S3E9 'AIN'T NOBODY GOT TIME FOR THAT' -SPECIAL GUEST ANNA WEIDMAN

Don P-Pafifer Podcast Productions: Sure, we're toggled, so you're toggled now. I'm toggled. Our guest will be toggled. That's the best part, showing everyone else. How are you? I'm good. I well now that you've toggled me, I feel refreshed and young and vibrant. ⁓ I feel like a new person. Hmm. I I am a new person now, thanks to you. Ugh, well. And only you. Well. I haven't been toggled in a very long time. Listen, my toggle Dance cart has not been toggled. God. Anyway, ⁓ I'd be fine. It's a little warm here, so as soon as we're done, I want to get outside. It's cold out here. It's like it's it's windy and bless you. We got into the the you know the the marine layer of it's early May Gray June gloom kind of stuff. Well let's see, what does it say here? Well no, it says sixty-eight. But it feels warmer. Where? Here or there? No, here in San Francisco it says sixty eight right now, but it feels warmer. Is the sun out? It is. Okay. Yes. But I haven't been you know, when I'm inside my little cubby hole here in my dining room, ⁓ I couldn't tell you if it's raining, snowing, thunder. I couldn't tell you. But those days last week that was like in the eighties, I'm done with work. I ⁓ I'm just gonna hop over to the gym across the courtyard. Mm-hmm. I open the front lobby door and that wall of heat just Knocks me on my ass. Luckily it's air conditioned in the gym, so I don't feel the heat. But I'm just you know. Yeah, we get heat, but not like Southern California and I like other parts. So Well, I could use some other parts right now because right like I said, cold. Chilly. Don't like it. Didn't sign up for this. So ⁓ happy hump day. Happy hump day. ⁓ we haven't done that in a long time. It's a Wednesday, it's hump day. Can't forget it. How's your home? Yeah, they could use some toggling. I was gonna say that. Real bad. But ⁓ I know we're gonna take a break in a minute, but we have a guest who's joining us. Yes. And ⁓ we will spend some time with her and learn about what's going on in her life. Yes. ⁓ but ⁓ yeah, so hope that I've we've been pumping out the episode recordings, haven't we? Well, we've been recording a lot right now and then they'll be spread out over time, so Right. This is the second one this week and we've a third one coming up in a couple days. So Yeah, we're we're that's called front loading. Or pumping on hump day. Pump on the hump day. It's a happy pump day. Pumping on the hump day. Yeah, you know what? We're we're lucky we've had some guests who said yes. Some we didn't know if they would. Right. I was a little surprised. And so that'd be nice surprise. Yes. ⁓ and I know that I've you've got one other one that we haven't mentioned yet who ⁓ Desiree? Yes, Desiree. Desiree. We're looking for you, Desiree. And ⁓ so she'll be coming up. We haven't committed ⁓ a time and date with her. But ⁓ you know, it's season three and we gotta get the crack that whip. And by the time this came out, we'll let we'll have let Marty Bean out of the can. I know. He's the superstar of season three. It's been a running Joe since season two at the end. And then the beginning of this season when we just Or Marty. Let me outta here. So yeah, ⁓ I guess should we take a break and come right back? Take break and come back and welcome everyone and make sure everyone's toggled. Yes. Okay. I guess the word of the day is toggled. Well, that's your job, I think. Well. You're the master toggler. Someone has to do it. Mm-hmm. We'll be right back. Back. Yes, we are. I promise not to ask you if you've toggled, but we have to make sure that everyone is toggled. So that'll be our secret word. Okay. Well, welcome to the Dagon Don and Gary the poo-poo. I am rusty. I am so rusty. No, no, no, you are Don. Okay, well I am Gary. I'm still rusty. This is the Don and Gary podcast. We are living proof that giving as a podcast and a voice might still be a bad day after three ideas. ⁓ my God. What's wrong with me? Take two. I'm gonna cut that. Welcome to the Don and Gary Podcast. We're living proof that giving us a podcast and a voice might still be a bad idea after three years. Right? Right. We're here to unpack and navigate and unwrap the world at this age. And Don, by the way, what age is that? I'm not gonna talk about that right now because I'm in a good mood. Cause you said the Don and Gary podcast, but technically it's the Don and Gary doing sixty. Podcast, which would imply that that we're Don and Gary doing 60. And we're not doing 60 miles per hour. Sixty episodes? We're not there yet. Okay, right. Yeah, okay, fine. Don and Gary doing sixty podcast because we're sixty plus years old. This is a big moment, Pete. Don't worry, I'll cut this out later. No one's ever gonna know. Listen, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. You can watch us on YouTube at PfyferPod. Please go and see all of our older episodes, all of our shorts, all of our commercials. There's lots of good stuff in there. And we are on Instagram and Facebook. We're on Blue Sky. We're just basically everywhere, right? And don't forget the main. Our Main Hub is the website that's hosted by PodPage. Folks, I'm sorry. I thought I had it together today. Podpage. That's why I'm here, Don. I'm just to pick up your crumbs. Yes. Please come and visit us on the website hosted by Podpage. You can leave us voicemail. You can see all of our old episodes. You can see what's happening next. You can see clips from all of our other ⁓ commercials and shows like we do on YouTube. So yeah, it's a great place to go. We'd love to hear from you. And Gary, when can where can they leave us an email? That would be Don and Gary Doin60 at gmail.com. Okay. I promise to have it together. We're waiting. No, not for you. We're waiting for them. ⁓ well, actually our our guest is here. Do we want to talk about who this is before we bring them in? Well, big surprise people. We have someone else we know from high school. We knew a lot of people in high school. We're not running out yet either. It's really good. No, no, there's more coming. Right. So ⁓ yeah, let's let her in and start chatting. Okay. Here we go. Nope. Hi. Hey. We were just saying that we know a Yes. Yes. We're just saying we know a lot of people from high school and they just keep coming. We're an endless number of people that we know after all these years. So welcome. Thanks. Yes, and Anna just just so you know, before we get started, I want to let you know that you have been toggled. Toggled is the key word of the day because if we don't toggle each other, we happen to have reverb or ⁓ We can hear an echo. So Gary taught us that if we're not toggled, we can't continue. So luckily for all of us, we are toggled. I know that took a lot of worry out of your day. I did not know I had been toggled or the importance of being so toggled. Believe me, you'll know when you've been toggled. And let me tell you, being toggled on a a Wednesday hump day, that's a good thing. Yes. ⁓ are we gonna go there, Gary? Well, it's early. We've got lots of time. Lots of time, so there's plenty of time to go there. So Anna is our special guest today. As I said before you join us, we know a lot of people in high school and they keep coming. So thank you for joining us. Thank you. Do we do we know do we know Anna's last name? There's nothing written there. We'll just leave it as Anna. Just ⁓ just Anna. That's always mysterious Anna who's there's no other Anna in the world. The one and only. The one and only. So we're just gonna jump right into it. So again, we know from high school. So were you born and raised in the Bay Area? I was born and raised in the Bay Area. I've lived here essentially all my life. And then when you graduated, did you stay in the area? ⁓ I did. I stayed in the I actually got my first job, my first professional job senior year before I'd even graduated. And so I was doing double duty as a graduating senior and working full time. Wow. Yeah. And that was my first job in scholarly publishing. So that was a really great, you know, great foray straight from school to the career I really wanted to have. So I want to talk a little bit about high school. Well no we won't dwell on it. But the one question I haven't asked any of our other guests from high school, did you enjoy it? Did you have a good time or or was it like you were just wanting to get out fast? No, I I actually loved being a student and I loved the teachers. I thought we had incredible teachers in our public school in you know, in San Mateo. And I a lot of friends, you guys among them. And I really enjoy I mean, there are aspects of course of the high school experience that none of us enjoy, but I I really did enjoy it. I enjoyed the learning part and the friends part. I was the same way. I didn't I mean I know Don is him. We'll get to me in a second. I have a question. Well, Gary and I were in a group that was doing dinner parties in high school. Like we had a monthly we were going to fancy restaurants. Sometimes the fancy restaurants didn't know what to do with a bunch of high school kids. But we were we were generous tippers and and certainly gourbons. So it was we did Moroccan, we did Spanish. We really you know, I remember ⁓ very fancy dinner at Julius's castle on the top of Yeah Hill. Castle, fancy. And ⁓ the Moroccan restaurant was Mamunas. Mamunas, exactly. Back in like the outer sunset, outer Richmond, way out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all coming back to me now. Yeah. But Anna, something I wanted to ask you about because Gary and I spoke about it briefly, was that you were ⁓ part of a group of people that were was it the accelerated studies program or AP with Dr. Fisher and Mrs. Brooke Knight and all those people. Yeah. What was it called? ⁓ wasn't it like Wasn't it advanced placement? In current parlance, we guess I guess we just call it advanced placement or something like that. But you know, and in really throwback days we would call it the gifted kids program, but we don't say that anymore. You you were part of the gifted group as I remember. I was not. She was no I wasn't even I didn't even get through the front door of the gifted group. I wasn't even allowed to look at the front spence of the gifted group. So Yeah, no, because you guys took all the accelerated classes and Yes. I never got invited, so you know. And I still knew them. So I felt kinda smart because I knew s I knew many of them. so studying was obviously very important to you. Did you do any extracurricular activities like band or choir or any sports or anything? I really didn't. I ⁓ I had been a very serious athlete before high school, but I had dropped out of competitive swimming by the time I started high school. That's what I thought, 'cause weren't you a a a lifeguard? No, I was not a lifeguard, but I was a very, very serious competitive swimmer before high school. Okay. I was briefly in in the involved with the drama department at at our high school. So I did, you know, s not so much acting at that point. I was doing some like I did a choreography thing once for one of the musicals and, you know, that was fun. But I actually I was already looking beyond high school, truthfully. And so as soon as I got my wheels Which was sixteen, a nineteen sixty two VW bug. I was ⁓ driving off to first to Palo Alto sort of ⁓ for the first year and then San Francisco when Palo Alto got too slow and sleepy for me. ⁓ but ⁓ and I was I was definitely hanging out with college people, you know, in my last years of high school. She was always I always think of you like regal Anna, like smart and regal and you wouldn't be caught any foolishness at school of you know, of I honestly regret that. I think I think I'm less mature now than I was then and I'm having more fun. But I understand some fun, some kind of raucous activities got it were got getting up to in high school and I was too busy following all the rules. That's allegedly, Anna. That's not possibly true that I had anything to do with burning anything down or starting a karuck a fuckus or ⁓ having a party or anything like that. I would never do that in Alcohol was never involved and neither were cigarettes. So No, never. It's all a it's all a bad tag that Gary tries to hang on me every time we talk about it. But such an alternative. I think maturity is overrated. And I certainly was all about being mature. So you're out of high school, you're out in the real world, you said you got a job as a senior and what it was then in publication? I was I was working for the University of California Press. I'd been there as a unpaid intern for credit my senior year. And so when a full time job opened up, the first publishing jobs in the w especially on the West Coast are very, very few and far between. So I just applied for it. And lo and behold, I ended up staying there thirty years. So I started I really loved it. It was not the sum total of my career, but it was the bulk of it. And ⁓ and I absolutely and I rose up through the ranks. I ended up being assistant director and chief financial officer, you know, but it was it was really a remarkable place to sort of grow up at work. Wow. Amazing. And then you were also at that Berkeley. After that, you d decided to go to somewhere else. Yeah, I went ⁓ I stayed with the same employer, which is the statewide University of California, but I ended up going to the Berkeley campus. And so my last eight years before I retired quite early at sixty were ⁓ I was the assistant dean for arts and humanities at Berkeley. Wow. So that was also unexpectedly joyful. I mean it was a really wonderful sort of last professional chapter. And you s you said you retired at sixty, was so is that something you 'cause you knew you needed A change or a new chapter or well, two things. First of all, I had the great fortune of working thirty nine years for ⁓ an employer that had a pension. So I certainly knew that was possible to rich it was not desirable to do it before sixty, but certainly possible at sixty. But honestly, it was more my father had died tragically without warning at forty three when I was thirteen, and I have grown up Some people we now call it the bucket list. I I grew up knowing nothing is guaranteed and I wanna live to the fullest. And so if I had the chance to retire early, ⁓ and be comfortable enough and provide for my family, I was gonna do it. And that's what I did. Wow. Well, we live vicariously through your social media posts. So very curated life, my social media posts. It's only about rowing and and travel. What do you think about the current state for the children now getting through college and the cost to go to get a proper education these days? I I mean I I really it's it's criminal honestly what what education costs in this country because I my parents were both teachers. I have I have two degrees from Berkeley. I I love education and learning. I think ev it's a privilege and a right that everyone should have. And the fact that kids are now graduating with huge, huge debt. We won't even go into it, but you know, ⁓ the whole education system is being actively dismantled also is our two terrible things that we're s we've saddled future generations with. The reason why I ask is because at the time when we were leaving high school, going to college, you could go to ⁓ San Francisco State for a very, very nominal t fee for almost nothing if you lived in the county or in this in the state. And also going to like a I went to Cunyatta College, which was a junior college, it cost nothing. And it was a wonderful college. Yeah. Yes. And there and CSM was there too. And I just I see, I feel so much for the the people growing up these days who have to go in just to get a basic, you know, basic bed education. It costs so much. And I'm seeing that, you know, f parents are going into debt to get their children through high school. If they can get a scholarship, it helps a bit. But if they choose to go someplace out of state or on their own where they have to live off campus and pay for housing. ⁓ my gosh, it's a crazy, crazy thing right now. And I'm wondering if people now are devaluing an education because of the cost or how prohibitive it is. I I think we could we could go deep into this subject. And but I I do think, I mean, it's we're at a very interesting time. And and young my my son, I have a b wonderful son, the joy of my life, who's 25, and call a gr college graduate from UCSB. And it's a terrible time to look for a work, you know, as a young person right now. So but I do still believe, ⁓ and I all still counsel kids, you know, high school age kids, kids thinking about college about the importance of college and also the importance of a liberal arts education. I think there's no better preparation than liberal arts, even though that has been s really devalued. Yeah, you know. People think they have to be business majors or computer science majors at 18 and it just or accounting, God forbid. And it seems, you know, it just seems criminal to to narrow your focus and your path that in that way. Well, I didn't mean to take us down a negative rabbit hole, but it's just something I wanted your comments on it because you were so much part of the s the ⁓ programs that actually ⁓ helped people become educated and be a part of that. So first round of ⁓ retirement, did you find yourself prepared for retirement? I know you said you took it Voluntarily. So were you mentally and ready to s not have that work in front of your eyes every day? ⁓ was I prepared? So so much so that I am regularly held up by some of my still working friends and former colleagues as the poster child for retirement. But I I decided well, first of all, I turned sixty about one week after I retired. So I I technically retired in my fifties, but I've I don't Hang on that technicality, it's too obnoxious. Show off. But I I had a you know, blowout sixtieth birthday celebration with girlfriends. And then I I did the thing I was most calling to me with that new unstructured time, which is I spent a good chunk of that fall visiting friends who had moved away or that I knew knew far away and staying with them, kind of dropping into their life like ⁓ for a week. And just, you know, because I'd seen f I'd seen my East Coast friends on business trips and whatnot, but it was always a day or a dinner or something. But to actually s be with them for a week and see experience their lives really put us back in touch and really it was really magical. So that was a a huge cornerstone of that first year was was travel. And and I've continued to work, you know, do volunteer a lot of volunteer work. I've always had volunteer commitments. So I serve on a couple of boards. ⁓ and I I certainly wanted to do that. But the other real structuring part of my retirement is my passion for this crazy hard sport that I do called competitive rowing. So I tell people I can ⁓ in retirement I can't tell you what day of the week it is, but I can tell you if it's a rowing day or a non rowing day. Wow. So take us back to the beginning. Where did the interest start? I mean, did you do rowing as a child or was it a family thing or? Not at all. ⁓ I discovered rowing in my fifties, not ⁓ when my son started rowing in high school. So I had my I had my son, my only child, quite late. I was thirty-six when he was born. And when he was in high school, he started rowing. ⁓ and I fell madly in love with the sport. I loved being a rowing mom. I loved going to the regottas. I even loved driving his carpools with the other with the other boys in the car. and For some foolish reason, even though I knew that there was masters rowing out there and I had one two friends at church that were were doing it, I just didn't think I should try it until he went away to college. I thought it would be too embarrassing for him and I I regret that decision. But I started at fifty six and, you know, that was seven years ago now. It is it is one of my consuming passions. It's a reason for travel. It's it's certainly a huge group of my friends and fellowship comes from that community and I absolutely adore it. And it's crazy hard. And I'm not that good, but I'm trying to get better. Well Is it a challenge with a s are you trying to beat a speed record or something that you continue to push forward there there are so many challenges ⁓ in this sport. I mean it's one of it's I suppose it's like other sports in that you can never really master it. You know, you always strive for for being better and better, but and and our bodies are aging and all. But in rowing, your age is n is also a a competitive advantage. You actually ⁓ get time taken off or time taken off your times in races depending on your age group. So ⁓ so I can I can beat a twenty year old rower theoretically, even if I'm slower. Right, right, right. You know? And and I'm really being evaluated in terms of raw statistics against people my age. So how do I stack up against other sixty three year old rowers in terms of my times? I know, Don, I think you use the rowing machine. Don't say it like that, huh? It's still a machine and it's still rolling. Yeah, no, no, no. I'm saying I we so do we. We trade on it. So Well, I mean, 'cause I mean, I I know we're we're gonna get on a little bit of a rat hole 'cause I'm very passionate about it too. But there's so much involved with regards to ⁓ the the form that you use. that I mean I've gotten through s there's so many people that are passionate about it. Luckily with the program I have, you can actually go and do videos and get education on your form and of course look at your your your heat and how much you're ⁓ rowing per minute and all these other things. But I have to say it's also an incredibly good exercise for us that it's not something going to ruin your joints or your your elbows or your knees or your hips or anything like that. It's just such good work for your body too. And I found it Yeah, full body exercise, low impact. And you can do it in your you can do it as long as you live, honestly. And one of my favorite teammates ⁓ is she started at 75. And she rows and competes at eighty nine. So eighty nine. You know. And she's it regularly in the boat with me. So how deep is the water? Where are you rowing? Is it very deep? We're rowing in the Oakland estuary, so it's it's deep enough for you know commercial ship travel. Wow. So I I'm not touching the bottom when I fall in, but then I don't fall in. It's not you d you actually don't go in the drink. Right you stay in your boat. And so when you are ⁓ training or when you're traveling to go to a competition, is it always the same team or are you joining different teams in different tournaments? I I belong to a very robust and healthy club of a hundred and fifty masters rower called the East Bay Rowing Club. And there are several rowing clubs in the Bay Area. And so I'm mostly, almost exclusively competing with my team and for my my team, which is great because it really solidifies your your rapport. Nothing's nothing Helps you with your ⁓ adult friendships more than a road trip together. But ⁓ but I did once last fall, I did go t on my own with three other teammates to compete at the World Masters Championships in Spain last fall. And that we did outside of the club. That was something we kind of did on our own dime and organized and trained for ourselves. Okay, two questions. How many days a week are you actually rowing, or does it vary? It's always four days a week unless I'm training when I was training for Worlds it was five days a week. So and I do weight training on off days. So I'm I'm pretty much working out every day. ⁓ my gosh. And what bec what makes you a master? A mas just age. We're not the leaders. Yes. We're not collegiate. We're masters. That's it's instead of saying old, the old rowers. I'd rather say master. Yes. That's good. Master sounds better. We'll have to work that into the podcast, Todd. Massive. Your best podcast. ⁓ it ⁓ the you know, the largest rowing race in the world is in Boston, the head of the Charles, and I have the great good fortune to get to do that one time. But they they really play that up. I think the ⁓ sixties category is like the grand masters or something like that. And the eighties category must be the supreme masters. So, you know, the older you are the the more illustrious you are. Well just think if my mother, who's gonna be ninety nine in June, I know, you're about to look embrace rower. Yeah. She'd be like the high empress of some kind. The high empress on on the water, absolutely. Wow. ⁓ educate me because I'm not familiar with rowing. Is it a certain number of team members and is it co ed or is it like th there's a women's team and a men's team, or how does that work? ⁓ it's a co ed sport and we try to be very, very inclusive at our club, you know, so we have Some same sex or same sex squads, but we are primarily integrated. And most of the races are by gender, but there are there is a mixed rowing category and that's a category I've tended to do really, really well in. So they would have equal number of men and women in the boat. So two two men, two women, four four men, four women. Okay. And does this fulfill your competitive spirit? Because you said at the very beginning you were a competitive swimmer before we started. And now this helps maybe fire that up in you still as being competitive. Yeah, I mean I guess my friends would tell you I was I've always been a competitive person, you know, in what ⁓ whatever aspect. But yes, I was very surprised how much when I when I got my first medal in rowing, how much that meant to me. And Yeah. And and I feel still feel like I chase medals to a certain degree. If you're really good and you're just getting so many medals, you don't care about the medals, but I still care about the medals. Well, we we were hoping you were gonna come to the podcast with your all your medals up to your neck like a turtleneck, so we could see all the medals that you've won. And I I'm hoping to share the podcast with my fellow teammates, so I could not possibly do that. ⁓ So from the time you were a competitive swimmer, there's a gap of years that you Were you doing anything else or 'cause you are focused on I would I'm a hiker. I would work out. I ran two marathons at one point when I was trying to get my body back after childbirth. But I'm not a r I'm not a runner. I just did that for that intense purpose. But no, I really didn't have a sport. I certainly I mean, even swimming, which I was very good at as a kid, I didn't feel the kind of passion I have for this sport. So I really kind of had an absence of forty years from any kind of racing, you know. It was just about fitness. And it's still about fitness. Fitness is really important. I wanna I wanna be able to travel and do everything I wanna do as long as possible. That's right, you know, it's a huge motivating thing for me. And I think in retirement something that we hear a lot about that is also incredibly good and important for us as we age is to stay active. Absolutely. Also remain very socially active if possible. Because what we hear many times, and one of the reasons we've started the podcast was because we were hearing about so much isolation that comes with people as they age. So I think this is a wonderful venue for people to be involved in because it it includes, of course, physical activity, then competitiveness you talk about, but also very social. There's a lot of people talking, getting to know each other, becoming friends and colleagues and and competitive rowers. But it's those are two really important. factors to being retired or getting older too that people forget about. So this might be a great opportunity for people to become involved with this group or these groups. Yeah. No, I mean I it's ⁓ absolutely my favorite part of rowing is the people. I mean it attracts really high achieving people from all walks of life who can handle doing something extremely hard that you really have to commit to. Very early in the morning and and they're from all walks of life and all ages. So I have because of my rowing community, and that's I'm in the gr I you know, that's just one of the many communities I have in my life, but but in this community, I have some young friends. I have really two really great friends I've made in in their thirties. And that's not very common, you know, to make young friends in your sixties. Right. Just a quick story too. I don't know, do you remember Joe Andrews? Of course I do. I I actually knew Joe Joey as I call him from like nursery school. I think our parents t our fathers taught in the same at CSM at community college. The reason I bring him up is because he had a very similar story where he was a ⁓ he started to run marathons. I don't know if you know this story, but he started to run marathons and then he was also becoming triathlete and he said, I can't do this. And people in his group of that he joined with this triathlete group basically said, Let's just try it. We're gonna run a little bit, we're going to swim a little bit, and we're going to bike a little bit. And eventually he became so involved in it, became such a social and physical passion of his that he now leads the group and runs it. So I mean, I think there's so much there for so many people if they would just get past the possible, you know, this the nervousness of getting on a bike or getting on a a rowing machine or a rower. Sorry, what would you call it? Row a rower. A rowboat? A rowing machine, an erg. It's called an erg, but yeah. Okay. I didn't know that. But see, I think there's so much there and I think people might want to explore that a bit because it seems like such a great way to stay, as I said, involved and active and social. Agreed. ⁓ when I was training for the marath the one the marathon I ran, I ran two. One was in preparation for the marathon. It was incredibly social. I mean, I was I had a cohort that I ran with every every week on our training run and a group of them were still very good friends. One one is one of my best friends who hosted that sixtieth birthday party for me. And I remember distinctly that l the Luna bars, which are I think Berkeley based, the health the nutrition bar, they ran a little campaign around that time that said, Leave it to women to turn marathoning marathoning into a social activity. ⁓ But it certainly was for me because we were running at a pace we could still maintain a reasonable b amount of conversation. We did not set any time records for our marathon, but we did complete them. And you had fun and you enjoyed it and Yeah yeah. So one of the questions we ask, and I I think ⁓ I know the answer already is we know, but 'cause you by doing this you keep yourself young and active. But for some people as they age, ⁓ Certain turning certain birthdays could be challenging or like I'm not looking forward to it or they dread it. Thinking back to any age, is there any age that they said this was a hard one to turn? I I've generally found the decade birthdays to be wonderful reasons for celebrating. I find the nine birthdays hard. You're you're not Yeah. And you don't make a big plan. But I mean Honestly, last last summer I turned sixty three, which I would have thought is a nothing birthday. And it was one of the most joyful birthdays of my life. And it was completely unexpected. ⁓ you know, it's like it's hard to know. But you know, I felt good and things good things were happening in my life. So, you know it's a little bit of a you know, about keeping a positive attitude and so I'm the same way. Well, my fortieth I went to Europe. My fiftieth We did a big party. My sixtieth I did a big party. So yeah, the the the decade ones have always been, you know, a b a big celebration. But I don't I've never been one to like I I don't even think about my age sometimes. Well and I don't I don't hide. I I'm seeing a friend tonight and she won't I literally I've known her forty years and I don't know how old she is because she she won't celebr I mean I remember throwing her a thirtieth birthday party, but I don't know how many years ago that was. And she's only just recently stopped admitting to be anything more than thirty nine. I think she's now copping to forty nine. I've never been. I'm I mean, as I mentioned, my dad died so young. I feel proud to be the age. I'm twenty years older than he ever got to be. So I want to live and have some of the experiences that he didn't get to have. Right. And I've also I'm not to get sober, but I lost two friends, you know, way too young, right before I retired, honestly, the year the year leading up to my retirement. I had two friends my age die and I think about them pretty regularly when I'm doing something hard. I'm like sure I'm not sure I can make it to the top of this mountain and then I start saying their names and I'm think I'm climbing this mountain because they can't. You know? ⁓ that's amazing. In your career Careers. Have you ever seen any specific examples or have you experienced any specific examples of ageism towards you or towards the industry that you were working in or the profession that you had? Have you ever seen it? Or experience more importantly? You know, really not at the university and not in publishing, except for because I became a senior man. I became chief financial officer at UC Press when I was 30, which was crazy or young, I actually did experience ageism at the opposite end of the scale. I I really felt like people were putting me down. And I was a woman, which is also pretty unusual, or at least it was at that time in the finance field. Mm-hmm. I literally, I remember distinctly being on the East Coast at 30 in in this new role and being in some board meetings and getting some remarks made to ⁓ towards me and thinking, ⁓ I think that was sexism. It was almost like I'd I'd read about it in textbooks, but I hadn't experienced it growing up. You know, during women's lib on the West Coast, I hadn't really seen it or felt it. And then all of a sudden I'm thirty and I'm in big big boy meetings and I just I was like incredulous. ⁓ that really exists. So I have not I have not felt experienced the kind of ageism you're talking about. Okay. Well that's that's good. It's just that I think people were seeing someone who is very talented driven and were probably put off by that a little bit. Yeah, maybe. I mean I who knows? Right. All right. I have another question for you. Okay. Are you one that keeps a bucket list? Well, again, yes, because of my father's early death, I, you know, from a very early age started thinking about things that I needed to do, and I just started doing them. I had I like you, I traveled on my 30th birthday. I was taking a solo trip, a very ambitious solo hiking trip in Norway, and I learned about w during my reading on that trip, I I read for the first time about the Camino Santiago de Compostela in Spain. And I said, This is great. I'm really getting to r know myself again on my own at thirty. And I should always take a month off on my decade birthdays and do this. So when I turn forty, I'm gonna take a month and d and walk the Camino, not realizing that I would be a y n a fairly new mom when I turned forty. And so I did not walk the Camino at forty. But I walked it at forty three. ⁓ when my son was old enough to leave sort of leave behind. So, but those those kinds of things. I mean, and and I just try to check as many of them off as possible. ⁓ so so that's that's what I do. Yeah. Same here. I I've got a few things, but mostly it's travel, place I haven't been to. Yeah. ⁓ but ⁓ I'm not as ambitious as you, I tell you. I've I I need to maybe rethink my list. So and is there any place that you have never visited that you would like to that would be part of Gary's question on the bucket list? Is there someone you have been putting in your pocket? I do feel I have I even though I'm well traveled and I I mean I'm leaving on a trip in ten days, I have never been to the continents of Asia or Africa. And those are very much on my list. I had an amazing trip to New Zealand, so I've been in the southern hemisphere at least. I did that with my family ⁓ a year and a half ago. But I really feel like ⁓ those are both gaps and h ones that I hope to remedy. Okay. And you're enjoying rowing so much. Do you see yourself 'cause you said your friend is eighty nine, do you see yourself just continuing? I I honestly at this point I can't imagine my life without rowing. Wow. Well, you're inspiring me right now. I have to look into the local rowing clubs. There's gotta be something somewhere. I I can put you in touch. There's some good clubs near you, Don. Yeah. Really? Not in LA though, right? Somewhere else closer, I hope. ⁓ there absolutely are good clubs. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Thanks. Or Don, you can row from there to here. Well, I don't want to go down the the rowing thing again because I I'll start talking and asking you a bunch of questions about that. And Gary's eyes will glaze over. How is your relationship with technology? Because you know a pa lot of people make fun of us boomers not being able to handle our phones or the the remote or their cars or whatever. How's your relationship with technology? I think I we have a a good friendship, but I'm not I don't have a passion for it. Like I don't have to upgrade everything every time it comes out, like some people I know. And I find I do think I definitely, especially when I was at the university with older professors, I could see people kind of getting paced out, you know, like if they retired, they couldn't handle two two factor authentication to just check their email accounts and things like that. So I'm I'm really fine with all of that, but I'm not somebody who's on the cutting edge. And my son occasionally does roll. He's twenty five and he occasionally rolls his eyes. More at more at me than his father, but ⁓ I mean less at me than than his f he does at his father, but I I definitely have not I don't have a twenty five year old's love of technology. Gotcha. So where's your opinion on AI these days? Where do you think it's going? What do think? I don't I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it mostly because I'm out of the career stream. I I think I would worry about it a lot if I were still a working person. I think there's some amazing tools that are coming out of AI and particularly in the arts, which is a an industry that I care a great deal about. I worry about actors and singers and people getting compensation for their labor, their gifts, their talent in that in those arenas. That that's where I have my worries about AI. But in terms of freeing us up from some of the r routine stuff, you know, it feels like there are some great positive things coming out of it too. Absolutely. question because you mentioned volunteer work and I have also done a lot of volunteer work. I'm in my first year of being a volunteer for the fire department. Yes, right. I've seen your posts. Yeah. Our neighborhood association started in 2008, so however many years that is. So a lot of long term commitments. If you if you like, share any of the volunteer organizations that you work with and and what you know what you do. Sure. I mean one of one of the ones that I really enjoyed and I did this for for just under a decade was I worked I was on the board of the Freight and Salvage, which is a music venue in Berkeley. Now does world music. It was sort of c got on the map more than fifty fifty-five years ago as a folk music venue, but they really do all kinds of music. And that wasn't marvelous. It was a a woman I'd served on another board, preschool board with, who got me onto that board. And I loved it because of the people I met and of one of the people I met was a professional recording artist and she's now one of my great friends and we hike every month together and you know, so I I met really wonderful people. I really love that organization. I'm also an Episcopalian and I attend church, even though I know that's weird and strange. And I am on my fourth term of of duty ⁓ on that board. So I've I've served on that board in my thirties, my forties, my fifties and now my sixties. in a three year term and I've love that work too because that's a really important place and group of people for me. ⁓ and I'm very, very happy to support them. And I've done, you know, literacy boards and other boards, things that were very important to my my mom. ⁓ so I spent the second year of my retirement ⁓ volunteering ⁓ to work on campaign. ⁓ I I adopted a red state, Arizona. And worked on the Ruben Gallego for Senate campaign and also on the national presidential election, which didn't go so well. So that was a huge, huge part of my volunteer commitment in that in the year leading up to the presidential election. Mm-hmm. Well, you just keep very busy. It's amazing. And and your energy is good. I mean you just keep do you feel I sh I figure you feel younger than your actual number of ages, the number of years because you're so active and you're s you're so involved in some of the things. I feel I feel like I'm in generally in the best shape I've ever been in in my life, you know, and I really love that aspect of of being this age. But I do also experience my b I mean, I had a knee sprain recently, not from rowing, from weight training, but ⁓ you know, stuff stuff tends to break down a little bit, you know. And I even complained to my doctor recently. I said, I'm seeing you too much. No. And and she's younger than me significantly. And she sort of said, It's okay, you know, that happens as you get older. ⁓ but it's but I'm not in poor health. It's just, you know, not everything is is always working exactly the way we want it to. No. Believe me, there's noises we make now just standing up. That I knew never used to make. As soon as we get up from this podcast, I'll be going, I hate that Don, did you have your ⁓ your speed round of questions? Or you have to I did, but I wanted to ask well well, one more question too. Is there any question that you would like people to stop asking you? I love talking to people. Okay. And I love I love getting people's attention. Honestly. I I love no. I mean I I can't think of something that I've been asked. No, that's okay because there's sometimes, you know, people just like there's all the phrases like, ⁓ you look so good for your age. How old are you? It's like, ⁓ you're that so there's like I mean, we're all basically the same age. So it's like it's it's a privilege. Age is a privilege. We're lucky to be as old as we I mean Tell me I'm I'm acting like my mother. I think it's a huge compliment. She was a wonderful, wonderful woman. Yes. That's great. So ⁓ Gary did have a question. So we have a small short lightning round. It's very simple questions. Should I brace for this? It it it there's yes, but might you wanna might want to pull out some of your medals and say a little prayer to them real quick. There's no right or wrong monster. ⁓ you do see you do have one. She's stuck it in there. So these are very and and sometimes you can just say no, we don't do that. So quickly we'll just say red wine, white wine, white wine, champagne, beer, or nothing? White wine. Okay. Movies, comedy, horror, or romance? Romance. Okay. A morning person or a night owl? Morning. 100%. She has to be for rowing. Come on. Cats or dogs? Dogs. Dogs. Sweet snacks or savory snacks? Savory. Okay. Nothing in your inbox or a hundred of unread emails? Nothing in my inbox. Okay. City life or small town? That's a hard one. I'm gonna say mostly city. Okay. Cooking for 100%. Okay. Celebrity gossip or true crime? You could say neither. Yeah, ⁓ I guess true crime. Okay. Pineapple on pizza, yes or no? Fine. Yes. Coke or Pepsi? Coke. Diet Coke. That was it. So you did fine. I did fine. Good. Okay. You did fine. I you know, I want the gold star. I live for the gold star. Yes. Well, can we see the medal now? I have two. I brought ⁓ you said I had to bring I was supposed to wear this one was the first one I wore. I w one and that's the San Diego Crew Classic, which is a huge race on the West Coast that's both collegiate and masters. And I won that in twenty twenty three. It was my first medal and it's one of the more impressive medals in my collection. Wow. I love it. It's actually very back the next year and also won a medal. And these are both, even though they're silver, they're they're first place medal. And on this one, we unexpectedly also got a trophy. And my coach came unglued. She was so excited how we do it. Wow. And then the other one I brought the other one I brought to show you is from one of my favorite races. And this is a gold medal. And I've actually won this gold medal two years in a row for this race. ⁓ this is the Petaluma half marathon, which is 13 miles. It's a 13 mile race, so it takes us two hours of all out rowing or Under two hours, honestly. And I di I got the golds two years in a row in a mixed four. So two men and two women with a coxswain. And then last year, ⁓ when that crew was not available, I rode in a women's four quad and I I I was the stroke in that race and I we got a a bronze, which I'm also inordinately proud of. I'm sorry, two hours of nonstop rowing. Yeah. My gosh. On the ⁓ my gosh. That's amazing. ⁓ my gosh. I don't know. I don't think I could do that even on my rowing machine. Well last year was yeah. Last year I I almost passed out. I mean they they le the the other rowers were younger than me and they they left me on the grass rather than so that I I was the only one that was there when the medal ceremony started. And then I sprung up to collect our our gr our our book. So in the other competition competitions you've been in. Is there a general time frame or distance that you that's that's yes. ⁓ for rowers, competitive rowers or masters rowers anyway, the fall season is predominantly five K races, five kilometers, and then the spring season, which is what we're in now, is one one K. So short races, sprint sprint races. and ⁓ and so we train slightly differently in the fall than we do in the spring. ⁓ and they're longer distance in the fall because of is it a weather thing or or what No, it's just it's just the seasonality of the sport. ⁓ head of the Charles is is just under five K, but that's what people are racing in the fall. Okay. Back up, back up. So wait. Now you now we're going down a real hole again, but I'm gonna dig ourselves back up. ⁓ do they welcome people who are at different levels? I'm assuming you ⁓ absolutely. Yeah. When I started I was a ninety what? Some of us are not as skilled as you are walking. No, I was not at all skilled as a rower. I was ⁓ I was fit, you know, but I got a whole lot fitter. I think I dropped twenty pounds the first last year I was rowing just 'cause you know, it's very different. Okay. Well I I feel very encouraged actually right now. So that's that's good. Gary, anything else? I don't think so. I think we covered a lot and really interesting information. What about the question? Come over here. Meet me over here, Gary. Come over here for a second. What? What about the question about if you ain't got time for that anymore? ⁓ okay. So one of the questions it's okay. It's a safe question. Okay, go back to One of the questions we asked as we get older, sometimes you're like, you know what? I just I'm not gonna put up that anymore. Just because You know, you I'm older, I'm wiser, I have more insurance, you know, that line. So is there anything in life that you just won't put up with anymore? I you don't have time for I don't got I was it I aim ain't nobody got time for that is the actual phrase. I mean somebody described it when I was in my forties, I think someone described it as your fuck you fifties. And and I love that. I mean, those were words to live by because I don't got I don't I mean, I don't cut much time for what other people think of me for one thing. I'm gonna do my th I'm gonna be my true and authentic self. I'm gonna, you know, follow my heart, you know, listen to my intuition and do my thing. And I don't really care what other people think about that. So And when you were younger, was that something that you know I cared very much about what other people think about you carry that And and it's maybe it's ⁓ it's akin to where we started in terms of maturity. It's like I was very interested in being adult and responsible and coloring b you know between the lines. Not no more. My words to live by and I saw saw it on a piece of art I I saw in one of my travels in the fall. You know, fuck normal I want magic. And that's that's where that's where I'm trying to live. Don, I think I just found the title of this episode. Wow. Fuck normal I want magic. Okay. Well maybe you know what? Guess what? We just sound the we just Anna, thank you so much for joining us. It's a What a blast. So much fun to talk to you guys. ⁓ so good to see you too. Great to see you. Congratulations on all your success with ⁓ the rowing and also with life. It seems like you're truly, really enjoying it and getting on with it too, which is really wonderful to see. And traveling and Everything. It's like we are kind of a model citizen for all of us getting older. We want we don't know how much time we have. We need to embrace it and live as big as possible. Okay. Great. Well, thank you very much. Thank you guys so much for having me. It's been a blast. How good. We're so glad. And you guys you look you both look fabulous. Well I think we all do. So come on. I'm hanging upside down like a vampire, so my hair stands up and my blood rushes to the front of my face. So we're all okay. All right. Whatever you have to do, Don. It's working. Exactly. Okay, well take care. Okay. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Just don't be pithy, but be don't be pissy. You can be pissy, but don't be pithy. I can be pith I can be pithy, you can be pissy. No, I'll be pissy, you'll be pithy. Missy. Anyway. Gotta cut that hour out. Yes. Yes. ⁓ we have come to the end of another episode. We want to thank our friend, longtime friend Anna. We'll just leave it at Anna. Yes. ⁓ you know, and it gives me hope that maybe I should take up rowing. I don't know. Maybe you should give it a whack. Do there is a rowing machine at your gym? ⁓ there is. ⁓ I've been on a couple times, but I tend to do more of the elliptical and some of the other things. But ⁓ I need to expand my horizons. Yes. I just last night I was kind of thinking I should do more of this and some of that and try this. So I'm gonna maybe ⁓ I it may not be rowing, that's you know, competitive rowing. That's probably a little bit above my competitive. I mean it just k I didn't know I liked it until I tried it. And for me it just seemed to it just vibe with me because I'm not a runner. I I just don't like running. Weren't you a runner before? No. No. Mm-mm. But you running away from things. I'm very intrigued after speaking with Anna because she makes it sound like such a great experience and something she truly is passionate about. I wouldn't mind giving it a whack, you know. I'm almost sixty four. I might have to try new things. Don't worry, we'll edit that out. I never said it. Did you hear that, people? No. No one's gonna hear it. No, no one's gonna hear it. ⁓ no, but you made a good point about her in that she's doing an activity that is one, active, right? So staying healthy. Yeah. But two, being social. 'Cause that's something that we've talked about that as I've gotten older, a lot of my friends have drifted away for one reason or another. Moved away because of work or because of family or just kind of life. Yeah. And so I don't have the same group of friends that I used to have. I have friends, yes. But the group that you and I all how all had together when you lived here, that group doesn't exist anymore. Same for me though. I mean, and it's just like both of us. It's like we have to expand our and step out of a comfort zone maybe a little bit. Right. I think there's nothing wrong with that. And you know, if this is a a ⁓ a way to do it, great. You know, we all we'll have to find our own ways to do that. But yeah. So those are the conversations we'll continue to have. ⁓ we have more guests coming. and then we'll do some non to guest episodes and talk about different things. ⁓ so you can ⁓ join us on YouTube to watch us. You can listen to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. ⁓ our main host is on Podpage, which has a website where you can catch all the platforms. ⁓ of course Facebook, Instagram. You can email us, Don and Gary Doinsixty at Gmail dot com. I think I got ⁓ all. Yeah, you did. Did really well. You remembered them all too, which is good. I did well at the beginning 'cause I Rusty Barnacle. I would like you to call me Rusty Barnacle going forward. Welcome to Rusty and Gary doing 60. Anyway, so I think that wraps it up for this episode. That is, and I'd just like to say, thanks for tuning in. Stay young at heart and keep your reading glasses nearby. And stay new to your pets. ⁓ okay. What were you gonna say? I'm sorry. No, no, I didn't I didn't think about the p I what if I don't have a pet? Alrighty, well then until next time. I'm Rusty McBarnacle. And I'm Gary. Okay, let's do let's sign off. We're done. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye.