Kirk Nugent - How Livestreaming Can Create Your Legacy

Chris Stone [00:00:01]:
Mr. Kirk nugent. Geek, speaker, preacher, the remote producer, live video coach, content creation, facilitator, online, church consultant, tech, media speaker, and of course, host of the show How It All Works. Mr. Kirk Nugent is in the house. Welcome, sir.

Kirk Nugent [00:00:21]:
Woohoo, man, I am excited to be here, guys. That's a mouth. So much, man.

Chris Stone [00:00:25]:
That's a mouthful.

Kirk Nugent [00:00:27]:
There's a lot. I'm looking at your comments. They're blowing up. I love this. Ryan is talking to me here. I see Monty Weaver is there as well. Listen, you guys have created a phenomenal space with Dealcasters Live. I am so excited to be here as your guest today. You guys have literally set the bar in terms of some of the formats and some of the things that can be done on this platform. So I am just humbled and excited to be here today. And I did manage to go live on Amazon. So we're live. Oh, all of you. All of us, I should say, are live on my page as well.

Chris Stone [00:01:03]:
All right, so we're simulcasting.

Kirk Nugent [00:01:06]:
That's correct. That is right.

Chris Stone [00:01:08]:
So, like, maybe a little friendly competition, right?

Kirk Nugent [00:01:11]:
Why not? I figured give the audience what they're looking for. You got more watching than I do. And that's fine. It's fine. Yeah, exactly.

Chris Stone [00:01:22]:
We're all on the same screen, aren't we?

Kirk Nugent [00:01:24]:
Absolutely.

Chris Stone [00:01:27]:
Well, awesome, man. And like I said earlier in the intro, I was shocked at the first video that I saw that I came across that was yours, Kirk.

Kirk Nugent [00:01:37]:
Wow.

Chris Stone [00:01:39]:
Because I thought, this is someone who has just crispy, clean video. First and foremost, sound, as you know, is paramount for what you do. And you were doing this video, and I thought, oh, man, this guy's got his. And so I started going down a little bit of the Kirk Nugent, Kirk R Nugent rabbit hole. And come to find out, you do have a history in the It space. You were doing a lot of stuff for nonprofits and faith based entities from an It computer perspective. But in terms of live stream video, you were doing video, but not necessarily what we know today as sort of live stream, YouTuber, Amazon, Live, that kind of stuff. So I'm super curious. How did you get to this point so quickly? What did you use from your past experiences, from composition, from what you were doing there? How did that apply from sort of, I guess, pandemic forward up to here? Because that's really when things really took off for you from a live stream perspective.

Kirk Nugent [00:02:52]:
Absolutely. I will tell you this. There's a number of components there, so let me just share it this way. The first time I went live, or my first foray into the live streaming world was back in 2008, 2009 was doing live streaming with a platform called Mogulus. How many in the chat know Mogulus? Go ahead and type that in. In the chat. If you remember Mogulus, then you come from way back and then Mogulus just to kind of bring that thing all the way forward. For those who are not familiar with Mogulus, mogulus was then changed its name or changed its stripes to a company called Livestream. And some of you are saying to yourselves, whoa, whoa, whoa. Livestream is a thing to do, not necessarily a company. Yes, and Livestream actually is still a company today. In fact, it was purchased by a company you're probably familiar with, and that is Vimeo. And Vimeo's whole entire back end is live stream. And even up into the time frame where I was doing live streaming for the university that I was CTO of, that university had all of this infrastructure, I mean, all of the big stuff, the rack mounted infrastructure that we would have fiber connections going across campus. We could stream from our broadcast studio, we could stream from the main auditorium on campus, and we could stream from the church on campus from all of those places. But we also had our own curated TV station, if you will. So it was a little bit of this, a little bit of that, a little bit of NBC, little bit of CNN, little bit of our own content, and own what I like to call propaganda. Right. You put your own stuff out there. And then we had that streaming on a page of the university's website called Media Oakwood.edu, and that was also done with live streaming. And back. In those times, Chris, you actually couldn't stream to Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, Twitter. I'm talking about 2008, 2009. You had to stream directly to the platform. So we streamed to Mogulus, and we had sometimes thousands of people watching at a time, and they'd be literally watching from all over the world. We did a show called ay Live. It's called Adventist Youth Live. And we had guest moderators, and we had a chat moderator who was literally on stage with an iPad in his hand. And they would talk to the comments, essentially. We couldn't bring the comments on screen. That's a new thing. But we were doing a lot of the components of what you see in live streaming now. We were doing that back then. Right there, you're already kind of getting a picture of, oh, okay. So you just kind of stole those practices and principles and use them when the pandemic hit. Yeah, that is absolutely correct. I took a break from Media anything, really. Kind of took a position as a missionary overseas. I was It director for NGO in South Africa, and my wife and I and my family, we lived there for five years. Wow. And in that time frame, as the It director, they wanted somebody to manage the Media team. And they're like, hey, Kirk, since you're It, you do media, right? I'm like, well, not really, but I'll take it. This was much more traditional content. The Media team was actually involved with manning a 24 hours TV station. And so they were very much formal, like set design, full rig with you, record a season, break it all down. There was a carpenter. There was all kinds of things on this team. So I learned a lot. I mean, talk about baptism by fire. And so I actually decided to dive into that world by starting my own YouTube channel and doing videos about my weight loss journey. So if you go way back on my YouTube channel, there's still a playlist there right now talking about fitness. And I took the insanity challenge by Shaun T. 90 day challenge. Yes. And I lost like, 40 pounds between that challenge and the T 25 series that Shaunti did. I lost a lot of weight, and I Vlogged my way through that was my accountability hack, was just Vlogging my way through it. Those were my first forays into kind of content creation formally on YouTube. Didn't really do very well in terms of subscribers. I didn't follow any of the rules, so that netted me about 60 or so subscribers. And then I just kind of put that to bed for a number of years. And then when the pandemic hit, I decided to really make a go of this content creation and to take the skills and talents I had from formal broadcast, put that into, like, live video and live streaming. StreamYard was one of the platforms that just blew my mind. I could not believe what was possible in a browser. And I just really took all of that long history of broadcast into StreamYard, and I began poking holes in these artificial walls that people said, no, you can't do that with StreamYard. I'm like, okay, watch this. You could do this. You could try this. What about this? What about that? And some of those videos have definitely gone on to do very well. Just like you said when we started up, Chris, that's one of the first videos you saw of me was me poking some of those holes into the Stream yard.

Jim Fuhs [00:07:53]:
Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:07:53]:
Well, one of the things that I'm very encouraged by you is that I can tell you have this this spirit of excellence.

Kirk Nugent [00:08:01]:
Oh, man.

Jim Fuhs [00:08:02]:
Wow.

Chris Stone [00:08:02]:
And there there's something that where it doesn't matter if there's three people watching you right now.

Kirk Nugent [00:08:08]:
That's right.

Chris Stone [00:08:09]:
It doesn't matter if there's 300,000 people watching you right now. This is what you get. I met this gentleman at Social Media Marketing World a few weeks ago in San Diego, and I can promise you, the gentleman that is on your screen is the gentleman that I spent time with and the gentleman who's saying Happy birthday to me live on Wave video.

Kirk Nugent [00:08:28]:
That's right. I forgot about that.

Chris Stone [00:08:33]:
I feel like a lot of people, when they fire up the video cam, it's one thing they get that mind junk, right? You're a live streaming coach, and everybody gets stuck on the tech and stuck on all of that stuff. It wasn't overnight that you had the A 6400 camera and the crispy sound. Not at all. But you treated every show like it was something that you could do your best at.

Kirk Nugent [00:08:58]:
Yes.

Chris Stone [00:08:59]:
What you have right now is what is doing your best, and that's really a spirit of excellence. It's like, you know what? That's not going to work, but it's not going to keep me from going forward. It's not going to keep me from doing this. When you work with Live Streamers and I'm sure there's varying degrees of knowledge of tech but also varying degrees of the content that they're delivering as well. What kind of stuff are you working on with them when they get sort of stuck on the tech where they get sort of stuck on the content or they're too focused on the tech and not enough on the content? What are some of the mindsets that you work with based on your experience?

Kirk Nugent [00:09:42]:
Yeah, and this is such a great question. In fact, this is how I start a lot of videos, especially on Amazon, where it's very gear focused. People are shopping, and hello to all the shoppers that are out there, hello to all the others who are watching on all the other platforms that we're streaming on, because I know Dealcasters keeps it all the way live, but one of the things I like to say to folks is there's got to be a why. There's got to be an actual purpose or reason why you're going live. And that purpose and that reason is what will cause you not cause that's what will motivate you to learn the tech in order to get your message out there. But if you're if your if your reason is just because I want to show up on camera like Kirk, I want to look like you on camera, is that the only reason why you're going live? Because if that's the only reason, I'll tell you right now that's not why I go live. I go live because I know that there are people who have a message out there, and quite selfishly, I recognize there are people who are waiting for you to get your message out there for them to do their thing. So it's a critical piece of their story for you to get your story out there. And what I feel like I've been called to do is just to empower and enable people to get their message out there. So in whatever way that takes shape or form right. You talked about coaching Chris, and that's exactly what I do. I try to help people to refocus on what you're doing. What are we out here looking to achieve? What do we want people to walk away with? What is that experience? And a lot of the times, all of the tech kind of fades away at that point because they do have a burning desire, and then it becomes very apparent to them like, yeah, I really do want to get this out. And I don't care what I have to do to figure out the ISO, the aperture, the F stop, which lens, the millimeters, all of the things. I don't really care what I need to do to figure out those pieces because my overarching goal, that's my main motivation, and that's what will keep you driving forward. I like to tell people that you can start with what you have because there is no such thing as having no bad live streams. There's no such thing. And the only way to get to the good live streams is to get through the bad ones. So it doesn't matter. I don't care who you are. They're both Jim and Chris are Chris shaking their heads right now because they know I don't care who you are. Go back to your first live stream. Today's livestream is going to be better than that one. It doesn't matter how you started. It's going to be better. There's a progression. And here's the other piece, and this is so critical. Your audience wants to take the journey with you, so don't hide it from them, right? You don't hide it from them. Yeah, I've got this thing duct tape up here. Yeah, my camera fell over last week, and I'm hoping that it stays balanced today and that we don't have that today. But those that remember when the camera fell over, you're part of a special crew. You're part of a special tribe, right? You remember me when it wasn't so crispy. You remember me when you couldn't quite see what was that, a gray hair in his beard? Or is that something else? You remember me when you couldn't tell what was on the T shirt because you've been taking this journey with me, and that becomes a badge of honor. People talk about building your community, building your tribe, and building your audience. This is a part of that process. You almost have that built in tier system. If you allow people to take the journey with you, you don't allow them to take you show up looking like this on day one, then people don't really have that trajectory. I worked in higher ed for a number of years, and one of the things that the younger guys always said to us, these are the student workers that we had in the tech shop with us is that they said, we love working with you guys because we recognize that you're just like us. You're just a few steps ahead of us on the journey. You're just a few steps ahead of us. And so we can learn from you as you continue to progress.

Jim Fuhs [00:13:30]:
And they probably also feel like you're older guys and you're able to do this. It'll be easy for us.

Kirk Nugent [00:13:35]:
It'll be easier for us. Yeah. There's so much there, man. Listen, I'm a talker, so I'm going to try and that's the idea.

Jim Fuhs [00:13:43]:
I did want to ask you because one of the things that I really it was mind blowing to me. I was watching one of your recent videos where you were talking I think well, you've been talking about Wave, you've been talking about EV MUX.

Kirk Nugent [00:13:56]:
Right.

Jim Fuhs [00:13:56]:
But I love how you explain, like, there's a difference between the browser based and the downloaded live streaming software. But I also think, and I know you're digging into it big time, how different and how we're being given these options and these capabilities. I mean, we all love StreamYard, right? It's got its place, but it's this whole right. You got to constantly be learning because now we've got ways we can present things differently, more engaging. I mean, what do you think of what's going on in the live streaming space?

Kirk Nugent [00:14:29]:
I think there's no better time because it is ever evolving. And I think a lot of times we approach this conversation as fanboys or fangirls because that's what Apple has done to all of us. It's like either you're Apple or you're nothing else. I do hold an iPhone, and I'm a bit upset with Amazon because they don't like my Android, but that's okay, right. But this is how we approach these conversations a lot of times is I have my flag and I'm a StreamYard guy, or a StreamYard girl, or I'm an ecamm. Oh, we can't mix or mingle. I won't lie, I get a lot of flak for that. But I think that us as consumers, it could never have been a better time. Like when there is genuine I don't mean petty, I mean genuine, good, healthy competition in the marketplace. We as consumers always win. We always win. Somebody's going to push the envelope. Restream is doing something over there, and they've got some features that are just, wow, okay. But then there are other things I don't like about Restream. StreamYard has that stability. That's why I keep coming back. It's why it's my go to. It just has that and then the guest experience in StreamYard, and then you have an EV MUX or a Wave video that comes along and they're merging and they're melding the different tiers, and you almost don't know where to put them. And they're giving you a feature set and functions that you never have thought, okay, would I have ever gotten this in a browser before? And the others have to take a look because their customer base is saying, oh, that's what we've been asking our guys for, for quite some time. This is, I think, a great space for us all to be in. I'm not saying that anybody needs to make a shift. I always say that to folks, is you need to have that list of non negotiables that you need out of a streaming platform, and you don't change that. Right? These are my non negotiables, and I need these things. And if you can't give me those things. I'm going to stay where I'm at, no matter how shiny, how nice your toys and functions and features look. But I really believe that, especially as we look at the different tiers. Tier one being your phone, right? Your mobile phone. It's just as simple as that. There's nothing between you and your streaming platform. It's literally the phone and microphone on your phone. Boom, you hit live and you're good. So tier one, tier two, web based. This is where we're doing right now, streaming in the browser. And what they've been able to do with a browser is mind blowing, honestly. And I know that a lot of people who are getting into the live video space now haven't taken the time to really look at the history of broadcast and television, which live video finds its root in television. There is so much that they have condensed into a browser. I just need people to understand that, like being able to switch the cameras around and all that stuff. This was a 1015 person team, and I've seen them. And so there is a reverence that I think a lot of us newcomers, I include myself there as well, because I don't feel like I come from that rich history of broadcast. But there's a lot of us that a lot of reverence that us newcomers need to approach the space with so that your expectations are tempered. That's a good piece because you get to the town hall sometime and people are asking questions about, well, why can't we do this? And you're like, Man, I wonder, do they really understand what that's going to require?

Jim Fuhs [00:17:49]:
Right?

Kirk Nugent [00:17:51]:
It's going to take like what they've done already is actually pretty phenomenal. So then you have tier three, and tier three is, of course, installed. Like some people will say, Zoom, please take that out of your Cocabulary. Zoom is not a streaming platform. It's not a broadcast platform. It's a meeting platform. Zoom has said that multiple times. I wish they would just take off the ability to stream in Zoom. But it is installed. It is installed. And so it does somehow find its way into that third category, that tier three category. Then you've got OBS, of course, which is free, somewhat complicated, in Kirk's opinion. I had a guy on my show this past Friday who really knows how to make it sing, and I'm looking to partner with him a little more, because, again, that is a platform. That is an option. You do have Vmix and you have Ecamm live. You have wirecast, right? There's so many installed tier three applications that you can use, and they are phenomenal. And then there's tier four. And that's the broadcast suites. That's the big boy stuff. That's your whole blackmagic stack that you have. And you got the whole full switcher and all that stuff. So there are so many different ways that we can look at that thing. I love the tiered approach because it also helps people to understand in terms of comparison. Like, you're not really comparing apples to apples. When you say man, I like, let's say B live over Vmix. Vmix is not they're not in the same category. So they're offering you two totally different things. And so to compare them, we need to educate you a little bit on that part. But the main thing I come back to, Jim, is whatever platform allows you to get it done is the best platform for you.

Jim Fuhs [00:19:31]:
That's right.

Kirk Nugent [00:19:33]:
Done is better.

Chris Stone [00:19:34]:
Yes. The three of us on the screen now are remote producers. Right. This is what we do as one of our streams of income in the creator economy. We do what we're doing here for other people. That's part of what we do. And Kirk, you and I both know that, and Jim as well. When you're in a conversation with a prospective client and they want to do X, Y, and Z, but in your mind, you go, well, this software can't do it. Well, if I had this software and I combined it with this software and I did this and I did this, I might be able to the answer is first yes. And then we figure out how to do it.

Kirk Nugent [00:20:14]:
I totally agree.

Chris Stone [00:20:15]:
That's how you do it. And it's like the Pandemic, if it's taught us anything, is that this rising tide lifts all ships. In terms of this, the tech is getting better. The tech is getting exponentially better. And I love when you touched on having the reverence for the history. That's really where I was going with my first question. It was sort of like if you have that mindset of where it used to take 15 people to do what you can do now with a hotkey and hit a button on a stream deck, I mean, that makes you want to do the work.

Kirk Nugent [00:20:48]:
Yes.

Chris Stone [00:20:49]:
Because you went through hours and hours and hours to do that one thing. Now, how can I put work into that to make it this much better?

Kirk Nugent [00:20:58]:
Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:20:59]:
So I love that you touched on the reverence piece.

Kirk Nugent [00:21:01]:
Yeah, that is so good. I'm looking at your comments on both sides. I've got somebody on my Amazon. Steve woods. What's good? FAM? I see you out there. Who else is out there? Steven woods is there. Rome Wilkerson is over there as well. Word of welcome to you guys. And then, of course, I see Jim and Ryan and Doug and Sam and a few others in the chat on your side. And then I just love the comments.

Jim Fuhs [00:21:25]:
I love and I think Ryan asked an interesting question, too. He goes, and I know at least I don't. Chris, I know you were in the music industry, but not coming from a traditional broadcast platform. How many live streamers do we know that came from that? I would say it's really a small handful for me, I don't know about you guys, if you know a ton that made that transition, because I think some of them may still be in that space. But like I know Howie Zales that's been on the Tim and Jim Show before. He came from that space. And he's using Vmix to do a lot of virtual production and he's taking in some of those lessons he learned. And I think that's where we as remote producers, live streamers in general, start to learn like, okay, how do I do multiple cameras? How do I deal with lighting? How do I deal with sound if I've got multiple people in the room?

Kirk Nugent [00:22:20]:
The way you said that Jim is perfect. And that's what I just want to piggyback there on for Ryan, is I don't know of many either. And I think the reason for that is it's a different headspace in. That not to say it's impossible for them, but you had a very specific lane in the traditional broadcast space. So if you were doing color correction, you really weren't doing anything else. You weren't doing switching, you weren't bringing in the feeds, you weren't RTMP. What's that? It's very possible for a camera operator who just has the headset on and let's say they're camera three, they're the main camera, and they're like, hey, pull in tight. You're listening for the cues from the technical director. So there's so many people that when we live stream, that we are replacing with just us. And so especially those who come from that broadcast space, when I chat with them, because I do know a good amount in that space, when I talk with them, they often will say things like, man, that's like 20 jobs. Just the fact that you hit that button to bring up that caption on your stream, that's a whole nother person's job. Like bringing that graphic on, that's another person's job, right? So there is that they're trying to shrink down all of that and bring it into that one lane. It is a different mind space. So you are going to find a lot more new people, people who did not have that background. But I do think that things like why do I need a countdown clock? What is a 720p versus 1080p? What are my frames per second? Those are things that you will find the crux of your answer in traditional broadcast. And I think when we have that level of again, reverence for the craft, right? Because this is somebody's vocation be clear about this, but I also want to give some context, right? I'll give you this context. There was a time where each company had one person that sent emails and you would write your note on a paper, you'd drop it off at that person's desk, and they would type up the email and they would send in each organization, thousands of people had one email address. And so now we all email multiple times a day on our phone, sometimes a one liner with no punctuation or capitalization. Right. So it's a natural evolution of the thing. But there probably was somebody at one point in time who was like, what do you mean? You type the email and you send the email. That's like four people's jobs. So it's that similar kind of context that we need to approach this space with live streaming. We are seeing an entire new era dawn and I hope that everybody kind of gets that part. Great question, Ryan.

Chris Stone [00:25:02]:
Yeah, take it seriously and have that reverence, I think is point. Do you think when you mentioned mindset television to live streaming, I also equate this radio to podcasting is that those that were in television broadcast and now the way they view live streaming, those that were in radio and now that they're and how they view podcasting, it's like, oh, well, this is just a lower rate version of what that is. Well, Jim mentioned I was in the music industry. Well, the music industry thought the MP3 was a lower rate version of a compact disc and look where it got them.

Kirk Nugent [00:25:38]:
There you go.

Chris Stone [00:25:38]:
So you can't be this Titanic in the water trying to make a turn. You got to be a shark and you got to move where it's moving. And if you have, like, what you did, this is this sort of goes back to the Kirk Nugent story, is you had all of this television broadcast experience and you said, you know what? I'm going on my own, and I'm going to do a show, my own show. Whether it was your weight loss journey or whether it was any of the other shows that you've done, And I'm going to be that shark. Because I don't know if you're necessarily thinking that television broadcasting was a sinking ship and in a lot of ways it's really not.

Kirk Nugent [00:26:20]:
It's a different medium.

Chris Stone [00:26:21]:
It is different. You saw that. Did you see sort of that happening and that was kind of like your way? Or was it more of a passion for you to be able to learn that as an It professional?

Kirk Nugent [00:26:35]:
So it was a passion of mine. But I'll tell you what it really was. And this is one of the things that I do for companies and businesses and brands and thought leaders is there was a way that I had been involved in doing a lot of different projects for other people, and I would bring these ideas to the table, but it wasn't my project. So I was saying to myself, man, if I had a show for myself, I could show people what a Kirk show looks like because I would come to the table and I would speak to the client and be like, oh, you could do this or you could do this. And they'd be like bringing a guest from across the country. I don't think that'll work. No, Kirk, I think that's too much. And I'm like, no, but it could be awesome. So my show, this is what I like to tell people. My live stream, my live show is my digital storefront. This is where I get to show people what I can do. And a lot of the clientele, you know what it is with remote production, they will come and they'll see my show, and they'll be like, hey, Kirk, I'd like to chat with you. Want you to produce something for me.

Jim Fuhs [00:27:42]:
Okay.

Kirk Nugent [00:27:42]:
Did you have something in mind? Season two, episode six, that design exactly what you did with that guy, I want you to do that for me. And so my show becomes the catalog, the magazine that they can flip through and say, that's dope. I never thought about doing something like that. And so my show, I get to do stuff that absolutely fails, and I get to do stuff that absolutely wins. It's like a huge victory. And then people see it, and they're like, oh, okay. So my show yes, I try to provide value. Yes, I try to answer a question. Yes, I try I'm trying to grow an audience around this thing, but it is my lab, if you will. That's where I get to test some things out and see what works. And people get to see that behind the scenes, Nutty Professor type scenario. And, yeah, that's my idea. That's what I brought.

Jim Fuhs [00:28:31]:
I think that's where we're kindred spirits, because that's what Chris and I like to do, too, is we're always like because it's that whole thing. Maybe because my background, being in the military, I don't like when people tell me, no, I'm going to figure out a way to do it. And especially with technology, things are constantly changing. I mean, some of the stuff we have in the product carousel, like even you were talking about switching scenes or the stream deck is amazing at doing that. It makes your life so much easier. And it's funny because right, we've all got the excel, but people will start out with the eight or the 16, and I just tell people, don't waste your time. Just get the other one, because later you'll wish you had all those buttons.

Kirk Nugent [00:29:09]:
You will. It's the truth. It's the truth. It's the truth.

Chris Stone [00:29:14]:
Our boy Monty Weaver. Shout out to Monty Weaver over on Amazon with the hashtag digital Storefront. Yeah, there's going to be Monty. There's going to be lots of knowledge nuggets being tossed about here from our friend Kirkr. Nugent. Got to get the Kirkrnugent.com. Thank you, Kirk. We're excited to have you down in Orlando for VIDFEST. And speaking of Monty Weaver, who will also be there oh, yeah. And any way you can give us sort of a taste of what you're looking to speak to down at VIDFEST in Orlando?

Kirk Nugent [00:29:55]:
Yeah, I'm trying to think of the best way to give a taste. The truth. Is a lot of people don't recognize the ridiculous potential and opportunity that is in Amazon live. I'll say this way. In 20 years, right? In 20 years, like 20 years from now until 25th 20 what? 2042. In 2042, there's going to be a young man, a young woman who's, like, freshman in college. They're 17. That means they're not alive right now, is what I'm trying to say to you, okay? And they're going to ask you, when the world shifted as I'm learning about live streaming in my history book, what did you do? What were you doing? How did you plug into that time frame? Hey, grandpa. Hey, uncle. Hey, older cousin. Hey, Sage. Person that I come to for advice. Tell me what happened when our version of the man on the Moon landed and information and access was democratized and you were able to share your message with the world ad nauseam, what did you do? Tell tell me your story. And I think this is what people don't recognize about the moment that we're in. And so I'll finish that story in Orlando.

Jim Fuhs [00:31:20]:
I got FOMO I got to be there, which I will be.

Chris Stone [00:31:23]:
You know, somebody was in broadcast when they leave a tease like that out on the table, man.

Jim Fuhs [00:31:28]:
But, Kirk, one of the things, too, that you bring up, and I think it is fascinating, especially knowing that you have a really good presence on YouTube, but you, if you want to call it, have kind of seen this life that is Amazon. And it's funny sometimes because Chris and I sometimes get I don't know if nobody picks on us, but I'll say people say things because Chris knows I bring out the Negan's baseball bat, but they like, why do you want to tell people about this platform? It's because we are thrilled that a creator such as yourself is now on the platform, because it makes us all better. It makes us all and then the companies like Amazon and these other places that she'll remain nameless since we're on Amazon. See, like, you know what? I need to start bringing people in to do that. And so it was fascinating. Roberto Blake, who we all know, had a video he put out last week about why you should get started on YouTube in 2022. And part of the thing is, you start to and Chris talks about the numbers. Like, when you talk about podcasters, even though there's millions of people on YouTube, as an example, it's less than 10% that have actually, I think, got 1000 or more subscribers. Well, when you look at Amazon, we don't know because they haven't published the numbers. There might be a couple of thousand of us that are influencers that can theoretically go live, but the people that are going live is even a smaller percentage because people give up. They don't stick to it. And there's some niches. I mean, Christina Nietzsche does a fitness show she's going to be she won't make it this year, but she hopefully will make it next time. Denise, who does art projects, I mean, Bradley Vincent doing the same thing, teaching people how to do graphics on Amazon.

Kirk Nugent [00:33:25]:
Phenomenal.

Chris Stone [00:33:26]:
And so it's like, if you've got.

Jim Fuhs [00:33:28]:
This niche on YouTube, why not do it over here? Because you can repurpose that content, put it on YouTube, and still keep building your YouTube audience. But I think when Chris and I look at it, because we kind of did things backwards in a way. We started on Amazon, and we're now growing our other platforms. But as much as we'd like to grow on YouTube, it's like things are really going well for us over here. Brands reach out to us every week. It's not like they're saying, oh, well, you don't have enough YouTube subscribers for us to talk because guess what? We're in the mall right now, and people are able to subscribe to Kirk's podcast right now here on Amazon Music. And that's where sometimes, I don't know if it's kind of going back to some of the different people that fall so in love with a certain thing that they don't see the forest through the trees, right? They're like, you got to be flexible. Because as much as we like some of these live streaming platforms, and I started out on one that I guess it's still around, but it's like that whole thing is you got to be prepared to shift and adjust, because it could happen like that. And if you put all your eggs in that one basket, then what?

Kirk Nugent [00:34:44]:
Right?

Jim Fuhs [00:34:44]:
And I think that's where I really respect and admire what you do. Like, you don't just sit there and say, well, I'm only going to do it this way. You sit there and look at all the different perspectives and teach people. It's like you got to have that open mind and that willingness to learn.

Kirk Nugent [00:35:01]:
Yeah, you said that so well, Jim. I'm just itching to add to it, but I really don't want to first of all, you have some phenomenal comments. I think what you just put up from Janae, and let me just say, shout out to Janae. This is somebody that I fast somebody I met online, but then I fast became friends with while in San Diego. So shout out to you, Janae. Just good to see you. I got India Delgado over on my side. Gary Jones is on the Amazon live side. I just want to say word of greetings to all of you guys, but this is a critical conversation. I think that perspective shift that Jim is talking about, that Chris is talking about, that we've been kind of touching on here, this is not a techie thing. This is like having a driver's license. Live streaming is like having the ability to drive. That's it. And we are simply teaching you how to use this vehicle. And so on Amazon, what we get to tell you is like, okay, buy these tires, right? These tires are good. This is really what it is. Use this oil. Use this oil. This oil is a good oil. And I've used this oil myself in my car, and it gets me from point A to point B. And it's a great experience. I wanted to break it down into terms that people can really latch on to, because I know for me and you guys can attest to this, there are a lot of people out there that will do things on Amazon with stuff that they don't you actually use. I try to tell people about stuff that I actually use, not because sure sent me the mic, but because I already had one and sure saw it and they said, okay, let's send you another. What that means, and I always say this on my show, is if you see me with two items, you need to be looking for the giveaway. If you see me with two items, you need to be looking for the giveaway. But the point the point is and this is where the growth happens also, right? So for those that are watching Dealcasters, and you haven't hit that follow button, when you hit the follow button, you're telling Amazon, this is good, this is working. You're also telling the brands, keep sending them stuff because we're going to keep watching, we're going to keep buying, we're going to keep dialing into what they have to have going on. And so as you guys, brands and Amazon invest in Chris and Jim, we, the audience will also invest in them as well, because you've created this bridge between the two, and that's what it's really about for the person out there that's like, well, I'm into underwater basket weaving, or I'm a public speaker, or I teach ballet. It all still works for you, too. It doesn't matter what your thing is. That's why I say, do you want to get somewhere? This is why I liken it to drive. So having that drive is licensed. Do you want to go somewhere? If you want to go somewhere, you're probably going to need to have a license because you're going to need to learn how to drive a car. And if you want to take your thing, your message, your brand, your passion project, your hustle, put it on a large stage and trying a huge floodlight on it, try live streaming. Try live streaming.

Jim Fuhs [00:38:13]:
Yeah.

Chris Stone [00:38:14]:
God, this is so good. It's like the analogy is so awesome. But I think there's one thing I would add. There's no speed limit yet.

Kirk Nugent [00:38:23]:
Oh, wow.

Chris Stone [00:38:26]:
There's no speed limit. We don't have rules. I mean, there's rules, but like, human rules. Like, you can't say certain things. You can't disparage people. You shouldn't want to do that anyway. Right? But there's no speed limit, and I want to touch on something else, man, I could talk for 3 hours to you, man. Jim mentioned earlier, jim and I catch a lot of flak for Evangelizing, for this platform. And as content creators in this creator economy, each one of us has a voice. Our voices are not for everyone. I don't look at any person on the screen or any person that is loading up. Look at all the blue checks in the Amazon Live chat right now. A lot of them, none of these people are my competition.

Kirk Nugent [00:39:18]:
Zero.

Chris Stone [00:39:19]:
None of these people I compete against. Okay? So we're not in this to make money. I don't think you understand. This is not our number one thing that drives us. And by the way, if it was, you still wouldn't be my competition because especially on Amazon. Do you how many millions of products come out on Amazon every single day? And so this is not competition, and this pool is shallow right now. And so we're going to do our best to Evangelize for the platform and help others that are doing it the right way, like Kirk Nugent is on your screen right now.

Kirk Nugent [00:40:03]:
Thank you.

Chris Stone [00:40:03]:
And try to get more people not only following Kirk Nugent, because dang, seriously, how much longer can we go? But let's get this thing better. Let's make this thing better and make YouTube better and make Twitch better and make these things better, too. So there's nothing wrong with it. And not because oats, be quiet. Don't tell them about Amazon. This is no secret. This is no secret at all. Trust me.

Kirk Nugent [00:40:35]:
No.

Chris Stone [00:40:36]:
And the content creators, once they figure out how to do it and it works for them, it's just going to get better for all of us.

Kirk Nugent [00:40:43]:
Love it. I love it. Your chat is just absolutely blowing up. I just love it. I love it. Just looking at comments. And of course, these are names that I know. Christina nietzsche's out there. I love that. Oh, yeah. Not unless Chris Don wants to start eating cookies. Oh, my goodness.

Chris Stone [00:41:02]:
Yeah, that's an inside joke, but yeah. We just put out the podcast, the audio version of the interview with Christina Nietzsche on Dealcasters. Speaking of podcast, Kirk, your podcast, how it all works. Amazing. We've got that in the carousel. So I know these people are lighting up this star button over on our side. Nice. Just go down to that carousel, click Kirk's podcast, follow it. It's free. You get Kirk Nugent for free in your ears every day when you want it. I can't imagine what could be better than that.

Kirk Nugent [00:41:36]:
Amazing.

Chris Stone [00:41:36]:
I mean, I'm sure your wife listens to nothing but your podcast all day long, right?

Kirk Nugent [00:41:40]:
You know, one of my biggest fans is actually my mom. She listens when I call my dad and he'll be like, I feel like I see you every day because your mother just has your stuff on repeat over and over, but exactly. That is a huge testament to what I'm doing. And she's excited about it, and she recognizes the value of it. She's like, you found your thing. You found a way for you to really share all this passion that you've had since you were a child till now. And I've watched this thing, and you focused it into one particular area, and you're able to help people. And that's the thing for me. And I think that's why we resonate Jim and Chris. This is why we are kindred spirits, because it is really an attempt to help people. I love Amazon Live for the fact that people are shopping and I can help somebody get not only some perspective on a given item, but also I can help them to avoid what I dealt with, right? These are the things and I always challenge folks to think about, why are you coming to the platform? And for a lot of people, and I won't lie, I held off because I was like, well, I don't want to just do a money grab. I want to really see what the value prop is position is of being on Amazon Live. And once I realized what that is and how much it meshed with my particular flavor of live video coaching, I was like, I got to be on the platform. It's just too closely aligned with me. And what I tell people to do regularly, I mean, every day I I sell say to folks, take what you have to offer, your product, your service, share it with them live, share it with people. Live. Just a taste. And they're going to be like, where can I get the full meal? This was too much of a teaser. I want more. I want more. Where can I get more of you? So many different people that I'm working with, some I can name, some I can't, but there's just so much opportunity with live streaming live video, and I think live shopping then becomes even the perfect extension of that because again, you're helping people from this. You're not buying from Chris and Jen.

Jim Fuhs [00:43:52]:
Well, and I think the other thing, they're going to get a cut, but.

Kirk Nugent [00:43:55]:
You'Re not buying from them. They're sharing with you. This is what we think.

Jim Fuhs [00:43:59]:
I don't know if this has happened for you. It's definitely happened for us, but I wouldn't be surprised if it hasn't, is we'll be talking about something, right? And this is where I know Chris and I love when somebody's like, thanks for helping me pick out a microphone. I'm now starting my podcast, or I'm starting my live stream because people get sometimes it's like, Chris likes to get the mind junk of, like, I got to do this and I got to do that. And we were able to live, right? Kind of talk them through that process if they engage in the chat. And that's, I think, part of the beauty of this platform, because people are here looking for the stuff you're talking about. This video is literally playing live on some of the product pages of some of the products we have. And so if someone asks a question like, well, what's the camera that you're using that makes your picture look so good? Or how does your voice sound so good? It's like, well, this is why. And to your point, we're using the stuff that we talk about. We're not going to just do anything. I want to give a quick shout out to our friend Mitch Jackson, who's in the chat as well. And Mitch is crushing it with the Web 3.0 and the Metaverse and talking about the Oculus Quest, too, as an example, which is another product that we have usually we don't have in the carousel right now, but this is where people can learn about these things in real time. And that's, I think, the beauty of the live streaming and recorded. It doesn't always happen right now. Right. People are watching us live because they're already here. When you're on YouTube, sometimes you're hoping they're going to come watch you. They may watch the recording, but it's also the whole mindset of the length of content people will watch. And I think what people miss on live shopping, especially with Amazon, is if you want to sell things, you don't have to deal with the logistics. If you're on Amazon, I'm live selling on Facebook or these other things. Am I going to mail it? Am I going to have to deal with returns and come on, that's a huge thing. You can go to Whole Foods and return your stuff or Coles. They got it figured out.

Kirk Nugent [00:46:04]:
Yeah. Again, you guys hit on all of the value, all those potential pieces, and it's always great to see that light bulb go on when you're talking with somebody and you say something and you see them kind of look, oh, okay, that's an open door. I met a lady in San Diego, and she actually is coming from that Home Shopping Network world, used to be on Home Shopping Network doing the items and things. And so she's now starting up on Amazon live, and I'm telling her, you're.

Jim Fuhs [00:46:40]:
Going to kill it.

Chris Stone [00:46:42]:
I think the other thing is, it's not just live selling. It could be you doing because I know you do a number of things, Kirk, whether it's courses, live coaching, group coaching masterminds. I know you do all the things right, Kirkartnugent.com, for those of you who are watching and listening. But for me, and it goes back to the first time I saw you.

Jim Fuhs [00:47:07]:
Do a video, when you see somebody.

Chris Stone [00:47:09]:
Do a live video, you know exactly if that person you can look in their eyes and know whether or not this is a person you're going to follow them up or not. You just know it.

Kirk Nugent [00:47:20]:
It is.

Chris Stone [00:47:21]:
And if someone's put together some really listen, I do a lot of post edits on a lot of different videos, too. And I realize but at the end of the day, I leave UMS, and Oz and Word repeats and things like that in because guess what? That's me. So when you meet me, I'm probably going to say that. I'm probably going to say those things. But that was one of the things that I loved about meeting you finally face to face at Social Media Marketing World in San Diego and others as well. There was other folks that I met that I was like, god, that's the same person that we had on our show or, that's the same person I was on their show or that I had met. And it's just wonderful to see that and sort of just to validate that. And especially when you sang me Happy Birthday, I was like, okay, all right. This guy, if he's going to sing me Happy Birthday, he's just going to have to be friends for life, man.

Kirk Nugent [00:48:16]:
This is it, man. I was excited to do it, and it worked out so well. So awesome, man.

Chris Stone [00:48:23]:
If Kirk Nugent couldn't do just all the things, now he has to sing really well, too. God, anything?

Jim Fuhs [00:48:31]:
I'm thinking there's nothing he can't do. It's just a matter of if you put your mind to it, Kirk, I'm sure that you will succeed. No doubt.

Kirk Nugent [00:48:41]:
Like that. There's such a mindset thing there. I'm not going to dive in any further, but there's such a mindset thing. I think people are hungry for a very authentic experience, and I think that's what Live allows them to have. And it doesn't matter what flavor that takes on, right? So if that flavor is an Amazon flavor, they'll take it because they recognize it's still that person that I'm looking for, still that real person, that real experience, that authentic thing, that's unedited. It's why I love Live, because it is unedited. It is happening in the moment. And this is another, as we said, FOMO type thing as well, where people are going to watch Live a lot longer than they would watch pre recorded. Because they figure, like, I'm going to miss something. Like something's going to happen and I don't want to miss it. So there's a huge component there as well.

Jim Fuhs [00:49:34]:
But, man, the interaction, too.

Chris Stone [00:49:38]:
You do it better than we do because you were jumping in on it on our own show here more than we are. But I think that's a huge component of Live video. It's like, you know what? Kirkpidge is on my screen, and I was wondering about that. Sure, MV 88 mike and it worked with XLR as opposed to USB. Let me just fire out this question. They know you're going to answer it because you're getting to all the questions.

Kirk Nugent [00:50:06]:
That'S it in coaching. That's one of the things I share with people is it is a two way conversation. A two way conversation. You're not just putting stuff out there, you have to expect stuff back. And as you get it back, you want to be able to respond. So it's great. And even if you have to respond after the fact, one of the reasons why I love how these things work on other platforms, you can go back and respond to some of those comments directly. But here one of the things that I do, and Chris, we talked about this, was I like to bring those comments on screen because people watching the replay can actually see those comments, and they can see, oh, okay. Oh, that's what they asked. So I like to flip between those every now and again, because it does give people the fuller picture of both sides of that conversation.

Jim Fuhs [00:50:53]:
And that's something we actually have to give you credit for, Kirk, is we learned, as Chris likes to call it, Chat alicia, we learned from watching one of your shows. And so when we use Ecamm, we came up with that scene that lets us share the chat. So one of these days, when we have a little more confidence in one of these other platforms, when we have a guest, that's definitely something we want to be able to pull in, because that is a nice feature to be able to share that after the fact. Because especially what people don't realize, at least right now on Amazon, we're not able to pull the chat comments on the screen. And, of course, on the screen, hopefully that's something that they'll look for, and I think they're listening to us. So, Amazon, if you hear they are, that would be great if you could work that in.

Chris Stone [00:51:39]:
It was an idea that when we had a conversation about that, Kirk, is like, I repurposed that concept of doing that. And I was just doing it because I thought, well, what a cool idea to be able to have the Amazon Chat on your screen at the same time. And then you said, Well, I did it because people watch the replays and you don't get the chats on the replays. And I was like, Duh, of course. That's a fantastic idea. I didn't even think about the replays. I just thought it looked cool.

Kirk Nugent [00:52:07]:
You hit the nail on the head. I think these ideas come from that desire to have that engagement. I think that's what you always find with me. And I think that's, again, one of the reasons why we resonate and why we're here chatting today is we want you, who are in the chat to be successful with these things. Whatever it is, your thing is. I see headphones in there. I see the MV 88. I see the MV Five. I see the MV Five C. I see all kinds of things in the carousel right now. And these are items that each of us, all three of us have used multiple times in multiple different ways and configurations. And so while our job isn't necessarily to sell it to you, like, hey, you got to buy this Elgato 4K capture card. That's not our job, but we've used it. So if you have a question about it and you're thinking about purchasing it, then we want to get that question. We want to be able to respond to you and share with you our experiences, good and bad, so that you can make an informed decision. I always say that to my audience multiple times per show. Make an informed decision. Buy with confidence. When you can make an informed decision, you're inevitably going to buy with confidence, because that's what it's all about. And so that's why another reason why I absolutely love this platform.

Jim Fuhs [00:53:28]:
Well, and even to your point, and we tell people sometimes, like, if you're not sure, right, you could buy both products, and Amazon makes it so easy to return, right?

Kirk Nugent [00:53:37]:
Yeah. It has to be part of that thing. I say this to people with mics all the time. People will say to me, hey, man, Kirk. Oh, my God, I love your voice on that mic. What mic is that? Can you tell me? Just tell me the whole set. I want the whole thing. And I'm like, Well, I can do that, but your voice might sound different. Right. I say to them, Buy it at a time where you know you're not busy, so that you can test it, and if you don't like it, you can send it back. Because that's what happens to a lot of us, is that you'll buy something with the intention to test it, and then it sits in the box over there for, like, a month, and then you get the test, and you're like, this is not at all what I wanted, and it's now too late. I try to give people this context. This is the context. This is a perspective. I don't want you to waste your money, not because I'm going to get a cut. I want you to be successful with the gear, because I've been successful with it, and I want you to have that same experience, right?

Jim Fuhs [00:54:30]:
And I even going back to what you said earlier. We'll tell people, right? You could start with a phone, right? You don't have to have these cameras that we're using. And even sometimes I think the smartphone might be better than a webcam. Buy in the right cable to connect it directly to your computer so that you can use that. And those are things that people because sometimes I think people see these amazing setups like you have, and they don't realize it. You didn't do that overnight, and we haven't done this overnight. This has been no, for me, it's been four years, right? This has been a four year process that I've been live streaming, slowly upgrading. Last year, I got to actually have two monitors, right? Because I finally figured out I really needed to have. Two monitors. Two monitors to be able to do things right. And the lighting is a continual evolution as well, and things like soundproofing and all these little things that people don't think about. So there's not a one size fits all. And then, of course, like with the MV 88, if you're going to be doing mobile stuff right, and you want to have good audio, that's a whole nother ball of wax, I guess we could say.

Kirk Nugent [00:55:42]:
Yeah, different region. You're right. Totally. That's amazing, man.

Chris Stone [00:55:47]:
Kurt I knew it was going to be awesome. I didn't know it was going to be this awesome. I love the reverence perspective for those that are just now sort of getting into live streaming and understanding. Like, even just five years ago, there was a team of ten people doing what you can do with the click of a button now. And that perspective helps you to work hard and do the work it takes to be successful as a live streamer. And I also love the analogy about learning how to drive. I think it's an important mindset for people and for those that are still watching, listening. Kirkartnugent.com, this has been amazing. Kirk will be speaking at our event at VIDFEST in Orlando as well. VIDFEST dealcasters Live code Amazon for 20% off of those tickets. Kirk, thank you so much for taking all your time and just as usual, just delivering so much goodness to the world, man.

Jim Fuhs [00:56:49]:
We really thank you.

Kirk Nugent [00:56:50]:
Hey, man, my pleasure. Thank you guys so much for having me.

Jim Fuhs [00:56:52]:
All right.

Chris Stone [00:56:53]:
And as always, ladies and gentlemen, don't fear the gear.

Jim Fuhs [00:56:58]:
Thanks for listening to Dealcasters. Congratulations. You've taken another step forward in your content creation journey. Please don't forget to hit the subscribe or Follow button here in your favorite podcast player so you can be reminded every time we drop an episode.

Chris Stone [00:57:14]:
We love hearing from our listeners and viewers, and if you're wanting to watch our shows live on Amazon, feel free to follow Dealcasters Live as well at Dealcasters Live. Follow us on Twitter or subscribe to our YouTube channel, where we also included added content that you cannot find anywhere else.

Jim Fuhs [00:57:34]:
If you have questions about this episode or have something you want us to review, you can also email us at dealcasters at dealcasters live. Thanks again for listening. And you know the deal. Don't fear the gear.