Wrestling With Grief and Loss

Speaker 1 (00:00:02) - Good day, fellas. Welcome to Uncensored Advice for men. today's show, we're going to have a special guest. He's one of my buddies. We're actually in a fitness challenge. And today is varsity wrestling wrestle offs between him and I. we're old, and if you want to see us do get out, let us know. But, Jason Hamilton, welcome to the show, man.

Speaker 2 (00:00:23) - Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here. can't wait for the wrestle off. I didn't know whether I should wear a shirt when I came to this or. Yeah, yeah, the old singlet.

Speaker 1 (00:00:33) - I have my singlet on right now under this. I always have it on just in case.

Speaker 2 (00:00:37) - Yeah, you gotta have you got this glitter sparkles on it or, you know, like the the leotard. Of course, the Borat.

Speaker 1 (00:00:43) - Style is the one that I use when I wrestle. yeah. So Jason Mann, some guy from some guy from the audience was asking some questions. And, I know that you and I've had discussions over some life challenges.

Speaker 1 (00:00:58) - Part of your testimony and some major hurts that you have healed from and are healing from. and I know that we're diving in, and I didn't ask you the question is like, what is off topic that I can't talk about? But, you know, let let let's kind of like take the point. There's a guy in the audience who's hurting. He lost someone that he loves. And you've recently dealt with some grief over a over some loss. And, want to hear your perspective on loss and grief.

Speaker 2 (00:01:27) - Yeah. I think it's probably well known and common knowledge that men don't. Deal with loss or grief. Grieve well, right? when I what I mean by that is our our perception of what grief looks like based on culturally are our experiences. men don't cry, right? They don't share their feelings. And so when you've done that for a large part of your life and you've shoved things down and you've ignored. Crying over whatever it is or feeling emotional because that's wrong. That's not what men do.

Speaker 2 (00:02:03) - You have to show up. You have to be strong. you know, when that when that's been something that's been beat into you when someone loss does happen and we don't know how to do that. we, we often will carry things much longer. I mean, even I think there's men that carry things they've been carrying around their whole life, and it has an impact on their life that they really aren't able to measure because they don't even know that it exists. so, you know, one of the things most recent which I will share personally, right. since we're uncensored, right, I'm willing to share whatever. I'm an open book. You know, I, me and my wife during, the 2020 time frame when all the craziness was going on. we wanted to have a third child, and, we, you know, we tried and, you know, we had two very successful pregnancies. you know, they're always eventful, but I'll say non eventful, right? No issues whatsoever. We have two beautiful young boys, that are, that are ten and eight and, you know, we had a third pregnancy.

Speaker 2 (00:03:15) - We, we God really told me that we were going to have a girl, and, you know, so much so that I even seen visions and dreams and all that kind of stuff that we were going to we were going to have a girl. And, my wife ended up having a miscarriage in October of 2021. And, you know, I didn't I didn't deal with that. Well, that that is something that is a loss. and I felt like, I know I didn't deal with it well because men carry a lot of shame and guilt. Right? Our friend Greg calls it shill. I love that because they kind of come together. And sometimes when we have a loss is we tend to be the hardest on ourselves. And we think, well, this is something that happened to me because I deserved it. Because God is a referee up there blowing the whistle whenever we commit a foul. This was just payback for something that I did. and I just need to accept that. Right.

Speaker 2 (00:04:22) - These are the consequences that were dealt to me because of, you know, addictions to lust or pornography or, you know, you know, multiple women or whatever that is. Things that I've done in my past. Well, this is really just payment for those. Right. And so I need to just suck it up and be strong and move on from that. Well, you don't know it, but that can have I can have a significant impact on. Your life moving forward, how you interact and engage with your with your spouse, how you interact, engage with your children. and just how we see, that person that we've lost or, how we see in this example that I'm giving, I think God was making it very clear to me how I seen unborn children. I mean, in the past when someone would have a funeral for a with a miscarriage. That was strange to me. That was foreign to me. I was like that. I never said this out loud, but I was always like, that's kind of weird, you know? But going through this process of of grieving, you know, God sort of revealed to me that.

Speaker 2 (00:05:36) - You know, he even told me, hey, give give your unborn daughter a name, right? Hazel Marie was the name that God gave me. Give her a name because it's important that you understand that. Culturally, we don't see unborn children as children, and I don't mean to go off on a tangent on a different topic, but but culturally, we don't see unborn children as children because we don't give them a name. and so God very clearly told me that I should give our unborn child a name. And for the longest time, Josh, I, I carried this, this shill, package around, and I put it in the basement, stacked it under some stuff and said, that's I'm gonna leave that there. Right. But it just constantly kept coming up in me like this anger, this frustration, this disappointment in myself. This distrust now that I had with my Heavenly Father. It hindered my relationship with my spouse, my children. It was also hindering my my relationship with Jesus.

Speaker 2 (00:06:44) - So I was like, why would you show me all this stuff? Right? And then this happened. I mean, true story. And in a dream, I was having a dream while my wife was having a miscarriage. I was delivering a healthy baby girl and I did not even know that she was having a miscarriage at the time. And so, in my mind, in the way that I was culturally built, the way that my brain was wired by the perspective of the world that we live in, is is all that was being done to me as punishment. For something that I did right. This is what you could have had, right? But this is the result because of what you've done. And it couldn't be further from the truth on how the gospel of Jesus Christ operates, right? He's not asking us to. We've got to work and and become our own gods and climb these mountains. He comes down from the mountain, right? He. He went in our place, you know, as a sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (00:07:43) - We don't have to earn that love, right? We can't repay it. And so in when we're dealing with loss and grief, I would highly encourage men to also. Grieve, right, but also deal with the lie that it's not your fault. Whatever happened? I mean, we heard a story a few weeks ago, Josh, about a guy that lost his daughter in a car accident, and he carried that around, blaming himself that that was his fault. Or maybe that was some type of payment that that he deserved. And so. First and foremost. My experience up to this point in my faith journey is God doesn't work that way, right? if he did, we are all in some big trouble. I'm screwed. Dude. Like, yeah, yeah, we are all screwed, right? And so, you know, we could back that up scripturally too. But, you know, it's it's one of those things where I have found and loss and grief that the guilt, the shame and guilt is never more louder.

Speaker 2 (00:08:52) - When? I lose something like a family member or an unborn child, or a brother or sister or cousin, uncle, aunt, a friend, a brother, somebody that's close to me. When I lose something like that, there's there's no voice that tends to be louder than the voice, the shame and guilt voice. And so, identifying that first is important.

Speaker 1 (00:09:20) - I've got a question, ma'am. Yeah. So that that voice, the guilt, the shame, the Scheldt, the, You're not worthy. The all of these things that for me, man, that that there's no louder voice in that. Especially at 330 in the morning or when I'm trying to go to bed, like, for some reason that's 330 is my alarm clock. If if I'm getting attacked by some voice, what is that voice? What is where does that come from? What is it? How do you know that that is. How do you. How do you know where to identify that voice?

Speaker 2 (00:09:53) - Yeah. so, yeah, just the baseline.

Speaker 2 (00:09:56) - I mean, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. That's where really I just foundationally would baseline where that voice comes from. Right. And so any shame and guilt is direct condemnation, from the enemy of our souls that wants to capitalize on that opportunity at that time of when we're feeling our worst. Those voices. There's no mistake that they become louder. because, you know, if you're if you've ever played sports, right, you look for your enemies weakness, and you're never more vulnerable than you are to be taken out when, when you're dealing with loss. And so, that voice I don't believe largely is our own, and I don't believe it comes from our creator, obviously, either. And so there can only be one that it could be coming from. And I think it's the enemy of our souls. It's it's Satan and his demonic goons that are trying to capitalize on an opportunity when we're at our weakest.

Speaker 1 (00:11:00) - Yeah. So there's probably some dudes in the audience who might not have similar beliefs in terms of like Satan and his goons and, and, and or maybe even a creator or AI heavenly father.

Speaker 1 (00:11:11) - Right. when we, when we approach this, like, how do we know if it's not just self-talk? So let's just put ourselves in the perspective of a guy out there who doesn't believe in God. Yeah, experience the loss. Partner, family member, whatever. Fill in the blank. And all of this guilt and shame or negative self-talk or or anger, I'm trying to stuff it down, like, like is there is there something we could say to that dude? Yeah, that might take him off the edge of the bridge.

Speaker 2 (00:11:43) - Yeah, man. I, I went through this book. I got actually got it on my shelf here. It's called The Craving Brain, but it's really about addicts. But it really ties, the close relationship between both, the spiritual and physical element of of, of our health. And so there is a physical aspect, and I think when we, when we, when we deal with those thoughts during that time, a loss, there's also a biological aspect to it that there is a wiring in our brain, that was built to respond to certain situations based on how we perceive the world.

Speaker 2 (00:12:27) - Our interactions within that world. Things that have been done to us in our past. how we've how we have, witnessed. Others grieve with loss, right? If our earthly fathers right, our earthly mothers or uncles or fatherly type figures are how we've seen them deal with loss can have an impact. And so, largely the the neural pathways that we've built in our brain during times of loss are mechanisms, biologically that our body does to try to protect us. And so it's our brain says, shut that down. Don't feel that way. Because if you do your it hurts. Right. And if if you send a nerve so many times right, it'll stop feeling because you've, you've damaged the the neural pathways there. And so as we shove that stuff down, our body's natural way of protecting itself is to build that callus to, to not feel right to not to not allow yourself to be exposed to those feelings because, our, our body naturally is saying, hey, I need to I need to wall that off.

Speaker 2 (00:13:48) - Right? I need to isolate that and to protect you from feeling that way. And so those things get built. They don't get built overnight in our first experience of loss, I mean, when you're a little little child that first starts walking and someone takes your toy, you have no problem sharing emotion. Every one of us, we don't remember it. But I have two little boys. Neither of them had any issues expressing emotion externally. It's only until they get older, until you've experienced some life and taken some hits, that the callus gets built up and you've been told, hey, we're not going to talk about that, right? You know, I've heard of friends that family members, you know, their parents past, they live with a adoptive family. And the adoptive family was like, hey, we're not going to talk about that because it's too painful, right? And so let's shove that down. Yeah, that's not cool with that. So how does that set you up? For future.

Speaker 2 (00:14:47) - Exposure to loss.

Speaker 1 (00:14:48) - Well, drop it down, dude.

Speaker 2 (00:14:50) - Shove it, hide it. It's my fault, right? Yeah, I just. I just. I just need to work hard or do better. Yeah, and distract myself.

Speaker 1 (00:15:00) - You know, I'll go. I'll go off and I'll distract myself, or I'll chase some type of dopamine hit, or I'll pour some liquid on top of it or smoke it away. Try to, you know, puff it away. And, grief. Grief hurts. Loss hurts. these kind of things are pain. So flip side. Right. We talk about this like, what are what have you found is a healthy way that you found healing in your own journey or are finding healing in your own journey.

Speaker 2 (00:15:33) - Yeah. I mean, there's obviously the spiritual aspect that I mentioned. you know, there's the. There is lending yourself obviously redemptive community of men. Josh like what we we've experienced and have like every guy needs another guy. They need a I call it the small circle.

Speaker 2 (00:15:56) - Right? Not everybody needs to know your junk. Right now. You don't. The whole world doesn't need to know your junk. Now, there's testimonies out there that are great, and it's very powerful when the whole world knows that. But you need 1 to 3 guys in your camp. That you can share anything with. and, you know, having that, having that community of, of a smaller setting of guys that you trust. That you can be your most vulnerable with without fear of judgment or, you know, any of that kind of stuff. has has it would definitely be helpful. I think also looking back. At your story and thinking to yourself. Hey. Why why why don't why am I so inclined to just ignore this or shut people out? Because they are. They've hurt me. Or, When when when I do experience loss. What? Why am I so quick to go to the the dopamine hit? You know, just just having self-reflection. Right. Why do I respond to a certain situation? you know, it's that's a great orientation concept.

Speaker 2 (00:17:13) - If you're lost in the woods, you need to have a frame of reference. Right? If it's the moss on the north side of the trees, or if it's, you know, which directions the sun come up and go down or, you know, whatever it is, if you're going to navigate out of the woods, you've got to have a frame of reference or you're just going to keep walking in circles. So having frame of reference is important.

Speaker 1 (00:17:37) - So powerful, dude. so I'm thankful for this. And I know that this is one of many of of chats that you and I have had about this topic. And we just happen to say, you know what? We should record this and share it with the world. Right? But, one of the things that you say is a redemptive community of of men. you and I have experienced this. You have 237 notebooks to prove it, that you carry along.

Speaker 2 (00:18:05) - A stack of notebooks.

Speaker 1 (00:18:06) - You carry those notebooks with you at every single event, man.

Speaker 1 (00:18:09) - Just. Yeah, you're the man. But why don't you kind of, Why don't you kind of share what what you and I have experienced with maybe our. Our warrior tribe. And then, then we got to wrap up and, you know, maybe eight minutes or so.

Speaker 2 (00:18:25) - Yeah. So you're talking about the, the Council of Men that we've sort of put together on coming together and, and knowing each other's story and, you know, understanding that these are men that we can trust. Right? I think we all have a story. And so, you know, having that that warrior group that we're building, and knowing each man's story. His has been so powerful just because. Mint. We think we're alone, right? If. If you. One of those voices that we didn't talk about is you're in this alone, and you're the only one that experiences this and has has these feelings. And that is a very loud voice as well. And so in some of our experiences with this word accounts that we've gone through and had men share their testimonies just on, hey, from boyhood on up to where you are now, what happened to you? You know what I mean? What what trenches did you crawl through? And, you know, barbed wire, did you crawl over and all that kind of stuff, and mountains? Did you climb? And, hearing that guy's story, you're going to you're going to get resonance where, oh, my gosh, that guy has gone through the same stuff that I have.

Speaker 2 (00:19:44) - Similar things, different things that maybe I can learn from. But also our stories aren't that much different. When you break it down on the things that we do or don't do and why we do or don't do those things. And so that's been my experience with this council that we've this warrior council that's, that's getting kicked off is, hey, we're not so much unique in the, in the, in, in the generalization of the common things that men experience. Yeah. Which those very things that. You know, keeps us in a place of, of of isolation, which is. No, you're the only one that deals with that. You're the only one that deals with addiction to pornography. You're the only one that struggles with having too many drinks. I mean, that's just a you problem, right? or whatever it is, you know, trying to be the the, c, you know, the c whatever it is, you can, you can get a dopamine hit from many various different things.

Speaker 2 (00:20:46) - And so thinking you're alone in that is certainly something that having this warrior tribe, this warrior council that we have has been a great springboard to, you know, building a group of men that we can trust.

Speaker 3 (00:20:59) - Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:21:00) - And I think if the if the dudes in the audience want to check out, you know, the, the redemptive community that were, you know, that you and I support as a, as a ministry for for men, you know, there's some great resources, but the the group is called Zoe and they could find that at z o w e h I think it's org. Right. I think that's the one. And the book recommendation probably kind of getting started. If you're dude out there and you're, you're wanting to kind of like see the, the first kind of touch to see if this is, you know, maybe a community you need, there's a book called heart of a warrior. I'm one of the, the oldest. I am the oldest warrior in the tribe.

Speaker 1 (00:21:42) - But I have a warrior heart. And, I love being in the in the group. And, so, like, if that's for you guys, like, if you're a dude out there and you. And you need that, if you can't afford it, let me know. I'll buy you one. if you can't afford it, go buy ten of them. Jason, as we as we wrap up today's chat, man, I love your transparency. I love your testimony, I love you, and, any any shout outs to to, someone, someone special or dude you want to mess with before we say goodbye?

Speaker 2 (00:22:14) - well, I will say that Enoch, would, you know, if he could learn how to play the guitar? That would be. You know, that'd be really helpful for me. because, you know. Yeah. And then obviously, Josh, go Braves, right? I mean, no, he's a big Red Sox fan, so, yeah, we want to give him some hell.

Speaker 2 (00:22:34) - And by the way. with this challenge we have going on Josh Wilson. yeah, I came I came in way under today.

Speaker 3 (00:22:44) - Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:22:45) - You know, not to give you not to give you two out of a time, but I was like, whoa, dude, I am freaking. I don't know what happened, but I melted some pounds this week.

Speaker 3 (00:22:53) - Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:22:54) - I did not because you're not.

Speaker 2 (00:22:56) - In my weight class anymore, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (00:22:58) - Yeah, I'm gonna have to cut off a leg to wrestling now, but we could still work towards it. dudes out there in the audience and our fellow warriors and council members of of the tribe and the the friends that we share in the men that are devoted to building other men's lives. All you pastors, men's ministry, all you leaders out there who support dudes, family readiness groups and chaplains and all, all you guys out there who support hearts. Men, we love you. And we're thankful for you dudes out there. You're not alone.

Speaker 1 (00:23:27) - If you ever need something, head on over to Uncensored Advice for men. Com fill out a quick form and we'll get you plugged in to someone who could help you or provide some resources to you. We love you and we'll see you all on the next episode later.