Captain America: Can We Create a Super Soldier? | S01E06

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All right, everybody, welcome back
to the podcast where we discuss the plausibility

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of sci fi concepts with experts.
I'm your host, Heidi Koppo, and

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today we're exploring the science behind super
Soldier CRMs in Captain America Fall Thanks,

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Preparing for Hybrid rives, Activate Factivates
sixty. Present er Seed Lazyl like sweet

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like sweets too slow, All right, reality too, His signs called food

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Show You. Joining us is doctor
Escalante and doctor Escalante is currently an assistant

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dean and Professor of Kinesiology at California
State San Bernardino. Did I say that

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right? That's right? Oh,
I'm so good. And he is also

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the Vice president of the International Society
of Sports Nutrition, Chair of the NSCA

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Bodybuilding and Fitness Special Interest Group,
Scientific advisor for the National Academy of Sports

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Medicine, and a competitive bodybuilder.
Forget this, over twenty years. That's

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amazing because most bodybuilders they do one
show and then they're they're out because that's

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a lot. It's a lot to
go through. So twenty years resume is

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a competitive bodybuilder is amazing. So
stay with us to the end where doctor

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Sclante is going to be tackling our
burning question, which is even remotely possible

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to enhance our soldiers like they do
to Steve Rogers in Captain America. Now,

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before we jump into this, I
do want to highlight how special it

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is that doctor Esclante agreed to tackle
this topic with us because he has over

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one hundred peer reviewed manuscripts, abstracts
or magazine web publications. That's insane.

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He speaks at conferences throughout the nation
and the world about physique enhancement, muscular

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hypertrophy, body composition, performance enhancing
drugs aka peds. I don't know why

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I said that so excited, I
promise I'm not like some kind of crazy

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addict. But it's such an interesting
topic and sports nutrition. And if that

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wasn't enough, he's also he was
the lead subject matter expert for a comprehensive

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twenty plus chapter NASM physique and bodybuilding
coaching program. Wow. So, without

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further ado, let's get ready for
another mind blowing episode of Reality Check,

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and I'm going to start with our
topic introduction. Everybody loves the character Steve

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Rogers aka Captain America, who originally
showed up in Timely Comics, not Marvel

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comics. He was in a Timely
comix in nineteen forty And did you guys

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know that to create the skinny Steve
they had to shoot the scenes three different

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times, once normal with everybody,
the second time with just Chris Evans and

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a green screen, and the third
time was with his body double. And

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to make it more believable, they
had to put marks on normal size Steve's

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chin that were supposed to represent where
small skinny Steve's eyes would be and this

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would help the other actors know where
to look in these scenes. And after

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he receives his super Soldier injection and
is exposed to the fider radiation, they

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were able to zilm with Chris Evans
at a regular size for the rest of

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that movie. And I just think
the idea of the super Soldier serum is

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extremely exciting, Like you guys seen
me like dancing over here basically, And

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both myself and doctor Scalente have worked
in human performance settings for tumitively for a

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very long time and both of us
individually for a very long time, and

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experience we both have experience with I
don't know, you've done mostly bodybuilding,

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you haven't doubled in strong man powerlifting. I'm not strong and powerlifting. No,

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it's mainly be in bodybuilding or other
or other sports other stores. Okay,

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perfect, Yeah, so I'm the
I'll uh hold down the strong man

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in powerlifting. Anecdotes here, But
it is a well known fact that those

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athletes tend to experiment with a wide
range of things that can enhance them because

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they are very competitive and there's not
as much regulation in those sports, and

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so we do see those athletes really
pushing the envelope as far as human performance

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goes. So, doctor Scante,
tell me some of your initial thoughts with

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Captain America and what do you think
might have been in that serum. Yeah,

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well, first and foremost, I
really appreciate the history of the movie

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making because that's really neat that you
have that background and that information, uh

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to see how how they were able
to capture some of this, especially from

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from decades ago. Right, But
uh, you know that serum, you

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know what could it be? And
and you know, is it really something

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that is scie fy and uh,
well, uh, there's there's there's a

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little bit of science behind that because
actually, uh, the US military has

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been utilizing and examining for the use
of performance enhancement drugs to enhance the performance

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of soldiers. Uh So they've actually
earmarked some of their funds for research in

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government agencies to perform research on soldiers
and mainly for the purpose of realistically enhancing

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performance and actually even for the safety
of the of the soldiers themselves. So

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usually it's taesoscone or tososcone derivatives that
are being used. Uh So they and

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these would be considered anabolic steroids that
are utilized, and they're used in moderate

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too, I'm gonna say low to
moderate dosages, not in not in extreme

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super physiological dosages, because obviously safety
is still a concern and that they don't

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go for long terms. But but
there are actually if you actually go on

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just you can go on on a
Google scholar and put in anabolic steroids and

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US Army or anabolic steroids and military, and then you can actually see some

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of these puriity publications that have been
done. Uh they've even been doing some

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of this in rats, for example, or or other rodents to see if

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exposure to some of these anabolic agents
can actually work in alleviating symptoms for example

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from well as you know, as
a soldier you're going to be going and

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you're going to have explosions all the
time that are going to be going on,

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and this may actually cause small amounts
of brain traump and then that small

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amount of brain trauma can actually lead
to a reduced testosteroil production over time.

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Right, And I've known that with
MMA fighters are at such a huge risk

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of low testosterone throughout their career.
Absolutely, so there's a link between all

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of these. So you know,
some of the things that they're actually looking

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at is, hey, can we
actually utilize some of this tsosterone or disoscone

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derivatives to maybe alleviate some of these
symptoms in these soldiers who have gone through

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these different flasts. Other specific research
that has been done that's actually very interesting

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is as you know, soldiers are
go through uh, very intense training and

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they may go on very intense missions
where uh sleep is going to be deprived,

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uh if they're going to have a
very limited amount of food. And

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we know just those two things alone, sleep deprivation is going to be it's

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gonna significantly impact your ability to perform
to think. Uh, it's going to

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decrease uh to safc row levels.
It's going to also decrease leave body mass

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over time. So it's it's it's
not a not a good situation that in

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that stress alone. Secondly, having
a severe caloric deficit. So if you're

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if you're only eating three five hundred
and eight hundred calories a day because there's

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limited amount of food or limited time
to eat because you're on a mission to

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save your life, it's going to
be very difficult to And of course you're

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you're you're moving, you're you're you're
running, you're you're you're walking, you

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have a backpack, you have gear
on. Uh, you might have to

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climb, you might have to stoop, may have to X y Z.

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So all all of the military stuff
that you would see in a movie is

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there. It's relevant. And as
a result of that, think of all

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of the caloric expenditure that is going
on with these soldiers. Uh, the

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the the stress of being in that
you may you may die in this mission.

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So you have lack of food,
you have the stress of potential death,

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and then you have the stress of
lack of sleep because you don't have

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time to sleep. Obviously, now
you're in this mission for two weeks,

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three weeks, four weeks over time, where it's gonna it's gonna have major

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impacts on your body. So what
we do know collectively these soldiers are gonna

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drop a significant amount of lean body
mass. Uh. They're gonna uh and

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their body's gonna kind of go into
a conservation mode. Not only that they're

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not going to be as alert,
they're not going to be as strong,

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they're not going to be able to
perform as much. So what they've actually

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done is, hey, let's actually
see if we can maybe enhance or performance

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and minimize the amount of muscle mass
that they're going to lose and minimize the

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amount of strength that they're going to
lose by giving them a special serum,

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right, and that special serum would
be basically like a performance enhancement drug,

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which would be like an anabolic steroids. So they give them dosages of tasosceroide

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at different dosages anywhere from two hundred
milligrams of to seven hundred and fifty milligrams

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and then so it's not it's not
exuberant, but it's enough to potentially create

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that performance enhancement benefit. And of
course they are monitoring other health risk factors

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as well. They're not just giving
it blindly. You know, it is

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medically supervised and it's given in a
more responsible setting. And then they're measuring

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what are the effects of some of
these factors so that in terms of their

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ability to can they retain some of
their lean mass over time? Those are

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strength maintained? Is it maintained over
over a period of time? So there

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are various studies that have actually been
done in this regard. So this is

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the type of special serum that I
can be used by some of these different

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agencies that have been investigated. So
it sounds like they're primarily using testosterone,

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and I know there's a cocktail of
them out there. And I will say

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disclaimer to anybody listening who's under eighteen, don't touch it. If you're if

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you are still developing, don't even
look into this stuff. Just look at

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it with a curious mindset. And
if you ever do decide that it's something

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you want to look into, look, I can't stop you, nobody can

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stop you. But please consult with
a highly qualified professional before you touch anything

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that can chemically alter your body.
And that'll be my soapbox. If you

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want to add anything to that,
you can. But now I do know

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that an of R was originally designed
to help prevent muscle wasting. So is

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that something that could potentially be beneficial
to them as well or are there potentially

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harmful side effects that would minimize the
benefit to them. Yeah, there are.

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So anabar is obviously disaucerone derivative,
but the way that it's usually administered

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is orally and for it too not
to be broken down and for it to

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be effective, it's got to be
alkylated at the seventeenth carbon atom for it

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not to go through that first bypass. So in other words, if you

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don't alkylate oral steroids at that seventeenth
carbon atom, then your body's going to

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break it down and it's not going
to really get to produce the effects that

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you want it to. So it's
going to basically break it down and you're

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going to have no effects. So
oral steroids are all alkolated at the seventeenth

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carbon atom to allow for oral administration
to be effective. That being said,

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they pose the greatest risk. It
It sounds counterintuitive that that an oral pill

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is more harmful than an injection,
because an injection sounds more i'm gonna say

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intimidating per se, But at the
same time, Actually, oral steroids have

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actually higher higher risk factors and and
higher things to be concerned about, so

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really that the injection is the preferred
method of choice, or pellets. There

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are pellets that can be oh they
get inserted. Yeah, I load those

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of some of that, but but
typically I tend to not recommend at all

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oral steroids or if if you're if
people do them very short amounts of time,

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because prolonged use of that can really
create liver injury over time. So

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whereas what you don't see the same
effect with with the oral I mean with

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the injectible versions of the substances,
So any any one of those that are

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oral derivatives are are going to be
actually create more harm in the long term.

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So use short term probably not a
big deal. But if you if

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you're using anabar for a long period
of time, and long period of time

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could be you know, twelve weeks, you're going to actually see elevated liver

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enzymes pretty quickly because your your liver
has to break that down. So it's

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going to be any when you're doing
an injectable, you're not going to have

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to do that. And I want
to backtrack a little bit. I'm glad

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you said you gave the disclaimer because
I think so many times people just want

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a shortcut to getting the results and
they automatically think, oh, it's just

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because of steroids or peds that people
get this, and you have to really

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backtrack a little bit. Is you
have to realize whether we're talking baseball,

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where you know players are hitting you
know, sixty seventy home runs a year,

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or your your sprinters like the Miriam
Joneses that are that are breaking world

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records. Uh, you know,
these people were the best of the best

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before they even touch the stuff,
and they were doing a lot of things

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right before they even touched the stuff. So I always like to say there's

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a higher chy in what you need
to do. And at the very bottom

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of that hierarchy is basically you know, what's your genetic potential and who are

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your parents? Right, So there's
a big component of that. And then

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layer the top of that is going
to be you know, are you training

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properly? Are you dieting properly?
Are you're feeding your body the appropriate micro

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and macro nutrients to support your training? Are you sleeping enough? Are you

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are you are you getting wasted?
Every weekend, you know, and and

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and drinking a significant amount of alcohol. Because if and I'm thinking of that

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that young individual right that they think, oh, if I take this,

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that's what's going to get me to
the next level, But they're doing all

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these other things wrong. Right,
So we can't choose the fate of our

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parents. But we can't choose if
we train right and effectively and efficiently,

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And Sarley, we can't choose if
we sleep enough and adequately. We can't

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choose if are try to kind of
mitigate our stress by you know, the

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choices that we make. We can't
choose if we drink or not, or

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if we do how much and how
often. We can't choose what we put

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in our mouth every day in getting
enough protein, getting enough micro nutrients,

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getting enough xyz, getting enough calories. And if you're not doing any of

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those things right, the drugs will
work, but they're going to work in

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a much lower amount. And really, I think you need to build that

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foundation of consistent training, consistent nutrition, consistent sleep, not for six months,

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not for a year, I'm talking
for years, and then build that

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foundation and then reach your natural potential
and then figure out, you know what

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it is, and you may realize
you don't even need to use some of

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these things, or you may realize
once you're a mature adult and you have

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the maturity and the financial resources to
be able to consult with a medical professional

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in using some of this stuff,
then you're going to be able to make

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better decisions. Because that's another thing
that I like to say is sometimes people

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think of first of all, there's
a cost to using to using these things,

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and that could be quite a big
cost that people don't realize. Yes,

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it can. I mean sometimes to
the to the tune of I'm talking,

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you know, a thousand to four
to four or five thousand dollars a

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month what it is that you're doing
in the quantities, So that's number one.

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Number two, no physicians that are
going to prescribe any of this stuff.

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So in the United States, you
are breaking the law because it's it's

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not a it's a controlled substance,
right, and there are underground sources in

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which you'd have to get some of
this stuff. Number three is you also

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have to realize that I like the
say, it's kind of like buying a

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high end car. So let's say
you buy your dream Mercedes or your dream

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BMW and you take perfect I can
afford that fifteen hundred dollars a month payment,

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that's cool, But did you think
about how much are it's going to

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cost to do the insurance and cost
to do the maintenance on that car when

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you change the oil, when you
do all these other things. And this

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is what the other external factors.
So in addition to that costly month to

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just get the stuff, you should
have ear marked a certain amount of money

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to see a medical doctor, to
get blood work done, to get other

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medical tests, and to make sure
that your health is good over time.

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Because this stuff typically doesn't kill you
acutely, it kills you chronically over time.

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So if you're not monitoring all these
health biomarkers over time, you're setting

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yourself up for disasters. So and
when we see the research, we actually

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see that most anabolic steroid users when
they start, they don't use it one

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time or two times. They use
it for an app for a range of

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five to fifteen years. And oh
yeah, that's because that's you know,

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from from twenty to whenever you start
winding down your athletic career. And I'll

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let you finish your point, but
I do want to ask you. So

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you've done a significant amount of research
with this yourself, and ethically you can't

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prescribe anything because, like you said, it's illegal, but observational research is

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allowed. So you have been in
the fortunate academic position to be able to

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research this, and this is I
still feel like pees it's you know,

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it's research. It's researched in people's
garage gyms, and you are truly one

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of the few people who is putting
in putting this under an academic lens.

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So I'm curious about your research.
And the other thing I'm really curious about,

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going back to what you were saying, is laying the groundwork of eating

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a healthy diet, getting enough sleep
and whatnot. That is the thing that

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just kills me about our military is
how they just do not provide an environment

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for their soldiers to do that.
And I understand missions are one thing,

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but then you look at some of
these other places where these guys are being

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brought up, like West Point.
My husband went to West Point and just

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hearing some of the stories of Okay, you guys have five minutes to eat

242
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your food, eat a discuss as
you can, and just some are really

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really unhealthy conditions, and then they
expect their soldiers or operators to perform optimally

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when they they didn't cover any of
those basics to begin with. So those

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are kind of my two questions.
Is your research and then just talking to

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how maybe some of our military members
can undo the damage of their lifestyle that's

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forced upon them through their job.
Yeah, so great question. So the

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research I have done, You're right
because of the line of work that we're

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in, and because it's very rare
to see most of the people that are

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doing that are actually prescribing the stuff. You know there it's a medical group,

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medical doctor. So like doctor polpe
is a is a famous researcher in

252
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Harvard who actually does a lot of
this up. He's he's a medical doctor

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and a PhD. Uh, and
he is actually one of the few people

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that has prescribed people some of these
things. And again it's medically supervised.

255
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That being said, you can only
give so much drug, right, So

256
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the highest quantities that have been reported
in the literature are so far around six

257
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hundred milligrams per week of disostro,
which which is a high amount, but

258
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it's relatively a low amount compared to
what is used of the field because there's

259
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no way that an institutional review board
that protects safety of participants is going to

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approve you to give something to the
effect of two grams three grams of of

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drug, where you know that is
going to have deliterious effects, So that's

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never going to happen. So,
as a result, to your point,

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most of the research that we see
in the field has to be observational in

264
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nature. So in other words,
I'm not prescribing anything to people. I'm

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not telling them what to take,
how much to take. All I'm saying

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is are you a performance annancement drug
user? Yes? Or no? And

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then I may take some that are
yes, some that are no. And

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then all I do is I observe, and I ask what are you doing,

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what are you taking? How much
are you taking? And then I

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can actually observe. I can do
certain tests for example, like we can

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measure blood pressure, we could measure
and there are other things that have been

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done like they've they've actually not in
my lab, but we've actually they've actually

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studied, for example, different components
of the heart like ejection fraction, or

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they've measured other health biomarkers. It
can actually take blood and look at what

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happens to these different biomarkers such as
some adequate levels or red blood cell counts,

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or liver enzymes. So you can
look at other biomarkers of cardiovascular function

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such as cholesterol, so you can
do you can run a limpet panel and

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see what's going on. So these
are all things that you can actually do

279
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and you can actually to look at
to see what are the repercussions or the

280
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effects of these higher dosages on people
that take X, Y or Z.

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So that's kind of the nature of
what we see in research and in my

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lab. What we recently published.
It just came out in the Journal of

283
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Strengthing Editioning Research in August. We
actually looked at what were the nutritional,

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exercise and performance and ennascement drug practices
of competitors leading up to competition in the

285
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last thirty days. So one of
the profiles that we ask is, hey,

286
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what kind of drugs are you using? If you're using any There were

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some that were not using, but
a large percentage were. And then and

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this was just at a local show. This wasn't at a pro level show.

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This was a national qualifying event.
And then we're asking that what are

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the dosages that they took per week? UH, And we see a lot

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of different things. We see SARMs, we see different types of anabolic steroids,

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we see human growth hormone, we
see insulin, we see thyroid medication.

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So we see a lot of different
things that are that are being used

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by these by these athletes, not
prescribed by me or anybody else. It

295
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was something that they chose to do
and they were comfortable in reporting it.

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And it's very interesting to see what
what we uh to UH to see what

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what is what is reported reality checks. In addition, I've also had participants

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come to the lab who are using
performance assen drugs and some of the observations

299
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that I make, I'll measure their
blood pressure and you know, you have

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a twenty eight year old male or
female UH with with hypertension. This is

301
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somebody that's eating healthy. You know, it has a low body for percentage

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and they have hypertension. Well,
and then we me kind of ask why

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you look at the drug profile and
then it probably makes sense because there some

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of that can actually lead to hypertension
because increase a high amount of distosterone and

305
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other performance aspen drugs can activate the
ren and Angiotenson system, the ROW system,

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which can then increase hypertension. That's
one of the potential side effects and

307
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other partyovascular effects that it can have. So those are the things that we

308
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actually see, you know, with
people coming in the lab. Yeah,

309
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and that's it's so scary that it's
like you just said, they're taking all

310
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sorts of different things because the coaching
advice that's coming out there that's not coming

311
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from trained medical professionals is either well, this is what my coach had me

312
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do or it's like this is what
I read on Reddit, and so it's

313
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like it's so varied. So it
is really neat what you're doing. Because

314
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I would love I'm a big believer
in research and legalization because I'm like,

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I think we need to put this
stuff on the map academically so that people

316
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can get educated so they're not getting
hurt. Because I do see the news

317
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:12.440
and bodybuilders are you know, the
pro level ones are dropping like flies right

318
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now and it's really sad. And
if we did have more education going into

319
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.359
this, we could save a lot
of lives and not have such varied results

320
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in what people are taking, and
people could understand their left and right limits

321
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of what's safe and what's not and
what's maybe pushing it in a little bit

322
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in the red. But it's okay
if you're doing X, Y or Z,

323
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and I just I think that's really
cool what you're doing. Yeah,

324
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thank you, No, I appreciate
it. And we did just publish a

325
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paper at the end of twenty twenty
two looking at we looked at autopsy reports

326
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of bodybuilders who died under the age
of fifteen, and it was actually,

327
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this is related to cardiovascular debts.
And you know, it's amazing and scary

328
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when you see what is there.
You know, the average age of death

329
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was like thirty six, thirty seven
years old, you know, and I

330
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:10.359
mean we saw we saw an individual
die, I mean twenty six years old,

331
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:14.920
you know, dying of cardiac complications. That's not a normal scenario.

332
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When when you see it, and
then when you actually see the autopsy reports,

333
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.079
you see, well, what did
these individuals have in common? Well,

334
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:29.839
the weight of the heart. So
the heart got too big essentially,

335
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:36.440
so we have cardiac hypertrophy occurring.
Where the average human heart of a of

336
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:41.000
a of a male is about three
hundred and seventy some grams, whereas these

337
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.359
individuals were basically at you know,
close to six hundred grams the highest one.

338
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:49.119
Wow, you're kidding me. Yeah, So you see a lot of

339
00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:52.759
this, and then you see left
pentricular hypertrophy that that's prominent in a lot

340
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:57.480
of them. You see a thorosclerosis
that's very common in a lot of them.

341
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:02.039
So you see some common threads.
Uh and it you know, you

342
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:06.880
can't say cause and effect, right, but but there's definitely a smoking gun,

343
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.920
and you need to investigate further because
there are other components that are going

344
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to contribute to some of this.
But nevertheless, Uh, one common denominator

345
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:21.200
is the the amount of anabolic steroids
that they are using in the polypharmacy.

346
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:25.400
Uh, that that you see.
So that's very common, and that's probably

347
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:33.200
why we see the military sticking to
smaller doses of testosterone, which kind of

348
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.279
circles back to my other question is
how can we how can service members or

349
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:44.119
operators mitigate you know, all the
atrophy and the issues that they're experiencing in

350
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:48.640
the field or even just guys going
to West Point or in OOT camp or

351
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:53.799
just you know, any military jobs
or even first responders for that matter.

352
00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.720
Yeah, and and I you know, this is kind of a difficult question

353
00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:03.839
because I do see the point of
if you're a soldier, you kind of

354
00:28:03.839 --> 00:28:07.880
have to and if you're out on
the battlefield, right, you don't have

355
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.480
the luxury of eating every three hours, you don't have the luxury of sleeping

356
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.759
eight hours, you don't have the
luxury of training. Uh, you don't

357
00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.720
have the luxury of water uh in
a lot of instances. So as a

358
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.640
result, I think, uh,
the reason they kind of train him in

359
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:30.039
this regard is because that's the reality
of what their environment could potentially be uh

360
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.440
when they're when they're out on the
field. So I think if they don't

361
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.599
do that, they maybe do with
them at disorber because then they never experience

362
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.200
that. Now that being said,
I think you have to kind of find

363
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:45.319
that balance within that because obviously if
you're if you're trying to maximize performance,

364
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:48.480
then you need to take some of
these things into consideration uh to be able

365
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.920
to to do that. And and
I think you may be able to find

366
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.920
a compromise or maybe uh. And
and the the Army, the military is

367
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:04.160
actually working on some of this where
I actually just reviewed a paper on different

368
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:10.400
types of gels and bars that are
used for the military, and uh,

369
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:14.079
they're actually looking at that. Component's
like, what kind of functional foods can

370
00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:18.920
be made available to these soldiers that
that is easy for them to consume on

371
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:23.680
the field, in the battlefield,
in when they're out and about that is

372
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:30.559
actually more nutritionally balanced, that can
actually maximize muscle protein synthesis. Uh,

373
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:34.599
that has adequate amounts of protein and
the right quality of protein. So this

374
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:38.039
is some of the things that they
are looking at right now, which is

375
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:44.559
actually it's actually very interesting to see
it because it's it's it's something that is

376
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.599
needed. And then now what they're
seeing is like, hey, some of

377
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:51.880
these bars that they're maybe they're using, maybe it wasn't the best composition of

378
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.039
food and maybe not the best type
of quality protein. So can they give

379
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:00.160
them something else that's going to be
more more efficient for them to be able

380
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.319
to use, more beneficial for them
when they're out on the field. So

381
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:11.599
to your point, so that they
are getting better fuel and minimizing the losses

382
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.680
that they may get from from being
in those conditions. That's cool. So

383
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:19.240
it sounds like, I mean,
I'm so glad to hear the working on

384
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.839
it, because it just kills me
to see these guys, suffering guys and

385
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:26.920
gals, But it really makes me
think about more like any other future technologies.

386
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:32.720
And like in Captain America, they
brought the vita radiation into the mix.

387
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:36.599
He gets injected with his serum and
then it's he's exposed to the vita

388
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:41.240
radiation and boom, he's a foot
taller, he's super muscular, got handsome.

389
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:45.000
I'm like, I'll take that drug. That's like just what we look

390
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.200
good. But are there any other
I don't know, just future enhancements or

391
00:30:49.240 --> 00:31:00.400
emerging technologies beyond chemical that are complementary
to augmenting human performance. Yeah, I

392
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.599
think that's a good question. And
uh, I think we touched on one

393
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.240
briefly, which is you know,
nutrition. I think I think, I

394
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:10.319
mean, what what is what is
the most potent drug? I mean when

395
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.359
I when I speak to different athletes, I tell them it's like, you

396
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:17.559
know what, what's the most potent
drug that you can use that's legal your

397
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.599
food? Right and and and realistically, I mean that is your that is

398
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:25.680
your energy system, and that that
is the way that you can really fuel

399
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:27.920
your your body. Uh So,
you know, to name it a drug

400
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.839
is probably not appropriate, but it
is. It is a tool that can

401
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:37.119
definitely help you. Uh And and
essentially I mean food food. Foods are

402
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.680
chemicals in a sense, right,
so that's that's the way our body breaks

403
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.519
them down. So it's just that
they're different organic chemicals that are broken down

404
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.920
and and through biochemical processes. We
we utilize them for energy, we utilize

405
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:53.480
them to build muscle, we utilize
it for all of the biological functions that

406
00:31:53.480 --> 00:32:00.000
are there. So when we see
the food, I think, uh,

407
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.359
looking specifically at what type of macro
and micronutrients and in what ratios can we

408
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:10.200
actually use and and focusing the technology
on that we can actually get a lot

409
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:14.640
of benefits. And then even looking
at things as like you know, not

410
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:19.279
only quantities, but even potentially timing
of some of these things. And with

411
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.599
the soldiers specifically, I think that's
something that again they're kind of starting to

412
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.720
look at where you know, you're
not going to be able to sit down

413
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:31.000
and have you know, a chicken
breast and some rice and some vegetables and

414
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:35.720
oatmeal and egg whites and berries,
and you know, be able to sit

415
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:38.519
down and have a gourmet meal,
but you may be able to get get

416
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:43.240
this bar under your belt, that
that's not going to spoil, that's not

417
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.400
going to melt. That is a
functional food that is going to give me

418
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:51.920
uh you know, some fiber,
some micronutrients, the right type of protein,

419
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:54.599
the right quantity of protein, so
that I can actually absorb it,

420
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:58.960
that's not going to accept my stomach, that I can actually function, I

421
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.880
can think and and and fuel my
body accordantly. So I think that's one

422
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:09.000
way in which we can we can
look at things. Hydration strategies should be

423
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:12.960
something else, right, So what
what type of things can they do to

424
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:16.599
maintain their hydration levels? So obviously
you're gonna have to drink fluids in addition

425
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:22.039
to that, but you know maybe
in certain extreme environments maybe uh they in

426
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:27.680
many to be enhanced with certain electrolytes
that that may actually enhance performance. So

427
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:31.880
looking at looking at back technology and
then other things that may help would be

428
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:37.599
any of the any any information that
you can get to look at their uh

429
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:43.400
that gives biofeedback for example, So
some of the wearable technology can actually cut

430
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:49.319
my order ring on I love or
a ring big fan sponsored. Yeah,

431
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.359
absolutely, no, I think I
think it's great. So you can actually

432
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.079
look at you know what is happening
under these certain conditions, and then you

433
00:33:57.119 --> 00:34:00.680
can gather that data and then you
can actually you can and make decisions based

434
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.720
on those biomarkers that your body is
reading, whether it's based on heart rate,

435
00:34:06.519 --> 00:34:09.039
you know, or sleeps, quality
of sleep, all of those things,

436
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:13.800
heart avariability, those are all things
that I think that can be monitored

437
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:19.000
and then you can actually see the
effects of different interventions that you're doing.

438
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:22.119
Yeah. So what I'm hearing,
which I love, is that there's not

439
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:27.639
really any emerging technologies that are new
or different, like I don't know,

440
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:34.280
electro magnetism or radiation or something kind
of sci fi futuristic that could aid in

441
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:39.039
our enhancement. Enhancement. It's all
of the tools that we already have at

442
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:43.480
our disposal, and I just love
that. But there's there's nothing because I've

443
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.760
I've heard I don't know, some
weird things, like someone told me about

444
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:52.400
there's like this I don't know if
it was like a wearable like a band

445
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:57.000
or something that it cools down your
blood so it slows down fatigue because you

446
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.199
stay cooler longer and the body doesn't
have to work as hard to prevent fatigue,

447
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:06.079
like are there any I guess this
would be so much in the bodybuilding

448
00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:09.880
sphere, but when dealing with things
like soldier fatigue and needing to perform at

449
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:14.800
high levels for a long times,
are there any other technologies that are emerging

450
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:21.800
that can aid with advanced human performance? You know that I think I probably

451
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.320
haven't read enough in that particular area
to see what is available. I mean

452
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:30.079
there, I'm I'm always a skeptic, you know when it comes to some

453
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:31.960
of this, you know, as
it's but I'm I'm one of those that

454
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:36.440
I never I like to learn from
everyone. And then you know, just

455
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:38.079
because I'm a skeptic doesn't mean that
I'm not going to look at it.

456
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:42.960
So what I like to see is
like, Okay, we have this technology,

457
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:46.920
here's the proposed mechanism of action.
Here's the proposed benefits of what it

458
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:52.440
may do. Okay, so now
let's let's put the scientific lens to it,

459
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:54.760
and then let's test it, you
know, over time, and and

460
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:58.679
then to me, I like to
see, you know, make sure that

461
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:01.800
it's a well conducted study. Uh, you know, that's that everything is

462
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:07.599
controlled accordingly to the best possible way. You know, everything is randomized.

463
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:12.760
Statistics are running correctly, Uh,
that it's addedquately powered with with with with

464
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:15.400
a good sample size, uh,
you know, controlling as much as much

465
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:20.360
of the variables as you can,
and then you know, test it out,

466
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.480
test the hypothesis and see see if
it works. And then if you

467
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:28.519
if you see positive results in one
then okay, cool, we have now

468
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.599
one piece of evidence. That doesn't
mean it's it works for sure. I'd

469
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:36.400
want to see you know, three
or four other studies conducted in different labs

470
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:40.960
with different people that that don't have
necessarily a you know, a conflict of

471
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.480
interest in in what they're doing,
right, and and to me, you

472
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:49.079
know that that's the biggest thing if
you if you only see you know people.

473
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:53.559
This is a good little sidebar because
people sometimes often say, well,

474
00:36:54.039 --> 00:36:59.159
this reason just positive because it's it's
funded by the company, right, Well,

475
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:01.039
but who's going to fund research otherwise? Right? Like, I mean,

476
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:05.679
oh, that's actually a great point. I mean a pharmaceutical company is

477
00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:07.119
only going to test their drug.
Where are they going to test somebody else's

478
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:13.679
drug? So it's because a pharmaceutical
company sponsored the research doesn't mean that it's

479
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.239
it's a bias study. What you
want to be careful with is you know,

480
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:21.239
you know who conducted the study,
was it well, was it randomized,

481
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.840
was it controlled? What analysis were
done? And then now if you

482
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:29.280
only see one study from one company
done by the same lab over and over

483
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:32.039
again, I don't raise a red
flag, but I raise a yellow flag

484
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:36.519
because it's only one lab, so
you know, is there a relationship there?

485
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.559
But now if I see that that
company sponsors research with lap A,

486
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:44.960
B, C, and D,
and now we see consistent results among all

487
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:49.280
these different labs, then I'm going
to be a little bit more accepting of

488
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:52.920
that because I'm going to see,
because you may have one bias scientists,

489
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:54.039
that you may be able to buy
out, but it's unlikely that you're going

490
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:57.760
to be able to buy out four, five or six because you know,

491
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:01.320
as scientists, we we we take
in our research and in our reputation and

492
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:12.239
reality check the signs. So,
for those of you listening, doctor Esconte

493
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:16.440
and I we are both members of
the National Strength and Conditioning Association. So

494
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:21.840
we were talking a little bit at
the national conference this past year and I

495
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.639
told him that that was something I
appreciate about you is that you live in

496
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:29.719
both worlds. You are highly academic, but you're not just a nerd who's

497
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.199
just sitting there reading books all the
time, like you are also very active

498
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:37.599
involved in like I guess, like
your self research, and so you truly

499
00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:44.760
intimately understand everything that you're doing more
so than just what someone's doing with like

500
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:50.639
the research only. So I think
that's super cool, and it's it's interesting

501
00:38:50.679 --> 00:38:54.119
to see like what kind of these
limits of human performance could really end up

502
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:58.679
being, because we're talking about like
what some of these drugs can do and

503
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:00.920
what they can't do. So let's
say, let's go back to your original

504
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.400
metaphor, we're talking about having all
of your baseline things taken care of.

505
00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:07.079
I've always thought of it this way. You have your offense and your defense,

506
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:09.800
or you have your above the line
and below the line. Your defense

507
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:15.719
would be everything below the line sleep, nutrition, hydration, electrolyte, low

508
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.360
stress, like that would be everything
defense. So above that, if we're

509
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:23.440
thinking offense, that would be all
of the augmentation, the stuff that's beyond

510
00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:28.360
that. So let's just play around
with some hypotheticals here. Because in the

511
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:34.760
movie Steve can run thirteen miles in
a half hour, which is a half

512
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.639
marathon. In a half hour,
which is half the time of the current

513
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:43.960
world record, which is held by
a Kenyan Alexander most Steo. I hope

514
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:47.840
I said that name right. So
what are some of our current understandings of

515
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:54.079
the limit of peds and how much
they can enhance someone? And I've always

516
00:39:54.119 --> 00:40:00.400
heard it described as like with those
nos boosts you put on the car fast

517
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:02.760
and furious. I've actually never seen
those movies, but I know about them.

518
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:07.280
But you can put one of those
boosts on like a crappy little Honda

519
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:09.760
Civic and yeah, it's gonna make
it faster, but it's only gonna go

520
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:14.280
that much faster. Or you can
put a booster on a Ferrari and it's

521
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:19.239
gonna fly. So again with your
having your defensive stuff lined up, it's

522
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.079
like, you want to make sure
you're a Ferrari before you start to boost

523
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.559
yourself. You don't want to try
and strap a rocket to a Honda Civic.

524
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.199
Yeah. No, I think that's
a great analogy to do that,

525
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.320
and to say that because a lot
of people do like this, try to

526
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:38.199
strap that that booster on on their
old beat up you know, uh,

527
00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:40.599
not even on hon the Civic.
That's too you know, on their their

528
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.079
their pint. You know they're there
are four pinto from back in the day

529
00:40:45.159 --> 00:40:49.400
that that's barely up and running.
So you know, so you're doing all

530
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.840
these other things wrong and then you
want to take this shortcut to take this

531
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.000
this drug and it's just not gonna
work. I mean, it's gonna work,

532
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:59.400
but it's not gonna work at maximum
capacity. Where if you have,

533
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:01.920
if you have, like you said, all your defensive basi of basis covered,

534
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.119
now all of a sudden, you're
gonna be able to do that.

535
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:07.840
And then that being said, also
you know, we can't choose our parents.

536
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:14.000
And there's a lot of inter individual
variability in our responses to training,

537
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:17.920
our responses to nutrition. So you
always have hyper responders, modern responders,

538
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.039
and non responders to everything where I
mean, you see this in the science

539
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:27.840
where you know, I love to
look at the inter individual variability. So

540
00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:31.039
when they report those, so you
may have individuals going through the exact same

541
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:37.440
nutritional intervention, training intervention, dietary
supplement intervention, and you have some responders

542
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.480
that are like WHOA like, they
respond, their strength goes way up,

543
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:46.079
and then you have other responders to
do the exact same thing that are male

544
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:52.159
or female that are the same age, and then they get worse sometimes or

545
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.880
they only get like a tiny bit
better. And you see some of these

546
00:41:54.920 --> 00:42:00.639
things that do occur. So I
think that the same thing happens with some

547
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:05.599
of these performance and asthmen drugs,
where you're gonna have some individuals where a

548
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:10.320
little bit goes a really long way, and then you have others where a

549
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:15.199
lot it takes a lot to get
the same amount of response. So I

550
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.119
think this is where there's a disconnect
when sometimes people say, oh, well,

551
00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:22.639
you know this strong man or this
top level bodybuilder, like they say

552
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:28.000
that they only take this much stuff, they must be lying, not necessarily.

553
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:30.719
I mean, it could actually be
that they're so genetically gifted and there's

554
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:36.719
such hyper responders for that particular stimulus
that it only takes a little bit of

555
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.400
that to really get that great response
for them. And same thing with side

556
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:45.280
effects, because I like to use
this example. You've probably seen that grandma

557
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:51.800
who's been smoking for seventy five years
and just doing great, great. We

558
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:55.000
doesn't die of cancer, right,
you know, but with her, it's

559
00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:00.480
like she doesn't really respond negatively to
this smoking stimulus. So the same thing

560
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.159
with the performance asmen drug. You
may have an individual where they can take

561
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:07.800
a lot of drug and it doesn't
really affect them negatively, whereas another individual

562
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:15.920
just a little amount of drug can
greatly affect their cardiovascular system, their kidneys,

563
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:19.920
their liver, et cetera, et
cetera. So there's a lot of

564
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:23.199
those different things, which is why
we're going to kind of go back around

565
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:28.800
to our first point, which is
you need to monitor your health all the

566
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:35.119
time to see what is going on
with your health as you're using these interventions

567
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:38.199
and different quantities, and not only
measure it when you're off, because that's

568
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:42.159
what often a lot of people do. It's like they only measure things.

569
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:45.760
I'm going to go to the doctor
when I'm off cycle. No, you

570
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:47.960
need to go to the doctor when
you're off the stuff to kind of figure

571
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:51.679
out so you have a baseline,
this is what happens when I'm off,

572
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:55.199
I'm not completely off, this is
what happens when I'm on at high levels,

573
00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:00.119
and then this is what happens when
I'm off at completely or off at

574
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:07.519
lower levels. And what's the trend? Because if certain biomarkers are creating a

575
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:12.320
negative trend over time, then that's
not necessarily a good thing. So cholesterol,

576
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:17.159
for example, if you see your
HDL cholesterol consistently low and your HDR

577
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:23.199
LDL cholesterol consistently high, and you
see your blood pressure consistently high when you're

578
00:44:23.199 --> 00:44:28.559
on these drugs, there's going to
be some cardiac remodeling going on, and

579
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.880
you better pay attention. It's not
going to happen overnight, but over the

580
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:36.400
course of five, ten, fifteen
years, that's where you're going to have

581
00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:40.239
some problems. Interesting. Interesting,
Wow, I am just eating this up

582
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:46.119
right now. I'm really kind of
thinking back to Mike Stone. So doctor

583
00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:52.000
Stone is another legendary person in the
field. I respect him a lot.

584
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:57.559
But he did a really fun lecture
while back about the past, present,

585
00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:01.199
and future of the profession of strength
and conditioning, human performance and research,

586
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:05.519
and he was talking about some of
the things in the future, you know,

587
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:13.519
talking about things like crisper and physical
augmentation is putting different kinds of metals

588
00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:16.800
or systems in the human body to
enhance performance. But it makes me really

589
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:20.920
think about what you just said is
is some people perform, some people are

590
00:45:20.960 --> 00:45:27.760
super responders, and some people react
very poorly. Can we test too?

591
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.280
Is there any way that we can
predict who's going to perform or respond really

592
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:36.239
well or really poorly to something?
Is that genetics? Is it something we

593
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:37.840
don't know what it is right now? Like, is there any way for

594
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:43.320
us to test and predict how someone's
going to respond to something? Yeah?

595
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:45.920
I think, I mean or starting
to be able to see some of that.

596
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:51.599
You know, you see you see
different you know, different genetic components

597
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:55.199
of an individual or different different things
are going to be expressed other different conditions,

598
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:59.760
and some are going to be expressed
more than others. But the problem

599
00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:05.039
with that is is that there's there
are so many things that we could look

600
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:07.880
at. Is like which one do
you do you kind of identify? Uh,

601
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:13.800
and to actually identify the specific one
and and I'll give what one big

602
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:16.599
example is, uh, you know, like with with creating monohydrate, we

603
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:20.760
have responders and non responders with some
of that, and you know, like

604
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:24.360
one one baseline responder. Uh.
Thing that that you can typically see is

605
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:27.760
like well, if you're if you're
a vegan, you're typically going to be

606
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.800
a good responder because you're you're resting, creating levels are going to be low.

607
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:36.400
Uh, Therefore you're probably going to
respond high, rather than somebody who's

608
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.679
who's not vegan, who consumes uh, who consumes uh, you know,

609
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:44.079
some meat products. Uh, they're
they're resting. Creating level is going to

610
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:47.360
be relatively higher. But that being
said that there may be some genetic components

611
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:52.559
there in addition to that that may
actually make people more responders or or less

612
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:57.280
responded to to to this particular in
this case creating, but it could be

613
00:46:57.559 --> 00:47:00.199
fill filling creative, with filling the
blank, right, with training with a

614
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:06.360
particular protein intake, with a particular
drug that you're using, you're going to

615
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:08.599
have different responses. And and the
thing is is there are so many,

616
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:15.039
so many genes that we could look
at that we don't really know which one

617
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:17.440
to target. So I think we're
moving in that direction. I think,

618
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:22.440
you know, we're starting to see
some of these things, you know,

619
00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:27.719
with regards to to genetics and testing, but I think we have a long

620
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:32.880
way to go. That's so exciting
because it's like I just we just uploaded

621
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:38.360
the Dune episode where we talked about
genetic enhancements and how the Beni Jesser order

622
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:43.000
in the world of Dune is able
to modify their genetics over time, and

623
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:47.760
that episode ended up going to really
heavy into epigenet or not epigenetics, eugenics,

624
00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:52.360
and it was it ended up being
a very grave warning for us to

625
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:57.559
not play god. But it's like
and I and I understand that, and

626
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:01.639
I heed that, but there's still
that deep temptation. It's like, let's

627
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:06.079
see just how high a human can
jump, Let's see how strong we can

628
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:09.320
get a human. And it's like, I think, with my personality type,

629
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.920
I'm a performance driven person. I
always I'm going to be curious with

630
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:17.400
how far we can push a human
being ethically to the highest level of performance

631
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:22.760
possible. But it's like, we
do need to remind ourselves as a scientific

632
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:25.400
community. It's like when we start
looking at things like genetics, like we

633
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:30.920
learned in the Dune episode, you
don't know what expressing one gene could do

634
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:35.119
to something else, because you could
you could select for a certain gene,

635
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:38.079
but you don't realize that that gene's
also associated with something completely different. Yeah,

636
00:48:38.199 --> 00:48:40.760
if you guys are interested in that
episode, ILL like that one so

637
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:47.760
you can get that whole spiel from
my geneticsitist expert. But I'm also curious

638
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.440
and I did have some people ask
me to ask you this question. SARMs.

639
00:48:53.199 --> 00:49:00.800
They're such a hot topic right now. Are they something that academically we're

640
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:07.960
looking at as a viable option for
human performance or soldier augmentation in the future,

641
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.519
or are they just some weird saying
that a bunch of guys in their

642
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.920
warehouse gym are getting really into because
they're not a ped but they are.

643
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:20.519
And for those of you listening,
I'm doing quotations. Yeah, no,

644
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:23.320
that's that's a good question. Before
you go there, I'm gonna I'm gonna

645
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:28.400
answer that question. But there's a
book that actually talks about pushing the limits

646
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.199
of human performance. It's called The
Perfection Point. And if you haven't read

647
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:37.119
that book, it actually kind of
talks about it hypothesizes, like like,

648
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.519
what's the fastest we can we can
run the one hundred meter dash, what's

649
00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:44.760
the fastest we could swim a certain
event? And it kind of gives some

650
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:50.199
hypotheses based on the technology that is
available, and it basically kind of pushes

651
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:53.679
all of the elements of human performance. And it's a really cool book.

652
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:57.480
So if you haven't read it,
I encourage and I read it a few

653
00:49:57.559 --> 00:50:00.000
years ago and I have to look
it up as I couldn't remember the title

654
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.000
of it, but it's called The
Perfection. How Fast, how far?

655
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.800
How high? I'm definitely going to
read that because I'm really interested in that.

656
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:13.840
Yes, arms everybody, it's the
question that every I want to say,

657
00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:15.840
like every guy in college and their
twenties and their thirties, they're like,

658
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:20.239
it's not a drug, so it's
not as bad. It's like,

659
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:25.000
it's you're the expert. Yeah,
so it is a drug. It's it's

660
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:32.880
selective androgen receptor modulators. Uh So
basically they are drugs. They're they're they're

661
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:38.320
very they're they're most of them are
not at the approved for anything. There's

662
00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:43.800
very little that we know about them
and what we see. Actually, there

663
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:49.559
was an article published not too long
ago by doctor Darren Willoughby and his group

664
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:53.519
of individuals, and they actually took
an individual that was using some psarms over

665
00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:57.840
a period of time. It was
a case study, and you know,

666
00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:02.239
they did find some some improvements in
uh in performance, but we see a

667
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:07.400
lot of deleterious side effects. And
in fact, what we see is the

668
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:12.679
deleterious side effects are you know,
as bad or worse than using anabolic steroids

669
00:51:13.639 --> 00:51:17.599
or other performance aspen drugs and that
the amount of benefit is actually not as

670
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:22.119
good. So oh yeah, you
would know that with the bro science.

671
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:25.360
The bro science loves it. Yeah, it's so there. So what we

672
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:29.440
see is there there's really not a
lot of I mean, if you're if

673
00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:32.079
you're gonna choose, if you're going
to cross, if you're going to cross

674
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:36.840
the road. So number one as
ARM is still crossing the road. So

675
00:51:37.079 --> 00:51:39.800
it's not it's not you know,
it's not it's not creatine, it's not

676
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:45.119
protein. A SARM is crossing the
road to a performance assmen drug. Now,

677
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:49.199
so it's a type of performance as
been drug. How effective is it

678
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:52.519
not? Very? Uh that that
has a lot of side effects? Uh,

679
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:55.400
and and we we know very little
about him. Uh. You know,

680
00:51:55.440 --> 00:52:00.679
again, there's there's been a lot
of research on anabolic steroids over the

681
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:05.199
years because they were used and they
argused medically and prescribed medically for a lot

682
00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:08.199
of different reasons. So we have
research going back, you know, sixty

683
00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:15.400
seventy years plus in in that arena
SARMs, we don't have a lot and

684
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:20.639
in fact, again this is why
they're not Most of them are not at

685
00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:23.920
the approved So you're really not going
to get the same benefit and you're going

686
00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:29.239
to probably get as much of not
more side effect. So the just the

687
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:32.440
benefit ratio is different. The one
people were The one group of individuals where

688
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:37.960
it's a little bit different is with
females because they do have they do have

689
00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:43.400
that ergogenic benefit. They do still
have some potential consequences, but the main

690
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:50.519
thing is is the virilization is usually
a lot less with them. So virilization

691
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:54.480
in females is going to be typically
less with psarms than with them with others.

692
00:52:54.559 --> 00:53:00.679
You know, those are appropriate.
That being said, we have a

693
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:07.960
lot of research today on uh,
the effects of females in using anabolic steroids

694
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:12.280
because, uh, what is the
biggest thing that we see a lot of

695
00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:17.159
people doing, which it is basically, uh, the the transgender population.

696
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:22.679
Right Yeah, I wasn't even thinking
about that, but that's massive hormone usage.

697
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:25.719
It's huge. So so if you
have if you if you have a

698
00:53:25.719 --> 00:53:31.400
female that wants to become a transgender
male, what is the number one thing

699
00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:36.440
that they're prescribed It's going to be
growth. So we have a ton of

700
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:39.880
research on that whereas and we know
actually where where that where you you cross

701
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:45.800
the line because the side effect for
a female who doesn't want to look like

702
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:51.119
a man would be virilization, right. So, uh, but you know

703
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:55.800
where you cross that line because that's
a desired quote unquote side effect for a

704
00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:00.480
female looking to be a transgender male. They want to look like a man,

705
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:04.639
right, They want to be more
that have those male characteristics. So

706
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:09.000
as a result, we actually know
like how much what kind of dosages can

707
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:15.400
you utilize before you cross that line, because the goal of that research and

708
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:21.239
those individuals is to cross the line
so that they can look more like males.

709
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:24.599
And that's when their testosterone for women, that's when their testosterones starts getting

710
00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:30.119
at or above like the five hundred
limit usually yeah, yeah, yeah,

711
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:32.480
and even even three hundred to be
honest, that's the lower end of that's

712
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:36.199
the low nanographs for descol leader because
even at three hundred, I mean,

713
00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:38.960
that's that's still significantly higher than what
a female's going to produce. It's on

714
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:45.039
the low end for a male,
but it's it's still on exorbitantly high for

715
00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:49.159
a female. What would you say
is the optimal testosterone range for men?

716
00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:53.840
For optimal not just average, Yeah, I would say somewhere in the neighborhood

717
00:54:53.840 --> 00:55:00.320
of at least seven hundred to maybe
a thousand would be kind of a good

718
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:05.480
range where that validates me because that's
what I say to all my athletes as

719
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:07.679
well, like that's where you want
to look to be, And it kills

720
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:09.400
me when they get their blood work
back and they're at like one hundred and

721
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:13.679
fifty two hundred, Like you are
a twenty four year old man, you

722
00:55:13.719 --> 00:55:16.719
should not be at one hundred and
fifty. Yeah. Yeah, And if

723
00:55:16.719 --> 00:55:21.440
they're doing that, then there's definitely
some environmental things going on. This is

724
00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:25.920
where you're probably looking at alcohol intake, sleep, stress, other things.

725
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:31.639
McDonald's yep, all of it.
So I have one more question before I

726
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:37.239
let you say if there's anything else
you wanted to cover, But would peptides

727
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:42.880
are peptides similar disarms in the fact
that they have more negatives than positives or

728
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:46.239
are they a totally different animal?
Yeah, they're slightly different. But at

729
00:55:46.280 --> 00:55:51.599
the same time, I think it's
one of those where there's not a lot

730
00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:54.519
of research in them either, So
I think a lot of what we see

731
00:55:55.119 --> 00:56:00.800
is anecdotal. So as a result, it's one of those where you really

732
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:05.559
have to take it with a grain
of salt. And I mean you just

733
00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:07.440
have to be so careful. I
mean, I don't know if you if

734
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:12.960
you remember, I can't remember that
the young gentleman's name right now. I'm

735
00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:15.960
blanking on it. But uh,
Bossom Lloyd. So Boston Lloyd died at

736
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:22.760
twenty nine years old. Okay,
and Boston Lloyd he utilized anabolic steroids,

737
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:28.800
yes, But in addition to abusing
anabolic steroids for many years, he abused

738
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:34.000
I mean, he was his own
self experiment. He abused everything, including

739
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:38.599
these these peptides and various types of
peptides. And I mean, at the

740
00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:40.800
end of the day, it's like
you don't know what you're putting into your

741
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.760
body. It's you don't know what
their side effects are. And he was

742
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:50.159
utilizing in higher dosages, so you
know, it's like, yes, he

743
00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:53.159
did die. This is one good
example where you know it's not always caused.

744
00:56:53.199 --> 00:56:54.880
And in fact, a lot of
people say, well, it's because

745
00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:59.039
of the sterois. I'm like,
well, he was taking anabolic steroids,

746
00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:01.800
yes, and high dosages, but
he was taking a lot of other things,

747
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:06.920
yeah, or well above and beyond
that, which which contributed I mean,

748
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:09.719
And he ended up having an aneurysm
and he passed away, but he

749
00:57:09.800 --> 00:57:15.000
was already on. He was like
on stage four liver or a kidney failure.

750
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:17.800
It's sus ound a funny age.
Well it makes me think also,

751
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.079
like rich Piana and I remember when
he died, everyone was just like,

752
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:25.199
you know, the steroids were probably
just a fraction of the drugs that were

753
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:31.599
in his body when he died,
because that guy was taking everything possible and

754
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:36.119
probably things that we haven't even heard
of. He was, he was the

755
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:40.679
drug guy. This has been amazing. Has there been any other things that

756
00:57:40.719 --> 00:57:45.079
you wanted to touch on or that
you that you really wanted to mention to

757
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:50.239
this audience before we get to our
reality check moment, because you were like,

758
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:52.159
I could, I could talk to
you all day, but I know

759
00:57:52.199 --> 00:57:54.320
you've got important things to do.
So what are some other maybe important things

760
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:58.800
you wanted to share with us?
Yeah, I think up this kind of

761
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:04.599
I'm gonna double dip on the importance
of working with a healthcare professional to get

762
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:07.440
your health check. And it is
whether you're on drugs or not. I

763
00:58:07.480 --> 00:58:10.760
mean, I think a lot of
individuals that are healthy, you know,

764
00:58:10.800 --> 00:58:15.519
they avoid going to the doctor and
getting regular blood work done, so you

765
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:17.800
know, I mean, I think
at middlemum once a year to check all

766
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:22.400
of those things. But definitely,
if you're using performance assmen drugs, that

767
00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:24.559
should be something that you do three
to four times a year, and visit

768
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:29.039
your doctor at least a couple of
times a year to get all of those

769
00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:32.920
things in check and make sure that
you're monitoring your health over time, because

770
00:58:34.400 --> 00:58:37.760
otherwise you're just putting your head in
the sand and you're not really looking at

771
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:40.840
what's happening, and you may look
great on the outside, but you're rotting

772
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:45.480
on the inside, and then before
you know it, you're going to be

773
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:49.280
a statistic and you don't want to
be a statistic. Yeah, yeah,

774
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:53.039
And there's I mean, there's so
many resources for that. There's even online

775
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:57.800
systems that, like, you know, you can do subscriptions where it's it's

776
00:58:58.199 --> 00:59:00.280
blood work. They keep your blood
work call in like a nice database,

777
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.639
and if you have any recommendations for
those, you can email me and I

778
00:59:04.679 --> 00:59:08.519
will put those in the link or
in the description box below. But let's

779
00:59:08.559 --> 00:59:14.079
do our reality check moment you ready, Let's do it. So on a

780
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:22.239
scale of one to five, how
realistic would you say that Captain America's transformation

781
00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:30.320
was from pure fiction to science facts. Well, considering you ran a thirty

782
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:37.360
minute half marathon, I would say
it's probably a three just because it was.

783
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:40.440
It was a that's still very extreme
regardless of what you're taking. But

784
00:59:40.880 --> 00:59:47.599
regardless, there's definite at least some
likelihood that something was working. Awesome,

785
00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:52.519
Well, already have it. We
got a three, So thank you so

786
00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:57.719
much for coming on. Are there
any other promotions places where people can reach

787
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:00.920
you if people want to follow up
about your research? Whe's the blessed places

788
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:04.159
for them to get ahold of you? Yes? I think the easiest one

789
01:00:04.400 --> 01:00:07.679
is via my social media on Instagram, which is at doctor g Fit.

790
01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:14.199
That's all spelled out so doctor g
Fit and you can find me there,

791
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:21.840
or you can actually just google me
Guierramyscolante CSUSB or Guerois Galante Bodybuilding. You'll

792
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:25.559
get access to my website, or
you can find me on my university website

793
01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:31.960
there and you can find my contact
information. Perfect. Well, I'm definitely

794
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:36.239
excited to read more of your research
that you're working on, and I know

795
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:38.800
you know we've done so much the
past seventy years of research, and the

796
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:42.679
next twenty I think are going to
be even more exciting. Because we have

797
01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:45.960
such a greater foundation to build on. So I'm excited. So thank you

798
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:50.639
everybody so much for coming on Reality
Check today. Let me know in the

799
01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:55.400
comments if you agree or disagree with
Doctor Escalante's score of the Super Soldier serum,

800
01:00:55.639 --> 01:01:00.199
and if you have anything interesting to
add or questions for anything that you

801
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:02.639
wanted to add to the conversation,
please let us know in the comments.

802
01:01:02.960 --> 01:01:08.079
Until next time, Reality Check Science
ob Fection