Mr. Bake - Talking About Sweets, Cooking on TV and Representation in the Food Media

Welcome, everyone. This is Chris Spear with the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. Today I have Kareem Queeman, better known as Mr. Bake. He's the owner and operator of Mr. Bake Sweets, a small dessert studio located in Largo, Maryland. He's been baking for 20 plus years now. He's done a few television appearances on Food Network, Fox, ABC and Discovery Family. He's also a 2020 business of pride honoree by the Washington Business Journal. Mr. Bake prides himself on diversity, inclusivity, community outreach, and always making the world a better place one cake at a time. Welcome to the show Mr. Bake.

Hey, thanks for having me.

Thanks so much for coming on the show. It's good to talk to you virtually. I guess I haven't seen you in person in probably close to a year now.

Yes, actually, you're absolutely right about that. Geez.

Yeah, time flies, right. Like these eight months have passed by in a blink of an eye.

Right. You know what, and I will say COVID is its own year. So it's like when you say anything after anything pulse call video. Like when was that again?

I think we need to find a new way to kind of date things kind of like the BC and AD kind of like, we're just gonna like, start the clock again. Can we like when this is over? Can we call it year one or something? Right? It's all gonna be like, the earlier times or something like that.

Before? COVID? Yeah.

The new BC. I would love to kind of start the show with a little bit of your culinary background. So Have you always been interested in sweets and working in desserts? Like I've read some interviews where you said it like the age of five or something? You're interested in sweets? Is that is that right?

Yeah, absolutely. So um, interesting. Just I finally got the story down correctly, it was the age of 10. And fell in love with sweets always. You know, kids eat the likes and kind of candy. But mine was baked goods, you know, apple pie, layer cake pound cake. Give it to me all forget about dinner type situation. And then that, that curiosity, excuse me that love of sweets? went into curiosity like, Oh, well, you know what, since I only get cake on these occasions. Now when I make my own cake, because you know, as a kid, you see all the many crackers and appeals berries that look bright and vibrant. So it's like, I want to make my own cookie. So that's kind of how that started.

Yeah, I remember being the same way. I didn't move into the pastry profession. But I remember in like fourth grade, like I had a friend who had surgery or something or he broke his arm and like baking a cake and everyone kind of made fun of me. Like you're like a third grader baking a cake for friend. It's like, yeah, who doesn't love cake? Like, I'll bake you a cake if you know you fall in a puddle. Like any reason to make a cake, right?

Yeah, exactly. I love the

cake. I mean, and that was me though. So I was I'm from New York City originally. And I was the kid on hustling bustling on in rush hour with a cake dome or some box. And a book. I always was a reader, you know what I mean? So I'm always like, fitting through the doors reading a book and holding a cake. I get every classmate a K. They paid me you know, cents on the dollar, like, you know, buy the cake bake. So I thought about cake mixes. So it's like buying a cake, mix the eggs and milk or whatever I needed to create your cake. And same thing with teachers, they poured back into me and stuff like that. So that was fun, actually.

Yeah, I want to jump in really quickly about cake mixes because I talked to a lot of people about this. I don't think they're a terrible thing. I mean, obviously, you're, I'm sure not making your case from a cake mix. But you know, like these companies have spent probably like billions of dollars in r&d. Like I don't think it's terrible to take a cake mix at least to start and you know, I've doctored cake mixes and done some really cool things like what are your thoughts on that?

Um, let me say something I love mixes mixes was my start for me. You know, my mother. My family comes from the south. And my mom wasn't the best they actually she didn't make anything like no baked goods. Um, but she can cook so you know, she was like, we're gonna make a cake out the box. Like I started out the box. I actually did box mixes for a very long time. I worked at a lot of great um, bakeries in New York City that still use mixes to this day. Um, some of them even helped with that's how old they are they helped with by pills varies on current mix that they have now. You know what I mean? So I don't think anything's wrong with mix I think mix keeps your cost of goods down especially if you are like learning you don't really know how to bake but you know how to decorate things like that and then you can take new things up in doctorate you know, like take out the water Add milk in near some using margarine, use the butter you know, things like that add extracts and spices and things like that like fresh ingredients that will turn that box into something totally different. I remember that now. You got me in the store. You don't mind me. So I worked at a bakery and they use box mixes box mixes as well. And one of the decorators was like oh Korean try this cake mix that was a duck unhide butter recipe she said something to water. For orange juice and the cake is gonna change it's gonna make orange cake. She said not necessarily. And I tried that baby, that joint was a winner. I was making that cake for a few years. A few years. So back to your original comment note, if you got to start at mixes, or your brand is based around mixes just be truthful about it. Like you know, don't say you are from scratch bakery and you don't make from scratch.

Yeah, well, most cake recipes don't have what I call a water component. So like there's no way to switch it in. So like I started doing chocolate cakes, where I would take the water out and put like a stout beer in there or put coffee or something. And it's really hard to figure out if you find like a chocolate cake mix, there's it's usually doesn't have like water or some kind of water based liquid. So the mixes worked really well. So I love like the ghiradelli triple chocolate cake mix, and I put in stout beer, and then I'll throw in cinnamon and chilies and bake it up. And you know the cake mix is like 250 and then you just got to eggs in a little oil. So that's one of my favorites to do.

Yeah, absolutely. Look at that what you did you just put so many different flavors in that box cake. If you served me that box cake this weekend, I would not even know the difference. You know, like to be 100% honest, I wouldn't know the difference. But I personally because I went to culinary school and because learning I just take I like making baking from scratch. It's very therapeutic to me being in the kitchen weighing things out. I know a lot of people listening to this is like no baking I can't do it is the exact science is too tedious. And you're absolutely right, you know what I mean? A lot of things you cannot play around with, in freestyle if you do not know the metrics, as well as you can do with cooking. And I think that's what I like about it a lot more to that it takes more time to actually prepare a proper, you know, if it's a French Macron, or an Eclair or anything like that, you know, to me, it takes time to prepare these things. Like I like the outcome of the struggle before you you know when or see how it comes out.

Yeah, I I've really gotten nerdy about weighing things. Now, you know, I was, I think there's kind of like that pastry chef weighs everything in the common areas like freestyle, right? But then, you know, as you get older, it's like, well, we should all be weighing everything. Like I tell everyone just buy a cheap digital scale. If nothing else, like I'll put recipes. Now, on my website, I did a lot of bread baking, like everyone did when COVID started. And people get like, what are the cup measurements, I'm like, I have no idea. Like I'm making foccacia and I'm gonna weigh everything, here's a link to the scale I use. It's like $15 on Amazon. Like if you can't be bothered to spend $15 on a scale, like you shouldn't be baking anyway, like,

don't make it hard for them. You know, most people do not have a scale and they gotta run to any like convenience store to get like, you know, a quick set of like teaspoon cups and measuring cups, because they think that they can go to the quickest thing to do what they need to do to make this little, you know, whatever districts or

I've written some recipes, where I said, it's half of a third cup, like, How stupid is that, but what's half of a third cup because I want what I was wearing it and grams like and I knew how much I want it. It's like there's no measurement for that. I don't you know, maybe it's like two tablespoons and two teaspoons or something. But I'm like, we'll fill out a one fill up a one third cup halfway. It's like, that's stupid, just like get a scale and figure out what it is like, I have no other way. And I have no patience for that anymore. Like,

I got you. I love it. I love how you're over. And I can do both. You know, I started out with weight measurement. So before I went to scale in college I was doing so I can't Sorry, I'm laughing at you. And let me tell you something. I know we are going to talk about TV shows and competitions. But that was one thing that back that I bake in small batches. And I also knew how to do scale and cut measurements, because that's normally what they had. So I was like, oh, that I can measure my stuff really quickly.

Yeah, it took a little getting used to but like, I see more even savory chefs using weights like as you start to get more cookbooks, you know started with like the European chefs, you get like Rene redzepi, or any of them, like everything's in grams, but then even American chef started doing it. It's like, well, it's not just baking anymore. So you know, so I got a couple scales, you know, you look like a little crack dealer with your little micro grant. Right, because now, you know, everyone's doing like hydrocolloid or for spices or something. So I've got the two scales that when you have the little one where it's like, you know, point seven grams of guar gum, it's like you have your very tiny little scale and I've my little like weights and measure things like I'm calibrating a scale at the Gold Exchange or something. It's kind of ridiculous.

No, I know exactly what you mean.

So how did you end up getting to where you are now with your own business like in an abbreviated kind of version? Like what was your path of now having Mr. Baig sweets?

Well, honestly, at a young age, I always knew that I wanted to be my own boss. Ironically, I don't know where that spirit came from, but it was always instilled in me. Um, I was like, you know, I had a couple of options that I wanted to do was like to be a pastry chef or some type of food chef, I didn't know which one is gonna be baking or pastry. And I'm a teacher or lawyer. And then I wind up going, obviously, the cooking route, baking route. But honestly, I always knew I was going to work for myself, I always had that push and drive to be my own boss, it was just about navigating through different bakeries going to call them every school to really harness those skills to then make me feel comfortable to then say, I want to step out and do my own thing. I had a bucket list. Honestly, I'd like 18, I made a bucket list of all the career options that I wanted within the field in the food field. So I said I wanted to work front of the house, every every department in the house and in every position in the back of the house as well. So I mean dishwasher all the way to your GM and then like a fake district manager of like crumbs bake shop where I used to work, I used to work I used to oversee two stores.

So did you do that and work every position?

Absolutely. Yeah, I was the dishwasher. That cake, the wholesale Baker, the just the decorator, the cupcake person only I did a couple of cookies, then I was a cashier for Risa only. So yeah, did every position,

I think you have to be well rounded. Not even just because you want to own your own business. I think not enough people have worked, you know, like not enough cuts have worked front of the house or work dishwashing or something like that. And it really makes you well rounded. You have a great idea of how a whole operation works just by getting in and doing all that stuff.

Slowly. I mean, one of the I think one of the motivating factor was to honestly learn every position because I knew that I would be hiring people for those set positions. And I wanted to be able to speak from their speak to and from their experiences of working in that field, or why me working in that department, whatever it may be in the kitchen. You know, if you were a dishwasher, I know what it is to be a dishwasher. Because I've worked with a lot of business owners, small business owners that is that never done like wholesale baking. Never like done. dishwashing never done anything. So when they see stuff, they're like frantic and they want you to come and be the savior. You know, I mean for their business or for whatever's going down.

Yeah, I've even said to my cooks like working in the dish room, even for just like one shift. It's kind of humbling. But you can kind of see like what's coming back on the plate, you can learn so much, right? Like the the waitstaff can tell you, oh, the customers, I don't think like this, and the cooks are kind of like whatever. But if you're in the dish room, and like the broccoli comes back, you know, 95% uneaten on every plate, like there's probably an issue there. Or, you know, if the steak is half eaten, it's either not cooked, right? Or maybe the portions too big. Like you can learn a lot just by auditing what comes back in the dish room alone.

So true, I worked in a couple of catering companies, DC and New York. And I was in the dish room. And both of those pins because I haven't really worked in a restaurant, or any place, I've never really worked unless it was like an internship. But I never like fully work on the line and was busting it down to two o'clock in the morning. I definitely haven't done that. Because I knew that the path I wanted to go was to be a cake decorator. So I was like, I don't need to do that. But you're right, I looked at all the food. And then when I used to make the desserts for these catering companies, I used to look back, okay, they didn't eat all the chocolate cake or they didn't eat the apple pie. You know what I mean? They maybe eat the ice cream and then eat it. So you're absolutely right, you did get to see what people like and didn't like.

And you know, it also breaks the monotony. I mean, not that, you know, you ever really want to get off the cooking line go work in the dish room. But like the last place I worked was in a restaurant, we're in contract food, but like, I went to hiring a universal worker where we let you know when you're hired that like you might be working in the kitchen, at the bar in the waitstaff or in the dish room. And it was really interesting that like you would have a cook split their shifts, so they do like four hours of prep, but then they go be the waiter. So like when they sold specials they like had their hand in what they're making during the day, or the guy on the bar that night had been in the kitchen or you know, like my sous chef took over the bar a lot of nights or a lot of nights. You know, one of your line cooks would be a dishwasher, and just kind of the synergy like it built a respect for the people doing those jobs, because I think there is the wall of like us in that like the cooks. Yeah, waitstaff or something. But it was really interesting to see how things were impacted. Like if you go and you pick up a bar shift after you've been prepping half the day, like you might have a better idea of what cocktails are going to pair with the food because you were actually the one prepping the food for that night and a different cook was executing it. And I really liked that I'd love to see more places doing that. Maybe that was

a great concept.

What we like what we got into is we needed to hire a lot of part time people and where I was working, nobody wanted part time work like it was really hard to get a waitstaff come in and just work like a four hour shift or something. So we wanted to offer them eight hour shifts. So it's like well, you come And work like, you know, 12 to eight. So 12 to four, you can work in the kitchen and four to eight, you work as a waitstaff or something like that. So it's a way to kind of give everyone full time hour. So instead of having a ton of part time, people who weren't really invested, we had almost exclusively full time people who are getting paid benefits, and all of that, and they were really invested in the business, but they kind of switched around. I just let them know like, your schedule is gonna have you on some cooking shifts, some weight shifts, some bar shifts, and it was really interesting.

Oh, that sounds dope. I like that. I like that though. It's cross training, too. So it's really good.

Yeah. And yeah, it really helps when you have a call out, you know, when you have a call out on a Friday night, it's like, I can pull one of 20 people to pick up the shift, not just like one of five.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You actually make your pool of support bigger. Yeah, absolutely agree.

Where the name Mr. Bake come from?

Is So Mr. Big actually came from one of my close friends out in New York City when we met at a sneaker store. And we were just shopping and I'm actually over sneakers. And then he was like, Oh, you know what, you know? Anyway, like, later on, we became friends. And he was like, I'm gonna call you Mr. Bake, because you bake cakes. Literally, it was that quick. He's very witty though. And quick on his feet. So then obviously, he started introducing me to everybody that all his friends as Mr. myko Bake for sure. Because we all were around the same age. Um, and everybody called me it was to the point where three, four years of knowing certain people, they didn't even know my first name.

Yeah, I don't think I've heard you refer to by name anywhere kind of like on the internet or anything you do. Really? It's just, you know, it's great branding. I mean, was that intentional that you carried forward with that? Because it seems like you've really branded yourself really well. And I've just held on to that.

Yes, that actually was intentional. I had people come in, you know, as PR people come in and work and say, oh, Kareem. And I was like, No, I'm branding myself, as Mr. Beck, you know what I mean? It's kind of in my head, separating my personal life with the actual brand a little bit, even though they all intertwined into each other. But it does give me a little break. You know, like, I can be Korean. And then I can be Mr. Bay, kind of like a superhero. You know, I always had infatuation with toys, and superheroes and stuff like that. So I guess it's kind of gives me like, a souped up.

Yeah, I think is really smart. And you seem like you're made for that kind of thing. Like, all of your photos, your photos and videos, you're like smiling, you're like dancing, you have this great personality. And I think that's really important, especially in this day and age. I mean, it just seems like you're having a really good time with things but like, almost smile, just seeing you like going through your Instagram feed and the videos, like you're always like, right now, like you're smiling and happy. And it seems like it's not a show. And that's just your personality. And I think that goes a long way. And, you know, it seems like you're Hey,

you know, thank you, I appreciate that. As I started to do more television, on a national level, I started getting that a lot. You know, a lot of times we do that know, our own powers and abilities, you know what I mean? And it's just kind of just, you know, moving through life, you know, on that saying, like, a like you're just moving through aimlessly, but you know, moving through life, many making things happen and creating and, you know, finding out and discovering and all of that, but you don't really know your power, you know, and then most recently, with all of the TV exposure and my random people who don't know me, and like for yourself who's only been in presence with me one time, um, you know, you have such nice things to say. And that really is my personality, you know, I am, you know, the kind of person who wants to make people feel comfortable on when you're in a space with me, because I know what it is to be uncomfortable, you know, to me or not wanting or not heard. So always try to be the opposite for people. Because I know that the struggle is

so how did you get into all the TV appearances? Do you? Do you have to approach people? Do people come to you? Do you like have a PR company you work for? What's that look like? Because people are always asking me like, do you know how to get on TV show? It's like, well, I've never been on TV shows. I don't know.

I'm what I think that's gonna be like one of the questions people are gonna ask me a lot, which is cool, because I like talking people through that. Um, but honestly, it was. One was just me thinking about being on a TV show. Let me go backwards. I always watch Food Network. I mean, when Emeril Lagasse live was on Food Network, I was a kid that was like, bam, was the first thing I remember. My mom used to speak into me that on particular, one of those shows one day, and that just brings joy to my heart, you know, so fast forward now I'm gonna tell and I'm like, you know, in my brand, I'm moving to shake and I'm developing things and I'm trying to get the name out there more because I've always wanted to have a household name. So I was like, you know, I'm gonna apply for a competition and we don't like the beginning stages of, of the baking spring competition situation that Food Network does not apply for Windows because I felt more comfortable doing a baking show. And I applied, it's a vigorous application. Well, back then it was the we're talking 2015 I started applying and I didn't get paid, you know, I got all the way up to the second kind, I didn't get paid. And then that didn't defeat me, it did make me go off because you do all this work. So anybody who's talking about want to be on TV, be prepared to send photos, be prepared to be on 1000, when your zoom calls, meaning like, you need to show a lot of personality, because you're not only showcasing your talent, but you also have to realize you have to bring ratings in for that show, you have to look good on TV, you have to be able to talk and work at the same time. You're not me, because I don't want you to do those things. Um, so I wasn't getting selected for a pilot, and 2016 that never got picked up. But that gave me the real life on set how it felt to be behind a camera, what producers were looking for on the production company, like the owners of the production company gave me big up. So that put more of a battery in my back to continue to prevail to TV, I'm gonna push through that I should say, and then I started to apply for another competition, which was the kick bosses competition, and we wind up getting that. And to be honest, I wasn't even gonna take that competition. And I was like, No, I'm not gonna do this, um, it's just too much, I had lost my mom in 2017. And prior to losing her, she fought for her life for seven months. So just a really depressing year for me and her being in New York and me being here in the DC area. So when we got the show a guy cast it for the show, I just, it was just too much. Um, but then I got a lot of doing it, you know, we wanted to winning, but it's not even that we won, it was that I had so much fun doing it. And then it reminded me of how I felt in 2016 when I was on set for that pilot. And then from there, I said, You know what, I'm gonna probably just start doing some more television. And I, in the midst of me thinking that same year, which is 2018, I was like, You know what, I need to be a beacon of hope, because there's no representation. When it comes to people that look like me, and that's black, or brown, people of color, or black or brown chefs who might be openly gay. I'm an openly gay chef. So I was like, there's nobody on TV. There's no personality out there. That's me, that looks like being that speaks to us, or anybody with my background. Um, so I just wanted to stay at the strip the ship straight ahead. And honestly, I know I'm going up because I'm leading up to something. Honestly, what happened was in 2019, a producer hit me and she said, You're too skilled. For me, I'm the amateur bakers. But she wanted people that were males, he was having a hard time finding males, and I think really knows a color. But she didn't want to say that. So I gave her six people. She said, Oh, my God, thank you so much. When something opens up on my end, that I feel that you're the right fit for I will reach out to you. And what did she do? Six months later, she reached out to me as an opportunity. And she did the entire application for me and said, I'm gonna hook you up with my girlfriend, Stacy, she's really cool. You're sorry, you got this. So and that's how it went and went through connections. You know, me being nice to people, knowing what you want, not knowing how you're going to get what you're gonna get to really knowing what you want and being nice and showing up?

Well, that's awesome to be able to share the opportunity with other people, you know, you have this chance to potentially do something and to say, like, hear these other people not knowing that it would come back to you. I mean, that I think speaks to your character, too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I know, you've spoken a lot about, you know, kind of representing, you know, people of brown and black who are openly gay in the community, like, what are you kind of seeing in the food world? Have there been shifts in the past couple months, years? Like, where do you think things are and what needs to be done?

Well, honestly, right now, we're still in a in a more male and Caucasian dominated field when it comes to the cooking industry, especially when it comes really just when it comes to showcasing the talent of black and brown chefs, and a lot LGBTQ, and let's just go with black and brown chefs, we have so many great talented chefs here in the DMV area, or even in New York City, and they don't get as much recognition as they should. They're not getting the write ups. You know what I mean for you know, the sold out lines and creating new dishes and things like that, because it may not be of a French background, you know, but they're still putting in the hard work. And it's still creating revenue and creating a brand from nothing. And I think to me, that still needs some to shine some light on that. You know what I mean? Right now, you know, we're in because of COVID, not because of COVID, but due to COVID. And due to the strong ratio in justice That we're looking at right now. And 2020. It's a big spotlight on being a black and brown business owner. You know what I mean? And then especially within the food industry now we know that, you know, we all hit in drowning waters, you know what I mean? But, you know, it is shining a light on us. So I think that now we are going to start seeing a pivot. And how much diversity comes on media, which I just thought announcement today, that chopped is now going to start introducing, you know, some black and brown shots on I mean, black and brown judges. Now, you know what I mean, for so many years, there's only you know, who were on the judges in a lot of shows, you know, the

Top Chef just made that announcement like, Yeah, well, so, yeah, you're seeing it in a couple of these shows.

So yeah, we're gonna start seeing that, that that change, and that shift, which is needed, because guess what, like I just said to you earlier, I was that young black kid watching Emeril Lagasse. Watching "BAM" happen. But that was the inspiration for me. But what happens when we change that face, and we change that person, we put a person of color there, and then maybe put a somebody in the LGBTQ community. And so now you're now saying to other chefs, who represent them who feel like there are other young chefs, I too, can be there, I too, can do that. That's really it is just about inspiring. The next generation or inspiring your peers is no one set color the food here though, that you know what I mean? Coke, food is a brightness is all different facets and things in it. So why can't the representation of the chef who's preparing these dishes be of that color as well?

Now, I believe there's like power in numbers, do you feel like there's a good community that supports you in DC in the chef community, not just like customers, but what's your thought on kind of like how tight knit the community is of people?

Well, definitely on some of the cafeterias, the pastry shops, or the cake bakers in the DMV area, beautiful we all get along, we see each other at a lot of different events, like I ran into a lot of at the chef for quality last year. And that was my first time doing that, you know, to me, so we all banded together and talk and it was really great to see that we all stay connected, we don't get to do as much. But we all do stay connected on what everybody is doing. And I'm always a big supporter, you know, what it means to regardless of who you are, what you got going on, if I believe in your brand, and I see you hustling and pushing yourself, I am always going to support you. And if that simple support means just reposting your flyer or a dish that you may because it looks that damn good, then that's all I'm gonna do. When it comes to some of the black chefs and stuff like that I don't really intertwine a lot with them. But I'm getting more into them. Now. To be honest with you, I'm starting to talk a lot more because I was building my brand. You know what I mean? Like I said, we just kind of walking in your day to day lives. But now I'm actually starting to network a lot more with other black and brown chefs in the area to create a tight knit community.

Yeah, it just seems like there's a lot of support. You know, I got involved with private chef week last year, which I thought was a great event. And I got to meet so many cool people, it was really different for me, because as a white man, I felt like I was the minority, like I'm going to all these events. I'm like, the only white guy there was like, Oh, this is interesting, but really cool. Because there are also so many small business owners. And what I've really found through my shutout restaurants network is, it seems like, you know, talking to these people, the path to growth within a structured restaurant organization is tough for a lot of especially African Americans or people from different countries. And it's almost easier to like start your own business, like they don't see the path to being able to move up the ladder internally. So it's like, well, I'll just go start my own personal chef or catering business. And a lot of people have had success with it from what I've seen.

Absolutely agreed. That was my story. I was working at crumbs store manager there, I had aspirations to be their product assurance guy, because they didn't bake on site. So they had every state or city had their own commissary that they would hire to make the product and ship it to them. So that I didn't want to be a district manager. And I said I wouldn't do my job because I said that could be a model that I can adapt to my business. That's what I was doing. I was learning everything from everybody else. So I was like, wow, I'm looking at Chrome. The next only next step for me was that because it felt right. And they would not give me that opportunity. So I wanted leaving my resignation letter drafted for a whole month. It took me it took some some pushing, but a lot of pressing that thing. And it's been the greatest thing ever. Seven years later. Look at Look, look where I'm at now. You know? Absolutely. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. Right. And it's a little hard to move up because obviously, a lot of people don't believe in our ability for us to be great. You know, I don't mean that we are worth anything. We're men. Oh no homework. Oh, yeah. You're a hard worker for African American. What is that supposed to mean? You don't I mean, like, stuff like that. So we always sometimes do find ourselves getting the shorter In the state where we didn't have to work two or three times harder, we've been doing f5 for all our lives. So it is easier sometimes to go out there and try to do your own thing. But that also holds us struggled in itself. There was many times I've been to several networking events. Last year was my year I called it the network, I was at every networking event dealing with me, I want it because I was building my team up because I knew something great was coming. And I wanted to build a team. I'm talking about lawyers and maybe brand strategists and they just everybody, anybody I needed to help me build and take this brand to the next level. And people will look at me and say, Oh, go work and do that. And all go through that. And okay, great. The product is great. But do you know this? And do you know that and I wasn't really the best savvy and business right? But I can have a product I know business, but I'm not as good on. So they will ask you some questions that I probably wouldn't know the answer to right then and there. And it will make me look like Oh, you don't know what you're doing? type situation.

So, you know, we have so many listeners to the show who are building and growing their businesses, what are the best kind of hires or alliances that you've started, like gotten together with for your business? Like, what do you think is a really important thing that people are maybe missing? If they want to build and grow their brand? Like, should it be a marketing person? Should it be an accountant? Like, what was super beneficial to you?

Oh, let me see so many different people walking out of my life, um, it helped me out, honestly, I would say, an assistant most of the time, is the beneficial person. And the reason why I say that I'm an assistant for me is because I had a lot of the internal things to like, make connections with people, you know what I mean? Like you said, Hey, you have a nice personality. So I knew I could gravitate towards people. So to me, it was kind of like getting that, that that connection that I made on getting that number of email, and then following up with that, on top of still building the business, and as well as everything else that I wanted to do. But for anybody else, I think it's really about finding something that you know, you're not strong at, and then putting a system or person in place to help you navigate and build that.

Do you worry that it loses the personalization, because that's kind of what I worry about, like I'm a one man show, and I still am and I do everything myself. And I feel like like the podcasts like people say, you should hire someone to edit the podcast, but it's like, I know what I want to keep in and edit out. And I don't want to just be like done recording this and hand it off to someone who then like, Oh, I don't like what Mr. Baig said, and I'll edit that out or, you know, like the the field of personalized email, like I like communicating to people and saying, like, here's the details for our event. Like, I don't know if I'm ready to like hand that off to someone. But I know I have to hire people. At some point. I'm not sure who I want to have come onto my team.

by me, let me tell you something that's going to take some time, I did everything. Okay, look it up. I'm doing my business before it was LLC. I'm out of the house for years. So I've been doing everything for years. And I literally said to myself, in order for me to grow in order, when you are ready to grow, that fireside Joe's burning saying, yo, it's time to take that next level, and you need to listen to yourself because it's not staring you in the wrong direction, hey, you need to get somebody else in here to start taking this load off of you. So that you can now open yourself up to more opportunities. Because if you burn yourself out on this end, you're not going to be able to see the opportunities that are being presented in front of you. Because you're too burnt out. You know what I mean? If you want to excel, we're gonna have to start bringing people in. And one thing that helped me out was creating a culture, you have a culture, you have a vibe, your podcast has been running or your brand has been running for X amount of time, it already has a culture and a flow to it. And when you bring somebody in, you need to bring somebody in that narrows that. And if they don't, you need to help sway them into that direction. And if they don't remove them, and you start getting people in place that will help you, you know me, I got an assistant. And that took a little time for us to get to the language I use on how I run business. And then I also told him, you know, but I also want you to come in and challenge me, because I also have been doing this for 10 plus years this way, and it may not be correct anymore, especially when I'm talking of the plans for the future. You know what I mean? So he or she may see something different, that you may see and you need to be open to that. That's really gross. You got to be open to other opinions to grow. And that's really the partnership or anybody you bring in should help.

Yeah, even today, you know, it was really hard. I got an email from a client for my personal chef business. And it was like bullet pointed, like he was really polite. I was like, on this date. I sent you an email on this date you got back to me on this date. Like you said, you'd have this menu to me. I still don't have it. I want to get the ball rolling and you know, I've read all your reviews and this kind of way of handling things. Doesn't seem to be in line with what I know about you, like, kind of where's my where's my thing, and you know, you have to kind of breathe. It's like, I've had like four events in five days. And, and, you know, family stuff. And I had an unexpected thing with the doctor and like, I've got this and it's just like, you want to say that, but you can't say that. And like, you just kind of have to like, eat it and say, okay, tonight, like, I have to get this done. In my mind, the timeframe wasn't that far out. You know, it's like an event months away, like most of my clients, like, I've got people who need menus for October and November in December, and like, this guy's got this thing in like, February, but he feels he should be front of the line. And it's like, that's the kind of thing where, like, man, I just need someone to kind of handle that, even though I don't say it's a priority. Clearly, to them. It's a priority. So we have to figure a way to like, get him to the front of the line. But that just means I have to shift a whole bunch of other stuff first.

Right? And you know what, honestly, what I've learned, I mean, because, you know, come on, you know, we've lined up the customers not always right, we know that we already know that. Right? Hey, oh, and I'm honest, you know, and that's another thing like I show transparency. I'm nice and respectful. But I'm honest, like, Hey, you know, we we Sorry about that, you know, he was apologizing is the more willing customer service, listen and apologize, right? Whatever, right? So I'd say that, but we are and tell them, like if you're watching, if you're reading the Yelp reviews, like he said, if you're watching my growth on social media, have you seen me on the show, you see me out in about, you just saw me, you knew I was out in about three days in a row, like I can, I'm gonna say that to you like, Oh, I'm so sorry. Unfortunately, we've been backed up doing X, Y, and Z. And we have a few more people ahead of you. But We sure will get to you at a time that works for you. And let me tell you something, we are not going to satisfy every client, you know, I mean, we need to get that out of our heads as well, there are going to be some people that their needs are going to be so astronomical, to what you can provide right now for them, that you're never going to please them, you know what I mean? And we just got to give them the honor shoot, like, Hey, this is where I'm at. And this is what I think I can do for you. And the time frame. If they want to respect you, and they want to work with you guess what they're going to do, they're going to wait, they're going to respect you. And if they don't, then you never were my client. We can't, I can't, I understand that I want the business and I want to continue growing and I want the connection. But hey, I can't bend over backwards, no more than I have, I don't have any more to give. You don't have any more to give. And you have to remember that. Because like I tell people, when I that's why I got an assistant, I got an assistant over COVID to be honest. And because people do with COVID, they became more, I don't wanna say nagging. But because of the stress of COVID it was a lot of pressure on me. And I was already dealing with COVID myself, you know, to me, not like dealing with having COVID. But dealing with the level of stress COVID or the level of ease COVID gave me so I'm dealing with that too. And they don't understand that. So you know, I will put that in there like, Hey, I'm having a rough day today. You know, COVID is really kicking my butt. Do you understand that? Yeah. And then let's say you have a business, you need to maintain that. Yes. And you're absolutely right. But this is where we have right now. Oh, I had to let go half of my staff like let's be realistic.

Yeah, yeah, I think most people are understanding it's still hard because, you know, I think essentially, I'm like a people pleaser, and you're in the hospitality business. Like you never want anyone to like, you never want to let anyone down. And I think it's like, when they come at you with that, especially thing like you're letting me down. Like, because that's what it was like saying is like, you don't want to hear that. And I think that's the real hard thing. Whereas if it was like, it was like an outright jerk, you'd be like, okay, whatever. But these like, Oh, you know, everything I've heard sounds like you're fantastic. And what's going on? Why aren't you fantastic? For me? It's like, Okay, I guess I'll just like stay up tonight and get that work done.

And no, and that's no, and that's where you say, Hey, I am still this fantastic being you are that still that person. But right now, I'm burnt out. I'm a little tired and what you are human. So you are able to feel you got to feel these things. And in order for you to be that fantastic person. I need to take a day off today right now I need to break I need to breathe to be this fantastic person. You understand? I'm saying like for me to actually start getting on TV shows. I had to really feel and feel good for myself. So when it radiated to people when I went to a show and pollution then production companies and the producer saw me they was like oh, it's radiating. I love him. Oh my god, he has a lot of energy is great. But I had to be in a certain place to exude that. And if I'm not in that great place. I'm never want to exude that. And you're going to always look at me like what happened to the bubbly Kareem that I'm used to know. Yeah, um,

you know, we all we all need a break and Kevin's taking its toll on everyone in so many ways and business has been great for me how's business for you been?

Oh, business has been good. You know Kobe we pivot in the beginning. But now we have partnerships we are located and two black owned establishments, one called kitchen crank cafe, which is in Atlanta, Maryland. And then there are others. H street location, we have banana pudding on their menu. And then we're partnership with the black owned ice cream shop off of georgia avenue, where we have all slice cakes are ranging from our award winning sweet potato all the way to carrot to chocolate on chocolate in the frozen case.

Congrats. That's awesome.

Thank you, thank you with more partnerships down the line on you already know, we got the Business Award of the Washington Business Journal award a pride award for 2020. So that put a lot more eyes on me. I'm especially eyes of a businessman in the DMV area, not just a chef in the DMV area, but now a businessman in the DMV area, you know what I mean? So that to me, was an elevation of just the brand itself, you know, because now we're not looking at you know, Mr. Big fleets as just a company, but we're looking at Mr. Big suites as a premier art studio kitchen space or bakery in the DMV area. To me, that's how I look at it.

And you just crossed 10,000 followers on Instagram, like last week or something right? Whoo. Now you can do this, swipe up, swipe up and they want the 10 Ks swipe up. Like how did that happen? Was there like a viral piece of content? Like was there a thing where you got like, a ton of people all at once? Or was it just like slow and steady? Because again, we talked to a lot of people about Instagram, especially on here. How did that happen with Instagram?

So first of all, first and foremost, we came with a goal, the goal was to reach 10 k by the end of the walk in 2019 saying, I want to reach in came out to 19 because I found out that's how you do the swipe up. Like I'm so glad you said that. So I'm not really big on like social media in terms of like, I'm always on a like, so it was just like, Oh, that's a great feature. Because, you know, it's a call to action when you have events like swipe up like you don't have to go to get out of a go. I just loved it loved it sounds like okay, that's a goal, because that's a great feature to attract more people to events or get them to sign up if we just wanted their emails. Oh, so boom, got that going. I was like, Okay, great. Yes. Got the swipe up. Um, so what happened was, a lot of different things happened over the year, you know, we have COVID we have the racial disparity, but most recently was my premiere on the beat Bobby Flay episode last week, Wednesday, once that bad boy got off of air. It was like everybody, all my friends and family was reposting me on TV. And I think that a lot of people just loved what they saw. Did you get to see so maybe you might speak from your personal experience of would you come and follow me? Who is this person and you don't want to follow the rest of my journey? Because honestly, that's really what it was being on the phone. I mean, being on the phone network beat Bobby Flay episode jumped me,

where were you? Number wise? Like, where were you before the episode? Do you have an idea of roughly

Yeah, I was close. I was close. I was 1960 I was closed because of the Washington Business Journal. And then because of a few publications that are an across the year, across to COVID really, really, um, really helped boost because I think I started the year out at, like, 18 something 18,000 I mean, 8000 8000 Yeah. 8000 I apologize for saying the wrong numbers. 8000 I was in like, 8000 or something like that when I started 2020. And then now we have 10. k?

Well, that's still good to be at 8000 at the beginning of the year, though, I mean, that shows like, consistent steady growth, you know, sometimes people come on, it's like, they get like, 5000 in like, a couple months because of some thing that happens. And I'm always intrigued at that. You know, it's like you have these people, like it's crazy. They get, you know, a Paris Hilton could like post a photo of a ham sandwich and she gets like 17,000 likes. It's like, Who's liking a photo of a ham sandwich? Like, what is that about? out here busting my hump trying to like create content and stuff. And I had like 52 people if I'm lucky, like that photo.

That is so rare that people follow like when I see people's lives, like especially during COVID I was like, What is this? These people are watching these people do nothing. They're not doing anything. If people trying to cook in the kitchen, there were people who had terrible cameras. I was like, okay, you people are just watching people do anything. Get these people really that intriguing. And you right? Like, I'm over here on the floor trying to get an angle taking my stuff outside to get some of that natural lighting. You don't I mean, buying backdrops or creating my own. Yeah, no, you go to all the days, and you can post a ham sandwich.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. The amount of stuff I have for photos like I go to Home Depot, and I'll be there with my wife looking for something like Ooh, look at this. It's like a remnant piece of floor that's on sale for $2 IKEA last week, they had like a bookshelf set that they were discontinuing and they were selling like the big shelves for $2 apiece, but it's huge. It's like I don't think Huge if I'm holding on my hands, but it was like $2 It's a great wood wood grain thing I'm like, this will be a great because it looks like a natural countertop, or like a wood cutting board. But I can take it outside, like put it on a table, and it's big enough that you won't see anything behind it. And I was super excited. She's like, why are you buying a shelf from a discontinued, you know, bookshelf that we don't have? I'm like, because it's $2 it's gonna be great for my food photography. You know, that's the kind of nerdy stuff I do.

Because that's so expensive.

Like there's the there's some I keep getting the Instagram ads for like that natural backdrop thing. It's like $79 for like a piece of like cardboard with you know, paper over it, that you put in like this holder thing and like I can go buy like remnant pieces of wood and tile for much less than that. Like, yes, no dollar things. It's ridiculous. But that's what we have to do these days is like, man, I can't I just get back in the kitchen. But, you know, again, it's big. So like the food entrepreneur things and like, nobody was expecting this when you get in the food business. I don't think people thought they're gonna have to become like, a media specialist as well. But it makes us more versatile. It's like I have a podcast. It's basically like having my own radio show in my basement. Like, How weird is that?

Absolutely, absolutely. It is everywhere living in this instant world. I mean, I think it's actually beautiful. Because we get to have conversations like this and not have to be in front of each other. We also get to connect and learn I learned a lot from crossties about how they're decorating, what's new, what's going on over there. So I love that connecting with certain people and becoming friends with them if I've never met them. But we're sharing traded secrets or things that we do in the kitchen to create you know, any artwork or P or masterpiece, or will you ordered something from so that I do like it I like that has been able to connect us and bridge gaps. And also now you get to now see different styles of decorations that are heavily in another country.

So where are you getting your inspiration from? Is it from scrolling Instagram? Are there chefs you'd like to follow? Like what inspired is

it? It is from Instagram a lot when especially when it comes to creating new content, like now I'm in this whole like, mixed media art medium where I just want freehand art I want to create I'm getting into like shavings and lights on a little bit of sculpting on you know, things like that. Like that's why I'm so I'm looking at a lot of people who are in Australia, a lot of people who are in like Europe, and they're doing they're doing things that will like jello is on top of the cake. But it's creating this beautiful art piece. It's so fantastic. We're using rice on rice paper to create seals on that can look like here and flowing ocean like it's just amazing. You know, I mean to seal this stuff. So it's good enough do a little tutorials on Instagram, I only have one set person that I'm following on per se. But I am inspired by a slew of people. It can even be somebody who just only do let's say treats or chef or photographer, you know, I mean, because of photographers catching different lights and lighting, so they're inspired, we want to create better photos. Because now we're many photographers, and also on just create different foods and techniques and play with stuff.

Do you have opportunities to do really creative stuff? Or is it that, you know, you have to kind of have the standard cakes and everything? Or can you ever do this wild thing? Like you saw something? And you're like, I'm inspired to make that like a cake with jello on it? Do you ever get to do that? And then sell it? Or is it just for fun?

I will always do it to try to sell it unless it's at like an event like I'm doing like a pop up event. And they're asking for like, dummy cakes or display cakes. So I would do it then. But honestly, I always try to do it on the client. And what I would do is, I might like I said, I'm honest. So I tell the client, normally they're my friend, or somebody I've dealt with in the past on several orders. And I would say hey, it's this new technique that I've been working on or that I want to try with you. Here's a picture of it, and it'll go great and what you're trying to do, would you be open for me to do that? And most people Honestly, I'm like, Yeah, like go for it. And then what I would have done is kind of, um, drop the price down, because it's the first time doing something. So she was a custom cake. I'm always like, well look, I'm not going to because I only know the hours it's going to take me so like I'm not going to charge you what I think this cost. I'm going to charge you this much. And then once I really get the handle on it, I can go now tell the PI whisper I always whispered in the ear. Don't tell nobody. You paid this much for this kick.

Yeah, that's a good plan.

Yeah, cuz it took me so many so long. I remember one cake that I'm never gonna post. I'm never gonna post this cake. As long as I'm the only one doing cakes right now. I'm never posting this because it took me five hours to do one tear.

Yeah, yeah, I can totally. I can't.

I was like, I'm never doing this again. So I'm posted. I know how to do it.

Yeah, I have a I have a friend who is a pastry chef and she actually helped me with the catering last night. And she made for me it was a treat. It's like a the Japanese like milk bread, and she had it stuffed with stuff. And it was really good. And I was like, Oh, can I get the recipe? She's like, you can? And I said, Can I make these mini because I want to put stuff in them. And she said, like, I'm gonna tell you, you're not gonna want to put these on your menu for like a big party. She's like, so like, before you get all fancy. She's like, I just want to tell you, like, if you're having a party for like, 15 people, you're not gonna want to be making these things as a little appetizer, like, you're gonna be better off, like buying some bread and doing crostinis. But you know, make them delicious?

Yeah, no, yeah, absolutely. Some and some things are those things like, you know, I tell people that oh, you know, I don't really do that, you know, you have to get you know, this amount, like a small amount, or, you know, a minimum amount if I'm going to do this to this special thing, because I know what it takes to create this thing.

So what makes you stand out? It seems like the market is flooded with people making cakes and cupcakes, and so many of them are like side hustlers. Do you worry about that? Or is it just like you stay in your lane and do your thing? And you don't worry about them? Like how do you? How do you stand out?

i? Well, first of all, first of all, one is in the space that I'm in right now I can't I can't tell you five or six years ago, I probably were matching myself up with a lot of people saying in my making, am I doing something better than them. I've been baking cakes, and selling cakes for people before we had Instagram. So to me, I've always been in my niche always been doing what I'm doing. I think the number one thing for me is consistency, consistency with the taste and the quality of the product that you're getting maybe a cake to a cookie. And then also customer service. You know what I mean? That's a big thing for me. I like I said, I worked in several bakeries in New York City. And I know one of the big things and it didn't have to do with any race. It was just like, customer service was a big thing. People wanted their stuff when they wanted it. People wanted to know information. So I made sure when I started this business and got the LLC that I was the customer as well as the business owner, and I always do these tests with myself, if I was the customer, what would they want from me. And I think that's what really sets me apart from a lot of people. And I'm personable, you know, on and I make sure that when I put my assistant and he or she they will he is he is personable. You know, I mean, he talks to you, he talks to you about your day about your event. And that's how I engage with some clients as well. So it worked perfectly. And I think that's what's really different between me and a lot of people because I do I don't make anything fancy. You know what I mean? I make your favorite comfort food. I'm talking banana pudding, slice layer cakes, like that's nothing different than the next person can make. I just think that the quality of the product is good. I bake from scratch on I don't know if that's to do with it. But I love that I bake from scratch. I talk about baking from scratch, and talk about passionate I am and I think people connect and radiate with that. More than anything.

So one desert, if you could have just one desert, what would it be?

You know, I just told you I love sweets. Can you tell me one dessert? Yeah. And I'm gonna be hard at it. Because I'm a Libra. We are so indecisive. So we can never pick a or b you know, but all one dessert. It's just going to be I'm just going to say this is going to be a layer cake. I can't tell you which one because I'm a seasonal person. So right now I'm all about spices apples, pumpkin, sweet potato. You know what I mean? And then when we get to spring, summer, all about citrates light, airy custards, things like that. Okay, fair enough. I'll go with that. All right, thank you. But I love a slice cake though. I love this like cake. So you can always win me over with a slice cake.

It's so funny. I have to say last night I catered one of these micro weddings and they had a wedding cake and I don't know where they got it from. But it was like it was look like there was just like a crumb coat on the outside with not a lot of frosting. And I think the groom said 25 times to his now wife, Man, I wish you had gotten a cake that had some frosting on it and I thought she was gonna kill him. But like all night, he kept looking at this cake that like barely had a layer and I hope I'm not calling out anyone who I know. But I don't know who it was, but it's just funny. He talked so many times. Like why did you get a wedding cake that has no frosting like you can see the bare cake through the outside. And I just kept looking at my assistant who's a pastry chef and I'm like, Oh my God, he's not gonna let this cake thing go like you should have made their wedding cake to.

Well, you know that stylist called Nikki cake that was really popular. Probably like, what, four years ago, three years ago, um, is a huge popular thing. Especially a lot of brides who are doing like outdoor weddings or like barn themed weddings that really work perfectly because that rustic of the exposed kid coming through that Bailey shallow, thin layer buttercream is really really poppin I'm actually doing one of those cakes the next weekend for a wedding and A lot of people also get it because they don't like frosting. You know, so they're like, Oh, I don't want any frosting on my cake. So give me a necchi cake. Wow.

Yeah, I haven't seen many of those lately. Like, I love a good buttercream on there, like, cover that cake up. I want some frosting on there.

Absolutely, absolutely. That's the same thing for me.

So I always like to ask my guess kind of as a final question, what are some of your favorite resources, especially for business owners? Like, what's a game changer? It could be a cookbook, a website, a YouTube channel an app like what's something that's beneficial that someone who's you know, whether it be sweets or savory something that you think would be beneficial for their business?

I'm actually tell you on a bunch of self help books, to be honest, I'm to book I read by Lisa Nichols called no matter what I started that read that book back in 208. And it was a game changer for my mentality of how I moved through life. And then how I was moving to my business, I realized that and honestly, what helped me get on TV shows, I realized that it was the person that I needed to be on in order to be successful in order to be full enough to give to anybody else, if it was still my passion, or purpose, just saying hello. So I definitely think that if I have any tool to anybody, I would say work on yourself. Work on being happy, work on loving yourself more, because that's what's really going to radiate. Do your work and do your passion, whatever it may be.

Yeah, I love it. I'm big fan. I, that's what I tell people all the time, we've, when I talked about recommended reading, like I read a lot of stoic philosophy, I read a lot of things, you know, that kind of keep you balanced and centered, because I think if you're uptight, and just not happy with who you are, that's going to show in everything in your personal life, your business and all that. So I hundred percent agree, I don't know of that book. So I'm gonna have to check that out.

Yeah, it's a powerful book, it was it was the first book help self help book that I read that she shared her story. And she gave you tools within each chapter about how to adapt because she called them developing muscles on so each muscle she at the end of the chapter, she would give you tools that you can then go home and use to start strengthening or developing that set muscle, whatever it may be, to strengthen you as a whole being or to get you on the path of you know, to be a whole being of just be grounded in yourself and love yourself. You we hold on a lot of stuff, you know what I mean? And that's what really opened a lot of opportunities that people are still listening about how to get on TV, that's what opened up a lot of opportunities for me to get on TV was to be a great student of myself. And it radiated and poured out to people, you know, and they just gravitate towards it. Oh my God, you're so authentic. You're so beautiful. You're so this and I'm like, I'm just being me. I'm happy with who I am.

Hmm, that sounds fantastic. I'm gonna go check it out. I'm a big reader, I always have at least probably three books going, I'm always doing something on audio, reading something in the morning reading something at night. It's a mix of fiction, nonfiction, I really got into nonfiction, I can't even really think of the last fiction book I've read. Like, it's always in the self help space, or the business space, or just like weird stuff. Like I'm reading a lot of like science and technology kind of stuff, like futuristic kind of things. But I think that can also help with the future. Like when you think about right now, like pivoting and all this stuff. It's like, you know, what is AI going to do to our businesses, what's going to happen with automation, and all that, and I don't think people realize where we're at with things I just read a book called The future is faster than you think. And you know, all these people like robots can't replace me. It's like, they're already doing that in some places, like you better check out what robots can do you know, and then figure out how to harness that power. So you're not obsolete yourself.

Absolutely. I'm gonna pick up that book. So that sounds amazing.

Yeah. Yeah, Peter Diamandis, co authored it with, again, thank you, the other guy, Steven Kotler, and they have three books, one is bold, and one is called abundance. But the ideas of one of them is like making the world a better place through technology. So it talks about, like, you know, building these water filtration systems that you can take to like places in Africa and like, drop it in like the dirtiest water and it'll filter clean water. And then what happens? What happens when these women aren't spending 14 hours a day walking, just to get water, you know, like a basic need. But there's also opportunities from a monetary basis that like, there's money to be made in helping people in the world. And then what happens when like all these people now don't have to do these mundane tasks. And now that they have the internet, when all these people are going to come on the internet, they keep talking about how many more people every year are going to have internet access that didn't you're gonna have all these smart people on the grid who never had a voice that nobody knew of. But now you might have this guy in Egypt, who's a brilliant, you know, microbiologist who no one ever knew about, but now he's got a 5g network, and he's gonna, you know, cure COVID like, there's just so many interesting things out there. So, yeah, I love reading books like that.

Okay,

okay, I'll get you hooked up. Like, this guy has a great daily email list where he says it's only positive things and it's all about like the future. And technology and I just love getting that thing where every day it's not this thing like the world is on fire. It's like no, the world is actually a really good place. And here's like some of the cool stuff that's happening. And it's not like,

Oh, good Give me that. All I do all positive thing. Yeah, nobody else can see me here but like, my vision board is behind me because we're in my room. Like I'm all about, you know, continuously keeping that light and burning the fire in me. So please, please do send me that.

Thanks so much for coming on the show. I hope you had a good time.

I did. I did had a great. I had a great talk. Thanks for having me. And yeah, hope to be back.

Yeah, definitely. To all our listeners, this has been the Chefs Without Restaurants podcast. As always, you can find us at chefswithoutrestaurants.com and .org, and on all social media platforms. Thanks so much, and have a great week.

Peace.