Why Is Talking About Money Harder Than Talking About Sex?!

00:00:14
Speaker 1: Hey, I do Part two.

00:00:15
Speaker 2: It's your host, Cheryl Burke, and I'm joined by one of my favorite Chapter two gals. It's Joan Vosso's from The Golden Bachelorette.

00:00:23
Speaker 1: Hey, Joan, Hi, how are you.

00:00:25
Speaker 3: It's been a long time, A.

00:00:26
Speaker 1: Great It's been a while.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: I've been following you on Instagram, so I know every day about your life. I'm exactly Today we're talking about one of the hardest topics in any relationship. And no it's not sex. Unfortunately, we're talking money. Our guest today is the host of the Financial Tea podcast and her new book Future Rich Person, The New Rules for Building Wealth Even if You're stuck, Broke and that Billionaire Won't Text you back, is out May twelfth. That's a long title but means so much. Please welcome Haley Sachs aka Missus dow Jo. Okay, so, tell us about your financial literacy. Did you were you raised by parents who were really good at, you know, investing their money?

00:01:08
Speaker 1: How did you become so great at what you do? I guess today.

00:01:13
Speaker 4: I definitely did not grow up with parents who pushed financial literacy in the household. I grew up with what I call a w SF a Wall Street father. So ID like to say that, I'm like, if Lebron James's daughter couldn't shoot a free throw, he never brought it home with him. And so I grew up like really confused about money, sort of avoiding it, thinking that it wasn't for me, that maybe I lacked this chip inside of me that would make it possible for me to manage finances, and so basically avoided it at all costs.

00:01:55
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I'm sure I can relate, but I did. I was raised with parents who were very like a stingy you know, with money.

00:02:05
Speaker 1: But I feel like we have so much to talk about. We have so much to talk about.

00:02:09
Speaker 2: So this podcast is I do part two obviously, and a lot of our listeners are learning basically just how to handle money matters in general, just better the second time around. What is would you say, the number one financial mistake you see most married couples make that can just fast track towards divorce.

00:02:31
Speaker 4: You know, it really starts, Cheryl, before people get married. And I see so many couples because I mean, marriage is a legal contract at the end of the day, Like that's what it really should be viewed as. And I just see so many couples sign that contract without knowing much about the other person's finances, about how much depth they have about their relationship with money, about you know, how much they make, how much debt, like just all these really important questions people avoid because they think it's awkward and they want to walk down the aisle. And sometimes we get so focused on reaching that finish line, which I feel like society really does put marriage as like for women, especially this finish line. We got to get there and what it's right within your grasp. You can sort of fool yourself into making a bad decision.

00:03:33
Speaker 2: Right Joan, tell me about you. I mean, I mean I know you, but our listeners.

00:03:39
Speaker 1: You know you're you're a widow.

00:03:41
Speaker 2: Share your experience, I guess with just taking control of just all the finances after your husband passed.

00:03:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was kind of crazy, to be honest. I didn't know what the heck I was doing and that was back of that and I go, gosh, how irresponsible to not ever like dive into that part of our marriage. But he was really good at it. He was the breadwinner. I was a stay at home mom for most of our marriage. I worked part time here and there, consulting, doing things. But he was the money manager and I did not worry about it. And then he passed away, and I didn't prepare myself as he was dying. You know, he had pancreatic cancer. He lived for almost two years with that. If I look back at it, I probably should have been more aware, but I was like in caregiver mode. I wasn't in let me, what am I going to do after he passes away. I was planning on him living, so when it happened, I was kind of blindsided, to be honest, And I'm a smart woman. I have a degree in computer science, I had gone back to school, I had gotten another degree in interior design and was planning on starting a business right after my last kid. He was a senior in college when I was doing this, and then John passed away, and then all of a sudden, my life had changed. And I remember one like really big wake up call. I had a lot, but one like really struck me, and that was American Express. Of all things, you know, we all counted credit cards. They're always there for us. And I went to use my American Express card and it had been canceled and It wasn't because of unpaid bills. It was for no other reason that I wasn't the primary card holder and he had passed away, and somehow they figured that out and they canceled my card. And we had been cardholders. We had a huge limit. My husband made a good amount of money, and it was never a question. And then all of a sudden, I didn't have a credit card. It was the craziest thing, and I didn't know, so I applied. I then had to apply for the credit card, and I had like a you know, five thousand dollars limit or something. It was something like very kind of appalling, and I had to work way up to it. So I started out as like a like an infant, or like a college student, somebody who just came out into the working world. And I was fifty eight years old.

00:05:48
Speaker 4: It was crazy.

00:05:50
Speaker 3: A lot of other wake up calls, including like health insurance. So now we don't have a business. My husband's business folded after he passed away. I no longer have a health insurance.

00:05:59
Speaker 4: You know.

00:05:59
Speaker 3: I was starting like a child, like a person coming out of college. I was starting to know, and I figured I had to figure it all.

00:06:06
Speaker 4: I had no choice.

00:06:07
Speaker 1: I had to figure it out, and how how did you do?

00:06:10
Speaker 2: Who did you turn to or did you have a business advisor or did you turn to any anyone?

00:06:15
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I didn't have the problem that I didn't have money. My husband had life insurance, so I had money. I just didn't know how to use it. And I didn't know how to use it smartly, Like I didn't know what I should be, you know, investigating. I didn't know. I was like, I need health insurance, Like how do I go about doing that? As a person I no longer has a business to rely on. Never had that problem before. You know, I needed a credit card. I needed I needed to buy a house by the way, right right right When John got sick, we moved to a townhouse that I rented because I needed an elevator for him. He couldn't go up and downstairs. So I was renting a home. And now all of a sudden, I have to buy a house and I have no credit so crazy stuff. It's not that I didn't have money.

00:06:56
Speaker 4: I had money in the bank.

00:06:57
Speaker 1: I had five million dollars of course, right right right.

00:07:00
Speaker 3: And you can't They don't care if you have money to make They care, if you have a credit score, if you can pay a mortgage.

00:07:06
Speaker 2: Do you run into this a lot, Haley, Like, have you seen this type of scenario?

00:07:09
Speaker 1: This is the common thing. What can people do?

00:07:12
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean it's so interesting because I feel like a question that I get asked a lot. It's pretty generic, but it's like who's your work for? And I feel like they want me to be like, you know, twenty to thirty year olds like you know, But the truth is that the women that I love helping the most are the ones just like you, Joan, who are starting over and like, those are the stories that mean the most to me and that I get a lot of and look like I'm a bit younger than you. Like, even in that generational shift, the women have taken so much more control of their finances. But we have to remember that, you know, we weren't even allowed to have credit cards till nineteen seventy four. Like really, in order to have any upward mobility, you had to marry a man, and you basically went from belonging to your parents to them belonging to someone else. And it was quite the norm to you know, be passive about finances. But yeah, I hear this. You know, what I'm really hearing is that you had a money aha moment, which is something that I talk about in the book, and that could happen to someone. It happened to me in my twenties, but it could also happen when you're fifty eight and your husband passes away, which I'm so sorry, but it's like, you know, whenever that happens, the most important thing, And it sounds like you did this is to hit it head on. But I would say, like to anyone listening, if you're in a relationship and you are in the dark about your finances, a it's very important to have a plan about what happens when your spouse dies. And it's not a sexy thing to think about. But I actually have a resource called the Seven Documents that you Need in Case You Die that you get when you pre order the book, and it has all this information. And I feel like no one just ever says to you, like, hey, Joan, like here's what you need. You need a pod for so you can get access to the bank account. You need a todd so you can get access to the UH, to the investment accounts, you need a will do you have, Do you need a trust like, you know, you need to make sure that you're even things like digital responsibility, Like there's a feature on the iPhone that lets you have access to someone's digital life if they pass away, which is like I have a French like who's going through that right now? And it's really hard to like track down everything digitally from the person who's who passed away. But it's like, you know, there's a lot of logistics with death, and you were in a great a really uh, you were in a position that I think a lot of people would wish for, which was that you had money. But what happens with a lot of people is that they don't know what's going on, and then they're not only are they grieving, but they're also dealing with the fact that they have a lot less than they have or expected, and they're also having to you know, come to terms with that reality.

00:10:16
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, surprisingly, like it sounds like I had like a good amount of money obviously did, but I actually went back to work because I felt like I didn't have enough, and I also wanted access to healthcare when you're fifty eight like important, and you know, it's like a sad reality, because that's when you're going to start needing it, and certainly my husband did. And so I went and got a job because I thought, well, I don't want to have to just rely on this income that I have, like this investment income. I need to be more proactive about my future. Only fifty eight and this needs to ask me a really freaking long time. I'm hoping.

00:10:50
Speaker 1: I love that.

00:10:50
Speaker 2: I love that about you. You just life has just started. You know, there really is no it's not too late for anything.

00:10:58
Speaker 3: It's really not too late. And I mean to enjoy you know, you you work your whole life. So so my husband and I worked our whole life. We raised our four kids. We have our last kid in college, and like the goal is, like you have resources now you've worked, you've built this life together, and you're going to like travel and by the second house and do all these things. And then all of a sudden he was gone, and all of the stuff that we saved for now was now just going to have to keep me alive, you know, keep me. He was going to continue working, so we were going to have all these great resources. Now, like that income, like the income sort of stopped and now I had to plan for this fixed amount of income that I had never done before.

00:11:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, the dream huge yep.

00:11:39
Speaker 1: Thanks for sharing back to you, Haley.

00:11:43
Speaker 2: Before marrying somebody, what should every couple you think like experience. Should there be a five year plan? Should there be a retirement plan? Should there be a joint accounts?

00:11:53
Speaker 4: So I really believe in having a joint account but also having individuals accounts because I just think that it's so important to be able to leave if you need to, even if it's like your dream relationship. Like I share a story in the book of someone who was in a relationship that she thought was her forever and then it really took a turn, and because she had that money on the side versus doubling down on the funds that they had together, she was able to basically save her own life and get what she called a freedom apartment. And so for me, I also like, I make my own money, and I really like making my own money, and so I think that like I would just never want to be in a position where I had to ask anyone or justify any of my purchases because it's like, I work hard, I make good money, Like I don't want to have to ask for that. But I do think that like when your life becomes entingled with someone, you need to treat it like a business. So it really is about setting up a structure. So what does that mean. It means a you're having money dates. Money is a relationship, and just like any relationship, if you don't spend time with it, then it's never going to blossom. It's never going to get deeper, it's never it's actually going to get worse. Relationship's got a lot worse if you're never together, And so you need to do that with your partner. But I also think there's something so amazing about having a partner financially because it gives you someone to build with and dream with, and not that you can't do that on your own, but I think that like it doesn't have to be something that makes your life smaller. It can actually be something that brings you so much wealth and like helps you expand your financial horizons. But like you need to normalize talking about money and make it something that you do together even when you don't want to.

00:13:45
Speaker 3: Kind Of how soon into a relationship do you think is a good time to have those conversations, because they're super uncomfortable. I mean, if you think about, like why is it easier to talk about sex and it is to talk about money in a relationship. I mean it's it's difficult. I still have a hard time talking to talk about it.

00:14:00
Speaker 4: I'm engaged. Wow, Okay, love that, congratulations, thank you. You know, I'd say the right time is usually when you're at one of those crossroads, like you know, you get to the point where it's like you're going to move in together, you're engaged, you're getting a dog, like where things get a little bit more complicated, you know. And but the thing is is like whenever you tie your finances to someone, like even if you're not married to someone, but say you're dating them seriously, and so you guys are like, okay, like we should get a credit card together because like then we can you know, use the bonuses to travel and we're always going to dinner together and like this makes sense we have shared expenses. But it's like when you do that, then say that person defaults on the credit card, it's on you. So you never you always at the end of the day go into this life and we leave with one person and it's ourself and a lot of people get confused in relationships and lose that plot, and so you know, nothing is forever, but also exactly nothing forever. Statistically, women outlive men, so it's like, you know, most women are going to go through some version of what Joan did, where it's like, you know, you have to deal with the consequences of what you've been avoiding.

00:15:13
Speaker 1: That's the key.

00:15:13
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to deal with it at some point, so you should really start to think about it.

00:15:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, deal with it throughout.

00:15:21
Speaker 3: Sure, it happened to you the way that you were agreeing with what you were saying.

00:15:26
Speaker 4: No experience with.

00:15:28
Speaker 2: This, I mean no, not not to that extent. I mean, when I was married, we kept everything separate for the most part, right, So we did start something, but it was like, you know, I wasn't married for very long as you know, so that didn't really mean anything to be quite honest. But yeah, everything was pretty much separate. And I mean, yeah, that's all I could say. And that was intentional.

00:15:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, maybe there was like a part of you that knew it wasn't forever too.

00:16:00
Speaker 1: It's my parents.

00:16:02
Speaker 2: My mom is like, she's a businesswoman, so she instilled all of this in me. And she was raised very very poor in the Philippines and created a business and a life for herself on her own and was raising me as a single parent. And so she has lived every part of life from not having food to you know, obviously now very wealthy.

00:16:25
Speaker 1: But that took a lot of work.

00:16:27
Speaker 2: And the one thing that she's always instilled in me since this little girl is just don't ever depend on a man for money period.

00:16:33
Speaker 3: M I feel like we're talking about we have like such good conversations about single women and people that have, you know, starting their dating careers together. I am in the chapter of life where like you, you know, maybe have lost a spouse or maybe you're divorced and you're going on too, like your chapter two. And I have a scenario because I certainly have friends that are like kind of dating men and they're in their second chapter of life. What if you're a dating man and he is in after two and he's always had a great career, but his ex wife took him to the cleaners in their divorce and now he's back at square one and has wrapped up a bunch of credit card debt. And if you were to make and if you were to make things more serious, would you have to take on his debt? How does that work if you marry him? Yeah, if you marry him.

00:17:23
Speaker 1: It depends what state.

00:17:28
Speaker 4: It depends on what state. But to me, that sounds like a guy with money trauma.

00:17:33
Speaker 1: That sounds like you should run for the hills.

00:17:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, and someone, yeah, someone, I sort of agree because it's like it's just the way that it was worded. It feels like someone who's looking at women as a villain and it's going to maybe want to like get revenge on women just in general from what they went through, versus really wants to build like out of a place of integrity.

00:18:10
Speaker 2: Let's talk about money trauma, because it is an actual thing. I mean, it's not just it's we're not just throwing that phrase around, right like, because it is like you can live in scarcity like my mom did, and my mom, I have to say, still does, because she will always feel like she's poor no matter what. Right, Like she will walk by a penny and she will literally pick it up because every penny counts, you know, and like that's just and she's getting older, you know, it's like she's turning even worse into that you know.

00:18:39
Speaker 1: So how can you break that trauma? How can you do that?

00:18:44
Speaker 3: If you like however, like if you were raised with frugal parents, if you're raised with.

00:18:49
Speaker 2: This generational trauma, right, Like it's more psychological, it's like you know psychology, but have you experienced this Hailey?

00:18:56
Speaker 4: Yeah? So Actually in my book Future Rich Person, I start the book. The first part of the book there's four parts, is mindset, and it's called Part one. Face it. Because I can teach you anything about money. I can teach you about index funds, about emergency funds, about debt payoff, about investing, but none of what I say is going to stick if we do not identify and fix and work through why and what is the root of your behavior? That is everything. That's what I always say. People say, oh, should I get a therapist or a financial planner, and I say therapists, go to the therapist first, work through it, because you know your behavior is going to keep reflecting your self identity. So you need to shift your self identity to be a future rich person if you want to actually take control of your financial life.

00:20:00
Speaker 2: And first you have to heal, right, you have to identify your triggers.

00:20:05
Speaker 4: You have to calm down in the moment. So much of financial like so many financial issues are just I think from like lack of emotional regulation. There's a lot that you need to sort of work through. Uh. It's not that it's impossible, but it's sort of the same for anything like, say you're in bad relationships and you want to get in a good relationship, You'll have to work through the trauma of your past relationships. Say you want to like fix relationship with food. It's not just like going on a diet. Everything everything, everything is you have to get down to the root and take responsibility for yourself.

00:20:45
Speaker 2: Hmm.

00:20:45
Speaker 3: I love how the book you read late you talk about your own experiences like so freely and openly, and it kind of like we gain your trust as we read your book. I spent a lot of my weekend reading your book.

00:20:56
Speaker 4: And I love that it's fun to read right Like it's like you actually.

00:21:01
Speaker 3: So, I took all kinds of pictures on my phone. I can't read them right now about like like passages that I love that I wanted to like tell my daughter about, and now they really is good.

00:21:11
Speaker 4: You're taught.

00:21:11
Speaker 3: I feel like you were talking to a friend and I felt like I related, like I knew all those people you were talking about, Like you, you know, you'll give some quotes about or a conversation you had with somebody and you say you and then her, and then you and then her, and I feel like, I'm like, I know that conversation I had that with my daughter. You talked about you know that you didn't feel like you were going to be good at this because you're not a type A personality. Yeah, you have these friends that were type A and they were organized, and you were the person who's going to the bar with your passport because you couldn't find your driver's license.

00:21:39
Speaker 4: And I'm oh, my god.

00:21:40
Speaker 3: I called my daughter. I'm like, oh, I just met your like twin. My daughter still doesn't and hasn't for like three years to go to ours. So I felt like to everybody. So I'm just like giving you a plug for your book. It was just so much fun to read. You sprinkled in all this great advice and it was almost like you were giving therapy and financial device mixed in with a bunch of really funny stories.

00:22:04
Speaker 4: I really love that you're giving me so many chills. It's like so weird to have the book like being read now, but it's that's exactly what I wanted it to be. Like was where it's like a brownie with spinach in it, where it's kind of yeah, like it's the kind of book that you actually because how many times do we buy a finance book or like a self help book and it's like we never actually crack it because it's like fun. Yeah, it's like I it feels like self punishment to do it, and it's like, I what has made the biggest difference for me? And I would say this, like about changing anything in my life is when I'm able to find a way to make the change enjoyable. And I think that like with finances, yes, there's going to be an element of cutting back and of like choosing your heart when you really want to improve your financial life, but there's also so much possibility. And I think especially for you know your audience, people who are really looking to start over and you are both great examples of this, like just the abundance of opportunity and how surprising life can be and how much you can actually shift things and that they are in your control. And like that's why I talk a lot in the book about learned financial helplessness, because especially right now, like economically, you know, the housing market is so messed up, the student loans are so high. Since twenty twenty, wages have increased seven percent, but inflation has increased sixty seven percent. Like there's so many reasons why not. But the ones who win are the ones who understand that the game was not built for everyone to win. It was actually built by the people who are winning to keep ring. But when you learn the rules, which is why I wrote the New Rules of Building Wealth, then you too have the opportunity to get a seat at the table, no matter where you're starting from.

00:23:55
Speaker 3: I would love that figure out how you figured all this out. You don't have a background in it. You were in media, You had a really cool career that wasn't making you any money, and you looked at your life and you're like, Okay, this isn't working. How the heck do you start this career?

00:24:11
Speaker 4: How do you become you?

00:24:13
Speaker 3: Because it seems like such an aspiration that most of us could never even think about.

00:24:18
Speaker 4: It's so funny. It's like the I would when I started influencing was not a thing, and so like everyding, and.

00:24:28
Speaker 1: I think that both of us. Yeah, I can say the thing.

00:24:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so it's it came from a place of like where I'm patient zero and I needed to help myself and so and I thought in my head, oh okay, there's definitely other people that feel like this, and I wanted to make a difference. But like it really I think that when you create something from your like deepest wound, that's where the magic really comes from. And so like that's how it all happen. But I also think that, like, you know, thank god I never worked in finance, like they think all that. It's like that I that I that I have the career before this that I did, because doesn't that just prove that anyone can do it? Like that's sort of what I try to get across in the book too, where it's like, yeah, I am the girl with the password at the bar. I'm not walking on an incline with my like meal prepped chicken and hair washing schedule. Like I was on a date last week and my haircut on fire, like and I've run a multimillion dollar business.

00:25:29
Speaker 1: Girls, Like it's like, how did that happen?

00:25:31
Speaker 4: Oh? I mean we were leaving over to kiss. There was a little candle. It was I've got extensions.

00:25:37
Speaker 1: In that's not a sign. I don't know what it is.

00:25:41
Speaker 3: That is so funny. I love to see now her book is sprinkled through through the whole thing with these stories like her adderall addiction like I love. I wouldn't be surprised that was vodka right there. I mean, I know it looked like that.

00:25:52
Speaker 1: Actually, take a swig. It's past five o'clock, right I know.

00:25:57
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm drinking vodka right now. I'm drinking like thirteen dollars water from me.

00:26:01
Speaker 1: I was like, you're just killing it. That takes or at least my mind. I don't know.

00:26:05
Speaker 3: But you're just so relatable that nobody like you don't intimidate us. I don't feel like you have this Harvard degree and you're telling us how to do it in a way that none of us could do it. You are the one that's drinking the vodka in the podcast.

00:26:16
Speaker 1: I'm not drink I'm drinking of water.

00:26:20
Speaker 4: But I I but I next time I see you will have a martini. But I but I you know, I love a martini. But I do feel like that that there's you know, there's a lot of financial experts out there that make you feel like you have to be a certain way in order to do this, and it's important for me to be like, no, you just have to be you and like it's actually you don't even you just need systems. Like That's the biggest thing too that I talk about in the book that's been the biggest reason that I've become a millionaire is like automation and you know, also forcing myself sometimes to do shit I don't want to do. Like I say in the book, I have a money date every month. It's really important. I never want to do it. I never want to do it. I forced myself to do it. But then once I do it, I'm fine. It works.

00:27:02
Speaker 1: It's not a money date, so it's a threat time.

00:27:05
Speaker 4: So money is a relationship. If you don't spend time, you know, with someone or something in a relationship, their relationship is going to go to shit. But most people manage their money off of vibes, like they're avoiding their bank statements. They don't look at their credit card bills. They're sort of just like you know, grin and bearing it and swiping it and hoping for the best. They're forgetting about packages that they need to return. There, you know, they have subscriptions they didn't cancel. They're not on top of it.

00:27:32
Speaker 1: Descriptions.

00:27:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it just feels so overwhelming. And I think that it's it is every day something that will weigh on you. So you need to create a system where you have the time set to take care of it, so then you give yourself the freedom and the energy to live your life without that weighing you down. Like it's actually the way to live a better life. And so yeah, it's just set time every month that I review my finances, that I take care of all this great finance. Yeah, I open my mail, Like all the shit that I don't want to do happens then. And once I'm doing it, you can make yourself do anything. And you start and you're going and it's not that bad.

00:28:10
Speaker 1: But it's like not that scary. I think people are just scared.

00:28:13
Speaker 4: Oh my god, it's not scary at all. And what you realize also too, Like I think that's what's so interesting about this whole idea of like financial dependency for women is like actually, like the most feminine cool thing is the being in control of your finances and having like the power to choose your own life, like being able to like make your own decisions, to say no to shit that doesn't serve you, to buy yourself what you.

00:28:38
Speaker 1: Want, to walk away, if you need to walk away, you have to.

00:28:41
Speaker 4: Take to travel to like take care of the people that you love. Like this is you're the first generations of women who even had that opportunity. And it's like, I take it so seriously for us to take advantage of that and to embrace it, because you know, the patriarchy doesn't want us to be in control of our finances because it keeps us dependent.

00:29:00
Speaker 2: And if a man feels emasculated because of it, that's not your problem, that's his problem. You know.

00:29:06
Speaker 3: It's funny. I had that conversation with one of my first dates with so Chalka as the person I met on my season of The Golden Bacherette Haley Case who don't know and so he was on one of our first dates on TV on camera. I made a statement about like being financially secure, and I think I mentioned a number to him, and later on in our after we were engaged, he said, why did you tell me about that. Why did you mention that, Like on one of our first days, I said, because I wanted you to know that I didn't need your money and that I wasn't in this for money. And I just put that out right away, and let's just move on from that, because I never ever want to be dependent on a man. I had that I was married, and now I'm financially independent, and it feels really good to know that I can get my own American Express now, even though I'm afraid to open the statement up. Pretty much every month that it comes, it sets on my counter like five days. But I know that I.

00:29:58
Speaker 4: Got the app, girl, and then it you have the app and it's in your like digital wallet. It makes it so much easier. But like it's why is it so scary, Like it's like you you're a smart girl, Like it's like this is seventh grade math. Like we have been so conditioned, we have been so brainwashed. It is not that hard. It's not that scary. Put on a song you like, you can drink your vodka to the bottle, whatever takes to get there, do it. Because I think.

00:30:26
Speaker 2: What's scary though, in Jones defense, is like it's just like you know I like to buy stuff.

00:30:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, tell me about it. I bought all of Sephora during this Sephorest savings event. Just this best.

00:30:36
Speaker 4: You know, it's not so funny the Sephort savings event and everyone is like.

00:30:40
Speaker 1: Well, it's not even that much you're saving.

00:30:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something about investment options quickly are luxury goods ever a good idea like Bronzer versus Eschanel bag.

00:30:53
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I like I could.

00:30:55
Speaker 4: We fell for the all the Burken stuff?

00:30:59
Speaker 1: Oh I haven't. I haven't done that one yet. I haven't gotten there. I've invested in that.

00:31:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's they're not in Look here's the thing, Like I sell it. No, So here's my issue with it is there's a lot of like media hype around burkins being as good of an investment as the stock market.

00:31:21
Speaker 1: Oh my god, really yeah.

00:31:22
Speaker 4: Oh my god. It's everywhere where they're like the Birkins will beat the S and P five hundred. And the truth is it's like if you're getting the like Lauren Sanchez special where it's like the most rare ass burkein in Paris and you're like never act actually wearing it and it's hermetically sealed and then you resell it and there's like three of them in the world. Great, you're gonna make a huge return because.

00:31:45
Speaker 1: You sell it.

00:31:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, but also any good that is in demand, that is so scarce and in great condition, is going to hold its value or increase. But the Burkean resale market is flooded with inventory, and you will make some of your money back, for sure, But it's not an investment. And I think that it's crazy to have normalized twenty five thousand dollars handbags as this like savvy financial choice, when really that's a fashion choice. And I love fashion, don't get me wrong, but it's it's how you view it. If you're getting a burkin because you love it, it's cute, you want to wear it. Great, but it's not. None of these bags are investment pieces. They will maybe hold some of their value, but it's like you're maybe going to hold like fifty percent of the value. I mean, I am very clued into the luxury resale market. I used to flip a lot of bags and like, it's.

00:32:41
Speaker 1: A hole bags, what do you mean, Oh my gosh.

00:32:44
Speaker 4: I would go to Japan, I would go to Paris, I would buy rare bags and then I would well, this would be like if the dollar was really strong in Paris, and I would go and find vintage Chanel bags or whatever, and then I would bring them back. It's like fun, so fun, and I love wearing them. Like it's like I have a fabulous bag collection, and like that's like something that's just like is fun in my life. But it's not something that I look to as a way that I'm building wealth for my future. That's what my stock portfolio is for. So I don't think it's kind of like girl math, Like we don't need to fool ourselves. If we want to get a bag and we can afford the bag, get the bag and.

00:33:17
Speaker 1: Enjoy the bag. Yeah, No need to justify it.

00:33:20
Speaker 4: No, No, I don't need to justify it. Some things are just frivolous fun and like I'm I fall for like all the girl stuff, Like you know, I like to get my nails done, I like makeup, I like my hair, I like clothes. Like it's all a pink tax and I don't know, it makes me feel good, it makes me feel calm.

00:33:36
Speaker 1: You can write it off great, yeah, and I write off a lot of it.

00:33:39
Speaker 2: Exactly So how about like vintage cars, like if you were I'm aging myself at ja leto, you know.

00:33:58
Speaker 4: It depends on the car. Yeah, It's like, you know, watches can actually be a really good.

00:34:03
Speaker 1: Eend Yeah, right, like a Rolex.

00:34:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, or you know, like a you know what.

00:34:08
Speaker 2: Actually, no, my father passed away and he had a few Roles watches, and honestly I didn't even end up selling it because they were giving offering for it.

00:34:18
Speaker 4: So I think it all depends on the asset and true, but you know, the best place to put your money is in the stock market, and like trying to get rich quick in all these other ways is just going to be something that ultimately prevents you from investing to your full ability.

00:34:42
Speaker 3: So can we talk to about something like totally less glamorous? But I know that a lot of listeners are single moms, and right, I mean, how can you remove the overwhelming feeling of saving for your future and your kid's future if you only have one income? It sounds impossible, that's really hard.

00:35:04
Speaker 4: But what I will say is like you have to put your own oxygen mask on first, because kids can take out loans for school, but you cannot take out loans for retirement, and so it's like, you know, sounds awesome to you know, give your kid everything that they want and all these things, but a financial boundaries are so important for children. Teaching them the value of a dollar, showing them what you're working for, and including them in that process I think is like so inspiring. But also, don't prioritize their future over yours, because then you also perpetuate a cycle of in like a family money cycle, where then they will have to do that with their kids because they won't have retirement funds and then they'll have to rely on their kids for it, you know what I mean.

00:35:56
Speaker 1: So break the cycle now, Yeah, break the cycle.

00:35:58
Speaker 4: Now.

00:36:00
Speaker 1: You're said than done? Though, isn't it so.

00:36:02
Speaker 4: Much easier said than done? I think it really depends on your community too. Yeah, it's really hard if you're in, you know, a neighborhood where people are in a different socio economic venue, because then it like puts so much pressure on what's normal. But you know, single moms like that is truly they are doing God's work. Like that is such a hard position to be in. And I just think, like, yeah, you've already given up so much to take care of that child, like, don't give up your future too, you know, And by just taking care of them and getting them out the door and like literally like like that's giving them a huge lag up from everyone else.

00:36:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, and preparing them maybe go to college and then they break the cycle themselves. They go and get a great education and can support themselves. And you're good thinking about being a mom. And I have four kids, they're all grown. I actually got them credit cards, but I know that people talk about getting your kids a credit card so they can start building well some you know, things that I ended up not having. I didn't have any credit and so like do you recommend that or when do you recommend it?

00:37:17
Speaker 4: At? What age it?

00:37:18
Speaker 3: Like what is the scenario that that is good?

00:37:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, so what you're you know, it's so interesting that you asked that, Joone, because like you obviously were someone who really got the short end of the stick for not having a credit history, so you understand firsthand how important it is to really build that credit at a young age. And so what you're talking about is adding someone who's under eighteen to your card as an authorized user. And for many credit cards, they have a limit that you could only do this when the child is sixteen, but there are some cards where you can do it when the child is much younger. And it doesn't mean that you have to give your child that card to use. You could put like your Netflix subscription on it and put it on auto pay and stick it in a drawer and they never need to know about it. But it will begin to build their credit histories. Then they could get instead of getting a starter card, they could get a rewards card. Or if they need to rent their first apartment, they'll be able to do it. Like it just gives them, you know, they need to get a loan for a car, they're going to get a better rate, Like it gives them a little credit score is basically your financial GPA. So it's like it's your score. It's like it tells lenders how trustworthy you are with money. So like for you, Joan, when you didn't have a credit history, they were like, fuck, no, I'm not giving that girl a mortgage, like she has no there's no one can attest that she's going to pay it back. I got to staying hell out of Dodge, you know, so we need it's like a track record that shows like okay, you're someone who it's good for the banks or whoever's on me the money to do business with. And so yeah, you can absolutely set your kids up with a car, and I think that's an excellent idea. There's also a lot of other great hacks in the book how to Build Generational Wealth, because you know, if you do have even like one hundred dollars a month to put towards your children to their future, I mean, like I said, you have to put your own mask on first, but that little you know, one hundred dollars could fifty dollars over time with compound interests can grow so exponentially. So this is where I'm saying, it's so much about understanding how things work versus even having so much money or like, you know, any sort of other sophistication, Like we just live in a system where it's never taught. And so that's why the book is so powerful, because it gives you these cheat codes that you know, you can use to really get ahead in life and to put your children ahead too.

00:39:44
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, can I ask you a question. I know that you have kind of indicated that the stock market is gives you the best ROI I know in your book, you talked about really basic things like making sure that you have a savings account that is or a bank account that is not charging you all kinds of fees, and then having a savings account so you actually earned some interest on the money you have in the bank, and a decent one, not one that is giving you like a point oh four percent.

00:40:10
Speaker 1: Return or whatever.

00:40:12
Speaker 3: But I have a question about investing. Okay, so let's say that you want to invest in the stock market. I'm already in it. I'm asking this as a general question because I have like a stockbroker, but like what kind of fees should you expect? What ones are reasonable? Like you talked about this in banking, but I maybe I haven't gotten to that point in the book yet. But do you ever talk about it when it comes to investing in the stock market? What is reasonable? What are the reasonable fees to pay?

00:40:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's such a good question, Joan, because it's like fees really are the killer of profit, and people don't understand usually their fees with these advisors. And so what I talk about in the book is how there's two kinds of two different fee structures with financial advisors. So one is a percentage of what your earning. And then the other is hourly and I think for most people an hourly uh sort of just planner is really all that you need because you can do it on your own. But sometimes it's nights to have someone like tell, you know, set out the plan for you. Maybe you want you want something that's like a bit more in depth, but then you're able to go and like make those decisions on your own. But you know, fees can get crazy, like I've seen like and that when you look at it over ten twenty years, it's like it could be tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit easily. Really look for like one percent.

00:41:40
Speaker 1: Now, how about for those who are in like the entertainment.

00:41:44
Speaker 2: World where you have business managers and you know, like at the end of the day, I don't do taxes and I never plan on doing them in that sense.

00:41:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean me too, I have a I have an accountant for sure, and they they're so like they help me optimize so much because that's like being a business owner. And also that's the other thing in the book is like I really break down how to start your own business because like we are the biggest generation of business owners, and no one sits us down and says, hey, here's what s CORP is, Here's what LLC is, here's why right right, here's what you put away for taxes.

00:42:22
Speaker 2: But I mean, mind you, this is not just an entertainment industry. My parents have one like it. It's like, you know, you do get help, Yeah.

00:42:29
Speaker 4: You get help. But I'm saying like the actual structure of like a like a business, Like we all romanticize, oh, we're going to start a business, but it's like, no one actually ever tells you here, do it in the best way. So that was so important for me to include because the majority of people who read this, I feel like are not majority, but like a good amount are going to not be working in corporate but actually be working for themselves. But you know, like fifteen percent.

00:42:53
Speaker 1: I would say is normal.

00:42:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say fifteen, maybe twenty, But like, ye.

00:43:03
Speaker 3: Don't be paying marty mm hmmm, yeah, I mean I think people would not.

00:43:07
Speaker 4: I woant to pay over twenty to be honest, like I would like for me, I'm paying fifteen to my business manager, but he's sort of like my business.

00:43:15
Speaker 1: Partner, so it feels right, of course you're still the CEO.

00:43:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I really believe also, like he worked so hard. I believe so deeply in paying people well, because like there's just such a bigger cost to having to replet someone than there is to uh making sure they stay. And so if I love working with someone like and they're doing a great job, like I just that's not something I will ever be stingy on, Like I just like my businesses has to be doing better than for me to be worrying about like giving you the raise that you deserve. That's not where I would ever cut costs.

00:43:49
Speaker 2: Haley, I can't leave this. It went really fast, this whole conversation. Thank you so much for your time. But I want to let's put the book again because I can't wait.

00:43:58
Speaker 1: To read it.

00:43:58
Speaker 4: You're gonna like it, Cheryl, I want will you DM me when you start reading it?

00:44:01
Speaker 1: Of course? Are you going to do an audible version?

00:44:04
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah. One thing I'll say about what's really cool for your audience is that if when you pre order the book, you get seven hundred dollars worth of freebies, So the book is like thirty dollars, but then you're getting all these extra guides, AI tools, generational wealth planners, credit card tool, like everything that you need to be a future rich person comes when you pre order, because I really wanted to make it like, you know, just so valuable for people. And so if you're listening and you're intrigued, definitely pre order. And you could pre order the audible, which is so helpful too, because and I read the whole thing. It's so fun. I'm a big audible girly too. But I will say there is something nice about getting the physical book and then sure highlight it and you can there's I have checklists at the end of each chapter of like the action steps that you should take, but audible as well, you'll get a PDAF.

00:45:03
Speaker 3: I love the Actually, I love how you like kind of organize the book chapter like I kind of know what I'm going to get at the end that I'm going to get the checklist, so if I'm not like and I'm reading it for pleasure, but then like you know, one in the end to have the kind of notes they're kind of at the end of each chapter. So it's really really good. You did a great job on this book, I have to say, because I am not one to read a finance book.

00:45:22
Speaker 2: I have to.

00:45:23
Speaker 4: It really means the world to me to hear you say that, Like again, I have chills. I'm such a loser. But like IM, that's what I like when I was reading, when I was writing it, a like that's what I wanted, Like I wanted to be like the person who's like I've never read one, like I don't know if I if this is for me, like like and just be like damn, I'm bodying this. I'm fun thing and it's fun and I'm learning and like that makes me really happy. So I'm so grateful they know this is your first book, my first book. I'm hoping it's I think it's like people are going to really like it, like it's yea and yeah, I think that will be something that you like past your friends, like it's I you know, because we need this. There's not financial advice out there in this way. And also, like I do believe like the caliber of the advice that I gave is so sophisticated, like it's so approachable, but it is the best advice out there. And that's that's why I've been in the game for so long, is because I'm so trusted in that way, like I've I don't want people down like it's always correct what I say. It's like I say in the book, I'm your financial dominatrix.

00:46:28
Speaker 3: And she goes on and on about that, which is really funny. It's there's like a whole like like sexual innuendo in the whole like that whole paragraph that is hilarious. I love that.

00:46:39
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like I try, I can trust you for sure. You're just straight to the point, and I like people like that. So where can people find you? You have a podcast. I started listening to it and I'm hooked so.

00:46:49
Speaker 4: Good Financial Tea. It's out every Thursday. If you want to preorder the book, go to missus dow Jones dot com slash book and you'll get all those freebies. And yeah, I'm on social media as missus dow Jones. I'm posting videos every day to help you get rich?

00:47:03
Speaker 2: Are you in chapter two and finding out it's a lot harder than you thought it would be. Well, we're here to help. Send us an email or leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials, I do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.