Interstellar: Time Dilation Explained | S01E10

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All right, everybody, Welcome back
to the podcast where we discuss the plausibility

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of sci fi concepts with experts.
Today we're exploring to science behind time dilations

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near black holes in my favorite movie
of all time, Interstellar. Joining us

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is Athena aka astro Athens, who
is an astronomer and science communicator using YouTube

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and social media to make astronomy more
accessible and fun for everyone. Stay with

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us to the end when Athena tackles
our burning question, is time dilation portrayed

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on Miller's planet scientifically accurate? Without
further ado, let's get ready for another

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mind blowing episode of reality Chat fall
Thanks prepared for hypercrime activating activity does engage

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director of relay your late for lightspeedlights
meat it's too slow? All right,

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Reality Chat, Hey silliens, all
f Now we have all seen Interstellar,

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But did you know that director Christopher
Nolan used some original clips from a twenty

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twelve documentary by Ken Burns called The
Dust Bowl. These were the interviews that

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were played at the beginning scenes of
the movie that ended up being on the

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space station later on in the movie. And I think that this is just

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such a beautiful example of how the
lines between science fiction and science fact are

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beginning to blur. So that is
my fun movie fact of the day.

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And now I want to ask a
fina. I want to hear some of

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your initial thoughts of this movie.
I know we're both total science nuts and

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space nuts, So tell me what
you think about Interstellar. I want to

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hear your reactions the first time you
saw and just how you fell about the

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movie. Now. I mean,
like every space third, I'm obsessed with

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the movie. I've watched it probably
i'd say five times. I wanted to

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say ten, but not ten just
yet. I've probably watched about five times.

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And my first time watching it was
actually like a really funny experience.

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I didn't tend to actually see the
movie. I was actually with the friends

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of mine and we were watching Sherlock
Holmes and we just got so bored during

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the movie that we left the theater
and went to go see another movie,

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and we stumbled upon a distellar and
were mine blowed. I mean, I

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just like had an existential crisis.
I was like, I don't remember how

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there was I was definitely like late
teens, I think early twenties, and

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was just blown away. And we
walked in maybe like thirty minutes into the

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movie, but so right around the
time they launch, it was gosh,

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yeah, what what part was that? I mean it was there was still

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they were still within the cornfield.
There were definitely I think still in the

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cornfield. At this point, Murphy
had just left school, and I think

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the weird gravitation effects started happening with
the sand in the bedroom, and I

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was like, whoa, what did
we just walk in on? And yet

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that movie just moved me, I
mean like spoke to my soul from the

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get go. But every time I
rewatch it now, I feel like I'm

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learning something new or I'm seeing something
new that I hadn't noticed before. So

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watching it with fresh eyes is just
like always so great. It's it's always

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the best, the best thing.
But other other I guess reactions about it.

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I think what got me so excited
about it was really just like the

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animations and the visuals of like being
able to see these concepts that I had

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like watched lectures on, that I
had learned about in class, things that

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I've studied and read on, and
to see it actually visualized in a movie

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was just like so incredible. Not
to like really give any spoilers to anyone

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who hasn't watched it, so I'll
kind of go around the bush for this

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one. But just like you know, near the the ends, there's just

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a weird things sort of happening with
the way that the ground basically is.

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I guess I'll just sort of say
that without actually giving away too much.

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And it just kind of blew my
mind to be able to picture reality in

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this very curved way, in a
very different way than what we were used

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to. I totally agree. I
totally agree. I mean it like broke

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my brain. Yeah, now that
I've seen it so many times after having

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that first experience of it kind of
being accidental, I still am just blown

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away by some of the animations that
are in the movie, specifically towards the

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end when they're at Cooper's station and
the O'Neill cylinder, which is that you

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know, cylinder bowl shaped space station
that's we're obtaining to create artificial gravity.

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It was so cool to just see
this because I've seen like, you know,

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pretty low quality illustrations done of it, but never actually animated in the

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way like that the movie did to
really make it look real. It felt

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like I was actually there. It
felt like it was real. So that

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was that was so cool. That's
probably one of my my favorite parts of

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the movie. Honestly. Yeah,
it truly is amaz and it's like,

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again, this is why I love
doing this podcast, because it's like,

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how close are we to those futures? And maybe that'll be another episode we

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do down the road. I can
interview an engineer and just talk about how

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close we are to a space station
like that, but you are here to

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talk about something a little bit more
mysterious, a little bit more terrifying.

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Black holes. We know they exist, so that par is a science fact,

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but nobody truly knows what a black
hole is. And I guess can

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you just explain to us what a
black hole is with maybe a junior high

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level explanation. Yeah, black holes
definitely are still such a mysionary. That

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is totally true. I think that
what's been fascinating is that we've been able

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to image them, or at least
the accretion discs in the event horizon of

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a black culture. We'll get it
to all that it but what really kind

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of blows me away is that a
black hole forms through the death of a

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star, and there are other black
holes that may have formed other ways,

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such as two black holes colliding and
making a man sized black hole. Yeah

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yeah, and this actually was confirmed
recently. There actually was an observation of

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this. This is known as an
intermediate black hole. And that's like a

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medium sized black holes when two smaller
black holes collide and they form into one,

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which I think is actually kind of
beautiful to sort of think about.

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But with smaller yeah, but smaller
black holes like stellar mass black holes.

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They're called stellar mass because it's comes
from a star that had died and basically

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starred. Like our son, they
have this nice balance, this equilibrium of

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outward force and inward force, and
so it kind of stays at it's its

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nice shape, the dute of two
different forces, basically our gravity, that's

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the inward force pulling in and then
radiation or energy caused by nuclear fusion,

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which is from its core. It's
fusing atoms together, generating a bunch of

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energy and it's pushing outward. But
what happens with some stars yeah yeah,

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yeah, So like our son,
it has this nice balance between these two

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so it's like at equilibrium, and
so it's able to stay pretty stable,

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generate enough heat for us to survive
here on Earth and be nice and warm,

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get a stun tan. But with
certain stars that are massive enough,

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really really big. I mean,
like imagine maybe ten of our sons combined

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together, all their masks, they're
able to fuse bigger atoms, heavier elements

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such as iron. But when it
gets up to fusing ironed atoms, it

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actually can't fuse anything beyond that atom. And what happens is it starts to

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gain a lot of mass. It's
gaining a lot of mass of iron elements,

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iron atoms, and so it's getting
bigger and bigger. But what's happening

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is as it gets more massive,
it's gravity is getting even stronger. But

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since it can no longer fuse any
more elements in its core, then it's

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not having that outward force. It's
only having the inward force, which is

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gravity. So now we're not balanced
anymore. What happens is it reaches a

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point of critical mass and it collapses
into a black hole. So that seems

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I can never I have never understood
actually how that worked. Like I knew

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about the black hole. I've seen
the diagrams on Instagram and like the memes

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where it shows like the gravity of
a black hole, but it's just like

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a joke for like my depression,
and it's like, so I always knew

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about the gravity part, but I
never actually realized that there was the opposing

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force. So that is new information
to me, and that's super interesting.

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And also I think it's really like
it's crazy how you said, like our

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sun has that on like a miniature
scale. So it's like every single sun

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is already sort of prepped to become
a black hole one day, possibly and

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not necessarily, Like our sun won't
become a black hole, and it has

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to do with its size that it's
at right now. Most stars that will

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become black holes tend to be already
much more massive. Ours is a pretty

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medium size star, and actually when
it dies, it's going to grow into

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a red giant star. But what's
going to happen is it's going to start

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to cool down as it starts to
get bigger, and it's instead of it

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getting bigger and collapsing, it's actually
going to start to shed its outer layers,

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like how an onion shuck you can
peel out like the different layers of

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an onion. That's kind of what's
going to happen with our Sun when it

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starts to expand, and it's going
to start to lose a lot of its

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outer layers, all its elements,
and it's going to puff out into something

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called the planetary nebula. And so
it's going to be really big, about

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a thousand light years of light,
So it's gonna span far beyond our solar

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system when it becomes a nebula.
But what's beautiful about this is that it

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can it's like a recycling process.
Is like all of these you know,

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layers and elements that it, you
know, starts to release are seeds for

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new star life, and so new
baby stars can start to form from these

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elements that came from the dead stars, such as when our sun dies.

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So pretty pretty cute thing there.
That is cute because I've always seen,

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like I always loved Horsehead Nebula for
whatever reason. I was a horse girl

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growing up, so like Horsehead Nebula
and I have a special connection. And

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I so I didn't realize that.
I thought nebulas came before stars. But

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it sounds like it's a cycle,
Like it's like it's like Nebula star Nebula.

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Yes, exactly, It's kind of
like we well keep first the chicken

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of the egg because you're like,
all the nebula does come before the star,

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but then before that was also a
star. So that's that's what brings

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us all the way to the Big
Bang and trying to rewind time to see

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what really started to deform first,
which actually were right now. The theory

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is that it was small particles,
quantum particles bigger than that atoms, and

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then really really more like molecules started
to form. Those started to collide together,

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and then there was like this constant
kind of exploding and collapsing. Apparently

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that was uh that right now,
this is what I understand is what was

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happening at this time. I just
like to imagine there's a lot of collapsing

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and exploding that was happening at the
early universe, and there was a lot

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of heat, a lot of elements, new elements were being born, and

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from that, new stars were being
born, and then stars were colliding,

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forming bigger things and eventually yeah,
gas clouds, collisions of stars, nebulae

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potentially no, probably not planets yet, but yeah, just just a lot,

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a lot of a lot of hot
and dense stuff happened. Yeah,

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yeah, and and all of the
well, and it's like like there's like

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all the matter and then all of
the different pieces that came together as well.

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Like like like what I'm kind of
like going towards now is it's like,

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Okay, when did gravity show up? When did time show up?

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When did forces show up? Like
just like our natural forces? And that

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I think fascinates me a little bit
because it sounds like time and gravity go

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hand in hand. Yes, yes, definitely, And I think all the

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questions that you just asked when sort
of they're they're kind of answered through like

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the big Bank theories. It's right
now, it stands that time started when

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the Big Bang happens. That gravity
also started when the Big Bang happened.

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That things started to expand, things
started to form, and that's how we

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under stand time, that's how we
process time. And so if you really

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were to sort of date back according
to how long things live in the universe,

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it would show that, well,
things first started to form around the

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thirteen point eight billion years ago.
It's just the current estimate. So it's

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not that yeah, all those things
actually happened at a critical point of existence.

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But the bigger question is, like, well, was there something before

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that? Because as we just talked
about with the nebula and the stars or

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nebulae plural nebulas. Either way,
there's a Nebula star, Nebula star,

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Nebula star. Was it universe no
universe, universe no universe or was it

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like a collapse like big crunch and
that big bang, big crunch, big

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bang, big crunch, big Bag's
that's what really keeps me up. Oh

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yeah, I absolutely, Like I
hate, like I just got goosebumps everywhere

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right now because whenever you think about
time, you were like, yeah,

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but what was before that? It's
just like humans can not comprehend, like

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our minds cannot comprehend outside of time. Like I actually remember as a child

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the first time, I was just
like laying on my bed one day like

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reading horsebooks, and then I was
like time and I had this like total

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little crisis at seven years old,
and I was like trying to comprehend it,

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and I just remember I was like
crying. I was like my head

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hurts. It's just so hard to
think about an infinity and yeah, yeah

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it is. There's a proposal not
to digress too much by Hawking has to

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do a lot with black hole.
Stephen Hawking it's no longer with us today,

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but he was working out a proposal
right before it passed away called the

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no boundary proposal, And this really
blows me away. I've made a couple

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of YouTube videos on it, just
truly trying to understand it. The first

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time I heard about it was at
a lecture during the World Science Festival in

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New York, and it's one of
there's a bunch, it's like a week

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of awesome lectures from a bunch of
different quantum physicists and astrophysicists as well,

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And this was the first time I
heard about the no battery proposal, which

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basically says that rather than there being
a point of non existence that then responded

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into existence, that there actually always
was some form of infinite existence, That

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there was something that had already like
some form of matter, some form of

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space, that may have existed before
our concept of time did, and that

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a time clock eventually began, and
then once that began, it may have

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caused the sort of effect of expansion
and the universe to grow into what it

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is today. And that's my basic
understanding. The proposal is just so much

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more dense than than what I just
said. But I have not doing research

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with the Stephen Hawking at the moment
so well. And that's just the thing

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is, it's like, yeah,
like in Einstein and a Hawking, like,

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minds like that are few and far
between, and it's like, you

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know, us common folk, it's
very hard for us to come things like

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that. Like I'm not saying that
like any of us are dumb. I'm

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saying we're all really really smart.
But those concepts are just that challenging to

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wrap our brains around. And I
don't think the human mind is entirely equipped

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to think about things that are completely
outside of our existence, and trying to

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understand time and time space is I
think one of those things. I think

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time is one of the hardest things
for humans to comprehend because it's totally untangible

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and we exist within it, like
we exist within time more than anything else,

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like any other element, sorry,
not element, but like law.

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We're almost like learning how to control
it. In some ways. It's like

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we're flirting with controlling gravity, We're
flirting with controlling different things. But it's

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like time is our absolute master and
we cannot change that yet. But yeah,

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but there are theories out there,
and especially like what's portrayed in Interstellar

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when they land on Miller's planet,
there's the whole fiasco that happens and they

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go down there and they're like,
hey, one minute down there's what was

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it seven years up here? Something
like something like that. I actually can't

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remember. Sorry, listeners, Yes, your CoRIS can correct me in the

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comments. And if you guys do
have the correct answer to that, please

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drop a comment let me know.
And while we're at that, if you

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guys are enjoying this conversation, please
like, listen, subscribe, share.

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This is a new podcast and the
only way that YouTube, Spotify, Apple

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00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.720
and any of those other platforms or
going to discover us is if you guys

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like and share. So that's my
two second pitch. Let's jump back into

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Miller's planet. So they go down
to this planet and there's the whole you

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know issue with she, you know, she wanted to go get the research,

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and then they had the issue with
the waves. And then when they

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go back up it had been so
much time that had passed, and I

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I think that that part of the
movie. My husband absolutely hated it,

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like he was like, why are
you watching this movie. It's awful.

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I'm like, but this is the
good stuff, Like, this is the

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deep exexstential, like cosmic horror that
I just live for. So can we

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just say, can we talk a
little bit about how time works around gravity

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and its connection? And I also
like, if there was anything you were

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getting to please finish your thoughts on
those two. But I'm just so curious

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about time's interaction with gravity. Yeah, I mean that's such a big thing

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to unpack. I mean the movie, I think that's such a great job

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of kind of I would say,
even just conveying the emotional aspect of it

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and to sort of tie just a
little bit back to how you're saying,

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like the way that our minds were
compared to say, like eindest and hawking

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is. I think it's two main
components, and one is like extreme open

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mindedness, where I think we tend
to really restrict ourselves because of this confinement

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of time and understanding that. But
if we can remove that concept of time

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for just a moment, or at
least pretend two, then we might be

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able to have a bit more insight
into how these things are really happening,

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how these things are existing how Hawking
and Eypline had been able to understand this,

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And I think that the main tools
for that is one mathematics. That

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is, I mean, theoretical physics
is based in mathematics, like very very

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heavily, And that's how I would
say Hawking and Eyesline had been able to

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really put this to language. A
lot of these discoveries, a lot of

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these theories and realizations. I mean, Einstein predicted black holes before the first

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black hole was ever discovered. He
wrote his paper on special relativity in nineteen

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oh five, then published it with
gravity on general relativity in nineteen fifteen,

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and also with the help of mathematics. And just one more small bit I

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would say is also artificial intelligence might
be able to really help give us that

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bit of insight where we are pretty
limited by our sort of humanness that I

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almost wonder if sort of this,
this, this, this other way of

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thinking, this, the way that
artificial intelligence works might be able to play

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a role with mathematics to actually help
break this all down into a language that

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US humans can understand. So that's
something that I think would be really interesting

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down the road, if that even
makes any sense. What you know that

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us no Actually I understand what you
said completely because it's like I'm like playing

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around with things like mid Journey and
chat GPT and it's you know, I

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will always say that the human mind
is the most incredible thing in existence.

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Like I I'm a fan of humans, but I also love the tools that

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we have invented that can produce creative
answers that we can't quite comprehend real to

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check any science of fiction. You're
so, you're you're student, you're studying

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all of this. Is there any
conversation in the astronomy or astrophysics world about

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specific AI that they might be using
to discover some of these answers? Like,

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I don't think it's CHATGVT, gosh. You know, there definitely are

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ways that I can play a really
important role, and I'm just thinking one

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back to my research I did first
as an undergraduate at the Hayden Planetarium in

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New York, and it was I
remember the first time I learned how to

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code a Python language. I firs
started learning about Python language, and I

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had to basically sift through so much
data that came in through the Hubble Space

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telescope. I was studying protoplanetary discs
at the time, and just thinking about

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how that program had to run,
I had to go back update it constantly.

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Where if you used artificial intelligence as
a tool, just sort of write

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a command, say hey, stip
through all this data, find these parameters,

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you know, so much information could
be gathered within a fraction of the

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time that it would have taken in
prior ways of studying the cosmos, in

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prior ways of sifting through data basically, And so there's definitely ways I bet

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today that astrophysicists are using artificial intelligence
to help bring themselves closer to information about

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the cosmos. I definitely don't doubt
it. I can't really name a few

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up the top of my head that
I exactly know of, but that's just

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an example that I personally had experience
with and how I imagine that AI could

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definitely play a good role. So
I bet, I bet that there's ways.

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I did just see I gotta double
check this, but I saw scrolling

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on Instagram and saw some kind of
posts about AI discovering some kind of I

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think it was a supernova explosion that
hadn't been detected yet by astronomers. I'm

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curious. I'm not unconfirmed if you
guys confirmed it, you know, comment

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it below. I'll double check it. I did come across that Instagram,

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just haven't had a moment to look
into it just yet saw it this morning.

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But if that's true, that would
be pretty awesome. I'd say that

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is cool. That is cool.
Yeah, so yeah, the AI is

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awesome. So so let's get back
to Yes, the relationship between time and

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gravity, because that's that's one It's
like I feel like I have like probably

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like a second grader's understanding of it, but uh, it's it's still hard

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to wrap my head around. Can
you explain that more to me and just

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the average listener, because that's your
that's your jam girl. Yeah. Yeah,

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so I guess kind of going backwards
too, or I'm talking about like

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unpacking how the the the movie really
started to kind of break down time delation.

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What I was gonna say back then
was just that I think it really

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touched on an emotional part of the
human experience during that movie, which was

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when you mentioned Heidi already seeing the
age that Robley went through, which was

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that one astronaut who stayed on this
on the Space Shuttle or space station.

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I think it was just the spaceship
as the other two went down to Miller's

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planet and they came back and he
was just so much older. And so

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that was Number one. Kind of
hit the tone of what time daily should

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can feel like as an experience,
what it looks like, how we process

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it, but not what actually is
happening. So the way I like to

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think about it. And I did
see this in a NASA doctav post.

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There's a blog post basically saying I'm
going to actually just read the quote real

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quick and said time can change.
Time passes slower as you're approaching a body

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of mass in space, and so
body of masses and space, as we

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mentioned before, they have a gravitational
effect on things around them. Thinking about

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how the Moon is orbiting around Earth. Because the Earth is bigger than the

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Moon, the Earth has a lot
of gravitational effect on the Moon. It's

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slightly curving space time and it's pulling
the Moon in towards us. If you've

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ever seen sort of an example of
someone stretching a fabric like a pair of

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leggings or something like that, and
you put a heavy object in the middle,

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I mean we're talking about weight here. We're on Earth, so we

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have the acceleration due to gravity.
Here, I'll break all that down just

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the moment. But and you put
a few marbles on that fabric, the

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marbles are going to get pulled in
towards that, you know, more massive

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object. That's kind of a good
way to sort of think about the concept

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of general relativity is that a body
of mass and space will quite literally cause

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the fabric of space time to warp. And what that is again just meaning

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is it has a gravitational effect on
things around it, and it's attracting them

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towards it. So think about how
the Sun has these eight planets, these

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eight main bodies spinning around it,
orbitting around it. And that's because the

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Sun has such a large mass comparative
to the planets that it has a very

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strong gravitational effect on us. Now
specifically not using the word, we can

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definitely use the workforce, but it
really is kind of affecting the other planets,

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pulling them in towards it, towards
the Sun and we're spinning around it.

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But time dilation is this concept that
as you are around different bodies of

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mass in space, time is gonna
be a little different comparative to wherever you're

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maybe from. So, for from
Earth, we're used to time moving at

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a certain pace. Here on Earth, for us, we live for one

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hundred years. But if you're on
say another planet, or you're around a

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black hole, time is going to
be a lot different compared to here on

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Earth. And a pretty i guess, sort of small example I'd like to

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mention is sort of thinking about how
long does it take you to drive to

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your local grocery store. So if
you are moving probably an average of like

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maybe thirty five miles per hour,
that's a pretty common speed limit for sort

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of like residential roads. You're moving
thirty five miles per hour, and you're

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going to hit a few stoplights,
it might take you maybe five minutes to

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get to the grocery store. What
if you limited yourself to only driving five

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miles per hour, you're going to
be moving a lot slower, and so

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it's going to probably take you closer
to maybe like fifteen to twenty minutes to

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get to that grocery store. And
so what happens here is, say now

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you're close to a black hole.
To you, you're perceiving time as moving

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slower. But for all your friends
back on Earth, you're actually moving much

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faster than your friends back on Earth. That's my kind of general understanding of

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a pod dilation is working. There's
definitely more we can get it. We

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can get into this. I did
write a few more out so I've got

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a few more points to start of
mention here. But that's that's a general

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idea to start with to try and
digest, I guess, and that does

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make a lot of sense to me, so because it's like, it seems

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like in theory we can move forward
in time because if somebody's on a planet

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where time is sped up like Miller's
planet, and somebody else is away from

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that gravitational influence, the ones who
are on that planet are essentially moving faster.

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They're moving at a faster speed,
and then when they rejoin they're friends

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outside of that time influence. They've
essentially traveled through time. But we could

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not, let's say, hypothetically travel
backwards through time. Is that correct?

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Yeah? I mean, no one's
done it, and I think even theoretically

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would not be possible because there's not
a point of slowing time down so much

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where you can actually reverse it from
I think as much information is out there

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when it comes to time dilation,
comes to really comparing two different clocks,

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It comes to comparing one clock in
one location at another clock in another location

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and seeing if one of them is
going to be fastened than the other,

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versus actually rewinding your very own existence
to a point where you can go backwards.

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But there is one more thing I
did want to mention, which is

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it's a little bit of a not
a diagram. It's a small demo and

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Hidi, well, I'm not sure
you'll be able to necessarily see it,

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but i'll explain it for also our
listeners. Here, I'm holding up my

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mousepad and I marked two points on
my mousepad with two posts that notes.

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One of them is the letter A, one is the letter B. And

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we're going to turn this into a
black hole. But what we're going to

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do first is we're going to take
our ruler and I'm going to just go

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ahead and measure how many inches it's
going to take to get from one from

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point A to point B. So
from end to end, we're gonna say

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that's about nine inches, So nine
inches, and we are flat. This

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mousepad is totally flat. It's on
one straight plane. Based on new In's

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first law of motion, an object
is going to continue moving in a straight

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direction and a straight plane unless it's
been disturbed or touched by anything else.

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And so objects generally are going to
be moving untouched in one direction. Body

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motion stays in motion. So what's
happening now is with black holes. The

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gravity is so intense. I'm now
warping my mousepad and bending it to a

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point where A and B are nearly
touching. They are super close to one

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another. Now I take my ruler
and measure the distance between these two and

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they've now come to about four inches. So now it looks like the distance

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is gone from nine inches to four
inches. This is, again theoretically,

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what is happening within the worm,
within the black hole, excuse me,

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within the black hole. Time,
the very fabric of space is being warped.

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And since space and time are a
continuum, they have always been linked

402
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together those two words space and time. You can't meet your friends at a

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location without telling them what time you're
meeting them. You can't meet someone at

404
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a certain time without telling them which
locations to meet them at. Space and

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time have been continually interlaces with each
other, and so if we have a

406
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.400
body of masks large enough that's warping
the fabric of space time. You are

407
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:40.839
now shortening the amount of time that
it takes to travel from point A to

408
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.319
point B. So kind of like
what I mentioned earlier, if you're going

409
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:45.960
thirty five miles per hour, you're
gonna get there five minutes. If you're

410
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.000
going five miles per hour, you're
gonna probably get there in fifteen twenty minutes.

411
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:53.039
It's going to take you a longer
time. So this is another way

412
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:57.039
I like to sort of conceptualize what's
happening when it comes to time dilation,

413
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:01.119
what's happening when it comes to black
holes. Most of the understanding of black

414
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:06.640
holes is that their mass, and
we'll get into a few masses like the

415
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:10.680
black hole at the center of our
galaxy, their mass is so so big

416
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:15.880
compared to Earth, so big compared
to the Sun, that for us small

417
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:27.279
humans, things are going to be
extremely strong gravitationally and extremely warped space time

418
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:31.319
wines, and that time is just
going to feel so different compared to here

419
00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:37.160
on Earth. And this is where
again that theory comes in around time dilation

420
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:42.599
when it comes to black holes,
when it comes to big bodies of mass

421
00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:45.960
in space versus say, you know, being here on Earth, which even

422
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:51.680
small small I think there's been small
percentages measured of time dilation happening even here

423
00:32:51.759 --> 00:32:55.039
on Earth close to the ground versus
higher up elevated away from the grounds.

424
00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:00.160
And I don't have all that too. Yes, yeah, I've seen the

425
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:07.440
diagrams, you know, valleys versus
mountains. There's it's barely negligible, but

426
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:14.440
there's decimal points of differences of gravity's
influence. So it's like maybe maybe down

427
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:22.240
the road researchers and longevity can figure
out optimal elevation points for longevity. Yeah,

428
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.920
right, right, Yeah, I
think I saw the percentage. I

429
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:29.160
believe, and and maybe if someone
can comment it below, but I think

430
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:34.400
I saw zero point zero four or
zero point zero zero four percent of a

431
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:39.000
difference of time dilation from the ground
up to a pretty high altitude. I

432
00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:43.400
don't exactly know what altitude was,
buffs looking something up before this, and

433
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:45.680
I did come across that number as
far as what's been measured here on Earth.

434
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:52.720
So that's again, you know,
not certain super easy to really comprehend,

435
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.200
but it has been measured it and
it does exist, so that's pretty

436
00:33:55.480 --> 00:34:00.440
pretty fascinating to really think about.
So, island time really is a thing?

437
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:07.519
It slows down thinking her onto something. I think Margarita's helped with that

438
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:12.559
too. Definitely. No, that
is super that is super interesting, and

439
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.800
you explain that in such a like
it's such an easy way that I actually

440
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:16.559
don't feel like I have a follow
up question. I'm like, oh,

441
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:21.880
yeah, that makes sense. I
understand, and I know that it's not

442
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.119
as simple as that, but they
do say that, you know, somebody

443
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:30.440
who truly understands a concept can make
it seem easy, and black holes in

444
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:35.559
time and space are some of the
most challenging concepts for us to think of.

445
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:38.199
So thank you so much for explaining
that to me and everybody else in

446
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:43.760
such a simple way for us to
digest. I'm I am kind of curious

447
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:49.119
though, because you have a lot
of experiences like an influencer and an educator,

448
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:52.039
and you work you work with a
lot of different people to help teach

449
00:34:52.159 --> 00:35:00.400
about astronomy and astrophysics theories. Is
the public's perception of black holes? Has

450
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:05.199
it been like affected by media or
are there any really big like myths or

451
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:10.320
misconceptions that you'd like to address,
Because I just think that Hollywood can do

452
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:21.639
such a great job of educating or
misinforming people about really everything. Yeah,

453
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:23.800
definitely, which is why I think
so many people applauded to Expeller, because

454
00:35:23.800 --> 00:35:28.639
they just did such a good job
of really making it like closely scientifically accurate,

455
00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.440
or at least as close to the
theories say currently. But I would

456
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.760
say the general consensus is a lot
of people are so curious about black holes.

457
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.960
It is like one of the hottest
topics I think on YouTube. It's

458
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:44.679
like it's such a fun topic to
talk about. I'm constantly getting questions about

459
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:49.559
it. I constantly have questions about
it also, And I think that there

460
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:52.800
are definitely a few a few myths
out there. One specifically that I was

461
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.360
pointed out this was pointed out to
me when I was in high school by

462
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:01.360
my first astronomy teacher, and it
was black holes don't suck and and it

463
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:05.400
was kind of also a joke because
it's like, cause they're awesome, but

464
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:08.800
it was more just that, like
it was more just that, like they're

465
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:15.119
not like pulling things in from space
per se. There's actually a point of

466
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:20.280
no return with black holes called the
vent horizon, and it's actually Once you

467
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:25.159
pass that, then you're like completely
gonna get pulled in by the true black

468
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:30.320
hole, the actual black hole that
is somewhere deep, deep within that dark

469
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:37.280
space. But if you're just outside
that event horizon, you're actually like good

470
00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.639
to go, Like you're fine,
You're apparently not going to get pulled in

471
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:45.840
because black holes are not they're not
a vacuum cleaner. They're not sucking things

472
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.760
in. There's not this you know. Yeah, so it's it's a little

473
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:53.400
bit different than kind of I think
this perception that you know, black holes

474
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:57.760
are strong, they're attracting things in. We're talking about gravity. And and

475
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.519
although this is true because of around
a black hole, there tends to be

476
00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:05.679
a lot of accumulated matter and a
lot of stuff that tends to pull around

477
00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:10.480
it, which increases gravity because it's
increasing mass. But the black hole itself,

478
00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:15.360
there's sort of this safety zone that
or danger zone. I guess that's

479
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:17.159
safety zone, you know what a
past it because that's dangerous. The danger

480
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:21.880
zone the event horizon, the point
that return, and that's that region that

481
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:29.599
once you do cross over that it's
that an area where the gravitational effect,

482
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:34.199
you know, the gram situal effects
have been measured to be so powerful that

483
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:43.159
from our understanding, it's moving so
fast that it excels light speed that the

484
00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:46.519
only way anything can escape would have
to move faster than light speed, and

485
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:51.400
as of right now, that is
our cosmic speed limit. There's been nothing

486
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:54.239
that's been measured to move faster than
the speed of light in a vacuum,

487
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:59.880
which is three hundred thousand kilometers a
second. And so because of this,

488
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:06.000
you know, we might not really
have any luck of traveling through a black

489
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.440
hole and making it out like they
did an interstellar to bring us back to

490
00:38:09.559 --> 00:38:15.199
them. That you know, that
that was an interesting thing that I think

491
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:17.000
really stood out to me. But
there's so much mystery about black holes.

492
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:22.320
Who knows. Maybe it's possible that
that, you know, a spaceship could

493
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:27.880
travel through a black hole and actually
survive, but right now it's not necessarily

494
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:34.239
likely unless that spaceship happened to have
moved faster than light speed, in which

495
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:38.400
case, according to Einstein, if
an object is moving close to the speed

496
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:42.880
of light, like a body of
mass like you and me were made of

497
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:45.920
mass, that's the amount of material
composed of an object. If we're moving

498
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:50.480
close to the speed of light,
we're actually going to be accumulating more matter

499
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:52.920
because we're while we're passing through a
lot of things in space, so we're

500
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.440
going to be accumulating that, or
we're going to get bigger. And so

501
00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.199
as we get bigger, when we
learned earlier are gravitational, of fact,

502
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:05.039
their gravitational force gets stronger, which
means it would take more energy to move

503
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:09.880
faster. And so it's kind of
this like this this like paradox almost.

504
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:13.840
It's it's like if you're going to
be yeah, so it's like, if

505
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:17.280
you're gonna going to get bigger,
then you need more energy to move faster,

506
00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:21.280
but you can't get any more energy
because you're bigger, and so you're

507
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:24.960
getting slowed down because of your gravity. And so so oh right now there's

508
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:29.920
it's not known that we can move
faster than the speed of light. Yeah,

509
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.480
that makes me think of like you
know, you see hummingbirds like zipping

510
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:37.719
around they're so fast, and then
you think about giants and how they're like

511
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:40.559
raw, like it's almost like there's
slow motion. It's like, so that's

512
00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:45.840
an interesting point and then it just
like this is a total like side note.

513
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:52.400
But the book by Michael Crichton sphear
there is a very and I'm not

514
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:53.960
going to ruin that book at all
because it is my probably my favorite book,

515
00:39:54.480 --> 00:40:00.679
but there's a very interesting discovery in
that book early on where they stumble

516
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:06.599
upon a ship that conceptually was traveling
through black holes. And there's some very

517
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:14.679
interesting conceptual technologies developed on that ship
to allow those explorers to travel through black

518
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.559
holes. That is I'm going to
probably do a whole episode on sphere one

519
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:22.559
day because I love it so much. But you should like, it's super

520
00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.679
interesting stuff. So so it sounds
like there's that safe zone. But don't

521
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:31.559
black holes do they get bigger?
Well, that's a really good question.

522
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:38.159
So right now, the theory is
that as more matter falls into the black

523
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:43.559
hole, because more matter is being
you know, attracted in towards thatta,

524
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:47.480
you know, that surrounding area around
the event horizon, and if matter keeps

525
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:52.920
falling into the black hole, holded
in by the gravity and the black hole

526
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:58.000
is what's happening is that's gonna take
that one again. Right now. The

527
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.559
theory says that as more matter is
falling into the black hole, it is

528
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:07.159
causing the points of the black hole. Imagine you're you're kind of going down

529
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:09.880
a tunnel. So imagine you're falling
into a tunnel and it's getting smaller and

530
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:15.719
smaller and smaller and smaller. It
is getting denser as more matter falls in

531
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:21.519
because it's getting more compressed. So
imagine a giant compression chamber and it's squishing

532
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:27.000
and squishing and squishing, and so
right now, it's yes, they you

533
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:29.719
know, will be getting bigger.
They are getting bigger as a more matter

534
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:34.519
falls in, but they're also getting
denser, which means they're getting more massive,

535
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.800
but they're getting tinier and tinier and
tinier. It's squished, so bigger

536
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:42.920
in a sense of more masks,
but not in the necessarily in the sense

537
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:46.559
of size, but getting more compressed
in like the middle. Again, imagine

538
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:51.800
a compression chamber and more matter is
getting pushed in and so it's getting really

539
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:55.960
really squashed down to this sort of
this point of singularity is right now where

540
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:00.599
the theory is, which is this
idea that is it going to be infinitely

541
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:05.519
dense? Is there a point where
I can't get any denser that it almost

542
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:10.679
loses all concepts of surface, all
concepts of space, all concepts of time.

543
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:16.519
Is it ripping through the very idea
of what space time is. We

544
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:21.079
don't quite know, but we do
understand that, yes, more matter is

545
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:24.400
falling in, so it's got to
be getting more dense within that black hole.

546
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:29.920
So kind of crazy, but I
guess the only way though, they

547
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:34.119
could get bigger is as we mentioned
before, two smaller black holes collide,

548
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:37.599
they can form a medium sized black
hole, and that would be that intermediate

549
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:40.960
black hole. And those tend to
be so we'll talk about size for a

550
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.960
little bit. Those tend to be
a few hundred solar masses. What that

551
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:51.119
just is is the mass of our
sun, so taking a hundred of our

552
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:54.199
sons and squishing them together. But
then you have super massive black holes like

553
00:42:54.360 --> 00:43:00.159
Argantua the movie Interstella Interstellar, that
one. Let's see, I wrote it

554
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:06.119
down that one had a mass of
four point two million solar masses. Wow.

555
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.559
Yeah, But then something really kind
of crazy is oh excuse me,

556
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:16.880
no, sorry, The mass of
the supermassive black hole of Gargantua at the

557
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:22.760
center of Interstellar was one hundred million
solar masses. One hundred million. And

558
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:25.360
I want to do a little bit
on e gullity for a moment. Yeah,

559
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:30.760
a lot one hundred million of our
suns squashed together into a black hole.

560
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:36.800
This is what Gargantua, the fictional
black hole is an interstellar and our

561
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.159
matt supermassive black hole at the center
of the Milky Way galaxy, not as

562
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:44.480
Sagittarius A, is four point two
million solar masses. So that's four point

563
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:47.719
two million suns. So think about
that for about that million. That's so

564
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:53.239
big. Yeah, it's it's kind
of hard to eaven comprehent it. Honest

565
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:55.840
slates like, how don't we go? Yeah, I'm not even gonna try

566
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:59.760
it. I'm just like, yep, it's a lot. Yeah, Well,

567
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:01.599
a really fun thing I'm gonna do
like a little shout out to us

568
00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:09.679
fun software gaming software called Universe Sandbox. It's really fun to play with Universe

569
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:13.920
Sandbox. You're able to sort of
swap objects out with each other and you

570
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:15.960
can put like a black hole where
the sun is and serch, see what

571
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:21.679
happens. Really cool stuff, So
you can maybe conceptualize what that would be

572
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:23.920
like if you ever want to play
with that. Also heard Urble space program

573
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:30.519
too, Is it really fun?
I love curball. That's like actually stupid

574
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:35.360
little games. You know. I
still haven't played it yet. Is it

575
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:39.119
just like super fun? It's just
silly, Like it's so cute because there's

576
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:45.719
like Werner Von Curball, it's like
and then oh my gosh, I just

577
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:49.679
like the va B the Vehicle Assembly
building. It's like you're basically playing around

578
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:52.840
in there and you're building your little
rockets. It's like, I'm like,

579
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:54.320
that's such a great game for kids. So like, I think more kids

580
00:44:54.360 --> 00:45:00.159
should play curball and less kids should
play whatever bring melting games are out there

581
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:05.280
now, there's there's a lot of
them. Yeah, So so it sounds

582
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:09.079
like if there was a black hole
in our solar system, we wouldn't be

583
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:15.519
at risk unless we were within that
danger zone. Yeah. Yeah. The

584
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:17.119
only thing that would probably happen to
us is, you know, we don't

585
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:23.800
have that warmth from the sun,
so we probably freeze to death. So

586
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:29.440
we wouldn't we wouldn't survive because it
would be too cold, but we likely

587
00:45:29.480 --> 00:45:32.119
wouldn't get pulled in depending on the
size of the black hole that you're putting

588
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:36.960
in place to the shun so kind
of looking at like the diameter of the

589
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:42.199
black hole. And actually there was
a black hole that just recently took the

590
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:45.119
place of the biggest supermassive black hole
ever detected in our universe, not as

591
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:52.679
Phoenix A. It recently just replaced
Tons six one eighth, which was considered

592
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:55.280
to be the biggest super massive black
hole in the universe. And Phoenix A

593
00:45:55.840 --> 00:46:01.440
is one hundred billion solar masses.
Wow, so it is so much bigger

594
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:07.239
than Gargantua. So much bigger than
Gargantua. Yeah, so really crazy.

595
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.320
So that's that's a pretty interesting one
to sort of think about. And I

596
00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:15.440
think as a really big diameter.
Also, I don't exactly know what it

597
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:17.920
is off the top of my head, but so not only is it very

598
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:24.679
massive, but it's very wide,
really really wide. So I did want

599
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:30.960
to sort of nitpick a bit about
like the fictional aspect of Interstellar with comparing

600
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:37.920
our black hole with the black hole
in the movie, so Gargantua with Sagittarius

601
00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:40.880
A. And I don't know necessarily
I'm so curious to hear if anyone else

602
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:46.599
is like bothered just trying to do
these calculations, but comparing how in the

603
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:52.760
movie, you know how you said
that they mentioned that it was one hour

604
00:46:53.320 --> 00:47:00.519
on around Gargantua, so on the
uh on Mill's planet. So they're near

605
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:05.239
the event horizon of Gargantua, they
said would be seven years on Earth.

606
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:12.360
Well, current estimates of Sagittarius A, our supermassive black hole at the Milky

607
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:19.840
Way galaxy, is that one minute
at the event horizon of the super massive

608
00:47:19.840 --> 00:47:24.519
black hole Sagittarius A would be seven
hundred years on Earth. So one minute

609
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:30.599
at the yeah, at our supermassive
black hole would be seven hundred years on

610
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:37.559
Earth, compared to the movie which
said one hour was seven years. And

611
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:42.639
this is where I have an issue
because remember we talked about those two different

612
00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:47.719
sizes. Are black holes about four
million solar masses, but Gargantua is a

613
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:52.840
one hundred million solar masses, So
if it's bigger, shouldn't the time dilation

614
00:47:52.840 --> 00:47:58.039
should be much more drastic. So
with ours, it's seven hundred years with

615
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:04.840
one minute, with their it's seven
years with one hour. So that seems

616
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.480
a little you know, And this
was probably a moment where you know,

617
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:09.519
obviously Christopher Nolan's like, all right, well, we got to be able

618
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:13.920
to make it realistic. So Murphy
is still alive by the time. Yeah,

619
00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:20.280
yeah, a little bit of cinematic
magic, but wouldn't like, like,

620
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:22.360
I'm still kind of like stuck on
what you said about like it freezing

621
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:29.679
like, so wouldn't hypothetically Miller's planet
have been frozen over because wasn't that black

622
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:36.360
hole from the sun of that planet? Yeah, that is an interesting thing.

623
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:42.719
They did show that there was a
pretty distinguished accreation disk around it,

624
00:48:42.920 --> 00:48:47.000
So I'm curious if maybe there was
a nearby star that they did show us

625
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:52.239
that helped me warm the planet,
because the planet was pretty bright by the

626
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:55.440
time they were there, So I'm
not sure if that would be it,

627
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.639
and it you know, it could
be also that it was one hundred solar

628
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:05.199
masses and so it may have had
quite a lot of again a created matter

629
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:08.280
around the black hole. So potentially
there was a lot of a lot of

630
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:13.639
stars that can generate a lot of
heat and solar radiation, whereas if we

631
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:19.199
maybe had a smaller black hole at
the center of our galaxy that you know,

632
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:21.960
we probably would freeze to death if
it was a small like a small

633
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:27.039
black hole like a stellar mass then
because we wouldn't really have that heat.

634
00:49:27.119 --> 00:49:30.679
But maybe if there was a much
bigger black hole at the center of our

635
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:34.960
galaxy, if it wasn't big enough
to surpass our orbit where it would engulf

636
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:38.480
the Earth and we would survive.
Maybe there would be some kind of nearby

637
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:45.519
star that's been accumulated around this black
hole that can keep us warm potentially,

638
00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:52.039
but for right now. If there
was something big enough, we probably had

639
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:57.079
the issue of it surpassing where we're
located right now, and so it probably

640
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:00.719
wouldn't golf us. But if it
is a smaller blacke back hole, we'd

641
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:05.239
probably freeze. So I think what
happened in the movie was that the planet

642
00:50:05.320 --> 00:50:10.360
must have been located very kind of
far, respectively enough away from the black

643
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:16.679
hole where it actually would it be, like I guess it wouldn't be close

644
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:20.320
to it. It's just sort of
that Goldilock zone, not too close,

645
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:23.639
not too far, but close enough
for maybe it's picking up on some kind

646
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:29.280
of warmth or heat from a nearby
object, some kind of star that was

647
00:50:29.320 --> 00:50:32.400
an institution, just or wasn't too
close where it was you know, going

648
00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:37.800
to you know, be within the
event horizon scale size size of of the

649
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:42.280
black hole. I don't, I
don't know. I'm getting like twisted up

650
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:45.119
in my own thoughts about this.
I know, black holes like I've seen

651
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:50.079
socialized it is, but that's why
it's so fascinating, and I actually think

652
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.960
that's why people are so curious about
it. And here's like a total like

653
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:58.800
other other thing. My husband is
completely obsessed with Lord of the Rings,

654
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.760
like he read the Simmerialia. He
loves Lord of the Rings fandom, and

655
00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:06.400
there's a whole science behind. I
mean, Lord of the Rings is amazing,

656
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:09.239
it's an amazing novel. But one
of the reasons why the fandom is

657
00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:14.039
so deep is because the Lord of
the Rings universe is so complex, and

658
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:17.719
every time you discover the answer to
one of the mysteries, it opens up

659
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:23.360
ten other mysteries where it's like you
learn about the ball Rocks and the I

660
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:27.079
don't know if this is his thing, the my tour, the Mrkoth,

661
00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:30.079
whatever it is, but it's like
there's these infinite universes to discover within Lord

662
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:34.800
of the Rings. And I feel
like it's similar with black Holes, because

663
00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:37.280
every time we answer a question,
there's more questions and that drives our obsession,

664
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:40.039
like we just want to know.
We get more and more curious.

665
00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:44.559
It's like I also feel the same
way about like five Nights at Freddy's I've

666
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:46.000
just gotten into that fandom in the
last few years, and I'm like,

667
00:51:46.199 --> 00:51:51.480
I need to know where did Freddy
Fasberg get his immortality. So every time

668
00:51:51.639 --> 00:51:54.639
that there's something that's really complicated and
complex and deep, it just makes us

669
00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:59.480
more obsessed and we just need to
know. We just keep searching for those

670
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:04.159
answers. Yeah, yeah, completely, so until the day we can maybe

671
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:07.920
find a Miller's planet near a black
hole and we'll have these answers, you

672
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:15.360
know, it's questions possibly answered.
It's yeah, it's it's such an amazing

673
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:19.960
it's such an amazing field of astrophysics, just black holes. And we haven't

674
00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:24.480
even touched on wormholes at all in
the I know, I know it.

675
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:29.920
We're predicted by Einstein and you know, and so like maybe it's only a

676
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:34.800
matter of time before we actually will
come across wormhole. Like I believe that

677
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.880
we might actually find one, you
know, one day. Like I don't

678
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:40.559
think it's super far fetched where it
may exist, because I just think that

679
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:44.360
we thought that black holes were too
far fetched and look at that when there's

680
00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:47.519
just they're popping up everywhere. Yees. I mean, you just think about

681
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:52.440
like the beauty of a sunrise is
far fetched. It's like existence itself is

682
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:55.400
far fetched. It's like everything is
far fetched until it's proven. And I

683
00:52:55.519 --> 00:53:00.599
think that every single day is an
opportunity for humans to like just to take

684
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:05.840
that reminder to not take anything for
granted, because what are what is our

685
00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:10.199
modern convenience and technology would have been
like absolute magic for ancient people. And

686
00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:15.320
it just gets me excited. I
read, Wow, I'm totally blanking on

687
00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:21.760
doctor Mityo Cacals. He has an
interesting book, The Future of Humanity,

688
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:24.719
and I read that and I was
like, yes, this fuels my curiosity,

689
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:30.639
like you wouldn't believe. And he
mentions in that book, how you

690
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.480
know, he says that same thing, ancient people would have thought that our

691
00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:37.760
modern life is magic. They would
have thought that phones were magic. That

692
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:40.360
was the only explanation. And I'm
just so curious to think about the future

693
00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:47.159
technologies that are offspring are going to
produce and it will seem like magic to

694
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:52.719
us. So you know, the
wormholes, it's like that seems so mysterious,

695
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:57.280
the multiverse, other dimensions with doppelgangers, it seems so mysterious. But

696
00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:00.199
it's like, maybe we'll reach a
future when day where it's just like that

697
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:06.000
is science fact, and that's the
life we're living. And you're going on

698
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:09.000
vacations to other universes and like kids
are still going to be the exact same.

699
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:10.920
They're going to be bored. They're
like, mom, come on,

700
00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:15.000
Universe three is so yeah, it's
just like because we're always going to be

701
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:20.039
human and no matter what. And
I actually do want to ask you about

702
00:54:20.079 --> 00:54:22.320
that, like what kind of technologies
are we are, Like what kind of

703
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:28.360
emerging technologies are we advancing right now
that are helping with our understanding of black

704
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:30.280
holes? Like what are some of
the big questions we're asking that some of

705
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:35.199
these technologies are hopefully going to be
answering in the near future, Like I

706
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:39.559
know James Webb telescope was a game
changer. Are there any other technologies coming

707
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:44.440
out they can help us answer some
of these questions? Gosh, you know

708
00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:49.239
there's gotta be just give me a
moment to really think about that. I

709
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:52.920
might not know any honestly, other
even you mentioned James Webb, There's definitely

710
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:59.079
going to be some I think great
just great telescopes generally both on Earth and

711
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:01.280
also space, tele scopes that may
be able to help us with that.

712
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:08.920
I know with exoplanets there's tests the
Transiting Exoplanetary Service on light, so not

713
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:14.760
necessarily looking into black hole information.
But I think some things on Earth that

714
00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:23.440
are really interesting is well, there's
the Gravitational Wave Observatory, so LIGO laser

715
00:55:23.480 --> 00:55:29.239
into parameter Gravitational Wave Observatory. Can't
believe I have that just memorized the top

716
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:35.840
of my head, nerd aleard Alart, but it's I know that's done a

717
00:55:35.920 --> 00:55:39.880
lot of work with detecting gravitational waves, which are sort of these ripple effects

718
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:45.719
throughout space time that happened when save
black holes collide, and I believe that

719
00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:49.320
was what actually helped lead to the
discovery of the intermediate black hole. I

720
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:54.480
mentioned like just so many times in
our interview today, because when black holes

721
00:55:54.519 --> 00:56:00.800
will collide, they're going to cause
a very big disturbance with in the fabric

722
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:07.519
of spacetime that could be detected through
just these these very sensitive pieces of equipment.

723
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:12.079
That that's the majority of the understanding
that I have about what exactly they're

724
00:56:12.119 --> 00:56:14.719
doing to detect it. I've got
to go visit it some time and actually

725
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:20.880
check it out, but I know
Ligo is definitely contributing factor to that.

726
00:56:21.280 --> 00:56:25.880
There's also the event Horizon telescope that
brought us the image of that first black

727
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:30.400
hole. I believe it also got
us an image of Sagittarius A the black

728
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:32.320
hole at our center of our galax. Yeah, what year? What year

729
00:56:32.360 --> 00:56:37.639
did those images come out? Gosh, that first one was setmember it was

730
00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:42.440
I think it was April sixteenth,
it was the date, and I think

731
00:56:42.519 --> 00:56:49.199
it was twenty nineteen, twenty eight, two forty eight pm. Well,

732
00:56:49.880 --> 00:56:52.719
I'll always remember it. I mean, it might have been at like one

733
00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:54.519
pm because I was I was actually
on a photo shoot that day. It

734
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:58.599
was when I was still boddeling in
New York, and I remember stopping the

735
00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:00.679
shoot to watch the press conference.
I was like, guys, we need

736
00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:05.840
to watch this right now. And
it's like, uh no, ma'am,

737
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:08.239
you're working right now. We're sorry, like model camps, yep, the

738
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:10.880
shoot and I'm like, oh,
well, this is more important than everything

739
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:15.199
right now. And and so I've
always remember that day, like I intentionally

740
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:20.280
had a stop just to watch this
press conference when they revealed the image.

741
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:22.480
So it was a huge deal on
it. And I believe it was twenty

742
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:28.239
nineteen was the day it Lea was
April, so yeah, it was a

743
00:57:28.320 --> 00:57:31.199
huge moment. It was that was
like so exciting because you ab to see

744
00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:34.840
so much of the black hole.
I know, like a lot of people

745
00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:37.679
were like, oh, look at
this fuzzy image. There's so many means

746
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:42.840
about it. Yeah, but yeah, yeah, it was so it was

747
00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:46.760
so cool. And then like also
like side note audience, Athena was scouted

748
00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:52.239
by America's Next Hot Model at one
point. So I just want to add

749
00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:55.079
for all, not just not just
ladies, but like women and men.

750
00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:58.440
It's like you could be both.
You can be brains, you can be

751
00:57:58.519 --> 00:58:02.159
beautiful, you can be weird,
you can be introverted extroverted. It's like

752
00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:07.519
science is for everybody. Like science, Like you don't have to be like

753
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.280
some nerdy dude with like a buzz
cut and a lab coat. Like you

754
00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:15.039
can be anybody with any lifestyle and
experience and interests and be a scientist.

755
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:19.159
And that's one thing that I do
love about you, Athena, is that

756
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:22.159
you just like you kind of you're
just you're doing it all. Oh,

757
00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:24.280
thank you, Heidi. And you
know, I've had some of the most

758
00:58:24.320 --> 00:58:30.480
fascinating conversations around these concepts actually like
odd shoots with other models who have I

759
00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:35.320
mean, I've met so many models
who have degrees in STEM that I've met

760
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:38.360
like other people and other jobs and
other workforces. I mean, it was

761
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:44.599
like really fascinating. So I've had
some really awesome conversations with just creatives in

762
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:51.119
the fashion industry in general around these
really complex concepts in astrophysics, and that

763
00:58:51.280 --> 00:58:54.920
really made for a great, great
decade long career. Well, it's so

764
00:58:55.199 --> 00:59:00.360
crazy because there's like there's just so
many like it's just like the dumb model

765
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:05.480
stereotype and it's like, actually,
no, that's false, Like there's a

766
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:08.679
so I actually so so Athena and
I so listeners, This is just for

767
00:59:08.800 --> 00:59:14.320
your FYI. Athena and I met
through Instagram, I guess because we started

768
00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:19.639
following each other because we had both
attended a really cool opportunity at NASA,

769
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:23.119
and we didn't meet at the same
event, but we went to different ones

770
00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:28.519
where we got to interview some of
the subject matter experts. At these events,

771
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:30.840
I went to the Crew seven launch
Athena, which one were you at?

772
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:35.920
My first one was for the Goza
Weather satellite, which is what tells

773
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:39.280
our iPhones what the weather is and
then I went to another one. I

774
00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:42.719
went to two other ones, and
I don't remember off the top of my

775
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:46.159
head. It was for the launch
of the in Shite Lander on Mars,

776
00:59:46.599 --> 00:59:50.880
So that was really cool. Yeah, that's exciting, but no at mine.

777
00:59:51.440 --> 00:59:53.719
One of the participants there was Miss
United States. She's beauty, she's

778
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:58.320
great, she's Miss United States and
she has a STEM degree and she let

779
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:00.800
us all sign her lab coat.
She's like normal and I only let kids

780
01:00:00.800 --> 01:00:02.159
sign my lap cooat, but I'll
let you guys sign it too, And

781
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:06.679
it's just so cool to see that. There's just like it really does break

782
01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:08.719
through a lot of stereotypes, Like
even Natalie Portman's a scient to this and

783
01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:13.519
that's not something that everybody knows about
her. And I just think that that's

784
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:17.239
super cool that Yeah, that's so
awesome too. With the lap coat,

785
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:22.880
I love that I know she posted
any photos of it, yet she's posted

786
01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:24.800
so many great photos. Like I
was looking around at like everybody else's like

787
01:00:24.880 --> 01:00:28.199
content that they were like making,
and I'm like, uh, well,

788
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:32.400
I have an Android phone, so
I hope this turns out well. But

789
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:37.400
I just wanted to ask were there
any other cause I can I feel like

790
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:40.480
I just get so excited with these
topics sometimes. Was there anything else that

791
01:00:40.559 --> 01:00:45.480
you had, like, really wanted
to share about black holes that we didn't

792
01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:50.519
quite get to before we get to
our reality check moment. Briefly looking at

793
01:00:50.559 --> 01:00:52.599
my notes for just a moment,
you know, just for fun, I'm

794
01:00:52.599 --> 01:00:55.440
gonna just show the camera just in
case we decide we want to share that.

795
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:00.880
I do this all the time whenever
I'm like watching lecture or something.

796
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:04.599
Just so many amazing things to talk
about. You know, I think we've

797
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:08.440
got on everything. Let me just
think for one moment it was there was

798
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:10.719
something I was thinking about, but
we might get to it. Actually,

799
01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:17.039
when we talk about the the reality
check, it was Christopher Nolan concept concept

800
01:01:17.159 --> 01:01:22.440
of comparison between those two. No, yeah, let's move it. Let's

801
01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:27.800
move forward. Okay, here it
is sorry than you now Here it is

802
01:01:27.840 --> 01:01:34.519
the moment of truth. So Athena
is the time dilation portrayal of Miller's planet

803
01:01:34.599 --> 01:01:39.079
in the movie Interstellar scientifically accurate on
our one to five reality check score.

804
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:44.119
Where would you rank it? Let
me look back at the voice that he

805
01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:49.199
remind me what the speculative one was
the full name? Okay, on my

806
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:52.559
other oh, well, the four
the speculative speculative science is a four.

807
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:58.039
I have that on a decorative science
yes, from five to one. Okay,

808
01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:01.440
yes it was not okay, So
out of speculative science number four,

809
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:06.519
I would say that kind of just
following modern theories, they did a great

810
01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:10.440
job. Made a few adjustments kind
of here and there just to sort of

811
01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:15.360
make it really like awesome for the
movie, such as I think that time

812
01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:19.079
dilation at the black hole, the
fact that the black hole was moving really

813
01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:22.280
close to the speed of light also, which we didn't mention earlier, I

814
01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:27.960
thought was really interesting. Not sure
necessarily on the truth behind that and the

815
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:30.880
possibility of that actually existing. But
I think other than that, they really

816
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:34.360
hit the nail on the head with
this one. I think they did a

817
01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:39.079
great job with even creating the artificial
gravity in that end scene for the O'Neill

818
01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:45.480
cylinder. The that just was amazing
Cooper Station. So I would give it

819
01:02:45.639 --> 01:02:50.239
number four speculative science. That's how
i'd say it. That is so cool.

820
01:02:50.280 --> 01:02:53.079
And you know what blows my mind
is I feel like most of these

821
01:02:53.159 --> 01:02:59.559
episodes end up being like fours or
fives, Like even some of them,

822
01:03:00.199 --> 01:03:01.639
I was like, for sure,
this is too like for sure, this

823
01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:06.559
is like way far fetched. And
then I'll talk to some scientists They're like,

824
01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:08.159
oh no, we're doing that already. I'm like, what, that's

825
01:03:08.280 --> 01:03:14.119
terrifying, that's so crazy, And
so it just like it really just shows

826
01:03:15.920 --> 01:03:19.000
like this is why I love side
fiction. Is it like kind I kind

827
01:03:19.039 --> 01:03:21.800
of think it almost like predicts the
future, Like it shows us what's about

828
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:27.159
to happen, and that's what's so
exciting to me about the genre. Yeah,

829
01:03:27.320 --> 01:03:29.960
I almost put it at it too. I almost did, and that

830
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:31.760
was because I was like, well, I'm like, based on our theories,

831
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:35.119
but then I had to remember,
well, these are theories. We

832
01:03:35.239 --> 01:03:37.199
no one's gone inside a black hole. No one sent anyone inside a black

833
01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:39.760
hole. Oh. And that was
the last thing I did want to talk

834
01:03:39.800 --> 01:03:44.079
a little bit about, which was
really just the bookcase experience and what it

835
01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:47.280
was like that he actually went through
the black holes inside the bookcase and then

836
01:03:47.599 --> 01:03:52.760
was able to come out safely and
you know, not be spaghetified. I

837
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:57.159
thought that was pretty interesting where I
think, most likely that might not happen,

838
01:03:57.320 --> 01:04:00.280
but but we don't know. We
never sent to anyone inside of black

839
01:04:00.320 --> 01:04:02.639
holes, so I had to put
it out a number four. Yeah,

840
01:04:02.880 --> 01:04:08.920
yeah, well and then just like
the the vortex that the future beings created

841
01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:12.239
within, that was just like that's
going to be a whole other interesting topic.

842
01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:16.079
It's like will our will our not
our ancestors, our offspring, Like

843
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:21.920
way far in the future, will
they be able to build things through time

844
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:27.000
and gravity that can assist us with
helping the human rights survive? Like who

845
01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:31.559
knows? These are these are big
questions. So Athena is there just like,

846
01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:35.480
let let us know. Are there
any places where people can find you

847
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:39.480
if they have follow up questions?
Are there any projects you're working on that

848
01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:44.079
you want to promote or anything else
that you want to kind of promote or

849
01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:51.199
say yeah sure? So I made
it pretty easy my handles astro athens on

850
01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:57.800
every single platform. I'm really pushing
my YouTube channel right now. I just

851
01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:01.719
revamped that launching a really long form
video soon. When I went to the

852
01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:10.400
new star Base facility through SpaceX where
they're building the starship rocket going back to

853
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:14.280
the Moon and Mars one day to
carry people to Mars. So I did

854
01:05:14.360 --> 01:05:17.079
a whole tour and that's videos coming
out soon. So I would love for

855
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:21.079
those for anyone listening here to check
out what I've got on a YouTube channel,

856
01:05:21.679 --> 01:05:28.119
but also on Instagram TikTok, I'm
astro Athens and I've got ashtrothms dot

857
01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:31.199
com actually put together also a nice
self tour guide ebook if anyone ever wants

858
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:35.039
to visit a star base. It's
really open to the public. It's awesome.

859
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:40.239
I got within feet from three starship
rockets and a booster that all flew

860
01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:43.639
to space. We'll kind of just
went up and back down. They didn't

861
01:05:43.639 --> 01:05:45.480
really do anything more than that.
So if you guys are interested, check

862
01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:50.079
that out. I've got all that
also on my website. Thought other than

863
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:55.079
that, Yeah, no, that's
that's everything. Okay, aweso, No,

864
01:05:55.280 --> 01:05:57.480
I think it's like, I love
your branding. I think it's really

865
01:05:57.559 --> 01:06:00.119
fun, and your education that you
put out there is so great. I

866
01:06:00.199 --> 01:06:02.840
love everything you're doing with the eclipse. All right, everybody, Well,

867
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:06.719
thank you so much for listening today. Let me know if you agree with

868
01:06:06.880 --> 01:06:12.480
Athena's Reality Check score, and if
you have anything you wanted to add to

869
01:06:12.559 --> 01:06:15.480
the conversation or questions that you might
have, please let us know in the

870
01:06:15.559 --> 01:06:23.519
comments. And that concludes this episode
of Reality Check. Reality Check. Thank science,