Exploring Generalist World with Milly Tamati

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I'll see you next time.

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Nola Simon: Thank you
very much for joining me.

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I'm the host of the Hybrid
Remote Center of Excellence.

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I'm Nola Simon, and joining
me today is the founder of

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Generalist World, Millie Tamati.

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Thank you so much.

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Hi!

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Hi.

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Nola, I'm so happy to be here.

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It is really exciting.

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And Millie is a really interesting person.

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Currently she lives on a tiny island
off the coast of Scotland, but

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she's actually from New Zealand.

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Do you want to give us
a snapshot of your life?

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I'm pretty excited.

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Quite sure you can capture it
more succinctly than I can.

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Milly Tamati: A snapshot of my life.

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Yes.

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So grew up on a farm in New Zealand, grew
up milking cows realized that the farm

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life wasn't for me and I didn't want to
marry the neighbor and have a bigger farm.

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And I was like I wonder what
else is out there in the world.

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But I had that question, right?

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What do you want to be when you grow up?

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What do you want to do?

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And I had absolutely no idea.

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Like most 16 or 17 year olds so I
ended up going to university and

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studying teaching because to me that
kind of seemed like interesting.

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It could like flex across
lots of different domains.

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The generalist thing is
coming through early here.

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And so yeah, I am a
fully qualified teacher.

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But when I got my degree, I
realized that I really didn't

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want to be I wanted to explore.

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I had grown up in New Zealand and I knew
that there was a big wide world out there.

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And I wanted to, I had this
burning desire to get out and

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experience it and explore it.

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And so that kind of kicked off a,
what was meant to be a one year trip.

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That was 12 years ago of this exploration.

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And so I booked a one
way flight to Berlin.

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And I became completely obsessed with
new things, new cultures, new languages,

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new experiences, new jobs new people.

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And I have for the past about
10 years, I have been building

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businesses around the world.

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I worked as a tour guide for many years
as well, which seems like unrelated

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to anything, but it actually Formed
like the basis of my skillset, which

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is like bringing people together,
creating experiences, building

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something out of nothing being like
really people focused and yeah, I

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fell into the startup world in 2017.

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There was a new startup Kicking off out
of the Philippines and they asked me

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to come out and be like one of their
first employees That was my first dip

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into the startup world From there.

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I learned everything I knew from
them And then I realized I can

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probably just go and do this myself.

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So I launched my first business in
Australia And then I've been building

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my own businesses ever since How did

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Nola Simon: you end up in
Scotland, particularly Ireland?

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Milly Tamati: Yeah, so my on the travels,
I met my now husband and he's Irish,

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but we were living in Ireland for a
while, actually, in the middle of COVID.

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And Like everyone in COVID, we were
like, what are we doing with our lives?

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What are we going to do next?

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And a job came up to come and make
whiskey on this little island.

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And we were like, we're yes people.

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We were like, sure, let's
move to this little island and

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figure out how to make whiskey.

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And he doesn't actually
work that job anymore.

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He works in a completely different
industry and in the climate industry.

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But we decided to stay and now we
are so embedded in the community.

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It's like impossible to leave.

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Nola Simon: That is really cool.

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And that's the thing that's what
I find interesting about you.

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You have this ability to do things
in person and make an impact in your

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immediate community, but you also
connect people globally around the world.

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You've got what 71, 000 people
following the generalist world.

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Newsletter.

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How many people are members?

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Milly Tamati: We've got, I
think around 650 paid members.

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And yeah, about, I think it's
about 80, 000 in our wider network.

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So that's across socials and newsletter.

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But like it is amazing.

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The the generalist conversation, like
when I started this thing a couple of

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years ago, it wasn't like, it wasn't cute.

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It wasn't cute.

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You'd say the word generalist and
you'd get like a dirty side eye,

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like, Why would you want to, why
would you want to associate with that?

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And I was like, why would you
not want to associate with that?

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I actually couldn't understand.

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I had such a contrarian view to it
because from my experience, people who

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had this generalist skillset were amazing.

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Like they had so much to bring and
they had the most interesting careers.

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And I just couldn't understand why
the world saw this really differently.

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And it's like anything it's easy to
say now Oh yeah, now we've connected,

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all of these 80, 000 people across the
world, but it didn't start as that.

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It just started as one or two or three.

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And many of those people are still within
GW and within my within my close circle.

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So yeah, I think.

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Particularly when people are thinking
about like building networks, it can

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feel overwhelming or it can feel like
the end goal is to be really huge, but

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really, it's actually a success as well.

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If you connect 10 people,
like that's amazing.

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If you can really bring 10
people together who needed to

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meet each other like what a win.

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Nola Simon: Yeah, and I feel blessed
because I, you gatekeep how often

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people can get into the community.

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So I'm blessed that I
feel I'm a member of it.

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So I'll tell you just shortly, my,
my generalist story, and I know

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you know part of it, but I'll just
tell it just for the audience.

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For years, people always
wanted me to be a teacher.

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Partly it was how I dressed.

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Partly it was because of
the weight of my hair.

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But I also am, I was always
a gifted student, right?

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I majored in math.

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I minored in history.

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I studied it all in French with a
smattering of Spanish on the side.

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So that's your first tip.

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But I'm actually a masker.

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I'm actually I'm not one of the squiggly
career set because I actually worked

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for a company for over 17 years.

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And I've been in customer
service for over 25 years.

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So I've had a straight narrow
path, but it's because I

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was masking the generalists.

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So I I go deep, so I have wide range.

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I took the generalist quiz.

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They have a fabulous journalist quiz.

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If you want to know what
type of generalist you are.

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And I actually scored on
like the widest range.

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Ooh, interesting.

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But I have the ability to go deep.

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So like the T shaped
generalist kind of thing.

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So if you think about customer
service, I When you get a call,

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it could be asking anything.

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So customer service, generally,
actually people who are generalists

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do well, because you have to know
anything that could come your way.

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In a way, it makes logical sense
that's where I ended up because.

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I'm really good at being able to
feel whatever happens to come my way.

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So that's my story of
how I ended up there.

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And if you look at what I'm doing right
now with the future of work, that's never

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been more generalist because it could be.

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It could be everything that needs
to be addressed to really develop a

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future of work that's going to help
people thrive and businesses succeed.

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Yeah that's my story.

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And that's why I was drawn.

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I remember when they first floated the
idea of the London Interdisciplinary

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School, I remember and I never wanted
to, after I finished university, I never

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wanted to take like a master's because
I wasn't interested in going deep.

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Like I, yeah, I majored in
math, but I majored in math.

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I chose math as my major instead of
history as a major because of the

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STEM bias that exists in the world.

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And

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Nola Simon: it's funny because
that often comes up because I read

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more as like a liberal arts person.

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When people first get to know me,
they think that I'm liberal arts, and

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they try to discount you that way.

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And I'm like, yeah, but I majored in math.

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And they're like, Oh, I don't
know what to do with that.

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Milly Tamati: Oh my gosh, if I had
a dollar for every time I heard that

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exact line we don't know what to
do, that doesn't fit into our box.

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Nola Simon: No, it doesn't
fit into the box, right?

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So I remember reading about what they were
planning with the London Interdisciplinary

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School, and I was like, that was the
first time I ever was like, if I was

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going to do a master's, I'll do that.

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Milly Tamati: And you have

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Nola Simon: somebody on your
team who actually works for

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the school and you, right?

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Milly Tamati: Yeah, I don't work for them.

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We have a close partnership.

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Nikita, who she actually leads
partnerships for LIS, the

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London Interdisciplinary School.

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And we've done a few events with
them for International General Assay.

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We did a big event that included LinkedIn.

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A couple of the top
universities in London.

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So like the work they are doing
is so important because they're a

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challenger university, like to disrupt.

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I know that word gets used a lot, but
truly to disrupt higher education, kudos,

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because that is a feat to even begin.

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Like you're trying to disrupt
organizations that are like

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institutions that are hundreds of
years old, particularly in the UK,

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probably similar in the U S actually.

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So I think they're doing incredible
work and I'm really excited to

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see now they're getting there.

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I think they've been around
for about four or five years.

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So they're actually their students are
now going out into the world and it's

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going to be really interesting to see
those case studies of where they end

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up and how their careers take shape.

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Nola Simon: Yeah.

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I know it's interesting.

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And of course, because I have.

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It's and everything that my whole life
is based in Canada, like I'm not in a

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position to really just come to the UK
and do secondary post secondary education.

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So that's why I chose generalist world,
because it allows me to really see

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everything that you're developing and
meet generalists from around the world.

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But you are actually exploring the idea
of education for generalists as well too.

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Do you want to talk about your new
venture, which is needed to really

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bring revenue into generalist world and
really advance you to the next step?

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Milly Tamati: Yeah, totally.

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I think it's filling a gap, to be honest,
like what I think what we're really strong

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at and particularly what my skill set is
really what I'm really good at is like

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the creation and distribution of content.

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So we've been able to build this like
really strong, engaged, excited audience.

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And then We had our core
product as community, as which

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is a community membership.

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We open it a few times a year.

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And what we realized very quickly
is that community is hard.

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Like it is so difficult to get right.

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And the last thing you want to do
with a community, in my opinion, is

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scale it particularly too quickly.

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So the, like the engineering of like
how many people to let in has been

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so like the meetings that we've had,
like the thought that's gone into

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trying to get this balance right.

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I'm like, okay, we're growing.

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But we don't want to lose
this like beautiful essence.

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of the like culture and the the
feeling of generalist world.

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So we knew that we needed
some kind of other product.

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And the other thing is not
everyone needs community.

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Like some people are like, I'm good.

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I, but I do need the education.

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And so what we did, is we ran a,
an understanding generalist survey,

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which I'm happy to share the link.

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And we really wanted to understand
what the biggest pain points for

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generalists were, what the patterns were.

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And then we wanted to figure out how
can we simply provide tools and tools

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and support so people can work their
way through these big challenges.

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And one of the things that kept
coming up almost every day, Every

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single time was this like positioning
and packaging and like translation

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of your skillset to an employer,
to a client, to a hiring manager.

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It's that feeling of Oh
I could do everything.

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And that's actually not helpful for
the person who wants to hire you to

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hear, like you need to translate it
into a language that they understand.

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So a lot, so we basically created
this course it's called Unboxed.

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And I was thinking about
it over the weekend.

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That I think a lot of courses
promise you quick answers.

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So they promise you like, if you
watch these five hours, you're

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going to get all the answers
and you can copy and paste them.

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And that is not what Unbox is.

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And in fact, I think this is probably
like an anti selling point, but it

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is the truth that like the answers.

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Come from the deep work and Unbox
will guide you through that deep work.

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It'll help you see the
value that you bring.

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It'll help you.

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It'll help shape how you
can stack your skills.

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It'll help you run career experiments.

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And these are all things that like,
I'm not here on a, on a pedestal being

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like, this is what Korea should be.

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And this is how you
should design your path.

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I'm the opposite of that.

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I'm like, you should design
your path however you want.

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And it should be unique to you.

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And you don't have to stay in your lane
and you don't have to be in the box.

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And because of that, to develop a
course around that, it's a little you

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can't really hand people the answers or
like the one track of how to do that.

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So Unboxers, a course.

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That explores what kind of
modern careers look like and

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what a career for you looks like.

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I really believe that careers
don't have to be something that

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you just go to from nine to five
and be a little bit miserable.

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Like I think they can be a
vehicle to loads of meaning.

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I think from what I can tell, like
you get this in the work that you do.

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It's a lot of joy and
fulfillment and meaning.

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And I'm like, oh my gosh, if
we could help more people.

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create careers like that.

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What a net positive to the world.

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So Unbox, I believe when this
episode goes out it'll be live.

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We're opening just for one week.

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So if it resonates, I would
love to see folks in there.

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Nola Simon: So it's a standalone course.

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You don't have to be a membership
a member of Generalist World to

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actually sign up for Unbox, right?

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Milly Tamati: Correct.

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We, if you just want the course
you can purchase the course at

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any time over the next week.

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But we are going to be offering,
because basically every time we

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open the community, it sells out.

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So we are going to be offering, if
people really want in for our February

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2025 cohort, you can reserve your spot.

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You can get it now.

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And that will mean that you
absolutely get a spot next year.

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But if you're not up for the
community, no worries at all.

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You can just opt in for the course and
yeah, that, that will be available.

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Nola Simon: Okay, perfect.

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Yeah.

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I wanted to make sure I understood
and I've seen you're offering

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members discounts, right?

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Yeah.

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Is that correct?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's something that you can
find out in the community.

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If you happen to be a member.

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Yes!

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Get

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Milly Tamati: a bee perk!

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Nola Simon: Yeah, exactly.

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That's right.

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And I think that's fabulous because people
don't really understand generalism, right?

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And they don't often understand how
to translate it into the world of work

295
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as it currently stands and what it's
going to be in the next 5 to 10 years.

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Everything is being disrupted.

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And you think about AI, right?

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Millie ran a fabulous experiment.

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I want to talk about your experiments.

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Actually.

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She's very good at still skills stacking,
but also going out to the community

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and asking for ideas and support
and just brainstorming in general.

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So she's gifted at bringing
people together and just getting

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people to spitball really.

305
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And so you ran an experiment to get
sponsorship for generalist world.

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Because, you have staff, you have
expensive, you have technology

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that you have to pay for.

308
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And you were testing a napkin AI.

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And I did

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this

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Nola Simon: with my podcast because I
wanted to see, I'm not a visual thinker.

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At all.

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And so I saw your post about this and
I was like, Oh, cool because I've been

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experimenting with Pinterest and I'm
like, the thing that I struggle with is

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what visuals to pair with my content.

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And so I took the hundred plus
episode titles of my podcast and

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put it into napkin AI and asked
it to generate a visual that would

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represent the themes of the podcast.

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Ooh.

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And it came up with this fabulous.

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Visual actually it actually does
a deep dive and it gives you like,

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probably like maybe somewhere between
20 and 30 that you could choose

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and present it in a different way.

324
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And then you can choose
whichever one you want.

325
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But you did this as an experiment.

326
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You selected one of those visuals.

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And then you asked the community to help
you amplify that post so that you could

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get in front of the napkin AI CEO and.

329
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ask them whether they would
like to sponsor the community.

330
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Now this took off on, I know
you had it on LinkedIn, but it

331
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really took off on TikTok, right?

332
00:16:45,989 --> 00:16:47,429
Milly Tamati: Yeah, massively.

333
00:16:50,819 --> 00:16:56,179
Nola Simon: So this is an example of
how an experiment can really lead to it.

334
00:16:56,179 --> 00:16:59,419
Even, I don't know where it ends
whether you've had that conversation

335
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about sponsorship or not.

336
00:17:01,489 --> 00:17:04,639
It gets so many eyeballs and just draws.

337
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attention to the idea of generalist world.

338
00:17:08,419 --> 00:17:11,669
And did you want to talk
about that a little bit?

339
00:17:12,129 --> 00:17:12,959
Milly Tamati: Yeah.

340
00:17:13,009 --> 00:17:16,979
It's so funny because that one
wasn't an intentional experiment.

341
00:17:16,989 --> 00:17:22,369
That experiment evolved the fly, probably
not the best like scientific approach.

342
00:17:22,619 --> 00:17:25,139
But as a rule, I love experiments.

343
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I love testing little things and
being like, that became the big thing.

344
00:17:29,779 --> 00:17:30,509
What worked?

345
00:17:30,659 --> 00:17:31,749
How can I do that again?

346
00:17:31,869 --> 00:17:33,709
How can I bring other
people into the fold?

347
00:17:34,109 --> 00:17:35,979
So the idea behind Napkin.

348
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:41,989
ai, I just found it somewhere, saw
a link somewhere and tested it out.

349
00:17:42,279 --> 00:17:46,099
And the video that you see, I
think it's about 15 seconds long.

350
00:17:46,249 --> 00:17:46,879
That's legit.

351
00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:49,839
That's literally me on the first time.

352
00:17:50,039 --> 00:17:54,029
And all those reactions are, I completely
legit, I couldn't believe that it was

353
00:17:54,129 --> 00:17:56,699
instantly I am a very visual thinker.

354
00:17:56,739 --> 00:17:59,979
And so for me, that's Oh, it was
like Christmas seeing these things

355
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instantly be created these graphics.

356
00:18:03,409 --> 00:18:05,409
And so I posted it.

357
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:08,749
I, it, I think the thing with
socials is, pretty quickly if

358
00:18:08,749 --> 00:18:12,969
something is going to hit and It was
hitting immediately on tech talk.

359
00:18:12,969 --> 00:18:13,869
People were talking about it.

360
00:18:13,869 --> 00:18:14,569
They were sharing it.

361
00:18:14,799 --> 00:18:18,369
And so I was like, okay, I'll cross post
it to the LinkedIn test out the waters.

362
00:18:18,369 --> 00:18:20,259
There's always different audiences there.

363
00:18:20,259 --> 00:18:22,669
So it's not a given that
it's going to hit there.

364
00:18:22,929 --> 00:18:24,099
It landed there as well.

365
00:18:24,569 --> 00:18:30,879
And what I did from there is that when
I started to say, okay, this seems

366
00:18:30,879 --> 00:18:32,799
to be taking off on both platforms.

367
00:18:32,869 --> 00:18:33,829
What are my options?

368
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:34,849
What can I do here?

369
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:39,129
How could this be a win for me,
for Napkin, for the community?

370
00:18:39,469 --> 00:18:40,549
What could that look like?

371
00:18:40,589 --> 00:18:45,499
And so then I created a follow up video
basically saying this is now a pitch.

372
00:18:45,689 --> 00:18:51,059
My last video for Napkin got, I
think it's over four hundred and

373
00:18:51,114 --> 00:18:54,774
50, 000 views, something bananas.

374
00:18:55,024 --> 00:19:01,014
TikTok was a wild place and
yeah I just had Napkin in it.

375
00:19:01,054 --> 00:19:06,134
And then their CEO reached out to me
and was like, wow, that was pretty cool.

376
00:19:06,424 --> 00:19:09,944
I hopped on a call with their
head of growth and we just had a

377
00:19:09,954 --> 00:19:11,194
really transparent conversation.

378
00:19:11,214 --> 00:19:12,854
I was like I really like your product.

379
00:19:13,004 --> 00:19:13,794
I think it's awesome.

380
00:19:14,044 --> 00:19:15,834
I think the key to this is.

381
00:19:16,884 --> 00:19:23,334
Do it so sparingly, like I never
shill, like never promote almost any

382
00:19:23,364 --> 00:19:25,874
product unless I'm using it every day.

383
00:19:26,284 --> 00:19:27,264
I'm wowed by it.

384
00:19:27,274 --> 00:19:31,524
I'm not doing it for the bonuses
or, I think you, your reputation

385
00:19:31,534 --> 00:19:33,604
online, you have to be so careful.

386
00:19:33,974 --> 00:19:35,624
And so for me, this was a great product.

387
00:19:35,634 --> 00:19:38,534
I knew that people would
like it because I liked it.

388
00:19:38,564 --> 00:19:39,924
I am my target audience.

389
00:19:40,384 --> 00:19:42,644
And I was like, I know that
this could be helpful to folks.

390
00:19:42,644 --> 00:19:45,184
TBD, that is still in process.

391
00:19:45,224 --> 00:19:48,244
They're keen to figure out
some kind of partnership and

392
00:19:48,244 --> 00:19:50,474
we're just looking into it.

393
00:19:50,484 --> 00:19:52,834
So the experiment continues.

394
00:19:53,164 --> 00:19:53,864
Nola Simon: Yeah, no.

395
00:19:53,864 --> 00:19:58,564
And I think that's cool, but that leads
us to our next experiment, which was.

396
00:19:58,799 --> 00:19:59,619
Intentional.

397
00:20:00,609 --> 00:20:00,889
Yes.

398
00:20:00,899 --> 00:20:05,789
And I will let you guide that one because
I want to make sure that it's going to get

399
00:20:05,789 --> 00:20:08,759
the attention that you want it to have.

400
00:20:08,849 --> 00:20:12,909
So can you tell us all about our
surprise for Thanksgiving week?

401
00:20:13,509 --> 00:20:14,139
Milly Tamati: Yeah.

402
00:20:14,169 --> 00:20:18,969
And I think I'll try and frame it from
what people can learn and what people

403
00:20:18,969 --> 00:20:21,949
can take away and what people can do
in their own businesses or careers

404
00:20:21,989 --> 00:20:24,214
that could They could replicate things.

405
00:20:24,604 --> 00:20:28,104
So the first thing is I asked a
question in Slack, we have a team

406
00:20:28,104 --> 00:20:30,444
channel, and I was like, Hey guys.

407
00:20:30,924 --> 00:20:34,184
What does it look like
to do something weird?

408
00:20:34,344 --> 00:20:38,794
I was like, let's have a thread, there
are no bad ideas, just it doesn't money's

409
00:20:38,794 --> 00:20:42,994
not an issue, time is not an issue,
network is not an issue, just idea storm.

410
00:20:43,044 --> 00:20:43,624
Let's get all the ideas down.

411
00:20:43,624 --> 00:20:44,174
If we had no

412
00:20:44,524 --> 00:20:45,334
Nola Simon: constraints.

413
00:20:45,384 --> 00:20:46,414
No constraints

414
00:20:46,584 --> 00:20:47,624
Milly Tamati: what would we do?

415
00:20:47,644 --> 00:20:48,434
What would we do?

416
00:20:48,864 --> 00:20:52,424
And one of the ideas that came
up was a, we're like, oh we'd

417
00:20:52,424 --> 00:20:54,024
have a billboard in Times Square.

418
00:20:54,854 --> 00:20:58,554
And Then I sat on that for a
second and I was like, huh, I

419
00:20:58,754 --> 00:21:02,344
actually think that I know someone
who knows how to hook that up.

420
00:21:02,894 --> 00:21:07,614
And it was simply like a message to
them being like, Hey, we're really

421
00:21:07,614 --> 00:21:09,224
interested in getting this billboard.

422
00:21:09,244 --> 00:21:10,534
Do you think you could connect us?

423
00:21:10,964 --> 00:21:12,104
And they said, yes.

424
00:21:12,154 --> 00:21:13,754
And this is also the power of network.

425
00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:19,479
Lesson, ask for things,
be like, be a good person.

426
00:21:19,539 --> 00:21:20,889
And then just ask for things.

427
00:21:20,929 --> 00:21:24,189
And when people need things from
you, return the favor if you can.

428
00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:26,209
So this person was able to connect us.

429
00:21:26,229 --> 00:21:27,129
It's all through Brex.

430
00:21:27,369 --> 00:21:29,419
Shout out to Brex who are
hooking us up with this.

431
00:21:29,869 --> 00:21:34,159
And we basically had a call with their
partnerships team and we, long story

432
00:21:34,159 --> 00:21:36,249
short, were able to get a billboard.

433
00:21:36,249 --> 00:21:38,629
The Thanksgiving thing was a, Surprise.

434
00:21:38,689 --> 00:21:41,369
We didn't, that was just a cherry on top.

435
00:21:41,369 --> 00:21:43,599
We had no influence or say over that.

436
00:21:44,089 --> 00:21:49,099
And then, so we basically then had this
opportunity where our very small team very

437
00:21:49,109 --> 00:21:52,749
small, like people often think generalist
world is a lot bigger than we are.

438
00:21:52,849 --> 00:21:54,389
We're actually really tiny.

439
00:21:55,859 --> 00:21:56,509
Nola Simon: Six people?

440
00:21:56,949 --> 00:22:01,179
Milly Tamati: Yeah, and up until the
last maybe three months, or maybe a bit

441
00:22:01,179 --> 00:22:04,529
more, four or five months, it was just
me being the full, only full timer.

442
00:22:04,719 --> 00:22:06,909
And then everyone else was
like one or two days a week.

443
00:22:06,909 --> 00:22:11,059
So it was like hilarious when people would
think that we were this massive company.

444
00:22:11,619 --> 00:22:15,059
So basically our little team is
like dancing around our living

445
00:22:15,059 --> 00:22:16,399
rooms, being like, this is wild.

446
00:22:16,399 --> 00:22:17,209
We're getting a billboard.

447
00:22:17,729 --> 00:22:21,729
But because we have our community
who is like just the core of.

448
00:22:22,089 --> 00:22:24,299
everything of everything
that is generalist world.

449
00:22:24,299 --> 00:22:27,489
It starts in the community
and everything from there.

450
00:22:27,859 --> 00:22:29,689
We were like let's ask the community.

451
00:22:30,064 --> 00:22:31,544
What do they want to have on a billboard?

452
00:22:31,544 --> 00:22:36,584
This is not, and this is actually a,
this is, a philosophy or how I think

453
00:22:36,584 --> 00:22:41,094
about our community is that it's not
like generalist world and then the

454
00:22:41,094 --> 00:22:43,094
community, they're just one in the same.

455
00:22:43,114 --> 00:22:47,714
So when generalist world gets a billboard,
our people are getting a billboard.

456
00:22:47,724 --> 00:22:51,364
This is a message from us, from
me, from the team, from them.

457
00:22:51,884 --> 00:22:53,694
And you saw the thread.

458
00:22:53,694 --> 00:22:54,794
Yeah, I saw the thread.

459
00:22:54,794 --> 00:22:55,664
Nola Simon: It was so fun.

460
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:57,059
Milly Tamati: People were jazzed.

461
00:22:57,109 --> 00:22:57,949
They were excited.

462
00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:03,559
And we ended up choosing a
slogan that someone in the

463
00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:06,464
community On that thread created.

464
00:23:06,474 --> 00:23:08,874
So it couldn't be more
like community driven.

465
00:23:09,194 --> 00:23:10,544
And we thought to make
it a little bit fun.

466
00:23:10,554 --> 00:23:13,614
We kept that, we've kept the
final slogan, a bit of a secret.

467
00:23:14,014 --> 00:23:14,234
I'm

468
00:23:14,894 --> 00:23:16,194
Nola Simon: interested
to know if I'm right.

469
00:23:16,234 --> 00:23:21,324
I guessed which one I would
pick, but I'm dying to know if

470
00:23:21,324 --> 00:23:21,924
Milly Tamati: I'm right.

471
00:23:21,934 --> 00:23:23,274
See, this is the fun thing.

472
00:23:23,294 --> 00:23:26,984
It's if you can find ways to to
make things fun The internet these

473
00:23:26,984 --> 00:23:31,704
days, it's either so self promo
y or inauthentic or insincere.

474
00:23:31,704 --> 00:23:36,354
And it's if you can just find ways to
inside these spaces, have these really

475
00:23:36,354 --> 00:23:41,129
sincere conversations and connections
then people, it becomes like, Their

476
00:23:41,129 --> 00:23:42,779
favorite place on the internet.

477
00:23:42,909 --> 00:23:43,269
Oh yeah.

478
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:43,839
I'm in there.

479
00:23:43,889 --> 00:23:45,079
I'm in there multiple times a

480
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:46,289
Nola Simon: day, honestly.

481
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:49,999
And I don't necessarily always write
everything, but I read a lot, right?

482
00:23:50,629 --> 00:23:51,149
Milly Tamati: Yeah.

483
00:23:51,289 --> 00:23:52,149
There's a lot to read.

484
00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:52,709
Even I'm like,

485
00:23:54,999 --> 00:23:55,989
I love you guys.

486
00:23:56,019 --> 00:23:56,809
I can't keep up.

487
00:23:57,189 --> 00:23:58,639
Which is a great point.

488
00:23:58,669 --> 00:24:02,299
Like you've got to be really careful
about the scale of how you scale things.

489
00:24:02,299 --> 00:24:03,179
It's a science.

490
00:24:03,659 --> 00:24:07,429
So yeah, then yesterday, this is
actually A funny little story.

491
00:24:07,429 --> 00:24:12,089
Yesterday, our team, we had a standup
meeting and we were talking about what's

492
00:24:12,089 --> 00:24:13,229
going to happen with the billboard.

493
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:15,629
And we were like, okay, how
can we get people involved that

494
00:24:15,629 --> 00:24:17,129
are like outside of New York?

495
00:24:17,139 --> 00:24:21,319
Cause we have a pretty big following
in New York, but lots of, we're global,

496
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,499
lots of people outside and we're like,
how funny would it be if we created this

497
00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:29,769
campaign where basically anyone can have
a billboard, you just go stand outside.

498
00:24:29,969 --> 00:24:32,019
We have our squiggle,
which has now become.

499
00:24:32,404 --> 00:24:35,284
We may as well trademark that
emoji because it's become

500
00:24:35,554 --> 00:24:36,764
synonymous with generalist world.

501
00:24:36,904 --> 00:24:36,944
I

502
00:24:36,944 --> 00:24:38,764
Nola Simon: saw somebody trying
to use it yesterday, and I was

503
00:24:38,774 --> 00:24:39,894
like, yeah, that's not gonna fly.

504
00:24:40,804 --> 00:24:42,354
Milly Tamati: That's
hilarious, trying to use it.

505
00:24:42,354 --> 00:24:44,038
Nola Simon: Yeah

506
00:24:44,088 --> 00:24:46,718
Milly Tamati: so this is
how ridiculous our team is.

507
00:24:46,718 --> 00:24:49,058
We were like, we got really
excited, and we were like, yeah,

508
00:24:49,358 --> 00:24:51,228
let's just go into it right now.

509
00:24:51,298 --> 00:24:55,788
And Honestly, four minutes after
that call, Edger posted a picture,

510
00:24:56,328 --> 00:25:00,128
and she's outside, she's done the
squiggle, she's holding her billboard,

511
00:25:00,128 --> 00:25:05,158
and I was like, then Emily's up a
tree she's working from her bed, she

512
00:25:05,448 --> 00:25:09,458
looks like that sloth emoji, it's the
best thing ever, and we were having

513
00:25:09,458 --> 00:25:14,858
so much fun, and I think that radiates
through everything if we're having fun,

514
00:25:14,878 --> 00:25:16,358
people want to hang out with people.

515
00:25:16,663 --> 00:25:17,763
That having fun I was

516
00:25:18,113 --> 00:25:18,933
Nola Simon: planning it yesterday.

517
00:25:18,933 --> 00:25:22,463
I was coming home from dropping off my
daughter, and I was just driving along

518
00:25:22,473 --> 00:25:25,973
Lake Simcoe, and I was like, oh cool,
look at all the Canada geese on the

519
00:25:25,973 --> 00:25:27,703
lake, because nothing's frozen in Canada.

520
00:25:27,753 --> 00:25:31,293
Like you guys have snow in like the
UK right now, and Canada has nothing.

521
00:25:31,293 --> 00:25:34,243
I literally didn't even need a
jacket when I was walking yesterday,

522
00:25:34,663 --> 00:25:38,313
and I'm like planning my squiggle
in front of the Canada geese.

523
00:25:40,118 --> 00:25:40,708
So I have to go back.

524
00:25:41,158 --> 00:25:44,598
It's colder today, but I
think they'll still be there.

525
00:25:44,748 --> 00:25:45,008
Yes.

526
00:25:45,348 --> 00:25:45,608
That's

527
00:25:45,608 --> 00:25:46,378
Milly Tamati: amazing.

528
00:25:46,468 --> 00:25:47,388
That's amazing.

529
00:25:47,678 --> 00:25:51,548
And so it's almost like if people
listening, think about it as there

530
00:25:51,548 --> 00:25:53,158
was a big experiment that started.

531
00:25:53,158 --> 00:25:56,538
The impetus was, Hey, what's my
weird marketing things we can do?

532
00:25:56,848 --> 00:25:58,968
And then from there it was like,
okay, we've got this billboard.

533
00:25:58,968 --> 00:26:00,338
How can we involve the community?

534
00:26:00,378 --> 00:26:00,998
And now we're.

535
00:26:01,208 --> 00:26:02,888
It's an experiment with an experiment.

536
00:26:02,898 --> 00:26:05,828
We're now running this other
campaign within that, which is

537
00:26:05,828 --> 00:26:07,298
like anyone can have a billboard.

538
00:26:07,328 --> 00:26:12,508
And it's, I think it's just about tapping
into we call it being strategically weird.

539
00:26:12,938 --> 00:26:15,533
Where like you, You could just do things.

540
00:26:15,534 --> 00:26:19,003
You could just be like,
Hey, that'd be fun.

541
00:26:19,193 --> 00:26:20,203
Do we think that would be fun?

542
00:26:20,273 --> 00:26:20,623
Cool.

543
00:26:20,693 --> 00:26:21,423
Let's just go do it.

544
00:26:21,513 --> 00:26:22,073
It'd be great.

545
00:26:22,463 --> 00:26:22,883
Even this morning

546
00:26:22,883 --> 00:26:25,613
Nola Simon: Millie sent me a note just
to see, what we want to talk about.

547
00:26:25,913 --> 00:26:26,733
Because I'm very bad.

548
00:26:26,733 --> 00:26:31,978
I keep things Very casual, very loose,
I forget that people like structure.

549
00:26:32,378 --> 00:26:36,698
And so she sent me a note and she's but I,
if we talk about the Billboard campaign,

550
00:26:36,698 --> 00:26:38,178
I don't want it to release until Monday.

551
00:26:38,178 --> 00:26:42,608
And I'm like, we can totally use
the podcast to justify the campaign

552
00:26:43,108 --> 00:26:45,028
and publish this on Monday.

553
00:26:45,218 --> 00:26:48,858
So that not only do you have like pictures
from around the world, but you'll have a

554
00:26:48,878 --> 00:26:51,248
full blown podcast episode that you can.

555
00:26:51,338 --> 00:26:51,918
Appreciate

556
00:26:51,918 --> 00:26:52,078
Milly Tamati: it.

557
00:26:52,353 --> 00:26:52,753
Nola Simon: Amplify.

558
00:26:52,754 --> 00:26:53,563
So cool.

559
00:26:53,563 --> 00:26:54,493
Used to amplify.

560
00:26:54,543 --> 00:26:55,003
So cool.

561
00:26:55,133 --> 00:26:56,233
Yeah, exactly.

562
00:26:56,233 --> 00:26:56,703
That's right.

563
00:26:56,733 --> 00:26:58,763
And that happened, what, in 10 minutes?

564
00:26:58,843 --> 00:26:59,383
Not even?

565
00:26:59,743 --> 00:26:59,963
Milly Tamati: Yeah.

566
00:27:00,533 --> 00:27:01,053
Yeah.

567
00:27:01,323 --> 00:27:06,443
We have a saying at Generalist World what
if it were as simple as fill in the blank?

568
00:27:06,683 --> 00:27:09,213
And it's I think everyone
complicates things so much.

569
00:27:09,263 --> 00:27:10,203
Just turn it down.

570
00:27:10,333 --> 00:27:11,643
Take a breath, take a step back.

571
00:27:11,653 --> 00:27:12,893
What is the simple version?

572
00:27:12,913 --> 00:27:15,693
And the simple version is being
like, cool, let's hop on a Zoom.

573
00:27:16,053 --> 00:27:16,543
Let's record.

574
00:27:16,753 --> 00:27:17,753
Let's publish it on Monday.

575
00:27:18,203 --> 00:27:18,693
Simple.

576
00:27:19,193 --> 00:27:21,263
Nola Simon: Yeah, exactly, because
you actually published when you're

577
00:27:21,263 --> 00:27:23,703
talking about the revenue challenges
that you've had for generalists,

578
00:27:23,793 --> 00:27:24,943
where you mentioned, Yeah.

579
00:27:25,023 --> 00:27:27,103
Come on my pocket, and that's how
they, because I'm like, Millie,

580
00:27:27,123 --> 00:27:27,613
do you want to come on my pocket?

581
00:27:28,213 --> 00:27:28,833
She's sure.

582
00:27:28,883 --> 00:27:31,243
Milly Tamati: Yeah, and
that is another experiment.

583
00:27:31,553 --> 00:27:31,733
Yeah.

584
00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:35,733
Actually for context for listeners
I realized my, my whole thesis is

585
00:27:35,803 --> 00:27:38,973
to build in public and not just
build, but to learn in public.

586
00:27:38,973 --> 00:27:41,423
I am not out here being
like, I know all the answers.

587
00:27:42,358 --> 00:27:42,908
at all.

588
00:27:42,958 --> 00:27:46,708
I am very much I'm figuring it out,
doing pretty well, having a lot of fun

589
00:27:46,708 --> 00:27:50,108
on the way, and I will share as much as
I can so that you can figure it out too.

590
00:27:50,648 --> 00:27:56,278
And I realized that I had been so caught
up in the operations of Generalist World,

591
00:27:56,278 --> 00:28:00,078
and we've now got a small team that comes
with payroll and all that kind of scary

592
00:28:00,078 --> 00:28:07,158
stuff, that I'd lost my magic a little bit
of the transparency building in public.

593
00:28:07,568 --> 00:28:10,498
Basically my rhythm, I'd lost
my building and public rhythm.

594
00:28:11,038 --> 00:28:15,608
And I wanted to make sure that
particularly the GW members had that

595
00:28:15,628 --> 00:28:20,588
access, had that insight into what
generalist world is, where we're

596
00:28:20,588 --> 00:28:24,768
going, how they can be involved and
how it all fits into the bigger picture

597
00:28:24,798 --> 00:28:26,368
of this future of work, because.

598
00:28:26,593 --> 00:28:29,393
So many people within the community
really care about this stuff.

599
00:28:29,963 --> 00:28:34,013
And so last month I was like, okay,
I'm going to experiment with an

600
00:28:34,033 --> 00:28:36,453
email just for GNRossWorld members.

601
00:28:36,483 --> 00:28:39,533
And it's going to be like
a behind the curtain.

602
00:28:39,593 --> 00:28:41,683
It's going to be like raw, vulnerable.

603
00:28:41,953 --> 00:28:45,143
It's going to go deep on the, I think
I called it a little letter, which

604
00:28:45,143 --> 00:28:46,853
was completely incorrect because

605
00:28:47,143 --> 00:28:47,873
Nola Simon: it was a little, it

606
00:28:47,873 --> 00:28:48,493
Milly Tamati: was really long.

607
00:28:49,663 --> 00:28:49,933
Yeah.

608
00:28:51,373 --> 00:28:54,713
Nola Simon: So it was the
best thing I read last month.

609
00:28:55,328 --> 00:28:59,668
It was really the best thing, I mean
your writing ability is why I'm part of

610
00:29:00,288 --> 00:29:04,818
the community to begin with, like you
just captured my heart with everything

611
00:29:04,818 --> 00:29:09,248
that you're able to write and convey
and like that personally is your

612
00:29:09,248 --> 00:29:11,348
true gift for, from my perspective.

613
00:29:11,348 --> 00:29:15,818
So that, I read that and I
was immediately like, Millie,

614
00:29:15,818 --> 00:29:16,558
you need to be on my podcast.

615
00:29:17,248 --> 00:29:19,988
Milly Tamati: Yeah, literally,
actually replied to that email.

616
00:29:20,178 --> 00:29:21,168
Yeah, I did.

617
00:29:21,988 --> 00:29:25,338
And just a note on the writing, because
I think that's really important we

618
00:29:25,338 --> 00:29:30,338
have a, what I call like a writing
culture at GW, where every single person

619
00:29:30,338 --> 00:29:32,138
on the team is a brilliant writer.

620
00:29:32,378 --> 00:29:37,448
And that's not by accident, that's
by design because to be a brilliant

621
00:29:37,448 --> 00:29:39,458
writer, and when I say brilliant, clear.

622
00:29:39,868 --> 00:29:43,918
They are able to be really clear
and they can execute really well

623
00:29:43,928 --> 00:29:45,448
on their like writing needs.

624
00:29:45,818 --> 00:29:50,578
And the reason I obsess so much
over that and really look for

625
00:29:50,588 --> 00:29:54,078
that in hires is because it just
means they're great thinkers.

626
00:29:54,288 --> 00:29:55,518
They're really clear thinkers.

627
00:29:55,538 --> 00:29:57,878
If they can really think things
through and then write it

628
00:29:57,878 --> 00:29:59,588
down, that they understand it.

629
00:29:59,638 --> 00:30:01,358
And Communication, right?

630
00:30:01,668 --> 00:30:08,518
Like particularly with AI going
Like everywhere, being a great

631
00:30:08,518 --> 00:30:10,188
communicator is going to be everything.

632
00:30:10,208 --> 00:30:14,578
Whether you're communicating with
people or a machine learning, I think

633
00:30:14,628 --> 00:30:20,168
writing is going to be perhaps one
of the most important skills in 2025.

634
00:30:20,668 --> 00:30:22,718
To be a really clear, thoughtful writer.

635
00:30:22,758 --> 00:30:26,458
If I could give advice to young
people, it would be just practice.

636
00:30:26,738 --> 00:30:27,758
Because writing is a skill.

637
00:30:27,858 --> 00:30:30,238
I think if you, some people come
out of school and they're like,

638
00:30:30,238 --> 00:30:33,208
oh, but I didn't do well in
English, or I'm not a good writer.

639
00:30:33,558 --> 00:30:34,428
You can learn.

640
00:30:34,538 --> 00:30:37,138
You can learn to be a clear
writer and a clear thinker.

641
00:30:37,168 --> 00:30:40,383
And in fact, a lot of the lessons that
you learn in school, Aren't going to

642
00:30:40,383 --> 00:30:44,833
serve you, particularly in the world
of like business and startups and tech.

643
00:30:45,053 --> 00:30:47,533
Those very like structured sentences.

644
00:30:47,773 --> 00:30:51,383
It's more about finding your
voice and having an opinion.

645
00:30:51,673 --> 00:30:54,163
I think a lot of the stuff I see
particularly on socials these

646
00:30:54,163 --> 00:30:56,533
days is almost like lukewarm.

647
00:30:56,743 --> 00:31:01,043
Like it's like people have lost
their Their stake in the ground

648
00:31:01,043 --> 00:31:02,273
or Hey, this is my opinion.

649
00:31:02,273 --> 00:31:06,103
And then particularly on LinkedIn, I think
we've also lost our ability to like debate

650
00:31:06,493 --> 00:31:08,123
and actually just have differing opinions.

651
00:31:08,123 --> 00:31:11,693
It's like a little bit of an echo
chamber, which I do try and challenge.

652
00:31:11,973 --> 00:31:12,693
My posts.

653
00:31:12,958 --> 00:31:16,608
I try and I guess say the quiet
things out loud, and I think

654
00:31:16,608 --> 00:31:18,678
that's often why they resonate.

655
00:31:18,708 --> 00:31:23,868
It's because if you're thinking something,
I almost guarantee others are thinking it.

656
00:31:23,878 --> 00:31:27,468
They just may not have had the language
or the courage or the confidence,

657
00:31:27,488 --> 00:31:29,658
whatever it might be, to say it out loud.

658
00:31:30,118 --> 00:31:30,488
Nola Simon: Yeah.

659
00:31:30,698 --> 00:31:31,748
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

660
00:31:32,118 --> 00:31:36,018
And honestly, I started the podcast
in part because I wanted to challenge

661
00:31:36,018 --> 00:31:37,668
myself to become a better listener.

662
00:31:38,168 --> 00:31:42,768
It wasn't necessarily about, yes, there's
a speaking aspect to it as well too, but

663
00:31:43,118 --> 00:31:48,578
what I wanted to learn from podcasting
was how do I ask better questions?

664
00:31:48,578 --> 00:31:49,598
How do I ask deeper questions?

665
00:31:50,278 --> 00:31:51,928
But how do I listen better?

666
00:31:51,928 --> 00:31:56,818
Because I like thinking, I like my
own thoughts and I found that I was

667
00:31:56,868 --> 00:32:01,328
interrupting people and that was
something that I wanted to actually

668
00:32:01,348 --> 00:32:05,968
train myself out of, and I wanted to
do it in such a way that I was doing

669
00:32:05,968 --> 00:32:08,288
it publicly to hold myself accountable.

670
00:32:08,848 --> 00:32:13,008
But I wanted to be able to learn and I
wanted other people to be able to learn

671
00:32:13,008 --> 00:32:16,308
from the experiment as well, too, which
is why I did it publicly in a podcast.

672
00:32:17,398 --> 00:32:20,568
Milly Tamati: Amazing, kudos to you, and
I, you just named it, but I was like,

673
00:32:20,748 --> 00:32:24,878
Nola, that is an experiment, this is a
career, like, all of these things the more

674
00:32:24,878 --> 00:32:29,358
I think about it, the more examples I see,
everyone people are just running these

675
00:32:29,358 --> 00:32:33,393
little mini career experiments, and they
don't have, maybe the podcast last, For

676
00:32:33,393 --> 00:32:35,493
10 years, maybe it lasts for 10 months.

677
00:32:35,503 --> 00:32:36,223
It doesn't matter.

678
00:32:36,553 --> 00:32:38,023
You're learning skills along the way.

679
00:32:38,023 --> 00:32:40,503
You're becoming a better
listener along the way.

680
00:32:40,533 --> 00:32:45,033
And just like kudos to you for having
the self awareness of Hey, I actually

681
00:32:45,033 --> 00:32:47,883
think this might be a skill that I
could sharpen, that I could hone.

682
00:32:48,103 --> 00:32:49,313
What's a cool way.

683
00:32:49,313 --> 00:32:53,443
What's a what's an experiment that I could
run that would help me sharpen that skill.

684
00:32:53,463 --> 00:32:55,183
So I think that's really brilliant.

685
00:32:55,513 --> 00:32:55,873
Nola Simon: Yeah.

686
00:32:55,993 --> 00:32:58,703
And going back to, how
long does the podcast last?

687
00:32:59,053 --> 00:33:02,653
I'm actually, you are like
the second to last guest.

688
00:33:02,653 --> 00:33:03,603
I have one more person.

689
00:33:03,943 --> 00:33:08,543
And then next year, I want to look at
all of the episodes that I've done and

690
00:33:08,543 --> 00:33:11,813
figure out what I've learned from them and

691
00:33:11,813 --> 00:33:12,923
then

692
00:33:12,953 --> 00:33:13,583
Nola Simon: dig deeper.

693
00:33:13,633 --> 00:33:17,053
So I'm not going to do any guests
next year, but it's like, how

694
00:33:17,053 --> 00:33:19,913
do you take the knowledge that
exists in a hundred episodes?

695
00:33:20,638 --> 00:33:23,688
And then do that deeper, right?

696
00:33:23,698 --> 00:33:28,258
So I'm thinking maybe I might do essay
type episodes where I'm connecting

697
00:33:28,718 --> 00:33:32,408
everything that we've learned from
like various episodes to actually

698
00:33:32,448 --> 00:33:37,288
deepen and connect and see what
avenues we can actually go down.

699
00:33:37,288 --> 00:33:40,408
So I might actually only
release like 12 episodes, like

700
00:33:40,408 --> 00:33:41,798
more than a month next year.

701
00:33:42,408 --> 00:33:43,978
But the goal is really.

702
00:33:44,473 --> 00:33:48,443
It's not necessarily more, because
I, more can just be noise, right?

703
00:33:48,443 --> 00:33:50,103
So what is it you've learned?

704
00:33:50,603 --> 00:33:54,343
My, everybody wants to publish all
the time, but it's I think at some

705
00:33:54,343 --> 00:33:58,533
point you need to slow down and
figure out how you go deeper, right?

706
00:33:58,533 --> 00:33:58,933
That's

707
00:33:58,933 --> 00:34:00,933
Milly Tamati: my experiment for next year.

708
00:34:01,763 --> 00:34:06,843
Yeah, I wonder if an interesting prompt,
like the prompt that got you here was

709
00:34:06,863 --> 00:34:08,313
how can I become a better listener?

710
00:34:08,683 --> 00:34:12,803
And I wonder if the prompt for the next
one is what do I want to learn this year?

711
00:34:12,943 --> 00:34:16,943
And maybe it's like how to synthesize
information or how to distribute

712
00:34:17,523 --> 00:34:19,893
content, whatever it might be.

713
00:34:20,173 --> 00:34:22,993
And then that could form the
basis of your next experiment.

714
00:34:23,593 --> 00:34:23,733
Nola Simon: Yeah.

715
00:34:23,733 --> 00:34:24,503
I'm excited.

716
00:34:24,613 --> 00:34:26,293
Milly Tamati: I'm excited to
see what you come up with.

717
00:34:26,703 --> 00:34:27,083
Nola Simon: I know.

718
00:34:27,083 --> 00:34:29,433
Yeah, because I look at some
of these podcasts and they have

719
00:34:29,483 --> 00:34:33,673
800 episodes and I'm like, what
does anybody learn from that?

720
00:34:33,673 --> 00:34:36,953
Because I'm not going to do a deep
dive and listen to 800 episodes.

721
00:34:37,003 --> 00:34:39,763
I find it overwhelming when I
look at your podcast that way.

722
00:34:39,763 --> 00:34:41,943
And I'm like, I don't
even know where to start.

723
00:34:42,998 --> 00:34:44,238
Milly Tamati: Yeah, I hear you.

724
00:34:44,278 --> 00:34:47,668
And I just need to call
out 100 is amazing.

725
00:34:48,258 --> 00:34:51,048
I think the average most
people get to is like 3.

726
00:34:51,308 --> 00:34:51,798
I know.

727
00:34:51,808 --> 00:34:53,778
Or 10, like I've heard.

728
00:34:53,788 --> 00:34:55,388
Yeah, it's really low.

729
00:34:55,389 --> 00:34:57,360
It's the fabulous quad

730
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:57,853
Nola Simon: fade.

731
00:34:58,473 --> 00:35:00,753
Milly Tamati: The
consistency is fantastic.

732
00:35:00,773 --> 00:35:04,733
And just while it's on my mind you
mentioned about asking really good

733
00:35:04,733 --> 00:35:07,873
questions, which I think you've done
in this episode and one resource

734
00:35:07,873 --> 00:35:12,083
I'd just love to call out because it
has been like, I don't want to say

735
00:35:12,083 --> 00:35:15,223
life changing people throw that word
around, but it has been, and it's

736
00:35:15,223 --> 00:35:18,113
a book that will Stick in my soul.

737
00:35:18,443 --> 00:35:22,253
It was actually recommended to me
by Robert Barris, who is in GW.

738
00:35:22,263 --> 00:35:26,973
He's a GW and it's called
a more beautiful question.

739
00:35:27,343 --> 00:35:30,713
And I can't remember the name of the
author, but if you look up a more

740
00:35:30,713 --> 00:35:36,463
beautiful question, it's all about the
importance of questioning and how like the

741
00:35:36,463 --> 00:35:42,213
right questions can be like transformative
how if leaders can ask better questions.

742
00:35:42,453 --> 00:35:43,703
That's how you unlock.

743
00:35:44,088 --> 00:35:47,578
Almost everything and it actually ties
into the communication piece as well.

744
00:35:47,598 --> 00:35:51,118
So if Listeners are
really like avid readers.

745
00:35:51,118 --> 00:35:54,118
Like I am I would strongly recommend
trying to get your hands on a

746
00:35:54,118 --> 00:35:56,068
copy of a more beautiful question.

747
00:35:56,488 --> 00:35:56,868
Nola Simon: Okay.

748
00:35:56,978 --> 00:35:58,308
Yeah, no that's a great answer.

749
00:35:58,648 --> 00:36:03,038
I did there, Michael Bungay Stainer
has a book on questions as well too.

750
00:36:03,048 --> 00:36:06,948
He's a Canadian coach, so yeah,
I'll look for that one as well too.

751
00:36:07,458 --> 00:36:11,938
Because that It's guiding me to but
you get information from everywhere and

752
00:36:11,938 --> 00:36:14,918
that's actually something there's some
there's one person I would adore to

753
00:36:14,928 --> 00:36:20,148
have on my podcast and I haven't managed
to land her and Her name's Amy Herman.

754
00:36:20,248 --> 00:36:20,908
Do you know Amy?

755
00:36:22,513 --> 00:36:24,623
So she actually is an art historian.

756
00:36:24,623 --> 00:36:25,663
She started as a lawyer.

757
00:36:25,673 --> 00:36:27,203
She became an art expert.

758
00:36:27,223 --> 00:36:32,483
And what she does is she teaches
about how to observe from art.

759
00:36:32,553 --> 00:36:40,313
So she actually teaches the FBI, CAA,
police forces around the world by training

760
00:36:40,313 --> 00:36:42,673
them how to actually interpret art.

761
00:36:43,278 --> 00:36:45,808
She's an art historian, like she amazing.

762
00:36:45,988 --> 00:36:46,418
Yeah.

763
00:36:46,418 --> 00:36:49,508
And so she has two books it's
called her book, her company is

764
00:36:49,508 --> 00:36:50,688
called the art of perception.

765
00:36:51,188 --> 00:36:53,828
And the, her second
book was called fixable.

766
00:36:53,838 --> 00:36:57,958
So if you're looking for books to
actually amplify how you perceive

767
00:36:57,958 --> 00:37:01,928
and how you question those two, I
recommend, and especially for me,

768
00:37:01,928 --> 00:37:03,388
I'm not a visual thinker at all.

769
00:37:03,388 --> 00:37:04,088
I'm not an artist.

770
00:37:04,138 --> 00:37:09,598
I, like I peeked at kindergarten
and For me, doing that kind of work

771
00:37:09,618 --> 00:37:15,168
that really stretches my brain to
think, how do I think differently

772
00:37:15,418 --> 00:37:17,468
and ask questions in a different way?

773
00:37:17,768 --> 00:37:19,648
I lean into my weakness.

774
00:37:19,703 --> 00:37:21,553
I love it.

775
00:37:21,553 --> 00:37:24,443
Yeah, that, those are my two
book recommendations for that.

776
00:37:24,643 --> 00:37:25,043
Yeah.

777
00:37:25,043 --> 00:37:26,183
Actually three, three right there.

778
00:37:26,263 --> 00:37:26,643
Sorry.

779
00:37:26,923 --> 00:37:27,243
Brilliant.

780
00:37:27,243 --> 00:37:28,333
Too many books we're reading.

781
00:37:28,773 --> 00:37:29,283
All right.

782
00:37:29,343 --> 00:37:30,023
For

783
00:37:32,403 --> 00:37:36,193
the big uncomfortable question, where
do you want Generalist World to go?

784
00:37:36,273 --> 00:37:40,583
Like it, say we're talking
like 2030, where do you think

785
00:37:41,443 --> 00:37:42,713
Generalist World will be?

786
00:37:42,713 --> 00:37:43,693
What have you achieved?

787
00:37:43,703 --> 00:37:46,533
What would make you
thrilled beyond belief?

788
00:37:48,408 --> 00:37:52,268
Milly Tamati: Thrill Beyond Belief
would be to have like systematic change.

789
00:37:52,278 --> 00:37:54,418
So change within our organizations.

790
00:37:54,438 --> 00:38:00,098
I think we've done pretty darn great
job on the generalist side, on building

791
00:38:00,098 --> 00:38:03,568
people's confidence, on giving them
language, on bringing them together,

792
00:38:03,968 --> 00:38:09,838
helping them feel like validated and seen
and heard, and now our next big giant

793
00:38:10,378 --> 00:38:13,358
enormous hurdle is on the system side.

794
00:38:13,368 --> 00:38:19,298
So that's where do generalists fit in, in,
in organizations and how can organizations

795
00:38:19,328 --> 00:38:23,548
actually leverage their generalist talent,
not just squeeze them into this box of

796
00:38:23,548 --> 00:38:25,368
okay, this is your very narrow role.

797
00:38:25,668 --> 00:38:26,818
How can we create pathways?

798
00:38:27,158 --> 00:38:29,958
Basically how can we create
amazing pathways for generalists

799
00:38:29,968 --> 00:38:35,198
to lead these careers that are like
expansive rather than narrowing?

800
00:38:35,228 --> 00:38:37,598
Because not everyone wants
to go to a narrow point.

801
00:38:37,828 --> 00:38:41,008
Some people, like me, I want
my career to keep expanding,

802
00:38:41,018 --> 00:38:42,638
that makes me really excited.

803
00:38:42,938 --> 00:38:46,648
But there's no obvious pathways
apart from entrepreneurship would

804
00:38:46,648 --> 00:38:49,928
be one way to do it, which is
probably what drew me into it.

805
00:38:50,308 --> 00:38:53,418
But I think there's a real
opportunity for organizations to

806
00:38:53,418 --> 00:38:57,298
get on board as well and to create
these pathways for their generalist

807
00:38:57,308 --> 00:38:59,758
talent, which they absolutely have.

808
00:38:59,968 --> 00:39:04,828
In their org anyway they just don't
know how to promote or retain or

809
00:39:04,828 --> 00:39:07,138
frankly support that talent diversity.

810
00:39:07,468 --> 00:39:11,828
So in 2030 I would love for
it just to be like, almost not

811
00:39:11,828 --> 00:39:14,148
even a thing, just like normal.

812
00:39:14,473 --> 00:39:19,423
For this to be a talked about talked
about, acknowledged, valued thing

813
00:39:19,433 --> 00:39:23,723
in organizations that there is
this cognitive diversity and that

814
00:39:23,723 --> 00:39:28,413
it's really important to actually
recognize that and see generalists on

815
00:39:28,413 --> 00:39:30,543
a level playing field as specialists.

816
00:39:30,758 --> 00:39:35,068
And see that even though our skills
are different in the sense that they

817
00:39:35,068 --> 00:39:38,588
can be a lot harder to measure and
we can often like play in the gaps

818
00:39:38,588 --> 00:39:42,848
between like departments and stuff
that they're incredibly valuable.

819
00:39:42,918 --> 00:39:44,118
That would probably be my answer.

820
00:39:44,858 --> 00:39:45,518
Nola Simon: Very cool.

821
00:39:45,608 --> 00:39:47,108
The lattice, not the latter.

822
00:39:47,938 --> 00:39:48,568
Milly Tamati: yes.

823
00:39:48,568 --> 00:39:49,648
Connections.

824
00:39:50,118 --> 00:39:50,508
Nola Simon: Yeah.

825
00:39:50,563 --> 00:39:51,763
Not the straight and narrow.

826
00:39:52,753 --> 00:39:53,053
I like that.

827
00:39:53,053 --> 00:39:53,683
Absolutely.

828
00:39:54,043 --> 00:39:56,473
But yeah, there, there
needs to be a lot changing.

829
00:39:56,473 --> 00:39:59,233
And do you think that AI
can actually help with that?

830
00:39:59,293 --> 00:40:03,153
Because I've done several podcasts
actually that AI use in hiring and

831
00:40:03,423 --> 00:40:06,123
how AI can be used to identify.

832
00:40:06,653 --> 00:40:09,443
skill sets that you don't even
know that people actually have.

833
00:40:09,453 --> 00:40:15,483
Do you think that AI can actually be the
magic that actually unlocks the generalist

834
00:40:15,483 --> 00:40:18,269
skill set, depending on how it's used?

835
00:40:18,269 --> 00:40:19,462
Milly Tamati: Yeah, great question.

836
00:40:19,462 --> 00:40:21,452
There's a lot in there.

837
00:40:21,452 --> 00:40:27,235
My thesis is that generalist
thinking plus generalist tooling,

838
00:40:27,535 --> 00:40:31,825
and by tooling, AI tools really,
is the unlock for everything.

839
00:40:31,835 --> 00:40:35,480
When you give generalists All of
this these tools, which make their

840
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,940
workflows so much more efficient and
more creative and give them space.

841
00:40:39,220 --> 00:40:40,270
For me, that's where like.

842
00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:42,470
Major innovation is going to happen.

843
00:40:42,850 --> 00:40:46,750
But in terms of the recruitment
side I would say there is a lot

844
00:40:46,750 --> 00:40:48,560
of people trying to figure it out.

845
00:40:48,910 --> 00:40:51,080
Recruitment is just a beast in itself.

846
00:40:51,140 --> 00:40:55,640
Like we talk, like we're talking
about like human resources when you

847
00:40:55,650 --> 00:40:58,260
think about it, like even in the
name, like maybe we need to have

848
00:40:58,260 --> 00:40:59,590
a little bit of a rebrand there.

849
00:41:00,140 --> 00:41:00,460
I don't know.

850
00:41:00,460 --> 00:41:02,160
I'm an eternal optimist.

851
00:41:02,715 --> 00:41:05,385
on all things and that also includes AI.

852
00:41:05,425 --> 00:41:10,715
I know it comes with potential like really
questionable, like challenges and ethical

853
00:41:10,715 --> 00:41:12,585
challenges as well and implications.

854
00:41:12,865 --> 00:41:16,535
But on the whole, I think that
it can be a force for good.

855
00:41:16,905 --> 00:41:22,260
How that Like tangibly plays out in
recruitment and in the workplace.

856
00:41:22,890 --> 00:41:23,730
We'll see.

857
00:41:23,790 --> 00:41:28,470
I know that there's a lot of people really
trying to crack that code because I think

858
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:32,890
if there's one thing we all agree on,
it's that the way that we hire doesn't

859
00:41:32,890 --> 00:41:35,310
really work, the system is pretty broken.

860
00:41:35,420 --> 00:41:36,680
The old CV.

861
00:41:38,215 --> 00:41:40,895
A thousand people applying
with a A4 piece of paper.

862
00:41:41,075 --> 00:41:43,455
I think we can probably do a
little bit better than that.

863
00:41:43,975 --> 00:41:45,195
But we'll see how it plays out.

864
00:41:45,215 --> 00:41:50,245
I think the next five years are
going to be exceptionally fast moving

865
00:41:50,295 --> 00:41:54,365
and fast changing, like just, I'm
not sure how often you're using

866
00:41:54,375 --> 00:41:56,665
AI, but I am using Claude, all day.

867
00:41:57,415 --> 00:41:57,625
Yeah.

868
00:41:57,655 --> 00:41:58,225
All day.

869
00:41:58,295 --> 00:41:59,305
I am like jamming.

870
00:41:59,325 --> 00:42:00,155
Me and Claude.

871
00:42:00,595 --> 00:42:01,465
It's like my bestie.

872
00:42:01,775 --> 00:42:06,235
I can't remember what life was like
before Claude and Claude is probably

873
00:42:06,235 --> 00:42:09,275
like the equivalent of a three
month old, do you know what I mean?

874
00:42:09,285 --> 00:42:09,305
Yeah.

875
00:42:09,306 --> 00:42:15,945
Like it's changing so rapidly, so quickly
that I think, I'm grateful to have

876
00:42:15,945 --> 00:42:19,755
spaces like Generalist World because
the, what we're stepping into if anyone

877
00:42:19,755 --> 00:42:22,675
tells you they know what it is, they're
just lying or they're guessing, like

878
00:42:22,675 --> 00:42:24,035
no one actually knows what's coming.

879
00:42:24,345 --> 00:42:29,075
And so to have spaces like GW means that
you're with a group of people who there

880
00:42:29,075 --> 00:42:34,720
is a deep sense of safety and a deep sense
of trust and a sense that, hey, We're

881
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:36,570
going to figure this thing out together.

882
00:42:36,610 --> 00:42:39,510
And we're actually in a better
position because we've got each

883
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:42,170
other's back because we're in
the circle with each other.

884
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,590
And even though we don't know what's
coming collectively we're stronger.

885
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,460
And that's what makes me
really excited about community.

886
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:49,280
Nola Simon: Yeah.

887
00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:52,820
And I just wanted to bring a brief
shout out to one of the things that

888
00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:54,380
happens in general in this world.

889
00:42:54,670 --> 00:42:56,550
And that, and I haven't
been brave enough to do it.

890
00:42:56,580 --> 00:42:58,360
And that is the hot seat.

891
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,700
So I've attended two as a guest.

892
00:43:01,950 --> 00:43:05,890
And what hot seats are really is
people come with questions that

893
00:43:05,890 --> 00:43:08,180
they really want eyeballs on that.

894
00:43:08,180 --> 00:43:10,030
They, a lot of times it's personal.

895
00:43:10,030 --> 00:43:11,170
How do I get a job?

896
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:12,550
How do I transition myself?

897
00:43:12,850 --> 00:43:14,670
How do I position myself?

898
00:43:15,020 --> 00:43:15,700
How do I?

899
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:18,220
Identify like the top skills.

900
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:20,800
How do I stack them together
and tell that story?

901
00:43:20,810 --> 00:43:22,800
A lot of times that's
what the hot seats are.

902
00:43:22,860 --> 00:43:28,050
But they are intense, but boy,
do people come away with honest,

903
00:43:28,180 --> 00:43:30,450
open feedback lots of process.

904
00:43:30,590 --> 00:43:34,460
That's why I haven't been brave
enough to actually try it.

905
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,500
What's the most amazing
thing that you feel about

906
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:37,770
Milly Tamati: hot

907
00:43:37,770 --> 00:43:38,040
Nola Simon: seats?

908
00:43:40,030 --> 00:43:42,960
Milly Tamati: I think the most
amazing thing is that it is

909
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:44,530
one person is in the hot seat.

910
00:43:44,530 --> 00:43:48,530
So one person comes usually with
a specific challenge or problem or

911
00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:50,230
sticky thing that they need support on.

912
00:43:50,650 --> 00:43:55,850
And the beauty of generalist world is you
have this diversity of people and skills

913
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,850
and backgrounds and ages and locations.

914
00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:00,330
And so you're getting this diversity.

915
00:44:00,410 --> 00:44:04,830
Again, it's a safe place to be like,
Hey, I'm feeling a bit vulnerable here.

916
00:44:04,830 --> 00:44:06,130
I've got this problem or challenge.

917
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:07,050
I need help.

918
00:44:07,380 --> 00:44:09,670
And then you're getting
all of these insights.

919
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,500
And I think what the beautiful, my
favorite part of it is that even though

920
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:19,940
the person who called the hot seat is
getting helped, everyone is learning.

921
00:44:20,210 --> 00:44:22,070
Like every hot seat I've ever been on.

922
00:44:22,090 --> 00:44:22,340
I'm like.

923
00:44:24,165 --> 00:44:29,095
Hot dang, like no one leaves a hot
seat without learning something,

924
00:44:29,145 --> 00:44:33,245
even if they are not the one with the
challenge, even if they're not the

925
00:44:33,245 --> 00:44:34,705
one in the hot seat, everyone learns.

926
00:44:34,745 --> 00:44:38,255
And so it's a, it's again, just so
many examples of community where it's

927
00:44:38,255 --> 00:44:41,975
just a net positive, where if you
bring these people together in a space

928
00:44:42,005 --> 00:44:46,465
and shout out to Edger, who's our
community events and ops person she

929
00:44:46,495 --> 00:44:48,455
runs these hot seats like clockwork.

930
00:44:48,455 --> 00:44:53,370
It's And yeah, she's created these spaces
where it's a difficult thing to do to

931
00:44:53,370 --> 00:44:57,990
create a space where people know that they
can actually show up and be vulnerable.

932
00:44:58,210 --> 00:45:02,200
Like we've had some, we've had some
deep hot seats where it's, it can

933
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:03,760
be professional, it can be personal.

934
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,110
It's usually a mix of both.

935
00:45:05,140 --> 00:45:06,700
'cause life exists like that.

936
00:45:06,700 --> 00:45:07,900
It's complex and messy.

937
00:45:08,330 --> 00:45:11,650
And it's just really amazing to have
this space, which I don't know, it's

938
00:45:11,650 --> 00:45:13,510
kinda like a group therapy session.

939
00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:14,270
But we are like.

940
00:45:14,755 --> 00:45:19,595
I think the hot seats are where the most
transformative change happens for people.

941
00:45:19,605 --> 00:45:23,035
If they commit to that hot seat and
they come along that's where things

942
00:45:23,035 --> 00:45:25,745
can really shift and it's just
super cool to be a part of that.

943
00:45:26,085 --> 00:45:26,385
Nola Simon: Yeah.

944
00:45:26,675 --> 00:45:26,935
Yeah.

945
00:45:26,935 --> 00:45:33,395
It's very vulnerable to do and we'll
do one at one point, but yeah, it's

946
00:45:33,475 --> 00:45:34,165
Milly Tamati: No pressure.

947
00:45:34,255 --> 00:45:36,215
Nola Simon: Takes a lot
to to actually do it.

948
00:45:36,765 --> 00:45:39,065
But anyways, one of the, one
of the most interesting things

949
00:45:39,065 --> 00:45:40,285
I find about generalist rule.

950
00:45:41,445 --> 00:45:43,425
So is there anything else that we
haven't covered that you want to

951
00:45:43,425 --> 00:45:44,655
make sure that we're talking about?

952
00:45:45,155 --> 00:45:48,875
Milly Tamati: This has been such a fun
conversation, wide ranging, interesting.

953
00:45:50,165 --> 00:45:54,265
So no, just like if people, if this
resonates with people come and say,

954
00:45:54,265 --> 00:45:55,855
hi, we're a very friendly bunch.

955
00:45:56,125 --> 00:45:58,295
We've got wonderful people
like Nola in the community.

956
00:45:58,345 --> 00:46:02,525
And so if this resonates the thing is
that the great thing about generalist

957
00:46:02,525 --> 00:46:07,755
world from a product standpoint is
people either like deeply resonate

958
00:46:07,755 --> 00:46:10,825
with it and they're like, what, like,
where has this been all my life?

959
00:46:10,855 --> 00:46:11,955
Or they're like, I don't get it.

960
00:46:11,985 --> 00:46:12,975
I have no idea what this.

961
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:14,880
That doesn't apply to me.

962
00:46:15,010 --> 00:46:16,570
I fit in and it's all good.

963
00:46:16,970 --> 00:46:20,100
So like people can like opt
in or out pretty easily.

964
00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:23,210
So if people are listening to
this thing, like I'm in the opt

965
00:46:23,210 --> 00:46:25,520
in camp come and check out www.

966
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:26,390
generalistworld.

967
00:46:26,390 --> 00:46:28,250
com and yeah, we'd love to meet you.

968
00:46:28,310 --> 00:46:31,550
We're very active on LinkedIn
and TikTok to a point.

969
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:32,890
So come say hi.

970
00:46:33,380 --> 00:46:34,960
Nola Simon: Yeah that's
how we started chatting.

971
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:35,700
So it's fun.

972
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:37,880
Milly Tamati: Community people are cool.

973
00:46:38,470 --> 00:46:41,450
Nola Simon: Thank you so much for
joining us and we'll make sure that

974
00:46:41,450 --> 00:46:42,740
we put everything in the show notes

975
00:46:42,790 --> 00:46:42,990
Milly Tamati: yay.

976
00:46:43,390 --> 00:46:43,510
All right.

977
00:46:43,510 --> 00:46:45,438
so much, Nola.

978
00:46:46,078 --> 00:47:03,478
I'll see you next time.