Leadership Personified – an interview with Sarah McArthur | RR247

Janice Porter: 00:00:01

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's

Janice Porter: 00:00:03

episode of relationships rule. I'm very excited about my guest

Janice Porter: 00:00:08

today, Sarah McArthur who is joining us from New York,

Sarah McArthur: 00:00:12

New York, East Coast, Pennsylvania, New York.

Sarah McArthur: 00:00:16

And

Janice Porter: 00:00:17

Sarah is she has an amazing resume, so to speak,

Janice Porter: 00:00:23

that I want to share with you. But I first of all want to

Janice Porter: 00:00:25

welcome Sarah to the show.

Sarah McArthur: 00:00:27

Thank you, Janice. so wonderful to be here.

Janice Porter: 00:00:30

Thank you. I love that we met on LinkedIn. And I

Janice Porter: 00:00:33

meet some of my most interesting people on LinkedIn. And I always

Janice Porter: 00:00:37

say that because I teach people how to use LinkedIn. And they

Janice Porter: 00:00:40

don't often think that that can happen. And it does, but you

Janice Porter: 00:00:43

have to, you have to know what you're doing and you have to be

Janice Porter: 00:00:47

reaching out in the right way to people. So I was amazed and in

Janice Porter: 00:00:51

so interested when I learned what Sarah does, and I want to

Janice Porter: 00:00:55

share this with you. She is the editor in chief of the apex

Janice Porter: 00:00:59

award winning leader to leader journal, which was founded by

Janice Porter: 00:01:04

Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient, Francis hasslein, who

Janice Porter: 00:01:09

we're gonna get into talking about Francis for sure in this

Janice Porter: 00:01:12

episode, and she is a thought partner and trusted adviser to

Janice Porter: 00:01:17

former CEO of Boeing and Ford, Alan Mulally, who is considered

Janice Porter: 00:01:22

one of the greatest leaders of the 21st century, Sarah's

Janice Porter: 00:01:25

mission is to help leaders work together towards a bright future

Janice Porter: 00:01:29

for all her fields of expertise are leadership management,

Janice Porter: 00:01:34

personal leadership, development, and executive and

Janice Porter: 00:01:37

business coaching. She is currently producing defining

Janice Porter: 00:01:41

moments, a documentary about Francis hasslein with an Emmy

Janice Porter: 00:01:45

Award winning doc documentarian, David and Beverly Schlanger

Janice Porter: 00:01:50

Schuler Sarah has authored and edited many books including

Janice Porter: 00:01:55

making waves with former CEO of Celebrity Cruises. Lisa lute off

Janice Porter: 00:01:59

parallel and work is love made visible with Marshall Goldsmith

Janice Porter: 00:02:03

and Francis Hatfield. Heseltine forwarded for it done by Alan

Janice Porter: 00:02:08

Mulally. Now, there's so much more. And I don't want to sit

Janice Porter: 00:02:12

here and just read this because I want to dig in with you,

Janice Porter: 00:02:16

Sarah. And where I want to start first is the fact that these

Janice Porter: 00:02:23

names Francis hassled by an Alan Mulally and, particularly, and

Janice Porter: 00:02:30

Marshall Goldsmith, they come up a lot. And what that meant to me

Janice Porter: 00:02:35

is it isn't just about work relationships, these are people

Janice Porter: 00:02:39

that became personal relationships in your life,

Janice Porter: 00:02:43

people, you know, like and trust, and that really has

Janice Porter: 00:02:47

colored your world for so long. So can you speak to that?

Janice Porter: 00:02:51

Because I'm all about relationships. Right? And to me,

Janice Porter: 00:02:54

that is the most significant piece.

Sarah McArthur: 00:02:58

Oh, thank you so much for having me, Janice. I'm

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:00

so happy to be here. And this is such a special time for me to

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:04

get to talk with you. And I love your subject matter so much.

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:09

You're so right. I'm fortunate in that the people that I get to

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:14

work with these few that we're mentioning right now, Marshall

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:19

Goldsmith, Francis Hessel, Bine, alum Lolly, not only am I do I

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:26

work with them work together with them, but they're also

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:29

very, very, very dear friends. Not only am I their dear friend,

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:34

and they're my dear friend, but they are also dear friends of

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:37

each other. Wow. So Marshall Goldsmith, one of his heroes is

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:43

Francis Hessel by,

Janice Porter: 00:03:45

and I think she's one of your heroes, too. Oh,

Janice Porter: 00:03:48

definitely.

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:49

alum lolly. One of his heroes is Francis Hassel.

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:52

Buying. And so I was introduced to Francis a number of years

Sarah McArthur: 00:03:56

ago, working on a book with Marshall Goldsmith. And I had

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:03

known of her and, you know, wanted to meet her. And then I

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:08

was the managing editor of a book. So I wanted to put this

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:11

book together about leadership. And so ask all these different

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:15

contributors what their idea of leadership was, and going

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:20

forward. And I asked Francis, and she responded, of course,

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:25

and she wrote an article and sent it back. And what was so

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:31

interesting about that article, I had been in the leadership

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:33

field for a while. And what was so interesting about that

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:37

article is I remember reading it early in the morning. When I

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:42

like to do my editing, I'm reading it early in the morning

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:45

and reading her, her her article or message, and it is the first

Sarah McArthur: 00:04:53

article about leadership that ever made me cry aloud. The

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:01

message was right to my heart. And the message of that article

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:09

is about respect for all people. And how that has been the

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:14

guiding principle for Francis throughout her life. And

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:19

Francis, what I loved dearly, CEO of the Girl Scouts from 19,

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:24

site 976 to 1990. Peter Drucker, founding father of modern

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:31

management said she was the greatest leader he had ever met,

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:34

you know, they work together partner for many years, a little

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:36

like Ellen Malala. And I, I think she wrote, I don't know,

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:41

wrote and edited 27 or 28 books, she was awarded 23 honorary

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:48

doctorate degrees. And was she, she she didn't graduate college

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:54

because she was taking care of her family. So she, you know,

Sarah McArthur: 00:05:58

she was 1951 class chair at West Point, she was extraordinary.

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:04

And she was she was the type of leader who believed in

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:12

inclusion, appreciating people sharing leadership, not telling

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:17

people what to do not command and control. But, you know,

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:22

sharing leadership. And I thought, when I was reading this

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:27

article, I thought this this article by Francis, this

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:30

contribution, I thought, if Francis can be who she is, with

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:37

respect for all people, if she can lead this way, and have this

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:44

impact. So can I Oh, wow. And, you know, so since then, that

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:52

was in early 2000s. Since then, I have found ways to get as

Sarah McArthur: 00:06:57

close to Francis as I possibly can, because that's what I do.

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:00

She's, I love her with all my heart.

Janice Porter: 00:07:03

So we'll come to her story in a minute. I did

Janice Porter: 00:07:06

see, though, that I wrote down that she said that leadership is

Janice Porter: 00:07:09

how to be not how to do.

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:12

She did the full quote. And I follow this like

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:18

crazy. The full quote is, leadership is Francis's personal

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:26

definition of leadership. And she said, leadership is a matter

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:31

of how to be not how to do it is the quality of our character

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:38

that determines our performance, and results. So, to me, what

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:47

that means is, I can be a leader, whose character, I have

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:53

respect for all people, that is my character, and that will

Sarah McArthur: 00:07:56

determine my performance and results, meaning everyone will

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:02

be included and feel appreciated and all that kind of stuff. And

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:05

if I am a leader, whose character is different from that

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:11

there's a different quality, my performance and results will be

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:16

different. So she had us focus on things like humility, love

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:21

and service. So

Janice Porter: 00:08:25

tell me a little bit about lead the leader to

Janice Porter: 00:08:27

leader journal that you that's your baby, right? You're the

Janice Porter: 00:08:31

editor in chief of that is a it's still a real, tangible

Janice Porter: 00:08:37

journal, or magazine. And how does it come out?

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:43

leader to leader journal was started by Francis

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:46

founded by Francis Heseltine in 1996. So, it's been around, she

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:50

was editor in chief until four years ago or so three years ago

Sarah McArthur: 00:08:55

or so. And it's quarterly, it's a print and online publication.

Sarah McArthur: 00:09:03

We have probably 15 contributors at each issue. Our recent issue

Sarah McArthur: 00:09:11

was a commemorative issue about Francis you know, all the people

Sarah McArthur: 00:09:18

who are a lot of the people who have been influenced by Francis

Sarah McArthur: 00:09:23

who liked to write and have written for the journal

Sarah McArthur: 00:09:26

contributed a piece about her there's no way then

Janice Porter: 00:09:29

we can go any further without talking and

Janice Porter: 00:09:31

getting to know really who Francis is because she's so you

Janice Porter: 00:09:36

know, in it, I don't know the word. You're the writer it's

Janice Porter: 00:09:42

been it hasn't come to me but you know, she's, she's not

Janice Porter: 00:09:45

embodies but you know, she's everywhere when it comes to you

Janice Porter: 00:09:48

and and your work. So, and I'm very excited. I did watch the

Janice Porter: 00:09:53

trailer twice to that documentary and I can't wait

Janice Porter: 00:09:57

till it till it comes out so I can learn More. I mean, I'm

Janice Porter: 00:10:01

learning little bits as they go along about what an amazing

Janice Porter: 00:10:04

woman and leader Francis was because I had never heard of

Janice Porter: 00:10:07

her. First of all, I'm Canadian, but that shouldn't be the issue.

Janice Porter: 00:10:11

But Girl Scouts of America, right, I wouldn't have gotten

Janice Porter: 00:10:14

that concept or that piece. My daughter, my one of my daughters

Janice Porter: 00:10:19

was a Girl Scout here, but I don't think I ever heard her

Janice Porter: 00:10:22

name come up. So tell my audience about who she was. And

Janice Porter: 00:10:30

the fact that she's, like, amazing, and that you are in the

Janice Porter: 00:10:35

midst of producing this documentary about her life,

Janice Porter: 00:10:38

which is going to be come out next year, and it's going to be

Janice Porter: 00:10:40

amazing. So tell us who she is. She, okay. Go.

Sarah McArthur: 00:10:47

Francis is very special. Our documentary will

Sarah McArthur: 00:10:52

come out summer of next year. That's our plan. It's called

Sarah McArthur: 00:10:55

defining moments, The Life and Leadership legacy of Francis

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:01

Hassel bine. Francis Housel bine. You can tell she is dead.

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:06

I am definitely all about Francis. Because Francis, to me,

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:14

embodies who I think we can be. If we want to all work together,

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:26

she is that she has the characteristics and qualities of

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:32

of people who want to work together. She definitely is that

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:37

person. So Francis was born and raised in Johnstown,

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:42

Pennsylvania, and in 1915, so she served she served us for 107

Sarah McArthur: 00:11:50

years. That's

Janice Porter: 00:11:51

what I was waiting for. She was 107 When

Janice Porter: 00:11:54

she died, and to lunch the day before she died with you or that

Janice Porter: 00:11:59

the week before.

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:00

No, no, we didn't go to lunch. The day

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:03

before. No, we were

Janice Porter: 00:12:05

here. Or there in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Yeah,

Janice Porter: 00:12:08

we are here in Easton, Easton. But you used to go to lunch with

Janice Porter: 00:12:12

her once a week, right? Yeah,

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:14

we went to lunch. So I used to live on the,

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:18

on the west coast. And Francis was had a place in New York. And

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:25

so I would meet her for lunch, we would go to the force, I

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:28

would take her to the Four Seasons restaurant. And not

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:32

every week, but very frequently it was it was pretty frequent.

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:36

And every time we went to lunch, she would always ask me the

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:40

question, which is the question that's we asked of all the

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:46

contributors for book or book work is love made visible? And

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:51

the question is, what do you see? When you look out the

Sarah McArthur: 00:12:55

window that's visible, but not yet seen by others? So Frances,

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:00

back to that question about Francis, who she was Francis was

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:04

the type of leader who she always she always had us.

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:12

Thinking about self awareness, she always had us thinking about

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:15

who we are, you know, why we are, who we are, what we do, and

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:21

how we do it, she had us, she had a way of leading us not by

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:27

telling us what to do, which was the old way in her time was not

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:33

the old way. That's our time, that was the way more and she

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:41

she had a way of leading us, you know, leading hundreds of 1000s

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:45

of volunteers at the Girl Scouts, right? massive

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:50

turnaround to include all little girls, instead of just some

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:54

little girls, I mean, massive turnaround. She had a way of

Sarah McArthur: 00:13:58

leading us not by telling us what to do so much, but by

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:05

having us look inside ourselves, at who we want to be, you know,

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:12

back to that leadership as a matter of how to be that how to

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:14

do who we want to be in this world. And then just wonderful

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:21

things happen as a result of that role

Janice Porter: 00:14:23

model really extraordinary in her time,

Janice Porter: 00:14:27

right? Because there weren't many women in who had the

Janice Porter: 00:14:32

influence that she essentially had, didn't she she got the

Janice Porter: 00:14:36

Medal of Freedom from Bill Clinton, President Clinton,

Janice Porter: 00:14:39

right. And, and how So one was that that would be the 90s but

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:44

that was in the 90s. She's the first woman to

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:47

graced the cover of Businessweek is the first woman to ever chair

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:51

a United Way campaign. So she and she was also she was the

Sarah McArthur: 00:14:58

first woman to do a lot of things. And when asked about it,

Sarah McArthur: 00:15:05

or when she was she was she was asked about being a woman

Sarah McArthur: 00:15:08

leader, she would say, I'm a leader who happens to be a

Sarah McArthur: 00:15:14

woman. So don't focus on my. Yeah, you know, my, my gender.

Sarah McArthur: 00:15:21

Yeah, focus on who I am.

Janice Porter: 00:15:25

So she'll be adamant about that. And

Janice Porter: 00:15:28

so she

Janice Porter: 00:15:32

the book would work is love made visible that you did with. It

Janice Porter: 00:15:39

was the story of Lisa lotof. Pirlo, right, who is the CEO,

Janice Porter: 00:15:45

former CEO of Celebrity Cruises, and wasn't she with another

Janice Porter: 00:15:51

company as well? I don't remember.

Sarah McArthur: 00:15:53

So the book with Lisa Lu Tov Pirlo is called

Sarah McArthur: 00:15:56

making waves. Oh, sorry, making waves the other that'll be

Sarah McArthur: 00:16:00

published in early early Well, in February, early 2008. Okay.

Sarah McArthur: 00:16:04

Right. Because that's forthcoming. Is

Janice Porter: 00:16:07

that did you edit that or did you write

Sarah McArthur: 00:16:11

Lisa and I wrote that, Lisa, she's the she's the

Sarah McArthur: 00:16:15

CEO. Well, thus, she was the CEO of Celebrity Cruises, and she

Sarah McArthur: 00:16:19

has become the, the vice chair of External Affairs for Royal

Sarah McArthur: 00:16:25

Caribbean group was, which is, okay, we're overall company.

Sarah McArthur: 00:16:29

Right? Okay. So

Janice Porter: 00:16:30

I think what what is interesting to me is, as I

Janice Porter: 00:16:33

was doing a little bit of research I mentioned before we

Janice Porter: 00:16:35

went on air that I saw another book that you were involved with

Janice Porter: 00:16:41

called a time, a time to lead. And that was written by Craig

Janice Porter: 00:16:47

Dowden. And it says, with Alan Mulally and Sarah, Sarah

Janice Porter: 00:16:51

MacArthur, so how do you how do you do that? Like, somebody's

Janice Porter: 00:16:56

writing the book, and then it's with you, what does that mean?

Janice Porter: 00:16:59

Because I have no idea. I see it all the time. But what does that

Janice Porter: 00:17:01

mean?

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:02

It depends on on the book that we're working on.

Janice Porter: 00:17:08

It depends. So use this as an example. It with

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:14

this. Craig Dowden is the lead author and

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:18

Alan and I have, it's called a masterclass. Okay, so within

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:23

each chapter that Craig wrote up about the principles of

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:27

leadership, there's a masterclass section. And that's

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:32

Alan and I, so we have been writing it.

Janice Porter: 00:17:35

And so you do the practical pieces around. Okay,

Janice Porter: 00:17:39

that's

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:40

how working together applies with this

Sarah McArthur: 00:17:42

certain principle.

Janice Porter: 00:17:44

Okay. Okay. Now, do you see, I'm going off left

Janice Porter: 00:17:49

field here. Do you see any positive changes, or any sort of

Janice Porter: 00:17:58

huge leaps around leadership today? From what it was like,

Janice Porter: 00:18:04

you know, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago? Probably? Has it

Janice Porter: 00:18:08

changed?

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:11

So my, in leadership, my, for me, I always

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:15

think of leadership is just like, you know, coaching or cars

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:18

or whatever it is, I have a specific area of leadership that

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:24

I would address, I would answer this question too. So for me,

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:29

communication in leadership has changed dramatically. Do

Janice Porter: 00:18:36

you mean communication style? Or do you

Janice Porter: 00:18:39

mean,

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:39

just technology style?

Janice Porter: 00:18:42

Yes. And the way it happens, okay. Absolutely.

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:46

I mean, you could look at something as

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:48

simple as attention span, when it comes to communication. And

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:52

were 20 years ago, it would be nothing to think of a speaker

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:56

speaking for an hour about a subject. I mean, that would

Sarah McArthur: 00:18:58

probably be too short, two and a half would be better. And now

Sarah McArthur: 00:19:01

it's okay, if you're going to go longer than 15 seconds, I'm not

Sarah McArthur: 00:19:04

going to be able to keep our audience's attention. So we need

Sarah McArthur: 00:19:07

to engage them with something, something rather

Janice Porter: 00:19:09

Isn't that something. I my granddaughter

Janice Porter: 00:19:12

called me last night or her mother FaceTime to me. She's

Janice Porter: 00:19:15

only four. And she stood there and she said, Hi, grandma. Do

Janice Porter: 00:19:19

you like my new sweatshirt? Mommy bought it for me? And I

Janice Porter: 00:19:22

said, it's lovely Amara, I said, I hear that you went somewhere

Janice Porter: 00:19:26

special today. Where did you go? Science World and then off she

Janice Porter: 00:19:32

went, but that was it. That was her attention span. It was gone.

Janice Porter: 00:19:37

And that to me is is epitomizes what, it's what it's like today

Janice Porter: 00:19:42

because you're right, it is so much more difficult to keep

Janice Porter: 00:19:46

people's attention.

Sarah McArthur: 00:19:49

So and and so there's the flip side of that.

Sarah McArthur: 00:19:53

So it's you know, the attention is changing technology, you

Sarah McArthur: 00:19:59

know, all the all All the reasons people talk about. So

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:02

our attention is changing, our attention spans are changing.

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:07

And so route rather than, you know, studying it, taking a

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:14

pause, reviewing it, asking about it and trying to

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:19

understand it, it seems like, a lot of times people are trying

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:27

to keep people engaged in the old way, rather than just let

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:34

them go, you know, it there, we definitely have, we definitely

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:39

have communication challenges in lots of areas, and a lot of it

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:44

has to do, I mean, so much of it has to do with, you know, first

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:48

there was the internet, and then there was the cell phone, and

Sarah McArthur: 00:20:52

now there's the AI, there's just so much change, we have these

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:00

tools, it's like, you know, back in the old days, when, I mean,

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:04

the really old days, when someone discovered fire, that

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:08

was a big deal. And we're kind of doing that right now. You

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:12

know, we could send up smoke signals, you know, there was

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:15

fire, we could, there was a big deal. And today, we have these

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:20

incredible tools. And different people think differently about

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:25

them. So my area of leadership and communication, you is

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:32

significantly changing. And I'm constantly, you know, as editor

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:39

in chief of leaders, a leader, I'm constantly died, try not to

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:42

write every column about, you know, this, this thing that I'm,

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:47

I'm I participate in, you know, as who I am, but I also am

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:51

observing, as someone who's constantly observing, you know,

Sarah McArthur: 00:21:56

this, this area of our, you know, of our, of our, our

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:01

humanity. So, a long time not too long ago, but in one of the

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:08

books, I think it was, it's probably coaching for

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:12

leadership. And then again, maybe in work is love made

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:16

visible. You just, I can look back at these older writings,

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:23

and see how, you know, I was thinking about it. You know, I

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:27

was thinking coaching for leadership, I was thinking about

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:30

communication, and how leaders communicate, and, you know,

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:33

should have three important messages, community clarity, you

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:37

know, consistency. And then, you know, the next book a couple of

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:40

years later, you know, now we have Snapchat, and people really

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:45

aren't paying attention. And now, again, even later, just

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:49

just watching the changes in this, this arena, and it just,

Sarah McArthur: 00:22:53

it affects everyone, it's not just me.

Janice Porter: 00:22:56

No, it does. It affects us, though, in different

Janice Porter: 00:22:58

ways, because people of our generation, now we have to learn

Janice Porter: 00:23:03

something new again. And it's, it's a little bit harder or a

Janice Porter: 00:23:06

little bit, you know, less comfortable than for the younger

Janice Porter: 00:23:11

people who, you know, are coming up with it, you know, and so,

Janice Porter: 00:23:17

but then that's what keeps us young, I think, too, is is if we

Janice Porter: 00:23:20

stay with the times, right? And instead of going to because I

Janice Porter: 00:23:24

hear a lot of, it's funny, you say that because I've see, I

Janice Porter: 00:23:30

listened to what you have to say, and what I've read and so

Janice Porter: 00:23:32

on, is like, Okay, you're with the times in a mature way, and

Janice Porter: 00:23:38

I'm leaning in good thing, not not a bad thing. But there are

Janice Porter: 00:23:46

some people who still hang on to the old way of doing things or

Janice Porter: 00:23:52

their the way things were in when they were in their prime,

Janice Porter: 00:23:56

let's say, and you can't you can't sustain that today. Right.

Janice Porter: 00:24:02

Does that making sense?

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:03

Yeah, that Yep, exactly. I agree. It cannot be

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:06

sustained. Just like we can't keep people engaged, who are now

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:11

have a shorter, intense attention span, can't force them

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:15

to stay engaged. No, chasing after them is kind of like non

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:19

stop. That's not the way let's let's let's stop for a second.

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:23

And, you know, just digest this for a moment.

Janice Porter: 00:24:27

Right? Yeah. So it's fascinating, really, to me.

Janice Porter: 00:24:31

So I know that so Marshall Goldsmith is which is a name

Janice Porter: 00:24:37

that I've known over the years as a personal development

Janice Porter: 00:24:41

leader, right on leadership, I suppose as well. He had an he

Janice Porter: 00:24:46

was like, like, like a Tony Robbins. Marshall Goldsmith,

Janice Porter: 00:24:50

Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn. Those people right. He was

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:56

definitely a thought leader and yes,

Sarah McArthur: 00:24:58

definitely, definitely in in that arena, I've worked with

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:02

both. So I worked with Tony Robbins many years ago,

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:05

definitely personal development. My personal development with

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:10

Tony, that's, that's what we worked on. And with Marshall, he

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:14

is an executive coach. So his his focus is working with

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:21

successful leaders to help them become even better for

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:24

themselves, their people and their teams. That's more in the

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:28

organizational business arena.

Janice Porter: 00:25:32

So I guess, you know, based on thinking about

Janice Porter: 00:25:35

leaders today, and them working on themselves to be better

Janice Porter: 00:25:42

leaders, what percentage of people in that stratosphere

Janice Porter: 00:25:47

actually do that? More than you would see it more, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:25:53

average level, like mid level leaders?

Sarah McArthur: 00:25:59

It's a really great question. And that's where

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:04

follow up is so important. Marshall, years ago, I think,

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:12

maybe 15 years ago, wrote an article and this is what his

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:16

coaching is based in. One of the really important aspects of his

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:21

coaching is that he, the article is called Leadership is a

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:28

contact sport. And it's based on a survey of 1000s and 1000s, of

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:32

leaders. And that follow up has everything to do with change. So

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:42

if a leader is going through the executive coaching process, then

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:48

there's the initial steps of, you know, review feedback,

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:54

deciding what to change, working with stakeholders, telling them

Sarah McArthur: 00:26:59

what you're going to change with the code, what the, the client

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:02

wants to change, and then, and then there's follow up. And our

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:08

perception of whether or not somebody changes, has a whole

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:13

lot to do with whether or not we think about it, that person,

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:17

they may change like crazy. And I may not even know because that

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:21

person hasn't said, hey, you know, I said I was gonna stop

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:24

telling you, you were I was going to stop yelling at people

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:26

in meetings. Have you noticed? I've been really working on

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:29

that. If I don't say something, the chances of people noticing

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:37

go down dramatically. Isn't that interesting?

Janice Porter: 00:27:40

That is interesting that because we go

Janice Porter: 00:27:43

back to leaders. It's how you beat how you are not not? What

Janice Porter: 00:27:48

was it?

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:49

It's a matter of how it's been not how to do. So

Sarah McArthur: 00:27:53

that's kind

Janice Porter: 00:27:54

of interesting that you still have to make that

Janice Porter: 00:27:58

connection with your team or your you know, the people that

Janice Porter: 00:28:02

you're leaning

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:03

to, especially if it's if you're if you're

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:05

working on behavioral change. So if I, if you meet me, and you

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:10

think I'm a nice person, then I don't really have too much to

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:14

worry about. But if you meet me, and you think I'm a jerk. And

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:19

then you know, I continue that behavior. And then I want to

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:21

change that behavior. I recognize it. The the you'll

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:27

you're going to go back to your default impression of me. Unless

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:32

you tell me otherwise or show unless i i asked you about it. I

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:37

mean, just even asking you. If you know how I'm doing. Just

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:43

even asking you is huge. Just That step alone, most people

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:48

will go Wow. So really, change isn't so much about me doing it

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:53

all by myself. Change has a lot to do with. That's, that's why I

Sarah McArthur: 00:28:59

always say it's working together towards a bright future change

Sarah McArthur: 00:29:01

has a lot to do with us being in this together.

Janice Porter: 00:29:05

And communicating. Right, which we

Janice Porter: 00:29:07

go back to living

Sarah McArthur: 00:29:09

birds super important.

Janice Porter: 00:29:13

Well, this Sara, we could go on and on. I think I

Janice Porter: 00:29:16

may have to ask you to come back. And I want it to be when

Janice Porter: 00:29:19

the documentary is out because I'm so excited

Sarah McArthur: 00:29:22

to meet you. Thank you so much. If anybody

Sarah McArthur: 00:29:25

wants to know anything about it, you just please please let me

Sarah McArthur: 00:29:29

know. Absolutely.

Janice Porter: 00:29:31

And when this airs, I will put a link to the

Janice Porter: 00:29:35

trailer as well and everything because I'm very excited for you

Janice Porter: 00:29:38

about it looks really fascinating. And just before you

Janice Porter: 00:29:41

go, I that's your main project, I think that you're working on

Janice Porter: 00:29:45

right now. Is it not what else are you working on?

Sarah McArthur: 00:29:48

I would call that's my that is the that is my

Sarah McArthur: 00:29:51

heart project. That's where my heart is.

Janice Porter: 00:29:54

So So yes, so we'll we'll stay tuned for that

Janice Porter: 00:29:59

and And just one little last question for you before, before

Janice Porter: 00:30:03

you go, well, actually two one is I'm really curious do you

Janice Porter: 00:30:06

use? Are you a person that all work and no play? Or do you have

Janice Porter: 00:30:10

fun sometimes too? What do you do when you're not working? Oh,

Janice Porter: 00:30:14

I

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:14

have a lot of fun.

Janice Porter: 00:30:18

What's your most fun thing to do?

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:22

This is an interesting story, and I'll make

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:24

it very quick for you. I like to go so some people like to do

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:30

Yes. Like some people like to be. I like those too. But I

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:35

really like to go so I like to go you know, get in my car, go

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:41

for a drive, go see music go see friends. I like to I just like

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:45

to go go traveling. I was recently in for gone for about a

Sarah McArthur: 00:30:50

month I went to the thinker's 50 event in London. Yes, yes.

Janice Porter: 00:30:56

I have heard about that first through Dorie

Janice Porter: 00:30:58

Clark, who has been a guest on my show. And then Caroline, who

Janice Porter: 00:31:03

you is Carolyn? Carolyn, thank you introduce you. She was

Janice Porter: 00:31:08

there, right?

Sarah McArthur: 00:31:09

Yes. And yes, exactly. And I. And then I took

Sarah McArthur: 00:31:13

myself on a little trip after that to Scotland and went, I've

Sarah McArthur: 00:31:18

been traveling around a little bit. So I have now. I have now

Sarah McArthur: 00:31:21

landed.

Janice Porter: 00:31:24

Oh, that's fantastic. Thank you. And last

Janice Porter: 00:31:27

question, what's your favorite piece of thought, you know,

Janice Porter: 00:31:34

thought leadership to share with my audience.

Sarah McArthur: 00:31:39

So, for me, it comes from the teachings of

Sarah McArthur: 00:31:44

Francis and Alan Mulally. And it's this phrase, our one life

Sarah McArthur: 00:31:55

is our life's work, which is our love made visible.

Janice Porter: 00:32:02

I will say that one more time,

Sarah McArthur: 00:32:04

our life's work. Our one life or one life is our

Sarah McArthur: 00:32:08

life's work. Which is our love. made

Janice Porter: 00:32:14

visible. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you

Janice Porter: 00:32:17

so much for being here. Sarah, there's so much to to dive into

Janice Porter: 00:32:21

more. So I look forward to having you back and seeing the

Janice Porter: 00:32:25

documentary when, when it when it airs. Thank you again for

Janice Porter: 00:32:30

being here. And thank you to my audience. If you like what you

Janice Porter: 00:32:33

heard, please leave a review and go I do encourage you to go and

Janice Porter: 00:32:38

and and dig in and find out some information about Sarah McArthur

Janice Porter: 00:32:43

and Francis hasslein. Because this is going to be defining

Janice Porter: 00:32:47

moments is the name of the the documentary that's coming out.

Janice Porter: 00:32:51

And she was quite some lady. I'll tell you that was quite

Janice Porter: 00:32:55

interesting. So I'm excited for you. So remember to everybody

Janice Porter: 00:32:58

here to stay connected and be remembered