Episode 261: Podhemian Grove

0:00 Podcasting 2.0 for May 29th, 2026, episode 261, Podhemian Grove. Well, we are back. Just one week off. Hello, everybody. Welcome to Podcasting 2.0. This is where it all goes down. The boardroom, the board meeting where we talk about all things podcasting, everything that's We are in fact the only boardroom that actually knows what a podcast is. I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who checks all his package managers daily. Say hello to my friend on the other end, the one, the only Podsage Dave! Maybe not all of them. No, you should be checking every single one. Every single one! I don't see the pot, the live. I don't see the live bot. Well, I pinged the pod. Hmm. Podcasts live at podcastindex.social. Oh, we are not. No. Hold on a second. It shows nothing. Let me see what's going on here. Let me see. Let me see. Okay, here we are. Debugging the show already.

1:16 Let me check. That's half of our show. We're live. I have a good. I'm pretty sure I have. You know what? Is it bad if I regenerate the GUID even if I've already done a new one? For the live Adam? Yeah. No, go ahead. Okay, did it again. Okay, save, publish. Publish. sending to server successfully, and then I'll just... Uh... I'll just hit this again. 22. Oops, hold on. Eleven. Going live. Sam Sethi says we are live. All right. Well, if Sam says it, then we are live. I mean, we're. streaming hello boardroom i agree with that because sam's products have the most stringent rss feed requirements in the in the universe so you can't you cannot sneak anything past Even legitimate stuff sometimes you can't sneak past. Although there was something with the payment metadata that was... off. payment metadata? Yeah, there was... Oh, I need to fire up my... For true fans, you mean? Yeah, there was something. And I've been seeing it, too. It was like something was... You know, you'd have to resolve the metadata in Helipad. Yeah, who knows? Is someone sending invalid data? I don't know. It's amazing, any of this stuff. works at all, to be honest about it. Hold on, let me see. Where's my, where my helipad at? Where my helipad, helipad, helipad? That bears repeating,

2:48 honestly. What? It's amazing that any of this stuff works at all? Yeah. It's the God honest truth, man. I'm always amazed. I'm like... Yeah. Yeah. But people get so. I'm mad. jaded. It doesn't work me! Well... A lot of things don't work. Yes, no kidding. My first and second marriage being great examples of that. I was restricting my comments to just the technology sphere. I'm sorry. But I mean, that's all, you know, feel free. All right. Feel free. The helipad is up and rolling, so that looks good. Okay. Captain Sweatpants says that tiles.podping.org shows that.

3:33 The pod pings are going through. There must be something wrong with Spurlock's bot. Well, the live bot, the lit bot in the... in the boardroom has registered us as live, so that should be good. Spurbot. Spurbot is broken. Spurbot. The spur bot. Is that an actual name? The spur bot? It is now. How you been, brother? Sorry about last Friday. No, it's fine. Where'd y'all go? Nashville? Yeah, for the, uh... for the big K-Love Awards fan weekend. Yeah, which people, a lot of people... will not know what that is and I'm not entirely clear what that is. So K-Love is a ministry they bought up pretty much every single Christian contemporary music radio station in the country and simulcast one signal now to all of them. That sounds like a thing that happens a lot and is never good for anybody. Yeah, well, exactly. It's removed all local radio, which is, you know, why there's, for some reason, I have a feeling that someone's trying to do something about that. What is that company called?

4:40 um I know what you're talking about. So they're in Nashville where all the writers are, the musicians, most of them, that is. And so, you know, they're all kind of beholden to K-Love. So K-Love has a concert Friday night in the Gaylord Hotel at the Biodome, which is pretty cool because the big ballroom holds probably two and a half. 3,000 people. And the sound is good and they got screens. And my favorite, the words are on the screen so you can sing along. Have a bouncing ball. No. It should though, that's kind of funny. And then they have writers round. round tables, you know, the writers talk about the song and the story behind it, which is unfortunately a lot of, actually I talked about this with Pastor Jimmy on We Get to Do This on today's show. A lot of it's like, well, you know, my sister died, I got cancer, I backed up over my dog, you know, it's like. Eh eh. In fact, the whole weekend was ashes to beauty. I'm like, ugh. Where's the joy in the Lord when things are going great? Yeah, it was a little depressing. Well, that's very 2026, honestly. Yeah, totally straight up. And then Sunday they had Levi. Lusko, who's a... He was from Los Angeles. He was in the music entertainment business. He became a pastor in Montana, of all places. He's got a pretty big church there. And he's a young guy, you know, great, great sermon. And, you know, then, of course,

6:14 Elevation Worship. And then Sunday night is the big... like a proper award show from the Grand Old Opry. It airs tonight on TBN. And if you are into the Kalshi and Polymarket, CeCe Winans will be the Artist of the Year, so you can go and bet on that right now. Polymarket, are you... Former Google employee? No, I was at the show, so I know who won. So you can go bet on it. I guarantee you she'll win. I'm not actually supposed to say that. We're all sworn to secrecy. Yeah, but there's no NDA, so you're good. Correct. Correct. So, yeah, so actually it was really nice, but I just completely spaced. I'm like, oh, man, we're supposed to do the show. And it was crazy.

7:07 We were so busy, but my robot has been working so well on my show prep. And with that, I say. so well because Here's my observation all things AI. I'm sure you have this. It doesn't matter if you're doing code, show prep, editing clips, whatever you're using your robot for. There is. very little Consistency? Reproducibility and iteration. So if you, if I had an intern. And I said, intern, look at this list and make clips of every single URL. The intern, once they figured out how to do it, they would do it. And they'd just be making clips. Yeah. 40% of the time. The robot will go, well... You know, I didn't think you needed a clip of that because you talked about that three shows ago. And so I just skipped it. And, you know, yeah, I know I have knitter to get the X videos, but it wasn't up. So I decided to just let it go. So that's the consistency part. Reproducibility.

8:17 This is my favorite. Everybody can do this. Go to your favorite robot and type in, show me a house with a chimney and a cat in the window and a dog in the yard. And then get the picture and then do the exact same prompt and see that it's a completely different picture. Yeah, on a fresh session. On a fresh session. Iterating is my favorite. And you can do this with images. I do it with clips like, hey, could you just take that last word off? And then it does something completely different. Hey, I love this picture. Could you just make your hair blue? Sure. It'll make the hair blue and the sky a different color and the grass will be gone. It'll be cement. Yes. So the intelligence part of AI is non-existent. So it is a great tool. You just have to be on top of it all the time. I literally... I have this great little bit for credits. So while no agenda, end of show, mix is running, I say go into the spreadsheet and... Actually, we created a code word, credits, all uppercase. It should know what to do because it has its memory MD files, knows exactly what to do. And then yesterday, it just puts one person exec, all the rest of the associate exec with the numbers they donated and their titles and their jingle requests. Like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Oh, yeah, you're right. No, I have a memory file about this. It won't happen again. Let me take a note of that so it won't happen again. Well, this is bull crap. It'll happen again and again and again. So

9:51 this is going to create. So I am more productive. This is completely true. I am more productive. I do spend a lot of my time correcting it, but I'm a lot more productive. I can live more and show prep less. Um... It's not going to replace any, it's not even going to replace an intern. An intern would be better at this point and cheaper because interns should, you know, I would pay $200 a month for an intern to do all the work. I can't find one. So it's only going to create more jobs and everything is vastly overvalued. There you go. That is your report from Boots on the Ground from Adam Curry. So... I wish I could give you... Let me ask you a question. Do you see these same issues when using robots for coding? Oh, well, so yes and no. The For to back you up, though. first of all. um In the financial world. you The futurologists and the permanent conference speaker class, they're still infatuated with AI. And they're making tons of money talking about it. Yes. Travelling around to conferences saying how AI is... future and it's going to replace everybody's job. But on boots on the ground within

11:24 the financial world, that is the reality is beginning to set in. And it is that you give. is the thing that you most need help with. Like. This is a... 150 page document that I need to get some information out of but I don't want to have to read the whole thing in order to find these bits of information. You can't, there is absolutely no. um way to end on the output. of what it tells you. Right. If you say, if you say, um, you know, if you ask some questions about what's in this document.

12:08 You don't know whether it gave you the right answer, but if you go and check... You can be assured that at least 50% of the time... It is wrong. It's the wrong answer. It is wrong. And I have documented examples of this from... from people. Because what's happening is you've, I think the people who are actually building things with inference. What people have realized is the inference itself... is not enough. I like how you say inference where I say inference. Is it inference? Well, I think I say that because you say that I have to infer, you know, that somebody inferred something. It makes you sound very smart. I'm going to try it. Inference. Well, in that way, it reflects reality. I'm also wearing little round glasses. Oh, like Ben Franklin glasses? Cool. No, I'm not. you have to the reality has set in that you have to build guardrail systems around these things. And what you really have to do is you have to build software. that does the thing you want it to do. And then you bring in little bits of inference at certain aspects of the pipeline. Right. Right. To do things. If you just give a chat. bot or or

13:39 an or an agent if you just give it something and let it run you're going to get wildly different and hallucinated results. Yeah. Yeah. All the time. All the time. So I, the main. The main tool I use is Whisper. And I use it on together.ai so I can... whisper. a Rogan podcast and pull something out very quick. I mean, it's amazing because, you know, you're... pumping up a huge GPU and it just goes so fast. And... And so I use this for clips and I'll say, all right, go listen to this. five-hour Senate session.

14:20 find things that are in that are you know on my list of things of interest and then pull clips And. And it would... It would do this with varying variable success. And then I had this brilliant idea, and this kind of folds in what you're saying. I said, do you test your work? No. So, well, when you do code. Don't you do a test if the code works? Yes, it's called a unit test. Oh, all right. So whenever you pull a clip, do a unit test to make sure that you don't have a dangling word at the end, a little blip of audio. And that really improved it by 100%. by telling it to treat what I'm doing as code. And it got us. Yeah.

15:05 Yeah, that's the only way that any of this works. Yeah. So like things like It's that classic example of... Why? how An agent like Claude Code can tell you... can build an entire like html page but it with javascript things running in it, but it can't tell you how many letters there are in the, how many letter R's are in the word strawberry. Because there's like, It doesn't understand a way. I'm trying to be very careful of my language. It has no mechanism in the harness.

15:49 to test those sorts of things. Right, right, right, right, right. The only way that... You have to tell us to do a dictionary lookup. to test it. Well, what? No, that will actually because because anything that has if you're asking a question. that the agent doesn't already know a pattern of language for. then there's no way that you'll ever get out of the model that thing that you want. So what you have to, the only way it can work. and get it right every single time, is if you ask how many letter R's are in the word strawberry, if it builds a Python script, and actually runs code to check. the presence of the number of the letter R. That's the only way it works.

16:43 And it's not doing that all the time because it's too costly. You can't. I got no time to build a Python script. I'm just going to tell you. That's why it's terrible at math. Yeah. Because every time you ask it a math question, it would have to go. and create a piece of code that runs the math to tell you the answer to the math because it there's no can't do it it can't it can't do it so it can't do it i know you brought clips and i and i want to bring you back to them so that we're not just all about the this week in ai you We're going to, I'm going to ask you a question that I'm going to ask the book of knowledge. The same question. And that question is very, it's a hot topic today, hot topic. Because there's an entire industry, the entire podcast industry I'm reading.

17:38 No one asked you, no one asked me, no one even asked James Cridland. What is a podcast? You're asking, this is a question that's being posed to me. I'm asking you, what is a podcast? um To me, a podcast is... Media distributed. over some sort of open protocol. Ooh, you took the some sort of path. That's interesting. I don't want to restrict it to just our sense. I like that. I like it. Shall we ask the book of knowledge? Oh, Lord, yes. Book of Knowledge. What is a podcast? According to the Book of Knowledge, a podcast is a digital audio program made available on the internet for downloading or streaming. typically released in episodes and often focusing on specific topics or themes. Modern podcasts can be accessed through various platforms and applications, allowing listeners to subscribe and receive new episodes automatically. Thus, It has been written. did not bring in the open protocol part. To me, that's what the... The reason it has to be some sort of open protocol. RSS or I would even

19:11 say if even if it's just on a website that you can watch for free or distribute for free. I just feel like... I feel like the most critical part is the distribution. I'm with you on the distribution. But I'm sure you also saw the big news. Big news. about YouTube and Spotify and... Who else is in this group? You talking about amp? Amp, yes, amp. The Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting. Let's see who was in this. Oxford Road started this up. Your buddy, Dan. Yeah, I like Dan. Spotify. Better help. *laughs* DraftKings. Okay. Shocker. Shocker.

19:58 tell you guys what a gambling app is if you can tell them what a podcast United Talent Agency Flight Story Libsyn Sirius XM and Podscribe Yeah, it's... Yeah, it's... My favorite part of this whole thing was... You. They, quote, emerged from secret. That's how podcasting was built, baby. In secret. Anytime somebody emerges from secret in the world of podcasting, you can go jump off a cliff. I'm not interested in anything you have to say. Rob Greenlee.

20:40 is uh is delighting in all this in the in the secret uh whatsapp group he posts The term podcast is really now defined by the audience now. That is a challenging reality. Whatever meaning we as an industry apply to the term podcast. will just be for the business side of things now. I think the hard truth is that consumption platforms and the users of those platforms now control the meaning of podcasts. The terms creator economy and new media are becoming the top of the funnel now. Podcasts or podcasting are... part of those terms. We have hard choices to make here. We are now victims of our success. I also wonder why the IAB is not involved in this group. Well, I'll tell you because this is not about podcasting. This is about advertising money. And they say so. And that's the thing that... I love Rob, but he misses this point every single time. is I remember just Todd going round and round with him on the new media show about this. I miss Todd in this moment. Todd, it would have been so great to have you here. I'm going to kill you. I miss him. I miss him. It just is. He just misses, he forgets, and many people do this. It's not just Rob. Many people do this in the podcasting world.

22:12 They forget that like 90% of podcasts... Don't make a dime off advertising. Yes. They just do it. for either just purely the fun of it, just for marketing, or just for donations and buy me a coffee and stuff. Send me some pickles. Yeah. Advertising is actually... Pain in the butt. You know what I mean? Like, you have to bill, you have to handle all the stuff, you gotta bill it out, you gotta wait months to get paid. It's a thing that a lot of people just don't. Unless you're making significant revenue, it's really not worth even trying. And it's so much easier to do pay.

22:59 Patreon or... Um... boosts or anything like that. It's just got to be PayPal donations or anything because the advertising route is such a pain. And then you have these guys coming out of the woodworks, out of the secret. Out of the secret. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, we're going to tell you how all you need to change podcasting in order to make all this stuff better. I don't even think they're doing that. I think they're just trying to say, hey. We're podcasts and we want some of that podcast budget. That's all this is about.

23:39 Yeah. And perhaps it's even worse. I think it's even worse. We're a podcast, but we belong in your new media budget. I think that's really what it, because the real money, the podcasting money is good, but apparently billions and billions. But the true new media, Google, etc. money, YouTube money, is much, much bigger. So I believe I should probably ask Dan Granger about it. I like Dan and we have. We should have Dan on the show. You know, that's a good idea. He always wants me to come into like, hey, I'm at South. I couldn't actually do it, but I probably didn't want to do it anyway. Like, I'm at South by Southwest. We're going to have a panel about what is a podcast. I'm like, oh, man, I'm sorry. I got something else to do, which I really did. I got to wash my hair. I got to go poke my eye out. But that's truly the issue here is that. The podcast people want more money. from other new media budgets. But... They know, and this is why IAB was not invited, they know that they really don't have a good metric. for measuring success. And so I think it's twofold. It's one, how do we come up with a standard way of measuring? a podcast and you know by not inviting any

25:10 other podcast app. to the table, you're showing your cards. Yeah, Paul said that this morning. He was like, he was like the fact. that on this secret group there's only one the only podcast app that's listed is spotify that tells you everything you need to know yeah They're not interested in any traditional podcast app. I mean, even just to make it look better, throw Pocket Castle in there. Somebody. But no. Yeah. I'm trying to... Did they actually say we... came out of secret is that what they said that's what james said i'm looking maybe him being snarky but uh that's i'm looking at this article He says, uh... um Let's see. Conveined amp assembling a brain trust of 12 voting members. Voting member parties. to address an urgent need for radical change. Here it is.

26:08 Brought together by Oxford Road, the group. The group, including voting members from Spotify, United Talent Agency, SiriusXM, DraftKings, Lipson, and others, have been working in secret since last summer. Driven by what it calls industry-wide confusion. Both, and this is their industry-wide confusion. Both a lack of standardized metrics and disagreement about where podcasts end and social videos begin. Yeah. This is not. If anybody thinks that what is going to come out of this... Is some new way to actually measure podcast Impressions better? That's not what this is because there is no way to do that. It is impossible. This is great. The Amp Accords website. It's like the Abraham Accords. for dumb videos. Amphicords. Was it signed at Camp David? A billion dollars of demand is sitting on the sidelines. It's about the money. Which is why leading platforms, advertisers, publishers, and creators have come together to create the first podcast. Podcasting Measurement Framework. There it is. Yeah, and it's going to start, I can already tell you, it's going to start with... first party data.

27:27 Yeah. Yeah. That's what it's going to start with. It's going to say everybody's going to have to have a login and we're going to, you know, blah, blah, blah. Well, here it is. The AMP Accords. The AMP Accords. Is Trump a part of this? the ampicord. Three goals. The Amp Accords target the measurement gaps holding podcasting back across open RSS, closed platforms, buying, selling, and attribution. Number one, standardize impression metrics, defining the units that all major platforms can map to, major platforms. to develop cross-platform performance measurement. Buzzword! create an inconsistent attribution method acceptable to open RSS and closed systems. Oh, they're throwing us a bone.

28:09 Three, define podcast. agreeing on a universal classification for industry sizing, buying, selling, and measurement. So the developer cross-platform creating a consistent attribution method acceptable to open RSS and closed platforms Can't do it. No, it's... It's not possible. It's inherent. Thank you. Follow the amp chords. As they go public. Ooh, they've gone public. Yeah, let's get Dan on the show. Yeah, we do, because this feels like... This feels like a bunch of people who feel very, who feel like they are very important. But like thought leaders, leading platforms, industry experts. You'd think there's a couple of people they could have invited. Not that I'm not, not that I feel slighted by it, but. invite Sam Sethi yes Exactly. He's vocal. He's by the Podcast Standards Project.

29:13 Yes. Why does your voice go up when you say that? DraftKings? Really? Better help. I've got to keep my voice low now. DraftKings? DraftKings? Better help, yes. I mean, like, what... This is... I'm sorry. I can't take this seriously. So let's just... Let's just tabletop this. Let's just game this out, Dave. Let's game it out. Is there any type of... Is there anything the podcast index slash podcasting 2.0 group of vagabonds? can produce for this group now no longer secret that will be a value and help to them? Is there something we can do? Is there something we can provide to them that will help them on their journey from accords to celebration? Yes, we can tell them to stop. That will save them a whole lot of pain. And I'm not even joking. Because this is, nobody's going to do this. How many times has this been? tried and expressed. is a new is What do they really want? Our agency spends more than half a billion dollars a year inside. inside podcasting and I still cannot tell a CMO with confidence what counts

30:44 as an impression. Impression. Dan Granger said that. Television solved that in 1950. Yeah, with bull crap metric. Yeah, they couldn't tell you either. No. Digital solved it in 2005. No, they didn't. 2005, we were still counting hits. What are you talking about? The hit counter. Yeah. Podcasting is the only major medium left where the platforms ask advertisers to take their word for it and advertisers still do. No, they don't. Radio. TV, all of it works that way. That honor system has to end and the amp accords point to a new beginning. And again, if you look at this from a technical perspective, the only way...

31:35 to get Real? Playback metrics. is with first-party data. Okay, stop. I'm just, this is, we're just tabletopping here. Okay. This is how we did COVID. Now we're going to do, we're going to do it for podcasting. That's right. Yeah. If... I'm just throwing something out there. So we have a lot of podcast apps. Spotify actually seems to have trouble. That's why they're going to video. Um... attracting people to use their audio product. If we all had first party data. And we all gave it to the Accords, the Amp Accords. Would the... amp accords cut the podcast apps in on some of the money No! Sorry, I went up again. It's okay. Well, then that is...

32:37 That is the The only way, the only way you could... You could even conceive of making this work and there's no mention of it. is if you want this valuable data then you would have to cut the app developers in on it, which I actually believe would be very positive for podcasting in general. Do you think UTA... And DraftKings. Give a shit. whether or not Um. Cast-O-Matic gets a cut of the playback. They sh- the playback. Yeah. If somebody listens to an ad. Mm-hmm. On Cast-O-Matic.

33:20 in a podcast. I don't think any of these people... Give one rip. But let's just look at the analogies they are choosing. Radio, television, etc. If I have a blog and I put ads on my blog, regardless of what the content is, my blog gets a cut of the money. If I have a television station and I run programming produced by a third party, which I may or may not pay for, my television station gets a cut of the money. If I have a radio station, my radio station gets a cut of the money. But then when it comes to podcasting, no, we're not going to give you any money. This is the core of their problem. If they came out and said, okay, everybody...

34:05 who gives us first-party data, and there's ads running in podcasts, and they're on your app, you're getting a piece of the money, it would happen overnight. You'd have no problem. I think almost every day there would be some developers who do the same thing. Hey, you don't want us to track you for ads? Pay me. Just like YouTube does. The model is there, but they're blind. They're blind to the opportunity. If they really wanted this, I can sit in this meeting for five minutes. Cut in the app developers. You got yourself a business. It's that easy. And are you really going to tell me that?

34:46 Well, I don't want to spy my users. No, no. They'd be going, I'll take the money. They're starving. They're starving artists. I mean that quite literally. App developers are starving artists. I think every single one would be like, yeah, okay, I'll do that. The fact that they did all this in secret. To me, I can't get past that. I'm sorry. And it's not because I'm sort of open source. like Zealot. It's just that you can't get credibility. Right. For an initiative like this, when you start it with some kind of secret WhatsApp group. This just, like, that's not, this is dumb. No, I, I. I'm completely there with you. I'm handing them the solution to their problem. No, I feel what you're saying, and I know exactly what you're saying, and I think it's... It's the right move and it's exactly what they're not going to do. Everybody who wants... make money is making money except app developers. Hosting companies make money. If they have some kind of ad tech, they're making money off of that. Everybody is making money except the app developers. Every single person. And Why do people use a certain app?

36:16 Because they love the app. They love the way. It functions, I love the features. You will solve this problem. The next accord can be a party. Break out the champagne, people. We've solved it. Dan Granger. Hello, Dan Granger. Listen to my voice. Cut the app developers in on the ad spend and you will have exactly what you want. End of message. End of message. Well, you say that, but why is it, why? App developers, raise your hand. Because look who's involved, because look who the members are. No, but. SiriusXM, Spotify. They're not going to cut anybody in on that. What do you mean they're not going to cut? Listen, if you're hosting and you have an ad network, you're already cut in. They are. Because they run the ad networks and the... and the uh and the app i can literally i can literally run the numbers and show you that it would be accretive to their business if they cut the app developers in.

37:22 but they don't care. Yep, they do care. They want this. That would be like Google. Saying that Firefox needs to get a cut of all the ad revenue that comes that served from Google's ad service. verse. Well, now they're not going to do it. Now this is a very interesting, interesting case. um Apple. gets a huge amount of ad revenue for sending stuff to Google. to Google search. - Traffic, yeah. - Traffic, yeah. You know, I think it's apples and oranges. You saying they're not going to do it is probably the default correct answer. But if they did do it, tabletopping, remember. Lab 257. We're just... We're just gaming this out, baby. Red team, red team. If If you cut the app developers in, the problem would be solved overnight. And everybody would have the same metrics. It'd have better metrics than you can even imagine. There would be upsell type metrics. You know, hey, log it. You could even, the app developers could cut their customers in. I can see the ecosystem right in front of my face. And I think app developers have moved beyond the, I just want to be the neutral.

38:53 No, you're starving. So why wouldn't you? You know who doesn't care? Users. don't care. Users get tracked and monetized everywhere except on podcast apps. Everywhere else, you're monetizing. People are monetized by apps and by websites and by computer operating systems. The users actually don't care anymore. So why don't we all join hands and let's jump in. It's now called the Atom Accords. And is Netanyahu going to be signing this? You had to take me there, huh?

39:34 I mean, if it's called the Accords, I mean, come on, that's only a Middle East thing. We will open the Straits of Podcasting. If you join the Adam Accord. The oil will flow. It will flow like money, like black gold, I tell you. That's the way you sell this thing. You come out of secret and you say, we're going to reopen the Straits of Hormuz. but we just need all the podcast apps to give us first-party data. I'm telling you. Yes. That's it. That's it. And I just want a show of hands. Well, you know what? Screw that show of hands. Boost in. Let me know if you're an app developer. Would you give first-party data for a cut of the money? Let's see. Uhhhh I'm Sam Sessy. Sam Sethy. Uh, 777. Do you recall our conversation on Podcasting 2.0 about reverse sats? I think with splits you can pay the app dev, the podcast, and even a small amount for the listener. Then everyone wants to hear ads. Yes, I recall. Yes. I understand.

40:41 No, that is not the way the Adam Accords are going to work. Straight up Sam Sethi boost me back. If you could get, if you gave first party data to the advertising agency. And you got paid, you got, you know, 10% or 15% or 5%. Of the ad revenue, would you take it? You are the most commercial-minded guy I know. Make your choice wisely. Okay, let's just wait and see what he says. We'll wait until he comes back. And, you know, Martin's out there listening. Mitch is out there listening. Everyone's out there listening. Why don't we bring in Mike and see what he has to say. I wonder what he says. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. He's been on the boardroom before, I think. Yes, I'm sure he has. Sam Sethi with a ceasefire violation.

41:38 Welcome back to the boardroom. Hey everybody, it's Mike Dell on the microphone. Hey, how's it going guys? I had all kinds of comments and if I was recording them it would be an interesting subtract. Well, we're sorry. We're sorry. We completely forgot about you. We're in our own little world. Mike. Tell us exactly what you do at Blueberry. I am the VP of operations, which basically chief bottle washer and do a little everything. You know, we're a small team. So we would now, Blueberry has ad networks. You have ad monetization systems in place. What do you think of the Adam Accord's idea of cutting in the app developers on the ad spend if they deliver first-party data? Yeah, you know, they're giving data. They should get something in return for it. On the other hand, how much data do you actually need? You know, if I do an ad on somebody's podcast, I'm going to measure it by how much did I sell because of that ad, not how many people listened to it or skipped over it or ignored it. Coming in with three sevens on the set, Sam Sethi says... Survey says, hell yes, I'll take the money. Exactly. Of course. That's just spoken like a true Samson. He now takes a seat at the right hand here in the Adam Accords. I'm really getting out there. I got to be careful what

43:09 I'm saying. Lightning bolts are in the air. But it's really that simple. It's that simple. I think it's actually a great idea. They should do that. Stop monkeying around. Stop circle jerking with meetings. All right, who's going to do the coffee and donuts next time? No. Put it out there. This is the kind of thing that podcast people have loved for so long is to have. nonprofits. and steering committees. Oh, yes. Everyone grab the wheel. What could possibly go wrong? Steer the car. Yeah, exactly. And, like, we need a, you know, we need a... a foundation for so-and-so. I mean, it's like, and all that stuff evaporates. I think you're, I think you're wrong. DraftKings would love to know exactly how many people heard their ad. and their location and what app they were using and their operating system. Were they walking? Were they sitting down? Were they sleeping? Were they in bed? And, you know, for a little extra Benny, I want to know who they are. Now, I'm sure people will give that up. That's your reverse sat, Sam Sethi. Hey, if you give me a login and you give me your name and some details, I will give you 5% of my 5%. This is America. This is how we operate. DraftKings is probably not... a great example because they would they

44:40 have would have the immediate vested interest to, they would just. or something like polymarket. They would immediately just monetize that information. was like bet on how many people listen to our ads in uh well okay On the Roku. Now you're just being funny. I have delivered a solution for the podcast industry that held meetings in secret. No, I believe in the Adam Accords. I will be... The ambassador for the Adam Accords. I will gladly- I will gladly go with some sort of tribute to whoever, but they will not talk to us. Mike, would you like a title in the Adam Accords? Oh, sure. I'll take anything. Well, there's your answer, everybody. It's very simple. We don't have to have any more conversations or meetings. The top podcast apps will all take your money. It's that simple. And the users will be even happier for it.

45:51 Hey, we're going to promise them to give them the right ad at the right time. That old yarn. Yeah. In your fridge, you'll order your milkshake. But it's, you know, and I actually have this on my list. You know, I heard the surprising story that the BIPOC podcast creators has closed. Because no one gave him money anymore. And the money they got. was to enter into podcast awards. Are you kidding me? This is nuts! So yeah, once DEI folded, your money went away. It doesn't mean that podcasting is racist. or that we don't love you or that you're not welcome here. It was a virtue signal to start with. whole thing is just like duh Sir Spencer said... I have to say. He said they're not looking for, they just want confidence. They're not like...

46:57 They're not looking for – they aren't looking for saying something true. They're looking for saying something with confidence. Buh-duh That sounds... to me That is such a... insightful thing to say, I think. That has connotations. for our entire, I think that. Well, it's true. Ask connotations for everything today. Yes, but that's what Nielsen has always been. It's confidence. They came up with a metric. Everyone agreed on it early on, 1950s. I'm like, okay, that's it. We don't question it. We don't say it's no good. We don't compete with it because it works for everybody. So yes, it's confidence. And the Atom Accords will deliver mega confidence and upside you've never even thought of. Stop circle jerking, you people! Dan Granger, call me. Slide into my DMs, baby. Let me talk to your group. I will represent all the independent podcast apps except for Overcast. No, if you talk to the Abraham or whatever their accords are called. The Amp Accords. If you talk to the Amp Accords, they're going to say things like they did about you. about you and the podcast standards project in the room. They're like, everybody was in agreement except Adam who was heckling. What? That happened? Don't do video. That

48:28 happens? Somebody's got to heckle, you know. Was that in a report? Was that in the meeting notes? I missed that. I think, I don't know who said that, but I remember it. Except Adam. Yeah, he was sitting there saying, don't do video. Y'all are doing the wrong thing. Stop before you go off a cliff. There you go. Yeah, well, we'll see. The whole video thing, I think, is all about advertising. Yes, it's part of the... They're trying to solve... We tried to... to meet them in the middle, solving a problem that didn't really exist by making video. Oh, well, if we do video, then all of a sudden it's understandable. Oh, it's video. It's like YouTube. Yeah, exactly. No, it's not. It's not because it's delivered differently. You still have the different metrics. Unless... unless you listen to the sound of my voice. Well, some of the platforms are doing the alternate enclosure, which is closer to... The free and open. You know, there's some doing it via API. We're right kind of in the middle of developing all that stuff here at Blueberry. But you see, the thing is, it's not about open or closed. That's irrelevant. It's about... Money Flow Yeah. That's all.

49:48 You want first-party data? Put your money where your mouth is. That's it. Is that it? What is my... Mike, what is Blueberry doing on video? We're going to be doing the Apple HLS. We'll support as much as we can, of course, because that's what customers seem to think they want. How does that get measured? How do you measure your HLS? video is that a different metric than uh than you have for audio I assume it's going to be very similar because, you know, even with Apple, you know, they're pulling it from our servers. So we'll have the log files on that. So we'll definitely develop.

50:34 Uh... stats. It'll be similar to what we do for audio here's a question you have advertising products correct We have for audio, yes. We have audio programmatic. Okay, so you offer this to your clients, your customers, who pay you handsomely on a monthly basis, and then you... interface or your company interfaces with the advertisers, the agencies buying the ads. It's probably a sound stack. I'm just guessing. um with some other big conglomerates. It's a third party that does the ad. And you give them the stats and they pay you and then you take... your cut and you pay the podcaster. Correct. If you had... I mean... just seems so simple to me. Duh. I'm at a loss for words. It's so simple. It's so easy.

51:34 The Adam Accords. You're stuck on the Adam Accords. The Adam Accords. I mean, I've already, it's in stone. It's on two tablets. It's good to go. It's good to go. Don't throw it down the mountain. I'll just make you two more. Don't worry about it. Stone is cheap. Make more. I think this is a winning solution. And we're uniquely positioned. to help them. do this and then i'm i'm just going to say i think i think that this will be heard But they don't want help because they did it all in secret. That tells me they don't want help. Well, no, they're just misguided. They're misguided! No they are! They're mis- They don't see the forest for the trees. Adam, your critical flaw. is that you are too optimistic. You are not nearly cynical enough and beat down. They're also aiming at the top. 5% of podcasters, however you define that. Which is even dumber.

52:46 I mean, how many... Just your Sam Sethi. Answer this question. How many... How many listening hours do you think that True Fans provides? on a daily, weekly, monthly basis. I bet it's a lot. And how many ads are running that you could report back on? I bet it's a lot. Now you add all of the podcast apps together, it starts to get pretty interesting. Yeah, and you know the shows that get 100 downloads an episode. can be just as valuable to those hundred listeners that, you know, somebody like Rogan that gets millions. Of course. And once you know, once the user, the user is told.

53:35 Hey, I'm going to give you a... A widget If you create a login. or I'll cut you in or whatever it is. You know, we kind of like that in podcasting. We like distributing to everybody except to the app developers for some reason. And, you know, how many times have we heard hosting companies should support app companies? You know, everyone holds their own, but there's a billion dollars of money out there. A billion. A billion is a lot. A billion dollars. Well, way back in the day, you know, when we had Blueberry, we pretty much started, you know, as an ad agency for podcasters. Yeah.

54:16 And, but we tried to sell a a lot of little shows getting the same number of downloads as... three or four big shows. But the ad buyers are lazy and they don't want to. They don't want to keep track of 200 shows. Let's run the numbers. A billion dollars. They're saying a billion dollars extra money. It says it right there, a billion dollars. On the sidelines. Okay, we'll help you bring in a billion dollars by creating a new metric. That's a thousand million. All right. So what if of that thousand million, we take 10%, well, 5%. That's $50 million. How many podcast apps are there?

55:05 starts to get interesting people what if you could make a hundred grand on your app I don't know about this billion dollars sitting on the sidelines. Oh, absolutely. Of course. Like it's just sitting there. No, no. No, no, no. Waiting to be, quote, deployed? No, it's a billion dollars of money that's going to YouTube. That's what it is. Oh, okay. You have to figure out the code language. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a billion dollars that's only going to YouTube, and that's why YouTube's in the group. This is no good. Those guys suck. Are they in this group? I didn't think they were. Oh, I thought they were. I thought they were. Wait, let me go back to the amp accords. Members. Okay, members. Flight Story, Lipson, Oxford Road. Podscribe. Better help serious XM Media. Oh, they're not in there. Yeah, no, they're not in there.

56:05 Oh, well, it makes it even better. So this is starting to make more sense. And UTA. So Spotify. is in this spotify and sirius they want to take my youtube money everybody wants they want to get the money yeah everybody wants okay okay this is not serious this is not a serious endeavor It could be. I bet you they got an LLC. you 501 3C. Oh, yeah, for sure. But this is not a serious endeavor. Hey, Mike, you were supposed to be on last week. I apologize. I actually invited you the week before. I mean, I'm such a mess. That's okay. That actually wasn't me.

56:51 That was my robot. Make sure you invite Dell over there. By the way, congratulations on the 10% increase in the stock price of Dell. computers. I'm very happy for your family. They popped today. Congratulations. It's funny. I get email every once in a while because I have the email address mike at mike dell dot com. People email and complain about their Dell computer. I always tell them. Go buy a Mac. That's what I do. That's great. Buy a Mac. Dude, you got a Dell. Yeah, what's your, give me your service ID number and I'll see what I can do. Let me log into your computer.

57:33 Give me your password. No, Mike, you had an exciting bit of news, which is not. necessarily new news right now, but we do want to have you promote your wares. Yeah. Brendan from Podpage and Blueberry got together and decided that Blueberry sucked at making landing pages that weren't WordPress. Who decided that? You or him? No, we both did. All of us kind of did. It was mutual. Well, you know, we had started on making a competing product to Podpage. And the further we got into it, he says, this is hard. These guys are doing good.

58:17 So, you know. Brennan reached out to me first, but I was real close to reaching out to him and I said, hey, let's do a deal. So now if you're a hosting customer at Blueberry, you have a choice. You can use PowerPress and do a WordPress site. Or you can do a pod page and you get that, you know, get the free basic. a decent looking page from Podpage just by having a Blueberry hosting account. - Do you mind if I ask you some business questions about this? Just out of pure interest? - Sure, but I'm under NDA. I'm just, I'm, you know, channeling my inner Todd. That was good. That was good. That was very good. Actually, my heart stood still for a moment.

59:03 Like he's speaking to me from heaven. So do you get a benefit if someone converts to a paying customer on PodPage? Yeah, we have a relationship that way or either way. If they send us a hosting customer, we send them a... A pod page customer. Excellent. Well, I'm a pod page customer. I like them very much, and I pay a lot of money to them to have the... my own.com working on their stuff. So it's very good. You know, I've dealt with customers for, you know, 15 years using PowerPress and I've come to the conclusion that unless you're into WordPress. it's not a good place to put a newbie. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Whereas pod page, you know, you go over there, you can make it look the way you want and it works really well. It's just a no brainer. If you just want a simple landing page, which you want your own.com.

1:00:01 That's awesome. You know. And it's kind of the opposite of, it's the opposite flow. Whereas with WordPress and PowerPress, you create your design and then you publish. Whereas with PodPress, you publish and the design sucks it into whatever it needs to be. It's the opposite flow. over there too for Blueberry customers. Ooh, fancy! Does it have a little Blueberry logo that goes back to your website? In the dashboard. Yeah, nice! Of course. Nice, nice. Top five of the web. Brendan's been awesome to work with. Our dev team and him just knocked it out. This is probably the quickest project. we've had in a long time for a major product release. You've been, you've been like boots on the ground helping customers with like so long nitty gritty details of launching their stuff. Like in a way that I honestly don't. No. of any other. podcast support person that does this. I mean, You're just like...

1:01:06 having phone calls with people to help them set up word power press and it feels like Man, that has just got to be... the most frustrating experience sometimes because there's gonna be like Working on somebody's WordPress site and they've got 27 plugins. And, you know, it's messing up everything. Yeah, the worst part of it now is a lot of the WordPress hosts want to upsell you security. Oh, my gosh, you know, you got to have your site locked down like Fort Knox. And, you know, and they think that. Somebody hitting an RSS feed is, oh, that's got to be a bot. We'll just block that, you know, and it's, you know, it's just whack-a-mole, you know, and there's, and I won't name them, but there are some WordPress hosts out there that I. Would say, uh, uh... Don't use them. You know? So, you know, like I said, WordPress is awesome. I use it on one of my shows. You know, it's... It's great. But I also have another show that I do that is on PodPage. And specifically because... I don't want to have to deal with all the... Possible problems with conflicts and all that in WordPress. Like I said, WordPress is great for those that like WordPress and we support that 100%.

1:02:27 How does PodPage deal with video? Is that a thing that they're handling yet? Yeah. They have a video player. They take the player from the host, at least. Like if you're a blueberry customer, you get the blueberry player on your pod page. And, you know, as for our video podcasts, we have a video player and they support that. So it's really no different. You know, they're just creating a webpage out of the RSS feed and then you can go in and... Style it and add pages and whatnot. I'm curious about this because... We had a discussion this morning. in our Godcaster Signal chat. We had a discussion this morning about stats and attribution and these kinds of things, just going back and forth about things.

1:03:19 You know, the web is such a messy. environment you have you have like uh mobile apps uh you know of course the podcast apps and that kind of thing. And that's a little more reliable just because there's so many barriers to entry to get to do fraud on a platform like that as far as like click. and those sorts of things. Oh, yeah. I've been dealing with that with our programmatic. Oh, have you? Okay. Oh, yeah. Well, you can impersonate the user agent of those apps, but you... But to actually get real traffic from an installed app is more difficult. There you go. You're singing my praises once again. Let's get rid of all those...

1:03:59 Stupid browser downloads. Scam. Well, didn't NPR come up with something like this way back when, you know, where they wanted the apps to put in this first-party stuff? That was an acronym with four letters. Yeah, start with R. Rest, rest, rest, rapid. RDA or something like that. Rad. Rad. Rad. Rad. There you go. Radio, audio, dumbos. I can't remember what it stood for. Rad. Something like that. Yeah, that's close. You're close. But I feel like the web, though. is just really There's no way to stop a certain amount of ad fraud. and playback fraud. How do you... How do you deal with that on something like... pod page in If you're selling ads against it, do you just discount? A certain amount of the traffic that you're unsure of. I mean. Yeah, I'm not sure how they do web analytics over there. But, you know, any of the audio advertising is going to come from Blueberry. Right. I really meant like on your side. like on your side. There's got to be a certain amount of traffic that you can't confirm. One way or another, if it's legit, you know, like how do you deal with the gray area traffic? Yeah, we have quite a

1:05:33 filter system in our stats. Yeah. You know, we... block bots and, you know, and, you know, we'll see something. Oh, geez, look at this. We've got, you know, 40,000 downloads from. From Chrome in New York. Okay, well that's obviously something going on there. um you know so you know it's a constant thing we've got you know one of our devs that's Basically, his main job is to monitor that stat system and, you know. Blockbots. Okay, it's good to hear you say that because I keep thinking that... Just from a, when I say it's good, I mean from just a personal level, because I'm like. I think... Sometimes that I'm like, okay, am I missing an easier way to do this? Because blocking bots feels like a, literally a full-time job. Yeah. It's a whack-a-mole thing.

1:06:30 You know, there's, they come up from time to time, you know, it's like, I've been dealing with the programmatic and. You know, whether do we pay this? person you know they have they they uploaded 10 episodes in one day And then it's constantly getting 5,000 hits a day or 5,000 downloads a day. Okay. And then I'll send an email and say, Hey, this doesn't really look legit. And all of a sudden, no traffic. Right. Yeah. It just disappears. Yeah, they just disappear. And, you know, we used to have a free trial, you know, where, oh, for a month, you don't have to give us a credit card or anything. You can spin up a podcast. Well, they'd spin up a podcast, sign up for programmatic, and then hit it with a bot farm. And, you know, so we had to get rid of that free trial thing. So you did get rid of the free trial. Interesting. There's a promo code free trial. So if you ask, we'll give you the promo code. But, you know, but you have to put your credit card in now. That was the differentiator. I gotcha. I gotcha. Now, because that, I know that's been a big. Back and forth discussion that happens in a lot of the hosting world is. How lenient can you be? Because I know a lot of hosts feel like, well, if I get rid of my free trial, period, then... you know, it is going to hurt my, my sign up, my conversions and these kinds of things. But I. It sounds like y'all haven't, sounds like y'all thought the trade-off was worth it. Yeah, it... Again, you know, free is a lousy

1:08:01 business model for what we're doing. For one thing, you know, look at, you know, look at the anchor when it started. You know, there was so many. Like, you know, they weren't fake or whatever, but there was, you know, hello world. And that was it. And you know, we just don't want to. deal with that. But we have a pretty low bar of entry. So people want to try us out. We're pretty easy going that way. If it doesn't work, we'll help you move. How is the company PT? P.T. Posts. post Todd. Oh, yeah. Okay.

1:08:42 Because that, we're doing good. The thing was, you know, he was kind of our vision guy, you know, and, and definitely he had his hands in a lot of what we did. And so, you know, we've all kind of stepped up and took over certain parts of it. uh He did. Here's a question. And it's just a question because... It's a question. Were there like issues like passwords and stuff that nobody knew how it worked because Todd was in charge of it? Not as much. We have Todd's son on staff. He's one of our developers, and of course he had access to all that stuff as well. So that, you know. Like a continuity question.

1:09:27 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Continuity of government. Now, the other thing is, you know, we have implemented a lot more of that, you know, because there are people on staff that are the only ones that do a certain thing. So now we're done. definitely cross training and, you know, you know, payroll we've got now three people that can do payroll where you know before that we only had one it wasn't time but you know you got a you know in a small outfit like that you got to be careful with that kind of stuff you know and we have you know a shared one pass account, one password account that has a lot of the company related stuff in it. These are uncomfortable but important discussions for small businesses. Absolutely true. Because a lot of the hosting world is small, is very small. I mean, there's a lot of people who are one-man shops, two-man shops, three-man.

1:10:18 Dude, dude. When Dvorak went in for his... double bypass. There was some panic. Yeah. Of course. No one knew how to get into anything. Like, what are we doing? We can't send out the newsletter. Wake him up. Yeah, I mean, like one day I'll see. you the passwords for get for uh for the linode you're never you're never gonna send me that one one day i'll put all my servers on the godcaster account but when when tina sees the bill she'll be like hey what is all this yeah i guess one of the other things that's changed at blueberry postod uh is We're now focusing more on what we're good at and what we're interested in doing versus trying to do everything. Right. So, you know, this pod page deal was just one of those things. We're not particularly good at web designs. So, you know, why don't we give that to somebody that... does it for a living. Good idea. and focus on what we're good at. You know, we've got a couple other products that are going to get shipped out to different places. because, you know... You know, I don't want to be in the business of worrying about what font is on somebody's landing page. You know, I... I sent a buddy of mine to you guys for your YouTube to podcast feature. That is so good, man. I love that.

1:11:47 Yeah, and we're really going to be pushing that a lot more because there's a lot of YouTubers out there that their stuff would be great on audio. It's so good because my friend, he was like, I'm going to do a podcast. I said, what are you going to do? I'm going to get it on YouTube. I'm like, oh, okay, here we go. Now I got to talk about this again. And I said, do me a favor, sign up for this. And he did. And so this called 10,000 miles, Vic Pepe. And I, and I, and I always get the podcast. I'm so happy. Cause I, I've known Vic since I was. you know, 26. I don't need to see it. I saw that one come in. Yeah. I don't need to see his face. So I just want to listen, just want to listen to you. And that's easier for me. And, and he's so happy because it was set and forget it. You know, he doesn't, he sees a, a charge once a month.

1:12:34 He's like, Oh yeah, that's for Adam. But I think actually he's doing quite well. I think. I think it gets a lot of downloads. What's nice about the VidDapod thing is... Vinterbar. For the users. You know, like, I watch a lot of YouTube. That's probably my... You know, if I say I'm going to watch TV, chances are it's going to be YouTube on the big screen, you know, and, but you know, it's not, I'm not. talking about watching a podcast and just watching a YouTube channel. Yeah. And there's some of them that, you know, geez, I'd like to really watch this. hour-long video but I don't really have an hour. I'd rather have it on my... phone stick the earbuds in and go do something else while i'm consuming this content and That's the selling point. Plus distribution. You're just on YouTube if you're just on YouTube. That's right. You can distribute to 125 or more other apps. Is that how many there are? How many? 125? That's the best I can get. I've been trying to figure that out. That's a lot. About 125 ways to listen to an audio podcast. Wow. That's pretty good. You know, and then there's a certain subset of those you can actually watch video, but I'm not the demographic to watch long form video on a phone. Just before we run out of time pretty soon, I want to welcome Leo Laporte. to Podcasting 2.0. welcome welcome leo wow yeah yeah i heard he did chapters on something

1:14:05 chapters yeah yeah doing chapters that's right chapter transcript setting never would do it never be a part of that curry group person tag and the funding tag. You're French. boom come on we're fringe i'm happy i'm happy he's doing that and i hope that certainly the funding tag i hope that helps him That does well for him. Dave, did you want to do anything with these clips you had? Do you want to push those to the next show? What do you want to do? Uh, we can try, we can, yeah, we can- Flip it over to the next show. That's fine. Okay. That's not a problem. Yeah, that's fine. We can do that next week.

1:14:47 Okay. I'm just looking at the time. Should we thank some people here? Then we'll have a few more minutes left with Mike. Yeah, sure. Sounds good. Oh, Sam Sethi actually comes in. as we serve thousands of listening hours per week. We stream all MP3, MP4, or HLS content. We can then measure the actual plays, total listen time. We also know if an ad was played and for how long. We have first-party data for all apps. He's looking at this from a hosting perspective. He would, that's... I always forget they're double. That's happening a lot, Mike. We're seeing apps becoming hosting companies. Yeah, there's all kinds of competition coming in, and I guess I understand it.

1:15:36 If you have both ends of it, that's... even better if you got that if you have an app and you have hosting you can do even more One time we were thinking about making an app. I'm going to make you guys so rich. I'm going to make you all so rich. Well, good. Stick with me. Stick with the Adam Accords. Success will bring us together. Let's see. We had Martin Lindeskog with 1776's Freedom Boost. Laissez faire. Let the market decide. I will continue podcasting without regular ads. I have no problem listening to ads or skipping them, but I will not be joining the secret group. You're welcome to join the Adam Accords. It's going to be fun. three, three, two, one, and one, two, three, four, all with test boots. And he says the bat signal has been received. We have a Amsterdam boomer, seven 51. Uhhhh... Coming in with 91 sats from Fountain. Miss you guys. Hope you're back tomorrow. Well, here we are.

1:16:36 And then thank you, user. or 940-187-348888328 if found. change it for your $64.97, probably about $65. The fountain is doing weird with their numbers. I'm not sure what they're sending out weird numbers. I'm sure this 91 sass was probably 100. I'm not sure why that's happening. Fuzzy math? I don't know what it is. And then I hit the delimiter. So Dave, what do you have on your list? We've got some PayPal's here. We've got Timothy voice. $10. Thank you, Timothy. Appreciate it. Oh, here's a one-off. Here's a $61.64 from Patrick Bomer. Ooh. I onboarded way back by mention from Adam, probably on no agenda since I learned a lot and like to support your good work. Love the technical exploration Dave does too. Patrick Bomer, it's B-O... B-O-M-L-O-T-M-E-R. Even the Dutch government can't do it right. How do you pronounce it? You don't. You just say, hey, Patrick, how you doing? Okay. Thanks, Patrick. Appreciate it. Uh, uh, let's see. Oh. Buzzsprout. Thousand bucks. Blaze on the Impala. Thank you, boys and girls of Buzzsprout.

1:18:02 It's the big hosting companies who support us. Big and small, I should say. Lots of hosting companies support us. And just wait until these apps start making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year thanks to the Adam Accords. We will be remembering you. We will keep you in mind. We will. We'll keep you in mind. The Adam Accords. I'm telling you. It's a thing. It's going nowhere fast. Jorge Hernandez, $5. Thank you, Jorge. Michael Goggin, $5. Cohen Glotzbach, five bucks. Thank you, Cohen. Christopher Reamer, $10. Thank you, Christopher. James Sullivan, $10. Randall Black. Hey, Randy.

1:18:48 Five bucks. Thank you. Drebscott, $15. Thank you, Dreb. Thank you, Dreb. Chris Bernardick, five bucks. Michael Kimmerer, $5.33. Charles Hicks, five bucks. And that's our PayPal group. We got. I've only seen, I only see one Boostergram and that's from CSB. Oh, okay. Well, that's the one. Well, we were gone last week, so I guess people just said, screw those guys. We shot ourselves in the foot. Big time. Uh, that is, let's see, it comes from a bar of 20,000. sets Through Fountain, he says, Howdy Dave and Adam. Please go to youtube.com slash at AI-ArchWizard and watch the latest 50 minutes long video. It's my interview with Andrew Gromit. Adam's Pal from Mevio Podshow Times, where...

1:19:37 Andrew is showing how to yield force of vibe coding like Yoda to the max. Yo, CSB. He somehow wrangled Andrew into an episode. Yes, and we should correct him by saying that Andrew was not just from... I hired him as the first hire at MeVio, a pod show. because I'd worked with him in the early days on the iPod-er stuff. He goes way back before Mevio. Does he go back to on-ramp? No, he doesn't go back to on-ramp, but no. But he goes back to the very first days. And who were the guys who did the iPod or X? One guy was in Australia. I think, or New Zealand. I forget who they were. There was a couple people. Grumet, you know, we work really well together. I always enjoyed working with Andrew. We did.

1:20:30 We had something called the Golden Ticket. Oh, yeah, you've told me about that. Which predates... Uh... ad insertion. where we would have a promotion across the net across network promotion I bet you that's what the Amp Accords, I bet you that's what they're going to reveal. It's a golden ticket. It's been 12 months of Podhemian Grove secrecy. Hemian Grove. Oh, man. Oh, Dave. Oh, man. Now, if CSB is going to be doing 50-minute interviews on YouTube, he needs to be on VidDapod so he can listen to it. No kidding. Yeah, for real. Yeah, really. Come on, CSB. Support the blueberries. Mike, we're... Was Blueberry consulted by the Ampicords? No, we were not. Oh, shock, shock.

1:21:25 This is an outrage, I tell you. A stunning revelation. Well, you know, Lipson's really, you know, since they got into the advertising side of things, you know, they're not. They're not what they used to be. Is Libsyn a podcast hosting company anymore or are they just an advertising agency? I had somebody ask me that on the phone earlier today. I said, yeah, they're still around. No, I'm serious. It's a serious question. Yeah, you can still go over there and get your $20 account or whatever. Do a podcast. But I don't think that's their focus. Yeah, it sounds like that's an, it sounds like that's like a, what do they call those things that are like your appendix? An appendix. No, no, but I mean like a vestigial organ. It's a vestigial organ. Well, Rob and Elsie left there. Side gig. Rob and Elsie left there and now they're at Captivate. Congratulations to them. Are they both there? Yeah. Rob's over there and Elsie. I don't know. There's still a couple people over at Libsyn that I know, but that's it. I used to know everybody that worked there. Here's my final pitch. I've just been sitting here. my creative juices. You're right, Dave. I am a perpetually optimistic, happy guy. I really am. My pitch would be, and this is something, I mean, maybe Sam Sethi could organize it. I'm very bad at organizing. If

1:23:00 we all get together. And we just, and it can be done, it can literally be done on the mastodon. It's not that hard. In Davos? What's that? In Davos? Is that where we're going to meet? Well, we will eventually all meet in Davos, of course. We're going to be so big. all the app developers get together and we say, okay, here's, here's the pieces of data that we're going to make available. And here's what we want in return. We want this percent of your ad buy. And we're going to give you exactly exact numbers, tell you who heard the ads. And we're going to have extra tiers where we talk to our customers, our users and tell them, you know, and we'll work out something with them. Think about that. I mean, this is totally the reverse Sats model. Yeah, we're going to give you, and you know what? Give them Sats. Give them stable coin, whatever you want. Pay them easy in the app.

1:23:52 It doesn't have to be a lot of administration. If you give us your name or some other personal details, people will do this. They don't care. and especially don't care if they know they can make some money. Be honest with them. Be open. It'll work. Everyone will be happy. I guarantee you we will have a summit. We're going to do the summit in Alaska. where the amp accords and the atom accords will meet on the tarmac we will We'll be coming in with a DC3. We'll all fall out of this thing like a clown car. Full of cash. Full of cash. Just pallets of cash.

1:24:38 Pallets of cash, exactly. We're ready. We're here for the... chords we're good to go so yeah somehow some ac10s get bought i don't know a couple of groundhog no problem we're opening the straights yeah we'll bring in the davos girls it's gonna be for so much fun. We're going to get Spurlock high. I mean, it's going to be great. Mike, your name is going to be on Wikipedia as one of the members of the Adam Accords that opened up the Straits of Podcasting. There you go.

1:25:20 All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much. This has been one of the more enjoyable episodes. Mike, thank you for contributing. Loved it very much. Boardroom went silent. They basically went, uh, whoa, what? They're like, these guys are off the rails. They just left. They were confused, I'm sure. Yeah, very much so. All right, everybody, we'll be back next week to bring you another board meeting where the Fun is always to be had right here on Podcasting 2.0. See you then, everybody. Bye-bye. You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information. Go podcasting!

1:26:14 is actually Pain in the butt.