Strategic Foresight:

1
00:00:27,958 --> 00:00:28,903
I'm Nola Simon.

2
00:00:28,903 --> 00:00:32,144
I'm the host of the Hope
and Possibilities podcast.

3
00:00:32,643 --> 00:00:38,723
Today I wanna talk about foresight
and how futurism really plays

4
00:00:38,735 --> 00:00:45,961
into planning and strategy, but
it's not really what you think.

5
00:00:45,961 --> 00:00:48,443
I came across this quote
from Margaret Heffernan.

6
00:00:48,565 --> 00:00:55,910
She's a leadership expert I follow,
and she has this beautiful quote, "In

7
00:00:55,910 --> 00:01:00,998
an age of uncertainty where so much
is murky, planning becomes harder

8
00:01:00,998 --> 00:01:03,952
than ever, if not actually impossible.

9
00:01:04,277 --> 00:01:09,193
Flexibility, adaptability, and the
imagination to consider what could happen

10
00:01:09,333 --> 00:01:18,457
become vital skills." So when you come
into career development, this is more

11
00:01:18,457 --> 00:01:20,713
applicable than anything else, right?

12
00:01:20,792 --> 00:01:23,615
And it is a form of futurism.

13
00:01:24,077 --> 00:01:28,113
I maintain that career
development is a form of futurism.

14
00:01:28,925 --> 00:01:32,786
How do you make decisions when you
really don't know what the future is?

15
00:01:33,478 --> 00:01:40,614
How do you, Keep yourself open
to opportunity and develop.

16
00:01:40,961 --> 00:01:46,389
And it comes down really to
practicing flexibility and

17
00:01:46,391 --> 00:01:49,655
adaptability and how do you imagine?

18
00:01:49,711 --> 00:01:53,357
So what practices do you have in
place that really stimulate your

19
00:01:53,357 --> 00:01:55,373
imagination of what's possible?

20
00:01:56,161 --> 00:02:03,544
A lot of what I've done personally is
about tuning into what stimulates and

21
00:02:03,546 --> 00:02:11,179
supports my creativity what allows me
to know who I am, so what practices

22
00:02:11,198 --> 00:02:17,205
get me closer to understanding
myself, my motivation, my real skills

23
00:02:17,769 --> 00:02:26,530
which then allow me to test and
experiment and try different things.

24
00:02:26,534 --> 00:02:28,560
This is where podcasting came from.

25
00:02:28,563 --> 00:02:30,759
This is where writing came from.

26
00:02:31,254 --> 00:02:37,976
This is where, linkedIn Top Voice came
from because I was talking about and

27
00:02:37,976 --> 00:02:42,845
practicing different ways of working
and different ways of influencing

28
00:02:46,029 --> 00:02:54,351
conversations so that I was actually
amplifying the possibilities, right?

29
00:02:54,771 --> 00:02:59,325
So everybody's gonna be different with
what these practices are because it's

30
00:02:59,333 --> 00:03:05,697
all based in who you are, what you value,
what your skills are, what you know,

31
00:03:05,709 --> 00:03:11,351
who you know, and what you truly want.

32
00:03:11,399 --> 00:03:13,037
Like, where do you wanna go?

33
00:03:13,269 --> 00:03:17,829
What do you feel is success?

34
00:03:17,944 --> 00:03:20,428
And also, what do you
need in the moment, right?

35
00:03:20,428 --> 00:03:25,403
Because it's… it can't just only
ever be future-focused, right?

36
00:03:25,810 --> 00:03:31,856
So it's how do you take the foundations
of who you are and your history,

37
00:03:32,558 --> 00:03:37,238
what you need at the moment, and what
you're going to need for the future,

38
00:03:37,238 --> 00:03:45,010
and how do you actually build that out
so that you've got strong foundations

39
00:03:45,668 --> 00:03:51,335
but robust possibilities, right?

40
00:03:51,359 --> 00:03:53,992
And that's really what
foresight comes into.

41
00:03:54,007 --> 00:03:58,516
It's in an age of stability,
planning becomes different.

42
00:03:58,516 --> 00:04:02,237
It's like you have an idea, you see the
possibilities about it, you look at the

43
00:04:02,247 --> 00:04:09,432
trends that you can see forming, you set
a goal, and then you navigate towards

44
00:04:09,432 --> 00:04:14,831
that, and pretty much when things are
stable, you can get pretty close to that.

45
00:04:16,038 --> 00:04:19,873
But in an age like today, when we
really don't know what's happening,

46
00:04:20,347 --> 00:04:22,285
how is AG going to, affect it?

47
00:04:22,332 --> 00:04:25,765
How is geo political tension
really gonna change things?

48
00:04:26,396 --> 00:04:30,824
We don't really know, and nobody
really truly can predict with any

49
00:04:30,824 --> 00:04:32,682
certainty about how things are gonna do.

50
00:04:33,347 --> 00:04:35,464
But you can't really just stop living.

51
00:04:35,473 --> 00:04:38,149
You can't stop making
choices and decisions.

52
00:04:38,149 --> 00:04:45,603
It's just what do you have in place
that allows you to move forward

53
00:04:50,036 --> 00:04:55,639
But pivot and adjust as opportunities come
your way and things become more clear.

54
00:04:56,312 --> 00:04:59,085
How do you make that decision?

55
00:04:59,097 --> 00:05:06,713
And a lot of what we're seeing with
this is it's the people who aren't able

56
00:05:06,714 --> 00:05:12,707
to let go of the way things should be,
the story of how things have always

57
00:05:12,708 --> 00:05:18,480
been the story of what things should
be that are having a harder time with

58
00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,912
that flexibility and that adaptability.

59
00:05:21,377 --> 00:05:23,913
You should retire at age 65.

60
00:05:24,779 --> 00:05:26,918
What happens if the pension age changes?

61
00:05:26,952 --> 00:05:30,733
Governments are changing the
retirement age to age 67.

62
00:05:31,248 --> 00:05:36,786
All of a sudden, that's a two-year gap
where you either have to keep working

63
00:05:37,386 --> 00:05:40,991
or you're retiring early and it's
affecting your pension calculations.

64
00:05:40,992 --> 00:05:42,111
Can you afford that?

65
00:05:42,683 --> 00:05:45,318
But it's also, what is your health?

66
00:05:45,546 --> 00:05:49,385
So my husband in particular, I
realize he's got a very different

67
00:05:49,387 --> 00:05:56,058
perspective on retirement than I do
because he has a very physical job.

68
00:05:56,069 --> 00:05:59,662
He does h- home renovations,
and so he's constantly on his

69
00:05:59,662 --> 00:06:04,950
feet, and he's experiencing,
issues with gout and arthritis.

70
00:06:07,128 --> 00:06:10,271
The concept of being
close to retirement…

71
00:06:11,066 --> 00:06:14,688
We just turned 55, so I don't know
that we're really close to retirement

72
00:06:14,699 --> 00:06:16,492
even by any stretch of imagination.

73
00:06:16,493 --> 00:06:20,397
But at least, at least 10 years
if you're looking at that as

74
00:06:20,472 --> 00:06:22,401
age 65 as the retirement age.

75
00:06:25,692 --> 00:06:30,871
I personally don't think that I'm
retiring probably until mid-70s,

76
00:06:31,121 --> 00:06:38,283
early 80s, because my dad is already
94 and my mom died at age 87.

77
00:06:38,776 --> 00:06:40,870
I've got longevity on my side.

78
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,646
And I don't have the finances in
place to be able to afford that at

79
00:06:46,646 --> 00:06:51,682
this moment, so I'm going to have
to figure out s- income streams

80
00:06:51,986 --> 00:06:56,300
that'll get me to age probably 100.

81
00:06:57,070 --> 00:06:59,899
So that's why I'm very interested
in what Linda Gratton is writing

82
00:06:59,903 --> 00:07:01,631
about living the 100-year life.

83
00:07:03,087 --> 00:07:06,631
How do we prepare for that extra

84
00:07:10,406 --> 00:07:13,171
a set of working years nobody
really ever planned for.

85
00:07:13,181 --> 00:07:16,606
And quite honestly, I,
my mom died of dementia.

86
00:07:16,620 --> 00:07:21,249
She retired at age 65,
and she was gone by 87.

87
00:07:21,276 --> 00:07:27,754
But I watched how she lived
the last part of her life

88
00:07:30,556 --> 00:07:32,957
And I don't know that I want that.

89
00:07:33,651 --> 00:07:37,616
I don't know that I want 20
years of really doing nothing

90
00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:43,171
That's

91
00:07:46,578 --> 00:07:52,005
engaging and that has
resonance and that has impact.

92
00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:54,441
So it's not that my mom did nothing.

93
00:07:54,441 --> 00:07:57,404
Like she was involved with my
kids, she was involved with family.

94
00:07:57,989 --> 00:07:59,970
They-- she had day-to-day activities.

95
00:08:00,084 --> 00:08:02,755
She did a lot of walking,
she did a lot of reading.

96
00:08:02,765 --> 00:08:04,863
She, followed the news, all that stuff.

97
00:08:05,465 --> 00:08:11,474
But if I look back in terms of
legacy from a professional capacity

98
00:08:15,047 --> 00:08:19,359
I don't know that she
had a memorable legacy.

99
00:08:19,370 --> 00:08:24,384
She took care of her
family and she had enough.

100
00:08:25,876 --> 00:08:29,937
But if anybody remembers her, it's
because of who she was individually

101
00:08:29,937 --> 00:08:32,516
and, how devoted she was to her family.

102
00:08:33,864 --> 00:08:37,269
And I feel like I want more

103
00:08:39,814 --> 00:08:41,216
So how do I get that?

104
00:08:41,521 --> 00:08:51,069
And what does that mean for the next,
say, 40 years of my life, 45 years of my

105
00:08:51,069 --> 00:08:55,957
life in terms of working and engaging and

106
00:08:58,749 --> 00:09:01,834
if you actually apply that
to your own life too, right?

107
00:09:01,863 --> 00:09:04,972
What does that look like in
terms of planning that out?

108
00:09:04,988 --> 00:09:07,167
My kids have told me that
they don't necessarily wanna

109
00:09:07,172 --> 00:09:08,706
have kids, and, that's fine.

110
00:09:08,757 --> 00:09:10,433
I was the same at that age too.

111
00:09:10,433 --> 00:09:12,970
I didn't actually want
kids until I was turn- 29.

112
00:09:13,330 --> 00:09:15,080
So you never know what
people are gonna do.

113
00:09:15,514 --> 00:09:20,062
It's the reality of what they do
when it actually happens, right?

114
00:09:20,171 --> 00:09:22,843
Everybody makes decisions at
different times of their lives.

115
00:09:23,970 --> 00:09:27,355
But they might not, right?

116
00:09:27,362 --> 00:09:33,546
So if they're making these different
choices, it means that I won't

117
00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:36,055
have grandchildren around to spoil.

118
00:09:36,487 --> 00:09:44,612
It means that I have to look at the…
what Linda Grattan calls the threads

119
00:09:44,612 --> 00:09:51,243
that fuel your life, so intimacy and
friendship and those nurture threads.

120
00:09:51,290 --> 00:09:54,838
Because I'm an only child, I
don't have an awful lot of family.

121
00:09:55,161 --> 00:09:57,733
I have a cousin that I'm very close to.

122
00:09:58,106 --> 00:10:03,111
But m- my parents will… my dad's 94.

123
00:10:03,161 --> 00:10:06,702
There's a reality that's
coming my way at some point.

124
00:10:07,624 --> 00:10:10,943
My aunts and uncles are
starting to pass away.

125
00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:14,108
I just, I don't have
extended family support.

126
00:10:14,109 --> 00:10:15,695
I have my children and my husband.

127
00:10:16,349 --> 00:10:18,402
And what does that look like?

128
00:10:18,562 --> 00:10:25,575
For me, that means that I really need
to nurture friendships and colleagues.

129
00:10:25,577 --> 00:10:30,286
And as a sole proprietor, I don't
necessarily have that in my life.

130
00:10:30,310 --> 00:10:35,451
So how do I structure my work in ways that

131
00:10:37,606 --> 00:10:41,693
aren't going to prioritize
my ability to actually have

132
00:10:45,882 --> 00:10:50,393
people in my life that recognize
me, that fuel my sense of

133
00:10:50,393 --> 00:10:53,631
belonging and relevance really.

134
00:10:53,685 --> 00:10:55,480
Like, how do I feel witnessed?

135
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:56,725
How do I feel seen?

136
00:10:57,246 --> 00:11:00,581
I spent a lot of time actually
reading about retirement because the

137
00:11:00,581 --> 00:11:07,725
reality of being retired is different
than what the, the advertisements

138
00:11:07,727 --> 00:11:09,294
would have you believe, right?

139
00:11:09,298 --> 00:11:14,393
There's a guy on Substack, so he used
to be in charge of huge ships on the

140
00:11:14,393 --> 00:11:15,975
seas called The Old Gray Thinker.

141
00:11:16,562 --> 00:11:22,174
And I spent a lot of time reading
his stuff because he talks about the

142
00:11:23,042 --> 00:11:28,207
perception gap of what re- what retirement
is supposed to be, the way that it's

143
00:11:28,208 --> 00:11:32,908
sold, the way that we talk about it
in, you know, pop culture and, what we

144
00:11:32,908 --> 00:11:37,679
learn from our parents and what we've
seen our parents do, and the reality of

145
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,998
what it is actually to live it and how

146
00:11:44,761 --> 00:11:48,740
It matters that you have a whole
bunch of knowledge that nobody really

147
00:11:49,038 --> 00:11:54,085
respects anymore because you're not
really associated with a profession.

148
00:11:54,096 --> 00:11:55,554
You don't have a job title.

149
00:11:56,006 --> 00:11:58,000
That knowledge has nowhere to go.

150
00:11:58,032 --> 00:12:02,403
Nobody's searching out your
information because you're, you

151
00:12:02,404 --> 00:12:03,606
don't have that credibility.

152
00:12:03,606 --> 00:12:05,784
You've got the word
retired attached to it.

153
00:12:06,481 --> 00:12:09,784
And how does that actually
affect your sense of self-worth?

154
00:12:10,930 --> 00:12:16,151
Who are you if other people
don't necessarily need you?

155
00:12:17,150 --> 00:12:18,818
And that's destabilizing.

156
00:12:18,996 --> 00:12:20,510
I've seen it happen to my mother.

157
00:12:20,510 --> 00:12:21,859
I've seen it happen to my father.

158
00:12:22,298 --> 00:12:24,360
My father actually worked into his 70s.

159
00:12:24,467 --> 00:12:27,469
The reason that he retired is because
my mother started getting sick.

160
00:12:28,726 --> 00:12:31,557
We actually really had to force
that issue because I was working

161
00:12:31,557 --> 00:12:32,686
full-time and I had little kids.

162
00:12:32,686 --> 00:12:34,129
I couldn't handle it all.

163
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:37,200
And so he wanted to keep working

164
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:41,505
But he had caregiving responsibilities.

165
00:12:42,282 --> 00:12:46,614
And it's how do you make those
choices as well too, right?

166
00:12:46,990 --> 00:12:52,410
So at all different age groups, what's
changing is the decisions that you make

167
00:12:53,325 --> 00:12:57,319
may not necessarily line up with the
other people that are in your age group.

168
00:12:57,319 --> 00:13:01,292
So it used to be that you were
born, you were a child, you lived

169
00:13:01,294 --> 00:13:06,234
with your parents, you eventually
went to, school, high school.

170
00:13:06,739 --> 00:13:09,534
You either graduated or you
went into college or university,

171
00:13:09,534 --> 00:13:10,378
and then you got a job.

172
00:13:11,467 --> 00:13:13,824
And there's multiple different
versions of what that looks like.

173
00:13:13,824 --> 00:13:18,262
But essentially, it could be you
either went to work or you went to

174
00:13:18,271 --> 00:13:19,677
school, and then you went to work.

175
00:13:20,347 --> 00:13:24,752
And then you had… You moved out,
you had your own family, and, you

176
00:13:24,753 --> 00:13:26,807
continued working for, 40-odd years.

177
00:13:26,807 --> 00:13:29,285
You retired, and then you died.

178
00:13:29,421 --> 00:13:34,767
But longevity really
changes that story, right?

179
00:13:35,345 --> 00:13:38,034
You make different choices
at different times, right?

180
00:13:38,065 --> 00:13:42,694
And you can see it even
in my family's dynamic.

181
00:13:42,722 --> 00:13:47,986
My parents are the same age as
my husband's grandparents, but my

182
00:13:47,999 --> 00:13:50,213
family has longevity on its side.

183
00:13:50,352 --> 00:13:53,090
My dad, like I said, is 94.

184
00:13:53,108 --> 00:13:55,193
My mom died at age 87.

185
00:13:55,841 --> 00:14:01,888
But Keith's grandparents
died in their 60s and 70s.

186
00:14:03,481 --> 00:14:05,860
On one side, maybe 80, like early 80s.

187
00:14:06,274 --> 00:14:11,738
And on the other side
Keith's mom died at age 54.

188
00:14:15,004 --> 00:14:17,587
His grand- his father died at age 62.

189
00:14:17,602 --> 00:14:19,658
That's what my grandparents were.

190
00:14:19,755 --> 00:14:22,496
I never knew any of my
grandparents because they died

191
00:14:22,498 --> 00:14:24,549
so young, before I was even born.

192
00:14:25,415 --> 00:14:31,446
And so longevity really
plays a factor into

193
00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:37,711
The support that you have built
around you from a family perspective,

194
00:14:38,407 --> 00:14:44,523
but also how it impacts your
requirement to do caregiving, right?

195
00:14:44,536 --> 00:14:51,144
So I experienced the whole sandwich
generation experience of caring for

196
00:14:51,144 --> 00:14:55,927
young kids and taking care of older
people and dealing with estates much

197
00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:57,769
younger than a lot of people do.

198
00:14:57,798 --> 00:14:59,249
I was like early 40s.

199
00:14:59,798 --> 00:15:02,338
Keith's mom died wh- my daughter was one.

200
00:15:03,264 --> 00:15:07,578
We were 33 when she died.

201
00:15:07,715 --> 00:15:09,018
So 34.

202
00:15:10,611 --> 00:15:17,171
And so it all develops as it develops,
but things aren't necessarily

203
00:15:17,171 --> 00:15:18,779
as aligned as they used to be.

204
00:15:19,364 --> 00:15:21,037
People aren't retiring at the same age.

205
00:15:21,037 --> 00:15:22,696
They're not having kids at the same age.

206
00:15:22,696 --> 00:15:27,033
They're not having those shared
types of experiences that

207
00:15:27,087 --> 00:15:28,898
really bond people together.

208
00:15:29,806 --> 00:15:34,143
And so how does that change the nurture

209
00:15:37,507 --> 00:15:38,519
that's around you.

210
00:15:38,521 --> 00:15:40,345
And I think this is where the

211
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:49,463
loneliness aspect comes from
because, like, when I had my

212
00:15:49,464 --> 00:15:51,797
kids, I was an older mother.

213
00:15:51,830 --> 00:15:55,570
I was 32 when my first daughter was born.

214
00:15:55,575 --> 00:16:00,838
30… I turned 35 the month after
my second daughter was born, right?

215
00:16:00,860 --> 00:16:05,734
A lot of times people were having
kids 26, 27, so I was already

216
00:16:05,742 --> 00:16:06,841
considered an older mother.

217
00:16:07,415 --> 00:16:11,499
I was 10 years younger than my
mother had been, though, right?

218
00:16:12,026 --> 00:16:16,938
So you just have less in
common because there's that

219
00:16:17,048 --> 00:16:19,196
age gap in terms of experience.

220
00:16:19,196 --> 00:16:24,188
I remember going to mommy
clubs, and everybody was like

221
00:16:26,524 --> 00:16:30,198
a millennial, like 10 years younger
than I was, and I really had nothing

222
00:16:30,201 --> 00:16:36,508
much in common with them because
they just perceived me as being old.

223
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:41,393
That's partly why I was really drawn to
the Erica M. Yummy Mummy Club because

224
00:16:41,493 --> 00:16:48,699
it was support that I found online
that I couldn't actually find in person

225
00:16:51,007 --> 00:16:51,986
And that's where

226
00:16:54,831 --> 00:17:00,227
I'm always a fan of online because
what does it open up to you that

227
00:17:00,228 --> 00:17:01,651
you can't actually get in person?

228
00:17:01,653 --> 00:17:06,286
And Canada is different in lots of
ways than other places because the

229
00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:08,954
distances between us are so extreme.

230
00:17:09,511 --> 00:17:13,433
Like we measure time in hours, right?

231
00:17:13,438 --> 00:17:17,531
So for me to go to Toronto, it takes
me an hour and a half and then you

232
00:17:17,532 --> 00:17:20,680
go to an event, and then you have an
hour and a half to come home, right?

233
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,972
With a young child, to go and visit any
one of the people that I used to work

234
00:17:25,973 --> 00:17:31,319
with as my friends, even if they happen
to be available, it was a commitment.

235
00:17:32,345 --> 00:17:33,624
It was a commitment.

236
00:17:34,106 --> 00:17:39,182
And so that really is something
that impacts my ability to develop

237
00:17:39,182 --> 00:17:45,745
relationships with people who are
like-minded and think like me because they

238
00:17:45,905 --> 00:17:48,914
h- don't always happen to live near me.

239
00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:55,866
And so these are the things that
I look at when we're talking about

240
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,017
foresight and scenario planning is

241
00:18:01,549 --> 00:18:08,358
What are your realities in terms
of who, what shaped you, what you

242
00:18:08,368 --> 00:18:13,247
live with and then where you wanna
go and what you wanna change?

243
00:18:13,717 --> 00:18:15,391
And what has to be true

244
00:18:18,139 --> 00:18:20,729
for you to actually achieve
the things you want?

245
00:18:20,842 --> 00:18:25,650
And do you have alternative plans, and
are you testing out the alternatives?

246
00:18:26,198 --> 00:18:29,798
So it's like a choose your
own adventure kind of game.

247
00:18:29,798 --> 00:18:33,623
That's honestly the closest
version of futurism that I practice

248
00:18:33,625 --> 00:18:35,103
on a regular ongoing basis.

249
00:18:35,144 --> 00:18:39,432
These were books that I loved when
I was a kid, and I loved looking

250
00:18:39,433 --> 00:18:40,559
at all the different angles.

251
00:18:40,566 --> 00:18:45,122
It's like I wouldn't necessarily just find
one answer of, this is what the adventure

252
00:18:45,122 --> 00:18:46,581
is and this is what the story is.

253
00:18:46,581 --> 00:18:51,241
It's what changes if you
change pieces of the story?

254
00:18:51,241 --> 00:18:54,137
If you make a different
decision here, what changes?

255
00:18:54,691 --> 00:19:02,350
How do you see around corners to predict
what… how something is going to react?

256
00:19:02,483 --> 00:19:11,295
And the only way to do it is to live it
and to try it and be willing to adapt,

257
00:19:12,168 --> 00:19:13,905
and that's really what it comes down to.

258
00:19:13,952 --> 00:19:20,888
And those skills, those are the skills and
abilities that are gonna set us up to be

259
00:19:20,888 --> 00:19:23,161
able to adapt through the future of work.

260
00:19:23,746 --> 00:19:28,516
And that, if you're focusing on any
skill or ability that you want to learn,

261
00:19:29,543 --> 00:19:35,067
the practices that keep you flexible,
the practice that keep your mental

262
00:19:35,067 --> 00:19:44,512
agility, your mental acuity sharp the
imagination, storytelling understanding

263
00:19:44,512 --> 00:19:50,391
yourself, all of these skills are far
more important than technical skills.

264
00:19:51,602 --> 00:19:52,009
And

265
00:19:56,260 --> 00:19:57,321
They're not easy.

266
00:19:57,943 --> 00:19:59,477
Some people will call these soft skills.

267
00:19:59,479 --> 00:20:00,229
They're not.

268
00:20:00,486 --> 00:20:06,746
It's hugely important to do this type
of work, and the people who tend to

269
00:20:06,747 --> 00:20:12,673
be academic, who tend to be divorced
from how they feel and can't express

270
00:20:13,425 --> 00:20:18,960
themselves adequately are going
to find it actually more difficult

271
00:20:21,263 --> 00:20:25,127
because pure knowledge alone,
pure technical skill alone that's

272
00:20:25,127 --> 00:20:31,555
the stuff that's really at risk
from AI, in my perspective.

273
00:20:32,293 --> 00:20:38,253
The people who have the ability to
really do the human work the type of

274
00:20:38,253 --> 00:20:41,961
skills that I've been talking about,
that's really where the opportunity is

275
00:20:55,516 --> 00:21:00,362
So I'd like you to like and subscribe
so that you get the up- next update.

276
00:21:00,432 --> 00:21:04,219
And so I am testing out
something in terms of charting.

277
00:21:04,610 --> 00:21:08,114
And one of the things that I'm testing
out is an action that people take

278
00:21:08,177 --> 00:21:09,941
after they've listened to the episode.

279
00:21:10,422 --> 00:21:14,631
And so how does that fuel
how you appear on charts?

280
00:21:15,164 --> 00:21:20,845
And the number one thing is like and
subscribe and comment and review.

281
00:21:21,409 --> 00:21:25,284
And the easiest version of that is
just subscribe on whatever player

282
00:21:25,284 --> 00:21:29,907
you happen to be part of because that
actually is an action that algorithms

283
00:21:29,913 --> 00:21:31,949
pick up on in terms of podcast players.

284
00:21:31,983 --> 00:21:34,407
So if you happen to be on
Apple Podcasts, subscribe.

285
00:21:34,620 --> 00:21:35,753
Spotify, subscribe.

286
00:21:35,783 --> 00:21:39,990
Anywhere else, just subscribe,
and let's test that out