Episode 261: Podhemian Grove

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Podcasting 2.0 for May 29th, 2026, episode 261, Podhemian Grove.

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Well, we are back. Just one week off. Hello, everybody.

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Welcome to Podcasting 2.0. This is where it all goes

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down. The boardroom, the board meeting where we talk about

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all things podcasting, everything that's We are in fact the

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only boardroom that actually knows what a podcast is. I'm

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Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill

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Country and in Alabama, the man who checks all his

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package managers daily. Say hello to my friend on the

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other end, the one, the only Podsage Dave! Maybe not

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all of them. No, you should be checking every single

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one. Every single one! I don't see the pot, the

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live. I don't see the live bot. Well, I pinged

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the pod. Hmm. Podcasts live at podcastindex.social. Oh, we are

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not. No. Hold on a second. It shows nothing. Let

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me see what's going on here. Let me see. Let

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me see. Okay, here we are. Debugging the show already.

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Let me check. That's half of our show. We're live.

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I have a good. I'm pretty sure I have. You

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know what? Is it bad if I regenerate the GUID

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even if I've already done a new one? For the

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live Adam? Yeah. No, go ahead. Okay, did it again.

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Okay, save, publish. Publish. sending to server successfully, and then

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I'll just... Uh... I'll just hit this again. 22. Oops,

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hold on. Eleven. Going live. Sam Sethi says we are

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live. All right. Well, if Sam says it, then we

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are live. I mean, we're. streaming hello boardroom i agree

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with that because sam's products have the most stringent rss

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feed requirements in the in the universe so you can't

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you cannot sneak anything past Even legitimate stuff sometimes you

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can't sneak past. Although there was something with the payment

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metadata that was... off. payment metadata? Yeah, there was... Oh,

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I need to fire up my... For true fans, you

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mean? Yeah, there was something. And I've been seeing it,

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too. It was like something was... You know, you'd have

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to resolve the metadata in Helipad. Yeah, who knows? Is

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someone sending invalid data? I don't know. It's amazing, any

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of this stuff. works at all, to be honest about

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it. Hold on, let me see. Where's my, where my

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helipad at? Where my helipad, helipad, helipad? That bears repeating,

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honestly. What? It's amazing that any of this stuff works

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at all? Yeah. It's the God honest truth, man. I'm

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always amazed. I'm like... Yeah. Yeah. But people get so.

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I'm mad. jaded. It doesn't work me! Well... A lot

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of things don't work. Yes, no kidding. My first and

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second marriage being great examples of that. I was restricting

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my comments to just the technology sphere. I'm sorry. But

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I mean, that's all, you know, feel free. All right.

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Feel free. The helipad is up and rolling, so that

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looks good. Okay. Captain Sweatpants says that tiles.podping.org shows that.

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The pod pings are going through. There must be something

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wrong with Spurlock's bot. Well, the live bot, the lit

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bot in the... in the boardroom has registered us as

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live, so that should be good. Spurbot. Spurbot is broken.

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Spurbot. The spur bot. Is that an actual name? The

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spur bot? It is now. How you been, brother? Sorry

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about last Friday. No, it's fine. Where'd y'all go? Nashville?

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Yeah, for the, uh... for the big K-Love Awards fan

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weekend. Yeah, which people, a lot of people... will not

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know what that is and I'm not entirely clear what

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that is. So K-Love is a ministry they bought up

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pretty much every single Christian contemporary music radio station in

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the country and simulcast one signal now to all of

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them. That sounds like a thing that happens a lot

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and is never good for anybody. Yeah, well, exactly. It's

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removed all local radio, which is, you know, why there's,

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for some reason, I have a feeling that someone's trying

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to do something about that. What is that company called?

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um I know what you're talking about. So they're in

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Nashville where all the writers are, the musicians, most of

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them, that is. And so, you know, they're all kind

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of beholden to K-Love. So K-Love has a concert Friday

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night in the Gaylord Hotel at the Biodome, which is

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pretty cool because the big ballroom holds probably two and

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a half. 3,000 people. And the sound is good and

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they got screens. And my favorite, the words are on

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the screen so you can sing along. Have a bouncing

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ball. No. It should though, that's kind of funny. And

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then they have writers round. round tables, you know, the

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writers talk about the song and the story behind it,

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which is unfortunately a lot of, actually I talked about

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this with Pastor Jimmy on We Get to Do This

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on today's show. A lot of it's like, well, you

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know, my sister died, I got cancer, I backed up

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over my dog, you know, it's like. Eh eh. In

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fact, the whole weekend was ashes to beauty. I'm like,

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ugh. Where's the joy in the Lord when things are

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going great? Yeah, it was a little depressing. Well, that's

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very 2026, honestly. Yeah, totally straight up. And then Sunday

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they had Levi. Lusko, who's a... He was from Los

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Angeles. He was in the music entertainment business. He became

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a pastor in Montana, of all places. He's got a

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pretty big church there. And he's a young guy, you

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know, great, great sermon. And, you know, then, of course,

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Elevation Worship. And then Sunday night is the big... like

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a proper award show from the Grand Old Opry. It

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airs tonight on TBN. And if you are into the

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Kalshi and Polymarket, CeCe Winans will be the Artist of

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the Year, so you can go and bet on that

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right now. Polymarket, are you... Former Google employee? No, I

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was at the show, so I know who won. So

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you can go bet on it. I guarantee you she'll

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win. I'm not actually supposed to say that. We're all

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sworn to secrecy. Yeah, but there's no NDA, so you're

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good. Correct. Correct. So, yeah, so actually it was really

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nice, but I just completely spaced. I'm like, oh, man,

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we're supposed to do the show. And it was crazy.

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We were so busy, but my robot has been working

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so well on my show prep. And with that, I

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say. so well because Here's my observation all things AI.

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I'm sure you have this. It doesn't matter if you're

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doing code, show prep, editing clips, whatever you're using your

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robot for. There is. very little Consistency? Reproducibility and iteration.

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So if you, if I had an intern. And I

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said, intern, look at this list and make clips of

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every single URL. The intern, once they figured out how

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to do it, they would do it. And they'd just

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be making clips. Yeah. 40% of the time. The robot

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will go, well... You know, I didn't think you needed

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a clip of that because you talked about that three

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shows ago. And so I just skipped it. And, you

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know, yeah, I know I have knitter to get the

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X videos, but it wasn't up. So I decided to

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just let it go. So that's the consistency part. Reproducibility.

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This is my favorite. Everybody can do this. Go to

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your favorite robot and type in, show me a house

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with a chimney and a cat in the window and

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a dog in the yard. And then get the picture

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and then do the exact same prompt and see that

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it's a completely different picture. Yeah, on a fresh session.

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On a fresh session. Iterating is my favorite. And you

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can do this with images. I do it with clips

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like, hey, could you just take that last word off?

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And then it does something completely different. Hey, I love

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this picture. Could you just make your hair blue? Sure.

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It'll make the hair blue and the sky a different

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color and the grass will be gone. It'll be cement.

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Yes. So the intelligence part of AI is non-existent. So

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it is a great tool. You just have to be

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on top of it all the time. I literally... I

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have this great little bit for credits. So while no

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agenda, end of show, mix is running, I say go

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into the spreadsheet and... Actually, we created a code word,

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credits, all uppercase. It should know what to do because

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it has its memory MD files, knows exactly what to

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do. And then yesterday, it just puts one person exec,

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all the rest of the associate exec with the numbers

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they donated and their titles and their jingle requests. Like,

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what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Oh,

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yeah, you're right. No, I have a memory file about

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this. It won't happen again. Let me take a note

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of that so it won't happen again. Well, this is

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bull crap. It'll happen again and again and again. So

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this is going to create. So I am more productive.

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This is completely true. I am more productive. I do

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spend a lot of my time correcting it, but I'm

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a lot more productive. I can live more and show

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prep less. Um... It's not going to replace any, it's

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not even going to replace an intern. An intern would

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be better at this point and cheaper because interns should,

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you know, I would pay $200 a month for an

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intern to do all the work. I can't find one.

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So it's only going to create more jobs and everything

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is vastly overvalued. There you go. That is your report

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from Boots on the Ground from Adam Curry. So... I

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wish I could give you... Let me ask you a

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question. Do you see these same issues when using robots

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for coding? Oh, well, so yes and no. The For

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to back you up, though. first of all. um In

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the financial world. you The futurologists and the permanent conference

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speaker class, they're still infatuated with AI. And they're making

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tons of money talking about it. Yes. Travelling around to

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conferences saying how AI is... future and it's going to

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replace everybody's job. But on boots on the ground within

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the financial world, that is the reality is beginning to

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set in. And it is that you give. is the

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thing that you most need help with. Like. This is

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a... 150 page document that I need to get some

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information out of but I don't want to have to

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read the whole thing in order to find these bits

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of information. You can't, there is absolutely no. um way

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to end on the output. of what it tells you.

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Right. If you say, if you say, um, you know,

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if you ask some questions about what's in this document.

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You don't know whether it gave you the right answer,

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but if you go and check... You can be assured

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that at least 50% of the time... It is wrong.

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It's the wrong answer. It is wrong. And I have

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documented examples of this from... from people. Because what's happening

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is you've, I think the people who are actually building

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things with inference. What people have realized is the inference

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itself... is not enough. I like how you say inference

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where I say inference. Is it inference? Well, I think

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I say that because you say that I have to

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infer, you know, that somebody inferred something. It makes you

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sound very smart. I'm going to try it. Inference. Well,

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in that way, it reflects reality. I'm also wearing little

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round glasses. Oh, like Ben Franklin glasses? Cool. No, I'm

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not. you have to the reality has set in that

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you have to build guardrail systems around these things. And

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what you really have to do is you have to

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build software. that does the thing you want it to

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do. And then you bring in little bits of inference

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at certain aspects of the pipeline. Right. Right. To do

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things. If you just give a chat. bot or or

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an or an agent if you just give it something

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and let it run you're going to get wildly different

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and hallucinated results. Yeah. Yeah. All the time. All the

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time. So I, the main. The main tool I use

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is Whisper. And I use it on together.ai so I

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can... whisper. a Rogan podcast and pull something out very

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quick. I mean, it's amazing because, you know, you're... pumping

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up a huge GPU and it just goes so fast.

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And... And so I use this for clips and I'll

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say, all right, go listen to this. five-hour Senate session.

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find things that are in that are you know on

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my list of things of interest and then pull clips

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And. And it would... It would do this with varying

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variable success. And then I had this brilliant idea, and

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this kind of folds in what you're saying. I said,

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do you test your work? No. So, well, when you

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do code. Don't you do a test if the code

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works? Yes, it's called a unit test. Oh, all right.

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So whenever you pull a clip, do a unit test

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to make sure that you don't have a dangling word

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at the end, a little blip of audio. And that

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really improved it by 100%. by telling it to treat

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what I'm doing as code. And it got us. Yeah.

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Yeah, that's the only way that any of this works.

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Yeah. So like things like It's that classic example of...

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Why? how An agent like Claude Code can tell you...

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can build an entire like html page but it with

233
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javascript things running in it, but it can't tell you

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how many letters there are in the, how many letter

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R's are in the word strawberry. Because there's like, It

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doesn't understand a way. I'm trying to be very careful

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of my language. It has no mechanism in the harness.

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to test those sorts of things. Right, right, right, right,

239
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right. The only way that... You have to tell us

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to do a dictionary lookup. to test it. Well, what?

241
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No, that will actually because because anything that has if

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you're asking a question. that the agent doesn't already know

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a pattern of language for. then there's no way that

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you'll ever get out of the model that thing that

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you want. So what you have to, the only way

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it can work. and get it right every single time,

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is if you ask how many letter R's are in

248
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the word strawberry, if it builds a Python script, and

249
00:16:34,569 --> 00:16:38,726
actually runs code to check. the presence of the number

250
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of the letter R. That's the only way it works.

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And it's not doing that all the time because it's

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too costly. You can't. I got no time to build

253
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a Python script. I'm just going to tell you. That's

254
00:16:52,781 --> 00:16:57,072
why it's terrible at math. Yeah. Because every time you

255
00:16:57,153 --> 00:16:59,519
ask it a math question, it would have to go.

256
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and create a piece of code that runs the math

257
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to tell you the answer to the math because it

258
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there's no can't do it it can't it can't do

259
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it so it can't do it i know you brought

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clips and i and i want to bring you back

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to them so that we're not just all about the

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this week in ai you We're going to, I'm going

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to ask you a question that I'm going to ask

264
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the book of knowledge. The same question. And that question

265
00:17:29,587 --> 00:17:33,910
is very, it's a hot topic today, hot topic. Because

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there's an entire industry, the entire podcast industry I'm reading.

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No one asked you, no one asked me, no one

268
00:17:41,267 --> 00:17:48,967
even asked James Cridland. What is a podcast? You're asking,

269
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this is a question that's being posed to me. I'm

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00:17:52,008 --> 00:17:59,219
asking you, what is a podcast? um To me, a

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podcast is... Media distributed. over some sort of open protocol.

272
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Ooh, you took the some sort of path. That's interesting.

273
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I don't want to restrict it to just our sense.

274
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I like that. I like it. Shall we ask the

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book of knowledge? Oh, Lord, yes. Book of Knowledge. What

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00:18:23,561 --> 00:18:33,673
is a podcast? According to the Book of Knowledge, a

277
00:18:34,094 --> 00:18:37,408
podcast is a digital audio program made available on the

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00:18:37,529 --> 00:18:42,004
internet for downloading or streaming. typically released in episodes and

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00:18:42,065 --> 00:18:46,778
often focusing on specific topics or themes. Modern podcasts can

280
00:18:46,818 --> 00:18:51,250
be accessed through various platforms and applications, allowing listeners to

281
00:18:51,310 --> 00:18:57,391
subscribe and receive new episodes automatically. Thus, It has been

282
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written. did not bring in the open protocol part. To

283
00:19:03,871 --> 00:19:07,259
me, that's what the... The reason it has to be

284
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some sort of open protocol. RSS or I would even

285
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say if even if it's just on a website that

286
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you can watch for free or distribute for free. I

287
00:19:17,714 --> 00:19:20,291
just feel like... I feel like the most critical part

288
00:19:20,351 --> 00:19:24,563
is the distribution. I'm with you on the distribution. But

289
00:19:24,603 --> 00:19:28,555
I'm sure you also saw the big news. Big news.

290
00:19:29,871 --> 00:19:34,953
about YouTube and Spotify and... Who else is in this

291
00:19:35,036 --> 00:19:41,672
group? You talking about amp? Amp, yes, amp. The Alliance

292
00:19:41,752 --> 00:19:44,893
for Measurement in Podcasting. Let's see who was in this.

293
00:19:45,034 --> 00:19:49,540
Oxford Road started this up. Your buddy, Dan. Yeah, I

294
00:19:49,601 --> 00:19:58,919
like Dan. Spotify. Better help. *laughs* DraftKings. Okay. Shocker. Shocker.

295
00:19:58,899 --> 00:20:00,744
tell you guys what a gambling app is if you

296
00:20:00,785 --> 00:20:04,636
can tell them what a podcast United Talent Agency Flight

297
00:20:04,736 --> 00:20:13,803
Story Libsyn Sirius XM and Podscribe Yeah, it's... Yeah, it's...

298
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My favorite part of this whole thing was... You. They,

299
00:20:20,149 --> 00:20:26,674
quote, emerged from secret. That's how podcasting was built, baby.

300
00:20:26,915 --> 00:20:32,505
In secret. Anytime somebody emerges from secret in the world

301
00:20:32,545 --> 00:20:37,074
of podcasting, you can go jump off a cliff. I'm

302
00:20:37,094 --> 00:20:39,819
not interested in anything you have to say. Rob Greenlee.

303
00:20:40,115 --> 00:20:43,870
is uh is delighting in all this in the in

304
00:20:43,910 --> 00:20:49,855
the secret uh whatsapp group he posts The term podcast

305
00:20:49,997 --> 00:20:53,353
is really now defined by the audience now. That is

306
00:20:53,433 --> 00:20:58,194
a challenging reality. Whatever meaning we as an industry apply

307
00:20:58,254 --> 00:21:01,517
to the term podcast. will just be for the business

308
00:21:01,558 --> 00:21:04,554
side of things now. I think the hard truth is

309
00:21:04,574 --> 00:21:09,637
that consumption platforms and the users of those platforms now

310
00:21:09,777 --> 00:21:14,720
control the meaning of podcasts. The terms creator economy and

311
00:21:14,801 --> 00:21:17,591
new media are becoming the top of the funnel now.

312
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Podcasts or podcasting are... part of those terms. We have

313
00:21:21,941 --> 00:21:24,714
hard choices to make here. We are now victims of

314
00:21:24,815 --> 00:21:28,420
our success. I also wonder why the IAB is not

315
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,189
involved in this group. Well, I'll tell you because this

316
00:21:31,249 --> 00:21:34,716
is not about podcasting. This is about advertising money. And

317
00:21:34,756 --> 00:21:40,568
they say so. And that's the thing that... I love

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00:21:40,629 --> 00:21:45,616
Rob, but he misses this point every single time. is

319
00:21:46,579 --> 00:21:50,251
I remember just Todd going round and round with him

320
00:21:50,331 --> 00:21:53,682
on the new media show about this. I miss Todd

321
00:21:53,762 --> 00:21:55,909
in this moment. Todd, it would have been so great

322
00:21:55,929 --> 00:21:59,715
to have you here. I'm going to kill you. I

323
00:21:59,735 --> 00:22:05,804
miss him. I miss him. It just is. He just

324
00:22:05,904 --> 00:22:08,974
misses, he forgets, and many people do this. It's not

325
00:22:09,015 --> 00:22:11,704
just Rob. Many people do this in the podcasting world.

326
00:22:12,145 --> 00:22:17,115
They forget that like 90% of podcasts... Don't make a

327
00:22:17,256 --> 00:22:23,975
dime off advertising. Yes. They just do it. for either

328
00:22:24,095 --> 00:22:27,490
just purely the fun of it, just for marketing, or

329
00:22:28,173 --> 00:22:31,910
just for donations and buy me a coffee and stuff.

330
00:22:32,090 --> 00:22:38,001
Send me some pickles. Yeah. Advertising is actually... Pain in

331
00:22:38,021 --> 00:22:41,369
the butt. You know what I mean? Like, you have

332
00:22:41,410 --> 00:22:44,384
to bill, you have to handle all the stuff, you

333
00:22:44,404 --> 00:22:46,735
gotta bill it out, you gotta wait months to get

334
00:22:46,796 --> 00:22:50,702
paid. It's a thing that a lot of people just

335
00:22:50,824 --> 00:22:56,430
don't. Unless you're making significant revenue, it's really not worth

336
00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:59,420
even trying. And it's so much easier to do pay.

337
00:22:59,399 --> 00:23:06,133
Patreon or... Um... boosts or anything like that. It's just

338
00:23:06,153 --> 00:23:10,787
got to be PayPal donations or anything because the advertising

339
00:23:10,827 --> 00:23:13,033
route is such a pain. And then you have these

340
00:23:13,093 --> 00:23:17,727
guys coming out of the woodworks, out of the secret.

341
00:23:18,147 --> 00:23:23,308
Out of the secret. Yeah. And then it's like, oh,

342
00:23:23,388 --> 00:23:25,733
we're going to tell you how all you need to

343
00:23:25,813 --> 00:23:29,863
change podcasting in order to make all this stuff better.

344
00:23:30,324 --> 00:23:32,208
I don't even think they're doing that. I think they're

345
00:23:32,248 --> 00:23:36,238
just trying to say, hey. We're podcasts and we want

346
00:23:36,278 --> 00:23:39,619
some of that podcast budget. That's all this is about.

347
00:23:39,819 --> 00:23:45,054
Yeah. And perhaps it's even worse. I think it's even

348
00:23:45,114 --> 00:23:48,819
worse. We're a podcast, but we belong in your new

349
00:23:48,879 --> 00:23:52,713
media budget. I think that's really what it, because the

350
00:23:52,773 --> 00:23:57,315
real money, the podcasting money is good, but apparently billions

351
00:23:57,375 --> 00:24:02,906
and billions. But the true new media, Google, etc. money,

352
00:24:03,168 --> 00:24:07,538
YouTube money, is much, much bigger. So I believe I

353
00:24:08,142 --> 00:24:11,120
should probably ask Dan Granger about it. I like Dan

354
00:24:11,181 --> 00:24:13,943
and we have. We should have Dan on the show.

355
00:24:14,287 --> 00:24:17,914
You know, that's a good idea. He always wants me

356
00:24:17,934 --> 00:24:20,320
to come into like, hey, I'm at South. I couldn't

357
00:24:20,401 --> 00:24:23,006
actually do it, but I probably didn't want to do

358
00:24:23,026 --> 00:24:25,491
it anyway. Like, I'm at South by Southwest. We're going

359
00:24:25,511 --> 00:24:27,334
to have a panel about what is a podcast. I'm

360
00:24:27,374 --> 00:24:29,879
like, oh, man, I'm sorry. I got something else to

361
00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:33,306
do, which I really did. I got to wash my

362
00:24:33,386 --> 00:24:37,715
hair. I got to go poke my eye out. But

363
00:24:37,755 --> 00:24:41,646
that's truly the issue here is that. The podcast people

364
00:24:41,686 --> 00:24:48,780
want more money. from other new media budgets. But... They

365
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,631
know, and this is why IAB was not invited, they

366
00:24:51,712 --> 00:24:57,009
know that they really don't have a good metric. for

367
00:24:57,050 --> 00:25:02,405
measuring success. And so I think it's twofold. It's one,

368
00:25:02,506 --> 00:25:04,297
how do we come up with a standard way of

369
00:25:04,337 --> 00:25:10,501
measuring? a podcast and you know by not inviting any

370
00:25:10,583 --> 00:25:15,955
other podcast app. to the table, you're showing your cards.

371
00:25:16,439 --> 00:25:19,212
Yeah, Paul said that this morning. He was like, he

372
00:25:19,232 --> 00:25:21,527
was like the fact. that on this secret group there's

373
00:25:21,667 --> 00:25:25,343
only one the only podcast app that's listed is spotify

374
00:25:25,384 --> 00:25:28,793
that tells you everything you need to know yeah They're

375
00:25:28,853 --> 00:25:31,808
not interested in any traditional podcast app. I mean, even

376
00:25:32,189 --> 00:25:34,762
just to make it look better, throw Pocket Castle in

377
00:25:34,782 --> 00:25:38,711
there. Somebody. But no. Yeah. I'm trying to... Did they

378
00:25:38,792 --> 00:25:40,946
actually say we... came out of secret is that what

379
00:25:40,966 --> 00:25:44,362
they said that's what james said i'm looking maybe him

380
00:25:44,402 --> 00:25:48,159
being snarky but uh that's i'm looking at this article

381
00:25:48,547 --> 00:25:59,850
He says, uh... um Let's see. Conveined amp assembling a

382
00:25:59,971 --> 00:26:05,361
brain trust of 12 voting members. Voting member parties. to

383
00:26:05,421 --> 00:26:07,980
address an urgent need for radical change. Here it is.

384
00:26:08,121 --> 00:26:12,337
Brought together by Oxford Road, the group. The group, including

385
00:26:12,417 --> 00:26:16,290
voting members from Spotify, United Talent Agency, SiriusXM, DraftKings, Lipson,

386
00:26:16,330 --> 00:26:19,019
and others, have been working in secret since last summer.

387
00:26:19,123 --> 00:26:26,638
Driven by what it calls industry-wide confusion. Both, and this

388
00:26:26,698 --> 00:26:31,435
is their industry-wide confusion. Both a lack of standardized metrics

389
00:26:31,576 --> 00:26:36,783
and disagreement about where podcasts end and social videos begin.

390
00:26:37,235 --> 00:26:41,439
Yeah. This is not. If anybody thinks that what is

391
00:26:41,459 --> 00:26:44,049
going to come out of this... Is some new way

392
00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:51,071
to actually measure podcast Impressions better? That's not what this

393
00:26:51,211 --> 00:26:53,500
is because there is no way to do that. It

394
00:26:53,580 --> 00:26:57,193
is impossible. This is great. The Amp Accords website. It's

395
00:26:57,213 --> 00:27:02,303
like the Abraham Accords. for dumb videos. Amphicords. Was it

396
00:27:02,383 --> 00:27:07,046
signed at Camp David? A billion dollars of demand is

397
00:27:07,107 --> 00:27:11,219
sitting on the sidelines. It's about the money. Which is

398
00:27:11,299 --> 00:27:16,254
why leading platforms, advertisers, publishers, and creators have come together

399
00:27:16,314 --> 00:27:20,631
to create the first podcast. Podcasting Measurement Framework. There it

400
00:27:20,712 --> 00:27:23,506
is. Yeah, and it's going to start, I can already

401
00:27:23,526 --> 00:27:26,893
tell you, it's going to start with... first party data.

402
00:27:27,138 --> 00:27:29,683
Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's going to start with. It's

403
00:27:29,703 --> 00:27:31,209
going to say everybody's going to have to have a

404
00:27:31,249 --> 00:27:34,021
login and we're going to, you know, blah, blah, blah.

405
00:27:34,041 --> 00:27:37,154
Well, here it is. The AMP Accords. The AMP Accords.

406
00:27:37,174 --> 00:27:40,789
Is Trump a part of this? the ampicord. Three goals.

407
00:27:41,470 --> 00:27:45,276
The Amp Accords target the measurement gaps holding podcasting back

408
00:27:45,356 --> 00:27:50,324
across open RSS, closed platforms, buying, selling, and attribution. Number

409
00:27:50,344 --> 00:27:54,551
one, standardize impression metrics, defining the units that all major

410
00:27:54,591 --> 00:28:00,272
platforms can map to, major platforms. to develop cross-platform performance

411
00:28:00,434 --> 00:28:06,117
measurement. Buzzword! create an inconsistent attribution method acceptable to open

412
00:28:06,297 --> 00:28:09,290
RSS and closed systems. Oh, they're throwing us a bone.

413
00:28:09,752 --> 00:28:15,445
Three, define podcast. agreeing on a universal classification for industry

414
00:28:15,545 --> 00:28:24,009
sizing, buying, selling, and measurement. So the developer cross-platform creating

415
00:28:24,029 --> 00:28:29,768
a consistent attribution method acceptable to open RSS and closed

416
00:28:29,829 --> 00:28:35,182
platforms Can't do it. No, it's... It's not possible. It's

417
00:28:35,242 --> 00:28:39,935
inherent. Thank you. Follow the amp chords. As they go

418
00:28:40,037 --> 00:28:44,058
public. Ooh, they've gone public. Yeah, let's get Dan on

419
00:28:44,119 --> 00:28:48,588
the show. Yeah, we do, because this feels like... This

420
00:28:48,649 --> 00:28:51,184
feels like a bunch of people who feel very, who

421
00:28:51,224 --> 00:28:56,621
feel like they are very important. But like thought leaders,

422
00:28:56,782 --> 00:29:00,485
leading platforms, industry experts. You'd think there's a couple of

423
00:29:00,545 --> 00:29:04,279
people they could have invited. Not that I'm not, not

424
00:29:04,299 --> 00:29:09,055
that I feel slighted by it, but. invite Sam Sethi

425
00:29:09,257 --> 00:29:13,559
yes Exactly. He's vocal. He's by the Podcast Standards Project.

426
00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:16,108
Yes. Why does your voice go up when you say

427
00:29:16,168 --> 00:29:25,438
that? DraftKings? Really? Better help. I've got to keep my

428
00:29:25,499 --> 00:29:30,133
voice low now. DraftKings? DraftKings? Better help, yes. I mean,

429
00:29:30,173 --> 00:29:34,425
like, what... This is... I'm sorry. I can't take this

430
00:29:34,466 --> 00:29:41,056
seriously. So let's just... Let's just tabletop this. Let's just

431
00:29:41,096 --> 00:29:43,972
game this out, Dave. Let's game it out. Is there

432
00:29:44,133 --> 00:29:49,633
any type of... Is there anything the podcast index slash

433
00:29:49,714 --> 00:29:56,360
podcasting 2.0 group of vagabonds? can produce for this group

434
00:29:56,682 --> 00:29:59,726
now no longer secret that will be a value and

435
00:29:59,766 --> 00:30:02,644
help to them? Is there something we can do? Is

436
00:30:02,684 --> 00:30:04,939
there something we can provide to them that will help

437
00:30:04,979 --> 00:30:09,745
them on their journey from accords to celebration? Yes, we

438
00:30:09,785 --> 00:30:13,119
can tell them to stop. That will save them a

439
00:30:13,219 --> 00:30:19,202
whole lot of pain. And I'm not even joking. Because

440
00:30:19,504 --> 00:30:23,985
this is, nobody's going to do this. How many times

441
00:30:24,046 --> 00:30:31,203
has this been? tried and expressed. is a new is

442
00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:37,522
What do they really want? Our agency spends more than

443
00:30:37,582 --> 00:30:40,676
half a billion dollars a year inside. inside podcasting and

444
00:30:40,717 --> 00:30:44,321
I still cannot tell a CMO with confidence what counts

445
00:30:44,401 --> 00:30:51,391
as an impression. Impression. Dan Granger said that. Television solved

446
00:30:51,431 --> 00:30:56,971
that in 1950. Yeah, with bull crap metric. Yeah, they

447
00:30:57,012 --> 00:31:01,295
couldn't tell you either. No. Digital solved it in 2005.

448
00:31:01,579 --> 00:31:06,228
No, they didn't. 2005, we were still counting hits. What

449
00:31:06,248 --> 00:31:11,074
are you talking about? The hit counter. Yeah. Podcasting is

450
00:31:11,094 --> 00:31:15,408
the only major medium left where the platforms ask advertisers

451
00:31:15,448 --> 00:31:17,775
to take their word for it and advertisers still do.

452
00:31:17,815 --> 00:31:22,401
No, they don't. Radio. TV, all of it works that

453
00:31:22,462 --> 00:31:25,926
way. That honor system has to end and the amp

454
00:31:26,026 --> 00:31:31,365
accords point to a new beginning. And again, if you

455
00:31:31,406 --> 00:31:34,323
look at this from a technical perspective, the only way...

456
00:31:35,351 --> 00:31:42,892
to get Real? Playback metrics. is with first-party data. Okay,

457
00:31:42,912 --> 00:31:47,017
stop. I'm just, this is, we're just tabletopping here. Okay.

458
00:31:47,057 --> 00:31:48,562
This is how we did COVID. Now we're going to

459
00:31:48,582 --> 00:31:53,698
do, we're going to do it for podcasting. That's right.

460
00:31:53,779 --> 00:32:01,023
Yeah. If... I'm just throwing something out there. So we

461
00:32:01,064 --> 00:32:05,717
have a lot of podcast apps. Spotify actually seems to

462
00:32:05,777 --> 00:32:11,170
have trouble. That's why they're going to video. Um... attracting

463
00:32:11,230 --> 00:32:16,589
people to use their audio product. If we all had

464
00:32:16,670 --> 00:32:20,422
first party data. And we all gave it to the

465
00:32:20,482 --> 00:32:26,728
Accords, the Amp Accords. Would the... amp accords cut the

466
00:32:26,829 --> 00:32:32,017
podcast apps in on some of the money No! Sorry,

467
00:32:32,037 --> 00:32:36,971
I went up again. It's okay. Well, then that is...

468
00:32:37,455 --> 00:32:40,283
That is the The only way, the only way you

469
00:32:40,324 --> 00:32:43,283
could... You could even conceive of making this work and

470
00:32:43,343 --> 00:32:46,793
there's no mention of it. is if you want this

471
00:32:46,894 --> 00:32:50,426
valuable data then you would have to cut the app

472
00:32:50,466 --> 00:32:54,461
developers in on it, which I actually believe would be

473
00:32:54,581 --> 00:32:59,447
very positive for podcasting in general. Do you think UTA...

474
00:32:59,931 --> 00:33:09,322
And DraftKings. Give a shit. whether or not Um. Cast-O-Matic

475
00:33:09,444 --> 00:33:13,624
gets a cut of the playback. They sh- the playback.

476
00:33:14,363 --> 00:33:19,411
Yeah. If somebody listens to an ad. Mm-hmm. On Cast-O-Matic.

477
00:33:20,375 --> 00:33:24,436
in a podcast. I don't think any of these people...

478
00:33:24,791 --> 00:33:29,647
Give one rip. But let's just look at the analogies

479
00:33:29,728 --> 00:33:35,238
they are choosing. Radio, television, etc. If I have a

480
00:33:35,298 --> 00:33:38,298
blog and I put ads on my blog, regardless of

481
00:33:38,339 --> 00:33:40,991
what the content is, my blog gets a cut of

482
00:33:41,031 --> 00:33:43,675
the money. If I have a television station and I

483
00:33:43,756 --> 00:33:47,321
run programming produced by a third party, which I may

484
00:33:47,341 --> 00:33:50,286
or may not pay for, my television station gets a

485
00:33:50,326 --> 00:33:52,449
cut of the money. If I have a radio station,

486
00:33:52,469 --> 00:33:54,673
my radio station gets a cut of the money. But

487
00:33:54,693 --> 00:33:57,277
then when it comes to podcasting, no, we're not going

488
00:33:57,297 --> 00:34:00,383
to give you any money. This is the core of

489
00:34:00,424 --> 00:34:05,303
their problem. If they came out and said, okay, everybody...

490
00:34:05,723 --> 00:34:09,395
who gives us first-party data, and there's ads running in

491
00:34:09,456 --> 00:34:13,429
podcasts, and they're on your app, you're getting a piece

492
00:34:13,469 --> 00:34:16,780
of the money, it would happen overnight. You'd have no

493
00:34:16,860 --> 00:34:20,380
problem. I think almost every day there would be some

494
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,593
developers who do the same thing. Hey, you don't want

495
00:34:23,634 --> 00:34:26,932
us to track you for ads? Pay me. Just like

496
00:34:26,953 --> 00:34:33,004
YouTube does. The model is there, but they're blind. They're

497
00:34:33,044 --> 00:34:36,474
blind to the opportunity. If they really wanted this, I

498
00:34:36,494 --> 00:34:38,943
can sit in this meeting for five minutes. Cut in

499
00:34:38,983 --> 00:34:43,337
the app developers. You got yourself a business. It's that

500
00:34:43,437 --> 00:34:46,349
easy. And are you really going to tell me that?

501
00:34:46,891 --> 00:34:51,811
Well, I don't want to spy my users. No, no.

502
00:34:52,213 --> 00:34:55,271
They'd be going, I'll take the money. They're starving. They're

503
00:34:55,292 --> 00:35:00,498
starving artists. I mean that quite literally. App developers are

504
00:35:00,558 --> 00:35:04,445
starving artists. I think every single one would be like,

505
00:35:04,465 --> 00:35:09,016
yeah, okay, I'll do that. The fact that they did

506
00:35:09,076 --> 00:35:13,281
all this in secret. To me, I can't get past

507
00:35:13,321 --> 00:35:16,688
that. I'm sorry. And it's not because I'm sort of

508
00:35:16,709 --> 00:35:24,428
open source. like Zealot. It's just that you can't get

509
00:35:24,568 --> 00:35:31,236
credibility. Right. For an initiative like this, when you start

510
00:35:31,276 --> 00:35:35,163
it with some kind of secret WhatsApp group. This just,

511
00:35:35,184 --> 00:35:38,260
like, that's not, this is dumb. No, I, I. I'm

512
00:35:39,746 --> 00:35:44,988
completely there with you. I'm handing them the solution to

513
00:35:45,028 --> 00:35:49,686
their problem. No, I feel what you're saying, and I

514
00:35:49,747 --> 00:35:53,233
know exactly what you're saying, and I think it's... It's

515
00:35:53,494 --> 00:35:56,411
the right move and it's exactly what they're not going

516
00:35:56,431 --> 00:35:59,203
to do. Everybody who wants... make money is making money

517
00:35:59,323 --> 00:36:03,253
except app developers. Hosting companies make money. If they have

518
00:36:03,333 --> 00:36:07,003
some kind of ad tech, they're making money off of

519
00:36:07,063 --> 00:36:10,973
that. Everybody is making money except the app developers. Every

520
00:36:10,993 --> 00:36:16,402
single person. And Why do people use a certain app?

521
00:36:16,422 --> 00:36:18,001
Because they love the app. They love the way. It

522
00:36:18,083 --> 00:36:22,954
functions, I love the features. You will solve this problem.

523
00:36:23,378 --> 00:36:26,490
The next accord can be a party. Break out the

524
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:30,468
champagne, people. We've solved it. Dan Granger. Hello, Dan Granger.

525
00:36:30,689 --> 00:36:34,601
Listen to my voice. Cut the app developers in on

526
00:36:34,641 --> 00:36:37,936
the ad spend and you will have exactly what you

527
00:36:37,956 --> 00:36:43,774
want. End of message. End of message. Well, you say

528
00:36:43,814 --> 00:36:46,863
that, but why is it, why? App developers, raise your

529
00:36:46,883 --> 00:36:49,792
hand. Because look who's involved, because look who the members

530
00:36:49,972 --> 00:36:56,736
are. No, but. SiriusXM, Spotify. They're not going to cut

531
00:36:56,776 --> 00:37:00,237
anybody in on that. What do you mean they're not

532
00:37:00,257 --> 00:37:03,513
going to cut? Listen, if you're hosting and you have

533
00:37:03,553 --> 00:37:09,782
an ad network, you're already cut in. They are. Because

534
00:37:09,842 --> 00:37:14,072
they run the ad networks and the... and the uh

535
00:37:14,273 --> 00:37:16,810
and the app i can literally i can literally run

536
00:37:16,871 --> 00:37:19,371
the numbers and show you that it would be accretive

537
00:37:19,431 --> 00:37:21,995
to their business if they cut the app developers in.

538
00:37:22,543 --> 00:37:26,210
but they don't care. Yep, they do care. They want

539
00:37:26,291 --> 00:37:34,039
this. That would be like Google. Saying that Firefox needs

540
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:36,148
to get a cut of all the ad revenue that

541
00:37:36,188 --> 00:37:41,115
comes that served from Google's ad service. verse. Well, now

542
00:37:41,175 --> 00:37:43,233
they're not going to do it. Now this is a

543
00:37:43,274 --> 00:37:51,451
very interesting, interesting case. um Apple. gets a huge amount

544
00:37:51,471 --> 00:37:56,260
of ad revenue for sending stuff to Google. to Google

545
00:37:57,637 --> 00:38:02,145
search. - Traffic, yeah. - Traffic, yeah. You know, I

546
00:38:02,387 --> 00:38:06,299
think it's apples and oranges. You saying they're not going

547
00:38:06,319 --> 00:38:10,590
to do it is probably the default correct answer. But

548
00:38:11,175 --> 00:38:18,206
if they did do it, tabletopping, remember. Lab 257. We're

549
00:38:18,247 --> 00:38:21,777
just... We're just gaming this out, baby. Red team, red

550
00:38:21,817 --> 00:38:26,852
team. If If you cut the app developers in, the

551
00:38:26,953 --> 00:38:31,704
problem would be solved overnight. And everybody would have the

552
00:38:31,785 --> 00:38:35,498
same metrics. It'd have better metrics than you can even

553
00:38:35,578 --> 00:38:40,114
imagine. There would be upsell type metrics. You know, hey,

554
00:38:40,194 --> 00:38:43,047
log it. You could even, the app developers could cut

555
00:38:43,067 --> 00:38:45,819
their customers in. I can see the ecosystem right in

556
00:38:45,879 --> 00:38:49,087
front of my face. And I think app developers have

557
00:38:49,127 --> 00:38:52,766
moved beyond the, I just want to be the neutral.

558
00:38:53,007 --> 00:38:58,071
No, you're starving. So why wouldn't you? You know who

559
00:38:58,131 --> 00:39:03,833
doesn't care? Users. don't care. Users get tracked and monetized

560
00:39:04,095 --> 00:39:10,417
everywhere except on podcast apps. Everywhere else, you're monetizing. People

561
00:39:10,457 --> 00:39:15,160
are monetized by apps and by websites and by computer

562
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:21,226
operating systems. The users actually don't care anymore. So why

563
00:39:21,267 --> 00:39:25,012
don't we all join hands and let's jump in. It's

564
00:39:25,052 --> 00:39:29,470
now called the Atom Accords. And is Netanyahu going to

565
00:39:29,511 --> 00:39:33,508
be signing this? You had to take me there, huh?

566
00:39:34,503 --> 00:39:37,500
I mean, if it's called the Accords, I mean, come

567
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,221
on, that's only a Middle East thing. We will open

568
00:39:41,762 --> 00:39:46,693
the Straits of Podcasting. If you join the Adam Accord.

569
00:39:47,635 --> 00:39:50,582
The oil will flow. It will flow like money, like

570
00:39:50,662 --> 00:39:56,636
black gold, I tell you. That's the way you sell

571
00:39:56,676 --> 00:39:58,427
this thing. You come out of secret and you say,

572
00:39:58,447 --> 00:40:00,660
we're going to reopen the Straits of Hormuz. but we

573
00:40:01,282 --> 00:40:04,591
just need all the podcast apps to give us first-party

574
00:40:04,631 --> 00:40:08,121
data. I'm telling you. Yes. That's it. That's it. And

575
00:40:08,201 --> 00:40:10,327
I just want a show of hands. Well, you know

576
00:40:10,347 --> 00:40:12,995
what? Screw that show of hands. Boost in. Let me

577
00:40:13,035 --> 00:40:17,819
know if you're an app developer. Would you give first-party

578
00:40:17,859 --> 00:40:21,572
data for a cut of the money? Let's see. Uhhhh

579
00:40:22,183 --> 00:40:27,345
I'm Sam Sessy. Sam Sethy. Uh, 777. Do you recall

580
00:40:27,405 --> 00:40:31,837
our conversation on Podcasting 2.0 about reverse sats? I think

581
00:40:31,877 --> 00:40:34,403
with splits you can pay the app dev, the podcast,

582
00:40:34,423 --> 00:40:37,050
and even a small amount for the listener. Then everyone

583
00:40:37,090 --> 00:40:41,284
wants to hear ads. Yes, I recall. Yes. I understand.

584
00:40:41,305 --> 00:40:44,102
No, that is not the way the Adam Accords are

585
00:40:44,122 --> 00:40:48,614
going to work. Straight up Sam Sethi boost me back.

586
00:40:49,237 --> 00:40:51,950
If you could get, if you gave first party data

587
00:40:51,970 --> 00:40:56,954
to the advertising agency. And you got paid, you got,

588
00:40:57,317 --> 00:41:01,644
you know, 10% or 15% or 5%. Of the ad

589
00:41:01,704 --> 00:41:06,342
revenue, would you take it? You are the most commercial-minded

590
00:41:06,423 --> 00:41:13,919
guy I know. Make your choice wisely. Okay, let's just

591
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:15,657
wait and see what he says. We'll wait until he

592
00:41:15,697 --> 00:41:20,580
comes back. And, you know, Martin's out there listening. Mitch

593
00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:25,069
is out there listening. Everyone's out there listening. Why don't

594
00:41:25,109 --> 00:41:27,333
we bring in Mike and see what he has to

595
00:41:27,353 --> 00:41:29,678
say. I wonder what he says. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome

596
00:41:29,718 --> 00:41:31,762
back. He's been on the boardroom before, I think. Yes,

597
00:41:31,822 --> 00:41:36,392
I'm sure he has. Sam Sethi with a ceasefire violation.

598
00:41:38,776 --> 00:41:42,805
Welcome back to the boardroom. Hey everybody, it's Mike Dell

599
00:41:42,885 --> 00:41:47,815
on the microphone. Hey, how's it going guys? I had

600
00:41:47,895 --> 00:41:50,260
all kinds of comments and if I was recording them

601
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,208
it would be an interesting subtract. Well, we're sorry. We're

602
00:41:54,268 --> 00:41:57,314
sorry. We completely forgot about you. We're in our own

603
00:41:57,374 --> 00:42:01,590
little world. Mike. Tell us exactly what you do at

604
00:42:01,652 --> 00:42:07,860
Blueberry. I am the VP of operations, which basically chief

605
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,265
bottle washer and do a little everything. You know, we're

606
00:42:11,285 --> 00:42:15,152
a small team. So we would now, Blueberry has ad

607
00:42:15,212 --> 00:42:20,430
networks. You have ad monetization systems in place. What do

608
00:42:20,470 --> 00:42:24,128
you think of the Adam Accord's idea of cutting in

609
00:42:24,188 --> 00:42:26,881
the app developers on the ad spend if they deliver

610
00:42:26,962 --> 00:42:32,084
first-party data? Yeah, you know, they're giving data. They should

611
00:42:32,125 --> 00:42:35,433
get something in return for it. On the other hand,

612
00:42:35,958 --> 00:42:39,188
how much data do you actually need? You know, if

613
00:42:39,208 --> 00:42:41,596
I do an ad on somebody's podcast, I'm going to

614
00:42:41,797 --> 00:42:44,304
measure it by how much did I sell because of

615
00:42:44,344 --> 00:42:47,414
that ad, not how many people listened to it or

616
00:42:47,494 --> 00:42:50,694
skipped over it or ignored it. Coming in with three

617
00:42:50,775 --> 00:42:56,162
sevens on the set, Sam Sethi says... Survey says, hell

618
00:42:56,243 --> 00:42:59,702
yes, I'll take the money. Exactly. Of course. That's just

619
00:42:59,762 --> 00:43:01,967
spoken like a true Samson. He now takes a seat

620
00:43:02,028 --> 00:43:07,241
at the right hand here in the Adam Accords. I'm

621
00:43:07,341 --> 00:43:09,667
really getting out there. I got to be careful what

622
00:43:09,767 --> 00:43:14,726
I'm saying. Lightning bolts are in the air. But it's

623
00:43:14,767 --> 00:43:17,210
really that simple. It's that simple. I think it's actually

624
00:43:17,250 --> 00:43:21,113
a great idea. They should do that. Stop monkeying around.

625
00:43:21,233 --> 00:43:24,666
Stop circle jerking with meetings. All right, who's going to

626
00:43:24,706 --> 00:43:28,118
do the coffee and donuts next time? No. Put it

627
00:43:28,222 --> 00:43:31,746
out there. This is the kind of thing that podcast

628
00:43:31,827 --> 00:43:38,720
people have loved for so long is to have. nonprofits.

629
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,170
and steering committees. Oh, yes. Everyone grab the wheel. What

630
00:43:43,210 --> 00:43:46,559
could possibly go wrong? Steer the car. Yeah, exactly. And,

631
00:43:46,579 --> 00:43:50,152
like, we need a, you know, we need a... a

632
00:43:50,172 --> 00:43:54,185
foundation for so-and-so. I mean, it's like, and all that

633
00:43:54,225 --> 00:43:59,512
stuff evaporates. I think you're, I think you're wrong. DraftKings

634
00:44:00,096 --> 00:44:04,944
would love to know exactly how many people heard their

635
00:44:05,145 --> 00:44:08,601
ad. and their location and what app they were using

636
00:44:08,641 --> 00:44:11,295
and their operating system. Were they walking? Were they sitting

637
00:44:11,395 --> 00:44:14,963
down? Were they sleeping? Were they in bed? And, you

638
00:44:15,024 --> 00:44:17,208
know, for a little extra Benny, I want to know

639
00:44:17,248 --> 00:44:20,001
who they are. Now, I'm sure people will give that

640
00:44:20,143 --> 00:44:25,138
up. That's your reverse sat, Sam Sethi. Hey, if you

641
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,009
give me a login and you give me your name

642
00:44:27,049 --> 00:44:29,422
and some details, I will give you 5% of my

643
00:44:29,442 --> 00:44:36,709
5%. This is America. This is how we operate. DraftKings

644
00:44:36,770 --> 00:44:40,124
is probably not... a great example because they would they

645
00:44:40,205 --> 00:44:44,992
have would have the immediate vested interest to, they would

646
00:44:45,033 --> 00:44:50,120
just. or something like polymarket. They would immediately just monetize

647
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,461
that information. was like bet on how many people listen

648
00:44:54,521 --> 00:45:00,119
to our ads in uh well okay On the Roku.

649
00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:05,380
Now you're just being funny. I have delivered a solution

650
00:45:05,420 --> 00:45:10,127
for the podcast industry that held meetings in secret. No,

651
00:45:10,308 --> 00:45:15,153
I believe in the Adam Accords. I will be... The

652
00:45:15,294 --> 00:45:18,620
ambassador for the Adam Accords. I will gladly- I will

653
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:26,835
gladly go with some sort of tribute to whoever, but

654
00:45:26,876 --> 00:45:30,282
they will not talk to us. Mike, would you like

655
00:45:30,362 --> 00:45:34,490
a title in the Adam Accords? Oh, sure. I'll take

656
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:40,924
anything. Well, there's your answer, everybody. It's very simple. We

657
00:45:40,964 --> 00:45:44,029
don't have to have any more conversations or meetings. The

658
00:45:44,089 --> 00:45:47,375
top podcast apps will all take your money. It's that

659
00:45:47,415 --> 00:45:50,680
simple. And the users will be even happier for it.

660
00:45:51,321 --> 00:45:53,185
Hey, we're going to promise them to give them the

661
00:45:53,265 --> 00:45:59,184
right ad at the right time. That old yarn. Yeah.

662
00:45:59,645 --> 00:46:01,751
In your fridge, you'll order your milkshake. But it's, you

663
00:46:01,771 --> 00:46:04,498
know, and I actually have this on my list. You

664
00:46:04,518 --> 00:46:09,391
know, I heard the surprising story that the BIPOC podcast

665
00:46:09,451 --> 00:46:16,163
creators has closed. Because no one gave him money anymore.

666
00:46:16,487 --> 00:46:20,441
And the money they got. was to enter into podcast

667
00:46:20,461 --> 00:46:26,390
awards. Are you kidding me? This is nuts! So yeah,

668
00:46:26,975 --> 00:46:31,702
once DEI folded, your money went away. It doesn't mean

669
00:46:31,722 --> 00:46:35,853
that podcasting is racist. or that we don't love you

670
00:46:35,913 --> 00:46:38,824
or that you're not welcome here. It was a virtue

671
00:46:38,905 --> 00:46:43,675
signal to start with. whole thing is just like duh

672
00:46:44,767 --> 00:46:51,111
Sir Spencer said... I have to say. He said they're

673
00:46:51,151 --> 00:46:56,827
not looking for, they just want confidence. They're not like...

674
00:46:57,759 --> 00:47:01,058
They're not looking for – they aren't looking for saying

675
00:47:01,118 --> 00:47:05,756
something true. They're looking for saying something with confidence. Buh-duh

676
00:47:06,207 --> 00:47:13,460
That sounds... to me That is such a... insightful thing

677
00:47:13,501 --> 00:47:18,604
to say, I think. That has connotations. for our entire,

678
00:47:18,686 --> 00:47:22,257
I think that. Well, it's true. Ask connotations for everything

679
00:47:22,297 --> 00:47:25,805
today. Yes, but that's what Nielsen has always been. It's

680
00:47:25,906 --> 00:47:29,074
confidence. They came up with a metric. Everyone agreed on

681
00:47:29,134 --> 00:47:32,922
it early on, 1950s. I'm like, okay, that's it. We

682
00:47:32,942 --> 00:47:37,589
don't question it. We don't say it's no good. We

683
00:47:37,630 --> 00:47:40,784
don't compete with it because it works for everybody. So

684
00:47:40,804 --> 00:47:45,644
yes, it's confidence. And the Atom Accords will deliver mega

685
00:47:45,704 --> 00:47:51,015
confidence and upside you've never even thought of. Stop circle

686
00:47:51,117 --> 00:47:56,910
jerking, you people! Dan Granger, call me. Slide into my

687
00:47:56,990 --> 00:48:01,664
DMs, baby. Let me talk to your group. I will

688
00:48:01,744 --> 00:48:07,201
represent all the independent podcast apps except for Overcast. No,

689
00:48:07,361 --> 00:48:12,138
if you talk to the Abraham or whatever their accords

690
00:48:12,159 --> 00:48:14,527
are called. The Amp Accords. If you talk to the

691
00:48:14,668 --> 00:48:17,478
Amp Accords, they're going to say things like they did

692
00:48:17,538 --> 00:48:20,204
about you. about you and the podcast standards project in

693
00:48:20,244 --> 00:48:23,570
the room. They're like, everybody was in agreement except Adam

694
00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:28,460
who was heckling. What? That happened? Don't do video. That

695
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,887
happens? Somebody's got to heckle, you know. Was that in

696
00:48:31,927 --> 00:48:33,951
a report? Was that in the meeting notes? I missed

697
00:48:33,991 --> 00:48:36,376
that. I think, I don't know who said that, but

698
00:48:36,396 --> 00:48:40,718
I remember it. Except Adam. Yeah, he was sitting there

699
00:48:40,758 --> 00:48:42,807
saying, don't do video. Y'all are doing the wrong thing.

700
00:48:42,828 --> 00:48:45,359
Stop before you go off a cliff. There you go.

701
00:48:46,001 --> 00:48:51,193
Yeah, well, we'll see. The whole video thing, I think,

702
00:48:51,755 --> 00:48:55,090
is all about advertising. Yes, it's part of the... They're

703
00:48:55,130 --> 00:48:58,361
trying to solve... We tried to... to meet them in

704
00:48:58,401 --> 00:49:02,872
the middle, solving a problem that didn't really exist by

705
00:49:03,012 --> 00:49:06,179
making video. Oh, well, if we do video, then all

706
00:49:06,199 --> 00:49:09,066
of a sudden it's understandable. Oh, it's video. It's like

707
00:49:09,126 --> 00:49:13,285
YouTube. Yeah, exactly. No, it's not. It's not because it's

708
00:49:13,325 --> 00:49:18,272
delivered differently. You still have the different metrics. Unless... unless

709
00:49:18,312 --> 00:49:21,594
you listen to the sound of my voice. Well, some

710
00:49:21,674 --> 00:49:26,943
of the platforms are doing the alternate enclosure, which is

711
00:49:26,983 --> 00:49:31,595
closer to... The free and open. You know, there's some

712
00:49:31,635 --> 00:49:34,487
doing it via API. We're right kind of in the

713
00:49:34,567 --> 00:49:38,520
middle of developing all that stuff here at Blueberry. But

714
00:49:38,540 --> 00:49:40,470
you see, the thing is, it's not about open or

715
00:49:40,510 --> 00:49:47,828
closed. That's irrelevant. It's about... Money Flow Yeah. That's all.

716
00:49:48,535 --> 00:49:51,541
You want first-party data? Put your money where your mouth

717
00:49:51,642 --> 00:49:59,891
is. That's it. Is that it? What is my... Mike,

718
00:49:59,931 --> 00:50:03,517
what is Blueberry doing on video? We're going to be

719
00:50:03,557 --> 00:50:08,665
doing the Apple HLS. We'll support as much as we

720
00:50:08,725 --> 00:50:12,151
can, of course, because that's what customers seem to think

721
00:50:12,331 --> 00:50:16,117
they want. How does that get measured? How do you

722
00:50:16,217 --> 00:50:19,574
measure your HLS? video is that a different metric than

723
00:50:19,916 --> 00:50:23,786
uh than you have for audio I assume it's going

724
00:50:23,826 --> 00:50:27,419
to be very similar because, you know, even with Apple,

725
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,911
you know, they're pulling it from our servers. So we'll

726
00:50:31,012 --> 00:50:34,123
have the log files on that. So we'll definitely develop.

727
00:50:34,831 --> 00:50:38,202
Uh... stats. It'll be similar to what we do for

728
00:50:38,222 --> 00:50:43,188
audio here's a question you have advertising products correct We

729
00:50:43,228 --> 00:50:46,976
have for audio, yes. We have audio programmatic. Okay, so

730
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:51,447
you offer this to your clients, your customers, who pay

731
00:50:51,507 --> 00:50:57,450
you handsomely on a monthly basis, and then you... interface

732
00:50:57,591 --> 00:51:01,367
or your company interfaces with the advertisers, the agencies buying

733
00:51:01,407 --> 00:51:05,203
the ads. It's probably a sound stack. I'm just guessing.

734
00:51:05,655 --> 00:51:10,971
um with some other big conglomerates. It's a third party

735
00:51:11,072 --> 00:51:14,929
that does the ad. And you give them the stats

736
00:51:15,049 --> 00:51:17,643
and they pay you and then you take... your cut

737
00:51:17,663 --> 00:51:25,958
and you pay the podcaster. Correct. If you had... I

738
00:51:26,020 --> 00:51:32,368
mean... just seems so simple to me. Duh. I'm at

739
00:51:32,428 --> 00:51:34,682
a loss for words. It's so simple. It's so easy.

740
00:51:34,702 --> 00:51:36,775
The Adam Accords. You're stuck on the Adam Accords. The

741
00:51:36,855 --> 00:51:39,806
Adam Accords. I mean, I've already, it's in stone. It's

742
00:51:39,866 --> 00:51:42,534
on two tablets. It's good to go. It's good to

743
00:51:42,734 --> 00:51:45,603
go. Don't throw it down the mountain. I'll just make

744
00:51:45,643 --> 00:51:49,945
you two more. Don't worry about it. Stone is cheap.

745
00:51:50,208 --> 00:51:55,868
Make more. I think this is a winning solution. And

746
00:51:56,592 --> 00:52:01,246
we're uniquely positioned. to help them. do this and then

747
00:52:01,266 --> 00:52:03,238
i'm i'm just going to say i think i think

748
00:52:03,298 --> 00:52:07,590
that this will be heard But they don't want help

749
00:52:07,650 --> 00:52:10,148
because they did it all in secret. That tells me

750
00:52:10,168 --> 00:52:16,472
they don't want help. Well, no, they're just misguided. They're

751
00:52:16,492 --> 00:52:20,553
misguided! No they are! They're mis- They don't see the

752
00:52:20,634 --> 00:52:26,929
forest for the trees. Adam, your critical flaw. is that

753
00:52:26,970 --> 00:52:31,912
you are too optimistic. You are not nearly cynical enough

754
00:52:31,952 --> 00:52:38,985
and beat down. They're also aiming at the top. 5%

755
00:52:39,729 --> 00:52:45,499
of podcasters, however you define that. Which is even dumber.

756
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:51,624
I mean, how many... Just your Sam Sethi. Answer this

757
00:52:51,684 --> 00:52:57,205
question. How many... How many listening hours do you think

758
00:52:57,447 --> 00:53:02,492
that True Fans provides? on a daily, weekly, monthly basis.

759
00:53:02,592 --> 00:53:05,438
I bet it's a lot. And how many ads are

760
00:53:05,518 --> 00:53:08,564
running that you could report back on? I bet it's

761
00:53:08,604 --> 00:53:11,230
a lot. Now you add all of the podcast apps

762
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:18,399
together, it starts to get pretty interesting. Yeah, and you

763
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,228
know the shows that get 100 downloads an episode. can

764
00:53:22,248 --> 00:53:26,256
be just as valuable to those hundred listeners that, you

765
00:53:26,276 --> 00:53:30,004
know, somebody like Rogan that gets millions. Of course. And

766
00:53:30,145 --> 00:53:34,975
once you know, once the user, the user is told.

767
00:53:35,619 --> 00:53:40,383
Hey, I'm going to give you a... A widget If

768
00:53:40,424 --> 00:53:44,392
you create a login. or I'll cut you in or

769
00:53:44,452 --> 00:53:47,541
whatever it is. You know, we kind of like that

770
00:53:47,561 --> 00:53:50,850
in podcasting. We like distributing to everybody except to the

771
00:53:50,951 --> 00:53:54,922
app developers for some reason. And, you know, how many

772
00:53:54,962 --> 00:53:57,991
times have we heard hosting companies should support app companies?

773
00:53:58,347 --> 00:54:01,826
You know, everyone holds their own, but there's a billion

774
00:54:01,866 --> 00:54:05,321
dollars of money out there. A billion. A billion is

775
00:54:05,381 --> 00:54:08,624
a lot. A billion dollars. Well, way back in the

776
00:54:08,685 --> 00:54:11,517
day, you know, when we had Blueberry, we pretty much

777
00:54:11,557 --> 00:54:16,599
started, you know, as an ad agency for podcasters. Yeah.

778
00:54:16,987 --> 00:54:20,660
And, but we tried to sell a a lot of

779
00:54:20,700 --> 00:54:26,821
little shows getting the same number of downloads as... three

780
00:54:26,842 --> 00:54:30,689
or four big shows. But the ad buyers are lazy

781
00:54:30,729 --> 00:54:34,577
and they don't want to. They don't want to keep

782
00:54:34,617 --> 00:54:40,251
track of 200 shows. Let's run the numbers. A billion

783
00:54:40,291 --> 00:54:43,068
dollars. They're saying a billion dollars extra money. It says

784
00:54:43,128 --> 00:54:46,426
it right there, a billion dollars. On the sidelines. Okay,

785
00:54:46,849 --> 00:54:48,903
we'll help you bring in a billion dollars by creating

786
00:54:48,964 --> 00:54:53,295
a new metric. That's a thousand million. All right. So

787
00:54:53,778 --> 00:54:56,393
what if of that thousand million, we take 10%, well,

788
00:54:56,413 --> 00:55:04,347
5%. That's $50 million. How many podcast apps are there?

789
00:55:05,759 --> 00:55:08,360
starts to get interesting people what if you could make

790
00:55:08,421 --> 00:55:12,339
a hundred grand on your app I don't know about

791
00:55:12,359 --> 00:55:16,463
this billion dollars sitting on the sidelines. Oh, absolutely. Of

792
00:55:16,564 --> 00:55:19,762
course. Like it's just sitting there. No, no. No, no,

793
00:55:19,842 --> 00:55:24,868
no. Waiting to be, quote, deployed? No, it's a billion

794
00:55:24,928 --> 00:55:28,108
dollars of money that's going to YouTube. That's what it

795
00:55:28,229 --> 00:55:32,280
is. Oh, okay. You have to figure out the code

796
00:55:32,340 --> 00:55:35,568
language. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a billion dollars that's only

797
00:55:35,628 --> 00:55:38,155
going to YouTube, and that's why YouTube's in the group.

798
00:55:38,195 --> 00:55:40,753
This is no good. Those guys suck. Are they in

799
00:55:40,794 --> 00:55:43,244
this group? I didn't think they were. Oh, I thought

800
00:55:43,304 --> 00:55:45,936
they were. I thought they were. Wait, let me go

801
00:55:45,976 --> 00:55:52,583
back to the amp accords. Members. Okay, members. Flight Story,

802
00:55:53,207 --> 00:56:02,113
Lipson, Oxford Road. Podscribe. Better help serious XM Media. Oh,

803
00:56:02,133 --> 00:56:05,667
they're not in there. Yeah, no, they're not in there.

804
00:56:05,848 --> 00:56:09,239
Oh, well, it makes it even better. So this is

805
00:56:09,319 --> 00:56:16,190
starting to make more sense. And UTA. So Spotify. is

806
00:56:16,452 --> 00:56:19,196
in this spotify and sirius they want to take my

807
00:56:19,216 --> 00:56:21,769
youtube money everybody wants they want to get the money

808
00:56:21,950 --> 00:56:26,369
yeah everybody wants okay okay this is not serious this

809
00:56:26,449 --> 00:56:30,922
is not a serious endeavor It could be. I bet

810
00:56:30,942 --> 00:56:36,615
you they got an LLC. you 501 3C. Oh, yeah,

811
00:56:36,756 --> 00:56:40,344
for sure. But this is not a serious endeavor. Hey,

812
00:56:40,384 --> 00:56:44,423
Mike, you were supposed to be on last week. I

813
00:56:44,484 --> 00:56:47,558
apologize. I actually invited you the week before. I mean,

814
00:56:47,638 --> 00:56:51,056
I'm such a mess. That's okay. That actually wasn't me.

815
00:56:51,116 --> 00:56:55,347
That was my robot. Make sure you invite Dell over

816
00:56:55,387 --> 00:56:58,736
there. By the way, congratulations on the 10% increase in

817
00:56:58,776 --> 00:57:03,326
the stock price of Dell. computers. I'm very happy for

818
00:57:03,366 --> 00:57:07,435
your family. They popped today. Congratulations. It's funny. I get

819
00:57:07,535 --> 00:57:09,860
email every once in a while because I have the

820
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:15,972
email address mike at mike dell dot com. People email

821
00:57:16,092 --> 00:57:19,419
and complain about their Dell computer. I always tell them.

822
00:57:19,427 --> 00:57:21,250
Go buy a Mac. That's what I do. That's great.

823
00:57:22,572 --> 00:57:27,340
Buy a Mac. Dude, you got a Dell. Yeah, what's

824
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,305
your, give me your service ID number and I'll see

825
00:57:30,325 --> 00:57:33,009
what I can do. Let me log into your computer.

826
00:57:33,130 --> 00:57:37,276
Give me your password. No, Mike, you had an exciting

827
00:57:37,336 --> 00:57:40,660
bit of news, which is not. necessarily new news right

828
00:57:40,721 --> 00:57:44,623
now, but we do want to have you promote your

829
00:57:44,663 --> 00:57:52,254
wares. Yeah. Brendan from Podpage and Blueberry got together and

830
00:57:52,274 --> 00:57:55,768
decided that Blueberry sucked at making landing pages that weren't

831
00:57:55,788 --> 00:58:00,371
WordPress. Who decided that? You or him? No, we both

832
00:58:00,431 --> 00:58:03,282
did. All of us kind of did. It was mutual.

833
00:58:04,086 --> 00:58:08,323
Well, you know, we had started on making a competing

834
00:58:08,403 --> 00:58:13,028
product to Podpage. And the further we got into it,

835
00:58:13,048 --> 00:58:15,280
he says, this is hard. These guys are doing good.

836
00:58:17,130 --> 00:58:21,323
So, you know. Brennan reached out to me first, but

837
00:58:21,424 --> 00:58:23,876
I was real close to reaching out to him and

838
00:58:23,996 --> 00:58:27,433
I said, hey, let's do a deal. So now if

839
00:58:27,453 --> 00:58:30,431
you're a hosting customer at Blueberry, you have a choice.

840
00:58:30,511 --> 00:58:33,853
You can use PowerPress and do a WordPress site. Or

841
00:58:33,873 --> 00:58:37,130
you can do a pod page and you get that,

842
00:58:37,251 --> 00:58:41,424
you know, get the free basic. a decent looking page

843
00:58:41,544 --> 00:58:44,893
from Podpage just by having a Blueberry hosting account. -

844
00:58:44,913 --> 00:58:46,617
Do you mind if I ask you some business questions

845
00:58:46,657 --> 00:58:49,264
about this? Just out of pure interest? - Sure, but

846
00:58:49,304 --> 00:58:55,967
I'm under NDA. I'm just, I'm, you know, channeling my

847
00:58:56,087 --> 00:58:59,229
inner Todd. That was good. That was good. That was

848
00:58:59,329 --> 00:59:02,967
very good. Actually, my heart stood still for a moment.

849
00:59:03,650 --> 00:59:07,399
Like he's speaking to me from heaven. So do you

850
00:59:07,439 --> 00:59:11,111
get a benefit if someone converts to a paying customer

851
00:59:11,172 --> 00:59:15,787
on PodPage? Yeah, we have a relationship that way or

852
00:59:16,068 --> 00:59:18,777
either way. If they send us a hosting customer, we

853
00:59:18,817 --> 00:59:21,780
send them a... A pod page customer. Excellent. Well, I'm

854
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,831
a pod page customer. I like them very much, and

855
00:59:23,872 --> 00:59:25,682
I pay a lot of money to them to have

856
00:59:25,722 --> 00:59:31,015
the... my own.com working on their stuff. So it's very

857
00:59:31,076 --> 00:59:35,146
good. You know, I've dealt with customers for, you know,

858
00:59:35,166 --> 00:59:39,719
15 years using PowerPress and I've come to the conclusion

859
00:59:39,799 --> 00:59:43,932
that unless you're into WordPress. it's not a good place

860
00:59:43,973 --> 00:59:47,879
to put a newbie. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Whereas

861
00:59:47,919 --> 00:59:50,964
pod page, you know, you go over there, you can

862
00:59:51,244 --> 00:59:53,728
make it look the way you want and it works

863
00:59:53,768 --> 00:59:57,775
really well. It's just a no brainer. If you just

864
00:59:57,815 --> 01:00:00,519
want a simple landing page, which you want your own.com.

865
01:00:01,103 --> 01:00:04,529
That's awesome. You know. And it's kind of the opposite

866
01:00:04,770 --> 01:00:09,278
of, it's the opposite flow. Whereas with WordPress and PowerPress,

867
01:00:09,759 --> 01:00:12,905
you create your design and then you publish. Whereas with

868
01:00:12,925 --> 01:00:16,913
PodPress, you publish and the design sucks it into whatever

869
01:00:16,933 --> 01:00:21,121
it needs to be. It's the opposite flow. over there

870
01:00:21,541 --> 01:00:25,189
too for Blueberry customers. Ooh, fancy! Does it have a

871
01:00:25,209 --> 01:00:28,516
little Blueberry logo that goes back to your website? In

872
01:00:28,556 --> 01:00:31,982
the dashboard. Yeah, nice! Of course. Nice, nice. Top five

873
01:00:32,103 --> 01:00:35,790
of the web. Brendan's been awesome to work with. Our

874
01:00:35,830 --> 01:00:38,195
dev team and him just knocked it out. This is

875
01:00:38,275 --> 01:00:41,978
probably the quickest project. we've had in a long time

876
01:00:42,140 --> 01:00:47,943
for a major product release. You've been, you've been like

877
01:00:47,984 --> 01:00:51,693
boots on the ground helping customers with like so long

878
01:00:51,733 --> 01:00:55,883
nitty gritty details of launching their stuff. Like in a

879
01:00:55,963 --> 01:01:01,801
way that I honestly don't. No. of any other. podcast

880
01:01:01,821 --> 01:01:06,447
support person that does this. I mean, You're just like...

881
01:01:06,995 --> 01:01:09,570
having phone calls with people to help them set up

882
01:01:09,610 --> 01:01:15,379
word power press and it feels like Man, that has

883
01:01:15,420 --> 01:01:19,126
just got to be... the most frustrating experience sometimes because

884
01:01:19,206 --> 01:01:22,339
there's gonna be like Working on somebody's WordPress site and

885
01:01:22,419 --> 01:01:27,387
they've got 27 plugins. And, you know, it's messing up

886
01:01:27,488 --> 01:01:30,475
everything. Yeah, the worst part of it now is a

887
01:01:30,616 --> 01:01:33,924
lot of the WordPress hosts want to upsell you security.

888
01:01:34,024 --> 01:01:35,949
Oh, my gosh, you know, you got to have your

889
01:01:36,050 --> 01:01:38,696
site locked down like Fort Knox. And, you know, and

890
01:01:38,716 --> 01:01:42,336
they think that. Somebody hitting an RSS feed is, oh,

891
01:01:42,356 --> 01:01:44,300
that's got to be a bot. We'll just block that,

892
01:01:44,501 --> 01:01:47,828
you know, and it's, you know, it's just whack-a-mole, you

893
01:01:47,868 --> 01:01:50,513
know, and there's, and I won't name them, but there

894
01:01:50,573 --> 01:01:54,973
are some WordPress hosts out there that I. Would say,

895
01:01:55,238 --> 01:02:01,223
uh, uh... Don't use them. You know? So, you know,

896
01:02:01,243 --> 01:02:03,459
like I said, WordPress is awesome. I use it on

897
01:02:03,519 --> 01:02:08,212
one of my shows. You know, it's... It's great. But

898
01:02:08,232 --> 01:02:11,229
I also have another show that I do that is

899
01:02:11,309 --> 01:02:16,247
on PodPage. And specifically because... I don't want to have

900
01:02:16,287 --> 01:02:20,782
to deal with all the... Possible problems with conflicts and

901
01:02:20,862 --> 01:02:23,529
all that in WordPress. Like I said, WordPress is great

902
01:02:23,609 --> 01:02:26,978
for those that like WordPress and we support that 100%.

903
01:02:27,460 --> 01:02:33,647
How does PodPage deal with video? Is that a thing

904
01:02:33,707 --> 01:02:37,144
that they're handling yet? Yeah. They have a video player.

905
01:02:37,205 --> 01:02:40,439
They take the player from the host, at least. Like

906
01:02:40,740 --> 01:02:44,067
if you're a blueberry customer, you get the blueberry player

907
01:02:44,147 --> 01:02:48,416
on your pod page. And, you know, as for our

908
01:02:48,436 --> 01:02:52,484
video podcasts, we have a video player and they support

909
01:02:52,544 --> 01:02:55,971
that. So it's really no different. You know, they're just

910
01:02:56,111 --> 01:02:59,137
creating a webpage out of the RSS feed and then

911
01:02:59,177 --> 01:03:01,843
you can go in and... Style it and add pages

912
01:03:01,924 --> 01:03:07,180
and whatnot. I'm curious about this because... We had a

913
01:03:07,241 --> 01:03:14,045
discussion this morning. in our Godcaster Signal chat. We had

914
01:03:14,065 --> 01:03:16,661
a discussion this morning about stats and attribution and these

915
01:03:16,721 --> 01:03:18,935
kinds of things, just going back and forth about things.

916
01:03:19,491 --> 01:03:23,570
You know, the web is such a messy. environment you

917
01:03:23,610 --> 01:03:28,373
have you have like uh mobile apps uh you know

918
01:03:28,413 --> 01:03:31,043
of course the podcast apps and that kind of thing.

919
01:03:31,645 --> 01:03:34,518
And that's a little more reliable just because there's so

920
01:03:34,538 --> 01:03:37,591
many barriers to entry to get to do fraud on

921
01:03:37,651 --> 01:03:39,740
a platform like that as far as like click. and

922
01:03:39,881 --> 01:03:41,950
those sorts of things. Oh, yeah. I've been dealing with

923
01:03:42,030 --> 01:03:45,786
that with our programmatic. Oh, have you? Okay. Oh, yeah.

924
01:03:45,967 --> 01:03:49,161
Well, you can impersonate the user agent of those apps,

925
01:03:49,241 --> 01:03:53,935
but you... But to actually get real traffic from an

926
01:03:53,975 --> 01:03:57,269
installed app is more difficult. There you go. You're singing

927
01:03:57,309 --> 01:03:59,719
my praises once again. Let's get rid of all those...

928
01:03:59,699 --> 01:04:08,906
Stupid browser downloads. Scam. Well, didn't NPR come up with

929
01:04:08,947 --> 01:04:11,574
something like this way back when, you know, where they

930
01:04:11,615 --> 01:04:15,005
wanted the apps to put in this first-party stuff? That

931
01:04:15,286 --> 01:04:21,323
was an acronym with four letters. Yeah, start with R.

932
01:04:22,095 --> 01:04:29,168
Rest, rest, rest, rapid. RDA or something like that. Rad.

933
01:04:29,329 --> 01:04:34,665
Rad. Rad. Rad. There you go. Radio, audio, dumbos. I

934
01:04:34,685 --> 01:04:36,972
can't remember what it stood for. Rad. Something like that.

935
01:04:37,012 --> 01:04:41,038
Yeah, that's close. You're close. But I feel like the

936
01:04:41,604 --> 01:04:47,345
web, though. is just really There's no way to stop

937
01:04:47,365 --> 01:04:53,058
a certain amount of ad fraud. and playback fraud. How

938
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:56,690
do you... How do you deal with that on something

939
01:04:56,892 --> 01:05:00,781
like... pod page in If you're selling ads against it,

940
01:05:00,821 --> 01:05:04,858
do you just discount? A certain amount of the traffic

941
01:05:04,898 --> 01:05:08,033
that you're unsure of. I mean. Yeah, I'm not sure

942
01:05:08,073 --> 01:05:11,902
how they do web analytics over there. But, you know,

943
01:05:12,243 --> 01:05:14,769
any of the audio advertising is going to come from

944
01:05:14,829 --> 01:05:19,568
Blueberry. Right. I really meant like on your side. like

945
01:05:19,609 --> 01:05:22,639
on your side. There's got to be a certain amount

946
01:05:22,679 --> 01:05:26,538
of traffic that you can't confirm. One way or another,

947
01:05:26,618 --> 01:05:28,705
if it's legit, you know, like how do you deal

948
01:05:28,745 --> 01:05:32,136
with the gray area traffic? Yeah, we have quite a

949
01:05:33,540 --> 01:05:40,441
filter system in our stats. Yeah. You know, we... block

950
01:05:40,481 --> 01:05:43,215
bots and, you know, and, you know, we'll see something.

951
01:05:43,255 --> 01:05:46,209
Oh, geez, look at this. We've got, you know, 40,000

952
01:05:46,270 --> 01:05:51,251
downloads from. From Chrome in New York. Okay, well that's

953
01:05:51,352 --> 01:05:55,471
obviously something going on there. um you know so you

954
01:05:55,491 --> 01:05:58,129
know it's a constant thing we've got you know one

955
01:05:58,169 --> 01:06:01,849
of our devs that's Basically, his main job is to

956
01:06:01,950 --> 01:06:09,010
monitor that stat system and, you know. Blockbots. Okay, it's

957
01:06:09,030 --> 01:06:12,428
good to hear you say that because I keep thinking

958
01:06:12,468 --> 01:06:15,974
that... Just from a, when I say it's good, I

959
01:06:15,994 --> 01:06:19,134
mean from just a personal level, because I'm like. I

960
01:06:19,155 --> 01:06:23,150
think... Sometimes that I'm like, okay, am I missing an

961
01:06:23,231 --> 01:06:26,540
easier way to do this? Because blocking bots feels like

962
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:30,090
a, literally a full-time job. Yeah. It's a whack-a-mole thing.

963
01:06:30,130 --> 01:06:32,818
You know, there's, they come up from time to time,

964
01:06:32,838 --> 01:06:35,605
you know, it's like, I've been dealing with the programmatic

965
01:06:35,726 --> 01:06:39,504
and. You know, whether do we pay this? person you

966
01:06:39,545 --> 01:06:43,131
know they have they they uploaded 10 episodes in one

967
01:06:43,192 --> 01:06:47,331
day And then it's constantly getting 5,000 hits a day

968
01:06:47,411 --> 01:06:51,822
or 5,000 downloads a day. Okay. And then I'll send

969
01:06:51,882 --> 01:06:54,368
an email and say, Hey, this doesn't really look legit.

970
01:06:54,408 --> 01:06:58,017
And all of a sudden, no traffic. Right. Yeah. It

971
01:06:58,037 --> 01:07:01,125
just disappears. Yeah, they just disappear. And, you know, we

972
01:07:01,145 --> 01:07:03,771
used to have a free trial, you know, where, oh,

973
01:07:03,872 --> 01:07:05,476
for a month, you don't have to give us a

974
01:07:05,556 --> 01:07:07,721
credit card or anything. You can spin up a podcast.

975
01:07:07,741 --> 01:07:10,187
Well, they'd spin up a podcast, sign up for programmatic,

976
01:07:10,248 --> 01:07:13,015
and then hit it with a bot farm. And, you

977
01:07:13,035 --> 01:07:14,461
know, so we had to get rid of that free

978
01:07:14,521 --> 01:07:17,172
trial thing. So you did get rid of the free

979
01:07:17,212 --> 01:07:21,933
trial. Interesting. There's a promo code free trial. So if

980
01:07:21,953 --> 01:07:25,144
you ask, we'll give you the promo code. But, you

981
01:07:25,184 --> 01:07:26,870
know, but you have to put your credit card in

982
01:07:26,930 --> 01:07:32,280
now. That was the differentiator. I gotcha. I gotcha. Now,

983
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:35,428
because that, I know that's been a big. Back and

984
01:07:35,468 --> 01:07:37,669
forth discussion that happens in a lot of the hosting

985
01:07:38,033 --> 01:07:44,076
world is. How lenient can you be? Because I know

986
01:07:44,096 --> 01:07:45,567
a lot of hosts feel like, well, if I get

987
01:07:45,608 --> 01:07:48,788
rid of my free trial, period, then... you know, it

988
01:07:48,808 --> 01:07:51,411
is going to hurt my, my sign up, my conversions

989
01:07:51,471 --> 01:07:53,735
and these kinds of things. But I. It sounds like

990
01:07:53,776 --> 01:07:56,437
y'all haven't, sounds like y'all thought the trade-off was worth

991
01:07:56,477 --> 01:08:01,245
it. Yeah, it... Again, you know, free is a lousy

992
01:08:01,305 --> 01:08:05,205
business model for what we're doing. For one thing, you

993
01:08:05,225 --> 01:08:07,435
know, look at, you know, look at the anchor when

994
01:08:07,496 --> 01:08:12,045
it started. You know, there was so many. Like, you

995
01:08:12,065 --> 01:08:14,822
know, they weren't fake or whatever, but there was, you

996
01:08:14,943 --> 01:08:18,217
know, hello world. And that was it. And you know,

997
01:08:18,238 --> 01:08:21,473
we just don't want to. deal with that. But we

998
01:08:21,513 --> 01:08:25,303
have a pretty low bar of entry. So people want

999
01:08:25,343 --> 01:08:28,912
to try us out. We're pretty easy going that way.

1000
01:08:29,193 --> 01:08:34,136
If it doesn't work, we'll help you move. How is

1001
01:08:34,177 --> 01:08:41,617
the company PT? P.T. Posts. post Todd. Oh, yeah. Okay.

1002
01:08:42,219 --> 01:08:45,446
Because that, we're doing good. The thing was, you know,

1003
01:08:45,467 --> 01:08:48,033
he was kind of our vision guy, you know, and,

1004
01:08:48,073 --> 01:08:51,280
and definitely he had his hands in a lot of

1005
01:08:51,321 --> 01:08:54,388
what we did. And so, you know, we've all kind

1006
01:08:54,448 --> 01:08:57,355
of stepped up and took over certain parts of it.

1007
01:08:57,967 --> 01:09:01,885
uh He did. Here's a question. And it's just a

1008
01:09:01,966 --> 01:09:07,570
question because... It's a question. Were there like issues like

1009
01:09:07,690 --> 01:09:11,300
passwords and stuff that nobody knew how it worked because

1010
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:16,393
Todd was in charge of it? Not as much. We

1011
01:09:16,454 --> 01:09:19,862
have Todd's son on staff. He's one of our developers,

1012
01:09:20,082 --> 01:09:22,206
and of course he had access to all that stuff

1013
01:09:22,306 --> 01:09:27,016
as well. So that, you know. Like a continuity question.

1014
01:09:27,256 --> 01:09:30,883
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Continuity of government. Now, the other thing

1015
01:09:30,903 --> 01:09:33,549
is, you know, we have implemented a lot more of

1016
01:09:33,749 --> 01:09:36,194
that, you know, because there are people on staff that

1017
01:09:36,655 --> 01:09:38,458
are the only ones that do a certain thing. So

1018
01:09:38,498 --> 01:09:41,394
now we're done. definitely cross training and, you know, you

1019
01:09:41,414 --> 01:09:44,251
know, payroll we've got now three people that can do

1020
01:09:44,311 --> 01:09:48,219
payroll where you know before that we only had one

1021
01:09:48,239 --> 01:09:51,806
it wasn't time but you know you got a you

1022
01:09:51,826 --> 01:09:53,489
know in a small outfit like that you got to

1023
01:09:53,529 --> 01:09:56,294
be careful with that kind of stuff you know and

1024
01:09:56,334 --> 01:09:59,801
we have you know a shared one pass account, one

1025
01:09:59,841 --> 01:10:03,591
password account that has a lot of the company related

1026
01:10:03,672 --> 01:10:08,925
stuff in it. These are uncomfortable but important discussions for

1027
01:10:08,966 --> 01:10:12,626
small businesses. Absolutely true. Because a lot of the hosting

1028
01:10:12,686 --> 01:10:14,718
world is small, is very small. I mean, there's a

1029
01:10:14,778 --> 01:10:18,078
lot of people who are one-man shops, two-man shops, three-man.

1030
01:10:18,098 --> 01:10:22,125
Dude, dude. When Dvorak went in for his... double bypass.

1031
01:10:22,753 --> 01:10:26,789
There was some panic. Yeah. Of course. No one knew

1032
01:10:26,849 --> 01:10:30,908
how to get into anything. Like, what are we doing?

1033
01:10:30,928 --> 01:10:35,836
We can't send out the newsletter. Wake him up. Yeah,

1034
01:10:37,028 --> 01:10:38,981
I mean, like one day I'll see. you the passwords

1035
01:10:39,041 --> 01:10:41,967
for get for uh for the linode you're never you're

1036
01:10:42,007 --> 01:10:44,873
never gonna send me that one one day i'll put

1037
01:10:44,913 --> 01:10:48,179
all my servers on the godcaster account but when when

1038
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:50,003
tina sees the bill she'll be like hey what is

1039
01:10:50,103 --> 01:10:53,790
all this yeah i guess one of the other things

1040
01:10:53,871 --> 01:11:00,490
that's changed at blueberry postod uh is We're now focusing

1041
01:11:00,650 --> 01:11:03,835
more on what we're good at and what we're interested

1042
01:11:03,895 --> 01:11:07,842
in doing versus trying to do everything. Right. So, you

1043
01:11:07,862 --> 01:11:12,249
know, this pod page deal was just one of those

1044
01:11:12,289 --> 01:11:16,296
things. We're not particularly good at web designs. So, you

1045
01:11:16,316 --> 01:11:18,405
know, why don't we give that to somebody that... does

1046
01:11:18,466 --> 01:11:22,206
it for a living. Good idea. and focus on what

1047
01:11:22,246 --> 01:11:25,096
we're good at. You know, we've got a couple other

1048
01:11:25,197 --> 01:11:27,746
products that are going to get shipped out to different

1049
01:11:27,786 --> 01:11:33,055
places. because, you know... You know, I don't want to

1050
01:11:33,095 --> 01:11:36,048
be in the business of worrying about what font is

1051
01:11:36,169 --> 01:11:39,142
on somebody's landing page. You know, I... I sent a

1052
01:11:39,162 --> 01:11:42,275
buddy of mine to you guys for your YouTube to

1053
01:11:42,415 --> 01:11:47,255
podcast feature. That is so good, man. I love that.

1054
01:11:47,835 --> 01:11:50,264
Yeah, and we're really going to be pushing that a

1055
01:11:50,385 --> 01:11:53,256
lot more because there's a lot of YouTubers out there

1056
01:11:53,316 --> 01:11:57,694
that their stuff would be great on audio. It's so

1057
01:11:57,754 --> 01:11:59,600
good because my friend, he was like, I'm going to

1058
01:11:59,620 --> 01:12:01,363
do a podcast. I said, what are you going to

1059
01:12:01,383 --> 01:12:02,987
do? I'm going to get it on YouTube. I'm like,

1060
01:12:03,007 --> 01:12:04,590
oh, okay, here we go. Now I got to talk

1061
01:12:04,650 --> 01:12:06,895
about this again. And I said, do me a favor,

1062
01:12:07,596 --> 01:12:10,382
sign up for this. And he did. And so this

1063
01:12:10,422 --> 01:12:13,168
called 10,000 miles, Vic Pepe. And I, and I, and

1064
01:12:13,248 --> 01:12:15,954
I always get the podcast. I'm so happy. Cause I,

1065
01:12:17,076 --> 01:12:19,681
I've known Vic since I was. you know, 26. I

1066
01:12:20,283 --> 01:12:21,625
don't need to see it. I saw that one come

1067
01:12:21,726 --> 01:12:24,571
in. Yeah. I don't need to see his face. So

1068
01:12:24,591 --> 01:12:26,174
I just want to listen, just want to listen to

1069
01:12:26,235 --> 01:12:29,160
you. And that's easier for me. And, and he's so

1070
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:30,924
happy because it was set and forget it. You know,

1071
01:12:30,944 --> 01:12:34,150
he doesn't, he sees a, a charge once a month.

1072
01:12:34,170 --> 01:12:37,056
He's like, Oh yeah, that's for Adam. But I think

1073
01:12:37,116 --> 01:12:39,365
actually he's doing quite well. I think. I think it

1074
01:12:39,385 --> 01:12:42,607
gets a lot of downloads. What's nice about the VidDapod

1075
01:12:42,667 --> 01:12:48,078
thing is... Vinterbar. For the users. You know, like, I

1076
01:12:48,441 --> 01:12:52,431
watch a lot of YouTube. That's probably my... You know,

1077
01:12:52,451 --> 01:12:54,380
if I say I'm going to watch TV, chances are

1078
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,349
it's going to be YouTube on the big screen, you

1079
01:12:56,369 --> 01:12:58,861
know, and, but you know, it's not, I'm not. talking

1080
01:12:58,901 --> 01:13:02,197
about watching a podcast and just watching a YouTube channel.

1081
01:13:02,921 --> 01:13:05,655
Yeah. And there's some of them that, you know, geez,

1082
01:13:05,735 --> 01:13:09,055
I'd like to really watch this. hour-long video but I

1083
01:13:09,095 --> 01:13:11,812
don't really have an hour. I'd rather have it on

1084
01:13:11,852 --> 01:13:15,286
my... phone stick the earbuds in and go do something

1085
01:13:15,326 --> 01:13:19,062
else while i'm consuming this content and That's the selling

1086
01:13:19,122 --> 01:13:24,132
point. Plus distribution. You're just on YouTube if you're just

1087
01:13:24,232 --> 01:13:28,059
on YouTube. That's right. You can distribute to 125 or

1088
01:13:28,099 --> 01:13:32,107
more other apps. Is that how many there are? How

1089
01:13:32,127 --> 01:13:36,576
many? 125? That's the best I can get. I've been

1090
01:13:36,636 --> 01:13:40,793
trying to figure that out. That's a lot. About 125

1091
01:13:40,853 --> 01:13:45,090
ways to listen to an audio podcast. Wow. That's pretty

1092
01:13:45,132 --> 01:13:47,808
good. You know, and then there's a certain subset of

1093
01:13:47,848 --> 01:13:50,139
those you can actually watch video, but I'm not the

1094
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:54,162
demographic to watch long form video on a phone. Just

1095
01:13:54,425 --> 01:13:57,328
before we run out of time pretty soon, I want

1096
01:13:57,348 --> 01:14:02,582
to welcome Leo Laporte. to Podcasting 2.0. welcome welcome leo

1097
01:14:02,803 --> 01:14:05,629
wow yeah yeah i heard he did chapters on something

1098
01:14:05,749 --> 01:14:11,321
chapters yeah yeah doing chapters that's right chapter transcript setting

1099
01:14:11,521 --> 01:14:13,285
never would do it never be a part of that

1100
01:14:13,405 --> 01:14:18,719
curry group person tag and the funding tag. You're French.

1101
01:14:18,791 --> 01:14:25,774
boom come on we're fringe i'm happy i'm happy he's

1102
01:14:25,814 --> 01:14:28,684
doing that and i hope that certainly the funding tag

1103
01:14:28,704 --> 01:14:31,993
i hope that helps him That does well for him.

1104
01:14:32,013 --> 01:14:34,144
Dave, did you want to do anything with these clips

1105
01:14:34,184 --> 01:14:35,833
you had? Do you want to push those to the

1106
01:14:35,893 --> 01:14:38,059
next show? What do you want to do? Uh, we

1107
01:14:38,100 --> 01:14:39,654
can try, we can, yeah, we can- Flip it over

1108
01:14:39,675 --> 01:14:41,871
to the next show. That's fine. Okay. That's not a

1109
01:14:41,891 --> 01:14:47,376
problem. Yeah, that's fine. We can do that next week.

1110
01:14:47,396 --> 01:14:51,609
Okay. I'm just looking at the time. Should we thank

1111
01:14:51,629 --> 01:14:54,137
some people here? Then we'll have a few more minutes

1112
01:14:54,197 --> 01:14:57,948
left with Mike. Yeah, sure. Sounds good. Oh, Sam Sethi

1113
01:14:58,150 --> 01:15:02,211
actually comes in. as we serve thousands of listening hours

1114
01:15:02,312 --> 01:15:06,384
per week. We stream all MP3, MP4, or HLS content.

1115
01:15:06,425 --> 01:15:09,033
We can then measure the actual plays, total listen time.

1116
01:15:09,414 --> 01:15:11,200
We also know if an ad was played and for

1117
01:15:11,260 --> 01:15:15,565
how long. We have first-party data for all apps. He's

1118
01:15:15,585 --> 01:15:18,820
looking at this from a hosting perspective. He would, that's...

1119
01:15:18,799 --> 01:15:25,383
I always forget they're double. That's happening a lot, Mike.

1120
01:15:25,899 --> 01:15:32,411
We're seeing apps becoming hosting companies. Yeah, there's all kinds

1121
01:15:32,472 --> 01:15:36,951
of competition coming in, and I guess I understand it.

1122
01:15:36,991 --> 01:15:39,483
If you have both ends of it, that's... even better

1123
01:15:39,543 --> 01:15:41,315
if you got that if you have an app and

1124
01:15:41,355 --> 01:15:44,227
you have hosting you can do even more One time

1125
01:15:44,288 --> 01:15:46,363
we were thinking about making an app. I'm going to

1126
01:15:46,383 --> 01:15:48,639
make you guys so rich. I'm going to make you

1127
01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:52,735
all so rich. Well, good. Stick with me. Stick with

1128
01:15:52,755 --> 01:15:58,420
the Adam Accords. Success will bring us together. Let's see.

1129
01:15:58,399 --> 01:16:03,371
We had Martin Lindeskog with 1776's Freedom Boost. Laissez faire.

1130
01:16:03,752 --> 01:16:07,521
Let the market decide. I will continue podcasting without regular

1131
01:16:07,682 --> 01:16:10,027
ads. I have no problem listening to ads or skipping

1132
01:16:10,067 --> 01:16:13,175
them, but I will not be joining the secret group.

1133
01:16:13,915 --> 01:16:17,028
You're welcome to join the Adam Accords. It's going to

1134
01:16:17,250 --> 01:16:20,025
be fun. three, three, two, one, and one, two, three,

1135
01:16:20,046 --> 01:16:22,373
four, all with test boots. And he says the bat

1136
01:16:22,393 --> 01:16:26,728
signal has been received. We have a Amsterdam boomer, seven

1137
01:16:26,748 --> 01:16:33,588
51. Uhhhh... Coming in with 91 sats from Fountain. Miss

1138
01:16:33,608 --> 01:16:36,043
you guys. Hope you're back tomorrow. Well, here we are.

1139
01:16:36,463 --> 01:16:43,397
And then thank you, user. or 940-187-348888328 if found. change

1140
01:16:43,457 --> 01:16:48,423
it for your $64.97, probably about $65. The fountain is

1141
01:16:48,484 --> 01:16:51,801
doing weird with their numbers. I'm not sure what they're

1142
01:16:51,841 --> 01:16:56,082
sending out weird numbers. I'm sure this 91 sass was

1143
01:16:56,163 --> 01:16:59,845
probably 100. I'm not sure why that's happening. Fuzzy math?

1144
01:17:00,309 --> 01:17:01,579
I don't know what it is. And then I hit

1145
01:17:01,620 --> 01:17:03,475
the delimiter. So Dave, what do you have on your

1146
01:17:03,515 --> 01:17:08,127
list? We've got some PayPal's here. We've got Timothy voice.

1147
01:17:09,059 --> 01:17:13,037
$10. Thank you, Timothy. Appreciate it. Oh, here's a one-off.

1148
01:17:13,177 --> 01:17:19,353
Here's a $61.64 from Patrick Bomer. Ooh. I onboarded way

1149
01:17:19,434 --> 01:17:22,761
back by mention from Adam, probably on no agenda since

1150
01:17:22,842 --> 01:17:25,087
I learned a lot and like to support your good

1151
01:17:25,147 --> 01:17:29,638
work. Love the technical exploration Dave does too. Patrick Bomer,

1152
01:17:29,878 --> 01:17:37,234
it's B-O... B-O-M-L-O-T-M-E-R. Even the Dutch government can't do it

1153
01:17:37,274 --> 01:17:44,741
right. How do you pronounce it? You don't. You just

1154
01:17:44,781 --> 01:17:48,821
say, hey, Patrick, how you doing? Okay. Thanks, Patrick. Appreciate

1155
01:17:49,263 --> 01:17:58,440
it. Uh, uh, let's see. Oh. Buzzsprout. Thousand bucks. Blaze

1156
01:17:58,681 --> 01:18:02,108
on the Impala. Thank you, boys and girls of Buzzsprout.

1157
01:18:02,208 --> 01:18:04,432
It's the big hosting companies who support us. Big and

1158
01:18:04,493 --> 01:18:06,717
small, I should say. Lots of hosting companies support us.

1159
01:18:07,058 --> 01:18:09,423
And just wait until these apps start making hundreds of

1160
01:18:09,503 --> 01:18:11,788
thousands of dollars a year thanks to the Adam Accords.

1161
01:18:11,848 --> 01:18:16,683
We will be remembering you. We will keep you in

1162
01:18:16,763 --> 01:18:22,658
mind. We will. We'll keep you in mind. The Adam

1163
01:18:22,678 --> 01:18:26,301
Accords. I'm telling you. It's a thing. It's going nowhere

1164
01:18:26,341 --> 01:18:34,179
fast. Jorge Hernandez, $5. Thank you, Jorge. Michael Goggin, $5.

1165
01:18:34,823 --> 01:18:41,748
Cohen Glotzbach, five bucks. Thank you, Cohen. Christopher Reamer, $10.

1166
01:18:42,009 --> 01:18:47,497
Thank you, Christopher. James Sullivan, $10. Randall Black. Hey, Randy.

1167
01:18:48,039 --> 01:18:51,814
Five bucks. Thank you. Drebscott, $15. Thank you, Dreb. Thank

1168
01:18:51,834 --> 01:18:59,710
you, Dreb. Chris Bernardick, five bucks. Michael Kimmerer, $5.33. Charles

1169
01:18:59,791 --> 01:19:03,727
Hicks, five bucks. And that's our PayPal group. We got.

1170
01:19:04,051 --> 01:19:06,623
I've only seen, I only see one Boostergram and that's

1171
01:19:06,643 --> 01:19:09,114
from CSB. Oh, okay. Well, that's the one. Well, we

1172
01:19:09,155 --> 01:19:11,726
were gone last week, so I guess people just said,

1173
01:19:11,746 --> 01:19:14,710
screw those guys. We shot ourselves in the foot. Big

1174
01:19:14,731 --> 01:19:17,589
time. Uh, that is, let's see, it comes from a

1175
01:19:17,609 --> 01:19:22,761
bar of 20,000. sets Through Fountain, he says, Howdy Dave

1176
01:19:22,781 --> 01:19:28,787
and Adam. Please go to youtube.com slash at AI-ArchWizard and

1177
01:19:28,847 --> 01:19:33,061
watch the latest 50 minutes long video. It's my interview

1178
01:19:33,101 --> 01:19:38,019
with Andrew Gromit. Adam's Pal from Mevio Podshow Times, where...

1179
01:19:37,999 --> 01:19:41,206
Andrew is showing how to yield force of vibe coding

1180
01:19:41,287 --> 01:19:46,579
like Yoda to the max. Yo, CSB. He somehow wrangled

1181
01:19:46,719 --> 01:19:50,307
Andrew into an episode. Yes, and we should correct him

1182
01:19:50,368 --> 01:19:53,354
by saying that Andrew was not just from... I hired

1183
01:19:53,395 --> 01:19:57,063
him as the first hire at MeVio, a pod show.

1184
01:19:57,387 --> 01:20:00,244
because I'd worked with him in the early days on

1185
01:20:00,304 --> 01:20:05,694
the iPod-er stuff. He goes way back before Mevio. Does

1186
01:20:05,735 --> 01:20:09,691
he go back to on-ramp? No, he doesn't go back

1187
01:20:09,731 --> 01:20:12,379
to on-ramp, but no. But he goes back to the

1188
01:20:12,440 --> 01:20:15,188
very first days. And who were the guys who did

1189
01:20:15,268 --> 01:20:18,780
the iPod or X? One guy was in Australia. I

1190
01:20:18,801 --> 01:20:23,543
think, or New Zealand. I forget who they were. There

1191
01:20:23,563 --> 01:20:26,342
was a couple people. Grumet, you know, we work really

1192
01:20:26,382 --> 01:20:30,083
well together. I always enjoyed working with Andrew. We did.

1193
01:20:30,695 --> 01:20:34,472
We had something called the Golden Ticket. Oh, yeah, you've

1194
01:20:34,512 --> 01:20:41,668
told me about that. Which predates... Uh... ad insertion. where

1195
01:20:42,032 --> 01:20:45,182
we would have a promotion across the net across network

1196
01:20:45,222 --> 01:20:49,715
promotion I bet you that's what the Amp Accords, I

1197
01:20:49,735 --> 01:20:51,761
bet you that's what they're going to reveal. It's a

1198
01:20:52,282 --> 01:20:58,819
golden ticket. It's been 12 months of Podhemian Grove secrecy.

1199
01:20:58,799 --> 01:21:04,512
Hemian Grove. Oh, man. Oh, Dave. Oh, man. Now, if

1200
01:21:05,133 --> 01:21:08,300
CSB is going to be doing 50-minute interviews on YouTube,

1201
01:21:08,401 --> 01:21:10,726
he needs to be on VidDapod so he can listen

1202
01:21:10,746 --> 01:21:13,712
to it. No kidding. Yeah, for real. Yeah, really. Come

1203
01:21:13,813 --> 01:21:20,676
on, CSB. Support the blueberries. Mike, we're... Was Blueberry consulted

1204
01:21:20,736 --> 01:21:25,870
by the Ampicords? No, we were not. Oh, shock, shock.

1205
01:21:25,890 --> 01:21:29,017
This is an outrage, I tell you. A stunning revelation.

1206
01:21:30,982 --> 01:21:36,053
Well, you know, Lipson's really, you know, since they got

1207
01:21:36,113 --> 01:21:39,019
into the advertising side of things, you know, they're not.

1208
01:21:39,699 --> 01:21:42,304
They're not what they used to be. Is Libsyn a

1209
01:21:42,364 --> 01:21:45,851
podcast hosting company anymore or are they just an advertising

1210
01:21:45,931 --> 01:21:48,457
agency? I had somebody ask me that on the phone

1211
01:21:48,517 --> 01:21:53,206
earlier today. I said, yeah, they're still around. No, I'm

1212
01:21:53,266 --> 01:21:55,691
serious. It's a serious question. Yeah, you can still go

1213
01:21:55,731 --> 01:22:00,386
over there and get your $20 account or whatever. Do

1214
01:22:00,406 --> 01:22:04,424
a podcast. But I don't think that's their focus. Yeah,

1215
01:22:04,504 --> 01:22:07,470
it sounds like that's an, it sounds like that's like

1216
01:22:07,491 --> 01:22:09,795
a, what do they call those things that are like

1217
01:22:09,876 --> 01:22:14,646
your appendix? An appendix. No, no, but I mean like

1218
01:22:14,766 --> 01:22:18,053
a vestigial organ. It's a vestigial organ. Well, Rob and

1219
01:22:18,153 --> 01:22:23,106
Elsie left there. Side gig. Rob and Elsie left there

1220
01:22:23,206 --> 01:22:26,873
and now they're at Captivate. Congratulations to them. Are they

1221
01:22:26,933 --> 01:22:32,343
both there? Yeah. Rob's over there and Elsie. I don't

1222
01:22:32,383 --> 01:22:34,888
know. There's still a couple people over at Libsyn that

1223
01:22:34,948 --> 01:22:37,392
I know, but that's it. I used to know everybody

1224
01:22:37,432 --> 01:22:40,317
that worked there. Here's my final pitch. I've just been

1225
01:22:40,398 --> 01:22:44,542
sitting here. my creative juices. You're right, Dave. I am

1226
01:22:44,562 --> 01:22:51,451
a perpetually optimistic, happy guy. I really am. My pitch

1227
01:22:51,511 --> 01:22:55,243
would be, and this is something, I mean, maybe Sam

1228
01:22:55,283 --> 01:23:00,842
Sethi could organize it. I'm very bad at organizing. If

1229
01:23:00,883 --> 01:23:03,842
we all get together. And we just, and it can

1230
01:23:03,862 --> 01:23:06,518
be done, it can literally be done on the mastodon.

1231
01:23:06,538 --> 01:23:10,934
It's not that hard. In Davos? What's that? In Davos?

1232
01:23:10,954 --> 01:23:12,821
Is that where we're going to meet? Well, we will

1233
01:23:12,861 --> 01:23:15,972
eventually all meet in Davos, of course. We're going to

1234
01:23:15,992 --> 01:23:20,528
be so big. all the app developers get together and

1235
01:23:20,548 --> 01:23:23,463
we say, okay, here's, here's the pieces of data that

1236
01:23:23,483 --> 01:23:25,868
we're going to make available. And here's what we want

1237
01:23:25,928 --> 01:23:29,014
in return. We want this percent of your ad buy.

1238
01:23:29,074 --> 01:23:32,520
And we're going to give you exactly exact numbers, tell

1239
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,165
you who heard the ads. And we're going to have

1240
01:23:35,185 --> 01:23:39,253
extra tiers where we talk to our customers, our users

1241
01:23:39,714 --> 01:23:41,858
and tell them, you know, and we'll work out something

1242
01:23:41,878 --> 01:23:44,823
with them. Think about that. I mean, this is totally

1243
01:23:44,864 --> 01:23:47,489
the reverse Sats model. Yeah, we're going to give you,

1244
01:23:47,529 --> 01:23:49,493
and you know what? Give them Sats. Give them stable

1245
01:23:49,533 --> 01:23:52,559
coin, whatever you want. Pay them easy in the app.

1246
01:23:52,579 --> 01:23:55,846
It doesn't have to be a lot of administration. If

1247
01:23:55,886 --> 01:23:58,812
you give us your name or some other personal details,

1248
01:23:59,273 --> 01:24:03,518
people will do this. They don't care. and especially don't

1249
01:24:03,558 --> 01:24:06,288
care if they know they can make some money. Be

1250
01:24:06,328 --> 01:24:09,037
honest with them. Be open. It'll work. Everyone will be

1251
01:24:09,118 --> 01:24:12,550
happy. I guarantee you we will have a summit. We're

1252
01:24:12,570 --> 01:24:15,709
going to do the summit in Alaska. where the amp

1253
01:24:15,729 --> 01:24:18,946
accords and the atom accords will meet on the tarmac

1254
01:24:19,530 --> 01:24:26,337
we will We'll be coming in with a DC3. We'll

1255
01:24:26,397 --> 01:24:31,404
all fall out of this thing like a clown car.

1256
01:24:32,105 --> 01:24:37,953
Full of cash. Full of cash. Just pallets of cash.

1257
01:24:38,053 --> 01:24:42,119
Pallets of cash, exactly. We're ready. We're here for the...

1258
01:24:42,099 --> 01:24:46,789
chords we're good to go so yeah somehow some ac10s

1259
01:24:46,849 --> 01:24:50,997
get bought i don't know a couple of groundhog no

1260
01:24:51,037 --> 01:25:00,276
problem we're opening the straights yeah we'll bring in the

1261
01:25:00,316 --> 01:25:04,399
davos girls it's gonna be for so much fun. We're

1262
01:25:04,419 --> 01:25:06,905
going to get Spurlock high. I mean, it's going to

1263
01:25:06,965 --> 01:25:11,756
be great. Mike, your name is going to be on

1264
01:25:11,836 --> 01:25:15,945
Wikipedia as one of the members of the Adam Accords

1265
01:25:16,066 --> 01:25:19,293
that opened up the Straits of Podcasting. There you go.

1266
01:25:20,055 --> 01:25:22,405
All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much. This has been

1267
01:25:22,465 --> 01:25:26,379
one of the more enjoyable episodes. Mike, thank you for

1268
01:25:26,459 --> 01:25:30,469
contributing. Loved it very much. Boardroom went silent. They basically

1269
01:25:30,529 --> 01:25:33,678
went, uh, whoa, what? They're like, these guys are off

1270
01:25:33,738 --> 01:25:36,846
the rails. They just left. They were confused, I'm sure.

1271
01:25:36,866 --> 01:25:39,453
Yeah, very much so. All right, everybody, we'll be back

1272
01:25:39,513 --> 01:25:41,819
next week to bring you another board meeting where the

1273
01:25:41,799 --> 01:25:44,576
Fun is always to be had right here on Podcasting

1274
01:25:44,597 --> 01:26:04,529
2.0. See you then, everybody. Bye-bye. You have been listening

1275
01:26:04,589 --> 01:26:13,223
to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information. Go podcasting!

1276
01:26:14,187 --> 01:26:16,104
is actually Pain in the butt.