The Hidden Story Behind 12000 Hours of Shark Footage: Why Dr. Oscar Sosa Just Made History

1:00:00 On today's episode of the Beyond Jobs podcast, we are here to celebrate a great honor for Dr. Oscar Sosa Nishizaki, who got an award recently. We're gonna talk about the award and what that award is on this episode, but we're here to celebrate him and find out what he's been up to, him and his lab have been up to since the last time he was on the episode and I believe it was 2022. We're gonna talk a lot about BRUVS. We're gonna talk a lot about what it's like to go over 12,000 hours of data and of video and I can't wait to talk about it, so let's start the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Beyond Jobs podcast. I'm your cohost Andrew Lewin here with my other cohost, Dr. David Ebert.

1:00:42 Dave, 12,000 hours of BRUVS video. Is that something that you would like to look over? I mean, that's pretty incredible. Somebody else could go, somebody else could pare it down to like the key moments. I'll go through the highlight reel. I'll just identify the species out there, that'll be good. It's gonna be like 11,999 hours of like just nothing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. For a couple seconds. Well tell you what, this is just part of the conversation that we had with Oscar. Oscar's always so great to have on the episode. It brings so much energy, so much knowledge, especially in Mexico and off the Pacific and it's always great to be able to talk to him.

1:01:26 Dave, do you wanna talk a little bit about the award that he won and why it's so important? Yeah, I mean, it's probably one of the most prestigious awards in Mexico for someone in his field and in the biological sciences. And as Oscar will explain in a few minutes, the person who was named after the award and it's really a lifetime achievement award and Oscar certainly was deserving. He's had an amazing career going back 40 plus years now. And he's still going strong. So we're, so yes, which is a great sign to see. And which I'm glad to see actually since we're the same age, I'm glad he's still going strong.

1:02:07 So I'm not like alone out there left. But it was a very prestigious award. I saw that he'd received it. We have to have this guy come on the show, talk about his award and so we'll let him share his story. Absolutely. And here is the interview with Oscar talking about his award, as well as all the other research that he's been up to since he was on last. Enjoy the interview and we'll talk to you after. Hey, Oscar, welcome back to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Are you ready to talk about sharks? I'm ready. Thank you, Andrew, one day for for invite me once again. I'm really honored to be here once again. I I'm really I was very surprised to invite me once again.

1:02:48 Meet our family list. We are honored as well. We love having you on us. It's great to have you back. Especially today. We want to welcome back an awesome guest, Dr. Oscar Sosa from Ensenada, Mexico, who is now, as we'll explain, it is even more awesome than he was before. Oscar is a fisheries research scientist at the Ensenada Center for Scientific Research and Higher Education. Sosa say in Baja and he has an extensive list of accomplishments, including advising and mentoring more than 60 graduate students. He's a prolific publisher with more than 100 publications. He serves as a vice chair on the IUCN shark specialist group. Oh, and Oscar and I have known each other since the mid 1980s.

1:03:31 When we both met for the first time in Tokyo, Japan, we were graduate students back in the day. And he was Oscar is also what was he mentioned. We were on the previous episode back on April 2023, episode 45. Please go back and catch it. She can hear Oscar's entire story and all the stories that I wish he'd forgotten about when we were in Japan together as young scratch students. And I will know Oscar. I did have more hair at that time. So yeah, a lot. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, but he's back on the program. They talk about a milestone in his career. We thought it was and I was really wanted to have him back talk about Oscar as a 2025 recipient of the Juan Luis Sufentes Limas Award.

1:04:16 It's a prestigious award from the Mexican Federation of Biology Biological Colleges. The committee awards of medal is the committee that awards is a composed of biologists who are basically peer review the candidates for this award. The name bear of the award, Juan Luis Sufentes Limas. Oscar, correct me wrong in a minute was a prominent Mexican biologist, widely recognized the leading figure, maybe even considered a godfather of biology in Mexico. He is a professor at the National Autonomous University of Mexico for many years and later joined the University of Guadalajara. He was a pioneer in Mexican marine biology with over 30 years of experience in the field. He held several important positions, including director general of the fisheries research and development program in Mexico.

1:05:00 He was also a president of the Mexican College of Biologists and teaching and instructing thousands of students and directed numerous thesis projects. His scientific work cover topics such as marine resources, fisheries, protozoa, invertebrates, biology, education and the history of science. He's a great popular popularizer of science. And one of his most famous quotes was what is known as valued and what is valued is cared for. And Oscar, welcome back to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm really, I don't know, very honorable to to me once again to tell you the truth. You got me by surprise day when you kindly invited me because of this award I just received.

1:05:44 But I really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah. Now, can you tell us a little bit like who I apologize if I mispronounce the name, but who who locked one Luis Sufentes Limas was. Well, this is a former professor. He passed away this year in May of this year, unfortunately. He's a very well known Mexican biologist that he really the most incredible thing that he had done is that he was he he did a lot of support for bringing the biology to several universities that they started with the biology bachelors in several universities.

1:06:30 And also he is the one that started to do diffusion. No, I'm sorry, outreach of science, marine science. He wrote several books and he is a very well known. His name is Juan Luis Sufentes Lemus. Yes, it's a for me, it's a very difficult name to pronounce. It's not not a common name. So it is it is an honor. You know, this is as you say, this kind of the godfather of biology in Mexico, the general of biology and the specific especially for for marine biology.

1:07:11 He has a lot of influence in many of the places where marine biology is today are a study. This was this something that was considered like a lifetime achievement award for someone's had a distinguished career like yourself. Well, there are several awards. One is a reaching one is research that is the one I bought and others are management. And it is it means to to be between the pairs. Try to do that. And that's the value I got from it.

1:07:51 Actually, I'm very happy to because the way it is done is that some of my peers from the former university, when I saw the bachelors, they decided that they want to push me to to get the war. And they made everything a campaign to to to do so in in size of this biology association. And I'm very glad I'm very happy and I'm very grateful for for them to to think about me. One of the reasons that they start to think of me is that recently in May, I received and I in Mexico, we have a.

1:08:39 Our national research system, which is a system that holds all is to apply and you get a recognition as a national research researcher. And there are different levels. And I, fortunately, I went all through all all the labels and I got an emeritus, which is from my from my peers, from my friends, from this we we study in the same years. I'm the first one to get that. So that's how we they come to the idea and they put these two things together and send me to to these.

1:09:24 What's what? What was it's not it's always nice because it's by your peers basically recognize your accomplishments and nominated you and and promoted you for this award. So that's that's always real special to be recognized by your by your peers. Like, are you so you are you the first shark person person that doesn't receive the award now? I think I think I am. I am. I think I am. And they mentioned that in the in the presentation. And actually, you know, most of the biologists are in the highlands and they work in in terrestrial species, plant species.

1:10:04 But I'm the first thing that is working in sharks for for these. That's even better because people do sharks tend to get overlooked by. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I know. It's like they'll give it to people do everything else but sharks. So it's really really says a lot about your accomplishments to to be able to to be able to get get that award. So so does that so that does it mean your your your students now give you added respect now or I don't think so. Oh, no, yes. Yes. But, you know, I'm very I'm very happy with all of them and they they were very happy and we are going to celebrate these, you know, increase.

1:10:53 We every year we have a laboratory party at my house. This time is going to be some sales. We have like what we call the Posada, which is the these parties that you have before Christmas. And they are 12 Posada. So this just start long before Christmas to have some parties. And that's very familiar family time parties. You know, and we always have the Posada. And this time is we are going to have so much things to celebrate. Yeah. Say so. Well, if I see it at the Neff's meeting in March, we'll have to have another one.

1:11:36 Yeah. They're in Newport, Oregon. Yeah. Yes. It only be appropriate. You know, yeah. And I know there's going to probably be this is going to sound like a redundant question, but do that mean they get they get increase your pay salary now more? No, I was in the general director's office, but I'm on the top. So I cannot make that's OK. Oh, it's OK. It's OK. I wish I wish. Well, you know, it's yeah, it's assured that I will keep that salary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to cut. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's good. That's good.

1:12:16 Good news. So what so well, since it's been it's been whatever it's been what two and a half over two and a half years since we talked. So what what other thing? What have you been up to besides winning prestigious awards? Well, we we have people going on in the recent years. We have concentrated in three things. One is developing a monitoring. I think I talk in the last time developing monitoring with broths for the natural protected area of Los Angeles. That it has been they don't have a systematic monitoring.

1:12:58 And we have a develop the protocol for for them to to do monitoring and we have keep doing monitoring for two years and a half. So we have a lot of videos and things to check. And we and also we use drones, which for maybe for the U.S. is sounds to be a simple, simple techniques to be keeping more people doing money for. But for us, you know, to get the money and it was a little bit quite hard work to to get them.

1:13:41 So with that, I'm very happy. We are we to wrap up the next year at the beginning of next year. But also we have and we have some we have very interesting videos for for race in the area. We have different species of race. So we I think we will have some very interesting information about the diversity on race taken by brops. And in the area of Los Angeles. So I think it became an Israel. This important shark and race area is that it's happening with the U.C.

1:14:23 And this I U.C.M. Project by Los Angeles became an eyes. I think you you you pronounce it in English. And and both with this information, we will support more that that. That name, you know, that's that's the the the information for to keep growing the to make to make a more robust area based on on on on scientific information. So we are really happy to be doing not so much sharks, but a lot of race differently.

1:15:03 So we are well, razor just flat shark. So they're they need to love to, you know, that's something. Go ahead. When you talk about the brovs, how many like how long like how long is the video when you go through that stuff and and who goes through all of that? OK, yeah, that's interesting question. Yeah, you know what the way we are doing is in each location because we have 11 locations in each location. We put five, five. Yes, five brops each time. In the locations, we see that the bros for one hour.

1:15:47 So we go and we start very early in the morning. We go sit there, the bros wait one hour and start to pick them up. OK, just to be to to have one hour of of of feeling. We I think that we have 12000 hours of of of video. So it is incredible. And of course, yes, by this time. And of course, it takes a lot of times. We have several younger students just that they are finishing their bachelor's or they are.

1:16:28 They have to do services as well. They are studying. They have to do so do some service professional services. We call in Mexico that they have to to work in one lab to reinforce some hours. They have helped us and we are working with them. And we are not done that. I mean, that we still we have one year of of after we are done with the project, we will finish it one year. It's a lot of of that. Of course, we are making different approximations that people do in the international arena to do or to analyze these videos.

1:17:11 And also, and you will hear the next this this meeting that is going to be next March. One of my students is she's going to present that an AI she says is to select so you can tell the difference basically. Right. Yeah. I know that there are some problems they are yeah. and they are costly and you have to train in any way, you know, and we decided because we have here in my center the capacity to develop these kinds of things.

1:18:01 And we got a good arrangement with another researcher that works in computer science and we are working together, which has been very incredible, very fascinating job to do. And for me, it's very interesting. Yeah. Because it's interesting because I know like they can do it from pictures. So I know there's a there's a organization in Australia that works on the well in the Great Barrier Reef and they you can it's like a citizen science project where you can identify. I think they look at like, you know, what what's consistent of the reef. Is it a boulder? Is it like a what is it like a branching coral or is it a flat coral? Then you can kind of the AI kind of detects it and you just confirm it.

1:18:46 And then you can go through an app and just do it over and over and over again. With video, it must be a little different because you got to capture the shape and the size and then you can identify it, maybe take a picture of it and then ship it. And then somebody confirms the species and things like that. But I mean, that would help that would help process the data so much faster and so much more efficiently for for your lab, right, to be able to get to get all that kind of stuff. Because that's 12000 hours. Yeah, it's a lot. How many students do you have now, Oscar? Well, you know, I've always. 12000, Dave.

1:19:28 Sorry. No, I don't have that much. I like I like to keep it easy in the sense that each student has if you want to have a good resource, I think that the less students you have and work with them is the better, you know, or you grow a big team that you all together. Everybody helps each other between us. So that's the type of laboratory I'm running. And now I have five students. The largest number of students in the lab is the one that I have. So for many students, the largest number, it's seven or 10, maybe, but they don't allow me to have so much students.

1:20:17 The program doesn't allow me to have more than than six or seven students. So if I what I do is in the laboratory is that the postdocs take attention of or are the are the many advisors for the students and then I participate in the committees and discuss and we have a very friendly and very I think that is an efficient way of doing things but all always high quality and always teaching you know I want my students to go to net and be on the same level as you guys in the other side of the board so that's the effort I I love to do. Yeah you've always had really good all the ones I've always met have always been very good the ones the ones you've brought in the past that I've gotten that I've met a little bit and stuff so yeah but the other hard thing is it feels there's just not like a lot of jobs when people finish that's their degree that's that's a hard thing yes that's true especially for for doctor and students we I I think it's a a war problem that that we have so many doctors doctoral PhDs that they don't have work and they have to keep on a postdocs for dogs postdoc and they get like our heads that's why we're bald yeah yeah so it's not a fair system but

1:21:51 uh yeah but they want to do it you know and you have to support them that's yeah well I always tell you always tell the students like this is gonna be your best time you're gonna enjoy doing sharks because after graduate school it's not going to be a lot of well I don't say it won't be a lot of fun but there you won't have the opportunities you have now to just go in the field and do your stuff because after that if you can well if you can find a job which there's very few out there you're going to be stuck probably behind a desk looking at a computer most of the day okay because nobody nobody goes out in the field um like for you I mean for you do you spend most you probably on the field a little bit but don't your students pretty much do most of the bulk of the field stuff now yes yes uh most of them know in my lab that as we have been running this program we go we used to go every month and then we switch to every two months just for for the money and uh and now we are finishing this uh two twice uh I think that uh every four months because so we are finishing we we complete one year and a half cycle and and uh that's that's uh everybody has to go to the to to the to the field especially if you are going to be seated in the in front of a screen and look in this you have to understand how how value is that uh uh video of how we

1:23:21 was you know this since the beginning so we take everybody here yeah do you do students have to get because the drone stuff I think is super cool but such a new thing do your students have to go get checked out and like get like a drone drone license no uh yeah don't tell anyone okay just between us no this you have to to be traded but it's still in mexico because of the side of the drone that we have is uh up to now it hasn't been uh uh necessary to to have a license to to I think that for synthesized up hours that that you need a license and then the navy and uh the permit and I feel like that but no no the drone the size of the drone that we are working we are in the limit we are really in the limit yeah the most all your students learn how to use the drone no just uh there are very few and uh but they they do that I mean there are a couple uh yeah some of them get nervous to to use it so so sometimes you know they they better they like better to to be to be looking videos and working on the field taking out the drops and things like that yes okay okay yeah well that must be I just thought about that it must

1:24:52 be kind of nice to be able to complement the uh the the drone stuff with your bruv stuff this this that was the main idea in some of the places we we are we are going to do that we have the boat boat information the brovs inside and the the drone flying and that's an one of a secret place date that I found for for for race in one part of that that that's one thing that I will try to keep going even the ride retired which is going to be soon as I I said going to be maybe two years that I will retire and um and that's very interesting area and I'm sure that's that the ecological significance of this area is it's quite big in the Gulf of California so I will rework you know you said you and the bruv stuff you've seen some rays on the bruv that you had not didn't know occurred there no I I think that we are doing if there is uh some new things or maybe you know what what with some experts to help us to to to to identify them and be sure that every any anytime soon we will start talking your door and say hey Dave what is this you know are we doing the right things because I know that you are very well on the list so yes yeah yeah just don't send me any

1:26:23 euro betas any round sting race because those are like oh no no yeah I'm stupid though not that much either those are like you got those are like a pain in the ass to like to be able to ID those things man unless you just want to call them all euro euro betas halerite that's thing just done you know don't worry about it yeah yeah they're just so they're so hard to do they're so hard to figure out with all of those things there so you so you're talking so you're very happy to hear you're still planning to work another couple of years because then like you know at least you and I can keep going along together everybody else everybody else is like bailing out on us so it's like it's been out here like the last so I'm glad you got at least a couple more years and so what what kind of goals or objectives do you have for the next um do you have any that that's the second news I want to share with you guys is that uh through the years when we have working we have uh uh accumulate uh several uh specimens uh joes uh shark heads we have a beautiful uh hammerheads a dry hammerhead uh head with the joe's and the I I cannot remember this part of the the the sharks how they go the head the face the the hammer mantle the hammer yeah okay well the hammer okay hammer okay now we have a uh a head of a

1:27:53 juvenile white shark that we we uh got from the other gulf of california and several things so uh this all this material after i'm going and because i don't see clearly that if uh if it's my laboratory is going to continue to be working on sharks what we decided is to to open uh um in the local natural museum which is a very uh a small museum but very important for kids and families we are going to open uh how do you call it like a natural history oh room nice oh i mean a a special a special site for sharks so we are preparing this and this is going to be this uh all the material is going to be sit there they will start for one year of exhibition and this exhibition i don't know if they keep it afterwards but they will get all this material that we have accumulated from the laboratory to be part of of their own material a part of their exhibition and they have an uh an exhibition of of uh marine marine organisms marine ecology exhibition so we'll be part of it at the end but we will uh open in next march after i come from nev's the next following week is the opening

1:29:23 of these exhibition on sharks for the general public so i'm very happy so that's one thing that we are missing yeah that's really good yes so it will be for for for everybody in the city for oh that's that's neat that's that's it it'll just it'll be right it'll be there in ancenata yes it is going to be in our museum the local museum it's an outreach this team actually now they have a very neat uh exhibition on dinosaurs and then they will put they want us to put the i mean we we know their door and say you know we have all these bunch of materials and we would like to to give to you guys uh because if i we we retire is where i'm going to put is is my technician and me Carmen Rodriguez is uh my my friend and we work together and and she came with that idea and we we did it you know we are on the way to to to to to be to become a reality in our march and yeah well that's great that's really good that's really good to see so well it's well Oscar it's been great to have you back on here to get catch up with you and everything and um here and congratulations on your award um that's really pretty special and uh it's nice you know trying to think about you get when you get one of these words for your lifetime career it's like well you hope you got some more lifetime to enjoy it with

1:30:54 and stuff of your career yeah thank you i was really glad to see you and uh we'll definitely have have you come back on at least well within the two years so when you retire we'll have a special retirement episode for you and maybe we'll have we'll have some tequila together may i'll have to and you know come down there and have a put do a live show do a live show with you yeah that will be great that will be great that will be great and you can have some videos to to verify this piece is that there you go put your work dave there you go of course there would know as long as you guys got some good tequila there we're good man i'm sure that yeah yeah we'll get andrew we'll get andrew involved him and id and after a few shots of tequila there you go no problem because there's well as i'm sure it's just a hammer it's good good well oscar i hope i hope we'll see you catch you in march uh at the northeast pacific shark symposium the neps meeting and uh otherwise hopefully maybe in uh also maybe in may at the sharks international and um in shrill lanka so uh but anyway thanks so much for coming on and again congratulations and everything no thank you okay thank you very very very thank you because of the the way do you invited me and i'm very honored to be with you always and let's keep let's wait for two years and have them tequila absolutely love it congratulations again

1:32:27 on your on your award definitely thank you very much thank you very okay thanks a lot thank you oscar for joining us on today's episode of the beyond jaws podcast congratulations on your award we love having you on we love hearing what you're up to obviously 12 000 hours of bruv video is a lot to go through it was kind of interesting how he's talking about you know he has a student who's trying to develop ai like an ai platform or i guess an ai tool to go through all that video and identify that i feel like that's where uh you know the research is going to be productive within ocean research is to take away a lot of that time that you have to go through videos because you know normally you'd have to go through each and every video divide it up among students and everybody take a few hours and have to go through and watch every piece and try and identify obviously you're going to go through fast forward a little bit but it's still a lot to to take in um very interesting in that respect but uh dave you know what do you want to talk a little bit about you know oscar and and why he deserves this award and and you know your history are with him yeah well as we talked touched on again and and please go back and see the original episode it was in april of 2023 and he um cherished about his whole journey but him and i actually met as graduate students in tokyo japan and uh which is pretty funny it was amazing amazing opportunity there to meet and it's kind of cool going through a journey together like you had and that's a neat thing particularly younger people are starting out you make these uh connections early in your

1:33:57 career and it's funny to see 40 years later here we are and the latter parts of our career and the great thing about oscar's he's kind of like me doesn't have doesn't have any interest in like retiring right now he's going to go at least another couple of years and uh which is great to hear you know and um but yeah he's just he's just he's had a fabulous career and it's really i'm really happy to see him you know get re rewarded by that and rent and the big thing is his peers recognize them for it so it was really yeah that makes it all the more special uh you know when your peers recognize you for receiving an award like that and um and i didn't really know about the uh the uh the person who was named after but i was glad to hear a little bit hear a little bit about him hear a little bit about the individual who was quite a quite accomplished in mexico which makes the award all that more significant i think that he was able to receive that so uh so yeah i was like this great having him on and hopefully won't have to wait too long and he said he wants to work another couple years we'll definitely have him on when he retire it does retire but um we will have him on again before that if he has some other get some other uh great award like this indeed indeed yeah i think it's uh you know it's it's something that's really interesting when people win these awards a lot of times you know we don't celebrate it enough we're able to do that on this podcast giving him the recognition that he deserves um because you know when you when you do a lot of the work that he does and there's an opportunity to get nominated for that award and your peers recognize you as he says he's really honored and

1:35:28 and you know as he should be but also he deserves it and it was really nice for his uh his colleagues to be to be able to recognize that and nominate him for that award um and he's able to have that as a distinction so i think that's uh that's really that's really fun and i think for people don't don't see this part of the show oftentimes we as as andrew and i tend to do with a lot of our guests we spent like an hour after the show talking sports catching up on football talk about the world series talk about the world the pittsburgh steelers oakland raider it was just um which we are ready to talk about the world series too much yeah oh yeah but well for me for him and i was kind of great reminiscing about the pittsburgh steelers and the oakland raider yes and if you're old enough to remember the 1970s john madden was a coach back then so he knew if you most of you probably remember more as a as an annette as an announcer but let me tell you he was a hell of a character and a great coach you know what's funny too it's like i don't think a lot of people will know him even as an announcer these days i think they'll know him for his video game like the madden football video game which is quite popular which is interesting like the different generations right that come in and what they recognize him for i mean hall of fame renouncer hall of fame and he played the nfl too didn't he uh i don't know if you can play the nfl but he played he played college football offensive lineman yeah he went to cal poly san luis abyspo actually oh there you go he played played out there and stuff but someday we have to do an outtake and just like record the after show after show show on the sports talk we have some time we should

1:36:58 believe and and i have talked about this like doing a sports podcast uh just kidding have it have it will have on shark people that play sports and which is which is quite extensive people may not realize yeah we just and we just spent our time just spent like we ripped off an hour here with oscar just talking about football baseball talked about hockey i learned if oscar and i learned a few hockey things that we didn't know from andrew and uh so you know we could do this as maybe uh next year we'll do this part of our patreon or something and so yeah i want to support the show they can get extra content of the stuff that we'll just record after we uh after we talk after we do the actual interview so perfect yeah well that's something to look out for in 2026 so stay tuned if you really love what we talk about we talk about sports we talk about science we talk about conferences we talk about everything it's a lot of fun so you can check tequila 26 and tequila sometimes absolutely um but anyway uh dave this has been wonderful obviously oscar thank you so much congratulations on your award uh this is something that's very uh we're very proud of you and and honor that you come on the podcast to talk about it um and dave if people want to get a hold of you how would they do so uh it's a lost shark guy on instagram and uh lost shark guy on youtube and please go to the youtube channel we're doing andrew and our producer series searching for lost sharks extinct or live funded by the save our seas foundation and uh please go there and check it out and please subscribe it really helps uh helps with uh help support the cause absolutely wonderful and if you guys want to yeah if you

1:38:28 want to check us out beyond jaws pod on on instagram as well as on um on youtube check us out you can watch us do the interviews you can watch uh oscar talk about his award and i want to thank you guys thank you dave and thank you oscar and thank you the audience for you know listening to each and every one of our episodes we really appreciate it thank you so much for joining us on the beyond jaws podcast from dave and i have a great day we'll talk to you next time and happy conservation