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Welcome to Season 3 of The Cocktail Guru Podcast!
Oct. 6, 2022

S2 E1 - Cheers to the Brewmaster with Kelsey Grammer

On this episode of THE COCKTAIL GURU PODCAST, celebrated actor Kelsey Grammer chats about life as—and life beyond—comedy television's beloved and longest-running character, Dr. Frasier Crane, and transforming a property in upstate New York's Catskill Mountains into Faith American Brewing Company with hosts Jonathan & Jeffrey Pogash. This episode was sponsored in part by Bodega Lustau and introduces Kelsey's new venture, Faith American Brewing company. Plus two new spirited segments—Tipple Time and Top Off—make their series debut! brought to you by the Perfect Purée of Napa Valley, and Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao.

On this episode of THE COCKTAIL GURU PODCAST, celebrated actor Kelsey Grammer chats about life as—and life beyond—comedy television's beloved and longest-running character, Dr. Frasier Crane, and transforming a property in upstate New York's Catskill Mountains into Faith American Brewing Company with hosts Jonathan & Jeffrey Pogash. This episode was sponsored in part by Bodega Lustau and introduces Kelsey's new venture, Faith American Brewing company. Plus two new spirited segments—Tipple Time and Top Off—make their series debut! brought to you by the Perfect Purée of Napa Valley, and Pierre Ferrand Dry Curaçao.



Bitter Brew (2020) (

So Far... (1995) (


Press & Media

"Frasier Sequel Starring Kelsey Grammer Picked Up To Series At Paramount+" - Deadline (October 4, 2022) (

"Frasier Revival Officially Ordered at Paramount+ with Kelsey Grammer—But Will the Rest of the Cast Be Back? - TVLine (October 4, 2022) (

"Frasier Star Kelsey Grammer Reflects on Launching Faith American Brewing Company: 'It's no accident'" - FOX Business (September 5, 2021) (

"Cheers! Kelsey Grammer Opens Faith American Brewery Taproom in the Catskills" - New York Upstate (September 5, 2019) (


THE COCKTAIL GURU PODCAST is produced by 1st Reel Entertainment and distributed by EatsDrinksTV, a service of the Center for Culinary Culture—Home of The Cocktail Collection, and is available wherever fine podcasts can be heard. The Center for Culinary Culture—Telling the Story of Food & Drink…One Taste at a Time.


In this episode's Tipple Time Jonathan creates the Fall Shandy.

Ferrand Dry Curacao + PP Mango Passion

Fall Shandy
1 oz. Ferrand Dry Curacao
1 oz. Perfect Puree mango passion
Top w/ Beer of choice
METHOD: Build directly into a tall beer glass and stir briefly.
GARNISH: fresh herb








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Jonathan Pogash: Welcome to the Cocktail Guru Podcast, a show

Jeffrey Pogash: about food, drink, and

Jonathan Pogash: entertainment with a tight focus on the good life and

Jeffrey Pogash: all things delicious, luxurious,

Jonathan Pogash: and fun. I'm Jonathan Pash, bartender, author, TV personality and founder of The Cocktail Guru.

Jeffrey Pogash: And I'm Jeffrey Pash, wnet Spirits Professional. Insatiable collector of culinary ephemera, and so people tell me an engaging

Jonathan Pogash: and my dad,

The House of Lu Style's Solaris standout returns to the US to encourage our friends from the beverage community stronger and renewed to join them again. You can submit your recipe from now until December 11th. Enter the Solera Hall of Fame and win a grand cash prize and a full week internship at Lu out in Head f Spain.

Uh, Dad, John, welcome to our season two premier.

Jeffrey Pogash: Wow, this is very exciting. I can't believe we made it through season

Jonathan Pogash: one. How was your high, How was your hiatus? I think that's what they call it. That's they call hiatus was

Jeffrey Pogash: fantastic. Suning myself on the beaches of, uh, Hawaii and Oh

Jonathan Pogash: wow. Why didn't you invite me, Monica?

Jeffrey Pogash: Well, I will the next time. Don't worry. Okay. But I couldn't be more excited about the second season, but especially about today's interview because you know how excited I get when we have celebrity guests on the show, especially when they're from the world of television, film, and theater. As is the case with our next guest, Well, there's good reason for my excitement.

I have been watching television since I was five years old. You. The first show I ever watched was Farmer Alfalfa, a black and white cartoon, which aired at five o'clock in the morning, and I just got hooked from that moment on. But let's fast forward a bit to age 14. This is all relevant information I'm giving you today.


Jonathan Pogash: glad. I'm glad. I was wondering, I have to go. I was wondering where you were going with this, but I'd

Jeffrey Pogash: have to go into this before we introduce our guests. Let's fast forward to age 14 when my family and I took a trip to California. We visited San Francisco, Yosemite and Sequoia National Parks. They were fantastic.

But the highlight of the trip, the highlight of this trip was Los Angeles where we were given a private tour of the MGM Studios in Culver City. Now known as I believe Sony Pictures Studio. It was, it was there that I watched the filming of my favorite Martian. That was one of my all time favorite shows.

And I was able to meet and shake hands with the stars of the show. Ray Walton and Bill Bixby, Bill Bby went on to Star, of course, in the courtship of Eddie's father and eventually, The Incredible Hulk. Eventually, that experience was the thrill of a lifetime, but I'm happy to report that the thrill is not gone because today we are very lucky to have an extra special guest on our podcast, A six time Emmy Award winner, who's also a three time Golden Globe winner, a Screen Actor's Guild Award winner and winner of two Tony Awards.

Um, I am just thrilled. He is probably best known for his role as Dr. Frazier Crane in the hit television series. Cheers. And then in the hit television series, of course, Frazier. And I'm referring to the star of stage, screen and television, Mr. Kelsey Grammar. And now we have another title to add. To his curriculum, Vita, and that is brewmaster because he owns a brewery called Faith American.

So welcome Kelsey

Kelsey Grammer: Grammar. Thank you guys. Thank you.

Jonathan Pogash: Wow. This is, this is outstanding. And, uh, thank you for that, uh, soliloquy dad. Uh, it was, it was amazing. But I, I love hearing about your, uh, your childhood. Um, I mean, having Kelsey Grammar on the Cocktail Guru podcast is a huge honor and, uh, Kelsey. All of our guests, we always ask them one question before we get into the, um, the nitty gritty, the the meat potatoes of each episode.

Um, Mr. Kelsey Grammar, what is your desert island drink? So if you're stranded on a desert island, what would you want to have? In your hand?

Kelsey Grammer: Well, honestly, probably coconut water . Oh, okay. Yes. That's great. It seems to make the most sense. It might be actually something I could find there. So .

Jeffrey Pogash: Well, it's one of my favorites too.

Oh yeah.

Kelsey Grammer: Deeply practical as I can about, Yeah.

Jonathan Pogash: Very good. I love that. So you would climb up, you would climb up the tree, you would grab the coconut? Yes. See, I would, yes. Presumably you, you might have, well no tools on there, so you would just slam it on the, on the ground and you would

Kelsey Grammer: open it some. Probably chip off some, whatever tool I can fashion the rudimentary basics

Jonathan Pogash: Well, um, we're, we're sampling your beer, uh, Kelsey Faith American, and it is delicious.

This is the faith blue. It's, it's really, really good.

Kelsey Grammer: Thank you.

Jeffrey Pogash: Thank you. It, it was rich, it was smooth, it was eminently drink. It was a delicious ipa. Thank you. Delicious. So please tell us something about the brewery and how you, how it got started.

Kelsey Grammer: Our third flavor in the batch, um, um, of the bunch Rather, We, um, about 30 years ago, I bought a property and upstate New York and.

It was New York, Kingston, New York, where I used to go to spend Thanksgivings with my grandfather and his best pal, uh, Bill Cardell. And, uh, he lived on a little place that was called Copperhead Mountain Farm. And, uh, that was, uh, it was a very cool place for me to go when I was a boy. And, uh, I was raised by my Granddad Gordon.

So, uh, it held and continues to hold a very dear place in my heart. And, uh, as soon as I had enough money to actually buy something like a, a piece of. I looked to the Catskills, cuz that's sort of what I was familiar with. And I found this little property outside of, uh, it's, it's, it's about 40 minutes past Woodstock and then, and maybe 45 minutes from Kingston.

And, uh, I fell in love with it. I actually chartered a helicopter. I was staying in the Hamptons and, uh, I, I pretty much bought it the minute I saw it. And, uh, ever since then I've been, you know, spending summers there with my family. And, uh, the. About 12 years ago, I took my wife Kate there. She was not my wife at the time.

And I guess it was, it was sort of a test, I suppose. I, I said, um, come up and spend some time with me and my favorite place in the world, , and came down a buddies and she said, Thank you for this place. And that was all I needed to hear. And she's been, uh, a key element of the reason I enjoy it, uh, today, But, About eight years ago, a a continuous piece of land that I'd always sort of fancied and prized, uh, came up for sale and I bought it.

And on that piece of land is an old barn. Uh, uh, it was a dairy farm years ago. It was also one of the largest coal fire farms on the east coast in the seventies. Half the people that still live in Margaretville, which is where we're. We'll say, Oh yeah, I used to pack, uh, cauliflower, I punts up there when I was a kid back in high school.

So there's some, uh, some real history there with, with the community. But this barn, I thought, what am, I'm not gonna be a dairy farmer. I'm just, you know, not gonna do cows twice a day to both my entire life of being there, cuz I actually am still an actor. So I started to think about beer and. The possibilities of brewing there.

The water in, um, the water in upstate or is, uh, sorry for that. Something just came through. Um, so the water up there is fantastic. Bubbles out of the ground. You can just drink it. It's the cleanest water in the world. It all goes down to New York City. This is the issue that came up after that. Anyway, I, I decided I was gonna try to brew beer there.

Yeah. What, what happened was I ended up putting a company together that was gonna be a, a brewing company, and we were gonna brew cat. And then we found out that because it's the watershed, I couldn't use the water. Now there is a law, the books in New York, that you can use the water if it's on your land.

However, that was. Uh, what's the word? Uh, ended basically by what they called the Watershed Act of 1990. Which I was aware of at the time, however, . Um, so I had to kind of, uh, improvise and come up with some other ideas. And so my contract brew now with a couple of companies outside of Albany. Um, the sort of the ti head of the, of the, of the company, of, of the brewery itself, the legacy of it is centered around the land there that I.

And, uh, the actual functional brewing is, is, is done off premise at this point. We have a little tavern up there. You are welcome to visit, but, uh, we we're not open very much. It's, uh, sort of a seasonal thing and we don't people yet. So this is what we're doing. We're selling in Atlantic City. We're selling in, um, Buffalo, New York.

So from Buffalo to Cape May. Basically the beer is available. Uh, haven't got full distribution yet. No, but we were actually working on it and, uh, we have some great promising relationships starting out. Some of the distributors we working with, we introduced our first flavor about a year two, well, about two and a half years ago, Uh, just before, uh, February of, uh, 19 of, of 2020.

And, um, Wow. The

Jonathan Pogash: timing, Huh? .

Kelsey Grammer: So, uh, it was February, 2020 and, uh, five days later they announced that, uh, well, actually no. When I was there, they announced, this is in Las Vegas. They announced that, uh, the, uh, the, the. March Madness was not gonna be held there anymore. Yeah. In Vegas. So that sent a beer business.

I planned it in my head. I thought, well let's open up in Las Vegas. We'll have people come from all over the world and say, Gosh, we love this beer. Let's get it where we live. And then someone would come to me and say, We need your beer everywhere. Yeah. Well that didn't quite happen, so I thought, I'm not gonna freak out about it.

Cause we haven't opened up yet. Really? We we're not like even on the market. I pulled back, I retooled a little bit and I thought once introduced two new flavors. So I came with a more of a traditional ipa, a little more West Coast ipa, uh, Amber, and, and has a nice little sort of bite and a little, um, dry hopping at the end, which gives it some, some, um, that more traditional sort of, uh, IPA value.

And then the next flavor, which was just patched late January this year, is the, the New England Blue Haz. And, uh, so that's been really popular. Very good. But they, they love that hazy on the East coast, so Yeah. That really could've been flying up the shell. They do The first flavor is Yale, is is the American, and that happens to be my favorite.

Cause that's kinda the,

Jeffrey Pogash: I think it was the blue hazy that we were tasting. Yeah.

Jonathan Pogash: It's a good beer. Kelsey, where, where did the interest, where did the interest in, um, beer and brewing beer

Kelsey Grammer: come from? Oh, well actually it's all cause of the land. It's the land that, that barn land. Yeah. Just so you know what, what can we do that reflects our love of this place and, uh, a desire to return the land prosperity and hopefully involve the community and something they can look to and be proud of as well.

And, You know, we, we haven't, you know, finished our, our dream yet. We haven't fulfilled our goals yet, but, um, there is, that has actually started to happen. And so all the beers are, rather than being, you know, the, the kit you kind of, uh, um, tray and craft brewing now is, you know, it's, it's sort of funny insider kind of stuff, you know.

Goose, your buddy, or, you know, screw your pal or, you know, whatever, you know, fat this, fat that, uh, fear. And I just thought I'd rather, I'd rather kind of try to reflect our love of land and our, our love of history and our love of America, and my daughter's name happens to be. So, it, several things kind of came together at the same time, but there's no, uh, mistake that it's, it's called Faith American.

I mean, I, I love America. I loved. Everything we're capable of doing. I love the fact that we are, you know, always sort of in process and figuring out what the hell we are from, from generation to generation. But, uh, I, I believe in this country and I believe in good beer. So it, it sort of, it just became a good marriage.

I was not a beer maker in my head. I'm still not really a brewer. I, I, I give notes to guys who are great booers and I say, I'd like to try. Is that something we can do? And then they'll look at me and think, Yeah, yeah, we can try that. Uh, or they'll say, Oh, you know, we did something like that a while ago, as a lot of guys like to do that.

Oh yeah. Did something just like that back when, uh, you know, back and wars.

Okay, fine. I understand. And then they, um, they'll, they'll come up with something and then we talk about it. And how do I want it to taste what's, what's the profile I'm looking for? And, Then we'll try a brew. Now some of the guys don't want actually brew something without me paying for it. So I've spent a lot of money just trying some stuff and throwing away quite a bit of stuff.

Yeah, sure. But, uh, to me it's worth it. I don't want it to be, I don't want anybody have a, a taste of beer that isn't beer that really like, and so I like the beer I'm selling. Uh, it's certainly possible that somebody won't think it's your greatest beer in the world. But there are moments when I'll have a sip of the a or of.

Any one of them, depending upon what food I'm eating with them. And I don't think that's the best beer I ever had, so I'm very happy. .

Jeffrey Pogash: Well, as a, as a great beer lover, I can say these are tremendous beers. They're absolutely delicious. They are three in the line right now, correct? Yeah. Faith American Ale, Faith, American Blue Hazy and Calco Man.

Yeah, man.

Kelsey Grammer: Calco Man is, is based upon, uh, this is part of the idea about the history. Um, The hillside to me looks like kco during the fall. Mm-hmm. , it's not supposed to be a seasonal beer and so I'm little confused. I may actually kind rebrand it a little bit, maybe change the, know it have less of a seasonal flare about the design.

But when I saw the hillside one day in full color, like October, October 7th, it's always around October 7th where I am. Cause it gets cold faster there. Uh, it was reminded me of a. The Calco man, uh, inspiration is from a group of people called the Calco Indians, who in 1845 staged a rebellion in, uh, Delaware County, in upstate New York, uh, because of the rent they were forced to pay, um, for land that they've been farming for a long time.

And then what happened was the families that owned that land hadn't paid their taxes. So 30 years in arrears suddenly got passed onto the people who were farming the. And, uh, because they couldn't pay it, they took all their stuff and the sheriffs were sent in to seize all their property and sell it at auction.

So, to stop this, to rebel against it, the Kaco Indians or Kaco Man is like to call them, uh, wore outfits of Calico, which was a newly imported material from India that their wives were wearing for aprons and using it around the house and. They dressed themselves up looking like what they thought was their best rendition of sort of primitive savages and there's some pretty scary looking pictures.

And they went and round raids and burned down a couple of barns and, and, uh, tormented theary bit. And then finally one guy was shot and his name was, uh, Osman Steel. And, uh, he's very famous for having said at the taverns a drinking tavern in Andy's New York the night before his death. That lead would never pierce.

Sure enough, they shot on the next day. .

Jeffrey Pogash: Oh my

Kelsey Grammer: goodness. Guys were sentenced prison. Uh, they were sent all a federal crime. They were sent to several different federal, uh, prisons around the country. And one of them was sent to a place in Illinois and uh, it happened to be just nearby town called Springfield.

And it turned out that he, uh, secured, um, some, uh, what's the word? Services from a young lawyer named Abraham Lincoln. Oh wow. And, and Abraham Lincoln. And this man ended up being partners basically, and starting the Republican. So it's kinda, it's, it's got a lot of history. .

Jonathan Pogash: That's a great story. That's a great

Jeffrey Pogash: race story.

Who was Theon? I remember hearing

Kelsey Grammer: about that. Was was the, the, the guy that owned the land who's, when he finally died, he never asked him for any, He never asked if farmer rent. He, you know, Come on, I got so much land here. I don't even go there. Uh, let them use it. It was his children when he died that were told they owed a ton of, Of government , the US government who had decided it was probably wisdom to go ahead and let the people that own the land before the revolution keep the land.

So that's what happened. Thousands of acres of, of, of land that had been deeded or given as royal gifts from the King of England, from the King of Denmark, from Holland, The Dutch were very, very influential there. That's why the name. Sure. They weren't just, they were allowed to keep their land as long as they would actually pay a little tax

So that didn't happen. And, uh, they had caused some trouble. But, uh, about two years later, they were, uh, all the guys that had been sent to jail were actually there sentences were, uh, uh, lifted and, uh, commuted. And, uh, they, uh, were allowed to go back to their homes and start to do some farming.

Jonathan Pogash: I have to, I have to say that, um, Kelsey, you are quite a storyteller.

Um, and, and I can only imagine, you know what it would be like sitting around a campfire and enjoying your beer and hearing hearing stories told by you because it is absolutely amazing to hear.

Kelsey Grammer: Well, someday, maybe we can just do the, it's a great property, hundred acres up there, and it's. It's, you know, it's not a giant piece of land, but it's a, it's, it's, it's enough for us and it's a lovely place and it inspires a lot of ideas from,

Jeffrey Pogash: While we're here with you, Kelsey, can we mention the Fraser

Kelsey Grammer: reboot?

Sure, sure. We're, uh, we're just, we were just, we're dealing with some notes this, uh, just yesterday from the, the studio and uh, from the network, which is paramount plus sort of my home. Actually, I worked on paramount lot. 35 years, I guess, off and on. And, uh, it's, uh, it's looking pretty good. We have some, we have some hurdles to go through cause we actually have, you know, we ended up in a situation where some of the legacy cast didn't wanna return, so we said, Okay, great.

Got it. Understood. So, in a weird way, it's as though they've offered us a world that's a complete, a completely new phrase, a completely third act, which we, I'm very excited about. So we've got some, some fun ideas I can't share with you at this moment, but, uh, I think, uh, they'll be, we'll be seeing something on TV pretty

Jeffrey Pogash: soon.

So, the trailer that I saw is an accurate or somewhat accurate depiction of what

Kelsey Grammer: dear God. No, it's, it's,

Jeffrey Pogash: is it just an attention grabber?

Kelsey Grammer: So I dunno. A film student's like fun idea. What, what it, what might it be like, or, I have no idea who's responsible for it. It's, it's, it's crap

respect for pouring it to that, coming up with an idea that, uh, they, they found enough, uh, footage to reflect what they thought they wanted to see. Um, it's pretty much all of my performance from. From Boss. The show I did after Fraser, my, I mean I did, I did another sitcom for a while. I did a sitcom called Hank.

I did sitcom, Called Back to You with Patty Heaton. The heat was pretty good show. Uh, but the writers went on strike. We were like three shows it. We thought what doing? And, uh, they said, Oh, that's the best thing I've ever done. I, I have no idea if it had ever ended up making any money for him, but we lost that show as a result.

And the show Hank beforehand, uh, it just wasn't funny. You know, just funny, you know,

Jonathan Pogash: I tried that. Did you know that, That's an interesting point. Did you, did you know while you were, you know, I know a lot of actors while they're doing it, they, they might think to themselves, I'm not really sure if this is gonna work.

Or was it, you know, afterwards when you were watching or when you saw reactions to it that you were like, Eh, it's not that funny.

Kelsey Grammer: Oh, you go ahead with your best, uh, with the most hopeful frame of mind you can. And, uh, in that case, um, when we were pitch show was a young writer who was he pretty, The ideas pitch.

Well, there's an idea. I think that work, were a little wrapped up in the phenomenon of the 2008 crash. About how suddenly everybody who'd been sort of successful didn't have a career anymore and they had to kind of old freak out and find a way to get through things. And, uh, I'm not so sure that was a big slice of American interest at the time, suffering equally and, uh, tried to care about the fact that somebody who used to be rich wasn't rich anymore.

So they wanted to watch, I dunno. Yeah, it just needed to be funnier. Honestly. The guy was doing his best to, uh, keep his family together. That seemed like a good idea for, for a sitcom. But, um, the writing was, uh, stylistically a little more like everybody loves Raymond. Well, uh, Raymond does that, Well, that wasn't my my should take my ball wax, I guess, or whatever.

I dunno. Um, it wasn't my thing and didn't, didn't, it didn't quite resonate. And when we were it, I mean, I remember I called the president of Warner at Lovely guy. Fantastic conversation. I just said, Look, we'd just finished the show the night before and I think it was the 11th show that we shot. And I said, When can we put a bullet in this thing?

Hmm. And he said, Oh gosh, we got orders from overseas, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We have to at least fulfill the third, first 13. And a day later, a phone call came from the president of ABC saying, No, let's not go any further with this. Wow. I said, Oh, hallelujah. And the neck. Honestly, an hour later I got a phone call from a producer on Broadway, Barry Weiser, and he.

Are you free to fly, fly over to England and see a show we've been producing over there that we wanna bring over called Laka? And I said, uh, as a matter of fact, I, yeah, , that changed my life. That's amazing. That's,

Jeffrey Pogash: I am so happy you mentioned that because I was looking for a way to get into a discussion about that if you, In 1983, I went to the Palace Theater.

And I saw a show called Black Casual Fo. Oh, with George, Her and Gene Barry. Yes, of course. Yeah. It was absolutely fantastic. And then I was thrilled when I saw the revival of you as the lead, You and the Douglas Hodge as the lead. And I've been pouring over tapes. The revival of that casual and it is absolutely fantastic and I don't know how many people out there realize you have a beautiful singing voice.


Kelsey Grammer: thank you.

Jeffrey Pogash: I know you studied Aard people

Kelsey Grammer: more kinda the understanding. Oh, yes. He does sing as well, but it's actually how I started. I started. Just inquire. When I was 14 years old, a guy who came in said, I wanna, every guy had every boy in this class to come in and sing for me. I'm gonna put you in a choir.

And we were like, Oh, yeah, Right. Then half of us showed up and tried, and several of us got on this little, uh, music program with, with his man, Richard Mitten was his name, and, uh, and started me toward a, a, a career. In, in performing. I wasn't, uh, I wasn't really keen on doing anything other than surfing at the time, but, uh, the scene opened up a door for me and, uh, I didn't think I'd be an opera singer, which is where my, my voice coach at the time thought I could go and, uh, So we, we departed on that and I thought, I think this acting thing might be better

Jonathan Pogash: And what was, um, Kelsey, what was the role, uh, that you got early on where you were like, Okay, wow, I have this role. This is amazing. I think, I think I'm gonna be okay. .

Kelsey Grammer: Okay. That role was, um, Cigar smoking, uh, southern gentleman called Ben Hubbard in a show called Little Foxes Byman. I, years, Olded

was an extraordinary experience. I went really well, and it was a, I, I discovered that this was, this was something I, I think was a passion. I didn't know I had. I mean, I loved Shakespeare at the time. I did read all the. So I, I guess I was qualified without knowing I was, but my love of language and then this ability to just kind of loan myself to the emotion or to the fantasy of a writer and, and fill it was, uh, Sort of the ticket, my ticket out, I guess you

Jeffrey Pogash: could say.

And you were in another, uh, revival that I love. Um, in 1965, I went to another Broadway show with my parents at the an Washington Square Theater, and it was called Man of Lamancha. Oh yeah. With Richard Kylie and Joan Deaner. And I know that you were a revival in London, Man

Kelsey Grammer: of la. Always wanted loved.

Richard was a of mine. Really, I'd. Know Hollywood days that were, you know, like sort, oh, Oscar night at some party or, or me, you know, scene there some, some charity thing. Uh, he was just such a and so lovely. I remember hearing performance of On, I think Jack Jones sang it as well. Rendition, uh, a lot of guys are selling it, but, uh, the to dream the impossible Dream.

Oh, most beautiful songs ever. Yes, there's, and it's one of most beautiful ideas ever conceived. It is how I've always wanted to live my life, so we a chance to sing it and to play. It was presumptive joy, and it was, it was, it got a very strange reaction. We opened up at the, at the sort of the, the crest of the me Too movement.

Mm. And so there's a rape scene. It, well, it was written, you know, um, I'm forgetting his name right now. Um, Servan. Mm-hmm. , uh, in the classic novel, which is considered, which is one of the greatest novels in the world. I think it may be still the most red novel in the world. Uh, and, uh, Donkey Hooker Man of Lamancha, and.

They objected so much to the idea that there was a rape portrayed on stage. Yeah, I I, I was actually quite blown away by it. Cause I thought, well, it's a story that's 400 years old. What, what are we doing? Mm-hmm. what's happening here? And uh, there, this objection I learned was sort of historical as well.

Cause 50 years previous, which was the last time Madman opened in London, they wrote the same. They found it offensive that the girl was raped. It is offensive.

Jeffrey Pogash: It's the point, but yes it is. And

Kelsey Grammer: that's the point. That's the whole idea. That's the point. And she finds her way forward through the faith of this man who believes in a code in her world does not exist.

It gives her a new identity. It gives her hope. Exactly. It's fantastic story Asay for lunch. It's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Pogash: So, so my. My father and I both kind of started as actors. . I, I moved to New York City to become an actor after college. Yeah. And then I got into the bar industry that way. Um, so I'm, I'm a huge geek about film, tv, theater, uh, and, and one of my idols is the great James Burrows, so, Oh yeah.

Um, Can, can you tell us a little bit about how you came to meet him and then kind of the experience working for an amazing Hollywood show runner like James Bros.

Kelsey Grammer: Sure. Who his was.

Oh, sure. Um, When I heard the name Jimmy Bro, I thought, Oh, that's interesting. I wonder what his story is. And so he, that, you know, Jimmy bro, famous director, blah, blah, blah. He's kid. And I thought, Oh, oh, that's the connection. But I met Jimmy, um, at my audition, Forer for cheer and on on Cheers. And uh, he was a lovely guy, you know.

Straight out of, you know, whatever I thought the eighties Hollywood would look like. And, uh, he was very pleasant. He said, Let's go meet Ted and Shelly. And, uh, so we sat down with them and I read a couple of scenes towards them and they said, Okay, let's go across the street. He seemed very happy about all that.

And we went across the street and there were, there was a, a, like a, a board room. It seemed like a long, long table, which ended up being the place where they did readings every week, beginning of each week, but. I sat down and said hello to everybody and then I pulled out my little sheets. I didn't have 'em memorized cuz I, I'd been told years ago, You don't have to memorize, You're not looking for you to the perfect person.

They one moment of truth. So I thoughted on that. Then they, then they know that, oh, they can trust this actor, Give truth. And, uh, so we read the scenes with Ted and Shelly and I, I read through, there were I think two basic scenes. And there wasn't a single laugh in the room. There were about 15 people in the room.

I thought, well, you know, put was funny. So I guess they didn't think it was funny. So I stood up and I put the sheets down and I said, You know what? Thank you very much. I'm gonna go out there on the street and see if I gets the laughs out there. And so I started really walk down and went down the stairs.

Uh, I called my old friend Lois at that point. I said, Lois, what are you doing? Let's go down to San Diego. Cause I had spent some time in San Diego. That was my first job at the Old Globe Theater, and Louis said, Lets so down. We stayed this old place near Park and had a couple of giggles who, like, I'm

spend my last night in the, the hotel room, which was the Hollywood, the Hollywood, um, Holiday Inn on Hilton and Vine, I mean on Highland and Vine, which is. Now the big Kodak. Yeah, that's sure. But, um, I got to the desk and, and the guy behind the encounter said to me, he said, um, Mr. Grammar, Oh, hello. There's a whole bunch of messages for you.

Uh, um, you wanna take him here? There's sitting up in your room too. I said, Fine. I'm. So I went to grab my little bag and when I walked in there was a bottle of do par on sitting another table. Wow.

I up and said, Welcome to Cheers.

Jeffrey Pogash: Wow. Oh my God.

Jonathan Pogash: Oh, that. That gave me chills. Yeah,

Kelsey Grammer: me too. It was pretty great.

Jonathan Pogash: And that, And that changed your life.

Kelsey Grammer: Yeah, Jimmy, just say, to get back to the first point of it, Jimmy ended up in a, you know, a monumental part of my life. I mean, and, and you know, by, by default I became a big part of his life too.

We did some great stuff together and he, you know, of course he. Is the premier director of sitcom and history. There is no question about, there's nobody close, second except

back and say that that was funny. And, uh, our relationship is real. And good. And, uh, you and I, you know, not seeing eye to eye on some things, but we, we always love the fight. You know, we love the, we love the fact that we're hatching something creative together. And I just have so, so much love for him. It's just straight out love.

There you

Jeffrey Pogash: go. Well, my favorite shows as an adult favorite sitcoms were Cheers Wing, Uh, sorry. Starting in order Taxi, Then Cheers, then Wings, then Frazier. I can

Kelsey Grammer: got Jimmy Burle, all James Burrows shows there you. Yeah.

Jonathan Pogash: Yeah. And, and so, I mean, two shows Cheers and Fraser both ran 11 years mm-hmm. , um, that is, that is an incredible repertoire.

And you are really, like, you are the king of tv. Uh, and you know, I, I've, I've heard a lot of actors talk about, you know, actors who've worked in film, TV, and theater, which you've done all of, and Oh, and also, um, You know, behind the microphone, you've done, uh, voice work. And we cannot forget Sideshow Bob, uh, from the, From the Simpsons, because that is, you know, my, my generation, you know, that is just the ultimate.

Um, but how, well, well, how did that, how did, um, how did the Simpsons, uh, come about for you?

Kelsey Grammer: The Simpsons thing was, uh, Sam Simon, who was, you know, one of the original producers of the Simpsons was a writer on staff at Cheer. And Sam and I pals I liked him and, you know, we, we enjoyed, uh, you know, just shooting the blank around.

And, uh, he, I, I would come on set every day and I'd always think, Oh, the good, this was my, my walk work song. And, uh, it had been for years, even before I started doing, um, film work or television work. And Sam called one day and said, You know, I've been doing this thing Cals. So new shows at Simpsons, you know, and we're, we've got this character, um, there's been a side show, a sidekick of, of, uh, Crusty the Clown for a while.

He's never spoken. We'd like him to be very a and he has to sing a cold song. And, uh, I figured, you know, you're the guy, you, you sing right? And you're still singing, aren't you? And I said, Yeah, I'm still singing. What the hell? And um, I said, Yeah, I'd be glad to do it. So I, I was arranged to go in one morning after a trip to Chicago where I was, I was sort of a, a mascot for, uh, the, the All star, uh, hockey team.

So it meant that I was sort of like a, um, a coaching name only. And I actually hit the ice while I was there and had a couple of drinks and. I cut my head open, so I got it. It was pretty amazing. But, uh, I was fine. They handled it at Cheers. They handled it by writing a line of suffice to say that LA class is not the place to

swatted was I had an iron can when they got home, . Wow. Um, but what, So I got to, I got to. The recording session for, uh, side Joe Bob, and I'd already decided I was gonna do an impression of Elli rap, who was a famous American theater figure. And, uh, they said, uh, Kelsey, you okay? You're right. What's happened?

Are you up to this? How he came to life that day as soon, you know, then is just, he just caught on. I had a friend who was teaching at the time in Evanston, Illinois. Who sent me a picture from the day after the show aired for the first time and it was a giant graffiti mural on the side of one of the dorms of Sci Bob.

This funny had a hairline and a a, a banner across it. Red free side show bar.

That's awesome. Caught on right away. It was a very funny thing. .

Jonathan Pogash: Um, and one thing also that I'm curious about before we let you go, because we wanna be respectful of your time, um, the, uh, you know, I, I've heard a lot of interviews with like Seinfeld and, and you know, uh, Jennifer Aniston and you know, all these people who are on long.

Sitcoms and who've also done theater and, and film. Um, what is, what, what is it? The, which kind, which schedule do you prefer? You know, I mean, I know that there's sort of a completely different schedule with theater when you're doing a film and when you're doing a sitcom and a lot of sitcom stars are like, Man, I'd love to do another sitcom, because those, those schedules are like cushy and, and you know, all of that kinda schedule

Kelsey Grammer: in world.

Um, yeah. It's, uh, it's like going to high school for a living. You know, you work a take three months off maybe

daytime schedule is wonderful. I especially if you got a good welled group, you know, and, uh, Jimmy always directed the Ruby God, you know, But with cheers there. A lot of mayhem, a lot of craziness. And you know, one was out too late, this, one of the other, too late. That wouldn't come.

All of

alls we would shoot usually around one to sometimes even 3:00 AM uh, with Frazier. It was such a theatrical bunch anyway, and, um, They'd come to work, we would start shooting at around seven o'clock and about nine 30 we'd be done . And so it was like a whole life. Uh, we, we, we sort of broke in a new director, Pam Fryman at the time.

Oh. About three or four years into the show, we run the show and, uh, we did the camera blocking day, which was the busiest day. That's the hardest day. We were done around three in the afternoon. We started at 10 and she said, Well, that's it. We're not doing anything else. I. Pam, do you have children? She said, Yeah.

Do you like your home life? Yeah. I said, Well, go enjoy it . Okay, we're going home. . It was, uh, it was a shock to her system, but she understood it from that point on that we were, we were meant to be there for as short amount of time as possible.

Jeffrey Pogash: Mm-hmm. , And speaking of children, I just wanna tell one short story about my grandson, whose name is Ethan.

I have two other children. Jonathan's children live in Massachusetts. Ethan lives here near me in New Jersey, and I told him that we were going to have. Kelsey Grammar for an interview on the podcast, and he said, I said, Well, Kelsey Grammar, and I showed him some of the things that you have done. One thing caught his eye.

He said what? He was in Toy Story two. Really? You were stinky Pete in Toy Story two That. Got his attention. You, you have won him over forever because that now he has researched you and he knows everything there is to know about Kelsey Grammar. He's nine years old.

Kelsey Grammer: The good thing about my career is that, uh, generation after generation is introduced to step by step's.

Have had nine year olds walk up to me and say I'm their favorite actor. And I think to myself, How is that? I say, I've watched every. I think, yeah, you, you are the most delightful tribe,

and said, I've watcher. And it happens a lot. It's kinda wonderful. And the other response happens to who, who is the first thing and then they start to go, Oh, oh. He's spent his whole lifetime trying to entertain me. Different ages, different generations. Yeah. So it's, it's been a very gratifying life that way.

And just segue back to the beer, I, I certainly hope that the beer enjoys the same kind of popularity and time, so starting out Absolutely. We've had lot of great responses in Atlantic City. We've had some good response from the guys at, uh, what used to be the Dennis Hotel, which is now valid.

Jonathan Pogash: Yes. Right.

And you have, you have a little connection. You've got a little connection to the, To the hotel. Yeah.

Kelsey Grammer: Hotel. When I was kid, yes. When I was six, seven, and eight years old, my granddad was organizing my grand Chevron for a while out of, for example, in New Jersey and. He was, if they always had their convention down there at the dentist, cuz he loved it.

And, um, so I, and I loved it too, . So now it's fun to kind walk in and remember some of what happened there when I was, Boy, I'm excited the beer is there and I'm, I'm hoping to get Jerry to put on all three flavors because he actually needs to really can't enjoy it unless you enjoy all three. And, uh, and to add whatever.

When we bring it, when we bring it in, um, we, uh, my ultimate goal is, To make faith American, sort of Atlantic City's beer of choice. And, uh, and to maybe have that move across the country, who knows? But for now, we've enjoy it. The art of making beer, the, the, the great enjoyment I also get from seeing people drink the beer and like it, you know, and it's, it's been really, it's been really popular some places in New Jersey it's really, really popular.

So New York and New Jersey is where we're basically, um, Available now, and we're gonna go step by step, state by state and roll it out slowly so we don't end up, uh, you know, behind the April.

Jeffrey Pogash: Yeah. Well, well, we know Faith American will be a great success. Thank you. Everywhere.

Jonathan Pogash: Yes. Thank you. And, and Kelsey Grammar.

You are an amazing entertainer and storyteller, and you never stop working, it seems. Um, and you know, we, my father and I can connect to that because we also just love working and love hustling and, you know, when you do what you love, it obviously doesn't feel like work. Yeah.

Jeffrey Pogash: Quitting. I've never, I've never worked a day in my life.


Kelsey Grammer: Exactly. Exactly. That's where we're at is wonderful. I hope to pass that on

Jeffrey Pogash: with my.

Jonathan Pogash: Well, well, thank you so very much and

Jeffrey Pogash: cheers to you Kelsey. Grammar cheer. Kelsey, thank you very, very much. Thank


Jeffrey Pogash: Typical Time is sponsored in part by Feron Dry, Corru Sound, and perfect puree

Jonathan Pogash: Mango Passion. Well, welcome ladies and gentlemen to the very first tip time. Uh, I'm so excited. It's Jonathan here. Of course it's me. Um, I'm gonna make for you. Wonderful cocktail that I created all by myself. All by myself, ladies and gentlemen.

It's called The Fall Shandy. It's a variation on the classic Shandy, which is of course, sort of a beer lemonade type of situation. Uh, but this is easy enough to make it home. And also for all of you folks working in bars and restaurants, this is great because it utilizes a couple of nice bar type products, uh, which I love.

So first of all, we'll start with our nice pilsner glass over. And I'm actually going to add my ice and I'm just using, you know, regular ice machine ice. But if you've got your fancy ice, please go ahead and be fancy because cocktail making is fancy and I like some good cocktail ice, but this is just from my refrigerator, which is of course fine, obviously latest gentlemen.

So, Uh, we're gonna start off with this perfect puree of Napa Valley. Their mango passion for perfect puree is amazing because they're great for industry professionals from, you know, guys, there's definitely a labor shortage these days, and you may be short of time with your prep. So using a puree like this that's already made, ready, available.

Comes frozen, you thaw it out. It's just a great addition to your cocktail making skills. Um, they also have this cool trade program where they can get you samples. So we'll throw the link on how to get that, uh, right at the bottom. But here we go. In the meantime, I'm going to go ahead and add one and a half ounces of my perfect puree of Napa Valley Mango Passion.

Ah, this is one of my favorite products. And you know, my dad loves this too. This is, uh, pure Faron dry ousel. So it is, it is an orange flavored laur. It is so nice, crisp, refreshing. Great. And really any all year round seasonal cocktails. We're going to throw an ounce of that into this. Nice footed pilsner glass is what I would call it.

If you're watching at home. If you're just listening, then I'm describing as best as I possibly can. I'm opening up a beer right now and this is, uh, just a lagr, but you can also use an ale and we're just going to top it off, literally topping off our drink just like that. Maybe you can hear the ice jiggling.

I definitely can. And I have my bar spoon right over here. I'll give it a little bit of a stir. Ooh, I can smell that mango. The passion, actually, you can smell both ingredients, um, very nicely. And the beer and the, uh, piron, dry ousel. So, uh, I'm, I'm getting of course, fancy as I do with my cocktails. You can have a fresh herb as a garnish.

But I decided to grab the last of mys, uh, from my garden. From my home garden. So this is a noche flower. It is edible. This is a noche. Oh, it's so beautiful. A couple of my durian flowers. How about that? And that, uh, ladies and gentlemen, is my fall shandy. So cheers to you all. Take care.

Jeffrey Pogash: Typical time is sponsored in part by Feron Dry Cortico, and perfect puree

Jonathan Pogash: Mango Passion.

And here is today's top off. Uh, while building your cocktail in a cocktail shaker, add the liquid ingredients first and then the ice before you shake your drink or before you stir your drink. This ensures, uh, that your drink is not over diluted and will result in a more balanced cocktail.

Jeffrey Pogash: That does it for today's show.

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Jonathan Pogash: The Cocktail Group Podcast is produced by First Real Entertainment and distributed by each drinks tv. A service of the Center for Culinary Culture, home of the Cocktail collection, and is available via anchor, Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon, and wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Kelsey Grammer Profile Photo

Kelsey Grammer

Actor / Owner of Faith American Brewing company

Kelsey Grammer has excelled at the highest level in theatre, television, and film as an actor, producer, and director. An initial role as Dr. Frasier Crane on Cheers developed into the cornerstone of the Juilliard-trained actor’s career. Grammer played the celebrated character in three different television series (Cheers, Wings, and Frasier) over a span of 20 years. Grammer has won six Emmys, three Golden Globes, and a SAG Award and has received an unparalleled 18 Emmy nominations, eight Golden Globe nominations, 16 SAG nominations, and one Tony nomination. Grammer created Grammnet NH Productions, a TV production company which has produced such hit television shows as the Emmy-winning Medium for NBC and The Game and Girlfriends for CW. Other Grammnet producing credits include the NBC productions The Innocent, Kelsey Grammer Salutes Jack Benny, Fired Up, In Laws, and Gary the Rat. For PAX, he produced World Cup Comedy. For FOX, he starred in and produced Kelsey Grammer Presents: The Sketch Show.
Accomplished as a voiceover artist, Grammer has played the iconic character Sideshow Bob on The Simpsons since 1990, for which he won an Emmy in 2006. As part of his extensive voiceover work, recent films include Warner Bros.’ animated film Storks and the adventurous and comedic animated film Bunyan and Babe. He has also lent his voice to the feature films Toy Story 2, Anastasia, and Teacher’s Pet, to the television series Father of the Pride and Gary the Rat, and to the Emmy-nominated Animal Farm for TNT. In 2019, Grammer returned to London’s West End in Man of La Mancha, sta… Read More