What Got You Here, Won't Get You There

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Find yourself in.

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I am Nola Simon, and this is the
Hope and Possibilities podcast.

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One concept that I'd like to talk
about is the whole theory of what

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got you here won't get you there.

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It actually comes from Marshall Goldsmith
and he may have been inspired by somebody

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else, but that's where I know it from.

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And so basically the concept is whatever
got you to whatever level of success you

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have currently isn't the thing that's
going to get you where you want to be.

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So often this comes up when people
get to a certain level in their career

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and then they move into leadership or
management, whatever got them to the

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peak level of success that got them.

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That promotion to leadership or management
is not the thing that's actually going to

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be make them successful in that new role.

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A lot of times individual contributors
have to actually let go of.

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The things that made them very successful
in that individual contributor role

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and step away from those skills and
abilities and prioritize other things.

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The attention to detail, the, maximization
of effort all of that isn't as

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needed in a leadership role because.

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You are paying attention to
different types of details.

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You're looking at things
from a different perspective.

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A lot of times you have to let people
figure things out themselves and

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you are not the person in control.

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But you have to.

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Strategically support.

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A lot of times parenting is the
best metaphor for leadership

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and management, right?

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Particularly management, you
are responsible for the overall.

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Success of the project, but you
are not the person doing the work.

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You're just accountable
for what's going on, right?

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So as a parent, you wanna make sure that
your kids are, healthy, they're fed,

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they're doing their homework, they're
safe, they're developing themselves.

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They're fed, they're clean, and.

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They're developing all kinds
of skills at different levels.

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They're making friends.

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They're supporting their emotional health,
their mental health, as well as their

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physical health at the end of the day.

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I remember saying this to my husband,
once your kids are alive, that's

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about all we can ask for today.

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They're fed, they're
healthy, nobody's dead.

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Yay me.

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My kids just turned 18 and 20, and
I perceive that to be my success.

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Everybody made it to adulthood.

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That's something my mother used
to say to me is the goal of

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a parent is to raise adults.

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So if you've raised adults as a
parent, you've achieved your goal.

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It's a long term project.

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So that's the sort of metaphor that I
applied to leadership and management

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is you are not the person in control.

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You're not living their
lives, but you are.

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Supporting them in their journey
to become independent adults.

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And a lot of times that's
the same as work, right?

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You are working on a project, but you
are not the person doing the work.

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You're just enabling, you're
facilitating the work to be done.

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You are moving.

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Obstacles out of the way.

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You're negotiating better circumstances
and resources for the team that will

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enable them to have success, right?

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So if you think about it it's a really
good metaphor for what's going on in

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the world of work right now, right?

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Nobody exactly knows how
AI is going to actually.

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Come in and change things,
whether it's going to be bad,

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whether it's gonna be good.

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We all have opinions on what that's
going to look like, but at the end

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of the day, if you are thinking about
it simply from a perspective of what

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got me here won't necessarily got,
get me there, that kind of narrows it

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down because AI didn't exist before.

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So it wasn't what got you
to this level of success.

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Success, so you have to consider.

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What's going to get me to where
I want to be in the future?

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It's not that your past success isn't
valuable, but legitimately it's not

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going to be the only thing that's going
to carry your career through to the next

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stage that you want to move towards.

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And I, I saw this actually even
when I was doing the deep research

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into Liam Payne in one direction.

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So Liam was always a strong singer.

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That was his main skill and ability.

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He was naturally gifted.

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He, even when they started, when
they were young teenagers, he

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was an incredible singer, but
he also brought this ability to.

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Melt and to fit in and cover
when other people weren't

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necessarily having the best vocals.

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So it made him actually ideal
within a group because he

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could sing almost anything.

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He had an extremely wide range.

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He could sing falsetto,
he could sing high notes.

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He could, but he could
also do really deep notes.

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And he had that mellow ability
to harmonize with anyone.

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And it really, in lots of ways,
he was the glue in the harmonies.

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The thing about Liam, he was also
very vocal and he was in lots

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of ways, especially early on,
the spokesperson for the group.

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If you watched lots and lots of
interviews, especially early on, Liam

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was often the person who spoke first,
who's often the person who's sang first.

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He took that level of
responsibility and initiative.

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And that carried him through an awful
lot of the group dynamic, but it actually

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became problematic later on because the
others grew in their skills and abilities

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and, the dynamics of the group changed.

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So they didn't necessarily need
Liam to be the leader in all aspects

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of how the group was performing.

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Both, in interviews and
professionally on the stage.

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So that ability of, adjusting what
got you here won't get you there.

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That's something I think
that Liam struggled with.

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If I was analyzing his career,
which I did, he very much,

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although he was very creative and
inventive and changed a lot of things

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because he could sing almost anything.

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He was very much into changing sound and
genre and experimenting in different ways.

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His playbook of how he conducted himself
stayed pretty similar all along the way.

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He, showed up.

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He was responsible.

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He, again, was very vocal.

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He voiced his opinions an awful lot.

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He did lots of interviews.

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He was very active on social media.

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I'm going to counter that, that actually,
especially when he carried that through

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into his solo career, that did not
work well for him because it made him

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a target in lots of ways, and there
was nobody else to actually balance.

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And I think that he might say so he was
incredibly available and I think that in

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retrospect, looking at how his life and
his career worked out, he would've been.

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Better May speaking less and
letting the music stand for itself

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because it did stand for itself.

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His solo work was actually incredible.

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Where he actually got into
some problems I think is.

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Because he said so much.

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There was so much to analyze.

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And the more you say, the more you make
yourself a target to certain people

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who have nothing better to do, but
except analyze everything that you say.

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So strategically, I think if he had
been able to adjust his playbook

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and how he interacted and how he
presented himself he would've had.

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A better experience now
would've, could've shoulda up.

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There's no way to know for sure.

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But that metaphor of, what got you there
won't necessarily get you there, I think

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really played out through it Liam's life.

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And there were other factors as
well, like tall Poppy syndrome.

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One Direction was incredibly successful
and Liam was a big part of that.

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But the way the world works in terms
of tall poppy syndrome is when people

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have that level of incredible success,
there's certain personalities in the

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world that want to take you down a peg.

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And the way that they do
that is to undermine your

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credibility and your success.

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And so Liam's often engaged in
defending what he had managed

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to do with One Direction and.

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That again is totally understandable,
but it was detrimental to him, right?

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So what I'd ask you to do is really
consider how this plays out in your life.

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You're not a pop star, you're not, selling
at the top 1% of the music industry,

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but it plays out in everybody's lives.

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How do you adjust and
adapt from what made you

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comfortable?

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What made you happy?

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What made you successful?

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However you define success, how
do you adapt and change that?

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So for example, I'm looking at
that with my work right now.

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I founded my consulting business
because I saw an opportunity.

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To talk about the way that I had
developed hybrid remote within my own

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career and adapted it so that I could
be a more present parent for my girls.

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My girls were what?

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Six and three when I first started
advocating for work from home because I

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really didn't have a whole lot of family
support or daycare reliable daycare.

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And so that's why I started advocating
for that flexibility because I

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had a four hour commute and I was
seeing my kids one hour a day.

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Now my kids are now 18 and 20.

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I don't need daycare.

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I haven't needed daycare
for a good 10 years.

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But they're also not
living at home, right?

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So I have to consider that,
although I may believe.

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And everything that I read and
research indicates to me that

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flexibility will be the future.

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It's better for caregivers.

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It's better for anybody who's disabled.

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It's better for integration
of work and life.

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It benefits.

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Everybody, even people who don't need
any type of accommodation in their

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lives because you just have more
freedom and autonomy to do the things

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that are more important in your life.

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And the businesses do
matter as well too, right?

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You don't have that fixed
capital cost associated with real

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estate if you can get that away.

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So automatically you have the
ability to redirect resources.

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To different areas of your business
that can help leverage your success.

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In terms of how I work, I've
always been the type of leader.

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Who teaches by role modeling?

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I have this thing about actual teaching.

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I never wanted to be a teacher.

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I took training courses and I realized
that I didn't actually want to teach or

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be involved in learning and development.

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It's not that those
things aren't good to do.

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I'm very glad that there are
people who can do them, but

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that's not the way that I.

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Communicate best.

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It's not the way that I inspire best.

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I am not very good at repetitive teaching.

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I'm not good at reinforcing messages.

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What I am good at is role modeling, right?

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So I see something that I think that
is valuable to do and I. Take my own

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advice, leverage it, and then share
what worked, what didn't work, what

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has a possibility of being tweaked.

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And then I go from there, right?

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And so that is really the way that
I. Developed my whole work from

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home when I was working corporate.

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But it's also how I developed
my business as well too.

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And so that's really how
I got media attention.

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That's really how I've
developed my podcast.

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It's that role modeling.

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So now that I don't actually need
to be present for my children,

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how does that change my work and
what do I want to role model?

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And how do I best share my skills
and abilities so that I am useful

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and sharing something that's going
to be inspiring both to myself and

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to the people that I work with.

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And I don't know that hybrid
remote is really where I need

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to be right at the moment.

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So I am thinking that I'm going to be
customizing how I do my consulting work.

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It's not that I'm going to abandon that.

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Right at the moment I've always
found that hybrid, like flexibility,

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hybrid, remote work from anywhere,
work from home, whatever you wanna

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call it goes in peaks and valleys.

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And when you've got a valley where
the economy is not doing well,

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where employers feel that they're
in control at its employer's

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market and they can operate from.

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A perspective of it's my way or
the highway, and they're using that

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fear to inspire and control their
workforces and flexibility is that.

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A minimum where they're trying to
go that route where they're actually

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impeding people from having that
flexibility and they're requesting

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and demanding and mandating that
people come back to the office.

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It's happening throughout Canada, the
big banks, insurance companies federal

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government, provincial governments.

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All of that is really
based on the fact that.

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A lot of these companies have
too many, too much staff.

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A lot of this, these companies,
especially government, have a lot

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of people with a lot of tenure.

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So that means severance
would be really expensive.

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And I'm not saying it's going for
everybody, but there's an instinct to

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try to mandate to bring people back
to the office to force a decision.

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Even if that's really early retirement.

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Maybe that's, I'm going to start my own
business so that I have the flexibility

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that I need because I create it.

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Or maybe that's I'm going to
accommodate this mandate because I

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have no choice, and see how that goes.

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So personally, I've been there.

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I a mandate in 2013 meant that
I had to go back to the office.

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I actually had to go back to the
office with a day's notice because

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they canceled the program and.

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I was on medical I had broken my foot
and so I really had to go back to

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the office because my medical leave
got canceled, and they basically

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said either I show up or I get fired.

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So with a day's notice, I had to go back.

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Which was awesome.

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So I've been there.

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You have no choice except to
comply with a mandate unless you

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actually want to lose your job.

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And without that mandate, I wouldn't
have actually started this work.

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So mandates, I don't respect
them, I don't believe in them.

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But if you are forced to comply with
one, what you have to look at is

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what are you gonna learn from the
experience and where can it lead you.

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So that's again, what got you there
to where you are right now won't

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necessarily be what gets you to where
you wanna be, but that path may not be

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what you expect it to be with everything
that's changing in the world of work.

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So the world is scary right now.

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There's lots of things going on that
nobody ever really planned for, expected.

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Even from a demographics
perspective, people are living

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longer, people are having fewer
babies, lots of things are changing.

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How do you plan for it?

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How do you adapt to it?

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What do you want your life to
be and what do you want your

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work to be to support that life?

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And that's really where you have to
get that clarity and that clarity may

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come as you work through this process.

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And that's what I'm doing
at the moment as well too.

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So I'd love to hear your perceptions about
what playbooks hold you back and what

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you think that you might have to drop in
order to be more successful in the future.

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And for me, I'm thinking I have
to move on from hybrid remote.

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So that opportunity may still
be something that I come back to

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because once the cycle changes and it
becomes more flexible again, which,

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honestly it did after my mandate.

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It was about a year where
we started to go back to it.

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But you have to repair broken trust.

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You have to assess, how policy works,
how those interactions work what the

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engagement level is, how you demonstrate
respect for people who made different

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choices throughout the whole mandate.

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There's a lot of repair work that might
have to do, and that can be interesting.

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So it may be that what I do is, I still
have it on the books, but it's more.

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Assess where you are, assess what's
working, what's not working, assess the

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impact on trust, leadership, management
and how that all combines with the changes

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that are being brought also by AI and
the different interactions of different

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generations within the workforce.

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Because we've got five different
generations who are working and often

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people are working longer and later.

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Than they ever have before.

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So all of that, it's like a tsunami
of change that's not gonna go away.

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That's maybe where, that's something
that I explore when people are in

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the mindset to walk away from that
control and really look at how you

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move forward with flexibility and.

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The same things that would've made
you a really good leader and manager

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during the pandemic, that knowledge
management, that trust all of that

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is gonna help you adapt to AI in the
future of work as well too, right?

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So it's seizing the opportunity that
you see to actually make an impact.

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And that's really what I'm
asking you to look at anyways.

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I'd love to hear from you.

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Thanks for joining.

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Bye.

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Find yourself in.