From Sharks to the Sea: Denise Sotomayor’s Journey into Ocean Videography

1:00:03 Welcome back to another episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. On the podcast today, we are gonna be talking to videographer and documentary maker, Denise Sotomayor. She is going to be here to talk about her adventures in becoming a videographer for not only just sharks, but just for the ocean in general. She talks a lot about her first project, which is very unique and I wanna give it away. She talks about a whale shark project and she talks about a project that she's working with our very own Dr. David Ebert. So we're gonna talk about that on today's episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. I'm your co-host Andrew Lewin here with my co-host, Dr. David Ebert.

1:00:45 Dave, are you ready to talk to Denise? Absolutely, I've been waiting for this episode for a while Andrew. We try to wanna have it kind of, I know. We wanna coincide this with the first episode of the Searching for Lost Sharks, the Extinct or Alive new documentary series that's just premiered on my YouTube channel and Lost Shark Guy. And I hope you'll go over there and check it out. But yeah, Denise has been doing the filming. This is a Save RC's foundation funded program. And Denise has been doing the filming the last couple of years. We spent the first year as you'll see, going to Ecuador and Peru to look for a lot, Ecuador's Lost Shark.

1:01:28 And I don't wanna give away the punchline yet, but it's been an amazing experience. But Denise has, she has an interesting story to tell. Like I said, I kind of had me spend some time. I kind of knew it a little bit, but I think a lot of the listeners today will find it quite fascinating her journey. It wasn't like a lot of the people we have on here who just, from the time they're a kid, they know what they're gonna do. Denise really, it was a journey for her to get to where she is. And I really hope you enjoy it because it was fascinating story. It is. And Denise is so great to talk to. We always love talking to her and loved having her on the podcast and can't wait to have her again. But let's get to the interview, Dave.

1:02:08 Here is Denise talking about her adventures in underwater filmography, as well as just telling really great stories and her long projects that she loves so much. So enjoy, and we'll talk to you after. Hey, Denise, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Are you ready to talk about filming sharks? Ready. I love it. I love it. Very excited. Nice. We want to welcome her to another episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast where we have an outstanding independent journalist, underwater camera woman, and educator. Denise Sotomayor from Peru has documented scientific expeditions worldwide. She's deeply interested in sharks, artificial reefs, and Antarctica, a continent which is visited twice to cover Peru's scientific efforts on the continent.

1:02:54 Her work has been exhibited in prominent museums throughout Peru. She's created an underwater photography exhibition at 15 meters depth and enjoys exploring informative formats to communicate about the ocean, such as video games, camera-less photography, which I don't know what that is, but I'm sure she'll tell us, and virtual reality. She's led educational exhibits in Minecraft, which currently exhibits at 360 degrees screens in several Latin American airports. And I've actually seen this and it's pretty amazing to see. And she also teaches nature photography at the University of Scientifica del Sur, integrating art and marine conservation. She worked on projects as a cameraman for national and international NGOs such as WWF and Oceana and among others.

1:03:41 And she's wrote and directed an e-book featuring Peruvian women for nature that features 10 Peruvian women CEOs who preserve nature with their businesses. Over the past two years, she's been filming a new YouTube documentary series, "Searching for Lost Sharks, Extinct or Alive" that I actually wrote and produced with support from the Save Our Seas Foundation. And in that journey, we've been to five continents and over a dozen countries searching for and documenting poorly known shark species that may be vanishing before our eyes. And you'll be able to catch that on YouTube. Her currently, as I mentioned, she's a freelance journalist. She did her degree at the University of Lima in journalism. And with that introduction, Denise, welcome to the show.

1:04:26 Hello, Dave. Thank you. Thank you very much for this introduction. And hello, Andrew. Very happy to be with you. So it's been a long time coming. That's that's for sure. We've been wanting to have you on the show for quite some time. Yep. Yep. And so Denise, we ask all of our our guests kind of the same question to start off the interview is like, how did you get interested in the field of of diving underwater photography and sharks? Well, I think it was a process. My father is a commercial diver, actually.

1:05:09 So he's I don't know, tools for working always was the fins, masks, wetsuits. Of course, for commercial diving, they have a very big boys to take out the wrecks and all the cool stuff that commercial divers do. And so that's how I get interested in the ocean. I think since the beginning of my life, I was related. Everything around me was around the ocean. I grew up also in the north of Peru in coastal city and very actually is a very important for fisheries.

1:05:53 So a lot of community around fishing. And I think that's why when you are too close to something, you don't pay much attention to that. So that's why it takes me a little to realize that that's a work that I want to do. So I just follow the I didn't think that that was a diving was the thing that I want to do for living because I didn't know no one in that time, like, I don't know, like 15 years or 20 years ago.

1:06:33 I didn't have any reference about the divers, photo filmmakers or photographers underwater. So I always associate diving for commercial diving. And for me, was fun, but they do very crazy things and dangerous and they sometimes they don't see what they are doing. Everything is black water. So for me, it was not the thing that I dream to do. So, yeah, so when I finished college, I became a journalist always.

1:07:17 I love the ocean. But then I, well, I started reporting crimes for three years and then I realized I didn't like that. It to report that kind of things. So I quit in the newspaper that I was writing, actually. So that's why it was a long process in the newspaper. I realized I really like the photography because when I went as a reporter, I saw the photographers and I was like, this is a cool job. So I want to learn that. So they explain me a lot and I learned in the field about photojournalism.

1:08:04 But then I didn't like how that the things that I was reporting. So I quit. I quit the newspaper and I start searching for stories that I really like to tell or to write or to take pictures. So my first story or long story because it took me a lot to get to that place was Antarctica and was in 2011. And I went to the minister of foreign affairs of my country. And that's a thing that I learned in journalism that you can call anyone in the government and make an appointment and tell that you can call anyone in the government and make an appointment and tell that you can call anyone in the government.

1:08:48 And that's a thing that I learned in journalism that you can make an appointment and tell that you have something to say. So I called the minister of foreign affairs. I said I make the appointment, sent a letter, everything explain why they need a journalist in Antarctica because was important to to a spread the knowledge of science in polar science in Peru. And no one's know about that in Peru. So they they said, OK, no, any you're not in journalism wants to do that.

1:09:28 So, OK, was not that easy, of course, to me, like one year and a lot of the meetings and because also I was very young. But at the end, I went and I did a good job and I did some exhibition in Metropolitan Museum in Lima and the Navy Museum. Some became a kind of popular job or good results. So I said, OK, so this is the thing that I want to do. I don't want to do quick stories like in journalism. I write two or three stories a day for crimes. So I want to take one year or two years or 16 years.

1:10:12 I don't care to one story. I like the very long process. I like to meet my characters or understand the problem. So then I can understand where is the best way to to see it in a video game or in a or in YouTube or in a screen in the airport. So with that, they start paying attention to another story. And in the north of Peru, I hear underwater a painter that he paints and sell here in Canvas, his canvas on the beach.

1:10:56 He said, I want to paint underwater. And I was what? How you are going to do that? So he told me, well, I'm I'm doing all these practice in like a fishing pool. How do you say like these things for fishes in your house? Yeah. So he have a he did a big one for his canvas and put the canvas for the salt water. So he started doing all the process for for the painting itself. How is gonna get in the canvas and go in the water?

1:11:37 So I hear that story and I said, this is the story I want to to tell. So for that story, I have to be underwater, too. So that's why I said, okay, I when I was 15, I did my first body life master, no body open water, the first degree of the open water. Yeah, yeah. So I started the idea again because it was a lot of time ago and actually I didn't use it. Right. So I did it again. And I went to all a lot of brands to create the project or get the fundings to do this or to tell this story.

1:12:29 So that's how I start. I put my cameras in the ocean. And when I saw that and or the feeling of shooting and get that instant with all the things that you have to think when you have all these scuba gear and the movement and the core and you cannot take and put like I will like this girl here. So you don't. So you don't.

1:13:13 So my footage was terrible because my stability. I was very excited. So when you put air in your lungs, you go up and you go down. So if you're excited, you are like this and your video is like this. So you can focus. So but even all the result of this first experience was terrible. That feeling was so amazing that I was OK. So this is a thing that I like to do. The stories that I really like are underwater and there are long stories sometimes takes me.

1:13:55 I don't know. But I don't like the short report. Right. Right. I sometimes if I have to do it and it's a work, of course, I can do it. But the things that I like is to take the time for that story. Yeah. So this underwater photographer painter actually show me my career. So his dream show me my path. So this is so this is literally just a guy on the beach painting who wanted to paint underwater that inspired you.

1:14:36 That's yeah, go ahead. That's amazing because he was 46 or 47 years old when I met him and he was dreaming with that since he was six because he was he is the son of a very important fisherman in the north of Peru. The father already died with his very well-known because it was a very good as per fisherman. So everyone knows him. So his father takes the groupers or the fishes to the house and Pasquale the painter he painted and his father tell him always the colors of the grouper are not is there is not like Brown like you are saying now when he's underwater is another colors.

1:15:41 So he think in that moment. I want to take my colors underwater to see a color something that's the connection that he did when he was six and he was dreaming with that 40 years until he just say it to some and someone here not only here you pay attention really be a decision and said like this. This is do you still keep in touch with them. You still keep on actually yes, he wants to act the way he's Guinness record now painting 10 meters canvas and the water he wants to record that of course I love it.

1:16:26 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he needs to get the fund is now. Yeah, I was going to ask you know the the you mentioned the being you went and got the funding for it to do that but this is your first time doing it how. One how did you where did you find the funding and then also like how did you know what how much everything was going to cost since it was your first time. Well, very good questions first. Well, actually was not not the first one because the first a project where I need that get the funnies was Antarctica and because I did this. Oh, right. The museums. Right. So for those I get this training of how to get and actually is like you just go or write an email not one probably 100 and then some other.

1:17:19 I'm one one answer you and then you just keep going. And so I have the experience of Antarctica but Antarctica was very I already get the footage when I get to the brand. So the brands was okay this school and was easier. The second part this painter actually he didn't know how to dive. So we we start. Yeah, we have to do everything since the beginning. I was crazy. I don't know how I get involved in that very big project because cost a lot like we don't have any money.

1:18:05 So in a way, you know, it's interesting that because you said you initially got certified when you're 15 but you never really dove. And how long was it before you went back to do your recertification and started to really take this on as a passion? How many was a time difference? How many years later? I think what I think was around 10 years and years. I was 25. Yeah, that's when I came back to water and that and that that and that's that's pretty it's that's pretty interesting because most a lot of the people we interview they get when they're really young they start into it. But but with you is more of a process and the thing is because your dad was diving and because he was commercial diving.

1:18:48 You're like, I don't really want to dive in all that black water where they can't see anything. He was think that was what kind of that really turned you off to get to doing the diving. Yes, and actually because I didn't and because I didn't know in that times we didn't have a GoPro or something. And my father tried to explain me, but I actually didn't understand his work. And now if I I don't know if I have some more time or whatever in between filmmaking, I would like to to do some commercial. I think it's amazing.

1:19:29 It's just like you have to go invest a lot of money and time and they get to that. So I don't know if I want to just turn in that path. But I think it's amazing. But yeah, he tried to explain me and what he's trying to explain was not enough for me to say, okay, I want to do that. And yeah, and actually I did my my open water at 15, but I did some trainings or some diving with my father. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have a compressor and tanks in my house.

1:20:11 So we want. Yeah. Yeah. So you got you got really inspired because of this painter you met on the beach that you're still friends with and and you cook off. And I've seen I've seen some of your underwater stuff and it's if you haven't had a chance, we'll post a thing. We go check out some of her Instagram stuff. She has amazing underwater. Yeah, it's amazing. Looking at it right now. Yeah, it's pretty amazing. It's pretty amazing stuff. So as you got it, you start getting into the sort of the marine once you got into the the the diving, you're doing your journalism, your videography. And they're probably I guess they're probably not too many women in Peru who do underwater photography. Or am I wrong about that?

1:20:54 Yeah, I think we are. I'm one of the first ones. Some people said like I'm kind of one of the first photographers. I know one big river. How long are you going to be? Oh, probably another hour. Okay. Sorry, my dad. My dad came in. Yeah. Anyway, sorry. It's okay. Okay. Sorry. In a minute. Perhaps you could start starting again about that. I'm sorry. Yeah. Being underwater. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Well, about the girls under water in Peru.

1:21:37 Yes, I think I'm one of the first ones. Yeah, females underwater photographers in Peru. Yeah, yes. So imagine like the family of school was very, very few people, very little.

1:22:17 So when I start taking these pictures and sharing it, a lot of people get surprised about that. So I think that was something that the people that start following me because I'm showing a part of Peru that they not see very often. So, yeah. So now there are a lot of not a lot, but we are more females underwater. Yes. And I did some workshops for that too, with that intention to certificate some underwater photographers because we need more eyes under the sea.

1:23:04 What time did you start to get more take more of a conservation interest in your work? I think the conservation starts in Antarctica because the first time that I went there because you can realize in that time also we didn't have enough social media. Instagram was just in the beginning was 2011. No tourism there and was very pristine place. And so I guess and it was the first time that I have I been in a scientific expedition.

1:23:50 So the things that they were talking around is that I started learning a lot of. Okay. So this is not a report. Only a report is an opportunity also to show the people what's happening about the in climate about the ocean or just to know what's happening in Antarctica and animals or so I think I start there. And in I start growing in conservation in every story and also because now I think is kind of trendy and it's good to be trendy the conservation.

1:24:40 So now more people is talking about about that and trying to tell stories around that. So I know I try to pick that that type of stories to. Why what makes you want to do those types of stories the conservation stories like what makes you want to tell those stories as a journalist. I think because it's a kind of hope probably is I'm taking a picture and I really know that this picture is not going to save the planet. So I need something around around this picture.

1:25:23 I need information. I need science. I need. So I think this when your projects are complex also is you learn a lot in the process. And that's the thing that I always try to to to pay attention in the story. I'm going to pick if I'm going to what I'm going to learn here. If I'm going to learn a lot, this already paid. So is what I'm going to learn here and also what I'm going to bring when he's published.

1:26:05 Someone is going to read it and think in hope in in possibility to a do the things better. So that's why also I tried not to to talk about bad stories, not bad stories. We can talk about sharks and we don't have to talk about it. We have a lot of I don't know how to explain this in the right way, but you have a lot of options to talk about sharks.

1:26:46 And one of them is all the blood, all the fishing, overfishing. And this is a and this is a very important part to tell also. But you have another way to talk about sharks. And I think it's important to explore another ways, not only the impact things. Because, for example, for lost shark is amazing to search for sharks that they are that most of people can see their extinct or they are and and that's a story.

1:27:32 And that's amazing story to talk about shark conservation, what is important. And I'm not seeing a lot of blood and bad things. I don't know. I don't want to. It sounds bad. No, it's not. I don't know. Like that's important to see also that kind of picture. But I think that's not the only way to get closer to the people. And I think if you have more different ways to tell about the same subject sharks, you can get in different ages also or interest people.

1:28:19 Well, I think I think I think too is that with the and you've certainly I know that we'll talk a little more in a few minutes about about the last sharks program. But you really get the feel for the places just we've been to that the communities and a lot of those places, how important food security is. And if all they're catching are certain shark species, that's about all. I mean, they don't catch anything they don't eat. And so there it's it's a really it seems like it's a real delicate. Well, it is. It's a real delicate balance between food security and then a conservation thing that I obviously that's part of the story being able to capture that. Have you have you did you have much experience with that before and some of the some of the projects you've worked on about the food security?

1:29:08 But yeah, yeah, but with some of these small with some of the small communities where we're food security is an issue and then you've got certain conservation concerns. Well, I from Peru that we have I think that it's a problem like when we were in Indonesia that they have a lot of the one of the biggest or I think the biggest shark fishing in the world. And but in Peru, we have the same and one of the things is what they just said is they need to eat and they are not thinking in I'm going to take care of the shark.

1:29:54 I need to eat whatever. Yeah. So I work a lot in fishing communities. So I work a lot in fishing communities. So I work a lot in fishing communities. subject that you can create a healthy spaces, nest and hiding places for predators to get a healthy place and then the fishes goes to the reef more near to the coast and the fishermen can get the fishes and everyone is happy.

1:30:55 So I think that food security is involved in most of the ocean projects that I'm working. How do you feel about some of the, I know some of your exhibits like I know the one that's been it's been some of the airports around and some of your other exhibits have been shown around how do you, well first of all can you talk a little bit about those then how do you feel about being able to like convey that message to a large number of people because people are always going through airports for example. Yeah that was an amazing journey and still an amazing journey will be two years in ten airports around Latin America. We started in Colombia in El Dorado the international airport and in when was the COP 16 was in October last year so the these screens were in the airport and was a screens for eight meters long I didn't see it that's a thing that I really want to see it and now I'm living in Mexico and I know one of the the next screens will be in Mexico so I hope I can see it I can fly just to see my work. A lot of people who went to the COP and went to Colombia send me the

1:32:29 pictures and was amazing because also connect me with people a friend from high school that I didn't see here for a very long time send me I just see like I saw your work in the airport and send me a picture and was like that's amazing I think that yeah that things are very like full you know or feel your soul and your heart right like when your work is in public places is very cool too. How did you how did you get the connection there to be able to do that go to the airport exhibits how that that was pretty impressive like how did how did you get that kind of connection? I send an email.

1:33:18 Send an email. Yes, I literally saw it on Instagram I said I really like it and I think my work and work very good here and I sent an email and they said yes and actually was super cool because was a like a no-paid situation how do you say like a interchange and they do it like all the 3D things for free and give me the experience for free and I did I bring my work for free but then like NGO was interest in feature the logo there so we need to ask how much they charge me for that and was a $350,000 to be there and I was okay so I didn't make the money but I'm in a place that goes like that and so that things that you never if you think that you have to pay it or get the funding maybe that's not the way that's the longest way maybe I didn't know that probably if I knew that that's

1:34:49 the thing that maybe it scares you too right as a yeah as a dreamer or whatever like you have that dream and they tell you yeah but this is cost almost half a million and you say no I'm not gonna send the email but please send it yeah you just never know you never know yes exactly and they were amazing and they want to do more things and they want to put sharks also I want to also start working with more underwater things for them that the footage are showing it is from Antarctica so I'm trying to bring Antarctica to latino america because we are very near we do a lot of science there and in our region is not well know the polar science so yeah you didn't know last year being in a yo go ahead I'm sorry no it's just like being in a public place or an airport give you a possibility that people don't go to see it it's just like they are doing something and the artist going to you right like uh so you don't have to go to the museum or specific places it's just you are walking and the information is just as you and if you are paying attention you get it you know you spent last year you were you did like what a three-month cruise to

1:36:20 antarctica that was your second trip last year and you were yes working doing stuff for the peruvian navy was it uh yes that the first expedition was with the minister of foreign affairs and i stayed three months in the scientific station the name is macho pichu and the ten years um after uh i went with the vessel the oceanography vessel from the navy that is all implemented for science and i stay on board for the 90 days for three months uh there wow wow was a lot to be in the in a boat it's a lot of time it was amazing but yeah very challenging in some parts too yeah yeah for sure i mean three months that's a long time that's a long time and not good connection right i don't know how i did it the first time because we did twice yes the first time was in 2011 right three months in the on land in the machu Picchu station oh yeah and ten years after was uh on the vessel on the oceanographic vessel three months and so the first time was no

1:37:50 internet uh of course we don't have anything i have to bring a usb to the poland station the this artoski and so every time that something happened like we need uh some something from poland that is near the station well and brazil so i sent the usb to a communication guy and the communication guy sent it to an email and he called me a radio and tell me i already sent your email to the new paper so that was all and ten years after i couldn't send an email and i get stressed and we didn't have good internet in some points but we have so was different things also i have a room for myself in this explanation that this luxury is the best things that you can have in antarctica or in a place for working for three months with 100 people so your private place is gold so and in the first time uh 10 years ago i went and i shared room for with we only went like three girls so we were in the one room yeah but also now there are more

1:39:22 girls so in the station they share is one bathroom for all the girls and one bathroom for all the boys okay it's kind of a mess and so yeah so when i went there and i saw that i was like how i did that i was young yeah that's it you were young that's uh yeah yeah so another another project you've been working on this was with national geographic on on whale sharks on peru your is yes it's not with nadir national uraphic but the director of the film of the film she is a nadir explorer okay okay okay okay yeah so she is that she but it's not enough it's not a national okay no now we won uh sand dance um sand dance funding uh sundance funding yes sandbox is the name of sand box okay uh-huh and then we won a co-production now with the uh canarias government in spain so we have uh now some fundings but yeah yeah that project is amazing because we start four years ago in well we are

1:40:53 ready three years recording in peru at the north of peru we have whale sharks aggregation of whale sharks and this story is about yeah so no good no good yes say tell set the story up for everybody what what your what your this project yeah the story is about um an a fisher engineer how do you say in canada percura engineer for fishing engineer yes machine yeah yeah yeah how he's an engineer but for fisheries okay okay well well she's a scientist is not marine biologist she's uh in canada pescera and she uh worked with whale sharks at the north of peru um um um um a kit start helping her to do her research um so now this kit is already 14 years old we start recording when he was 11 and he start going to swim with the whale sharks and help a a lejandra and he start um growing in this filming and also we as a team as a documentary team also we start

1:42:25 growing because we start with no fundings and then we start like growing um also our cameras are growing um so the interesting thing that the director also is trying to show in her film is the progress that this kit do in the same that the image start a progress or being different uh so we went uh already three years we go every year one month in november to to peru to the north of peru and we stay in in a house and go every time to see the whale sharks last year we talk well we know i'm not i didn't talk any but they talk uh you filled them tags yes i feel the time and film the time is very uh is it's fast i was impressed when i did you you didn't know i think when you are in the action but then when i download my information my clips were one minute one no twenty one and since i was in the boat so it's the boat my legs my fins everything the jump the swimming to get the shark to tag it and then combat everything all

1:43:56 in a minute i was like wow this is so fast uh so you have to pay attention like the 100 focus is a lot of adrenaline and in peru we don't have the visibility like in another country so you see the whale shark one is already here um very close so actually i in places like here in mexico for example when i see the i saw the whale sharks you see all the animal all the whale shark like most of the people think that they are gonna see it like in philippines or in baja in the past you can see that or even i think in porto lopez or you can see the whale shark except when we were there but except exactly exactly and that's a thing that i want to tell also because when you are really looking for something sometimes and most of the time it's gonna be elusive very difficult to get it and that's that happened to us this year actually this is our third year going to the whale sharks last year we taxi it was very good for footage but we don't have the complete animal so because last year was el nino and brings a lot of food so that's a lot of sediment and is in between you and the shark is a lot of

1:45:27 food right so it's very in peru is very productive in food so there is a lot of sediment in between you and the animal so now with glaninha we have the option the cold water is more clear and we don't have that much food in between so we want the the proper footage of the whale shark because also the film is ever and the sharks and we don't have a shark complete shark and we already are three years filming so this year we went one month to the to the water to the ocean and we don't we don't see any shark not one not even one not the other one it was crazy and it was crazy and yeah that happened you never know like last year was good but the the visibility was not the best but we have a lot of sharks but but part of sharks right like yeah yeah and we are but the thing is in these years these kids also grew up and he starts being or thinking in being a marine biologist but now he's he's he's living or his family is very poor is living in a fishing

1:46:59 village in the north of peru in very in very poor conditions so now they are paying him to go to to the boat to fish for more like industrial fishing yeah and he's going because he needs the money and her mother needs the money and so the reality now is getting or being more present that because now he's almost 15 and he needs to or go to the sea and get that cash for the day or go to the university and get the plan but he don't have the resource for that and how he's going to get it so he's he's this dream is very far now um so that's a thing that we are we don't know what's going to happen because it's a documentary for the director also sometimes it's very difficult because sometimes she wants that i have an idea and then everything turns to the other idea to to the opposite you never know but i'm very grateful to be in this process because also i learned along how to do cinema in latin america is very different and it's very different to do sin sinne than a serious a

1:48:31 serious or a documentary a short documentary or this is a long one so it's the creative process that what you start thinking was a story at the beginning of change so your camera maybe change so everything yeah and you have to be open for that and be flexible in that creativity so i think i like uh i really like that and i'm done the water camera in that how many more how many more years do you see that you think you'll film on this project well the director said that this was the last year but we didn't get any sharks oh so you'll do at least one more yes one more year okay okay at least one to finish up sorry so so let's let's talk a little bit about this project you and i've been working on um with the uh it's title it's a it's a save our seas funded it was a keystone uh grant project to uh highlight these law sharks that i look around for and the project title is searching for law sharks extinct or alive and uh denise has been filming the episodes or they actually this our expeditions really and then we're turning them into episodes this is this is now just uh our first episode has just come out on youtube uh last week have a youtube channel set up and we're going to be dropping out try to get about another new episode about every month uh now for the next several months and our first uh

1:50:03 trip that denise and i did was to uh ecuador and peru which was a which was her own her own backyard essentially and uh we went looking for a sharks uh known as a sharp fin hound shark and the species hasn't been seen since 1961 and um well denise what do you think so far on the project well the first uh the first time that um adriana that is a colleague from well dave colleague adri let me say she's been adriana adriana gonzalez pastana she's been on the on the podcast here so if you go back look at some early podcasts so anyway so yeah so she's been on here yes yes she's um so she um tell me about uh dave uh that he's uh on the way to peru and she needs and he needs a camera woman and i ask okay so he's a shark expert what what he's doing and what that he's gonna uh look for and she said he's uh well he's he's looking for atriakisa putipina this is a shark from ecuador um uh nobody see that shark for 60 years and he's gonna

1:51:34 came to look for it and i was like uh what why why she he is looking for something that like nobody's seen nobody's seen and yeah and also is he needs to to really like found it like because he's for me in that moment was of course he's not gonna found it uh but in the process we didn't find it well but uh the important thing is uh the the journey the awareness around uh the the importance of these species that nobody knows that exist the things that you discover in between your search in right or or the fun you found something but uh in between there are a lot of things that you learn and um so the because of the story that for me was amazing since the beginning like i think i really like the story that you really don't understand or is super impressive like you said like it's not gonna do it like the underwater painter right like yeah he's not gonna do it yeah such a unique situation it's so unique it's so unique

1:53:04 so it's like i'm all in so i want to tell this story this is i think one of my favorite stories so i really wait the time of the year of to going to to report or to be the camerawoman of of day because he's that his projects are amazing i learn a lot um he have also a lot of experience to share he's super cool to travel um so for all i i like the story in my calendar for the year like november for whale sharks in peru and july i asked for some place in the world that they've some place you want to go to search yes well based based on our experience with whale sharks we're about doing the same whether we're looking for sharpen hound sharks or whale sharks because um the first place it turned out we went to uh the next two stories that come out uh are equi referred to as equidor as lost shark the only place this shark is known from is off uh isla de plata off porta lopez in in equidor and of course that turned out to be uh the largest known aggregation of manorays oceanic manorays in the world at this spot and whale sharks there and so of course dennis and i and

1:54:35 adriana uh savallos and adriana pastana went out there and we didn't see any manorays no whale sharks and of course we didn't find any sharp fins we didn't see anything any sharks really but it was a it was a fun journey um despite not seeing everything um not seeing any sharks really and and uh because i was excited thought well at least we'll see a lot of manorays and maybe some whale sharks which would be really cool and of course the manorays we found out showed up about a week after we left and the whale sharks showed up about a week after we left and so that's typically how as dennis said on her other project if you go looking for something you're never going to find it it's just you have to be looking for something else yeah um yeah you have to start saying like that right like yeah why i'm gonna record something right well i i always tell i've done this for years because i've been doing this my whole career is i just tell people like i never want to say what i'm going to look for because i know i won't find it so i'll just say i'm going to go to the fish market and i'll see what i find there and that's when i'll that's when i'll find stuff if i say like i'm going to go look for this one shark or ray there's no way i'll find it but if i go i'm just gonna go to the fish market then i'll find some really cool stuff um but the the point of the series um and just so we know that denise has been filming it and andrew's been doing the editing and we've been putting andrew and so it's been a learning experience for like especially for andrew and i denise was came to

1:56:06 experience in the photography um but it's been for me it's been a bit as a passion project kind of telling the story about these sharks that nobody's known about in fact we were working with uh guy stephens and uh the mantatress and uh jazz coburt and uh michelle garell from the ecuador uh manta project and then ever and you know particularly michelle who's ecuadoran he'd never even heard of this shark before and that's what we found with most of the ecuadorans except for the older ones the older fishermen that we met they knew what this shark was but they don't think it was the same story and uh in that they would say like we haven't seen this shark in 35 or 40 years and and so but the younger guy the younger people like denise's age and they you know pretty much anybody under you know 50 60 years of age they had no idea what this they didn't even know the shark was there so right the big project that we've really that they were highlighting is that all of these sharks i don't say all of them but there are sharks and rays that are disappearing and nobody's paying any attention to they'll look for whale sharks to look for white sharks or tiger sharks and so we're trying to kind of spread the word here with denise's photography and the andrew and i ended in the editing and trying to tell this story to really raise awareness for this and save our season has been amazing as far as being able to support this project and we're going into our third year now

1:57:37 um we've had some pretty amazing experiences um wouldn't you agree denise totally yes as i said this one of the stories that i really like to to cover and report also is is amazing i learn a lot i think uh dave i think of course you you learn too because yeah i think that you already know everything but i'm sure like you already know trust me still learning but um also is is very tough too in some parts is um for me they have more experience with that but for me went to the fish but very big fish markets with all the sharks and see all these hundreds of sharks or the baby one baby tiger sharks that they are super cute or the um the last time that we were in indonesia in this island that the um i think was a minister of fisheries right that they bring you a lot of sharks and braids to to do a workshop and the identification for me was super impressive like i is something like with i get when i went to

1:59:08 to the hotel at the at the end of every day i was with the energy like this like very low like is uh i usually do the farm part like underwater and all the things like the sharks are alive and the colors and the corals and then go to see all these blood part with the um for me was the most impressive in in the in in ekwador we saw it a lot and but i think were more about the feeling of the mafia thing yes right like we were afraid of that or i was concerned about that in the in the nation we don't feel that but right the energy was i don't know i we saw so many species or so many beautiful things that some of the yeah some of the things and we'll be we'll touch on this in some of the episodes to come and things that people don't think about like when you go to look for sharks like we're in ecuador in northern peru we had we'd go to fish markets or we'd have mafia people to deal with or drug cartels and we literally had to flee a few paces because we were told to leave or we're going to be killed and so like um those are the things you don't think about um except when you're out there

2:00:38 like filming something and like another one day we're in we're in ecuador and i was filming some stuff and suddenly danice grabs my arm and just says we need to leave now and i didn't have to ask her why because i knew exactly why we had to leave and so uh and so you run into those those are things you don't think about um in some of these areas and it was it was pretty intense the the few weeks where in we're both in ecuador and in northern peru because everywhere we went to all the fish markets and everything you had that always had that undercurrent of like the mafia running the place or you had um i mean we were going to try to hold uh some uh some uh identification workshops and um and one of our colleagues in adriana and ecuador just said well we you can have one but nobody's going to show up because they're all going to afraid they're going to be killed and so we had to counsel having having a workshop because well i can understand nobody i don't want to get killed danice didn't want so so we didn't have that um you know we went to other places we are in um one of the other stories they'll tell we went to an amazing trip to timor lesty east timor uh danice and i did and um there there was really peaceful and everything except he had this issue with crocodiles everywhere and uh small small issue does it you walk oh you walk over to go take a picture and or the one day danice went over to take some filming of like some pretty little lagoon and and one of our our uh uh uh colleagues there who's team or he's good starts

2:02:10 going no run get away because there's somebody just been killed by a crocodile a few days earlier in the same little pretty little lagoon there uh so you have it was uh it was is the things you don't think about when you're ever he's worried about like well how do you feel working about sharks and the sharks are nothing that's it's all the other things you have to worry about besides the sharks um but the team or the team or story will probably be a good one we'll we'll we'll tell about that story some places that was a place it was that was a big exploration for danice and i and the others on the group julia and uh adriana um because nobody's ever looked at sharks there so that was it that was that was a that was another really good episode it'll be a good episode coming up in the future we did we spent uh quite a bit of time traveling through uh uh indonesia with uh nia simone uh and and just went to some places and found i mean danice is she's a film person she's seen sharks and rays that very few people have ever seen that study sharks and rays out there so we special spot special spot yeah she she was really fortunate to see some things that most people never some of the ones i'd never seen before in fact a number of the ones i'd never seen before so um it was a it's been a pretty amazing expedition uh the last couple years and we got we're not going to tell you now but we got some really exciting news we'll tell you later this year on our next journey that we're going to be doing um on this on this project here but um part of the project

2:03:40 besides telling the stories we're also uh doing workshops as danice mentioned i ran a workshop a couple workshops in indonesia with sidies inspectors to try to help train them on what to look for in terms of species and uh it's it's been a really it's been kind of kind of a multifaceted project the the the the documentary part is just one small part of the of the broader project and um hopefully this will lead to some inspire some more projects that uh we'll be able to share coming up and um and so um so hopefully danish you're all ready for the next adventure to come up on this yes of course super ready i actually have something that i would like to say it get me very excited when i'm traveling with dave is when he said the he said so so that i saw some sharks that a lot of people didn't see in my life and i'm very grateful for that because when he told me let's go to a basement of i think the basement or another room to this room um it's amazing because the the basement of the california academy of science yeah it's amazing like nobody goes to the basement so to have opportunity to get into a place that nobody goes and it's only for scientists researchers and to

2:05:11 see all these ictiology um collection that is one of the biggest in the world is amazing and he took these three a kiss of puttipini that is the shark that we were looking for in or they was looking for with a scientist in a paulo and peru and actually the scientists were looking for it they never saw it in real like me yeah yeah yeah we were looking for in peru and a paulo or like adriana and all that the experts and they saw it they are only two species specimens in the world yeah one's in the basement of the science academy and the other in this masonian and i saw one of them so yeah when you get that things it's like you you already learned a lot just in that moment and in that emotion right like to discover something or to see that this is special and in the other room was the in indonesia in this uh uh family oh phommie is an expert in yep the indonesian expert phommie yep yep one of the fish top fish is a shark expert yep that he has a room with coolers and the most amazing sharks in the world i think like these little things like black things of black sharks or the

2:06:44 cookie shark that i never saw it in cookie cutter life like cookie cutter that is amazing um and also i when i'm recording sometimes i don't you you are not very into the reality of what you are doing but sometimes the emotion you know that you are an emotional and special moment but everything go fast and you have to focus on the things and the what they are doing but sometimes they've smiled more than other times so when he saw it the river shark for example in the in that place in the lab i knew that was a special this is more special than the special moment yeah the special part of the special moment so i pay more attention and he's like uh this is so cool and he said this is so cool because of this and all the others scientists are very like excited to oh he bring a jar with things and tell him we don't know what is this can you help us so you know that this came for a deep sea fisheries is species that nobody knows what is it so probably there are a lot of new things for science in that you are so have the possibility to see two scientists open a

2:08:16 jar that nobody knows what is inside and taking out the the sharks and baby things uh well probably it's not babies but for me are the babies because we're small but it's amazing i think i think it's very cool to be part of that absolutely yeah absolutely yeah there's definitely this will be in one of the indonesian shows we basically had we pulled out a family had collected a whole bunch of these deep seed dog fish and cat sharks and we pulled them out and it was the first time we'd looked at them and and there was some really interesting stuff there i won't give away what we found but you have to watch the episode when it comes out later this year but we found some stuff and and denise is she says she's been very fortunate she's seen things that most people have never seen i i waited a long time for the river sharks most of my career to actually have a chance to go out and see them in the wild you know here's denise is just a kid she's already got to see him and tag him and for me it was a very um that episode was very that was a very emotional episode for me because as a grad student we thought the river sharks had gone extinct and so now we actually got to go out and handle some in the field we found some and yeah we found some in in phommy's lab um it was just it was a it yeah that's that's going to be a very good story to tell 40 years about that yeah 40 years later for me and say denise the kid here got a chance to see him and uh very few people

2:09:48 that's another one you know very few people outside australia there have really ever seen those things so it's another it's a real arty she's been kind of had a really good seat to uh to see a lot she's knows has seen a lot more than a lot of shark experts have so um um um so anyways that's been really it's been fun just traveling together and having some adventures and and everything so um so but um yeah i hope people you know definitely tune in catch this series is beyond youtube we'll post the links there to catch um yeah and denise it's been a it's been really good we're definitely gonna have you back on and talk about some more of our adventures and uh but um what advice for we leave uh what advice would you have for a young person starting out uh that wants to pursue say a journalism film career what advice would you have for them well i think for uh young people probably like just to follow their intuition if they think uh is something there that will uh bring you joy to your life so maybe you can follow that path and yeah and just well to send the mail right i think that's the other thing just send a mail or just ask because sometimes if you ask uh sometimes they tell you yes and so yeah that's uh an important

2:11:20 thing and now we have internet you don't have to move from your seat or your bed or whatever you want to send an email you can be in the comfortable place in your house and send a lot of emails and sometimes something will happen i think i always says like i how do you say when you do like a coin with a coin flip a coin a wish flip a coin a wish like and make a wish yeah so i think i'm i always like said like i'm gonna put coins here like i want these so yeah so just put a lot of coins and make a lot of wishes and be responsible of that to or get in charge to it to whatever you are dreaming of yeah yeah follow your intuition probably just awesome great well thank dennis thanks so much for coming on the show catch the series uh on youtube and uh and we'll definitely be coming back and having some more talk to the later later on okay thanks again dennis thank you very much bye thank you dennis for joining us on today's episode of the beyond jaws podcast was great to have you on dave what a wonderful story that she had like just going through and getting experience i just i love the story about the underwater

2:12:52 painter who knew that you could paint underwater i mean that is that's an incredible story just in itself you know something i talk about once a while when i get when i give public talks about how sometimes you you meet somebody on your journey you never expect to meet and dennis was probably one of the best stories we've heard and that thing she basically made a painter on the beach who inspired her and that's where her career in terms of diving filming underwater becoming really one becoming one of peru's first underwater camerawoman really yeah so real pioneer in that way and it was really from a painter she met on the beach who who wanted who talked about underwater and that was just that's that was an amazing story she told i in fact i didn't even know of the time i spent with her knowing a little bit about background i didn't know that that's what was really her inspiration and she was you know much you know she was in her mid-20s when that happened there you know and as i mentioned earlier she's this was a process for her she didn't just decide as a kid that i'm going to go do this she she went through this whole process i thought it was interesting she talked about it her first three years as a journalist after college she was a crime journalist reporting on crime stories yeah yeah that could that could uh that could weigh a lot on you after a while just all you're doing is talking about crime reporting especially when you're a young person just starting out you know you're thinking yeah yeah and then she just went in this whole area getting into conservation that

2:14:22 her first trip to antarctica i think really inspired her she didn't really know what she was doing she just went on this went to antarctica and it turned into an amazing thing and then she then she kind of continued on her journalism she started what we're watching what the photographers were doing yeah i guess initially at the crime scenes they were taking pictures of the crime scene she was reporting on and then she saw him doing wildlife conservation stuff and then um one thing slowly led to another and then she ended up going back and doing a refresher course and diving and just found her passion as i thought it was just a really really touching story that she told oh i agree i agree no it was phenomenal and it still continues to be phenomenal with you working with her i think it's uh you know just finding her through adriana and then you went on to another project you know across the world with her and and obviously she's really easy going really easy to work with uh and and same with you and so it's like it's when you have when you find somebody like that where you can work really well together in sometimes extreme environments you know where you're in dangerous environments and stuff you can trust each other you can like make sure each you look out for each other uh and i think that's really important and it shows in her work as somebody who's seen her work uh you know a lot because i'm working with it doing the editing um she's really great she loves the story you know that's what that's what it's now she's not just a videographer she's a journalist and she loves telling the stories and she loves guiding us with the story and i think it's it's phenomenal and she's done a

2:15:52 great job yeah continue to do a wonderful job so i think oh yeah yeah oh yeah no she's really good and i think uh you know it kind of helps me out because she's really good about doing social media along the way which helped out a lot um yeah she was good yeah um and then sometimes one point sometime later on we'll have we'll have on her and maybe a couple of people to talk about we touched on a little bit about some of the things you encounter we talked about particularly in Ecuador and Peru dealing with the mafia setting these places here and it's just things you don't think about when you're a young person starting out like i'm going to go start starting i mean it's we we laugh a little about but careful at the time and again we were in touch with you andus you kind of knew at the time you guys were concerned yeah we were kind of concerned concern yeah there's definitely concern so uh uh so but that's the stuff people don't often think about but it's but uh denise spinner trooper and the whole thing and uh uh and yeah so we'll have her back on talk about some of the other future episodes we have on the thing and kind of give her experience from filming from behind the camera because you're not you're not really going to see her too much in front of the camera because she's doing all the filming so right exactly anyway yeah so anyway but it's now it's a good yeah it was a good episode crazy well yeah great episode and uh looking forward to seeing more from her and hearing more from her and and obviously seeing her her videos and and diving into the the australian data and then east team more data and indonesia and all sorts of places you

2:17:23 guys went to so i'm looking forward to that now uh we're gonna be we're by the time this is published the the first episode of the lost sharks will be out so uh check that out you know go to youtube i'll put in the link so you can you guys can check it out let us know what you how you feel put the comments in uh on the youtube channel we'd love to hear how you feel and tell other people what you love about it and so forth so uh check that out uh and uh we're i'm gonna put the links to denise's website as well as instagram page so that you can check out her work in case you ever need a videographer and dave if people want to get a hold of you how they do so uh you the instagram is probably the best way just follow me there i i'm also on facebook and x and on linkedin but probably instagram would be the best place to follow me on perfect and then for us it's beyond jaws pod and go to our youtube channel subscribe uh and uh i'll put the link so this the just to let you guys know that the lost sharks video is going out on dave's youtube channel not the beyond jaws pod so we'll link to that specifically so don't just go thinking that you're going to see it at the beyond jaws podcast page so yeah uh go to the lost sharks guys page so that i'll put that in in the show notes as well but thanks dave very much and thank you denise we really appreciate you coming on looking forward to having you back on and for all of you out there thank you for listening we love having you on this podcast and having you listen and your comments are always always welcome and feedback is always welcome so thank you very much for that and this has been another episode of the beyond jaws

2:18:53 podcast thank you so much for joining us from dave and i we really appreciate you have a great day we'll talk to you next time and happy conservation