#25 Michael Cohen: Working in Balance with the Cycles of Life
Michael Cohen woke up to the possibilities of acupuncture when he was told he might not run again after a knee injury. His experience was so profound that he decided to dive deeply into acupuncture and Eastern medicine to learn what this different healing modality is all about. In his journey, he discovered that acupuncture is much more than a way to heal; it can also help enhance athletic performance. This conversation opened my eyes to some nuanced ways of thinking about energy, balance and harmony.
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Intro:
Welcome to creative spirits unleashed where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.
Lynn:
Welcome to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I'm Lynn Carnes, your host. In this episode, I am speaking with Michael Cohen, who is an acupuncturist, and particularly an acupuncturist, who focuses on runners. Now, how I met him, has nothing to do with running or acupuncture, but actually I met him. In a workshop I did in the akimbo workshops that Seth Godin has put together. My first experience of Michael was that he is a man who likes accountability, and I start the podcast by asking him about what makes him so interested in people being accountable, you'll be surprised by his answer, it has to do with teams. But he also goes, we go so much further than acupuncture or even running in this podcast, we talked about everything from the way energy works in the body, how we can be more connected in our communities, what it really means to learn and grow. The dilemmas and drawbacks of the modern era, how the ancient founders of Eastern medicine learned about how the body works based on the laws of nature, even going into perfectionism, and how that relates to energy flow, and how we can learn to create and sustain balance. There's so much to this conversation, and I can't wait to hear what you think about it. But let me say a little bit about Michael, he used to be in the hospitality business and actually got hurt running and found his way to rose and acupuncturist in San Diego, California, who began to show him possibilities of improving his body that he had never expected. So he actually left the hospitality industry and has become a full time well trained acupuncturist with just an incredible focus on not only healing of the body, but keeping yourself well. And he has a lot to say about how we can stay well. And avoid injury, which I think is huge, and how acupuncture can actually help improve performance, which is even more. So I would love to hear what you think about this conversation. The best way to do that is to leave me a voicemail on my website at Lynn carnes.com. On the podcast page, there is a voicemail button on the right. Click that and I get to hear your voice. And you can leave both your comments and questions and feedback for the episode. And as always, I hope you share this episode with your friends, people who are interested in wellness people who are interested in running people who are interested in being athletic and staying healthy. Michael, welcome to the podcast.
Michael:
Hi, Lynn. Thanks for having me.
Lynn:
I'm so glad you're here I am I was thinking back to how we first met. And the thing that struck me when I met you, which was in an akimbo workshop, the story skills workshop. And I don't even know if you remember this, but I
Michael:
do remember we were in like a group of four people, I want to say
Lynn:
yes, and four or five or six people, you were the accountability King. So I remember joining, joining that group. And then we got on a zoom call. And you said something to the effect of there were a lot of people who had dipped their toe in. And I think it's really interesting that you can sign up for a workshop, dip your toe in or sort of say, I'm going to sign up and see if I feel like doing it after I sign up. And there were several people in our group that sort of didn't know what they were signing up for or decided it was too much work or got pulled away with other things things happen. But I remember in that meeting, and this is what impressed me about you a lot was you said I am looking for people to work alongside me. I want accountability for myself, and I want to offer accountability to you. Where did that come from? What what is it that drives you that way? Because it was it didn't strike me as a taskmaster, but more of a balanced way of saying, Hey, I'm here to show up.
Michael:
The first thing that's coming to my mind is is team sports. And growing up playing soccer. I played rugby in college, and just having the support and the backing of your teammates, just really, really came to that that's what comes to me just firsthand. And and just living that experience for years and years and years. And having comfort in having other people's back and you having their back just really sits home with me and the success that we would have by being in that environment. And finding ways to create that outside of team sports is something that I've always looked for and thrived with. And if I can present that and offer that to others and others can can be there with me in that space. I find it brings me to a whole nother level, just like it does when when I would play in a play in a game. And the more often that I would do that with the team, the the higher all of our levels would become.
Lynn:
Wow. It's, it's very fascinating to me that that's where that came from, because it never dawned on me. That's what it was about. That it was team when I started with that question. So what Tell me a little bit about some of your team experiences where you felt that, like, put some life in it way, if you will, about like, I don't know, what sports Did you say you did.
Michael:
I played, I played soccer in high school, and I played rugby in college. And then I transitioned to a solo sport of running. But running actually isn't a solo sport. It really is a team sport, because how you get there and training is, is working with the team. So that's, that's another aspect of, of individualized and, and teamwork. And maybe that's where the, that whole accountability aspect from an individual to a team comes from is maybe my maybe it's my running my running career. And
Lynn:
so long recognizing that there's actually a team.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah, maybe that's really where it came from. You know,
Lynn:
it's interesting. I think, you know, I am deeply into waterskiing and have spent a lot of time with, and it's a solo sport, but with a lot of really great pro coaches. And one of them April Coble, Eller is being inducted into the Hall of Fame next week. And she called me this week, I was supposed to go, and I'm gonna have to go to the virtual win instead. But she was talking about this, how much of a team sport waterskiing is, even though we're out on the water by ourselves, there is a boat driver. But she said, Nobody succeeds in this sport without a team. And she was so excited that her parents are going to get to be at the induction of, for her Hall of Fame. And of course, this is an era of COVID, where it's hard to put people together and so forth. But tell me like, so it strikes me that these sports that we think are individual art? And yeah, what is it that what like, tell me about a running team, I don't, I don't know if I even understand because I'm not a runner. So I look at it, and I'm like, okay, you put your shoes on, and you go faster than you would walk it that's running. So that's my level of understanding. So help me and everybody listening, to understand what it really means to be a runner.
Michael:
So running is such an individualized sport, and it takes will to get out there, whether it be every day, every other day, five times a week, six times a week, to motivate yourself to go out and run. And having that team with you to be there with you to run brings you that accountability that we first started talking about. So like my running team is my is my family, it's my community. And knowing that I can go out at seven in the morning and see Joe down the street, who I know is going to be running outside and be able to wave and say hello, or knowing that I'm going to run with Richard on Tuesdays and Thursdays and have that person with me. We have our tempo runs around the bay, or it's going to the track and having our speed workout. And I can do all those things by myself and I will get I will get faster I will achieve my goals, I will be able to satisfy my health in terms of another reason why I run into relieve stress. But knowing that there's other people there with me to to go there on that journey with me just brings brings another element to to the to the sport. And yes, it is individual, but I wouldn't be the runner I am today if I didn't have the others with me. And and the others are our all my running family and even the people I see just on the road of passing by I mean it becomes just a family runners love runners. And if you see someone running down the street and you see him on the other side of the street, you wave and say hello, or someone comes and runs past you and and says Great job, great running. And it's the same thing when you're running in a race everyone is there to support each other. And it's interesting how the running is is so individualized yet people want to help each other. Whereas a lot of other sports it's let's let's take you out Let's beat you. It's very competitive, but it's always against the other person where I really feel like in running everyone's competing with themselves and everyone else is there for the ride to go along. And even you see the the competitive marathons they they run in packs. They they run together and it It's not until the end, that whoever has the most juice to go and win wins. And someone sets the pace. And usually the others follow follow in. And there's even a team element in that regard, which is really fascinating, interesting when you compare it to other other sports,
Lynn:
that is so interesting, because that what I'm hearing so many different threads I want to follow, because of what I'm hearing is sort of the feeling of not being alone having common ground of being for other people instead of against them, of sharing a journey. You know, it's like running it as a metaphor for our personal journeys. And recognizing that other people are experiencing what you're experiencing, which probably includes occasionally aches and pains, right.
Michael:
Definitely.
Lynn:
Yeah. So and that's actually your specialty.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah, I'm an acupuncturist. And I'm building my practice to focus on treating athletes runners, with their their aches or pains, preventative measures to prevent injuries and battle through them when they come. And even to enhance performance when they're, when they're wanting to achieve those goals, whether they be personal, or to qualify for a race and use Eastern medicine to get them to another level and and basically teach the body how to recover faster. And when the body's recovering and working at optimal levels. you achieve higher grounds.
Lynn:
Yeah, yeah, I hear you're in a city. So
Michael:
I, I am, I'm pretty sure
Lynn:
that's not happening here. So, so um, you know, it's interesting, because in like, lower, where we, where I live, there's only 1000 people. And we do have fire departments and police departments. And usually if we hear the sirens, we know where it's going, or we know the person involved, or we know the people who are fighting the fire or something. So one day, I was driving walking down the street in Washington, DC when a fire truck went by now mind you, I'm in Washington, DC, okay, a fire truck goes by the person I'm with who lives in Washington, DC thinks nothing of it. And I look at the fire truck and I go, I wonder what's going on. And she looked at me like I was an alien. And I said, Well, I said in my town. I wonder what's going on is a relevant question. Because it probably somebody I know. Totally. Yeah. And anyway, we're like knowledge the sirens just went by?
Michael:
Totally. Yeah. So yeah, I live across the street from from a firehouse. And I think I've learned to just phase it out. Like I said, there's a there's a fire and I didn't even I didn't even hear it. I was listening.
Lynn:
See, I just showed I just proved my point by virtue of having heard it. Same thing. When I go to New York City, and I have to stay in a hotel, I always ask for the the high floors, just because the city noises that other people can tune out. You know, I'm listening for crickets and coyotes. And there are none of those in the city. Right? It's pretty funny. So. So you, I want to understand something about acupuncture. Because I've had it just a couple of times. And I've done a lot of, I pay a lot of attention to my energy. As you know, I also work with horses. And the thing that's interesting about horses is people don't really understand unless they're really into the horse world, or really study this, that horses communicate through energy. Because they have to, like as a prey animal. They're not talking to each other when something's coming. They're feeling it. And then it's almost like, and I'm sure that this is actually happening in science, maybe hadn't even 100% caught up with it. I think they're doing mind reading with each other. I think they're sending energetic messages. So I know acupuncture is, you know, touching our CI our energy, but explain a little bit about how that works. Because for a lot of Western people, it just seems, you know, I don't want to use the word Woo. But it's like mysterious. Like how does it work?
Michael:
It it's, there's so many different ways to go about explaining it and understanding it and, and experiencing it. And I think that's the most important way to to understand ci is m ci as some people call it an energy some people call it a life force in it's it's a it's hard to put it into words to be honest. And even going through my academic career which was was four years of Eastern medical school, where before I went, I only experienced ci by getting acupuncture and becoming an acupuncturist. Now, I've been practicing for over five years now. And even now, I feel like I'm still scratching the surface in terms of what it actually is. And how I like to describe it is, it's, it's just, it can be a feeling that you have or when you see someone and you see their expression, and it sends an energy to you of how they're feeling. Or when you give someone a hug, there's a really welcoming, strong, like bear hug and you feel that energy, or it's just a hug, where someone's hugging you just to hug you, like, you can actually feel the difference. And they're still they're both hugs, but what is that energy that they're actually conveying, that allows you to understand that this is a loving, warm hug, or this is a hug that I'm doing just to hug you, because it's formality.
Lynn:
And we've all kind of forgotten what hugs are, like in the last year, but you could tell a difference when,
Michael:
Yeah, totally. And you could say that for so many different things. And, and it's even the expression that you have with someone in a conversation or the tone of their voice, or it's the feeling that you get, when you when you touch something that's that's very hot, or, or, or very cold, it's an energy, it's a sensation, and, and all those things are the key. And that's that, that's that four sets at energy, that is communicating information, or just energy between people between inanimate objects, with the earth with the air, the sky, I mean, it's it, there's so many layers to it, it's, it's, and that's where it becomes so difficult to define and explain it because she actually, in my opinion, in my experience, can be come in many different forms, and many different aspects. And I could probably keep talking about this thing, right the rest of the time. But I'd love to hear what what, what your feelings are just based on what i what i just expressed.
Lynn:
Well, I you know, several, gosh, probably more than several years ago, so probably a decade ago, we there's a Tai Chi practitioner here, an acupuncturist in the area who did a chi gong class. And I took it because I was trying to understand this whole idea. And he said something like, it's like, the CI is like the wind, which means you can't see it. But you see the effects of it, you feel the effects of it. And, you know, I want to argue because I say well, I can see the wind because I can see the trees. He is like no, you see what the wind is doing to the trees. But you don't see the wind itself.
Michael:
Yeah, I mean, I don't have the, the there's another example of that. And I wish I knew the the exact science behind it. But like with electricity and the power lines, you don't see the energy of electricity moving through the lines. It just, it just goes from one area to the other. And there's also like a science behind it, where if you put a light bulb next to a power line, I think this is the the example it actually will receive, it'll light up it'll receive some of that energy. So even though it's not in the the forces of the entrapment of the power lines, it's still the energy exudes outside the line. So even though you can't see it, you can't touch it. And it's there, it's still spreads and is in other places.
Lynn:
There's no question about that. Actually, I actually I will tell you what happened to us that are like with the power company. So we bought a like that we've turned into a ski like there is a power easement running across that lake. So there is a big power line. And it was droopy. And when skiers turn the water sprays up. And my husband's an electrical engineer. So he went to the power company and said, We need those power lines rise because we're going to be skiing under them. And I don't want the electricity arcane to the water. So even if the water didn't hit the power line, we were to understand and the power company 100% agreed with this and put in a new power pole to protect us was if the water got close enough to it, it would arc back down. And so we had to get the power line high enough so no skier spray could reach it, not the watt power itself but that range you're talking about.
Michael:
Yeah, and that could go along the lines of like the horses and people where we have our energy within us yet there is something that comes out outside of us that actually can touch other people without being able to see it feel it and and or even understand it.
Lynn:
Well, you know, I do heart rate variability training. Have you ever seen you know, heart math? Are you familiar with them? I am
Michael:
I haven't done a lot with them. But it's it's fascinating where I'll let you talk about it. But like we can be connected on the same heart map frequency and be attracted to each other to have that bond in that conversation. Well, and whatever it might be,
Lynn:
right and what what heart rate variability is measuring is the space between the beats and how even it is. So what you're seeking is what they call coherence, which means that you almost, if you look at it in on a on a graph, it creates like a beautiful way, like a very smooth way. Because every beat is evenly spaced. And what heart math, many years ago, maybe when I was first, I would say skeptically entering this field. So it was probably 25 years ago, they had been able to measure people's heart rate variability and and pick up their heartbeat from several feet away. So for sure the energy of our hearts going out where you can feel it and what I've actually heard. Again, I'm not a scientist, so I haven't really studied this. But it makes sense to me makes logical sense that horses actually recognize our heart rate variability, so they can actually detect, and they're bit they're in the business of detecting do we mean help or harm. And if we are approaching them with nervousness, if we're approaching them in a sneaky way, they need to read our intentions, because that's their life on the line, they can tell if our heart is beating evenly or not. So it does make sense to me that she is is. I mean, I don't think it even has to make sense. I just think it is like it doesn't even matter whether science has figured it out or not. If animals can do it, it means we just haven't figured out how to tell how they're doing it yet.
Michael:
Totally. And the interesting thing is there's there also are a lot of scientific studies and research trying to explain what what the CI is, there's a great book called The spark in the machine that starts to dive into this. And a lot of the theory behind it is or just some basic information is there's a thin covering around all muscles, all organs, all basically the tendons and the ligaments, basically are made of collagen. But the sheet that covers everything is my fascia. And my fascia has college and it's one of the main ingredients, and collagen carries an electric charge. So it's a way for there to be this almost like the power lines, this electric connectivity, going from the Oregon's through the Maya fascia to the muscles to the limbs, have a way to channel and actually let this energy run through. And from an from an Eastern medicine and acupuncture standpoint, there are 12 primary meridians of these pathways of Myo fascia that run to the different organs in the body. And there's also some extraordinary channels. And that's a whole nother topic. But just the basics is from the tips of the fingers, the tips of the toes are the beginning and ending points of the different meridians within the body. And that's where the myofascial line begins. And then it runs through the muscles, it has the connection between the joints through the ligaments and the tendons keeping that collagen that electric charge, and then it makes its way up to the Oregon. And then there's usually a paired organ that it can then exchange like an entry and exit point to then move to the other area. And then it forms a cycle. And everything then is connected as one basically being united by these different what we'd call channels of the of the meridians flowing through the body. And that's where you can use a needle which carries an electric charge to conduct the signal to run through the Myo fascia and actually create these changes within the within the organs from an internal medicine standpoint, in addition to the external aspects. So I just rambled on a lot of information, which makes sense to me, but it took me like eight years, two or four years of school for it to finally start the clip. Because it's, it's a different way of looking at how the body works. And then there's so many different layers because you have the nervous system involved as well, which then sends signals to the spinal column to the brain to then start to take action with working in those systems as well. So it's, it's, um, it's so complex, yet it's so fascinating.
Lynn:
It's it will so what struck me as you were describing that was just an awareness. And I think there's no question about this. And I think science knows this as well. I mean, pretty much everybody we are electric beings, like our neurons fire and they're not touching. We know it hops from one to the other and As you were describing that I was picturing, you know, those little kits that kids get, like the snap on electric kits, or you can move the current around and create different pathways of electricity.
Michael:
I think I know what you're talking about,
Lynn:
it's like, it's just a simple kit for kids to understand how electricity works. And when you were talking about that I was picturing sort of that little, that little like the interior of the body that you create a different you can create or open pathways for electricity to flow just like we do, you know, with a little kits or in our house, you know, or when we have a short note, like, in a way, when something isn't flowing in our body, it could be like a short in our boat, or in our car, there's something that's keeping electricity from going from one place to the other.
Michael:
That's exactly it. And okay, and that's where over the 1000s of years, they discovered different effects of different areas of the body that has different sensitivities, that can create different changes within the body. So when the but I know balance is a huge aspect of, of living a quality life. And when balance is thrown off in the body homeostasis is thrown off. And whenever that balances off, then pathologies or illness or pains or aches or stresses Come on. And usually those balances are thrown off by either too much, which is excess, too little, which is deficiency or stagnation, something's blocked. So the one of the aspects of diagnosis from an Eastern medicine mind is to figure out where something may be out of balance, and then how it's affecting other aspects of your body or your life. And then trying to correct that to bring the body back to balance and homeostasis, where you're feeling. Feeling good.
Lynn:
You know, I just remembered, I had I had not thought about thought about this at all, until you just talked about being out of balance and how things can get thrown out. 20 years ago, I decided I was going to try running. And I was running through my neighborhood. This point, I probably needed a team to tell me not to do what I was doing, which was pushing myself too much. But I the curb, I was like a lip of asphalt next to the to the curb, and I rolled my ankle one day, and all of a sudden, really had a hard time walking and had to go to the doctor and got an X ray and discovered I had a stress fracture, which meant that I got to wear a boot, which ended up being a boot I wore for 12 weeks, which completely threw me out of balance. Because lifting and walking with that boot, you know, was not just one thing, it was like the whole body got out of whack. Because of one little injury, so when you were talking about like a thing, causing somebody to be out of balance, it's really important for us to keep ourselves in balance.
Michael:
Totally and, and it's funny how unconsciously, we'll do things that put us out of balance that we don't even realize, because it becomes a regular habit that we might have learned when we were young, or that we're doing just to survive, or or that was was taught to us that may not be the way that we're supposed to be doing things in terms of living with Mother Nature and the earth and working within the cycles of life. And and I think that's that's something that is an interesting aspect of our culture, is we're in a more and more and more and more and more type of culture, where we always want to reach a goal and then reach the next goal and then reach next goal and it's always go, go go go go. And is is that? Is that sustainable. And when you look at how things work on Earth, in terms of life, there are cycles, and those cycles, don't always there's highs and lows. And there's changes that occur. And I look at that a lot of times in myself and wonder is what I'm doing to achieve my goals actually how I would how I'm supposed to be living. And that comes with with looking at yourself and looking at balance.
Lynn:
Boy, that that opens such an interesting thought for me because I've been thinking a lot about this idea of cycles of life and what we're doing in this sort of more and more and more culture of, you know, and what we do and what I have had to really work on myself about on achieving a goal. You know, trying to get to the end without realizing that so much of the process of life is not the getting to the end, or it's not the being at the end. It's the getting there and what you can learn about yourself along the way. So it's really Like you need to know your goal. But imagine now breaking it down step by step by step frame by frame by frame. And then really living in each moment as you move from one point to the other. And I feel like our ancestors had to live that way. You know, the tending of a garden, if you think about it is you can, like, I'm starting my tomatoes or started my tomatoes. And we're a long way from having actual tomatoes. But every day, there's a tending that goes on, right. And there's things that have to happen, especially when they're young little plants, to make sure that they're ready to grow tomatoes, two or three months from now. Yeah, and our ancestors knew that because that's the only way they ate.
Michael:
Yeah, and tomatoes, they taste best in the summertime, they grow best in the summertime. Yeah, if you try to grow tomatoes in the winter, they, they don't, they don't grow, when they if they did grow, they probably wouldn't taste as sweet and wonderful, as they do in the summertime. And that's where you have more tomatoes in the summer, and you have less tomatoes in the winter. And that's where that balance comes in. And there's there's a time and a place to, to cultivate and grow and prosper. And then there's a time to relax and let rest to to build yourself up to be ready for that prosperous time. And I think about that with with my career with my training. And I don't know a story that keeps coming to me right now is, is when I first started, started running. And when I first started running I I used to live in a town in San Diego called Mission Beach. And there's a bay just a buck and a half from where I lived. And normally I would go out and I would walk around the bay. And I did a little running it. I never did distance running. But I did running for training, which was more of Sprint's and we would run more than two or three miles at a time. And one day I just decided to go for for a run. And the loop around the bay is is five miles. And the most I've ever run to that date was probably like, like three miles. And I don't know what came over me. But I ended up running around the entire Bay. And I had my first runner's high. I had never felt that way before I felt ridiculously amazing. And instead of stopping, like, I don't even know if I should say a normal person, but instead of just stopping, I decided I'm feeling so good. I'm gonna do this again. And I ran around the bay a second time, and I ended up running 10 miles around around this bay. And I felt on top of the world. And the next day I woke up and my knee was hurting. like you wouldn't believe I had to go to the doctor. And I had tendinitis. And now I it's, I did too much too soon. And and that just kind of brings brings to that question of you know, there's there's an excess aspect of of and was it the right time to run 10 miles? Or should I have been in that building phase of getting myself ready to be able to do that? And what feels good a lot of times isn't what's best for you. So it's it's some and that's that was a really great life lesson for me in terms of my running career right off the bat, have a balance and that was before before I was even an acupuncturist?
Lynn:
Yeah, well, I bet you Well, you know, I've so I've experienced a runner's high myself, but it's not been when I was running. But it's when I've allowed myself in the horse work, I think the most important one ever happened. I was on the back of a horse with one of my teachers. And she was trying to get me to relax. And I had been thrown from a horse. So I thought that idea of relaxing on the back of an animal that could throw me off was about the stupidest idea anybody could come up with. But she's, she's like, but imagine how he feels having the two before of you being up there. Like you're all stiff. And you know, you're scaring him because, you know, never in a million years is a horse gonna think that the person on his back that is scared of the horse. Never is the horse going to go well. I'm scaring that human. It can't happen. The horse is scared because he's the prey. So he was he was fine. He was doing really well except for I was so stiff. And she said relax. And then she taught me through how to relax and ask him to turn left. And the flood of endorphins that hit me when I actually relaxed. It was such an eye opener, because what I realized, and I had been, I'd been working with another horse guy Bruce Anderson who said, You know what, what he thinks is happening to our world is that we are taking something that is less, and using it to enrich ourselves instead of say, taking something that is less, and helping it to lift itself up. And if you think about our society we do, we don't lift each other up as much as we should, like you talked about at the beginning with, with a teammate. Yeah. So what he thinks has happened is, when we, when we feel less than we go buy something, we go take it, somebody else out, we gain our revenge, or we do something that's not in balance with the way we're meant to be. Rather than just allowing ourselves to have the natural endorphins of what life is, when we grow a good tomato, or when we're relaxed, when we turn the horse of bright white, or when we run and get that runner's high, that we that we've lost what our natural gift of our, our internal systems are to say, hey, you're doing a good job.
Michael:
Totally. And we're, we were, we were basically born into this world as, as, as communities and tribes, and survive, we are in our genes, and our DNA is to work as a team and work together. Because if you don't, you're, you're not going to survive. And we've become very independent through technology, but our core basically, being wants us to have that support and help and working together with others. And when you can actually accept that and, and seek it, whether that be asking for accountability and sharing accountability, then it you naturally start to feel good, and you and you naturally start to improve and get better, and grow. And not only do you grow the people around you grow, and it's like that tomato plant, you know, getting the nurturing from, from the rain and from the sun, or from from Lynn, tending to it in the garden and giving giving her love and seeing those bigger tomatoes and and, and so on. So it's it really is getting to the core aspect of what life is. And life is about working together as a as a community from from a human perspective. And like, a rock is just a rock. And it stays there for its whole life. And I guess it it does get some some nurturing from from the wind and so on. And but but at the same time, human beings need to move need to change need to grow, to feel fulfilled. And and to really build that up having support with others is brings brings you to a whole nother level.
Lynn:
It's what you're talking about. Just in the last couple of years, one of my colleagues do, Robertson has started a company called incease conscious business. And this exact reason about how we are really meant to operate together, versus how we are trying to operate together in the modern world, is her whole point of the business. And it's that idea in a culture where we put you know, 1000s of people in the company, instead of the small tribes we grew up, you know, not we grew up with, because we grew up in the modern era, but in the era where we were in smaller groups where we had to know each other where we had to help each other. And what what lens sees has developed as a way of having people understand their culture from a Maslow's hierarchy of needs standpoint. Because I think we completely force people to like, not understand the level of safeties that we need. I think we tell people to get over it without having them realize, you know, we're always trying to figure out, Are we safe? Are we going to have food are we going to have shelter, and when I was in the corporate world I had, and I still occasionally will go here, but not as much I called it the homeless sequence. But you you do something that gets you, you know, you've screwed up. And that's just normal life. There's mistakes, right? But when you screw up, you start thinking the homeless sequence, which is Oh, I've screwed up, I'm gonna lose my job. If I lose my job, I might not be able to get another one. If I don't get another job, then I'm going to end up on the street and if I'm on the street, I might die. And that happens. I know, I, I know so many people who feel that so in this work that she's doing, it's bringing the consciousness and the awareness of the need for human safety and the human. The way to develop trust with humans trust and connection back to the corporate life. And, you know, I keep thinking, what is it going to take for us. And all of us people like you who are conscious to bring us back to who we are supposed to be as humans. And how are we supposed to work together?
Michael:
There's so many things that are coming to my mind right now. And, and, as as this relates to business is the whole business model of how business is conducted right now, in terms of profits, revenue, and beating last quarter. And that seems to be the, the the model that is in existence right now. And something that I always think about is sustainability. Because we are living creatures living on the this planet Earth. And there are laws of nature that exist. And those laws of nature exists, because they're, they sustain each other. And like what we've talked about earlier about having the different seasons and time of rest and time growth. And business, the current business model doesn't fall within that cycle. Because it's always more More, more, more more. And I believe, that's why things are starting to break down, in a way in economics and finance and, and disparity of, of wealth. And the reason for that is because of the basis of the model, is that sustainable? So if you want to create a business that is sustainable, can you adopt these cycles of how things work within nature, and use that as a comparison to build into the model of how you conduct your business. And, and there's, I could, I could share some theories and, and, and hypotheses I have on on this topic. And really how I attain that understanding was the basis of how Eastern medicine and acupuncture was formed. In terms of health, basically, what the ancient healers 5000 years ago started to do was they would compare how the body works, and how that compares to nature. And different organs actually have a lot of characteristics similar to areas of nature. So the heart is very symbolic of fire in terms of how it works and how it it it operates. The kidneys are have a lot of similarities still to water. And and the, the the water system flowing through the kidneys and the blood. There's I mean, the filtering system there. Yeah. So I could go on and on with these things. And basically, how these organs interact with each other, should actually be very similar to how those elements interact with each other within nature. So when something becomes out of balance, then how that out of balance works in nature should be similar to what it's doing in the body. And this is where that that Fufu kind of weird, voodoo magic of acupuncture kind of gets thrown in. Because they're, they're using these examples as metaphors to explain things, not actually what's actually happening existing. That does that. Does that make sense? In terms of, because that's where it kind of goes into a whole nother world of it being not science, but being this mysterious medicine that doesn't hold by laws of actual laws and scientific theory.
Lynn:
Well, the laws of nature, I think, are, are the most powerful laws we have. Because they just like all you have to do, you know, we own 160 acre camp. And, you know, it's by civilize this land by putting buildings up and trails in and roads in and so forth for the camp. Well, there, there was 300 people staying there at times, we're just two people with a few extra cabins and so forth. So we're not keeping up with all the modern stuff. You just have to watch how fast nature takes over a trail to see the laws and the power of the laws of nature. And I look at like, I think about what you were talking about. And I don't know if somebody prompted this to me or I read something. But if I look at trees, what I see is Long's like if you look at the structure of our lungs, it's just upside down, right? Because the the tree starts from the ground up and the lung starts from the throat down or the saw, you know, what it looks exactly like trees look like upside down lungs. And so, you would want to study and by the way, guess what they're providing the air my lungs are breathing.
Michael:
Totally.
Lynn:
Yeah, so and we can learn from that.
Michael:
Exactly. And, and that's where the whole Eastern medicine is, is derived from is those comparisons and those analogies, and typically, it, they hold up because there they are the laws of nature. And, and that's where like, where we were just talking about the business, that's where I think, if we want to grow a business, it's looking to see, are we doing things that actually can work within the laws of how things work of where we are, and is that to always thrive and do more, or is there maybe a way to get small, and have a smaller community, and to be able to support them feasibly. And you get back to them, and they get back to you, instead of always take take, take, get get get. So I think that's something that's, that's really fascinating to think about, in terms of a business model, of of looking at things from a more sustainable aspect of, of, in that regard, instead of always growing, maybe it's, it's staying staying flat, reaching a point that can be, give you what you need, and give to others what they need. And if you can reach that point where it's imbalanced, then this business is going to do well, the people it serves is going to do well. And that will actually live through the ages. If as long as as those things are kept in balance.
Lynn:
That's I think, exactly what you know, when Sue started her business that she was hoping to be able to do is and not necessarily to limit the size of a company. But to limit like to let them see what they need to do to make it feel like it's small, to make it feel like people matter. And that safety is a is an element. And trust is important, if that makes sense. Because I think we just all get so shut down within ourselves. And I don't think we call it shut down because we don't feel shut down. But we are. And, you know, I follow it another year. If you're if you talk to me, you're gonna hear about horses now. Funny that three years ago, I didn't have any knowledge or caring about horses, and now I do. But I follow this guy who was on my podcast in May, Warwick Schiller. And he talks about, like, taking horses from a shutdown state, which looks that here's the thing to the average person, the shutdown horse looks okay. Just like the shutdown employee does. Right? They're functioning, they're talking, they're doing their job. But what you don't begin to recognize is what really missing and getting, you know, not getting from them, but having them offer up the best of themselves. And so, if I think about, I think about myself in different jobs, but I also just think about all of the people out there who are protecting themselves because that's what we're living. Like, if we're shut down, it's because we're shut down. Because we're inside of armor that's designed to protect us. We're doing we put up our wall so that we're okay, and are so that we can function without completely going crazy. And I just think about what happens if we create an environment where everybody can actually bring their best.
Michael:
Totally. And what that makes me think about is it's ci, and every, every employee, every part of the business, is bringing their ci, their energy and their ability to the business to make it flow to make it work to make it thrive to to allow it to live. And the employee that you discussed about where they look like every other employee, but they're they're not happy, or they're they're rundown, or they're, they're stuck, they're stagnant, and that that ci then constricts. And it blocks the cycle of the free flowing ci and that balance that would exist within the whole company or the whole business. So that would be one aspect of comparing ci to a business. And that's where everything has cheat. And it's just a matter of how you look at it. And in that example, there was some stagnation, because we talked about earlier there being either excess, too much deficiency too little or stagnation. And that person who's stuck is then creating one little stuck spot within the business and that either can get bigger and bigger and bigger and more stuck and then it can start to spread to other places. Or how can you free up that stuckness and Let the business ci start to flow more naturally, or is the business owner working way, way, way too much, and, and then there's excess at the top, and then there's deficiency at the bottom, because the employees aren't doing what they should be doing, because the boss is trying to always do it always trying to do it. And that creates something out of balance, then the business isn't working the way it's supposed to. So how can you bring that back to homeostasis, back to balance. So there's so many examples of associating CIH, or life or this energy to anything, and it doesn't have to be your body and what's inside, it could be looking at a business that that's on paper, but it's made up of this ci of energy of everyone within it.
Lynn:
I think I think what you're really talking about is flow. It's the flow of energy, it's the flow of electricity, it's the flow of information, it's the flow of caring and trust with each other. You know, it's how do we keep that movement? And what is the unseen? That makes this so tricky? Yeah, you know, I call I talked about in the book that I'm writing, you know, dancing the tightrope, I talk about the difference between tools versus rules, rules, being our armor, our way of doing things, nothing wrong with rules, actually, sometimes we need them. But tools means that I can kind of handle anything that's coming my way. And I call them the invisible tools, because they're the things that you build or call upon within yourself that people ness can't necessarily see. But yet their presence becomes known like the wind. In other words, you see the impact of them. But you don't necessarily see the tool itself. And I think we've all experienced at least moments of flow at work, where a team is, all of a sudden, they find light, it's like they find their groove, and they're almost moving is one. Yeah, but most of the time, it feels clunky. You know, it feels like they're stuck places, and that there's stagnation. And there's too much over here and too little over there.
Michael:
Yeah, and how do you and how do you find that, that sweet spot where everything is flowing. And, and that's where I really feel like it's that community. And it's that teamwork that we started this conversation off with, that can actually have something to compare it to, to bring the unconscious to consciousness. And that's where accountability can really coming, you know, full circle back, that's where accountability really comes into play. Because when you're doing things, the way you've always done them, you're unconscious of where you're going, or if you're stagnant, or if you're an excess, or if you're in deficiency. But if you then align yourself with someone in with accountability, you're able to basically have that have that point of comparison, or actually bring that unconscious to the conscious by discussing it with someone else. And that's where you can actually start to create change, because that's what we're trying to do with with business and life is create these changes within ourselves. And when you create change, you create growth. And when you don't, then you are stagnant, and you're not changing and and eventually you're you're dying. And and how do you that's how I live my life is is I want to evolve, I want to change and I want to I want to grow. And if I'm not doing that with others, then I don't even know where I where I am. Which which it sounds a little strange. But but that's that's one of the one thing that I know is coming to me right now.
Lynn:
So one of the things that I struggled with for and a lot of people I know struggle with is the sort of having a perfectionistic mindset with like, if I can only get it perfect. And I remember when I started taking piano lessons as an adult, I actually cared about how I played instead of when I was a kid, I didn't really care and I really hated practicing and my mother and I thought so much about it wasn't even funny. But I remember saying to my instructor, I want to learn to play this piece through perfectly. And he left and he was a professional musician. I mean, he played with people like Marsalis people like that he been around and I said Why are you laughing at me? I want to be perfect like you and he goes, he says I'm never perfect. He said I've never had a perfect performance. And I said but you I've listened to you I don't hear any mistakes. He goes that's because I've learned to play through my mistakes. But what strikes me And this is something I work on with my mentioned Bruce Anderson, the guy worked with him with horses a lot. He calls perfection death, he says perfection is death. But I don't think I had ever connected till today when you were using the language stagnation, which means no movement. Perfection is stagnation as well. Because Where are you going to go once you're perfect?
Michael:
Totally. That's, that's, that's amazing. I mean to think of that, think of it in that way. Because it is when, when you're perfect, where can you go?
Lynn:
There's no place to go. And what I've been thinking a lot about in balance, and this is around skiing, but it's also you know, I'm a rower as well. So I wrote a sculling boat, which looks so easy, kind of like running, I think, I think what I've learned in the last few years is anytime I say something, like horseback riding or riding, running or anything and say, it's just running, how hard can it be? That's the first hint that there's a whole lot more to it than meets the eye. But as, as I've looked at all these ballots things, what I've come to recognize is, it's not the staying in balance that matters, it's having the tools to constantly recalibrate, towards that balance point. That matters. Because if you're in one place, you're stagnant is what you're saying.
Michael:
Definitely, and, and with that being said is is is where do you want to go? And and what what do you want to what do you want to see? What do you want to do? How do you want to change? and having that why and having that, that reason, also, can bring to light whether you're in stagnation or not. And yeah, and and if you don't know where that is, then then you also become stuck, because you're just living as opposed to living with a purpose,
Lynn:
right. And the other thing that's coming to my mind is those times where we think we want to try harder. So we bear down on the same exact thing we've been doing this been getting a stagnated. But I'm going to try even harder, as opposed to trying something different or doing something in a new way.
Michael:
Yeah, and that's that, then that stagnation becomes excess, because you're going going, going, going going, and this is another Eastern medicine, Eastern medicine philosophy is the Yin, can eventually turns into Yang. And Yang eventually turns into Yin. So if you're working, working, working, working, working in excess, eventually that becomes deficiency and you're tired, worn out, and you can't do anything. And and and you do that for for a cycle. And here's where the cycles come in. And then you do that for a cycle, and then you're tired, you're rested, you're not doing anything, and you finally don't fight anymore, and you rest. And what happens the the Yin turns into Yang and you have your energy back, and you can go go go go go Yeah, but what would happen if you could find that sweet spot where you weren't going, zigzag, zigzag zigzag, and could just be in that sweet spot of, of, of being in better balance to sustain. But at the same time, you need little bursts of ups and downs to mixed in. Because one of the another great rule to live by is is when you when you too much of the same thing, it isn't a good thing either. And if you're always living in balance, you you better being stagnant because you're not going into different extremes to change. So you also need those little breakups of excess and deficiency. So it's it and that's what makes life so complicated. Yet it's so simple to just live and be. And that's where I think coming together with community just to be able to recognize that and be conscious of it is is what life's all about.
Lynn:
It's what what was when I was thinking about it was you were talking is the importance of recovery. It's become one of my life. I am so tuned in to, I press hard and then I recover. I press hard and then I recover. Because if I go go go, then first of all for me. What if I go into like a long recovery, if I'm not careful, it's you know, eating, eating food in front of Netflix for hours and not being able to get myself back out of recovery. Right, I get stuck in the rest and I can get stuck in the work. So it's knowing how to cycle back and forth. And isolation, you know, or Yeah, just sort of being able to create that kind of oscillation. Yeah, and that's
Michael:
it. It's totally nature and you're talking to the same guy over here who's talking to preaching about balance and I run 26.2 mile marathons, which is in no way balance at all. So, I mean, and that's where you have to live the life that that you love, and, and also be drawn into more efficient ways to, to recover and, and be able to live the life you want to live. And, and that's where I've really become so infatuated with with this medicine that I've experienced when I injured my knee to changing careers and going back to school and becoming an acupuncturist to just to learn about it. And it's completely changed me how I live and how I recover. Because I think recovery is, is a huge aspect. And along those same lines, it's it's, we have to be recognized that as human beings, we want more, we want more. And that's I think, why business has that mindset. And in order to balance that it's to find ways to recover and to or be conscious of, of, I'm in that more more more state and I need to take a step back. And here's where it there's there's no right or wrong answer. Everyone has a different path. And it's, it's being in tune with that and and in leaning on others to to help you when you do become a stray. And it's it's funny, because I feel like I could talk about so many different things right now. Because ideas are coming to my mind right now, because we're getting very philosophical than
Lynn:
we are. But it's philosophical in a practical way. Because if, you know, one of the first things whenever I bring on a coaching client that I have them start with is understanding this cycle of recovery and work and what they're doing, especially to make up for not recovering, so I don't sleep. So I Milky Way's and drink cokes to keep myself going during the day. Right? So what are you doing right now to cope with the lack of a healthy oscillation. And a lot of times I say you don't really need a coach, you need a nutritionist or you need somebody that can just show you some of the basic things like what you do, Michael, because when you get that in place, all of a sudden, you're going to find a new you.
Michael:
Totally.
Lynn:
So you said something earlier, I really want to explore on this acupuncture thing, especially around runners, but as an athlete, because I I have a lot of places where I use my body in an athletic way, not just about healing, because I've been thinking about, like, I've always kind of thought of acupuncture is something to fix a problem. But you said enhanced performance. So how, how does one use acupuncture to enhance their athletic performance, especially runners, because that's your target market?
Michael:
Yeah, so really, the whole process is involves getting the body to be more efficient. And ways to do that comes it all speaks to that, that balance aspect, where as, as humans, we we run in certain ways or, or athletes have different forms different bodies. And, and naturally at birth, we have different different builds. And naturally, you might have a stronger upper body versus a weaker lower body or your your balance gets thrown off from work or this or that. So one aspect of that is certain muscles get really tight, and other muscles get weak or inhibited. So to become a to enhance performance. What if you actually started to get those weaker muscles to relax, and got those inhibited muscles start working. And if that started to happen, then the body's working in a more balancing aspect of how it's actually designed to perform and work. And then you'll start to see enhanced performance. So that's one one aspect of, of using the medicine for performance and aspect enhancement. The other aspect is when when we're training and when we're working, we're actually breaking down our body and the body is having to to rebuild it. And the body does that through flow through blood flow and through just all the workings inside the body. What acupuncture does, is it helps to promote this blood flow. So if there are certain areas that are getting broken down, whoa, what if we put a needle there and told the brain to send more blood flow to that area, more antibodies, more white blood cells to help Speed up that healing process, then you're able to recover faster and you can get back out there and, and break down your body again. And that's what we're doing is athletes, every time we go out and we train, we're breaking down our body, and then through sleep at rest, we're rebuilding and the balance aspect coming in. So what we can do with acupuncture and Eastern medicine, is identify what is what needs attention. And there's two or three different elements involved. And one is that whole aspect of what's working too much what's working too little, can we bring that into harmony. And overtime, if we can retrain the body to start to do that, naturally, you the body will start to do it itself. So that's the one aspect and then the other aspect is let's encourage the body to heal faster, and get better sleep because acupuncture naturally gets the vibe to secrete serotonin, which helps to relax you and get you in a state to sleep better. And it's also looking at not only the branch the aspect of what's causing you discomfort or or causing you pain or, or is being overworked or underworked, it's worth looking at what is the root cause of what's causing you to work the way you're working. And if you can start addressing those needs, through stimulating the body through these different points to give signals to the brain to say, pay attention to me to start either working or flowing again, or start working less, you can then create a performance enhancing machine. Wow.
Lynn:
I can't imagine any athlete not wanting that.
Michael:
It's, I think we're getting to the it's about education. And it's understanding that that's how the body works. And if there's an efficient way to do it from the inside, then you're going to perform better on the outside. And currently, we focus all of our training on training plans, coaches, pushing through mental endurance, and, and working harder and go go go go, and what what if there was another way, and that other ways to actually go deep inside the body and see how it's actually working for a physiological level, and reteach it to work the way it's designed to work to become more efficient, more effective, and provide better results. And that's what I'm working on with my patients, when I work with performance enhancement for for their sport.
Lynn:
That's fantastic. And I'm assuming you have some stories of people who have found good results from that.
Michael:
Yeah, yeah. And it's, it really is a, and I'm one of those, those people, where I experienced it myself with with using it within my training. And it is such a early state of this building that he had, I'm looking because it's so new, I'm looking for more people to, to work on this and test it out and see how they respond. Because the it's out there, a lot of professional athletes are developing it into their routine, it's becoming more more common for acupuncturist to be on staff of athletic teams. And and I think the more we can incorporate this, the more data we'll get to be able to put it in towards in terms of a Western approach of scientific data to back it up. And at the same time, that's not exactly how this medicine works. It's about individualized people and their individual response to it. So everyone responds differently, and has different measures to go about doing it. And that's where it really becomes a team aspect of working one on one instead of set protocols or a set medication or set nutrition lifestyle that you live. And and in terms of real life examples. It's it's getting in there and individualized aspect of what are you trying to achieve, and then looking at their body and what their habits are, what they've done in their life to get to where they are now. And focusing each treatment based on those specific parameters to first get the low hanging fruit in terms of what can we do right away to get you better results, but then work towards that root cause of what might be causing that stagnation or excess or deficiency, change that with self care and lifestyle changes. And then that's where you start to see these huge changes take place.
Lynn:
Well, one of the things if that individual idea makes me think about, you know, something that in western medicine I think is not necessarily seen as a good thing, but I actually think is a phenomenal thing which is the placebo effect. Meaning Did you read the book suggestible. You are you familiar with that?
Michael:
I'm not doing I'm going to put that on my list or get
Lynn:
that on your list. suggestible. You and I can't remember the author, I'll put it in the show notes. But I read this several years ago, I heard him interviewed the author. And he talks about the placebo effect. And it, I've always, I've always actually thought the placebo effect was a good thing. In other words, if I can take a sugar pill and get rid of a headache, that's better to me than having to take something that's got a more drastic medicine to it to get rid of the headache. In other words, if I can use my own body to heal itself, and my own mind and my own belief, to make myself feel better, that's actually a good thing. And in suggestible, you he actually talks about how the body can actually create its own morphine to create pain relief. So the brain can actually do these things for us. And what strikes me about acupuncture is you work with that system, in a way, so that, you know, now the thing. So I just went off on another topic, let me let me back up. But the thing about that is, if you're working with a system and keeping it maintained, there's not as much profit is there is and selling a bad bunch of pills, or selling a lifelong regimen of medicine. And I obviously, like the maintaining better than the expensive route. But I do feel like we don't have incentives in our system in our big Western system, to help people get better without it being a profit machine for them.
Michael:
I agree with you wholeheartedly, it's it's a system. That is. And it's a system that,
Unknown:
that's,
Michael:
that's challenged right now. And, and because it, a lot of it is based on profits, as opposed to well being. And that brings back to that model of what can be done in a sustainable fashion to, to treat and, and serve the community that you want to serve, and be able to provide to them and then provide back. And, and that's where a whole maintenance aspect of creating this as a lifestyle of, of, of health. And when someone first comes in, it's it's trying to bring them back to that balance, where they are feeling good, and their bodies working the way it is. But naturally, how life works, things get thrown off a balance. So if you can then incorporate a maintenance plan of incorporating these health, healthy acts of going to acupuncture, within your your lifestyle, then it can help keep you within that that healthy aspect. And and you're coming back and providing to the business and the business is providing back to you. And and then you find that sweet spot of how many people can you serve, that will provide you what what you need as a practitioner, and will provide to the community what they need is, is individuals, and there's going to be that area where things actually align. And that might be 100. patients. And, and as those patients fall off new patients come in, or the ones who come in that need more attention, serve more treatments, and that's where that sustainable business model comes in. Right. And and that's something that that I wholeheartedly believe in. And, and and, and I'm presently exploring more of
Lynn:
that. The one thing I do want to say too, is, you know, modern pharmaceuticals have been amazing and life saving. I'm not taking that away. But I think it can go out of balance. Like I think the profit motive, the interesting thing about the profit motive is it does require cash to grow a business. And so there is a level of cash flow that's required. I think what gets in the way is what we talked about earlier is the more more more and the greed factor, which I feel like personally comes from a collective feeling of not being enough. And not recognizing that no matter how much money you make, you're not going to feel enough if that's your problem, that we have to get our feeling of being enough from somewhere else.
Michael:
Definitely, and that that comes into that balanced lifestyle. Oh, yeah. What that excess is wanting more and more, more, more more. But what are you going to use that more for?
Lynn:
And it's not going to get you what you think you're looking for?
Michael:
Not at all. No I've
Lynn:
known I heard Warwick Schiller talking, this is the guy that told you I've interviewed, he's been doing a lot of podcasts with people who are not worse people. And he said, the unfortunate, he said, people are searching for things. Ambition or success, money, love, and health. And, and, and if they, if they're unfortunate enough to get all those things they discovered that's not enough. Otherwise, they're chasing one of those four things, or all of those four things, trying to get them all at once. And I thought, What an interesting way to look at it. Because if we could only see that what we're trying to do is not going to cure the problem we're trying to fix, then maybe we could slow this whole thing down and not have, you know, not be as disruptive as we are to the planet and not be as destructive as we are to each other.
Michael:
Yeah, and it's not up to us, we are to ourselves.
Lynn:
And that's the biggie. That's the big one. Because one of the things that I've really been learning in this journey to get back on the horse, is just how quick in the pursuit of perfection or getting it right, or getting to the goal, how quickly we go to beating ourselves up, like I go to beating myself up. And it's not in my forebrain. I'm not in my direct word thoughts, beating myself up, but it's in the background in a frustrated way, where I'm, like, I'm not saying the words to myself, but it's like, why can't I do this? Why can't I do this? Instead of what's next? What do I need to do to make this work? Instead of you know, in other words, why can't I do this is my rules, using my tools would say, what's next? What's working? What's this telling me? Instead of making it, you know, about myself, so yeah, that beating yourself up? It's the way to keep yourself from changing, I've discovered?
Michael:
Yeah, and that also brings into the point of simplicity is, the more complex we make things, the more challenging they are, and sends us on a rabbit hole of of wanting more and more, more, not even knowing what we want? Yeah. And is there a way to simplify our lives into or our business? Or how we interact with ourselves with others? Is there a way to just keep things simple to then reel it in, in terms of knowing what, what, what's putting us off, or what's making us not feel good, or we're overwhelmed, because I think that's a big issue with our present culture, is there's just too many options, there's too many things to do. And there's not enough time in the day. And, and the internet and, and the aspect of technology has brought too many options to our to our lives, which makes thing, which then monopolizes our time, and we're not able to basically satisfy ourselves because we're never able to get to the end. And is there a way to simplify things? So there that is manageable? And you can feel satisfied within yourself? And, and yeah, I hear a little chuckle going on right now.
Lynn:
I was just thinking about, you know, what happens to me when I have too many options, and how many options we have, like you said, the internet is showing us because we have the ability to see what's going on across the world when our ancestors couldn't. And we can't live a simple life anymore, because there's so much and, and our solution to the complexity is to go buy something else. You know, and so I have way too much stuff around my house. And I'm never gonna probably cure that, because my husband also has a lot of stuff. And he has a lot, we use a lot of our stuff, like we have a lot of tools, but we use them. And so it's kind of hard to argue to get rid of things that you're actually using, but sometimes I do crave a lot more simplicity than I have.
Michael:
And I can wait. And, and being on this podcast, you gave me another book to read. Everyday, everyday. Live. There's another book for me to read. And this list keeps growing. And am I going to read every day, every minute of the hour, and keep getting these books read so when can I say, you know? Nope, that's not that's not a book I want to read or Yeah, I'd be comfortable with myself and not not reading that book. Or, or
Lynn:
or not, not, you know, what I've learned for myself is I don't have to finish every book. I don't have to read every word of every book. I can get the ideas of a book fairly quickly with with a faster, sort of more cursory review and then if I need to dive in, I can dive in and I give myself permission to do that. Because my third grade teacher that told me that you're supposed to read this way. Is it in the room with me anymore?
Michael:
Yeah. And that comes into our upbringing in those early patterns that we develop, then, I think a lot of time become our perfectionist models. Yes. And, and, and that's what we're trying to strive for from a perfection standpoint. And those early patterns may not be what's actually best for us or what we need or what anyone needs.
Lynn:
So very true. Well, yeah, wow. Well, we could dive out, you know, speaking of complexity, now, we've recorded a podcast that we want people to listen to, and I hope they do. I listen to my car. That's my favorite way to listen to podcast, I don't sit around my house listening, I don't have time. But, you know, I just put one in my car. And I like, the longer the better. But I just listened as I go, even if it's a 10 minute drive, and it's better than trying to find a good song on the radio to me. So I cannot tell you how much I have enjoyed this conversation. And we could there's a lot of places we could go, but we won't, because it would be too long for anybody to listen to. And we want people listening totally. So tell me or tell everybody who is listening? How did I find you? And how did they find out more about what you do and if they're in a town where you are you live in?
Michael:
I'm presently in eastern Pennsylvania. And my roots are in San Diego, California. And presently I'm an MS. Easton. And my website is acupuncture athlete.com Oh, I like an acupuncture athlete calm. And I have the same handle on on Instagram. So you can find me in those places. So those are the best two places to find me. And I definitely one of my goals is to build a stronger online presence. And where I am right now in 2021 is is just getting started. But as the months and years go by, I plan on on growing that that that aspect. So if you're seeing that site, now, it's going to look a lot different in in in the next year or two?
Lynn:
Well, the picture I have Michael is that you are going to create a sort of vein of acupuncture practice that other people are going to want to understand and other acupuncturist are going to want to understand. So I look forward to seeing where you take this idea and where you take this ability to help people become better performers. And not just in, in healing, but in also just enhancing their performance and efficiency. So this is pretty accessible. And
Michael:
this has been so much fun.
Lynn:
This has been really fun. So hey, everybody who's listening. If you enjoyed this, share this podcast with other people. That's the way the news happens is for somebody else to hear about it. Also, I love getting your voicemails at Lynn karns comm on the podcast page, there's a little voicemail button to the right, you click that and you can actually leave me a voicemail, I love getting those voicemails. That's one of the ways you can tell me what you want to hear more of. So please do that as well and look forward to seeing you or hearing listening to you on another podcast. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleash podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less of. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.
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