Sober and Unstoppable - Toni Will Shares her Story

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Everybody, to call her cat, and today we will have the honor of speaking to not only the general manager and governor of the Kalamazoo Wings, a professional hockey team in the ECL, founder of Tonywill.com, TEDx speaker, host of the podcast Women in, author of the forthcoming book Not the Norm, creator of Empower Her, an annual women's empowerment conference in Kalamazoo, Michigan. She's also a mom, doing it all with grace, humor, authenticity, and real-world insight. I would like to welcome Tony Will. Hey Kat. Hi. So thank you so much for uh for joining us today from from Michigan. Um so um why don't we start with maybe I did an intro, but maybe tell us a little bit about you in your own words.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Yeah, I'm happy to. Yeah, so a lot of what you mentioned, uh other than I will tell you this, because it's not updated yet on my website, but it will be my book. The not the norm was the working title, and I'm working with my publisher right now, and and we have retitled it Rebellious Success. So I will be updating my website once we reveal the book cover, which I just picked this past weekend. So, um, but yeah, I'm all the things you mentioned. Um, I'm I'm a mom. I've been working in professional hockey for the last 11 years as a general manager and governor of the team. I'm not the governor of the state of Michigan. That's uh, but I like to explain the difference. So that's league side work that I'm responsible for. But um, yeah, I love to podcast, it's a hobby of mine. The conference came about on accident. A lot of the things I'm working on came, um, it wasn't my plan. And uh, but that's okay. And because it's led me to where I'm at today. And who knows what's next, other than my book coming out August 11th. But um, yeah, so you did a great job introing me.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

I mean, because I was reading, I was reading, I was like, wow, this is this is exhausting to even read. Um like, wow, you know, and um, and I'm like, she does she does all this, obviously not alone, like no one does everything all alone. You always have a team, and you said something on your on your on your TEDx talk that I liked, was that you say like three important words to your like your employees, your team, which is I trust you. Yes, and I was like, that's really huge. Um and so like like in being having so many things going on like you do, the the podcast, the the running the sports team, and the being an author and the empower her conference, what helps you build that resilience and confidence?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Yeah, I think the short answer is um I set goals and then I work really hard to accomplish them. And not not not the ones that are necessarily on my bio. Those are they're all really big goals, but it's like this the mundane, the day-to-day that's not on anyone's bio. Like uh she gets up every morning and works out six days a week and drinks 16 ounces of water before coffee, and you know, like eats this for breakfast, you know, the healthy stuff, the the the things that ground me and the habits I've built up over my adult life is what's helped me build confidence um in that. The other thing is like if we I've been reading about the law of attraction lately, and I didn't realize I was doing this, but it helped give me language. My personality is a type that I believe I can figure out how to do anything within reason. So either I that's a law of attraction or I'm slightly delusional, it's a good combination, but I figure like there's most things I'll figure it out. And um, and if I don't know how you hit the nail on the head, I will find someone that does to help me. I am not building all of these things alone, and so you know, none of this I've done alone. It's always in in some sort of expert in my life helping me or a family member or friend or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Also touched on something which I really liked. Um, you call them um the six leadership pillars. Um and um I'll let I'll let you talk um about them um and how you maybe not only apply them to like your professional life but your personal life.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah. Yeah. So this um I talked about this as you know in the TEDx, but if someone listening to this haven hasn't watched it, I'm sure you'll link to it so people can check it out. But so the story but uh the longer version story, I only had 18 minutes in my TEDx, so I had to cram a lot of information. Um, but the the longer story behind that is when I came into hockey 11 years ago, I was already so I've been working 25 years. I was about halfway through that point in terms of my career as it as we're to date today, but I didn't know how to run a hockey team. I worked in banking and I worked at the Chamber of Commerce. I never led a pro hockey team. And so I was like, all right, I can I gotta figure this out. And the HR and everyone saw this talent in me that they were like, you don't need to know how to run a hockey organization. You have the business acumen, you've lived in this community your whole life, you know how to sell, you know how to operate teams, you can learn the rest. Okay. Their belief in me was enough. So this is where my leadership pillars began, and I framed it because it's true as unconscious competence. I didn't know that I was doing this till I looked back in hindsight and I was writing it down on a yellow post to know it about three years in. So, leadership pillar number one was go to the experts. And I already mentioned this like a few minutes ago. I didn't know how to run a pro hockey team on the business side. So I went to the other teams in our division, to the Tonys, the presidents of GMs, and I'm like, can I come visit you? Can I come learn? And they were like, Absolutely, because we might be competitors on the ice, but off the ice we're not. We're all in different cities or countries, so it we don't care. It doesn't matter. Let's help each other. And so I would go and visit them, or sometimes I take my whole staff and we'd take in a game as well, and we'd go learn from the other franchises. We took those learnings and it leads to leadership pillar number two, which is innovate. So we're a small town here in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Normally, pro sports teams are not in the size of communities like Kalamazoo. Our population is 75,000 proper. Usually they're in pop teams are in populations of a million or more. So we're very unique and special in that way. And we're privately owned, which is part of the so, which is a whole other amazing thing that we've been able that the Kalmazou wings have been for 52 years. So we innovate, we make the ideas fit in a community our size. Um, and and and sometimes we don't do the ideas because it might not work in Kalamazoo. We come up with our own, but we're always ideating and being innovative and creative. Leadership pillar number three flows right from one and two, which is make mistakes. Um, I'm a big fan of mistakes. Now, do I like how they feel? Heck no. But you remember them because it feels like crap. And so, I mean, my team was making one of my employees last week was like, Oh, I'm making all these mistakes lately. And I said, Yeah, but you're gonna remember it and you're not gonna do it again. And they're like, Yeah, you're right, but it still sucks. I'm like, Yeah, it but that's why it's a leadership pillar. And I've made a plenty of mistakes. And by the way, we're all human, we're all flawed. So to expect perfection is just plain silly. Uh, leadership pillar number four is personality driven. This is definitely for me, ask for forgiveness rather than permission. I, you know, I've taken great liberties in running this team and being like doing creative things that aren't the most popular. It could be a sales strategy, it could be dye in the ice rainbow, it can be uh changing a game time to the afternoon, said the evening. Like I'm willing to try it and experiment, and that's how we learn as well. And a lot of times things work that people think won't, but you gotta, you know, I've got that rebel spirit. Uh leadership pillar number five. This is my management style, culture building style is called macromanage. Nobody likes to be micromanaged. And um I I this is the part where you had mentioned earlier. I truly say this to my staff nearly on a daily basis, which is I trust you. Um, and that was proven many times over the 11 years, especially last year when my mom died and I was out a lot. And I'm like, you guys got this, and you're in the middle of hockey season. And they did. They didn't, you know, I'd set everything up for success for them, and that but meaning I built the strategy, but they know how to do the work and I trust them implicitly. And if I don't trust them, then I wouldn't hire them. Uh, and then finally, leadership pillar number six is have fun. Like as we get older, we are all way too serious. We're like, let's have some fun. And so I give examples in my TEDx on of how we have fun, and um, there's lots of ways that to have fun, and it it's all in how we define it. But we work in sports entertainment, which people come to to have fun, so shouldn't we have fun?

SPEAKER_00 9:44

You know, that's how you kind of get comfortable with each other and know your strengths and your weaknesses, and plus actually I think it just builds good camaraderie among people. 100% you know, so if you feel like your your team cares about you, you're gonna work harder. You know, absolutely even like something like m remembering someone's birthday or like um you know, something simple as that makes I think it makes all the difference to somebody you know, sometimes exactly and um you also touched on um in the pandemic how you know hockey was affected because social distancing um and that was a landmark year for really everybody, every everybody's world kind of changed and stopped in some ways. It was also a a year for you um where you you you were trying to reframe what alcohol in your life meant. Um why do you think the pandemic was like that year? Was there something specific about that year? Was it just that um you know you're inside more, there was more like reflection, or what about that year and that moment kind of yeah, that's such a good question.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Cause and I've never been asked it that way, which is why I love it. So, because it makes me stop and think, um, was it 2020 in particular? I don't think so. I think what it's always been in me, this inner, not always, for a long time it's been in me, this inner knowing that my relationship with alcohol wasn't right for me. Um, because I had well before 2020, I had tried to quit drinking before successfully. I mean, I I quit through the rooms of AA for 15 months, and um and while I liked the community aspect, I uh the framework was hard for me because it's very male-centric and um it's old, you know, and I like more forward-thinking, modern, kind of disruptive methodologies. There comes my rebel spirit again. And so um 2020 just happened to be a time where because the nature of hockey was slowing down, we couldn't gather indoors in Michigan. I had time to like think about this more, and I also had time to take action. Now, I could have taken action before, which I did in the same job years earlier, but it was harder to focus on when I'm being pulled in multiple different directions. I mean, it's an excuse, but that's what it was back then. So, but now because I wasn't being pulled, I thought I have an opportunity. I can either drink my face off because we're all locked in the houses and can't go anywhere, or I can work on the way I see myself in the future. I can work on my future self. And so I embarked, I Googled, and I talked about this in my TEDx about going to the experts. Google is an expert. Um, and so I Googled other ways to stop drinking um besides AA. And the book, This Naked Mind, came up by Annie Grace. And so I ordered that book and I also ordered, and then Amazon would tell me, you could order, you know how it says you could order this and this book. They're often ordered together. So I got sucked into that. And I ordered her live alcohol experiment book, too. Two books that um fundamentally changed the direction of my relationship with alcohol. It was the spark. Now I had a ton of work to do. It was, and I've been sober now or alcohol-free for uh over about five and a half years now. Um, it is one of the hardest things I've ever done, but one of the most rewarding. And so I embarked on this journey to figure out how to not only remove alcohol from my life and find freedom, but remove the stigma. And I decided to quit out loud. And I was going to be someone that kicked anonymity, if I said it right, to the curb. And I wanted to inspire other people who felt the same way because I think shame is just BS. And we feel shame for a lot of different things, although we feel the same, a lot of us feel the same way. And if I if I'm willing to speak up about it, others will too. Even if not to the greater public, but maybe even to me to say, Hey Tony, you help me. And uh, so I decided to quit out loud and then I launched a business and I've never looked back.

SPEAKER_00 14:11

Beautiful, like the way you um I kind of laughed because you called it your Tony timeout. I did. You know, I thought that was cute. Um and I think like you you were framed the language like instead of like relapse, you said data point. Like, like so and like when I hear that, it's like, oh, a growing experience. Like you you you get you get some uh you have like a reference point to go back to okay, what went wrong and what can I do better like the next time.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

100%. And I don't want to take credit for that. Annie Grace is that came from her book from This Naked Mind. And that was one of the things, like just these subtle shifts, instead of saying alcoholic, how about alcohol free? Instead of saying relapse, how about data point? And I too, like when I I was like I said, I was sober through the rooms of AA for 15 months, and then I decided to have a drink one day. And in my mind, when I had that drink, now I relapse and I was starting all over. But if you look at this other methodology of I could have learned from that and the sky isn't falling, and I could just keep going after that one drinking experience, that could have changed a lot of things for me back then. But I didn't have that knowledge, I didn't have that different way of thinking back then. And so, um, but I had it in 2020, so it it definitely helped take the pressure off. And that Tony timeout when I love alliteration, but I really thought when I quit in October of 2020 that my goal was 30 days, and then I was gonna go back to drinking like a normal person. And I'm using air quotes if you're listening to this, because what is normal, anyways? And I I kept going, but it was through what I would call lengthening, like just adding more time on without this very heavy forever. And I still don't say forever because I'm a rebel, and if rebels say forever, guess what we want to do? We want to break the rules and say, and which is sabotaging myself, but so I still don't say forever. I just say I'm not I'm a non-drinker.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Now, when um the world kind of reopened back up, um and were you still a non-drinker at that point? Yeah, now would how was that to go back into because hockey games, there's there is there alcohol in your um oh yeah, yeah. So then like and I'm I'm sure you have like um you know dinners you gotta go to or events, yeah. There's alcohol all around. Like, how was that to like kind of reintroduce yourself to everybody as maybe a non-drinker?

SPEAKER_01 16:50

That was hard. Um it was now because I chose this pathway in October of 2020, I had gosh, I want to say it was almost a year of being able to get some stable footing underneath me. And because it was really hard. My relationship with alcohol was uh I mean, I was sometimes a binge drinker, sometimes a daily drinker, a lot of times both. And um, so this wasn't I mean, I've said this is a spectrum, and so in my mind, like anyone that drinks is on the spectrum. So if you're someone that drinks once a year, it's like white down here, but as you keep going, it becomes grayer and grayer, and then we're moving to black. Black is someone that um, in my mind, this is just Tony's visual on it, is someone that is uh physically addicted because there's an emotional addiction to alcohol and there's a physical addiction. Mine was definitely an emotional addiction. Um but it was I was experiencing blackouts, and it was dark gray, is the best way I can explain it. Like um, I I didn't like to go to anything that didn't have alcohol because what's the point? Um, that was my fun time. And so going back to your question, yeah, that's how they all knew me. And I'm like, so there's this one moment in particular where I'm traveling again and I called my husband and I was crying and I had this event, and I said, I think I'm gonna drink tonight. And he said, Are you sure you want to do that? Which when I hear that sentence from him, I know it's a key indicator of he's trying to tread lightly because I'm a rebel. And if you say you don't want to do that, then I'm gonna I'm immediately gonna push back because I feel like I'm being told what to do, even though it's what I want to do. And so I know it's so ridiculous, but because of this work, I'm aware of all of it now. And um, he said, I go, what if they don't respect me, Josh, if I don't drink? And that was a limiting belief I had. I didn't know that at the time, even though I wasn't drinking. And he said, Well, why don't you think about it this way, Tony? He says, What if they respect you more because you choose not to drink? Blew my mind. I was like, Okay, I I can work with that. And I I went to the event that night, and you want to know what's hilarious, cat. No one was drinking, anyways. You know, like what I got myself all worked up. But but through that one conversation with him, and there's a lesson in that too. And when I coach my clients on this, because this is part of what I do in my Tonywell.com work on my website, is I coach other individuals to find freedom through alcohol, through these different methodologies, different tools. And one of the tools is talking to people in your life about your relationship with alcohol that you don't like, and that's hard. But I trusted Josh enough to say, here's where I'm at. I mean, he plus he knew I had an issue with alcohol, he freaking lived with me. So I mean, we think we're we think we are just so like smart and like sly about this stuff, and we're not, anyways. But yeah, having someone to be able to talk to about this, whether it's a spouse, best friend, clergy person, coach, whatever, and it's really one of the silver bullets.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

I'm kind of curious, like, um I don't know how closely like you interact with with the players, but if a if a player approaches either like you or like someone on the team and says, like, you know, like I'm I'm struggling with this, like alcohol, you know, what is uh what are like the steps? I'm just curious, like is it okay to ask that question? Like what what are like the steps or um what's that like for that player? Like what do you like how do you go from there with that person?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah, so I've been asked over the years, and not just players, but anyone who's come up to me, and I regardless of the role I would take, I would um in role in my life or whether they know me or not, um, and they're brave enough to ask me and courageous enough because that takes a lot of courage, and not because it's me, because it's just hard to talk about in general. Um, I would handle the same way. And I'm the first thing I say is, I want you to know I totally get it. And I whatever you tell me is gonna stay right between us, and I'm super passionate about helping other people around this because I put myself through the ringer with it. So that's where I start. I really just the relationship and the connection, and I'm like, and by the way, you are kick ass for coming and saying it out loud because that is so hard. So that's where I start because all that I just said is true. And then I listen, and really that's part of the key. Listen non judgmentally, and then I'll provide resources um based on what I'm hearing to whatever it is, like a book or a podcast, or um just sitting down and talking. To me more if they want coffee with me, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

That's important because sometimes I feel it as though sometimes it's harder to go just even like the closest people in your life if you're if you're struggling with that. Even if um you know they may have seen the signs that you're struggling. It's hard to say it out loud to like sometimes like your spouse or a friend, sometimes it's easier to go to maybe someone you're not super close with because they don't have like that history with you. And sometimes just having someone say like you know, like that's awesome, like I'm here for you. You know, you know, what can we do? Like let me give you this resource. You know, I think that's a I think that that's one of the most powerful things we can do for people is to like it's like I see you, I hear you, you know, um, and to kind of remove like that that shame a little bit. Um because once you I think say it out loud, it takes some of that power away, like over you. It does. And you also said something in your in your in your talk that I really liked, which was um it was a quote by Mark Twain says if you find yourself in the majority, pause and reflect. And I really liked that because I'd never heard that before. Um and I liked how you applied it to your your relationship with alcohol.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

Yeah, yeah, and and you know it's interesting about that quote. It I mean, even in my day-to-day life, as being the female GM and one of the only women in the room, and oftentimes the only woman in the room, but if I'm in the majority, it's like what hang on a minute. And I don't always need to be the outlier, I don't, but there are times where I think it's important to question, especially if there's that inner knowing. And I keep going back to that because there are these things and that are we think that are whispers and we ignore, ignore, ignore, and it keeps getting louder and louder and louder. And it's like, okay, I can't ignore you anymore. And so, and the reason we ignore it is because it makes us uncomfortable and we don't know what to do with it. And so, whether it's professional or personal, I'm leaning more into that whisper and saying, okay, let me listen. Let me listen. And so that quote stood out to me years ago. And Mark Twain, as I said, in the TEDx, because I it wasn't pop, he was popular that night. Like people, there's 10, just so no one would know this unless they've been to a TEDx, but there were 10 speakers that night at that event in Kalamazoo. And um, I was the last one, Kat. They had me close out the show, and that was at when I did that, it was at 11 o'clock at night, and I am not a night person. And so I had it was like being on Survivor. You're on the island with all these people backstage, and then they each get to go and they're all getting voted off, and I'm the last one on there, and oh, it was like it's a compliment, but it was um it's nerve-wracking. And so by the end of the night, I've been hearing about Mark Twain all damn night, and I'm like, but no one used the quote that I did because thank God, not that it matters, but I probably would have made a joke about that too. But yeah, that quote just really stood out. It made me feel like it's okay to be different.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

I feel like it may even like sometimes like even like your position that you have with the um the wings, it gives you permission to kind of think outside the box. You know, like you can try different things at events, um and it just it doesn't like restrict you to just having to be in the majority. Because like, like, I mean, you're in a very small population being uh like the the general manager of a hockey team as a woman. That's a that's a that's there's not a lot.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

There's less, I think there's less than five in the world.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I mean that's that's big. So I mean, and I think that brings like a unique um uh like flair to the team and not having a history in hockey, you know, so you're not bound to just trying to uh play by those rules as well, like what's always worked, like what you know, because it's not really the world like you played in.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Uh correct. Uh and it's a strength.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

I think it I think and like I like that quote, and I'm like, that can be applied to so many different so many different things. And speaking of so many different things, how do you define your work-life balance? Like with all the demands that you have.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Yeah, I don't.

unknown 26:36

Um I don't.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Well, let me tell you, so I I believe this work-life balance is like a term pop culture puts out there, and it's it's uh I feel like it's more geared towards women, and like we're supposed to, like you and I are both moms, so we're supposed to like have this teeter-totter balancing or the the scales of justice or whatever. Like it's supposed to be perfectly balanced. Nobody asks men this question. Um, and so you know what I mean? Like, why are why do we have to balance everything? It's such a double bind. So um I believe I believe more in like seasonality there because hockey season is half the year, it's October through April, sometimes June, if we go into postseason, and it's more it's heavier in that time frame. But then you go into summer and early fall and it's lighter. Um, there's a seasonality behind it. There's a season like my conference is coming up in six weeks. I'm heavier into that on the nights and weekends than I am, you know, after that. So it everything is kind of has its ebbs and flows and its ups and downs. And that's why I like doing both worlds of pro hockey year-round, and then my all my side hustle passion projects, whatever, because I can fit them into other areas of my life and just take things away that are wasting my time, like drinking alcohol or watching TV or things like that. Like if you think about how much time that's taken up to do some of those things, I've just freed myself up to work on these other things I'm more passionate about and give my life purpose and meaning. Oh, I have so many ideas that are pouring out of me. It I do voice memos, I keep notes on my phone, I've got notebooks, like just all this stuff that's coming out of my brain. It is, and sometimes quite frankly, it's overwhelming. So, yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

No, now empower her, that's a is that like a direct um like offshoot of you redefining your relationship with alcohol?

SPEAKER_01 28:55

So, empower her actually kind of started over on the hockey side because we would do hockey for her games and just focused in on, you know, women, young girls, not or players, what uh female um fans of the sport. And then we'd we decided to rename it empower her. And then I was like, then on accident, and I'm having well, not on the this lunch I had was on accident, but what came from this lunch was on accident. They were like, I was talking about how I always wanted to do a women's conference in Kalamazoo, and I was having lunch with our tourism bureau, one of the you know, lead people there. And they're like, if you do a conference, Tony, we'll sponsor it. I'm like, really? And that's really all it took. So I ran with that last year. And why I called it MPOWHER was because not only was this conference about empowering women both personally and professionally, but it dovetails into part of the experiential part of this conference, which is going to the hockey game, going to a K-Wings game. So I paired it all together and packaged it that way. So that's what we did in 2025. MPOWHER 2026 is coming up March 13th and 14th. And this year, because the of the dates and how the schedule fell, we're actually we're going to a K-Wings game again for the experiment part or not experiment, experience part, but we're going to our annual green ice game for St. Patrick's Day. The game's already sold out. We are known for colored ice, and this was the first one we started in 1981. So it's going to be phenomenal. The game is sold out. My conference still has tickets, but uh yeah, so that's kind of where it all started.

SPEAKER_00 30:32

Exciting. Um, do you want to talk a little bit about your website? Um, like how you like how you because I know um I really like like you um from what I was reading, you help people also redefine their relationship with alcohol so they can be their best selves essentially. They can live in their purpose, from what it what it sounds like.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Yeah, this is such a great question because what's happened over so when I quit drinking in October 2020, two months in, I I've always I've always been a coach, not in hockey, but a leadership coach. I've always been the boss of some sort of team, leading some sort of team in the business world. And so I've always wanted to get a certification um to start my own business, but I wanted to do it around alcohol. And so I use that time when I when we were dark, not playing hockey, to spend my nights and weekends getting a certification in this through this naked mind. So I did that and I launched a business called Mindfulness Elevated. And so for the last five years, I've been coaching individuals to reduce or remove substances from their lives, ones that I have experience with. Um, so if someone came to me and wanted to get off of cocaine, I'm not gonna be helpful in that area because that's not a drug that I'd ever done. I don't have the experience with that. But if if they alcohol, I know I've drank my face off. I can help you with that. So um, yeah, so I coach people all over the world um virtually and in person sometimes if they're in Kalamazoo, and um to help them do that. And I love one-on-one coaching and I still do it. Mindfulness elevated, I sunseted because my business started to grow, so I just put everything under Tony will you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

I think it's it's so beautiful how like you know, you had that moment of kind of like kind of like um like incubation a little bit where you you went inside and like then when you had kind of did you have like an aha moment, like once you kind of slowly started to redefine like your relationship with alcohol, like wow, like I'm really can do this without it. Like, I don't need it maybe as much as I as I thought I did.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

That's a really good question. Was there an aha? I don't think there was, and that I I I it was subtle, small changes over time, and the repetition of living fully alcohol free day after day after day after day, and and really going through some, you know, I'm midlife, I'm almost 48 years old, like going through challenging things in my life and not drinking. Like my mom died a year ago, and she died of Alzheimer's, and that was hard, you know. And I they my parents lived here in Kalamazoo, so I was very much a part of all of that, um, the day-to-day, everything. And it was exhausting emotionally, physically. It's my mother, you know, and I knew alcohol wasn't gonna fix that, and thank God I quit drinking four years before that. Um, but that's one of the harder things I've gone through sober, and so um it wasn't just one thing, it was a bunch of things.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Do you think um I kind of lost my train of thought? I'm sorry. Um, I'm sorry, I totally lost what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Oh, it's okay, it happens to me all the time.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Wow, I had like this question and I'm like it just totally like left me. I know oh well reader, you read your age in books every year. I do. Um like is like and you you you say audible, you do like audible in your car, like you're that's like a like that's like a lot. That's a lot of books. Like, I'm not gonna lie, I read like you know, if I read like eight a year, I'm like, yeah, you're reading like 42, 43. I'm like, wow, like um are there like genres that you like? Is there like a certain or is it just like all across the it's everything?

SPEAKER_01 34:34

I I will there's specific ones, like so. Last year I started to, I think I ended up at 55 books last year. Um and and those are on my website too. If people want to check out the list, and I listen to my age, and by that podcast, not my own, although I do listen back to all my own for quality control, but um I listen to other and I use them as resources for me, for my clients, whatever. So um I what how I do this is, and then you're asking about genres, but before I go to before I go to bed, I read and I'm either reading an actual book or a Kindle on my app. And usually it's um fiction. So a Colleen Hoover book, a Freedom McFadden book, something like that. Um in the in Audible, I'm usually listening to something uh nonfiction or personal development, self-help, that type of stuff, or a memoir um or business or something like that. And I'm trying to think because I and then if I have time, I read at work, like I take, I get up from my desk and I walk the concourse because I'm in an arena and I read a book, or I walk outside the arena and I read a book. So I'm constantly taking in, and like I in the car I listen to Audible. So I'm taking books in multiple pathways to accomplish my goal.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

So that's I'm I must imagine, I mean, I imagine reading all those books, gaining all the insight. Is there one book recently or like in your life that just like um just changed so much for you outside of the um the books you read for your to change your relationship with alcohol?

SPEAKER_01 36:18

Yeah. Um, I would say on the business side, one that's really stuck with me and I'm continuing to work on is 10x is easier than 2x um by Dr. Ben Hardy and Dan Sullivan. That book really um speaks to me. And I actually give keynotes about that framework uh quite often and talking about what it really means to 10x. It's not just about revenue and money, it's in other ways too. So um that book I've I uh reread multiple times a year.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Now, as a as a woman in in sports, an entrepreneur, and you have all these titles, what is how can and I think sometimes like when you hear like women together, women kind of get like a bad rap. People try to kind of pit them to like against each other, which I think is really sad. Um how can women it like not even just in leadership, but how can women, how do you think women can support each other better?

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Oh my gosh, yes, another great question. So this is why I started my podcast, Women In. Um, well, one of the many reasons, but I want to lift women up, and I think we do that by what you and I are doing right now. You and I are having a conversation. I saw your podcast and I thought this would be this is right up my alley, uh, and I messaged you. Um, and I'd love to have you on my podcast because we're not the the message is this I live a life of abundance, and what that means is I um I know that there's only one Tony Will, and I'm not competing. There's only one Cat York. And if we were living a life of scarcity, we would think, oh, I better hold on to all these things I've worked so hard for and not share any of this with anyone. And I don't believe that. I believe that rising tides lift all ships. Maybe that's a Mark Twain quote, too. I don't know. But but that I I believe what we can do is truly we don't have to sit here and braid each other's hair to lift each other up, which would be impossible for you and I because we don't care. But but what we can do is support each other's endeavors, right? Follow each other on social media, we can whatever. I mean, it can be small or big, but we can genuinely look at how we view women in our lives and think, am I coming from a scarcity mindset or am I one of abundance? There's enough for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

It's so sad because um and men have a lot to offer too, but just for the sake of this conversation, you know, women have so much to offer. And I think beautiful things come together even more so when you lift each other up. And like you said, you know, there's a qu I don't remember exactly how it is, but like um your light doesn't dim because you helped someone else shine, something like that. You know, like you we're supposed to like fix each other's crown, not like rip it off, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Exactly. It's uh it's up to us, it's up to uh you know for us to decide. And I think a lot of times women just don't know how to lift each other up. I don't know, or they think they have to be best friends to do it and kumbaya. And I don't I think there's all different kinds of ways.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah, I mean, like you said, it can just be something simple like a follow on social media or like a text like you're doing a good job, or you know, how is your how's that side project going with you? You know, it doesn't have to be we don't have to be entrenched in everything that we're all doing, but just like more of like a like just a supportive environment. I think imagine if we did that like all around the world, like women lifting instead of like online, like you know, the body shaming and this and that. It's it's it's so terrible because I think it I think it drains women too.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Oh, a hundred percent. Like we're all doing the best we can. So, I mean, sure, there's some bad apples, but for the most part, all of us women are just doing the best we can. So why not why not assume that and not think that they're coming after something something in your sphere?

SPEAKER_00 40:28

Like no, no, yeah, women should we shouldn't see each other as a threat all the time. No, you know, I don't think there's a reason for that. Um now, like you as a woman, like you also have like um you've also done um you said you were also like a marathon runner. You did used to be when you see like uh I know you you're the league that you run is is male, but like when you see like women in sports, um, like what does it feel like for you to see women in sports? Not even like in even in like in your world, but just like playing sports or like pursuing these goals.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Oh, I love it. I was um yesterday, well, because you know it's winter here where we you and I, you're in Massachusetts and I'm in Kalamazoo or Michigan, but it's cold, so there's a lot of hoodies. And um, yesterday I was wearing my PWHL hoodie for the professional women's hockey league and um and uh any sport for women. I grew up as a gymnast and a cheerleader. And so um, whether this whatever sport is, I I love seeing young girls and women participating in whatever sport it is they love. And the research shows that women who participate in sports um have a higher, they're a higher percentage of becoming a C-suite executive if that's what they want. And because of the skill sets you learn when you're in a team or individual sport because of the discipline and the practice and the training and the mindset that goes into that. And so I am always cheering that on. Now, I will also say that, like, for instance, my son was not um really into sports to play. He likes to watch them, but he was really into band and but and marching band. And that that in and of itself, when I would watch them march, I'm like, that should be a dang sport because that look that's hard. That's not easy. And they're doing this crap backwards and on the balls of their feet or top tippy toes and I and playing. And I'm like, I don't know how so. My point is, I'm not saying everyone needs to be an athlete, but um I do see the value because it helps women, young young girls and women build confidence.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

If there's women out there who are looking to get into your role someday um of running like a sports team, what like advice do you have for them or um avenues should they start to follow, go down?

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Yeah, so number one, relationships are key. So even though sports seems like a big topic, it's a small world. Um, so start building those relationships, start fostering those relationships. I all I say connect with me on LinkedIn. I always will take a 30-minute uh virtual call to meet with anyone that's looking to break into this sport, this industry. It's not easy. Um, I would also say this: don't necessarily when you're applying for jobs, don't necessarily look for all jobs in sports. I wasn't, I didn't apply for this job. I applied in the same company, but for something totally different. And it found me. So it doesn't always need to be on the nose. Um, so I encourage people to sometimes take the blinders off and look wider because you can it it can always roads can come back to sports. Um, the other thing I say is this consider sales because the the one position that well that they have the most of are revenue generating roles. So if you're willing to learn how to sell, and let me tell you, sales isn't a dirty word, that's your way in. So I say all those things. Relationships, be willing to sell, and maybe not look for jobs that aren't exactly what you're looking for. Widen the view and consider other opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 44:10

And that's so true because I know someone who works um in like the the advertising part of the the Thunderbirds or the Thunderbirds here. Um and she started in the like the advertising, now she's into sales herself. Um and so she's kind of like working her way up. But you know, her background too was in something completely different. You know, but she did it because it was she was kind of burnt out on what she was doing. But now she's found like she's like excelling here. Oh yeah. You know, and um just the events that hockey does is I think it's phenomenal. Like you said, like the colored ice and the uh the all the events that you guys do. I think it's I think it's like a special, it feels like a like a family to me. Like when I think of like hockey and you know, um and I guess as as a as a uh governor and uh the manager of uh the hockey team success isn't just based on I I don't take you as someone who considers sex um success based on just win-loss. Yeah. So like how do you define success in your arena for back of lack of a better word?

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Yeah, I don't. It with the wins and the losses, because I'm not attached emotionally to what's happening on the ice. Now, listen, I understand that there's, you know, there's business tied to that. Like if the team isn't winning on a somewhat consistent basis, the hockey purists are not going to want to watch. And those are our season ticket holders. So I get that. But that's 20% of our fan base. And while they're very important, there's another 80% out there. So how do I define success? Um, I look at success as uh number one, the culture of my staff. What does turnover look like? Because if my turnover is really low, I'm doing something right as a leader. Because the longer my staff is seasoned, the better they are in their role and the more efficient they are. So if my staff is sticking around, I'm doing something right. So there's that. Um the numbers, okay. So when I look at sales numbers and I look at what the revenue we're generating, and looking at the PL and all how are we looking there? I mean, those are that's just data, raw data. Um, you can't argue that. And if if we're headed in the direction and hitting our goals, awesome. Same thing with social media. We'll look at those metrics. Are we creating more fans, um, more people coming to the building? So I look at that. And then I look at what are we doing for the community? How much money are we raising for the community and the nonprofits we partner with for jersey auctions or chuck-a-pucks and or for different um cause games that we do for uh Deaf Awareness Game, Autism Game, Black Heritage Game, Empower? Um, so we we have all these different cause games because we want all kinds of individuals that are all living out here in Kalamazoo and beyond to come to a hockey game and feel like they're seen. And we do pop culture games and we do all traditional games too, but so community is another part of that, you know. And I think the last part would be how does it feel? I mean, now that's the woman in me, that's the feminine side of me coming out and saying, Does this feel right? Does it feel good? Are we helping people? Are we making a change? Are we a business that's doing great things in our community? And if we are, and it feels good, then we're on the right track, and that's success.

SPEAKER_00 47:45

Now say someone out there is listening and they're struggling, just like maybe not even with alcohol or addiction, maybe they're just struggling in general. What do you what do you say to someone who's maybe in like a dark place and doesn't really know how to doesn't really know what to do?

SPEAKER_01 48:03

Ugh, I get it. And number one is I get it. Um I I would say this, it's normal, there's nothing wrong with you, and you're not alone. I think in in the next question, it would be like, okay, how do I get out of this? And so it's it, so it could be a version of asking for help. And I'm not saying help is like it it could be anything. It could be talking to a friend, like, hey, can we talk about this? I just need to say this stuff out loud. Um, it could be going to the doctor and getting on an antidepressant. I don't know. You know, like I have struggled with anxiety. Crazy, I'm I'm an extrovert, but I've had anxiety for whatever reason. I don't know why, but I finally got on medication to help me with that. And so, and that's just my story. I I say that openly because um I think it's important to just be authentic, and that's part of who I am. Um, you know, is it reading a book or listening to a podcast or finding like-minded people who are struggling to? Because then you're gonna feel like you're not alone. And you can find people all over the place because of all the technology now.

SPEAKER_00 49:09

And I think sometimes even you find that one person, things don't feel so heavy anymore.

SPEAKER_01 49:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:14

You're like, okay, maybe this isn't like so not that it's take, you know, this isn't so my world isn't gonna end because of this. Right. You know, like there are always I I believe the universe always gives you chance after a chance. Like you don't just get one chance and then you're you're you're done. You know, but I think sometimes in this society, sometimes it feels like if you don't hit uh if you're not a millionaire by the age of 20, you know, you're you know what I mean? Like you're you know what I mean? I'm like that's not even close to realistic for the majority of people. And so I think sometimes I wonder sometimes with all the expectations you put on people that increases the uh the use of alcohol, that increases the use of of substances, you know, just that that pressure, and then it's like you try to reach out, it's like and you get scared because it's like you know, and so I always think it's good to hear from someone uh who's been through it, you know, and has come out the other side with just an incredible story and an incredible avenues to not like to help people. Um, and I do want to touch on your book. I know we touched on a little bit, but like what can you tell us about your book?

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, so it's called Rebellious Success, and it is uh a compilation of pretty much everything you and I have talked about today. Um, I would say it's it's part uh my story, part how to, like it actually tells you how to make these changes to get through what what it is you're struggling with, and leadership mixed with some business. So it's creative nonfiction. And um, yeah, I I I really open the kimono, as I like to say. And I I talk about the the the hard stuff, the not so pretty stuff that's gone on in my life, whether it be an arrest, whether it be quitting drinking, whether being sexually harassed, whether it be um my two best friends dying um when we were young, and the the aftermath of that. Um, but I talk about how to work how I worked through these things and what tools I use so the reader can walk away and have some tangibles. Because while I love a good book where people like especially a memoir, which mine isn't a memoir, but if it's part memoir, but I think it's awesome to read how great someone is after they've been at their lowest low, and I'm cheering them on, but I don't necessarily know how they did it. And I wanted my readers to come away with okay, here's some things I can actually do.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

When does your book come out? Do you have a date for it to come out?

SPEAKER_01 51:45

August 11th, and then pre-sale is going to be the weekend of Empower, where it's so it'll be on pre-sale for from March until August forever.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

How long have you been working on your book? How long how long has this been like a a long time, Kat? Two years.

unknown 52:02

Two years.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

No, that's I I can't wait to read it. And I know that these are the title and the cover has changed, but even the title that I saw on the cover that I saw was fun.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

Yeah, that was all me. That was all like, well, my marketing person. Yeah, that was my vision. Uh, and so that that's it it's gonna look different than that. But god, I fell in love with uh everything we're working on now that I had a publisher because I wasn't sure how it's gonna publish it, and that was part of this journey. You know, there's choices in in publishing now where because you could self-publish or hybrid publish or traditional publish. And so I explored all those routes and um landed on hybrid publishing and working with Greenleaf Publishing Group. And so um, and I'm learning because I don't know what the heck I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 52:44

I love how you're honest, you're you're about that. Like I love how you're like you, you know, it's just like like I don't know, but I'm gonna go find people who who do know and are gonna help me, you know, make this happen for me. And in turn, you help others make it happen for themselves, and it builds like this beautiful ripple effect.

SPEAKER_01 53:01

Yeah, I want to pay it forward. I just want to pay it forward, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

And I think that I think that's a beautiful tone to set. And you know, it's not like it's not all like roses and rainbows, like you're very real about like everything, you know. And I think like even just like reading like on your website, it comes off very real and very relatable, you know. Like you don't I don't get the feel that you're trying to like push something on somebody, it's just like you know, you're trying to offer it to somebody to really help them. Yeah, that's exactly it. And I I can't wait to read your book. Um, I'm upset that I have to wait so long, but me too cat. I would do it now. Like I get excited about a book, then it's like, oh, you have to wait like eight months, it's like you know, but but I I'm excited to read it, and um one question I like to ask people um is there like a quote that you you that inspires you every day or a mantra that like you say to yourself every day or you think about when you're struggling, um, that you apply to your life?

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Is there something um it it changes? I'll say it's not always the same one, but lately it's been moving water never freezes. And you know, the meaning behind that is if I slow down or I choose to just stop, you know, what comes from that? And essentially entropy, you know, like the muscles will not be as strong, or um, I won't achieve my goals. And um, I look at someone like my dad as a great example of this. He's nearly 83 years old, and he plays softball all around the country in his ADU team. And um, I I just look at him and think, and he doesn't look like he's in his 80s, and I think moving water never freezes, and that inspires me.

SPEAKER_00 54:55

You inspired me today. I mean, just all that you have going and just the way that you you know carry yourself and just how open you are with your experiences and your journey, not only just with alcohol, but even with your career and your book. And I like seeing like this snowball effect that's like happening, and I feel like we're gonna can like I feel like this may start it as one book, and I feel like you're gonna have like another book.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Probably, you know, don't tell my husband because he's like, I'm not ready yet. I'm like, I'm not just went out. I imagine it's been a lot for him, too.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Um, but yeah, I'm so excited, and I I I really appreciate you taking the time to to talk to me today. Talk to us.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Yeah, this is great, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

And I I really appreciate your time, and I really do.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

And I if I'm ever in Michigan, which I hope I am, yeah, come see me and I'll bring I know you guys like hockey. I would you come to K-Wings game and uh I'll show you the show you all the cool things.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Give you like a minute or two if you want to say anything else about what you do or any plugs you want to make. Uh feel free.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Yeah, the biggest one is if uh MPOW her. That's that's the next project that's in six weeks. So if anyone's in and around Kalamazoo, Michigan, or even from a fly here. I mean, people come from all the country for this conference. I'd love to see you. It was really important to me to host it in my hometown. And I've had offers to bring it to other states, and I just I don't want to. I want it to be in Kalamazoo. So um, yeah, MPOW her. And everything, like you said, is on my website at Tonywill.com and I'm on all the social media platforms too. Just type in Tony with Tony Will, Tony with an eye, and um you'll find me.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

Thank you again so much for being here. Yeah, it's a pleasure. I hope you have a really good rest of your week. You too. Uh lovely rest of your day too, and then it does warm up for you. Same to you. Thank you so much, and it was an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.