How SpaceX Breaks Satellite Records and What It Means for Earth Orbit Safety

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Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us. This is

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Space Nuts. We talk astronomy and space

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science and sometimes we talk about things

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that have got nothing to do with astronomy

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and space science. You just never know. We

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throw up all sorts of things and sometimes we

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throw up. Uh, today

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we will be talking about SpaceX. They're in

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the news again and it's all about the

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numbers. And I'm not talking their share

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price. Well, actually, I probably will. Um,

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educating the public about the real moon.

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It's a, ah, it's an issue that NASA thinks

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needs to be dealt with. We've got a Three Eye

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Atlas update. Yes. You thought it was long

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gone, never to be spoken of again. Not true.

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Fascinating, uh, facts have been, uh,

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revealed about this amazing little rock

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and,

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Professor Fred Watson: and

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Andrew Dunkley: we might have to start again.

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Professor Fred Watson: I'm sorry, I can cut this bit out. Just cut

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that bit out. I'm sorry. M. Marty's just got

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back from walking the dog. Hi, Marty.

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Andrew Dunkley: We that bit in?

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: That's okay. And what was the last thing?

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Uh, our, uh, son's death.

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Professor Fred Watson: I've already interrupted it.

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Andrew Dunkley: G'.

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Professor Fred Watson: Day.

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Professor Fred Watson: Sorry.

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Andrew Dunkley: You're right.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's all good. It's all good.

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Andrew Dunkley: It's only the intro.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's only the intro.

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Andrew Dunkley: Not an important bit. Anyway,

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whatever I was talking about is all coming up

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on this episode of space

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nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9. Ignition

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sequence start.

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, space nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 4, 3, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4,

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5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

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Professor Fred Watson: Space nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report. It feels good.

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Andrew Dunkley: Takes me back to my old radio policy. If

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somebody walked into the studio, they were on

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the show and that's exactly what happened.

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And joining us aside from Marnie is Professor

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Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at large.

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Hello, Fred Watson.

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Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Sorry.

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Andrew Dunkley: That's okay.

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Professor Fred Watson: I'm glad.

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Andrew Dunkley: I don't mind. I don't mind. I used to work

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with some radio people who got so annoyed, so

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annoyed if they were interrupted, any reason

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whatsoever. We even had one guy who

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wouldn't even accept you looking

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at him through the window.

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Professor Fred Watson: Really?

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, he used to get really steamed

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Professor Fred Watson: from the producer suite through to the.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: When he was in the studio, you weren't

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allowed to go in and you weren't allowed to

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look at him through the window. Three solid

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hours of isolation. Uh, yeah, it was,

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um. And you know, sometimes you'd do it

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accidentally.

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Professor Fred Watson: Of course you would. Yeah, yeah. Of course

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you would. Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, they were fun times.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Um, so Marnie's well and you're well and

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everybody's well.

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Professor Fred Watson: We're doing all right. That's right.

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Andrew Dunkley: And something else that's doing well is

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SpaceX. Probably not their share price,

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which, uh, is currently showing what they

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call correction, but it hit a

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massive high not long after the,

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um, company went public. But, uh, now,

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uh, what do they call it? Adjusting. Yeah,

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adjusting.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Um, those numbers are,

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um, a bit alien to me. Uh,

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as I've said before, I only understood. I

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only understand billions when they've got

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light years after them. Uh, but they have

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dollars after them. And I have watched, yes,

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I've watched the fortunes of, um, SpaceX

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since the IPO. See, I'm in the jargon there.

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The initial public year, uh,

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and uh, yes, you're right, it looks as though

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it's going to be back where it started. I

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think the way things are going,

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Andrew Dunkley: that's generally what happens. And sometimes

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they keep going below that and they bounce

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back later.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um,

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Andrew Dunkley: I find it really bizarre that we base our

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entire wealth and future on

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something as volatile as the stock market.

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I've never understood that side of the

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business world. And your whole retirement

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is based on this stuff? Uh, in

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some cases, and especially in Australia with

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our superannuation system and um, you

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know, you could just be. I've known people

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who were just about to retire and there'd

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been a big crash and they had to work another

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decade.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's just. Wow.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, Gosh, wow.

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Professor Fred Watson: M. Scary stuff.

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Andrew Dunkley: Anyway, we're not talking about that today.

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Even though we were talking about that today.

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Uh, we're talking about, uh, uh, something

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else to do with Elon Musk's company,

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SpaceX, and that is that they have,

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um, They've basically set a space launch

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record.

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Professor Fred Watson: They have. It's really quite a milestone when

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you think about it. What they have

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done, uh, is launched

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15,262

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satellites, uh, as of June

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12th. I mean, they're launching so many, uh,

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you've got to pick a date for it. But June

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12, 15,262 satellites.

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But here's the rub, here's why it's a record.

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The combined total of all

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other companies and organ

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since 1957, when Sputnik 1 was launched,

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is 15,138.

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So SpaceX has now launched more

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satellites than anyone else in

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history combined. Combined.

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Andrew Dunkley: Wow. So they've more or less doubled the

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number of satellites by themselves.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Except a lot of those, uh,

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they're

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Andrew Dunkley: not up there anymore.

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Professor Fred Watson: A lot of those aren't up there anymore. I

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think they have. I think it's about 11,000

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operational Starlink satellites At the

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moment, but there's that have re entered and

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1,000 more that are not activated yet. Those

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are the sorts of numbers. Um, so

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it means uh, the total

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few days or a few weeks since I looked at

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this figure, but it's about 15,000 altogether

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is the number of operational satellites with

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of course huge numbers of ones that are no

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longer operational and even more numbers of

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bits of space junk that you can't track.

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But yes, what an extraordinary record. And of

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course what's brought this

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is uh, uh, what's brought SpaceX

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to this milestone is the Falcon 9 rocket

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which has been so successful,

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um, uh, they're now reused. I think

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the record is still 33 for the number of

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times a Falcon booster has been reused. That

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would have been unthinkable, uh,

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not much more than a decade ago. It was 2015

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when they launched, when they had the first

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recovery. Um, yes, ah,

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really quite remarkable. So there were 165

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falcon flights in 20. 25. That's

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uh, you, that's uh, three a week basically,

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isn't it?

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah. That's incredible. And of

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course he's talking about that um,

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supercomputer satellite system that

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he wants to um, create and that's going to

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put many, many more up there if he goes ahead

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with it.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's a million. That's right. Which is uh,

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eye watering in many ways.

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It makes you shed tears if you're an

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astronomer. Um, what's going to speed

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basically for

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Andrew Dunkley: artificial intelligence systems, isn't it?

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Professor Fred Watson: It is, yes. It's they're orbiting the plans

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for an orbital data centre with a million

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linked satellites. And what will enable that

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or yes, what will facilitate it, perhaps

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that's the word is the next step, which is

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already, it's already been tested out, is

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launching these satellites using uh, Starship

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rather than the Falcon, because Starship can,

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I mean falcons typically, they launch about

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20 at a time, 20 Starlink satellites at a

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time. With the Falcon 9 um,

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it's when you move to

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Starship you're talking about much, much

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higher numbers. I don't know how many they

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could launch but it's probably uh, well over

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100, maybe even in the 200s. Wow.

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Andrew Dunkley: I know astronomers wouldn't be happy with

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another million satellites up there crunching

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AI data. But um, interestingly

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enough we were talking to our son the other

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day who works in um, uh,

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I suppose you could call it the uh,

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gross retail area of electronics

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and he is frustrated at the

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moment because he'll get a client that wants

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quotes on various electronic Items, and

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we're talking smartphones, other smart

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devices. And then when the

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order comes in, the price has been hiked

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because of a lack of random

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access memory available because it's being

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chewed up by AI companies.

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Professor Fred Watson: Oh, interesting.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. So there's a world shortage

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of, um, RAM and DRAM and a few other,

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um, memory chips that are required for

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household devices like computers,

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um, because they're all being

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eaten up by these, uh, AI facilities.

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It's a bit of a problem at the moment.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's a good point. It hadn't occurred to me

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that there might be a shortage of that sort

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Andrew Dunkley: of thing because, well, and it's hitting the

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household market. People who want to buy a

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computer for themselves at home, uh, facing

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price hikes because of this. So

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it's a thing. It is a thing. So maybe,

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maybe Elon's found a way around that, or

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maybe he's getting all the chips. I don't

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know.

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Professor Fred Watson: Well, I think that's what it is. Uh, yeah. If

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the AI companies have got first dibs on, uh,

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the memories for the data centres, that's

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where it's all going to happen. Yes.

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Andrew Dunkley: It's like when I was at school, Fred Watson,

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you don't share your chips.

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Professor Fred Watson: You were lucky to have chips. We didn't have

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chips when we were at school.

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Andrew Dunkley: Just to live in a tin pan.

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Professor Fred Watson: Oh, boy.

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Andrew Dunkley: So, yeah, things are, um, steadily moving

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along for SpaceX and they've achieved

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a major milestone, which probably won't stop

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there, but they're 100 ahead of the

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collective number of satellites put into

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orbit around Earth since 1957.

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Um, yeah, they've doubled the number and

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some. And probably will continue.

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This is Space Nuts, Andrew Dunkley here with

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Professor Fred Watson Watson.

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Professor Fred Watson: Roger, your lab is right here.

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Professor Fred Watson: Also Space Nuts.

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Andrew Dunkley: Our next storey takes us to the moon.

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It's kind of in fashion again now,

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particularly with the Artemis programme and,

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uh, the recent mission to fling people around

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the moon and take some pretty pictures and

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witness some of the amazing things that

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happen on the moon. However,

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NASA believes that things need to be done

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properly in terms of educating the public.

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Why is this happening?

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, it's, uh, the initiative of a

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professor of astronomy and planetary

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sciences in the Department of Physics at the

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University of Central Florida, whose name is

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Daniel Britt, uh, and

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he's very well up, uh, in

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what it's like on the moon because he's

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director, uh, of the Centre for Lunar and

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Asteroid Surface Science. So

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they had, um, what they call a Space

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Resources Roundtable earlier this month,

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uh, and this month being June uh, 20,

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26, uh, at the Colorado School of Mines.

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And that sort of gives you a bit of an idea

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where this is coming from.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, and uh. So um,

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Professor Britt, uh, Daniel Britt,

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uh, says um.

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And really to put this in a nutshell, to put

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the nub of the storey, he says, I wish I

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could say that engineers and managers know

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better, but they don't. We are training a

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generation of engineers not to worry about

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terrain. If the artists are

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getting it wrong when they depict the moon,

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it's our fault. Let's stop fooling ourselves.

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Um, and basically he went on

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to complain uh, about a number

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of uh, the sort of artists

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representations of the lunar

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surface, um, which are

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promulgated by commercial space ventures,

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but also NASA. Um, and

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I've actually had the same thought.

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I've seen some of NASA's artists impressions

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of you know, a base on the moon and what they

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look like and thought that all looks very,

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very neat and tidy. Uh, very neat

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and tidy indeed. And so um, what Daniel, uh,

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Britt has done is kind of

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highlighted uh, all the things that are wrong

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with those pictures that might actually

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transform the way we think about the lunar

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surface.

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Andrew Dunkley: Why is that such a problem though? Um,

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is this going to um. You know, what

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00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:38.940
does it change?

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Professor Fred Watson: So um. The reality

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is different from uh, what we

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depict. So if you're always depicting the

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lunar surface as something neat and tidy

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then. And you're training your engineers who

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are building the spacecraft and doing all the

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rest, you know, setting up all the

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infrastructure and they've got a false idea

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of what it's like. And so what um, Daniel

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Britt has done is highlighted

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some uh, of the, you know, some of the

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problems uh in those illustrations starting

331
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with small craters and the

332
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lunar dust. Uh, and um,

333
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it goes on to talk about dirty astronauts,

334
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dirty equipment and dirty habitats and you've

335
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only to look at um, some of the

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imagery from the Apollo missions to see

337
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how dirty the astronauts get

338
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because that dust gets everywhere. It's

339
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uh, as it said, captioned to ah, one of

340
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um, uh, Daniel Britt's images. Dust is a fact

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of life in lunar ops. It gets everywhere.

342
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Uh, and so we've got the Apollo

343
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experience to judge from. Um.

344
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And it's also

345
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going to be um, much more difficult

346
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to cope with the dust uh in the

347
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Apollo programmes because you're

348
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uh, in the south polar region of the moon.

349
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That's where, sorry, not Apollo, Artemis,

350
00:14:03.810 --> 00:14:05.920
uh, Artemis is concentrating on the south

351
00:14:05.920 --> 00:14:08.700
polar region of the moon. And the. That

352
00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:11.580
means you've got a very Low sun angle and

353
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the dust is just going to be everywhere.

354
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Uh, and you know, um,

355
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uh, so you might have interference from

356
00:14:21.620 --> 00:14:24.579
the dust, but also, um, if

357
00:14:24.579 --> 00:14:27.380
you're walking around on the surface, it's

358
00:14:27.380 --> 00:14:29.380
going to be very easy to miss because of the

359
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lower sun angle. The sun's always in your

360
00:14:31.140 --> 00:14:33.020
eyes. It's going to be very easy to miss

361
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little craters and there are small craters

362
00:14:35.540 --> 00:14:38.270
everywhere. Um, uh, it's

363
00:14:39.620 --> 00:14:42.220
a really difficult environment in that

364
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regard. Uh, and he goes on to

365
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um, you know, to sort of spot,

366
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uh, the other things that are going to be

367
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problematic. Um,

368
00:14:53.100 --> 00:14:55.620
uh, one of them is the number of boulders

369
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there are as well on the surface. Um,

370
00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:00.900
um, it's got a.

371
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The Apollo images, he

372
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says, uh, were taken down sun.

373
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In other words, you're looking with the sun

374
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behind you. Uh, and that gives.

375
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It sort of hides all the shadows of all the

376
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boulders and things that were lying around.

377
00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:18.910
Um, I mean we've talked before about how

378
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lucky Apollo 11 was because there were, you

379
00:15:21.910 --> 00:15:24.270
know, when Neil Armstrong was bringing the

380
00:15:24.350 --> 00:15:27.030
lunar module down onto the surface, uh,

381
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all he could see was all these boulders.

382
00:15:31.380 --> 00:15:34.340
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, And I'm just looking at a

383
00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:36.740
real image of Apollo 15

384
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and they had a dicey landing as well.

385
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They actually landed on a piece of

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ground at an 11 degree tilt.

387
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Professor Fred Watson: That's correct, yes. That's one of the other

388
00:15:48.100 --> 00:15:50.580
issues that he's highlighted is the tilt,

389
00:15:51.150 --> 00:15:54.140
uh, uh, of the terrain that you

390
00:15:54.140 --> 00:15:56.820
land on. Um, Apollo 14, 7 degrees,

391
00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:59.700
Apollo 15, 11 degrees. And yes, that's quite

392
00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:02.680
a serious angle. It is. That does not,

393
00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:05.680
um, go well if you've got a

394
00:16:05.680 --> 00:16:08.680
very tall landing craft, which is what the

395
00:16:10.520 --> 00:16:13.280
SpaceX's starship will be. Starship? The

396
00:16:13.280 --> 00:16:16.160
Lunar Lander. Um, that's one of the

397
00:16:16.160 --> 00:16:18.480
two, um, landing vehicles that are currently

398
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.160
being considered by NASA. That's. I can't

399
00:16:21.160 --> 00:16:22.960
remember what it is. I think it's 37 metres

400
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.360
tall. It might be even taller than that. It's

401
00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.640
enormous. And if you put that on an 11 degree

402
00:16:27.640 --> 00:16:30.130
tilt, you're going to be worried that the

403
00:16:30.130 --> 00:16:32.010
things are going to fall over, which will not

404
00:16:32.010 --> 00:16:32.610
be good news.

405
00:16:32.690 --> 00:16:34.290
Andrew Dunkley: You're going to have to pick a really, really

406
00:16:34.290 --> 00:16:37.010
good spot and they're few and far between on

407
00:16:37.010 --> 00:16:39.370
the moon. And I can imagine, you know, a

408
00:16:39.370 --> 00:16:42.340
vertical landing craft like

409
00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:45.210
uh, that a very tall rocket is going to blast

410
00:16:45.210 --> 00:16:47.410
up dust like nothing else.

411
00:16:47.490 --> 00:16:50.170
Professor Fred Watson: Yep, that's right. Uh, and in fact I think

412
00:16:50.170 --> 00:16:52.170
there's a quote from one of the Apollo

413
00:16:52.170 --> 00:16:55.090
astronauts because of the amount of dust that

414
00:16:55.090 --> 00:16:57.530
was being blown up by their exhaust as they

415
00:16:57.530 --> 00:16:59.170
were trying to land, they couldn't actually

416
00:16:59.790 --> 00:17:02.430
sea. Uh, where. Where to.

417
00:17:02.510 --> 00:17:04.510
Where. Where was the safest landing

418
00:17:05.150 --> 00:17:05.550
point.

419
00:17:06.030 --> 00:17:06.179
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

420
00:17:06.179 --> 00:17:07.990
Andrew Dunkley: Ah, that's scary, isn't it? And not to

421
00:17:07.990 --> 00:17:10.990
mention that dust is one of the big perils

422
00:17:10.990 --> 00:17:11.870
of electronics.

423
00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:13.310
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right.

424
00:17:13.390 --> 00:17:16.070
Andrew Dunkley: You don't want dust getting into anything. In

425
00:17:16.070 --> 00:17:18.030
fact, I think in the early days of home

426
00:17:18.030 --> 00:17:20.750
computing, one of the big problems was,

427
00:17:20.959 --> 00:17:22.750
uh, you had to keep your computer cool, but

428
00:17:22.750 --> 00:17:25.110
in doing so, you're sucking dust into the,

429
00:17:25.110 --> 00:17:27.190
into the machine and that's. That could get

430
00:17:27.190 --> 00:17:29.990
into the processes and the. And the

431
00:17:29.990 --> 00:17:32.850
drives and. Yeah, all sorts of trouble. In

432
00:17:32.850 --> 00:17:35.720
fact, um, if you ever open up a home,

433
00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:37.810
um, computer, particularly an old desktop,

434
00:17:38.210 --> 00:17:40.370
first thing you notice is all the dust.

435
00:17:40.370 --> 00:17:42.650
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's correct, yes. Which has been

436
00:17:42.650 --> 00:17:44.960
sucked in. Exactly. As you've said. Um,

437
00:17:46.130 --> 00:17:48.330
if I can. There's a couple of paragraphs that

438
00:17:48.330 --> 00:17:50.970
really sum up, ah, Daniel Britt's view of all

439
00:17:50.970 --> 00:17:53.330
this. And remember, he's a professor of lunar

440
00:17:53.330 --> 00:17:55.890
surfaces, so he knows what he's doing. Yes,

441
00:17:55.890 --> 00:17:58.010
he says these are artists impressions, but

442
00:17:58.010 --> 00:17:59.890
somebody is telling the artist what to draw.

443
00:17:59.970 --> 00:18:02.450
I love the idea of landing and operating on a

444
00:18:02.450 --> 00:18:04.470
moon without dust, small craters and rough

445
00:18:04.470 --> 00:18:07.470
terrain. However, we see the misconception

446
00:18:07.470 --> 00:18:09.950
of a flat, gentle moon everywhere. Commercial

447
00:18:09.950 --> 00:18:12.590
providers are just as bad. No dust, almost no

448
00:18:12.590 --> 00:18:14.310
small craters, no tipping problems.

449
00:18:14.310 --> 00:18:16.650
Yes, these are artists impressions and, uh,

450
00:18:16.670 --> 00:18:19.269
getting it wrong. NASA knows better. All

451
00:18:19.269 --> 00:18:20.990
these people should know better. But don't

452
00:18:20.990 --> 00:18:22.910
let's not fool the public. We owe them better

453
00:18:22.910 --> 00:18:25.110
data. He's really having a go about it, isn't

454
00:18:25.110 --> 00:18:25.390
he?

455
00:18:25.390 --> 00:18:26.950
Andrew Dunkley: Well, I think he's got a good point.

456
00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:28.870
Professor Fred Watson: He's got a very good point. Yes, he has

457
00:18:28.870 --> 00:18:29.580
indeed. Yeah.

458
00:18:29.760 --> 00:18:32.100
Andrew Dunkley: Um, you know, we might go on holiday there

459
00:18:32.100 --> 00:18:33.820
one day and we'd turn up and go, this place

460
00:18:33.820 --> 00:18:35.400
is crap, it's a dump. Um,

461
00:18:36.460 --> 00:18:38.860
where's the pool? Oh, yeah,

462
00:18:39.020 --> 00:18:41.660
yeah, it was in the

463
00:18:41.660 --> 00:18:44.340
brochure. Um, but no, I see his

464
00:18:44.340 --> 00:18:47.180
point. And, um. Yeah, I suppose

465
00:18:47.180 --> 00:18:49.660
organisations like NASA who have

466
00:18:50.060 --> 00:18:52.860
basically led the race to the moon since

467
00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:55.530
the year Dot. Um, yeah, probably should.

468
00:18:55.600 --> 00:18:58.360
Should just take a bit of notice of what he's

469
00:18:58.360 --> 00:19:01.200
saying. Yeah, for sure. If you'd like to

470
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:03.200
cheque that storey out, it's a good read.

471
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:04.960
It's@space.com.

472
00:19:06.350 --> 00:19:07.800
uh, let's move straight on to our next

473
00:19:07.800 --> 00:19:08.400
storey, Fred Watson.

474
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.280
And this one is, uh. Oh, gosh, something

475
00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:13.520
we've spoken about, uh, several times

476
00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:15.400
recently because it was a pretty exciting

477
00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.000
find. That was Comet, uh, 3i

478
00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:20.800
Atlas. What brings it back to the

479
00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:22.800
fore? I thought it was all dealt with and

480
00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:25.660
gone and on its way to wherever the heck it's

481
00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:28.580
headed. But it's, it's

482
00:19:28.580 --> 00:19:29.340
back in the news.

483
00:19:29.580 --> 00:19:31.540
Professor Fred Watson: It is back in the news and I think it's back

484
00:19:31.540 --> 00:19:33.580
in the news. Um, this might be the.

485
00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:37.340
Well who. Never say never but I

486
00:19:37.340 --> 00:19:39.100
think this might be the last major paper

487
00:19:39.580 --> 00:19:42.300
about UH3i Atlas

488
00:19:42.380 --> 00:19:45.220
and its composition and what

489
00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:47.700
we now know about it. And it comes from a

490
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:50.460
number of studies principally

491
00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:53.020
using uh the Webb Telescope.

492
00:19:54.600 --> 00:19:57.420
Uh these are analyses of

493
00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.660
the outgassing, the material that's

494
00:19:59.660 --> 00:20:02.540
outgassing being outgassed uh from

495
00:20:02.540 --> 00:20:05.340
3i atlas surface. Remember it's ah, an

496
00:20:05.340 --> 00:20:07.340
interstellar asteroid. It has entered the

497
00:20:07.340 --> 00:20:09.860
solar system. Last October I think was when

498
00:20:09.860 --> 00:20:12.420
it was discovered uh zooming through at

499
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:14.700
speeds in the region of 60 kilometres per

500
00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:16.540
second which is too fast for it to belong to

501
00:20:16.540 --> 00:20:18.620
the solar system. And it's now on its way

502
00:20:18.620 --> 00:20:21.620
out. Uh but uh, a lot of um,

503
00:20:21.830 --> 00:20:23.430
resources have been used to observe it

504
00:20:23.430 --> 00:20:25.870
because it's a free gift from another solar

505
00:20:25.870 --> 00:20:28.710
system. The fact that we've got uh this

506
00:20:28.950 --> 00:20:31.390
object coming through and so the

507
00:20:31.390 --> 00:20:33.910
analyses that have been done are

508
00:20:34.790 --> 00:20:37.510
really very very interesting uh

509
00:20:37.510 --> 00:20:40.070
in terms of what they tell us about

510
00:20:41.190 --> 00:20:44.190
the wide blue yonder, about the chemical

511
00:20:44.190 --> 00:20:47.110
composition of solar systems other

512
00:20:47.110 --> 00:20:49.860
than our own. And and in

513
00:20:50.100 --> 00:20:52.740
the same breath it sort of tells us

514
00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:56.300
uh a bit more about our own solar

515
00:20:56.300 --> 00:20:59.080
system, how unusual it might be uh

516
00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:02.140
because this is something quite

517
00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:05.019
different. Um so the two

518
00:21:05.019 --> 00:21:07.820
studies involved, one which was conducted

519
00:21:07.820 --> 00:21:10.500
using the Webb Telescope, uh and the other

520
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.020
uh which was led by um an astronomer from the

521
00:21:13.020 --> 00:21:15.220
University of Edinburgh uh which was one of

522
00:21:15.220 --> 00:21:18.100
my alma maters, uh, uh that was

523
00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:20.840
using the Very Large Telescope, the vlt uh at

524
00:21:20.840 --> 00:21:23.760
Cerro Paranal in Chile, the European

525
00:21:23.760 --> 00:21:26.160
Southern Observatory's major facility.

526
00:21:26.800 --> 00:21:29.280
And what they've done is essentially looked

527
00:21:29.280 --> 00:21:32.150
at isotope ratios. Uh

528
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:35.160
they've looked in particular molecules,

529
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.760
particular molecules like H2O water,

530
00:21:38.080 --> 00:21:40.760
CO2, carbon dioxide, CO, carbon

531
00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:42.620
monoxide and um

532
00:21:43.840 --> 00:21:46.640
there's a plot uh which is on. It's actually

533
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.780
basically NASA's press release about this. Uh

534
00:21:49.780 --> 00:21:52.400
the press release is titled NASA's Webb Find

535
00:21:52.620 --> 00:21:55.500
Clues to Ancient Distant Origin of Comet 3i

536
00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:57.980
Atlas. And the plot shows

537
00:21:58.620 --> 00:22:01.460
sort of the um isotope ratios.

538
00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:03.620
It's basically too small for me to read the

539
00:22:03.620 --> 00:22:06.140
individual numbers on it. Um but

540
00:22:06.300 --> 00:22:08.380
for uh all the

541
00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:11.940
um solar system comets that have

542
00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:14.430
been observed, uh including I notice uh

543
00:22:14.780 --> 00:22:17.700
Comet Hartley 2 which is uh one discovered by

544
00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:20.690
my old friend and colleague Malcolm Hartley,

545
00:22:20.690 --> 00:22:22.860
uh it was visited by a spacecraft a number of

546
00:22:22.860 --> 00:22:25.000
years ago. He became a, an international

547
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.160
celebrity because of that, we, uh, used to

548
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:28.920
work together at the Schmidt UK Schmidt

549
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.770
telescope. But that's one of the, um,

550
00:22:31.800 --> 00:22:33.800
solar system comets that they highlight in

551
00:22:33.800 --> 00:22:36.360
this plot. And you can see that the various,

552
00:22:36.910 --> 00:22:39.759
um, aspects, notably what are called

553
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:42.520
heavy carbon and heavy hydrogen. So these are

554
00:22:42.520 --> 00:22:45.160
different isotopes of carbon and hydrogen.

555
00:22:45.320 --> 00:22:48.240
You can see where they sit in

556
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.240
the solar system, this whole line of

557
00:22:51.910 --> 00:22:54.710
red circles which are, uh, representations on

558
00:22:54.710 --> 00:22:57.510
the plot, um, all in a neat,

559
00:22:57.510 --> 00:23:00.350
neatish line anyway. And then way off

560
00:23:00.350 --> 00:23:02.710
to the right at, uh, much higher

561
00:23:02.870 --> 00:23:05.870
ratios of carbon 12 to carbon 13 and much

562
00:23:05.870 --> 00:23:08.690
higher ratios of heavy hydrogen, uh,

563
00:23:08.870 --> 00:23:11.390
to normal, uh, hydrogen, which we've talked

564
00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.110
about a lot. But way off to the right is

565
00:23:14.110 --> 00:23:15.190
3i atlas.

566
00:23:15.500 --> 00:23:18.000
Andrew Dunkley: Um, so that's saying the concentrations are,

567
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.150
uh, more significant.

568
00:23:20.030 --> 00:23:22.670
Professor Fred Watson: They're very, very different, different

569
00:23:22.750 --> 00:23:25.390
concentrations of the isotopes. Um,

570
00:23:26.670 --> 00:23:29.150
and that basically,

571
00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:33.390
uh, suggests, um, some of the issues

572
00:23:33.790 --> 00:23:36.750
on the history, uh, of

573
00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:40.670
the comet. I might read a little bit because

574
00:23:40.670 --> 00:23:43.230
there's some very nice summaries here on the

575
00:23:43.230 --> 00:23:45.170
press release. Um,

576
00:23:46.110 --> 00:23:48.590
so one of the M instruments used on the web

577
00:23:48.590 --> 00:23:51.390
showed only traces of carbon 13 compared to

578
00:23:51.390 --> 00:23:54.110
lighter weight carbon 12. This points to a

579
00:23:54.110 --> 00:23:56.990
very old origin for 3i atlas

580
00:23:57.150 --> 00:23:59.230
as stellar systems become enriched with

581
00:23:59.230 --> 00:24:01.710
carbon 13 over time as generations of stars

582
00:24:01.710 --> 00:24:03.870
are born and die in the galaxy. That's why

583
00:24:03.870 --> 00:24:06.110
there are higher levels of carbon 13 in our

584
00:24:06.110 --> 00:24:08.310
system around our sun, which formed

585
00:24:08.310 --> 00:24:10.990
relatively recently, 4.5 billion

586
00:24:11.070 --> 00:24:13.480
years ago. Um, it,

587
00:24:13.750 --> 00:24:16.400
uh, also says, uh, there were

588
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:18.800
exceptionally high levels of deuterium, about

589
00:24:18.800 --> 00:24:20.960
30 times more than seen in solar system

590
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.880
comets. This implies that 3i Atlas

591
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:26.440
may have originated in a very cold system

592
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:28.750
much earlier in the history of our, ah,

593
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.680
galaxy. Um, uh, so these

594
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.070
are all clues about, uh,

595
00:24:34.520 --> 00:24:36.920
the origin. And, uh, once again, reading from

596
00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:38.360
the press release, the research team

597
00:24:38.360 --> 00:24:41.160
estimates that 3i Atlas could have formed

598
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:43.960
as long as 10 to 12 billion years

599
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:44.280
ago.

600
00:24:44.580 --> 00:24:44.980
Professor Fred Watson: Wow.

601
00:24:45.140 --> 00:24:47.660
Professor Fred Watson: During the universe's cosmic noon, when star

602
00:24:47.660 --> 00:24:50.180
formation was at its height, its young

603
00:24:50.180 --> 00:24:53.060
origin solar system was likely ensconced

604
00:24:53.060 --> 00:24:55.620
in a relatively cold, dense cloud.

605
00:24:56.020 --> 00:24:58.980
The abundance of heavy water shows that 3i

606
00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:01.980
Atlas spent its formative years in a deeply

607
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:04.740
frozen state. This is quite extraordinary.

608
00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:05.700
Andrew Dunkley: Amazing.

609
00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:06.000
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Ah,

610
00:25:07.780 --> 00:25:09.540
Andrew Dunkley: it's come from a place that was very

611
00:25:09.540 --> 00:25:11.970
different to now. Um, and, and

612
00:25:13.890 --> 00:25:16.690
I guess that's the difference in

613
00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:18.850
terms of the time scales we're talking about

614
00:25:19.090 --> 00:25:21.090
what it was like then, what it's like now.

615
00:25:21.570 --> 00:25:22.530
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right.

616
00:25:22.850 --> 00:25:24.450
Andrew Dunkley: It's like a little time machine.

617
00:25:24.770 --> 00:25:27.769
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Uh, but yes, exactly. It's a

618
00:25:27.769 --> 00:25:30.210
time capsule. It's a lovely time capsule.

619
00:25:30.500 --> 00:25:33.330
Um, in uh, the way it's been analysed,

620
00:25:33.810 --> 00:25:35.730
I'd have to say I take my hat off to all

621
00:25:35.730 --> 00:25:38.650
these scientists for the imagination that's

622
00:25:38.650 --> 00:25:40.950
been used in, in devising the experiments

623
00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:42.950
that have been developed. These observations

624
00:25:42.950 --> 00:25:45.870
tell us, uh, quite unequivocal things about

625
00:25:45.870 --> 00:25:48.230
this object which we would not otherwise have

626
00:25:48.230 --> 00:25:50.710
known. And it again highlights

627
00:25:51.590 --> 00:25:54.310
just how different our own solar system is to

628
00:25:54.630 --> 00:25:57.390
probably most of the other solar

629
00:25:57.390 --> 00:25:59.550
systems that we can look out of and look out

630
00:25:59.550 --> 00:26:02.280
of beyond our galaxy and see, um,

631
00:26:02.550 --> 00:26:05.550
something formed 12 billion years ago that

632
00:26:05.550 --> 00:26:07.990
would be very, very different from the

633
00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:09.480
universe that we see now.

634
00:26:10.430 --> 00:26:12.790
Andrew Dunkley: I think it's incredible that in this day and

635
00:26:12.790 --> 00:26:15.150
age that we can look at a rock hurtling

636
00:26:15.150 --> 00:26:18.030
through space at 1.4 billion kilometres

637
00:26:18.030 --> 00:26:19.950
distant or wherever. You know, it was close

638
00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:21.590
in that at one stage, but you know what I

639
00:26:21.590 --> 00:26:24.430
mean, and be able to break it down and say

640
00:26:24.430 --> 00:26:26.670
this is exactly what we're looking at. And

641
00:26:27.230 --> 00:26:30.070
because of that we think it came from the

642
00:26:30.070 --> 00:26:32.870
early universe. Yeah, it's just incredible.

643
00:26:32.870 --> 00:26:35.710
Incredible. Uh, and a great storey to,

644
00:26:35.840 --> 00:26:38.830
um, uh, read, uh, which you can do at, uh,

645
00:26:38.830 --> 00:26:41.690
The NASA website, science.NASA.gov uh,

646
00:26:41.850 --> 00:26:43.610
you can also read the paper which was

647
00:26:43.610 --> 00:26:46.250
published in the journal Nature. This is

648
00:26:46.250 --> 00:26:48.450
Space Nuts, Andrew Dunkley with Professor

649
00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:49.370
Fred Watson Watson.

650
00:26:51.770 --> 00:26:53.530
Professor Fred Watson: I'm going to step off the land now.

651
00:26:55.770 --> 00:26:58.090
That's one small step for man,

652
00:27:01.130 --> 00:27:03.450
one diabetes for man.

653
00:27:04.010 --> 00:27:05.050
Professor Fred Watson: Space Nuts.

654
00:27:06.230 --> 00:27:07.900
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, the other day for Fred Watson.

655
00:27:07.900 --> 00:27:10.060
In one of our previous episodes we talked

656
00:27:10.060 --> 00:27:12.940
about the death of our sun and how

657
00:27:12.940 --> 00:27:15.620
it'll turn into a red giant and fry us all

658
00:27:15.700 --> 00:27:18.660
and, um, you know, free barbecue gas. But

659
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:20.100
that's about it. Um,

660
00:27:21.780 --> 00:27:24.019
and we've had questions about it as well.

661
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:27.100
Now there's some new information about the

662
00:27:27.100 --> 00:27:29.700
death spiral of our, of our only

663
00:27:29.860 --> 00:27:32.260
or our nearest star. And

664
00:27:33.780 --> 00:27:34.750
it's a bit weird.

665
00:27:35.910 --> 00:27:38.340
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, it is. Uh, there's a very nice Space.com

666
00:27:38.340 --> 00:27:40.670
piece on this written by Robert Lee. I, uh,

667
00:27:40.780 --> 00:27:43.460
love, uh, Robert's headline. Uh, our sun

668
00:27:43.540 --> 00:27:46.260
is destined to kick and spit its way

669
00:27:46.260 --> 00:27:48.420
across the solar system when it dies.

670
00:27:48.820 --> 00:27:50.900
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, great.

671
00:27:51.350 --> 00:27:53.300
Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's right.

672
00:27:54.230 --> 00:27:57.060
Uh, and the first sentence

673
00:27:57.060 --> 00:27:58.740
is. Scientists have discovered that dying

674
00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:01.660
stars don't go down without a fight. Um, Yes,

675
00:28:01.660 --> 00:28:03.060
I like that theme very much.

676
00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:04.740
Andrew Dunkley: We shouldn't be surprised by that.

677
00:28:04.900 --> 00:28:07.600
Professor Fred Watson: Not really. No. That's right. So, uh, what

678
00:28:07.600 --> 00:28:10.400
this is about is the later stages of

679
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:13.040
the sun's life. Um, it,

680
00:28:13.800 --> 00:28:16.800
uh, seems, um, inevitable from what we know

681
00:28:16.800 --> 00:28:19.320
about the way stars behave, that within the

682
00:28:19.320 --> 00:28:21.280
next 3 to 5 billion years the

683
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.400
hydrogen in the core of the sun will run out

684
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.000
the Core collapses and the outer layers of

685
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.920
the star uh basically puff outwards,

686
00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:33.000
um perhaps making the star 100

687
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.280
times its original diameter.

688
00:28:36.080 --> 00:28:38.160
So you know our sun's going to get very big,

689
00:28:38.260 --> 00:28:40.980
uh, big enough probably to swallow up the

690
00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:43.860
Earth. Um and what you get is

691
00:28:43.860 --> 00:28:46.420
the uh, you know, you get a planetary nebula

692
00:28:46.420 --> 00:28:48.260
forming. That's what we call them. That's

693
00:28:48.260 --> 00:28:51.060
that glow of circle of glowing gas or sphere

694
00:28:51.060 --> 00:28:53.540
of glowing gas with a white dwarf at the

695
00:28:53.540 --> 00:28:56.440
centre. Um, probably actually uh,

696
00:28:58.100 --> 00:29:00.220
um, the sun might even be as big as the orbit

697
00:29:00.220 --> 00:29:03.100
of Mars uh when it goes. But it's a person

698
00:29:03.260 --> 00:29:05.500
at ah, California Institute of Technology,

699
00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:09.180
Uh Jim Fuller has calculated

700
00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:11.900
that during that process

701
00:29:12.460 --> 00:29:14.980
before the star becomes a white

702
00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:16.780
dwarf, it

703
00:29:17.500 --> 00:29:20.060
basically spits. Uh,

704
00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:23.420
he says it will receive around

705
00:29:23.500 --> 00:29:26.340
10,000 little kicks over the

706
00:29:26.340 --> 00:29:28.860
course of hundreds of thousands of years. So

707
00:29:29.020 --> 00:29:31.420
they're well spaced out. But these are

708
00:29:31.660 --> 00:29:33.980
blobs of plasma that are being

709
00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:36.390
ejected from the, the

710
00:29:36.630 --> 00:29:39.630
surface of this bloated uh, version

711
00:29:39.630 --> 00:29:42.590
of the sun, the red giant. And the point

712
00:29:42.590 --> 00:29:45.590
that uh, Jim Fuller is making is

713
00:29:45.860 --> 00:29:48.630
um, it's a good one. It's basic physics.

714
00:29:49.510 --> 00:29:51.910
If you eject a blob of matter

715
00:29:52.230 --> 00:29:54.870
from the sun, the sun gets a kick in the

716
00:29:54.870 --> 00:29:57.390
opposite direction. Um, oh yeah, that makes

717
00:29:57.390 --> 00:29:59.790
sense. For every action there's an equal and

718
00:29:59.790 --> 00:30:02.550
opposite reaction. And so these,

719
00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:05.910
um, he suggests will

720
00:30:06.790 --> 00:30:09.020
push the sun around uh,

721
00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:13.110
uh, in different random directions. What

722
00:30:13.910 --> 00:30:16.810
is technically known as a random walk. Um,

723
00:30:16.870 --> 00:30:19.870
so basically Random Walk is as the

724
00:30:19.870 --> 00:30:22.690
title suggests, uh, you um,

725
00:30:23.110 --> 00:30:25.590
you know, you basically

726
00:30:25.590 --> 00:30:28.550
randomise uh movement uh in

727
00:30:28.550 --> 00:30:31.070
any given direction and you end up with this

728
00:30:31.070 --> 00:30:33.790
random walk process. And so uh, Jim

729
00:30:33.790 --> 00:30:36.770
Fuller said that for a red giant

730
00:30:37.490 --> 00:30:39.570
the random walk

731
00:30:40.290 --> 00:30:43.010
would basically uh, each of these spits

732
00:30:43.570 --> 00:30:45.970
would see uh, the thing moving

733
00:30:46.210 --> 00:30:48.290
at uh, the sun moving at around

734
00:30:48.370 --> 00:30:50.930
3,540 kilometres an hour.

735
00:30:51.410 --> 00:30:51.890
Professor Fred Watson: Whoa.

736
00:30:52.270 --> 00:30:54.290
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, now that's a lot uh in

737
00:30:54.690 --> 00:30:56.940
terrestrial terms. But um,

738
00:30:57.410 --> 00:30:59.610
when you think about stars that are

739
00:30:59.610 --> 00:31:02.610
collapsing uh into um,

740
00:31:02.790 --> 00:31:05.070
basically black holes, uh in supernova

741
00:31:05.070 --> 00:31:07.430
explosions which the sun won't do, uh because

742
00:31:07.430 --> 00:31:09.750
it's not big enough, uh, uh,

743
00:31:10.230 --> 00:31:13.230
that's still a very small velocity but it

744
00:31:13.230 --> 00:31:15.470
still produces a random walk. I think that

745
00:31:15.470 --> 00:31:18.070
velocity is actually the

746
00:31:19.060 --> 00:31:21.510
uh, overall motion that you get from this

747
00:31:21.510 --> 00:31:23.470
random walk process. You get it actually

748
00:31:23.470 --> 00:31:26.470
moving in a random direction in space.

749
00:31:27.350 --> 00:31:30.230
Andrew Dunkley: So it's going to kick and scream and go

750
00:31:30.230 --> 00:31:32.850
down like, I don't know, um,

751
00:31:33.650 --> 00:31:35.930
a heavyweight boxer. It's, it's, it's not.

752
00:31:35.930 --> 00:31:37.410
And it's going to bounce around the ring

753
00:31:37.410 --> 00:31:37.730
like.

754
00:31:38.290 --> 00:31:39.210
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, yeah.

755
00:31:39.210 --> 00:31:40.050
Andrew Dunkley: Muhammad Ali.

756
00:31:40.850 --> 00:31:43.610
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yep. Or, or even Cassius Clay.

757
00:31:43.610 --> 00:31:45.490
Andrew Dunkley: Or Cassius Clay, whichever you like.

758
00:31:45.760 --> 00:31:47.410
Professor Fred Watson: Um, same person,

759
00:31:48.130 --> 00:31:48.770
definitely.

760
00:31:49.410 --> 00:31:50.930
Andrew Dunkley: Ah, okay. Well,

761
00:31:52.450 --> 00:31:54.330
I guess the question is how did they figure

762
00:31:54.330 --> 00:31:54.770
that out?

763
00:31:55.730 --> 00:31:58.620
Professor Fred Watson: Yes. So, um, I think that's, um. You

764
00:31:58.620 --> 00:32:01.130
know, what you do is you look at the, um,

765
00:32:01.130 --> 00:32:03.580
thermo hydrodynamics of the interior of the

766
00:32:03.580 --> 00:32:06.340
sun as its atmosphere is

767
00:32:06.340 --> 00:32:09.340
changing. Uh, in fact,

768
00:32:09.340 --> 00:32:11.860
I should say the atmospheres of stars, uh,

769
00:32:11.860 --> 00:32:14.660
are, uh, an area of research that has been

770
00:32:14.660 --> 00:32:17.620
really very well studied over the last 50

771
00:32:17.620 --> 00:32:19.540
years from a theoretical viewpoint. And I've

772
00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:21.580
sort of watched that the way that evolves a

773
00:32:21.580 --> 00:32:24.550
bit. Because my, um, job at one

774
00:32:24.550 --> 00:32:26.430
stage as the project manager of the RAVE

775
00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:28.750
survey, the Radial Velocity Experiment, uh,

776
00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:31.350
which we carried out on the UK

777
00:32:31.350 --> 00:32:33.470
Schmidt, measured the spectra of half a

778
00:32:33.470 --> 00:32:35.950
million stars. And a lot of what we did with

779
00:32:35.950 --> 00:32:37.670
that, uh, was to do with the atmospheres of

780
00:32:37.670 --> 00:32:40.350
these stars. And I kind of watched

781
00:32:40.510 --> 00:32:43.150
the way the technology evolved,

782
00:32:43.670 --> 00:32:46.550
uh, and all the buzzwords that. I mean, I

783
00:32:46.550 --> 00:32:48.390
didn't understand the science because I've

784
00:32:48.390 --> 00:32:51.350
never really dwelt on the interiors of

785
00:32:51.350 --> 00:32:53.830
stars in any deep level. At least not as far

786
00:32:53.830 --> 00:32:56.330
as the hydrothermal dynamics are concerned.

787
00:32:56.790 --> 00:32:59.530
Um, uh, but the buzzwords that they were

788
00:32:59.530 --> 00:33:02.490
using changed over the years and the codes,

789
00:33:02.930 --> 00:33:05.370
um, the software that was being used to make

790
00:33:05.370 --> 00:33:08.290
these analyses, uh, and so they're well

791
00:33:08.290 --> 00:33:10.450
understood. And I guess it's a deeper

792
00:33:10.450 --> 00:33:13.450
analysis of that that gives

793
00:33:13.450 --> 00:33:15.570
rise to the idea that you get spits and

794
00:33:15.570 --> 00:33:17.930
perhaps I can suggest the direction that

795
00:33:17.930 --> 00:33:20.330
might have come in. Because normally when you

796
00:33:20.330 --> 00:33:22.530
think of the atmosphere of a star, you

797
00:33:22.530 --> 00:33:25.510
imagine it as something. The atmosphere,

798
00:33:25.630 --> 00:33:28.550
um, is basically in shells,

799
00:33:28.550 --> 00:33:30.950
different shells. You can imagine its

800
00:33:30.950 --> 00:33:33.110
structure changes, but you always

801
00:33:33.750 --> 00:33:35.910
imagine it to be completely spherically

802
00:33:35.910 --> 00:33:37.790
symmetric. That you're talking just about

803
00:33:37.790 --> 00:33:40.310
spheres. Now if you break those spheres down,

804
00:33:40.470 --> 00:33:42.470
then you're going to get different processes

805
00:33:42.470 --> 00:33:45.030
going on at one side of a sphere from you get

806
00:33:45.350 --> 00:33:47.270
at the other side. And that might be where

807
00:33:47.270 --> 00:33:49.320
these, uh, phenomena, uh,

808
00:33:49.590 --> 00:33:52.070
originate in what Jim Fuller's talking about.

809
00:33:53.030 --> 00:33:55.150
Andrew Dunkley: Fascinating. You can read all about it at

810
00:33:55.150 --> 00:33:57.690
Space. It was presented at the

811
00:33:57.690 --> 00:34:00.170
248th meeting of the American Astronomical

812
00:34:00.170 --> 00:34:02.810
Society in Pasadena, uh,

813
00:34:02.850 --> 00:34:05.330
and has been submitted to the Proceedings of

814
00:34:05.330 --> 00:34:08.050
the Astronomical Society of the Pacific.

815
00:34:08.290 --> 00:34:10.570
So, uh, yeah, it's

816
00:34:10.570 --> 00:34:13.330
uh, a fascinating discovery

817
00:34:13.330 --> 00:34:15.970
and glad we won't be around to see all that.

818
00:34:17.650 --> 00:34:18.130
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

819
00:34:18.570 --> 00:34:20.410
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, Fred Watson, we're done. Thank you so

820
00:34:20.410 --> 00:34:20.930
very much.

821
00:34:21.590 --> 00:34:23.670
Professor Fred Watson: Um, thank you, Andrew. It's been. Been jolly

822
00:34:23.670 --> 00:34:25.670
as always and, uh, hope we can do it again

823
00:34:25.670 --> 00:34:26.310
sometime.

824
00:34:26.630 --> 00:34:29.470
Andrew Dunkley: Maybe in a few minutes. Who knows? Professor

825
00:34:29.470 --> 00:34:31.060
Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at large. Um,

826
00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:33.710
and between episodes, please visit our

827
00:34:33.710 --> 00:34:36.630
website or our uh, social media platforms and

828
00:34:36.710 --> 00:34:38.510
maybe uh, you can go to the podcast group and

829
00:34:38.510 --> 00:34:40.310
have a chat with other people that listen to

830
00:34:40.310 --> 00:34:42.790
the show and um, yeah, they

831
00:34:43.270 --> 00:34:45.830
quite often talk um, about what we've talked

832
00:34:45.830 --> 00:34:48.310
about and carve it all up between themselves

833
00:34:48.310 --> 00:34:51.110
which is good. Uh, and you can cheque out all

834
00:34:51.110 --> 00:34:53.950
our other stuff on the website as well.

835
00:34:53.950 --> 00:34:56.690
Space nuts podcast.com and

836
00:34:56.690 --> 00:34:59.130
thanks to Huw in the studio who couldn't be

837
00:34:59.130 --> 00:35:01.850
with us today because he, he proved Newton's

838
00:35:01.850 --> 00:35:03.970
law. We turned up so he went the other way.

839
00:35:04.610 --> 00:35:06.570
And from me, Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your

840
00:35:06.570 --> 00:35:08.890
company. We will see you on the next episode

841
00:35:08.890 --> 00:35:10.370
of Space Nuts. Bye Bye.

842
00:35:11.490 --> 00:35:13.690
You've been listening to the Space Nuts

843
00:35:13.690 --> 00:35:16.650
podcast available at

844
00:35:16.650 --> 00:35:19.450
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845
00:35:19.450 --> 00:35:22.260
radio or your favourite podcast player. You

846
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:25.020
can also stream on demand@bytes.com.

847
00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:27.380
this has been another quality podcast

848
00:35:27.380 --> 00:35:29.500
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