TAC 105 – Ghosts Gone Wild: Waipahu
Note: the transcript is created by Descript, it might not be 100% perfect. Time stamps are also not accurate because of adding the introduction.
Amy: [00:00:00]
Megan: Hello. Hello. Welcome everybody. Thanks for joining us again. Today we are continuing our spring break series covering the dead file episodes, which took place in vacation locales. And this week was AP's choice. So she will be telling you a little bit more about it and why she chose it.
AP: Hey everyone.
Yeah, we're covering Paradise Lost, which is season six, episode 13, originally aired June 25th of 2016. And I chose it because it is the only episode in Hawaii. And it just, I kind of remembered this episode before I rewatched it and I'm glad I chose it. Just a really quick note that Hawaii is not even 65 years old yet in comparison of being a state in the United States.
It's official statehood is August 21st of 1959. At least that's what I saw online. So if I got that wrong, Amy edited it here.
Amy: Okay.
AP: [00:01:00] And if you visit the islands are created of lava deposits, which is really cool. That's why there's some volcanoes that are more active in areas than others that are shifted further away on the tectonic plates.
And if you do visit, please make sure to respect the area, the history, people, and the culture. That is one thing that we hear a lot coming out from. People who live in Hawaii is the disrespect that comes from those who visit on their spring breaks or other times.
Amy: Yeah, for
AP: sure. So Amy, what are we warning people about today?
Amy: Well, today we are warning people about blatant racism, segregation, animal abuse, gun violence, Pearl Harbor. internment camps and disrespect of the dead.
Megan: So, it's a light one. Yeah. Fully loaded. Easy breezy.
Amy: Yeah. And if there is, if our talk leads to anything outside of those [00:02:00] things, I won't know that right now.
So please check the show notes and I will be sure to put it in the show notes so that you can prepare yourself for anything that that might have come up off the cuff for us today. And housekeeping is what we have next, and Amy, AP, has something she would like to share about something that she did and thinks is a good idea for us all to do.
AP: I recently, thank you Amy, took a me day. I took PTO from work and I gave myself permission to do absolutely nothing productive. It was hard because we, many of us grew up in that time frame of if you aren't working or doing something productive, you are lazy and potentially have a low work ethic.
Megan: Idle hands are the devil's tools.
AP: So that, it's, it's definitely one of those things that is. [00:03:00] Always on my mind, even if I have a relaxing day, I'm like, Oh, I got to go like do some laundry so that I at least did something productive and feel okay. So last Friday so last Friday of February, I took a day for myself. I booked myself a massage, took myself out for lunch, got some groceries for dinner, which was, I was planning on getting fresh baguette and good brie.
And came home, did a little yoga because the massage therapist said you should probably make sure to stretch later so that you continue to feel this. And took a nap. I never take naps. You two know this. I don't take a nap. Mm hmm. And it was the most freeing thing ever because I did my cleaning on Thursday so that I could feel more, less worried about it on Friday.
Mm
Megan: hmm. Nice. Well, that's wonderful. Yeah, that's a great
AP: idea. So. If you have PTO, it's there for you to use, take it and don't
Megan: work on your PTO. [00:04:00]
AP: I didn't even feel the pressure to check my email or my team's and often, and I don't, I don't get that pressure from my team, to be honest. It's, it's myself being like, I got time.
I'll just check it on my phone. I didn't even feel like I had to do that on Friday. I felt like it was Saturday. Good.
Megan: Good. Love that for you. Yeah. Thank you.
Amy: That's great.
Well, shall we do the overview? Sure. Since this was AP's choice, she is doing the she's going to do the overview and she's going to kind of guide us through our conversation. If you listened to our last episode, you will hear it was a bit.
Megan: It was kind of all over the place. We're going to try
Amy: and reign it in just a little.
I'm not saying that we're not going to go off on 500 tangents. I'm just saying we're going to try to stick to some sort of order of how the show went so that we're not bouncing all over. So. Amy, take it away. Well, thank
AP: you. [00:05:00] Again, this is Paradise Lost. That was season six, episode 13. And I don't know if it changed between all the different platforms, but watching on demand, it was 613.
We meet Jeff, who runs the museum of Oahu sugar plantation. The name was not provided during the show, so I'm not sure exactly the. True name of it, but they said it's the Oahu Sugar Plantation. He has been there leading for nine years and believes the history of the area is incredibly important to maintain and share.
But he's concerned that younger generations don't care. So he works with his buddy Noa to create a haunted attraction. We've learned that it seems to be mostly during the month of October or maybe it started in the month of October. But this seems to be the catalyst of the activity. We also hear from two other employees, Moira and Laura, who agree.
We have people being touched, followed by a shadow man, hearing things, being drained of energy and feeling [00:06:00] anxious or nauseous. This ranges from guests to volunteers and employees. Amy sees a drunk, wasted man who appears as a shadow. Inside and outside spirits that don't like each other. And there's a lot of turmoil between all the dead.
There's poltergeist activity. And Amy keeps hearing about a camp and how the dead despise each other and the living. Steve uncovers this property. While while historic in many ways is also a myriad of homicide, death, fear, and segregation. Steve speaks with three experts who share information of the history and living conditions on the sugar plantation, connections to Pearl Harbor and World War II, death and homicides, and death and homicides on the plantation.
In the reveal, we don't actually learn anything like out of left field and brand new like we see in so many, but we do see cracks in the foundation of the staff and volunteers who work together. Amy provides reasonable, doable, and [00:07:00] achievable advice. Jeff says, to do nothing would only make it worse. Does he follow through with Amy's advice?
Stay tuned as we discuss if the activity continues.
Amy: Alright. Well, let's dig
AP: in. So, we start off with well, we have as always, Amy opens, and then they tell us that they jump backwards. Mm hmm. But Amy's seeing that this is a large property and feels stressed right away, that the dead people are stressed.
It feels that there's a tall glass enclosure. With people inside and we're told, do not let them out. They are my pets. We also hear her say the earth is alive as a human. More so the earth has been asleep for a thousand years and is waking up. So that takes us back to Steve meeting with Jeff, who has no idea that the earth is waking up after a thousand years.
And I'm pretty sure Steve says something about trouble in paradise. [00:08:00] And we are at a sugar plantation, which is also a haunted attraction.
Amy: We learned, yeah, I was like, Oh, Amy's not
Megan: going to be happy about this. I said that my first note is open a haunted attraction, dude. With three periods
AP: after it, we have, first we have Matt, who's.
Well, this property has more than a dozen buildings. And so taking all this stuff down and Amy, I think you're like, yeah, you had a crew of 15. Yeah. Yeah.
Amy: I'm like, yeah, you all by yourself, Matt. well, this was an older one. Maybe, you know, maybe he did more of it.
Maybe
AP: he did more of it. Yeah. But then we find out that there are 22 buildings. Yeah. Because Steve asks, do you know how many buildings are on this property? Steve, it's his fucking, I think
Amy: he probably knows.
Megan: I would, well. Let's not assume, because some people might not. Yeah. He's been
Amy: there almost a decade.
Well, also, if they're, but I went to their website and the website says they have 25. But maybe he's talking about 22 of those little house buildings. Mm hmm. And then that they're, then there's the [00:09:00] big building, the main building, then there's other outbuildings. So maybe that's
AP: what they're Well, and there's potential that they've built new, they have put together new buildings for education or other stuff since this episode was, came out eight years ago.
Megan: So he said that people aren't interested in it, like Amy said, so he partnered with his friend Noa, and that's when everything started really kicking off, is when he started doing these. Haunted Tours, they call them.
Which like, we'll get to Noa, but I have thoughts on him.
AP: Yes, I think we all have thoughts on him. Oh,
Amy: God. And then, well, when, I just want to note when when Steve is talking to Jeff, and he says, Why did you do this? And he said, Well, I want the younger people to get in, get interested about their history.
I'm like, Okay, history tour is fine. Haunted tour is a completely
Megan: different thing. Yeah,
AP: there is a little bit of a difference between like, So, I've gone out to [00:10:00] different areas in, like, Door County, Wisconsin, and they have a haunted trolley tour. It starts at 7 o'clock at night in the summertime, so it's still sunny, it's still light out.
But what they do is they take you around to different areas where there's, there's been a lot of shipwrecks in the area. So they talk about, like, This is where a ship went down. Here are things people have seen. There's always a gray lady or a lady in white or whatever, but they don't tell you you're going to see or experience anything, but they do take you to the different areas and that is a fun way to get history and maybe trick your mind a little bit, right?
I don't get the feeling that's what these were.
Megan: No, the, the Noa strikes me as almost like a ZB type of a person where just. He thinks he's the best and he was only on screen for maybe Four minutes total. I'm surprised
AP: Steve even wanted him on screen after, at the
Megan: but he just was arrogant. [00:11:00] And I, I just, he wants to stir up the den.
Well,
AP: and that's what was crazy to me is. So Jeff reports the incident incidents with volunteers, the staff, general public, they're getting the reputation of being a quote, hotbed of paranormal activity. People see apparitions and spirits. They, they're running away screaming and Jeff's feels it's his faults for doing the haunted attraction.
Megan: And I said, yes, it is your fault.
AP: Steve says, if Amy says you have to shut it down, what will you do? And he says, I'm not sure we would survive that. So he's. He's fully bought in that this is the only way, at least from what they're showing. He's fully bought in that this is the only way he can operate his
Megan: Right.
Continually operate it. Yeah. Is to keep the income. So when Steve asked him if he'd had any experiences, he said he was in the kitchen He had pots banged together. One thing that I thought that he talked about was really interesting [00:12:00] was when he and his friend were walking, he had, he looked down and saw three shadows instead of two, and he noticed, he knew it was three because obviously there's three, so one is him, one was his friend, you know, wearing a baseball cap.
And so. I thought that was really, that would've given me goosebumps if I asked him that. Sure,
Amy: sure. The
AP: interesting part with that though, was he was like, I had to move to see which one was me. Yeah. I knew which one was my friend 'cause he was wearing a baseball cap. Mm-Hmm. .
Amy: Yeah. Yeah. But the on the scary part too is like the, what the third shadow was in between the two of them.
Megan: Mm-Hmm. . Yeah. That o.
AP: And that was outside the Japanese house. So as we're talking through this episode, they talk about the Japanese house. I think mentioned Korean house or Puerto Rican house, Portuguese. So that has to do with the history of the plantation and also internment camp as part of this did become an [00:13:00] internment camp during world war two, which we'll get into a little bit here, but if you're watching this episode and you're not quite.
Catching on where those house names come from, that's where.
Megan: So Amy says there are two types of spirits here. There's people inside. the buildings and people outside the building. So she refers to them multiple times. And she also said she's getting pushed. And I didn't know if she meant metaphysically or if she meant someone was, a spirit was actually pushing her, but it, it really didn't want her to be there.
She said he's very solid. Living people would feel trapped and he's in a tunnel kind of bouncing back and forth.
Amy: That was the
AP: drunk wasted man. Yeah. The drunk wasted man. The drunk wasted man. He, he's bumbling around like a drunk person bouncing off the walls of a tunnel. I got that it was a physical attack towards her because she also talks about feeling choked where the hand presses around her neck and squeezes
Megan: very hard.
I wasn't sure if that was [00:14:00] the same time. That's what, that's kind of what I got. So that's why I was a little, like, I didn't know if she meant pushed for the, but yeah, she does talk about getting choked later. So it's, you know, it
Amy: is possible that she meant push like mentally, you know, that's, that's a thing that they call it pushing, right.
But somebody can do that to somebody else's mind. It's possible. She meant that in my notes, I have the choking a little later down, so I don't think it was the exact same time that she's talking about. Yeah, I had
Megan: it
Amy: later on in the tunnel, but It, I mean, she was outside most of the time and it was really hard to see exactly where she was.
Like, I was trying to be like, Oh wait, that's the Portuguese house, which is red or whatever. I might have that wrong. But well,
AP: and, and we know that when they edit, they cut to fit where Steve has conversations going. Because if you see, so it may not, it may have been around the same timeframe. But was cut to be at different parts of the episode, but nonetheless, she's, [00:15:00] she's getting attacked in multiple ways.
And that we hear about the choking because Laura, who is an actress during the the haunted, the haunted tours. She's an actress. She experiences being exhausted, like being physically drained, dizzy, nauseous. Laura She's had the And then Steve goes, Why do you think that is? Why do you think it's paranormal?
And she's like, well, I'm really healthy.
Amy: I know. I like that's the only explanation is that
Megan: I literally wrote. The only explanation is paranormal because I'm sorry, but like, you're an actress. That's a very physical job. Of course, you're going to be exhausted when you leave and drained and, you know, nauseous and dizzy.
Did you eat anything all day? I mean, I, Laura, I was annoyed by Laura. Like she just had, in my opinion, she just reminded me of that [00:16:00] woman who was like, well, I got diabetes, so it's gotta be
Amy: ghosts.
AP: I mean, we've all had days where we've been physically drained of all energy. And it's not because there's a toddler running around it's, it's whatever reason you wake up and you're just like, I can't get out of this funk.
So I've never associated that to being paranormal. However, you're also, if you put yourself into a situation where you're aware that there are things happening to other people, and is it a little bit of confirmation bias?
Megan: Yes, I think it, yes, I think that's exactly what it was.
AP: There were some things happening.
Because there was also the bruises and the scratching she went home from work and had that choking sensation. That's where we learn Amy has the choking sensation. She, Laura just said, I prayed really hard and it eventually went away. And she said the same thing in the
Megan: reveal. So God, Oh God, with the [00:17:00] reveal, I just prayed,
Amy: I want to make sure we do talk about Noa though.
Cause in my notes, he was up before
Megan: I hated him. And here's what I, Oh my God, I hated him so much. I hated him so much. And I was, you know, not really against him until, and I'm sure we all are at the same point when Steve said, what if Amy told you to shut it down? Noa said, I wouldn't care. We wouldn't listen to her.
We'd still be doing it. Mm-Hmm. .
Amy: Then, dude, you're a prick. And then, and then I, I, I actually took a picture with of Steve's face and he said that, and that will be in the video version. Good. He,
Megan: he was a prick. He was a huge prick like
Amy: that.
Megan: Fuck you. Mm-Hmm. . You started this, you caused this with your ghost hunting, which.
I don't know anything about him, but he could be very inexperienced and maybe he like woke up one day and was like, I want to be ghost [00:18:00] hunter.
AP: I do believe that the only reason that he's in this episode is to provide that catalyst for the rest of the episode. Yeah, probably. That is, I believe fully that that is the only reason because we still talk to a fourth person and we've seen episodes where they only talk to two people.
Yeah. Or they've talked to a bunch of others and they cut 'em out. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, kind of the, the whole interview at the front half, I just, that all intermixes to me of where Yeah. It does things go and then it gets into the, their investigation parts of it. But yeah. I
Megan: loved Moira. Moira, yep.
Yeah. She's a volunteer and she, she gave a very much like of a, a mom. She had
Amy: family that
AP: worked there on the sugar plantation.
Megan: Her grandmother and great grandmother worked on the plantation. So that's why she did it was she had that tied to them and she wanted to keep it going, which I get,
Like Steve asks her and she said, yeah, it was bad. And I agree with her. Like. Oh, it's just like playing with a Ouija board. [00:19:00]
AP: Steve makes a comment later on, I think, towards the reveal, just about the Hawaiian culture and the way that they respect, you know, what's there. They respect it and speak with their, the spirits, the, the way that many of us want to, but feel like we're crazy if we do.
I mean, I still have full on conversations now with both sets of grandparents and with Briggs and with other dogs, like, but it's mostly one sided but I think that that is. It's something that is incredibly amazing to watch and to hear her have pride in her family that worked on this sugar plantation that did not have great history to the place.
And that's why the history is important to her to share. What is my culture? Yes. What is my heritage? And what do we want to avoid
Amy: doing in the future?
Megan: Right. Yeah. So yeah. It's a talk about the doll. Oh God, when that, when she talks about [00:20:00] the doll, my jaw went, I was like, holy shit. So she's talking about, unless somebody else wants to talk about it.
I just want to ask a question. You go ahead. Okay. So they're in so they walked, they're in the museum. There's a doll case in the museum. They're standing by it. And it's this like two, maybe two foot tall glass museum, the way, or glass case, the way you would see a glass case in a museum. And in it, there's the, there's a doll and it's like an older doll.
Obviously it's in the,
Amy: I think it's Japanese. It looks like a
Megan: Japanese doll. She said it was a Japanese doll. And so Every day when they come in to check on the museum and make sure it's like ready to open, the doll is outside the glass case on the ground. With the doors and windows locked.
Everything's locked. Like, it's not like somebody can, and, and they said you know, they lock up every night so it's not like somebody comes in. And then she said that they, somebody saw it, thought they saw the spirit [00:21:00] of a little girl in the building, maybe four or five. And they think that she's playing with the doll and she's the one that's pulling it out.
AP: Noa talks about the little girl ghost as well. Yeah. He's a little ghost spirit. And that's that confirmation with, with the little girl there, which, I mean.
Amy: And Steve
Megan: said, well, that's kind of heartbreaking. And I'm like, it kind of is, but he just wants to play with the doll. They're
Amy: looking at the case and he says, this case is enclosed and it did look like.
It was a sealed case. There's no Mm-Hmm. didn't look like there was a door or you lift up the top or anything like that. So how does the doll get out? And also how does it get back in?
Megan: Maybe they, maybe it's one that you can just lift up, maybe,
AP: or it, it could be just that it's a new case at this point in time
Megan: or the door is on the back so visitors don't see it.
Maybe. But
Amy: the way he said this case is enclosed. Mm-Hmm. made me think he was trying to say, it's not like you can just easily take something out and put it [00:22:00] back in. Yeah. But I was trying to figure out how a spirit would be able to get a doll out of there. That I don't know. Or how you'd be able to get it back in without taking the case apart completely and putting it back.
Or maybe you can. Maybe you can take the whole case apart and put it back together each time. I don't know. That part was a little confusing to me. Yeah. But it was interesting. I
Megan: thought that was really
Amy: sweet.
AP: Amy, touch on, I don't have anything about her touching on a little girl ghost or spirit.
Megan: No, I don't think she saw a little girl.
If she did, they cut
AP: it. Yeah, because everything I had was about anger and hatred, wanting everyone out of there, being neglected. This is our land.
Amy: Yeah. Get out. Yeah.
AP: So we'll, I'm sure we'll tie those in as we walk through Steve's investigation and dig into the archives. The three people that he spoke [00:23:00] with
Amy: yeah, he did speak
AP: with a lot.
The first one was Lopaka Kapanu. I horribly butchered that I'm sure. He's a historian. Yep. He's a historian and said. Yep. Conditions were absolutely brutal. This was a plantation that was built in 1897 and ran until 1995. Yeah. Had about 10,000 acres and spanned down to Pearl Harbor which then later on, Steve's doing some research and he is like, I found that it shares a border with Pearl Harbor.
I'm like, you were fucking told that
Amy: already. I told you that. But even I knew that, Steve,
Megan: I know what this, but did he, but did they change it? And he did the research first.
AP: Right. Who knows where, where some of that is. Anything's
Amy: possible at this point with this freaking show.
AP: They said close to a thousand people worked here and I'm trying to figure out was that over the hundred years or was that at a time?
Megan: I would think it'd be over the hundred [00:24:00] years. Yeah,
Amy: that'd be a lot of people. I mean, it's a big space.
AP: That's the only thing is that it was 10, 000 acres. So yeah, I just wasn't sure. But
Amy: a lot of those acres are being worked. Yeah. A lot of those acres are the actual sugar field. So I don't know that that many people would be able to live there all at the same time in 22 to 25 houses.
Megan: Well, also, though, they didn't care about the people, so they wouldn't care if they put a hundred people in one
AP: house. So, well, because they said they lived and died here, filthy conditions. They had corrugated tin roofs and dirt floors, which meant you were basically in a oven.
Amy: Oven. Yeah.
Megan: Luckily, they don't live in a hot area, though, because that would be really tough.
Amy: Yeah. That's why. Sorry. I was gonna say it's Hawaii. I know.
AP: And it's very humid in Hawaii too. Lapaka said it would be lucky if a baby survived a year in these.
Megan: I know. That was so [00:25:00] sad. Yep.
AP: The local Hawaiians were decimated by sicknesses. This is where we get. The several different cultures that are brought in Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Puerto Rican, Portuguese, Korean, separated by ethnicity, by the people who owned it.
Amy: Can't have the help talking to each other. Yeah, you can't, can't have the help
Megan: talking to each other. It was so disturbing because they even talked about how they paid people different rates to ensure resentments. So like they would pay, for example, the Chinese. more than they would pay the Koreans to create that resentment because they didn't want the workers to band together and unionize because there were so many more of them than they were of the plantation owners.
So it was just,
AP: well, it's, it's easier to create chaos because money talks and it doesn't matter that it was, The people in charge that were doing this, I mean, we, we see a lot of this with the, still the fight for equal pay. And [00:26:00] that was definitely Amy definitely feels that tension throughout the episode talking about, as Megan, you mentioned earlier, the inside and outside people, they hate each other.
The outside people hate the other outside people. There's just, there's so much. Sorry, I'm doing it again. There's so much hatred and part of that is what's draining the energy of people, but it's also creating poltergeist like activities. So those pots and pans that Jeff heard clashing weren't a toddler playing, but they were potentially poltergeist activity.
Megan: And it's really sad because the, the dis I want to say dissonance, but I don't think that's right. But it's not segregation either. Anyway, the, the, the separation of the people continues even after death because Amy talks about how It was segregation. Oh, segregation. Yeah, it was. Because Amy talks about how even in death, people still hate each other.
Yes. So it's like, that's so sad.
Amy: And she said, now they're all jumbled up together [00:27:00] and it's even worse now because they're all dead and jumbled up together. Well, and
AP: somebody is keeping them and we never really find out who, what this glass dome, which all I could picture is like a giant glass cloche that you're revealing food underneath, that there's just people inside of that glass dome.
Megan: And then Amy, when she further gets that, you know, obviously she's getting from people that they were mistreated when they were alive. And it was like, Yeah. Yeah.
Amy: They do not have good clothing or shelter and starving at some point.
AP: Starving, neglect, abuse, screaming, yelling, just all sorts of things going on.
Some of that relates to a specific likeliness as well.
Megan: So then Steve goes digging through the archives and he finds that there were at least 10 homicides on the plantation. But we only really talk about [00:28:00] Right. In the
AP: history. We meet with Chris Gaylord, a homi retired homicide detective,
Megan: and
AP: She provides us information on these two crimes. altercations. And one of them, you know, we've got officers in the 1905 raiding in a legal gambling game on the plantation. So I'm sure there was no emotion behind any of this going on. They arrest 11 Chinese laborers and the police and laborers get surrounded, are beat with sticks and shots ring out.
One Chinese laborer, this is where I feel like somebody wanted this guy dead. Yeah, with that many shots. In one, only one person died out of that whole brutal beating of everything going on. Chongji Phat, he was shot six times and killed. Yeah. And there was no determination of who did it. Yeah. Nobody was ever
Megan: charged.[00:29:00]
And you, yeah, you think if, I don't know. Yeah. That was,
AP: yeah. It was either that or he was used as a human shield, which easily could have happened too. And I think Amy talks about screaming, yelling, dirt in the face, can't breathe, nauseous, sticks piercing the body so much. And I don't know if that's connecting to this or one of the other later
Megan: on.
AP: It was either that or he was used as a human shield, which easily could have happened too. And I think Amy talks about screaming, yelling, dirt in the face, can't breathe, nauseous, sticks piercing the body so much. And I don't know if that's connecting to this or one of the other later
Megan: on.
See, to me, when she said that,
she was talking about the two people who were killed in the Pearl Harbor attacks because they were both killed with [00:30:00]
AP: shrapnel. That's why I said stuff that was coming later on, but the whole beating with sticks part, that's where I was like, yeah, are they trying to stretch it into two areas or trying to make it?
into one spot or is it just all coming together that way?
Amy: Maybe. She does say she hears people yelling numbers and stuff. Yes, lots of numbers. That's I think the The gambling. The game, the gambling, the gaming. And it reminded me of Mrs. Maisel, when Joel had the, the lounge. in Chinatown and in the basement, all the Chinese people were gambling and they were always, some of them were playing mahjong, I noticed, but a lot of times they were just yelling at each other and yelling out numbers and stuff like that.
So I'm wondering whatever game that is, if
Megan: that's what they were playing. So cute. Such an idiot though. And then we went to May of 1985. Great year. There was a cockfight going on and there was a man killed. His name was Henry Cuba. He was drunk and he started fighting with people [00:31:00] running the cockfight, specifically a man named Jamie Fernandez.
He's the one who ran the fight. So Jamie went back to his house, got his gun. Those were
Amy: two different people. Yeah. Jamie was not, he was just a guy who came to watch it. Oh, did I
Megan: misunderstand? I don't understand.
AP: Yeah, so he, so Henry got in a fight with the guy who runs it and then Jamie intervened and Henry like made me to try and be like, okay, get, get out of here, get out of here.
And it was now I've got you and then Jamie left and I'll let you continue. Okay.
Megan: I, sorry. I thought he ran the fight. So thank you for clearing that up. I did not. I didn't hear that. So Jamie went to his house, got his gun, came back and shot Henry four times in the chest. So, really did not have any chance of making it.
And to me, that was so deliberate. Like, he didn't just pull out his gun in the heat of the moment and shoot him. He left, went to his house, got his gun. Came back and shot
AP: him, [00:32:00] which leads you to believe that there this is not the first altercation that these guys have had or that this person has had and Connecting back to what Amy says about the drunk wasted man.
This has to be Henry
Megan: Because then she said she sees a man yelling about the animals and she said he does not understand that he's dead.
Amy: Yeah, I got, I took that to be that he was in, in history when Henry was shot that the altercation maybe started because he, it was a cockfight. Chicken fight. And that he was upset about the animals being harmed.
I
Megan: think that's why he started. That's what I got too.
AP: I got that he was losing. Oh. Either side. It could be a flip of the coin on that. It could be that he had his own birds in there. You know, maybe it was a pro like, I don't know. Could be, but
Amy: didn't Amy say he said he was upset, like he [00:33:00] was saying, kept saying over and over again, all the animals died?
Mm hmm.
AP: Yep, and, and that's where I wasn't sure if that was all a connection there or if it ties back to the other part we're going to talk about here shortly. Oh, maybe, yeah. So, I There's a lot that goes into it, but I wasn't, I was getting more that he was partaking in the gambling situations and not just coming up there to
Megan: Maybe I was just projecting.
Amy and I were projecting. I
Amy: mean,
AP: yeah. And just as an interesting fact is that roosters are often, you see them with those blinders on their eyes because they will kill each other. Like they're innate to do that in a lot of ways. So fight phe, the ladies pheasants. Well, like pheasants, they will do that if they're at a game farm or something because they will pack each other's eyes out.
They will try to kill each other even if it's not fully made in
Megan: season. Nature's brutal. One thing I had that's not [00:34:00] related to anything, but it's a different ad. When they say, if you are in, if you want to reach out to us, it's a different one than they normally have. Oh, is it? Yeah, I just thought it was interesting.
Normally they have one where Amy's got lighter hair with purple on it and like a purple y shirt.
AP: That's later on in the, this is
Amy: season six. Isn't it different every season? I feel like every season is a different one of the last
AP: couple of seasons weren't.
Megan: Oh, I thought it was the same one every season.
So that's why this one, I noticed it
AP: was this one is because it was season six. I think that
Amy: maybe we just haven't done a season six in a while and maybe,
AP: but I think the last couple were all the same because she did have that blonde hair with the purple in it. And that was, that was really prevalent. I think it like season 13.
Anyways. Oh, and going back to, we, we've now put Henry aside and moving on as Steve learns about the plantations boundary of Pearl Harbor. I frankly love the [00:35:00] history of Pearl Harbor and just like, you know, we've got the USS Arizona that has the, the souls of the trapped. Souls of those who did not make it off that ship when it went down.
Obviously Pearl Harbor happened December 6th of 1940 or December 7th, 1941. Two people died on the plantation during the attack. Likely killed. They said, they're not sure, but it's likely from friendly fire as they're shooting anti aircraft weapons. So think of, if you saw the classic 2001 adaptation of Pearl Harbor.
I did
Amy: not see that. With my boyfriend, Ben Affleck and Josh
AP: Hartman. But if you, if you see Cuba Gooding Jr's character on that is, he is a Cook, who goes up and gets on one of the 50 Cal anti aircraft guns. So that, think of that type of weaponry that you're shooting into the sky. It's got to go somewhere and it's coming back down.
That's where they're saying the friendly fire [00:36:00] happened or that it was hitting things that caused shrapnel to come off. We learned about a three year old girl that is hit with shrapnel and a 19 year old man who was hit with shrapnel and those two died.
Amy: Do you think that little girl could be the little girl playing with a doll?
I just put that together.
AP: I 100 percent
Megan: think so. I don't, I mean, they called her in the, they, they said the spirit was Japanese, but she's Hawaiian. They, Daniel said It was in the Japanese
AP: house.
Amy: Oh, maybe. Yeah, it's, it was a Japanese doll, but it wasn't necessarily a Japanese. I don't think they mentioned what the little girl looked like.
Although , um, Noa saw a little girl too, and he said she had dark hair, but either one, either nationality would have dark hair. Yep.
AP: And then. Post Pearl Harbor, we have the internment camps, which history will try to tell you. Well, [00:37:00] they were doing it to protect Asian Americans and no, it was segregation.
It was a way to separate people. If even if they could prove that they weren't Japanese however, we did not see the same thing happening with white Germans.
Amy: after the 322 Japanese Americans, then they started filling it up with Italian Americans and German Americans and Koreans.
AP:
Amy: They called it Hell's Camp. Yep. Hot,
AP: dusty, and uncomfortable.
Amy: It said lived in tents, had latrines. Hot, dusty, and uncomfortable. And I wrote, sounds like me.
AP: 160 acres with barbed wire fencing. Yeah, that's to keep them safe, right?
Yeah,
Amy: yeah. Bullshit. And it was called Hannah Ul Uli, Hannah
Megan: Ul Uli. So then we get to the sketch and she said the only group that she really was concerned about was the angry group outside. So we get to the reveal and it's Jeff, Laura and Moira and [00:38:00] Steve called out Noa and said bringing him to the reveal would have been a waste of time because he didn't care what Amy would have to say.
And Amy is just kind of over there smirking like.
Amy: I took a photo of her face too. Yeah. Because he says nothing you could say would convince him it's a bad thing and she was like, yeah. Yeah. She's probably like, thank you. I would have reached across the table and strangled him. Probably good for
Megan: everybody because Amy wouldn't take his shit.
Amy: I would have paid to
AP: see that though. Quickly, there were four internment camps in the U. S. that did have German citizens. Ethnic Germans, they called them. Some smaller numbers of Italian and Italian Americans. Mostly were for Those that they could differentiate because they didn't look like those in charge.
Exactly.
Amy: And do we all know that George Takai was in one of those when he was a kid?
AP: Yeah. I will say Karen and Georgia covered an internment camp story. Oh, really? It was earlier in [00:39:00] 23. I, I listened to it while I was out for a run. It was a book You
Megan: lost me at Out for a run, .
AP: It was a, it was a Don't understand though, I don't understand.
Somebody wrote a book afterwards. He was a, it was in California. He was, he was a baseball player and was taken in and then he. they managed to like, the whole town was upset that they were taking all the Asian Americans and putting them into these camps. And so he kind of stayed as an inside guy and was writing out to the local papers and the papers were publishing what was happening inside these internment camps.
Amy: Oh, that's cool. Interesting. I'll have to look for that book. If I did, I'll put it in the show notes.
Megan: I have a very unpopular opinion and most people are going to hate me, but. I hate reading about World War II because it's just so sad. Like, I hate it. I hate it so much. I read to get away, and we're getting right back to World War II.
And I just, I don't want to read about it. I don't want to [00:40:00] read about the things that people went through because it's sick. And that's why I don't like reading it.
Amy: I don't usually read war things either. And I don't like watching movies that have to do with World War II. And my dad was fascinated with World War II.
Loved it. Like, was so
Megan: interested in all of it. My mom likes books about it. Like, the, the tattooist of Auschwitz she loved. And I'm like, no. Like, I've been to Auschwitz. I've been to Birkenau. I don't, I don't want to read about it. I don't want to read about it.
AP: All the, all the worst camps in Europe were put into Poland.
So Germany could say, uh it's not us. Look at what Poland's doing. That's why they put all the, the Auschwitz and Birkenau and everything. All the. The big hitters
Amy: are
AP: not in Germany. No,
Megan: they were doing enough.
AP: Well, they were still doing it, but just not on home turf. And [00:41:00] a lot of times they had a lot of Hitler's higher ups were Jewish because threat of
Amy: family.
Megan: Oh my God.
I hate everything. Yeah, I know. All right, so we're in the reveal. Back to this. Amy
Amy: talks about the man in the tunnel. She said he used to be there a lot. He's in his 30s or 40s. He died in the last 20 years and he was drunk when he died. She did say earlier. that he doesn't know he's dead?
Megan: Yep. Yeah, I mentioned that.
Okay. Yep, I did. Yep. Cool. But good to say it because you
Amy: never know what I say. If I forgot it, maybe someone listening did. She, she said you might hear him banging into walls or see him as a dark shadow. And of course, that's what we think.
Megan: That's what Jeff and Jeff talks, yep, talks about his story.
AP: I also put in here that three of them have good intentions, even if the perception doesn't come across well, because they still are worried about maintaining the history of the area and having that be lost to time.
Yes.
Megan: [00:42:00] Yes. I will say for as much as Laura annoys me, I do think that she has a good heart and she does want the, the history of it to be maintained and she wants it to be honored and the dead honored. Well, and she
Amy: said she feels terrible about going back to work there as an actress at this haunted attraction.
And so, yeah, she
Megan: did get a photo of Henry cause that's, they started talking. He, I thought he was so handsome. They showed a
Amy: picture of Henry. Okay. So whoever it was that told him the story, told Steve the story about that, showed him a picture of this family and everybody's faces were blacked out except for Henry.
And then in the reveal, Steve says, I mean, I wrote it down, so I have to write exactly what he said. Bup, bup, bup, bup, bup.
AP: Read exactly what he
Amy: said? Read exactly what he said.
Megan: Yeah. In her notes. I wrote it. I'm
Amy: reading my notes.
Oh, I managed to track down a photo from the family and I'm like, you mean someone handed it to you and then your production team cropped Henry out of it? [00:43:00] Yes.
Megan: That's exactly what I mean.
That's exactly
Amy: what happened. Yeah. But yeah, Amy confirms that was him. Mm hmm. That's the guy she saw, the drunk guy. Mm hmm. She talks about getting attacked on the porch and being choked. Mm hmm. And so, if that actress was choked at home, Laura and then I wrote in parentheses, rebuke Satan in the name of Jesus.
I'm like, that's what
Megan: she said.
Amy: I shouldn't laugh. And then, but doesn't that mean he followed her home? Yes. Mm
Megan: hmm. I mean, okay. Listen, you both know that I have strong faith. And I, I like This is tricky because I get where she's coming from, but like, not everything is Satan, Laura, me, but like, I don't know.
That just made me roll my eyes.
Amy: I just feel like if some bad demon is trying to choke you, they don't give a shit what you're yelling. I don't think it, they'll be like, screw you and your fake
Megan: God. Yeah, no, because they're specifically don't believe [00:44:00] in him
Amy: and Amy has said before like if if if it's you know Whatever kind of spirit is bothering people.
That's why you have to bring in a Religious person from their religion now, right some other religion because they're not going to
AP: ties into what she says later It does
Megan: and I really loved that when she said that so Again, again, Laura, just one thing I have before we get to recommendations, Laura comes back with, I'm pretty exhausted when I leave here, like, again, you have a physical job.
So I, I have a desk job and there are some days when I talk to nine people, when I have 10 meetings all day, I'm exhausted when I come home, doesn't mean that you're fucking being attacked by ghosts. Okay, I'm done. I just had to get that in there. It was my last note.
AP: I see all of that. I, and at the end, before they get the advice, I [00:45:00] have that Moira is very sad for those there.
She is. And, you know, that, you know, we do hear Amy say the dead feed off the energy of the living. Jeff is shown as being stunned where Laura looks completely freaked out. Like he's shocked. He doesn't seem
Amy: like he knows that all that history, like the cockfights and all that.
He didn't, that was all news to him, which
AP: is weird being that he curates a museum for nine years. Laura does look completely freaked out. Yes. So I, I do believe that. Something's happened for her, and it's probably heightened, kind of like, I will say, for a long time, I hated walking back to my deer stand at 5.
30 in the morning because I saw green glowing eyes once, they were deer eyes, but I watched them from my my headlamp and I looked over and I see them blink one at a time and then I hear it turn and I booked it like that's booking it and I'm booking it to myself. It freaks you the hell out [00:46:00] because you are thinking that everything's around you and I knew what was there, but if you're having these other things there, like I'm giving her some grace is all I'm getting at.
I didn't dislike her. No. I And then Moira, again, sad, but also accepts and understands it. This is where Steve says, Hawaiians, you have a very different attitude towards the paranormal. You respect them and want to help them. And we get into our advice and what happens. Oh my god. And what everyone is dying for.
Yes. So first Amy says, find various religious leaders to do funeral rites for those faiths and help them move on. This will get the majority of the activity to go. Then you'll need three to four mediums to do a walk and search for those who couldn't move on because they don't follow a particular faith or something else.
She says, the choker will Will prefer to move on like the shadow man, the drunk guy, they're going to prefer to move on. If there are more [00:47:00] incidents, you're going to need an exorcist.
Megan: And Laura's face when that was like.
AP: And she does tell them, tours, you can do them, but you need to tone it down to maybe only a couple of the locations being open.
Not all of it. Give them a place to go. And Steve goes, how is your boy Noa going to take it? Jeff thinks they can work through it and Laura doesn't believe it will happen with Noa. Yeah. She's like
Amy: shaking her head. She's
Megan: like, no, is not going to like it. No.
AP: Jeff says it's been a real education to do.
Nothing would make it just make it worse. And then we get Jeff resigned from his job and Noa continue the tours. The activity
Megan: continues when that, when, when I saw Jeff resigned, I literally went, yeah. And I was watching on my phone because I procrastinated and John goes, what? Like, I gasped so loudly that John was like, what happened?
AP: That's what, I wish we had more information. Was it like something, [00:48:00] did something else happen in his life that he'd left? Because I didn't get the feeling that Noa like owned the plantation or the property. It's not like Noa ran him out unless all of the board decided they wanted to go Noa's route rather than Jeff's route.
Amy: Well, except that. Okay. So I, first of all, I wrote, I would expect this. Noa's behavior. I would expect that from a white man, but he's a Hawaiian. So that was surprising. I did look into this a bit. They do not do haunted tours. They do history tours still, but they have not done a haunted tour or at least they have not advertised one since 2016.
Good. Okay. So I looked, I looked them up and it is called Hawaii's Plantation Village. They refer to with the unfortunate abbreviation HPV. I have their email address, they have a Facebook page, which is more active than their website. Their website's kind of [00:49:00] janky. And there's no haunted stuff on either, but I did go to their website, found their old press releases, and I found a press release from 2016 that talks about a haunted plantation tour, but all the ones before that didn't, and all the ones after that didn't.
So, that tells me they weren't. And then they did close at some point and reopened on November 16th, 2020. They reopened to the public. So, something must have happened and that's maybe when Jeff left. Well, yeah, probably, well, if they opened in November of 2020, that's, yeah, yeah. I don't know when they closed, but they were missing a lot of newsletters in between.
I think they were closed for a couple of years at least.
AP: It was a, it was a really interesting episode with a lot of great historical connections. And one thing I wanted to call out because I've gotten a lot of notifications of this in the last couple of weeks, the newest national park in the United States is a [00:50:00] former internment camp in Colorado. And it was created to be a national park, to provide the history and show.
So our national parks are areas to be treasured, not be developed, and they do often provide education pieces throughout. So I did drop a note in my notes, Amy, of the link of the story. I'll put it in the show notes. It's, yeah, it's in Colorado. So it is, again, something to help try and provide some history of what happened and not just try to sweep it under the rug.
Mm hmm.
Amy: Okay.
Megan: All right. Well, that was that was a good
Amy: one. It was a doozy. Yeah, it was. Okay. So, next week, we are covering the one I chose. It is called Deadly Force, Season 11, Episode 13. I was gonna switch it out and do a different one. Because the last one I [00:51:00] picked was in Florida and this one's in Florida.
When I looked into it further, the client is a Reiki master. And so I wanted to keep it just because I wanted to. Know more about that. I thought that would be interesting. And I don't remember this episode. I don't remember anything else from it. It was from May 16th, 2021. And the travel channel blurb is Steve and Amy head down to the Florida Everglades to meet with a Reiki master who claims her family is being torn apart by violent paranormal attacks.
She's worried if Steve and Amy can't help, someone's going to wind up hurt or even dead. No pressure
Megan: though. No pressure. No pressure. Yeah.
Amy: So much of the dramatics. I know. The
AP: marriage on the rocks. I
Megan: barely was able to watch it without that. I'm like, well, where's the drama? Where's the marriage? Nobody's [00:52:00] marriage is failing.
I
AP: mean, come on. I had to have, if she had something follow her home, like there's gotta be something. I know. Just kidding.
Amy: Yeah.
Megan: No, this was a good one. It was good.
Amy: It was good. It was fun to see all that all the, like the beautiful landscapes of Hawaii and all the palm trees and all of that. It was
Megan: also kind of And the volcanoes in the background.
As
AP: frustrating as it was, it was kind of interesting to see how they treated Noa through this. And I really, again, do believe the only reason he was even featured. And all was to provide us like, nobody else is this driving antagonist of the haunted tours.
Amy: Yeah.
Megan: It seems like it's just him. And it seems like Jeff, I don't want to use the word weak because that's not the right word, but it just, I felt like he just wasn't invested.
Maybe like he didn't want to stand up to Noa. I don't know, [00:53:00] but. Oh
Amy: yeah. And I think he felt like the haunted tours were. We're something to, to keep the place going and he wasn't even thrilled with it in the beginning. And Amy
Megan: said, like, you don't have to stop them, which she usually does. She just said, you know, like Amy said, just have it at one or two locations so that the dead have people.
places to go.
AP: She's usually been okay when people do things respectfully. It's when,
Megan: but no, it didn't strike me as being
AP: respectful. And Jeff, to me, seemed more like he just had blinders on, like when he was like, Oh, this was an education. We're going to, we're going to fail if we get rid of this. Oh, have you been a business operator?
Are you checking your books? Like what else are you doing? Like maybe if you fix your website.
Amy: Yeah. I can't imagine the website was better before. It's pretty,
AP: pretty bad now. It, to me, it looks like a platform that I [00:54:00] know another company that has used. It's a local business and it's, they just said it was, it was too much to try and upkeep because it was something that was built in the early 2000s.
And they wanted to keep the URL where it should be like, just abolish it. No, you know what? I,
Amy: I used to design websites and I, Still, I don't really do it anymore. I still don't know how. You can keep your URL and put a completely different website on. It literally takes five minutes. You do have to pay someone to do it.
Megan: Call them up and tell them that, Amy. I know.
Amy: Maybe I should get a job. Yeah.
Megan: Anyway. Anyway, well, thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next time.
Amy: Bye.
AP: Bye. Bye.
