Community with Rosie Sherry

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Nola Simon: Thank you
so much for joining me.

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I'm Nola Simon.

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I'm the host of Highway
Remote Center of Excellence.

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Say that three times fast.

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Today we have a guest from the UK.

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Where exactly are you from, Rosie?

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Rosie Sherry: I'm in Brighton
in the UK, the south coast.

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Nola Simon: Ah, I'm
familiar with the beaches.

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I haven't been there,
but I've heard of them.

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Anyways, our guest is Rosie Sherry, and
she is an expert in all things community.

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She started ministry and
testing, what, back in 2007?

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And so that has grown to its
community of thousands of users, and

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it brings in millions of dollars.

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And in addition, she also runs another
community called Rosyland, which is

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dedicated to all things community.

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So Rosie, when I was exploring
communities, and I keep continuing

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to explore communities because
I haven't figured it out myself.

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She was the expert that
I came across online.

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Literally, I think it was
more Twitter initially.

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And then more linked in now.

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But she has a way of explaining
community that nobody else does, I find.

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And I found her approach really relatable.

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You started ministry testing because
you had 2 kids at home and it was a way

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that you could start a business, right?

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Did I get that correct?

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

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Nola Simon: And it's grown since then.

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And recently you had to step back.

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You had initially headed it
off to a CEO and then recently

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you stepped back in as CEO.

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Is that correct?

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

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Nola Simon: So could you tell
us more about your journey with

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community and where that started?

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah, so I guess I've
been in tech since around 2000 the year

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2000, which is a bit scary to, to say
I started off as a software tester.

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I got like my first job as a software
tester, hence ministry testing that

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came along probably seven years later.

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But as I was working in tech I started
going to local meetups in Brighton it

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was quite an active geeky type scene and
I was just inspired about all the things

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that were happening, and I stumbled
across the idea of community, and I

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enjoyed the local community aspect and
as the web was grown, it was like web 2.

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0 era.

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For me there was like a lot of kind
of excitement around all of that.

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And yeah, mostly once I discovered
the idea of community, I could,

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I was like, that became my thing.

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I just couldn't forget.

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What community, the idea of community
to me, it just stuck with me and I've

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never been able to let it go since.

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So since I've discovered that and like
community has always been like how I start

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things and, or how I think about things.

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And I started a local meetup.

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It was a woman in tech.

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It was a meetup.

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called Brighton Girl Geek Dinners and
that was like my first step into like

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actually doing community things and that
kind of opened my eyes to how special

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community can be and like I ran it for
probably a couple of years, and it was

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like, always fully booked out, and I met
loads of people and, still in contact

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with many of them even like 20 years
on, and it's that was I guess as a

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introverted style person that I am, that
was like a real kind of eye opener for me.

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Yeah, after that I was looking for
an excuse to apply community to the

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ideas I had or the work I wanted to do.

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And at that time as well, there
were like no community jobs really.

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It just wasn't, I think.

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Nola Simon: Yeah, it was
like a job that came later.

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This is the type of job that,
when you were a kid, you didn't

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imagine it could be a real job.

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

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I remember seeing like job
ads at the time, like for

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Yelp and community managers.

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So there were a few startups that kind
of had started to adopt that role,

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that me and Brighton, those jobs in San
Francisco was like never going to happen.

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Nola Simon: I know how that feels.

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I'm from Canada.

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Nothing ever interesting
ever happens in Canada.

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah, so I just was
always looking for opportunities

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to do my own community thing.

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I ran a co working space for a while and
then I also decided to start ministry

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of testing because I felt like there
could, there should be a better community

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for software testers, which at the
time there wasn't really much at all.

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Nothing that I really approved of.

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So I used it as an excuse
just to start something.

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I had no real idea that it would turn
into something, but it was just something

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I wanted to try, play with, see where
it goes and yeah, I guess that's what,

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partly what I'm, I've discovered that
I'm good at is just I just do stuff

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and then figure stuff out and either
suffer the consequences or suffer with

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the success along the way as well.

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Nola Simon: Yeah, no,
that's very interesting.

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So in terms of administrative
testing that's the part of your

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work that I actually don't relate
to at all because I don't have that

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kind of software background at all.

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So what's the purpose of community?

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It's to share expertise and you
offer courses as well, right?

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah, so I would call
it like a community of practice.

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So it's essentially for software testing
professionals or quality assurance

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engineers, they go by a few names.

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And it's a space to gather and to
hopefully learn more and advance.

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People's careers and we do conferences.

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So at the moment we do one
conference a year in Brighton.

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Nola Simon: Yes, you just
did that though right?

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Yeah, because I've seen things online
people really complimenting, you know

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how engaging it was and just appreciating
the, like the in person touch.

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So that's an interesting aspect Of
community, because we got away from

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it, obviously, during the pandemic.

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So are people really
excited about in person?

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Do you think that's.

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And aspect of community
that's going to develop.

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Rosie Sherry: I think so.

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And I think so pre pandemic we, it was
a bit crazy to be honest, but we had

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as ministry of testing grew we had nine
conferences across the world in the, in

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2019 which feels like really crazy now.

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But post pandemic we've gone back down
to just one conference and the idea

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at the moment is just to have that one
conference a year and put much more

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effort into it and hopefully make it
bigger than what it's been before.

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Is there an appetite for it, like 100%?

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It's like people, yeah,
I think people need it.

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I don't think they're realising how
much they need it until they show up.

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And it's once they show up that they're
like, ah, this is exactly what I needed,

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this is like the break I needed from work,
or this is just like reconnecting with

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people, or getting to meet people in real
life that they've connected with online.

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And yeah, I think we've
just forgotten that.

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And, partly, a big part of that is the
pandemic, but when people go, they,

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they don't regret going in my opinion,
especially this past conference, which

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I think we've leveled up the experience
and got amazing feedback from it.

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And it was a product manager who attended
And she shared on LinkedIn, I can't

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remember her name off the top of my head,
but she was sharing on LinkedIn how, just

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like, how amazing it felt and how jealous
of FOMO she had that software testers had

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this space to gather and she didn't feel
like The product managers had that same

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kind of space with that community feel.

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Where everyone's literally
supporting each other.

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And the speakers have
grown up in the community.

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Nola Simon: Oh, so you bring in
people who are actually members of

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the community to actually speak.

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Rosie Sherry: That's cool.

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Yeah, like, all our effort is like,
all our kind of I guess you, you

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call it marketing effort, but all our
effort is focused on the community and

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uplifting the community and trying to
get them to publish their first article.

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Or do their first talk or, speak
at a conference or, all our

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effort is like community first.

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It's the people in the community.

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We don't go outside
seeking other speakers.

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Don't do keynote talks.

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We've never done keynote talks.

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For example, it was just like every
talk is a talk from the community.

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So you're really focusing on the

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Nola Simon: relationships that build
within the community themselves.

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

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And it really makes a difference
because people know these people and

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they can identify with them, right?

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And they can see, oh, I know that person.

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I've spoken to him or we've been in touch.

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He's never spoken and
now he's up on stage.

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And the vibe that gives as well is
that you have like people like cheering

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them on, or if they're struggling,
you can really see that the crowd

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is like supporting them rather
than criticizing them, for example.

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So the online

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Nola Simon: connection is
really fueling the in person.

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

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So I guess like some conferences
happen once a year for us.

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The conference is just
part of the community.

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So really we're like
planning all year round.

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We, we publish content all year round
and all year round, we're looking for new

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speakers and those sparks was, connections
that, or, information or trends that

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might be of value to the community.

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And we're trying to get better at
spotting it and then bringing it to the

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conference as like the icing on the cake,

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Nola Simon: so you mentioned
before we started recording

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that you're a deep introvert.

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So how does an introvert
plan a conference?

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Because I would assume that a
lot of people in that type of

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profession tend to be introverts.

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I could be completely wrong
there, but that's my perception.

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So how does a conference for introverts
in person differ from the standard

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conference that's planned by extroverts?

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah, I say introverted
these days I'd probably use

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neurodivergent, being neurodiverse.

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But, whatever it is, it's people
struggle in, In real life situations

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and say, how do you make it
feel more comfortable for them.

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And part of it again is going back
to community and feeling welcomed

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and supported and things like that.

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And another part is creating a variety
of activities or meetups or events

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that are happening so that, hopefully
there's something for everybody.

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But like a big part of it.

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I feel, sometimes I feel like I harp
on a lot about community, but it's so

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many of the people arrive and they're
like really nervous and but like the

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moment they step in, they're welcomed
by the community or there's there's

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this culture of everyone's checking
in on other people or people standing

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alone, and they might go up to them
and say hello or just checking on them.

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Nola Simon: I saw you write on
thread something about that.

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Somebody had mentioned the fact
that they were nervous that a

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community just standing around, or
they were at a conference and they

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were just standing around and just
having that awkward conversation.

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It was like the worst experience ever.

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And you're like, just.

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Being generous enough to go up to somebody
and say hi, that's the most generous thing

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that you could do to, for somebody at a
group, if you see them standing alone.

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Rosie Sherry: Yeah, and it's part of
the culture so it's like everyone is

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literally doing it because they experience
it and they see How great it can feel

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and how it brings that belonging.

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And it just like naturally
ends up extending.

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And it's not just oh, let's,
this is what we want to see.

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It's that's happened over the years.

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And like when, we try to communicate it.

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And then run up to it, we have the
host on stage who also communicates it.

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So it's like we're trying to really embed
this culture of we're all here to support

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each other, and we're all actually quite
friendly, or we're all struggling a bit.

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And, it's just yeah, for whatever
reason, it's just it's become

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a big part of what Ministry of
Testing and Test Bash is all about.

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And it's pretty, pretty amazing to
see that, to be honest, because I

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do go to other conferences and no
one ever comes up to me, other tech

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conferences and it's just sometimes I
just like wonder why am I even here?

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So it's yeah, I guess there's the,
there's a Pac Man model as well, which

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is one way they talk about it, so
it's it's like when you're having a

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conversation with other people, they
always leave a gap like Pac Man's mouth.

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So that others can come in, stand
in and listen, and maybe join in.

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So people have naturally
started doing that as well, as

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trying to welcome people in.

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Nola Simon: You want to leave windows
and doors open so that people can feel,

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see entrances into the conversation.

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I've been part of groups like that
before and it's you have no idea when

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these guys are going to stop talking.

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It's hey, I don't know how to do this.

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Yeah, I one of my first employee resource
group meetings that I ever went to, I,

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I remember walking in and I'd never done
one of those and it was a whole bunch of

225
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executives and I just, I didn't know who
to talk to, even though I'd worked for

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the company for over probably 15 years at
that point, the majority of people from

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my division weren't usually the ones who
attended those types of events, right?

228
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And I went in and I, I
didn't know what to do.

229
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So I went to my table.

230
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Because we were assigned tables and I just
sat thinking that, once dinner started,

231
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at least that way, it would be natural.

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I'd have somebody on either side of me.

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At least conversation would start
to float the table and I just.

234
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sat there by myself.

235
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And this woman that I used to actually
work for, she was my skip level.

236
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So my boss's boss, she saw me at the
table and she came over and gave me this

237
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big hug and introduced me to people.

238
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And then people started
rising at the table.

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So she started introducing me
to people around the table.

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And honestly, without her breaking
that ice, I was just, I was so

241
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grateful that it's like, Oh, okay.

242
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Now that I've been
introduced, I feel better.

243
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And she just made me feel
like I had a place there.

244
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Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

245
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Nola Simon: I can relate.

246
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I can relate.

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Rosie Sherry: We've also done things
like for quite a few years now,

248
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we do lean coffee in the morning.

249
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So there's like a few tables set aside.

250
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And lean coffee is basically like
people writing down in post it notes

251
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things that they want to talk about.

252
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And then people float on them around the
table and they just start talking about

253
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those things that they've written down.

254
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So it's like a small group thing.

255
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And so things like that really help to
give people, another option of meeting

256
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people and having conversations with
people, perhaps without the small

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talk, because a lot of people struggle.

258
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Nola Simon: So do you run
that around the world?

259
00:15:03,079 --> 00:15:06,209
So not just in Brighton, but because
your community is global, right?

260
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Do you have the

261
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Rosie Sherry: community is global?

262
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Yeah, the conference is just
in Brighton at the moment.

263
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But we do have localized meetups, like
kind of community volunteer led as well.

264
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I think it's about 40
of them at the moment.

265
00:15:21,869 --> 00:15:25,279
It was like 100 pre
pandemic, but obviously.

266
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Pandemic does that.

267
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Yeah, we do a lot of stuff online.

268
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We do monthly virtual events as well.

269
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Again, people who speak on those
all come from the community.

270
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So literally our source of voices
is 100 percent from the community.

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Nola Simon: Very cool.

272
00:15:51,174 --> 00:15:53,474
And one thing I like about the
way you position your work,

273
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especially for Rosalind is you
are the source for all community.

274
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You research so you do all the research
so that other people don't have to.

275
00:16:01,274 --> 00:16:02,594
So I think that's genius.

276
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What trends are you seeing right
now that you think are either

277
00:16:07,224 --> 00:16:09,474
helpful or hindering community?

278
00:16:10,024 --> 00:16:12,494
Rosie Sherry: Yeah, I guess
like AI is an obvious one.

279
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I think it's

280
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probably hindering more at the moment.

281
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Nola Simon: Yeah, I saw
a post you wrote on that.

282
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Rosie Sherry: It's a nightmare like
with content and if you have a community

283
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where anyone can submit content or
write something, a lot of communities

284
00:16:26,939 --> 00:16:32,159
are really like struggling with how
to deal with that because it's just so

285
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much, I guess I would call it AI spam.

286
00:16:35,089 --> 00:16:40,209
It's we had spam before, but now it's
100x like what we, what used to exist.

287
00:16:40,239 --> 00:16:40,549
And.

288
00:16:41,099 --> 00:16:45,979
It's, 100x harder to spot it or
to figure out how to deal with it.

289
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:46,959
So are

290
00:16:46,959 --> 00:16:51,349
Nola Simon: people like using it
to post and comment or like both?

291
00:16:51,349 --> 00:16:51,879
Yeah.

292
00:16:52,169 --> 00:16:52,519
Really?

293
00:16:52,579 --> 00:16:52,909
Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

294
00:16:52,909 --> 00:16:53,275
So

295
00:16:53,275 --> 00:16:58,510
Nola Simon: what's the point of Using AI
to comment, because, personally for me,

296
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comments are how I express my opinion, how
I express my value, to share expertise.

297
00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:10,400
To filter that through AI, I don't
know that I would get value from

298
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,260
that, for me personally, right?

299
00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:13,660
What's the point of even commenting?

300
00:17:13,810 --> 00:17:14,430
I don't get it.

301
00:17:15,810 --> 00:17:16,320
Rosie Sherry: I don't know.

302
00:17:16,730 --> 00:17:20,755
There's tools now that will auto
Also create comments for you,

303
00:17:20,765 --> 00:17:21,985
like on social, isn't there?

304
00:17:22,445 --> 00:17:26,435
So it's so you can leave so many
comments and they look genuine,

305
00:17:26,435 --> 00:17:27,725
but they're not really genuine.

306
00:17:27,785 --> 00:17:31,835
Or they read the posts that you're
commenting on to try to sound authentic.

307
00:17:32,365 --> 00:17:33,975
And it's just yeah, I just don't get it.

308
00:17:33,976 --> 00:17:34,855
It was like, what's the point?

309
00:17:34,915 --> 00:17:38,196
And, places like product
don't have a lot of AI spam.

310
00:17:38,296 --> 00:17:40,766
People always trying to play
the game, always trying to,

311
00:17:41,236 --> 00:17:42,736
ends up becoming not really bad.

312
00:17:43,306 --> 00:17:46,796
community it ends up becoming about
trying to get as many upvotes so that

313
00:17:47,136 --> 00:17:52,196
then that might somehow turn into
click throughs or more sales or more

314
00:17:52,566 --> 00:17:58,576
awareness of the product Right and like
sometimes comments can influence the

315
00:17:58,576 --> 00:18:02,931
algorithm Whether that's true or not,
that's, generally like what they say is

316
00:18:02,941 --> 00:18:07,741
that the more comments, the more chance
it has of being featured and stuff.

317
00:18:07,741 --> 00:18:10,651
So people will play the game and
they'll use AI to support that.

318
00:18:10,951 --> 00:18:11,201
Yeah.

319
00:18:11,241 --> 00:18:16,821
And it's just Yes, it's just not great
and I did work at Indie Hackers I

320
00:18:16,821 --> 00:18:21,721
led the community there for a couple
of years and that was pre AI hype

321
00:18:21,791 --> 00:18:27,691
but like they suffered a ton from
spam in general And I saw as AI was

322
00:18:27,691 --> 00:18:33,031
becoming popular as like a lot of the
comments on the posts were AI generated

323
00:18:33,701 --> 00:18:34,951
And it's hard to deal with, right?

324
00:18:34,951 --> 00:18:38,240
It's just as a community person, you
don't want to have to deal with that.

325
00:18:38,291 --> 00:18:41,941
But and, yeah, it causes extra work
for anyone who's trying to run it.

326
00:18:42,441 --> 00:18:44,531
Probably work that they don't want to do.

327
00:18:45,131 --> 00:18:46,370
Nola Simon: How are you managing that?

328
00:18:46,371 --> 00:18:49,796
Are you deleting posts
that are obvious AI?

329
00:18:49,796 --> 00:18:50,420
I

330
00:18:52,601 --> 00:18:53,671
Rosie Sherry: don't
actually have that problem.

331
00:18:53,671 --> 00:18:54,761
It's just

332
00:18:54,761 --> 00:18:55,851
Nola Simon: it's a

333
00:18:55,851 --> 00:18:57,816
Rosie Sherry: problem like we see.

334
00:18:58,251 --> 00:18:58,891
Yeah.

335
00:18:59,181 --> 00:18:59,331
Okay.

336
00:19:00,531 --> 00:19:04,381
So we get minimal spam at
Ministry of Testing, but there

337
00:19:04,381 --> 00:19:06,161
is some, but not a huge amount.

338
00:19:06,611 --> 00:19:08,821
Nola Simon: Do you think that's
actually because of the connection?

339
00:19:10,451 --> 00:19:10,821
Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

340
00:19:11,841 --> 00:19:12,231
Nola Simon: Cool.

341
00:19:12,591 --> 00:19:13,411
I love that.

342
00:19:14,651 --> 00:19:18,321
Rosie Sherry: And because we don't
go out trying to create fake games.

343
00:19:18,321 --> 00:19:23,905
We don't go out trying to create fake
hype or there's no real motivation

344
00:19:23,905 --> 00:19:29,165
for people or reward for people who
do come in and comment on stuff.

345
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:35,790
We use a discourse as a forum and they're
quite good at like auto fragging like

346
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,940
suspicious behavior Okay, we make we
get that maybe a couple times a week.

347
00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:43,900
It's no big deal to manage right?

348
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:48,335
and A lot of that is because
we don't really focus on

349
00:19:48,335 --> 00:19:49,785
that kind of external growth.

350
00:19:49,865 --> 00:19:54,305
We're not like stressed out about trying
to get new people in and participate in.

351
00:19:54,305 --> 00:19:58,475
It's just the forum is just like
one part of our community strategy.

352
00:19:58,475 --> 00:19:59,675
It's not the community.

353
00:19:59,995 --> 00:20:05,385
It's I call it like the 80 20 rule
of conversations and community.

354
00:20:05,955 --> 00:20:08,095
A lot of people think of
community as community.

355
00:20:08,365 --> 00:20:09,855
It's all about the conversation.

356
00:20:10,195 --> 00:20:13,095
It's let's talk and have
fun and blah, blah, blah.

357
00:20:13,275 --> 00:20:18,515
But actually, constant conversation
is like really tiring and exhausting

358
00:20:18,515 --> 00:20:19,825
and people don't have time for that.

359
00:20:19,855 --> 00:20:25,625
Idea of the 80 20 rule is 20 percent
of community should be conversations.

360
00:20:25,665 --> 00:20:28,715
And then the other 80% Is other stuff.

361
00:20:28,835 --> 00:20:33,655
So like our forum is maybe 20 percent
of our efforts and the other 80 percent

362
00:20:33,825 --> 00:20:39,595
are articles we publish, the conference
we run, courses we produce, there's

363
00:20:40,245 --> 00:20:43,765
a whole list of other things that we
do that counts up for the other 80%.

364
00:20:44,055 --> 00:20:46,485
Nola Simon: So there's actually
action in addition to conversation.

365
00:20:46,485 --> 00:20:46,995
Yeah.

366
00:20:47,095 --> 00:20:47,565
Action.

367
00:20:47,955 --> 00:20:51,465
And that, that, that combination,
like people often join community

368
00:20:51,465 --> 00:20:55,695
because they're looking for not just
support, but they're actually looking

369
00:20:55,695 --> 00:20:57,855
for transformation of some sort.

370
00:20:58,745 --> 00:20:58,765
Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

371
00:20:59,265 --> 00:21:01,985
Nola Simon: So if you're helping
people achieve goals that they

372
00:21:01,985 --> 00:21:08,525
have personally and professionally,
then that's, is that the key to,

373
00:21:08,585 --> 00:21:10,015
to really having community stick?

374
00:21:10,015 --> 00:21:10,455
Do you think?

375
00:21:11,915 --> 00:21:12,725
Rosie Sherry: I think so.

376
00:21:13,235 --> 00:21:14,105
I really do.

377
00:21:14,135 --> 00:21:16,075
And it's definitely easier
said than done, right?

378
00:21:16,085 --> 00:21:20,295
But at Ministry of Testing the goal
is perhaps they want to stay on top of

379
00:21:20,295 --> 00:21:24,335
trends that are happening, so that's
something we're giving more focus on,

380
00:21:25,015 --> 00:21:28,985
and making it easier for the community
to learn about trends that are happening.

381
00:21:29,475 --> 00:21:34,045
But another thing is, a lot of people
have a goal of being a speaker, right?

382
00:21:34,215 --> 00:21:35,735
Getting up on that stage.

383
00:21:36,155 --> 00:21:39,845
So we then design things
in to enable that.

384
00:21:40,340 --> 00:21:45,410
Whether it's a simple encouragement
of submitting to speak, that's

385
00:21:45,410 --> 00:21:47,150
always like a good first step, right?

386
00:21:47,470 --> 00:21:52,270
But then another thing is like a
test bash, which is our conference.

387
00:21:52,270 --> 00:21:57,370
We've done it since our second ever
conference, but I came up with this idea

388
00:21:57,370 --> 00:22:01,250
that wouldn't it be great if anybody
had the opportunity just to get up on

389
00:22:01,250 --> 00:22:03,010
stage just to get a little bit of tape.

390
00:22:05,130 --> 00:22:08,120
So I came up with the idea
of doing 99 second talks at

391
00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,670
the end of a conference day.

392
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,690
So anyone can stand in the queue,
get up on stage, talk about

393
00:22:13,770 --> 00:22:16,420
absolutely anything for 99 seconds.

394
00:22:16,770 --> 00:22:22,350
We have a buzzer, we set the timer,
they go, they talk, we buzz them

395
00:22:22,350 --> 00:22:25,130
if they go over the limit and
then the next person comes on.

396
00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:32,710
Nola Simon: Okay, so you're on stage,
you take the action, you're fighting your

397
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,910
like, imposter syndrome, and you actually
get a sense of achievement, right?

398
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:39,720
And do you get feedback?

399
00:22:39,770 --> 00:22:41,970
Do you get feedback for that speaking or?

400
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:44,740
Rosie Sherry: You get the feedback
from the audience, and it's amazing,

401
00:22:44,780 --> 00:22:46,390
like everyone's like cheering them on.

402
00:22:46,620 --> 00:22:47,010
Okay.

403
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,970
So there's that aspect, we record all the
talks, then it goes on to our website.

404
00:22:53,055 --> 00:22:57,015
So they can show it to other people.

405
00:22:57,285 --> 00:22:59,895
They have proof of their contribution.

406
00:23:00,445 --> 00:23:04,645
And now at the moment, as we're building
our Ministry of Testing further,

407
00:23:04,705 --> 00:23:10,500
and we're going increasingly down
the route of just, Custom building

408
00:23:10,530 --> 00:23:15,840
everything pretty much apart from the
forum and then, they get that talk

409
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,470
on their profile page So now we're
introducing profile pages which becomes

410
00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:25,820
a portfolio and it becomes something
more It gives you know, the sense of

411
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,910
they are contributing to the community

412
00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:28,550
Nola Simon: right

413
00:23:28,590 --> 00:23:32,600
Rosie Sherry: and here's a proof
of it and Not quite like a Facebook

414
00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:36,410
page or LinkedIn page, eventually
one day it'll get there, but right.

415
00:23:36,830 --> 00:23:37,700
So is it externally

416
00:23:38,110 --> 00:23:39,760
Nola Simon: accessible, the profile page?

417
00:23:39,770 --> 00:23:40,210
Yeah.

418
00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:42,350
Oh, that's cool.

419
00:23:42,730 --> 00:23:45,990
So you can build it out and use it
as like a mini profile or portfolio.

420
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:47,390
Rosie Sherry: Yeah,

421
00:23:47,490 --> 00:23:49,220
Nola Simon: more active
you are in the community.

422
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:50,530
I like that.

423
00:23:50,550 --> 00:23:51,390
That's really cool.

424
00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:59,130
Rosie Sherry: Sorry, a phrase I said the
other day is like, why should all the

425
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,040
social networks have all the fun, right?

426
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:08,170
So I'm trying to bring that in, but into A
community that's ours and it's a community

427
00:24:08,170 --> 00:24:10,960
that's not owned by a big tech company.

428
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,660
We're just trying to build something
like really special and we've got we've

429
00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:16,670
got photos now we call them memories.

430
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,390
So now people can post photos.

431
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,840
So our conference that just passed.

432
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,590
We've, started building a collection
of photos that anyone can add.

433
00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:27,860
And people can add memes as well.

434
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:30,900
So we're building up this, knowledge
base, community knowledge base.

435
00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:35,070
I would call it, and where
everyone can contribute, right?

436
00:24:35,130 --> 00:24:38,690
And these ideas aren't new.

437
00:24:39,010 --> 00:24:41,250
It's there's memes,
there's Instagram, right?

438
00:24:41,250 --> 00:24:47,590
But it's actually Let's do that within our
community, let's own the data, let's not

439
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:53,430
let the big socials like, be forever in
power, and let's see what we can do for

440
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:58,050
ourselves and People are loving it, we're
doing it on a really small budget, but

441
00:24:58,100 --> 00:24:58,720
Nola Simon: we're trying.

442
00:24:59,190 --> 00:25:03,300
Yeah, it's amazing how happy GIFs
and memes can make people laugh.

443
00:25:04,980 --> 00:25:05,420
It's still true.

444
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:06,802
It is still true.

445
00:25:06,802 --> 00:25:10,140
For all the people who try to
tell us that it's not cool Gen

446
00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:12,600
Z it still makes people laugh.

447
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:12,970
It's very

448
00:25:12,970 --> 00:25:13,290
Rosie Sherry: cool.

449
00:25:13,670 --> 00:25:14,190
Nola Simon: Exactly.

450
00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:15,620
It's very cool, yeah.

451
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:19,855
It's actually interesting to think
about, The profile page in conjunction

452
00:25:19,855 --> 00:25:22,755
with AI, because one of the most
interesting uses I've come across

453
00:25:22,755 --> 00:25:25,445
with AI when I'm testing AI at all.

454
00:25:26,385 --> 00:25:29,215
And when I say test, I'm just using it.

455
00:25:30,565 --> 00:25:35,235
I literally start with a question of
tell me about an assignment and it pulls

456
00:25:35,265 --> 00:25:40,755
in anything that I've done on LinkedIn
or anything on my website and whatnot.

457
00:25:40,765 --> 00:25:43,935
And if you don't recognize me,
that means that I don't know what

458
00:25:43,955 --> 00:25:46,265
data you're crawling, but it's not.

459
00:25:46,975 --> 00:25:49,875
The data that are like, it's
not the places that I am, right?

460
00:25:49,875 --> 00:25:54,625
So I like perplexity because
perplexity knows really who I am.

461
00:25:54,635 --> 00:25:58,135
So I'm like, okay they pick up my media,
they pick up my podcast, they pick up

462
00:25:58,605 --> 00:26:00,335
LinkedIn, they pick up all of this stuff.

463
00:26:00,395 --> 00:26:05,265
So to have a publicly profile,
like a public profile page that's

464
00:26:05,295 --> 00:26:09,395
indexed by search, that's actually
helping building out yeah.

465
00:26:10,050 --> 00:26:11,080
Personal branding, right?

466
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:13,750
And that's the interesting
thing about personal branding.

467
00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:16,110
Going forward is it's it's
not just what's on Google.

468
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:17,520
It's not just what's on LinkedIn.

469
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,040
It's not what you put on your resume,
but it's like, what is a I going

470
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,140
to know about you and if you're not
a public person and you're not in

471
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:26,590
media, you don't have a podcast.

472
00:26:27,020 --> 00:26:28,210
What does it know about you?

473
00:26:28,650 --> 00:26:30,370
And so that's interesting.

474
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,200
For software developers who aren't
necessarily public people, how does

475
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,780
that publicize them in a way that is
advantageous for the future of work?

476
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:42,160
Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

477
00:26:42,830 --> 00:26:43,760
And that's interesting, right?

478
00:26:43,790 --> 00:26:45,830
I think that's where AI can come.

479
00:26:46,210 --> 00:26:46,700
Yeah.

480
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,500
Would be helpful in coming, rather than
AI creating content for people, it's

481
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:56,440
like actually AI, Making it easy to find
information or data about people, right?

482
00:26:56,490 --> 00:26:56,800
Yeah,

483
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,970
Nola Simon: that discoverability,
I think, is what's interesting,

484
00:26:59,970 --> 00:27:01,480
and how does it connect dots?

485
00:27:01,490 --> 00:27:04,850
That's what I'm interested
in, is because there's so much

486
00:27:04,850 --> 00:27:06,470
information in the world these days.

487
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:08,430
It's like, how can you filter it?

488
00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:10,930
And Google search is being
weird lately, personally.

489
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:13,130
So AI is interesting, too.

490
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:15,150
But, anyways, that's just an aside.

491
00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:19,835
But I think what you're doing Has a
lot of potential, is what I'm saying.

492
00:27:21,735 --> 00:27:22,725
Rosie Sherry: I'm excited about it.

493
00:27:23,215 --> 00:27:27,035
The first time in a few years, I'm
actually like really excited about

494
00:27:27,095 --> 00:27:28,585
the work that we're doing again.

495
00:27:29,355 --> 00:27:33,295
It felt like there was this lull and
first pandemic and then there's like

496
00:27:33,335 --> 00:27:36,865
community hype and then it feels like
everyone's now forgotten about community.

497
00:27:36,865 --> 00:27:38,265
It's no longer the hype anymore.

498
00:27:38,765 --> 00:27:43,795
And there's this lull in community, but
like the deeper, like I go into trying

499
00:27:43,795 --> 00:27:46,385
to explore how to build community.

500
00:27:46,835 --> 00:27:51,785
Our way, from scratch, custom building
it, going through all the pains

501
00:27:51,785 --> 00:27:53,315
that are involved in that as well.

502
00:27:53,395 --> 00:27:57,405
I just it feels exciting again
to be like, building something.

503
00:27:57,785 --> 00:27:58,085
Yeah.

504
00:27:58,155 --> 00:28:01,645
Yeah, something unique, and
trying to do something different,

505
00:28:02,305 --> 00:28:03,435
trying not to be scared.

506
00:28:04,155 --> 00:28:07,875
With, people saying, oh, you're crazy
for doing that stuff, it'll never work,

507
00:28:08,295 --> 00:28:13,615
social media, whatever platform, they'll
always have the advantage over yourself.

508
00:28:14,115 --> 00:28:15,255
All those things, but it's like.

509
00:28:15,805 --> 00:28:19,045
Yeah, I just feel a bit more
excited partly the Fediverse,

510
00:28:19,085 --> 00:28:20,825
partly like open web stuff.

511
00:28:21,445 --> 00:28:26,385
I think, I have hope that the trend
is changing more towards that.

512
00:28:26,885 --> 00:28:31,515
And I'm definitely seeing a few more tech
people just disregarding the big socials.

513
00:28:31,565 --> 00:28:34,685
Twitter is an obvious one that
people have just left en masse.

514
00:28:36,855 --> 00:28:39,635
To be honest, I think people
feel the same with everything.

515
00:28:39,645 --> 00:28:44,885
Even Thread seems nice, or LinkedIn seems
nice, and they'll play in your favor for a

516
00:28:44,885 --> 00:28:47,475
while, but then they own your data, right?

517
00:28:47,475 --> 00:28:47,865
Yeah.

518
00:28:47,875 --> 00:28:52,605
And they opt you in to the AI
stuff without permission, but you

519
00:28:52,605 --> 00:28:56,905
can uncheck yourself, but people
mostly don't, or they're not aware.

520
00:28:57,675 --> 00:29:00,175
And to me, it's just I don't
want to play that game anymore.

521
00:29:00,555 --> 00:29:02,595
I've just I've decided I've had enough.

522
00:29:02,985 --> 00:29:03,455
Nola Simon: Yeah.

523
00:29:03,855 --> 00:29:05,245
So I'm part of generalist world.

524
00:29:05,245 --> 00:29:07,645
I know you're considering yourself
a generalist and I think you've

525
00:29:07,645 --> 00:29:10,425
consulted with Malik on how to
build that community, right?

526
00:29:10,725 --> 00:29:15,675
So it is the one group that I've been part
of where we've done the in person meetup.

527
00:29:15,685 --> 00:29:18,615
So I actually went to Toronto
what, two weeks ago now?

528
00:29:18,865 --> 00:29:20,745
It took me two and a half hours each way.

529
00:29:22,050 --> 00:29:23,840
Certainly a full time commitment.

530
00:29:24,180 --> 00:29:24,730
But it was fun.

531
00:29:24,740 --> 00:29:26,090
It was neat to find something.

532
00:29:26,090 --> 00:29:28,975
It was actually interesting because
a lot of the people who are actually

533
00:29:28,975 --> 00:29:31,345
there were potential community members.

534
00:29:31,345 --> 00:29:32,785
They weren't actually
part of the community.

535
00:29:32,785 --> 00:29:33,885
So I was like, oh, okay.

536
00:29:33,885 --> 00:29:37,945
So I found myself pitching a
lot of it, what the community

537
00:29:37,945 --> 00:29:39,155
was and what the potential was.

538
00:29:39,495 --> 00:29:41,895
But what was interesting
is he mentioned threads.

539
00:29:41,915 --> 00:29:44,165
I posted I took a picture of just.

540
00:29:44,625 --> 00:29:47,445
Toronto it's really just trying to
prove that I was in Toronto because

541
00:29:47,445 --> 00:29:50,985
I don't go very often right because
I'm north of the city and I took a

542
00:29:50,985 --> 00:29:53,705
picture I had Roy Thompson Hall in
front of it and then Seattle Tower.

543
00:29:53,705 --> 00:29:57,145
It was just those are recognizable
Toronto landmarks, right?

544
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,410
And I post it on threads and I just
put, every time I go to Toronto, I

545
00:30:03,410 --> 00:30:04,900
remember why I don't go to Toronto.

546
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:07,220
Meaning that the keeming was awful, right?

547
00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:09,170
Traffic was just awful, right?

548
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:11,780
And oh my God, people just jumped on me.

549
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,310
It, the whole thread went viral, but it
was like for completely the wrong reason

550
00:30:15,310 --> 00:30:18,490
because they're like if you don't want to
come to Toronto, don't come to Toronto.

551
00:30:18,490 --> 00:30:21,460
And it was just like all
of these negative people.

552
00:30:21,460 --> 00:30:23,970
They're like, what's your
problem with Roy Thompson Hall?

553
00:30:23,980 --> 00:30:26,820
And I'm like, I don't have a
problem with Roy Thompson Hall.

554
00:30:26,830 --> 00:30:28,700
It's a beautiful facility.

555
00:30:28,730 --> 00:30:30,190
I've been there once in my life.

556
00:30:30,190 --> 00:30:31,320
I don't care.

557
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,670
It's just in the picture because
that's where the CN Tower is, right?

558
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:39,030
Oh my goodness.

559
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:44,330
So yeah, it was interesting because I
like threads, but I do find that it still

560
00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:49,490
gets that type of like viral negativity
every so often that Twitter has.

561
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,520
It's interesting how it's pages.

562
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,840
Rosie Sherry: I've had a
couple of viral threads.

563
00:30:57,630 --> 00:31:00,340
I didn't get the negativity
though, so that's interesting.

564
00:31:01,460 --> 00:31:02,070
Block and mute.

565
00:31:04,220 --> 00:31:08,910
Yeah, I basically posted about
Twitter, and leaving Twitter,

566
00:31:09,180 --> 00:31:09,840
or something like that.

567
00:31:10,790 --> 00:31:11,280
What was it?

568
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,610
I got kicked out of a group.

569
00:31:16,150 --> 00:31:17,700
On Twitter for some reason.

570
00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:20,110
Yeah, I can't remember what it was

571
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,890
or something about Elon Musk
blocking me or no, it was

572
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,840
because I had blocked Elon Musk.

573
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,160
It wouldn't let me join.

574
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:38,860
Yeah, it wouldn't let me join their kind
of Twitter moderation group or something.

575
00:31:38,940 --> 00:31:39,390
Oh,

576
00:31:39,390 --> 00:31:41,870
Nola Simon: yeah, because you can be
part of the group if you had actually

577
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:45,550
blocked Elon Musk and you were like yeah,
I'm blocking him to be able to join.

578
00:31:47,445 --> 00:31:50,355
Rosie Sherry: So I posted a
screenshot of that, and it went viral.

579
00:31:50,465 --> 00:31:51,215
It was quite funny.

580
00:31:51,865 --> 00:31:54,295
But does it add value to
my life in any kind of way?

581
00:31:54,445 --> 00:31:54,715
Is it?

582
00:31:54,715 --> 00:31:55,645
Absolutely not.

583
00:31:56,545 --> 00:31:57,395
Did it bring followers?

584
00:31:57,945 --> 00:31:58,605
Not really.

585
00:32:00,455 --> 00:32:03,875
So it's I think it's I don't know,
I'm getting older, I just don't care

586
00:32:03,875 --> 00:32:05,465
anymore about that kind of stuff.

587
00:32:06,965 --> 00:32:11,505
And to be honest, I've just whilst I
still occasionally post, and I still

588
00:32:11,505 --> 00:32:18,245
will, but There's a term, it's post once,
syndicate everywhere, I think it is.

589
00:32:18,495 --> 00:32:25,405
P O S E so the idea is to like, first post
on your own platform, on your own website.

590
00:32:25,675 --> 00:32:28,065
And then cross post to yeah.

591
00:32:28,615 --> 00:32:31,475
But these days, I just I just
post to either Ministry of

592
00:32:31,475 --> 00:32:33,215
Testing or Rosyland for my stuff.

593
00:32:33,605 --> 00:32:37,805
And I barely bother anymore
with social, I just,

594
00:32:37,905 --> 00:32:38,555
Nola Simon: Yeah, I've
seen you a lot less.

595
00:32:38,555 --> 00:32:43,275
Rosie Sherry: Yeah, I just can't, I
don't have the yeah, I don't know.

596
00:32:43,965 --> 00:32:46,035
Nola Simon: I think there's a
general amount of these, basically.

597
00:32:46,055 --> 00:32:48,875
People are just not enjoying it.

598
00:32:48,885 --> 00:32:50,665
Honestly, I gotta tell
you, I love LinkedIn.

599
00:32:51,075 --> 00:32:52,725
I always did love LinkedIn.

600
00:32:52,745 --> 00:32:54,765
But it's been less fun this year.

601
00:32:54,825 --> 00:32:56,785
Something is in the air.

602
00:32:56,865 --> 00:32:59,545
And I don't exactly,
couldn't tell you what.

603
00:32:59,755 --> 00:33:01,155
And maybe it's the focus on video.

604
00:33:01,155 --> 00:33:02,555
Because I really just don't love video.

605
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:07,560
Rosie Sherry: You can barely tell
what platform you're on anymore,

606
00:33:07,610 --> 00:33:09,930
it's like sometimes I'm on LinkedIn
and I think I'm on Facebook.

607
00:33:10,750 --> 00:33:10,850
Nola Simon: Oh

608
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:11,250
Rosie Sherry: yeah.

609
00:33:11,860 --> 00:33:14,980
Nola Simon: And if you scroll the video
feed, like if you have the new video

610
00:33:14,980 --> 00:33:17,700
feed, it's oh my god, these are all
the people that I know from TikTok.

611
00:33:18,150 --> 00:33:23,020
But it's I've never seen those people
on LinkedIn before ever, right?

612
00:33:23,510 --> 00:33:25,540
So it's like, where does that come from?

613
00:33:25,540 --> 00:33:26,910
And it's I don't know.

614
00:33:26,910 --> 00:33:29,170
I just, I don't know that
there's so much value.

615
00:33:29,170 --> 00:33:30,250
You can share it.

616
00:33:30,250 --> 00:33:32,430
Like the videos have to
be like under 60 seconds.

617
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,660
And I tried, or is it 90, 90 seconds?

618
00:33:35,660 --> 00:33:38,620
I tried and I could only get
do two minutes and 20 seconds.

619
00:33:38,620 --> 00:33:41,460
And that is I couldn't cut it down
anymore because I'm like, I'm just,

620
00:33:41,460 --> 00:33:43,220
I'm not sharing anything useful.

621
00:33:43,870 --> 00:33:47,230
So it's I don't care if you don't
like me, but that's how long I need to

622
00:33:47,230 --> 00:33:48,960
be able to actually craft a message.

623
00:33:49,010 --> 00:33:52,830
But honestly, maybe that's
wrong because you do 99 seconds.

624
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,760
You have to get better at speaking.

625
00:33:57,590 --> 00:33:57,840
That's funny.

626
00:33:59,380 --> 00:34:02,470
Rosie Sherry: We'd love to, like
one of the ideas I'd love to do is

627
00:34:02,470 --> 00:34:07,730
actually do really short form videos
on MOT, like Reels, like TikToks.

628
00:34:08,130 --> 00:34:08,470
Yeah.

629
00:34:09,430 --> 00:34:10,560
I think that would be quite fun.

630
00:34:11,170 --> 00:34:11,490
Nola Simon: Yeah.

631
00:34:12,830 --> 00:34:14,020
Rosie Sherry: With us owning the data.

632
00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:14,650
Obviously.

633
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:15,460
Nola Simon: Yeah.

634
00:34:15,950 --> 00:34:16,880
Rosie Sherry: Not the social platforms.

635
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:17,740
Nola Simon: Yeah.

636
00:34:18,430 --> 00:34:19,730
I wanted to bring one thing up.

637
00:34:19,780 --> 00:34:22,460
You mentioned that people have
been going away from community

638
00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:23,940
and is starting to come back.

639
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:27,380
Before we started recording, I
got an email from somebody that I

640
00:34:27,380 --> 00:34:31,600
follow that I like and basically
they were talking about, like, how

641
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:32,940
to facilitate return to office.

642
00:34:32,940 --> 00:34:37,510
And one of the themes was,
So what's your theory?

643
00:34:37,570 --> 00:34:42,960
I know what my theory is about
immunity as part of an agenda, right?

644
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,410
Rosie Sherry: Yeah, that kind of, it
feels if someone like, All of a sudden

645
00:34:49,410 --> 00:34:51,370
springs the answer is community.

646
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,280
It feels just genuine.

647
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,080
It doesn't feel real, right?

648
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:56,980
It feels like another fad.

649
00:34:57,410 --> 00:35:00,930
It's we're doing back to office
because we want to build community.

650
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,590
I think most companies, if they
really wanted to do community, they

651
00:35:04,590 --> 00:35:06,130
would have been doing it anyways.

652
00:35:06,630 --> 00:35:10,470
And maybe if there's a back to office
thing, it's like, Considering the

653
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,710
communities or the people's voices in
that is do people really want to go back?

654
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:19,590
Or are they, have they really listened
to people that about their opinions

655
00:35:19,590 --> 00:35:22,090
or needs about going back to office?

656
00:35:22,695 --> 00:35:25,645
Nola Simon: And that's what I think
about a return to office community.

657
00:35:25,645 --> 00:35:31,215
It's is the topic of whether going back
or not off the table, because if that

658
00:35:31,215 --> 00:35:37,425
conversation isn't a conversation you're
willing to have, then automatically

659
00:35:37,425 --> 00:35:40,210
it's not a genuine community, right?

660
00:35:40,260 --> 00:35:43,020
Because you're limiting
the conversation, right?

661
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:47,720
Rosie Sherry: So it's also a
very ableist thing to do, right?

662
00:35:48,500 --> 00:35:52,230
It's like dismissing like
the needs of so many people.

663
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:53,610
And I think honestly, like

664
00:35:55,770 --> 00:35:59,010
a lot of good came from
COVID from that perspective.

665
00:35:59,070 --> 00:36:02,520
I've worked from home for 15 years,
but the fact that like working

666
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,550
from home became normalized,
I think it's amazing for.

667
00:36:07,180 --> 00:36:10,900
For so many people around the world,
new divergent people, mothers,

668
00:36:11,330 --> 00:36:14,860
it's just people with complicated
lives or, parents to care for.

669
00:36:14,980 --> 00:36:17,160
I almost have all of that
in my life at the moment.

670
00:36:18,010 --> 00:36:23,330
I've got my care for, I've got a new
divergency, we homeschool have five kids.

671
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:27,750
It's there's no way I'd be able to go
into an office, but it's like, can I

672
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:30,830
still build community in a sense of work?

673
00:36:30,830 --> 00:36:34,770
And what we do is yeah, But it doesn't,
it doesn't mean going into the office

674
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,870
and I, I definitely know with Ministry
of Testing if we force people into

675
00:36:38,890 --> 00:36:43,470
the office, it's like, everyone would
leave, it's not community focused if

676
00:36:43,470 --> 00:36:45,370
you're not taken into consideration.

677
00:36:46,265 --> 00:36:46,935
what people need.

678
00:36:47,485 --> 00:36:54,155
And I know in my circumstance, it wouldn't
be possible because of how people's

679
00:36:54,155 --> 00:36:56,185
lives have now adapted since COVID.

680
00:36:56,185 --> 00:37:00,055
It's there's been too much change to go
back, in my opinion, to and, often, I

681
00:37:00,075 --> 00:37:02,295
think, isn't that illegal to force that?

682
00:37:03,140 --> 00:37:05,780
onto people, isn't that
like discrimination, like

683
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,470
disability, like discrimination?

684
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,090
This is where if you can work from home,

685
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,780
Nola Simon: yeah, this is really where
the laws get interesting around the

686
00:37:14,780 --> 00:37:18,640
world, because like the UK is actually
being pretty thoughtful, I think,

687
00:37:18,650 --> 00:37:23,421
because isn't there a a law that where,
All companies have to at least consider

688
00:37:24,221 --> 00:37:29,081
the work from home request and actually
assess it so everyone can believe.

689
00:37:29,081 --> 00:37:33,401
So yeah, I just don't know what that
looks like in practice and whether

690
00:37:33,401 --> 00:37:38,606
it has any and if you're denied what
you're What your rights are basically.

691
00:37:38,606 --> 00:37:44,026
Think that's a whole area of development
that needs to really come into play to

692
00:37:44,026 --> 00:37:45,646
make sure that rights are respected.

693
00:37:45,646 --> 00:37:51,996
But that whole aspect of, does return to
office impact women, people who are older

694
00:37:52,096 --> 00:37:55,666
people who have neurodivergence, like
you mentioned, disabilities, physical

695
00:37:55,666 --> 00:38:01,316
disabilities as well, too, when you see
systems in place that are targeting those

696
00:38:01,346 --> 00:38:04,156
people, because those are the people who
are said that their lives are impacted

697
00:38:04,156 --> 00:38:06,086
negatively by going back to the office.

698
00:38:06,556 --> 00:38:10,736
Then that's a whole system
of oppression, right?

699
00:38:10,746 --> 00:38:16,026
So basically systems are
meant to continue, right?

700
00:38:16,036 --> 00:38:17,966
So they're built to continue.

701
00:38:17,966 --> 00:38:22,096
So my personal take is Return
to Office is an example of

702
00:38:22,406 --> 00:38:24,276
systems of oppression thriving,

703
00:38:26,876 --> 00:38:30,496
and that's a conversation that
not a lot of people are having.

704
00:38:31,036 --> 00:38:32,266
Rosie Sherry: And then
from the community aspect.

705
00:38:33,421 --> 00:38:37,751
I guess what I get annoyed about
and sometimes a bit, I wouldn't say

706
00:38:37,791 --> 00:38:44,191
angry, but protective with community
is, it's like using communities as

707
00:38:44,191 --> 00:38:49,541
an excuse to make Thanks Other things
happen because like when people say

708
00:38:49,541 --> 00:38:52,631
the word community everybody's oh,
yeah, of course, that sounds great.

709
00:38:52,681 --> 00:38:54,001
Oh, we'd love more.

710
00:38:54,001 --> 00:38:56,091
Yeah Oh, yes, let's buy into it.

711
00:38:56,511 --> 00:39:02,681
And like through the whole Pandemic
is that it's like community hype and

712
00:39:02,731 --> 00:39:07,450
Yeah, oh my god, like crypto stuff and
like people going into all this stuff

713
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,650
Crypto's community and I kept pushing
back and saying, it's not community

714
00:39:11,650 --> 00:39:12,740
what the heck are you talking about?

715
00:39:12,970 --> 00:39:16,900
This is not going to work and, but people
kept slapping the name community on it

716
00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:22,030
saying this is community or it's buy it,
buy this token or buy this NFT and you'll

717
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:27,210
automatically be part of this community
and find belonging and you can make money

718
00:39:27,250 --> 00:39:29,480
and this and that and it's just Yeah.

719
00:39:29,530 --> 00:39:35,170
Doesn't help like what community is
and what we can achieve and people

720
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:40,020
end up what I feel is like people are
disillusioned by the idea of community

721
00:39:40,020 --> 00:39:41,610
now they're like oh it's just hype.

722
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,040
Nola Simon: Because the focus isn't
on the members, it's not on that

723
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:45,850
connection, there's an agenda.

724
00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:50,540
Before I actually was restructured in
my work, I had founded like an employee

725
00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:55,080
resource group at my work family
because I knew as soon as people were

726
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,860
forced from home, the people who are
going to be impacted were the people

727
00:39:57,860 --> 00:40:01,650
who had children who had caregiving,
who had never worked from home before

728
00:40:01,650 --> 00:40:04,860
and didn't know how to manage how do
you work when you've got three kids?

729
00:40:05,390 --> 00:40:08,870
I knew that was going to be an
issue because I knew what it

730
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:10,420
was like to try to manage that.

731
00:40:10,910 --> 00:40:13,400
And I was really disappointed
the other day, they posted that

732
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,050
still community still exists,
even though I'm not there anymore.

733
00:40:16,420 --> 00:40:21,450
And they posted that it was all
about teaching kids about, financial

734
00:40:21,490 --> 00:40:23,420
literacy, but it's okay, that's great.

735
00:40:23,460 --> 00:40:27,440
That's a, it's a valid thing to teach
kids about, but it's that is directly

736
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,080
funneling into the products that you sell.

737
00:40:29,420 --> 00:40:32,520
So basically your community
is not necessarily focused

738
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,070
on family and the kids.

739
00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:35,920
Your community is really about.

740
00:40:36,210 --> 00:40:41,970
Building a potential new customers,
and that's really what your focus is.

741
00:40:41,970 --> 00:40:43,470
And I'm like five years later.

742
00:40:44,250 --> 00:40:48,740
You haven't actually learned what
community is about, and the focus is not

743
00:40:48,740 --> 00:40:50,390
on the people that you actually serve.

744
00:40:50,570 --> 00:40:52,010
And I'm like, that's so sad.

745
00:40:52,010 --> 00:40:55,490
It made me so sad, because I'm like,
that is not at all what I envisioned

746
00:40:56,050 --> 00:40:57,710
was the potential for the community.

747
00:40:57,710 --> 00:41:01,570
I visioned it as being a resource
to help people with their lives,

748
00:41:01,570 --> 00:41:01,835
help people with their needs.

749
00:41:02,045 --> 00:41:06,075
People with their work and basically
just be committed to like their

750
00:41:06,075 --> 00:41:11,505
belonging and wellbeing and, make it a
better place to work, not a funnel for

751
00:41:11,505 --> 00:41:13,575
potential new customers when they're 10

752
00:41:16,445 --> 00:41:17,495
. I just, yeah.

753
00:41:18,535 --> 00:41:22,735
It becomes transactional at that point
and it under undermines the trust I think

754
00:41:22,735 --> 00:41:24,595
that you have in the community organizers.

755
00:41:24,595 --> 00:41:24,655
Yeah.

756
00:41:27,335 --> 00:41:30,055
Rosie Sherry: It's also, stuff like
that, it's also a reason why I don't

757
00:41:30,075 --> 00:41:34,315
track our marketing efforts and stuff
like that, it's like, we have systems

758
00:41:34,315 --> 00:41:39,585
in place, we send emails, we do social
stuff, but I don't I tend to keep an

759
00:41:39,585 --> 00:41:44,315
eye on the graphs going upwards and
whether it's trending in a positive way.

760
00:41:44,655 --> 00:41:44,875
Yeah.

761
00:41:44,925 --> 00:41:46,945
But you open rates like crazy.

762
00:41:48,845 --> 00:41:53,055
No, and I don't track like sales that come
in, like when did they first subscribe?

763
00:41:53,135 --> 00:41:56,055
How long does it take them to become
a customer and stuff like that?

764
00:41:56,055 --> 00:41:58,685
It's of course, it's in the ideal
world, it'd be nice if they became

765
00:41:58,685 --> 00:42:03,155
a customer quicker rather than later
it would make our lives a lot easier.

766
00:42:03,195 --> 00:42:06,295
We could probably grow
quicker and stuff like that.

767
00:42:06,335 --> 00:42:09,875
But I've come to the conclusion
that it's just like too much work

768
00:42:09,995 --> 00:42:11,745
to even try to make sense of.

769
00:42:12,245 --> 00:42:16,765
How people make decisions where
purchases come from and actually

770
00:42:16,765 --> 00:42:21,345
often like a lot of our purchases
come from like training budgets.

771
00:42:21,355 --> 00:42:25,515
So there's no actual way to track it
from an individual because it would

772
00:42:25,525 --> 00:42:30,765
be a word of mouth or an internal
conversation that happens with the HR or

773
00:42:30,765 --> 00:42:33,425
training people to get budget sign off.

774
00:42:33,715 --> 00:42:37,365
And then that budget sign off
team would then come to us.

775
00:42:38,025 --> 00:42:42,915
Separately and say, buy something,
but like trying to connect it to the

776
00:42:43,175 --> 00:42:46,335
original source is like impossible.

777
00:42:46,655 --> 00:42:49,935
So like the idea of like tech
being able to track absolutely

778
00:42:49,955 --> 00:42:53,365
everything, I think, like for us,
it's just it's just overkill, right?

779
00:42:53,375 --> 00:42:59,655
You can spend so much time, time and
money, on all these things, or for me

780
00:42:59,665 --> 00:43:02,475
it's just or you can have fun along
the way and just do your best to grow,

781
00:43:03,325 --> 00:43:07,285
do your best to get people to sign
up, and keep your fingers crossed

782
00:43:07,285 --> 00:43:09,035
that people will like what you dO.

783
00:43:10,485 --> 00:43:13,865
Nola Simon: how do you quantify like
word of mouth and that connection

784
00:43:13,975 --> 00:43:18,275
if people are being drawn because of
the community aspect and the support

785
00:43:18,295 --> 00:43:19,795
like all of that kind of stuff.

786
00:43:20,345 --> 00:43:21,555
It's really hard to quantify.

787
00:43:21,565 --> 00:43:24,395
So you're probably even not
going to get great data on the

788
00:43:24,395 --> 00:43:26,295
reality of why people join.

789
00:43:27,045 --> 00:43:28,185
So you're probably wise.

790
00:43:29,225 --> 00:43:31,975
Rosie Sherry: Yeah, and then there's
in the community world, it's oh,

791
00:43:31,975 --> 00:43:34,815
what's a return on investment
on community and stuff, and it's

792
00:43:34,815 --> 00:43:37,015
just I just cannot get involved.

793
00:43:37,635 --> 00:43:38,055
Nola Simon: Yeah.

794
00:43:38,345 --> 00:43:41,695
Rosie Sherry: It's, it just feels like an
impossible task, or, pointless task, and

795
00:43:41,695 --> 00:43:47,025
it's I'd rather spend my time trying to
improve the industry, or trying to find or

796
00:43:47,025 --> 00:43:49,585
create better ways of building community.

797
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,010
Perhaps, that's what I've
ended up being good at.

798
00:43:54,330 --> 00:43:57,200
I guess that's how you people like
yourself like stumble across me

799
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,630
is because I just tried to push
forward with different ideas to

800
00:44:01,660 --> 00:44:03,240
get people to think differently.

801
00:44:03,650 --> 00:44:07,680
Yeah, about community because mostly
because I'm just frustrated like with.

802
00:44:09,255 --> 00:44:11,895
I like your genuineness, your honesty.

803
00:44:12,045 --> 00:44:16,695
Nola Simon: Honestly, that's I feel
that you're a straight talker and

804
00:44:16,695 --> 00:44:22,215
I can trust your expertise and your
advice and you come to things with

805
00:44:23,265 --> 00:44:25,295
what I feel is the right approach.

806
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:27,150
putting people first.

807
00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:31,250
I do have one last thing that I'd
like to bring up and that's the whole

808
00:44:31,250 --> 00:44:34,510
connection of the world loneliness
epidemic, if you'd like to call it

809
00:44:34,530 --> 00:44:38,070
that and how community can really help.

810
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:43,790
And it seems like it's a big, vast
topic, but I personally think big,

811
00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:48,078
vast topics are best solved with
Small approaches on a regular basis.

812
00:44:49,288 --> 00:44:50,158
What's your take on that?

813
00:44:50,158 --> 00:44:52,458
Rosie Sherry: Yeah a lot of people
would look at me and I'd say, Oh,

814
00:44:52,458 --> 00:44:56,188
you've got a lot of followers, or
you must be surrounded by people.

815
00:44:56,258 --> 00:44:59,298
But actually day to day, it's a
very small amount of people that I

816
00:44:59,298 --> 00:45:01,598
actually interact with closely, right?

817
00:45:02,098 --> 00:45:05,388
I think there's a lot of people
who, look at others and think, Oh,

818
00:45:05,388 --> 00:45:06,718
they must have it all together.

819
00:45:06,768 --> 00:45:08,308
But, actually we don't.

820
00:45:08,418 --> 00:45:13,978
And more recently I've been going
small and more intentional and I've

821
00:45:13,998 --> 00:45:19,438
picked out a handful of people and
we WhatsApp together and we just have

822
00:45:19,498 --> 00:45:24,448
this like agreement that we're going
to keep in touch whatever way we can.

823
00:45:24,448 --> 00:45:27,318
And sometimes it's just instead of
you could share a photo on Instagram

824
00:45:27,388 --> 00:45:28,728
or I could share it in a WhatsApp.

825
00:45:29,228 --> 00:45:29,558
Yeah.

826
00:45:30,088 --> 00:45:33,978
And the WhatsApp always gets a response
or always gets a conversation going.

827
00:45:34,118 --> 00:45:36,068
And it's always nice to see, right?

828
00:45:36,138 --> 00:45:38,498
But it's not the same in Instagram.

829
00:45:38,998 --> 00:45:39,308
Nola Simon: WhatsApp

830
00:45:39,658 --> 00:45:40,068
Rosie Sherry: doesn't have an

831
00:45:40,068 --> 00:45:40,828
Nola Simon: algorithm, right?

832
00:45:42,128 --> 00:45:45,078
Rosie Sherry: It doesn't
have an algorithm.

833
00:45:45,128 --> 00:45:46,698
It's more personal sometimes.

834
00:45:46,938 --> 00:45:47,148
Yeah.

835
00:45:47,148 --> 00:45:48,088
Depends how you use it.

836
00:45:48,588 --> 00:45:53,348
But I think like startups, especially
what, the tech world, they think they

837
00:45:53,348 --> 00:45:55,728
can solve loneliness through technology.

838
00:45:56,818 --> 00:46:00,228
And whilst I think it contributes
honestly, it's just We have to find

839
00:46:00,228 --> 00:46:06,168
ways to properly connect one to one
with people and have conversations and

840
00:46:06,168 --> 00:46:11,908
not rely on this spamming of groups or
thinking like, getting the attention

841
00:46:11,908 --> 00:46:16,848
or getting the virality is going to
all of a sudden help our loneliness.

842
00:46:16,848 --> 00:46:17,618
It doesn't.

843
00:46:17,658 --> 00:46:18,598
It doesn't help at all.

844
00:46:20,638 --> 00:46:25,008
And I guess if I was making
recommendations to people, I would, I'd

845
00:46:25,008 --> 00:46:29,228
say, think about your local community,
think about the people around you.

846
00:46:29,928 --> 00:46:35,678
Those are really the people, most
of the time, who you can, they will

847
00:46:35,678 --> 00:46:37,008
help you get out of that loneliness.

848
00:46:37,338 --> 00:46:42,883
It's like when you're Unwell when you're
unable to do something and it's the people

849
00:46:42,883 --> 00:46:47,363
around you who are close to you who can
actually give you what you need, if you

850
00:46:47,363 --> 00:46:52,203
need someone to go to the shop for you
and you've got a broken leg, whatever it

851
00:46:52,203 --> 00:46:54,833
Nola Simon: is, it's like local
people can help you, right?

852
00:46:54,883 --> 00:46:55,703
You just need sugar.

853
00:46:55,863 --> 00:46:56,973
Let's go back to the old days.

854
00:46:57,653 --> 00:46:58,923
Ask your neighbor for sugar.

855
00:47:01,473 --> 00:47:02,633
Rosie Sherry: It's so simple, right?

856
00:47:02,673 --> 00:47:04,433
But like people have forgotten it.

857
00:47:04,743 --> 00:47:04,993
Yes.

858
00:47:06,413 --> 00:47:07,873
That's, that's my strategy.

859
00:47:07,963 --> 00:47:11,393
That's my intentional strategy at
the moment is I'm guilty of falling

860
00:47:11,393 --> 00:47:13,663
into that loneliness trap as well.

861
00:47:13,663 --> 00:47:18,573
I'm guilty of just getting overwhelmed
with life and everything around it

862
00:47:18,573 --> 00:47:20,863
and neglecting the people around me.

863
00:47:21,323 --> 00:47:25,453
But especially in the past
couple of years, I've like more

864
00:47:25,453 --> 00:47:29,373
intentionally reached, reaching out
to people, developing friendships.

865
00:47:30,073 --> 00:47:34,533
And, making that extra effort with people
that, I think would make a difference

866
00:47:34,563 --> 00:47:36,723
to my life with my family's life.

867
00:47:38,273 --> 00:47:39,383
Nola Simon: Yeah, no, very nice.

868
00:47:39,423 --> 00:47:39,963
I agree.

869
00:47:40,533 --> 00:47:43,223
Yeah, I've always I was thinking
the other day I've always been a

870
00:47:43,243 --> 00:47:44,703
part of a community family, right?

871
00:47:44,713 --> 00:47:45,413
I grew up.

872
00:47:45,818 --> 00:47:48,648
My parents would get up at five
o'clock leave by six o'clock in the

873
00:47:48,648 --> 00:47:51,138
morning, and they wouldn't get home
until six, seven o'clock at night.

874
00:47:51,598 --> 00:47:55,348
And that's been my entire life
until I started working from home.

875
00:47:56,138 --> 00:48:02,258
And for people to then expect us to
give that up, where you feel that you

876
00:48:02,258 --> 00:48:06,478
can, if you need somebody to walk your
dog, you can just go next door, right?

877
00:48:07,088 --> 00:48:09,138
You've built those connections
with people, right?

878
00:48:09,138 --> 00:48:10,618
Because you have more time.

879
00:48:11,063 --> 00:48:13,403
To invest in the people around you, right?

880
00:48:13,613 --> 00:48:16,223
And to give that up to
go back to commuting.

881
00:48:16,223 --> 00:48:18,533
So you have maybe one
hour a day with my kids.

882
00:48:18,893 --> 00:48:20,783
That's a really big expectation.

883
00:48:20,963 --> 00:48:25,083
And I think that's honestly a big
part of why people are fighting it

884
00:48:25,083 --> 00:48:29,593
is because they've built community
closer to where they live rather than

885
00:48:29,853 --> 00:48:31,983
community where they work in the office.

886
00:48:32,483 --> 00:48:33,093
How do you let that go?

887
00:48:33,093 --> 00:48:33,953
And

888
00:48:34,453 --> 00:48:38,203
Rosie Sherry: some people, they look
at me and say, Oh, you're crazy.

889
00:48:38,733 --> 00:48:39,863
You've got what, five kids?

890
00:48:39,863 --> 00:48:45,033
You've got a business, a couple
of businesses, homeschool as well.

891
00:48:45,043 --> 00:48:46,603
It's Oh my God, that must be so much.

892
00:48:46,603 --> 00:48:50,263
But actually there's certain aspects,
for example, with homeschooling that

893
00:48:50,343 --> 00:48:51,923
actually makes life so much easier.

894
00:48:52,153 --> 00:48:57,483
Not doing the school run every day and
not dealing with, like, all the things

895
00:48:57,483 --> 00:49:01,303
that come with school, all the messages,
all the, you don't have to sit in an

896
00:49:01,303 --> 00:49:04,883
Nola Simon: auditorium and listen to
30 kids play recorders really badly.

897
00:49:04,883 --> 00:49:07,573
Rosie Sherry: Yeah.

898
00:49:08,083 --> 00:49:11,313
But instead the flip side of
that is we end up connecting with

899
00:49:11,343 --> 00:49:14,323
other home editors, and we end
up supporting each other, right?

900
00:49:14,333 --> 00:49:18,898
So we're like, we'll have we say
playdates, but it's also, playdates

901
00:49:18,898 --> 00:49:23,618
aren't playdates themselves, often
they're a way of supporting each other

902
00:49:23,778 --> 00:49:28,598
or, it's let's share car runs, or pick up
times sometimes we find people locally,

903
00:49:28,598 --> 00:49:34,028
and we try to, encourage each other
to, to help each other out, instead of

904
00:49:34,028 --> 00:49:37,118
it's good for the environment as well,
obviously, but it's like trying to be

905
00:49:37,118 --> 00:49:43,188
efficient with each, with our time, but
also appreciate that we need each other.

906
00:49:43,348 --> 00:49:47,078
It's really helpful to have other parents
who can step up and say, Oh, I'll pick up

907
00:49:47,128 --> 00:49:48,718
your kid for you if you're stuck, right?

908
00:49:49,018 --> 00:49:49,268
Yeah.

909
00:49:50,598 --> 00:49:54,748
And but yeah, just Not having
that makes a really lonely world.

910
00:49:54,918 --> 00:49:59,788
So it's like homeschooling is naturally
more community led and it's almost

911
00:49:59,788 --> 00:50:04,218
like it ends up becoming that, I
wouldn't quite say second family, but

912
00:50:04,218 --> 00:50:09,788
it becomes that supportive network
that That we need and we recently

913
00:50:09,788 --> 00:50:15,108
went on a camping trip with some
other home editors and it was amazing.

914
00:50:15,128 --> 00:50:18,108
It was just like, there's a way
to get to know some of the other

915
00:50:18,108 --> 00:50:21,378
parents, but then the kids just were
like, they were off playing all day.

916
00:50:21,378 --> 00:50:23,028
And

917
00:50:23,388 --> 00:50:25,458
Nola Simon: you can schedule that
when the weather's going to be good.

918
00:50:25,458 --> 00:50:28,008
You don't have to schedule
it around actual school time.

919
00:50:28,058 --> 00:50:28,398
So

920
00:50:30,258 --> 00:50:32,158
Rosie Sherry: yeah, literally
we scheduled it during the

921
00:50:32,158 --> 00:50:33,898
week when it's nice and quiet.

922
00:50:34,458 --> 00:50:38,598
Nola Simon: Yeah, you can take advantage
of all of the benefits of that seniors

923
00:50:38,608 --> 00:50:42,718
have and people who who aren't bound
by that school's school schedule.

924
00:50:44,158 --> 00:50:44,678
I like it.

925
00:50:45,208 --> 00:50:45,748
Very cool.

926
00:50:46,358 --> 00:50:46,728
All right.

927
00:50:46,728 --> 00:50:49,698
Was there anything else that you
thought we missed in this discussion

928
00:50:49,698 --> 00:50:50,558
that you want to highlight?

929
00:50:52,658 --> 00:50:53,098
Rosie Sherry: I don't think so.

930
00:50:54,523 --> 00:50:57,703
Nola Simon: We managed to hit the
high points of what we planned.

931
00:50:57,873 --> 00:50:58,653
Oh, that's perfect.

932
00:50:58,943 --> 00:51:02,223
I will make sure that all your
socials are available to people.

933
00:51:02,223 --> 00:51:04,283
Is there anything else
that you want me to add?

934
00:51:05,583 --> 00:51:05,783
Rosie Sherry: No.

935
00:51:06,183 --> 00:51:10,533
Just yeah, I guess websites to me are more
important than socials these days, okay.

936
00:51:12,778 --> 00:51:13,028
Nola Simon: Okay.

937
00:51:13,158 --> 00:51:15,058
Yeah, I will make sure that's in there.

938
00:51:15,658 --> 00:51:15,988
All right.

939
00:51:15,988 --> 00:51:17,038
Thank you so much, Rosie.

940
00:51:17,068 --> 00:51:18,468
I've learned so much from you.

941
00:51:18,878 --> 00:51:20,778
This is a way of me saying thank you.

942
00:51:20,778 --> 00:51:22,938
When you put out that post
going, I want to be a podcast.

943
00:51:22,938 --> 00:51:24,458
I'm like, Hey, you want to do mine?

944
00:51:24,488 --> 00:51:26,428
Because I had you on my list forever.

945
00:51:26,798 --> 00:51:30,298
And then you went back and you
were so busy and I didn't want

946
00:51:30,298 --> 00:51:31,458
to, I didn't want to bother you.

947
00:51:31,458 --> 00:51:34,348
But then I'm like, Oh, if she's
ready for it, then, make this happen.

948
00:51:35,628 --> 00:51:36,478
Thank you for doing it.

949
00:51:37,333 --> 00:51:38,803
All right, let me just hit stop.

950
00:51:40,533 --> 00:51:41,160
There we go.