The Big Question at Sharks International 2026: Are We Saving Sharks the Right Way?

1:00:00 Welcome back to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Today's episode, we are going to be covering Sharks International 2026, which takes place in Sri Lanka. We have Daniel Fernando, who's on the podcast who helped organize, was in charge of organizing all of Sharks International. So he was able to sit down with us out of his busy schedule and talk to us about what went into the planning, what to expect at Sharks International. That's happening as we publish this is happening right now. So it's going to be amazing to find out all about it. If you're there and you're listening to this, it'll be interesting to see what you feel of how you're feeling your experience is so far on the first day, but other than that, let's just start the show.

1:00:42 Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. I'm your co-host, Andrew Lewin, here with my co-host who's doing double duty here. He's on here and he's at Sharks International as we speak, David Ebert. Dave, how are you doing? You joined the conference? Absolutely. I was just kind of kicking off today, but I got in on Saturday. And of course, you know, I love going to these conferences like Sharks International because once every four years and I see people like Daniel and others that, you know, I may, what maybe run into in between, but most of the time a lot of the people here I run into at the conference that I haven't seen for a few years. And even though we might correspond, it's great to catch up in person, have some coffee, have a beer or whatever, or some tea or what.

1:01:23 And it's just, it's super nice seeing everybody here in person. And I've been actually been to Sri Lanka before and it's beautiful country. I absolutely love, love coming here. Just halfway, literally halfway around the world for you and me to come here. But it's a, it's a, it's a beautiful country. I'm really happy to, to be back. And I'm looking forward to the conference this week and yeah, work and he's kind of kicking off the, his episodes kicking off the week here on Monday and we'll be rerunning some of the reposting. I should say some of the episodes with some of the keynote speakers. Yeah. Several of the younger people have not been on the podcast before. So it was pretty exciting, pretty exciting for us. Yeah, absolutely. It's always nice to hear new voices from all over the world.

1:02:05 And it's great to be able to, to connect with them. And as some people will be connecting with them through their keynotes, others will be connecting through them on the podcast, which is, which is great to get more exposure for the, for these young leaders. And of course, you know, what's nice, what I love is like we look at the list and we'll be reposting the interviews every single keynote on the podcast now. And I think that's, that's pretty cool. Sometimes we did it before or like long before other times we have updated episodes and so you're going to hear from, you're going to be able to hear or you've been hearing from them as we go through. You know, we have a feed go friend, a Zoya already that's been published. We also, who do we have?

1:02:46 We have Sarah Fowler, guys, Steve, go guys, Stevens, Guido, Guido, Barbara, we just had, yeah, we just had on in the last year. So that's kind of a, Martha too, I believe Martha was this past year as well. So, yeah. So we've had a number of this. So we had a number of the people on there and of course people like, like Guy and Sarah, I know Sarah has been on a few times now and Guy might be, might be due to time to have Guy back on sometime. I think so. So check and see what he's up to. But, but yeah, it's really good. But we'll have, in fact, we'll try to post a repost all these episodes. Cause all these people have been on the other, other people have been on the show.

1:03:29 And it's, it's going to get exciting conference. I know for those of you that not directly in the field, it might seem a bit nerdy or sort of inside baseball, but it's, it really is like the conference to go to now in the field. They have it. And as Daniel will talk about his first one, it's been in Asia, which would be really exciting for people in that part of the world. And it's the conference has moved around to it's been in started off in Australia. It's been to South Africa, Brazil, Spain, and now Sri Lanka. So I'll be interested at the end of the week to find out where it's going to be going next. Yeah, that's always the fun. You get the little bets that go on, you know, to find out where it's going to be and you get the rumors and stuff. And then they finally announced it at the end.

1:04:10 I always liked that. It's like a bonus thing. You almost forget about it a little bit. And then people get to know it. And then people get to know it. And then people get to know it. You almost forget about it a little bit. And then people will mention it as they get to near the end of the conference and stuff. Where do you think it's going to be without like, I don't know if you have any insider information. No, I actually don't. I don't even know who I mean, I know some places I'd like to see it go, but I don't know. I really don't know where I really don't have any idea where that might go next. Well, it's here where you'd like to see it go. I'd like to see it like maybe somewhere in Central America, like Costa Rica or someplace. Oh, yeah, that'd be cool. Yeah, that's a lot of shark activity in Costa Rica. And oh, yeah. A lot going on. A lot going on. Probably get some get some eyes and get some great people that are that are. Yeah. Or Panama, you know, you got, you know, I'm sure, you know, Rachel Graham doesn't have much to do these days.

1:04:55 So I love hearing that. Yeah. Since you just been on the podcast. Yeah. With like some major news. Nothing. Nothing. We've decided we decided to throw our weight behind Panama for the next one here with. Rachel Graham. Hosting. Yeah. Central America would be, I think would be a fun place to go. There's a lot of stuff going on. As I gives access to a lot of South American countries to come up and. Yeah. It's in countries as well. It's hard to do a lot of like, you know, the U S or Canada and even a lot of Western European countries in Japan, just because it's so expensive to have a conference there.

1:05:35 For sure. Places here. And I mean, I can tell you from my own experience, like I can airfare aside going to like Sri Lanka, these places, it's cheaper than going to a conference in America. Right. Right. Airfare aside. And so you just so you. So a lot of countries are kind of kind of it's really hard to have them there. For sure. A lot of people can't afford. And so you have to have people on the ground that can organize a conference to as Daniel found out, I think. A little more than we expect. He was a little more than he was expecting in the term to the conference there.

1:06:16 But he also, I think being where he is strategically, they'll have a lot of countries that have not been able to go. Yeah. That's important to I think it's giving access to people who don't have go. But let's hear that from day before we get on a tangent here. Let's get here that from Daniel. Talking about the sharks international 2026, the planning, what to expect when you get there and what to expect from the conference. Enjoy and we'll talk to you after. Hey, Daniel, welcome back to the Beyond Jaws podcast. Are you ready to talk about sharks international? Yes, of course. And thanks so much for having me back on. Really appreciate it. You bet. You bet. Well, welcome to the another episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast, where we have a really special returning guest.

1:06:58 We have Daniel Fernandez, the co-founder of the Blue Resources Trust and the director of the Blue Resources Trust Fisheries and Policy Program in Sri Lanka. Daniel is one of our first group of guests we ever had on all the way back in November 2021. We just started the podcast. He was on as part of the Wedgefish and Guitar Fish Symposium we had. And Daniel, he also he provides technical support for a lot of break management policy for conventions such as CITES, Convention International Trade and Endangered Species and the Convention and Migratory Species, CMS, helping to bridge the gap between science and policy and encouraging a shift towards sustainable fisheries.

1:08:03 He's also an associate director of the Manta Trust, a terrific organization run by our friend Guy Stevens. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. Just thank you. Thank you so much for that amazing but extremely long introduction. Just one minor correction that I'm no longer the vice chair of the Indian Ocean SSG. I did step down to give opportunities to other people and to be able to focus on Chaksi National since it's giving quite a bit of time. Just a little busy. Just a little busy. Just a little busy. Completely understandable for that. So, Daniel, for you, sir, why don't you just tell the audience a little bit about your background and Blue Resources Trust. Sure. So, I'm actually half Sri Lankan, half German, but I grew up in Sri Lanka and I've lived pretty much my entire life here.

1:08:49 And, yeah, I started out in the shark and rear world by studying Manta and mob libraries, mostly at the fishery landing sites across Sri Lanka. At that time, there was very little information about these species, very few organizations across the world that were studying them, actually very few individuals. And, yeah, together with the Manta Trust helped set up the program here in Sri Lanka and a few other fishery monitoring programs across the wider region as well. And through all of that work, we kind of realized that there was a big gap in Sri Lanka when it comes to research across all sharks and rays, not just the Manta and mob libraries.

1:09:30 Then we decided it was time to sort of set up an organization that would both enable us to do further research in the country, but also to enable others who were not really having many opportunities in the country to be able to carry out research easily. You know, simple stuff like getting research permits or just being aware that there were opportunities in this field was something that was really lacking. So, yeah, that was kind of the primary incentive and motivated to set up Blue Resources Trust. And, yeah, we've been operating for 10 years now and have grown significantly during this period of time.

1:10:12 Amazing. Great. That's amazing. That's amazing. So, so if you guys you kind of like how many how many people do you have now working for you, working and working as volunteer interns for you? So at the moment, I have a team of about 15 in total. So this is these are stuff that are going around collecting data from fishery landing sites across the country. So doing, you know, the really hard and challenging work of counting basically the sharks and mares and occasionally kind of areas that we encounter these landing sites to get a better understanding of species diversity.

1:10:53 And we also have a policy team that works closely with national agencies in the concrete to try and improve management of these species and at the same time provide advice to international conventions such as CIDs and CMS. I just asked you to decide to host the Sharks International. Yeah, I do question myself sometimes. Honestly, I think it was, you know, when I was chatting with you as well back in 2018 in Brazil at sharks international and I remember, I think it was with Julia Spade at that time, I was just randomly talking to her, you know about sharks international and I can't exactly remember but somehow the conversation came up to you know, why shouldn't one have it in Sri Lanka at some point. And I, yeah, I started asking around and then realized, of course, at that time, it had already been committed to Spain in 2022.

1:11:55 So then I figured, okay, let's put our name down for the one after that. And yeah, we are extremely grateful to have received the bid to host this amazing conference and for the first time in Asia, which is an incredibly large responsibility as well. So, yeah, we're we're been working quite hard over the last few years to get a lot of funding to be able to make it as accessible as possible, which is of course challenging for conference of this scale because it's grown dramatically over the last two iterations. Yeah, just to get people not familiar with the sharks international started in 2010 was the first one in cans Australia and Michelle Hypel is really the has been the driving force of this whole thing setting this thing up and getting this getting this whole whole conference going and this this came off a conference they had in the early 90s back in like 1991 or 92.

1:12:52 And they had sort of an international shark conference in Australia and it was sort of a once off at the time and then years later, like I said in 2010 Michelle well prior to 2010 she decided to organize this new international conference called sharks international and the first one was in in cans Australia. And I don't think the and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think she envisioned it really was going to carry on after the first one. She thought it was kind of another going to be another sort of one and done and then the next thing you know we're in Durban South Africa in 2014. So, yeah. And then and then as you mentioned, we're in Brazil in 2018 I I think what happened on the Brazil thing why brought up Sri Lanka to you. I do kind of remember that conversation.

1:13:38 I just been I just been to Sri Lanka visiting with you. We're on a field trip. Beautiful country was one Sri Lanka is one of those places I want to go to Mike my entire life going back so far used to be called salon the country before it became Sri Lanka. That's how more much back I want to go there. And so I thought this would be a great place to have it. And so next thing we know like here we are eight years later and your host and the host in the conference. So congratulations, I think. Yeah, thanks. I mean, we're really appreciative to have it here. And it's amazing to see the support that we received, you know, several of our primary funders. I mean, we have a long list of funders, but you know, particular shout outs actually to the Seva Sees Foundation, the Paul Angel Family Foundation, Shark Conservation Fund, Pro Foundation and the Mote Marine Lab and the Marine Conservation Action Fund of the New England Aquarium. You know, they have been our primary supporters of this conference. And, you know, it's, yeah, it's an incredible group of people that are really helping support our team on the ground here with all of the work with all of the logistical work and, you know, figuring out the schedules for the conference and doing all sorts of things that we've never had to do before. And I think one of the amazing things about Sharks International is that we're really excited to be here.

1:15:01 And one of the things about Sharks International, which many people don't realize is that there isn't a body behind this conference, you know, it's, it's not like a year so year that, you know, have these bodies and groups that are, you know, a little more well worth hosting these meetings because at least there's a little bit more transference that takes place. And those meetings happen on an annual basis. So it's a little bit easier as well. But here, it basically gets handed over to a host and it's up to the host to kind of figure out everything. So it's been a learning process for us. It has its ups and downs and its usual challenges. But yeah, we have over 800 registered pocket sponsor at the moment.

1:15:46 I was going to ask you how many you had over 800 registered people now to attend. How many usually come to those to the Sharks International Conference? So the one in Durban, if I'm not mistaken, was about 300 or 350. And then in Brazil, it's a bit unclear, but I think probably between 500 to 600. Okay. Yeah. And then in 2022, because it goes at the tail end of COVID and of course, all of the challenges with, you know, semi virtual conference, and then also limitations that they had on the venue itself. And I think as a result of COVID partly, I think they were restricted to about 400 or 450 participants. Okay. Yeah, it's almost like doubling since the last conference. And, and I think the number of abstracts that were submitted, and we received just over 1000 abstracts, we were not expecting that we were expecting between 400 to 500 abstracts with the conference and we received just over 1000.

1:16:50 Wow. And I think one of the primary reasons for this was because it is being hosted in Asia for the first time, making it a lot more accessible to people that otherwise couldn't consider conferences like Sharks International because they were often held in countries where visas were incredibly challenging to obtain, in addition to, of course, the costs of getting access to many of those countries. Right. Yeah, because I think it's a positive step forward, but a lot more asking to increase. I find it amazing how, you know, you get so many people like it's been growing and growing every year, it seems other than obviously the COVID year because it's the end of COVID that that that's understandable but, you know, to get to 800 even from before five 600 I think you said in it was a Brazil, or even Durban, you know, like that's, that's a huge amount of growth, especially I mean, like, you know, obviously, I live in Canada, so this is this is really far, but just being in Sri Lanka, you know, being able to have everybody congregate in one place, in a place like, like Sri Lanka, which I've never been there. I've heard nothing but amazing things, like in terms of the beauty and the beaches are amazing and to have everybody come in, in that area to be able to see the area to be able to to congregate and like 800 people be able to interact.

1:18:10 It's phenomenal. You must be pretty happy with the results or I guess with the with the amount of people that are coming. Yeah, for sure. I mean, like I said, you know, we were not expecting this volume. We had actually always planned for between about 600 to 800 expecting a best case scenario of about 700 early. So at the moment, we are just over 800 and we expect also quite a few last minute participating from national agencies and all of that, you know, join on at the very last moment. At the very last moment, as usual. Yeah, so it's it's incredible. But I think what's also really nice with this iteration is that we're seeing, at least, you know, we hope to see also as you can, as you're well aware, there are lots of travel complications at the moment in our world.

1:18:57 But hopefully, if everybody makes it, we would be having quite a bit of a diverse audience this time, which is something that we have really been pushing for this time. You know, not just ensuring a mix between scientists and policymakers and funders, but also ensuring that a lot of the global south are able to attend. And that is a big reason why we heavily subsidized the registration rates, I think, compared to the actual cost of each participant attending for students from the global south. I think it's about 88 or 90 percent subsidy that we have put in place. That's amazing. So, yeah, it's not perfect.

1:19:38 And it's still, you know, it is still a considerable cost for many people from Asia and, you know, other parts of the world, particularly from the global south to attend such conferences. It's by no means cheap, but we have tried our best to reduce costs as much as possible. And I think over $50,000 of travel grants have been issued out as well to students from the global south. Yeah, that's amazing. Do you get much of much from many people from Africa going to be able to make it? Not as many as we would like. I think again, getting just Sri Lanka, even from Africa is still quite a distance and the considerable cost.

1:20:21 But we, yeah, we do have quite a few and from a mix of countries. I don't have all the numbers off the top of my head right now, but globally, I think we have at least about 82 countries being represented at the global south. And I think that's a good question. I was going to ask the question I asked you how many countries you have compared to some of the other other countries. 82 is pretty good. You have a lot of I don't know if you know this answer, but it'd be do you have a number of countries, people coming from countries that have not been to sent representatives before? That's a good question. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, you know, since sharks International doesn't sort of have a body behind it, there isn't also this data recording taking place.

1:21:07 And that's something that we actually kind of change as well. We are keeping a very detailed written record this time, which we will be handing over to our next hosts of the conference so that there's a little bit of comparisons that they can do from a statistical perspective of numbers and participation. So yeah, honestly, I don't know, but I would imagine there must be some Asian countries that haven't previously attended conferences. And we've gotten a lot of emails from individuals who have been quite grateful that this conference is being posted in Sri Lanka. We have a very high number of participants from the mortgage from India, Malaysia, Indonesia, the sure we're not able to access previous previous sharks International conferences.

1:21:57 That is so cool. International. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's good. It's good. It's a good. It's a nice good thing is that it's moved around so much over the years to different geographical areas and stuff just to attract people from different regions because why not? I know like just for North America. So that's a long it's a lot slurry literally halfway around the world to get all the way to order the Sri Lanka is. But I suppose one thing that we want to highlight is that is the norm for us in our part of the world. Right. I mean, all of the shark conferences, the large ones, a s e a, you know, and okay, the oceania one as well. It is a significant distance for us to travel. And even if one has the funds for the travel, the bigger challenge for most participants is visa access.

1:22:46 So for example, getting a visa to the US or to Europe, it can take usually about three months for Sri Lankan citizen to get a visa for those countries. And it involves, of course, a lot of paperwork, a lot of time and of course, also the cost of the visa. So that's something that changes when you have it in countries like Sri Lanka, even though it's perhaps a bit more of a correct for those in the US and Europe. It's a destination where you can apply for an online visa at a relatively low cost. And it's guaranteed pretty much everybody. There are only four countries in the world who have to go through a slightly different procedure, which we are able to facilitate as well.

1:23:32 So it really makes it a lot more accessible. And I think that's what we need to be looking at when we look at destinations for future conferences. Yeah. Now you've been you mentioned you'd been to the which ones have you been to? Or you're in Brazil. I know. Were you were you in Durban? You're in Durban, weren't you? Yeah, I was in Durban as well. Okay. How about you? Were you in Cairns? I don't remember. No, no, I didn't think I was trying to remember which one, which one you'd been to. I remember I knew Durban because I knew you. I didn't know you at Cairns, but I knew you in Durban. So I remember, I remember there. So when you when you started like so Michelle Heifel is kind of the instigator, this whole thing back in 2010. And was she of any help to you at all?

1:24:12 Yeah, I mean, we're extremely grateful. You know, Michelle has always been there to answer any questions to provide us advice. Yeah, it's been really incredible. You know, we've had a good team of advisors supporting us behind the scenes. And of course, you know, the funders whom I mentioned, going beyond just financially supporting the conference, but also being there to give us advice and support with any challenges that we have faced so far. Yeah, it's been it's been really nice working with all of them. So are there any are there any things going on this year? I know this could be kind of an inside baseball, as we say, thing, but are there any neat things you're doing this year that haven't been done at previous Sharks International conferences?

1:24:55 Well, that's a good question. I mean, I would say one thing we're trying this time is having joined keynote speakers, and of course, you've interviewed a few of them already. So instead of sort of the more typical setup where we have, you know, one keynote speaker speaking for about 50 minutes or so, we have two keynote speakers each speaking for about 25 minutes and then a joint question and answers. And we were just trying to figure out sort of pairings that we've been doing. And so we're just trying to figure out sort of pairings that would complement each other and talking about similar topics and, you know, hoping that just provides a bit bit more of a diverse perspective to the participants at the conference and also providing more opportunities to younger people to try to put a focus on this. So it hasn't necessarily always been established senior scientists giving keynotes at this conference, but there'll be quite a few young, relatively early career researchers giving keynotes, but doing amazing work, of course, and work that we felt should receive an appropriate platform and be able to represent the amazing initiatives that they want to take in the different areas.

1:26:13 So I would say that's that's one of the main changes that we have made. And yeah, apart from that, we're just hoping that everything else we put in place will keep people happy. Now, you know, I noticed you like typically when they've done the last ones, they usually have two days of conference, then Wednesday's sort of an off day to go sightseeing or do whatever. And then Monday, Friday, or Thursday, Friday to finish it off. You pretty much it's five days full on this year, correct? Yeah, we're trying to push everyone's limits. You will do that. Basically, it's just demand. I mean, you know, we are initial plan was to do exactly what you pointed out, you know, I probably have a graph schedule from a year ago, which had two parallel sessions Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, Friday, and already made last year we started hearing that, you know, numbers might be a little bit higher than, you know, the previous conference, so just be prepared.

1:27:19 So we thought, okay, worst case, we can just ditch the Wednesday and you know, that will add on another whole day of talks. And then, yeah, the abstract submission deadline came and as all of us do, everybody submitted at the very last minute. Yep. Very typical. Yeah. And I think that, that, you know, people don't really understand how challenging it is for organizers to plan for something where we have no clue how many people are going to come how many people are going to submit abstracts. You know, how large a whole do we need do we need a space for 500 people 1000 500 zero information until pretty much the last year of abstract submission deadline, when the numbers just like pretty much double from what we expected.

1:28:12 So then it was a lot of frantic last minute fundraising trying to figure out how we can maximize time in the schedule. So, of course, the day in the middle of the contract, and we managed to add on an additional hall as well for four of the five days of conference, which, you know, is is a significant cost because you can pay for the menu or your visual all of these, you know, requirements for a good conference. And yeah, it was challenging, but I think we managed to put it together. Yeah. Well, I know some of your team team members there and I know they're, they're pretty switched on people know what they're doing. So, so that's a good that's good for you. You had some people you got team there.

1:28:55 The one at least the ones I know are really good. I don't know all of them. But so, so with so you, so do you have any like special event evening events coming up we should be aware of. Yeah. So on the on Sunday, the third, the day before the conference will be having an opening reception, which is largely being supported by the services foundation. And, yeah, we, you know, that's just an informal event for everybody to get together, find old friends again and have a relaxed evening before one gets into the brunt of the conference from the following morning onwards. And then on the Tuesday evening, there'll be a student night as well. So that would be pretty much exclusively for students, but hopefully a few invited senior scientists to come and go up in so that students have opportunities to mingle and interact and engage with a few senior scientists and potentially some funders as well.

1:29:54 So that's one thing that we are still finalizing and putting together. And then of course, the big party at the end of it, the galagena on the Friday night so that everybody can reminisce on the about the whole conference and yeah, start to say goodbye. Yeah, then you're off the hook at that point, I think right after Friday night. Yeah, mostly. I mean, there's still quite a few workshops happening. Oh, that's right. Yeah, tell us a little bit about I know the weekend before the second and the third and then the ninth and 10th you have some workshops going on. Could you talk a little bit about those?

1:30:35 Yeah, so I think there are about 20 workshops that are taking place and again, probably one of the highest numbers of workshops that we had at one of the sharks international conferences. I think I think one of the things we yeah, actually something else that we perhaps get a bit differently to previous versions was having an open call just over a year ago now where we invited ideas for anybody who wanted to run workshops, anybody that wanted to run side events because we also having side events that take place at the lunch breaks and in the evenings during the week of the conference. And also for individuals to propose any sessions that they feel should be incorporated into the schedule of the conference.

1:31:21 And this has helped sort of create a slightly different version of sharks international where we had a lot more workshops being proposed than previously. And because of the high number of participants, it was, you know, I think all of the workshops are oversubscribed and challenging and are being challenged to make their short lists of participants. Yeah, I think it's going to be a busy weekend before and after the conference. So yeah, for those who are attending workshops before and after the conference and going through five days of conference.

1:32:02 I wish you all good luck. Yeah, you're not going to be at all of those. But I'll be I'll be running around probably sorting out a me and finding a chair for somebody who needs it. I'm sure there'll be also to further logistical hurdles that actually will have to overcome that short notice. Yeah, I was kind of surprised because I know like I I just I just for this thing because it's every four years of Sharks International just like showing up and I see people there that like yourself and I only see you guys that like usually Sharks International most most of the time. Maybe once in a while see in between that. So like I just want to run around catch up with people have a coffee or something to drink. And so I see I want to sit in a workshop for like eight hours and for four hours and like, you know, but that's just me.

1:32:50 So I just rather. Yeah, I mean, it provides again opportunities for people. You know, we're having. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to list any particular workshops and all of them sound pretty amazing to me. And if I had the time, I would actually participate in quite a few of them. But I think it's it's an amazing opportunity, particularly for early career researchers to participate in some of these. Yeah, no, I say don't get me wrong. There's some really there's some that are really interesting. And I thought about myself as like, no, I'm just gonna be blabbing the whole time with people. I just know how it's going to go. But but no, there are some really amazing workshops there. And and actually, the reason why we also having side events, you know, it just kind of provides a few more opportunities for people to engage on on different topics, but also to try and create a bit more policy meeting wide.

1:33:44 And I think, you know, one of our goals at this particular iteration of sharks international has been to ensure that both science and policy kind of mixes a bit more. And I think, you know, traditionally, there has always been a little bit of a gap, which causes challenges because, of course, a lot of the work that we do ideally, at least in my opinion, should translate into some sort of effective management that helps protect these species. Because, you know, as we know, sharks and rays are facing significant global threats. And if you don't do something about it now, as researchers, as scientists, we may not have some of these species to study in the near future.

1:34:25 So we really need to be thinking about that and understanding that a lot of this policy work that takes place is critical. And we have to figure out ways to be able to communicate with these policymakers to bring about more effective management. And in addition to sort of in addition to certain sessions that are, of course, quite policy focused at the conference, we wanted to have these side events that take place, which is a typical structure for policy meetings where, you know, you're in discussions the entire day, but also during your lunch breaks that there are events happening that you can quickly pop into and get get a bit more exposure to different ideas and personal gifts. So, yeah, it'll be it'll be full on, but I think we'll ensure that there are plenty of breaks in between the conference that allows for time for people to mingle and a lot of, you know, the particularly a lot of the side events taking place in the evening are meant to be informal mixes opportunities for people to engage.

1:35:25 So, you know, the moment sessions and people don't need to head off back to their hotels, but they can actually hang around a bit and and have hopefully a small snack and a drink and engage with colleagues. Yeah, that's great. That's great. So and so yet so the meetings, the workshops are going to be on the May 2 and 3 and on the 9th and 10th of May, just the weekend before and after and the actual conference will be from May 4 to 8 from Monday to Friday. And this will be up airing the show on the 4th of May and we'll also be running the number of the the keynote speakers we've had on and just so people know there's 10 keynote speakers and six of have been on the podcast before.

1:36:08 So we picked the four younger ones who have not been on there before. And if you haven't and they're going to be leading up to the conference, or you haven't. They are familiar with these people. You definitely want to catch these podcasts. Oh, they're leaders of the day. That's for sure. Definitely. Yeah. Future leaders. Yeah. And we'll be running the it will be running them all during this week here as well. Trying to promote them. So we'll hopefully be able to get it out there and get to know some of these young people out there. And if you know some of the other people like Guy Stevens and Sarah Fowler have been around for a while. Just go up and say hi to them. They've been on the podcast a few times before. And anyway, Daniel is really nice. I know. Before we do that, I have a question. Sure. There's a lot of people who listen to the podcast that may or may not be going to the conference.

1:36:55 It may or may not be their first time. Obviously, it's going to be a lot of people's first time just because the growth of it. What would you recommend? We always ask like at the end of the podcast each episode, like what would you recommend for people to get into the into sort of like, show them what they want to do. Sort of like shark conservation, shark science. But for this one, I would love to ask you, like, what would you recommend people do when they come to conferences? Like, you know, obviously we want a lot of interaction with different people. But, you know, that's that's a tough thing to do for a lot of people. You know, either they're introverted or they're a little shy when they when they go up to people. Some of these people like Dave and stuff have been in the game for a long time. People know who they are. They've even listened on the podcast. They may they may not feel comfortable going up to someone of his stature. Obviously, Dave's a really laid back guy. So I recommend anybody do that.

1:37:41 But what would you recommend for people when they come to a conference and how would you expect them to interact? Or what would you hope that they get out of the conference? That's a great question, actually. And what I would say, I mean, first of all, to those who are giving presentations, you know, it's you have a very limited time to give a presentation, whether it's a speak talk or a talk or even the poster that you will be, you know, standing in front of and giving a presentation to all those that come by. Actually, the post has had a slightly larger advantage because you have a lot more time to actually engage with individuals than a speed or a guilt talk.

1:38:22 But what I would suggest is keep things simple because we, you know, even though we are all, of course, familiar with sharks and rays, we work in very niche areas. And I think trying to keep your presentations as general and as simple as possible is always quite beneficial. I find because it allows a lot more people to engage and to understand what you're saying. And this then leads to what I find the most important part of a conference, which is the networking and the engaging that wonders on the on the sidelines of these meetings. And this is important, whether you're giving a presentation, a poster or you just can observe at the conference. It's finding, you know, making new friends, building new networks, establishing these potential collaborations.

1:39:16 That is that is what's most important for these conferences. And this is why, you know, we were quite insistent on ensuring that this remains an in-person conference. There are lots of moves lately to try and push for virtual opportunities and all. And while we recognize the importance of virtual attendance at such meetings, you're really losing a lot of the soul of the intention of these conferences, which is to engage with people on the sidelines of the actual talks. And, you know, with respect to what you were saying, it can be intimidating speaking to senior scientists and I mean, researchers who have been around for a very long time, they've included of course.

1:40:02 But in my experience so far, everybody has been incredibly nice, patient and happy to talk. And I think that's one of the amazing things. And and it's something that is quite different to, I would say, a lot more traditional cultures that we have, particularly in Asia and the educational sector, where there is quite a lot of separation between you as a student or early career researcher and somebody who's quite senior in the field. I feel that kind of evaporates to some extent at conferences like Google, just like you are. And honestly, in my experience, I've never had a senior scientist, you know, refuse to talk to me. They've always been extremely open and patient. And of course, you know, really appreciative to all of those that make time to go around and speak with everybody. But yeah, don't be scared. And you're not alone if you're feeling intimidated. Everybody does at some point or another.

1:41:18 Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, great. Well, Daniel, thanks a lot for coming on and sharing this and we hope everybody gets a chance to check it out. I know most people won't be able to make it there, but you are going to have quite a quite a quite a crowd there, though. And but you can follow on. Check out this episode and the other episodes from the Beyond Jaws podcast for Sharks International. And Daniel, thanks very much for staying up late because I know the time zone. Quite a bit different from California to Sri Lanka. So appreciate it. And I guess I'll be seeing you in about a month or so or a few weeks, actually. And I'll definitely look forward to catching up in person with you. Thanks again. Yeah, I look forward to look forward to seeing you again and to everybody else who's coming to their conference. And thank you so much for having me on here again. It's a pleasure as always. And yeah, look forward to another time in the future, hopefully.

1:42:15 Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. We'll definitely have you back on. Well, maybe get the debrief after the conference to see how everything went after you relax for a bit. And we'll just. Yeah. Thank you so much, Daniel. We appreciate it. All right. Thank you, Daniel, for joining us here on the Beyond Jaws podcast. It was great to be able to talk to you about Sharks International. Love the advice at the end, Dave, you know, talking about what to do, what to expect. A lot of me first timers to Sharks International. Maybe first timers students in students ways or even other professionals who are going to a conference for the first time in this magnitude, just because it's easier to get to. And we talked a little bit about access before we put the interview with Daniel. Daniel mentioned a lot about access with countries who never really had access to go to these types of conferences. Almost 800 people to go to go to this conference, which is absolutely phenomenal. So, you know, like, what are your thoughts for you, Dave? Like, going back to your stage, you know, like, what are your thoughts on the student days, you know, like, and young professional days going to conferences?

1:43:19 What would you recommend people do when you when you when they get there and how to like sort of interact so they get the full experience of a conference like this? I would I was I was real fortunate when I started going. My professor for my master's Greg Caille. He was terrific at this introducing you to people, like established people. You know, the students you're going to meet other students there. That's not a big thing. And I was. Yeah. And I always tell students, like if you're especially if you're looking for a graduate program or something, go to one of these conferences, like especially like Sharks International, if you're going to do that or whether it's an American allows a rank society or Oceania, Condry, the end or a because literally like most everybody's there.

1:43:59 You'd want to meet in the field. Right. And and it is it Daniel said during the interview is like most everybody's pretty, you know, pretty laid back, pretty chilled. You know, you can go up and introduce yourself and talk with them. And you'll find most people are very approachable. Yeah. And, you know, I know he's you know, he's going to try it. I know Dan was trying to organize a student is going to have a student night there and try and have some professionals go there. But but yeah, just go up and introduce yourself to people. And, you know, we see someone there, whether it's me or some of the other people there were just, you know, or just it's a good it's a good it's a good environment to network and to get to know people there. Absolutely. You know, whether whether you're looking for a graduate program or whether you just want to get to meet people. I remember when I started out, that was, you know, my first few conferences when I just a young person, you know, some of the conference, I said somebody will have to tell you a story about the first White Shark conference they had in California in 1983 that they ended up having a I'm going off on a tangent here, but I just got to show.

1:44:58 They ended up some for some reason. I was just like just literally starting out. We ended up having this party in my hotel room and had all the all the big names in the field at the time. Leonard Campagno, Jack Casey, Frank Carey. I mean, just West. I mean, just goes on and on the whole is Shelly Apple. And anyway, that night turned out like I ended up talking with Leonard Capagno a lot that night and I ended up becoming his PhD student a few years later when I'd finished. Right. But also Lisa Tansen, who were cohorts were classmates at Moss Landing. She got to know Jack Casey and West Pratt and that led to her PhD. So two of us there ended up going on to PhD programs from a party in my hotel room at a conference. And so it not that I'm advocating, you need to have a conference, you have a party at your in your place. But if you're out at a more social event and stuff, go up and talk to people. You just never know. Things could lead to later in your career.

1:46:00 Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's that's the big thing. The one thing that I I go to and you and I have kind of the same philosophy when we go there, you go there one to look to meet people. That's our first priority, right? Is to go there, interact with people, some old friends, old colleagues, some new, you know, meet new people. The one I always tell younger people is to say, hey, when you go there, you know, the first thing you do when you meet somebody, you say hi, you do, you got to do your introductions. You have to have your elevator pitch. If you're a student, I'm a student studying such and such, or I'm an undergraduate student and I'm looking to do graduate work. I'm here to look at the, you know, the different things. Come up, whatever you decide, come up with that pitch, practice it over and over again, because you're going to be saying it over and over again.

1:46:42 I just recently went to a conference every time I shook someone's hand, it was really just like the first thing we would do. They would tell me about themselves. I would tell, I would tell them about myself. And then we would just kind of be like, oh, that's cool. Like, what do you do? And then you start asking questions based off of that. It's almost like an interview. You're interviewing them. They're interviewing you and you get to know each other. It's a very easy interaction once you get comfortable with it. But the big thing is, is to practice that elevator pitch every morning before you go in. You'll be saying it so many times by the end of the first day. That, you know, it's going to become natural to you. And the first couple of times might feel a little wonky and a little unnatural, a little out of your comfort zone. But that'll build. And I always say, like one of my big things that I love to do, Dave, and I don't know if they'll have it here, but lunchtime or dinner time or breakfast time. If there's tables where people are sitting down, find an empty seat, sit down beside somebody you don't know and just start like talking about, oh, hi, how are you?

1:47:39 Where are you from? Like, this is going to be a place where people are going to go, and I'm going to come from all around the world. Where are you from? My name is so and so I'm from Canada or my name is Dave. Like I'm from the US or wherever. And that just based off of you don't even have to talk shop. Just talk about what was your travel? You know, where are you staying? Like, you know, all that kind of stuff just to be like, what, how do you like? Isn't this a great place? Like, isn't it like I went to the beach yesterday? Like, that's how people connect. And I feel like that's how not only like professional relationships are done, but even like the friendships that come from that is you just get to know people at the conferences. And it doesn't have to be a huge interaction, right? And even a lot of you know, you get to know like, I know myself, like I got to know a lot of the students I got to know when I when I was a student, you know, they've turned into like lifelong, you know, collaborations and friendships, you know, we've had a lot of people on there, you know, just like people like come to mind, like, you know, there's Greg scuml or Gavin Naylor, Chris Lowe, I mean, we're all grad students at the same time. And we've all kind of like, gone along in our careers now and stuff. And so it's interesting, people you can meet early in your career as a student, a lot of times those are relationships you'll develop throughout your career, you know, guys, if they assume any of you all stay in the field, your careers are kind of you can see where each other are going in your career, which is also kind of a cool thing, especially when you get later in life, you know, like where I am now, I look back on some of these people and think about, Oh, yeah, I remember back meeting so and so at this time, or that conference or whatever. And it's just, it's kind of neat. And then of course, some meet some of the other students to

1:49:10 you might meet somebody who's in so and so. But I would encourage you to trad your gotta I made that connection. And I know like for myself, usually, you know, once you've kind of got a name and a face, you know, it's usually a little easier to remember if you happen to follow up with them at a later date for some reason or other.

1:49:52 So yeah, I can't stress that enough. Yeah. So, you know, this is just some advice that we offer. And of course, you know, as you go to these conferences, you feel what's comfortable to you. Sometimes what I would suggest, go a little outside your comfort zone and start to, you know, reach out to people, start to talk to people. Cause you've traveled all that way. Might as well make it worthwhile. I know it's easier for me. I'm an extrovert. So it makes it a little easier. Dave, you know many of the people in the field. So it makes it easier. So we know we understand how difficult it can be to do that, but try you'll, you'll, you'll benefit in the end and you'll, you'll patch stuff in the back afterwards. Yeah. Cause it's, it'll be, it'll be worthwhile in the end. So try and do that. Enjoy meeting the people, enjoy the keynotes, enjoy the presentations, soak it all up and enjoy.

1:50:38 And we'd love to hear from you. If you went to sharks international, if you're at sharks international, let us know, you know how you feel. Let us know what your experience is like. We would love to hear from you, Dave. People want to get ahold of you. How would they do so? Even if they're listening to this first day and they want to go and see you and meet you. How would they get ahold of you? Well, if I'm at the conference, just look around at some social time or whatever. I know, I know enough people there. You can ask somebody that'll say, oh yeah, I know Dave. So I'll be, I'll be, I'll be around the conference the whole week. So I'll be pretty easy. I'm should be pretty easy to find, but you can, you can, you can find me on Instagram. I'm on Instagram at the last shark guy.

1:51:19 Also YouTube channel, lost shark guy. Check out our latest episode on searching for lost sharks on the river shark story, which is now posted. And yeah, any of those, those are the best ways to get ahold of me. Perfect. And if you want to get ahold of us together, it's beyond at beyond Jaws pod on Instagram. Thank you for joining us. Enjoy the conference. And we'd love to hear from you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. Enjoy the conference. And we'd love to hear from you from Dave and I. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Of course, Daniel, thank you, Daniel, for all the work you've done for the conference and for coming on during your busy schedule. We want to thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of the Beyond Jaws podcast. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.