June 24, 2025
Podcasting as Leadership
**Podcasting as Leadership and Cultural Stewardship**
Podcasting isn't just a marketing tool for me—it's a form of leadership and cultural stewardship. I've learned since 2021 that holding the mic comes with real ethical responsibility. I'm not just shaping conversations; I'm shaping culture. What I choose to amplify, who I invite, and how I edit all have long-term impact.
**How I Choose and Work With Guests**
I'm a big believer in trust and long-term relationships. I follow people for years, watching for consistency and authenticity before I invite them on. Cold pitches almost never make it through. Most of my guests are referrals from people I already respect. Sometimes, even after all that, the fit isn't perfect—and that's okay. I value ongoing connections, but I also respect when someone moves on.
**Editing, Consent, and Representation**
I want my guests to feel comfortable and represented well, but I also believe in showing people as they are. If a guest checks their phone mid-interview or delivers a lecture instead of a conversation, I'll often leave that in. That's who they chose to be in that moment. I do sometimes edit or delete content at a guest's request, especially if it's sensitive or could impact their reputation. I'm always thinking about the ethics of what stories are mine to tell and how to share them with respect.
**Learning From Mistakes and Staying Accountable**
I don't always get it right. There have been times when I missed red flags or didn't do enough research across all platforms. When that happens, I reflect and adjust my approach. I use transcripts to review my own performance and look for ways to improve as a host.
**Navigating Tough Topics and AI Bias**
I'm not afraid to talk about hard things—whether it's microaggressions at work, mental health, or the risks of AI amplifying dominant narratives and erasing marginalized voices. I know these conversations have real consequences, and I try to handle them with care, nuance, and honesty.
**Duty of Care and the Power of Editing**
Publishing an episode isn't just about getting content out there. Sometimes, caring for a guest means not publishing something at all—especially if I think they're vulnerable or not making decisions in their own best interest. That's not censorship; that's care.
**Sponsorship and Independence**
Right now, I'm my own sponsor. I'd love to find a partner who shares my values and commitment to honest, courageous leadership—but I won't compromise my message or let a sponsor dictate what I say. If you think your brand is up for that, let's talk.
**My Commitment**
Every guest, every question, every edit, every silence—it all builds culture. My goal is to be trustworthy and to support conversations about the future of work from all perspectives. I call this podcast a love letter to the future of work because I'm optimistic that together, we can create healthier, more sustainable work cultures. I won't always get it right, but I'm committed to learning, growing, and leading with integrity.
**Thank You**
Thanks for listening. If you have feedback, want to connect, or just want to share your thoughts, I'd love to hear from you. And if you feel like leaving a review or rating, that would mean a lot to me.
Top 5 Questions I'm Asking Myself
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How do I decide whose voice gets a platform, and what messages am I choosing to amplify?
This question gets to the heart of my role as a host and the impact my choices have on shaping culture and conversation. -
Am I doing enough due diligence when I vet potential guests—across all their public platforms and not just the ones I'm most comfortable with?
I've learned the hard way that consistency across platforms matters, and that I need to check for alignment of values everywhere, not just on LinkedIn or the spaces I frequent. -
How do I balance presenting my guests in a positive light with representing them authentically—even when their choices or behavior during the interview are unexpected or disappointing?
This is an ongoing challenge, especially when a guest's actions don't align with the tone or values I want to uphold for my audience. -
What are my ethical responsibilities when telling stories that involve others, especially when those stories touch on sensitive topics or could have unintended consequences?
I constantly ask myself if it's my story to tell, how to convey it with respect, and when it's better to edit or delete content out of care rather than censorship. -
How do I maintain integrity and independence in my work—especially when considering sponsorships or partnerships that might not fully align with my values or vision for the future of work?
I'm committed to only working with brands that share my commitment to courageous, honest leadership, even if that means going it alone.
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Find yourself in.
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Thank you for joining the Hope
and Possibilities podcast.
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I'm Nola Simon, and today I
actually wanna talk about podcasting
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itself and why I am actually not
doing guest episodes this year.
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Podcasting is actually.
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A real responsibility.
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It's actually interesting
how it's developed.
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My understanding of it has
developed since I started.
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Podcasting is not really
just a marketing tool.
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Tool, it's a form of leadership.
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It's cultural stewardship.
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It's an act of discern discernment.
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Podcasting is powerful because
it creates culture and.
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That is an interesting thing.
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I've learned a lot since
2021 about podcasting.
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It's got an ethical responsibility
that we really don't talk about an
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awful lot, and you can actually see
that because a lot of podcasts have
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really become enmeshed in politics.
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Right.
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So that's, that's kind of
an interesting development.
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Journalism is changing an awful lot.
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You know, it's, it's really not
just TV interviews and magazine
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articles and newspaper interviews.
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It's the podcasting that gets a
lot of times the longest interviews
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with some of these politicians.
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And that has been something that's,
an interesting trend to follow.
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So I'm not necessarily interested in
politics, but I am interested in how
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we choose our guests and the messages
we choose to amplify and how we
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decide whose voice gets a platform.
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Podcasting is often framed as casual.
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It's, it's a vibe, right?
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And I actually like
conversational podcasts.
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I don't like to script, I
don't necessarily provide
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questions ahead of time.
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I tend to focus on a topic and ask the
guests if they're comfortable about
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talking in general, a about a topic that,
you know, pertains to their expertise.
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But I, I don't like to necessarily
script everything out, right.
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I have done episodes where, you
know, we've done practice sessions
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beforehand for people who haven't
necessarily interviewed an awful lot.
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I have done edits.
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I've asked I've worked with guests
who've actually wanted to approve edits
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to make sure that they're comfortable
because it is representing them
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professionally and I understand that.
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So especially if you are new to
being interviewed it's really about
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developing that comfort level now.
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I also have learned over the years
that I wanna limit the number of
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times that I do that for people
because it's an awful lot of work.
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And I found a, a cheat code basically in
terms of how much editing you have to do.
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If you interview professional speakers
and authors who have a very specific
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message, you have to do less editing.
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So that's.
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In itself a, a learning curve
that I've, I've discovered
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there've been learnings that I've had.
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You know, those, those authors,
those professional speakers,
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they come sometimes with.
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Things that make them comfortable
but aren't necessarily great
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for audience engagement.
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I had somebody on the podcast, he was
a keynote speaker, he is a professor.
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He came with slides and
it was an entire lecture.
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I. And essentially he was doing a
podcast tour and that's what made
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him comfortable to be able to do so.
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Essentially, he was delivering
that same type of lecture to every
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podcast that he was on, which
was not what I was expecting.
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The whole presentation basically felt
like I was just an audience member
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rather than an engaged host who
is actually having a conversation.
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That I didn't love.
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I had another guest who started
checking his phone in the
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middle of the podcast interview.
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We were on video and he
still felt comfortable enough
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to present as distracted.
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I debated whether to edit it out, but
on the whole, I decided I'm gonna leave
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that in because that represents you.
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And if you are comfortable
doing that publicly.
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I mean, I felt disrespected, but again
that represents who you are and who you
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feel you want to represent yourself to.
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My audience.
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So those are kind of
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explanations of, of what I've
learned is sometimes you want to.
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You always wanna present your, your
guest in a positive light and make
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sure that you know that the whole
experience is comfortable for them.
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But if they make specific choices,
you as a host have the discernment
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to be able to decide whether what
they're communicating actually.
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It needs to remain in the
episode or not, right?
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I watch a lot of people I don't
know that people understand that
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the way that I choose my guests is
more it, it develops over years.
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Like I follow people.
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I have a really huge number of
people that I follow on LinkedIn
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and I followed them for years and.
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It's about developing trust in their
messages, making sure that the way
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that they show up is not performative.
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That there there's consistency in the
work that they do, making sure that
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they really believe what their writing
and how that actually is valuable.
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And that's not to say that, you know,
people haven't evolved over time, right?
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Like I've invest, I've invited guests.
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Where, you know, now that they're,
some of them are retiring, some of them
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changed business models completely.
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The, the original podcast episode
doesn't speak to who they are right now.
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I had one guy who actually changed
corporations since similar job,
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but different corporation I think.
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And like I've gone back to,
to people to say hi, like.
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Do you wanna delete your original
episode like it served its purpose?
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You don't owe me anything if this
is not something that you wanna
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represent professionally anymore.
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Do you want to delete that?
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And
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I'm sorry
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people have said no because it
captures the moment in time.
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And it's not necessarily something
that they want to advertise, but
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they're comfortable with having
it represent them professionally,
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which I feel is beneficial.
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So I vet podcast guests a lot.
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I almost never accept cold pitches.
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I have, I have done interviews with
people I don't necessarily know well,
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but usually they've been a referral
from somebody else who's been a guest.
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So.
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The friend or the friend, the people
that you respect will grab my attention
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because you as a podcast guest, you've
already, I've already vetted you.
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Now I don't almost get it right.
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There was somebody that I had
known, I'd actually worked in
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the same company with them.
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I'd followed their, their journey
that kind of started as like their
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own independent entrepreneurial
journey at the same time I did and.
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The episode itself went fine.
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Everything up until the episode was great.
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And then after the episode was
published, she didn't share it.
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She didn't comment, she
didn't respond to any emails.
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It, she basically just ghost to me.
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Now we're still connected.
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She hasn't blocked me on anything.
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She just doesn't engage and it's strange.
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I don't really actually understand it,
but, you know, I had a guest, she just
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didn't wanna have an ongoing relationship.
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Right.
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And that's really something that I,
as a, like a relationship manager have
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always leaned into is like, I, my podcast
guests, anybody who's I've worked with,
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you've been assigned to me, have had
an ongoing relationship with, you know,
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you're, you're, you're mine, right?
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I've committed to a relationship with
you, so you respect me, I respect you.
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And you know, at any point
you can engage with that
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relationship that we have.
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Like honestly, there's still people
that I work with 10, 15 years ago
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who sometimes come back to me.
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Right.
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And that's great.
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I love that.
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Right?
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I, I love people who will have the ongoing
conversations and, and who understand
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the, the value of, of engaging with me.
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Not everybody's gonna
want to do that, right?
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So that's where
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if I've got you know, the majority
of people I've interviewed who, who
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are willing to do that, I can really
kind of write off the, the ones who,
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who don't, which would be one really
and, and call that a win, right?
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So sometimes I don't get it right either.
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I, I wanted to mention a
woman that I, I read her book.
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I followed her online significantly
for a fair amount of time.
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She has a fantastic history.
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She's really well in.
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She's got an incredible network.
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Like your network is so incredibly
deep and you know, she seems to be
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really respected and really valued.
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I invited her to come on the podcast
and while I was actually waiting for
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her to actually decide whether she
wanted to do that, I checked her Twitter
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'cause I, I followed her on LinkedIn
mostly and, and engaged with her there.
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And then I realized that she was
openly supporting JK Rowlings
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opinions and visions on trans people.
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And it stopped my quilt.
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Now she declined because she has
her own podcast in the way that she
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chooses to present herself and to
build that network and leverage it.
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She doesn't need to appear on
other people's podcasts, so she
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doesn't actually do guest spots,
which, you know, fair play.
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I mean, you've got a deep enough
network then you should own that.
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I think that's, that's fabulous
that you're at that point.
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I, I, I.
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It aspire to really have
that type of deep network.
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And so she declined and I felt
like I dodged a bullet because I
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didn't do enough due diligence.
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And even though I'd followed her
for probably 18 months, I'd never
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looked at her Twitter because, well,
I stay off Twitter as much as I can.
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I haven't closed the account because
sometimes it's useful for stuff like this.
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But, that's really important.
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So you know, are you showing up on every
platform as you are, you as a host, when
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you're doing all that research, are you
checking all of the public places that
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these people show up and looking to make
sure that the way they present themselves
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the values, even though they seem aligned
on one platform, when they start looking
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at other topics that are adjacent or
even unrelated to the way that they.
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They work professionally.
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Are those all in line with
the values that you as a host
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want to present to the world?
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What are you giving a platform to?
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And so, as I said, she declined
for her own reasons, but I felt I
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dodged a bullet and I really kind of,
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you start to wonder if you've done enough
due diligence and that puts me back.
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And also.
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I myself have come across a couple of
different topics where the guests have
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actually asked me to delete things
within the podcast and I deleted
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them, but I wanted to discuss them
and the reasons why I've done that.
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So there was one time that
I told a guest a story.
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It is a true story of
my own work experience.
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I worked with somebody who.
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He was very much an in-person person.
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He was the type of person who wanted
to be in the office five days a week.
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He was very visible.
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He was the type of person
who had the standup desk, and
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he stood all day, every day.
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And he was extremely tall, very I
mean, he, he, he was attention getting.
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And so people noticed when he was in
the office and that form of visibility.
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I think he perceived that to be very
key to his professional success,
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and I, of course was very different.
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I was campaigning hard for work
from home, flexibility, all
211
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of the things that I do now.
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And so I was coming into the office and I
would sit near him on the days that I was
213
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in the office and the entire time that I
was in the office, he would glare at me.
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For eight hours a day, I would catch
him just glaring at me during the day.
215
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It was very uncomfortable.
216
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It actually made, going
into the office unpleasant.
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It's what people would
call a microaggression.
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He never did anything violent.
219
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He never did.
220
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He just made the experience of being in
his presence incredibly uncomfortable.
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There was one time I was invited to go
to a high performers lunch and, and.
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He attended as well and he glared
at me the entire time because he
223
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even presented the fact that I was
invited to the high performance lunch.
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He didn't think I deserved to be there.
225
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And the way that it ended up
you know, the lunch wrapped up,
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people went to the bathroom.
227
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I ended up being alone with like
the, the A VP and the, the vp, and we
228
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walked back to the office together.
229
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Again, it wasn't planned, it was just.
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Serendipity, that whole
magical water cooler moment.
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And I walked back into the office
with them and he was livid.
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You could tell.
233
00:14:42,664 --> 00:14:47,034
So anyways, I was telling this guest about
this, this story, and the way the the
234
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story ends up is well, COVID happened.
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And obviously work from home became
mandatory and nobody was in the office.
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And during that period of time,
and I dunno, the full story, he
237
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killed himself and I told the
guests the story and she was shocked
238
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because, is that my story to tell?
239
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Well, it is my story to
tell because it happened, it
240
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impacted my experience at work.
241
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It.
242
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Really underlined my awareness
that the stories that people tell
243
00:15:24,264 --> 00:15:29,634
themselves about the way that work
happens and can happen really is really
244
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deeply embedded in identity and how
245
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that informs the way that
their understanding of the
246
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future of work will develop.
247
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And honestly.
248
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Within that context, it's not just
thought leadership, it's not just
249
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interesting, it's not just academic.
250
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It's actually affecting people's lives.
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And in his case, and again, I
don't know his full story because
252
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I left the company and I, I wasn't
actually in contact with him at all.
253
00:16:08,074 --> 00:16:08,974
It was life or death.
254
00:16:10,894 --> 00:16:11,134
So.
255
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These things matter right now.
256
00:16:16,939 --> 00:16:21,109
Her reaction was actually
really interesting because it
257
00:16:23,389 --> 00:16:28,609
made me pull back and assess how you
tell those stories and who owns those
258
00:16:28,609 --> 00:16:32,104
stories and what type of permission do
you need to be able to tell those stories.
259
00:16:32,659 --> 00:16:38,479
So I deleted it, but I, I still
think that that story deserves
260
00:16:38,479 --> 00:16:40,609
to be told because it has.
261
00:16:43,774 --> 00:16:48,934
Some deep issues connected to
it that are worth exploring.
262
00:16:49,654 --> 00:16:55,744
So how do you tell it in a way that's
not performative in a way that's
263
00:16:55,774 --> 00:16:59,584
emotionally resonant, that conveys respect
264
00:17:02,584 --> 00:17:04,294
and, and fosters trust?
265
00:17:04,894 --> 00:17:05,254
Right?
266
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But doesn't.
267
00:17:06,634 --> 00:17:08,974
Sensationalized doesn't put him
268
00:17:11,884 --> 00:17:12,784
in a negative light.
269
00:17:16,714 --> 00:17:20,644
It's a challenging, challenging,
searching story for me to, to talk about.
270
00:17:20,794 --> 00:17:24,304
And even still, you can hear my
hesitation as I'm, as I'm telling it.
271
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Right.
272
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Another episode where I was talking
to somebody who, as an expert on
273
00:17:30,834 --> 00:17:33,114
neurodivergence and belonging at work.
274
00:17:33,174 --> 00:17:38,794
And so we were talking about AI
and how ai is really trained on the
275
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dominant messaging that's happened.
276
00:17:42,124 --> 00:17:45,574
Like how LLMs are trained is it's,
you know, what's been published,
277
00:17:45,574 --> 00:17:50,044
what's been published, what's, so
the majority of times if you've got
278
00:17:50,044 --> 00:17:54,454
a male dominated field, what's being
published, what's being made public,
279
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what's being recorded has all been.
280
00:17:58,249 --> 00:18:01,579
Predominantly white, cis male.
281
00:18:02,509 --> 00:18:08,869
And so that messaging that's happening
in a lot of different AI and how the
282
00:18:08,869 --> 00:18:13,969
LLMs are trained is, is really kind
of biased and not capturing, you know,
283
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the experiences of people who are
suppressed and have never been published.
284
00:18:20,059 --> 00:18:20,329
Right.
285
00:18:20,329 --> 00:18:24,289
So it's, it's women, it's people of
color, it's marginalized communities.
286
00:18:24,289 --> 00:18:30,709
It's, you know, anybody that
industry and media has not felt
287
00:18:30,709 --> 00:18:32,089
deserved a platform before.
288
00:18:32,509 --> 00:18:33,439
So what does that mean?
289
00:18:34,579 --> 00:18:37,759
So I was telling her that in my
opinion, that what that means is
290
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AI will become, AI that's trained
on that will become ubiquitous.
291
00:18:44,029 --> 00:18:48,799
And so anybody who has that sort of
perception, you're going to sort of blend
292
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into what AI is because that's how the LLM
has really been trained is on that world.
293
00:18:55,399 --> 00:18:57,949
Experience that, that point of view.
294
00:18:58,789 --> 00:19:02,749
So anybody who hasn't been published,
so like that, marginalized community,
295
00:19:02,749 --> 00:19:10,069
women whatever community has not been
dominantly documented, and therefore
296
00:19:10,129 --> 00:19:15,049
that documentation is not available to
train an LLM, you'll have the ability
297
00:19:15,049 --> 00:19:17,749
to stand out because you'll be unique.
298
00:19:18,739 --> 00:19:22,159
You are not gonna blend into the,
the messaging that's coming from AI
299
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because your experience has never been
available to be stripped and trained.
300
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Used to train.
301
00:19:33,649 --> 00:19:37,519
And she told me that she thought that
that was a thing that we should actually
302
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not talk about at that moment because.
303
00:19:43,159 --> 00:19:46,879
When a dominant community becomes
threatened and they feel threatened,
304
00:19:46,999 --> 00:19:48,799
violence normally ensues.
305
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:50,359
So what does violence mean?
306
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It's dangerous, right?
307
00:19:52,249 --> 00:19:55,789
So they, and they could mean like.
308
00:19:56,734 --> 00:20:01,684
A very generalized, they could
retaliate to what does retaliation
309
00:20:01,684 --> 00:20:07,474
at work look like and what does
retaliation in society look like?
310
00:20:07,804 --> 00:20:10,654
So again, these are
unintended consequences.
311
00:20:10,714 --> 00:20:17,254
So the, the AI has been trained on the
voices of the dominance, which means that
312
00:20:17,314 --> 00:20:20,914
the people who weren't never dominant,
those voices are gonna be unique.
313
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So that retaliation.
314
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To suppress those unique voices
could become more extreme.
315
00:20:26,689 --> 00:20:30,409
So I, I think it, I think she's right.
316
00:20:30,409 --> 00:20:34,039
I think that is a risk, but
literally, I don't know that not
317
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:37,129
talking about it is the way to go.
318
00:20:37,939 --> 00:20:38,179
Right.
319
00:20:38,179 --> 00:20:43,909
I think you just have to be very
cautious and, and look at the ethics
320
00:20:44,089 --> 00:20:50,299
and how we want to use ai knowing the.
321
00:20:51,289 --> 00:20:52,099
The risks.
322
00:20:52,129 --> 00:20:54,169
Again, it's not academic.
323
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:58,009
It's not just nice to have, it's
not just thought leadership.
324
00:20:58,009 --> 00:21:00,529
It's not just a thought exercise.
325
00:21:01,009 --> 00:21:08,059
It's how this then shapes culture
and influences how people treat
326
00:21:08,059 --> 00:21:12,949
each other and how we pay attention
and who we are ignore, who we pay
327
00:21:12,949 --> 00:21:16,369
attention to, who we erase and who.
328
00:21:17,899 --> 00:21:25,249
Benefits from the way AI is used and
embedded into workflows and society.
329
00:21:25,999 --> 00:21:26,299
Right?
330
00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:29,419
Those are all really important
things to talk about.
331
00:21:34,009 --> 00:21:38,659
So podcasting is pr, people do book tours.
332
00:21:38,659 --> 00:21:41,389
That's, that's really the way that
I found an awful lot of my guests.
333
00:21:41,389 --> 00:21:44,839
They wanna amplify a book that
they've, they've produced.
334
00:21:45,149 --> 00:21:50,429
So it's a PR tour, but it's not just
a PR tour, it's part journalism.
335
00:21:50,639 --> 00:21:53,789
It's part pr, but it's.
336
00:21:54,824 --> 00:21:58,994
It's really a hybrid of storytelling,
publicity, responsibility, and it carries
337
00:21:58,994 --> 00:22:06,104
real stakes because podcasting gets
picked up by media, especially if you
338
00:22:06,104 --> 00:22:09,254
are somebody who has an elevated profile.
339
00:22:09,254 --> 00:22:13,164
Look at the Liam Payne podcast
that he did with Logan Paul.
340
00:22:14,304 --> 00:22:18,054
Look at the Malcolm Gladwell podcast
that he did with Steven Bartlett,
341
00:22:18,054 --> 00:22:21,384
where after like an hour and a half,
he gets tired and he starts talking
342
00:22:21,384 --> 00:22:24,834
about work from home and the importance
of actually working in person.
343
00:22:24,834 --> 00:22:28,494
And do you really want to spend your life
working in your bedroom, in your pajamas?
344
00:22:29,034 --> 00:22:30,354
And what kind of life does that give you?
345
00:22:30,684 --> 00:22:33,144
And that went viral, hopefully worldwide.
346
00:22:33,654 --> 00:22:40,434
Liam, that podcast, he was, I I, I,
I've refused to watch the entire thing.
347
00:22:40,434 --> 00:22:44,724
So I've seen clips, he, he,
he seemed to be intoxicated.
348
00:22:45,114 --> 00:22:46,074
He,
349
00:22:49,284 --> 00:22:51,684
he seemed incredibly vulnerable during it.
350
00:22:52,314 --> 00:22:56,154
And as a host, I would never
have published that podcast
351
00:22:56,154 --> 00:22:58,554
because I don't think that.
352
00:23:02,364 --> 00:23:07,914
The way that he showed up that particular
day, he was making good decisions.
353
00:23:08,364 --> 00:23:15,234
I don't think that he was thinking long
term about the impact of what he said, how
354
00:23:15,234 --> 00:23:19,974
that would ha affect his relationships,
how that would affect his public persona,
355
00:23:20,004 --> 00:23:23,514
how that would affect his mental health.
356
00:23:24,384 --> 00:23:25,494
I don't think he understood.
357
00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:35,589
The repercussions that that podcast
would actually have and the fact
358
00:23:35,589 --> 00:23:39,249
that that podcast is still live.
359
00:23:39,849 --> 00:23:40,719
I don't respect that.
360
00:23:42,999 --> 00:23:47,319
He was obviously in a lot of pain
from the clips that I've seen.
361
00:23:49,089 --> 00:23:50,499
And I don't think that's censorship.
362
00:23:50,499 --> 00:23:51,729
I think that's care.
363
00:23:51,729 --> 00:23:56,169
So podcasting requires a duty of
care, a willingness to slow down,
364
00:23:56,259 --> 00:23:58,269
to reflect, to hold complexity.
365
00:23:59,209 --> 00:24:02,569
You know, the, the microphone is
powerful, interviews are powerful.
366
00:24:03,139 --> 00:24:08,269
But that ability to edit that ability
to, to look at something and say,
367
00:24:12,949 --> 00:24:17,539
if I care for you as a person, I
can't allow you to go on the record.
368
00:24:17,959 --> 00:24:19,189
Saying what you just said.
369
00:24:21,019 --> 00:24:23,029
I think that that's powerful, right?
370
00:24:24,679 --> 00:24:26,569
So thought leadership is not academic.
371
00:24:26,569 --> 00:24:27,679
It's not just branding.
372
00:24:27,769 --> 00:24:31,969
It really has an impact, and I think
it should be treated seriously.
373
00:24:31,969 --> 00:24:35,959
It's not just a let's dash this
off and get to the next episode.
374
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:40,639
You have to consider that
what we norm normalize.
375
00:24:40,639 --> 00:24:43,429
What we amplify, what we
ignore has a real consequence.
376
00:24:44,134 --> 00:24:46,654
When it's recorded, it gets repeated.
377
00:24:47,134 --> 00:24:49,444
It gets spun into something else.
378
00:24:49,444 --> 00:24:54,044
It gets clipped, it gets reshared
and it builds a narrative.
379
00:24:54,284 --> 00:24:58,394
And especially when you add in something
like AI where you can't necessarily
380
00:24:58,394 --> 00:25:03,824
control that narrative or hallucinations
actually happen and you know that's
381
00:25:03,914 --> 00:25:05,984
going to become something different.
382
00:25:07,064 --> 00:25:11,954
You know, I, I think that's, that's
something that we have to really look at.
383
00:25:17,454 --> 00:25:19,794
So, and there's another story
I wanted to mention as well.
384
00:25:19,894 --> 00:25:22,744
I was scoping at somebody
somebody actually who.
385
00:25:23,434 --> 00:25:26,734
Has had a long-term relationship with
two women who've appeared on my podcast
386
00:25:26,734 --> 00:25:31,024
that I deeply respect, and I really
liked a lot of what he was saying.
387
00:25:31,024 --> 00:25:35,494
He, again, was an author, he
was a speaker, he's a trainer.
388
00:25:36,094 --> 00:25:39,124
You know, I liked an awful
lot of what he was was saying.
389
00:25:39,934 --> 00:25:44,194
And so he actually reviewed
one of my episodes.
390
00:25:44,194 --> 00:25:46,204
He actually gave me
really glowing reviews.
391
00:25:46,534 --> 00:25:47,464
Really enjoyed that.
392
00:25:48,004 --> 00:25:51,454
You know, I gave him some reviews
on his, it was just kind of like
393
00:25:51,664 --> 00:25:53,374
basic relationship building, right?
394
00:25:54,214 --> 00:25:59,754
And then he started writing about
a topic that I recognized was very
395
00:25:59,754 --> 00:26:04,674
related to one of my guests, actually
the guest that he wrote the review for.
396
00:26:05,664 --> 00:26:10,344
And I saw one post that he did and, and.
397
00:26:11,094 --> 00:26:14,514
I tagged her, and again, I was
just like, hi, I don't think you've
398
00:26:14,514 --> 00:26:15,804
actually been formally introduced.
399
00:26:15,804 --> 00:26:19,824
I just think you have a lot in
common that it might be beneficial
400
00:26:19,824 --> 00:26:21,384
for you to know each other.
401
00:26:22,104 --> 00:26:23,994
And I, I tagged her on the post.
402
00:26:25,044 --> 00:26:30,654
And so the intention was to, to really
connect somebody who, you know, I thought
403
00:26:30,654 --> 00:26:35,154
they had things in common that they
might spark you know, mutual recognition.
404
00:26:35,784 --> 00:26:37,644
It felt generous, natural, I was.
405
00:26:37,749 --> 00:26:41,169
The intention, and again,
attention always doesn't meet.
406
00:26:41,169 --> 00:26:43,149
The outcome was to
407
00:26:46,649 --> 00:26:49,199
network in a positive way, right?
408
00:26:49,199 --> 00:26:51,329
So he did not respond that way.
409
00:26:51,329 --> 00:26:56,849
He did not think that
I had positive intent.
410
00:26:56,879 --> 00:26:59,609
He privately messaged me and.
411
00:26:59,984 --> 00:27:04,184
It was the most passive aggressive
email or DM that I've received.
412
00:27:04,234 --> 00:27:05,374
He wasn't thanking me.
413
00:27:05,374 --> 00:27:06,544
He wasn't clarifying.
414
00:27:06,544 --> 00:27:07,594
He was scolding me.
415
00:27:07,894 --> 00:27:12,184
He accused me of playing LinkedIn
police and said that I should
416
00:27:12,184 --> 00:27:14,404
have asked him privately first.
417
00:27:14,404 --> 00:27:19,639
I. For one, you've already commented
publicly on that podcast, you know who she
418
00:27:19,639 --> 00:27:21,679
is because I have the review to prove it.
419
00:27:22,229 --> 00:27:26,129
And his message was framed to putting
me into place, giving me the benefit of
420
00:27:26,129 --> 00:27:30,449
the doubt that I didn't necessarily mean
to shame him, which of course I didn't.
421
00:27:30,989 --> 00:27:34,679
I really felt condescending
and controlling, and he
422
00:27:34,889 --> 00:27:36,299
wanted to put me in my place.
423
00:27:37,979 --> 00:27:38,429
Now.
424
00:27:39,374 --> 00:27:47,954
Personally, what I felt after that
was that he was planning to write
425
00:27:50,384 --> 00:27:57,854
something similar and he felt
that my connecting him to her.
426
00:28:01,454 --> 00:28:03,104
He, he said I was a tattletale.
427
00:28:04,334 --> 00:28:08,654
The thing is like nothing is new,
like you don't own these concepts.
428
00:28:08,654 --> 00:28:11,714
And I mean, however he came to
that, even if it happened to be a
429
00:28:11,714 --> 00:28:18,584
similar idea concept, I mean, her,
her message honestly is, is not
430
00:28:19,394 --> 00:28:20,984
really completely brand new either.
431
00:28:20,984 --> 00:28:25,874
Like it's how you combine your
expertise with those concepts,
432
00:28:26,174 --> 00:28:27,434
the stories that you tell.
433
00:28:28,274 --> 00:28:30,464
How it all can be unique, right?
434
00:28:30,464 --> 00:28:36,434
So like what's unique, what's, what's
creative is how you present your own
435
00:28:36,434 --> 00:28:38,594
personal view of these concepts, right?
436
00:28:38,864 --> 00:28:44,174
So it might not be a completely brand
new concept, but your perception
437
00:28:44,174 --> 00:28:47,624
of it and your, your explanation
of it could be completely unique
438
00:28:47,624 --> 00:28:49,334
in, in different messaging, right?
439
00:28:49,754 --> 00:28:55,124
He really reacted badly and I
basically said, you know, I'm sorry
440
00:28:55,454 --> 00:29:01,679
I. I obviously intended to connect
people that I felt had similar things
441
00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:07,319
in common, and I didn't mean to
offend, I'm sorry you were offended.
442
00:29:09,179 --> 00:29:14,219
But for me, it wasn't just about that
message, it was the fact that there
443
00:29:14,219 --> 00:29:18,689
was a gap between who I imagined him
to be and who he turned out to be.
444
00:29:18,749 --> 00:29:22,859
I felt like I'd misjudged him like I
missed something that was very obvious.
445
00:29:22,859 --> 00:29:25,589
In hindsight, I started paying
Costa attention to the word of
446
00:29:25,589 --> 00:29:30,929
mouth effect and how any tight net
network, regardless of gender, can
447
00:29:30,929 --> 00:29:33,089
really create reputational shields.
448
00:29:33,089 --> 00:29:39,239
So had I overlooked behavior as
his, that was uncomfortable just
449
00:29:39,244 --> 00:29:42,509
because of who he was connected to.
450
00:29:42,829 --> 00:29:45,799
And and how does that word
of mouth effect mask bias?
451
00:29:48,469 --> 00:29:51,439
So that's, that's
another story, obviously.
452
00:29:52,579 --> 00:29:54,319
I mean, I, I still connected to him.
453
00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:56,239
I don't engage on anything he writes.
454
00:29:56,239 --> 00:29:58,069
He doesn't really engage with me anymore.
455
00:29:58,099 --> 00:29:58,909
I haven't blocked him.
456
00:29:58,909 --> 00:29:59,839
He hasn't blocked me.
457
00:30:01,069 --> 00:30:06,359
It was completely professional the way we
left it, but it, it made me think that I
458
00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:13,289
need to do more due diligence and I need
to be more discerning about how I invite.
459
00:30:15,554 --> 00:30:16,004
So
460
00:30:18,674 --> 00:30:21,554
every guest, every question,
every edit, every silence,
461
00:30:21,554 --> 00:30:23,444
it all builds culture, right?
462
00:30:23,444 --> 00:30:25,934
So podcasting is leadership.
463
00:30:26,054 --> 00:30:29,894
It's not just the kind of leadership
with applause or status though.
464
00:30:29,894 --> 00:30:34,604
It's the kind of with ethics and
accountability and an understanding
465
00:30:34,604 --> 00:30:41,684
that whatever we publish and
make public has an impact and it.
466
00:30:41,894 --> 00:30:46,094
It could be a temporary impact, but it
could also be a long standing impact.
467
00:30:46,514 --> 00:30:50,174
I mean, that Logan Paul interview
that Liam Paint did that was
468
00:30:50,174 --> 00:30:54,524
what, 2018 and he's dead and
people are still talking about it.
469
00:30:55,214 --> 00:30:55,904
So
470
00:31:00,254 --> 00:31:06,554
it has a way of taking on a life of its
own that you can't necessarily control and
471
00:31:06,554 --> 00:31:08,084
you have to be really cautious with it.
472
00:31:08,384 --> 00:31:08,654
Right?
473
00:31:09,314 --> 00:31:11,534
So who are you trusting?
474
00:31:12,744 --> 00:31:17,524
I came across a podcast host the other
day who had 200 episodes that he'd
475
00:31:17,914 --> 00:31:23,274
fed the transcripts into a you know, a
custom GPT and is making that custom.
476
00:31:23,274 --> 00:31:23,844
GPT.
477
00:31:23,844 --> 00:31:27,414
He's selling access to it so that
you can ask his guests anything.
478
00:31:28,734 --> 00:31:29,124
I'm sorry.
479
00:31:29,129 --> 00:31:30,564
Do you own that expertise now?
480
00:31:30,954 --> 00:31:32,454
Like what kind of consent did you get?
481
00:31:33,864 --> 00:31:34,674
That floored me.
482
00:31:34,764 --> 00:31:36,414
I mean, I like transcripts.
483
00:31:36,714 --> 00:31:38,334
They're great for SEO.
484
00:31:38,334 --> 00:31:40,344
They're great for pulling quotes.
485
00:31:40,344 --> 00:31:42,624
They're great for learning
what worked in an interview.
486
00:31:42,624 --> 00:31:45,624
It didn't, you know, what
questions did you ask?
487
00:31:45,624 --> 00:31:47,304
That seemed to really open it up there.
488
00:31:47,694 --> 00:31:51,894
I used, honestly, I listen back to
episodes and I use transcripts to analyze
489
00:31:51,894 --> 00:31:59,394
my own performance, how I can prove as
a host, but how do you respect that?
490
00:32:00,414 --> 00:32:02,154
Intellectual property, right?
491
00:32:02,784 --> 00:32:04,734
And who are you giving the mic to and why?
492
00:32:04,794 --> 00:32:06,594
What norms are you reinforcing?
493
00:32:06,684 --> 00:32:07,674
Even passively?
494
00:32:08,274 --> 00:32:12,024
Are you protecting your audience
or just your reputation, right?
495
00:32:12,024 --> 00:32:18,684
So you have to consider what's going
out to your audience as well, right?
496
00:32:20,424 --> 00:32:22,404
And who gets the benefit
of your discernment.
497
00:32:24,444 --> 00:32:27,084
So my goal is always to.
498
00:32:27,879 --> 00:32:28,839
Be trustworthy.
499
00:32:28,929 --> 00:32:30,879
How do I foster more trust?
500
00:32:31,389 --> 00:32:32,889
It's not about going viral.
501
00:32:34,029 --> 00:32:37,389
You know, so far I have not
gone viral with my podcast.
502
00:32:38,229 --> 00:32:39,399
It's not really the goal though.
503
00:32:39,429 --> 00:32:44,319
The goal is really to support
conversation and talk about from all
504
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:47,409
kinds of different perspectives what
the future of work is going to be.
505
00:32:47,499 --> 00:32:50,469
And I call it a love letter because.
506
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:57,189
I am optimistic that we can craft
work that's better and we are going to
507
00:32:57,189 --> 00:33:02,739
make choices that's going to be make
work healthier and more sustainable,
508
00:33:03,459 --> 00:33:06,609
and we can co-create that, right?
509
00:33:06,609 --> 00:33:09,159
So what does that
discussion look like, right?
510
00:33:10,569 --> 00:33:15,969
I'm not always gonna get it right, but
if I'm being very self-aware and I'm
511
00:33:15,969 --> 00:33:19,899
very much paying attention to the nuance.
512
00:33:20,574 --> 00:33:23,964
And how I'm inviting people and how
I'm interviewing them and how those
513
00:33:24,204 --> 00:33:29,904
interviews live on and, and how they
interact and they tell a, a larger story.
514
00:33:30,714 --> 00:33:34,884
That's really where the responsibility
is, and that's real leadership.
515
00:33:36,114 --> 00:33:36,414
Right.
516
00:33:37,044 --> 00:33:38,994
I wanna talk a little
bit about sponsorship.
517
00:33:38,994 --> 00:33:40,374
So I'm my own sponsor.
518
00:33:41,514 --> 00:33:45,204
I would love to have a sponsor,
but finding a company or a brand
519
00:33:45,204 --> 00:33:47,994
that can match the level of care,
concern, ethical alignment I
520
00:33:47,994 --> 00:33:50,304
hold is incredibly challenging.
521
00:33:50,394 --> 00:33:52,734
Agendas very wildly.
522
00:33:52,794 --> 00:34:01,524
There's one guy that I know who has
a sponsorship with an oil company and
523
00:34:03,084 --> 00:34:09,594
he he, it's about heart leadership
and how to lead from, from people.
524
00:34:10,089 --> 00:34:13,389
And his sponsor is an oil company.
525
00:34:14,169 --> 00:34:17,169
He's got some interesting concepts of how
526
00:34:20,169 --> 00:34:23,799
values and ethics work
is all I'm gonna say.
527
00:34:24,489 --> 00:34:30,669
So you have to make sure that the values
align and my vision for the future.
528
00:34:30,984 --> 00:34:32,334
Is often controversial.
529
00:34:32,334 --> 00:34:36,264
It's pushing boundaries that many
are not necessarily ready to embrace.
530
00:34:36,914 --> 00:34:40,124
I'd love to have a sponsor who
shares the commitment to integrating
531
00:34:40,124 --> 00:34:43,664
courage, but I have no interest in
being governed, filtered, or having
532
00:34:43,664 --> 00:34:47,624
my opinion throttle to fit a marketing
narrative or corporate comfort zone.
533
00:34:48,974 --> 00:34:52,484
I'm choosing to sustain the work
independently so I can hold the mic with
534
00:34:52,484 --> 00:34:54,224
full freedom and full responsibility.
535
00:34:54,434 --> 00:34:57,974
So that doesn't mean that
I'm not ready to talk.
536
00:34:58,034 --> 00:35:02,204
If somebody is listening to this and
you're considering what that future
537
00:35:02,204 --> 00:35:05,474
of work looks like, and you think
that we could have a partnership,
538
00:35:05,654 --> 00:35:10,034
then talk to me if you believe
your brand can meet the hard bar.
539
00:35:10,064 --> 00:35:13,874
If you're ready to support courageous,
honest leadership without compromising
540
00:35:13,874 --> 00:35:15,764
or controlling the message, pitch me.
541
00:35:16,649 --> 00:35:20,309
DM me, email me nola@nolasimon.com.
542
00:35:21,009 --> 00:35:23,049
You can find it, anything
on the website as well.
543
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:25,869
I'm interested in a company like that.
544
00:35:28,149 --> 00:35:29,139
What does that look like?
545
00:35:29,379 --> 00:35:30,099
I have no idea.
546
00:35:30,099 --> 00:35:33,159
We'd have to co-create it together, right?
547
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:42,339
I think that sponsorship can be
an amazing thing, and podcasting
548
00:35:42,339 --> 00:35:44,019
can be an amazing thing, but
549
00:35:46,689 --> 00:35:51,489
you have to be incredibly careful
with the influence you're wielding.
550
00:35:53,649 --> 00:36:00,219
And that's my commitment to you is how
do you, how do you lead in a way that.
551
00:36:02,259 --> 00:36:03,264
It has integrity.
552
00:36:04,974 --> 00:36:10,554
And that's my, my commitment to my
guests, to me, my company, you know,
553
00:36:10,554 --> 00:36:12,744
any client that I work with, my family.
554
00:36:18,504 --> 00:36:19,944
That's, that's who I wanna be.
555
00:36:22,404 --> 00:36:25,934
So anyways, thank you for
listening and again, I'm always
556
00:36:25,934 --> 00:36:28,614
interested in people's response to.
557
00:36:29,289 --> 00:36:34,979
My ramblings and you know, if you feel
like talking or giving me feedback or
558
00:36:34,979 --> 00:36:39,449
even a review or rating, hey, you know,
the, those are, are hard to come by.
559
00:36:39,919 --> 00:36:40,579
That would be great.
560
00:36:40,879 --> 00:36:41,689
Thank you so much.
561
00:37:13,909 --> 00:37:14,814
Find yourself in.
00:00:17,995 --> 00:00:18,900
Find yourself in.
2
00:00:23,814 --> 00:00:26,904
Thank you for joining the Hope
and Possibilities podcast.
3
00:00:26,904 --> 00:00:31,033
I'm Nola Simon, and today I
actually wanna talk about podcasting
4
00:00:31,033 --> 00:00:34,634
itself and why I am actually not
doing guest episodes this year.
5
00:00:35,354 --> 00:00:37,693
Podcasting is actually.
6
00:00:40,864 --> 00:00:42,419
A real responsibility.
7
00:00:42,419 --> 00:00:45,229
It's actually interesting
how it's developed.
8
00:00:45,229 --> 00:00:47,809
My understanding of it has
developed since I started.
9
00:00:48,268 --> 00:00:50,668
Podcasting is not really
just a marketing tool.
10
00:00:51,058 --> 00:00:52,528
Tool, it's a form of leadership.
11
00:00:52,798 --> 00:00:55,648
It's cultural stewardship.
12
00:00:55,678 --> 00:00:57,988
It's an act of discern discernment.
13
00:00:58,088 --> 00:01:02,138
Podcasting is powerful because
it creates culture and.
14
00:01:03,593 --> 00:01:05,184
That is an interesting thing.
15
00:01:05,393 --> 00:01:08,633
I've learned a lot since
2021 about podcasting.
16
00:01:13,043 --> 00:01:16,374
It's got an ethical responsibility
that we really don't talk about an
17
00:01:16,374 --> 00:01:20,333
awful lot, and you can actually see
that because a lot of podcasts have
18
00:01:20,484 --> 00:01:25,433
really become enmeshed in politics.
19
00:01:27,008 --> 00:01:27,308
Right.
20
00:01:27,368 --> 00:01:29,859
So that's, that's kind of
an interesting development.
21
00:01:29,859 --> 00:01:31,689
Journalism is changing an awful lot.
22
00:01:32,348 --> 00:01:36,219
You know, it's, it's really not
just TV interviews and magazine
23
00:01:36,219 --> 00:01:38,589
articles and newspaper interviews.
24
00:01:39,068 --> 00:01:47,229
It's the podcasting that gets a
lot of times the longest interviews
25
00:01:47,229 --> 00:01:48,669
with some of these politicians.
26
00:01:49,509 --> 00:01:53,768
And that has been something that's,
an interesting trend to follow.
27
00:01:53,768 --> 00:01:57,609
So I'm not necessarily interested in
politics, but I am interested in how
28
00:01:57,609 --> 00:02:03,189
we choose our guests and the messages
we choose to amplify and how we
29
00:02:03,848 --> 00:02:07,479
decide whose voice gets a platform.
30
00:02:09,324 --> 00:02:11,784
Podcasting is often framed as casual.
31
00:02:11,784 --> 00:02:13,284
It's, it's a vibe, right?
32
00:02:13,284 --> 00:02:16,164
And I actually like
conversational podcasts.
33
00:02:16,524 --> 00:02:20,154
I don't like to script, I
don't necessarily provide
34
00:02:20,154 --> 00:02:21,714
questions ahead of time.
35
00:02:22,134 --> 00:02:27,714
I tend to focus on a topic and ask the
guests if they're comfortable about
36
00:02:27,714 --> 00:02:31,794
talking in general, a about a topic that,
you know, pertains to their expertise.
37
00:02:32,484 --> 00:02:36,174
But I, I don't like to necessarily
script everything out, right.
38
00:02:36,519 --> 00:02:41,319
I have done episodes where, you
know, we've done practice sessions
39
00:02:41,319 --> 00:02:44,769
beforehand for people who haven't
necessarily interviewed an awful lot.
40
00:02:45,219 --> 00:02:47,998
I have done edits.
41
00:02:47,998 --> 00:02:52,598
I've asked I've worked with guests
who've actually wanted to approve edits
42
00:02:52,648 --> 00:02:55,648
to make sure that they're comfortable
because it is representing them
43
00:02:55,768 --> 00:02:57,418
professionally and I understand that.
44
00:02:57,418 --> 00:03:01,698
So especially if you are new to
being interviewed it's really about
45
00:03:01,698 --> 00:03:03,768
developing that comfort level now.
46
00:03:04,458 --> 00:03:08,148
I also have learned over the years
that I wanna limit the number of
47
00:03:08,148 --> 00:03:12,198
times that I do that for people
because it's an awful lot of work.
48
00:03:12,378 --> 00:03:18,728
And I found a, a cheat code basically in
terms of how much editing you have to do.
49
00:03:19,238 --> 00:03:23,498
If you interview professional speakers
and authors who have a very specific
50
00:03:23,498 --> 00:03:26,048
message, you have to do less editing.
51
00:03:26,048 --> 00:03:26,858
So that's.
52
00:03:27,773 --> 00:03:31,393
In itself a, a learning curve
that I've, I've discovered
53
00:03:32,083 --> 00:03:33,613
there've been learnings that I've had.
54
00:03:33,953 --> 00:03:37,128
You know, those, those authors,
those professional speakers,
55
00:03:37,128 --> 00:03:38,568
they come sometimes with.
56
00:03:39,603 --> 00:03:42,603
Things that make them comfortable
but aren't necessarily great
57
00:03:42,603 --> 00:03:44,133
for audience engagement.
58
00:03:44,133 --> 00:03:49,893
I had somebody on the podcast, he was
a keynote speaker, he is a professor.
59
00:03:50,283 --> 00:03:54,333
He came with slides and
it was an entire lecture.
60
00:03:54,333 --> 00:03:58,468
I. And essentially he was doing a
podcast tour and that's what made
61
00:03:58,468 --> 00:04:00,808
him comfortable to be able to do so.
62
00:04:00,808 --> 00:04:03,538
Essentially, he was delivering
that same type of lecture to every
63
00:04:03,538 --> 00:04:07,528
podcast that he was on, which
was not what I was expecting.
64
00:04:07,598 --> 00:04:12,038
The whole presentation basically felt
like I was just an audience member
65
00:04:12,068 --> 00:04:17,468
rather than an engaged host who
is actually having a conversation.
66
00:04:18,823 --> 00:04:20,293
That I didn't love.
67
00:04:20,383 --> 00:04:22,963
I had another guest who started
checking his phone in the
68
00:04:22,963 --> 00:04:25,183
middle of the podcast interview.
69
00:04:25,233 --> 00:04:28,443
We were on video and he
still felt comfortable enough
70
00:04:28,443 --> 00:04:31,353
to present as distracted.
71
00:04:32,283 --> 00:04:38,373
I debated whether to edit it out, but
on the whole, I decided I'm gonna leave
72
00:04:38,373 --> 00:04:41,343
that in because that represents you.
73
00:04:41,763 --> 00:04:44,523
And if you are comfortable
doing that publicly.
74
00:04:47,493 --> 00:04:54,304
I mean, I felt disrespected, but again
that represents who you are and who you
75
00:04:54,333 --> 00:04:57,663
feel you want to represent yourself to.
76
00:04:57,663 --> 00:04:58,473
My audience.
77
00:04:58,773 --> 00:05:00,838
So those are kind of
78
00:05:05,494 --> 00:05:11,163
explanations of, of what I've
learned is sometimes you want to.
79
00:05:14,223 --> 00:05:18,484
You always wanna present your, your
guest in a positive light and make
80
00:05:18,484 --> 00:05:23,674
sure that you know that the whole
experience is comfortable for them.
81
00:05:23,914 --> 00:05:30,813
But if they make specific choices,
you as a host have the discernment
82
00:05:30,813 --> 00:05:35,313
to be able to decide whether what
they're communicating actually.
83
00:05:37,489 --> 00:05:40,594
It needs to remain in the
episode or not, right?
84
00:05:43,084 --> 00:05:47,244
I watch a lot of people I don't
know that people understand that
85
00:05:47,274 --> 00:05:51,594
the way that I choose my guests is
more it, it develops over years.
86
00:05:51,594 --> 00:05:52,554
Like I follow people.
87
00:05:53,004 --> 00:05:57,864
I have a really huge number of
people that I follow on LinkedIn
88
00:05:58,494 --> 00:06:01,254
and I followed them for years and.
89
00:06:02,093 --> 00:06:07,343
It's about developing trust in their
messages, making sure that the way
90
00:06:07,343 --> 00:06:10,373
that they show up is not performative.
91
00:06:10,403 --> 00:06:14,883
That there there's consistency in the
work that they do, making sure that
92
00:06:14,883 --> 00:06:21,903
they really believe what their writing
and how that actually is valuable.
93
00:06:23,164 --> 00:06:26,104
And that's not to say that, you know,
people haven't evolved over time, right?
94
00:06:26,104 --> 00:06:28,774
Like I've invest, I've invited guests.
95
00:06:29,674 --> 00:06:34,984
Where, you know, now that they're,
some of them are retiring, some of them
96
00:06:34,984 --> 00:06:37,054
changed business models completely.
97
00:06:37,054 --> 00:06:40,384
The, the original podcast episode
doesn't speak to who they are right now.
98
00:06:40,814 --> 00:06:44,864
I had one guy who actually changed
corporations since similar job,
99
00:06:44,864 --> 00:06:46,424
but different corporation I think.
100
00:06:47,114 --> 00:06:50,534
And like I've gone back to,
to people to say hi, like.
101
00:06:51,119 --> 00:06:54,479
Do you wanna delete your original
episode like it served its purpose?
102
00:06:54,479 --> 00:06:57,599
You don't owe me anything if this
is not something that you wanna
103
00:06:57,599 --> 00:06:59,128
represent professionally anymore.
104
00:06:59,489 --> 00:07:00,539
Do you want to delete that?
105
00:07:01,994 --> 00:07:02,214
And
106
00:07:11,383 --> 00:07:11,849
I'm sorry
107
00:07:14,638 --> 00:07:18,568
people have said no because it
captures the moment in time.
108
00:07:19,844 --> 00:07:23,504
And it's not necessarily something
that they want to advertise, but
109
00:07:23,504 --> 00:07:26,744
they're comfortable with having
it represent them professionally,
110
00:07:26,744 --> 00:07:29,204
which I feel is beneficial.
111
00:07:30,884 --> 00:07:32,864
So I vet podcast guests a lot.
112
00:07:32,864 --> 00:07:35,234
I almost never accept cold pitches.
113
00:07:35,584 --> 00:07:39,664
I have, I have done interviews with
people I don't necessarily know well,
114
00:07:39,664 --> 00:07:43,084
but usually they've been a referral
from somebody else who's been a guest.
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So.
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The friend or the friend, the people
that you respect will grab my attention
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because you as a podcast guest, you've
already, I've already vetted you.
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Now I don't almost get it right.
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There was somebody that I had
known, I'd actually worked in
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the same company with them.
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I'd followed their, their journey
that kind of started as like their
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own independent entrepreneurial
journey at the same time I did and.
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The episode itself went fine.
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Everything up until the episode was great.
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And then after the episode was
published, she didn't share it.
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She didn't comment, she
didn't respond to any emails.
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It, she basically just ghost to me.
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Now we're still connected.
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She hasn't blocked me on anything.
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She just doesn't engage and it's strange.
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I don't really actually understand it,
but, you know, I had a guest, she just
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didn't wanna have an ongoing relationship.
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Right.
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And that's really something that I,
as a, like a relationship manager have
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always leaned into is like, I, my podcast
guests, anybody who's I've worked with,
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you've been assigned to me, have had
an ongoing relationship with, you know,
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you're, you're, you're mine, right?
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I've committed to a relationship with
you, so you respect me, I respect you.
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And you know, at any point
you can engage with that
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relationship that we have.
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Like honestly, there's still people
that I work with 10, 15 years ago
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who sometimes come back to me.
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Right.
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And that's great.
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I love that.
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Right?
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I, I love people who will have the ongoing
conversations and, and who understand
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the, the value of, of engaging with me.
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Not everybody's gonna
want to do that, right?
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So that's where
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if I've got you know, the majority
of people I've interviewed who, who
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are willing to do that, I can really
kind of write off the, the ones who,
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who don't, which would be one really
and, and call that a win, right?
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So sometimes I don't get it right either.
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I, I wanted to mention a
woman that I, I read her book.
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I followed her online significantly
for a fair amount of time.
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She has a fantastic history.
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She's really well in.
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She's got an incredible network.
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Like your network is so incredibly
deep and you know, she seems to be
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really respected and really valued.
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I invited her to come on the podcast
and while I was actually waiting for
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her to actually decide whether she
wanted to do that, I checked her Twitter
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'cause I, I followed her on LinkedIn
mostly and, and engaged with her there.
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And then I realized that she was
openly supporting JK Rowlings
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opinions and visions on trans people.
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And it stopped my quilt.
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Now she declined because she has
her own podcast in the way that she
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chooses to present herself and to
build that network and leverage it.
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She doesn't need to appear on
other people's podcasts, so she
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doesn't actually do guest spots,
which, you know, fair play.
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I mean, you've got a deep enough
network then you should own that.
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I think that's, that's fabulous
that you're at that point.
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I, I, I.
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It aspire to really have
that type of deep network.
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And so she declined and I felt
like I dodged a bullet because I
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didn't do enough due diligence.
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And even though I'd followed her
for probably 18 months, I'd never
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looked at her Twitter because, well,
I stay off Twitter as much as I can.
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I haven't closed the account because
sometimes it's useful for stuff like this.
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But, that's really important.
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So you know, are you showing up on every
platform as you are, you as a host, when
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you're doing all that research, are you
checking all of the public places that
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these people show up and looking to make
sure that the way they present themselves
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00:11:50,134 --> 00:11:54,994
the values, even though they seem aligned
on one platform, when they start looking
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at other topics that are adjacent or
even unrelated to the way that they.
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They work professionally.
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Are those all in line with
the values that you as a host
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want to present to the world?
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What are you giving a platform to?
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And so, as I said, she declined
for her own reasons, but I felt I
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dodged a bullet and I really kind of,
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you start to wonder if you've done enough
due diligence and that puts me back.
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And also.
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I myself have come across a couple of
different topics where the guests have
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actually asked me to delete things
within the podcast and I deleted
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00:12:37,379 --> 00:12:40,499
them, but I wanted to discuss them
and the reasons why I've done that.
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So there was one time that
I told a guest a story.
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It is a true story of
my own work experience.
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I worked with somebody who.
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He was very much an in-person person.
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He was the type of person who wanted
to be in the office five days a week.
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He was very visible.
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He was the type of person
who had the standup desk, and
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he stood all day, every day.
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00:13:03,374 --> 00:13:09,674
And he was extremely tall, very I
mean, he, he, he was attention getting.
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00:13:10,784 --> 00:13:15,284
And so people noticed when he was in
the office and that form of visibility.
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I think he perceived that to be very
key to his professional success,
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00:13:20,534 --> 00:13:22,424
and I, of course was very different.
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00:13:22,424 --> 00:13:28,094
I was campaigning hard for work
from home, flexibility, all
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of the things that I do now.
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00:13:29,984 --> 00:13:34,844
And so I was coming into the office and I
would sit near him on the days that I was
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00:13:34,844 --> 00:13:37,964
in the office and the entire time that I
was in the office, he would glare at me.
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For eight hours a day, I would catch
him just glaring at me during the day.
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It was very uncomfortable.
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00:13:44,219 --> 00:13:48,599
It actually made, going
into the office unpleasant.
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It's what people would
call a microaggression.
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He never did anything violent.
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He never did.
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00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:59,034
He just made the experience of being in
his presence incredibly uncomfortable.
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There was one time I was invited to go
to a high performers lunch and, and.
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00:14:05,824 --> 00:14:10,504
He attended as well and he glared
at me the entire time because he
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00:14:10,504 --> 00:14:13,744
even presented the fact that I was
invited to the high performance lunch.
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He didn't think I deserved to be there.
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00:14:16,144 --> 00:14:19,594
And the way that it ended up
you know, the lunch wrapped up,
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people went to the bathroom.
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00:14:20,734 --> 00:14:25,504
I ended up being alone with like
the, the A VP and the, the vp, and we
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walked back to the office together.
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00:14:27,934 --> 00:14:29,464
Again, it wasn't planned, it was just.
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00:14:30,184 --> 00:14:33,754
Serendipity, that whole
magical water cooler moment.
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And I walked back into the office
with them and he was livid.
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You could tell.
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00:14:42,664 --> 00:14:47,034
So anyways, I was telling this guest about
this, this story, and the way the the
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story ends up is well, COVID happened.
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And obviously work from home became
mandatory and nobody was in the office.
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00:14:56,814 --> 00:15:01,194
And during that period of time,
and I dunno, the full story, he
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killed himself and I told the
guests the story and she was shocked
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because, is that my story to tell?
239
00:15:11,004 --> 00:15:14,934
Well, it is my story to
tell because it happened, it
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impacted my experience at work.
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It.
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Really underlined my awareness
that the stories that people tell
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themselves about the way that work
happens and can happen really is really
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deeply embedded in identity and how
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00:15:37,129 --> 00:15:40,254
that informs the way that
their understanding of the
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future of work will develop.
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And honestly.
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Within that context, it's not just
thought leadership, it's not just
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interesting, it's not just academic.
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It's actually affecting people's lives.
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And in his case, and again, I
don't know his full story because
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00:16:02,304 --> 00:16:06,724
I left the company and I, I wasn't
actually in contact with him at all.
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It was life or death.
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00:16:10,894 --> 00:16:11,134
So.
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These things matter right now.
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00:16:16,939 --> 00:16:21,109
Her reaction was actually
really interesting because it
257
00:16:23,389 --> 00:16:28,609
made me pull back and assess how you
tell those stories and who owns those
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00:16:28,609 --> 00:16:32,104
stories and what type of permission do
you need to be able to tell those stories.
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00:16:32,659 --> 00:16:38,479
So I deleted it, but I, I still
think that that story deserves
260
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to be told because it has.
261
00:16:43,774 --> 00:16:48,934
Some deep issues connected to
it that are worth exploring.
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00:16:49,654 --> 00:16:55,744
So how do you tell it in a way that's
not performative in a way that's
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00:16:55,774 --> 00:16:59,584
emotionally resonant, that conveys respect
264
00:17:02,584 --> 00:17:04,294
and, and fosters trust?
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00:17:04,894 --> 00:17:05,254
Right?
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00:17:05,974 --> 00:17:06,424
But doesn't.
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00:17:06,634 --> 00:17:08,974
Sensationalized doesn't put him
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00:17:11,884 --> 00:17:12,784
in a negative light.
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00:17:16,714 --> 00:17:20,644
It's a challenging, challenging,
searching story for me to, to talk about.
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00:17:20,794 --> 00:17:24,304
And even still, you can hear my
hesitation as I'm, as I'm telling it.
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Right.
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00:17:24,854 --> 00:17:30,834
Another episode where I was talking
to somebody who, as an expert on
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neurodivergence and belonging at work.
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00:17:33,174 --> 00:17:38,794
And so we were talking about AI
and how ai is really trained on the
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dominant messaging that's happened.
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00:17:42,124 --> 00:17:45,574
Like how LLMs are trained is it's,
you know, what's been published,
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00:17:45,574 --> 00:17:50,044
what's been published, what's, so
the majority of times if you've got
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00:17:50,044 --> 00:17:54,454
a male dominated field, what's being
published, what's being made public,
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what's being recorded has all been.
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Predominantly white, cis male.
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00:18:02,509 --> 00:18:08,869
And so that messaging that's happening
in a lot of different AI and how the
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00:18:08,869 --> 00:18:13,969
LLMs are trained is, is really kind
of biased and not capturing, you know,
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the experiences of people who are
suppressed and have never been published.
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Right.
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00:18:20,329 --> 00:18:24,289
So it's, it's women, it's people of
color, it's marginalized communities.
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00:18:24,289 --> 00:18:30,709
It's, you know, anybody that
industry and media has not felt
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00:18:30,709 --> 00:18:32,089
deserved a platform before.
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So what does that mean?
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00:18:34,579 --> 00:18:37,759
So I was telling her that in my
opinion, that what that means is
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AI will become, AI that's trained
on that will become ubiquitous.
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00:18:44,029 --> 00:18:48,799
And so anybody who has that sort of
perception, you're going to sort of blend
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into what AI is because that's how the LLM
has really been trained is on that world.
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Experience that, that point of view.
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So anybody who hasn't been published,
so like that, marginalized community,
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00:19:02,749 --> 00:19:10,069
women whatever community has not been
dominantly documented, and therefore
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that documentation is not available to
train an LLM, you'll have the ability
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00:19:15,049 --> 00:19:17,749
to stand out because you'll be unique.
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00:19:18,739 --> 00:19:22,159
You are not gonna blend into the,
the messaging that's coming from AI
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because your experience has never been
available to be stripped and trained.
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Used to train.
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00:19:33,649 --> 00:19:37,519
And she told me that she thought that
that was a thing that we should actually
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not talk about at that moment because.
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When a dominant community becomes
threatened and they feel threatened,
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violence normally ensues.
305
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:50,359
So what does violence mean?
306
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It's dangerous, right?
307
00:19:52,249 --> 00:19:55,789
So they, and they could mean like.
308
00:19:56,734 --> 00:20:01,684
A very generalized, they could
retaliate to what does retaliation
309
00:20:01,684 --> 00:20:07,474
at work look like and what does
retaliation in society look like?
310
00:20:07,804 --> 00:20:10,654
So again, these are
unintended consequences.
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00:20:10,714 --> 00:20:17,254
So the, the AI has been trained on the
voices of the dominance, which means that
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00:20:17,314 --> 00:20:20,914
the people who weren't never dominant,
those voices are gonna be unique.
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So that retaliation.
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To suppress those unique voices
could become more extreme.
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00:20:26,689 --> 00:20:30,409
So I, I think it, I think she's right.
316
00:20:30,409 --> 00:20:34,039
I think that is a risk, but
literally, I don't know that not
317
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:37,129
talking about it is the way to go.
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00:20:37,939 --> 00:20:38,179
Right.
319
00:20:38,179 --> 00:20:43,909
I think you just have to be very
cautious and, and look at the ethics
320
00:20:44,089 --> 00:20:50,299
and how we want to use ai knowing the.
321
00:20:51,289 --> 00:20:52,099
The risks.
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Again, it's not academic.
323
00:20:54,169 --> 00:20:58,009
It's not just nice to have, it's
not just thought leadership.
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00:20:58,009 --> 00:21:00,529
It's not just a thought exercise.
325
00:21:01,009 --> 00:21:08,059
It's how this then shapes culture
and influences how people treat
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00:21:08,059 --> 00:21:12,949
each other and how we pay attention
and who we are ignore, who we pay
327
00:21:12,949 --> 00:21:16,369
attention to, who we erase and who.
328
00:21:17,899 --> 00:21:25,249
Benefits from the way AI is used and
embedded into workflows and society.
329
00:21:25,999 --> 00:21:26,299
Right?
330
00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:29,419
Those are all really important
things to talk about.
331
00:21:34,009 --> 00:21:38,659
So podcasting is pr, people do book tours.
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That's, that's really the way that
I found an awful lot of my guests.
333
00:21:41,389 --> 00:21:44,839
They wanna amplify a book that
they've, they've produced.
334
00:21:45,149 --> 00:21:50,429
So it's a PR tour, but it's not just
a PR tour, it's part journalism.
335
00:21:50,639 --> 00:21:53,789
It's part pr, but it's.
336
00:21:54,824 --> 00:21:58,994
It's really a hybrid of storytelling,
publicity, responsibility, and it carries
337
00:21:58,994 --> 00:22:06,104
real stakes because podcasting gets
picked up by media, especially if you
338
00:22:06,104 --> 00:22:09,254
are somebody who has an elevated profile.
339
00:22:09,254 --> 00:22:13,164
Look at the Liam Payne podcast
that he did with Logan Paul.
340
00:22:14,304 --> 00:22:18,054
Look at the Malcolm Gladwell podcast
that he did with Steven Bartlett,
341
00:22:18,054 --> 00:22:21,384
where after like an hour and a half,
he gets tired and he starts talking
342
00:22:21,384 --> 00:22:24,834
about work from home and the importance
of actually working in person.
343
00:22:24,834 --> 00:22:28,494
And do you really want to spend your life
working in your bedroom, in your pajamas?
344
00:22:29,034 --> 00:22:30,354
And what kind of life does that give you?
345
00:22:30,684 --> 00:22:33,144
And that went viral, hopefully worldwide.
346
00:22:33,654 --> 00:22:40,434
Liam, that podcast, he was, I I, I,
I've refused to watch the entire thing.
347
00:22:40,434 --> 00:22:44,724
So I've seen clips, he, he,
he seemed to be intoxicated.
348
00:22:45,114 --> 00:22:46,074
He,
349
00:22:49,284 --> 00:22:51,684
he seemed incredibly vulnerable during it.
350
00:22:52,314 --> 00:22:56,154
And as a host, I would never
have published that podcast
351
00:22:56,154 --> 00:22:58,554
because I don't think that.
352
00:23:02,364 --> 00:23:07,914
The way that he showed up that particular
day, he was making good decisions.
353
00:23:08,364 --> 00:23:15,234
I don't think that he was thinking long
term about the impact of what he said, how
354
00:23:15,234 --> 00:23:19,974
that would ha affect his relationships,
how that would affect his public persona,
355
00:23:20,004 --> 00:23:23,514
how that would affect his mental health.
356
00:23:24,384 --> 00:23:25,494
I don't think he understood.
357
00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:35,589
The repercussions that that podcast
would actually have and the fact
358
00:23:35,589 --> 00:23:39,249
that that podcast is still live.
359
00:23:39,849 --> 00:23:40,719
I don't respect that.
360
00:23:42,999 --> 00:23:47,319
He was obviously in a lot of pain
from the clips that I've seen.
361
00:23:49,089 --> 00:23:50,499
And I don't think that's censorship.
362
00:23:50,499 --> 00:23:51,729
I think that's care.
363
00:23:51,729 --> 00:23:56,169
So podcasting requires a duty of
care, a willingness to slow down,
364
00:23:56,259 --> 00:23:58,269
to reflect, to hold complexity.
365
00:23:59,209 --> 00:24:02,569
You know, the, the microphone is
powerful, interviews are powerful.
366
00:24:03,139 --> 00:24:08,269
But that ability to edit that ability
to, to look at something and say,
367
00:24:12,949 --> 00:24:17,539
if I care for you as a person, I
can't allow you to go on the record.
368
00:24:17,959 --> 00:24:19,189
Saying what you just said.
369
00:24:21,019 --> 00:24:23,029
I think that that's powerful, right?
370
00:24:24,679 --> 00:24:26,569
So thought leadership is not academic.
371
00:24:26,569 --> 00:24:27,679
It's not just branding.
372
00:24:27,769 --> 00:24:31,969
It really has an impact, and I think
it should be treated seriously.
373
00:24:31,969 --> 00:24:35,959
It's not just a let's dash this
off and get to the next episode.
374
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:40,639
You have to consider that
what we norm normalize.
375
00:24:40,639 --> 00:24:43,429
What we amplify, what we
ignore has a real consequence.
376
00:24:44,134 --> 00:24:46,654
When it's recorded, it gets repeated.
377
00:24:47,134 --> 00:24:49,444
It gets spun into something else.
378
00:24:49,444 --> 00:24:54,044
It gets clipped, it gets reshared
and it builds a narrative.
379
00:24:54,284 --> 00:24:58,394
And especially when you add in something
like AI where you can't necessarily
380
00:24:58,394 --> 00:25:03,824
control that narrative or hallucinations
actually happen and you know that's
381
00:25:03,914 --> 00:25:05,984
going to become something different.
382
00:25:07,064 --> 00:25:11,954
You know, I, I think that's, that's
something that we have to really look at.
383
00:25:17,454 --> 00:25:19,794
So, and there's another story
I wanted to mention as well.
384
00:25:19,894 --> 00:25:22,744
I was scoping at somebody
somebody actually who.
385
00:25:23,434 --> 00:25:26,734
Has had a long-term relationship with
two women who've appeared on my podcast
386
00:25:26,734 --> 00:25:31,024
that I deeply respect, and I really
liked a lot of what he was saying.
387
00:25:31,024 --> 00:25:35,494
He, again, was an author, he
was a speaker, he's a trainer.
388
00:25:36,094 --> 00:25:39,124
You know, I liked an awful
lot of what he was was saying.
389
00:25:39,934 --> 00:25:44,194
And so he actually reviewed
one of my episodes.
390
00:25:44,194 --> 00:25:46,204
He actually gave me
really glowing reviews.
391
00:25:46,534 --> 00:25:47,464
Really enjoyed that.
392
00:25:48,004 --> 00:25:51,454
You know, I gave him some reviews
on his, it was just kind of like
393
00:25:51,664 --> 00:25:53,374
basic relationship building, right?
394
00:25:54,214 --> 00:25:59,754
And then he started writing about
a topic that I recognized was very
395
00:25:59,754 --> 00:26:04,674
related to one of my guests, actually
the guest that he wrote the review for.
396
00:26:05,664 --> 00:26:10,344
And I saw one post that he did and, and.
397
00:26:11,094 --> 00:26:14,514
I tagged her, and again, I was
just like, hi, I don't think you've
398
00:26:14,514 --> 00:26:15,804
actually been formally introduced.
399
00:26:15,804 --> 00:26:19,824
I just think you have a lot in
common that it might be beneficial
400
00:26:19,824 --> 00:26:21,384
for you to know each other.
401
00:26:22,104 --> 00:26:23,994
And I, I tagged her on the post.
402
00:26:25,044 --> 00:26:30,654
And so the intention was to, to really
connect somebody who, you know, I thought
403
00:26:30,654 --> 00:26:35,154
they had things in common that they
might spark you know, mutual recognition.
404
00:26:35,784 --> 00:26:37,644
It felt generous, natural, I was.
405
00:26:37,749 --> 00:26:41,169
The intention, and again,
attention always doesn't meet.
406
00:26:41,169 --> 00:26:43,149
The outcome was to
407
00:26:46,649 --> 00:26:49,199
network in a positive way, right?
408
00:26:49,199 --> 00:26:51,329
So he did not respond that way.
409
00:26:51,329 --> 00:26:56,849
He did not think that
I had positive intent.
410
00:26:56,879 --> 00:26:59,609
He privately messaged me and.
411
00:26:59,984 --> 00:27:04,184
It was the most passive aggressive
email or DM that I've received.
412
00:27:04,234 --> 00:27:05,374
He wasn't thanking me.
413
00:27:05,374 --> 00:27:06,544
He wasn't clarifying.
414
00:27:06,544 --> 00:27:07,594
He was scolding me.
415
00:27:07,894 --> 00:27:12,184
He accused me of playing LinkedIn
police and said that I should
416
00:27:12,184 --> 00:27:14,404
have asked him privately first.
417
00:27:14,404 --> 00:27:19,639
I. For one, you've already commented
publicly on that podcast, you know who she
418
00:27:19,639 --> 00:27:21,679
is because I have the review to prove it.
419
00:27:22,229 --> 00:27:26,129
And his message was framed to putting
me into place, giving me the benefit of
420
00:27:26,129 --> 00:27:30,449
the doubt that I didn't necessarily mean
to shame him, which of course I didn't.
421
00:27:30,989 --> 00:27:34,679
I really felt condescending
and controlling, and he
422
00:27:34,889 --> 00:27:36,299
wanted to put me in my place.
423
00:27:37,979 --> 00:27:38,429
Now.
424
00:27:39,374 --> 00:27:47,954
Personally, what I felt after that
was that he was planning to write
425
00:27:50,384 --> 00:27:57,854
something similar and he felt
that my connecting him to her.
426
00:28:01,454 --> 00:28:03,104
He, he said I was a tattletale.
427
00:28:04,334 --> 00:28:08,654
The thing is like nothing is new,
like you don't own these concepts.
428
00:28:08,654 --> 00:28:11,714
And I mean, however he came to
that, even if it happened to be a
429
00:28:11,714 --> 00:28:18,584
similar idea concept, I mean, her,
her message honestly is, is not
430
00:28:19,394 --> 00:28:20,984
really completely brand new either.
431
00:28:20,984 --> 00:28:25,874
Like it's how you combine your
expertise with those concepts,
432
00:28:26,174 --> 00:28:27,434
the stories that you tell.
433
00:28:28,274 --> 00:28:30,464
How it all can be unique, right?
434
00:28:30,464 --> 00:28:36,434
So like what's unique, what's, what's
creative is how you present your own
435
00:28:36,434 --> 00:28:38,594
personal view of these concepts, right?
436
00:28:38,864 --> 00:28:44,174
So it might not be a completely brand
new concept, but your perception
437
00:28:44,174 --> 00:28:47,624
of it and your, your explanation
of it could be completely unique
438
00:28:47,624 --> 00:28:49,334
in, in different messaging, right?
439
00:28:49,754 --> 00:28:55,124
He really reacted badly and I
basically said, you know, I'm sorry
440
00:28:55,454 --> 00:29:01,679
I. I obviously intended to connect
people that I felt had similar things
441
00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:07,319
in common, and I didn't mean to
offend, I'm sorry you were offended.
442
00:29:09,179 --> 00:29:14,219
But for me, it wasn't just about that
message, it was the fact that there
443
00:29:14,219 --> 00:29:18,689
was a gap between who I imagined him
to be and who he turned out to be.
444
00:29:18,749 --> 00:29:22,859
I felt like I'd misjudged him like I
missed something that was very obvious.
445
00:29:22,859 --> 00:29:25,589
In hindsight, I started paying
Costa attention to the word of
446
00:29:25,589 --> 00:29:30,929
mouth effect and how any tight net
network, regardless of gender, can
447
00:29:30,929 --> 00:29:33,089
really create reputational shields.
448
00:29:33,089 --> 00:29:39,239
So had I overlooked behavior as
his, that was uncomfortable just
449
00:29:39,244 --> 00:29:42,509
because of who he was connected to.
450
00:29:42,829 --> 00:29:45,799
And and how does that word
of mouth effect mask bias?
451
00:29:48,469 --> 00:29:51,439
So that's, that's
another story, obviously.
452
00:29:52,579 --> 00:29:54,319
I mean, I, I still connected to him.
453
00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:56,239
I don't engage on anything he writes.
454
00:29:56,239 --> 00:29:58,069
He doesn't really engage with me anymore.
455
00:29:58,099 --> 00:29:58,909
I haven't blocked him.
456
00:29:58,909 --> 00:29:59,839
He hasn't blocked me.
457
00:30:01,069 --> 00:30:06,359
It was completely professional the way we
left it, but it, it made me think that I
458
00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:13,289
need to do more due diligence and I need
to be more discerning about how I invite.
459
00:30:15,554 --> 00:30:16,004
So
460
00:30:18,674 --> 00:30:21,554
every guest, every question,
every edit, every silence,
461
00:30:21,554 --> 00:30:23,444
it all builds culture, right?
462
00:30:23,444 --> 00:30:25,934
So podcasting is leadership.
463
00:30:26,054 --> 00:30:29,894
It's not just the kind of leadership
with applause or status though.
464
00:30:29,894 --> 00:30:34,604
It's the kind of with ethics and
accountability and an understanding
465
00:30:34,604 --> 00:30:41,684
that whatever we publish and
make public has an impact and it.
466
00:30:41,894 --> 00:30:46,094
It could be a temporary impact, but it
could also be a long standing impact.
467
00:30:46,514 --> 00:30:50,174
I mean, that Logan Paul interview
that Liam Paint did that was
468
00:30:50,174 --> 00:30:54,524
what, 2018 and he's dead and
people are still talking about it.
469
00:30:55,214 --> 00:30:55,904
So
470
00:31:00,254 --> 00:31:06,554
it has a way of taking on a life of its
own that you can't necessarily control and
471
00:31:06,554 --> 00:31:08,084
you have to be really cautious with it.
472
00:31:08,384 --> 00:31:08,654
Right?
473
00:31:09,314 --> 00:31:11,534
So who are you trusting?
474
00:31:12,744 --> 00:31:17,524
I came across a podcast host the other
day who had 200 episodes that he'd
475
00:31:17,914 --> 00:31:23,274
fed the transcripts into a you know, a
custom GPT and is making that custom.
476
00:31:23,274 --> 00:31:23,844
GPT.
477
00:31:23,844 --> 00:31:27,414
He's selling access to it so that
you can ask his guests anything.
478
00:31:28,734 --> 00:31:29,124
I'm sorry.
479
00:31:29,129 --> 00:31:30,564
Do you own that expertise now?
480
00:31:30,954 --> 00:31:32,454
Like what kind of consent did you get?
481
00:31:33,864 --> 00:31:34,674
That floored me.
482
00:31:34,764 --> 00:31:36,414
I mean, I like transcripts.
483
00:31:36,714 --> 00:31:38,334
They're great for SEO.
484
00:31:38,334 --> 00:31:40,344
They're great for pulling quotes.
485
00:31:40,344 --> 00:31:42,624
They're great for learning
what worked in an interview.
486
00:31:42,624 --> 00:31:45,624
It didn't, you know, what
questions did you ask?
487
00:31:45,624 --> 00:31:47,304
That seemed to really open it up there.
488
00:31:47,694 --> 00:31:51,894
I used, honestly, I listen back to
episodes and I use transcripts to analyze
489
00:31:51,894 --> 00:31:59,394
my own performance, how I can prove as
a host, but how do you respect that?
490
00:32:00,414 --> 00:32:02,154
Intellectual property, right?
491
00:32:02,784 --> 00:32:04,734
And who are you giving the mic to and why?
492
00:32:04,794 --> 00:32:06,594
What norms are you reinforcing?
493
00:32:06,684 --> 00:32:07,674
Even passively?
494
00:32:08,274 --> 00:32:12,024
Are you protecting your audience
or just your reputation, right?
495
00:32:12,024 --> 00:32:18,684
So you have to consider what's going
out to your audience as well, right?
496
00:32:20,424 --> 00:32:22,404
And who gets the benefit
of your discernment.
497
00:32:24,444 --> 00:32:27,084
So my goal is always to.
498
00:32:27,879 --> 00:32:28,839
Be trustworthy.
499
00:32:28,929 --> 00:32:30,879
How do I foster more trust?
500
00:32:31,389 --> 00:32:32,889
It's not about going viral.
501
00:32:34,029 --> 00:32:37,389
You know, so far I have not
gone viral with my podcast.
502
00:32:38,229 --> 00:32:39,399
It's not really the goal though.
503
00:32:39,429 --> 00:32:44,319
The goal is really to support
conversation and talk about from all
504
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:47,409
kinds of different perspectives what
the future of work is going to be.
505
00:32:47,499 --> 00:32:50,469
And I call it a love letter because.
506
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:57,189
I am optimistic that we can craft
work that's better and we are going to
507
00:32:57,189 --> 00:33:02,739
make choices that's going to be make
work healthier and more sustainable,
508
00:33:03,459 --> 00:33:06,609
and we can co-create that, right?
509
00:33:06,609 --> 00:33:09,159
So what does that
discussion look like, right?
510
00:33:10,569 --> 00:33:15,969
I'm not always gonna get it right, but
if I'm being very self-aware and I'm
511
00:33:15,969 --> 00:33:19,899
very much paying attention to the nuance.
512
00:33:20,574 --> 00:33:23,964
And how I'm inviting people and how
I'm interviewing them and how those
513
00:33:24,204 --> 00:33:29,904
interviews live on and, and how they
interact and they tell a, a larger story.
514
00:33:30,714 --> 00:33:34,884
That's really where the responsibility
is, and that's real leadership.
515
00:33:36,114 --> 00:33:36,414
Right.
516
00:33:37,044 --> 00:33:38,994
I wanna talk a little
bit about sponsorship.
517
00:33:38,994 --> 00:33:40,374
So I'm my own sponsor.
518
00:33:41,514 --> 00:33:45,204
I would love to have a sponsor,
but finding a company or a brand
519
00:33:45,204 --> 00:33:47,994
that can match the level of care,
concern, ethical alignment I
520
00:33:47,994 --> 00:33:50,304
hold is incredibly challenging.
521
00:33:50,394 --> 00:33:52,734
Agendas very wildly.
522
00:33:52,794 --> 00:34:01,524
There's one guy that I know who has
a sponsorship with an oil company and
523
00:34:03,084 --> 00:34:09,594
he he, it's about heart leadership
and how to lead from, from people.
524
00:34:10,089 --> 00:34:13,389
And his sponsor is an oil company.
525
00:34:14,169 --> 00:34:17,169
He's got some interesting concepts of how
526
00:34:20,169 --> 00:34:23,799
values and ethics work
is all I'm gonna say.
527
00:34:24,489 --> 00:34:30,669
So you have to make sure that the values
align and my vision for the future.
528
00:34:30,984 --> 00:34:32,334
Is often controversial.
529
00:34:32,334 --> 00:34:36,264
It's pushing boundaries that many
are not necessarily ready to embrace.
530
00:34:36,914 --> 00:34:40,124
I'd love to have a sponsor who
shares the commitment to integrating
531
00:34:40,124 --> 00:34:43,664
courage, but I have no interest in
being governed, filtered, or having
532
00:34:43,664 --> 00:34:47,624
my opinion throttle to fit a marketing
narrative or corporate comfort zone.
533
00:34:48,974 --> 00:34:52,484
I'm choosing to sustain the work
independently so I can hold the mic with
534
00:34:52,484 --> 00:34:54,224
full freedom and full responsibility.
535
00:34:54,434 --> 00:34:57,974
So that doesn't mean that
I'm not ready to talk.
536
00:34:58,034 --> 00:35:02,204
If somebody is listening to this and
you're considering what that future
537
00:35:02,204 --> 00:35:05,474
of work looks like, and you think
that we could have a partnership,
538
00:35:05,654 --> 00:35:10,034
then talk to me if you believe
your brand can meet the hard bar.
539
00:35:10,064 --> 00:35:13,874
If you're ready to support courageous,
honest leadership without compromising
540
00:35:13,874 --> 00:35:15,764
or controlling the message, pitch me.
541
00:35:16,649 --> 00:35:20,309
DM me, email me nola@nolasimon.com.
542
00:35:21,009 --> 00:35:23,049
You can find it, anything
on the website as well.
543
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:25,869
I'm interested in a company like that.
544
00:35:28,149 --> 00:35:29,139
What does that look like?
545
00:35:29,379 --> 00:35:30,099
I have no idea.
546
00:35:30,099 --> 00:35:33,159
We'd have to co-create it together, right?
547
00:35:37,599 --> 00:35:42,339
I think that sponsorship can be
an amazing thing, and podcasting
548
00:35:42,339 --> 00:35:44,019
can be an amazing thing, but
549
00:35:46,689 --> 00:35:51,489
you have to be incredibly careful
with the influence you're wielding.
550
00:35:53,649 --> 00:36:00,219
And that's my commitment to you is how
do you, how do you lead in a way that.
551
00:36:02,259 --> 00:36:03,264
It has integrity.
552
00:36:04,974 --> 00:36:10,554
And that's my, my commitment to my
guests, to me, my company, you know,
553
00:36:10,554 --> 00:36:12,744
any client that I work with, my family.
554
00:36:18,504 --> 00:36:19,944
That's, that's who I wanna be.
555
00:36:22,404 --> 00:36:25,934
So anyways, thank you for
listening and again, I'm always
556
00:36:25,934 --> 00:36:28,614
interested in people's response to.
557
00:36:29,289 --> 00:36:34,979
My ramblings and you know, if you feel
like talking or giving me feedback or
558
00:36:34,979 --> 00:36:39,449
even a review or rating, hey, you know,
the, those are, are hard to come by.
559
00:36:39,919 --> 00:36:40,579
That would be great.
560
00:36:40,879 --> 00:36:41,689
Thank you so much.
561
00:37:13,909 --> 00:37:14,814
Find yourself in.
