggests keywords for whatever you're searching for.

So I. Wrote digital threads, you know, it was published in October 2024. It was mainly written, you know, in 2024, late 2023. So I already saw AI emerging. We didn't have like, you know, oh, four chat GPT and what have you. But I realized that what businesses first needed to do is figure out where AI fits in, what they're already doing.

Cause. AI itself is not a strategy, right? Like I used to say, social media is not a strategy. It just, it compliments, it replaces nothing. It compliments everything. And I've been saying that, and it's the exact same thing with AI. So with marketing, and there's many ways to use AI outside of this, but we get into content creation, which I think is like the hot thing with, with AI, whether it's, you know, [00:16:00] video or audio or, or, um, image or text and where does it fit in?

The first of all, do you have a content creation process? If you're not creating content, you need to have content in order to use it. I would never recommend you use AI to create content from scratch. That is the absolute worst thing you can do, but assuming that you're already creating some side of content, regardless of what format it is, where can AI fit into your content creation process?

And I have a dedicated chapter on that in digital threads. And I would say, you know, Fast forward to today, and it's only been a few months since the book was published. You know, I, the promise of AI is that it's going to help you do everything faster and better. And so I try every single marketing process that I have.

And when I work with clients, is there a way we can use AI for this? Right. And I'll, I'll experiment with a prompt and you know what, sometimes it's not ready for prime time. Sometimes it's quicker for me to do it outside of AI. Awesome. Right. But there's more and more times like frequently on a daily basis where, you know, it makes sense.

Let's, you know, let me experiment a little bit with the prompts and [00:17:00] let's put in a custom GPT and go from there. So now. You get to a point and in the book in digital threads, I talk about like a library of content and you know, all these different things, it gets to a point and I'm sure you two gentlemen have faces as well, where you feel really comfortable, like, yeah, like I can create content on a daily basis across all these platforms.

It's it's, you know, it, it is, it becomes a lot easier and quicker. To do, and you actually become better at it. So then you could spend more time engaging with people, developing relationships, right? knowing that, you're able to develop that content because the key thing about using AI for content creation is the content has to start with you.

It has to start with you speaking with your ideas. Your transcripts, your videos. And if you have that content and it might be buried in like webinars, you did or speeches you gave, or maybe email conversations, or maybe conversations that your salespeople have on zoom that you've recorded and, put into Otter, wherever it is, if that content exists, then what.

AI is really good [00:18:00] at is repurposing that content, right? It's, based on your ideas, your perspective, your tone, your values, your products, your brand. So anytime it is repurposed into something, yes, it is AI created, but the base is you, and that takes it from developing something from scratch to looking and Editing a final copy, like from zero to hero in very little time, but you have to put in the reps as the great Kobe Bryant would say, you have to have that initial content best.

The great thing is you probably already have it, right? You just need to dig into those IP, find the assets, feed it into whatever way you feed your AI, your LLMs, or create your own LLM. Um, and you're off to the races and you're going to get just a personalized, uh, you know, especially when you start working with custom GPTs, you begin to get a personalized and repeatable.

Process of using AI and it only gets better from there. So it isn't rocket science. It takes a little bit of AI literacy. It takes a little bit of practice. It takes a little bit of experimentation, but every single person can get there. And, you know, I started listening to Michael Stelzner. He comes up in [00:19:00] every conversation we have here.

Um, his AI podcast and I'm only, you know, he started, I saw him at Vid summit last year and I'm still like in July of 2024 is podcast, but it's like, Oh my God, this is so old. Right. Of course we all know this. And I think. A few years from now, the way we talk about AI today is just going to be so commonplace.

But once again, those who get up to speed quicker, reap the benefits. And I hope everybody, if there's one thing you get out of today's interview, it's like, you know, let's find more ways to use chat GPT or whatever. Let's experiment with, you know, what are things that take up a lot of time? Is there a way we can use AI?

And you might be pleasantly surprised whether it's for work or personal life. I mean, I would, I flew out to Tokyo two weeks ago, guy next to me, first time going to Tokyo. I'm like, Hey, where are you headed? He goes to be honest with you. And he. He's like an engineer. Okay. So he's a little geeky, but he's like, I asked all my friends, like where they, where I should go in Tokyo.

And I took all the recommendations, put it in a chat, GPT, and it made an itinerary for me. So I don't have to think about it. And I'm going to hit all the best spots in the most effective way. [00:20:00] I'm like, dude, exactly. Right. It's a no brainer. So hopefully that will dumb it down for those that aren't yet into AI.

Um, and you know, that's really, we should start the whole AI imagery. It takes a lot of iterations to get it right. In my experience, AI audio is there, but there's a greater value to being human with the emergence of AI. Cause you guys probably as well, you can see when it's AI generated, right? When you see that social media posts.

And I think we're all going to get attuned to that. So it's actually the most human's going to win, right? And video like showing up live doing videos is the, is the ultimate way to, to deliver value, to create an emotional connection that AI cannot create.

and you just told us in storytelling is, is a differentiator, right? You just told a story about a guy that you, that you met, it was an engineer and kind of geeky and, and that whole thing. Like. Do you think AI, I mean, maybe it will eventually, it's getting better, um, but that is, you know, all humans listening and watching, you know, like this is, this is what we have as a [00:21:00] differentiator to, to connect with people and, you know, it's, it's our stories.

Jim, I know you had a question.

Yeah. So Neil, I, I know you talk a lot in the book, right? How we're using digital to build relationships and know, like, and trust and going back to what you just talked about. Do you think that engagement is more important than content creation, especially if someone's just starting out in, you know, we'll say sewing or building their digital threads?

Yeah, you know, content creation becomes an absolute commodity, right? I think any of us who have used chat GPT for a year or any of these tools, we get it right. It's like I can create more content than I can publish. So what is so too much is too much, but the engagement is what the AI can't do. And in fact, I will say I see a lot more AI generated comments like on LinkedIn, right?

I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like live streams, right? Oh, like this was a great conversation. Wait, it's only scheduled. I haven't published it yet. But anyway, I digress. I digress. But, um, but yes. So, and, and, you know, I have another book out. [00:22:00] I published just two weeks for digital threads called maximizing LinkedIn for business growth.

And I talk about this concept of a LinkedIn playbook and I'd say, you know, public, yeah, you need, you need to have a minimum amount of content published, right? You need to have credibility. You need to have social proof. You need to give people something to look through in your feed when they go to your profile.

Also, the something I didn't talk about in the book that it's only, you know, emerging the last few months. Is the topic of, you know, generative AI search. So you actually want to have, I talk about a library of content for traditional search engines like Google, but you want to have content out there on all these platforms for the large language models, right?

And I think we're only beginning to realize this today. So you need to have a minimum of content once a week. Awesome. If you can commit to that, that's great. But if you publish one content per week, engage 10 people every day. Go into your feed, like the people you follow, leave five comments a day, 10 comments a day.

I know I don't like to like put numbers behind relationships. It's, but if that gives you a way of like tracking your [00:23:00] progress, that that's really what you need to be doing. Show up in people's notifications, find new people to connect with, uh, to engage with, do searches on LinkedIn for, you know, whoever you want to network with or on Instagram or tick tock for topics that you're personally interested in or, or, you know, that you work in.

But that is really. What will differentiate that will help you develop your own circle because just publishing content, it's a one way conversation. And, uh, the social networks do not like that, right. They, you know, LinkedIn time and time as an example, it's always said, you know, we will show more content from people who engage more with their networks, uh, with the feed.

So take that as a hint that you really need a balance. And yes, over time, the content creation takes time, which you can accelerate with AI, but the engagement has to be manual, but it's also, that's where the art is, the creativity is, that's where the human, Uh, you know, conversations and, and, and based on your own objectives of who you want to connect to and why, I mean, I just had someone on LinkedIn, we went to the same college and he reached out to me and he goes, Hey, [00:24:00] you know, I'm, I'm in like startup equity and I see you're in marketing and I don't know, let's have a conversation.

And I'm like, absolutely. Right. So he gave me some really, really great advice. And he has some connections with like a big, famous, uh, VC incubator in the Silicon Valley. So, so maybe there'll be some business and guess what? He also is involved in private equities. He's looking for new investors, right? I'm not immediately interested in that.

Maybe in the future, who knows, but this is the type of thing that came out of this seemingly random, but actually very strategic thing of saying, you know what, I'm going to start reaching out to people who went to the same university or college, because we have that in common. Right? Um, and you know, I do this when I go to Japan.

I'm going back to Japan next week. I'm going to a new city called Nagoya. So I'm reaching out to people with marketing in their title in Nagoya saying, Hey, I love networking with other marketers. When I travel, I'd love to meet you when I'm in town. Let's connect, right? Um, and that's how you and you know, that's a physical trip, but you could be doing this virtually 24 7.

[00:25:00] Silence.

Which, uh, is, is awesome because, you know, basically at the end of every chapter, you've got assignments and you're, you're putting in your own information.

And lo and behold, you're like, Neil is now running to go get some more CDs, I think, or a little hat to put on his head. But, uh, the workbook is it comp layers the workbook. Look at that. Nice. Oh, like there's nothing like a good physical workbook to just, yes. And by the time you get through that, you're, you're just going to be like the most amazing Neil Schafer you could possibly be.

But I wanted to talk, the one thing that really, um, and I talked about this initially when Jim and I were, were, were kibitzing here before the show, the best books are the ones that, you know, you want to get something out of [00:26:00] and they get under your skin and you're like, God, that's, Okay, I need to do this.

This is something I need to do. And, and, um, it does, your, your book highlights this SES framework. And, you know, it, it stands for search, email, and social. And I thought to myself, okay, Neal Shaffer is a person who, Big social media guy, right? I've seen him as social media marketing world. He speaks on stages at social Why do we have social?

last After email and of course search right? You got to get found the whole no like and trust thing and you go through the aida

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Uh thing and how that's altered slightly as as digital is is now, you know, uh a part of that I'd love for you to kind of walk us through You That framework and how that applies to SES because that really turned me upside down and how I'm, you know, I need to apply what I'm doing on my website.[00:27:00] 

Yeah, well, thank you for the kind introduction. So as you said, I've always been known as a social media marketer and in 2020 I published the age of influence was a book about influencer marketing, which, you know, mainly. Social media, but that book really brought me into what we can call traditional digital marketing because you know, it was COVID when it came out, March, 2020, California went on lockdown where I live like it did everywhere else.

And all these companies were reaching out to me saying they wanted help with influencer marketing. But when I looked into what they wanted to achieve, I realized that there were other ways that they could achieve it probably better than they could with influencer marketing. It's almost like going to the doctor and saying, you know, I think I have X disease.

Please give me medicine instead of asking the doctor for a diagnosis. And I bring up this analogy in the book as well. And I think a lot of people do this. They read a blog post, you know, maybe this New York guys is podcasting. Oh, we need this. Well, you really want to consult with an expert to understand, do you really need that or not?

Is there something better? And so often [00:28:00] I found myself saying, you know what? You know, you want to do influencer marketing. You only have 200 followers on Instagram. You've only published like five posts. I don't think it's going to go well, right? Just based on my professional experience. But, you know, you know, so that was the beginning of like this SES framework where there's other components you can do.

And also in the book, I didn't give a name to it, but there's also an order of things, right? I talked about like the Maslow's. You know, order of, of, of hierarchy of needs. But in a similar way, there is an order of steps that you should take in this modern marketing infrastructure. And this is one of them is that, you know, before you do it, before the influence of marketing, you need content, right?

And in order to, you know, have content, you should be created in a strategic way. And the most important place to have your content is on your website. And the most important place to make sure it gets seen is through search engines. So this is where, you know, I came up with. The first S, which is at the beginning, you need to have content because guess what?

You can repurpose that content into Instagram [00:29:00] reels, into carousel posts, into text posts. I have clients that do this. It's not hard to do, but you have to have your initial, your mini LLM in AI terms, but you need to have that content, especially because you need a digital storefront, that's your website.

So you should really work on that first, in my honest opinion, and you should build up this content, which over time is going to help you rank in search engines. And let's throw in generative AI search as well, uh, also requires content. So it's really one in the same, um, and you need to be discovered. And guess what?

When we talk about search engine discoverability, it's not just Google and it's not just chap GPT it's also tick tock. Which really is a search engine for Gen Z, right? It's also YouTube. It's, you know, a lot of social networks, some more than others. But in other words, you know, the whole idea about search is you want to become discoverable and it's, it's more than just Google, but it all starts with building what I call a library of content.

So I'd have companies reach out to me. They wanted to do influencer marketing without having any of the other things. It's like, hold on, let's, let's take a step back and let's start with [00:30:00] that. But here's the thing though, 99 percent of your traffic, it's not going to convert. So you start building this library of content.

You start getting traffic to your website, but no one's buying anything. No one's filling out your contact form. You need to find a way to convert those people into becoming a prospect, into becoming a future customer, into continuing a conversation. And the only way to do that is if somehow you get them on your email list, right?

Which is the ultimate way to keep in communication, regardless of what social media or Google is doing. Updates. They do. Uh, and the way to do that is you offer something called a lead magnet. You, you give them an incentive, you know, go to any e commerce website. They're going to throw out a 10 percent off coupon for your email address.

It's the same concept or go to any B2B SAS company, 30 day free trial. It's the same thing. They're getting an email address. They're going to nurture that relationship over time. So I found. You know, because I've done social media marketing for so long. I mean, I come to the conclusion in the book and I show you my, my data from all of my social media and, and the little, the [00:31:00] dwindling traffic that a company will get from social media over time, um, because they want you to stay on the platform.

The social media today is just vastly different than it was before COVID. Right. And I think a lot of businesses still chase that shiny social media object. And I'm saying, hold on here. Like, yes, it's valuable in a different way. It's still valuable, but these other things are equally valuable. And that's why I put the social last because I don't have to promote social.

Everyone wants to do it. But the way I talk about social and digital threads is very, I'm not talking about you need to publish X times a week and and do the engagement. I'm basically the same businesses. You're basically screwed, right? Um, the algorithms are always going to favor people. Content creators like, you know, our host here.

And, you know, businesses just do not have the DNA to become an influencer, to become a content creator. So you're better off just, you know, collaborating with them, getting user generated content developed or generated. And there's different ways to do that. And I have a chapter on that as well. In other words, social media was made for people, not for businesses.

And I've been saying this for over a decade. [00:32:00] So instead. Trying to become a person through social media. I wanted to leave people with, and hopefully my wifi is still working. Oh no. Is everything okay?

Yeah. I think, I think we're

Oh no. Okay. Sorry about that. I don't know what happened. I have Google fiber here.

No, I think, I think we're good. We're back. We're

We're back, we're back. We're back. We're

All good. So yeah. So you taught you like, this is the other thing that, that, um, God, this, this book messed me up in a good way. Um, it,

like messing people up.

No, it's good. I know you do. I know you do because it's like, um, that's, that's what makes you better. Like you go through, you go through, okay, there's a little bit of struggle here.

How can I, how can I get better? Um, the, the algorithms, right? I have always like been like, okay, this is freaking [00:33:00] witchcraft, right? The SEO and The algorithm of YouTube and the algorithm of, of meta and all of these things. And I've always had a, not a great relationship, uh, with, uh, with Al, GoRhythm. And, um, you talk, you, you go in depth about actually having a relationship with an algorithm.

And it's the first time that I've really, I've had, you know, I, I've watched seminars and webinars and listened to podcasts about SEO. And it's, it, it, it makes sense, but, but this really kind of broke it down and made, it made sense for me. Can you talk about, you know, like, the relationship you need to have with the algorithms and not like the algorithm being one algorithm, right?

And it's, it's, it's keywords, it's thinking about people searching for you. On these particular platforms, because that to me really is, is the thread that, that I felt most, most connected to,

[00:34:00] Oh, thank you. I'm, I'm glad it gave you another perspective. So I think, you know, as marketers, it's like the algorithm is the devil, it's absolutely evil and we've all been hit by it and it's always changing and it always will be because it is an algorithm. It's always trying to fine tune itself. But if we take the mindset that the algorithm is just trying to help every social media user or every, you know, Google, you know, social Searcher find the best content by the best people.

That's basically what it's doing. So by trying to hack the algorithm, you're always one step behind the algorithm anyway, because the algorithm is always changing and those that try to hack it. Trust me, you know, Google, you might try to, you might be successful hacking Google for for a short period of time, but at some point.

They come in and it's like, Oh, you're trying to hack me and they will degrade you. So I think, you know, the way to look at the algorithm, it is, it's just, it's the mechanics of trying to unsurface the best content for the right people. So give the algorithm what it wants. I'm not talking about hacking it, but just understanding.

And I [00:35:00] talk about, and you mentioned, you know, Chris, the term recon, you did some recon before, and I bring up that concept in the book, it was actually Daryl Eaves who brought it up to me, but, you know, create a second profile on a YouTube or on a tech talk where you, or Instagram, we can create multiple profiles and just start following.

Topics that your target user might follow or might engage with and see what content comes up. Right. And I think the problem that a lot of marketers or business owners have is they don't spend enough time in social media to be able to see it. But those that do, it's like, Oh my gosh, like the, on LinkedIn polls are going crazy.

We need to do a poll and I, not today folks, but like two years ago there was a time.

Right.

Because if you spend enough time in the, you, you realize what the algorithm favors, they'll give the algorithm what it favors. Today, we know in general, even with a helpful content update, I am like a lot of other people, a lot of smaller businesses, bloggers that got hit really hard with it, like the exact same content.

Ranked number one today, not even in the top a hundred tomorrow. Like what's going on. Right. Um, it was helpful, but you know, [00:36:00] Google has their own way of changing the algorithm. They have their own way of giving new sites a chance versus old sites or whatever it might be. We need to understand what they're doing.

We need to understand what's ranking, just like we need to understand what shows up in the social media feed. And we need to see, Hey, just like you said that I, I messed you up. Well, Google and the algorithms are always going to mess us up. The worst thing you can do is curse the algorithms. The best thing you could do is go, okay, game on.

What, what are, because it's not like they're not showing content anymore, right? What is the content they're showing? What can I learn from that? Ultimately in social media, it's a video first approach, which is going to get you the most visibility. Even LinkedIn now has a dedicated video tab in their app.

And they're really pushing that. Although LinkedIn is still very, it's still very varied, but obviously the other platforms it's clearly video first is one thing. It's also, Hey, guess what? People are not advertising in his videos. They're having natural conversations. So that's the other thing that businesses need to realize that social media is not for promotion.

And I'd say the same about search engines, right? Like what content [00:37:00] showing up when you do a search and shot GPT, what's showing up? Why is it showing up? It's having that really inquisitive mind, right? Of being curious. And then trying to, you know, my whole life was just reverse engineering, right? Why is this happening?

Cause there are reasons the algorithm does work on science, right? It does have instructions. So, you know, what is it? And you realize, you know what, maybe I used to rank for this content on Google, but you know what, my content, maybe it's stale. I mean, it's like two or three years old. You know, AI has changed a lot in two or three years.

Maybe I should update my content or, or, Hey, you know, that number one, number two, number three, they all have like infographics and tables in their blog posts. I only have text. Like anybody can go to chat GPT and generate text. Right. But, but so what is the information gain? A lot of SEOers have that, that term now, like when I read your blog, but is there any information gain?

If not, it's just, it's just a regurgitation that anybody manipulating chat GPT could do. It has no value. So, you know, we need to up our game. Right. And so the [00:38:00] algorithm changes, give us an opportunity to up our game. And I, you know, I take them as challenges and try to figure out what can I do better? Um, obviously you want to serve the end reader.

It's not about serving the algorithm. But. At the same point or at the same time, you should be formatting your content in a way, or if you want to go a little bit out of your way to give a little bit of extra information that the search engine algorithm would like, probably your readers would enjoy it as well.

Right? So I don't want you to think algorithm first, right? In the, the content should always be about the end user and developing that relationship and providing value, but there are many ways to do it. And I would be, I would be aware, right? I'd be really cognizant of the algorithm when I'm creating the content, especially when it comes to search engines, but even on social media, to some extent.

Okay.

same information on podcasting, [00:39:00] what, what is the difference? It's Neal Schaefer and it's Chris Stone, it's, it's, it's us and, and what we're, how we're presenting that information, right?

Uh, and, and so, you know, that's, that's really what it's about. And I, you know, my guess is that the, the content that's winning is the content that is serving the most people, is, is original, is, is not that can be found in a million other different places. Something that is rising above the noise, so to speak.

Yeah, there's based on personal experience or, you know, that, that company has an expertise, they actually provide an SEO tool versus an individual blogger talking about SEO. I mean, there, there are differences in terms of authority. And I think, you know, the emergence of generative AI has actually. You know, forced Google to make those changes.

Uh, because anybody can publish content about anything today, whereas you couldn't do that before AI. So, so yeah, uh, you know, it's an awakening, but it's also like, Hey, you know, if you really want to get traffic, but, but here's [00:40:00] the thing. That's really important when it comes to search engine traffic, you still need a library of content because you're still publishing content, you're publishing email newsletters, you're publishing content on social media, right?

You're publishing lead magnets. So the content and large language models. Don't care. I mean, I, you know, it's funny cause I'm starting to get like almost in one month recently, I got more traffic from being than Google, which is really bizarre, which just goes to show you how much Google's suppressing my traffic, but Hey, Microsoft chat, GPT, I'll take it.

So chat traffic from chat, GPT is coming up. So large language models work on different algorithms, right? Um, so even if you got hit by Google, there are still utilitarian reasons why you should develop that content. If you get traffic from Google, consider a creaming. You know, icing on the cake, but, but either way, it's something that you do need in modern marketing.

Um, Now, I want to go back to something you said a little bit earlier, and you were talking about video first. And I think that one of the challenges that Chris and I see with, uh, with [00:41:00] folks, I mean, whether they're guesting on pod, you know, and, and right, podcasting is morphing into a video podcast is how do we get these small business owners.

Uh, these, these folks that want to create content to start with video. It seems like there's, uh, it's still, when you really look at the numbers, like even when you talk about people that produce content on LinkedIn, it's a very small percentage. And I can't tell you how many business owners I'll ask them.

Like, you know, cause I think of Roger Wakefield and what he did with his plumbing company, right? It's like. What, why aren't you doing videos talking about educating me about what your business does and just put it on YouTube, let alone they could put it on their website. What do you, what do you think we can do to really show them that this works?

And it's not like they got to spend millions of dollars to do it.

Yeah, I think it just comes down to, and most people do not want to be in video and I get it right. I think it just comes down to, Hey, we're not, this is not an emotional decision we're making. This is a business decision. If we want to get visibility, On [00:42:00] these social platforms or in YouTube, we need video.

It's, it's plain and clear. I mean, if you want to be on Tik TOK, you have to have a video for instance. Right? So it is a business decision, the old text post or drop a link in a post. It just, it doesn't work. I, I just don't recommend it. I I'll publish a newsletter on LinkedIn and repurpose a blog post, right?

With a link inside the newsletter, rather than share a link post, because I'm going to get way more. And that's what it comes down to is, is, is visibility is discoverability and it's getting a lot harder. So if those older businesses are not doing anything visual in their social media, it just is going to get harder and harder for them to get any visibility, any discoverability.

And if the business owner doesn't want to do it, you know, maybe a podcast is a better solution. They don't necessarily have to be video first, although it can help. You can use, um, you know, text to video tools to create. Short form video, you know, with, with a voiceover, although I don't think it's, it's the best way to do it, but it's possible, but I, you know, I, I think if, if the [00:43:00] business owner doesn't want to do it, is there someone in your company that you want to become the face of the company, or do you want to use an avatar?

And, and I do business in Japan and there have been some, you know, big Japanese companies that have used avatars instead of people, right? Uh, so it's, it's possible, but it's not, it lacks the human that is need right now, but. It really is a business decision. And for anybody, any business out there, I'd say, you know, what I would do to convince, and I know you gentlemen are, you know, selling to that market is I always try to find a role model, right?

I try to find a competitor or maybe in a similar industry, like a Roger Wakefield. And show them what this person has accomplished doing, you know, exactly what you're recommending they do and seeing the visibility that they're getting. I mean, Roger Wakefield, hundreds of thousands of subscribers, if not a million, hundreds of thousands of views, if not millions of views per video.

He's opening his own trade school. I mean, the guy's amazing and he's one of the most down to earth coolest people you'll, you know, you'll ever meet. I don't think as a plumber, he was always a video first person, uh, [00:44:00] but he's not a business benefits of doing it. So, uh, you know, I, I do think there's more and more.

People doing video more and more businesses doing video and it is something and maybe, you know, It's not like the business owner showing it. Maybe it's an interview based video like this Maybe they feel more comfortable talking to other people and that's fine. That's another way of doing it There's no one right or wrong way But really, you know, uh look into even go to the video tab in linkedin if you're in b2b Just check out what other people are doing.

Um, and I think what's going to happen and I think you two gentlemen are like me It's I can do that. Why are they getting all those views? I want some of those views, my video game. Right.

don't do that at all, Neil. We don't compare ourselves to anyone.

I mean, it all, all it takes and yeah, well, hold on a minute here. Let me, yeah, hold on here. Yeah, there we go. There you bet screen. But yeah, I mean, that's all, this is all it takes. All it takes is an iPhone. You know, it's not rocket science. [00:45:00] Silence.

can choose to not do video. But, to your point, um, You can also, you're, you're choosing to not get found as well, right? I mean, I just thought it, it, it, it's the bottom line and I have conversations all the time with people about, okay, I've, I've done this.

I've spoken to people that have hundreds and hundreds of audio podcast episodes and they're like, ah, I really know I need to do video. And I was like, yeah, like at, at a minimum. And while you're recording your episode, record a video. It's not hard anymore, right? We all have zoom accounts. It's, and, uh, I think people are, are hesitant to doll themselves up and they feel like it.

But I think you, that actually, like we have a kind of a somewhat professional show here, Neil. Um, but you don't, you don't necessarily have to have all of the bells and whistles. I think the important thing is. To show yourself as someone that might be trusted by more customers, more [00:46:00] people. Right. And I think if you're behind these, these digital walls and you're not showing yourself authentically, that might backfire you on, on you as a, as a company.

Yeah, I mean, if you're the type of company, and this is like my next book idea, I'm still very early on in the process, but if you're the type of company where if you as the business owner go out and meet a potential client and you're able to make the sale. And you're pretty high at converting people just based on your own demeanor and, and, and personality and way of, of talking about, you know, your solution and the pain points you are.

That's, you know, the video is going to help you scale that to people that don't have a chance to meet you. Right. You know, you're only limited by meeting so many people in a day, but video scales 24 seven globally, obviously. So, you know, if you are that type of outward going person, but you're not in the video, you are the perfect candidate to really find some success.

And once again, you know, Success in life, success in business is about experimenting, do a three month pilot program, right? Um, you know, look at the data, [00:47:00] try to get some anecdotal evidence of, Oh, we got this lead or this deal because of this video, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, but by not doing an experiment, right, you're never going to know.

And you're just basing it off of your own human emotions and your own limited experiences. And, and that's, remember, I, I, we go back to the conversation where all these businesses have limited marketing based on the limited experiences of their marketing person, you're doing the same thing to your business based on your own personal emotions and personal experiences.

And yeah, I mean, if it's a lifestyle business, then yeah, do whatever you want, right? But if you really want to grow your business. Then you should lean into the data, you know, the expert strategies that are working for others. And at a minimum, at least give it a try. So, you know,

Yeah, Neil, you brought up something to a second ago. You said right three months, right? How, how important do you think that having the patience? To get the results, because it seems like a lot of times someone say, well, you know, in here with [00:48:00] podcasting, right? Chris could talk probably for hours about pod fade, like, well, we did 10 episodes and we didn't get a bunch of downloads.

So we stopped doing it. So do you think that's part of the problem too, is like, you know, to build these threads, to make them strong, it, it takes consistency. It takes time. Uh, what, what are your thoughts on that? I mean, is there a point when you would say like, you know, this isn't working, maybe it goes back to the data.

Uh, if I

Yeah, you know, I say three months, but you're absolutely right. It takes, it takes a heck of a lot longer because guess what? It takes time to get to know people. Right. Think of the friends that you have. How long have you known them? Like decades for some people. So that's the problem is that all of this takes time, your relationships with the algorithms, your relationships with other social media users that have never met you in person.

You can't expect success overnight. So I say three months because in three months. You should see some traction. You should see some numbers moving in the right direction. And if not, it is time to take a step back and say, Hey, what are we doing here? But I think, [00:49:00] you know, if you're working with a competent team, like, like you guys, you should see, uh, things move in the right direction, but, but yes, it, it, it does take time, but you want to regularly see, are things moving positively, are things going the way that we thought they would go.

So before you begin, I would ask any service provider you're going to work with or any marketing person, or even me, where do you think we'll be in three months or where do you think we'll be in six months? And a lot of people are going to say, I don't know. I'm not a fortune teller and I'll tell you the same thing, but I will say in three months, you know, we should have hit some of these goals and Hey, why don't we add a little bit of paid?

Right. To help accelerate the reach of those goals or what have you, but yeah, it takes time. I mean, I remember there was a fractional CMO client that I had worked together six months, created a library of content, and then they, uh, they just pulled their plug on marketing and, and, um, you know, they basically.

Quit the startup, but they kept the blog going. And then six months later they were, they hit like six figure, uh, monthly, you [00:50:00] know, blog traffic, right? Which was much less before. Cause at some point the algorithm caught on and said, Hey, this is really great content. So yeah, it definitely does take time in an ideal world.

You'd give it six to 12 months, but at least in three months. And when I do like fractional CMO consulting, that's my minimum gig is like, Hey, let's work together for three months and you should get some ideas and some confidence and some data to support what I'm talking about. So that's the bare minimum.

It's not going to happen overnight, but the more time you can give it the better, but three, six, 12 months, that's sort of the timeline to get a feel if you're making progress or not.

Yeah. And it's also about developing the, the right, uh, KPIs, right. So like if it, you know, for podcasting, uh, for instance. You know, if, if you were like brand new, just starting podcasting, like, you know, episode zero. And, uh, you know, you, you, you want to develop your first 25 episodes or whatever, and you're targeting 10, 000 downloads.

It's like, okay, [00:51:00] whoa, let's talk about why we're doing this. Is it to generate More interest in, you know, you being booked as a speaker, you selling, you know, more books to generate more, you know, like let's, let's start to develop that because downloads for a podcast are really for sponsors are really for, and, and if you're just starting out a podcast and it's not hosted by Kim Kardashian or Jim fuse, it's probably not going to get a million downloads per episode.

Right? So I think it's, it's also like having a realistic conversation with people and just kind of saying, Hey, let me just. You know, I may not be the person to work with because, you know, most podcasts are not going to get that many, um, downloads and are you really wanting it just to get the downloads?

Because I think we have to develop other ways of. Like this is showing growth that I'm getting engagement here. I'm seeing more subscribers to the YouTube channel, whatever we're doing to try to generate, um, you know, those things [00:52:00] outside of downloads, I think is important.

Yeah, I mean, it's funny that there aren't that many businesses that do this, but I've seen a lot of savvy businesses use their podcast as a lead generator. They will interview target customers.

Oh yeah.

In their industry, and then they will follow up with, Hey, you know, really enjoying the conversation with you being in a free trial, what have you.

So there are very tactical ways of, of leveraging podcasts or using it to interview your customers, right. To deepen the relationship, to make them look good. So there's a lot of different ways to look at it. And you know, the funny thing about downloads, and this is what sort of changed my mind, how I got into live streaming.

My own podcast interviews is I won't say the guy's name, but he was getting like a lot of downloads, like 10, 000 downloads a month, which is really, really good, like top 1 percent probably. And, um, he, and then I listened to him later. He's like, Oh, you know, I'm hitting like 20, 000 downloads now. And I'm like, really?

Like, like how did you double? And he starts talking about how he got 10, 000 through podcast apps and then he got 10, 000 through YouTube views. And it made a [00:53:00] lot of sense because it's the same content by adding another channel for the same podcast content in video. He is now getting more visibility for the same content, and that should be included in the download numbers.

And that's just opened my mind to, Oh my gosh, like there are so many more YouTube viewers than podcast listeners. If you look at it that way, it's not that hard to double your number down to reach more people. And that's really what it's all about is reaching more people with your brand, with your voice, with your content.

And then if we repurpose the longer video into short form videos, you can imagine how many more, how much more visibility we're going to get from that. For our, our content, our podcasts, and therefore our brand. So the download number is a really funny thing when you look at it a little bit differently, especially when we include video in the mix, you can see how you can do it exponentially better to even satisfy those people who are looking for a number.

But you're absolutely right. It's not about the numbers. It's about gaining traction. Yes. You want to, you want to increase those numbers over time, but you know, it's like people that know nothing about podcasts that won a thousand downloads. Well, if you want to invest in the stock market, you look at [00:54:00] historical returns.

But you're not doing the same thing when you're talking about podcast downloads, because you don't, you have no data, you have no first party data. So at least my recommendation, and this is like the greatest tool, you know, I assume you two know about it as well, but there's a tool called refonic. com. And if you, yeah, and refund, it gives you an idea like, okay, find your competitors.

What are they getting? Right. Let's 10 percent of the downloads that they're getting, for instance, right. Or 20%. That's a more logical KPI because in really niche B2B industries, You're not going to get downloads in the hundreds of thousands, right? Um, it's going to be much smaller, but in B2B it's about quality, not quantity.

So you really need to manage the KPI. As you mentioned, there's so many different ways to look at KPIs, but hopefully for those that are on the sidelines about podcasting, hopefully they gave you some ideas,

Neil, this has been awesome. I can't believe it's flown by like crazy. And one thing we didn't do is to show everybody, Hey, go to neilschaffer. com. And for those of you listening, it's N E A L not I L because

[00:55:00] real Neil. Silence.

uh, marketing coach. Sorry about that. As I'm scrolling and doing 38 different things here, um, get the book digital threads. We just like. Barely. Barely scratch to the surface on the amount of value that you get. Grab the workbook because basically when he gets under your skin and you're like, I need to do this, you have applications that you can like open up and start, you know, increasing your.

Your value on what you're doing, getting found more, creating an email list, which is, you know, before you're doing the social and implementing all those things. Neil, this has been amazing. Where do you hang out most? Should they go find you on LinkedIn? Or are you, uh, I don't know, tick, I [00:56:00] see you're on all the tubes, but, uh, where, where is the one you like to hang out most?

Yeah, I just, uh, migrated from an iPhone 15 pro to 16 pro, and, uh, you And forgetting that I now lost the ability to download TikTok because of the restrictions. So yeah, I'm able to, my scheduler is still integrated with TikTok so I can still publish content there. But yeah, TikTok is not going to be the place.

Definitely LinkedIn. Um, I just, you know, we get to know more about each other's professional backgrounds and I think we can develop a deeper, you know, relationship that way. So find me on LinkedIn. Um, go to neilschafer. com publishing, you know, four blog posts a week, uh, consistently, and also have a podcast, your digital marketing coach.

And yeah, find me in one of those areas. And I'm, I'm, I'm the real Neil everywhere on social media. So Neil Schafer.

the real Neil, ladies and gentlemen, uh, thanks as always for joining deal casters, everybody, uh, here, uh, this has been so much great content that we really haven't been able to shout out all the people that are joining us, uh, in the chat Sue and thank you for joining us, Marco [00:57:00] Scott, Halcyon and George.

Thank you for, uh, for joining us in the chat and as always, don't fear the gear.

 

YOUR FEATURED DEALCASTERS PODCAST AUDIO EPISODES