Dating After Divorce: How to Rebuild Confidence, Avoid Red Flags & Find Love Again with Kerry Brett

SPEAKER_00 0:33

If you've been through a divorce, the idea of dating again can feel exciting, terrifying, and sometimes a little bit of both. How do you know when you're really ready? How do you rebuild confidence after a marriage ends? And maybe most importantly, how do you recognize the red flags you might have overlooked before without becoming afraid to trust again? That's why I wanted to bring back this conversation with Carrie Brett. Carrie brings such a refreshing perspective to dating, relationships, confidence, and finding love after divorce. And what I love about this conversation is that it isn't just about finding the right person. It's about rediscovering yourself, rebuilding your self-worth, understanding what you truly want in a relationship, and learning that starting over can actually be an opportunity to do things differently. If you're navigating life after divorce, wondering whether you're ready to date again, struggling with confidence, or simply trying to figure out what a healthy relationship looks like in this next chapter, I think you'll find a lot of value in this episode. Because finding love again starts with knowing who you are, what you deserve, and what you're no longer willing to settle for. So whether you've heard this conversation the first time or you're rediscovering Carrie Brett today, I'm glad you're here. Let's get into it. I am so excited for today's guest. She is a master photographer, a dating strategist, and host of the 13 times award-winning podcast, Shot at Love. She's also the author of Shot at Love, and she's helped thousands boost their confidence, create standout profiles, and find love online. Please help me welcome the one, the only, Carrie Brett. Carrie, thank you so much for being here today.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

I just finished reading your book, Shot at Love, and I loved it. How you used the movies and music and your sense of humor to weave in your experiences made it a fascinating and a rather quick read. But more importantly, there's a lot of wisdom in what you shared. So, for instance, you write that a damsel in distress looks for a savior when in reality you need to become someone who doesn't need saving. How did that mindset shift change the way you approached dating and even life?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

That's a really good question. It took a while for me to change. I went back and forth on the merry ground, and I couldn't get off what was a toxic relationship and what was an addiction to that.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

And so once I got a book called Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl by Natalie Liu, I had a plan. I had a plan in place and I could identify the patterns because I got so lost and so tripped up from not having information. And I think that's the biggest thing. They say there's power in information, there's knowledge in education. And that's why I wrote the book because I knew that if I could spell it out with certain stories and movies and music, it would make it very clear for someone that they could understand that there wasn't something wrong with them. They were just making choices that weren't best for them.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I agree with that. Yeah, I was in a toxic marriage for 17 and a half years. And one of the reasons I it took me a long time to do it, but write my story is I wanted to show the subtleties of some of the red flags and how easy you can get entrapped in them. And like you said, it's kind of a power thing. I had no idea about love bombing. I had no idea that there's an addiction to that love bombing, you know, that that you need because there's something, you know, missing. I later learned there's something missing in me. So I had to figure that out. When you talked about restoring the light within and how our self-perception shapes how others treat us, what were some of the daily decisions or habits that helped you rebuild your confidence, you know, after your heartbreak?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

I was hanging on and in the depths of despair without a shred of self-worth. So let's join Tinder at age 43 with the 13-year-old. I really didn't have any lower to go. I didn't have anything to lose. And I wanted to take action to find love. And back then I just had match and Tinder. Hinge wasn't available. I didn't like okay, Cupid. And so I kind of had to make it work on Tinder. And now Tinder is the largest dating app, largest pool. The problem is you cipher through more people. And in the beginning, I was really superficial because of my photography, and I kept attracting six, four narcissists, good-looking guys that really were the exact mirror of just a slightly taller version of what I got out of. And truthfully, they were unintentional daters, all of them. But I gave them a lot of leeway because I knew all of them from my past. So it just shows how safe I was being and not stepping out of my comfort zone that I kept dating somebody that I knew and that they were verified. But just because they were verified doesn't mean that they were the right choice for me. And so I kept attracting these short-term relationships, and that brought me down even further. But that's when I really started to rebuild myself up, and that heartbreak led me to doing more inner work.

SPEAKER_00 7:41

One of the things you talk about is learning to take back your power. And all too often, many women, including myself, we unknowingly hand our power over to men. So, what are some of the practical steps we can take to recognize when we're doing this? And how and when if we start realizing we're doing this, how do we take that power back?

SPEAKER_01 8:07

I think your inner knowing and your compass and your intuition is something you should really rely on. And if you're changing your schedule, not seeing your friends, not being there for your family, if you have to twist into a pretzel and every day you have to build your life around somebody, that's a really good sign that this is not even.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

You've really truly given your power away. Yes. And I I love that about trusting your gut. I wish I had done that back in the day because the day I got married, I'm literally just entered the church, you know, at the back of the church where the guests rise up to see the bride. I'm on my dad's arm, and all of a sudden, my stomach did a flip that was so strong, I kind of grabbed onto my dad really hard. And he looked at me and he said, You know, you don't have to go through with this. And here I have 200 sets of eyes looking at me, and I'm thinking, oh, and knowing how much money had already been spent, it's like, no, I just chalked it up to wedding day jitters. And that's so important to understand when you when your gut is telling you something, pause. Take a moment and pause and think about it.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

I think they should do away with that term wedding day jitters. I really do. Yeah. And because if I had a dollar for every person who's come on my show, I should do that as an opening question. Did the day that you got married? Because so many people tell me that they felt that way.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

And yeah, and I felt a lot of pressure being the oldest child in my family. And I left when I was 18 and never went back. I had a business and property so young, I did everything. I was shooting covers at 20 years old.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

So I grew up really fast. And I don't know if it was because I was Irish Catholic, there was this pressure to get married and have children. And I have one child. I talk about in the beginning of the book that I had a really hard pregnancy and I was bedridden, and I was only supposed to have one child, but I was supposed to have a really big career, too. And that wasn't necessarily taught to me or any of us really back then. So I really kind of figure out my life when a relationship is now going to jeopardize my job. And I was in a male-dominated profession, and I was judged for being a woman and told I couldn't do it when I could do it. And I it was that turning point that I was like, no, no way. I've got to find a way to get it together. And that's a powerful chapter when I finally hit that point. And I remember I had the audio of that and I played it and I went for a walk with my daughter on the beach, and she was like, Wow, mom, like she's 22 now. And she's like, that was so good. Thank you. So it's it was very difficult to write this book.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

I can imagine, yeah, because there's flashbacks, you're reliving some pain. Because I think for me, there was so much time that had passed, like 25 plus years. I was actually able to get through it. In fact, I wrote it in five and a half weeks. There must have been something I just needed to get all of this off of my chest. But I at the end, I like, wow, I went through all of that. I can talk about it now without feeling triggered, without feeling upset. I kind of gave myself a pat on the back saying, look how far you've come. And there's so much, so much to that. One of the things you talk about is for women to take that time and heal yourself. You know, I think you're talking about banking. You use the term banking on yourself. And elaborate a little bit more on that. What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 12:54

As a photographer, being a celebrity photographer, there's a lot, it's not a lot of money in magazine work anymore. And so at the end of my magazine before we closed, I was paying to do covers like Annie Leibowitz did. And Annie Leibowitz, actually, yesterday, she turned 76, and she's the most famous photographer in the world, and she's a woman. And she went bankrupt, and she's so talented. And so that's often the story of the artist. It doesn't matter your talents or your abilities, but I went through a terrible divorce that left me in $130,000 worth of debt, and I had a camera and two lenses to bail myself out. So I was rolling coins and a coin star. I mean, if I broke my foot and I couldn't work, I was in trouble. And so when you don't have self-worth, when you don't have any money, you kind of don't have any options. And when you don't have money, it's another thing that can hold you back or hold you in a relationship or keep you stuck financially.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

I keep going back to a bad relationship because you think there's safety, but it's not the safety you really need.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

And so I'm lying in bed, and my friend writes this book who I work with at The Improper, and I read the book, and he's also a financial advisor, and I start to put the two together, and he always said that I had a voice for radio, and he saw a lot of he saw so much creativity in me, and he saw a wealth of opportunity, and he always said that I could bail myself out with my creativity, and essentially I did, yes, but that's why I wrote that chapter about love and finances because it's the same energetic, and it all comes down to worthiness, and it all starts with how you feel about yourself, so you've got to find a way to find your worthiness and realize that wealth comes in many forms other than cash. Wealth is humor, wealth is creativity, wealth is love. That's the biggest superpower power around. I love that. So I wrote that because that is a big problem in this country, especially the numbers went through the roof during COVID. Abuse went through the roof.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yes. You warned that problems we ignore in the beginning often become the reason we walk away in the end. What are some of the most common red flags that you think people overlook? And I'd like for you to elaborate more on the story you tell about the waiter.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Oh, yeah. That was crazy. People show their true colors right away, really.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

And we ignore it. We ignore it. We chuck it up to some, we ex make excuses for it.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Totally. And I always say, so I'm pretty good at sizing people up because if you think about my job, I do like, okay, so relationships aside, if someone walks in front of me and I have to photograph them, I figure them out really quickly because I have to figure them out really quickly because I have to photograph them and highlight the best of them. And so I'm very observant and I always have been. But my heart is so big that I do truthfully love everyone and can find something good in everyone. So that quality really hurt me online. And so I always say, men will tell you who they are in 90 seconds or less, so pay attention and ask a lot of questions. My friend Luz Gomez, the date detective, he always says to me, Carrie, you'd be a great detective. And I'm like, I would. I don't know about that. And he's like, Yes, you would, because you ask a lot of questions. And I ask a lot of questions because I'm trying to get answers so that I can figure out how to photograph you. I'm trying to get to know you. But I gave a lot of leeway to good looks and a lot of superficial things in the beginning. And a lot of people are looking for the wrong things. They don't mean to be looking for the wrong things, and they give people a very long leash when they don't know them. And that's the truth.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Don't you think so much of our society and culture and what we see on TV and in the movies help contribute to wanting someone that's tall, dark, and handsome, or a woman who is shaped like Barbie, or you know, things of that. And we tend to overlook their heart. That's where the beauty can be found, I think, is in someone's heart.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah, I mean, you think about social media, all of its optics.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Oh, it is, right? Everybody wants to put their best things over right, and you never know what someone could be smiling and they could be absolutely dying inside. They're so unhappy.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Well, that was the biggest surprise and shock at the magazine that everyone was devastated. I mean, they were excited about the book, they were excited to be in the book, but they were shocked that I essentially held hid the truth and never asked for help and did a really good job lying about my life. And they all were so many people in my book were like, Why didn't you ask for help? I would have helped you, and I couldn't.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Do you think some of that was because the in the one relationship you were and dealing with narcissism? Narcissists have a way of isolating you, like from your friends, from your family, from a job. And and I experienced this as well. And I think for me, I got to the point of I didn't know how to ask for help, or I was too embarrassed to admit that I had gotten into this marriage, this relationship, and how just really how unhappy I was. Did you find some of that same same thing as well? Or okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, I mean, there's so much shame that chips away at you. You have no self-esteem left. None. Yeah, you really don't. And I think I only really had worth when I put the camera around my neck. And then I became somebody who was good at something, and I could like think I was worth something. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that I was a poor student, I needed glasses, I needed ADD medication, and I needed resources that I didn't have. And because I was a poor student and wasn't good at any sport or anything, and didn't find a talent that I had until I was about 17. Everything around my life really was about my career. And I think a lot of people can say that. And that's the first place you lose yourself.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yes. So many of us identify ourselves as a career, whether that's a stay-at-home mom or a photographer or a lawyer, doctor, Indian chief, we all identify ourselves by our career kind of first, first and foremost. And when we lose that or think we're losing that, we really feel like we've lost ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah, I know. I had a ruptured disc in my neck, and I've ruptured it twice, and I couldn't shoot, and I didn't know if I was going to be able to shoot. I'm better now. And I can remember crying to my mom saying, like, I was born into my dad's photographer. I can remember crying to my mom saying, I can do other things. You know, like there's lots of things I can do that's creative if I couldn't shoot. But it's scary when that one thing, he was a famous knuckleball pitcher, and he was going to retire after 17 years, and he was like, You're gonna be a comedy. You're so funny. You're so good looking. You're so amazing. I was so excited for his next act. But to him, all he knew was baseball. And the tribute that I write to him is like, he's not going to be remembered for his baseball. He's going to be remembered for his heart. Because he was an incredible person. And so I think it all does go back to your heart. And that's what people remember. They don't remember what you wore, they remember how you made them feel.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Right. Maya Angelo has that quote, and it's so true. It's very, very true. You also talk about faith. And I know for me personally, if it wasn't for my faith and knowing that God always had me, I don't know really where I would be right now. But you talk about the power of surrender and dropping that bag of bricks and trusting that God's got me. How can someone in the middle of heartbreak learn to let go and trust the process?

SPEAKER_01 23:52

I have a friend who said, now I love that God's got me because that came from my friend said McNary. And I think when you have nowhere else to go, when you're really out of options everywhere, you must hand it over to God. And you must find religion, spirituality, something. And for me, I found Sanskrit mantras. And I this week actually met with Namadeva, who's in my book, his guru, and he was his best man in India in 1978. And he gave me the two same chants that Namadeva gave me almost two decades ago. And I know that Namadeva helped me from the other side, you know. Like I just have a lot of faith and a lot of spirituality. So my aunt is a nun, and she told me that mantras are just like doing the rosary, it's the same thing. And my friend Maureen Hancock, who's a medium, is like it's all under the same umbrella of the Verizon Network.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

So can you hear me now? Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's prayer, really. It is. And it's that conversation with God. It's not just like prayer. And sometimes I have to, you know, I found myself, God, why is this happening to me? And then to learn to be still. That's something he's still working with me to be still the to hear him. You know, what what is it and put it place in my heart? Where do where do I need to be? What do I need to do? Right. It's not an easy, it's not an easy journey, it's not an easy walk. But I totally love it when you said about dropping the bricks and that God's got me, that He does.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah, my brother, so the dropping the bag of bricks actually came from my brother Tim. I remember we were in Nantucket. I remember the exact conversation. We were at the gazebo in Nantucket, and he said, You have to stop. You have to put the backpack down, Carrie. The backpack of bricks that you are carrying, because he had just met Scott for the first time. And he liked him. And he said, He's really nice and you're really happy. But if you don't let this stuff go, you're not gonna have a relationship with him. And that was an act of love that my brother did that, that said pointing out a weakness in a player. You can't see your own shortcomings or things that you're missing. And it takes a good friend or a family member to say, you need to maybe change it up, or I think they call that tough love.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

You know, sometimes we need to hear the truth, and we may not like hearing it, but when it's out of love and for your own good, then when you look back, it's like, yeah, I needed that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

But a lot of times I tell people what they don't want to hear and they're not ready to hear it, and they don't like what I have to say, but I am saying it because I've seen this act before, and they're gonna run into trouble with this person.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yeah. Well, one of the things you mentioned is you challenge the idea that a failed relationship is truly a failure. And I agree with that. How can someone reframe a breakup as a success or a transformational step toward their best self?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Right. So, chapter 11, I speak about this guru from Ghana, miracle man, son of a miracle man from Ghana, Coot Blackson, and he wrote a book called The Magic Surrender. And that book came to me when I was on my knees. I had lost my friend DJ, he was 50 years old, and I was up against my deadline, and I wrote chapter 11. And that book was so helpful to me because and he writes about the lesson is in, you know, you don't learn until you lose love. It's in that loss, the lesson is in that relationship, and it's not a bad thing. I mean, sure, heartbreak's tough, it is, but it's who you become through the process, and then you look at things differently. It's like I give the analogy of Marty McFly when he goes through all the challenges and back to the future, and he didn't want to have to go through all that with Doc Brown, but he rose to the challenges every time. And I don't think anyone knows they can do it or chooses to do it, but you have to, you have to get through life's challenges, and you're not gonna escape without them.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

And I think failure really again, you have to look at it in the mindset of what is it teaching you? You know, you make we all make mistakes, nobody's perfect. But it's when we don't get back up and get back into the game, do I think we really truly fail? But if you keep getting back up and you're trying and you're learning and you're growing, that's not failure. At least that's not how I see it.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

No. The thing is, you can't control another person. All you can do is keep stay in your lane and keep your side of the street clean. So often when relationships end, sometimes it really never had anything to do with you. If you think about it, I know lots of marriages that have failed or they got divorced because of substance abuse or lots of things. Illness, that's a huge one. A sick child, whatever it could be, there's sometimes sick parents, there's all different factors that are outside that relationship that slowly break down that relationship.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

The outside pressures can be so great that they're just not prepared to be equipped to handle it. It's just too much.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

It's too much. So you have to give yourself some grace, and that's when you trust in the bigger plan and you hand it over to God and know that you're just doing the best you can, and like go to bed and hope for a better day the next day.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

So let's try to change course a little bit here and talk about dating apps. I know you became a Tinder success story. So, what are some strategies listeners can use to create an authentic profile and how to use these apps effectively without burning out or getting burned? I've been catfished, I can't tell you how many times.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

It's all around the leading image, the leading photograph. You really it's how you position yourself because it's marketing and branding 101, and you're selling yourself. And people, if you have good photographs, those doors are gonna open for more matches. And I know that because I'm a professional photographer, and when I could see that my profile images were just like the magazine covers that I shot, it became very clear to me. And that was the reason I became so fixated on dating apps, because the images are important, but also the energy that you have, your belief system. And I always say that if you believe, I can help you. But if you don't believe that you can find love, I can't help you.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Because you're already going in with a defeatist attitude, really, being positive and believing you're right, believing that it's that number one, you deserve it and that it is out there, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:01

So I was given that tip or that permission from my psychic healer because she was like, the way karma works, Carrie, is that all the good that you put into your past relationships will come back to you tenfold, and you will find love really pretty easily. And she was the one who set me up with Scott, essentially.

SPEAKER_00 33:28

That's such a cheap. I love that how you guys met up on, and then you you know, the train ride, and it's on Easter, and that was a cute scenario, and you were just like, This is going to work, and sure enough, it's like, yep, it does, but you just never know. You never know, and you gotta keep your options and your eyes open.

SPEAKER_01 33:50

Yeah, a lot of people say that to me about the book. They say, you know, Carrie, I I changed profoundly after I read your book, and a lot of people those say, like, what would Carrie do? And Carrie would say open, and what would Carrie do? And I like that that I have a lot of friends and different people have read the book. That's not exactly how they would approach it, but they know that I say, be open, try different things. I wish I had my book when I was dating because I would have done a lot of things differently.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

Yes, I wish I would have known some of the red flags back in the day. You know, when I was dating, you know, we didn't even talk about domestic abuse or gaslighting. It wasn't even a term, right? Exactly. So much, you know, has come in the last say 10, 20 years. You know, there's a lot more information out there, and it's just getting people to read it and be open to see how it can negatively impact you when you're in these wrong relationships. Oh, yeah. It can destroy you, it can cost you your life. Yes, it almost did mine.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

Me too. Me too. And by the grace of God, I'm here. Yep, and I'm gonna put all this pain to purpose.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Exactly. So I you touched a little bit about this, but you say believing in yourself is one thing, but believing you can find love is something else entirely. How did you rebuild that belief? And what advice do you have for listeners who feel love might have passed them by?

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Well, love is everywhere, love is in us. So they're talking about love like they don't possess it, which they do possess it. They love their dog, they love their friends, they love their children. We all have that. And so I think first is you've got to reframe love in general, and not look at it as it's almost like people when they say the word dating, it's almost like debt, it's almost like the IRS.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

Something you have to do, you know, pay some value.

SPEAKER_01 36:12

Yeah, they're so negative about it. And I love meeting meeting new people, I love to go out, I'm interested in people, I really am. That's why I have a podcast. I was just so open and I just made myself be positive, even on the hard days. And I would just be like, okay, well, I'll just look at it as I'll have a vodka soda and a burger and get the hell out of there. I just found it or I had a good hair day, you know, I just found any small thing to keep me going. I would lay out my outfit, I would take away all the stress around the date. I didn't want to pay a babysitter. I would go out when I didn't have my daughter. I stopped getting a blowout and a spray tan and all those things because it costs money. So if the date wasn't good, I'd be mad that I spent money. I would look at the menu before I got to the restaurant so that I could put all my focus on that other person. And I would go early so that I didn't have any stress about being in traffic. I would know where my bag was gonna go and every small detail. I checked off a box, like it was like a shot list that I was doing a cover, so that I was really organized and I didn't have any stress around it. So I made it as easy as possible. But I do think that people tend to do the same things and go to the same places, and I think you need to shake it up. I think you really need to shake it up, and there's a new thing. It's I don't know if it's new, but they call it like something September, where you force yourself to go out to a bar or restaurant by yourself. I like sit alone September or something, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Go to a golf course on a Friday afternoon. No one knows you're not playing, it's all men. Go to places where you know there's gonna be tons of guys, they're all over the financial district. It's not that hard to find out where men are and just start going there. Or if you're looking for a woman, same thing. You really have to make your own way because no one's gonna come and save you. You have to get creative and do things out of the box and not be afraid to do things alone.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

I love that last part. You're right. You have to learn to be comfortable with being by yourself. You have to learn with being comfortable with doing things, going places. I know I've gone to a restaurant just because sometimes I feel like I need to get out of here and I'll go go get a hamburger somewhere and sit at a table, and I'm perfectly comfortable. And but I know I need to get changed my scenery, change my environment. And it's that's perfectly okay because you never know when someone might be sitting at the next table that you catch eyes with, and that could be the one, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:33

Yeah, I mean, I'm going to this, my publisher, she's Armenian, and I'm going to her Armenian church because they have speakers, and I'm so excited because you know, you have the Indian matchmaker, and I'm gonna say I'm the Armenian matchmaker at this church, and I'm excited because it's gonna be. I worked for an Armenian family, so I feel like I'm half Armenian sometimes, but but I know that it's gonna be a whole new group of people that aren't my Irish Catholic friends, you know what I'm saying? So new opportunities, it's a new opportunity, and she's surprised it. I'm excited, yeah. That's what I'm saying is I was really a lone wolf and was an artist and did things by myself, and I never did group activities ever. And I joined a book club here in Boston called Lisa's Book Club, and I'm around other authors and other readers, and I have so much fun at this book club. I can't tell you. So try different things like that.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Right. Carrie, this has been a fantastic discussion. I really appreciate your time. If someone wants to buy your book or listen to your podcast or get to know you, and I'll put everything in the show notes, what's the best way to do that?

SPEAKER_01 41:06

You can purchase the book on Amazon. The first seven chapters are on my podcast, Shot at Love. So I'm going to be releasing a new chapter each week. And I want my listeners to have my book because the main goal is to spread the word and have everybody sharing the book. And a lot of people don't read. So that's why I'm doing that on my show. And if you have a question and if you want coaching, which I do do, then you can send me a DM, Carrie underscore Brett, on Instagram, or you can go to shotitlovebook.com.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Okay, very good. Very good. Again, thank you so much. You provided a lot of value, a lot of worth. And for the listeners, please read this book. You will not be sorry. Even if you're married, you will enjoy the music references, the movie references, and of course, Carrie's brilliant personality and humor that come out and make a great read. So, Carrie, once again, thank you so much.