May 11, 2025

Oceans, Space-Time Stiffness & Ganymede's Hidden Crater: A Cosmic Q&A

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Questions About Oceans, Space-Time, and Impact Craters
In this engaging Q&A episode of Space Nuts, host Andrew Dunkley and the ever-knowledgeable Professor Fred Watson tackle a variety of intriguing listener questions. From the depths of Earth's oceans to the mysteries of space-time and the latest in astronomical discoveries, they provide insights and fascinating discussions.
Episode Highlights:
- Exploring Earth's Oceans: Listener Pete sparks a discussion on the origins and depth of Earth's oceans. Andrew and Fred Watson delve into theories about water's presence during Earth's formation and the intriguing idea of what our planet would look like without its vast oceans.
- The Stiffness of Space-Time: Doug's question leads to a deep dive into the concept of space-time stiffness, comparing it to steel and exploring how scientists measure this property. Fred Watson explains the relationship between mass and the distortion of space-time, shedding light on this complex topic.
- New Antenna Array Developments: John in New Mexico asks about the Next Generation Very Large Array (NGVLA), prompting a discussion on its significance in the astronomy community and how it compares to other major arrays like the Square Kilometre Array. Andrew and Fred Watson highlight the advancements and potential scientific contributions of these new technologies.
- Impact Craters in the Solar System: Rusty raises questions about the largest impact crater on Ganymede and its comparison to the Aitken Basin on the Moon. The duo explores the implications of these findings and the fascinating history behind these celestial features.
For more Space Nuts, including our continually updating newsfeed and to listen to all our episodes, visit our website. Follow us on social media at SpaceNutsPod on Facebook, X, YouTube Music, Tumblr, Instagram, and TikTok. We love engaging with our community, so be sure to drop us a message or comment on your favourite platform.
If you’d like to help support Space Nuts and join our growing family of insiders for commercial-free episodes and more, visit spacenutspodcast.com/about
Stay curious, keep looking up, and join us next time for more stellar insights and cosmic wonders. Until then, clear skies and happy stargazing.
(00:00) Welcome to Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Fred Watson Watson
(01:20) Discussion on the origins and depth of Earth's oceans
(15:00) Exploring the stiffness of space-time
(25:30) Updates on the Next Generation Very Large Array
(35:00) The largest impact craters in the solar system
For commercial-free versions of Space Nuts, join us on Patreon, Supercast, Apple Podcasts, or become a supporter here: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/space-nuts-astronomy-insights-cosmic-discoveries--2631155/support .

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Hi there, thanks for joining us again. This is Space Nuts,

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a Q and A edition. My name is Andrew Dunkley,

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your host. It's good to have your company. Questions today

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coming from Matt, who wants to talk about the oceans

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on Earth. Doug is asking about the stiffness of space time.

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We have talked about that before, but he's got a

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different idea. John is asking questions about a new antenna array,

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and Rusty is honing in on something we talked about

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late last year, the largest impact crater.

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He wants to go further than the surface of the Earth.

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So we'll talk about all of that on this episode of.

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Space Nuts fifteen second Channel ten nine ignition sig on

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Space Nuts NI or three two Space Nuts as when

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I report it, Neil's good and he's done all his homework.

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He's ready to go.

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It's Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at LA TE Right.

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I've just realized there was one bit of homework that

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I didn't do, which mind it will be all right.

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Well, it's a thing called guessing. We can do that.

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We can do that. That'll solve it. Shall we just

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get straight into it?

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I think we all too, Yes, I think that would

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be a very good thing to do.

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All right.

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Our first question is a text question from Matt High,

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Andrew and Fred.

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I have a question for you.

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That's good because this is the Q and A segment,

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so it's good that you've got a question. I was

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thinking about what the Earth's surface would look like as

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a rocky planet without any water. Imagine if you happen

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to live by the sea and could stand on the surface,

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how different you're part of the world would suddenly look.

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You'd probably fall a long way too in some parts

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of the world. That started me thinking, what is it

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that determines how far our oceans got filled up? Why,

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for instance, aren't there smaller and why aren't they much

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smaller and only a max of say a few hundred

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meters deep. What's the physics that governs how much total

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water we ended up having on Earth? And if you

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can share some wisdom on that, it would be grand.

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Thank you.

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I love the podcast, been listening for a few years.

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But this is my first question. Keep up the good work.

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Thanks Matt, well thanks for sending in the question. We've

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talked about how.

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Water ended up on Earth, and there are all sorts

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of Initially the thought was it's carried by asteroids, but

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then they started thinking, know that they wouldn't carry enough.

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And the latest theory is that when the accretion of

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the planet happened.

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The water was already there, which would.

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Probably go a long way to answering Matt's question about

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how come there's this much.

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Yes, maybe that's right. In fact, you probably answered it

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in that regard, although I think the astroid and comet

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theory still carries weight and holds water. It holds waters.

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I was avoiding that term. The thing that put doubt

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on that was the mixture between heavy water and normal water,

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the isotope ratio, because that mixture in the earth sotionis

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doesn't really match what we find in comets because we

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can analyze the vapors that they give off when when

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they get near the sun. And I mean, in fact,

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we brought samples back from certainly from asteroids. So but

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you're right. I think the prevalent idea is that the

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water was intrinsic to the Earth's formation and maybe it

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just got topped up a bit by asteroids and comets.

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So that does.

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To some extent answer the question. It is to do

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with the you know, with the inherent mix molecular mix

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of the constituents of the cloud of gas and dust

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from which the Earth and the Sun and the Solar

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System were formed. I think it's not necessarily a done

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deal though, because we think about some of the ice

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moons of the Solar System, which are effectively covered in water.

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They have far more water than the Earth has in

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its oceans. And I'm talking now about places like Europa,

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like Titan Saturn's moon, Titan juice to Moon Europa. These

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are ice worlds, have got a liquid water ocean with

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a covering of solid ice on top of that. So

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they're basically global water worlds, except they're covered with ice.

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So a bigger world of that kind would have a

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global ocean. And we when we're talking about K two

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eighteen B, that planet whose atmosphere has shown some possible

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biomarker chemicals. One of the possible scenarios on K two

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eighteen B is a world that is actually covered in water,

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that it's a global ocean, that it's got a thick

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enough atmosphere that the atmospheric pressure balances out the water surface.

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So you've got the situation like we have on Earth,

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where you've got equilibrium between the liquid and the atmosphere.

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So it may be that, you know, our Earth could

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have had more water. Maybe some of it's evaporated, maybe

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some of it has dissociated into its component chemicals, component

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elements hydrogen and oxygen, which have been lost into space,

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as we think has happened on the planet Mars. So

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maybe you know, there is certainly snowball. Earth is one

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of the things that we think happened in the history

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of our planet, that it was covered with ice, with

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an icy surface. It's a great question that that asks, though,

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about you know what the Earth will be like if

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you imagined it without the ocean? Those trenches. What's the

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deepest one eight kilometers or something like that, Yes, and Andreas,

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I think yes, which will be pretty impressive.

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Yeah, can you imagine the Earth without water? Yes, Andreas, No.

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It's not. And it's the what's it called Pacific Trench?

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Yes, it's a Pacific one. I don't remember.

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Either, the Marinara Trench.

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That's the one.

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Yeah, it's.

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It's incredibly deep.

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It's about.

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Yeah, I'm just trying to find it now. Yeah, if

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you imagine Earth without water, you could do some incredible

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sky diving there I reckon without having to catch a plane. Yeah,

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but getting out that would be the fun part, I imagine.

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But yeah, it's I can't find the depth of it,

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but it is. It is something massive. But they have

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sent submarines down deep into it.

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Yes, with other people on board.

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Yeah.

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Here it is twenty six eight hundred and fifty feet

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or eight one hundred and eighty four meters deep. What

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I said, Yeah, you're right, you're doing very well. So, Matt,

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if the Earth did not have oceans.

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It would look very, very different.

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It would be quite spectacular in places, to say the least,

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because there are mountain ranges under there the ocean which

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we can't see. Yeah, and even you've got you've got

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things like Hawaii, which is a super volcano, but you

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can only see the tip of it.

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Yes, I do wonder though. It's so you know, there

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are significant differences. So plate tectonics is the key thing here.

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The ocean plates are different from the continental plates, and

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possibly a lot of that is the fact that they're

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being weighed down by the water, and so without the

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water they might bounce up a bit and you might

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get a much more level playing field compared with what

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it's like now.

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Well you see evidence of that around New Zealand where

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the Milford Sound and all the other and Dusty Sound

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and all those beautiful areas are they're still lifting after

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the ice Age where the glaciers compressed the ground, and

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you can see evidence of the rebound effects. So, yeah,

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you're right because the water ways, I don't know how

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you'd measure it, but it's incredibly heavy, it's and putting

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a lot of pressure on those areas. Yeah, the Earth

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could look very different if all the water disappeared, and

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it probably bounced back pretty quickly. Yes, in this in

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geological time, that's right, Yes, yes, absolutely, Thanks for the question, Matt,

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Howpe we adequately answered that for you. Our next question

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is an audio a question from Doug Hi.

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This is Doug and Hazel the Wonder Doodle calling from Whitby, Ontario, Canada.

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Second time caller. Thanks very much for the show. The

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question today from Hazel is we've heard people talk about

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the stiffness of space time being something like one hundred

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billion billion times stiffer than steal and we're wondering how

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that can be when space time doesn't matter, so to speak,

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How can you measure the stiffness of space time, and

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what exactly are you measuring? Thank you?

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How long is a piece of string?

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It's a great question, and I appreciate that one because

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this is one that has always fascinated me. So what

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you do is you look at the way matter distort space.

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And we know that very very well from Einstein's general

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theory of relativity. We know what the distortion is for

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a given amount of mass and a given size. That's

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why we understand black holes because of the fact that

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the space is so highly distorted. So what you do

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you look at the way matter distort space, and from

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that you can determine a property called the Young's modulus

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of space, which is a kind of geometrical property. It's

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usually applied to solids as exactly as Doug has said,

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you know, how can you measure its stiffness when it's.

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Not a solid.

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So what you do is you know that it's flexible.

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You can see the way matter flexes it, and you

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go from there to saying if it was a solid,

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it would have this property. And the property we measure

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is something called Young's modulus. I remember doing Young's modulus

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as a physics experiment at school. You hang weights on

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a bit of wire and that gives you the amount

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of stretch, the stiffness of the wire with the weights

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hanging on it, and so you can do an equivalent thing.

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And it's exactly the number actually that that dog has said.

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It's one hundred billion billion times stiffer than steel ten

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to the power twenty.

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There is a there's a paper.

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It's pretty easy to find it on the web. It

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was written by let me see if I can bring

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it up. It is by Kirk T. MacDonald who's at

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Princeton University. So this is probably the you know, the

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almost the headquarters of gravity, because that's where where Einstein

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did a lot of his work. He's he's got a

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little paper that you can find online what is the

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stiffness of space time? And the answer I've given is

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the classical answer, the tenth to power twenty. He's got

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a quantum answer as well, and you can throw in

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something about cosmological sound waves and electromagnetic waves and enjoy

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yourself with some of the equations there. But that's basically

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where that number comes from. It comes from that paper.

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Yeah, And it's not so much about the physical attributes

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of the universe. It's about the fabric of space time

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itself and.

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The way it behaves.

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Yeah, yeah, because we have talked about it before, and

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I think when we first talked about it, I was

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quite astonished by how stiff space is. Yes, in the

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scheme of things, but when you compare it to steel,

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I guess it puts you in a mindset of a

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physical thing. Yeah, that's right, like an object, But that's

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not really what it's about, all right, short answer, but

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there's yeah, that's pretty well documented. And yeah, you can

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even certainly look that article up, Doug and learn more

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about it. And thanks for the question, and thanks for

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introducing us to your puppy dog. This is Space Nuts

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Andrew Dunkley with Professor Fred Watson, a Q and A edition.

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If you're heading overseas soon and you want to be

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able to get data on your mobile service or your

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Murder Spacemuts. Our next question comes from John I live

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00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.320
in Cloudcroft, New Mexico, in the United States. Today's Albuquerque

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New Mexico newspaper reported on NGVLA it will replace an

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existing twenty seven and TENA array with one hundred and

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00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.320
ninety two each new foundation, four hundred and thirty tons,

264
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each new antenna generating one point five terror bytes per second,

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00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:36.080
and each eighteen meter tall structure weighing one hundred and

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thirty tons. How will this new antenna fit into the

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00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:46.639
astronomy community, and he makes a reference to the square

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kilometer Array and Meercat arrays that are being set up

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in Australia and South Africa. Thank you, John, I didn't

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00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:53.720
know about this one.

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00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:57.000
Yeah, it's been in the pipeline quite a while. So

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the VLA is the very large Array in New Mexico.

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We visited it a few years ago, a very impressive

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set of antennas, and essentially it's been a really productive

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machine for research. The VLA back going back to the

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nineteen seventies, and there's a note on their website that

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says it's been used for more than eleven thousand different

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observing projects and had an impact on nearly every branch

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of astronomy. So what has happening, what is happening now

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is an upgrade to make it the next generation very

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large array, the n GVLA, and exactly as John says,

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it's got similarities actually to the mid frequency component of

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the square kilometer array, which is in South Africa and

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is basically an extension of MEERCAP, which is an existing

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array in South Africa. So that also will have antennas

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00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.480
about two hundred, much the same as the ng VLA.

287
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:10.279
Will have what I was looking for. This is a

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00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:14.279
bit of homework that I didn't actually do. It's it's

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it's going to have a frequency range which I am

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00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.319
not sure about. It's probably quite similar.

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One point two gigahertz or twenty months in amis to

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one hundred and sixteen gigaherts.

293
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:34.799
Okay, that's rather more, I think, the than the mid

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frequency of the of the Square Elementary Observatory. I think though,

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00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:46.400
the other thing is that the ng VLA will have

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a much wider spacing of the antennas. They're talking about

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00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:00.559
over nearly nine thousand kilometers. So this is continent why stuff,

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and that's certainly bigger than the array in South Africa,

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00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.319
and so it will probably be used for different signs.

300
00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:12.279
So the answer to John's question is that, yes, these

301
00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:19.720
things do dovetail together, maybe in frequency and in spacing,

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00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:24.920
in antenna spacing. It's the sort of thing that astronomers,

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00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:29.720
you know, they don't tend to work in isolation. They

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00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.440
have complementary things. And it's a bit like the three

305
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.680
ELTs that are currently being planned or built. Extremely large telescopes.

306
00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:41.119
These are optical telescopes in the twenty to thirty meter class,

307
00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:45.519
and well, there's only one of them that's anywhere near completion,

308
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.880
and that's the European extremely Large Telescope thirty nine meter instrument.

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But there are two others that are still on the stock.

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So I don't know how the current funding situation in

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00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:59.279
the US will affect them because they require a huge

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00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.599
component of u US funding even though they're international projects.

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00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:06.240
They're the Giant Magellant Telescope and the and the TMT

314
00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:10.599
the thirty meter telescope in YI, so that it's a

315
00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:13.880
similar situation. I think you've got differences. There are nuances

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00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:18.319
of differences between them. They will have different strengths in

317
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.640
terms of their capabilities, and the astronomical community throughout the

318
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.160
world we'll be glad to have them because the one

319
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:28.359
thing that we're always short of is is astronomical facilities.

320
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.119
Telescopes are rare things when it comes to this, you know,

321
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:37.359
things of this size, of this stature. So great to

322
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.079
welcome the n g v l A into the you know,

323
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:41.799
into the mix.

324
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:46.759
Yeah, they say the arrail achieve high surface brightness, sensitivity

325
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:50.160
and high fidelity imaging on angular scales down to the

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00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:56.400
milli arc second, and it will extend out to one

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00:20:56.440 --> 00:21:00.680
thousand kilometers and it'll have longer baselines or across North

328
00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:01.880
America and Hawaii.

329
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:04.400
Yeah, it's just pretty amber out.

330
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.359
Longer comes from I mean that we've seen this already

331
00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.200
with the you know, the Events Horizon telescope, which goes

332
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.279
over basically the diameter of the Earth is the is

333
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.319
the baseline for that, But it's only that that's on

334
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.279
the nine telescopes or something like that, or nine observatories.

335
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:24.119
Yeah, I mean, I think it's great that they can

336
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:28.279
integrate so much hardware over such vast distances to make

337
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:32.839
them you know, super telescopes basically, and they're so much

338
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.599
more powerful and the other data will be very interesting.

339
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:39.680
I'm sure we'll be talking about it at some stage.

340
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:43.319
John, So keep your ear to the podcast platform that

341
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.599
you use and there will be more.

342
00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:46.440
Thanks for the question.

343
00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:49.720
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Questions about the largest.

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Oceans, Space-Time Stiffness & Ganymede's Hidden Crater: A Cosmic Q&A

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