Spirits Behind Bars: Paranormal Encounters at Bodmin Jail with Kirsten Honey

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When you look back at prison records and through the list of executions attributed to Bodman Jail, it's hard not to empathize with the souls imprisoned there for offenses as trivial as stealing a loaf of bread. And whilst murder may be deemed an acceptable crime to receive the death penalty, it's hard to justify such a sentence for forgery, sheep stealing or setting fire to a Cornstack. The last execution took place on July 20, 1909. William Hampton, aged 24, being found guilty and sentenced to death for the strangulation and murder of his girlfriend, who was aged just 16 at the time. William Hampton spent his 24th and last birthday at Bodman Jail.

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His final month saw him placed in the condemned cell. Having had his sentence conferred by a judge, he waited for three consecutive Sundays to pass so as to fully contemplate the severity of his crime and prepare to meet his maker. On the day of his scheduled execution, he was led to the spot above the hanging pit where his legs were bound and the noose placed around his neck. With such a powerful and dark history, it's no wonder that it is a location that proves popular for both paranormal enthusiasts and historians. It's a location that speaks on so many levels and certainly has stories to share around every corner.

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It draws you in like a magnet. Joining me today is Kirsten Honey, spiritual communicator and the paranormal manager at Bodman Jail. When not at the jail, she spends time working in her shop in Bodman, using healing techniques and uplifting people doing readings either by card or through general connection. She's going to take us on a journey exploring the haunting past of Bodman Jail and some of the many paranormal reports experienced at this erie but also profoundly beautiful building that is firmly placed at the center of Cornish history. So get comfortable and let's greet our guest.

00:03:39

Hi, Kirsten. Thank you so much for joining me today. Hello, how are you? I'm good, thank you. Do you want to just start by telling us a little bit about yourself and your background?

00:03:51

Yes. So I was born and brought up in Cornwall, so I am Cornish by birth, and I've dotted myself around the country as the years have gone by. I'm obviously paranormal manager at Bobman jail here in Cornwall, and I have done this now here for eight years. My work is very intense and very specialized. It's a very specialized field, and I have done what I do all my life.

00:04:20

So, yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about a little bit about that as well. I mean, I think you have an incredible location that you're a paranormal measure of. I mean, Bodman jail really does have that reputation, not only for its history, but obviously for the paranormal associated it. So you are incredibly lucky. You don't have to tell me.

00:04:41

Every day. I walk through the gates and I'm like, yeah, this is a job. I stand outside sometimes, and I look from the roadside and I look at the building, and I'm just like, wow, this is one of the biggest paranormal venues in the world. And I get to be here. I get to share this.

00:04:56

I get to understand this building at levels that most people just wouldn't even realize. How would you describe the kind of the atmosphere of the prison? Because I think for someone maybe who isn't familiar with it, what kind of feel does it have as you walk into it and just hunt around and explore it? I think the first thing that you need to take in is just the breathtaking visual of it. I mean, this building is so unique, and it's remained standing in most part.

00:05:27

It was just the aesthetics and a lot of the more detailed stuff, like the roof, which is always handy, and the wings that were so broken. But just to look at this building in its full capacity is just mind blowing. It's breathtaking. And then when you walk inside the gates, you literally are in a different world. You just lose your sense of being for a second.

00:05:53

Then as you walk in through the jail itself, I think you go through the attractions very submersive and very animated, and you get into the nitty gritty of the building. You get into the wings themselves. So half of the structure has become the hotel, which still looks like a prison. It might be a hotel, but it still visually looks like it was all those years ago, just with a few finer details. And then we have this incredible, incredible building that kind of draws you back 2300 years, and you're sitting literally within the environments that all our prisoners did.

00:06:34

And bear in mind, we had so much layering in history. Not only was it the very first victorian british built jail in this country, it was also the very first for Cornwall and actually, indeed ended up being the last prison ever to exist in Cornwall. We had three jails on the site, so we have originally our debtors prison, a civilian prison, and a naval prison. So you can just imagine as you go through the feelings that you get from all of these different people from, well, different backgrounds and societies as we look at it. I mean, it really does have this very rich, very deep history, doesn't it?

00:07:17

I mean, we're talking about a prison that dates back to the 17 hundreds. And like you mentioned, just the fact that it's been used for different purposes, used by the navy, the fact that it was a location that saw public hangings, I mean, just an incredible array of different things that have happened over the last few hundred years, really. Do you want to just share that history? Take us back to those first incarnations of the prison and how it's kind of evolved to where it is today. Yes.

00:07:47

So we have this very structured, designed building. We have a very deep structure that was placed within the walls of the jail. It was the very first one to have a prison reformat done by John Howard. So not only were prisoners coming in knowing that they were going to be placed in these cells, it was going to be a single cell structure. So one prisoner per cell.

00:08:12

They were the first ever to have heating. It must have just blown their minds. They had lighting by way of candlelight later to become gas lights. They had an education system, medication reforms. You reforming people to become better people so that when they left here and they go back into their own society, they have something to give back, and they've learned all these skills.

00:08:39

Religion was deeply embedded within this structure as well. And then you have the very military feel of the naval prison. And so that was a different structure, again, dealt with purely by the Navy. That lessened our responsibility as a civilian prison. But we also had men, women and children that came here.

00:08:59

So we had huge responsibilities for the children and ensuring that they were safe and educated and well rounded individuals when they left. We had our own medical facility, so we had our own hospital on site. Everything was in house. It was just phenomenal. And that truly is reflected when you're looking at the paranormal side of the business.

00:09:22

We get huge reflections of this straight away, actually. I mean, it makes sense, doesn't it? Because you've got just different types of people from every kind of walk of life, from wardens, from those that were incarcerated there, from military personnel. I mean, just that real breadth and broad kind of aspect of society really kind of being portrayed not only through its history, but the possible paranormal encounters. Yeah, and I think it's nice that you recognize the fact that it's not just about the prisoners, because part of my work I talk about, don't forget that this building has land that it was built on.

00:10:05

It also has staff that were here day in, day out. These were the functioning parts of the building that kept everything going then you have in very close proximity to the jail, just outside the gates. You've got the governor's house. I mean, huge responsibility, huge aura as he walks through the building. You've got the chaplain who lives right next door to the Governor himself, just down the road.

00:10:32

You've got the chief warders cottages where they lived within their families. You had the original gatekeepers houses where they lived and worked within their environment. You just have this whole array. You have to remember, you've got people that were coming in and maintaining the building. You have a blacksmith who lives just down the road, the farrier he would come up and maintain the horses that were here on site and also traveling.

00:11:01

So when you're talking about hangings, you've got the executioners who would travel to this site. So when you walk through, it's not just as easy as all. There are people here who are imprisoned or incarcerated, so we just pick up on them. We pick up on so many things, including some animals as well. Now, I know you have a fondness for dogs and spiritually we pick up on a couple of dogs here as.

00:11:25

Well, which doesn't surprise me because obviously, given what we've just been talking about with this fact that this was a location announced, so many different types of people, not just prisoners, but families, people who live there. Of course, they may have animals, but then you've also got the very nature of the prison itself. This was a jail, so you might have other animals, kind of strays wandering around just by nature of the conditions, picking up scraps, feasting on rats.

00:11:58

All. Of those types of things. Rats, cats, you'd expect to have them, and dogs possibly because of those that live there. So it makes complete sense. We pick up on one particular cat and actually, very recently we've had someone who said, did they have cats here?

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Because we can feel this cat smooching around our legs and these people have looked and thought, my gosh, is there a cat just got in here? We're talking in the middle of the night where we're working internally in the building. And then we have a spaniel like dog that runs around this little crazy thing and a small dog like that. And then we have a dog, which I believe was a vimarana, or a dog very similar to that breed that actually was the chief order's own animal that he would bring in sometimes. So when people don't know this information, then they pick up on this little nugget of history.

00:12:51

It always makes me smile because I think you know what, you're picking up on the true story of what it was like to be here in Bogman jail. Just a tiny aspect of it, which. Is fantastic, isn't it, really? I mean, again, I think this is why you have such a privileged job, because you get all of this kind of unfold, really and that's so exciting. It really is.

00:13:13

And I know people will say to me sometimes, oh, but you believe in this. So, yeah, you would definitely experience this stuff. And people will say, oh, I don't know if you've ever heard before. And I stop them and I say, you know what? It doesn't matter if I've heard it a hundred times before.

00:13:31

What really matters to me is that you're experiencing this building yourself and you're feeling the things that I felt here for years. I'm not going mad after all it impacts because I know I'm not mad. But my stories aren't the important ones, really. The important stories are first and foremost, those of the people who were here and then of people coming in, because everybody's experience is different. And when you can collate information by hundreds of different people experiencing things that aren't publicly known, that it's not the usual hangings and stuff like that, this is where the intensity of the building really holds its own.

00:14:15

And the paranormal phenomena here is just exceptional. Absolutely. And again, that exciting part of being able to lay and to make those connections and just history coming to life, really. And prove those experiences. Yeah, and just proving their own experiences.

00:14:36

They're not crazy. They're real. These are real experiences. So in terms of what life was like for inmates, were conditions typically like for those that were incarcerated at Bodman? I think we need to look back a little further to appreciate what this building is.

00:14:56

Because just prior to the jail opening, I'll give you an example of a debtors prison. So we had a debtors prison that was moved from a different location in town to Bobmanjao. They kind of reimagined it into this building on this side. And the debtors prison prior to this one opening was just a room with barred window holes, essentially no glass, a gateway, and prisoners were just held in them. They were just placed in one room.

00:15:27

They were left to eat, sleep, drink, go to the toilet, be sick, and sometimes die on the same floor. So when you're looking at a community of people living within the same environment, albeit short term, no more than a couple of weeks, you've got very, very poor conditions. These are the ones that you see on the TV that we kind of associate with Victorian life, where we have straw on the floor and people are coughing and they've got disease. And I think people would be very lucky to come out of those situations without sickness. When we moved to Bobman Jail, we have a building that not only is brand new, but the system that was put in place here was new.

00:16:04

So a single cell structure literally wiped out half of your risk of getting disease and illness. So essentially, conditions here were much, much better. Heating was 14 to 15 degrees in the winter, so we were keeping people alive, but not overheating them. Those are conditions that were never, ever put in anywhere else. We really did found the prison system, to be honest, in this country.

00:16:31

And then you look at the flip side to all of this glamour almost, that we're faced with in is an amazing new building, amazing clean prison system. We had a hammock to sleep on, we didn't have to sleep on the floor later that went to beds and mattresses, and then we have hard labor. And the conditions inside, I think, were mental, more than physical for our prisoners. Mentally, they were breaking down people in society in order to rebuild them. So just the pure fact that spending 23 hours a day in your cell, locked away in pure isolation, with rules put in place, like you are not allowed to speak unless you are spoken to, you're not allowed to make eye contact unless you are given permission.

00:17:20

Having to live in those conditions for several months at a time, even years, must have been some of the worst conditions people could have faced. So, yes, there was still disease. Yes, they did have ensuite, almost. They had a bucket in their cell, but that's where you went to the toilet. So we have these conditions that were still quite poor and chilly and just really harrowing.

00:17:45

And it was proven people were scared to come to Bob Minjell. The deterrent factor of this building is just incredible. And when I'm talking to people, I try to get them to place themselves in a situation just like those people even know that they can have free choice to leave at any time. Yeah, and I think this is where we can see the real contrast between what it was like today in modern prison to those of the past, because you've got just a completely different ethic, really. I think then it was very much a deterrent back then.

00:18:20

It was almost a social warning, wasn't it? And hence why somewhere like Bodhman had a reputation that it did, that people would fear it. And the aim there being that you're making a spectacle of prisoners and making things like public hangings and all of these other things something as a way to signpost people to you have to live a better life. You have oral life. You don't want to end up here in these kinds of conditions, having this kind of existence for however long that prison stay may be, or take it to the final conclusion.

00:18:55

You don't want to be someone that's on the scaffold. It was very much that kind of. Warning, fear factor of it all, 100%. I mean, we know there are people who well, one particular gentleman, he didn't even make it into a cell. He committed suicide outside the gates.

00:19:11

And it was notable that he was the most jovial prisoner being brought to the jail. And he got outside and it was planned for him. He planned every single detail and he cut his own throat before being entered into the building, and he consequently died as a result of his injuries. But he was scared. He didn't want to come to the jail, he didn't want to be in this position, in this building, where just isn't torture, absolute torture.

00:19:42

And there is that social moral standing where you're ridiculed, you're pushed out in society, you're made an example of. And sometimes, you know what, these people were never guilty. Absolutely. And also, I think we have to recognize that many of the crimes that someone could imprison for back then, I mean, they're totally different now. They would just slap on the wrist.

00:20:07

They wouldn't be something that would necessarily see facing jail time, let alone the very extreme forms of punishment. Yeah, I mean, take for instance, we have people here who were hanged for stealing a sheep, and you think, at what point does it give? How do you justify hanging someone for stealing a sheep? Today? You can't do that.

00:20:33

But the society they lived in then was super different. So you have a society where food was being grown and sold and made as it is today, but very, very limited amounts, and it was expensive. So if you were to kill people's, animals, anything that affects the food chain, anything at all, you set fire to corn, that could be a farmer's business done for the rest of the year. How does he then make money? How does he then feed his family?

00:21:00

I mean, I know farmers recently have faced very similar things, but in those days, you were hanged for it because you were given the worst punishment possible for the worst outcome that may happen to the person who is suffering. So their family members might die from starvation or disease because they don't have the money or the food to keep these families going. So, yeah, it was definitely harsh times. Real, real harsh times. Children being placed in here, stealing a blanket, they're freezing to death, so they're going to take an opportunity, right, or they're starving to death, so they steal an apple and they get hard labor for three months.

00:21:44

And I just think and they're tried as adults, they're not even tried as children. So the whole social understanding of how we deal with crime and punishment, oh, we were just going full force. It just got to a point where it's too much. So let's just give them the full impact, the full capacity of punishment, as you say, use it as deterrent, use it as fear to control and organize society again. Do you have an idea of the numbers that have been through?

00:22:15

We have over 33,000 prisoners. An immense number, isn't it? A huge populace of people. Incredible. Absolutely incredible.

00:22:27

Some people be like, well, that's not that much over the years that it was open, but we were short term, but also we were trying not to get people in prison. We were trying to keep people out of prison, but 33,000 some people say to me, kirsten, do you know who this prisoner is? And I said, Well, I have over 33,000 to choose from. Sometimes it's impossible to know who you're talking to. It's a lot of it's a lot of data, which only is as good.

00:22:55

As the records that were kept. The people who are keeping them, prolific criminals. If they weren't people who were of any substance, would we keep them? No, we don't keep those records. It's very, very difficult.

00:23:06

Yes, we have incredible record office that has oh, my goodness, so, so much information about prisoners. And I did my own research and went into the population and census between certain dates, and I only did, I think, six months, and I had four files just off those six months from prisoners whose families lived in these areas. You can imagine, they had just immense amount of records that had to be kept on these prisoners themselves. Again, which is just staggering. And that kind of information sitting there still may be not known, because it's a lot of data to kind of work through, if you're able to have that.

00:23:54

But that's so many people. I mean, it's so much history. Again, it's just so immense. It's staggering, really, to try and think about that. 33,000 people in their stories, how they ended up there, what happened to them, what happened to them once they got out.

00:24:11

I mean, it's just huge. Just kind of into your head and think about that.

00:24:18

And also, are the records right, or are they just the written word of somebody else's opinion on that person? That's the other thing. Absolutely. One of the most incredible things about my job is that, yes, I work in just the most incredible building. I'm so happy and blessed that I can do that.

00:24:45

But I then get to meet some incredible people that come through the doors of the whole site, and some of these people are the relatives, living relatives, direct descendants of the people who are here. And one of the most fascinating things, if I can tell you, if you don't mind, is this story of a gentleman who came in and he had a tour, a paranormal tour with me, and it was just a couple of hours, and he said, at the end of the tour, I noticed you kept staring at me. He said, Is there a reason for that? And I had tried not to stare at this man. And I said, oh, my goodness, I am so sorry.

00:25:30

I said, you must think I'm really unprofessional. I said, Let me just tell you why, because you just remind me so much of somebody that I have met. And he said, oh, would it help me to tell you my surname? And there are not many times when I'm stumped for words or something will hit me with so much emotion that I need to take a breath. And he gave me his last name and I stopped functioning because this gentleman was a living, direct descendant of one of our prisoners who was hanged.

00:26:13

And he looked identical to the spiritual form of the gentleman who had been hanged at Bob Mineral. And I just couldn't believe my eyes. I just couldn't believe it that goosebumps on the back of your neck moment, isn't it? Well, I can give you even more. I can give you even more because then I said to him and his wife, I said, well, can I give you my version of how I feel this particular person was?

00:26:47

And I described him in his personality and I said and then his brother, who was also held here at Bob Mingale, who was also hanged at Bob Minjao, I described him and his wife grabbed hold of him and said, oh, my goodness, she has just literally told me about you and your brother. And it was absolutely identical in physical attributes and emotional side personalities of these two people that were definitely reflected in today's brothers. I just couldn't believe I mean, that's just staggering, really, isn't it? It's just mind blowing. And again, I was just going to say, it's just that kind of full circle, isn't it?

00:27:38

Those connections with the past and the present. And when you have moments like that. It'S just and it's clarification that the people that I have picked up on that information can only be known by family members. And if that's given to me correctly, and I've passed that on and it's been clarified by the people who live today, who would know and who have those same traits and same personalities, that means everything I was given about those people by the jail spiritually by those people, that means that was correct. How can I argue with that?

00:28:20

That stuff I can't make up. Like I said, it's just such a privileged, unique position to be able to have those moments. It's fascinating. And I have them a lot. It's just incredible.

00:28:32

And again, it's one of those that I think, again, possibly recognizing that it's not just prisoners that you might have those connections with, but it's people who have maybe worked there in the past, descendants of people who've worked there because this was such a compound like building with medical facilities, with wardens, with gatekeepers, with all manner of different types of staff, people who had come in, general. Population staff, general population staff, guys that were delivering the Bibles, people that were delivering to the jail with things that they needed, the executioners and their families. And the guy who used to work with prisoners in the gardens, who cleaned all of these little details. I know a lot would be down to prisoners, but who does all this stuff? Who's responsible?

00:29:25

And oh, my goodness, I was given that information correctly because you as a relative who would know these things had just come in here and said to me, how would you even know that? And I would, because the jail told me. And the jail really does speak. And I think that's what people who go realize. The jail speaks.

00:29:46

I mean, it's just got such that atmosphere, the history, the paranormal. I mean, it's just there in spades, really. I mean, it literally screams all of those things. It wants to share what it wants to share. And it does.

00:29:58

I mean, people really do come away experiencing incredible different types of phenomena activity, but also a real understanding and a sense of the history, its moment in history.

00:30:12

And it's still reliving history every single day, and it's still sharing history every day. And this building will continue to do that long after we have gone. Even just the structure itself will continue to give people a tiny bit of information about the past. So we've kind of touched upon prisoners and execution. How many prisoners were executed on site?

00:30:37

55. 55 that were hanged. We never hanged children, which is a blessing for me, because I don't have to talk about that then in detail. But we hang well, I say we didn't hang children. And I raise this all the time because it's a very great area and it still is today in society, where our youngest ever prisoner was part of a double execution.

00:30:59

We have four double executions here. It's where two people are hanged at the same time publicly. And we have a double execution of two gentlemen, one's much older in his thirty s. Forty s. The other one is 17 years old, and he was our youngest ever prisoner to be hanged.

00:31:16

Now, this was a case of murder, and we always think, was the younger one guilty or was the older one covering up for the younger one? They both got hanged. We'll never actually quite know that bit of information, but we did have just young people, and we have touched on a lot of the history, and I think hangings is a very prolific part of that. And it can't be forgotten because of these 55 people, how many were truly guilty? How many of them truly, truly deserved the sentence of hanging that they were delivered to them?

00:31:54

Because again, just like we've been talking about how crime and punishment was so different, so was that judicial system, the way that a trial was carried out, how fair it was, whether they had access to being able to put up any kind of defense, it was so vastly different. So, like you said, that kind of journey from being put in front of a judge through to execution, you have to kind of understand the nuances along the way before they ended up where they did. I'll give you a story which I kind of try and put this point across to people which I share. And it's like somebody has had a murder or been. Murdered.

00:32:34

Sorry. So somebody's been murdered and someone else is walking down the street, completely unknown to them, that there's been a murder that's taken place and they've been out for a quick drink in the pub. It's their birthday, they're walking back home down the lane and suddenly they are accompanied by the police, who are arresting them to say, you've committed murder and this person is completely unknown. They're just like, I don't understand that. I wasn't there, I've just been to the pub, I'm just walking home.

00:33:11

Now, in this case, I'm saying, but what about the people who saw this gentleman walk down the street? What about their witness statements? And if you're arrested for something like murder, you could be arrested, you could be taken to court. You do not have the right to defend yourself in these days. You're allowed to say your name, you're allowed to confirm that detail.

00:33:35

Then you have people arguing in court around you as to the evidence that is given. And you only have to have two people, really, one person to say that they saw you and the other person to collaborate that story. Other witnesses can then come in and say, well, actually, if they've said that, then I know this person, they're an upstanding person in the community, so why would they lie? So of course they're going to be telling you the truth. So that's three people now who are collaborating that you're guilty, even though that's not the issue.

00:34:08

The issue is who's telling the truth here? So you then have these people who are confirming that what these other people are saying is true, these witnesses, or supposed witnesses. So even by a state of circumstances, you can find yourself in a situation where you're found guilty and that's all it takes. And you have no right to appeal, not until later on in history. So that doesn't come until the late 18, early 19 hundreds, the right of appeal.

00:34:37

I'm going to go so far as saying 19 hundreds, because we didn't even look at criminology until the late 18 hundreds. So there are so many aspects to this which is critical to the stories that are being told about the prisoners, the truth about them. It's that kind of sense, isn't it, of just how difficult life could be and if you found yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time, where you may end up, and how quick and swift that process was from that moment being in the dock to then execution. I mean, we didn't have CCTV, we didn't have DNA. DNA is only a new thing.

00:35:18

But we didn't have all of these things that could could give us a fighting chance. If we couldn't even stand in a courtroom and say, hey, I wasn't even in the county, I was somewhere else. How could that have been me? I'm not physically capable of doing this. I don't even understand what all this means.

00:35:39

And there's the other aspect to this. People today are treated differently and assessed to see if they're mentally competent to stand trial. None of these things were into play when we're looking at the people who traveled here, from the courts to Bobmanjao, especially the ones sentenced to hang. And again, that's such an important note to realize that someone's mental capacity was never considered. There was all manner of learned people who had opinions on it.

00:36:12

It was so commonplace back then because so many were emerging. It is. It's heartbreaking. And it's I mean, look how recent. Not forgetting that, look how recently and literally how recently we have accepted, and this is a very sensitive subject, so I'm going to be very careful about my wording.

00:36:34

But we had people here who killed children and babies, and it's only very recently that we've looked at the mental capacity of a woman due to postpartum depression or postpartum mental health illnesses, psychosis, all of those things. Postnatal depression. So when you're looking at cases, I sometimes look at them and think, oh, my gosh, they went from being an upstanding member of community as best as they could, even if they were poor. And this is the other thing. Were you rich enough to be not guilty?

00:37:19

But you're also looking at this woman who, up until that moment, had never done anything wrong in her life. And suddenly, either because of the pressures of society, the pressures of whether or not you were deemed fit enough to be in society, especially if you were an unwed mother, but, oh, my word, were you mentally capable of taking care of that child once you'd had them? Absolutely. And again, you can see that shift in how things really have moved to a large extent from 100 years ago, 50 years now.

00:38:04

And then you look at cases where women have taken the life of a child. Of course, one particular lady who was here, and I'm actually sitting in the jail, I'm not sitting too far from her condemned cell, may I say. And I look at this story and think there was pressure upon her. There was pressure placed upon this lady to take the life of one of her children just so that she could be welcomed into society as somebody, not just an unwed mother with two children, who's accountable for that pressure? Oh, gosh, absolutely.

00:38:46

And again, that's where you can really see how life was so very different and how sometimes you were just a product of the circumstances of the time. Absolutely heartbreaking in terms of that difference in wealth, in status, and the status. Between men and women. So what would be domestic violence for? Sorry, another very sensitive subject, but this building is full of these kinds of stories.

00:39:15

So when you're looking at domestic violence in society today, I look back at some of these stories and I'm like, oh, my gosh, but they were a beaten woman, and you know what they would say, well, why are you moaning? Just do what your husband told you to do and then you wouldn't have any issues. Behave yourself. And I'm like, oh my goodness, that's crazy. And then they've snapped, which, of course is not right, and they've killed their husband, for instance.

00:39:47

And that truly is not right. That's not correct even today. But you're then looking at the circumstances that led up to that that weren't recognized. And what about the men? Maybe they did things to get out of situations that were similar as well.

00:40:01

We just don't know when it did. Come to that conclusion. These were public affairs. People often saw them and could attract very crowd of people very interest, particularly if that person or individual or a couple of individuals were of real note. If this was something sensational within the community, you could see huge crowds of 20,000 plus people coming to attend to what?

00:40:28

Yeah, I mean, I look at the headlines today and I reinvent headlines for prisoners who would have been hanged and the sensationalism that they would put in the press today, we would be like, oh my goodness. And then I look at the headlines back then, and I'm like, whoa, no wonder it was a massive deal to come and watch this hanging. Oh, my goodness me. And when that story is carried and carried and changed and carried, you've got people making up little rhymes, and they would dance through the streets singing about the prisoners. You wouldn't do that today, but you would make up rhymes about the prisoners and tell stories, stories to the children to stop them from committing crime.

00:41:16

And oh my word, it's mind boggling. But again, also why you then have this whole other industry that, again, people who attend Bodman Jail can see. But this kind of kind of trade afterwards and this kind of movement afterwards of being able to carry that feeling forward, of let's look at these people as something, as a warning, as a moral lesson with things like public dissections, death masks. And Bodwin Jail has quite a collection, shall we say. Yeah.

00:41:51

And they were very much there to remind you to publicly remind people of this is what happens to you don't have a consecrated burial. You don't get to have people coming in around a grave and mourning you. This is where you could end up if you end up doing something that puts you in a similar position, you. Are stripped of every aspect of your being. Mentally, physically, spiritually, haunting, because you see those final few seconds of someone's life before it's gone.

00:42:30

Even to it. Absolutely. But to be able to see that up close, I think you really kind of are able to then piece together the name, with where they were, with what happened to them. It kind of all ties those threads together. And like you said, having that question, they always guilty were there mitigating circumstances that today would mean that person would have been able to live for another 30, 40 years, possibly have children, have other things happen to them that sadly, back then, or of a very different inclusion.

00:43:05

Yeah. You need to look at things like, for this building, we would absolutely pinpointing those points that you've just made, like, to a fine detail. And we had just gone from putting people out on a post. So in Bob men, we have five. It's called Five Turnings or Five five Turnings.

00:43:32

And it's a place where we had a public hanging post. So that no matter where you came from, Cornwall, because Bobman was the county town, so it was the go through town. It was where we traded and stuff. And you go through Bobman and you come out of Bobman. No matter where you are in Cornwall, if you're traveling through and guess what, if we've just hanged somebody, you're going to see them still hanging.

00:43:57

It is just such a dramatic thing to have to live with and knowing maybe mums that were walking down the streets in Bob Men were actually we don't walk this way today with our children because of somebody still hanging on a post. It must have put so much fear into the hearts of people in this town as well, and let alone then become the biggest focal point in the whole of the county. Notorious for execution. Yeah, it's chilling. It really is one of the most.

00:44:34

Feared buildings in this country. You can really understand why. Those dark sanding yeah. Those dark windows, the cold wind blowing through the building. You've got the isolation, you've got the mental capacity just being broken down constantly.

00:44:56

You've got hard labor which would break any individual coming in here. You've got this religious aspect, you've got everybody looking the same. You can't talk, you can't look, you can't do anything. Everything is a controlled environment. You only see that today in maximum security institutions or very high risk prisoners are monitored and walked through prisons in such fine detail.

00:45:26

Everything is managed. Of course, we don't lose the capacity to be able to speak now or look at people, but oh, my goodness, what a crazy place.

00:45:46

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00:46:35

It's all truly very much appreciated. And now let's head back to the podcast.

00:46:51

It's just something that I think for the history alone, people really should have an awareness and an interest in. But then couple that with tying it into the paranormal and it's haunting to have the kinds of experiences that the jail does and the possible associations then to its past. Again, we've kind of touched on it, on it briefly, but it is so chilling. It really is something that I think is very unique and something that people who are interested in the paranormal would, I'm sure, love to experience because the jail does have that reputation of being one of the most certainly, it certainly. Does one of the most haunted places in the world.

00:47:35

And try working that. So obviously your kind of job is the paranormal manager. Yeah. What would you say your job really encompasses for someone? What is it that you do?

00:47:48

What's your kind of day to day experiences when you're taking groups around and so on? For me, my job is about helping people to explore the possibilities of paranormal phenomena. It's about connecting them to an environment that they wouldn't be normally used to. It's about helping them to understand the different levels and ways and means of communication. And it's also about people's personal experiences.

00:48:16

So not just for themselves, but maybe they have something that they want to achieve as well, like connecting to their family member or relative. But actually, you know what? People have life changing experiences here. I say it doesn't matter your belief system, because no matter what you believe, if it's real, you can get to experience it here. And we cover the whole phenomena, the whole range of paranormal phenomena in one building.

00:48:48

That is pretty incredible. Yeah, to experience things like sounds, to experience shadows, to experience full apparitions things moving. I mean, just an incredible array of different type of phenomena in different hotspots, in different locations that are like little sparks of light. We have bolts of light sometimes. We have your typical, what you would call orbs and manifestations of light.

00:49:17

They can chop and change shape and all sorts. We have partial manifestations, full manifestations in all kinds of ways. We have poltergeist, we have non human entities, the darker side of paranormal phenomena. We have probably the highest rate of possession in any haunted building in the whole of England. Possession is a very strong word and it's a very scary word.

00:49:40

So can we just call it energy submergence because it kind of lessens the blow a little bit there? We have people talking to you, sounds, smells, touching, feeling, poking, prodding. People will hold your hand. Adults and children, you have the pressures and the emotional challenges in this building. You have the mental challenges, physical, you have spiritual challenges.

00:50:08

It just covers absolutely everything. And if you think that you just have to be focused and light out, that's not the case. I have so many records of people coming through the day that will then share their stories with me. And I actually keep a book on site, one in the attraction, one in the shop, and one in the hotel, because all of these things can happen day and night, night and day. Lights on.

00:50:31

Lights off. The only reason I have lights off is to get people to actually focus and understand the building at very high levels, which is why people have such intense experiences. But, oh, my goodness, this place is just a phenomena in its own right. I mean, I think you said something that I think is very true of most buildings. You have to kind of look at how it's used and understand how it worked when it was kind of awake, when it was busy, when it was likely to kind of have that kind of flurry of energy.

00:51:07

And that burst of energy. And a prison didn't kind of begin at dawn and finish at a certain time. You had a very long day. And again, with so many people working there, not only the prisoners, it was such a bustling environment. So it completely makes sense that activity isn't isolated in the middle of the night when it's dark.

00:51:31

That's not when prisoners would have been maybe carrying out those hours of hard labor or isolation in the cells. So it makes sense that things happen in those times that would have been very much relevant for the people who lived there, who experienced all of these that are now being picked up. And people will say to me all the time, oh, I went through during the day, and I didn't really experience anything. So we thought we'd come at night. And they do experience stuff, and they're like, well, why was that?

00:51:57

And I'm like, but at nighttime, you don't have the distractions. You don't have hundreds of people roaming around. You don't have all the noises all the day to day life outside that's going on in the jail. You're there focusing and taking more interest. And it's why it's so important when I take people round on my tours that they get that blend of history and paranormal, because if you don't understand the physical building you're standing in, you've got no clue what's going on.

00:52:23

I used to get so many people that would dismiss experiences because it didn't fit what they were looking at right there and then. And people say to me, well, this bit is new, so how are we still getting experiences? Because this place was rebuilt in the exact specifications of the building that was once here. We're looking at shadows, echoes, memories of the past. We're not looking at physical people anymore.

00:52:46

So all of these things are very, very possible in any building, whether it's brand new or whether it's 300 years old. It's about the environment that you're in. And oh my gosh, on top of that, you have a building that's made out of 20,000 tons of rock and granite. What a conductor. We're in a valley.

00:53:05

We've got water woodland farmer with all this natural energy. We've built on top of the oldest lay line in the whole of England, which is St. Michael's Mount Ley line.

00:53:19

Energy upon energy upon energy, really, isn't it? Yeah. And then you get you guys coming in focusing, and I don't know if you snuck on one of my nights, but you haven't said that to me. And then you get me, who can really lift that and put that in perspective. Oh, my gosh.

00:53:36

The success rate of people having paranormal experiences here, even the first or even multiple, I have reoffenders. I have people who come back reoffending on my nights all the time. They come back out time and time and time and time again because every experience is different for them. And even if they know in certain areas that some things particularly happen or they've had those experiences there, they go on to have new experiences. And that's what's so incredible about the paranormal side, is that never ever do you get the same thing twice in the same area.

00:54:11

Do you say there are some areas that are more kind of paranormal hotspots than I think you can say that there are things that happen throughout, but would you say that there are somewhere that there's a real concentration? 100%. And also the emotional side of this building will have an influx on different times of the year where things will happen as well? But yeah, absolutely. We have a room that's our most paranormal room because of the amount of different phenomena that happens within that space.

00:54:43

So you can cover the whole aspect, literally the whole level from bottom to top of paranormal phenomena in that room. Then you have other areas, like little corridors, places that people forget because they just walk through them. Those sometimes are the most active areas ever, constantly in the whole building. And why? Because during the day, our people who worked here, our warders, they were so busy, they were functioning.

00:55:10

There was a lot going on in those particular spaces. So is it a wonder we'll get more poltergeist and things like that in those areas? Is it any wonder that we get more people touched or feel like they're being touched? It could just be a brush past. It's not necessarily someone reaching their hand up with a cold, skeletal hand to touch you.

00:55:28

But yeah, absolutely. We have spots that are definitely very active. But it kind of, again, makes sense, doesn't it? That kind of residual energy of someone doing their rounds. And if you're in that area having that experience of feeling some energy.

00:55:46

Which is going to sound really strange, but I have people spiritually who will walk around with me and I mean, like staff that will make sure I can feel them. I can sometimes see them. That will make sure that I'm doing my job correctly. Make sure that I've locked the doors will almost say, hey, you're late. Can you hurry up, please?

00:56:12

Everything has to be in its order. I have what I call a watcher, and this watcher actually monitors me at the jail. And he's been photographed. You could have absolutely blown me over. I mean, I just couldn't believe when I saw this photograph of a guy that I've described over and over again, and there he is standing right over me, watching what I'm doing, and he will hurry me along.

00:56:37

Or sometimes I'll say to people, we really should be moving from this area. And then someone say, oh, my gosh, I've just seen this guy. He's just standing there. I can't believe I've actually seen somebody. And they'll describe him, and I'm like, oh, my Lord, that's my watcher.

00:56:52

This is why I just said I need to be moving on because I'm actually late. I shouldn't be in this area with you still. It's just incredible that these people are still here doing what they did all those years ago. They have just adapted to what we did. Absolutely.

00:57:07

And I think, again, it's that different types of experiences, you're going to feel different things based on the spiritual energy that you're kind of around at that particular moment in that space, because you're going to have something different based on who you're interacting with and possibly different experiences based on who you're interacting with. Again, it's those layers, isn't it? Because of how and who were working there, going through the doors in that space. It's kind of being able to unpick and tease some of those things apart, I think. Yeah.

00:57:41

And of course, we do get our regulars, so we do have people who will quite often be in the same areas, and they're not there every single day or every single time, but they're the common denominators in the building. So somebody will say, oh, my gosh. I've just had this happen. And I'm like, oh, hold up. I think I know who this might be.

00:58:00

And then they will tell me, and of course I agree. And then I'm like, but how do you know if I'm telling you the truth? This is where all our records, all our documentation, all of the endless hours of work creating all this information about different people's experiences come into play. It's just an amazing building, and I'm still learning every single day. And if you think I walk in here and it's a breeze, and they just go, oh, hi, Kirsten, you're back.

00:58:27

Oh, it's not like that for me either. Sometimes they give me a run for my money, too. Absolutely.

00:58:36

I just think the sheer number of experiences that happen there and the associations with specific individuals, people of note, prisoners of interest, but then also people who worked there whose names you can have that piece of record that kind of backs things up. I mean, it's such a body of evidence and a body of work. I think that makes it quite unique. And because of that, the jail really does have such a long list of names that you associate with activity, with their individual history and their story really. I mean you don't get that in very many places, but here you really do have I mean we could be here for quite some time if we single individual spirit that possibly is there.

00:59:25

And there's the explanation of this type of activity. I mean it's lengthy, it's so bad. And I also get connections to their family members, so it might not even be them directly. It's family members that have since passed away that are connected to me because their history is in this building at once as a prisoner. So it's very complex.

00:59:46

The complexities of this building is a science almost in itself. Absolutely. So who would you kind of say are some of the again, for anybody who maybe is less familiar, who would you say are some of the more common spirits that come through those individuals of notes, be it if they're wardens or prisoners, someone who's been executed, who do you say are the ones that may be? So he's going by executions, which is really easy. So we have Giovanni Valeri.

01:00:16

We do connect to him quite a lot. He was an Italian sailor who committed the act of murder, single stab wound. He was hanged here in 19 one. Then we have a lady who I don't think I'm sure of her name, and I know that sounds really strange, but you have to be very careful to pinpoint names to spirits because, as I said, I do get relatives of people who come here. But there's definitely a lady who will roam around and we connect to her in two places, which is really significant to her because both of those areas I actually think she would definitely have been in.

01:00:56

We have the chief order who roams the jail, one of the chief orders. He definitely is seen on top of staircases, walking through the building, interacting with people. We have the old witchwoman, or the old hag as she's known as well, she frequents the building into specific areas as well. We have a guy I nicknamed the shuffley guy because you always pick him up by sound and he shuffles around. He's now becoming more and more visual as time goes on.

01:01:30

He's very prolific. We have a little boy and a little girl who float around the building, sorry, it's a really bad terminology, but who roam around the building. And we connect with very high levels. Oh my gosh. Actually it's endless.

01:01:50

We have the spirits that will only look in your face directly. We have others who I believe who are warders. We have a little old man who pushes a trolley around. We have a warder that strolls into one of the wings on a frequent basis. We have a woman and a man who are seen in the courtyard restaurant.

01:02:08

We've got poltergeists in the kitchens. We've got specific rooms that are becoming more and more interesting within the hotel environment. We have a guy at the top, at the start of the attraction who runs through the glass or the walls, as people will say it now, but he used to be picked up before the building was complete again. So we just have.

01:02:34

Like I said, it's one of those places that you could spend months just going through every single individual possible person that is linked, going through them for eight years, and. I still can't tell you them all. And we should kind of also remember that, because this is a location that has lots of things like artifacts, very much that were part of the working prison from things like keys, et cetera. You have all of these things as well there as part of the experience. As part of including the only fully functioning, fully working civilian drop pit there is in the country, that's an actively working execution site with the original lever.

01:03:19

So when you have things like that on site, of course, we don't use them. But these are very harsh memories. These are very real memories. These are objects which will trigger things to happen as well at particular times of the year. My goodness.

01:03:42

Even just down to the tiniest little things, like pieces of metal, which is still steel, which is still in the walls, slate shelving. How many people how many prisoners touched that? How many people prayed against them? How many people went to sleep on the hammock hook rings, how many people walked on the slate flooring? It's just mind boggling.

01:04:06

It's just that kind of collective stored energy, isn't it? And like you said, it's that, again, having that figure. 33,000 people who have been in that space, possibly, who have they touched that piece of metal, how many people who've worked in the prison have held those keys? It's all of those things. And like you said, it can trigger experiences.

01:04:29

It can trigger particular types of residual energy, residual hauntings or phenomena. I mean, it's just this real kind of layered space of different types of energy for different reasons, which, again, makes it a unique place, I think. Yeah. And you have to also remember language. So we were from years gone by, so we have different dialects, different ways of speaking.

01:04:57

Of course, we had English, we had French and German and Italian speaking in here. We also had Cornish speaking prisoners. So there's a whole heap of things that can trigger and can relate back to those times. And understanding the whole I used the word earlier, the complexity of this building, tapping into all of those resources that we. Have here.

01:05:24

There's not another building like this in the world that can give you not just the historical content but the paranormal side of it is just amazing. It's just a phenomenal building. Absolutely. And you mentioned at the start that you obviously have this naval section. Our experience there different do you have different types of things coming through?

01:05:46

Because again, just the fact that that's been used in a different way, you would expect different types of paranormal activity possibly because of its own unique kind of history to that. But do you experience any of that within the jail? Yes, and there's a few reasons why. Firstly, it used to be part of the main part of proportion of that wing was the female wing for women and children. So you have the layered aspect straight away.

01:06:13

You then have the naval aspect and the little extension that was placed on your right outside the door. You have an execution site for public hangings just the other end of that wing. You then have the internal second place for hangings on a short drop rope as well. You then have areas in that building that contain artifacts. You then have areas which were male dominated, specialized areas only.

01:06:44

So we do get this kind of overlap of well, women were here, so why aren't women welcome in these areas? You have to look at the building and understand the building that you're standing in to know that women definitely would not have been accepted into these areas at very specific time periods. So we do have some grumpy areas for females. We also have areas where men don't feel comfortable and I think at specific times maybe that's because they're translating from the female wing that was there. We hear children crying sometimes and then other times it's silence and very organized and uniformed and practical which would again float back to the naval aspect of it.

01:07:28

And also when I was talking about communication, don't forget that Navy press now use whistles to communicate with. So when that was tried, they were getting actual responses back in real time in relation to the orders they had given by Navy personnel that came in here and blew those whistles.

01:07:51

I don't even know, I can't even put into words how as a functioning building, as a paranormal building, how quite incredible. I think you touched on something very important when you were just kind of sharing that kind of specific history of this one spot, which is the kind of the naval section and that layered history that it has. But I think we as paranormal investigators really do have ourselves are very much the tool in so many ways. What we experience, what we see, what we hear, what we feel as an impression are just as important as something that you may get through on a particular type of gadget that might be used. Because like you mentioned, if something has been dominated specifically by a particular gender, that you might have a particular type of feeling kind of coming up.

01:08:51

You've got to be able to then associate some of those things with the history of that spot. And over time again collating that it's evidence of, well, this is the possible explanation of why in this area, people who come in have this feeling, this immersion, like you mentioned, of something, some kind of feeling that's oppressing that is different to elsewhere. And then comes that question, why? And there's the possible explanation of that because this is its history. Again, it's tying those and those making those connections.

01:09:25

And I think sometimes we can kind of close ourselves off from the experience of investigating because we can become so focused on something lighting up or something happening. But actually, we can miss so much having that experience. Being able to recognize that when we go into a location, us as the investigator is just as important. What do we feel, what do we pick up, what do we experience that's different in one spot to another spot? It's being so much aware of our own personal being within a location as well too, I think.

01:10:01

And again, somewhere like Bodman Jail is kind of critical for that, I think, because it can be so different from one area to another area as to what you pick up. I mean, listen, I have to work in this building sometimes by myself, or I don't have to. I choose to, and I clearly want to choose to. But I work in an environment that is changeable. It's fluctuating, it's never the same.

01:10:24

I need to be able to bring people in and make sure that they are safe. I need to make sure that people understand the world of paranormal and how these things are possible, explore the possibilities. I can't do that using a gizmo or a gadget. I have to get people to understand how this information transfers as language without words. I teach about energy connection.

01:10:48

I teach about telepathy. I teach about feeling your environments and understanding those sensory perceptions that you already have within yourself. Before we move on to the very few items that I use for investigation. Yes, audible recordings are phenomenal here, I can't deny that. And I would encourage anybody to take out any piece of equipment to record.

01:11:13

So whether that's an actual recorder that you spent hundreds of pounds on or whether it's just your phone, do that, because that could be evidence to what you're feeling. If you can't feel your environment, how are you going to explain what you've just got on a light lighting up? You can't. And so I have to also understand that. And something else I try and put across is that when I'm working here, I'm working with sometimes groups of like 40 people on a daily basis, changing through time periods as we go through the clock from 1 hour to another.

01:11:47

I need to be able to make sure all of those 40 people are safe. I need to do that in pitch black darkness. I need to do it with lights on. I need to do it when we're having downtime and when we're focused. How can I do that if I do not understand how to feel the environment around me?

01:12:04

And again, I think that feeling the environment around us is, again, something that I think all of us should be very much aware and mindful of, because when we're closed off to it, we miss things. We might miss something being spoken and you're missing that sound elsewhere. You might miss something that you're seeing because you're so focused on one spot, one thing, and you're missing the multitude, the layers of things that might be happening around you, including how you personally are feeling in that area. Again, it's just about being mindful, I think. And I think it's something we can divorce ourselves from because we can get so immersed in one particular thing when it comes to the paranormal and forget that it's something that really embodies and encompasses so many aspects.

01:12:51

And it's stepping back from that sometimes, having that moment of reflection and thinking, how can we improve how can we improve our own practices but also understand what's happening more? How can we be part of that process in understanding what's going on? And again, I think somewhere like Bodman jail. I mean, it's an incredible location to. Be able to kind of really kind.

01:13:19

Of immerse yourself in some of that because of the history, but being able to really strip back some of those things and experience the different types of things you might encounter along that journey, if that makes sense. Yeah, it does. And for me, it's easy because I'm going to use the word easy. All right, so it's not easy. It's very complex and very hard to do.

01:13:43

But I have an advantage, let's put it that way, that I have done this all my life. So I was born being able to connect in the ways that I connect to. So for me, it's very easy to transfer that understanding over again. I don't do that with Gadgets. I think I encourage me.

01:14:06

If you want to use all those things, you absolutely can. But you need to understand why that's going off. And that also falls down to science as well. It falls down to understanding the piece of equipment, what it's actually used for, how these vibrations happen to pick up these different types of sounds or light. So it is very complex and it's scientific as much as it is spiritual.

01:14:35

I'm just truly lucky that I have the understanding and knowledge, whether that's from a natural occurring phenomena or whether it's from physical education, that I can understand this building, even down to the fabrication of what it's made out of and how that collates information too. No, I completely agree with you. I've stood staring at rocks more than most people would, if that's not their job to do that.

01:15:05

Many of times if I talked to a piece of wall and thought, okay, this is going to look really strange on CC.

01:15:12

Nothing wrong with that. Just amuse myself no end. Nothing wrong with that. Or I'll suddenly stop and go, oh, my goodness me, where has that piece of stone gone? Because I've noticed the tiniest bit of stonework that's missing.

01:15:29

Yeah, but that's more physical. But I just amused myself as well. If we're thinking about the jail and its history and the people that have been through that one particular person's story, one particular individual story, who really resonates for you personally when you know what they experienced, what they went through, is something that stays with you and sticks with you. Oh, my gosh, there's so many.

01:16:01

I always have this problem if I go to a restaurant, which one do I really think is the most delicious looking piece? They're so different. Their histories are so different. You can kind of associate with them for different reasons. But I know it's a tough question.

01:16:20

Are we talking physical or spiritual? Either. So someone whose story that's just one that sits with you that you don't forget, who maybe doesn't come and reach? Of course, absolutely. I'd love to.

01:16:32

I'm going to go, first of all with a spiritual one, because this is what this building is about and the people who were once here, and they're truly, truly important to me. And I know no matter what anybody shares with me, I know that they listen to. So they'll be listening to all of this. Somebody in this building will be listening to all of this. But there's one lady in particular who really hit home to me, and that was a lady who became submerged within my energy.

01:17:05

And I got a reflection of her emotions and her physical clothes that she was wearing, and she had actually been assaulted by three individuals, all male, and she was just sharing her story with me. And it was so intense for those ten minutes that it overwhelmed me. It made me very emotional. It made me feel a fear that she felt and an actual lasting it gave me this vibration that stayed with me forever. And I don't think I will ever, ever forget meeting that lady on a very cold, very wet night and standing in a completely derelict, empty, abandoned building.

01:17:56

And that is what we now call was always known as our male civilian wing. And I just think that was very impacting for me. I've had hundreds, some funny, some scary, some just emotional like that. But I think that one spiritually will never, ever leave my side. The other more fun.

01:18:19

One spiritually is after COVID. And I felt three. I saw them running, and before I knew it, I felt these three people hug me as if they were greeting me back, and I just don't think I can ever quantify how amazing that experience was for me.

01:18:39

One physically was a gentleman who connected to his friend who he had lost. He'd been suffering trauma since that had occurred and had obviously been seeking mental health help and advice and encouragement and support at very, very high levels. And he came to the jail, and I connected him with his friend, which was just an honor every single time that I managed to do that. But this had such a profound it was such a profound experience for him that it left him with a huge impact that actually helped him to recover the loss of his best friend. And that was notable in medicine when he had gone back to his mental health team.

01:19:32

And I think that's quite incredible that you can do something like that for somebody and it has such a huge impact. And I have actually many stories like that. And of course, delivering the news to somebody that their loved one has passed away since they've been here at the jail is a very scary, enlightening, emotional and just an experience I will never, ever forget. Never forget. And there's a few very similar ones, including things like ongoing court cases and stuff like that.

01:20:11

Again, it's chilling, isn't it? You could just get lost in some of it, I think, sometimes, because the emotion behind it is something I think when you feel a connection like that, when you have an experience like that, it's something that does stay with you. So I can completely understand some of those that you think when that connection is there, when you feel it, when that energy is there, it really does stay with you. And I think it's part of the reason why for anybody who's interested in the paranormal, it's often those experiences that last far more. Yeah, I mean, defining small details of somebody's life when they've since gone, I've been able to transfer that information at such high levels to somebody and for them to say, oh, my goodness, how is that possible?

01:21:05

That not only would I know that that this could actually happen it's incredible. Is quite incredible. And as humans, we don't use our abilities enough and we don't connect to them. But it is an absolute privilege to be able to deliver work that I do to people who visit here and just the hope that they could get a glimmer or a chance to say or speak to their loved. Ones that have passed on, and then to be able to deliver information to family members of prisoners here that sometimes suffered the most traumatic ends to their life.

01:21:53

Like hanging is just this is why I come to work every day. This is why I love my job. This is why I'm so emotional about the building, because I don't think that people appreciate how much this building can absolutely. It's incredible. And I really do hope anybody listening who hasn't enjoyed visiting Bodmin, taking one of your tours or any of the other types of activities and events that please check it out, please go and visit.

01:22:33

Go and explore Cornwall. Because we should also say that this area itself is so fascinating. It's beautiful. I mean, it's rich with folklore, it's rich with history, it's legends. Miss, I mean, just thinking off the top of my head, the Beast of Bodman with the skull and all of these other things, again, attached with the jail, but also a part of the area.

01:22:55

I mean, it's phenomenal. It's incredible, really. Yeah, it is.

01:23:02

It's such a beautiful part of the country. And like you say, it's so steeped with folklore and legends. But are they just folklore? Again, it's such an important question.

01:23:15

That is a whole other podcast, I think, because they fascinating. They re incredibly fascinating and absolutely something that I think someone would love to explore, if they haven't already. So I hope this kind of motivates people to hope so and see the wider area for its beauty and that kind of history itself. And I think also it might be nice to add that, you know what, I spend a lot of time talking to this building and connecting, and I ask them the same questions. Was that real?

01:23:50

Did that actually happen? Can you hear what people are saying? What do you think of those stories? How do you see what we're doing now? I ask the most obscure questions.

01:24:02

I don't just ask, Is there anybody out there? Thankfully, that's a bit of a tired question, I think, within the paranormal.

01:24:14

So that's a good thing. I mean, forgive me for every person that does. It's a very logical question to ask. It is a logical question. What if they say no?

01:24:23

What next? Yeah, that's a conversation finisher, isn't it, really? No. You know what? It highlights personality and it explores the possibility that it's not all dark and gloom, but actually these people were people before they were ever prisoners.

01:24:41

Absolutely. And like you mentioned earlier, it's kind of tapping into the things that made them tick and things that they may be are something that would resonate with them, like language, like the Cornish language. There's so many things that for them would have been very real. But again, when you have glimmers of their personality and then them coming through, even if it's just saying no, to. Be facetious in here.

01:25:09

I've had people who have followed me around. I have people who try and practical joke me. I have some of the most incredible experiences and then I also get the ones who don't like me because I'm a female, I'm a woman. And that's not done in society to have a level of authority and responsibility in a building like this. So I have to remember I'm walking through a prison with a whole multitude of different personalities and different people and different experiences in their lives as well.

01:25:40

It's not just about them being a prisoner. So I absolutely implore people to just to come here and just submerge experience this building in its true capacity. And I'll make sure that details of the jail go on the podcast, description notes and on the website and so on, so that when it goes out live, thank you. Anybody listening will be easily signposted because just the website alone, you get so much information. There's so many things you share publicly, like documentation for those that have been executed, so you can actually read individual stories.

01:26:15

You're giving this information to the public for a reason. And so having that up on the website and up on the podcast, I hope people kind of take use of that and come and find out more and explore and like I said, come and possibly visit and visit Cornwall because I don't think people would regret it. It's a beautiful part of the world and an incredible part of no, thank you. History. So thank you so much for your time.

01:26:43

You are you're welcome. Paranormally. If people wanted to get an insight on some of the stuff that actually happens on Facebook, then I developed a Facebook page so that people could know that the stories I tell them about other people's experiences are true, because I actually document them and place them up there. There's photographs, there's video footage, sound recordings, and all upcoming things. Like, this podcast is up there already, so if people are interested, it's literally just there Crest and Honey, After Dark, the After Journey.

01:27:22

And like I said, I'll make sure that we get all of that up so that it's easy for people to find, because I know myself, if you're looking for something, it's sometimes you want to look for the most that you can't find. So having just click on that page. Actually, when you go to book the afterdark tickets, it's right at the bottom. But for clarity, you're very welcome to add that page, too. So, honestly, thank you so much for your time.

01:27:48

Very welcome. You have to come back again if anything changes, if anything happens, if there's some exciting new bit of research or something that you've uncovered, please. Totally. Always. And, yeah, maybe a podcast on dogs.

01:28:04

Yes. Animals or Cornwall, just other experiences. Because, of course, we shouldn't forget that you have such a long history with the paranormal. It's not just bodman jail. This is something that you've been very much interested in for longer your whole life.

01:28:24

My whole life. I'm sure lots more stories that we could possibly share and do. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, you're very welcome to. It's been an absolute pleasure, and thank you so much for asking.

01:28:35

Because you know what? It's so important for me that people get the realistic view of this building and actually have an understanding of why we have the reputation that we have here, paranormally around the world. Yeah, I agree. And for me as well, I think it's important to get some of the real history and the real paranormal activity, because sometimes it can be very different to what actually happens and things get muddled up or something gets put out there as fact when it's not.

01:29:08

A link to or. I'll send you the name of a book that was written about paranormal phenomena by a gentleman called richard Estepp, and he wrote the hanging pit. I've read it. He's been on as a guest. He is phenomenal.

01:29:26

He is absolutely phenomenal. I've just spent a week with him and he is very excitingly writing his second book on the paranormal at Bob and Jail. So something for people to look forward to because his books really are such a deep dive into areas. Sign your book for you so you have a signed copy as well. My gosh, I would love that.

01:29:52

That's also something else. If anybody has purchased this book, has got it, I'm very happy to sign copies for them. It was such an experience and I know Richard really encourages me to do that as well. But his words that are written are absolutely 100% fact. He wouldn't have it any other way, but he knows I also wouldn't have allowed it if it wasn't, so yeah, it's a really good book.

01:30:21

Interesting. And it's an easy read. It's easy to read that book. It's not hefty it's not quantum physics. No.

01:30:28

And I think you have to have that flair of writing to be able to do that, to share the history. As well as incredible. Still have humor, but still be imparting wisdom and information and knowledge and experience. He is just such a natural writer, I think possibly because of his career, but being able to speak with so many different people, I think means he's a very good communicator. And that comes through in his writing.

01:30:58

Yeah, it does. And I hope this time he puts paranormal bloopers in the second book. But that definitely won't be for the faint hearted, I can assure you, because. He is very funny. He's hysterical.

01:31:12

I've worked with him now for over three years and let me tell you, he's one of my kindred souls, I have to say that.

01:31:24

You know what? I can't wait to go over and visit him too, again. That would be lovely for you, I bet. Yeah. Honestly, I could talk to you forever, I think, because honestly, you are so passionate about what you do, and it's so lovely to have that.

01:31:38

So thank you so much for your time. It's been incredible. And I'll say goodbye to everybody listening. Bye, everybody. Goodbye.

01:31:57

If you've made it to the very end of the podcast and value what content and guests I try and put out, please could you help take part in the following challenge to help celebrate our 100th podcast episode? I need your help. If you listen on Apple or have never listened to the podcast over there but are able to, please head on over, listen to an episode or several, please leave a review over the month of April to celebrate our 100 episodes. I'm hoping we can achieve 100 reviews on the Apple platform. If we do, then I'm looking to set up some live question and answer calls along with some other events to help celebrate us achieving this.

01:32:35

Target Haunted History Chronicles . Chronicles podcasts needs you. Thank.