From Diamond Rain to Rogue Planets: Unpacking Cosmic Curiosities

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Professor Fred Watson: Hi there.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thanks for joining us again. This is Space

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Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunkley, your host.

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It's always good to have your company. Hope

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you're well. This is a Q and A episode

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and in this particular show we're going to be

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answering audience questions. Uh, one about

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planetary atmospheres, another

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about, uh, FAA approval for things

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like reflect orbital, which we talked about

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not so long ago. And funnily enough, at

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the very same time as someone asks that

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question, a storey pops up in the news. So

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we'll have a quick look at, uh, also planets

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forming without a star. Is that possible? And

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if we've got time, we'll chuck another one

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into the mix. Uh, and we'll answer

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them all on this episode of space

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nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9. Ignition

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sequence time.

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Jonti Horner: Space nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: 5, 4, 3, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4,

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5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

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Jonti Horner: Space nuts.

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Professor Fred Watson: Astronauts report it feels good.

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Andrew Dunkley: And joining us once again while Fred Watson

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is gallivanting in places that, uh,

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he ought to be, because that's what he does,

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is Professor Jonty Horner. Professor, uh, of

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astrophysics at the University of Southern

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Queensland. Jonty, hello.

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Jonti Horner: Good afternoon. How are you going?

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Andrew Dunkley: I am well. Good to see you again.

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Jonti Horner: Oh, it's good to be back. I'm enjoying the

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warmth of my fire here and thinking the

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warmth of the fire is a little bit too much

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warmth actually. But, um, it's a hard life.

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Andrew Dunkley: I wish I had that problem.

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It is absolutely freezing in my studio

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video here. Um, we are, um, not quite at the

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end of winter, although we're getting there.

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But that doesn't mean the cold will go away

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because that's not how it works. The heat

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stays a bit longer than summer and the cold

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stays too much time past

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winter, in my opinion. I'm a summer person.

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But, um, yeah, I think it's the, it's the

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campfire analogy that describes best how the

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seasons work.

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Jonti Horner: The heat all down to thermal inertia. And

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growing up in the uk, we're very familiar

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with that. Um, yes, the ocean is a blanket

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that keeps you warm, but it takes. Takes time

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to warm up and cool down.

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Andrew Dunkley: Exactly.

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Jonti Horner: So, yeah, hottest time of the year is always

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a few weeks after midsummer. And the coolest

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time of the year is usually a few weeks after

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midwinter.

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Andrew Dunkley: Indeed. Which we're into.

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Um, well, now we're beyond that now. Should

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be starting to warm up. Should be. I, ah,

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know the hay fever's already hitting me. I

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mean, it seems to get early year in, year

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out. That's really frustrating. I'VE got my

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anti hay fever device right in front of me

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now.

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Jonti Horner: Um, it's been so dry recently as well that

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we've got a. We've got all the wattles coming

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out, which for the listeners in the northern

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hemisphere, wattles are awesome and they're

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beautiful. Yes. Um, but also we have all the

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dust because it's been the dry season and

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so, yeah, I've got. One of my students

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has had horrific problems with hair fever and

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visits to Ents and stuff like that. So, yeah,

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everybody's suffering. Get well soon.

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Andrew Dunkley: It can be debilitating.

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Jonti Horner: Yes.

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Andrew Dunkley: Shall we deal with some questions?

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Let's go to our first one. Greetings from

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Perth. Been an avid listener for years. My

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dog loves the. As I listen while

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walking him. Uh, he has a question. No, he

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doesn't. Um, I have a

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question regarding planetary atmospheres. I

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note that some planets rain diamonds and

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others rain sapphires. How do we know this

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spectral analysis tells us about atoms,

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molecules and compounds? Uh, it can

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tell us, uh, anything about, uh. It cannot

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tell us anything about crystallography. Uh,

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um, you need to prove the lattice with X

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rays for that. Uh, is it possible that

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we're dealing with crystal forms of carbon

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and a

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12.

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Jonti Horner: Aluminium oxide.

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Andrew Dunkley: Aluminium oxide, right. Um, respectively

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that have not been documented? After all, we

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are discovering new crystal forms all the

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time. That comes from Nick in Perth. That's a

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really good question. Yes, but we have heard

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of, um, such planets that rain diamonds and

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who knows what else. Um, salt, like

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planets, uh, and so

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on. Um, and this is your. This is your area,

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isn't it?

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Jonti Horner: Yeah, there's a lot of allegedly in this. I

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think there's a lot of

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beauty and, um, storytelling between what a

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paper says and what a press release says. I

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think that's maybe a polite way of putting

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it.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I know exactly where you're coming

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from. We refer to it as the popular press.

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Uh, clickbait. Getting the headline whatever

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you like.

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Jonti Horner: Well, it's one of the reasons I've actually

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really enjoyed in the past writing for the

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conversation, because as a scientist there, I

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get to tell my storey. And the editor signs

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off on it and helps you write it, rather than

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it being passed through a lens of multiple

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stages where the storey gets a little bit

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changed every time, which happens sometimes

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with press releases. You know, your

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university media office will often write a

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press release without consulting the

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scientists involved, um, because people are

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busy and they're doing them a favour. You

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know, there's nothing sinister about it. And

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then journalists will base their storeys on

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the press release, not the paper, but put

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their own spin on it, and so on and so forth.

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Now, none of that is to say that there's

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anything dishonest going on here, but I think

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what happens is that certainly storeys

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about planets around other stars that ren.

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Sapphires and diamonds, uh, are

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straying into the possible rather than the

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factual, if that makes sense. What we can

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learn about planets around other stars at the

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minute is for the largest planets

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we can start to learn something about their

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atmosphere, their composition of the

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atmosphere, the temperatures of the

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atmosphere, things like that. So one of the

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planets that has been flagged up as

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raining various Precious Stones is

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WASP121B. And I've got an article open here

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in front of me where a sentence says, a place

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where winds blow at 11,000 miles per hour,

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it rains liquid metal rubies and

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sapphires. This description worthy science

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fiction novel actually corresponds to the

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reality of an exoplanet called WASP121B.

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That's your storey. When you actually look

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into what we've learned about WASP121B, we

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don't know that there are rubies and diamonds

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in the atmosphere. What the study

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that birthed these storeys told us was that

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the atmosphere is really, really hot,

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particularly on the sunward side of the

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planet. You're getting to temperature of 2500

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to 3000 degrees centigrade. That's four

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and a half thousand to what, five and a half

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thousand Fahrenheit, Roughly ridiculously

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hot. We can see

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absorption bands in the atmosphere that tell

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you that there's water molecules, that there

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are titanium oxides, vanadium oxides,

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iron chrom, vanadium,

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titanium oxide, vanadium oxide that have been

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detected in some studies and not in others.

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More recent studies have shown things like

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magnesium, calcium, nickel, all this kind of

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stuff. You then have studies

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of these kind of planets that can tell you

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the differences in the weather between the

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day side and the night side and

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what's going on there. So I'm going to hop

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onto a different planet here because I've

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actually found a paper that talks about iron

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rain specifically.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, we heard about that one.

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Jonti Horner: I think this one sounds, sounds a bit more

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like the press releases about iron rain

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fit in well with what the science says

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because what this paper found, which was

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published, um, the article is

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called Nightside Condensation of Iron in an

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Ultra Hot Giant Exoplanet. This is another

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one of the really, really super hot

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planets. In this case another Wasp planet,

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Wasp 76 b. What

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they've found is that they can get the

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spectrum with information about the

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daytime atmosphere on m that planet and the

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nighttime atmosphere on that planet. The

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nighttime's colder than the daytime, but they

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find very strong winds blowing from the hot

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side to the cold side. You find incredible

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weather going on there. But what they've also

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done is resolved the signal of iron

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in the atmosphere there as iron

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vapour. Um,

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but they found that that signal is not

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visible on the night side and it is visible

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on the day side. It's visible in the day side

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all the way to the twilight side and then

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disappears, what they say. And again, I'll

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read this out so you can hear exactly where

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they're coming from. Um, we're going to talk

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here about the blue shifting and the red

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shifting of the signal. That's relative to

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the zero speed. So if it's blue shifted,

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that's material coming towards you. If

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it's redshifted, it's material going away

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from you and the speed is relative to the

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average speed of the planet. So the planet

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itself set at zero. That's just a context.

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And in the end of their abstract, they say

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the absorption signal attributed to neutral

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ion is Blue shifted by 11 kilometres per

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second on the trailing limb. This can be

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explained by a combination of planetary

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rotation and wind blowing from the hot day

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side. In contrast, no signal arises

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from the night side close to the morning

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terminator, showing that atomic iron is not

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absorbing starlight there. In other words,

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iron must condense during its journey across

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the night side. So you're seeing iron vapour,

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uh, uh, in the evening

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when the wind is blowing from the hot side to

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the cold side. But you're not seeing iron

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vapour carried by the winds that go from the

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cold side to the warm side in the morning. So

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the iron has to have disappeared between

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sunset and sunrise, which means it

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must have condensed and fallen out of the

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atmosphere there. So that's where they're

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getting this idea of either iron rain or

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iron hail, essentially.

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Jonti Horner: Yeah.

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Jonti Horner: And that makes sense. You've got iron in the

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day side, uh, atmosphere because it's super

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hot, but it precipitates out in the evening

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and it's gone by much morning. So that's

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where the idea of iron rain comes from

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with diamonds. We also have the

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discussion of diamond rain within the solar

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system on Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.

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This, I think, was first postulated, probably

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to explain the unusual amount of heat coming

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out from Neptune's interior, suggesting there

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have to be some physical process going on

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that is releasing latent heat and

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warming the planet up. And so the idea was

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that you've got this essentially carbon in

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the lower atmosphere getting under so such

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high pressure that it solidifies and drops

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and in that process you're releasing heat

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that warms the atmosphere. But there's a lot

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of discussion about the idea that very

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deep in Saturn, Uranus and Neptune, you've

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got a domain where you have very high

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density gases like methane and ethane.

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And, um, you also, a little bit deeper than

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that, the pressure is so high that any carbon

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would be squashed to become diamonds.

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There's a study that notes that Saturn gets

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lots of lightning. So suggesting that what

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possibly is going to happen is you have

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lightning strikes that break up methane and

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ethane, creating molecular carbon or

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atomic carbon, that then under the high

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pressure forms into molecular carbon and

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is squashed and forms little micro diamonds

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and then they rain out and precipitate out

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and they're gone. That's the idea there. Now

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we're not talking here about forming hundred

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thousand carat diamonds, you're talking about

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little nano diamonds, little mini diamonds,

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but that's where that idea comes from. Now

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this is all happening sufficiently deep

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in these planets that we can't see it. So

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it's all down to modelling based on our

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understanding and, um, based on the

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observations of the outer atmosphere from

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Earth based observatories and orbital

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observatories from the Cassini spacecraft

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going around Saturn and the data returned by

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Voyager.

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So it's one of those things where scientists

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are taking the information we know and trying

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to explain it and extrapolating to figure out

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what's going, going on in the interior of

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these planets. So to come back to the

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question, you are, I think, in many ways dead

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right. I think talking about raining

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sapphires and raining rubies and things like

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this is probably hyperbolic based

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on the information we have, but it's a way of

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illustrating just how extreme these planets

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are, uh, just how totally unlike

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anything in the solar system the conditions

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are. And at least in the case of the raining

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iron thing, that seems to be well supported

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by the paper that talked about it. Yeah, the

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raining diamond thing is quite widely

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discussed in solar system for Saturn, Uranus

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and Neptune. And, um, I think it's at that

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blurry edge where science and science fiction

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meet at the moment. So hopefully that's me

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being fair to the journalists involved and

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the scientists involved, but also trying not

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to muddy the waters any further.

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Andrew Dunkley: Never let the truth get in the way of a good

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storey.

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Jonti Horner: Absolutely.

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Andrew Dunkley: More or less. Um, yeah,

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it's a Great question though. And uh, yeah,

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I think we clearly demonstrated we can't see

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this. But, uh, certain assumptions can be

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made and when you give that information to a

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journalist they'll go, oh, I like that bit.

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There's the headline. Bam.

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I think Nick was on the money there. Thanks

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for the question, Nick.

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Uh, this is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley

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and Professor Jonty Horner.

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Professor Fred Watson: Three, two, one.

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Jonti Horner: Space Nuts.

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Andrew Dunkley: Now let's uh, go to an audio question which

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uh, comes from Sandy in Melbourne.

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Jonti Horner: Um, my question this time is just

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around satellites, um, and in particular the

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recent FCC approval of Reflect

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Orbitals test satellite. I believe.

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Um, the Reflect Orbital proposal, as

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I guess hopefully everyone knows it's. It's a

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fairly, um. Uh,

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one of concern, I suppose. Um, I'm just

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curious about the approval process, um, and

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in particular why the FCC is able to

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approve something that. That can potentially

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impact the entire globe. Um, I'm not,

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I don't mean this question in any negative

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light. I'm just curious about the approval

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process and why there isn't maybe more

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uh, international cooperation on approval of,

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you know, these sorts of proposals

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that. That has the potential to impact the

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entire globe and not just, um, the.

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The United States. Um, amazing. Thank you

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for an awesome show. Um, looking forward to

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hearing the answer.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Sandy. Lovely to hear your voice.

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Uh, hope all is well down in Melbourne, which

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is generally a colder place than where I am,

364
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but not by much. It depends on the time of

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year. But, uh, yeah, uh, this is a

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controversial topic and one

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that um, probably won't disappear in the

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near future with so many plans to put so many

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satellites in space, creating so much

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disturbance for, um, astronomers.

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Um, but, um, Reflect Orbital, now

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that was a case of somebody wanting to

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create, uh, more light on

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Earth through reflecting sunlight.

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And it got deeply

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controversial, um, because

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of certain approvals or applications that

378
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were made to the faa.

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But before we get to Sandy's question,

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there is a storey in the news at

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the moment about the uh,

382
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FAA approving, um,

383
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or trying to circumvent

384
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certain environmental laws for

385
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commercial launches and spacecraft

386
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reentries. What's that one about?

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Jonti Horner: There's all sorts of kind of car

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crash news around this. And you know, thank

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you, Sandy, for the question. It's very

390
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topical. Um, and it is

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all really reflecting the fact that the

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space industry is

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developing and evolving at a speed that is

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far greater than our ability to legislate

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about it worldwide. And in fact, the only

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real treaty.

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Andrew Dunkley: Well, the Internet did that too.

398
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Jonti Horner: Oh, absolutely. Um, the

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treaties that are in place that are very

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limited governing global use of

401
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space date back to the 1960s when you were

402
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looking at a few launchers PA from government

403
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agencies and nothing else. And they are

404
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wholly not set up for the current era of

405
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commercial space. You've then got the

406
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thing that, uh, people are trying to launch

407
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from more and more countries. Companies are,

408
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uh, designed to

409
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do what's right for the company to try and

410
00:16:05.830 --> 00:16:08.750
make money. Now, people will often say,

411
00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:11.550
well, why doesn't government X of

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country Y be stricter on the rules about

413
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launchers and start cracking down on this?

414
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But the problem is, if you go to a company

415
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that's wanting to put things in space that

416
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will service one country or will service all

417
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around the globe, whatever, and say to them,

418
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you know what we want to regulate about your

419
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launches, they can just say, well, thank you

420
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very much, we'll take our business elsewhere

421
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and launch from another country. So

422
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there's a perverse incentive, I think, there

423
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for countries to not get in the way too much.

424
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What then happens is that there

425
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is some kind of level of regulation in

426
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that the country from which something is

427
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launched is normally responsible for if it

428
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falls back to Earth. The

429
00:16:52.900 --> 00:16:55.540
vast overwhelming majority of launchers come

430
00:16:55.540 --> 00:16:58.180
from the us, um, and from US companies.

431
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And companies that want to launch in the US

432
00:17:01.620 --> 00:17:04.420
have to get permissions from US agencies.

433
00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:07.500
And it seems that there are two agencies

434
00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:09.140
involved with this. You've got the Federal

435
00:17:09.140 --> 00:17:12.020
Aviation Administration, who are the people

436
00:17:12.260 --> 00:17:15.140
who legislate around the launches themselves,

437
00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:17.300
where you can launch from, how many launches

438
00:17:17.300 --> 00:17:19.620
there can be. And then you've got the fcc,

439
00:17:19.620 --> 00:17:22.310
which is a federation, the

440
00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:25.190
federal communications body, effectively,

441
00:17:25.750 --> 00:17:28.550
and what they are legislating for is the use

442
00:17:28.630 --> 00:17:31.270
of radio frequencies for communication.

443
00:17:32.230 --> 00:17:33.870
Right. So the recent permission for

444
00:17:33.870 --> 00:17:36.870
reflectorbital was actually FCC permission

445
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to give them the permission for the satellite

446
00:17:40.110 --> 00:17:42.510
to use certain frequency bands to communicate

447
00:17:42.510 --> 00:17:43.190
with the Earth.

448
00:17:43.510 --> 00:17:43.910
Andrew Dunkley: Right.

449
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Jonti Horner: So you are permitted to launch your satellite

450
00:17:45.910 --> 00:17:48.830
and use these things to communicate. The

451
00:17:48.830 --> 00:17:51.750
new storey that you alluded to there is there

452
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is a proposal from the Federal Aviation

453
00:17:54.230 --> 00:17:56.750
Administration, who are the people that

454
00:17:56.750 --> 00:17:59.670
govern the launch in the us that is following

455
00:18:00.790 --> 00:18:02.510
the recent policy announcements from the

456
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Trump administration more, ah, widely, to try

457
00:18:04.430 --> 00:18:06.830
and get environmental regulations around

458
00:18:06.830 --> 00:18:09.590
launches repealed, to allow them to

459
00:18:09.750 --> 00:18:12.190
fast track launches, to remove

460
00:18:12.190 --> 00:18:14.750
blocks to the commercial activities and all

461
00:18:14.750 --> 00:18:17.190
the rest of it by getting rid of

462
00:18:17.750 --> 00:18:20.210
regulation around endangered species or

463
00:18:20.210 --> 00:18:23.210
native title or things like this. It's quite

464
00:18:23.210 --> 00:18:25.330
concerning when you read about it. The FAA

465
00:18:25.330 --> 00:18:27.650
proposal, this is me reading a quote,

466
00:18:27.890 --> 00:18:30.730
proposes to waive requirements of laws of the

467
00:18:30.730 --> 00:18:33.450
US for a licence or permit after

468
00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:35.209
consultation with the head of the appropriate

469
00:18:35.209 --> 00:18:37.650
agency when the requirement is not

470
00:18:37.650 --> 00:18:39.410
necessary to protect the public health,

471
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safety of property and uh, national security

472
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and foreign interests of the United States.

473
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Nothing in there about the interests or

474
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health and safety of people anywhere other

475
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than the United States. Of course these

476
00:18:50.850 --> 00:18:53.330
launches pass over other inhabited countries

477
00:18:53.330 --> 00:18:55.330
as they're getting to altitude. Uh, there's

478
00:18:55.330 --> 00:18:56.850
nothing in there about environmental

479
00:18:56.850 --> 00:18:59.770
protections they want to get rid of And

480
00:18:59.770 --> 00:19:02.690
I quote 13 federal laws to stop them

481
00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:04.890
applying to certain commercial space licences

482
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and permits, um, with examples including the

483
00:19:07.690 --> 00:19:09.330
National Environmental Policy act, the

484
00:19:09.330 --> 00:19:11.250
Endangered Species act, the Clean Water act,

485
00:19:11.250 --> 00:19:13.650
the Clean Air act and the National Historical

486
00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:16.550
Preservation Act. So this is

487
00:19:16.550 --> 00:19:18.910
a little bit concerning. People are getting

488
00:19:19.550 --> 00:19:21.910
a little bit worried um,

489
00:19:22.350 --> 00:19:25.310
about things like attempts to build

490
00:19:25.310 --> 00:19:28.230
launch environments in habitats for

491
00:19:28.230 --> 00:19:30.150
endangered species, all sorts of stuff like

492
00:19:30.150 --> 00:19:32.790
this. So that's going on. But the FAA are the

493
00:19:32.790 --> 00:19:35.630
people who approve the launches, the FCC

494
00:19:36.030 --> 00:19:37.430
who are the ones that have just approved

495
00:19:37.430 --> 00:19:40.030
Reflectorbital approve the communications

496
00:19:40.030 --> 00:19:42.030
side of it. And they have been

497
00:19:43.390 --> 00:19:45.630
very, very clear in their thinking that they

498
00:19:45.630 --> 00:19:48.510
don't have any right to pass any

499
00:19:48.510 --> 00:19:50.270
opinion on the activities. They're just

500
00:19:50.270 --> 00:19:52.190
approving the communication channels.

501
00:19:53.150 --> 00:19:54.990
So again quoting about the

502
00:19:55.550 --> 00:19:57.950
Earundel 1 satellite reflect orbital

503
00:19:57.950 --> 00:20:00.830
satellite, um, loads of comments, loads of

504
00:20:00.830 --> 00:20:03.190
international concern. People raised it with

505
00:20:03.190 --> 00:20:06.070
the FCC to say come on really mirrors in

506
00:20:06.070 --> 00:20:08.350
space. This is really dangerous, please don't

507
00:20:08.350 --> 00:20:11.150
approve this. And the FCC has

508
00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:13.830
said we find that concerns about Earendel's

509
00:20:13.830 --> 00:20:15.710
impacts on optical astronomy fall outside our

510
00:20:15.710 --> 00:20:18.390
review and authorization of the space station

511
00:20:18.550 --> 00:20:21.110
and are not a basis for denial or additional

512
00:20:21.110 --> 00:20:24.110
conditions on the operations. Um, and

513
00:20:24.110 --> 00:20:25.990
they went on further to say we find that the

514
00:20:25.990 --> 00:20:28.030
operation of a solar reflector attached to a

515
00:20:28.030 --> 00:20:30.230
satellite is too attenuated from the

516
00:20:30.230 --> 00:20:31.950
commission's action of approving use of

517
00:20:31.950 --> 00:20:34.510
spectrum and thus beyond our authority. So

518
00:20:34.510 --> 00:20:37.050
they're just passing the book. Yeah. The

519
00:20:37.050 --> 00:20:39.170
thing is though, uh, you can see exactly the

520
00:20:39.170 --> 00:20:41.330
same buck pass being done by the FAA

521
00:20:42.050 --> 00:20:44.770
when it comes to launches thing the FAA can

522
00:20:44.770 --> 00:20:46.850
say we have no ability to rule on what the

523
00:20:46.850 --> 00:20:48.370
satellite's going to do when it's up there.

524
00:20:48.770 --> 00:20:50.850
Our rule is solely to regulate um, on whether

525
00:20:50.850 --> 00:20:53.610
the launch can happen in a safe way. So it

526
00:20:53.610 --> 00:20:55.330
really does feed into this Wild west

527
00:20:55.330 --> 00:20:58.170
narrative that the commercial

528
00:20:58.170 --> 00:21:00.050
use has really outstripped regulation.

529
00:21:01.090 --> 00:21:02.930
It's arguable whether people are actually

530
00:21:02.930 --> 00:21:04.890
rushing to keep up or not or whether there

531
00:21:04.890 --> 00:21:07.240
are uh, less efforts being made to keep up

532
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.280
than you would like. But certainly we're a

533
00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:11.200
long, long way from having any kind of

534
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:14.800
oversight globally on the use of space

535
00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:17.680
or any way of managing it globally. There's a

536
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:20.400
lot of discussions. I've got a PhD student

537
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.840
studying with us at UNESQ remotely who talks

538
00:21:22.840 --> 00:21:25.240
a lot about satellites and the use of the

539
00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:27.400
night sky from the cultural lens and the

540
00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:29.600
impact on traditional owners of the land for

541
00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:31.560
whom the night sky is incredibly culturally

542
00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:33.760
significant, who don't have a voice.

543
00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:36.120
You know, we've spoken about that before as

544
00:21:36.120 --> 00:21:38.180
well with the IDE sending dead people to the

545
00:21:38.180 --> 00:21:40.820
moon, which is considered very sacrilegious

546
00:21:40.820 --> 00:21:42.540
to a number of native groups around the

547
00:21:42.780 --> 00:21:45.300
planet. But who cares? The company can do

548
00:21:45.300 --> 00:21:47.260
what they want. Seems to be the impression.

549
00:21:47.420 --> 00:21:48.900
And um, the company involved were very

550
00:21:48.900 --> 00:21:50.420
caustic in their comments that uh,

551
00:21:51.100 --> 00:21:52.780
effectively we don't care, we're not going to

552
00:21:52.780 --> 00:21:54.300
listen. They should grow up.

553
00:21:54.860 --> 00:21:57.580
And it's fairly horrific in a lot of ways,

554
00:21:57.580 --> 00:22:00.500
this stuff going on. But it is fast

555
00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:02.140
developing industry with no regulation

556
00:22:03.030 --> 00:22:03.990
developed around it.

557
00:22:04.470 --> 00:22:06.870
Andrew Dunkley: And that's because of the speed of technology

558
00:22:07.030 --> 00:22:09.830
enabling these things long before the

559
00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:13.310
legislation makers can do anything about

560
00:22:13.310 --> 00:22:15.710
it. And we see that a lot. I remember when

561
00:22:15.710 --> 00:22:18.549
email first started popping up, you could get

562
00:22:18.549 --> 00:22:21.270
away with practically murder on email

563
00:22:21.350 --> 00:22:23.830
because it wasn't a legal document.

564
00:22:24.550 --> 00:22:27.390
That law has been changed. But there was a

565
00:22:27.390 --> 00:22:30.070
time where it was such a grey area that email

566
00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:33.000
didn't count, uh, in terms of

567
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:35.880
defamation or slander or any of

568
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.400
those, uh, legal areas

569
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.110
that could uh, get you into trouble. Um,

570
00:22:41.120 --> 00:22:43.840
that's now changed obviously and email

571
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.840
can be used against you in a court of law,

572
00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:48.720
etc. Etc. Now we've got this situation

573
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.840
where the um, private enterprise

574
00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:54.120
is getting so involved in space and wanting

575
00:22:54.120 --> 00:22:56.740
to do all these extraordinary and some form

576
00:22:56.890 --> 00:22:59.210
what, in some cases ludicrous things

577
00:23:00.250 --> 00:23:02.490
and the law hasn't caught up to it yet.

578
00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:05.610
And then you've got bodies that are saying,

579
00:23:05.610 --> 00:23:07.850
well look, you know, we only deal with this

580
00:23:07.850 --> 00:23:10.250
little bit here. We, you know, we got no say

581
00:23:10.250 --> 00:23:12.450
over the rest of it. So that's okay. We, we

582
00:23:12.450 --> 00:23:14.690
can let them do that. Someone else will have

583
00:23:14.690 --> 00:23:16.970
to decide what happens to the rest of it.

584
00:23:17.530 --> 00:23:20.210
Jonti Horner: Even though those bodies are uh, ignoring

585
00:23:20.210 --> 00:23:21.650
their own rules. Some of the times, you know,

586
00:23:21.650 --> 00:23:23.730
there have been things permitted to use bands

587
00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:25.250
of the spectrum that have been meant to be

588
00:23:25.250 --> 00:23:28.210
kept safe and pristine for radio ash

589
00:23:28.210 --> 00:23:29.950
running. Sure, Fred Watson has had views on

590
00:23:29.950 --> 00:23:32.590
that in the past. Should say. Incidentally,

591
00:23:32.590 --> 00:23:35.030
we've had a hello in the public chat from

592
00:23:35.030 --> 00:23:37.550
Moose again. So, hi, Moose again or Moose

593
00:23:37.550 --> 00:23:40.350
again. Um, so I saw the

594
00:23:40.350 --> 00:23:41.790
chat thing flash up. It's like, what's going

595
00:23:41.790 --> 00:23:43.110
on? We have somebody listening.

596
00:23:43.110 --> 00:23:45.870
Andrew Dunkley: So hello I can actually see the numbers. Yes,

597
00:23:45.870 --> 00:23:47.510
we do have quite a few people listening at

598
00:23:47.510 --> 00:23:47.790
the moment.

599
00:23:47.790 --> 00:23:48.230
Jonti Horner: Fabulous.

600
00:23:48.310 --> 00:23:48.950
Andrew Dunkley: That's nice.

601
00:23:49.350 --> 00:23:51.270
Jonti Horner: I appreciate you keeping us company today,

602
00:23:51.350 --> 00:23:53.910
but, yeah, it's a very bizarre situation and

603
00:23:53.910 --> 00:23:56.510
it's hard to see how it'll change at the

604
00:23:56.510 --> 00:23:59.030
minute. Especially given that the biggest

605
00:23:59.030 --> 00:24:01.930
players don't seem to be awfully

606
00:24:01.930 --> 00:24:04.090
interested in global rules and regulations.

607
00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:06.210
Maybe that's a way of putting it. And

608
00:24:07.010 --> 00:24:09.530
equally with the rate it's gone, you can

609
00:24:09.530 --> 00:24:11.610
imagine why they didn't legislate about this

610
00:24:11.610 --> 00:24:14.370
in the 1960s. Because can you imagine if

611
00:24:15.010 --> 00:24:17.700
the global bodies in 1967,

612
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:19.880
1969 when the space Treaty was done, um,

613
00:24:20.610 --> 00:24:23.130
had put in rules about the commercial use of

614
00:24:23.130 --> 00:24:25.850
mega constellations? Nobody would have even

615
00:24:25.850 --> 00:24:27.930
thought about it. It and anybody trying to be

616
00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:29.930
that forward thinking would have been shut

617
00:24:29.930 --> 00:24:31.010
down. It's never going to happen.

618
00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:34.210
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And yet it's happening as we speak.

619
00:24:34.790 --> 00:24:36.810
Um, yeah, we're talking about two kettles of

620
00:24:36.810 --> 00:24:39.530
fish, um, but they kind of

621
00:24:39.530 --> 00:24:42.250
interrelate, uh, in regard to what's

622
00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:45.210
going on in low Earth orbit

623
00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:47.730
and, uh, what the future will hold, I do not

624
00:24:47.730 --> 00:24:49.610
know. But when you've got federal government

625
00:24:49.610 --> 00:24:52.570
organisations that are kind of wanting

626
00:24:52.570 --> 00:24:55.290
to manoeuvre

627
00:24:55.290 --> 00:24:58.290
around certain legislation and certain

628
00:24:59.090 --> 00:25:01.050
acts of parliament, depending on which

629
00:25:01.050 --> 00:25:03.970
country you're in, um, that's a bit of

630
00:25:03.970 --> 00:25:06.970
a worry. Yes, thanks for

631
00:25:06.970 --> 00:25:09.850
the question, Sandy. Um, it's a

632
00:25:09.850 --> 00:25:12.130
pretty deep and meaningful one and, uh, very

633
00:25:12.130 --> 00:25:14.770
controversial and certainly not going to go

634
00:25:14.770 --> 00:25:17.390
away in the near future. Um,

635
00:25:17.810 --> 00:25:19.770
but hopefully common sense will prevail.

636
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.320
Good question. This is Space Nuts, a Q and A

637
00:25:23.320 --> 00:25:25.920
edition with Andrew Dunkley and Jonty Horner.

638
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:30.520
Professor Fred Watson: Okay, Houston, we've had a problem here. This

639
00:25:30.520 --> 00:25:31.760
is Houston. Say again, please.

640
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:33.240
Andrew Dunkley: Houston, we've had a problem.

641
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:35.640
Professor Fred Watson: We've had a main B plus. Roger, main B

642
00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.840
interval. Okay, standby 13. We're looking at

643
00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:38.040
it.

644
00:25:38.040 --> 00:25:40.480
Andrew Dunkley: Spacebuds, our final question

645
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:43.440
is a very quick and easy one.

646
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:46.130
Uh, except I can't find it. Here it is. Uh,

647
00:25:46.800 --> 00:25:49.440
this comes from Rennie, who's a regular

648
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:51.600
contributor at Sunny West Hills in Californ

649
00:25:51.820 --> 00:25:54.700
here. Can planets form without

650
00:25:54.700 --> 00:25:57.700
a sun? Uh, let's say because dark

651
00:25:57.700 --> 00:26:00.460
matter would be the gravity. Rennie is

652
00:26:00.460 --> 00:26:03.360
asking. Uh, well, planets are your thing. Uh,

653
00:26:03.580 --> 00:26:06.140
can planets form without a sun? Now, we know

654
00:26:06.140 --> 00:26:08.780
there are rogue planets, but we're going to

655
00:26:08.780 --> 00:26:10.940
assume that they were once part of a system

656
00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:13.660
that probably had a star at its centre

657
00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:16.860
and it got booted out for not paying the rent

658
00:26:16.860 --> 00:26:19.300
or something. But, um, yeah, that's not what

659
00:26:19.300 --> 00:26:20.610
we're talking about. About we're talking

660
00:26:20.610 --> 00:26:23.490
about planets forming without a star or a

661
00:26:23.490 --> 00:26:24.850
sun, whatever you want to call it.

662
00:26:24.850 --> 00:26:26.770
Jonti Horner: Yeah. And there's all sorts of different

663
00:26:26.770 --> 00:26:29.690
angles to this. Now, dark matter

664
00:26:30.170 --> 00:26:33.130
is not really well understood.

665
00:26:33.130 --> 00:26:35.290
I'm not a cosmologist, but there's a number

666
00:26:35.290 --> 00:26:36.770
of different things that have been proposed

667
00:26:36.770 --> 00:26:38.690
to be dark matter. And I mean fundamentally

668
00:26:38.690 --> 00:26:41.650
at the simplest level, anything that has

669
00:26:41.650 --> 00:26:44.370
mass that cannot be seen can be

670
00:26:44.370 --> 00:26:46.330
considered dark matter. So I guess some

671
00:26:46.330 --> 00:26:48.450
degree you could consider black holes dark

672
00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:50.170
matter. When they're not feeding on

673
00:26:50.170 --> 00:26:52.110
something. We can see the evidence that the

674
00:26:52.110 --> 00:26:54.950
mass is there, but we can't see the material

675
00:26:54.950 --> 00:26:57.510
itself. There was a storey

676
00:26:57.750 --> 00:26:59.870
a few weeks ago and I'm remembering this off

677
00:26:59.870 --> 00:27:01.630
the top of my head. Don't have it up in front

678
00:27:01.630 --> 00:27:03.510
of me. Where people have done research

679
00:27:03.750 --> 00:27:05.990
looking at uh, the incredible

680
00:27:05.990 --> 00:27:08.750
accumulations of material you can get in the

681
00:27:08.750 --> 00:27:11.260
interior of very massive galaxies. Material m

682
00:27:11.630 --> 00:27:13.430
that's been corralled by supermassive black

683
00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:16.230
holes. Suggesting that you can get

684
00:27:16.230 --> 00:27:18.310
at certain distances from supermassive black

685
00:27:18.310 --> 00:27:21.030
holes, enough density of material that you

686
00:27:21.030 --> 00:27:22.990
could get spontaneous planet formation

687
00:27:22.990 --> 00:27:25.450
happening, forming trillions

688
00:27:25.450 --> 00:27:27.730
quadrillions of planet sized objects

689
00:27:28.210 --> 00:27:31.090
in the kind of inner reaches of a galaxy.

690
00:27:31.650 --> 00:27:33.330
Not forming stars, forming loads of planets.

691
00:27:33.330 --> 00:27:35.970
So that's one way this could happen. You also

692
00:27:36.210 --> 00:27:38.970
have ideas of things like planetary

693
00:27:38.970 --> 00:27:41.650
formation around objects like white dwarfs

694
00:27:41.730 --> 00:27:44.570
and normal sized black holes and um, neutron

695
00:27:44.570 --> 00:27:47.330
stars. We found planets around pulsars in the

696
00:27:47.330 --> 00:27:50.290
past and planets around pulsars pose a real

697
00:27:50.290 --> 00:27:52.910
problem because you'd expect them to that a

698
00:27:52.910 --> 00:27:55.590
pulsar being the result of a supernova

699
00:27:55.590 --> 00:27:58.230
explosion. The supernova would have destroyed

700
00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:00.750
any planets that were in orbit around the

701
00:28:00.750 --> 00:28:03.510
star or they'd have escaped. Bit of both.

702
00:28:03.990 --> 00:28:05.990
So how can you have planets around a pulsar?

703
00:28:06.150 --> 00:28:07.950
And uh, one of the suggestions is you get a

704
00:28:07.950 --> 00:28:10.870
second generation of planet formation

705
00:28:10.870 --> 00:28:12.630
where some of the material from the death of

706
00:28:12.630 --> 00:28:15.550
the star falls back to form a disc around the

707
00:28:15.550 --> 00:28:17.750
star, the stellar corpse.

708
00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:21.000
And you get a generation of planet formation

709
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.760
that forms objects like the size of the moon

710
00:28:22.760 --> 00:28:25.560
and a bit bigger, a bit smaller. So you can

711
00:28:25.560 --> 00:28:27.840
get that. You also have

712
00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:30.880
the possibility of forming objects the size

713
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.400
and mass of planets in star forming regions

714
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:36.400
as almost like mega failed stars. And this

715
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.000
goes back to something we discussed on the

716
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:40.440
previous episode about when is a star not a

717
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:43.400
star. You get objects that are not massive

718
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:45.440
enough to be a star get called brown dwarfs.

719
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:47.760
That's why you've got something more than 13

720
00:28:47.760 --> 00:28:49.680
times the mass of Jupiter, less than 80 times

721
00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:52.500
mass of Jupiter. And we know you can form

722
00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:55.420
brown Dwarfs in star forming regions where

723
00:28:55.420 --> 00:28:57.100
you form something that just doesn't get

724
00:28:57.100 --> 00:29:00.020
massive enough to begin fusion. If

725
00:29:00.020 --> 00:29:01.460
you're forming things that size, you will

726
00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:03.420
also form things that are smaller than that.

727
00:29:03.580 --> 00:29:06.220
And so you will form free floating things of

728
00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:08.740
planetary mass in star forming

729
00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:11.740
regions. So in that way you could get

730
00:29:11.820 --> 00:29:14.620
planets forming without suns in that way.

731
00:29:15.260 --> 00:29:16.940
In terms of dark matter

732
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:20.880
being the origin of the gravity, this is

733
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:23.440
where you could get a really awesome

734
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:24.880
collaborative project going between

735
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.600
cosmologists and um, exoplanet people,

736
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.920
when neither of us has all of the knowledge

737
00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:32.440
to absolutely definitively answer that. So

738
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:35.440
I'm going to give the caveat that what I say

739
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.040
from now on is based more on judgement than

740
00:29:38.040 --> 00:29:40.400
knowledge. In a way, my

741
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.320
memory is that uh, most

742
00:29:43.320 --> 00:29:46.320
discussions of dark matter these

743
00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:48.360
days seem to talk about it being very

744
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.920
distributed, very finely spread.

745
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:53.880
So it's not like you get isolated clumps,

746
00:29:54.120 --> 00:29:56.560
you don't get a planet sized clump of dark

747
00:29:56.560 --> 00:29:59.040
matter, dark matter planet, you have a lot of

748
00:29:59.040 --> 00:30:01.840
material spread very wide. And that means you

749
00:30:01.840 --> 00:30:04.200
wouldn't have like a nucleation site around

750
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.520
which material could gather to form a planet.

751
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:09.640
In that paradigm of the dark matter all being

752
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:11.680
very thinly smeared out and very spread out

753
00:30:11.910 --> 00:30:14.870
out. If you had though, in a star

754
00:30:14.870 --> 00:30:17.710
forming region, a clump of dark matter that

755
00:30:17.710 --> 00:30:20.350
was a mass of the sun that could form a disc

756
00:30:20.350 --> 00:30:22.670
around it where planets could form. So if you

757
00:30:22.670 --> 00:30:24.870
could get that clump of matter the size of

758
00:30:24.870 --> 00:30:27.110
the sun, the mass of the sun, then things

759
00:30:27.110 --> 00:30:29.870
would happen around it just the same as if it

760
00:30:29.870 --> 00:30:32.750
was any kind of visible matter,

761
00:30:32.750 --> 00:30:35.270
baryonic matter, because

762
00:30:35.590 --> 00:30:37.270
all that you're looking at there is gravity

763
00:30:37.270 --> 00:30:40.210
doing what gravity does. The thing is,

764
00:30:40.370 --> 00:30:42.930
my understanding, and my understanding here

765
00:30:42.930 --> 00:30:45.410
could very well be flawed, is that most

766
00:30:45.410 --> 00:30:47.330
cosmologists these days talk about the dark

767
00:30:47.330 --> 00:30:49.050
matter being very spread out, which would

768
00:30:49.050 --> 00:30:51.250
kind of preclude that kind of setup

769
00:30:51.250 --> 00:30:54.210
happening. If, however, you go back to

770
00:30:54.210 --> 00:30:56.450
the days where people talked about the

771
00:30:57.090 --> 00:30:59.290
potential origin of dark matter being what

772
00:30:59.290 --> 00:31:01.850
were known as machos, massive compact

773
00:31:01.850 --> 00:31:04.810
halo objects, uh, that version of dark

774
00:31:04.810 --> 00:31:07.330
matter was the idea that you had massive

775
00:31:07.330 --> 00:31:09.370
objects that you could not see, whether

776
00:31:09.370 --> 00:31:12.030
that's brown dwarfs, whether

777
00:31:12.030 --> 00:31:14.230
it's black holes, whether it's things like

778
00:31:14.230 --> 00:31:16.790
that, things that are large localised

779
00:31:16.790 --> 00:31:19.790
agglomerations of matter that

780
00:31:19.870 --> 00:31:22.550
are not visible for whatever reason. Those

781
00:31:22.550 --> 00:31:25.190
kind of things could be seeds, they exert

782
00:31:25.190 --> 00:31:27.710
gravity. You can imagine if one of those was

783
00:31:27.710 --> 00:31:30.270
in a star forming region, it could get a disc

784
00:31:30.270 --> 00:31:31.910
of material around it. Now it would also

785
00:31:31.910 --> 00:31:34.430
accrete itself, baryonic matter,

786
00:31:34.830 --> 00:31:36.830
which Means you could potentially get star

787
00:31:37.580 --> 00:31:39.980
that are formed with a core of dark matter in

788
00:31:39.980 --> 00:31:42.940
that type scenario. But we are getting beyond

789
00:31:43.260 --> 00:31:45.500
my area of expertise there. So we are kind of

790
00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:47.500
verging on the speculative and the science

791
00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:49.540
fiction rather than the science facts. I do

792
00:31:49.540 --> 00:31:51.820
want to caution that. Take what I've just

793
00:31:51.820 --> 00:31:53.580
said with a pinch of salt.

794
00:31:54.780 --> 00:31:57.740
Andrew Dunkley: No, fair enough. But, um, the

795
00:31:57.740 --> 00:32:00.580
bottom line is the answer to Rennie's

796
00:32:00.580 --> 00:32:02.220
question is probably yes,

797
00:32:03.110 --> 00:32:05.670
Jonti Horner: yes, for a given version of what dark matter

798
00:32:05.670 --> 00:32:07.830
is. You know, like I said, we have found

799
00:32:08.550 --> 00:32:10.730
the pulsar planets. Um,

800
00:32:11.590 --> 00:32:13.430
like I say, you can look up the paper from a

801
00:32:13.430 --> 00:32:15.070
few weeks ago or the news articles from a few

802
00:32:15.070 --> 00:32:17.670
weeks ago that were talking about planetary

803
00:32:17.670 --> 00:32:20.070
formation near supermassive black holes.

804
00:32:21.270 --> 00:32:23.470
You could very much argue that supermassive

805
00:32:23.470 --> 00:32:25.070
black holes, when they don't have active

806
00:32:25.070 --> 00:32:27.830
material falling into them, are invisible but

807
00:32:27.830 --> 00:32:29.790
for their gravity. So therefore are dark

808
00:32:29.790 --> 00:32:31.350
matter by definition because they're matter

809
00:32:31.350 --> 00:32:34.290
that is dark. Um, so, yeah, there

810
00:32:34.290 --> 00:32:35.730
are ways to answer the question in the

811
00:32:35.730 --> 00:32:38.170
affirmative, but I think if you

812
00:32:38.570 --> 00:32:40.810
went down to the kind of very thinly smeared

813
00:32:40.810 --> 00:32:43.170
dark matter, then that side of things,

814
00:32:43.170 --> 00:32:43.930
probably not.

815
00:32:44.650 --> 00:32:47.090
Andrew Dunkley: Okay, now, fair point. Uh, and as you say, we

816
00:32:47.090 --> 00:32:49.930
don't know a lot about dark matter. And it's.

817
00:32:49.930 --> 00:32:52.890
Yeah, we're at the very dawn of that, um, you

818
00:32:52.890 --> 00:32:55.050
know, trying to figure it out. Uh, someone

819
00:32:55.050 --> 00:32:57.770
will crack it sooner or later. But, uh, at

820
00:32:57.770 --> 00:32:59.490
this stage, it's all a bit of a head

821
00:32:59.490 --> 00:33:02.010
scratcher. And let's not get into dark energy

822
00:33:02.010 --> 00:33:04.200
because that's, you know, that

823
00:33:04.760 --> 00:33:07.240
if dark matter is a head scratcher, dark

824
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:10.240
energy is, um, boring out your brain with a

825
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:13.080
pneumatic drill type of scenario.

826
00:33:13.080 --> 00:33:15.120
Jonti Horner: Oh, it is. I mean, we're very fortunate that

827
00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:16.760
we do have here in Australia some of the

828
00:33:16.760 --> 00:33:18.680
world's foremost experts in these kind of

829
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:21.320
things. It's just I'm not one of them. I

830
00:33:21.320 --> 00:33:23.760
would encourage, you know, having a special

831
00:33:23.760 --> 00:33:25.640
at some point with the incredible Tamara

832
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:27.440
Davis. Professor Tamara Davis from the

833
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:29.920
University of Queensland. Cause she can speak

834
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:31.760
about dark energy and dark matter in a way

835
00:33:31.760 --> 00:33:34.110
that makes you think, you understand. There

836
00:33:34.110 --> 00:33:35.750
is no greater praise of a science

837
00:33:35.750 --> 00:33:36.870
communicator than that.

838
00:33:37.910 --> 00:33:40.150
Andrew Dunkley: That would be fascinating. Yeah, that's a

839
00:33:40.150 --> 00:33:40.790
great idea.

840
00:33:41.370 --> 00:33:42.990
Uh, Rennie, thanks for your question in

841
00:33:42.990 --> 00:33:44.670
regards to your grandchildren. Rennie

842
00:33:44.670 --> 00:33:47.490
messaged us not so long ago to say that, uh,

843
00:33:47.490 --> 00:33:50.470
one of his grandchildren, um, uh, through.

844
00:33:50.550 --> 00:33:53.190
Through Space nuts, has now been inspired to

845
00:33:53.190 --> 00:33:56.150
include astronomy into part of his college

846
00:33:56.150 --> 00:33:58.550
studies. So, um, we were really thrilled to

847
00:33:58.550 --> 00:34:00.590
hear that. So thanks for the question,

848
00:34:00.590 --> 00:34:03.030
Rennie. And, uh, I think that's just about

849
00:34:03.030 --> 00:34:06.010
it. Yes, I think, uh, call

850
00:34:06.010 --> 00:34:08.930
it quits here. But we will remind you that,

851
00:34:08.930 --> 00:34:11.540
uh, you can send in your questions via, ah,

852
00:34:11.540 --> 00:34:13.810
our website, spacenutspodcast.com

853
00:34:13.810 --> 00:34:16.730
spacenuts IO either of

854
00:34:16.730 --> 00:34:19.650
those platforms work? And, uh, click on

855
00:34:19.650 --> 00:34:22.130
the Ask me anything um button at the top.

856
00:34:22.130 --> 00:34:24.730
It's labelled ama and you can send us text

857
00:34:24.730 --> 00:34:27.330
and audio questions there. Don't forget to

858
00:34:27.330 --> 00:34:29.490
tell us who you are and where you're from.

859
00:34:30.050 --> 00:34:31.890
And have a look around on our website while

860
00:34:31.890 --> 00:34:33.290
you're there. And I'll remind you too,

861
00:34:33.290 --> 00:34:35.530
wherever you listen to us or watch us, please

862
00:34:35.530 --> 00:34:38.430
leave reviews. Um, apparently they

863
00:34:38.430 --> 00:34:40.590
help. I don't know how they help. I don't

864
00:34:40.590 --> 00:34:43.270
think they feed the hungry, but they might. I

865
00:34:43.270 --> 00:34:46.270
don't know. Uh, and um, Jonty,

866
00:34:46.270 --> 00:34:49.050
thanks so much. Uh, we will, uh,

867
00:34:49.390 --> 00:34:51.070
look forward to the pleasure of your company

868
00:34:51.070 --> 00:34:52.910
again in the next episode.

869
00:34:52.990 --> 00:34:54.470
Jonti Horner: Yeah, looking forward to it. Thank you for

870
00:34:54.470 --> 00:34:56.150
having me, Professor Jonty

871
00:34:56.150 --> 00:34:58.790
Andrew Dunkley: Horner, um, Professor of Astrophysics at the

872
00:34:58.790 --> 00:35:01.150
University of Southern Queensland. And, uh,

873
00:35:01.230 --> 00:35:04.050
thanks to Huw in the studio. Um,

874
00:35:04.050 --> 00:35:06.410
Huw couldn't be with us today, surprisingly.

875
00:35:06.410 --> 00:35:09.290
Uh, apparently he, uh, applied to the FCC to

876
00:35:09.290 --> 00:35:11.410
get approval to log into the show today and

877
00:35:11.410 --> 00:35:14.330
they said no. And from me, Andrew Dunkley,

878
00:35:14.730 --> 00:35:16.330
thanks for your company. We'll see you on the

879
00:35:16.330 --> 00:35:18.730
next episode of Space Nuts. Bye. Bye.

880
00:35:20.010 --> 00:35:22.210
You've been listening to the Space Nuts

881
00:35:22.210 --> 00:35:25.210
Jonti Horner: podcast, available at

882
00:35:25.210 --> 00:35:27.210
Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

883
00:35:27.370 --> 00:35:30.130
iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast

884
00:35:30.130 --> 00:35:32.450
player. You can also stream on demand at

885
00:35:32.450 --> 00:35:33.530
bytes. Com.

886
00:35:33.850 --> 00:35:35.930
Andrew Dunkley: This has been another quality podcast

887
00:35:35.930 --> 00:35:37.530
production from Bytes.

888
00:35:37.610 --> 00:35:38.010
Professor Fred Watson: Com.