Footlongs, Fresh Produce & A Side Of Legislation | Fast Five

Hello and welcome to the Omnitalk Retail Fast 5, which comes to you by way of the Omnitalk retail podcast network.

I am Chris Walton.

I am remote from Barcelona, Spain, taking a break from the Shop Talk Europe conference to record this week's podcast.

And you know, you know, with so much talk of AI and delivery speed enhancements over the past few Fast5 podcasts and seeing the headlines on the docket again this week, I just said to myself, I said, you know what?

We need to bring in another big gun to co host this week's pod.

And I think, you know, everybody, I think I really hit the guest lottery this time.

I think I hit the guest host lottery because Chap Aiken, the Gartner analyst for digital commerce and supply chain, joined me to break down this week's headlines.

Someone.

Someone whose job it literally is to provide insight and research on how digital commerce and supply chain retail ecosystems are evolving.

Sounds like he's tailor made for us here at omnitok, doesn't it, everybody?

So sit back, enjoy and think about what Chap and I got right and wrong this week as you decide for yourself where the future of retail is headed.

Producer Ella, let's cue the tape.

Uber eats and DoorDash.

I hope you are paying attention because, wow, a shot has been fired across your bow.

I think there is some aspect of the future of retail online merchandising being driven than buy content.

I think it's sad that we need legislation to deal with these kinds of issues.

Watch out, world.

Walmart seems to have it dialed in right now.

We need lots of scale on the consumer side for that monetization to work.

And right now, I don't see the compelling consumer angle that drives that kind of scale.

All right, Chap Akin, longtime fan of the show, longtime LinkedIn pal of mine.

How are you, Chris?

I am great.

Is an incredible time to be covering retail.

So I am super excited to be on your podcast.

I, as a fan of this show, I actually get a lot of my retail news from this show.

So I found it surreal that I'm going to be your co host.

I'm honored to be here.

I just want to tell you that I actually listened to this show on my long road and gravel bikes as a source of idea inspiration for my research.

So there you go.

Really?

All right.

Wow.

What an endorsement to start off.

Thank you, man.

That's so great.

That's so great.

And you're, you're a fellow Minnesotan too, right?

Am I, am I, am I not correct in saying that, that's right.

Red Wing, Minnesota.

Yeah, Red Wing.

Just right down the road.

So, so tell our audience about yourself and, and also about Gardner because I think, you know, you know, there's a.

You can go, you can be in retail for a long time and not understand how Gartner fits into the whole ecosystem.

So I'd love for you to touch on that too.

Yeah, absolutely.

So Gartner supports retailers on their mission critical priorities.

And now Gartner is mostly known for like their magic quadrants and their hype cycles.

I'll actually be doing a magic quadrant this year myself.

But we provide insights across marketing, hr, finance, IT and of course supply chain.

That's the practice that I'm.

And in this crazy world of AI, our job is to help clients see around corners as they navigate this crazy world that we're in right now.

My coverage is specifically a few areas.

It's the intersection of digital commerce and supply chain.

I cover a software market, distributed order management, I cover retail returns and I help B2B and retailers with order management technology and process.

And for retailers, that's stuff like how to get better at omnichannel fulfillment.

For B2B, that might be how do I do, how do I execute real time inventory visibility in their expanding sales channels and of course, where and how they should be investing in AI.

And for me that means I also get to cover agentic commerce as an area, which from a supply chain perspective is fascinating.

So prior to Gartner, I spent a good 25 years in retail, you know, at two great Minnesota companies.

I spent about 12 years at best Buy where I led Omnichannel fulfillment back in 2001.

I was part of the first Buy online pickup experience that was ever done at a retailer.

So going back a ways.

Oh my God.

And then I spent.

That's right.

Spent some time at, spent about a decade at Red Wing Shoes helping build the foundations for Omnichannel E commerce for them across their 500 or so stores.

So that's a little bit about me and Gartner.

Yeah, it's great.

Yeah.

I mean you, you, you see it all in your role.

There's quite a lot under your remit that you just described there.

That's why I think you're like the perfect host.

I was joking at the outset that I think I hit the guest lottery with this one and I, I think, I think that's going to prove to be true.

But chap.

I'm curious, please, for the audience too, because we have a lot of just like casual people that listen to our podcast that are just interested in retail and, and just get really excited about hearing how it's going to unfold in the future.

What is the quote unquote, Magic Quadrant and what magic quadrant are you working on?

So Gartner does, you know, over a hundred Magic Quadrants a year, which are really, you know, our analysis of a given software market and who are the top companies in that market.

It's actually get.

It gets confused as a product evaluation.

It's really a vendor evaluation in a given software market.

So for me, I cover distributed order management that helps retailers do stuff like ship from store and buy online, pick up in store, and then they get paired with a critical capabilities document, which is really a deep dive on all the product features that you know.

So a given company could say, well, I'm not interested in these features, so these might be a better set of vendors for me.

But it is a, it's Gartner's very thorough objective, you know, evaluation of a software market.

And who are the vendors that our clients should think, you know, should think about if they're investing in that market?

Yeah.

And you seem like the right person for the job given that you have click, click and collect experience going back to 2001 like that.

That's incredible.

That's incredible.

All right.

I don't normally do this, but I do want to touch on a topic that we talked about last week specifically because you're on the show today, and that is the Google's universal cart.

What's your whole take on that concept?

Are we headed down that road in the US One super app that does everything for us, you know, as Google's Env it or, you know, how do you think about that?

Yeah, you know, I am a bit torn on this one.

So as someone who covers agentic commerce from the supply chain side, I think it's another reason retailers need to get in the agentic commerce game.

And it's not so much about commerce right now on all these Google services, but being discovered in these services that I think it's really a discovery game.

It's not a commerce game.

And so yes, it's about product data, but it's also about supply chain data.

So people are asking product outcome questions, but they're asking those in the context of time horizons for those outcomes as well.

So I could say show me highly, highly rated 44 millimeter gravel bike tires that I can get by Friday.

Right.

And if your data is not accurate and compelling and, and discoverable, then you're not going to be considered in that, in that particular query.

So if Google's making discovery either easier by allowing me to throw multiple tires into my universal cart, I think that's another reason to get in the game.

But as a supply chain operator, I don't love this.

Okay, go.

So Google did the easy part, the discovery part, and now my multi item cart is going to four different merchants who don't love the fact that their average items per order probably just went down as a result of this.

Right.

Consumer isn't going to love four different fulfillment experiences that probably get executed at different levels.

And you know, Gartner research shows us that loyalty is formed through the execution of a promise.

But whose promise is this?

Is it Google's promise or is it the merchant's promise?

Because that gets really confusing because here I can use one credit card in this Google cart that's going to four different merchants.

I don't know how Google figured that out.

That's crazy.

But they did.

But from a consumer perspective, who just made this promise?

Did Google make it or did the merchants make it?

So I will be definitely watching with much interest to see how this plays out.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

And you're kind of on.

You kind of mentioned the same points that I mentioned last week too, you know, in terms of like wondering just how this all plays out in the, in the consumer's mind in terms of who they're going to hold accountable for it at the end of the day.

Because you're right.

You know, you're right, chap.

Like if I'm ordering four different things for four different merchants, you know, and they, and one of them or two of them arrives at a different time or of a different quality.

Yeah.

Who do I go to to complain about that?

It's gonna be, it's gonna be a much bigger hassle than I probably ever experienced previously, so.

All right, well, thanks, man.

I just wanted to touch on that because I thought your experience level was pretty unique to that question.

And I love how you brought the supply chain angle into it too, because I don't think we touched on that at all in last week's episode.

Well, are you ready to get to this week's show?

Let's get it on.

All right, let's get to this week's Fast 5, which is of course brought to you with the help and support of the A and M consumer and retail group, Miracle Corso, Ocampo Capital and Valoc.

In this week's Fast5, we've got news on Amazon expanding fresh grocery same day delivery in London, New York passing legislation to curb personalized or so called surveillance pricing.

Amazon rolling out new AI driven visual search features in its shopping app, a new startup called the Mall that wants to be the Spotify of online shopping.

And Duvo CEO Tom Cooper joins us for five insightful minutes on what he is seeing in the market in terms of retailers abilities to adapt AI solutions for their organizational benefit.

But we begin today with Walmart doing something no major retailer has ever done before delivering restaurant meals straight to your door alongside your groceries.

Headline number one is of course brought to you by the A and M Consumer and Retail Group.

The A and M Consumer and Retail Group is a management consulting firm that tackles the most complex challenges and advances its clients, people and communities toward their maximum potential.

CRG brings the experience, tools and operator like pragmatism to help retailers and consumer products companies be on the right side of disruption all right chap, here we go.

Headline number one.

Walmart is now delivering Subway sandwiches directly to customers through the Walmart app and Walmart.com, marking the first time a major retailer has integrated made to order restaurant meals into its Express Delivery service.

Announced during Walmart's Shareholders Week In Bentonville on June 4, the service allows customers in select markets to order freshly made Subway meals for delivery in as little as 30 minutes on their own or bundled alongside groceries, prescriptions and household staples through Walmart's existing Express delivery service.

The service has been tested in Connecticut and Dallas thus far, and Walmart plans to expand it to approximately 1400 Walmart Supercenter locations where Subway franchises operate inside the stores by the end of the summer.

This move also puts Walmart in more direct competition with UberEats and DoorDash as it now combines grocery and meal delivery under a single transaction and app experience with further room to grow over time.

Because according to friend of OmniTok Walmart SVP Greg Cathy quote Almost all quick service restaurant brands are within five miles of a Walmart store.

End quote.

Chap.

Walmart has officially entered the food delivery wars.

Is subway delivery a flash in the pan or a sign of yet another consequential growth strategy for Walmart?

Wow.

So Chris, I'd have to say uber eats and DoorDash.

I hope you are paying attention because wow, a shot has been fired across your bow.

You know, delivery infrastructure seems to be Walmart's flywheel right now, so this clearly makes sense for them.

With basket size more reason to shop there.

Free delivery of the Subway if you're Pairing it with groceries so it gets more use cases into this delivery flywheel.

And of course the biggest use case of all in delivery for fast delivery is restaurants.

And when you pair this with the drone infrastructure as well, your head starts to explode with the possibilities.

So yes to Subway, but a bigger yes to Jimmy John's and Jersey Mike's, etc.

If Walmart can figure out a middle mile infrastructure that connects the delivery execution from Walmart to stores surrounding the restaurants, yes.

Now all of a sudden Walmart is your super app for food delivery.

The downside here I see is that Walmart is attaching their delivery execution to Subway's execution.

Right.

And any other restaurant that comes into this, something I am sure that they will monitor.

But if delivery is the thing that's building trust and improving repeat purchase rate, which is what Walmart said in their last quarterly earnings, then be careful here.

But overall, as a retail supply chain guy, I love seeing retailers make hay with their supply chain assets and nobody has that more dialed in than Walmart right now.

Yeah, Chad, I'm curious that, that the point about the drone thing is really interesting.

I hadn't thought about that either.

So, like what, so you know, delivering Subway out of the store is one thing.

Coordinating deliveries with, you know, existing retailers around a Walmart is another thing.

And then coordinating drone deliveries from a Walmart with those existing retailers is then a third thing.

So what are some of the complications that arise as you go from, you know, each of those, you know, as, as Walmart?

Yeah, well, I, I, I think obviously, you know, Walmart's scaling drone drones aggressively because they've got parking lots, right.

They've got the infrastructure.

And I think the complicating factor on how, how do we connect more delivery use cases and then we pair it with drones is like, well what is this?

Weren't, you know, how do we get drones into some of these other locations that aren't going to have that kind of real estate to do that with.

Which is where I think there needs to be some interesting middle mile infrastructure that might not be drones.

It might be motorcycles or bikes.

Right.

That's connecting the, the food service with the main delivery infrastructure.

Because obviously we still gotta execute on speed here.

So we can't like make milk runs over five hours to pick up food orders and then bring them back to Walmart.

So it's going to be a super complicated dance.

But I mean if anyone can figure out that dance, I would think it would be, it would be Walmart.

Yeah, but Chad, I think to your point too, I think we also, you know, it's interesting to me, like they said 1400 subway locations, you know, in a Walmart store there's probably X number of the 4600 Walmart Super Centers that have, you know, restaurants in the same strip mall as them as well, where that parking lot is very readily available to them to then tie into the drones too.

So it doesn't necessarily need to be an all or nothing thing, which I'd never thought about until you just said that because, you know, there's probably some subset of stores where this is going to work.

And you know, for that reason, I'm with you, man.

I think, I think this is a brilliant extension and it's something that I actually have firsthand experience trying to get going at Target too.

But the first thing I'd say about it is it's like you said, it makes you really sticky to Walmart if they pull it off because food delivery is something especially in those higher income demographics which Walmart's also trying to push its way into.

They come, if you're using food delivery sometimes you're doing it multiple times a week, more often than you're probably interacting with Walmart on a given week.

And then the other thing too I talk about in the delivery space is, you know, the size of the basket is so integral to making that delivery profitable.

So even if, you know, even if you take the drones part out of it in the long run, there's still just good economics here in terms of what they're trying to do just even with Subway out of their stores.

So you get the basket size increase, that's what you want.

And then the other thing too, I'll say in closing, and then we'll move on is I think if you're keeping score at home, you have to keep score at home here because just between this show and last week alone, I want to, I just want to break down Walmart's growth strategies.

I did it a little bit last week, but you've got Walmart's marketplace, you've got them going up market with Walmart plus, which they also just took to Canada, which didn't even make this week's Fast five headlines.

You've got the convenience play with drones overall just for the average convenience purchase.

And now you've got restaurant delivery and the future of restaurant delivery too.

And all of those, all of those, when they're working together, expand your retail media reach too, which means you're going to get even more profit.

So it's perfect synergy.

And it's, it's just a testament, like you said, to how Walmart is humming on their fulfillment capabilities right now.

Chad.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Watch out world.

Walmart seems to have it dialed in right now.

100.

100.

All right Chris.

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Nicely done on that read.

Nicely done.

Headline number two, Amazon has launched Fresh Grocery Same day delivery in parts of London, allowing customers ineligible postcodes to add perishable items like produce, meat, dairy and frozen foods to the same basket as millions of other Amazon products for delivery within hours.

According to Amazon blog posts, the service is initially live in parts of central and East London with plans to expand to additional postcodes and more areas across the UK in the coming months.

Prime members get free same day delivery on orders over £20 with fresh groceries now included at no additional delivery fee.

Non prime customers pay a 599 delivery fee regardless of basket size.

This launch builds on Amazon's broader UK grocery expansion which includes Amazon now growing Amazon Fresh selection and partnerships with Morrisons Co Op, Iceland and Gopuff and Whole Food Market stores in the uk.

Chris, how significant is Fresh same day delivery grocery in the UK for the future of grocery retail globally?

And how closely should U S grocers be watching Amazon's moves overseas?

Oh my God.

A two parter chap.

All right.

I mean I think you've got to watch it closely and I think it's a very significant move.

That's, that's what I think here.

And I say that for, I say that for two reasons.

You know, number one, you know, their strategies are this strategy is already being deployed in the us.

This is funny that this is actually one time where we're seeing something come to the US before it comes to Europe, especially in grocery.

That's what's so fascinating to me about this story.

And then the second thing I'd say is, and for that reason is like the online grocery market in the UK is so much more entrenched.

But it's, I was talking to friends of mine out here at Shop Talk Europe about this to make sure I had this right and they said I did but, but it's really based on next day.

Like an ocado is really the, you know the winner and Tesco is the winner there in terms of next day grocery delivery.

So if Amazon can actually make a chunk or a sizable dent in same day or make that the consumer expectation via just.

Even if it's just the add ons like the milk with the electronics purchase like we hear in the States here all the time, the Andy Jassy's always trying to hype up, then I think there's a real there there and it all comes back to me.

Chap to the long game.

We've talked about this on past shows but for Amazon it's just about winning the war of attrition, the slow kill, the death by a thousand cuts.

But over time then Amazon becomes the default grocery fulfillment for all regional grocers, both in the US particularly but then also the smaller grocers in the UK too who are already becoming part of their marketplace.

I think Morrison's part of their marketplace if I'm not mistaken.

And so you know, if they do that, you know, 10 to 15 years from now all of those retailers are going to be less and less valuable in the market and Amazon can either buy them on the cheap or just watch them go out of business.

I think that's what Amazon's play is here.

But what do you think?

Interesting.

Yeah, you know, so the Walmart move made a ton of sense because we're pairing more food with food.

It's the same use case, I need food now on Amazon we're mixing use cases, I need food and a phone charger now of course, as you said, we have seen Amazon do this in the US and it worked.

Right.

Amazon reported they met their expansion targets of the same day and with people ordering perishable items with normal Amazon items and they reported customers coming back at 2x the rate of customers who didn't.

So they did prove that it works.

Right.

So it didn't make sense to me at the beginning but like the consumers are, it's, it's resonating.

But the nuance here is the market.

As you said, the US online grocery market is in a period of rapid growth.

Right.

Of and the consumer is more open to experimenting with online grocery.

And so that's driving trial in the uk growth rates are much more modest, the market's much more mature.

So Amazon's going to have to steal market share to make this work.

Right.

And the data supports the customer adoption and the retention.

But here I've got to go steal it from more entrenched players to make it grow in the market so that's to me the challenge for Amazon here if I zoom out to the macro.

Amazon Grocery Delivery vs Omni Channel Grocery delivery.

I still place my bet on omnichannel grocery LED delivery because of this.

Right.

So we've been selling stuff online for 25 plus years and we're at 20 to 40% penetration rates given the category.

Right, right.

But the consumer, so the consumer did not stop shopping at stores and will not stop shopping at stores, especially grocery stores.

So in the long game, I give better chances to those that can execute both offline and online at a high level.

But note that I said at a high level because just because you have both channels does not mean success.

And we know Amazon can execute at a super high level.

So this is the key issue for grocers in the long game is you need to execute at the same high level as Amazon in order to retain this omnichannel advantage.

It can't just be about your in store experience because consumers have this great option online option over here on Amazon and if that gets really good, yeah, they are going to stop shopping as frequently in your stores.

So that's the super interesting long game I think that's being played here.

Yeah, yeah.

Or, or if I say it another way, you can't just dig in your, dig your head in the sand if you happen to run stores and think the stores are going to save you.

Which is what, you know, we saw the industry do for all of the 2000s.

Really, you know.

Right.

Chap.

That's kind of what you're saying again.

But yeah, the other point about this too, which I want to go, I want to go retail wonk a little bit too.

And Chad, I think you'll appreciate this too.

The one thing that we're not so certain about in the media and in terms of covering Amazon is, you know, how well is this strategy actually doing?

Because you know, they keep talking about the essentials too, as it was really written in this headline to you.

And they talk about their, their market share in grocery being very high.

But generally speaking, that's driven by the essentials purchases and by the essentials, I mean, not all the stuff you can find in a grocery store, but not the food.

Right.

You know, it's like the dishwashing detergent, the stuff that you're going to go, the laundry, the laundry detergent, the soap, that kind of stuff.

So, and that might still be working like this.

Like the, you can get your, you can get your dishwasher soap with your electronics.

Yeah, sure, right.

But like Is that really grocery?

I don't know.

Time's going to tell.

But I think that's one caveat I would say, you know, as we're seeing these moves from Amazon, it's a little unclear to me, you know, exactly how well it's.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.

It goes back to the definition of Omni Channel all products to all consumers across all sales channels.

And the Amazon experience doesn't quite feel like Omni Channel grocery right now.

It feels like a part of the grocery store which goes back to the point of like if you can, if you are a store based grocer and you can pull off Omni Channel, you know, I give, I give the nod to those folks.

Right, right.

Yeah, yeah.

Because it is different delivering ice cream, you know, as an example with your electronics than it is say so.

All right, let's keep rolling.

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Headline number three.

New York legislators have passed the One Fair Price act, making New York the third state in the nation after Maine and Connecticut to pass legislation limiting companies from using consumer data to set personalized prices, according to Chain Storage.

The bill passed on June 4th and now heads to New York's governor for consideration.

The legislation targets what advocates call surveillance pricing, which is the practice of using AI and algorithms to analyze a consumer's browsing history, real time location, inferred family size or income to set individualized prices or discounts.

The bill does, however, carve out an exception for what it calls bonafide discounts.

That is sales coupons and loyalty programs are preserved, which was a key concern raised by critics who argue the legislation could eliminate consumer friendly targeted offers.

Notably, Colorado recently vetoed a similar surveillance pricing bill.

And California and New Jersey are both currently considering comparable legislation making this a fast moving patchwork of state level action.

Chap.

This is.

You're the lucky, the lucky winner this week.

You get the.

You get the A and M. Consumer and retail groups put you on the spot question.

All right, here it is.

This one, this one's a.

They went, they went in a different angle this week too.

Chap.

So better you than me on this one.

So here it is.

They said, quote, you can't stop him.

You can Only hope to contain him was a popular Dan Patrick catchphrase on SportsCenter in the 1990s.

God, I just read this.

I have no idea where this is going to go.

And that was to describe the dominant athletic forces who were simply too big or too strong to neutralize.

So their question is, in 10 years, who will we say was more difficult to contain comparatively?

Michael Jordan or AI?

Okay, that's from left field.

Chris.

I.

So I lived in Chicago in the late 90s, so I had the privilege of seeing Jordan live.

Wow.

Incredible.

So the easy answer to this question is AI.

However, the key point in the question was in 10 years, which makes me more skeptical, actually.

Really?

So from my vantage point at Gartner, yes, AI is everywhere in our discussions, but the reality is, in my domain and supply chain, only 17% of AI pilots are scaling successfully in the supply chain right now.

Only 23% of supply chains have a formal AI strategy.

Only 23%.

Right, right, right.

So.

And the gap between what the vendors say you can do with AI and what folks are actually doing with AI has never been larger.

And if we're going to get AI in this dominant position where it really changes your operating model, you have to give AI some big, big decision rights.

That's going to take time, a long time to get right.

So maybe I'm giving the edge to MJ here.

Okay.

Wow.

Okay, wait.

Okay, so first of all, I want to say, so the goat, Michael Jordan still beats AI.

Wow.

That tells you how.

That tells you.

It tells you how awesome Michael Jordan was as a basketball player.

What it.

What it also tells me is that, you know, and the reason for the A M Consumer Retail Group's question is like, you know, I think they're kind of, you know, you know, asking like, you know, what's the point if AI is going to always be, you know, out there and such an important thing in terms of how retailers do business, how consumers interact with things, is it even possible to keep up?

And your point.

Your point that I'm hearing you say is, yeah, there actually may be a point to trying to keep up with it because it may not happen as quickly as we think it's going to.

And so then my question to you comes down to, if you look back at the legislation like I just described in the headline, what do you think it gets right and what do you think it gets wrong when it comes to regulating pricing as it's trying to do across retail?

Yeah.

You know, Chris, I think it's sad that we need legislation to deal with these kinds of issues.

You know, while dynamic pricing is happening all around us, right?

Concert tickets, hotels, Uber rides, like, the consumer remains very sensitive to this issue on product pricing.

And smart retailers would tread very carefully here without the need for some law to prevent them from doing so.

My advice to a retailer would be to lean into personalization in other ways that can still drive margin optimization.

And we know that personalization overall as a strategy works.

Like Gartner research says, consumers are 1.3 times more likely to make a purchase when it is personalized.

And for me, so I'll just give you an example as a supply chain guy, personalization could be about how do we use supply chain data to personalize and optimize the fulfillment offer itself, right?

We know the consumer wants personalized delivery experiences.

So I actually did some consumer research on this last year where we asked consumers about speed over reliability and accuracy.

Reliability was actually more appealing than raw speed.

And that, but that, that, that accuracy, that, that's personalization, right?

That's the promise for you based on where you are.

And we know conversion rates go up 3 to 7% when we personalize the, the delivery estimate on the product detail page.

And you know, when I talk to retailers who are always right, complaining about the speed expectations that Amazon sets, you know, my, my, my comeback to them is, well, Amazon set another expectation for the consumer, and that's the personalization of the delivery offer, right?

We all get a different delivery experience based on where we're browsing from and our browsing history, our order history, et cetera.

So that expectation has been set for the consumer as well, which is an area I think retailers can lean into.

Right?

And when we shift our thinking this way to using supply chain data to help personalize the offer, that, that's, that, that's a mar.

That's a margin driver.

So when I, when I search for men's khaki pants on your website, like today, that's a merchant's job to figure out which five pairs of pants appear above the fold.

But what about using supply chain data too?

You know which, in which of these pants are in stock near you that I can deliver at a more profitable cost.

Like.

So this is just like one example of personalization that I think retailers can be leaning into that stays away from this red line of dynamic product pricing that I think retailers, smart retailers will avoid.

And now, you know, unfortunately, it seems like some states are jumping ahead to ensure that the not smart retailers will not cross this line even if they try.

So that's my take on it.

Right, right.

Yeah.

And, yeah, no, you're bringing up good points, too.

And then, like, where does, where does, like, the shipping costs fall into this legislation too?

Like, is that a product price or is that something that's happening ancillary from all this?

Like, it gets really complicated really fast.

And so, like, you know, I think overall it's, it's grounded in the right direction as an idea.

And I think what they're trying to prevent is like the Instacart example that we had on the show a couple months ago where there was just blatantly different prices for different people.

And so I'm all for, you know, protecting that, but the couple of things I would say, just for anyone, you know, listening, particularly if you're in government and you're thinking about doing this, like, the one thing that is driving me absolutely crazy now is all the negative blowback on ESLs, particularly around dynamic prices.

Because if you think that that's going to happen, you're just totally, you're just, you're not getting it because that's not how retail works.

No retailer is going to put dynamic pricing down their aisles, you know, as different individuals are coming down them.

So it's just not going to happen.

So just stop, you know, stumping that.

But, you know, I think with this, I think there, there is some, there is some things here and I think you've got to keep.

So I'm all for using.

I'm.

I had this conversation with Scott Price of the, he's, he's a CEO over in, in Asia of a DFI group.

And he said, like, yes, we have to be very smart about how we monitor our reg pricing and the personal data we're using to decide what those reg prices are.

But we have to have the ability to, you know, make the promotional decisions that we want to make because that's where the merchant really comes into play.

And it sounds like the legislation, for the most part, you know, has got that, you know, and the legislation that we just described is thinking about that, you know, that they're still allowing that to happen.

So that, so that's good.

The part, the part that sticks with me, though, is the whole geography thing.

I think, you know, the geography thing is just really tricky, you know, I mean, you know, because like, if you're a store, if you're a store in.

I'll just make states up, Seattle versus Arizona.

Those stores are gonna have different prices.

And so, like online, you're gonna have different prices based on that geography.

Too.

And so, so I think that is a very complicating factor for retailers to get around and is going to be very hamstringing for, for them as well.

And so the legislation, you know, in that regard doesn't appear to answer that for me, Chad.

Yeah, no, I agree.

And yeah, where do we, like you mentioned shipping costs?

Like we've been charging more for Alaska Hanawaii shipments for like two decades.

Right.

Because we're penalizing people that live there.

Right.

So.

Right, yeah, it's already happening.

It's happening already.

So that's a really good point.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yep.

All right, Chad, before we get to headline number four, let's welcome Tom on today's program.

All right.

Joining us now for five insightful minutes is Tom Cooper.

Tom Cooper is the CEO of Duvo and he's here to give us an update on what he's seeing in the market in terms of retailers abilities to adapt to AI solutions to their organizational benefit.

Tom, how are you doing?

Yeah, I'm good.

Good to see you again, Chris.

How are you?

You too.

Yeah, no, it's been, I'm really excited about this interview.

And we are also live from Shop Talk Europe too in the speakers lounge.

So we're coming at you fresh and bright eyed and bushy tailed on this Wednesday morning.

All right, Tom, let's start with this.

I haven't stopped talking about our interview, you know, the one we did back in March, the one we did earlier this year.

So remind our audience of who you are and what it is that Duvo does first.

Yeah.

So I'm Tom and I'm the founder of great European retailer 2 billion and delivering amazing food to people where I've learned that.

And what is the name of that company?

It's called Rohli.

I mean like nobody knows that.

Some random 2 billion dollar Europe, European retailer.

But I've seen so much pain when I observed people working for that company.

It's essentially endless hell of emails and Excel files and dashboards and Chrome tabs and SAP.

So I also co founded Duvo and Duvo solves all of that.

So we identify processes that are automatable in companies, we suggest how to optimize them and we just run them after that.

Right.

That's what Duo does.

Yeah.

And AI is actually making that possible.

And that's what stood out to me when we spoke back in March.

Because my big takeaway was that you help to take away the least glamorous tasks in retail.

The things that people either forget to do or don't want to do.

And why is that such an important element of what it is that Duvo's doing?

Because, you know, ultimately this is where value is not created.

Right.

And I would assume from what we observed that at least half of the time super smart people spend time on is this is being human API between systems that don't talk to each other.

Right.

And I think that that's why, because if you, if you think about this, if you double the capacity of your smart people, how much better retailer you could actually be.

Right?

And then if you think about it further, what if the AI could do things that you don't do today at all?

Right.

So many processes get overlooked, so many things don't do, or so many processes are not run at scale.

You know, you maybe look at the biggest fires, but not all of the cases.

So I think this is why it's important.

It just gives you the unlimited workforce in a way, both on a human side, but also on the AI side.

Yeah, that's interesting too.

You said we don't create value from that work, but we leak a lot of value from that work, I imagine too.

Right.

All right, so I'm curious too.

I wanted to ask you this.

So founder, retailer, tech company, what vantage point does that give you relative to how the marketplace is operating in terms of how they're thinking about AI?

I think ultimately, I'm not naive, right?

Like running AI in production at large scale, where you actually rely on the AI not to break the company.

I think that's something you have to understand from inside.

It's not like, hey, hey, I have a couple agents, do you want to kind of deploy them in the company?

It may work, may not, let's see.

Right?

That's the posture that I see a lot in the market.

Let's do a poc.

Great.

But ultimately, if you deploy AI on your most critical business processes, it needs to run 10,000 times per day, super reliably for years.

Right.

And I think that's just very unique vantage point.

Also.

There's like a clear advantage of understanding that nobody wants to change their systems.

Right?

So it's kind of.

I see a lot of startups, right?

Hey, hey, so just change your system.

I have this new erp and your problems will be gone.

And I'm like, that's gonna cost me $50 million and two years of time.

No, thank you.

Right.

So it's kind of just like we always knew we have to work on top of existing systems.

Right?

Because once you talk about some SAP integration Change of erp.

No sane enterprise will touch you.

So I think that's also fairly unique understanding.

Yeah, that's funny because I was gonna ask.

That was going to be.

My next question is.

Okay.

You know, you have that unique kind of blend of roles here.

And I was curious what advantage it plays on the software side too.

And I think you hit it.

It's like you have an understanding of what you're actually going to be able to sell into a retailer.

I think there's one more.

Okay,.

I understand there's still gonna be people in the company.

Right.

What I see a lot of tech companies kind of assuming is, hey, you know, guess what?

I'm just gonna automate your 20 billion enterprise with agents so you can get rid of everybody.

And that's funny.

Right.

And if you have that understanding, there's still gonna be people.

Right.

You have to build both for people and agents.

Right.

And you're trying to create the environment where people are becoming almost like agent operators.

Right.

As opposed to replacing everybody or automating everything.

And that's, I think, also driven by knowing the company, like retail company from inside.

You know full well when you're inside, you're not going to automate everything.

Yeah.

And that's what I learned from you the first time, particularly in the first wave of AI.

Like, the first wave of AI to do this.

Right.

Is going to make your people better at what they do.

And that's the right way to think about it first versus like going at it from like, how do I just reduce headcount with deployment of AI?

It's really about how do you make your people do more work more efficiently to find the value that they're not creating and also the value that they're leaking.

Back to the point where said at the beginning.

Yeah.

And maybe deploy AI on processes you've never run because you didn't have enough people.

Right.

But I think retail is inherently quite efficient.

I mean, we're leaking tons of value.

Right.

But everybody has been through decades of optimizations.

Right.

Like, the margin is so thin that there is super hard to find.

I mean, if you go to banking.

Yeah.

I mean, if you have.

If you have 3,000 people more than you should have, like the PNL is not going to really know that.

Right, Right.

But in retail, that's the difference between making a profit and making a loss.

So I think inherently trying to find ROI in headcount savings is a false pretense here.

Well, that's really interesting too.

Yeah.

And the other thing about retail Too that I think is fascinating is just there's so many touch points and so many different things that are happening because people that are new to retail always say that to me.

Like I had no idea how complicated it is because it is, it's probably one of the most complicated industries when you think about production, getting things to the shelf and getting things home to the customer.

All right, so on that note, the last question I'm going to ask you and because we were talking beforehand and I know you guys are getting some good traction, you've got some big clients already underway.

What is the biggest mistake you're seeing clients make in regards to trying to implement the ideas that you're putting in front of them?

I think ultimately when we're involved, the mistakes don't happen.

Okay, Right.

But what I see retailers getting wrong is doing these 10 year strategies,.

Two.

Year data cleanups and the world is moving too fast.

Yeah.

Like, you know, by the time you're done with your 10 year old strategy, you're gonna be left behind.

And I think that that's the biggest mistake.

Like there is a technology very capable today of doing what you need.

Right.

Yes, it's important to have strategy, but like the technology will be different in two years.

Right.

So you're gonna redo that anyway.

So maybe let's do one year strategy, two year strategy.

You know, let's figure out tools for the job right now and then, and then take it from there.

I think that's the biggest mistake also AI because it can reason doesn't need such a clean data as maybe the previous wave of technology.

Right.

So I think it's kind of like every retailer is six months away from clean database.

Right.

Like never going to happen.

I'm tired of talking about it, to be honest.

You don't need that.

You don't need that with current technology.

And it's just holding you back if you think about it.

So I think that's, that's also a huge mistake that I'm seeing.

So when you go into those meetings and you're pitching this to folks, do you have to kind of rewire their brains around that, particularly around the time horizon, or are people starting to get that?

I think so.

I think our pitch is in a way fairly unique because what we say is what's your messiest process you really hate?

And then we show them how to, how we automate it in like three, four weeks.

Okay.

And that rewires the brain.

Like talking about things.

Don't rewire the brain.

Like seeing is believing.

And that's what we are trying to show people in retail management.

Okay, awesome.

Well, Tom, thank you.

Thanks for making time out of your busy schedule at Shop Talk Europe.

You're gonna be on stage later, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Excited and looking forward.

Yeah, I can't wait to see what they're saying.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, great.

Anytime.

Welcome back.

Anytime, man.

Best of luck.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, Chris.

Headline number four is brought to you by Ocampo Capital.

Ocampo Capital is a venture capital firm founded by retail executives with the aim of helping early stage consumer businesses succeed through investment and operational support.

Learn more@ocampocapital.com all right, our fourth headline today is Amazon has expanded its AI driven visual search capabilities in its shopping app, rolling out three new features that make product discovery a more intuitive image.

First experience According to Chainstore age, Amazon offers three new visual search functions inside its app.

First, real time AI generated images.

As customers search using descriptive language, AI generated images take shape in real time in the suggestions below the search bar.

Shifting and refining with each word typed.

Consumers can then tap a generated image and shop for visually similar products.

Second, shop by style curated outfit search.

Consumers searching for apparel and accessories will now see AI generated shoppable collages in search results labeled shop by style, organized by themes like urban luxe, soft elegance.

Tapping a collage leads to a curated page where consumers could shop items, explore similar products, or swipe between styles.

Third, visual selections suggestions.

When customers type a broad visual description like flannel shirt, Amazon surfaces descriptive visual filters while they're typing, allowing customers to select an image that reflects, finds their search and browse a narrated selection.

Chris, it has been a while since I remember you talking about visual search on this podcast.

So are you buying or selling Amazon's new visual search capabilities?

Wow.

Oh, man.

Yeah, this is.

This is the problem I have when I bring a frequent listener on as guest host.

He knows the content.

The content and what.

How we've been talking about it in the past.

You know, Chad, I'm still buying this.

I'm still buying this.

And I say that, you know, bringing people way back in history.

The very first video that I ever shot for Omnitalk was of Amazon's visual search capabilities.

I walked into a Starbucks store, took a photo of the Starbucks coffee bag, and showed how Amazon could deliver the product for less than it would cost me to buy it directly from the Starbucks in which I was having my coffee.

Ouch.

Yeah, right.

And I did that at Macy's too.

Macy's hated me for that.

So now when I think about the more robust capabilities that are at play here, you know, in the long run, particularly with AI Going back to the Universal card thing we talked at the beginning, and particularly with Buy for me from Amazon coming into play, I think you have to take this really seriously, especially with Amazon, you know, essentially ostensibly making its own play to be kind of the first product search super app, you know, because, you know, you're buying it from Amazon.

Back to what you said at the outset, Chap, I think that gives Amazon a very, you know, strong position here.

And the other thing I'll say, too, producer Ellen and I were talking before the show, and so I'm curious to get her take at the end of the show, too.

We were talking at the end, before the show about, like, what I heard at Shop Talk Europe, and I heard Nadine Graff from Estee Lauder, their head of Europe for Estee Lauder, and she's like, talking about how, you know, it's kind of the.

Kind of the theme or the takeaway I got from her was kind of like, you know, we're probably gonna have a day where every retailer's on Amazon.

That's where this is headed, because there's kind of no reason not to be anymore if you think.

If you start really going down that rabbit hole.

And so for that reason, I like this move because, you know, if I can just get.

If I can just know that Amazon is going to have the products I want, they're going to fulfill it the way I want, then whether it's apparel, beauty, this type of capability will help, provided that they can do it in a way that people want to interact with it.

That's my take.

But what do you think?

Yeah, so the last thing you said there was probably the kicker that I'll get to in a minute.

And so your Starbucks example, you love.

What I love about Amazon's image recognition.

You take a picture of something, you find it on Amazon.

Wicked cool.

Yeah.

This announcement is not that.

Right.

This is AI image generation that helps you shop visually on the discovery side.

So you have a picture in your head, but you don't know the right words to describe it.

And then.

So this helps you get there.

It's another shopping tool.

We expect this from Amazon.

It's smart.

I agree.

I'm not sure it's a game changer that drives improved conversion and retention, but it is another reason to stay in Amazon's ecosystem because they make discovery and shopping easy.

Like, it's another tool.

So kudos to them on that front.

Yeah, I think one interesting angle here to be careful about if I'm Amazon.

So at Gartner, I cover retail returns trends.

And as you know, Chris, returns are not retailers, friends.

These days return rates are near 20% of overall E commerce returns.

Like, it's a huge number.

And the research says that retailers are still in control of many of the reasons that things get returned.

Okay, and here we are adding another potential reason why someone's going to return something.

Because if the matching product inferred from the generated AI image isn't exactly right, I just created a return.

Right.

So, you know, Lord knows my wife would never let me use a feature like this to shop.

I just know that.

Right.

So it cool factor 100%.

But let's watch the execution because we are adding an AI generated image that is based off of some consumer's natural language to like, then get me to the product.

Like they're.

We're adding a piece of technology in the middle on that discovery process.

That is brand new.

Right.

And so how does that, how does that, does that create another point of friction or a possible return?

That's something I'm interested in seeing.

Yeah, you're adding an uncontrollable.

You know, that is something that's at play.

All right, you said you're going to come back to it at the end.

The kicker, what was the kick, what was your take on the kicker there chapter?

Well, the kicker being, yes, we're making discovery and shopping easy to stay in the ecosystem.

But if we're adding confusion to that process, then I get concerned.

And we already know there is friction.

Like today we get on Amazon and we have to sort through sponsored products.

Right.

I mean, in order to get to the thing that we want to buy.

Let's be fair, Amazon has created some friction in that process because we have lots of sponsored products that we have to get through.

Now.

This AI image generation feature should be an additive benefit to the consumer.

Right.

But it's an unknown.

Right?

How is it actually going to get executed?

So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that's, that's why I'm dying to get producer Ella in here at the end of the show because I'm curious, like, how much do you look for apparel on Amazon now?

And would you think this type of feature is going to work?

But.

All right, let's keep rolling though.

Headline number five, Headline number five is brought to you by the lockdown.

Valack is a proven E grocery technology built for grocers by grocers.

Exactly the type of technology we like here at omnitalk.

They unite proprietary software with right size automation to make same day delivery profitable.

To learn more, visit Voloc.com that's V E L O Q.com headline number five a new startup called the Mall has launched an app that aims to be a universal shopping feed, a kind of Spotify for online retail, if you will, letting users follow their favorite brands, track sales and product drops, and discover new products across more than 10,000 retailers all in one place.

According to TechCrunch, the mall was founded in October 25 by co founder and CEO Shreya Halder, a Stanford computer science grad.

So you know, it just must be awesome.

Chap and co founder and CEO Ellie Konskar, who previously worked at Tom Ford and Carla Otto.

The two connected through a female founder circle in Los Angeles.

Rather than using brand APIs or affiliate partnerships.

The Mall scrapes retail websites frequently enough to track sales restocks, drops and promotions, and alerts users via push notifications when users are ready to buy.

A browser opens inside the app and takes them directly to the brand's site to check out.

The app is currently live only in beta and is invite only, and it's currently being tested with 4,500 early users, but it's expected to be broadly available by the end of the summer.

Chap the Mall is pitching itself as a solution to the fragmented, multi tab online shopping experience.

Does this startup have legs to reshape how people discover and shop online?

Or is it too easy for Amazon, Google or even TikTok to replicate and ultimately destroy it in one fell swoop?

So Chris, I had not heard of this prior to this podcast.

I went checked it out.

I guess I'm on the wait list now.

I found it odd that I have to, you know, get on a wait list to experience this product, but I'm on the list.

I guess.

I am not optimistic on this one.

On its surface now they call it the Spotify for shopping.

I don't love that analogy because we're talking content versus products.

Very different, right?

And I'm not going to go I'm not creating a playlist of pants anytime soon.

So it's broader than the Google Universal cart thing though, because it does allow you to build a mall of brands versus specific products.

So that's interesting.

But then it also does some of the things same things that Universal Google's cart does, which is like watch for price, dropped price drops and in stock alerts.

So I'm Tom, I'll be honest.

I'm probably not the target demographic of this product, so it's tough for me to say it's a good bet.

But right now, I fall on the skeptical side of this thing.

And the monetization side of this looks to be a B2B model where they're selling data to retailers.

So we need lots of scale on the consumer side for that monetization to work.

And right now, I don't see the compelling consumer angle that drives that kind of scale.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I think I agree.

I think I agree with you.

The one point I don't agree with you necessarily is what you said at the beginning.

Like, I think, I think there is some aspect of the future of retail online merchandising being driven by content.

So I think there is some analogies with the Spotify.

But that's also why I want to hold Ella's commentary on the last headline until we get to this headline, because I think there's, there's some overlaps here in terms of how this all could play out.

But I, I think fundamentally, I do agree with you.

If I had a nickel for every time I covered a story like this on the podcast in the Omnitalk Fast Five history, I'd probably have, you know, truthfully, 20 cents because I feel like it happens every year to two years, but it's still pretty regularly, when you think about it, when this type of thing is breaking and getting the coverage it is.

The last one I remember of any substance was Verishop, but I haven't heard word one about Verishop, you know, since it came on the scene with similar fanfare.

So, so I'm, I'm, I'm actually going to be pretty, you know, pretty blunt.

I give this zero chance.

But, but I do think it's.

The reason that I want to include it this week is even though I'm not long on it, I think it is important to highlight because it, the story itself highlights where things are going and the problems that the bigger platforms are going to set out to try and solve, which, you know, it's like Amazon, if you go back to the last headline, is kind of trying to solve this in some ways, or you could see how they will pivot in a similar direction over time.

And, and so, and the other thing too is, I feel like, I hate to say it, but I feel like a smart person, probably smarter than me, could probably program Claude to do this for themselves, just as a personal feature for them, you know, you know, day in and day out if they're really inclined to want to shop this way.

Right.

But.

But I don't know.

Producer Ella, what do you.

What do you think here?

You know, like, what's your.

What's your take on.

On shopping apparel on Amazon and also on the mall?

Yeah, the mall headline is really interesting to me.

I think it might honestly come down to the marketing of this, because if.

If they can get me to the platform, maybe it's a go.

However, I. I'm interested to know what.

What the difference is.

Chap.

Kind of to your point.

It just feels kind of like I'm already doing this, you know, on Google or Amazon itself.

Yeah, there's some pretty big discovery ecosystems that we're all familiar with right now.

So how is this one going to create really differentiated consumer value?

That's.

That's what's not clear yet.

But, you know, I'm on the wait list, so it's hard for me to know what's out there.

But once I click into it, I'd love to see what they're up to.

Yeah, good to.

Good.

Good to Whoever's running their PR for getting them in TechCrunch, too.

You got to wonder if there's some connections there at the TechCrunch media staff.

But, Ella, I'm curious, too.

What about Amazon?

Like, do you.

Do you shop for apparel now on Amazon?

I do.

I actually have this as.

As my.

My favorite headline of the week, so I might as well just jump in.

Let's just do it.

Let's just do it now.

Yeah, let's do it now.

I feel like kind of a broken record because every time it's the favorite headline, it's talking about this type of search.

Right.

Like, I'm searching for a coastal grandma rain jacket, but cooler, like, the most specific thing ever.

Are you really.

Are you really doing that?

100%.

A coastal grandma rain jacket.

Coastal.

I wanted to make sure I heard that right.

Yeah, I was glad you repeated it because I didn't want to accidentally say it wrong.

Right.

But it's using that third party of getting to someone's Amazon storefront who maybe already shopped, sort of like a merchant that I can, you know, shop what that person likes that's maybe labeled as cool girl grandma jackets.

Right, Right.

So I think if they can figure out this search function, it might.

It might become the creator I'm looking for just within their own sight.

So I think they're onto something.

And this honestly reminds me, too.

I'm gonna plug one of My good friends here, but Mary Corland Downs, she just hosted the Fashionology Summit in New York.

And this was.

The whole entire thing was about modern commerce and agentic search and how search is just changing and the consumer intent is changing.

So she got a ton of people together to talk about this.

But.

But definitely look into all things fashion tech, if you're interested.

Okay.

Wow.

All right.

Yeah, well, that's.

I did not expect you to tell me that.

I really didn't.

I didn't expect.

But so that's.

That's really good news for Amazon.

You know, if.

If someone like yourself who's big into fashion, as followers of this show will know, is already going there to.

To do their searches.

You know, particularly as, you know, we think about the evolution of content, too, and how that plays into it.

And I know that that's.

That's a key way that you think about things and search things too, so.

All right.

Wow.

Great show, chap.

Great show.

All right, let's do the lightning round.

You ready?

I'm ready.

All right.

The Pope.

The Pope, yes.

The Pope is in Barcelona the very same week as I am to bless the Sagrada Familia.

What is the one word you would use to describe the architecture of Antoni Gaudi?

One word would be provocative.

That would be my one word.

So I was just in Barcelona two weeks ago myself for the supply chain Gartner supply chain symposium.

I could see the Basilica from my hotel window, but sadly, I did not make it there.

Yeah, yeah.

I've never been inside it.

I've never been inside it.

I've only seen Gotti from the outside, but, yes, that's a good word.

All right, quit question to you, Chris.

You chose to spend three weeks in Europe during one of the best months of the year in Minnesota.

Name two things you will do there to make that sacrifice worth it.

Oh, man, that's a really good question.

Yes.

I don't know that I chose to either.

I think circumstances dictated that I had to give that up.

Yeah.

Why can't conferences be in December?

Two things I'll do.

Well, one, I'm going to San Sebastian.

Mrs. Omnitok and I are going to San Sebastian, which is kind of on our bucket list of world stops, particularly for the food.

And then the other thing in Vienna that I'd like to do because I'm going to Vienna in the third week, I'd like to take in, like, a opera or some type of concerto, because I don't know why, but Vienna is probably because of Mozart.

But Vienna is synonymous with that for me.

Oh, definitely do that.

Yeah.

I went to Vienna many years ago, saw an orchestra and yeah, it is definitely.

Yeah, fantastic.

Definitely worth doing.

All right.

I was looking, I was looking through things today when I had some downtime to try to, to make that.

Make that happen.

So hopefully I can do that.

All right, next one.

Since you're a Minnesota guy who starts this season for the Vikings at quarterback KYLER Murray or J.J. mcCarthy?

Well, Chris, as you can see in the background, being a Michigan man myself, I gotta put my chips down on jj.

He is a warrior.

I have no doubt he will be the starter.

And then of course, he will proceed to take the Vikings fans on a roller coaster ride the rest of the year like he did last year.

Oh, my God, I forgot you're a Michigan guy too.

I was gonna.

Oh, my.

You guys are such homers.

Oh, my God.

Oh, God.

No way.

I think there's no way that happens.

But.

Okay, I'll give it to you.

All right.

All right, next question to you, Chris.

Name your favorite European retailer and why they are your favorite.

Oh, wow.

My favorite European retailer.

Oh, God, that's a good question.

So right now what's jumping into my head is Zara is a great retailer and also Tesco is a great retailer, but I think right now I'd have to say Marks and Spencer.

They're killing it right now.

Like they have.

They are just hitting on all cylinders and, you know, despite some of the things that happen.

But they're, you know, I talked to, I talked to some friends of mine and they say that they've got the best, best grocery experience in the business in the uk.

So that's, that's, that's who I'd go with right now.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Another my, you know, just to.

Yeah, I'm curious too.

Like, it's just a super interesting capability.

I met with, I think, the CTO of Rayway Groceries Railway at NRF in this, in.

In this past January.

And you know, we were talking about drones.

They execute a drone delivery that is synchronized with a bike pickup to deliver to the actual house.

Like it is a two step grocery delivery from drone to bike.

Like that is happening right now.

It's crazy.

That's nuts.

Yeah, there's so many good retailers over here too.

Like, even as you were talking about, it's like Roller Group's a good retailer.

Migros down in Turkey is a good retailer.

You know, there's just so much good reads.

I love that.

That's why I love coming over here.

So actually, maybe I did choose to come over here.

Now that you're saying that, Chap, I don't know.

All right, well, today's podcast was produced with the help and support of Ella Siriord.

Ella, thanks for all that you do to make this podcast what it is each and every week.

Thanks for adding your commentary, as you just did as well.

Happy birthday today to Gina Gershon, Bill Burr, and to Vanessa Kensington herself, Elizabeth Hurley.

Oh, behave.

Ella has no idea what that reference is.

And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, make it Omnitok.

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Thanks as always for listening in.

Please remember, like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube.

You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com omnitalkretail Chap, if people want to get in touch with you, which I'm guessing a lot of people are going to want to, after listening to this podcast, what's the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, just hit me up on LinkedIn.

My contact info is out there.

Be happy to connect.

Yeah, that's how you and I've been chatting for years now at this.

So, yes, yes, I highly, highly recommend it, everybody.

All right, well, on behalf of Chap, myself, producer Ella, and all of us here at Omnitalk Retail, as always, be careful out there.