Can Divorce Be Positive? Protecting Your Kids & Breaking Generational Patterns with Melinda Perry

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to another episode of Bent Not Broken. Heartbreak and trauma may feel like the end of your story, but here it's the beginning of a bold new chapter. I'm your host, Coach Deborah Griffiths, and this is the space where women rise, rebuild, and rediscover their purpose. Remember this truth. You are bent, not broken. Today's guest has been on the show before, and I'm happy to have her back. Melinda Perry is a KBIS award-winning industry leader with over 20 years of experience empowering professionals to lead with confidence and purpose. She's a Gallup certified strengths coach, a best-selling author, a keynote speaker, and the founder of Happy Girls Don't Do That. Welcome back, Melinda.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Hi, thank you. This is so fun. I love doing this.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

It is a lot of fun. So the last time we heard your story and how you overcame the pain of divorce to find purpose. But I found out a little bit more about you and that you yourself are a product of divorce. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

So I am third-generation divorce. And so my grandparents on my dad's side had divorced. And it was it was interesting because I never knew them any other way. Growing up, I thought that everybody had two different sets, like four sets of grandparents. And you know, that was just my my way of knowing that that was your world.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

And the the funny thing is, is they were all friends, like not friends as in let's play cards every Friday night. I grew up having family vacations. My mom and my bonus dad, my dad and my bonus mom, my grandparents, their original marriage, along with their bonus partners, and my half siblings and my step siblings, all on family vacations, so to speak. So we would get together in Colorado at our cabin and go up and snowmobile, and the guys would all go hunting. And I didn't know any different. At one point, I had 12 grandparents.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Wow. Now, were you able to call them grandma, each one of them grandma and grandpa? They didn't differentiate.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

They all just took me in and they were my grandma and grandpa's. I didn't know my bonus mom. I got those grandparents when I was six years old, her parents. And then, you know, my dad's mom and dad on my grandmother's side, she married a wonderful gentleman, and him and his father were very prominent architects in Colorado. And so Mark Music and Olive, even though not blood, because he was my bonus granddad, they were my grandma and grandpa as well. I had 12 living grandparents at one time, and it was amazing. Best life ever.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Kudos to all of them for really blending the family amicably, right? I mean, that's not always the case.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

No, it's work. It's work. You have to be able to say, you know what? I loved you at one point. I don't necessarily in love with you, but you know, you're you gave us blessings along the way and embrace those. You have to be able, my friend told me once when I was getting divorced that there is a very fine line between love and hate. And it's thin, it's real thin that line. And we, when we're getting divorced, we walk it without realizing that just one step in either direction can make it or destroy it. And just like I say, happiness is a choice, that line is a choice. We choose what side of that line we're gonna walk on. And walking on the right side of that line will blend families beautifully, ex-families along with your regular family, and it's beneficial to the kids.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

And that choice, whatever that choice is, doesn't not only affect you and your spouse, it can affect your kids.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Absolutely. Like no other, which I didn't really realize it. I mean, I had glimpses of it growing up, but when I went through my divorce, I didn't realize until we were actually in the midst of it that those littles, your littles, know everything. They see everything. They may not talk about it, but they're watching, and that's how they learn is by what they're watching. So they're watching how you apologize, how you handle stressful situations, how you argue, how you fight, how you move forward with kindness, how you treat each other with respect. They're learning all of that. And it makes a huge difference how you move through that situation. And that is a choice as well. You know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lie, we had some moments, you know, in my divorce where it was not pretty, it was ugly. But can you learn to, you know, just say that's mistakes happen and we have emotionally charged, emotionally based decisions going on? And yeah, let's take a step back. And what I learned through coaching is it takes 20 minutes for your brain to reset. So everybody, doesn't matter how mad you are, doesn't matter what you're going through, if you just say, I need a timeout, it's still gonna be there when you come back. Whatever was going on is still gonna be there, it's not gonna go away, but your brain will shift. And if you just give yourself 20 minutes and give them 20 minutes and then come back to it, it you can come back to it with a fresher perspective.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

And one of the things that we I believe we should teach our kids too is how to forgive.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Including forgiving ourselves, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

But you know what's really sad is coaching parents for the last 10 years, there are so many parents who don't believe or understand that we need to apologize to our kids. It's okay to apologize to your kids. It doesn't make you a it actually makes you a better parent to apologize to your kids and say, look, that was a bad mom moment, or that was a bad dad moment. And I had no business acting that way. And I'm sorry that either you were involved or I'm sorry you got to witness that. And just know that I'm sorry, apologize for that. And I don't think we do that enough.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Good point. What's the most important thing you want parents to know who are getting divorced regarding their kids?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

We kind of touched on that, that they know everything. You don't need to, you don't need to sugarcoat it. Don't need to hide it because they already see it. My philosophy on parenting is, and you'll probably think I'm just crazy, but my philosophy is parenting. If you if it's not acceptable at the office, it's not acceptable at home. So that being said, if your co-walker came in and threw a temper tantrum on your floor, you would say, get out of my office. Why are you acting that way? Get out of my office. So it's I always say, treat your littles as if they're adults in training. And be that being said, they see everything. They know exactly what's going on. You don't need to sugarcoat it. You don't ever lie to them because they'll throw that lie right back in your face. And so I think as one of the most important things is you're going through this together. This is an all-in-one kind of scenario. And so, you know, help them understand it in their terms. That yeah, you have to, I always say have an adult conversation in three-year-old words.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Okay, because I was just gonna ask, what if you have three kids and they're different ages? One maybe could be two or three, the other is six, and then the other is nine. You can't communicate them all with the same way because they have different experiences, you're older and wiser. So is that the key is to talk to them with three-year-old words?

SPEAKER_00 9:13

I think so. And the other thing is go at it with curiosity. Like find out before you start rambling on stuff that they don't even care about, you know, or that's not what they're thinking. Ask them, go at it with curiosity. What do you think's going on? What do you want to talk about? Dad's going to this house, you're gonna go here and here on the weekends, and whatever that scenario looks like, just be straightforward and honest. Don't sugarcoat it, don't make it seem like it's this big horrible thing that's happening. In reality, they're gonna take on your emotions. And I will tell you from a strengths coach, they don't have your strengths. Strengths aren't genetic, so their strengths are completely different than yours. So go at it with a very even-keeled explanation with curiosity. Tell me what you see, tell me what you're feeling, and even ask them sometimes. They're smarter than we are. Ask them, how do you think I should deal with this? Let them solve your problem, give them some critical thinking skills. I did that a lot with my kids, and it was amazing the answers I got, especially from the youngest one.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

Interesting. Do you think divorced children come away with a different attitude about marriage or life?

SPEAKER_00 10:35

I do. I really do. And what well, first off, divorced kids see the worst of the marriage. They are gonna see the worst of it. And as they get older, I think a lot of them believe that life is too short to be unhappy. There's stuff that they won't tolerate because of what they've been through. And divorce is generational. If your parents get a divorce, it's gonna be so much easier for you to say divorce happens. And just like happiness is a choice, I think divorced kids look at life as I just want to be happy.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Okay. Do you find that divorced kids are more reluctant to get into relationships and marriages?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Are their eyes more wide open than Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

And I'm not saying that kids who parents have been together forever don't see that too. They've seen the struggles, but they have a different skill set. Kids whose parents have stayed together have that skill set that they learn how to work through conflict resolutions. They understand that love changes and love grows, and you may not like the person for the minute, but you still love them. And divorced kids don't always see that. And they're not always willing to jump into that. It's a huge learning curve for divorced kids to look at something and say, I don't know that I can. They always say I'm gonna be with it for the long haul, but I don't think they understand exactly what that means.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

I don't know if you know this or not, but are the statistics for divorced kids higher that they will get them divorced themselves than if they came from a husband and wife that were married for 40 plus years?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

They are higher. And it's generational, so you have a greater chance. And you want to know the really sad statistic is over half of our population is divorced. It's one of the highest growing demographics in our country. And so we just don't have the tolerance or the skill set anymore to have that conflict resolution. And with instant gratification on everything now, gaming, internet, even education right now, we don't have society as a whole, I think, doesn't have the patience to withstand three months of growth.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

And on top of that divorce statistic, one of the higher rating statistics coming out is the gray divorce. You know, those couples that have been together for 40, 50 plus years, they're in their 50s, 60s, 70s, and they now are deciding to get divorced after many years of marriage, and that presents a whole different complex of issues with their adult children.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

And I have a friend whose mom is 80 years old and just got remarried. And so it brings a whole different, you know, you have to change your perspective and say, you know what? She's happy. It's it's a good thing. It's how much trouble can your 80-year-old mother get into? I mean, you just have to be happy for him and go at it again with curiosity. What is your life like? What are your plans? Where are you going with this? And just be happy for him. I think sometimes we just forget that happiness brings a whole different perspective to the playground.

SPEAKER_01 14:42

What was the best tool or advice your parents taught you about divorce or blending a family?

SPEAKER_00 14:49

I love this question. They taught me what parent family meeting looks like. So when my dad, so my bonus dad, he was a retired military captain. He was a captain in the army, Vietnam. I always say he was a Vietnam badass. When they got married and we moved into an apartment, they brought all us kids together, four of us, and said, here's the thing: we're having a family meeting. We do not intend on ever getting divorced. We're a family. You're gonna treat this unit as a family. Your brothers and sisters, this is your mom. I am the dad. This is what we're gonna do. You will treat each other with respect. They laid the law down, and there was none of this playing one parent against the other, even like that was not allowed, and that takes communication. They were my mom was in communication with their mom on what was allowed and what wasn't allowed. And my bonus mom will tell you, I knew never to cross, I was afraid of your mom. So I was never gonna do anything that allowed you to, but that has to be communication and you have to work together as a team. And if you're not a team, it won't work. And if you don't have that team mentality and do things together so that you have time to grow and love each other, you're never gonna make it work. You're just going at it already broken.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

Have you encountered situations where one parent has a different set of values than the other parent? How do you make that work? I know part of it's got to be communication, but if there's this, you know, I don't agree with that rule type of thing, how do you get that to work?

SPEAKER_00 16:46

A lot of my clients have come across that before with a lot of them. Your rules are your rules in your home. And so a lot of times when you divorce and you have kids, you think that it's your job to be in the other parents' business. And it's not. It's not. Your only job is to make sure that you're raising healthy, happy children and that they're abiding by rules. And and they should follow your rules at your house, and they're gonna have a different set of rules at home, they have a different life, and I think that's fair. I mean, if your values are different, and usually they are, that's why you got divorced in the first place. Teach your kids to be adaptable, take the best of both worlds. My mom's house. So at my bonus, give you an example, at home, we had chores, and we did. I used to hate it because my dish night was after my sister's, and she would bake all day on her day and then leave them in the sink to soak all night. So they'd end up on my day. And but we still had chores to follow, and we had a complete set of rules. When I went to my dad, my lifestyle was completely different. My bonus mom didn't work, so she was home all day and was able to keep me in line and do things with me, and we would go places together, and that was not the case at home. Both our parents worked at my mom's house, so the rules were different, and that's okay. I took away the best of both worlds, and I think that made me a better parent because I took the strengths from both of them and were able to implement them. My littles went to their opposite parents, and there's this one thing that most parents don't realize is if you have the situation where they're gone for the summer and then they come back, you have to give them grace. They have a readjustment period, and it takes about a good 10 days to realize that this is their home and they don't have to ask for certain privileges or the rules are reset, and it takes them a while to do that. Be patient with them, and then they'll come back and they go through the same thing when they go to the other parent's house. It's just a period of adjustment, and that's okay. Teaches us adaptability.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

It does. Do you ever find that the kids try to push that button on the other parent?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

If you allow it.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

If it's allowed, yes. If you put it in the form of a rule, and that's why I love family meetings Sunday night after dinner every week. Find out what their schedules are, find out what they're struggling with, do a quick little game or an icebreaker, find out where their mindset is about everything and reiterate some of the rules. I see you broke, you know. Oh, I thought you thought you could stay out later than the streetlight. Well, that's that doesn't happen at this house. So we just re-remind them. It takes communication. If you're not communicating, you don't be mad when things don't go your way. You don't get to be mad.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Tell me about the fine line and why it's like.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

We talked about that fine line between love and hate. It's just you choose to walk that line. And unfortunately, sometimes your kids will choose to walk that too. And that's not really fair on the other parent. And the one thing that I will tell you is you don't need to talk bad about the other parent. Ever. Don't ever, ever, ever do that. Your kids will see through all the red tape as they get older. Their character flaws will show up. And it's better for them to make that decision and see that than it is for you to tell them. Because if you're telling them, that just gives you makes you look ugly. That's your that becomes your character flaw. And just let the kids, let the littles discover that on their own.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

And it goes back to something that you said earlier. They see all of this stuff. They may not process it. If they're three, they're seeing certain things in their three-year-old view. If they're nine, they're seeing things from their nine-year-old viewpoint. But I've seen this happen with my kids. And it's taken once they get to be 18, 19, 20, they start going out into the world, going to college, meeting other people. They start seeing the bigger picture. And I've had some interesting conversations with my own.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Well, and remember too that they're not done baking, guys aren't done baking until they're 26, 27 years old. And girls are done baking 24, 23 around there. So they're gonna see that perspective in a whole different Light when you know it's like as a parent, you say he never listens to meet your kid. And then when they're about 30, they're like, Oh, mom, can you do this or can we, you know? And I remember you said this, and you're like, Oh, you're getting it now. I see, I see you're getting it. But yeah, you don't ever say it, you don't have to say anything. They will discover all of that on their own. And that's better. It's better to see it through their own eyes instead of yours. Your eyes are skewed anyway. You loved them once, or you loved her once, and now that's broken. But you have to always remember that you did love each other enough to bring a child in. So at one point you did love each other.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

I agree. What's the magic ratio and how do we use it?

SPEAKER_00 22:49

So the magic ratio is five to one. Five to one. Okay. Okay. So it takes five positives for every one negative.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

So if you yelled at your little about something that you've told him a thousand times to do, and it was a really bad day, and you expressed it that way, then you're in order to break that cycle, or it's sometimes an apology isn't even enough. In order to break that, you need to counter that with five positives. And that's going to be dependent on what positives look like in your family.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

So let me reiterate. So you yell at your kid, they obviously now have a certain mindset in their thought process, and maybe they're thinking negative thoughts about themselves.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

So it takes five positive comments, maybe activities doing nice things, kind things, group activities to shift that.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Shift that gear for them.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Now, is that within a 24-hour period or it You know, I think it depends on your kid.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Um here I say kid, and I'm I just broke my own rule because our kids aren't goats. They don't eat. When you they're all different, and so that positive, you know, might be a reading a bedtime story together or coloring at the table or helping with homework, whatever that is, whatever that looks like, it's five positives. So I had a client and she's still a client. She ended up being a really great friend. And we went through this in parenting class, the five ratios. And all the way through the class till we got up to this point, she kept saying, I'm not, I don't know, this is so different. I don't necessarily agree with it. It kind of went on, and then we got to this one. And she came to class and said, I didn't realize how negative I was. She said, I didn't realize that before they would even get out what they wanted to do, my answer was always no. My answer was always get to school. We'll talk about it later. She said, I was so tired and physically exhausted from work and the littles that my response was always no. She said, I didn't realize how negative I was as a parent till I did this activity. So it works if you try it. So I always do just do a sheet and with little marks across it and boxes and check it off, or do it as a family where you have one on the refrigerator and everybody's name. And if you get a negative in there, write it in, mark it in red, and then see how long it takes you to get those five positives in.

unknown 26:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

It's a wonder activity.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

And then how do you know that your child has shifted their mindset from that negative?

SPEAKER_00 26:14

You can also ask them, say how apologize. I'm sorry I said that. Are we are you okay with this? Are we in a good spot now? Or is there something else I can do to make this better? Because they're learning how to apologize from you. Everything you do, they're watching. Like little hawks, little baby hawks. And so, yeah, just treat it like you would at the office.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

And it boils down to loss of communication.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

It does, it really does, you know, and positive. Like there's no, there just comes a point where you just don't have to be ugly anymore. I mean, it's not doing anybody any good. You're not getting anywhere, you're not getting further by being ugly to somebody.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

No, it's a lot of wasted energy, I feel.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah. And your kids are picking up on that. So you're if you're being ugly, you're teaching them how to be ugly. And that's another thing. You know, bullies are generational too. So that comes down the pipeline as well. So the worst thing you want is a bully who's generationally ready for divorce.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

That's yeah, you've got a point there. Can divorce be positive? And if so, how do we do it?

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yes, I think divorce can be positive. And first, you have to do the work yourself. You can't. My philosophy is don't expect them to do all the work. Like you, we're so angry when we get divorced or we're so hurt that we think it's on them to change, but it's not. And one of the biggest things I learned is when I was going through my divorce, is I was reactionary. So, Dr. Phil, I read Dr. Phil's book one time when I was getting divorced. And one of the questions he asked is, What part of the divorce are you gonna own? What part do you own? And at the end of the day, you have to own your stuff. And I was reading that and I thought, I didn't do any of this. And I sat on it for a little while and I thought, wait a minute, what did I own? What was I gonna own? And sometimes it's the way we react, sometimes it's the fact that we don't react at all, sometimes it's a phrase we use all the time, and we know it bothers them, and we're just being passive aggressive. And the biggest part I learned in that was I was reactionary. I needed to own that I was reactionary. It was very hard to, when I was angry, to sit down and have a conversation with me without it turning into a flowbone fight. And so my biggest thing is about being friendly in a divorce is work on you first. If you work on you and you come at the table with a better attitude and a nicer disposition, and you can admit your flaws or apologize for the mistakes you made, you're gonna change the trajectory of and not only that, but it's a smoother transition in all the paperwork, all the division of property, how your littles are being receiving the information, and it makes a big difference. I remember my best friend, Sherry, in elementary school. We were inseparable. We met each other in kindergarten and became instant friends. And in third grade, we rode the same bus. And she I said, What is wrong with you? I remembered this day so clear. I said, What is wrong with you? Because she was mopey and everything. And she said, My mom and dad are getting a divorce. And I said, My third grade self, my third grade Disney-esque attitude said, Oh, well, that's nothing to be sad about. You're gonna have two Christmases and two birthdays, and two parents, and maybe four parents who love you, and all these wonderful grandparents that love you. And your life's gonna be so much better because they won't be fighting all the time. They won't be angry all the time. You'll get to experience both parents happy, and it's true. And I was taught that by my grandparents and my mom and dad. So I think we have to look at what we own, what's our fault first.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

I agree. That was one of the things when I got a divorce. It wasn't about blaming him. I had to figure out what part did I play? I had to work on that.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Punch in the gut, isn't it? You have to admit, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

And it's about being accountable. Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, it takes two people to make a relationship work or to make it not work. And what part did you play?

SPEAKER_00 31:26

And I think that's the hardest part of it. Once you get that all on the table, then you can start sweeping it into the trash can and making changes. And you'll not only feel better about it, but your ex will feel better about it. Your kids will feel better about it, and even your friends will start to see you in a better light. You know, they're not our friends are there for certain things, but the word the last thing they want to do is be your sounding board 24-7 a day because you're not ready to own your stuff.

unknown 32:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

Yeah. I believe you just had recently had a book release, published. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Um, The Mission Hope is that the one? Yes. So it's Mission Hope Miracles is the last one. And so this was the number one best-selling one. And it's a compilation book with several different authors. What I love about these books is they're so inspirational. You can be going through anything in a day and open that book up to any chapter and take 15, 20 minutes to read it, and come away with a whole different mindset and a different perspective on where you are going. So I love these books and I'm very honored to be in it with some amazing authors.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Very cool. So, how can people get the book and how can people reach out to you?

SPEAKER_00 33:03

So they can reach out to me on my email, Melinda Perry. It's Melinda with an a dot j dot perry at gmail.com, or you can always find me through happygirls.org. And the books, I believe, are on sale at Amazon. So they are. And yeah, I'm gonna open book questions or concerns, or just want to chat about it. I'm good. I'll hang with you for a little bit and walk you off the ledge.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

Sounds good. Thank you so much for your time today. And for really making it sound like divorce can be a positive experience for the couple divorcing and mostly for the kids.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Yeah. Well, the kids are the kids are it. Yeah, there's a future. Yeah, we're just we're just the helpers in the mix. The kids actually on the show. So right.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Appreciate it. Thank you again, Melinda. I've enjoyed it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

It was wonderful. I'm so grateful.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Thank you for listening to today's episode of Bent Not Broken. I hope that this episode reminded you that even through life's toughest moments, you are bent, not broken. If this message inspired you, please share, rate, review, and subscribe, as it helps us reach more women who are ready to rise and rebuild. And until next time, keep living bold and walking in your purpose.