She Left Europe to Build a Shark Conservation NGO in Angola, Here’s What It Really Takes

1:00:00 On this episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast, we are talking to Anna Lucia Furtado-Sores, who's here to update us on her life, you know, with the Angola Project, which she came up with during her graduate studies. She is actually, you know, she normally lives in Portugal and she spends some time in Angola, and now she's talking about moving to Angola to follow this as a full-time passion, a full-time job. So it's no longer just a passion, no longer just graduate work. It is full-time for her. She's giving it a shot. We're going to talk about everything that goes into that, including big life changes. We're going to talk about that on this episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast.

1:00:40 Let's start the show. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. I'm your co-host, Andrew Lewin, here with my co-host, Dr. David Ebert. Dave, were you ready to talk about Angola and some big life changes for Anna Lucia Furtado-Sores? Yep. Yep. She was on the show about two years ago, I think it was. And then she was a great guest. I've known her for quite a while. And, you know, she has some updates to bring us up to date. She's just launching her NGO, Elizmo Angola, and she's got a new website up there, which we'll post here so people can go there and check it out.

1:01:20 And she's just taken the step, you know, basically just starting her own organization rather than waiting around for life to happen and stuff. And life is happening for her, which we'll get into today as well in the episode. But yeah, she's definitely one of these early career, just real, in my opinion, real rising stars in the field. And she works in a difficult environment in Angola there, but she's really committed to what she's doing. She's very passionate and very driven. And we like to see that. And we just, you know, she's a good, she's a good role model for other young people just starting out, you know, she's not that old too, you know, but she knows exactly. She just knows what she wants to do.

1:02:00 And if you're other young people out there looking, you know, you can stand around and wait for life to happen or you can do like Lucia has done and just kind of take life by the horns and just go for it. So anyway, she's a good role model. So really looking forward to this for the for the interview today. Great. So let's start the interview and enjoy and we'll talk to you after. Hey, Lucia. Welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Are you ready to talk about the shark project? Absolutely. Thank you so much for inviting me again. You bet. Yeah. Well, welcome to the Beyond Jaws podcast where we have a fabulous returning guest to update us on what she's been up to. And Alicia Fertado Sores from both from Portugal and Angola is the principal research scientist with the Angola Lazmo project.

1:02:43 And she's just launched a fabulous new website here. Angola Lazmo Brank project, which we're going to talk about today, among other things, just as a brief reminder of she was on the episode 70 back in May of 2024. Please go check it out to get her full life story up to that point in her life at the time. She has a B.S.C. in marine science and oceanography from the University of Algarve. She also has an M.S.C. in marine biodiversity and conservation from the University of Paris for the Pierre Marie Curie from the Sobon universities and the University of Jett, which is a real mouthful for me to pronounce since all is in French. And she's currently doing her PhD at the Ludwig Maximilian University in Munich.

1:03:26 And they said she's the founder. She's going to update us. She had a ridiculously busy schedule. And I thought, well, let's have her back on to kind of update us on everything she's been up to. So, Lucia, welcome back to the show. Hi, thank you so much for inviting me again. It's really a pleasure to speak to you once again. And yeah, I'm thrilled to share what I've been doing since the last time. Great. Well, what? Well, what have you been doing doing since what's what are some of the highlights you've been up to? They started to cut you off before before we do. I think I think, Lucia, you're going to have to introduce your friend. If anybody watching this on I know you get we have the cutest little friend that has decided to come and join us.

1:04:12 I think he's looking for she's looking for a little bit of attention from. I know. Absolutely adorable. So her name is Aurora, like our own aborialis. Yeah. Yeah. She's eight months old and she's a rat on it up for the gala. So, yeah, I really like her. And I just got home. This is why she's like this. So I'm very sorry. Yeah. She's bothering a little bit. At least she's not farting. Could be worse. Could be really worse. Yeah. She's just fun to see on my life. She's adorable. We're pet friendly here. So welcome to dogs. That's your favorite pets are welcome here. So. Sharks. Sharks.

1:04:52 Well, yes, of course. Sharks. A little interesting. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So we. Yeah. Going back to so last year we we've not we've not picked for like a year, I think. So I will start with the first year. I will start with something that was really, really important for the project, which was the visit of my supervisor. And I think a lot of people who know who she is. Dr. A true star in the field. Right. So for me, you could imagine that I had to receive Dr. V. I was nervous.

1:05:34 Yeah. Of course. So I know I know I was doing the project for all these years, but she's someone that believed in me since the beginning. And from which I learned a lot. And she's never been in the field. But me and Angola. So for me was obviously in terms of I really respect her work. So I did. I was nervous because I wanted this to be excellent and excellent experience for her, which in her words, it was. She spent about a week with me there and we did a little bit of everything. We visit all the sites. We spoke with the people that were involved in the project. And bear in mind that it's so this the project is now based in the Namib region, which is in the south of Angola.

1:06:28 And just the province of Namib is huge. It's like the size of almost Portugal. So I will say that. Yeah. So I will say that, yeah, we were driving spending a lot of time in the car together. So she had time to speak with the volunteers, even the driver that is like kind of part of the family now. Our Angola project family. So, yeah, she wants to go back and she was really happy with what she saw in terms of time, resources and also my efforts there. So for me, it was really a mark that I can say I do respect a lot of people's opinions. But I needed that one. I needed her to see and tell me, yeah, you're doing well. And this is the way to go. So it really motivated me to do more.

1:07:18 And yeah, and this is how we end up like with the website and other ideas, no other objectives that I have now for this year. So, yeah, it was really important for her to come and practice. Well, she was also doing field work with me, which also helped me because, you know, someone that has like lots of years of experience. Sometimes you look because I'm doing measurements and so taxonomy, etc. But she's so quick and you feel like the pressure to do it, but you do it, you know, like sometimes you need someone close to you that pushes you to do better and more and faster. And I really challenged me and it was really amazing. So she pushed me to even do more than I was doing. And yeah, and it changed also the project in terms of the rhythm that we have, even the volunteers because so some of the volunteers didn't speak English.

1:08:13 Well, they at the end of the week, they were speaking somehow English with her. She was putting me into working with one of them. So she was measuring and like, and saying the number like, for example, the land of the shark or the sex, but they were getting everything. They had to there was no chance they knew that she was there and who she was. And this was such a learning opportunity that somehow English game, like to their heads, like straight away, like it was amazing. Yeah. So for all of us, it was very motivating for them to also see that so I'm supervising them and she's not a supervisor. So I bought my boss, you know, and it was nice for them to also see that there's there's more than me above them and teaching them and in his learning experience and everything.

1:09:03 Yeah, it was really nice. I also had the so it was it was a year of the visits. So I had this save our seats. Oh, yeah. Telling grantee and and is I is assistant. So both of them, they came to Angola and they spent one week with me and then they went diving to the center of the central zone, which is this. We have the city of Bengala, which is I will say is warm waters and the better conditions to dive. So in the meat, there is no diving right now, which is something that I would like in the future.

1:09:44 This will be what I'm going to say later about the hub that I'm trying to create. So there's no one doing diving there, although there are conditions, but it's really hard because there's no any material or anyone to support this type of, you know, activity here. Is there much diving in Angola anywhere? Is there much scuba diving or anything? There's only one scuba diving school school. So yeah, which is in Bengala. We we don't know each other personally, but we collaborated and we this is one of the part of one of the things that I want to do in the future is with their help to establish the project also in Bengala, which is the central zone.

1:10:30 So saying that I want would like to expand at least have people in the Norton Center and South Indian zone because you have the different currents and it's important to see the differences and the country's huge. I cannot be everywhere. So it will be nice to replicate the project and have someone there and they're really open about it because they also do some cleanups and they really want to protect the environment and they felt very alone for many years. It is environmental, I would say subjects in Angola is not very popular, I will say. People don't have like the interest doesn't go really to with to do with the sea besides going on a boat.

1:11:16 So diving or even swimming or taking care of our beaches. That's not a thing there. And they were really fighting from the beginning. This is how I got to know them. And we are trying to do a partnership in the future and hopefully bring also diving to the meat, which will be very important to see what is underwater. Not only what I've been doing in the service in the landing service with a fisherman with a fisherman. Sorry. I want to remind people to like because you have a very per Angola is very personal to you because you have your family connections from there from your parents. Your or your parents fled during the Civil War there back in the in the eighties. But just so people know it's a very it's very personal to you.

1:12:02 The work you're doing in Angola because of your family connections and stuff. And do you feel a sense of that when you go back now kind of a bit of a connection? I feel home now. I got an interesting encounter. So to do to do service there, you need to always ask the permission of the chief of the fishers, which is called the Soba. So every community will have a Soba. You need to find them. And I somehow this is a very interesting story because I was with the storytelling grantees. So we were in a beach and we were trying to see if they could find some.

1:12:47 It was see they were doing some purses with seals scheme. And I saw this like many years ago when they wanted to photograph. So we went to talk with the fishers and somehow one of them said, do you want to know the Soba? And we were like, oh, yeah, let's go. And while the photos that they have, I'm dying to see this published. It's insane. It's amazing. It's like like a photo of a lifetime. The Soba comes and he was dressed like a as a civil, like not nicely. And then he said, oh, is the photograph OK, wait a minute. And he was like in a military suit, like with the hat and everything. And I don't know the name, the stick with like animal fire and everything, like kind of a wizard thing. We were like, OK, we cried. It was something intense. And he said, you said, you welcome to your home land.

1:13:39 You're welcome here. And your work is what you're doing is good for us. And we respect you and you're always welcome here. I cried. So this was really being acknowledged by the king, I will say, on the fishers. So this is something that now I can walk and do my work really freely. Right. Because you have the ball. Yeah. The blessing of them. And he blessed also the storyteller saying that their work was important and to share with you. Yeah. It was amazing. For sure. Soon you will get to see this through Saver Seas. Yeah. It hasn't come out yet. Right. The Saver Seas.

1:14:19 No, no, no. Should be soon. Who's a storyteller that that was went out there with you? Who is so is Argentinian and his name is Nicholas Han and his assistant was name is Miguel. I don't I'm sorry. I do not remember the surname if you listen into this. And it's from Mexico and they were like they want to come back as well. They had an amazing experience. They were not expecting Angola to be like that. People to be like that. So open and so willing to share their knowledge and their lives and experiences. They went everywhere. They were really shocked that we were getting into people's houses where they were drying sharks and rays and processing etc.

1:15:06 And they were letting them in photograph film etc. You need to do it again. Do it again. And so it was about take another take. It was really really really good. And they said they would like to return and to explore a little bit more. Yeah. Wow. That sounds like an amazing experience. They were with the storyteller storyteller grants. So that was a lot. Sound like a full schedule right there. That's that. But that's not all you've been doing. Right. Not at all. Not at all. Well, besides being fit and trying to finish my PhD. So it's for at least for the PhD. I close my data collection. So all the service the landing site service are finished.

1:15:48 I have my genetic samples being analyzed in partnership with the sorry. Nova Southeastern University in Florida. I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing this. Yeah. Incorrect. That's right. That's right. That's right. With Dr. Mohamad Sivi. So yeah. Yeah. Partering with me. So I don't know exactly when this will be out. If this will be a part of my PhD or not. Hopefully yes. If not very soon as well. We will publish this paper which will be interesting to see also in terms of genetics what is going on there. But soon you will have.

1:16:29 Can you give us a bit of a can you just give us a bit of a description on your on your thesis on your PhD thesis just to give the audience a little bit of a reminder if they don't remember. So what I'm trying to do here is to to to see the impact of fisheries small scale fisheries on a large marine sharks in race. Why did I chose small scale fisheries because it was the only fisheries that I had access to. Doesn't mean that they are the most impactful impactful. So this is where I started. I did from local ecological ecological knowledge because there was no baseline in terms of so I'm not seeing a lot of sharks and rays but was it there actually something there.

1:17:16 So how do we do we go interview fishers. We talked to them with right to do create a timeline and this was already done. And now what I'm doing is for me it's I didn't add a lot of funds to do it. So basically we go to a landing site. We have to first do a triage and see which one we're gonna which one is worth it because they're long distances. So I'm not gonna drive a long way to go to a place that there's not a lot of sharks and rays being fish. Although there is it's it's also a point to be written in the PhD. But what I'm doing the sampling is really where there's massive. There's really a huge amount of sharks and rays being fish and I'm collecting biological data.

1:18:00 So collecting doing taxonomy cutting a little bit of a tissue sample to do the genetics and genetics analysis identifying the sex and if it's a male tried to see his maturity. And now I'm playing with my data and trying to identify which are the key species there. And also I tried to always have the type of gear that this has been fished which sometimes is tricky because the boat that arrives might not be the boat that this was actually fished at. And but we can see because of the species. So there's sometimes there's a mix of pelagic with a little bit of the muscle that doesn't make sense. So you know that probably there was a boat that dumped this there. They sold each other. They don't care. They just say like, oh, this was a gill net. Well, but we I'm trying to this is why he's taking a little bit of more time because I'm trying to analyze this to clear my data in a way that I'm not just taking their word because they're not just taking their word.

1:19:05 Because they actually don't actually know where this came from. It's very complex. Some of them has been fished also by industrial vessels. And they this is something for the future to understand which ones. So the trade route. What is the what makes them valuable? Which is it a species? Is the sizes of the thing? What is going on there? This is very important. And why are they discarding some sharks that in other places that are actually valuable? Yeah, this is my question. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And how many how many how many papers are you publishing from your thesis to? So I have all the papers that to do not with this data, but about concert. How can I say informing policy in the review of what has been done in terms of legislation.

1:20:02 So but in suggesting what we can do in the future based on the data that I'm creating. So in total I have four. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Nice. Nice. And you're so. Thank you. And what. And so with all this work you're doing now is your your field party or thesis pretty much done. You're going to continue working in the field there. But is your the data for your thesis is pretty much collected. Now it's just analyzing and writing it up. Is that what your plans are? Yes. And the next step will be so it's natural that the project continues because the project is not only research. It's also about conservation in the sense of a true impact in the in the in the field, which is education. So education awareness campaign. So I need to be there.

1:20:55 And this is why it was natural for me to think about moving there and creating them and go the last project up. Yeah. So we will continue to collect the data. We will continue to do everything that we are doing till now. But it will be bigger. So we will try to get more site because we will be I will be able being there 24 seven. It's really changes things. We have to see that I was there a month and a half or something like that sometimes two months maximum each each time, which is when you get the momentum and then it's taken away because all the contacts all the meetings and then you go back to Portugal or elsewhere.

1:21:40 And then while it's not very famous for emails or zoom calls or no, you need to be face to face to people for people for things to material materialize. And this is why it was for me a natural choice to to move there and to really push for for the project to move forward. Also, because the government of Angola is in conversations with me with the project and is we have an openness in terms of collaboration. But again, I need to be there. It can't be done from far away. And yeah, so right now, it's just really figuring out how to do things there are to build it for funding as well.

1:22:26 I'm fighting for funding. Yeah, yeah. I apply for a lot of stuff now. Well, with all of that, how hard is it to juggle the PhD and and the handcoat like the shark project that ain't go like how how different like how much of a challenge is that because like I feel like both of those are full time jobs plus a half in it in and of itself. How do you how do you juggle between the two? I know there's some overlap, obviously, but how do you juggle between the two? Um, I have to this was my dream. Right? Well, I have to I enjoy doing it. You know, if I didn't if I was forced to I probably will not be doing it because it really takes a lot of my time, my energy.

1:23:12 Right. From, you know, from applying for funding to having to bombard people from the government from universities, from schools and try to make things happen and going after people. It's just insane and plan and doing budgets and planning schedules and and talking with the volunteers, right? Because I'm from far away, I try to make the our schedule work. So in terms of we have X presentations per month, we try to do as much as we can. But I also understand that they also are volunteering. So I can't ask much there because it's I would say that doing volunteering in Angola is not the same as we volunteer, for example, in Europe.

1:23:55 These these people have not always easy lives. And this means that they're really, really are putting their efforts in the in the in the project. And we do as as much as we can, which is a lot till now. We do schools presentations, universities, other stakeholders, we need corporate, corporate even. And then for me, the what sometimes can be challenging is really to do the follow up with everything and everyone because I'm only one. And we're talking about, for example, we can talk after you already mentioned about the website.

1:24:39 So it's creating a website, then I don't know, email someone from the government, then have to write the TZs and it's it's it's a lot. It's a lot. But it's really worth it. And this was exactly what I wanted. So for me, it's a yeah, so I was there. Yeah, so the website is going to basically your greeting to the world, like people go and go there and find out about your projects, they can donate to you, helping your help in your program and stuff. And how is did you work? Did you design and do that work yourself? Or do you have someone help you with that? Or? I had someone help me with that. That was, that was my fiance that helped me with that, to be fair.

1:25:19 Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what? Yeah, that brings up another thing. Like now, I guess we could talk about, you know, you recently got engaged. Yeah. And so, so now this is gonna be a whole other level of, I don't wanna say challenges, but we'll say, so is he gonna, so is he prepared to move to Angola? Yeah, he was there the last time with me. And he was photographing and helping even with the measurements. So I teach them and he was it was fine with it. Used to be, it wasn't a military before. So he used to this kind of, I would say different and challenging situation. So for him is not, he likes that. He likes to be there. And he's really excited to go there for a while. So it was, yeah.

1:26:11 So this is also one of the reasons that we are getting married is that we are there together as well. And because we really, I will say that Namib is really, really far from a lot of things. We're really far away. Yeah. Oh, does he speak Portuguese? Does he speak? Yeah, he does. So yeah, perfect. Yeah, we both speak Portuguese and they speak Portuguese there. So we will be fine. Okay. Yeah, is there one already searching for things for the hub helping me to see like, yeah, rents for houses and etc. So he's really been helping me. So this is also something that has changed a bit in the project because it's someone that is really giving a lot of this time also to help me.

1:27:00 Help me to put the strategy of the project, not the scientific part of education, but the strategy of it or what is the priority, what we need here to build a hub or to, you know, Yeah, well, I say if he's if he's I assume he's not from Angola or he's from Europe somewhere. So he's Portuguese. He's Portuguese. Yeah, he's Portuguese. Okay. So that's good. But I mean, even even he's Portuguese. But to move to Africa, especially because I know you're not going to be living. I know enough about like some of these countries, like it's not going to be like where you live in now living in Portugal now or someplace. It'd be a little challenging getting things set up and especially because you're starting a whole new organization really, even though you've kind of been doing it.

1:27:48 That's a lot. Yeah. Oh, I know what he's doing. Well, that yeah, he sure loves me. I say must must be loved. I guess so you guys getting married in in Portugal or in in Angola? No, no, no in Portugal, but we don't have a well a specific date yet. We want to I want to start my PhD everything for me. It's just I never wanted to get married to be fair. It was never my idea. I was always more. I don't know. Work oriented. And when something that naturally for me, it was also not I wanted I want now but it's not about the party or anything. I just want to be with a person. I didn't make sense to go there with him. And I think it's it really pushed it really gives me the certainty that things will be good there. Like I'm going to be doing something that I love having someone that I that is supporting me and helping me. And while this is if you if your mind is well, you're going to have success in what you're doing in terms of what you're feeling fine. If you're feeling lonely or if you're feeling not, you know, like I could be doing the work there because but moving there is we're not talking about, for example, one day, which is a big city. There's nothing there.

1:29:06 You know, it's the desert and a small town few people and that's it and fisheries. And so leaving there and doing this kind of work, it's fun to a certain limit. But because I also understand that I had my whole life, I never leave there. So of course, at some stage, it will be a bit challenging. But I know that being there with him, we will manage to go to this challenge together for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess it's got to be loved for that. I mean, you know, well, it's one thing for you because you're doing that all the time. You find somebody to find somebody that's willing to do that. That's that's that's what's got to be got to be got to be loved.

1:29:48 So you haven't set a wedding day yet that you've got a few things you want to finish up. Yeah. Yeah. OK. And well, I have to ask you, well, Andrew and I expect an invitation. Well, I hope so. Well, maybe you do a pod a live podcast from the reception. We can have your relatives come on and tell us about your siblings and every other your mom. How does your family feel about you all moving to Angola? My mom is so my dad is not alive, but my mom says she's really the involved. And she's like, you never leave there. You know, it's not like the like when you go like doing your work or a holiday. It's real. And I'm like, yeah, but I know you never been to the meet.

1:30:35 You lived a whole life in the one that it's different. You're a city girl there in Angola. So I know I know that it's I'm ready for it, but they were a bit. But once I said we were going to go together, my mom was like, OK, then you can go. Yeah, it's like you're going with him. Then you could go. She's scared, of course. She's scared. Yeah, it's normal. But I've been there so many times. I'm not saying to go to anywhere to go to anywhere like to live somewhere else. You know, you want your daughter to be safe. I have two young daughters or like they're older now, I guess teenagers. But yeah, you always want them to be safe wherever they go. Having somebody with them, whoever that might be is always is always great. It's a little bit more reassuring to make sure in any place. Right?

1:31:16 Because it's new. There's a lot more challenges than just safety to go ahead and just getting used to a new culture, a new place. Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely good to have a partner to go to go with. Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah, you still have relatives there, don't you? So family? I do. I do. And Wanda. I do. I have some cousins there and one or two aunties and uncles. Yeah. But has your yeah, has your mom been back? Has your mom been back at all? She she did but but once since she left so for her was very, very challenging, leaving the whole life. So she left with my two sisters and my dad and they even moved them to Brazil. They went to the Netherlands and then everyone was sitting here.

1:32:08 So I'm in Portugal right now. So they were coming to Portugal. So they decide because the family was leaving Angola because of the civil war. And everyone was gathering here. So it was natural that okay, to make our family happen here. But it was very tough. They lost everything. She managed to continue to work. So she was a researcher as well. We're in the medical field. Yeah. Yeah, but she managed to get back in her feet and to do her work again. She was in the university doing research. But in the beginning, she was working in a book. Yeah, yeah. So no papers. Nothing was crazy. I know nothing just with a suitcase in your hand and two kids. It was insane. But I always had this thing about Angola, all the stories and the people. And I see the photos of her.

1:33:00 So in terms of one thing that really pushed me to do something there was the in terms of biodiversity there, even talking about in the land side of you had lions, you have elephants, you had everything there. And during the civil war, there was a lot of people hunting. And they wiped out the whole ecosystem there. Marine one also, because we had all these like foreign vessels doing like big fishing, like the trolling, etc. Like not even talking only about sharks and rays, talking about everything, like doing, like even taking away like coral and everything.

1:33:45 One of the my mom says one of her memories is that the beach that they used to go, she was laying down like under water, like in the sand. And she will seek little hammerheads. And she's like, Oh, those ones were fine. They will not bite you. I was like, you guys are not afraid. It's like, no, no, no, we knew the small ones were fine. But the big ones, we had to leave the water. You never know. But she said she was like, she was like, Oh, but they only like to to eat the military because there was the mercenaries. She's like, I didn't eat mercenaries because there's always someone. Yeah, it was like, they don't eat the locals.

1:34:25 It's like the mercenaries they deserve. And I was like, Oh, mom, you can't say that. And she's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, what, what I've just curious because of my own connections from in Southern Africa, what year did your mom leave? Did they leave South? They stayed there long. She, I think it was 87. Yeah. 87. Because the war started in 75. So it was almost 11 years. So yeah, 11 years. Yeah. And you had to, you still had before the Civil War, you were the, but this was not in the area that they were living, which was the capital, because it was a Portuguese.

1:35:05 So Angola used to be a Portuguese colony. And before the revolution here in Portugal, this is why the troops left. There was already fights with the guerrillas from Angola. So they wanted the independence and they were fighting against the Portuguese. And it was always worse since I was, since the beginning of the sixties. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and I think all over Africa, it's, it's really sad. It's an amazing continent. Yeah. Yeah. And the Civil War didn't finish until 2002, like on and off. Is that, is that correct? Correct. So they're not long out of a civil war. That's a long, long war. Wow.

1:35:47 I, I, I told the story when I first time and I've, you and I have talked separately about this when I, I went into Namibia the first time in 87, we went all the way up to skeleton coast up through, up towards the Caprivi and all that area. And it was land mines and you got elephants, you got lions, you got all, and then they tell you like, oh yeah, it's land mine season. You're like, what the hell, land mines. And, uh, you know, trying to get up, I was trying to kind of like, you know, surveying all the way up. I could, so I'm kind of fascinated with your stuff now. Cause you're, you're in that Southern Angola area that I know was never able to get into because of the civil war to see what occurs. How many of those things go all the way up into Angola. So I got, in fact, I just saw you had it.

1:36:28 You posted a seven gills shark, I think recently on your, on your thing, which I was really happy to see. Well, I wasn't happy to see it was dead, but I was kind of happy to see that they get up. Well, we will be waiting for your visit then. We set up the hub. One of the objectives of it, like the goals will be to actually generate some that we are self sufficient because I'm always counting on funding from NGOs or the foundations, etc. But since this is not a PhD anymore, and this is going to be my work, I need to also think in other ways of promoted and to sustain myself and the volunteers, which will not be volunteers.

1:37:15 At least the smaller group, which is in the website, all the team is there. Well, they deserve to be paid as well. And I do want to give them, give them also a job. So for me and for them. And we will like to develop some sort of effort. We will like to develop some sort of echo tourism. So Angola is opening borders to more than 50 countries, no visa. So they're trying to promote now this. So that's the tourism scene there. There's no, there's no infrastructure at all, which is different unless you are in the wonder. But I mean, no one goes to just to see the one that you want to see the wild. It's a beautiful country. But I don't know. Probably they're trying to try to invest a lot of money, but there's no construction still. But having the hub in Angola, if we can have like the goal is to have a house that we can have from education.

1:38:06 We can we don't need to go to you to do our awareness campaign. You can come to us. You can visit to do imagine on a Friday night, a movie environmental movie night for the community. And this stuff that never happened there. And we want to really promote this as a center for all of the volunteers and people that want to reach and to help not only about how can I say the Angola LASMO product. But there's a lot of things to do there. And I will discover and I will to partner with to really help also the population there in terms not only in terms of fishery or sharks and rays, because it also has to do with all of this fishing.

1:38:48 Excessive fishing and it's to do with also the conditions that people leave there. So if we start to change the mentality in terms of with our awareness campaigns and also improving their livelihoods, I think we can also have a shift. It's natural to have a shift in this sharks and rays fish. So I will try to invent many angles that I will only be able to figure out once I'm there, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, definitely. It's a fascinating area because you have a big final change there in that southern area there. And that's why I was always curious, like how further up the Namibia and Fauna went. And then it changes. Then you get more of a warm tempered subtropical type of Fauna there.

1:39:32 And you're so you're kind of working in that whole area, correct? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So it's very cool. The water is very cold there. It's really, really cold. Even in the summer, it is cold. But then once you go to the Benguela province, it starts getting warmer and you have really crystalline waters. It's really changes everything. Yeah. I've never I've never been there. This is something that I want to do when I'm there. But I will love to see. Yeah. So, okay. So that's further north of where you're at there where it goes from the Benguela to the camera, the name of the current above that. Because you're more in the Benguela current.

1:40:12 Correct. I mean, the Benguela current is at the end of it. So I'm really close to the Namibia border. And then you have the current of Angola. So it will really go through. And then you have the Gulf of the Guinea. And then you have the Angolan current, which mixes with the the the Benguela and then it shifts during the summer or during the winter goes up or down. So you have a shift also species. This is this is for the future. I will have plenty of time now to travel to these places and try to collect data. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Fascinating area. Really fascinating area. Anything else you'd like to highlight on your on your website there? You want people to go check it out? And we'll we'll post these.

1:40:55 We'll post the your your your website on on the link on there. And besides, obviously go to the donation page and help help Lucia's site there. If you can spare a few dollars and. Yeah, I would like to if people could go and check the whole team. I think they deserve to be seen as well. And they're very proud. Absolutely. Yeah. So if you go and check the website go on about us and and check the young shark and ray research generation from Angola. Yeah.

1:41:35 Cool. Yeah. All right. Well, well, this has been this been terrific with you catching up with you and getting getting to find out where you've been at and everything and good congratulations on your engagement and. Thank you very much. And you and I will look forward to an invitation at some point here when you're all done. And for sure. And definitely, you know, good luck with your project there and we'll we'll definitely have you back on to kind of catch up on how it's going once you're down your your PhD and everything. And one final thing, you're going to be a sharks international coming up. I will be presenting. Awesome. Yes, congrats. Thank you. Thank you. I look forward to seeing you there then I guess we'll catch up some more. Yeah, for sure. But but but thank thank you very much for coming on here and good and best of luck for you and all your all your all your projects and everything. So yeah, it'd be we really appreciate you. You coming on and and the work that you're doing in Angola and the work that you do to help the communities there understand their like help better understand the fisheries and the work you're doing and because I think that's what we're doing.

1:42:39 And good luck on on the wedding and good luck on the move. We look forward to hearing from you shortly. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast was great to have you on great to get the big life update of moving to Angola to follow Angola and last more like permanently. This is something that's been on her mind for a long time as we saw, she's getting married and she's getting married and she's getting married and she's getting married and she's getting married and she's getting married. And I'm glad that you're here. Back in an hour, I think to put on a long time as we saw Dave, she's getting married and they're going to move her her and her partner are going to move down to Africa to Angola and I think is a bit of an interesting story because her parents as she mentioned, They had to flee to Portugal now going back kind of like a bit of a circle Moment for a full circle moment for her and her family which I think is I think is really important her mom a little nervous That she's going of course being so far away But it's it's definitely an interesting life update now Dave you Move from California all the way to South Africa to do your graduate studies Obviously a big culture move back even back in the 70s and 80s when you did it That's a that's a huge thing for her. Although she's used to being in Angola because she's lives there, you know part time She has a move is that that's huge I mean she and I think she has a she has a pass an Angolan passport because of her parents She's able to get an angry passport and It's huge. I mean it's a lot. It's a lot calmer now, you know as we talked touched a little bit on and we've talked before

1:44:09 then you know, they were in a you know, they were in a quite a Bad Civil War back in the 80s late 80s when I was there and sound like her her parents left about the time with her Two older sisters about the time I rolled into South Africa and spent time up in Namibia But yeah to up and be heading back down there to take up roots there You know given her parents had left it's gonna be quite a thing I have to say we might have to have her her future husband on the show guy I got to find out why this because it's one thing if you're used to that lifestyle But if you're saying like hi, honey, we're gonna get married. They're gonna move down Gola That's a pretty big deal. That's a huge that's lover something boy Yes, I I did it I don't know how that would have if I would have been married I don't think that would have lasted at all because it's a huge huge change.

1:44:59 It's oh, yeah, especially where they're moving down the south It's not like you're gonna be in Luanda one of the major cities there where she's moving. It's gonna be I mean they have you know, they have stuff there, you know Internet and some of the basics, but it's gonna be a definitely different definitely a bit of a change and I'm excited. I'm kind of happy for her. She really she's found what she's done. She's connected into the community She knows the local politicians down there And the the different agencies and they seem to really like her from what she said. So yeah Of course, I got now I'm gonna have to like go have to visit here sometime and check it out myself Maybe maybe you should come with me Andrew. Hey, I've never been to Africa. I think that would be a lot of fun I think oh baby Right. We've got the whole baby.

1:45:43 We've got something to show you Yeah, I think it'd be I think it'd be a fun experience There's you know There's a lot of people that we we've had on guests who have gone and done research or visited You know as a vacation down to Africa a few of our upcoming guests And I think it's kind of a cool thing to to even think about, you know here in North America You know going to Africa is such a big deal, you know when you go on safari or you go on a trip like on vacation You know, you never think about moving there. You never think you know, you just hear so many things You just don't know what to think about even South Africa is such a big a big, you know It's a big travel day. Obviously. Yeah 24 hours to get there. So it's far away But it's something you just never think about, you know for me anyway being in Canada or being in North America So it's kind of a cool thing to hear people You know travel and work there and then even move there. I think it's it's kind of a cool thing. It's definitely opened my eyes Well, I say it's different. It's different. Can it give yeah Well, it's definitely different if you're going on a safari there for a week or two couple of weeks That's one thing but when you're going there to live there, that's a whole different kettle of fish there and It's great. I mean you definitely if you if you're if you're that kind of an adventure explorer type of person it's to be able to move to another country like that, it's it's pretty impressive and Yeah, I mean I wish her all the all the best there and that in the movie and we'll definitely be having to check in With her periodically. I'm just got my own curiosities from having spent time there in South Africa and of course

1:47:13 Namibia quite a bit and We definitely got to follow up with her to make sure we get the Invitate wedding invitation to Portugal. I hope I hope we got a prime see you again We should do she really think about doing a podcast there for the last from there. Oh, that'd be awesome They would love Her partner's like wait, I'm moving to Angola now you got these two jokers Whispering she's coming down the aisle Yeah, I'd be like it'd be like a golf. It'd be like a golf thing. Yeah. Yeah Now the minister starting this the ceremony and Here comes a tear. She's got a tear. Yes. You tear here comes here comes a ring bearer who's yeah who is born in 2020 yeah, you know a little little little Nathan That they would have us to be there we're gonna have fun We're gonna have fun with look we come as a package duo if anybody wants us at their wedding We can to commentate, you know podcast it from there. No problem whatsoever. Yeah, no, but it was great It was great to have her on it was great to be able to See what she's able to do and so yeah It was just it was wonderful to have her on we look at looking forward to having her back on seeing what she's able to Do after she moves to Angola. So Yeah, so that's our episode for today We'll put all our socials into her new website so that you can see what she's what she's up to And of course Dave if people

1:48:43 want to get a hold of you, how would they do that? Instagram lost shark guy and I go to go to my youtube channel at at lost shark guy and check out our Documentary series that Andrew and I are doing with the knee soda my or searching for lost sharks extinct are alive And we're gonna have a new episode up very soon Absolutely. If people want to check out our YouTube beyond just pod and Instagram beyond just pod Thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of the beyond just podcast. Have a great day We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation