#48 Christine Dickson: On the Path of Transformation

Intro: 0:02

Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.

Lynn: 0:19

Welcome to the creative spirits unleashed Podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes your host. Today's podcast episode is a bonus in several ways. Have you ever noticed how one thing leads to another than leads to another leads to another and so on. This episode is part of my dancing the tightrope podcast series by one thing leading to another. It started when I fell off a horse, which was the storyline of the book. And in that time period found auric Schiller, who teaches people about horses on Facebook, except he's really all about personal transformation. He was the guest on this podcast in May of 2020. It's very much worth a listen, if you want to go back and hear that. And then in September of 2021, I was a guest on his podcast. His podcast is called a journey on podcast. And, as he will say, this is not about courses. It's about personal transformation. So in that episode, I told a story about a pivotal moment in daughter Jen's addiction journey. Now fast forward to the summer of 2022. I get a message on Instagram from a woman in Los Angeles, who I did not know, who had listened to that podcast and sent me a note to say how moved she was by that story. And we had a back and forth about a variety of things after that message came in. Then in early 20, November 2022, I went to work Schiller's journey on podcast summit in San Antonio, where he gathered many of the people who had been on his podcast, as you know, guest presenters to share their wisdom in person. One of those podcast guests, who was not a scheduled presenter was Christine Dixon. Now, here's where it gets interesting. I had listened to works podcast with Christine in August of 2022. And I really connected with her approach with her wisdom with her wit. And so I was thrilled to see that she was also going to be at the summit. I was looking forward to meeting her. Well, at the first break, she came up to me and to introduce yourself. Now here's where it gets interesting. Guess what? This was the Christine from Los Angeles, who had reached out to me on Instagram this summer, before she had been on more X podcast, we connected as much in person as we did by Instagram. And so the next step in this one thing leads to another journey was just a no brainer. I had to have her on my podcast, we started this conversation with the topic of transformation, which will make a lot of sense when you listen to it. She has a story about her own transformation, which completely inspired me. And it also reminded me, we are just one choice away from the inner freedom we crave. And sometimes we don't even know we crave that freedom. But this conversation, uncovered a lot of things about what happens and what she calls the subtext. So this is a conversation I know I'm going to want to listen to more than once. I suspect you will, too. And let me just tell you a little bit about who is Christine Dixon. She is a transformational mentor, clinical hoppet hypnotherapist and Equine Assisted coach. She works with people to map out their vision and reframe their limiting belief systems to create radical shifts in their lives. She has a solid background and working with people moving away from addiction and codependence and supporting their quest to align with their life purpose. Her ideal client is a fellow traveler, who has come to a crossroads and dares to pursue a more purposeful life. A self described late bloomer, she traveled a slow but steady path to rewrite her subconscious conditioning, and take responsibility for her own life. By becoming more self aware and intentional, she was able to propel herself into taking meaningful action that changed the course of her life. Now she helps others do the same. What does your heart long to bring forth into the world? When that small interval inner voice whispers to you? What you know to be true? Do you listen? So that's what she has to say about herself. You will hear all of that and more in this conversation. And by the way, while she wasn't a scheduled presenter at the podcast Summit, on the Saturday of the three day Summit, Robin Schiller asked her to close out the summit on Sunday afternoon that the very next day, Christine tells the story in this podcast of how she decided to say yes, and that story is for anyone who is ever expected faced a moment of self doubt, and wanted to find a more empowering way to approach challenges. I would love to hear what you love about this conversation. And all you have to do is go to the podcast page on my website at Lynn karns.com. There's a click this to send a voicemail button on the right hand side of the page. It's super easy to do. I love hearing from folks, especially through voicemail, it's so fun to hear about it that way. And of course, if you liked this episode, share it with your friends, your colleagues. And I hope you enjoy this episode with Christine Dixon. Christine Dixon, welcome to the podcast.

Christine: 5:42

Thank you, Lynn, I am very, very excited to be here.

Lynn: 5:45

I am really excited that we're getting to have this conversation. And you know, the thing is, I rarely get to talk to other coaches. And the more interesting thing is not all a lot of the coaches in my world would not put the word transformation in the kind of coach coaching that they do, partially because like in my world and working with executives, often fortune 500 People who are very left brain very investment banking type people or whatever, you know, you use words that say transformation. And they're immediately like, you know, they're going up, you're going Woo, or whatever. And yet, really what they're seeking is transformation, you actually call yourself a transformational mentor. So it's right there in your title, if you will. But But here's my question. How do you define transformation, especially in a coaching context?

Christine: 6:49

Well, I would start this off by quoting Ben Franklin, which is, which I believe it was him that said, comparison is the death of all joy. So transformation is going to be specific to each and every person have what that means for them, and not in comparison to what other people are doing, but in what is evolving and trying to have them rise to their greatest level in that moment. And having those personal wins in that way.

Lynn: 7:37

So I'm still stuck on comparison is the death of all joy. Wow, I really liked that quote. I've heard it before. But not in this context. So yeah, my brain is going like, whoa, tell me more.

Christine: 7:57

So it was kind of like, remember when you were young? Oh, good.

Lynn: 8:00

No, go ahead. I

Christine: 8:00

want to hear I was just gonna say remember when you were young, and like maybe you got your first car and it was a beater. But you were so excited that you had a car and you thought it was the best car in the world. And then you know, some your other friend group, someone got a brand new car and you went from thinking your car was so amazing, because now you have to walk everywhere or take the bus to being like, kind of ashamed of your car because now you're comparing it to the so so but that car was the world to you. It changes.

Lynn: 8:33

It was a 1969 Pontiac station wagon. Thank you very much. Oh, there's my mother's hand me down. And yeah, and then, actually, in high school, were having a station wagon was not cool until the guys were like, well, you know, you can lie down in the back of a station. Cool. Yeah,

Christine: 8:52

I got a 1973 Monte Carlo that was canary yellow with white vinyl interior and the Landau roof so

Lynn: 9:04

yeah, and see my comparison back then was I wanted speed. And so I actually my car as her car had a big engine in it. So I would drag race with the guys down the main street. Nice. And that was the way though speaking of comparison, that it'd be like I've tried to find a way to be better than other people. And that's really where I went when you said comparison is the depth of all joy is that race that we find ourselves in? comparing ourselves to each other? Because it kind of takes us

Christine: 9:41

out of our own experience and into the worst place that we can be which is in other people's heads trying to see us through their eyes. Yes, see if we measure up or not.

Lynn: 9:54

And you know where that starts honestly I think is in the home, especially if you have siblings. because, you know, I often say all I'm really doing when I'm coaching people is teaching them not to have sibling rivalry in the corporate workplace. It comes out looking different, but it's like, how do I get to beat the boss's favorite? Or how do I, you know, how do I find a way to measure up better than all these other people around me, which means there's no teamwork.

Christine: 10:22

I think it also, it also can add in. You know, I was also a kind of a only child, my, the dynamic of my family is very complicated, but if you are not seeing, right, if you're, you know, the whole old adage of, you know, children should be seen and not heard. You know, if you grew up in a family that had that, then, you know, I used to call it doing my monkey dance, you know, what can I do? To get attention, you know, to make people laugh, or

Lynn: 11:00

so, there can be that aspect of it as well, right? Like, if I don't have the attention on me, if I'm not getting positive, constant positive feedback and reinforcement, then I'm, I'm adrift. I don't know if I'm okay. We really don't. And when I was teaching, the self awareness class, I taught for 10 years down in Florida, one of the women I taught with was a licensed clinical psychologist. So I'm not a licensed psychologist, so I didn't have a lot of the research and science that she had around self awareness. But she one day, pulled up her computer and showed our class that we were co teaching this class, something called a still face experiment. Have you seen this? Because there were the baby, the mom, yeah, it's a baby. So I'll describe it for the for the listeners, so they'll understand. But the assignment for the mom, which I would have a hard time being the mom doing this, because it's so devastating to the child is, you know, as we all do, when you're face to face with a baby, it's cuckoo Gaga happy face. And you can just see sort of the love going back and forth and the child interacting with mom and getting that feedback. And then the mom's assignment is to make her face very still, and give nothing. And you watch the baby literally melt down, her presence is still there, her face is still on the baby. And the baby's not getting any kind of feedback back and the baby goes from uncomfortable and kind of moving around in its chair to full on like screaming, crying. And that to me, just in one short video describes what our core human needs of being seen are.

Christine: 12:55

Right, because the baby you watch the baby go through a series of bids for connection, laugh with mom or trying to coup or try. And there's no response. And the one of the things that they were trying to show to was that was the CO regulation that the baby uses the mother or father's nervous system and facial expressions and all of that, to tell itself how the field that if it's okay, and that when it doesn't get that what you would watch us after it started to cry and scream and try to get that way, it would become very silent and very shut down. Because now it has to go inward where it doesn't have the skills to be able to do and try and sue that self. And yeah, it's very, very interesting and a very hard thing to watch

Lynn: 13:54

it it's really hard when you connect it to having had that happen to you unintentionally or intentionally, but usually intentionally because that that say more about bids for connection because I really love that language about how we try to interact with each other and I don't think very often we even realize we're doing a bid for connection. But we know it doesn't feel good when we don't get the outcome we want. Yes. So what do you what is described bids for connection so people can kind of get on the same page with us.

Christine: 14:30

You know, it's funny, my daughter and I like you my daughter is in the same career choice as me. So you know, we talk about a lot of things together. And we were talking about the idea of gossip and and how excited and connected you can feel when you are talking about someone that also talking about, you know, whether it's someone you know, or someone in, you know, public spotlight, and how energized everybody is. And then you walk away and you feel like crap. Yeah, but you just, yeah, you have this like hangover from it. And I really think that gossip is a negative big for connection. Because, because if you start talking about things that are positive, you don't get as much interaction with people. But if you go negative, everybody will come in with their opinion or their stuff. And it doesn't even have to be that it doesn't have to be that bad. You know, like, you want to be like, talking really badly about something. But if it's, if it's got that negative vibe, people learn to connect through that, even though we don't like it. So

Lynn: 16:03

what is that? Why are we so conditioned to do that?

Christine: 16:07

I you know, if I had the answer to that, but I have ideas. I don't know, if I have the answer. I have ideas. I just think it's low hanging fruit. You know, I just think it's, it's easy. It's a way of defining your identity of what you are not, maybe it's not as it's, you know, you're not able to be able to define who you are. But you are able to define who you are not by talking about someone that was something that did something that you're against, or that you don't like, right, or that you don't agree with, and then getting other people to do the same. Now we're all defining who we're not, and we're feeling good about ourselves, because we're not that.

Lynn: 16:56

Well, there's that is definitely one of those pieces, because I think we all sort of at our very core, are trying to figure out, are we okay, are we good enough? Yes. And that back to that comparison is the death of joy? It's not that much of a stretch to say, Well, I've just got to find something I'm better than than you. I think it's the core of a lot of things like racism, you know, is how can I find I don't feel that great about myself. But I don't even say that out loud to myself. I just need to find a way I'm better than somebody else.

Christine: 17:36

Exactly. And it's it because the identity, the identity, the ego is always trying to create itself. It's always trying to define itself by everything, you know, from nationality, to gender, to socio economic background, to where did you go to school to what is your political leanings to what is your church to what is everything is building an identity? Yeah, and then the problem is, is that we don't always like the identity rebuild. But unless you start to become aware of it. Because some of it gets built for us, we get boring into it.

Lynn: 18:20

So I think a lot of it gets built for us. And I think social media is very much fueling that. I think, those data scientists, that very much to understand human psychology have figured out how to hit those ego buttons in a way that shape us. Without us even being aware we're being shaped.

Christine: 18:41

Yes. Yeah. It's it's almost like it's like internet tribalism, you know, and the saddest part about that, I believe, and is just this idea that everyone is now moving so quickly to align with who they want to, I align with this or I don't align with that, that no one is willing to ask more questions, or to have conversations with people they may not necessarily agree with. So that we can, you know, kind of help shape a conversation that can lead because, you know, I know I might be diverging on some but like the idea of being well because when we talk about horses and stuff, right, we talk about pressure and we talk about how you know you can make a horse do something right with using a lot of pressure and and you know, almost violence in a way like you can make him do something but you didn't change his mind about you. You didn't create a a space where you can collaborate together and have respect for each other. And I think that in some ways There's, there's such a great movement happening in the world for, you know, groups of people who have been marginalized in the past. But one of the cautions I see, that maybe is starting to come out now is, is the idea that if you do it with the same heavy hand that it was done in the first place, you can force people to change their language, and you can force people by laws to hire certain people or to do certain things, but you're actually feeding the thing that you don't want to see. Because you are creating. You're not changing hearts and minds, because you're, you're unwilling to have difficult conversations. And you're so people can be so quick to point to people and give them labels of you know, what you're, you know, you're a man, so you don't understand, or you're this or, you know, and that just shuts you're shutting people down, and you're shaming them too, in a way, you know, we,

Lynn: 21:13

we absolutely do that in the cool culture. It's like there's just as much shaming from the open people that are tolerant as there are, for those who seem close minded. It's like, it's the same. It's that energy, which, you know, in my training, you're reading my book, dancing the tightrope, and in this podcast, I've talked several times to Bruce Anderson, it's what he calls tyrant mindset. You're using the same tyrant mindset, which is that ego shaped, altered mind of society as opposed to our natural mind, which is the way we really are inside. Right, right. And that's what I woke up this morning, the words that were rattling around in my head was natural mind, meaning, meaning, I know how to live and dance in nature through based on natural consequences, as opposed to altered mind, which means people are changing my mind in ways that serve them.

Christine: 22:13

Right? And we are all evolving. Like, yeah, there has to be, I feel like, we need to soften and start to create space, and allow people to change. And that means because we're very quick to point out other people's mistakes. But it's easy to do from the other side of the keyboard or from you know, but we've all got skeletons in our closet, we all make mistakes. And if they were of our mistakes were put out for the masses to judge, we would be in the same box, right? So can we change the you know, can we move the direction that ship is traveling in, but do it in a way that creates space that allows people for their own evolution? Yes, that's so

Lynn: 23:08

important. When we've made changing your mind a problem for some people, right? Like we hold politicians to account base, you said this five years ago, 20 years ago, or 20 years ago, and now you're saying this, UK? What you know, you must be lying. No, I changed my mind. Right. And if we actually want change, we have to make space for people to be wrong before and NS and evolve and not necessarily even be right today. Because I don't think right and wrong is the right measure, I think Right? Right. I think right and wrong. You know, I wrote. Edward de Bono wrote a book years ago, he wrote two of them, one, one is called I'm right, and you're wrong. And I love that book. And the other one was water logic. And they're both based on this same principle, which is sort of what is this going to lead to IE? What's the natural flow? Like water flows over rocks, as opposed to what he called Rock logic, which is something's right or wrong, right? But it has no room for growth or evolution if it's right or wrong. I was just like, Well, go ahead.

Christine: 24:20

I was just I was just talking to someone I can't catch. I can't remember who it was. And we were talking about just the changes for women, since I was a kid, because when I was a kid, when we would play, right, we would play and there were three things that we would play, right? Flight attendant, secretary and nurse because in the 70s, growing up in the 70s when you were growing up, you know, as a young girl, that was all that you really saw yourself portray that out in the world like those were the jobs for you, and people, it was normal to have your dog chained to a dog house in the backyard or with a dog house in the backyard. These are the normal dream about doing it. Like that's horrifying, right? That you would just leave your dog out there. And but we've evolved since then. But if you, you know, turn that lens back to the 70s and take our evolved mind, and then look back on it and then start looking for, you know, people to point out and judge. You can't know what the climate was like with everything. But what was normalized back then people, we have to be able to evolve. And I think that going forward, I think the pendulum has swung really far in a direction that's starting to get off the rails. But I believe that the pendulum will swing back to a way where that we can start to have these this space and conversations, you will never get rid of hate and bigotry, and it's never going away. Right. But we can I think that with intention and with humility and being open to listen. But also, I am all about empowerment. I I cannot feed the idea of the disempowered in the sense of not. It's not that I can acknowledge that that exists. Of course I can. I mean, yeah, it's it's very obvious. But what I'm interested in is, then how do we empower people? Right? How do we empower them? Because I will say that I have a lot of things that I can talk about that and a lot of mistakes that I made a lot of things I wish, but I learned from them. And that is I feel like that's the whole point to life is learning growing and evolving.

Lynn: 27:13

That is that is it. It's that learning pace. And I I really love Carol Dweck 's work, she talked about the fixed mindset versus the growth mindset. Oh, wow. Okay. And I I've my shorthand for it's proving mindset versus the improving mindset. And, you know, I grew up in a culture, probably both in school, but for sure, in the banking world I was in the proving mindset was sort of the way you got to head I'm going to prove myself, it doesn't mean I'm able to learn anything, I've just got to show you what I know. As opposed to asking questions, and growing in my knowledge, and so forth. And I do think the whole point now is learning and growing. But I remember, you know, I think I've very much started with a fixed mindset for a good part of my career, I was too busy trying to prove myself to improve myself at all, you know, to learn and grow. And I can't necessarily know exactly, you know, it was it was not ever one event, it was a series of events that helped me change. So for you, what were the kinds of events that happened that helped you sort of really recognize you're here to learn and grow? Okay, Lynn, I just opened up the door.

Christine: 28:38

I'm okay, this this question always. My brain always goes, Okay, it goes back to a certain point, and then it goes, Yeah, but you got to go back before that to that point. Oh, wait before that. So,

Lynn: 28:51

because there's always what happened that happened before what happened?

Christine: 28:56

So, you know, although, but Well, I was born in Cleveland. But, um, hmm. Okay. So I guess for the sake of clarity. I think that I grew up in a very disjointed family in the sense that, you know, my, my mom struggled with a lot of mental health and addiction issues. And so, when I was born, I was the oldest I was born. And two years later, my grandmother took me from my mother legally, for neglect. And I grew up with my grandmother. And just to let you know how the family was then my mother had another child, which is my sister, Maggie, who was then adopted by my aunt. So and then my mother had three more children, and that she raised so there was a lot of disjointedness and there was also a You know, when you talked about siblings? Well, I had, you know, it created a lot of weird in that dynamics in my family because because I was being raised by my grandmother, you know, her other grandchildren looked at me like I was getting more of ground mom, then, you know, and there was weird dynamic power grabs, and there was, which I was unaware of intellectually as a kid, but sometimes, you know, got caught up feeling them. And I was, I would say that I did have, how do you describe this, it's never really talked about this aspect very much. But from the time I was little, like, I remember being, I was only like two years old and how I remember this, two or three, like, I don't know. But I remember my mother coming with her new boyfriend, and wanting to take me back for my grandmother. And I remember was a big fight. And I remember sitting there, and just, you know, I was just watching this whole thing, but feeling it all as well. And I remember my grandmother saying, well, let's let Chrissy decide. And they all looked at me. And in that moment, I remember I could feel all of their I felt everything they were feeling, right. Like, I felt as young as I was, I felt here's my grandmother, who has done so much for me, and who is my rock, and, and, but then there's my mother, who my little self, like, dreamed of living with my mom, and you know, it being good. And I remember just getting up and running out of the house, and my cousins lived next door and running into their house, and I hid in the basement, because I could not make that choice and hurt anyone, and I couldn't choose for myself, because I was so feeling their feelings.

Lynn: 32:08

Right? And at that age, how would you have been equipped to make that decision?

Christine: 32:13

And I felt that connection to animals and people and I didn't you know, I think everyone has that ability. I think that it depends on how what environment you're raised in of whether that gets cultivated or not. I was an in essence an only child and spent a lot of time alone and playing with bugs and playing with like animals and in nature. So but I bring that up because I eventually you know, you start to get a thicker skin as you get around people more and especially when you go into your teen years and but that yearning to have my mother be my mother never left and through a series of events. I ended up living with my mother when I was 15. And I you know to give you context, I went from going to a private school in North Jersey, where my aunt was the nurse and I got a scholarship and going to this private school with all of these people who were you know, it was no doubt they were all going to college and they all played field hockey and they got you know, beautiful cars for their you no graduation presidents and they summered in the Hamptons and Nantucket and it was a wonderful experience and wonderful teachers and then I went to living with my mother in a basement apartment on welfare. And going to a public school where I knew no one and with my little sister, and my mother was pregnant with another child and and a lot of family turmoil had happened. And I had been really like ostracized. It was really, really difficult. So I bring this up because I was I was a prime candidate for falling into a real negative situation. And my mother decided that I would be her drinking buddy. So she would well she would take me to bars. And she took me to she was a very big fan of motorcycle gangs. So she would take me to motorcycle gang bars in Philly, and jersey. And And I ended up meeting who would end up being my kid's father? Who was you know, I was 16. And he was 34. Wow. But I never had a father. And he was crazy smart. You know, I just call him an evil genius. And this is such a long story. So I'm really going to try and streamline it too, because I want to be able to answer your question, which was about my own evolution. Yeah. With him, I would spend weekends with him. And I would go to school during the week, and then I leave with him and spend weekends with him. And he would take these trips, you know, I would just go with him in the car, these road trips, and then you know, I would never go into the houses that he would visit or anything or I waited the hotel and, and one of the trips, heading back. When he had me driving, and I didn't have a driver's license, we got pulled over long story short, there was five pounds of methamphetamine in the trunk. Oh, boy. And I didn't know that I was 17 at the time. And what ended up happening is the search and seizure was an illegal search and seizure. So but I was a juvenile. And so I did get out on my own recognizance. And the idea of you know that I would continue going to court, but the laws the work for adults are not applicable to juveniles there, you don't have the rights you don't have the laws don't apply to you. In fact, the first judge, I went in front of tried to throw my case out because he was like, there is no way this girl She's, she's like, you're lucky to be alive.

Lynn: 37:04

Yeah, but

Christine: 37:06

the prosecution saw me as leverage against my partner, or I guess you'd say. So that didn't happen. So anyway, what ended up happening is they were going to have a hearing to, to have me certified as adult, and then try me as an adult. And so I went on the run with my kids father, his name was Rick. So Rick and I went on the run, where I lived under aliases and everything for four and a half years while he would continue to go back to Philly and go to all of his court dates. So he would go back and go, there was court dates, and it took four and a half years. And he ended up winning his case because of the alleged illegal search and seizure. So finally, I could go home now I both of my kids were born. I never had any hair. There was no baby showers. There was I couldn't call home, I couldn't have friends. So from the time I was 18, until I was 23. I really had no life. And I was really excited to go back. Well, what I didn't know was that five rounds of math is an amount that is also a federal crime. So the Feds had created a what they call a sealed indictment. So they even though he had won a state case, now, the Feds were charging with the same exact thing. And so they use that indictment to investigate us. And so we were living in upstate Pennsylvania, and I had a house there and I had started seeing my family everything like we're all good, you know, I'm back and gosh, I guess I don't know how long maybe maybe we were there for a year, maybe not quite a year. My son was 15 months old. My daughter was, I guess, four at the time, and I got a knock on the door. And there was a state trooper standing there and he said, We have reports of you dumping trash down the road, would you step outside of the house? That was like, what? And he's like, step outside of that like okay, I step outside and agents came out from the woods from behind the barn from behind the house. And I had the DEA, the ATF, the FBI, the state Police major crimes. The Pennsylvania State Attorney General himself, my family found out on the 11 O'Clock News,

Lynn: 40:13

oh, my gosh, and arrested.

Christine: 40:17

And this, I tell you was the worst thing and the best thing that ever happened to me in my life. And the reason that that is, is that I very much felt invisible in my life, and I felt like a kid in a grown up world. And because my kid's father was very much like a father to me, and I would have followed him to the ends of the earth. And I could not, I didn't make choices for myself, I just followed, right, I just followed, I latched my Caboose onto that train. And that's where I was going. And I trusted, that he would keep me safe. And all of that came crashing down. And I spent 15 months in jail. Wow, going and I got moved 12 times in 15 months. And what that means to most of your listeners who've probably never been to jail, is that the I was under the marshals jurisdiction, the federal marshals, and they use county jails to hold people while they await trial. So why it's a way to break you down to move you so much is because when you get moved, if you need to see your kids, if you know you only get like a little, little comb, you don't have any, right, the food's terrible. I started smoking when I went there, you know. So when I got arrested, I started smoking and so you don't have anything. So it takes time back then, you know, you had to wait to get your phone call you had to call home, they had to then get the address of where you were and send you a money order. So that could get on your books so that then they would have this thing called commissary where you could buy your personal care items. You could buy a cup of noodles, and little little Debbie's cakes that you would live, you know. And so every time you got moved, no one knew where you were your family didn't know they didn't transfer your money. So it was it was very difficult. But I remember being I was in Weihai county jail. And I was in a cell with a heroin addict prostitute. You name Lorie, who is probably one of the wisest human beings I have ever met. And who was like one of my guardian angels. And so imagine this, here's me, you know, mostly lived a sheltered very sheltered life until quite recently. And I remember her saying to me one day, you know, I think maybe you should go to the group therapy that they're having here. And what I can only imagine what she saw, but I did I went to the group therapy and therapy, and let me tell you, those women handed me my ass. No doubt, because what

Lynn: 43:52

did that look like? What did that look like for me tell you,

Christine: 43:57

because I'm sitting there. thinking of myself as, in a way feeling sorry for myself, because I was just a kid, you know, I met this guy when I was 16. And look what happened. And, and, you know, you know, it was crying every day about my children. And because they didn't understand why I wasn't coming to pick them up. You know, they were when they were, they were safe and everything but and so. And they did not care one bit, that I was 16 that they their whole thing was you did this.

Lynn: 44:38

They made you take responsibility. You did this.

Christine: 44:44

And it was like everything shifted in Maine, because I went from being a spectator in my life to being in the driver's seat. And so Now I don't have to worry about something like this happening, because I won't let it happen to me again. It's that was a pivotal moment and the witch witch, I remember having a call with my grandmother. And I remember saying to her, you know, I know this was a horrible thing that's happening right now. But I'm so grateful for the way that this has opened my eyes and made me accountable in my life. Because I can totally see how this could go on. For a very, this could have been my my program I ran for my entire life. Yeah. They all program

Lynn: 45:52

meaning the spectator, this is happening to me. I'm the victim. Yeah. As opposed to I take responsibility for my life. I'm in the driver's seat. I can choose a different path. Yes. Yes. So the idea of being on the path is probably why you called your business on the path. Yes,

Christine: 46:15

I had. You know, when I finally put this all behind me when, you know, I had to actually plead guilty to everything else. So I have like 20, something felonies. So I had to plead guilty to everything to get out. But I was like, I would do anything, you know. And that didn't matter to me in that moment. And what did end up happening is, I remember when I finally had a moment to breathe, you talk about fight flight, you know, I rent Gosh, Amber, the moment that I actually took my awareness became into the moment. And I we had, I had moved my kids night into a row house in southwest Philadelphia. And I remember laying in bed and thinking, you know, the of those moments where, for whatever reason, there's these moments in your life that are just etched in your brain. And I remember laying there thinking, You know what, I have two choices right now. I can be angry about everything that happened to me. Because I mean, I think it means everything, but there was a lot, right from a lot of different sources that I was

Lynn: 47:36

I can pay, I mean, I'm thinking there's a movie here. There was a lot, there

Christine: 47:42

was a lot. And I can be angry, or I can live. But I can't do both. I can't do both. So either I'm going to grab this second chance at life by both hands, and just let go of everything. It doesn't matter, or because the idea is if I try to carry that with me. I'm never leaving that prison.

Lynn: 48:15

No, the prison would go with you everywhere you went. Exactly. Has nothing to do with the four walls and the shitty food. No, it's what you carry inside of you.

Christine: 48:25

Exactly. And that was another turning point moment. And not long after that, you know, I had been working there was there's a company, a huge property management company. And one of my first real jobs was as a leasing consultant. And I worked at one of these companies and a smaller company, that My dear friend, Donna Keegan, she was, you know, one of the executives at this country company. So she would actually come to the company I was working for and pilfer their people over to her company, and use them as managers and stuff because we were very corporate, we got a lot of training and, and so we both describe, I didn't even know she saw it this way until later. But we both both describe the moment of when she walked in. It was like beams of light were streaming in behind her and she walked and it was the two of us. It was like recognizing someone that though you've never really met you've known forever and she became one of my biggest mentors.

Lynn: 49:37

Isn't that a cool feeling? Oh, I love this.

Christine: 49:41

She became she was such a pivotal like I would not be here without her. She was pivotal. She took me under her wing. And I named my company on the path because of a conversation she and I had When I was in my 20s, and you know, she looked at me, and she was like, you know, here's the thing. In this life, you're either on the path, or you're not. And I choose to surround myself with people who are on the path. And the way it was described to me was, it didn't matter where you were on the path, it wasn't about, I only surround myself with, you know, winners, it wasn't about that. I will surround myself with people who have curiosity about who they are, why they are that and what they want to create, who they want to become. And how that becoming will affect not just them. But their family history, you know, their ancestral trauma, can they be the one that breaks it? Can they be, you know, how will what they do inspire other people? Or how will even the ripple effects of their journey? You never know how that ripples out from you? Yeah.

Lynn: 51:17

So that's what you meant by on a path, that curiosity piece that seeking not about how far ahead how far behind or even, you know, when we're on the path, sometimes we get off the path, but if we're seeking, we're still on our path, even if it's not the picture we had for the path.

Christine: 51:36

And the idea that we are all the same. I don't care where you are. We're all the same. Sorry about the beeping. I don't know how to stop that from happening.

Lynn: 51:49

Yeah, it's not coming through too loud. So it won't be the first time that a podcast has had a noise in the back.

Christine: 51:58

The The reason I say that is because you know, one of the gifts I had to was I, as a hypnotherapist as a Clinical Hypnotherapist I got the opportunity to work at one of the leading drug and alcohol rehabilitation centers in Malibu, California.

Unknown: 52:20

And

Christine: 52:23

I worked with people who were heads of companies that are household names, you know, I worked with people who were are in the entertainment business, right. And I worked with people who were born into great wealth. Yeah. And what you find out is that we're all the same.

Lynn: 52:55

Everybody thinks a title or money, or status gives you something. And these are the people I work with as well, not necessarily in a rehab setting, although I can't tell you how many big time names have come to me and told me about something that was going on with one of their kids or something. And I always send them to my daughter, which we'll get to, because that's how we actually initially made contact with this story about my daughter. But yeah, and people don't realize, like I have clients who are worth literally billions of dollars. And people think money is going to solve their problems. It only makes it worse.

Christine: 53:32

And you know, what's really, I found kind of sad was that some of these people that came from great wealth, had severe trauma, and severe neglect. And a lot of their peers had very little empathy. Because Poor Little Rich Girl, poor little rich boy, yeah, right? There was. And that comes back to again, like we have to be able to recognize our own humanity, we have to be able to recognize that we're all that we're more similar than we are different.

Lynn: 54:17

Oh my gosh, I'm so Jennifer and I are writing our story about her addiction. And I was just writing about my first time to go to a 12 step meeting. Okay, and so coming and I was, you know, this was almost 20 years ago now. And I was just coming out of my banking world and still sort of in that put together well dressed sort of judgey self that I was and sort of freaked out sort of completely freaked out that I had a daughter that was an addiction. So I'm in my first 12 Step meeting and I'm looking around and I'm seeing a bunch of people that look really down on their luck and having problems and I'm thinking to myself, wow, you know, somehow I thought you No boy, did they screw up right? Without recognizing that my husband and I, who was with me, it's not her father. It's her stepfather. But we're both. We put ourselves more in the workaholic category, right? Which is, as I've heard called, coping privilege, right? So I now can write and see that my workaholism my put together nurse, my driven business, my busyness is coping, just like some cope with alcohol and drugs. So absolutely, it's the same thing. But mine is privileged because it netspeed money and status.

Christine: 55:44

The same, you know, people are addicted to drama. How many people do you know that? Oh, my gosh, a friend who's like, constantly addicted to the next person, they're dating until that fizzles out. And then the drama of that and then, you know, people that are addicted to being sick, or ill people who are in the in what

Lynn: 56:09

Amazon, Amazon, shop shopping, we're having it. You know, it's we're recording this around Thanksgiving and Cyber Monday and all that stuff, right? People get addicted, you know, and of course, gambling and sex. And another one a huge one is food. Food. Yeah. What are we doing to fill that hole?

Christine: 56:33

Yes. You know, the woman who wrote dopamine nation, huh? What a fascinating woman and what fascinating research she's done. But what I found? Absolutely, I mean, hold it. My heart was she talked about addiction. And she talked about AAA. And she said, The truth is that the people who dedicate themselves to the process, that is AAA. She said, These people are the prophets of our time. Because there is no group in this society that is being holding themselves so accountable. On a day to day basis. What are my thoughts? Where are those thoughts coming from? How do those thoughts feed a negative narrative or create my view of the world, and then I'm, and then here I am, I am responding to the negative world that I've created. And I'm creating this whole insular. Yeah, story that I created.

Lynn: 57:52

And it's all through my filters, I've set the whole thing up.

Christine: 57:56

And there's, and you have to be so vulnerable, and you start to share with people like your dark, we don't do that most people are not going to share, you know, the ugly thing, I thought this morning about my neighbor with you, like, you'll judge me and but that's, that's what gets people in AAA excited is that you're sharing that because I have that too. And now, and now because you were brave and shared it, I don't feel alone. And I feel inspired that I don't have to live in that space. But I can actually, by looking at it, I can actually now acknowledge it and shift it.

Lynn: 58:33

Right. And the key is owning it. And then knowing I have the power to shift it just like you did going from being in the drive, you know, taking responsibility rather than just being a spectator for your life. Which to me, that is true in a lot of ways. That's what transformation is.

Christine: 58:50

Well, let me tell you, it was a very slow, painful.

Lynn: 58:55

So was mine, I understand. Because you want it to happen so quickly. And I know. You know, a lot of times this happens with people who just enter into coaching with me. They get very excited about the possibilities. And they they kind of and I know I did this, you'll read this in my book. I kind of wanted that gold star right away. It's like, okay, now I know. So I should get the gold star and be declared self aware, I should be declared done. Which is just the same pattern.

Christine: 59:27

I used to laugh with my clients that you know, I always knew the type a client when I worked in rehab, because they would come in, you know, and they'd be, you know, perfectly dressed and they would have their notebook and their pen, they'd be like, Alright, now just just give me what I need to do. You know,

Lynn: 59:46

give me the steps. I'll do it like, like, it's like it's, I want to make an A Yes.

Christine: 59:51

Like it's five things that you just need to do and then you're done and then you graduate and you're like, that is not how this is going to work and if I Actually, we look back on that, and we laugh at that part of, you know, like, that wanted the right answer so that they can just do it and get back to it. But get back to work. Yeah. Yeah.

Lynn: 1:00:12

Not recognizing that, that. To me, that is the point of life. Like, maybe I maybe I did set out to write a book or to, you know, whatever my goal might be, but when you start recognizing, that's just simply sort of the magnet that's pulling you along, but it's the mass of the daily work. And it's the mass that matters, you know, not the stuff that goes right. Right? Like, you know, when I was in the round pen with Bruce trying to learn to stop the horse and get back on the horse, and he kept saying, I don't want the horse to do the picture. Right? And I'd be looking at him like, you've got to be out of your flippin mind, right? I mean, I'm getting on a horse that doesn't do the picture. I need it to go right. And when I began to understand, and I'm in the middle of this now with a new dog, I've got a puppy. And, you know, it's actually really makes me happy when she doesn't do the picture. Because it's like, okay, now's the moment. How do I respond? How do I help her respond, so that we shape and create yet a stronger, more empowered mind. Because that's what I'm trying to create with my dog, I want an empowered dog that doesn't require force, fear and intimidation, to succeed, I want her to be making good choices.

Christine: 1:01:33

And to that point, I also think that there is a view sometimes that people have that. Life is about avoiding pain. And that is taking the path of least resistance. And I will, I will tell you that my experience has been that the biggest wins, and shifts come out of being extremely uncomfortable being possibly in a painful situation. Without don't, we, you know, I truly believe that we grow and change through pain, whether that's just being uncomfortable, because you're on stage in front of a bunch of people, and it's your first time and you're terrified, that kind of pain, or the pain of having to Jack actually sit down and acknowledge things in your life, that you have been doing every coping skill, you know, to never have to acknowledge. Yeah. And I think about people, you know, I would ask you the question, because of your extensive background in the corporate world is that, what percentage if you were to just guess, what percentage of people are doing what they're doing? Because they're family of origin, and their community that they grew up in? Told them, that was what success look like?

Lynn: 1:03:29

Well, that's a high percentage. You know, in the, in the program, that I, that was the deepest of the programs I've taught, which was a self awareness program, that we went really deep for a week. I mean, this was, for most people, they were like, I had no idea all that stuff was in there. And these were very successful corporate people. And the first, the first thing that struck me as I taught that program, was within the first year, I was able to realize, somewhere north of 50%, probably closer to 75% of the people had some kind of abuse in their history. Either they had a parent or a sibling, but usually a parent that was the drug addict or alcoholic. They had been physically abused. They had been sexually abused. They had had, you know, and it generally was people who were close to them, it was the uncle or the friend or the neighbor or whatever. But well north of 50% talked about that kind of thing happening. And they had not necessarily most of the time, none of them almost had connected the dots that those kinds of early experiences shaped what they've made themselves learn to do. Like if I if I could count how many people said I was the first one in my family to go to college or the or the ones who Were feeling bad because they had reached a level of high position in an organization but felt stuck because they didn't have a college degree. They had earned it. And, you know, what, what we what I often had helped them change their way they looked at it was to see that those were the experiences that got them where they were. Yes, you know, I had one client, who was an immigrant who, who left of, you know, a very terrible country under really bad circumstances. And his greatest fear was having to go back there. You know, that, that he wanted never to have to experience that pain again. And I said, but you've already actually already shown yourself that you can handle that. So you can either treat it as something you never want to do, again, are treated as something that doesn't own you anymore.

Christine: 1:05:58

Right? Because you're bringing in the power of choice.

Lynn: 1:06:02

Yes. And it's mostly just how you choose to see it. Right. And I was just gonna say, I've watched that day I watched literally, it was like a black cloud lifted off of him.

Christine: 1:06:15

I love that. I was just gonna say, you know, I've worked with quite a few people who work as agents, managers, tore promoters. And, let's say the music business. And the one thing that they all have in common is that they grew up in a family that had either addiction or mental health issues. And what it ended up being was that they grew up in chaos that made them try to cope by being the one that became the liaison that became the one that knew how to calm mom or calm down dad

Lynn: 1:07:11

fixer.

Christine: 1:07:12

Yeah. Or the right. They became also probably very codependent as well because of that. But what I tell everybody is all of that stuff. It's not about looking at it as a negative because everything has a positive and a negative pole to it. Right? Yes. And it's all like a sliding scale of where it lands. That growing up like that is what made you so good at what you do now, because now you can deal with creative people, and egos and all of the things other moving parts and the stress, the firefighting aspect of putting out fires. And you can deal with all that because of how you were raised. So it gave you a talent, a skill. But now we have to look at the part of it, the side of it that may not be working for you, so that we can minimize the impact of that side and maximize what you do have. Yeah, well, he

Lynn: 1:08:16

didn't what I think happens. And I've really discovered this about myself in this book, this latest journey of getting back on the horse was when we get those moments where we realize we're in I call it the froth, but you know that feeling of something's off, or something's I'm about to experience pain and feeling pressure, is I'm making some kind of mistake that I need to fix. And the biggest problem with that I am making a mistake thing is we forget the making part and put in place I am. Yeah, so I think I am a mistake. And now I'm just suddenly treading water and flailing about trying to not be a mistake, as opposed to going, Oh, what an interesting problem to solve. These three things are not coming together. That horse is not doing what I thought he was going to do. My dog is not doing what I thought she should do. I just said something to somebody, and all of a sudden, I went from connected to disconnected. I lost them and I don't know why. And instead, I lose them. And I'm like, Oh, I'm the biggest mess. You know, I'm not saying those exact words. But that feeling inside is now I gotta fix me. And it's like, all this stuff comes up. And I've come to think of it. I call it the robot in my book, but I also think of it as an alien almost because it's that old conditioning. And really isn't that all you and I are doing with people is helping them try to melt some of that away. So what happened to you shaped you but it doesn't have to own you.

Christine: 1:09:49

Right. Exactly. Exactly. And the only way that the biggest shift you can and make I think the most important thing you can do is to become curious about why you are the way you are or that you think the way you should even say you are the way they are, why you behave in the way you behave, or why you think the way you do. Because sometimes that's not even something we chose. It was our environment. And our teachers or parents or whatever that gave us those voices in our head. Are those are those committee? Yeah, I know the panel. I call it the path.

Lynn: 1:10:33

Some people call it the board of directors, you know, one woman I had one client call it while these damn people even fret rent free in my head.

Christine: 1:10:41

Well, that's, you know, and that's what the cool thing about, you know, I don't know if you've heard about parts work therapy, or family, internal family systems. It's, it's ifs? Yeah, yeah, it's the idea that even though we have all those voices, if we can start to identify why, where they came from, because the majority of them were created when you were a kid, and they were created to keep you safe. That was their number one goal. Maybe being seen in your family was not safe. So the part of you that had to come out and play had to there was a part of your brain that developed that said, shut up, sit down, be quiet, because that kept you safe. But if you don't ever stop and look at it, and start to parse out what's going on in your head, right? As an adult, that could be a very negative thing. We don't, we don't need that shut up, sit down and be quiet voice anymore. That's actually working against us. But you don't push back against that with more pressure and go I hate that voice.

Lynn: 1:11:51

No, because it will double down on you. Like you have to actually integrate it,

Christine: 1:11:57

what you resist persists.

Lynn: 1:12:00

It's, you know, the two parts in that place are really trying to do the same thing. The part that's trying to like rise up is also it's trying to keep you safe, just like the part that's trying to, like keep you down or feels like it's trying to keep you down. Are you familiar with Connie Ray Andreas, his book core transformation? Have you read this one? I love this book. It's called reaching the core transformation reaching the wellspring within. And she actually described processes that people can do for themselves, to take themselves through this kind of work to see how, because, you know, a lot of times we even just use this language, we say, well, a part of me wants to go for it. And the other part of me is scared. Yes. Well, that's true. Because you actually literally do have two parts of yourself.

Christine: 1:12:46

Right? But But, but most of us just go I'm scared. And that's it. Yeah, right. Yeah, we don't acknowledge the other parts. But if you said instead of saying, I'm scared, say, you said part of me is scared, but part of me is excited. And part of this, then it it just takes a lot of the things out of those thoughts. And you don't make them about who you are. It's just something that you're experiencing, but you're also experiencing other things as well.

Lynn: 1:13:14

And just how we how we frame it is so huge. You know, I remember hearing first about there was a story about the distinction between nervous and excited. And it was a group of researchers were teaching that they were going to use karaoke as the way to put people under pressure. And then see what happens if they just shake their nerves differently. And they had three groups. One group was told, because this is Ambridge karaoke, so very few people unless you happen to have a great voice are gonna go Oh, yeah, I get to sing in front of people. You know, normally, they're going to be pretty excited about or upset about that, or nervous or whatever. So they said, group one, your job, you're nervous. Your job is to make yourself try to feel calm. The second group is you're nervous, just feel the nerves. No other thing. Third group was you're feeling something, it's excitement. So shape it as excitement, everything else was the same. And they had some way to measure how well they hit the notes and all that kind of good stuff. So guess which group did the worst

Christine: 1:14:23

the ones that were told to try to be calm?

Lynn: 1:14:25

That's the by far it was like a 56% of them or something like that? Didn't did well. And of course, guess which group did the best excite excited? Because, like 80 something percent of those folks did well, because they just took the feelings. Whatever those feelings are, it's just a soup of, you know, heart pounding, flushed, you know, voice cracking, whatever. And they changed what it meant. And it changed how they performed. And as a you know, I do turn about waterskiing. I used to determine or skiing I skate the course now, but I remember that just changing that in a tournament changed my outcome to say, Oh, I'm feeling it. I'm excited. Yeah, it changes everything.

Christine: 1:15:15

Are you familiar with Mel Robbins? Yeah. Yes. You're the five second roll. And she, I love that book. And she talked about that in the book was, you know, just the idea of changing the story from I'm anxious to I'm excited. Yeah. When you're going into things into new rounds, and stretching outside your comfort zone shifts everything,

Lynn: 1:15:41

right? Because it puts your body in a problem solving mode, as opposed to a fix it mode. You know, trying to fix nerves. That's the worst thing you can do. And I know it, because I've tried it more than once. Yes. And you know, the worst thing that my husband can say to me is, you're a coach, you should know how to be calm by now. It's like, Oh, my back, honey. But you know, the point being is, like, his assumption, which is pretty common is just because you've worked on yourself means you have the answers, like you're perfect. Now, you're Feki, you've got it fixed. Exactly. And there are, there are still some places where I don't have it all together. And I think our families have the most challenging places for that. But but the I you know, the thing is, he's only voicing what I've said to myself, I should be better than this right now. Right? And that kind of self talk is not useful. We think it is. We do it because we think it's gonna we beat ourselves up because we think it's going to somehow help things. And we would never do that to somebody else. Know, the why do we think it would work with film? I mean, with all this if it wouldn't work with somebody else.

Christine: 1:17:01

You know, this is brings up for me the other day. I know there's something that has come into my orbit, and which I'm exposed in some way to seeing horses not being treated in the best way, let's say. And that really activates the judgment in me. Uh huh. And I, you know, it here is and I always feel like when this happens, you know, that you can go to the gym, I really don't, you know, start to feel down about yourself, like, why are you feeling this way? You're supposed to be better than this. Right?

Lynn: 1:17:59

Right. That all about you're supposed to be better than that. You're supposed to

Christine: 1:18:03

be better than this, you know, your, your current, like, Are you a big fraud, because you know, you're talking to people about this. And then here you are looking at you struggling the inner struggle. And I like to say to myself that you know, I am a work in progress. I am human, I will never lose my humaneness. I will react to my surroundings. You know, the one of the sayings in addiction is that you can't help the first thought that comes to your mind. Like maybe I want to drink or I want to, but you can shape the thoughts that comes next. Yes, that's right. So if I'm out there, and I'm feeling all of this, you know, churning inside of judgment and anger and sadness. And I'm struggling to be kind in the way of the what I'm seeing is happening everywhere. It's, you know, people are slowly evolving, but not everybody's caught on. So, yeah. What do I think I'm actually doing by standing over here? Where and just creating this dervish of negative energy? And do you know what I mean? Like, that's not do you're not doing anything, you're not doing anything. You know? If this is coming up in you, then it's, then it's an opportunity for you to expand your empathy and compassion. And what can you do to help the situation instead of sitting over here judging it?

Lynn: 1:19:49

Well, you know that one of the biggest questions that it would always come up on the first night of the program, and it often comes up with clients when they first work with me which is Okay, I'm curious, I want to know more about myself. But I've also shut myself down for a long time. So I've got a very thick set of armor here that's in, I've made as impenetrable as possible. So how do I find a way in? Where can I find those cracks? To start seeing what's actually really in here. And that's what I have found for myself is those moments when I can't get off my high horse, and judge people or I'm inexplicably angry, or I'm feeling victimized. Those are the moments where I can go, Ah, there we go. There's something in there for me to work on. What is it? Because it's never about the other person? No, it's always, you know, the early on, I had a coach that said, you know, if you want to point the finger, remember three fingers pointing back at you? Yeah, and actually, that was the first coach that taught me about taking personal responsibility and recognizing that I wasn't the victim of my life. You know, and that's where it all starts is to be able, I love that that was one of your early turning points, which is taking responsibility for yourself. So I have to mention, by the way, we've got to let people know how we met because the way we met was yes, it was actually, I guess it started on work Schiller's podcast, because you heard me on his podcast. Yeah. And then you reached out to me on Instagram. And I don't know if I told you this. When we then we saw each other in San Antonio, and we got to talk about San Antonio. Yeah. But I, so you reached out to me and commented on the podcast I did with work, and especially on and we'll just have to have people go listen to the podcast about how I talked about what I had said to my daughter, Jen, when she was in addiction. And it was mainly around creating boundaries. And you and I had the law, I think it is the longest, maybe one of the richest, back and forth on Instagram messenger that I've ever had with somebody. I don't know.

Christine: 1:22:10

You know, really. I was like, this lady is so cool. She's like, she spent so much time talking to me on Messenger. I wonder if she puts this much into everybody that reaches out to her?

Lynn: 1:22:23

Well, it depends on the person, you know, because sometimes it's not a real connection. Sometimes it's, you know, some guy going hey, how you doing today, you know, hoping to dangle work and hope your answer back. But you know, you had a genuine inquiry. And I was like I am I am more than interested in helping. But what was funny is, you were then later on Word works podcast, but I didn't connect the dot that you were the Christine that had reached out to me on Instagram. And until so we were in San Antonio, we have got to talk about this, this event that we just went out within the last month. But you came up and said I was the one on Instagram that reached out to you. And I was like, what I we talked about the Earth shifting a lot there. And that was one of my earth shifting moments where I was like seeing things completely differently. I was like, Oh, now it all makes sense. So so how would you describe what we you know what we were at we we was called the journey on podcast Summit. So Warwick Schiller has a podcast for those of my audience who listened. He's been on this podcast as well. In fact, he was on my podcast like three months maybe before he started his own. And, and he has just taken off a podcast. That's a whole nother thing. It's like a whole different thing than I've ever seen. And he invited 20 odd number of his podcast guests from the last year to come to a summit in San Antonio. That's what we just came back from it was three days. No more is that even though he's known as a horse trader, there were no horses involved. We were in a hotel on the Riverwalk, but how could you describe that experience and a lot of us are trying to figure out how to describe it. So I'd love to hear from you live. How did you How would you describe it?

Christine: 1:24:17

I I laugh at this question, because I I have watched everyone get this question that was at the summit. And everyone gets this half smile. And their eyes kind of glaze over. And they just say the same things have like incredible connection. The energy was off the charts. It is it is something that I think is very challenging to describe something that was so visceral using language because it really was something to be felt and explore. Your interest. And it doesn't really line up in a way of well, this person said this. But I guess the best thing to say is that my expectations, I thought were high going into it, I almost was like, maybe you need to bring your expectations down, because these things never really live up to what you're hoping for. And to say that blew far past any expectation I could have created is the truth. And that everyone, you know, I said this before that, usually at this type of event, you know, you have the presenters who are everyone's very reserved. There is this feeling of like, you're going up to someone that is on high, and you're a little person, you know, one of the littles asking them questions, trying not to take up too much of their time. Moving on, and there was none of that there was no velvet rope, there was no feeling that there was a difference between the speakers and the attendees. It was we were all there experiencing this together. And that the speakers, I love that the speakers brought, what they knew that what they had been doing in their life they had, they also all seem to bring their sense of wonder and like things that they were working on, or they wove in, like, the direction that they want it to go and things then were fascinating to them. And everyone had this real generosity of spirit of wanting to help each other and wanting to support each other that I don't think I've ever been in a room of people that connected and supportive. And people would be like, you want to go to lunch? You want to go to dinner? Where are you going? I'm going here. And there was no, there was no negative feelings even about if you couldn't go with that person. Because you were already going here. It was really cool. Yeah, you know, like, all of that it was and the way it was set up. And that in the jury was we had the breakfast was served in that big room, and then you had the kind of kickback food at night. And even if you didn't eat the food, everyone gravitated there. So the cohesiveness of it never left. It wasn't like everyone went off in different directions whence did the last speaker spoke. So this felt as much as the word community. For you know, relays that sense of community, this is about like a community was being formed. And the cool part is that how big can it get? How, how can people find this in their life? Because once you experience it, you're like, This is the thing that I always wished for. And never thought it would happen. But here we are.

Lynn: 1:28:15

That's exactly how I felt. And I remember scratching my head the first day because bandit, I've spent a lot of my life in corporate events in hotels with funky carpet and sort of, you know, speaker after speaker. You know, when I saw the first setup, it almost called up nightmares for me because I thought oh my god, you know, people droning on and whatever. And, you know, the word that has come up as you were talking is unguarded, people were unguarded. You know, they weren't reserved, they were so like, I've back to the original quote that you said, when we started talking a while back about comparison. robbing us of children at the Val joy is the death of all joy. What I realized is, immediately the speakers were not comparing themselves to each other at all. They were actually really relishing hearing from each other, how they might be taking the same message, but putting their own twist on it. And there was no competition at all among them among other people. And I think that Warwick and Robin did a good job of setting up the conditions for everybody to be for each other. But that's what I experienced. Like you said, there was no velvet rope. The first morning, I saw a guy that had a t shirt that said team quirky, and I talked to him about the team quirky and realize I'm sitting there with Rupert Isaacson who's done this amazing movie and written these books. And we had one of the most profound conversations about all of the stuff that you and I've just been talking about us for how do we get back to our true nature You're at breakfast. And I was like, I can't believe I'm getting to do this. It was, it was incredible.

Christine: 1:30:11

Oh, it's definitely a lots of Let Me pinch myself moments.

Lynn: 1:30:16

Okay, so let me ask you this, you you actually got put on the spot during? So I want to know how much of that was a pinch me moment? Or what other kind of moment because evidently, you and I were there were three podcast guests that were not included in the speakers. I think they're JP Tao, you and I, because of timing and so forth. And you had just been on the podcast? And I guess Robert Walker, both of them asked you to actually close everything out. No pressure found out? Yeah, no pressure while you were there. So what was that like? Um,

Christine: 1:30:59

well, I think that you can imagine, after me telling my story of my early years, that that there's no way that I could be sitting in front of you right now. If I wasn't somehow supported by whatever you want to call the universe, source, God, whatever that means for you. I could, I would not be here. The magic in my life. Started, not back then. But started in probably around 2017 2016, when I was getting a very loud voice in my head, constantly saying to me, you will not get the financial, financial security and sense of purpose in your life that you crave, until you stop being the backup singers, or the wind beneath someone else's wings, in your partnerships that are old or always toxic. It was way easier for me to believe that someone else could make something of their life, then I could even though I had this equal belief that there were things I was supposed to be doing at the same time. And when I finally put that away, and invested in myself, the changes and what was created was so fast that even me sitting here with you is part of that momentum. It's still going. Yeah. And so what I realized is that if I'm willing to show up, do the work and say, yes, the universe will bring me to door after door after door. And I couldn't imagine what doors are coming. But the ones that show up when I'm like I don't know, what's what's next. Here comes the door. And Robin said, Saturday would you close out tomorrow, which was Sunday, and I stood there. And there was two equal thoughts. One is how freaking cool and exciting that this person thinks that I can do this and that, you know, the idea that I can do this. And the one that's, you know, was built in from childhood, which is who do you think you are? When you are seen you are not safe? Right? This is when everyone will figure out that you shouldn't be here. And both of them kind of short circuited my brain. And I remember saying to her, Can I have let have 30 minutes to think about it? And she said sure. And then she said I have somebody else I can ask to and I was I went fear of loss. Your loss. So I think maybe 15 minutes later I was like I'm in because the following thoughts of like, the overwhelming then it was like, Are you stupid? Like, are you crazy? This is an

Lynn: 1:34:38

update commit I actually committed to show up. Yes.

Christine: 1:34:43

You're supposed to say yes. That is your mantra. You say yes. So I was like better run back there before she asked somebody else and say yes, and I did. And and then I then of course the next step thought is What if you fail? What if you let all these people down? What if you ruin this whole thing? You know, you're the one that's going to be tying it all together, you're the last speaker. And I immediately said, Okay, first of all, I have to stop thinking about the weight of this, because that's only going to mess me up, right? This came to me, I did, you know, it was given to me. So there's a reason why it was given to me. There's a cosmic reason it was given to me. Now, I don't know if that reason is, because I'm going to do well just get by, or fail miserably. I don't know why I'm being brought to this door. All I know is I'm going to go through it. And I will, whatever happens, I will take it as a learning opportunity and figure out what I'm supposed to get out of that outcome. And that took the pressure off of my myself.

Lynn: 1:36:07

And I just have to stop and say, that is what it means to not be attached to outcomes. Right, we get so caught up in it has to finish a certain way. But you were like, I can't lose. Right? You just gave all three ways it could go and I can't lose. So I'm gonna say yes, walk through that door.

Christine: 1:36:31

Brilliant. And then I went to my hotel room and started like brainstorming and writing and everyone

Lynn: 1:36:37

ever Yeah, of course. Prepare, prepare, prepare. I'm thinking, what am I going to say? And how do I yeah, how do I close this out? What was it going to take to pull it together? All of that? Yeah.

Christine: 1:36:49

Yes. How do I honor the Schiller's and what they put together? How do I honor all the speakers and the guests and I, you know, I was, I was pretty fast realizing, you know, this isn't really about me, but what is being asked is, for this part of it to go through my filter, because that's the only thing I can do, I can only be myself and bring it through my filter. And the way I see the world. And, and that's basically what I ended up doing. Did I have like, I Was I nervous, I was really nervous. And, you know, I was your my inner critic, you know, afterwards had a lot of notes. You know, I had a lot of notes, because, you know, of the things mostly because I want to be able to clearly give a message. And if I felt like I wasn't as clear and didn't cover it all as much. That's the part that kind of, I guess, I don't know what what, but at least it shows me maybe next time I know what to work on, and how and how this feels and what to do.

Lynn: 1:38:06

Well, what you did was, as I recall, was great. A lot of it's become a blur for me, but I remember sitting there one Damn, look at her go. That's amazing. Really, I found out yesterday, and she's up there. You know, I remember you telling the story about how you came to have one of your horses and you were in the parking lot. Making that phone call to say if I'm not mistaken, you ended up with the fall of a mayor that was in trouble, or I ended up with the mayor, the mayor, the mayor, the mayor. Yeah. So, you know, I have to, like you said something about this idea of walking through the door. And I have to read something that I often give in workshops, and to my clients. It's a short little poem. Okay, because I think you just showed in real life what this is. And a lot of times people see this poem, and they think of it as a theory. And don't realize this is how life works. So bear with me for a minute, but I'm going to read this because this is this is neat, it says, until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation. There is one elementary truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans. That the moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves to all sorts of things occur to help one that would otherwise never have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamt would have come his way. I have learned a deep respect for one of God's couplets. Whatever you can do or dream you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.

Christine: 1:39:59

Do you want to hear something funny? My friend Donna, that I told you about that was my mentor and guardian angel. That poem, she read to me know, back when I was 24.

Lynn: 1:40:20

I'm just getting all kinds of chills

Christine: 1:40:23

when you started reading that I was like, Oh, wow, because I was she has this thing that she does called the artist conference network. And I, she had invited me to that, and I was part of a group. And that's one of the poems they talk about now, who wrote that?

Lynn: 1:40:39

I don't know who wrote that poem. It was given to me by one of my early coaches years ago. Okay. And we called it the commitment problem at that time. Yes. And, and I've just, I've used it ever since. Because I've found it to be true for myself. Okay, that that moment of commitment and watching things move my way. And it's sort of like, it's like, you're sitting on the edge of a river in a way, and all of a sudden, everything you need starts going by you. And you realize, all I have to do is reach out. It's there. Like, everything I need is coming to me if I will just believe it. Yeah. The belief is such a funny thing.

Christine: 1:41:20

Believing is seeing,

Lynn: 1:41:21

believing, and we don't realize how often like we have beliefs about belief. Right? So I know is I was on my journey early on, I was raised in a pretty standard, sort of like Methodist Christian family that had a lot of, you know, a lot of Bible verses attached to my life. And very much, you know, like a cookie cutter, I call it my Leave It to Beaver family, like a cookie cutter way of being. And when I started on this path, I started struggling with things that didn't necessarily line up with. I'm gonna put quotes around this the belief system I had been taught. And I remember being this was when I was working up in Tennessee, I remember leaving a session and heading out to my cabin that had no running water and no heat, no electricity, and thinking, Am I going to go to hell, because I'm thinking differently. Wow. And I had this moment, and it was as clear as anything has ever been in my life. Without hearing actual voices, I had a knowing that said, whatever it is, it is, and your belief is not going to change it. And it gave me such peace, because I was worried that I was believing wrong, and therefore, somehow redefining God. And when I realized God is bigger than any belief I can have, and I'm using God, because I don't have you know, God, Providence universe, we use all those things. Those are just our ways of trying to put words on something that's gotten awards. You can, like you said this earlier about some of the experiences that we have, there are no words for it. But whatever it is, it is and when you wreck when I recognized that it gave me a piece that said, Okay, I think I'll just go with it, then.

Christine: 1:43:30

Exactly. No, I you know, and you remember that moment, and those are the, you know, those are the moments, those voices that tell us the truth, right, and we recognize it. And I think that one of the biggest things that lead people to be disconnected from their own life, is that they silence the voice that's inside that's telling them go this way, do this, try that. For what they think is security in the outer world. But then they lose. They lose trust in their own self.

Lynn: 1:44:19

Because there's also that other voice. Yes. So how do you help your clients find that true voice?

Christine: 1:44:28

Well, first, we have to start listening to it with the idea that it's safe to listen to it. It doesn't mean you have to do anything. Yeah, right. Like, let's see, what is it saying to you? Because denying it is denying your true self. So like when I said before, how many people do you think are working jobs or in careers that Someone else chose for them, it doesn't mean that they need to change careers, if they recognize that what they need to do is to choose the career for themselves instead of it staying the choice of other people. Right? Right, because it shifts the whole thing. Because now you're in the ownership of it's your life, you're not living your life for anyone else. You can

Lynn: 1:45:26

always say, are you running your life? Or is your life running you? And it's just that switch, right? You can still be whatever a doctor or a carpenter? Yeah, copyright or whatever it might be.

Christine: 1:45:39

Or maybe there's a part of you that went into something because of some aspect of that. But you could parlay that over a little bit to the left. And that difference that that would make would make you so much more connected. Or maybe you want to do something completely different. And all of the fear based thinking and the fear of an idea that the world is, is full of lack. Yeah, that you don't see how you could do it. Because like you said, Well, I don't have the degree for that. I don't have the I don't know if these statistics are still right, because this came from a mentor back in the 90s. But he had statistics that said that if you did not go to college, you are four times as likely to become a millionaire than if you did go to college. And not that money is the end all be all. But yeah, it's challenging the belief system. Right? Yeah. He also said most highly successful people that are entrepreneurs declared bankruptcy at least three times before they hit big. What does that tell you about failure, essential to growth. But we hear that, and we understand that from a intellectual side. But if we experience it, we have a complete meltdown, like, Oh, no. And then we

Lynn: 1:47:16

run back into our corporate job, which, you know, in a lot of ways all colleges are doing. And this is pretty controversial in some people's mind, but I don't think so they're just producing factory workers. They're just factory workers on Wall Street, or in banking, or in consumer products or whatever, if you're a factory worker, if you're working in that world, you're a factory worker, I don't care how much intellectual stimulation you get from it. Well, a lot of roles.

Christine: 1:47:43

I do love the entrepreneurial spirit. And not that people can't find great purpose in, in working as a part of something as a lower, let's say, a different piece of a company. But I do love the entrepreneurial spirit. And I love one of my mentors had said, you know, either you are building something for someone else, or you're building something for yourself. And if you're building for something for someone else, this is me. Make sure that that's because that's in line with what you're building for yourself.

Lynn: 1:48:26

Right. And that's the best part is that's to me, that's when we're dancing a tightrope is when we are in balance with this serves my purpose, and it serves a greater purposes. And there are lots of people in the corporate world and I don't want to have this be Miss hurt at all that are in that space. But but a lot, there's a huge lack of awareness as well that you know, that that sometimes you're just on the treadmill, you're just are on the hamster wheel. And that's the people I want to wake up and say, Hey, there's more to this. You don't have to change jobs, but you can change the way you are in this job. Yeah. And the way you

Christine: 1:49:08

and sometimes it's not even about the job. Sometimes the job you're perfectly satisfied, but there's things outside of the job, maybe with you know, doing community theater or starting a charity or, you know, taking kids on field trips, I don't know as much as your imagination could could do. Maybe that's what's missing is

Lynn: 1:49:37

pick up pick up the guitar again, I've had a client do that you know that made you have to go tour.

Christine: 1:49:44

But maybe they you will until you pick it up

Lynn: 1:49:48

exactly as you know, who knows because you're following something that's deeper. So I always like to end the podcast with just asking this question, which is if there was anything thing that you could just have the listeners know that, you know, would be important for people to carry with them either for today or with their life. You know, it could be a mantra, it could be, you know, just something you've learned along the way, what would you want my listeners to remember?

Christine: 1:50:21

I think your Jane pike just recently talks about this too, is that we tend to look at, okay, there's a great, I have two or two quotes. One of them is people laugh at those who dig for gold. Yeah, admire those that have it. That's good. And the idea is, we tend to also look at people who we feel are living the life that we want to live. And we think that they have it all figured out, that they're over there completely 100% themselves, and knowing all this around them is staying forever, and that they've got it all figured out. And it's just not the case, not one of them. So what I would, what I love the quote from Kyle sees where he says, the reason that you don't start, the reason that you don't show up is because you can measure what you could lose. But you can't see what you could gain. And I think as a coach, people, you know, if someone says, you know, it's $10,000 to work with me for a month, right? Say someone says that, the first thing a person does is go, I'm going to lose $10,000. And the fear and the thoughts and am I stupid am I being had, you know, is this going to be about a big bunch of nothing, and I spent 10 grand on it. And but the whole point is that you're investing in yourself. So that I mean, you, if you're just looking at it from a money standpoint, you could make 10 times that in the next year based on what you did in that one month, right? So but we're so focused on what we could lose, but what you don't understand is that whether it's a coach, it's 10,000, or 2000, or whatever, or 50,000, you have just made a declaration to the world that you are playing in the game, and that you are stepping up. And the world greets you. i That has been my experience that when I could see nothing on the horizon and had no clue how anything would happen. I would start from where I was. And sure enough, the road would rise to meet me. And I could have never made that happen. It happened because I started the momentum and the energy of saying that I'm in the game, I'm here, I'm going to take chances, I'm going to actually do work. Like it's not something you can do sitting on the couch, you have to have some skin in the game. Yeah. And then, right, whether it's it doesn't even have to be money, maybe you change jobs. And that's the big stuff. But you have to have skin in the game. And you have to be doing the work and open at the same time.

Lynn: 1:53:56

You know, I'm glad you're saying this right at this very moment, because I'm leaving. On Wednesday, I'm coming out to California to the Equus Film Festival arts and crafts thing and the end of the Mustang discovery, right and so forth. And I just don't like getting on airplanes. So I was like I you know, but when they offered the chance for me to come out and show up, if you will and talk about you know, Bruce and I are going to do demonstrations every day of the of the festival. At first I was like, kind of like you were talking about No, why would we do that? I didn't know what we're going to do. And then I said, Wait a minute, this is the coolest thing ever. I have no idea what we're gonna do, but I'm gonna go show up. And I kind of needed to hear that right now. Because, you know, it's juxtaposed with having to get on an airplane to go across the country. And I'm not fond of airplane flying these days. So you just reinvigorated my excitement for coming out your way to California in a couple of days.

Christine: 1:54:51

Know that. I love it. I love that. I love that and I and I would I know that there's fears there's phobias There's different things. But I will say that when I am faced with fears like that I, I tend to just go bigger picture and go well. If either I'm supposed to not be here anymore, I'm supposed to keep going. And there's a bigger hand in that the knee. So why be afraid of the airline flight? Because,

Lynn: 1:55:25

yeah, that's just a small pace. Yeah, it's just a, it's just, it's just it is a bit of an inconvenience, but it's really not even that bad. And you know what, I'm back to writing again. And I do a lot of good writing on airplanes, a four hour flight is actually a luxury, because I can just pull up the computer, put on a headset, and go to town, and go, I'm gonna make the most of it. Well, so speaking of

Christine: 1:55:48

writing, I got you give me your book dancing the tightrope at the summit. I did. And I read half of it in two days. Oh, my gosh, so good. I love it. I love you know, I comes down to that, being vulnerable, and you're so vulnerable, and you're so honest, and you share thoughts that most people wouldn't share. And it but helps us, the reader to identify with you and to cheer you on. Because we can see ourselves in you. Thank you, and such I love I can an even reading about the stuff that you do with Bruce, I feel frustrated for you. Because it's like I and you can you can sit in both like I know what he's trying to do. But at the same time, I'd be like, Ah, why isn't this file? Are you helping me? Or what? Why don't they know the answer? Yeah, I'm halfway through. So I will finish. But it's a wonderful book.

Lynn: 1:57:01

So just that feedback is so helpful, because that's exactly what I was hoping people would experience. And, you know, a lot of people that have read the book to now because it hasn't been out that long know me, and sort of had heard the stories firsthand from me. So the fact that you're getting that straight from the book, and you got that tells me it came through on the page, which is always a writer's question is what I'm trying to say. coming through on the page. Exactly. So that's fantastic. Well, I'm so grateful for the time that you've given on this podcast today. What a delightful conversation and I know a lot of people are gonna get a lot out of it. Tell me or tell everybody how to find you. In case they want to follow you, you know possibly work with you. How do they get in touch with you?

Christine: 1:57:50

My website is on the path. coaching.net Okay. I am on Instagram, as Raven Sun ranch. And also I just changed my Hansel,

Lynn: 1:58:10

I think it's like who,

Christine: 1:58:13

on the path underscore in the now. I'm pretty sure that that's it. But you can look up Christine Dixon.

Lynn: 1:58:21

And we'll we'll find it and put it in the show notes as well. Well,

Christine: 1:58:24

it's funny is that my brain was so melted by the end of the summit, that people were asking me for my email address. And I was giving them my website. And not because I my brain wasn't even working. But my Yeah, my email addresses on the path C as in cat H is in Harold T as in tom@gmail.com. So it's on the path ch t@gmail.com. There you go.

Lynn: 1:58:49

So people can find you. And hopefully your email doesn't get too overly inundated. But yes, it's this has been an incredible delight. So thank you so much for joining me here and everybody I will see here, talk to you on the next podcast. Stay tuned. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less of. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.