Punk Drummer Turned MasterChef - Private Chef Derrick Fox on Epic Mega Cookies and Gordon Ramsay

On today's show, I have Chef Derek Fox. You're going to hear how this punk rock drummer went from being on the Warped Tour to the runner up of MasterChef season six and then return for All Stars season 12. You're going to hear the story of how he started his own private chef business and then launch a cookie business called Epic mega cookies. Hi, this is Chris spear. And I'm the host of Chefs Without Restaurants, the show where I speak with culinary entrepreneurs and people in the food and beverage industry working outside of a traditional restaurant setting. So yes, today I have Chef Derek Fox, and I was really interested by his story. He didn't come up through the traditional restaurant ranks like many of us did. He didn't go to culinary school, though he did have some restaurant experience. But Derek used to be a drummer in a punk rock band. He's toured all over the country and played the Warped Tour, which I think is really cool, because I love that kind of music. And like many people who work in the restaurant industry, he started in the front of the house, but then eventually decided that he wanted to get some back of the house experience and started cooking. The more he did it, the more he loved it. And he actually found himself cooking when he was out on tour with his band. After a number of years playing shows on the road, he decided he wants to try something different. So he submitted an application to the show master chef and guess what he was picked. So next thing you know he was cooking dishes for them. And they liked what they saw. So he was on the show. And Derek managed to impress Gordon Ramsay and was a runner up in season six. Then he was asked if he wanted to come back and do a season of all stars. And he said yes. And in between the time between when he did season six. And when he ended up doing all sorts, he decided he wanted to really build and grow his brand and his business, so that he would have something to promote when season 12 came out. And I don't want to give too much away. But I will say that Derek eventually started his own private chef business. He's launched a cookie line. And he started a podcast called a bunch of losers where he talks to other people who've been on reality TV shows who didn't win, which I think it's a pretty cool concept. And before we get to the show, I want to let you know about something I'm really excited about. I'm going to be doing collaborative pop up dinners. That was something I always planned with Chefs Without Restaurants. I did a couple of them back in 2019 and early 2020 before COVID started and you know, obviously that put a stop to kind of what I wanted to do there. And while we're still dealing with COVID, things have obviously loosened up a bit. And I'm comfortable starting to do these dinners again. The first one is going to be with Chef Matt Collins on Saturday, March 12. In New Jersey, we're still working out the final details, but I'd love to see some of you there. It's gonna be a fun, collaborative six course dinner plus probably a few extras. It'll be a blend of our cuisines and styles. And this is something I want to continue. So if you're interested, hit me up. I'd love to travel to wherever you are and do a pop up together. Maybe we can also do a Chefs Without Restaurants meet up. If that's something you're into, let me know. Send me an email at chefs without restaurants@gmail.com. Now let's get down to business. Here's the show. Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Hey, Derek, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for coming on.

A great concept Chefs Without Restaurants. There's an army of us, man. I mean, and, you know, a lot of I think a lot of like, restaurant chefs, they project that we're like a lower class chef, sometimes. And at least I've experienced that. And I just, I think it's that ego that they hold on to because like being a chef without a restaurant, it's sometimes a lot harder. A lot harder.

You rarely have a support system, right? Like, yeah, most of us are solo operators, which means you're doing the admin stuff, the menu planning stuff, you might be doing the accounting stuff, your social media stuff, shopping, cooking, store, the prepping. Yeah, 100% 100%. But I think people are getting it more and I still see it kind of as like an age thing like the kinda younger, Brasher chef, you know, like hashtag chef life, like the chef bro culture where those guys are like restaurant rider die, and then they hit like maybe like 30 or so. And like this, maybe I don't want to be doing this for the rest of my life.

Yeah, and you know, what's funny is like, like, sometimes I'll have parties for my client where I get to hire a team. And when I have that team in there, like this weekend, I did a party. We had like 50 people at the house in Malibu. I mean, we did it in my car goes all out. We did this giant seafood tower. I mean, it was literally like 100 pounds of seafood and 1000s of dollars of caviar meal was in say, we flew in dueling pianos from Vegas. I mean, like, it was insane. And I got to I got to call my guys like that I use for parties. He's, and I've been getting to use them a couple times in a row the last couple weeks. And, you know, we were in there, and we were grooving. And we were pumping everything out. And it made me like miss being in a restaurant. It gave me that like nostalgia like, man, we're there. All right, or die right now. Like, this is such a good feeling when you're accomplishing something as a team. And, and yeah, so restaurants, they get that all the time. And you realize like how solo you really are when you're a private chef, when you get those moments to work with other people. So that was interesting, but I loved it.

Yeah, I love working with people. That's one of the reasons I want to start Chefs Without Restaurants is, you know, even if I couldn't find people to work with me on the day to day, maybe we could do events and stuff together. But now as I do bigger events, I'm hiring people to help with me. And this guy, Mike, he used to be like my chef de cuisine, like before I started my business, and he helps me out a lot. And it's that thing, like, Mike and I cook together for five years, right? Like, he knows when I move for something like how he needs to move or like, can almost see in my eyes when I like need something and knows that like, oh, he needs the olive oil, right. And like that feeling is really good. Because I don't work with people that often and to have someone working with me who like, totally just knows what I need when I need it. And how I want something done is really awesome. And and that's where I miss about working, you know, in a place with other people. So before we start talking about cooking, I want to talk about your background because I think it's a little interesting. You were a drummer in a previous life, right?

Yeah. You can see him sitting behind me. For those that you know, um, other than just an audio podcast, but the drums are stacked behind me. Yeah, I was playing drums in high school to like, take out frustration. I had that teenage angst. I listen to, you know, a bunch of emo music and it was like, kinda such a different time. Like, like these kids these days.

What were you listening to back then? Like, what were you Javon?

A lot of like, Taking Back Sunday, Thursday, early Fall Out Boy was like Blink waiting to some 41 new found glory, all those just like emo pop punk bands dashboard confessional. But then I was also listed like Goo Goo Dolls, and then Counting Crows. I was kind of all over the place. Because I have also put like, private girl coming over I put on John Mayer. You're definitely in that like Warped Tour, and I got the play Warped Tour. I got the blade war. Wow.

Like what, like who was on the bill that year? It was

amazing. It was like gym class heroes. Paramore was playing that early stage. Like they weren't even big yet. Story of the year. I mean, it was wild. It was it was 2005. We played it. So we would tour as we would tour with using MySpace. We would promote all of our shows with MySpace, we book all of our shows, through MySpace. We were ranked in the top 10 unsigned bands on MySpace like they used to rank the music. And so we were getting enough plays and enough traction around the country. We were top 10 unsigned bands. So we could we could message a venue on MySpace and be like, hey, look, this is a Can we come play your club, and they build shows around us and summer of 2005. We booked this whole tour we were on the road and Warped Tour got word of how good we were doing. And they called us. And we ended up canceling the rest of our tour and jumping on Warped Tour, which was awesome. And also so hard are the things I like Warped Tour was a whole different beast. But then we made like 80 grand that summer is for kids and in a van traveling around the country. And like in 2006 80 grand was a lot of money for for kids that were just living off of you know, gas station boot. And we took that money we moved out to LA and I've been here ever since. And we were crushing in LA to the band was called later days. Our music still like on Spotify, we have music and some TV shows like some of the Kardashian early Kardashian episodes and real world and stuff like that. So I get a little like 10 cent residual check every day. Live in the life. It adds up. Anyway, so we were doing well. We were just FM breakout star we got to play Wango Tango at Staples Center. We played jingle ball and then the band kind of it just kind of fell apart. But kind of at the right time because the music scene was changing. And pop was just becoming so big and punk rock Pop Pop Rock was just falling behind. Now there's a big resurgence but we're all too busy to jump back i But I kept playing drums and then I started playing for some pop singers and some pop groups. And I kept going kept going. I was in this one pop group, three girls, but the girls are just fighting. You're fighting the whole time and I was like you know what? like being a drummer, I'm always supporting the singer. I'm always supporting a frontman, and I have frontman energy when I play drums I play like, you know, I have Travis Barker vibes, you know. And I was just like, I need to go do something for me. And I just, I emailed mastership. And literally 20 minutes after my email went through, I brewed a cup of coffee and the phone rang and everything's history after that, that's quite

a transition there. Lots to unpack. So cooking and food, like, did you have any experience at all? Have you ever worked in a restaurant? Even fast food? I mean, it sounds like you didn't do culinary school or any of that didn't come up through the ranks, like so many of the cooks and chefs out there. How did you think? Or why did you think you had the chops to just go on Master Chef,

I'm the kind of person like, when I say I'm good at this, like, I truly know that I'm good at it. I've taken the time to understand. But until I get to that point, I'm like a ninja absorbing what's around me. So my first job to pay for my drum set. I was a grill cook at McDonald's, like literally flipping burgers, but you don't flip burgers, you just throw the patties on a on a flat top, and then you press him with another flat top. And then 30 seconds, they're done. Anyway, so I worked at McDonald's. You know, being a drummer in LA, you're not making a lot of money. So I had to work at restaurants. But I would serve at restaurants, you know, to get that quick cash. And long story short, one day, I had this client or this, this guest sitting at the table. I was working at CPA at the time, he was like, You got to work at a fine dining restaurant. He's like, if you want to make money, and also be a musician, and he's like, You need bigger money and you need to work less like you need to fine dining America. I was I Okay. The well the search. And then when I was waiting tables, at this fine dining restaurant, I started falling in love with like the creativity of the food. And so I would, I would get my tables taken care of and done. And I would go back to the kitchen, I would stand behind the path and I would just watch. And the chef started noticing is like, what are you doing? I was like I was watching and he was like, okay, and like, he just kind of it was like too busy to like, get on me about it. And then I got comfortable to where I could like ask him questions, because he saw that I was also the more I was learning from him. My sales were going up on the on the sales floor on the restaurant floor. So he's like, Okay, I'm gonna give this kid all the knowledge. So he kept every day like I'd learned something new from him learn from it, and I'd go home and I'd try it. And then I started buying fish from him. Like I wasn't going to the grocery store. I was like, Chef, there any Chile and sea bass leftover? Can I buy some or cod or whatever? Yeah. And he would sell it to me at cost, I would take it home and I would try to recreate his dishes and, and then I started just understanding like, how dishes were built by breaking his down. And so then I started playing with my own stuff. And then I would cook for my friends that we cook for the bands I was playing for. And then yeah, just I had enough friends like saying you need to do something with food. He needed some food. And I was like, I'm here to play drums. Like, I wasn't ready to like, give that up yet. And I find this on my podcast and I'm talking to a lot of people about, you know, where they were right before they went on a reality show. I was in a rough spot. Like I wasn't making enough money to really get by like, every, every month I was overdrafting and I was just like stressed. And I was like I need to do something that like is big. I need to like go try and win some money. So actually applied the chopped first I was like maybe I can win 10 grand a job real quick. Because I've watched that show enough. I was like I can go do that. Now I'm terrified. I don't even know if I would go do job. But I was like I'll apply to jobs. I didn't hear back from shopping. I was like what am I doing? I've watched every Gordon Ramsay show. Let me apply to Matthew. Sure enough, then they hit and I went in like super naive. And I think that's why I did so well because I wasn't trying to follow rules. I wasn't like building sauces. I wasn't doing it in a traditional way. I was just like focusing on making something taste good and look awesome

as the very first thing you made when you were on MasterChef.

So to audition, off camera. I did a seared scallop dish with a purple cauliflower puree roasted brussel sprouts, and a white balsamic gastrique which is like super cliche now but like in 2014 like a purple cauliflower puree with like all the rage. And like I looked back at the photo, it was so bad that like I didn't strain my peer I didn't pass it through a sieve. I think I just boiled the cauliflower which made it like very light purple, all kinds of air, you know, but like that's the thing like I didn't know and I was Just like I'm getting to turn this into a puree and make it taste good and I think enough butter and salt, it'll days get. So they liked it, they liked my personality. And then when the first time I cooked for Gordon Ramsay I did lamb lollipops, with a coconut curry sauce and quinoa. And I played it, it's super cool. I had it like stack I had I'm like all twisted like a pyramid and the Keane wall was all inside. And the sauce was just drizzled or dotted or whatever. And the juxtaposition I think is what they really liked, because like, I was in these torn jeans, I had chucks on and I had a $9 shirt that I cut $6 off of. Like, I just, I looked like I was ready to go play drums for like, rancid or something. But then I played this really, really pretty dish. And I nailed it like, what's crazy too is they tell you a little behind the scene, MasterChef before you come cook for Gordon Ramsay, they need to know all the ingredients because they got to supply them for you. So they need to know your ingredients, they need to know the recipe, so they know where to film. You know, like, if there's a flaw Bay in your recipe, they need to know where that is. So they make sure they capture it. They need to know all the pans because you're you're walking in. This is the first time you're cooking for them. So you have to submit a dish. And I had never cooked lamb because I could never afford it. Like I wasn't buying it. So I was just like, I understand the concept of how to cook this. And go bigger go

home, though to not have even like bought a Rachael Liam to try it just that one time.

Well, I didn't have the money. I was negative in my bank account I really wanted to. And what I was actually doing to lead up to practice before is I was calling friends and saying, Hey, bring some food over. I want to I want to do a dinner party. You guys bring it over? I'll cook it. But I couldn't tell them why? Because that has to be a secret. So you know, people were bringing stuff over. So I was getting to cook steaks, but no one was no one wanted to bring lamb everyone was like, oh, like lamb I'm like, like, so? Yeah, I just I just treated it. I don't know. I just used my instinct. I cooked it. And honestly, like, nailed it. Well, how

intimidating was it cooking for Gordon Ramsay

the first time it was insane. I mean, like, I mean, I was shaking so much that like, I had to practice doing the soft on like a blank plate because the sauce was going on after the lamb and I didn't want to fuck it all up. I was shaking so bad that like it would have looked like a Jackson Pollock painting about it just gone right at it. It was I mean, it was so intimidating. And also, well, I think we got like 30 minutes for our first audition to cook for him. And that 30 minutes feels like 30 seconds, man. I mean, it goes by so fast, it was going so fast that you forget little things like I threw a cast iron pan in the oven to get hot. So that while I was making the quinoa and the soft, I was using all my burners. I couldn't get that pan hot on the stove to steer the lamps. I threw it in the oven. And I was just moving so fast I literally reached in bare hand to grab the cast iron because I was just thinking about the fucking burn that burned my palm so bad that like we had a bandage it and luckily like the second episode did shoot or the the week after I got to heal, but it was it was bad.

Even if you got it out of the oven using an oven mitt, I guarantee you would have had it on the stove and you would have grabbed that with your bare hand. Right? Because that I do that all the time. It's like you do not do that. No, you always put it in the oven to finish something and then put it up on the stove and even 10 minutes later, you're like I gotta move this to the back because I need this front burner and you just grab it night. I would say for people who don't know it's like that scene in Raiders of Lost Ark where the guy grabs the thing out of the fireplace, you know, I'm talking about and it like burns into his hand. You get that like nice little circle in your hand where the no good, no good. The way

I prevent doing that is I leave a towel on it now. If it's hot, I leave a towel on the handle. But yeah, they'll do it. But then this last time, you know doing MasterChef all stars, I was actually more excited. I wasn't I wasn't intimidated by at all. The most stressful thing this time around was just like, the unknowns of the challenges. And I mean, for anyone that has watched the All Star Season like it became more about drama than about food and I got really annoyed with that. And so, you know, it didn't go my way but at the same time, I think that it went the way that it was gonna go.

Well, I'd love to hear about what happened between seasons six and 12. Because, you know, so you come off of that season, then what like what how were you able to kind of turn that into kind of more of a cooking career, what happened as soon as you were done with the show?

It was a really hard struggle at the beginning because we film it. And then we have to wait three, four months before we can announce. And it's like five months till the first episode airs. So there was this long period where I knew that I was runner up, but didn't win. So I had this feeling in the back of my head that thought in my head that they were going to edit me at some point to live like a villain because I didn't when I got lucky, they never did that. Because I never really gave him anything to villainize myself, but in power Hollywood, you know what I mean? Like, I was just still nervous. I was also struggling still, like, I finished I didn't when I had, I still came out of there with no money. And I was trying to figure out, you know, how to keep going. And like, I was trying to get server jobs. And they were like, what's this big six month gap? And I'm like, I can't tell you. So that was hard. A lot of family and friends were like, No, where have you been? And I was lying to them saying I was on tour. They're like, well, how come you weren't posting I was like, it was with a with an artist I wasn't allowed to share and like, I hated it. Also, I was like, I'm not a chef. Like I just did really well, a master chef. But like, I don't know anything about actually going and running a kitchen. I love food. I do love working in restaurants. But I've never been on that side. And so I thought to myself, I was like, Okay, how can I get like a crash course, to be ready for whatever airs because I knew there was I knew there was a moment when we were filming. I came home, I came back to the hotel. And like I wrote in my journal, I was like, I changed my life today. And it was one of those things that I just didn't know how it was going to pan out. And so before the show started airing, I went to a burger lounge and I was like, Can I start like at your lowest position in the back and work my way up? And they were like, what was this white dude coming here trying to do prep at Burger lounge? Because like, Southern California, there's not like a white dude doing prep. It's just like, they would never give me that job. I'm too slow. I don't I don't speak enough kitchen Spanish, like there's no reason. But I begged them for this job. They gave it to me. And I started just doing prep at Burger lounge and working my way up and one guy. One day one guy didn't show up for salad. So I got the salad station. And then one day the guy worked, the grill didn't show up. So I got grill that kicked my ass. But I learned I learned how to run a grill that is cooking, you know needs to tempt at a really fast pace. You know, I mean, burger Lounge is like fast casual. So you're getting, you're working at the fast pace of like a fast food restaurant, but you're cooking it as like a casual dining restaurant. So I learned a lot of systems. And then the TV show started airing and everyone, everyone at Burger labs, like, What the fuck are you doing? He was like, Alright, I'm out. And then I got lucky, the phone just started ringing. You know, there's a little bit of luck in everyone's success. And for me, it was just people started resonating. And they started messaging me on Facebook. And they started message me on Instagram. And so then I was I started juggling playing drums and going and cooking private dinners for people until the point that the private dinners became so much that they didn't have time to play drums.

Is that something you thought you wanted to do? Like, as you're going through the process of the show, thinking about like, Okay, this is going to open some doors. What did you think you were maybe going to be doing? Like after you got through, you know, the burger restaurant and all that. Were you thinking about private cheffing? Or thinking about like higher end restaurant cooking?

Yeah, I didn't know I did. I really had no idea what to do with it. And that's the hardest part was any like reality competition show where people are literally going there to change their lives. There's no manual, when you come out. There's nothing that says go do this. And so I had, I really had no idea what to do. So I just started. I was chasing everything that showed up. So if it was someone wanted a private dinner, I would go do a private dinner. If I saw a spot at a restaurant was open, I'd go apply. And I worked in a couple restaurants. I learned enough that one day I actually ran a kitchen in a restaurant. And I learned a lot about that too. Like when you're a chef and you're not the owner like you have to answer to these owners and they promise you the world to get you in and then when you get in, you find out everything's on cod and you have to cut people and send people home and fire people you're like this is terrible. So I just followed everything that was in front of me and and presenting itself and was just learning and a sponge along the way. And then it got to the point where I got asked to be a second chef on a really high end, private gig that was a like a, it was a three month gig at a big mansion in Bel Air. And it was so many people like there was two chefs on, we had three servers every shift we had, like, five housekeepers.

So this is like a private like a private chef gig for like one family.

Yeah, for for a royal family. It was insane. One of the craziest gigs still that I've ever done. And it went so well that the house manager really loved me and loved what I was doing with food. And he sent out my name to other house managers. And then that was it. And then it was like, everywhere was wanting me. So then from there, I went to another gig. And got I landed a full time private gig. And I really liked it because it went from I went from having to hustle one party to the next party to the next party, not knowing where the next phone call was coming from to. Now I have a six figure chef gig and the only stress I have is do they liked the food. And it was like, Okay, I really liked this. I don't like having to be tied to a restaurant and answer to owners. I was like, all I got to do is make these guys happy. But then I learned like this client really not fun because he just wanted well done filet mignon every day. I was like, at the beginning, I was super green. Oh, I can make the best well dove laying out, I'm gonna this is gonna be my challenge every day, I want to make sure he loves this thing. And then like, every one of them just like it just like, like, cut away at my zone the little little by little, and I was like, I can't do this anymore. I think it sounds

glamorous to the outsider to like work for a celebrity, right? Like, I have friends who like cook for pro sports players. And everyone's like, Oh, that would be so cool. And then you hear what they eat. It's like they're doing meal prep of like, playing chicken breast with like steamed vegetables every day. And if you're like a chef who likes to be creative and have that control. Yeah, it's kind of like soul sucking, I imagine.

It can be it can be and you have to find ways to not burn out. So after that well done filet mignon guy. I got called by a basketball player. And I went into that job because it was, it was more money. And he was super cool. Like, the restrictions I had with him. Were more just, he needed calories out to make him 4500 calories a day. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. And like that's really, really hard when you're doing it with a healthy diet. Like I couldn't just give them bread, you know, they may not have it like it had to be healthy. So you know, pancakes from scratch every morning, and it'd be like, you know, pancakes and eggs and sausage and, and it was like, Damn, that's only 900 calories, but like, watching what I do, you know a lot of calories and got creative with it. I made like these little frozen peanut butter bars. So that helped. That helped him get a lot. And then dinner, you know, we do big stuff. But he loved and I cooked him lamb like he loved that all the time. But he got traded, he went to DC. So I was like I did, I'm not going to do it. And that's the thing. Also, like you were saying, it looks glamorous. My client now is super glamorous. But I have to be really creative. And it's really difficult. I have restrictions like they can't have. It's gluten free. She's allergic to tomatoes. And she's vegetarian. But she loves pasta. So like making a bowl and A's with, you know, no tomatoes, gluten free. Like it's hard. But that's really creativity is I can like make a habit.

So are you exclusively right now? Is that all you're doing is just working with one client or do you still are you still able to like do one off events.

I'm exclusively with this client full time. I do like five, sometimes six days a week and then I'll do all their holidays and parties and all that stuff. But during the pandemic, I was cooking for them five days a week, but they weren't hosting the party. So I was just looking for this couple was just two people was just doing dinner with enough leftovers for lunch. And so I had to like I was like what do I do with my free time but everything was closed. I couldn't go anywhere. So I created this cookie company, epic mega cookie CO and developed through Shopify and you know, got the website build brought all my marketing creative side to life, and then launched August A 2021 was just on doing just online sales through the website through Shopify. And it's been going amazing. And we've just slowly been building that up and we just launched this Halloween we opened a retail shop at an outdoor like live above mall area in Playa Vista. And still shipping nationwide through the website. So that's been insane this holiday last year we were really busy doing just online now having the shop people seeing it word of mouth we've done 5x The amount of sales this Christmas so this holiday season, why cookies? Good question. Um, you know, being on MasterChef, I have this like rock and roll vibe. And you know, I approach everything. Like I approach to music, I break it down the same kind of way. And since leaving MasterChef season six, I was like, I need a product to sell, like I have fans, like, what can I sell them? And I tried to just do it like merchandise back in like 2015. And it was fine. But it's not what the people really wanted. You know, they wanted something that I can eat. I'm a chef, like, what is it? And like just doing a hot sauce? Yeah, it's cool. But there's so many hot sauces out there. Like, I'm not gonna stand out with that. And that's not really like, I love to eat hot dogs. But like, I make like fancy food. You know, like, Where does hot sauce play? So I was just thinking like, what can I ship? What is something that I can mail? What are the food that I can mail. And then I made cookies for my client one day that they were sending out for Valentine's Day to all their all their clients. And I took a little Instagram, and I put it on the gram and everyone was like, oh my god, are you selling cookies? And I was like, no, but maybe I should be

maybe. Would you buy him if I did?

Yeah, exactly. So I got a great response from just that. And I was like, Alright, now I gotta go make this cookie rocket roll. It was kind of like a happy accident. Like, I posted something. And the people responded. And so the way they responded, I was like, Okay, I'm gonna lean into this, but now I gotta put my rock and roll vibe on it. So I really created like, the punk rock of cookies. I mean, it looks. It's got a very punk rock vibe.

What's a punk rock cookie? What What flavors you got going on?

Like our first flavor was s'mores. But the whole thing about it. It's big. It's called Epic mega cookie. And, like, the box is a whole experience. You open it up, there's an alien in a spaceship inside. And he's like beaming up the cookie. Because there's like that underline. In punk rock. There's, there's an obsession with aliens. I don't know why, but it's there. I think Tom DeLonge was a big part of that. So I just put like, my spin on it. But then like, you know, I make the cookies like Sheffy. But like, for instance, right now we have a snickerdoodle cookie, but we do a bourbon caramel, and candied pecans in the snickerdoodle cookie. And it's an insane cookie. Then it came with this other cookie called chef's dream, which is I brown the butter first, and then chill it and then with the butter with the sugar with a brown butter bass. And then I pushed the salt, like to the max. Like when I was testing this cookie, it was like I made a bunch of Doze and I just added one more gram of salt in the each one taste and I got it. I pushed it all the way as far as I can push it. So it's brown butter, salt, and then butterscotch chips. And that cookie is like that cookie doesn't look fancy. Because it just I mean it's just a smooth top. I put sugar on top. So it looks like a sugar cookie. But when you bite into it, I mean it just Yeah, it's like a punk rock chorus

sounds like my jam like chocolates fine and all but I lean towards like butterscotch like a butterscotch pot to cram like, I'd rather Scotch chips in my cookies than chocolate chips. Like I'm totally with you. That sounds like an amazing cookie.

Well, it's becoming like the unsung hero like now that we've had the store open and it's been online more like more and more this cookie. Like every week we get more sales on this cookie than the other cookies. So it's it's becoming a fun one. So we do stuff like that. It's like we do pop ups with like markets and that we do like Limited Edition runs of cookies. So it's kind of like getting that limited edition CD or whatever like keeping it like that. And then now we have merchandise to like I'm wearing one of the one of the merchandise tatted up alien, he's got cookie boxers on.

People love that. Like I want all my gear to be just like chef friend restaurant stuff like I have like my winter hat this year is Chef Matt Collins like been a guest on the podcast like I'm wearing chef Collins winter hat everywhere. And it's like, I got my cat from my favorite barbecue spot in Texas. You know, it's like, I like that stuff. It's fun. I think the people love it.

Yeah. And then we also just launched cookies scented candles, too, you know, all the delicious Nathan zero calories?

Well, how do you manage your time? Because, you know, I think that's one of the things that many of us who are like solo entrepreneurs, like, it sounds like, you've got a lot going on with that alone. I think that is probably enough to take all your time, right. But then you also have like, a Chef client. So yeah, you know, how do you figure that out? I'm sure you clearly have people working for you now and with you. When did you decide that you needed to kind of like, bring people on to help with them and what that looked like, because I think that's one of the things a lot of our listeners struggle with is they want to grow and scale, but they don't really know when they need help and who to bring on to help them.

It's tricky. And I don't know if I've 100% Nailed it. But like, you do need a team, it's really hard to like, relinquish the responsibility on something that's so important to you. And so this has been a good practice of that. And it really shows like, you know, I created the recipe. And now it's like, okay, I got to type out this recipe so that it's foolproof, no matter who's doing it, they can follow this recipe. And then I know that it's good. And then I that was a good practice, like, Okay, let somebody do it. Don't worry about it. Like, let them put it in the cookie box, let them package it up, let them send it out. And letting go. And seeing it still work. It actually makes your foundation stronger. And then it's like, Okay, what else can I delegate, it was really learning how to delegate. I mean, I couldn't do any of this without my wife, she is fully immersed herself into it as well. So you learn to lean on the people around you. I mean, she does so much. But also we have friends that, like we have friends that will come over and just drink wine and help us box cookies because they want to hang out with us. And like, don't feel bad about asking someone you know, you'll learn who your true friends are, when you have a small business, they'll they'll show up. Even with some private gigs, like there was one time I had a chef cut himself unloading his mandolin. And it was so bad. He had to go straight to the hospital and get stitches and, and he joins me now. And so I put an apron on my wife. And I was like, okay, everything that I knew that I could just explain and have her do it, she did it. She cut things, she cooked things and just followed by direction. And so it's really about just learning how to delegate. You know, you look at someone like Gordon Ramsay, and it's like, Man, how does, how does he have, you know, 15 tv shows, 2530 restaurants, however many Michelin stars? Well, he just delegates you learn, you learn how to delegate. So I'm still learning how to do that. But I think that's really the answer is you just got to learn how to create a product or create your vision in a way that you're gonna explain it to somebody else and let them take it and go with it and just try.

And I think, you know, sometimes we think, Oh, well, everyone can see me struggling and they would offer to help me, you know, but because they haven't, you know what I mean? Like, you get caught up in your head where like, oh, I don't need to ask for help, because people will just see that I need help. But it doesn't work like that. Like the amount of times where I've just like finally said like, Hey, can somebody give me a hand? And everyone's like, Oh, yeah, of course. But like, you don't get that help. If you don't ask, you know,

exactly, you don't. And then also, it's just like, You got to be willing to just put in the hours. I mean, last week, I did somewhere 130 335 hours, bleeding into the next week. And like, my wife was right there with me the whole time. And, you know, it was like, we just busted it out. And because we know, it's like, it's the holidays, like January was not gonna be this busy. So we got to get it now. And so it's just making those small sacrifices. And then you grow from it. It's like with my client to like Thanksgiving, I had to cook for like 16 people. So I was prepping all that plus, you know, cooking for them every day. Plus, like, I was in Dallas, I was just making phone calls where the cookie. And then it got cut down to a smaller number for the meal. But whatever it was like I was doing so much that the following week, I was just cooking for two people. So I just felt more relaxed. And I was like, Oh, I have all I have so much more time and then you started learning like where you can manage that time. This last week, doing all the cookie stuff, all the restaurant stuff, all the podcast stuff that this week just like I'm like, Ah, I can just make cookies all day today. I got nothing to do but make cookies. You know,

you just like dropped in there that you have a podcast so even haven't even talked about that. So I want to touch on that a little bit like So you've got a podcast, you talk to reality TV stars, right? Not winners of shows.

Yeah. So it's called a bunch of blue here is with Derrick box. And I interview anyone that's been on a reality competition show that did not win. And I thought of this idea before going on Master Chef, all stars. I also started the cookie before Master Chef also. So just to go back to a previous topic we were talking about, like, when I came off of season six, I didn't know what to do. When I got the call for all stars. I was like, I know exactly what I'm doing. And I started putting things in play before I even went there. And before I even went and filmed, because I knew, like when I come off of this, I need to have something to sell. When I come off of this, I need to have a podcast, I need to have a place for people to go watch content. I hate doing cooking videos. But I do them because people enjoy them. So that's kind of like, you know, you know, in the Hollywood, they're like, We do one for you and three for me or whatever. Like the cooking videos near my one for them.

That sucks though. Because like I hear this so often with creators it just like the time sock like they don't want to do them, but they do them. Like when can we just do what we want to do without having to do the one for them. But you know that we could get sidetracked going down that road for sure.

So would they But to answer the question about the podcast, I came up with the idea. I knew a production company that I had worked with before I presented it with them. Before we even shot the first episode I just made I know that duck. For those that don't know what a decade, it's just like, it's basically like a PDF pitch of what you're trying to create with, you know, photos and lines and captions and stuff. So I made a deck pitch to them. I also had a friend that was like, I know someone that I heart. And I had already signed with this production company. And then I heart got wind of it. And they loved the idea. And they were like trying to buy the podcast from us. And I was like that's a sign I was like, I don't even have episode recorded yet. And I I heard wanting to buy it. I'm like, okay, one. My years in Hollywood. I'm like, I'm gonna hold on to it, you know? So I'm like, nope, hold on to it. But it also lit the fire under the podcast, or the production company. They're like, Yes, this is good. So they leaned in. But then I got a bookstore, Master Chef all stars and was like, Okay, I gotta go see if I can win this thing. And if I win those, we'll just title the podcast of the house, we'll do something else. But let me go to our Windows first. And then when I did it when it was like, it's okay, because this podcast is going to be big. There was that it was like it clicked. Like when you say the name a bunch of losers. You're like, wait, what? Like, why do we want to hear from these losers? Well, because when you go on a reality TV show, if you do well, you win, you change your life. And everyone I've talked to has in some way to change their life, drastically. I mean, I love talking with people, I love sharing stories. And really, that's what a podcast is all about. So I've been learning how to be better of it. But it's one of those things where I just love doing it.

Yeah, it's not something I ever thought I was gonna do. Like, I've talked about this on the show so many times, but like how it came about, I hadn't even really thought about it until someone suggested it to me. But you know, so many people start podcasts, they have training, they've been in journalism, they know how to interview or they have the editing down, I was just like, I've never interviewed people, I don't know anything about recording or editing, we're just gonna start this show, I didn't have a production company, right. And the amount of things I've learned along the way has been phenomenal. But I just at its core, I really want to talk to people and have them be able to share their stories, that's at the end of the day, I just want to have a good conversation connect with some people. And you know, if I can give them a platform, you know, I'm not necessarily going for the big name people, right? Like, sometimes it's hard because I'll have some big name person reach out and want to come on the show. It's like, I really want to save this space for you know, not that you're a lesser known person. But you know, it would be cool to have this celebrity chef on the show. But I really want to have that guy who's just like a personal chef in Denver or whatever, who nobody's heard of before. I think that's more interesting.

But I like that you both for you. It's not about so much like your interview skill you have you created a niche that you knew there's a lot of people out there, right, like Chefs Without Restaurants. I mean, it's just, I just think that's brilliant. And I'm glad that you're doing it because there are a lot of us that were carving a path. And we don't necessarily get the guidance that we need, because we don't know who to talk to. We don't know, because most of the time the private chef is very hidden. You know. I know when I first came off master chef and I wanted to start doing private dinners. I reached out to some chefs and they were Like, they wouldn't tell me what to do, they wouldn't give me any advice. They wouldn't share how much they were charging. It was almost like they ignored me. And we're like, figure it out. And I kind of get it now. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't want to be that guy now, like, I've let people in, I teach them what to do. I show them how to make make themselves be successful. Because you share your talent and share your success with other people. That comes back to you a bit more.

And, you know, for me, the market is huge, like, even in a small to midsize city. Like, if you're not having other chefs like for your business, go out and work, then you can only do one event a day. And you probably can't work seven days a week, I'd be surprised if a lot of chefs, private chefs could work five days a week. So if someone wants to hire me on a Friday night, and I'm booked like, it doesn't hurt me to pass that along, and it doesn't hurt me to tell someone else in my area, how to be a better personal chef, like I just, I don't see that it doesn't come off as competition to me.

Yeah, I mean, you do have to you do have to vet those chefs. Because if you stick a chef with a client, and they fail, then that also that's where it hurts you 100% Because I had that happen. When you do it right, and you vet the right chef, then it comes back to you. They're like, Oh, this chef was amazing. Who else can you get up? And it's like, and then you get to start making a fee off of booking another chef. And I think that's where all private chef, that's where we can grow, right? Like, when you have one client, there's where else do you go, you can't go anywhere. You got to be able to hire other chefs and place them and make money from law so you can grow your business.

That's kind of the intersection where I'm at right now and just kind of deciding which road to go down. Because that becomes like a whole other thing. Like how much time do you want to spend being like a staffing agency, right, you know, like, right, Headhunter or whatever. Like, if you really love just being out there cooking. Is that something you should stick with? Or should you go down that road of trying to connect chefs with clients, and I've kind of got like one toe in each pond there.

Yeah. And I felt the same way. Like I leaned into it. And then I was like, this is for me, it wasn't worth it. So now I just do it. Like if one of my chefs hits me up, like, hey, I need work. I put them at the top of my list. And then if someone calls I connect them. And depending on the situation, I'll take the finder's fee or I won't. And that's as far as I'll go with it. Like I don't want to have all the staffing agency.

Well, what's next for you? Do you have anything slated that you can talk

about? You know, the cookie, we we've got that going we have the store runway, Playa Vista. We got new flavors coming out always. I'm about to launch epic mega minis that are going to come in an assortment package so you can try multiple cookies without having to buy the giant cookie.

Is that like an oxymoron? Mega Mini? Yeah,

it's ridiculous. Ilona. We're gonna see out we're gonna do a trial, we're gonna see how it works. Sign up, I'm going to be doing a VIP tasting Tuesdays. So everyone on our VIP list, they can come to the store on Tuesdays, and get a sample of new ideas free of charge. Just come in. But you have to be on the VIP list. We're gonna do those one, one Tuesday, a month. What else I got going on. I mean, obviously the podcast, I got a lot of really big guests lined up for January. Let me ask you a question. Do you have a favorite client that you ever worked or that you can share?

A favorite? Yeah, like so I only do one off parties. And I did Ali Krieger who's a women's soccer player. I did her bachelorette party a couple of years ago. And it was booked through her best friend who does not play pro soccer. But I always try and dig as much info as I can. So in this woman's like, oh, it's for my friend who's a woman soccer player and whatever. I just started googling. So I kind of had an idea. And I was hoping and I get there and all the women at the party except for the host play for like a women's us like soccer team had played like nationals, like So Ali was on the women's team that one like three, four years ago or something like that, like Women's World Cup. And there was just like, Crystal Dunn was there. Like she just was the team that won like the Women's Championship here like two months ago, like my son and I went saw them play in DC. So they were super cool. They did an 80s themed prom bachelorette party. So it was like the day after Halloween. So they all came like wearing like 80s gowns and stuff. And they wanted Mexican food, which is my favorite. So like I brought a guy with me and we were like making homemade tortillas like tortillas to order had like three kinds of meats, all the sauces, but she was super cool about sharing to social media because, you know, any of these people are really private. And when she was there she you know, tons of photos videos with us. She's got like, you know, I don't know For 100,000 followers on Instagram and posting that stuff, but I've also said that like, that didn't give me like a big bump in business, because I think a lot of people are like, wow, I'm gonna cook for the celebrity. They're gonna share it on social, but it's like, it's so fast. Like, even if it's a static post, it gets buried so fast. So you can put that as part of your resume or on your like, Hey, I've cooked for. But that really doesn't translate, right? Like, being in LA, I'm sure you see that all the time. Like, just because you cooked for a well known person one time does not necessarily give you that social leverage that people hope it does.

I've had to go both ways I've had, I like to, like I cooked for Ty Dolla Sign. And he was sharing my stuff on his story. And it got me new followers, a lot of new followers. But it didn't lead to any new business. But then, when I was cooking for the basketball player, he started sharing my stuff. And I booked three gigs, through people that were fans of his that had the money that could afford me and they were like, so excited to be able to eat the food that their favorite la Laker eats. You know, it was like, That was how weird but it was cool. So I've had I've had to go both ways. But I think, you know, when those celebrities do that, when they share with no strings attached, like, I think some of them understand how important that is, I think others like they don't understand, and we're really grateful. And then the ones that don't keep it private, and they're like, don't support in that way. Because they're not getting paid. You see that too. And I think I think that's the worst way to be about it. But I mean,

it was cool. Like it was a fun party. Like I was honored that we could do it. And it was, you know, the food that I loved cooking and people who are really nice. I've cooked for other well known people who are like, super cheap, kind of like Dick's To be honest, like, like one guy who was nickel and diming me and you know, like, he rented an air like rented out an Airbnb for a whole month, like during COVID. So he could like be private and not around people. And he's like, every single like trying to get me for like, $60 ahead when like, I've been charging like, yeah, like way above that. And you know, like, Well, I'm gonna shop around, I'm like, feel free to shop around, like, but then you know who he is. And you're like, wow, this guy. Yeah. People like that sometimes I think are used to treating people they hire like the help you know what I mean? Like, and I just, I'm over being the help, like, I don't care what I'm getting paid for this. Like, if I get the vibe that you're just gonna have me be your like, beck and call servant. I'm just not interested in doing it. That's where I'm at in my career, and I'm comfortable knowing that

I think all clients, they eventually learn that, like the chef was not to help like their housekeeper, you know, right. First of all, you're lucky that you can afford both. And you shouldn't treat the housekeeper any less than the chef. But I guess what I'm saying is that, like, we're putting the food in your body, dude, like, you need to be really nice to that person. Like, you need to treat me like a part of the family. You I think anyone that has a private job, they should, they should find the chef, that they feel like that person is part of the family. Because I've been all of it, I've been the guy that has been treated like the help I've been the guy that's the rock star chef, but they they're, they're hiring me just because they wanted to get me. And then I've also like, now I have the client where I literally feel like I'm a part of the family. And I can walk in, walk in and around their house at any time and have conversation, sit down at the dinner table, like, open their fridge, you know. And that's the best place to be like, you know, when your client gives you a hug at the end of the night and just says I love you. Like, that's the highest place you can be as a private chef. And and that's the best place to be because then you are stress free and performing at the highest level.

Well, one of the questions I always like to ask is, what does it mean to you to be a chef?

You know, it's really it's a very simple but very deep question. Because I know when I first started, it was like, there were chefs that were like, well, you're not a chef. And it's like, well, everyone calls me chef. So I don't know how to want to know how to answer that because like I show up, I cook food. And people throw that word around a lot. Right. But you know, when you look at someone like Josiah Citrin or some others that are Michelin star chefs and never went to culinary school, their chefs, you know, I think, really what a chef is is a person that can be creative with food, and also manage the food and the waste and the budget. I think it's it's someone that can lead a team. I mean, you don't have to know everything about every cuisine to be a chef, I think it's more about being the leader. And being able to manage the food and the expectation from the guest and the client. And then also, you know, make good delicious food and make people happy. So I think being the show, like, what is the chef? It's a very difficult question. You have to know that you are doing something more than just anyone that knows how to cook. Right. I think that's really what it is. You're doing more than anyone than anyone who just knows how to cook. All right,

that's a good one. Thanks so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate you taking the time. It's been such a pleasure getting to know you a little bit and talking to you today.

Yeah, man, please stay in touch. And yeah, let me know. And this is live and everything. I enjoyed it. Thank you.

And to all of our listeners. This has been Chris with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. Thanks so much for listening and have a great week. Go to chefs without restaurants.org To find our Facebook group, mailing list and Chef database. The community is free to join. You'll get gig opportunities, advice on building and growing your business and you'll never miss an episode of our podcast. Have a great week.