#173: Monty Panesar - The Spin Doctor

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Daniel Kiernan  00:09

Welcome to Episode 173 of Control the Controllables. And what an exciting US Open, we are having as as predicted, if you listen to our panel, it was said that this is going to be one of the most open, Grand Slams for years on the men's side and on the women's side and there's going to be full of storylines and what bigger storyline, then Serena Williams, playing her last ever match as a professional tennis player or not. She's eluded in the last couple of days that she might play in Australia. She hasn't given us the full answer. If you watched her she had an amazing run in it and it quite incredible match that she lost to the Australian Tomjanovic In the third round, just top quality level tennis amazing atmosphere and Arthur Ashe stadium. And she she cried. She spoke about a family she spoke beautifully about her sister, you know, there would be no Serena without Venus. And I think we all had a tear in our eye as we listen to that. But who knows. She's a great champion. She certainly showed us a level that she hasn't done for a few years. And I really do hope that we do get this year again. But if not, congratulations Serena Williams on a quite incredible career and Rafael Nadal who lost his first Grand Slam match of 2022 Maybe we should have seen it coming you know he's had a difficult run up. He's had injuries. He hasn't had the best results and he's had some personal problems back at home is his wife and I hope she's doing okay, I know they're expecting their first child and things haven't been going quite so well. And it just goes to show how it is all linked. You know we can't separate tennis from life. All we can't separate life from tennis and sport and passion and we see it time and time again. So we really hope and send our best wishes to Rafa and his family for the safe delivery of I believe it's a boy and I would imagine he won't have a bad forehand as well in a few years time. But today's guest today's guest it's we're spreading our wings a little bit and I have to thank and shout out Kieron Vorster who big friend of of the podcast and who you guys have listened to in many episodes over over the last couple of years. And Kieran new is currently the fitness coach of Liam Broady has worked at the top level of many sports. And one of one of the athletes he's worked with over the years is the cricketer Monty Panesar who you will be listening to today who's had an incredible career and England England cricketer got got some as we'll talk about throughout the conversation, some incredible records, incredible wicket taking against some of the very best players in the world. And he's someone who absolutely loves his tennis. He loves the sport. He's a real character. You know, he has his own podcast. He's got big dreams as he moves into the media world. And for us to have that chat and, and for me, it's it's all links back in to tennis, it links back into sports. And it links back into life. And some of the stories it comes from a different lens in a different sport. But it's all the same thing. You know, ultimately, the lessons that we're learning, and I know that you guys will take a lot from this episode. So sit back and listen to Monty Panesar. So Monty Panesar big welcome to control the controllables How you doing?

Monty Panesar  03:58

Really good. Thank you. I'm absolutely honored to be here. And I want to give a good shout out to my fitness trainer Kieran. He was brilliant at giving me you know, really personalized programs, and I still do them to this date because I don't know what it is like tennis fitness programs. I don't know. They've designed in a way where you actually you feel like you get more out of your, your body and you put you under pressure or I don't know what it is the intensity of the running and everything. It was just like are they tailored differently to other sports?

Daniel Kiernan  04:39

I think and again, just for the listeners that's Kieran Vorster, who Kiran has been on the show and Kieran also joins us we do a preview and review of all the grand slams and Kieran always on the panel and does an amazing job doesn't hold back on his opinions and that's what we love caring for as well. But I think yeah, they are I mean I guess I've actually He just had a, I've just had to sit down there. Mike, you had an S. s&c coach at the at the Academy here in Spain. He actually comes from Cricket. So he's been with Calum organ for the last 10 years. So he's moving across from Cricket to tennis. So we've had some interesting conversations this morning. And obviously, in the junior development years, you're ultimately trying to build a general athlete who's going to be robust and, and then you start getting into the, into the more specific nature. And I think that the thing about tennis is, you have to be so fit in so many variable ways. You know, you have to be agile, you have to have endurance, you have to be quick, you have to be flexible. You have to be strong and powerful, but to get the right directional changes in orbit, and it's been it's quite hard. And the top coaches like Kieron, it's quite a niche. Because the tennis you don't know how long a tennis match is going to be. You know, you don't know what your outputs gonna be. You don't know what the weather's going to be like. You don't know what time you're going to play. You know, there's there's many court surfaces are changing all the time. There's, there's a lot of variables that go into it. So I would imagine somebody like Kieran, who is got that input and got that experience. He his transferability of that will absolutely go across sport. So it's good to hear that.

Monty Panesar  06:24

Yeah, absolutely. And especially not myself, you know, where I think being athletic or athletic, you know, being athletic for your body. That's something I don't think I train smart enough. When I when I was at the England team, I was strong, but I wasn't athletic for my body. So like doing burpees you know, pull ups with your bodyweight. So like bodyweight exercises, and I think tennis is very much focused on like your bodyweight exercises running, you know, as hard as you can for like the sessions that I did with Kieran like, I'll do one minute on the treadmill, and then 30 second rest, but if it was, like 15 kilometers for a minute, like, it would motivate you and challenge you to say, right, can I get you to maybe 17. And you gradually keep working hard. So we like right out of the 10 sets, maybe I'll do five at 15 I'll do three at 16 and maybe I'll try and push myself to at 17. And boy, the workout is unbelievable. It really like if the same as cricket, I just have to run really fast. It's that initial burst got to be quick in and out in and out more speed endurance and I just think there's so much transfer of transferable fitness skills have speed endurance into cricket and tennis and I wish when I played for England, you know someone like Kieron came into my life and just said that one teammate, I'm going to get you athletic but we just got to change your training, we've got to do more bodyweight stuff we're going to do more hip training, more speed endurance so that I missed that when I picked wrangler and I think I would have been a much better fitter and much more athletic

Daniel Kiernan  08:08

Well you certainly you certainly had a great career Monty and and I think you know with with this podcast one of the starting points, I think is always as fascinating as someone who's gone on and played to such a high international level represented your country. I always think the story of how you got into your sport and how maybe you made your breaks did you get lucky you know on reflection could you have had a break earlier you know all those bits tell us tell us how you how you got into cricket and how you then got the breakthrough to becoming a professional cricket player.

Monty Panesar  08:42

Yeah, like for me. I had a I had a really good club called Luton Town and Indians which you know, they used to be first class cricket there. And at the time, Luton, Luton Town Cricket Club needed members you know, it was like beginning to fold and Luton Indians was that original name, which we were used to play at Lancaster Avenue, which was a more of a council pitch. But what as we used to drive up the road there'll be David Clete would live in a bungalow who was a Luton Town Football Manager at the time. So we will all drive partners to enable that guy that's David Clete's house, you know, like big bungalow used to live in. And then we used to go and play cricket there. So there was that kind of affiliation at a young age, you know, with sport, and Gordon Greenwich. He came to Luton Town, and we used to have this Mini World Cup, India, Pakistan, England, West Indies, and Gornergrat. He said to me when you play off when you play a for defense, as you play it, you need to turn the back foot. Turn the toes and it was just like how do I say it? Young age? You know when you're when you're a young age and you're and you're rubbing not shoulders, but you meeting big sports stars. It kind of is that environments. Start set in place, you know, your thoughts, your visualization, you got good facilities, playing cricket all the time. And then I went for a trial for Bedfordshire under twelves wanted to be like Waze Makram got into trials. So you start believing in the system, you start thinking, Yeah, I can actually be a professional cricketer until I got the age of 15. Well, Paul Taylor was the coach and Tony Penberthy for Bedfordshire under fifteens. When they played professionals at an offense, and Paul Taylor said to me, Look, Monty, I think you should try left arm spin, you just don't really have it as a SEMA. So I tried it. He goes, You got long fingers. So and obviously quite, you know, broad shoulder. Then he goes, You got good shoulders and that's what you need for spin. First of all, I landed it just turned and bounce and, and the whole net session. He goes, this is so good. Next game, travel spin. So my parents took me in a Vauxhall Carlton at the time. That's what we had. And I spoke to my coach who do Nike was saluted, you know, the youth coach, he goes, try spin balling, because that's what he knows better. So we played against Western Chanda fifteens, at Royal Grammar School. And I took seven for 35. Wow, in that match. And immediately, I went back to him and he goes, just stick to it now. And that was it. So people talk about you know, who's your Messiah? Or who's your you know, this invisible force? Or do you believe in a God or whatever? I'll say my Messiah of cricket is Paul Taylor. Because if he never gave me that piece of information to say become a left arm spinner, I don't think I would ever become a professional cricketer. Yeah, so sometimes you need in life you need that one person to set you off in the right direction and forever. I'm always saying thank you Paul Taylor for making me a left arm spinner.

Daniel Kiernan  11:48

Brilliant story, because that when you were saying was a macro, um, I was saying, you know, I love my cricket. And I've I've watched you for many years and watched watch cricket for for many, many years. And I was thinking about you. You know. So, the next question I was gonna say, How did you get into spin? So was it just a natural thing? It's something that maybe something in the genes and or your your your English you were born in England, but coming from an Indian background? Well, I know when I've been in India, they just play cricket. It's everywhere. And, and even the tennis players when you're in the hotel, at the tournaments, the Indian tennis players, they're spinning the ball there in the corridors in the plane with the back of the tennis racket, and playing cricket in the corridors. Is it genetic? Did you have cricket in the genes? Where did this spin magic come from?

Monty Panesar  12:42

Well, you know, I think that's a great question because you know, for me, I found that when I was when my dad he was an all rounder and used to play for Luton at the time and he would take me you know, scoring with him and I was a score for the team as a 11 year old and and I remember him you know, getting 36 in one game and taking a few wickets so that's how I got into cricket and so you know, my dad was obviously you know, enjoying cricket but then it was really then when I'm when I got older that I started to play you know, a bit more loose. I was kind of a chubby little kid and my dad goes look I think you should play cricket just for your fitness you know, just to get slim you don't want to be too fat. And then that's I didn't I didn't enjoy training. I didn't enjoy cricket training, didn't enjoy doing the two laps. It was like I don't really want to you know, play cricket. But it just gradually the passion of Luton Indians or coaches who wanted one cricketer you know from the club to play for England, their passion and drive just instilled and gradually, I fell in love with the with the game and and then that turning moment was with Paul Taylor when I became a spinner. And then I immediately played you know, Bedfordshire minor counties at the age of 16. I think 1718 got picked up by England under 19. And then, North hands, I was already in contracted at the age of 17. So things happen very quickly when I became a spinner. And it was yeah, you know, I guess when in life when things become that easy, then you know, this is the Right, right right path for me.

Daniel Kiernan  14:25

And it's quite interesting what you're saying there because I think quite often the sports person's journey is they love it. They've got passion, it's, it's something they do for fun. And then as they get better and better and better. It's some point maybe becomes a bit too serious and and becomes a job and you kind of you lose sight of that little boy, a little girl that started out playing the sport, but it's interesting. You say, you weren't so keen, but gradually the sport grabbed you. Was there a point where you lost that love and passion of the sport during your career?

Monty Panesar  15:03

Yeah, that's a great question. I think during my time at Essex, Paul Grayson kind of like he goes, he goes, what I've seen you, when you when you play for England, the left arm spinner himself. So sometimes, you know, he's talking to left arm spinners or somebody bowls spin just about cricket emotionally how you feel you kind of feel like, they may understand, you know, where you're coming from. And he goes, Look, you just stop playing with the same smile on your face. You don't have that same energy. Like, I feel like you're falling out on love, you know, we cricket you know, you don't, you know not, you're not loving cricket, like you're used to. He was wanting to maybe, you know, go and go to the PCA, they'll try and maybe, you know, go sit with a sports psychologist and just have a chat with them. Because sometimes it happens in all of our lives. You know, we play so much we've achieved what we wanted. You know, when you're young, it's the unknown of like, Oh, what am I playing for England? What is it like playing at the highest level? What is it like playing against the best players in the world for your country, because once you tick those boxes, you kind of like, think what is else left to do, and sometimes you just don't have that motivation and drive. And it goes, sometimes it's good to speak, you know, to attract to a sports psychologist. So I had that chat, went away for a week, and then came back and enjoyed it. But I had my little struggles, in and out in and out. And eventually, like, you know, I think the psychologist kind of said, Look, maybe take a bit of medication. And I remember taking my first antidepressant pill, it was like, wow, why does my mind feel so quiet? I even said to my family and friends, they go, they're getting really quiet. Monty, I said, Yeah, I've been taking my medication, that's fine. Okay. And but they go, you're really quiet and calm, but you don't have your personality, you don't have your natural personality coming out. And, and I realized that I felt like it numbs the problem. So then I kind of like, you know, use a holistic approach. And I just went right, I went to my local GP, he goes, Look, I don't want you to go on the medication. I'm gonna give you a couple of books, how to increase the serotonin. And also diet, which really helped. And then just then when I went to Australia, after the, during the ashes when I was on, you know, a bit of a medication at the time, and I no one knew, but the doctor knew. And I've kind of put a bit of weight and stuff on as well. And they're like a physio at my grade club said, Look, just make a list of things that make you happy. And whenever you feel a little bit, whatever, not great, just go and do it. watch a funny movie. Call your friend. Go for a run, do you exercise? Listen to your favorite music, do a bit of reading. He does these are like mechanisms that take you away from medication. I started to do that felt better. It was really good. And then I think what am I like my my friends and you know, what we're saying? Family? Like, why don't you like, you know, start. I remember when he was a youngster. He used to go to the, you know, the Sikh temple every Sunday mornings. You know, traditionally, my parents wanted me to grow up as a Sikh. I don't know anything about obviously the religion in depth. You know, that's why, you know, I don't tend to talk too much of it, because I'm not that religious myself. But they go, why don't you you know, just start going there and

Daniel Kiernan  18:24

who you are, doesn't it?

Monty Panesar  18:29

Yeah. Reminds you at a young age, you know, gives you an identity. It's like, if someone asked me who are you? I'll say yeah, I'm a Sikh. I'll go to the temple. And I remember just sitting there listening to like, like, you know, the Keaton which is like, you know, the music that goes on and then the storytelling, that detail there. And it just gave me another sense of peace I was very relaxed, very centered. And, and I thought to myself, yeah, this is another one, put it on to do list, you know, so and then the funny thing is, that is when I spoke to one of my other sort of professors like in, you know, health and well being, he said that in cricket when people have these kind of issues, because loneliness is the breeding ground for mental health issues. But then when I go to let's say, a Sikh temple or go to the local Cricket Club, or any place of congregation it you know, you can talk about your life problem, have problems shared and you can see what the effect of you know, me going Sunday morning was was important because I'll also mixing it with friends. Having a chit chat is a form of congregation. So I would always say to people, you know, try and you know, get in touch and have that congregation wherever you can, because I think that really helps your mind and humans, you know, that's what we are, we are, we are effectively, you know, meeting we need to be meeting and hanging with other human beings. You know, you don't want to, you know, leave yourself in isolation, because that can lead to You know, things which you know, what may not help you in the long run.

Daniel Kiernan  20:04

But I think there's, it's a topic that we've, we've we've had on the podcast, we've had mental health awareness weeks, it's a topic being a tennis player many years ago on tennis coach, it's always right there, you know, and I think the stigma has been taken away in the last few years, which is great, I think people are talking a lot more openly. But the reality is, in professional athletes, or high level athletes, 35%, I believe is the figure of people that, that have strong mental health struggles. You know, I'm a believer that we all have a degree of mental health struggle as human beings, just in life, that's just like physical health, we're gonna have, you know, we all pick up colds, we all pick up, there's a certain range, but at the same time, we're all going to have a certain degree. Now, when I think about tennis, unless you're from Australia, you tend to travel away from home maximum, three, four weeks at a time. But that's more challenging than sports like football, that you might go away for a night, but you spending a lot of time on the road. But when you look at cricket, and there's been obviously a lot of high profile mental health struggles in cricket, I think the average that I heard and you'll be able to tell me better than this month is 250 to 270 days a year in a hotel, away away from home, traveling, you know, these big, long, long tours that you do. So that's one bit. The second bit is I know, you also had big struggles with your shoulder, and an injury. And if you think of those two times, sitting in a hotel room, and having injuries, they're probably the two most lonely places and times that you can possibly have. And that comes in abundance in cricket. You know, would you say that, that was contributors to yourself and, and to others that have seemed to have have? And I guess my question on that now that you've had time to reflect, what is the solution to that?

Monty Panesar  22:01

Well, look, I That's a great question. Because I remember at the time, you know, people, you gotta, you gotta have some good mates in the dressing room that you can, you know, talk about things other than cricket. And I felt probably at the time when I loved cricket, you know, yeah, I had mates around me, but I didn't have like, like a best friend, or someone that I can just sort of just talk about things are going through my mind emotionally. Because you're such a competitive environment. And you're always scared of like, oh, well, if I told the coach, and next game, I'm not going to get across to play, you know, I'm not going to get that chance. And then I'm going to get dropped from the tour, I won't get on my England crews over, let's just go in the gym, let's just, you know, keep it all to myself, and, you know, not tell anyone, and then I'll keep playing. And that that is the conversation that is that stigma where you're like, you need that mate, you know, and it's a lot more open now, like people do understand that, oh, if the guy's not in great form, or the or there's a sense of injury, you know, if the coach will probably be a bit more sympathetic and think, look, it's okay, get through it. Don't worry about your place them sort of conversations coming from coaches, I might go on.

Daniel Kiernan  23:11

And they go such a long way. Monty, I remember, under sixteens, I was at the under 16 European Championship. And and I remember speaking to the coach and saying, Look, I'm struggling right now, you know, if you don't feel I'm playing very well. I had a very open conversation. We then traveled off to Lithuania or Portugal, Poland, the next day. And we played the team championships, and I didn't get selected. And at the end of the trip, I said, you know, what would it be? You know what's going on? He said, Well, I didn't feel I could play you because you told me you were really struggling with how you were playing. So so the that and that's okay, that's juniors but it's kind of already like professional. And I think back in those days, me and you were very similar age, when you were playing to that level. The reality is, it wasn't the dumb thing to open up. Because exactly what you're saying you're, you're concerned or, or if you tell someone in the team, they go and tell the coach because they want to get their place. You know, whereas I think showin that vulnerability now is, I hope is actually seen as a bit more of a positive, you know, if a player is able to show their vulnerable side, then they're in a much better place to be able to work through it and possibly be the right person to get selected. You know, so it is definitely big crossover between those things. And it's as I to move on to a positive thing and I can't have an international cricketer on without asking how, how was that moment when you were selected for the first time to play for England? You know, how we how we are told how how did you feel? You know, how did you share that with your friends and family?

Monty Panesar  23:18

Yeah, like I was extremely excited. I remember they needed To spinners to go to India and it's between Ian Blackwell, Gareth, Patty and myself. And they picked me and Ian Blackwell. And off we went. And, you know, I told my family and they were like, you know, make sure you name it the motion of the opportunity go out and train hard and do all the right things. But I never kind of expected that, oh, I'll be playing the first test match, but they need an attacking spinner, someone who can spin the ball and Freddie, you know, he kind of like felt like, yeah, Monty seems like the right option for me. You know, you can spin it hard. And you can do well. So he picked me and I remember during the meeting, he said, he gets my art my, my name was last name. And Andrew Flintoff. He pat me and he goes up. I said, like, is that? Are you sure? Am I playing too hard? Is it tough My name because you're playing tomorrow. I couldn't believe it. So I went in my room, write down all the source field settings and did all of that kind of stuff, went to Freddie and showed it to him. It was he was really surprised. And he was like, you know, looking at everything. And he was playing FIFA with you know, Steve Harmison and Jimmy and Hogan and all of these guys. Because, like that, kind of like that moment was a real interesting moment. It was like, wow, this is how the greats switch off. Right? It's like, you know, it's like, it's like holding a fist. If you keep if you keep staying tight on that fist, you're gonna get tired. But you got to know like, when you enter the ground, you're on it, you're you. That's it intensity now. But when you come off the page, immediately let go of it. And I think that's what's like, alright, this is what I need to bring into my cricket because I thought maybe I was a bit too obsessive about cricket, cricket, cricket, and switching on and off, and gradually learned that by watching the other greats, who are playing for in in England, so in my opinion, you know that I am so grateful that and you kind of gave me that opportunity without his backing and his support. I'm wondering probably that got that first chess wiki, which was aalim da no Marlon car. Sachin Tendulkar. And, you know, just watching his documentary A Billion of Dreams. It was unbelievable, just to see, like, you know, he was single handedly giving hope to people of, you know, 1 billion people and put India in the Global Map and as an international superstar where, you know, he did so much for the country. And here I'm playing against someone like him, you know, he's absolutely massive. And then I got him out, and I couldn't believe it. And it was just a moment of celebration to where I was on that field celebrating running towards point. And it was just an unbelievable feeling. I couldn't believe like, you know, my first test week it was, you know, the great man Sachin Tendulkar.

Daniel Kiernan  27:49

And that must have given you, I guess, if if you get the best batsman out in the world, that was seep into your belief system that you can do anything?

Monty Panesar  28:00

Absolutely, it kind of gave me the biggest belief that any batsman out in the world, like I didn't have any fear or any batsman and the intensity, you know, like playing in India kind of elevated my game to the next level. So, I've always been, you know, grateful of India really going to India playing cricket there, the reception you get the fans and everything, you know, without the fans to be honest, you're not you're nothing really and I remember, like speaking to the likes of Gary Lineker, he said to me, you know, as long as the fans like recognizing you, you're irrelevant the day, the fans don't recognize you, that will be it and always, you know, speak to them, embrace them, give your time to them, because they will love it. So, I always, you know, gave my time to the fans and yeah, like, well, that the fans, you know, you know, complain an empty stadium, and it's not the same, but when it's packed, they, they, it's their energy that's on time get you the wickets. And that gives you the surreal moments that you play for your country.

Daniel Kiernan  28:57

And in India, it is just a different level, isn't it in terms of, and how, how were the Indian fans with yourself? You know, I guess looking for them looking so well, this potentially is one of our own and playing for England and you know, was the, was that a difficult relationship? Or do you think they, they took you under their wing as well?

Monty Panesar  29:16

Yeah, like the plans kind of felt like it was it was a celebration really celebration of both countries UK in India, you know, first generation families going to India to get a better better, you know, better quality of life. And, and after that there was his product and played being the first seat to pay for, for for, for India, and also people I think the Sikh community absolutely loved the fact that I'm sure connected to like the religion and you know, the tradition, which makes him feel even more proud but also the Indians and England they feel very proud of that. That relationship that they both have that they're, you know, it was that kind of celebration really seeing a seat guy from England playing against India. And then the fans loved it. You know, they they absolutely believe the reception is unbelievable when I when I get to India,

Daniel Kiernan  30:07

just don't get their guard out.

Monty Panesar  30:10

Well, that's the problem is like when I went back when when I went on first time in 27 years in 2012. It was Alastair Cook's first appointment as captain. And I soon realized why 20% of the population hate me.

Daniel Kiernan  30:27

Absolutely. And who on that, who was your toughest opponent? And why?

Monty Panesar  30:34

Probably Graham Smith in England? Never get him out. Yeah, there was a moment where at Edgbaston, he loved it. But you know, when you're playing against a competitor, like some, when they're in a good form, they'll dominate you when you know, in the past two forms, you know, you fake it till you make it, his body language will be so positive, so dominant. But inside, he probably knows he's not in that world. But he would, he would he would have that about him. And that was strong mental toughness, because I remember he loved it. And also, it's probably not our either. And he's like, he's like, got this strong, big, you know, South African figure, and he's down the wicked. I think, you know, I don't think he's hit that because his body language is telling me as it, but he's faking it to me. And I didn't really appeal for it. I didn't really go hard at the appeal. And I wish I had done because he would have been given out, you probably would have won that test, Matt. And I don't think Michael Warren after that would have announced his regular resignation as test captain. So we're in a putting putting on all all of them things together. That moment was so significant. But again, that's what the great competitors do. key moments, they seem to just somehow find a way of getting it in their favor. And Graham Smith, yeah, he was one of them once, he wouldn't, wasn't his tap, it was a talented cricketer, but more so his presence and how he would keep himself positive and have that strong and, you know, tough competitor like South Africa, asthma they like, because they're very competitive. Very tough boys. Hacker nine.

Daniel Kiernan  32:10

And what what about, what about the cricket? Have you learned the most from?

Monty Panesar  32:15

Oh, very good question. I think from Australia, probably, you know, learning about how to gain respect how to be competitive, how to play attack in India as well, you know, how to manage on and off, you know, and I think that's, it's a different type of thing where you're constantly like, when you're off the field, you feel like you're constantly working if you're not like, you know, could be gone to the restaurant, it could be there, there's always fans meeting you, you're always greeted by fans, great hospitality. And you got to always, you know, like, be accommodating because they absolutely love and adore you. So that was obviously a surreal moment for me. And and just a competitive in Australia, you know, that you learn a lot from you know, when you play a tours away from England, because England is your comfort is you're used to the pictures the ball in your hand, when you do really well, you go on the form of the county season. But when you go to other nations, in particular, Australia and India, the ball is different the soil is different. Conditions are so different, you got to quickly adapt and find a way of how to be attacking in those unfamiliar conditions.

Daniel Kiernan  33:38

And when we I love talking to ex professional athletes, because I think sometimes when we're in the middle of, of our careers, it's hard to reflect. And it's hard to quite know. So this this next this next question I'd love to ask is now that you've done your playing career, is there anything that you wished you'd done different? You know, is there anything that I don't relate the word regret, but is there anything that you got? You know what, looking back, I wished I'd known that I wished I'd done that different.

Monty Panesar  34:12

Yeah, I wish I had a PT. Honestly, I wish I had a personal trainer. I wish maybe someone like Kieron came into my life. Like I said earlier in the podcast, and he just took me away a lot Monty right. I've worked with high level athletes, right? I know how to get your athletic on that's, that's my challenge. That's my mission. And I'm going to get you there. After when I kind of stopped playing. You know, I did a few fitness sessions. I did, you know, worked with him. And it was so much like I felt I felt so much more athletic. And I just wish I had that when I played for England.

Daniel Kiernan  34:47

And before we move into life after cricket playing, what's the thing that you're the most proud of in your cricket career?

Monty Panesar  34:55

I think I've got to say winning in Australia. Winning the Ashes in Australia was big, and we remember sitting in Sydney and as a team collectively going through the special moments and there were so many moments during that trip Chris Tremlett, you know, taking a five on the first out of Melbourne was unbelievable. Jonathan trucks run out. Kevin Peterson with his off spin up there last session. Adelaide what Michael Clark out, obviously, you know, he's known for his batting but you know, he spins the ball and Greg Matthews and both of us we have good friends you always talk about getting your finger fish up. And I remember he's getting his hip through and he got that moment it felt like you know, just watching him as 12 Miles I'm so happy for him. And also in India, you know, when we won the first time in 27 years you know, Kevin Pearson's innings 180 was unbelievable. Being You know, with Alastair Cook as Captain you know, that was a special moment, because since then no team has been over 10 years. No team has won in India. And I think it's going to be very difficult because you need batsman, you can score quickly, but then you knew spinners who outdo the Indian spinners, you know, in terms of pace, and that and I just think I'll probably be a very long time now, since since that, that sort of, you know, enough foreign team wins a test series in India.

Daniel Kiernan  36:22

It's so subtle, what you've just done there, Monty, but I have to bring the attention if the listeners didn't pick it up. I think they will. I asked you the question, What makes you most proud and you were very humbly just talked about the team. You know, you've just talked about the, you know, the team results, you know, you even mentioned, you know, winning in Australia and Kevin Peterson getting his wicked and you're the 12th man, you know, and I think it says so much about you, because how many, how many athletes that will just think about themselves, even when it's a team sport. Cristiano Ronaldo right now is trying to get to try to get away from Man United, so you can get the Champions League goalscoring record. You know, it wasn't even about winning the Champions League. So I think that says so much about you and thank you for sharing that humility. Take me to that moment. You've the teams, the teams run the ashes in Australia. bunch of drunk Aussies have been abusing you all Australian summer. And you're in the dressing room? How? How's the camaraderie? How, how's that? How is that moment tell our listeners about that.

Monty Panesar  37:32

Oh, it's brilliant. Because before then we went to Germany, right. And we had this boot camp, which was, you know, it was so difficult, like getting up, you know, 2am, and having a, like, a siren in the middle of a jungle got tense up. And they made it like very much real life, like we're getting ambushed. And we got to quickly get out. And, you know, it was that sort of Army military training, which was collectively built to bring us together as a team. And we didn't realize the impact of that until we got to Australia, like, as a hot day, we can't get a wicket, or, you know, tough conditions, and we've got to battle it out. And it was them moments that we won, because we have that collective team bonding session that you kind of feel like, it's a group of 15 players as a squad that is taking on, like 26 million people, you know, the whole nation of Australia. And we kind of went there and we beat them and and that said a lot about you know, that the methods and, and and about the coaching the leadership at that time when Andrew Strauss was Captain Andy Flower was a coach. So it's been a lot about the group of people in that leadership position, how they were made, they managed to put the pieces together for us to win in Australia.

Daniel Kiernan  38:51

And what's that night out? Like with KP and Freddie and all of the boys it always looks like it's a night out that I'd love to have

Monty Panesar  38:59

Yes, a great night out. But at that time, we had security around us and I remember they said guys, I advise you not to go out but if you want anything is celebrating the dressing room, and then go back to the hotel, you can go downstairs in the bar and celebrate I just wondered why you to go out because you know, they're going to be loads of people with cameras and stuff like that. But they are such special moments because it's that feeling is a such a relief of like, wow, we talk about you know, the great, you know, that was a great building stub water, great delivery, that was all you know, how good you was there or how funny that moment was, and it gives us a chance to just review the whole test series together but have fun and enjoy ourselves. It's, it's brilliant, honestly. And it just it just shows that you know when we that's why I say Test cricket is the best form of the game. Because after your career, if you haven't won, let's say a T20 World Cup or a 50 over World Cup. People tend to always remember even now when they remember you as a test cricketer to remember your bowling or your batting or great moments because I think they understand that Test cricket is collectively you need at least seven to eight players to win you that game where T 20 1 days it could take one plane take the game away in a space of half an hour, but that is over five days. It's such a different set of skills, which helps me now in my life, you know, all of them skills as I'm trying to become obviously, you know, graduated in media journalism, international journalism from St. Mary's University. So the goal is to, you know, to to, you know, to be a Sky Sports presenter, have my own show at Talk Sport or radio show and then have a primetime show, competing against maybe Graham Norton or Jonathan Ross called Monty Meets on a Saturday night. You know, nine 9pm where my first guests probably be, you know, I don't know who would you like your first guest to be like, Lady Gaga. Maybe.

Daniel Kiernan  40:58

Freddie Flintoff?

Monty Panesar  41:00

Yeah, Freddie Flintoff will be my first guest. And I'll have Kevin Pieterson. And then my third guest. I'll have Piers Morgan, and then Gary Lineker. And then we've got to have a president in there. So I dropped Boris Johnson. To jack up the viewing figures. That's the dream and that's where I'm running towards.

Daniel Kiernan  41:21

And that's amazing. Because when you when you talk there about the dressing room after the game and those big moments and you know, your face lights up, and and it is it's a challenge. I was a professional tennis player, not to the level that you've played, play cricket Monty. But it's a challenge. When you when you leave the sport, you you no longer have structure in your life, you no longer have that feeling of being someone the buzz, I actually turned to gambling for a couple of years, you know, and it's something that luckily, I got a hold of, but it was some I think we all tend to look for something. So how, how's that challenge been for you? As you as you moved out of cricket playing? Were you able to give you you've got a clear goal and purpose now. Was that clear from day one? Or? Or did you struggle with that? That initial period at first?

Monty Panesar  42:13

Yeah, look, initially, I was lucky to have a autobiography coming out during the World Cup and England won that World Cup that year, so that I'm always gonna remember that the Full Monty was out and England won the World Cup. Yeah, not ma'am. Taking any sort of, you know, credit, right, but it's same sort of moments where you can like, think to yourself, right, you know, I've did a lot of media work there, England won the Ashes during that year as well. Would I can I can I, you know, maybe get a presenting role or broadcasting role, but obviously found it challenging because there's so much competition out there. So then I, you know, did a degree to so people, the industry can take me seriously. So I've done a bit of an internship with CNN as well, it just sort of, you know, I'm obviously going away to India to play cricket, but it's given me a bit of a feel and, and, you know, and then it gives a feel of the industry to see, you know, what I'm like, as a broadcaster, presenter. And so, that's the goal. Now, you know, I've got a bit of direction now, and hopefully, I'll just keep plugging away, got obviously got my own podcast called Monty meats. I'm sure you know, you'll listen. You listen to us on stage. So that's, that's what it is, you know, I had an opportunity to, you know, have my own quantum with with the telegraph as well, you know, do a bit of writing, and it helps, you know, I spoke to Atherton, he goes, you know, writing helps with a broadcasting and it helps me so, you know, there we go. We've got direction and we just absolutely clamming away.

Daniel Kiernan  43:40

Well, Monty, that we have a quick fire round that I'm going to jump into, to finish off, but I think that's a nice place for the conversation to finish, you know, and we've we've had a bit of a whistle stop tour of Monty Panesar's life. But I think I think there's some amazing messages in there, you know, some amazing learnings, how, you know, you have been down, you've brought yourself back up, you know, the importance of purpose, the importance of having people around you, you know, all of these things that are transferable skills into tennis into life, in general. And I think they're such great messages you've shared. So thank you. It's a big privilege for us to have you on Control the Controllables. But are you ready for our quickfire round? Yeah, let's go. So the third the start to the quick fire round, a little quiz for you. And who said this about you Monty Panesar, who called you Monty Python.

Monty Panesar  44:39

Henry Blofeld very good,

Daniel Kiernan  44:41

Who called you the best finger spinner in the world? Duncan Fletcher. Okay, I'm gonna lecture Duncan Fletcher, who said to you and helped you along the way. The equation of life is 95% mental and 5% Physical

Monty Panesar  45:00

Oh, my mentor.

Daniel Kiernan  45:03

Yes. Yeah. And uh, now a little quick fire round Test cricket or 2020. Test cricket. How many times did you get Sachin Tendulkar out?

Monty Panesar  45:17

Five times?

Daniel Kiernan  45:20

Four, okay, four times the same as the great late Shane Warne. Okay, but he played against them a lot more times than you did. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it's not about it's not a bad spot. And it's not we have to mention him. And I'd love to ask you again. I know it's quick fire round. But when you mentioned Shane Warne. I mean, he certainly got me watching cricket. You know, he got a lot of people watching cricket. Have you got a few words on Shane?

Monty Panesar  45:48

Shane was a brilliant guy. I'll be honest with you, like Greg Matthews is a good friend of mine shared this poem called I think is man in the glass. And basically, it basically says that when you get up in the morning, you look yourself in the mirror, you brush your teeth. You don't have your wife, your friends or your children around you or people that you know, that give you the applauded. Now, if you lie to that man in the mirror, then you lie to yourself and you're lying to the rest of the world. And I think that's what Shane Warne was he never lied to himself. He was honest, you guys, I love pizza. I love chips. I love a fag. I love a beer ball in my hand I look through the look for the eyes of the batsman tell him how I'm gonna get him out. And he owned that. So when you when you when you're strong when you when you're when you're honest with yourself and you own yourself. Everybody wants to be around that energy because it's a such a strong, you know, energy. And he just, you know, magnetizes people and that's what Shane Warne was, you know, you had friends from Hollywood to all around the world. And yeah, he was a big global icon, because he was true to that man in the mirror

Daniel Kiernan  46:57

And how good was he?

Monty Panesar  46:59

One of the best Yeah, he was up there as greatest ever greatest.

Daniel Kiernan  47:03

Yeah, met amazing. Batting or balling.

Monty Panesar  47:08

Bowling.

Daniel Kiernan  47:09

I didn't think you'd say that. 2020 Cricket, or the 100? I know they're very similar. But 20 to 20. Yeah, cuz the 100. Yeah, the 100 said another brand, isn't it? And it's certainly Yeah, it seems to have also captured the imagination. And I'm big on equality in sport. And it seems like you know, women's cricket is getting pushed with the with 100 as well, which is, which is fantastic. A Googly or a bouncer.

Monty Panesar  47:39

I'll probably say a googly?

Daniel Kiernan  47:45

Do you watch tennis?

Monty Panesar  47:47

Yes, big tennis fan.

Daniel Kiernan  47:49

Five sets or three sets.

Monty Panesar  47:52

Five sets.

Daniel Kiernan  47:53

Who's your favorite player?

Monty Panesar  47:56

Well, at the moment is Serena Williams, because it's going to be her last Grand Slam and she retires. So I'm watching the US Open very closely. And as you get the 24th Grand Slam will be a lovely story there. But obviously Djokovic, something about his tennis

Daniel Kiernan  48:15

He can't win this year's US Open. You've gone for Serena Williams on the women's side. We've all got a go for her. Let's all magnetize it would be an incredible story for her to finish like that. Who's going to win the men's US Open? 2022

Monty Panesar  48:29

Oh, that's a really good question. I think it's going to be Nadal now looks on fire

Daniel Kiernan  48:33

Yeah, that would that would be amazing. What does last two questions? What does control the controllables mean to you?

Monty Panesar  48:42

It means like when you get angry? How do you control that emotion instead of letting it go you know, I think you know if you can control that which is great. And also control the controllables if a coach gives you a game plan do you stick to that you have the discipline to contribute to that old you get bored after a while and then do something else. And I think you know, the great sports people like Alistair Cook was brilliant at that stick to a game plan, do it all throughout the whole day. And that's what it is, you know, so that's what you got to control the controllables you know, you look at the sunsets and sunrises the sun does the same thing over again. And if it changes that there'll be no sunlight so sometimes it nature give you a clue how great you can be if you can just control the controllables

Daniel Kiernan  49:26

and who should our next guest be on control the controllables

Monty Panesar  49:32

Boris Johnson

Daniel Kiernan  49:33

Monty the what you don't realize in the small print is whoever you say you are you're passing the baton. So I mean, I don't know if you if you've got the ability to get Boris on. But is there someone may be more realistic that you

Monty Panesar  49:48

Kevin Pieterson?

Daniel Kiernan  49:49

If you're I'm gonna get in touch if you're able to get that set up. That would be incredible. We would love to have KP on the on the show. Okay, yeah. Monty Been a star and absolute star. Wishing you the absolute best. I'm going to be listening to Monty Meets. I'm going to be watching your career fly your next career after after cricket.

Monty Panesar  50:11

Or maybe Andrew Flintoff.

Daniel Kiernan  50:14

If you could get Andrew Flintoff, that would also be amazing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna drop you a message and hold you to that. Okay, that's your, that's your controllable now, to get to get those boys on top, man, thank you for coming on and all the best. Thank you so much. Thanks, man. Thank you. Bye, bye. Bye bye. Well, firstly, I have to say, as much as I love talking to Monty, you haven't got the best predictions at the US Open. Because since that chat, a few days ago, this great Serena Williams bowed out. And also the great Rafael Nadal bowed out as well. So to two picks he's gone with stick to cricket, maybe Monty, but loved, loved the conversation and, and just so many takeaways from it, you know, I think, you know, big one for me. And we've talked a lot about this on the podcast, the importance of having a purpose, you know, we do we do hear that, but what does that mean? You know, really digging into that, and, you know, amante, finding his purpose, whether that's on the cricket field or off the cricket field, was so so important. And, and, and his purpose as well. And one of his big bits that he he spoke about and he kept coming back to it was, was that feeling of being a Flett ik you know that, you know, how he wished that he'd had somebody like Kieran to work with throughout his career. And I think it's such a good message, Mardy Fish spoke to us, you know, that is big controllable, that he absolutely nailed for me, when I asked that question, what does control the controllables mean to you, and Mardy Fish talked about, like, ultimately, you can control the shape you get in you can control how much work you put into that side. And, and as a professional athlete, that has to be a non negotiable, you have to feel good on the court, you have to be in that position where you've got the confidence that you can handle the rigors of whatever the sport that you are in. And that certainly came through loud and clear. But it also, you know, you think a cricketer, playing traveling the world playing for their country, that life is good. And we get this in the tennis world all the time. And as Europeans, we again, this is a topic we've touched on, you know, we don't have it as bad as, as the Australians who have to leave home often for four or five months at a time, you know, high profile players, Nick Kyrgios. And he went into the US Open and he said, I don't mind if I don't mind. If I lose, it's a win win. If I win, I continue. But it's the last tournament of my leg before I get to go back home. So if I lose, I win as well. And certainly, Ash Barty can relate to that. Ultimately, I think that's the reason that she stopped playing the game of tennis. And, and I guess for us, the viewer, the fan, it's sometimes hard for us to empathize with that, you know, that's what we want to do. That's what our kids want to do. That's what we've dreamt about doing playing on these big courts. But the reality is a lot harsher than that. And, you know, as as a cricketer spending 250 plus days in a hotel. Now, anyone that's got kids who have been doing your head in for the last 6, 8, 10 weeks of the summer holidays, you'd probably welcome a few nights in a hotel away from them. However, that reality is, you know, it's a lonely place to be. And you know, it brings with it a lot of mental health difficulties. You add in, you add in the challenges of of injuries, and it really can be a lonely place to be in. And I think it's important as the viewer who who watches the sport that we do remember that it's human beings that we're watching after all, and I can certainly take that into tennis, you know, it is it is a it is a sport that demands so much but no more than the demand of being away from home. And cricket, you're a team sport, it's difficult there, tennis, you're not and when you're playing at the lower levels of the game, you don't have any support team, you know, as you get to higher rankings and you can take girlfriends boyfriends, you know, family members, you see Serena Williams as dog running around at the practice gods, you can almost take home to the events, but when you're already struggling to pay for your own airfare, you're not taking anybody with you. And then you're not staying in very nice hotels. And that is a real challenge. And it's not for the faint hearted. You know, but those that do come through that manage to spend all of those years on the law tours in our support, I tip my hat to them. And and there's been so many success stories, and that sets you up for life, you know, the ability to do that and have the resilience. So it's great for Monty to share some of those little stories. So the little insights you didn't fully tell me about the night out with KP and Freddie Flintoff? My, my last thing. Who do we want? Do we want Boris Johnson? Here? Do we want Freddie Flintoff? Do we want care? P You know, we're now opening into the next world of sport. You know, as we as we do that, you know there's plenty of guests that we can start to open up I'm sure. Let me know who you'd like to hear. We'll get onto Monty and we'll get him to deliver. Please don't pick Boris Johnson. And back back to tennis. You know we go on into and actually as I am recording this on a late Tuesday night, you know we're in the quarterfinal stages, a big shout out to the Brits, the Brits who have been on you know we've got now after tonight two semi finalists in the men's doubles in Joe Salisbury. And also Rajeev RAM who's who's been a friend and guest on the podcast. And then Neal skupski and his partner Wesley cool off, they're also flew to the semifinals. And then my boy, I coached them from the age of 10 to 2324 years old, spent 1314 years. He's a bit of a miserable, sore and sore, but we love him to bits and very proud moment to see Lloyd glass Paul and his partner. Pull off an amazing win last night against curiosa and kokkinakis. And they in about a half an hour's time. I'll be staying up to watch him playing his quarterfinal match as well. So a big shout out to all of those guys and to Louie Kaya, the genius behind that. But the woman's singles it's hard to pick. It's you know, there's there's some of those names that we did talk about Pegula,  you know, I think there's some great matches to come up on Jabeur someone we always mentioned on the podcast, and all she beat my watch out picked on Lana virtue had an amazing run earlier this evening. And I'll certainly be watching as the as the week progresses, who's going to be coming out on top. And then on the men's side, we're going to have a new Grand Slam winner. And amazing for me and I was speaking actually earlier today to call my he's my performance director at Sato Tennis Academy. And he didn't actually believe me when I told him that Casper Ruud could be world number one after the US Open because Cole did a lot of work in Norway and did some work with Casper when he was younger. And I know that they're absolutely on wild in Norway is now through the berrettini earlier this evening, he's through to the semi finals. If he makes the final outcome as doesn't he is your new ATP world number one. If they both make the final, the winner becomes world number one. If Alcatraz makes the final and route doesn't, then Alcatraz becomes the world number one. And if neither of them make the final than rough out in the dollars by back to World Number one, it's exciting. It got it's gone against the big three the Big Four that we've had the last few years. But what an exciting place that men's tennis and women's tennis is in right now. At this point, I would love to see eager, eager to be on tech show that she can do it on a hard court as well as a clear court and get another grand slam under her belt. Enjoy the tennis. Enjoy the rest of the week wherever you are in the world. Thank you for listening as always, but until next time, I'm Dan Kiernan and we are Control the Controllables