QLS Classic: Mariah Carey Part 2

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Speaker 1: Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. What's Up Everybody? This is Sugar Stea from Questlove Supreme as we celebrate the holiday season. This felt like a worthy two part classic to revisit. Here is Mariah Carrey. We recorded this in the middle of the night, but it was worth it. Mariah was promoting her book and she was an open book to us. This is a really free and fun conversation with one of the biggest superstars of Men. Part two originally aired on Friday, January fifteenth, twenty twenty one. Enjoy everybody and happy holidays and a healthy new Year from Team Supreme and everybody at Questlove Supreme. In terms of editing, how does one Because you definitely walked a mighty tight groupe as far as like telling your side of the story and your experiences. But when you're writing your memoir, how do you know what stories to tell and what stories to leave out? Because you said that you know oftentimes you're not alone, so oftentimes your stories have happened to happen with people that are with you. So how do you know like what to share and like what's TMI and what's okay? This part of the story is cool to tell. I feel safe telling the story. I guess what I'm asking is, how did you know how much to share about Sony prison? How did you know how much to reveal about your Matola period without fear of further repercussion or litigious action or any of those things. Well, you know, in America they can anybody can be religious, and I've noticed that great to that. By the way, if anyone should be litigious, it's me to get a certain amount of years back of my life that were spent basically, you know, under somebody's control. But seriously, honestly, I there were certain stories we didn't even delve into until like kind of the end of the process, like the story at the kitchen table with the butter knife and stuff like that. But these are things that actually happened, and whether somebody else and that you got to look it up to know what I'm talking about, somebody else, you know, felt that that was TMI. I don't care, like that was part of my story. That was a catalyst to get me the hell out of that situation where you sometimes you know a lot of women, whoever it is, I don't want to say it's specifically women, but we tend to tolerate domestic abuse in whatever form that may take longer than sho be taking it. And that's what I did, because emotional abuse is I'm not saying it's worse than physical abuse, but it's it's a form of abuse. It's probably even more damaging. You know, stays with you, Yes, it stays. Yeah, that's gonna ask you, you know, being at that period of your life, what do you think, uh led you into a romantic relationship with you know, the head of your label and you know how like, how did it even get to that point? Again, I would hope that people will read about this because I think when you read about it and you understand what my childhood was like, you understand what my early adult very early we're not even adults they teams about as a struggling singer and songwriter with everything in my head going towards a goal, going towards a goal. I'm not going to be like my family members that I've seen go down the path of drug drug abuse and prostitution and all the things that happened right where a MASSI appeal audience doesn't even understand what that is and if it's ever been you know, used, used, or talked about it, spoken about it in the media, it's always been like for shame, look at it. Like, it's never been like, look at what she actually came out she came from. Yeah, look at what she escaped. Yeah, it's never viewed as a success story. No, but it's also like and I'm trying, and people think I was trying to like look what I came from. Like I'm just saying, I'm not saying that's exclusively a black experience, but it's surely in the middle of the road Princess. Not an adult temporary experience. Oh it's not. It's not anything other than a really, really dysfunctional and hard experience that I went through and multiple times. So when you ask what led to that situation, I didn't have boyfriends like after high school, and I never had like a real an actual serious situation because when I was growing up, I always knew I'm not gonna be around these people. I don't care, like I'm getting out of this go on, I'm going to realize my dreams. This is not a this is not an if, this is a wind. And so when I do, I won't be around these people that I'm around right now who are doubters and who look at me as the scum of the earth. That's what I'm not going to do. So anyway, in dealing with that relationship and how it evolved, there are manyfactors that made it develop. What I will say is he believed in me as much as I believed in myself, and that is the most attractive quality that I can find. So maybe there were other things where it wasn't like, oh my gosh, it's my school, go crush and blah blahlah lah. And you know, knowing that he was twenty plus years older than me and I was a kid, but there's a certain sense of validation and a sense and at the beginning, I'm saying that the sense, yeah, and a sense of security when you're when you're having to fight your own family, your own demons, your own stuff. That that was there. It was, and that's where they got this whole Prince Charming narrative. But let's face it wasn't that, and it certainly didn't evolve into that for a number of reasons that I've talked about a lot, But you know, it was what it was, and I definitely wish him. Well, I just wish I could get back some of those years and just insert like a party every now and then with a couple of girlfriends, or like a fun moment or like a phone conversation without somebody having to be like what you're gonna do, what's going on? What is it? And freaking out and ruining everything and taking it Like, as much as those years were amazing with the successes and things in the early years I'm talking about, it was awesome, very much like, well, you can have fun for ten more minutes and then it's over. Wait, I don't I don't want to spoiler alert, And again Mariah is correct. I think probably the best way to, I don't know, not have the experience that I had. But you know, I recommend that people get this book and taking the information so they can learn like I did. But there's there's one incident I kind of want to ask about, but I feel like it's the most gripping story in the book, so I don't want to spoiler alert it, but I will call it the French Fry incident. I keep okay, I won't say it's the friend I haven't got it yet. She's basically at the height of well, what is what is? What is truly the height of Mariah Idis in a three years story career, I will say that, yes, she's way beyond household name here, and just for her to have a simple pleasure like French fries winds up turning into a near h Will Smith enemy of the State situation with escaping security people and da da da da da. So and I'm asking you. One time, I got to ask will Smith this question, and I asked him, like, what is it when you're in this house alone? How many people here just for you to feel comfortable to be alone, like walk downstairs in your underwear? And he was like, like seventeen people. Jesus, yeah, but he needed seventeen people. No, no, Well, because I've never seen in a state that big. I mean, it's like two hundred and fifty acres and you know, it's like a full scale staff of you know, it's a full staff at at his living quarters and so it's the middle of yeah, yeah, yeah. And the thing is is like I'm like, well, okay, like if you get out of bed and want to get some orange juice at four in the morning, like all these people, your staff is in the house, Like, you can't just be yourself and walk down in your underwear. So I'm like, okay, what's the number of minimum people that have to be in this house for you to feel like I'm alone? And he said seventeen. Normally there's about forty plus people on his property, security and all that stuff. So I mean during that, during the height of what I call between Mariah Carrey and glitter, Yeah, what was I mean, how often even your home, what was isolation or just a moment to yourself, like, like, was it still always with security no matter where you were and even in your house, Like, was it always like that? Okay, so we're speaking specifically about what I'll call sing sing right like that, he refers to her, Yes, we got the house, yes, because because when you when you say up until glitter, that's a whole nother thing, like because I left at Butterfly before but during the rightly just a version yeah okay, but it was that was a whole other thing. So when you read the book, you'll see, Okay, that was its own hysteria and whole thing. So I'll I'll break it up into the couple of years that I lived in that huge mansion which you can google it. There's really no We never took any pictures like you know today, everybody would take pictures of their house. Everybody would make a huge to deal out of it. It's a thirty million dollar mention, massive, sprawling thing that I, by the way, half of pay for half of everything, down to the electric, down to the electric as a twenty something year old woman wows that Twitter would go crazy, I'm saying, but that was me being like, oh, I don't want to be looking my home and I don't want to be kicked out of my own house. And little did I know when he said here's a fabulous piece of property, let's make this a house, I was like, Okay, great. I just got a million dollars for publishing advance or whatever it was. So I'm thinking, I don't know how much stuff costs, and I'm like, okay, I need to pay for half of this because I wanted to be mine. I never want to be kicked out of my house. And when I said I was going to get married I believe in that. I was like, oh, I guess this is for the rest of my life, Like I'm not just I wasn't like, let's just let's see it then we'll get out of it. Whenever. No, you need agency to make it a real relationship, like you need agency, your own yes, your own pensive self worth and everything else that I had worked that hard for to that point. But anyway, at that point there was always security. There was. I would say they were probably about I mean, look when people were coming to the house, like the French five incident that you're talking about, the jail break incident as we call it, Brat and Jakie and all that. I don't know, there were ten security armed security guards. There were you know, there were housekeepers, management, like all those people were there. Did I ever feel like I used to creep down the stairs sometimes and have like a semi private moment until I would hear the beady on the intercom what are you doing? And that would break me out. How the time in every room, the anacom was in every room, because that's a big house. That's yeah. If you wanted to just get a snack in the refrigerator, like I don't eat that. No, No, that wasn't that wasn't said. But it'd just be like I'd get into the I would sneak out of the bed. And I talked about this, like barely trying to trying to not move the bed, and I would sneak out in tiptoe to the back area my closet, go that way to the right, and then sneak all the way around the how you know, down the house, down the side to where the kitchen was. Meanwhile, I could have gone straight down to the kitchen, but I didn't want to walk through the through the bedroom and then went away, came up, and then I would go that way and I would suddenly get into the kitchen and be like, oh, I would have some Chateau we Kim that was around like a little splash whatever, you know, try to whatever was snuck and suddenly did yeah, and I'd be like nothing, you know, it was real. It was that confining. But I will say there is a certain thing in terms of no matter where you go, there you are. Because even here, even in my life now, even having this greatest week possibly because you know, breaking the Spotify record and all the stuff that happened, like I'm not too born, I'm not whatever, but having this happen at this point in my life and the book and all this stuff is so amazing. But then I don't feel like, oh, I can just walk around in my underwear with you know, no judgment or no whatever, or walk around with like even talking to you guys, right and now like walk around with my hair look at a mess of this and that. And that's really because of some of the things that have happened to me where I look at like quote unquote stardom as a fabulous thing and a goal that, once achieved is like you did, whoa. But it also comes with this level of expectation you always got to that you've always got to be on. And if you yeah, not on, no, but even within your own home, people like what like if I'm not walking around like hi, because I've created this festive thing and I'd always be happy and you know, make everybody else feel comfortable for me to just be allowed to be me. And I feel like with the book, I've gotten to a place where I can say to people who may have walked all over me previously, like did you read the book, because if you did, you'd see that you need to actually treat me as like a human being. Where if I'm on a video shoot and there is no water and there is no covering, you know, there is no seat like you like, we were just doing this the Christmas thing with Jay Hud and Iron Garmy, right, so the Apple especially, and I see Jay team and I see the second rebreak right because you know there's the union breaks and it's her team is incredible. They got her seat, they got her water, they got her massage, they got her foot moment, and I'm just like yay Jha because I love her so much. I think she's such an incredible person. She deserves that treatment more than anybody I know. But I took note of it, and I was like, I've been having this struggle for years because what happens is and even my therapist back in the day said to me, when you smile and you're on, people don't think there's a problem. They don't think you don't need to be care of, You don't need to be Yeah, I'm gonna care I'm smiling, I'm here, I'm there, and it's lit well and it's hair and makeup and it's outfits and it's sparkly. And then I then it cuts and everybody goes about the merry way and if I don't have like a little morsel of food or just like someone helped me walk to the trailer or whatever it is. And that's a lack of management, you know. And this is we're talking about two thousand and one. But I'm saying this has been a pattern and even to this day, like I don't know, I just try to make people fit into, like get into this space where I'm expecting them to be caretakers, but really I'm the caretaker and I always have them. So wait, then, is this book like the warning of what's to come then? Right? Because I mean, are you now at a point where you're understanding all these things and so you're are you going into a I don't give a fuck phase? Because I feel like now is the time. Now's the time to go into the I don't give a fuck phases? I don't give a fuck, COVID, I don't give a fuck twenty twenty, like why do you give a fuck? Right? So, in the words of the immortal and ever present Diana Ross and I talk about this in the book, she said to me, well, we're at top of the pops, which you guys know what that is. I know, Yeah, yeah, you know that can make or breaking artists, you might want to give them a little backstory on that. You can see everybody there well, our our our readership, our fans know what top of the pops, you know. But in case some of my lambs happened to listen, it's it was a show that could literally make or break a record in the UK and around Europe. So you would oftentimes run into anybody from Phil Collins to you know, Diana Ross. So what happened to run into And she's there doing her own hair makeup? She she came into my room. You know, she's there, and this is during this is around I'll be their remake time. So that's like I don't want to say numbers of years, but it's very beginning of my career, right a la la la lat. Yeah, but who's kunting? Was it not? Was it not? No? It? Yeah, around that time. I don't even know. It could have been right after that, But all I know is Trey wasn't with me because mss Ross is Trey's favorite, and I was calling him and leaving voice messages with her. But anyway, she she scans the roomb, she's looking around the room and she goes, she sees the hair, makeup, this and that, the wardrobe, the managers, the lookers on, the publicists, whoever they were. And she's by herself doing her hair, doing her makeup, walking barefoot in and out of the room. And she's like in the most glamorous way possible. And she's like, Mariah, one day, you're not going to have these people around you. You're not going to people around you. And she said, someday you're not gonna win to held these people around you. And I was like, and now I'm like, I believe that someday is good. I'm serving a purpose of really helping you. Why are they here? We are in the age of direct messaging, of figuring out your own narrative this stuff. What is the purpose of people if they're not one hundred thousand tillion, what quad billion percent team MC and really really care to be there? Why are you giving away money? I wanted to ask you about one of my favorite jams, yours breakdown with Bone Thugs at Harms. That's what was that session? Like, Okay, so, so first I was with stevee J And actually I had the conversation with Damn. I forgot Stevie J used to do music at one point. Yes, he made amazing music. I forgot Stevie J. Was he was a legit producer. Stevie he was the dude up. Was he as crazy back then as I know him now from the TV shows and such? Yeah, yeah, that's in general, because I don't I don't really keep up with that. I have my own memories of him back then. Stevie J, I know, is the STEVIEJ of VH one reality shows. So I'm just trying to was that person in England? Is that person? Was that him? Always been there? Also very charming, always very charming. I can't say she was in prison then that. But here's the thing, I don't think at that point that it wasn't reality shows and stuff, and it was still a grind because he was a bad boy producer, right, So he was the behind the scenes person making beats. And we ended up so I talked to Kuff about the idea of bone Bounce and harmony, and we were very inspired by Notorious Thugs. But that was obviously a minor moment and then we kind of like flipped it to have more the anemony, like a little like happy part on top of that harder beat. So you know, we ended up knowing that they were that crazy and which bone were going to be on it. And yeah, I was in the studio with Stevie J a lot, and then I ended up recording. I mean, I don't even want to tell this story. One of these days, if there's a potsho, I'm going to tell the this. It includes brownies, It includes say what busy, I'm sorry brownies by myself. No, that session was a complete haze, like when we were all together in the session, But I laid my vocals down first, so by the time they heard the song, it already had that you know, had the It had that whole thing, and they were they were It was clear that I was inspired by their flow and everything. So so when I recorded my vocals, so I went to Florida and it was a whole thing with the brownies and whatever and then and I will get into greater detail at one at some point, But when I listened back to it, because I you know, for my phot it would just be like, okay, browniees. And my assistant at that time was like Queen of brownies, and so she did give me the brownies. And then I'm at this restaurant in Florida after I did the whole day of vocal like doing my backgrounds, doing the vocals, layering them, putting it down, you know, laying out kind of like the parts. I thought it would be cool for the guys, and then they did that thing on top of it and their own thing to it. But I listened back to it afterwards, after I got in the car. After like I got a paranoid moment, like people in the restaurant started recognizing me, going oh, okay, okay, can we take a picture with you? And I was like, had the brownie, So I'm like I still felt like my high school self and I was like, why do they want to take a picture with me? What? Why? What is this? Because I just weren't used to the whole brownie thing, cause I was very never doing that. And then I'm like, okay, let's get out of here. So I get in the car and I put it on and I heard how kind of like how fast I was singing, and I said to myself, what in the hell is this? Like this is not what did I do? I hate this? I don't know not that I hate it. I love the way it came together. You wouldn't have thought on paper. But then when the execution, I was like, I know, So anyway, I loved it after I finished it, but when I read listened back to what after the brownie thing, I thought, yeah, I thought I thought I had wasted a session and that was horrible. But anyway, after the recovery, which is a whole other story, Q tip is involved to be a phone opening, but wow, after that and I'm deliberately being evasive because I have to tell the story of detail at some point. But then they laid there when we got so cut to back at the head factory in New York. A complete and total haze with those guys. But I love working with them, and they you know, they could hear that there was they had inspired the whole thing, so it was. It was. It's still one of my favorites, and I appreciate you. Yeah that speak speaking of which, by the way, from yeah, yeah, speaking of which, Uh, I listened to that Busy boone interview like once a month man a big business man listen, Yeah, that that nigga business bone because business Michael and he a wild boy or two things I have to listen to six times a year just to make it through life. Maura, did you ever watch BT and cut uh? Way back when Yeah, Busy Boy had a song called uh huh ain't like money my zip bags. Ain't nothing like money in a zip like bag. It's It's a classic. Yeah, So uh ma Riah, I have a question, uh with Honey. I always wanted to know this, Okay, So at the time when Honey was first being conceived, I was hanging with Tip a lot and he was mad amped. Yo. I got to sing from Mariah It's going to be better. That is incredible, and then you know, cut to four months later, it kind of went through the bad boy filter, right, And I always wanted to know, like, what was the conversation that transpired that turned it from the original demo that I heard, or at least the idea that he presented to you. I mean, obviously the question is, of course, you know, by ninety seven, anything that he did was instant magic. So it's like, duh, of course I'm gonna, you know, go this route. I get it, But yeah, how did that transpire? Like as far as the changing of it, because the day came out I called him, and you know me again, I'm a patch fiend. I was like, yo, do these are your drum patches? And he was like, no, man, I get and this is a term that Tip always uses. He's like, I gave her nigga drums man and nah man, they used different drum patches. So how did it? Uh? How did it come from what I heard in the demo to what we now know? You know that era, specifically with that song Honey was so much going on in my life. Don't forget that was like that was the first emancipation of Mimi before the actual one happened later, even before Fantasy. I thought Fantasy was sort of the flag planning of that was me. I snuck that in. They didn't really know who ODB was. Had they seen his album cover and knew that he made songs about gonorrhea, I don't think that would have happened. I mean, two years into the Wu Tang clan, like no brasset Sony was like she wanted to do or some rapper you know or whatever. They didn't even know. When I wanted to work with jay Z, they didn't know who he was. Like, they just connected culturally and they thought I was on some kind of trying to be cool tangent music. Right. Really, it really was that it was an operation gap, and it was a cultural gap, and it was just them feeling more comfortable with me going a different route. You know, they wanted to keep it ac They didn't understand, but I didn't care. So but when we go back to that Honey, specifically that record, Yeah, q Tash as I call them que Tash had come up with that body rock sample. I guess that's what rock treacherous three, and I loved it, and I wrote the song to that loop. But then when I guess somehow, I don't really honestly, I think I've blocked this part out. So I don't want to say it in an accurate way. But I know that at the time, Poppy and I had done the other record together, Fantasy, and we were working on stuff. But you know, there's a certain kind of energetically if somebody's like, well let me just close it. It's it was the smarter move because it was it was the smartest move to do. I wanted to incorporate the right as that, Yeah, I wanted to I wanted to incorporate that and we had the regular you know, the straight up loop from the Treachers three, and then I wanted to put that part, the hey DJ part and for my own reasons, which I talk about in the meaning of man carry the memoir when the same meaning and mark the same time. But mess that up anyway. You're so funny. You did that on purpose. Yes, damn savage. Nice one thing. It was. Now read the book, ladies and gentlemen. Wait, am I wrong in trust me? No? No No, no, no, I ask one more Honey question because and I'm wondering. I'm sure you get into it in the book, but earlier on in the book where I'm already at I had discovered your this dislike for the dance, but you just mentioned that, you know, this is also a stage in your life with Honey where you felt free. So I was like, okay, So the freedom to do the choreography and stuff in the video was that, like that free feeling and just saying bucket, like let's just go all out. You know, I talk about my father's mother traumatizing me about dancing roy that baby girls, it's like it's a whole thing. Yes, you know, it's in the books. I said, that part. But but you're dancing and honey, So I was like, did you get you got it back? Like, it didn't turn me into Janet Jackson. It's just one little moment and it was cute, you know. I actually I really loved that video and that that was the only time I ever had fun making a video back then. That's the first time I ever was free to make a video and kind of like express myself and I worked with Paul Hunter and Heartbreaker. No, the Heartbreaker is later in terms of fun, like the first time I had fun that was the Honey video. Okay, I was about to say I thought Heartbreaker was actually like wow, okay, that's yeah, okay, no, no, but that but Honey was the first time there was no ever present other person on set telling me don't do that or telling the director not to film me in a certain way. Oh okay. It was the actual first time, first taste of freedom that I had, even like back in the days. But I don't want to cry video. There was a male model in the video and that got squashed real it was problematic. I had a whole lecture about, yeah, how awkward was it to take control of the rings and decide for yourself what you wanted at that period, least at the at that period of your career, like during honey or you know, that's the whole. So it all stemmed from being able to extract myself from that controlling situation, which was not easy because as you know, I don't know if you know, but like if you get into something as a kid and you allow that pattern to continue, it's very difficult to break free from that because other people just expect you to go along with it. They expect you to go along with it. They're used to you being compliant, and you just deal with it. So especially when you're dealing with someone at that level, which now there really isn't anyone that powerful to me, like because the way the artists were ConTroll a lot. Everybody except me, you are that power. Now, well, we artists can be that powerful at this point, you know, especially if people say that. But back then, everybody was scared of that corporate as I call the corporate morgue, led by specifically one person who was uber powerful. They were all scared to death, including me. So when I started, when I got to the point that I could no longer take it, is when I decided, Okay, I have to break free, and I got to figure out how to do it. So if you listen to the Butterfly album and the lyrics on that album, specifically Butterfly, that was what I hoped somebody would say to me, like wild horses tiled or their spirit diales. You know, I wanted them to say, you know. I wanted them to say that, like, you know, and I truly feel your heart will lead you back to me when you're ready to land. I wanted to hear that, but I didn't hear that, so I wrote it to my I wrote it to someone else as a lyric for that song and for that time, and it was very much what I just I had to gain the strength. Like if you listen to Pedals from the Rainbow album, that's about like all the people that were screwed up in my life. And this is not me blaming everybody else. I'm sure I was a part of it too. I allowed it to happen, but to break free not only from a personal relationship, but from a massive corporate structure where you are have been the number one artist on that label, and you also started out as a child really and also, your whole personal life is surrounded by people that are slaved to that system. It's really not easy to break free. And then the subsequent years when I wasn't allowed to be free, even when I was on another label, or even when I was trying to do my own thing, there was a concerted effort to kind of squash that or squash that, or ever the proper terminology is. So there was until the emancipation of Mimi. There when I got with a new group of people. Fortunately, you know, after all the stuff that happened, there was no there was no freedom, There was nothing. There was a constant fight. Whether I was inside the structure or having gotten out a structure, there was a constant fight, a constant battle, and it just made me sort of implode it and it really really screwed me up. But what can you do? Here? I am and it's great, Hallelujah, thank God. And you know, I'm not going to dwell that stuff. But I talked about it in the book because I wanted to Actually, when people years from now tell my story, hopefully that happens, they're going to have to use that book as a template, like this is actual story. And I look at a lot of people that I admired who didn't get a chance to do that. They didn't They may have told their stories through their music, and people may interpret their stories, and I know some people I'm here like to have everybody else's input and their perspective. But what I wanted was to tell my actual story, which doesn't begin with Roni Carrey put out Vision of Love in nineteen ninety. No, it doesn't begin with that I'm coloring in the wrong crayon with a brown crayon for my father, so they all freak out of me. It begins with like I don't understand my hair, because you know, it begins with all these identity issues, these issues are race, these struggles, and then it goes you know, it goes to the issues of control and people you know, always wanted to have go. And even though that's not my song, but I'm just saying, there's a thing where this is a constant theme. And it's also like just being a woman in a male dominated industry and then a woman of color with all this ambiguity and people deciding how they're going to market me and all of that shit. So what were some of the things you mentioned earlier that you know, you would hear things that they you know, that people would say that you know, you know, you wouldn't be privy to if like if you had darker skin or whatever. So like, what was some of the stuff, and you don't have to attribute it to anyone, but just like, what's some of the stuff you would hear, like white people say around you that you know what I'm saying that you knew they wouldn't right fether about your music or whatever. You know what I'm saying. I'm going the whole the way back to childhood. I'm going to, yeah, going to kindergarten. I'm going to, like I said, coloring with the brown crayon and having the entire the teachers come over and go, ha, why did you use that crayon? Like I used a green crayon, but because they just didn't know so and having the entire class there at me. Basically I was humiliated. And that's the first time I realized I was different from anybody else because they had only seen my white mother coming and going, you know, with my parents also were divorced. I'm quite sure if I had had a different I would have had a different experience with a family that was married. If they were going to be a mixed family, they started that in Brooklyn Heights. If they had just stayed married, stayed in Brooklyn Heights, like where diversity is more. They're used to diversity a bit more than like feeling like, oh, let me you know both of them. I feel like both my parents. Mainly my father was like, I want my kids to have a better life. So he thought moving, you know, like he thought doing Yeah, that was he thought that was going to make it better, but really it made it worse. And I talk about, like, I don't know my ex siblings experiences. I know what I've heard. I'm sure it was horrible for them, and I feel bad for them, but they thought it was easier for me, and in actuality it was probably I won't say it's worse a better, because I can't speak for anybody's experience but my own, but I know that. Yeah, So I tried to deal with that selflessly in the book, you know, I tried to give that sort of like, you know, look, they put me through hell, and in my opinion, I'm not going to say who's water, who did what, But the point is I heard a lot of stuff like I have this song called close my Eyes, which is one of my fans' favorite, and it's from one of my favorites from a Butterfly album, and it goes I was a wayward child with the weight of the world that I held deep inside. Life was a winding road and I learned many things little ones shouldn't know. But I closed my eyes, steady, my feet in the ground, raised my head to the sky, and the time rolled by. So I feel like that child as I look at the moon. Maybe I grew up a little too soon, meaning I was in this fucked up place and I had to grow up on my own and figure it out by myself. You know. So here I am, there is no woe is me. This is just my story. It's unique to me and other people that have had simpler experiences, like yes, we'll understand it, or hopefully it will empower other people to feel like they're important enough, they're worthy enough to exist, because I actually didn't feel worthy. But I did have, thank God, a spark of hope to know that one day I would get out of the situation I was born into. I would say to ask you, all right, do you think that in your marriage to Tommy and what you referred to as the kind of sony prison years, do you think that played a role in you marrying Nick and choosing someone that was, at least on paper, like very different you know what I'm saying, very different from the first marriage. From the first marriage, I mean yeah, on paper. I mean I don't know what was what the marriage was like, but on paper it appeared that way. Yeah, I mean, look the power dynamic in the first Like, I laugh at it now because I would have two marriages whatever. I'm like, what do you mean my first box husband? It's all good. I'm on my second time around too, don't need trip, it's all good. Keep I would just like to be invited. Sorry, go ahead. No, honestly, that was it was fun. It was bad fun, but it was just things. No, it was great. Nick and I had fun and it was like, let's just be kids and have a good time and whatever. And the bottom line is we co parent now and we have two kids that I love that make my life a better thing, that that gave me conditional love, I hope. And so it's a totally different experience. It's a completely different experience. But yes, I don't think I would have ever done. How could I do? There could never be situation where I would be that vulnerable to being fully under somebody else's control like that. Ever, again, that's good. Everybody don't learn their lessons. Everybody don't learn their lessons, so that's good. It's honestly impossible. How can you be You can't recreate like, Okay, there's gonna be this mobile oh yeah, right, kid that has nothing, that has a dollar a week a day, and then they're going to help, you know, give you your record deal, but you're actually going to write all these songs, produce them, do this and that and then and you're gonna make them money and their corporation money. But still they're going to commit still have to split the damn bills. That was me. I blame myself. She won an ownership Mariah. Okay, So now that the book is out h and has done well, obviously, I mean I would think the next logical step, And you know, when I finished the book, I was like, Okay, are already feel like Lee Daniels is already speaking to her like that? Well, but then I thought about it and it just hit me that not not enough brew how was made on your precious performance and precious Yeah, and and recapping your videos for this episode and again also recapping your your your narration of the audiobook. Yeah, I are you ever going to get on? Are you properly going to get on the acting horse again? Has Glitter made you gun shy or like so much after? I know, but I'm just saying that is I feel like that's an area that you really really should explore because you're your comic. Timing is one point with the book and the shorts you did with Funny or Die, We're also funny like engaging. Do you want to explore the acting world and immerse yourself in it for real this go around? Or you just fine with like, Okay, I tried it once and I'm fine. Well, here's the thing. So when I first met the Daniels, it was post Glitter and he was actually and I had done this movie called Wise Girls with Mira Cervina. That, yeah, an independent movie. Yeah, so that could have been a great movie about great but it was supposed to have been narrated by her character. A lot of the scenes were kind of like added at the end. But it's like the land of independent filmmaking. So my original goal was always start. I always wanted to act, but my original like if I had if I could create, like here's my path. It was to start with independent projects, to do things that were character driven, to work with great directors, et cetera, et cetera. But that the whole acting thing was completely a non starter for the corporate morgue one person mainly, and so it wasn't even allowed it And I talked about it in the book, So this is no secret. I'm actually being more caged whatever about it than I was in the book. But it wasn't allowed. It just wasn't allowed. So my path of like, let me do these gritty independent projects was just it wasn't even that. It wasn't encouraged. It was blocked. It was not it was not allowed. So in developing Glitter, what happened was they very much whitewashed it quite literally, you know, the studio, this, that, and then by the end of it there was so much Oh, it just all was so incestuous and the label into trounta with this and that and having what I left, you know, that whole situation that it just became like there was there was no script. It was all over the place and it wasn't night. And then it came out on you know, September eleventh, two thousand and one, So what are you going to do? But then but then me yeah, but then like you know, wise girls and Lee had seen that, and then he was like, I love your acting, like you should. You should be encouraged. So we worked on a couple other projects together, and then we did Precious, which heat He called me the day before and was like, hey, you want to do this. I had read Push by Sapphire, which I don't know if you guys read that, but I read it. Yeah, yeah, anyway, Ron had given it to me We're on the Beach and the Musa and read it twice. So when I knew that Lee was doing the movie, I was like, Wow, did I think there was a part for me in the movie? No? Not really who knew his take on it? But I'm so happy that I did because he's a big he's a great director. He understood what it took to put me in a role and have it be not quote Mariah Carey. So we did that and working with Monique and Gabby was just like really being in it, really being in it, and I loved it. But yeah, can I ask you though, because now through reading the book and knowing your life and the characters that are come in out of your life and the situations that you've been in and knowing that character Imprecious, which I just you blew me away like no bullshit? Tell us between was it something personal that you were drawing from and what was the direction from Lee to you about that character. Lee's direction is pretty much always this, do nothing, do nothing, nothing, like like he no, I'm laughing when I say that, because of course you gets more direction. But let's say, after he gives you his direction, he's like, Okay, okay, do nothing, do nothing, and I'm like, oh wow, how do I do nothing? But I have to say on that particular shoot, we really only did like three or four takes of that, and it was so powerful because so I had worked with a woman named Karen Giordonna, who's a really close friend of mine and who is an acting coach but also a director, and Lee was working with her on Precious, mainly with the girls in the scene at each one teach one and they were it was all in prov he loves in pututization, so it you know, she was like, oh my gosh, this is a this is an incredible thing energetically that's happening with this movie. And she was so excited about it. And then the last minute he called me, and me and Karen just put together kind of like a backstory for the character really quick. And Lee's main concern was, you know, he had a prosthetic nose made for me, which we didn't even end up using, but putting it on and taking it off because my skin is so sensitive, made it in a large Jimmy way. So that was great and for him because I was concern he thought he caught me putting on on making he was like, what are they going? I'm like, oh, but you know, everybody had their makeup and air and there's but his main thing. And I loved it because a lot of people when when the movie first came out, they didn't even recognize me because there was an there was a whole different look. So to answer the initiative question, do all what I do more of it? I don't know. It would depend on the director, It would depend on the role. Honestly, I don't want to do it just for the sake of doing it. I want to do it for the creative experience. But I do know that like I am high maintenance me as Mariah Carey, I'm a freaking high maintenance. No, no, I am. And I've always said it. I said it in some interview. I think it was for The Guardian. I'm like, yeah, I've always been high maintenance. I just didn't have people to facilitate the maintenance. So even as an actress or high maintenance like Mariah the singer, one thing, but when you go to set and stuff, it's still the same. Missis it out for that role? Absolutely not, like and and we wouldn't have tolerated it. Yeah, I just have to get it. If that's the role and that's what we're doing, then that's what we're doing. But if I want to do another project, I love behind the scenes, I love executive producing, I love writing, you know, I love all of that stuff. And yes, I want to act more and I want to do things that are fun. Speaking of which, Emir, how is your experience as currently this is I'm interviewing you right now. That's why I'm I just want to know because I loved that. I loved that moment of you being able to be a part of a part of that without you know, I just in my mind like I would love to do some animation. I would love to do some more of that type of stuff. You know, this is the Soul. I haven't watched it yet, So yeah, how was your experience times here? Was a dream come true? Yes? It was historical. I love it. This is not my interview. You're not getting off, okay, no, but I really think yeah, I mean there's some people that have to ease into acting and do a lot of prep work and you know, get with their coaches and all that. But you you have a really natural, believable acting ability that I think that you should explore more. Like your your timing is great, which I think comes from singing or whatever, but I think you should explore that. So yeah, I really I really do want And by the way, that's a very lot of cheap sense coming from me because chasee level and everything that you know, just knowledge wise, I'm just like, what I the mistake I made with glitter, which maybe it wasn't a mistake, it was probably supposed to have. In that way, you have to have a huge fall for people to care about you. Then I guess I don't know, maybe it's just me. That's just what they how they do to be. But you know, after that experience, I realized you have to work with somebody, a top tier person to bring out the best in you. It's like anything. It's like collaborating on a song, Like you can lead the way and you could be the one doing most of it, but at least you know when you have someone where it's scales are more balanced. I feel like that's that's a different experience, you know what I mean. I'm just putting out there person I believe that he is. And we've been talking about, you know, some ideas. It's just a big to put this memoir and ad apt to adapt it into like where we're talking about taking it. It's going to be interesting. It's a series. It's a it's a series, yeah all day. I mean, just like the early years. Uh yeah, it is. It can easily be an Amazon a part season like a Yeah, that's that's it's a new brainer. We've been talking about that and that's not necessarily Amazon, but I'm saying that's the thing, Like and what to the earlier discussion about why or writing the book or what. I don't know, don't think anybody said why, but just to answer the thing about like how this whole thing happened, I said, initially, I wanted to emancipate my little girl self, like little Mariah. That was the goal, because nobody knew her she was a famous I know, I'm speaking about myself and the third person, but really I feel like my yes, it's like a different person because people she wasn't famous, nobody she was. She's this poor little you know, for what a lot of people thought of as like this mongrel type of person, and so, you know, a sad kid, but with a lot of hope and ambition and stuff. But again, the film adaptation, whether it's the series or whatever, has to be. It has to bring that girl to life, do you know what I mean? It has to It's not just this princess thing that you're seeing. There's a lot of yeah that happened. Hey, is there a person that you've long to work with that you have not worked with yet? Or have you checked off everything off on your your bucket list? My bucket list? No, I don't really have a bucket list. I mean, yeah, yeah, people on it. You're on it. Many people are on it. Like, I'm just not you're saying that to all the curlies. But I mean in terms of I mean because and I don't. I don't consider this, you know, the the the victory lap of all I want to is you as a I don't consider that a curtain call or a swan song or anything. But like, is there is there anything that you haven't done that you wanted to do? Wait a minute, Wait a minute, I forgot. I forgot. I totally forgot. Dude, we have to talk about it. Chick, thank you. I totally forgot too. I forgot. Okay, So you guys don't know. Damn, I don't even know if I should revealed this much. Basically, in the shortest way possible, Mariah pulled a Charlie x c s I kind of popped move she made. It was prior to her. Oh yeah, I know, I know, but I'm trying to put in contemporary. She she basically made a a dummy album or a project. Uh, Chris Gaines, if you will ever, you don't know that that that kind of pop is Charlie xy X's secret. I didn't know. Charlie. Damn, we feel superid yesterday are Look, I work at the tonight show. I have to know who every gen Z person. Yes, there's a song, I get it, but you're the only one that I don't care. I love it. Yeah, I know that you know right. So basically, Charlie x X didn't want to ruin her credibility, so she MILLI vanillied that song all these two model girls named I kind of pop, but kind of backfire because that song became super big pop. Right, even though Charlie x X is, even though she's a name her in her own right, she uses the icon of pop thing as sort of an excuse to It was like Prince and the Time, all right, but we knew that Prince was We knew that Prince was the Time. We knew that Prince was Chili, and we knew that Prince was Charlie Sex. Things was totally. That was totally we just went dumbans I apologize, Okay, So let me rephrase the question. The question was that the general public doesn't know that you've made the secret album called Chick, in which you kind of let loose and made a very convincing alternative rock record. What year did you record Chick? The same year that I was doing the Daydream album? So ninety five? Yeah, always be My Baby and okay and all that. Yeah, can I find it? No, I wanted to get I didn't know how close to the chest you were with it, so I didn't share it with him. But can we one song? Can we play like a part of a song? May? I mean? But I just can I can? I give my own little disclaimer about this? I mean, yes, what you need to do? Okay when the credits, Well, we'll play it at the end of the show. Okay, but don't we don't play the whole song. But I just want to say what really was going Unless you want to ask me about what was your I do want to ask so okay. So to set it up, you you made kind of your version of Seattle grunge, neilistic all rock record. You know what what was on your mind? Like what made this happen? It's it's one thing to do one song, but you made a whole ass album out of it. I was like observing the landscape at that time as a twenty whatever year old music and having success in a very kind of specific couple of genres and looking at other people that seem to be able to just be so as I, me and my friend call it so fucking care free, Like how are you so care free that you can do whatever you want? You can wear whatever you want? Now, I guess everybody can, but at the time, it was just like, oh I can. They could just wear like a dirty slip and socks, and you know what I mean, Like in that grunge moment, I was jealous. I have to say. I was like, and not that my image was perfect. And now if I could go back and unblow out my bangs, I would definitely do that and have different styling and stuff like that. But you know, so I was looking at it and I was like, because I did grow up listening to like Blondie, and not lusively Blondie. I just mean, if there were other genres, it would be like you know, Pat Benaitar and Blondie and then whatever rock groups. And then you know, I was a child of the radio, so I listened to all different things rock music whatever, you know, mainly obviously like R and B and soul music and Gosmine whatever, but then there was also this like heavy rock quotient that was around like where I was growing up. So yeah, yes, but there was everything. There was obviously there was hip hop, there was this, there was you know, whatever it was. But there was a very strong thread of that happening, right, So when I saw the whole grunge thing going on, I was looking at it like, oh my gosh. They just say whatever they want. They say anything that they want, and they get away with it. So I would be like working on let's, for example, say like one Sweet Day, like mixes or whatever, we're doing overdubs, and the band would be there, like my band from the little touring that I did. So I just one night was like I was just singing stuff and making fun of, like not making fun of, but just like doing my own little impersonations as I do. And then I said to Gary, who was my guitar player at the time, I was like, can you just play? Because he's sitting there with his guitar and he was doing overdubs on something totally different. I'm like, can you just play it? Like whatever? So we starts playing it and we just that's a song called Joe. That's not the one I would love to he I would love to hermit. But so then I just started writing stuff down like anything I wanted to say, finished it in like five minutes or ten minutes, and it was relaps. But then as the projects that like every night when we would be working, and actually, like the corporate people were on a trip to Italy at that time, so they weren't there to stop the flow. So wait, you allowed you allowed Sony Brass in your sessions. I had to allow one brass member who was like the Breass. I forgot. I totally forgot. Okay, never no nobody else he even he wouldn't allow anybody else in there. But never, never during my vocals was anybody loud. And then they still not, but I'm saying like they would be if they were around. It would be like a swift, let me pick you up at seven and we'll go to dinner at Lascala or wherever. And then I had to be in that wifey world of corporate people. So it took me from like a complete creative head to here I am like I think such and such. You know, we talk about it in the chapter called Thanksgiving is Canceled. That's kind of one of my favorite things and then this year Thanksgiving really was canceled, so it was ironic. But anyway, so I ended up every night like recording something new and writing something new, and it was just as a creative outlet. But then I would then we actually mixed it and did it and recorded it, you know, recorded it, mixed it, mastered it. Would you do it in another room because I mean, ninety five, I don't think it's that. I mean, now I can tell Steve all right, put this other song up a real quick and he can, you know, sort of with technology and a snap do that. But ninety five you're working with reels and that sort of thing. So there are still pro tools at that time, so you would just make them erase the board and then put up your reels that you work on your Like, weren't they scared, like, well, what if Tommy comes in here and sees what we're doing? Or no, because at a certain point I told him he knew about it, but it wasn't like we were. We had separate reels like I've just found them that saying the name Wow the group. So after we you know, they the engineer just started rolling like you know, I mean, at that time, it wasn't like we had to worry about, oh my gosh, a new roll of tape, like you know we had to do and you know, most that was printing money. Yes, yes, and we want to do that again, but it's impossible because with streaming, we know that the artist makes less than you know, what percentage of a penny do the artists make basically one? Yeah, yeah, something crazy, yeah, very small. I failed a medio map, so I don't know how to do that math. But I just know if you did one hundred and thirty million streams in a week, you should make at least a dollar off that. And you know, this was a lab of love and just this was just me being like, let me just do this, write it down whatever. The musicians loved it because it was totally it was a total departure from what we were doing, and they got to be free, they got to just we were all kind of in a in an act like it was an act, It was a whatever you call it. It was what do you call it? What did you call it? An all rock? Alternative rock? Uh, what's the future of it? Well? Well, well, well red folks ever know, will it all be like a red Herring. I feel like if you officially released it, though, the magic ends. Like that's the thing, Princess the Black album was so legendary when it was like a secret one song, just a one song, and then that she came out and it was like it came out and there's like the magic's over here. Yeah, I mean to your point about it being what did you say when you first brought it up, Oh, doing one song versus doing an album like you did a whole album. And I also, did you see the artwork? I did the artwork myself. Yes, that's not nice, y'all. This is me, my friend Clarissa, and I said, you know what, because certain people were like, oh, you can't put this out there. I also changed the lyrics so a lot of it was a little bit more with the perfinity and stuff because no, but he made me change it and put something I know. But I have the wheels at this point, so at some point I'm gonna put out my own version. But I don't have the board mixes. All I have like all the separate tracks, like ten guitar tracks, and you know all of this, Mariah, do you know what record store day is? Man? Man? Okay, clean the fuck up. I'm gonna tell you how to do this sun So Record Store Day. It happens in the second Saturday of April, and they made a second one for Black Friday in November. But what it is is sort of sound nerd audio there. It's like us people. I mean, this is the equivalent of like New Jordan's coming out. So some people will sleep outside of what was formerly known as a Meva Records in la I mean it moved to another location, it didn't shut down. But basically, Record Store Day is a day that pretty much everyone lives for in April to buy like rare you know, somebody Jack White will print joint yeah exclusive, so Jack White will print up like five thousand copies of some particular like song that you know, it's either a forty five or maybe like a ten inch or whatever, but they do it. They do it in small numbers, so it's almost like art and usually you know, somebody will wind up paying like a gazillion dollars on eBay for it or something like that. I think you should make I think you should make five thousand copies of the record that you intended to make and just secretly release it or record store day and just let the legend of Chick go out that way. I agree, and you know what, I think it should be that and also the artwork should be I should do the original artwork. And so I freaking people don't even know. I literally wrote, Okay, so it's a dead roach that's the cover. Then it's a lipstick written chick on top of it that I wrote in my handwriting. The title is some ugly daughter. That's the title of the album. And then the back of the album is a crushed makeup thing, a makeup like eye shadows or pink blue pastels. And then I just did, like with a fork at the hit Factory. I just like did and then took a picture of it, and then wrote all the wrote all the song titles on the back. And then the CD itself, I did, like kiss it like it's a whole thing, like the actual the physical CD is amazing. And somebody gave me a copy. Somebody gave me a copy because I didn't have one, like you know, it was for laps. And then like I did it, and then they ruined it by making it not that they ruined it. I love Cloric, So she did a great job singing on top of it, and we worked on a couple songs. I didn't send you those two. I did the original album as intended. That's what I sent to you a milor. But anyway, so it became like a thing where it wasn't allowed to be meaning or what I was gonna do is back then release it, do a total different character visually, and then hopefully have a hit with one of the songs, and then reveal that it was me and be like huh. Because at that time, it was very much like if you were quote unquote popular on the pop charts, you could not have critical acclaim. They just didn't give a chap. They just didn't care. It was just like a da da da, you know, we like this artsy person, we like this edgy person, whatever, And so it was what it was. But at this point I do think Chick me us to have its own thing. And I actually been having conversations with someone I'm not going to name about doing like another version of Chick some of those songs and writing a couple of new ones. And I'm asking you now if you will write those with me, or at least like explore it, because she's a young sixteen year old girl who is very famous and she's perfect for this, and We've already had conversations about it, and I'm planning on, like hopefully working on it. It's coming out, yo, Billie. No know that. I'm like, yo, actually now I'm riah. But why actually, why you bullshit? Actually? Why you bushit? I knew who you choose Mariah, but on the real yeah, right, talked about she and I. She's an actress, but she wants to sing as well, and you know it's a good look. It'll work with her too. It'll work I'm talking about right, Yeah, I know it'll work. Okay. I think you should. I think you should definitely do that, Rio because out of I mean you've been talking now for like three out out of everything that you've talked about, this is the most excited you sounded about anything. M hmm. Well, because I can talk about my own top stories all the live long day, but this is something that and it's something that's fun. It's not you don't see that. I'm not thinking and it sounds like you. I mean, it's just I'm just from you know, just sitting here having these conversations. You know, this sounds like the thing that most feels like it most represents you. You know what I'm saying, Like it seems like true to who you are. I mean, the music represents me, I'm not saying if it doesn't. It represents a silly side of me that was at a time really needed an outlet. It was a musical, but it was for laughs, which is how I get through most things, is just making jokes and getting through it. So it was like combining to kind of to defense to not defense mechanisms, to escape mechanisms, you know, to you know, it was music and it was fun and it was me like just writing relapse. That's why I want to play that song Hermit, because but the funny thing is even my daughter Monrose like so she heard it. She heard the song Malibu, and then she heard the rest of the songs and she just started singing the one Hermit that goes um like it's an accident. She heard it. She goes, she's nine, She goes, Mommy, can you send me the Chicks album? And I'm like, Yo, it sounds amazing. This record sounds amazing. Okay, we are not wait, Mariah, this long without happening music in the background. To be honest with you, because this is we're on zoom. If this was the real format of the show, then I would have the ability to add music, but zoom that would have been I know, I miss roll call. Yeah I know. I was like, Oh, I'm glad I don't have to just put under that pressure. I miss roll call. But wait, can I ask something though? So basically, what was what what what I'm gathering is what was freeing for you and what elated you was sort of the care freeness of creating music kind of without a care and being honest and just putting it all out there. It was also I would have to get through without laughing some of the time. That was part of it. Yeah. But humor. Here's the thing though, And even though I'm like clam even though I'm clamoring in the mountains on the mountaintops about your acting, it's really your sense of humor, which I never knew you had, you know what I mean, Like my fans knew, no one to know. I can't expect people to know, you know, Like it's just like you know, let me rephrase it. No, no, no, no, I'm not on the outside looking in. I've been to many of Mariah concert I've I've I've know, I know you have a sense of humor, but it's it's relaxed timing. But what what I feel that the white elephant question I want to ask is like, would you ever try to create an album in that vein? Not under the guys of like, well, I'm gonna do music genre this totally the opposite of what I'm known for. Would you not ever try to extra size that sort of freedom and your actual Mariah career, not like, hey, guys, let's have some fun and do an alternative rock record, or let's do a somber record, or let's do an afrobeat record. And I hear what you're saying, but I never said to them, let's do an alternative rock album. I was just in that era when all that stuff was huge, and they happened to be very talented musicians in the room who could easily pull that off. And actually sometimes we deliberately did stuff not perfectly. Yeah you had to play down, but it was fun, like it was just fun. So to answer your question, I would love to do, honestly, have another concept that I want to told to you about that. We also kind of touched on when I would do whatever, like no, I don't want to ever, I'm not I'm not inspired to do a somber record. I'm not inspired to do like whatever. I mean, I would totally do something that's not my genre. Here was the great thing about that moment. It was just free. It was just free. And I know people experience that without having an alternative ego or whatever, like most people experience that. I'm sure when you're making music most of the time it's out of joy, like I don't know, I can't be here by anything. But it's not constantly nitpicking yourself or putting yourself like oh I hate that, let me do it again. Like that's that's how I am. But is it easy? Is it easy for you to create and craft songs without having to also be your judge and jury and executioner, like you know, to the point where, okay, I have to make sure that this is notes correct, Like I'm a guy that loves I love mistakes. I love imperfection. You know, I love wrong notes, I love bending notes. I love you know, I love imperfection so much, Like but could you do you think you could ever like let your allow yeah and put it out, or just do it for labs now put it out as not as like a side silly project, put it out as Mariah Carey. It depends on what it was. I would have to be in the room and feel what we're doing, Like what's the inspiration, what are we doing, Like where are we coming from? Like, yeah, we could. I would all day, experiment all day. I'm not going to commit to prior to oh yeah, this is definitely coming out. I would have to live with it, you know, Okay, what's your thought and mirror? Well, this is the thing. I'm glad we finally did this interview so we can have normal conversations because you and I have been cat and mousing for so long, because I wanted our initial conversation to be this podcast. I get not nerd out on you in real life. So y'all have been talking this whole time. Yeah, but I mean, like I've I've been purposely holding back because usually when I start friendships, it's it it starts in the guise of journalists, and that makes people uncomfortable. Like hey, by the way, when you did at the court, and like I wanted to get that out the way here. What brought y'all too together? Anyway? The book really the book, the book that's right. Doesn't hitting you up about the food, the ritz crackers, Yeah, exactly. The book strung me in so yeah, now a friendship inform that's dope. No, it really means so much to me because you know, you are an incredible writer and your level of knowledge is just you know, as we all know, nobody's truid. But then the whole thing with the food and the book, it's a thing. How turn out it was one of the best years. I gotta say. It was one of these Christmas is I gotta try this linguini. It's like daddy's linguini, your dad's clam sauce. She only she only does it for Christmas. That's the part I texted Mirror about. I was like, I want some of that, Yeah, exactly, tell you it's really good. And I didn't even know the secret ingredient with the onions because for years I was like, why can't I find any restaurant that makes my dad like mix better than my dad's linguini with white clem sauce like these Aalian restaurants even in Italy, they don't do it as well. I was like, what is it that you know a black man from Harlem. Me just said, you just said it. There it is. But but but they didn't tell like he didn't. I never had the recipe. And then like the year before he died, he gave me the actual recipe and looted it down. And then yeah, and then who's the best gift he ever gave me? And then I realized what I was doing wrong. I never knew. I never saw him onions in it as a kid. But they liquefying the PM. That's the secret. So every year now I just do it, and it's this Christmas Eve, it's every Christmas Eve. I just decided I'm not doing Christmas dinner with the traditional nonsense. It was a mess this year, no offensive this year or whatever. But the turkey was dry, and everything you cooked last Christmas you cooked last Christmas. We're in January now, so yes, yes, I cooked my dad's recipe for Lincoln or I clamsaus Eve and then then I did Christmas dinner. But I supervised it, but not well enough. See it's a constant thing. You have to micro manage everything and I'm so tired of it. Anybody listening to this podcast, please me. If you're not a psycho and you just want a job as like a facilitator, you feel that you really want to be out on a level where we're going to get to a very very different levels starting this year. You're talking about food. No, no, I'm talking about administrative assistant. I'm talking about executive and hiring. And you're not. You do not want We can't even organize this freaking podcast. I think this this came off without a riot. No. I appreciate you. You you truly let your guard down. I don't think you've ever given a three hour interview before. I haven't, so I feel honored and I feel the love that you trusted me so much to do this for me. Even when you agreed, I was like, oh man, this might be like Michelle Obama, like twenty five minutes. Oh my god. No, hanging out with you guys and having you splash and stuff, and thank you for having me and and everything else. Mariah. We think he's so much for doing this for us. Thank you so much, and thank you for the music. Thank you so much for caring. So yeah, you guys, don't forget I'm hiring. Oh my god, I'm going to take that off the podcast Jesus Christ for three hours. You need to make sure you get me somebody for real. Snybody. I got you, I got you. Help you can help you with that. I got you. I'm I'm an expert in this area. I got a right. Thank you for sharing the truth. It was a beautiful story. I mean, I know a lot of it was hard, but thank you for sharing. It was really brave. We appreciate it, all right on behalf of a sugar Steve Fan, Tikeolo and unpaid bill. You missed one unpaid bill your fault, bro. Love you guys, thank you, We love you all right. Yes, ladies and gentlemen. I know we made a promise. This is a hermit from the Lost Mariah Carey Chick Project, which is actually kind of dope. Dick it. I hope you do too, all right, See y'all, ycome sot A present hiding welcome busters, go yo, what's up? This is fante. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast all Right Peace. What's Love Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. 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